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Heavy favorites emerge for Yankees roster

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 23, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

A few key events and comments from the past few days have made guessing the Yankees roster fairly simple. The team could make a surprise decision in the next two weeks, but there seems to at least be an educated consensus on the most likely 25 players to break camp with the big club.

Yankees Astros Spring Baseball

• Yesterday, Joe Girardi said: “We have five guys (competing to be the fifth starter). We have, in a sense, one spot in the rotation and three in the bullpen.” Today, it was reported that Chad Gaudin was placed on waivers, cutting that list to four players for four spots.

• Bench candidate Jamie Hoffmann has been sent back to the Dodgers. Girardi responded by saying Marcus Thames has a “proven track record” and “the most experience in that situation.”

• Girardi also gave Ramiro Pena the “most experience” tag as the utility infielder. He’s the only utility candidate still in camp with considerable shortstop experience.

• Randy Winn and Chan Ho Park were signed to guaranteed major league deals, assuring them spots on the team.

• Last week Girardi said: “I came to camp expecting (Dave Robertson) to be one of our guys.”

• When Girardi started his A lineup last week, it included Brett Gardner as the No. 9 hitter.

Favorites for the Opening Day roster

Alfredo Aceves
A.J. Burnett
Joba Chamberlain
Phil Hughes
Damaso Marte
Sergio Mitre
Chan Ho Park
Andy Pettitte
Mariano Rivera
Dave Robertson
CC Sabathia
Javier Vazquez

Francisco Cervelli
Jorge Posada

Robinson Cano
Derek Jeter
Nick Johnson
Ramiro Pena
Alex Rodriguez
Mark Teixeira

Brett Gardner
Curtis Granderson
Nick Swisher
Marcus Thames
Randy Winn

Comments

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312 Responses to “Heavy favorites emerge for Yankees roster”

  1. cano he didnt March 23rd, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    wow just look at that roster…

  2. AeroFANatic March 23rd, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Spot on. Joba will be the #5. They didn’t go thru the rules to just abandon them so quick.

  3. Rich in NJ March 23rd, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    The most interesting question to this point, apart from the 5th starter issue, is how long it will take Granderson to adjust to playing in NY.

  4. Erin March 23rd, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    That roster looks pretty good :)

  5. vinny-b March 23rd, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    “I hate the idea that the Yankees made a move just because it was cheaper to keep one guy over the other……”
    —————————————————

    nevermind that the ‘other guy’ is better

    either way, at this point the horse is beyond recognition

  6. five iron from fenway March 23rd, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Chad – with the cop out to not giving your opinion on the 5th starter.
    In all seriousness, what can be gleaned from the spring outings in the competition between Joba and Phil for 5th starter. Similarly, who plays left and who plays center?
    Those are the remaining questions.

  7. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 23rd, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    LOL Joe and Evan…funny

    How about F-Mart for Gaudin..you laughing now?

  8. I like Inge March 23rd, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Thats a good squad 1 through 25. A real good squad. Versatile, young, veterans, speed, power, stars, role players, etc..

    This team is loaded.

  9. Rich in NJ March 23rd, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    “I hate the idea that the Yankees made a move just because it was cheaper to keep one guy over the other……”

    Are you still mourning the decisions to pass on Abreu and Damon?

  10. m March 23rd, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    Way to go out on a limb with Mitre (it is Mitre) and Thames, Chad.

    Who’s your fifth starter? (before they name him)

  11. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 23rd, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    As for Joba IMO he is getting screwed out of that #5 position, when arbitration comes be ready.

  12. m March 23rd, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Yeah, Joba’s gonna whip out that WHIP.

  13. Rich in NJ March 23rd, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    “Yeah, Joba’s gonna whip out that WHIP.”

    :eek:

  14. ditmars1929 March 23rd, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Looks like another championship lineup to me!!!

  15. pat March 23rd, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    “I hate the idea that the Yankees made a move just because it was cheaper to keep one guy over the other……”

    Reading this makes me want to launch into my “No 14 year old needs a pair of $350 dollar jeans!” speech.

  16. Nick in SF March 23rd, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Brandon, yesterday you said Joba will be the #5. Now you say he’s getting screwed out of it. What happened overnight?

  17. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 23rd, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    “Yesterday, Joe Girardi said: “We have five guys (competing to be the fifth starter). We have, in a sense, one spot in the rotation and three in the bullpen.” Today, it was reported that Chad Gaudin was placed on waivers, cutting that list to four players for four spots.”

    :)

    Five guys. Not two, five. Proceed otherwise at your own peril. Now it is down to four. Not two, four.

    What better than to have that kind of competition.

    ***************

    I will be delighted if Ramiro Pena is the choice. The kid is fantastic IMO.

  18. upstate kate March 23rd, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    oh Rich did you have to bring that up? I still miss Abreu…Damon, Melky and Matsui as well…even tho I think the Yankees are as good if not better than last year :)

  19. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    What a reactionary group.

    What some of you have to understand is the teams know more about these players than we all do. Does that make them necessarily right? No, not even close.

    But what it should do is answer any question that begins with “I don’t understand why…”

    It could be as simple as regardless of the spring training stats, they saw things they like – velocity, movement, location, demeanor.

    And despite his struggles lat year, they could have saw things they liked.

    Same applies to the now-unbearable 5th starter competition. It has SO much more to do with results. It’s about projection as well. IF (and when) at the top of their game, who is the most tantalizing in terms of pure stuff and ability, rather than who has it together the most right now.

    The teams sees things in players fans don’t, for the mere fact they SEE the players SO much more than fans do.

    Again, doesn’t make them right, just more informed.

    Some of you also act like players have never emerged out of (seeming) nowhere, or took a little extra time to put their skills together.

    If Sergio Mitre is effective enough this year to be the last guy outta the bullpen and spot start here and there, would anyone be truly shocked?

    If you would be, I question how much baseball you’ve watched in your life, or how closely were you paying attention, or how much you understand what you’re seeing.

  20. Y's Guy March 23rd, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    brandon, guys try to get every cent out of a team in arbitration whether they are upset about something or not. joba isnt owned anything, certainly not a spot in the rotation.

    that being said, joba sounded like derrek jeter after his work yesterday saying he just wants to help the team in whatever way the team decides to use him.

    you may be miffed but im not convinced that joba is.

  21. ADam March 23rd, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Mitre Sucks, would have Gaudin, Ring, or Logan on there…. Not complaining, complaining about the last bullpen spot is a luxury… But Mitre is no good.. If he makes the roster he’ll be DFA’d or waived by May 15th..

  22. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    “The most interesting question to this point, apart from the 5th starter issue, is how long it will take Granderson to adjust to playing in NY.”

    Me, I’m still waiting for any empirical evidence suggesting it takes anyone more time to adjust to NY than it does adjusting anywhere else that is new.

    If the common wisdom – that the pressure and media attention make adjusting more challenging – is true, there should be statistical evidence to support it.

  23. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 23rd, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    I don’t believe for a minute that it was done because it was “cheaper” to keep one guy over the other. The Yankees haven’t been known to go on the cheap at the expense of hurting the team.

    Gaudin pitched himself off the roster. Or perhaps you’re thinking that if his ST was better than Mitre’s he still would have been let go because it was cheaper?

    I don’t buy it for a second.

  24. upstate kate March 23rd, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    I believe the competition was between 5 guys…however, and this is a big however, I don’t believe each had a 20% chance. I think the real competition was always between Phil and Joba.

  25. pat March 23rd, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Chad’s deductive reasoning works for me.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, your April 4th, 2010 NY Yankees. April 5th through November 2010- TBD

  26. randy l. March 23rd, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    rich in nj and m-

    nice tag team bashing of torre last night

    you do realize that Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera,Jorge Posada, and Derek Jeter on this roster all totally disagree with your opinion of torre and will remain close with torre for the rest of their lives.

    and rich in nj-

    you say cashman screwed up too with left field ?

    interesting. when do you go after girardi for his fifth starter pick ?

    that should be as interesting as your other recent opinions.

  27. Paco Dooley March 23rd, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Looks about right to me. I also like the fact that I can see this roster evolving into this and future seasons. I mean, I can see how swapping players from AAA this year and next, plus signings to replace some guys will mean a good team for the next few years. I guess that means that I don’t see a lot of long term dead weight.

  28. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 23rd, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    stuckey
    March 23rd, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Absolutely excellent post.

  29. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    I’m perfectly fine with Thames, but I wish Russo were going to make the team. Pena has very limited experience…but Russo is the much better hitter. Why not keep Russo? If Jeter goes down, I’m sure he can play a passable SS. If it’s for one or two days, no big deal; if it’s for longer, but not long-term, then bring back Pena.

  30. Patrick March 23rd, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Kind of silly to bash Torre, he brought this city 4 world series titles. He did as much as a manager can do in those 4 years. Hall of fame manager and all-time good guy.

  31. IDCWYT March 23rd, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    I think they kept Mitre because he is better trade bait.

  32. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    Rich, I have no clue what you’re talking about. You clearly don’t remember my posts about Damon and I never mourned the loss of Abreu. What’s your point?

  33. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 23rd, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    “Ladies and Gentlemen, your April 4th, 2010 NY Yankees. April 5th through November 2010- TBD”

    Bingo – and as it should be.

  34. Y's Guy March 23rd, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    yeah, its important to remember that injuries, ineffectiveness and emerging players will all have an effect on this roster. while joe keeps saying that the loser of the 5th starter combination will the the EIG (although i’m pretty sure we can count out at least two of ther ’20%ers’) that only gets him the ball the first time they need an eight inning releiver. after that, its all up to what they do with it. i wonder whether joba will hold down the 8th inning job or whether drob or chan ho might displace him once the season starts. without the electric stuff he showed his first time in the pen, he may not be able to hold down that spot.

  35. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    I didn’t realize the #5 spot was Joba’s birthright. He’s getting screwed out of it? Ok.

  36. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Brandon,

    having done 7 arbitrations in my career, being “mad” doesn’t help ones case. It’s all about production and framing a winning argument.

    If you can’t do that, the player will be even madder after the hearing because he will lose.

  37. pat March 23rd, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    randy l

    Why is saying anything negative about Torre perceived as bashing?

    He had his strengths and weaknesses and pointing out weaknesses is reality not heresy.

  38. Billy March 23rd, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    “I’m perfectly fine with Thames, but I wish Russo were going to make the team. Pena has very limited experience…but Russo is the much better hitter. Why not keep Russo? If Jeter goes down, I’m sure he can play a passable SS. If it’s for one or two days, no big deal; if it’s for longer, but not long-term, then bring back Pena.”

    I am a huge Russo fan but I am ok with him in SWB. It would be another story if he played a full year last year but injuries plagued him. He needs more time at short and in the outfield. That didn’t happen enough last year because of his injuries. If he can play all over, he will become the superutily player Mark Newman has talked about.

  39. miggs - GTLU Reigning Champion March 23rd, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Interesting that 4 out of the 7 projected bullpen spots will be filled by pitchers with extensive starting pitching experience (Park, Aceves, Mitre, Joba/Hughes).

    This would make the Yankees pen extremely dynamic and they could feasibly use 4 guys for multiple innings in the right situation.

    You will be hard pressed to find another major league bullpen with comparable flexibility and quality depth.

    This team could very easily exceed the 2009 win total. Its just stacked from top to bottom, no matter what the debbie-downers on this site proclaim.

  40. vinny-b March 23rd, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Joba needs to be pitching as a starter, in AAA

  41. Y's Guy March 23rd, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    randy, rich just argues to argue, he cant get the lawyer out of him.

    the torre bashing on here is ridiculous. i loved him as a player and as a manager. it was an ugly breakup but that happens. joe was great and i will always think of him as a great yankees manager.

  42. m March 23rd, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    randy l,

    I think I said Torre was very good. But at the end of his tenure, he was complacent. And to hear his side of it, he was embattled. I also think he said he was relieved and happy.

    But he did mess up with Joba and the midges. And he was wrong about the book. And saying that isn’t bashing his legacy.

    If you should be angry with anyone, be angry with the Yankees. They’re the ones who didn’t want him back.

  43. Nick in SF March 23rd, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    “What a reactionary group.”

    That’s a bit much. Aside from the highly vocal dissenters, I think a majority of commenters are ok — some even happy — with the Gaudin decision.

  44. ROberto for Paul March 23rd, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Whoever wins the 5th starter job will probably be sent down, right? So wouldn’t they keep an extra bullpen arm up with the big club until Joba/Hughes are needed?

    April 15th or 16th, right?

  45. blake March 23rd, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    I’m sure they want Russo to play everyday. Riding the Yankee pine isn’t going to help him develop.

  46. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Betsy,

    Russo has hit AA and AAA pitching in ST. He can’t play SS. Pena is an excellent defensive SS and actually swung the bat well for a bench player.

    Russo has been an everyday player his entire career. We have no idea if he can hit playing infrequently as a bench player. That’s a very tough adjustment for a young player.

    Best thing for Russo is to go to AAA, play everyday in as many positions as possible, and keep hitting.

    If he does that, it will increase his chances of being in the majors for somebody someday.

  47. Patrick from CT March 23rd, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    That Roster looks Great to me!
    The only guys on that list that have not shown much this Spring are Thames and Marte. If they stink the Yankees have guys to turn to at AAA.
    Health is the only thing that can keep this team from the playoffs; they are loaded!

  48. ditmars1929 March 23rd, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    How about we end the fifth starter debate by putting both Joba and Phil in the bullpen, and going with a four man rotation for the season?

  49. JohnC March 23rd, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    You keep Pena over Russo becuase with a backup IF, defense is more important. Also versatility. Pena can play 2nd, 3rd or short. Russo can’t play all 3 positions. Plus, Pena has proven that he isn’t exactly an automatic out at the plate.

  50. 7789 March 23rd, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    vinny-b
    March 23rd, 2010 at 12:40 pm
    Joba needs to be pitching as a starter, in AAA

    ——————————–

    I agree what kind of logic are the yankees using? Just when he is done with all his inning restrictions they put him back in the bullpen. He needs to continue devoloping as a starter in scranton. Or at least use him as a long man out of the bullpen and keep his arm stretched out incase there is an injury in the rotation like the way they used Aceves last year.

    Now if Hughes has an up and down season and struggles at the end will the yankees put him back in the bullpen next year?

  51. CB March 23rd, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    One of the yankees most important advantages over the Red Sox this year is their potential 6th starter.

    The Red Sox 6th starter is Wakefield who is now breaking down himself.

    The Yanks potential 6th stater is either Joba or Hughes – but that’s only if they actually commit to using one f those two as the 6th starter and use the one who is initially sent to the pen in a way which would allow him to be a 6th starter.

    If Sergio Mitre is your 6th starter, then the Red Sox do in fact have better pitching than the yanks. That’s the bottom line.

    Every spring training people make implicit assumptions that their team essentially will not suffer from injuries.

    People have this notion that a pitching rotation is “5 men.” It’s not. It’s “5 spots” – 5 spots which are going to get filled by anywhere from 5-8 players depending on injuries.

    The yanks have the talent to create a formidable rotation – one that is better than the Red Sox.

    But that depends on them utilizing their resources in a way which acknowledges that starting pitching is what wins games.

    They have an outstanding pen as it is – and depth in the minors.

    They should not squander either Joba or Hughes as traditional, 8th inning set up guys who pitch one inning at a time.

  52. m March 23rd, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    CB,

    Agreed. Re: the Red Sox, Dice-K and Wake both have recent history of injuries. Who’s their 7th starter?

  53. randy l. March 23rd, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    “Why is saying anything negative about Torre perceived as bashing?”

    pat-

    it’s a matter of degree.

    last night’s bashing of torre was unnecessary and does not reflect the beliefs of the core players on the yankees.

    you don’t think these guys would laugh at the attitude expressed last night.

    it’s one thing to disagree with me, but to disagree with posada, pettitte, jeter , and rivera is another thing.

    i wasn’t the one that brought this up again. our resident new know it all rich in nj regurgitated his worn opinions on torre and m jumped on board.

    it just gets old hearing this crap.

  54. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    I’m fine with that roster – though I still believe that Boone Logan has shown enough to warrant a spot and Marte has looked inconsistant enough that the Yankees might want a second lefty.

    Pena makes sense over Russo since I gather the Yankees want more defense out of their back up infielder. Pena isn’t the hitter that Russo is, but he’s not an automatic out either.

    And while I was wrong about Gardner losing his spot to Hoffmann I don’t think I’m wrong about this – by Memorial Day at the latest Brett Gardner will be the utility outfielder with Randy Winn getting the majority of the time.

    Winn struggled big time last year but he is a significantly better player than Gardner in every aspect other than pure foot speed.

  55. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    I don’t spend my time being upset at Joe. I’m very grateful for what he did here, but on the other hand, I can’t forgive him for his book or what he’s said about Cash. When do you ever see Cash call something “garbage”? Joe trashed (so to speak) his relationship with Brian because Brian dared to think differently than Joe. Mo, Jeter , etc… can still continue to love Joe, but that doesn’t mean others loved him and it doesn’t mean that others have to love him. Again, though, I never think of Joe – why would I?

    SJ, that’s very fair, but I guess I think Pena’s few at bats last year were flukish; he’s never hit in the minors. I’m fine with Russo getting playing time at AAA as long as they play him at SS; I’d like to see him someday stick with the team as opposed to finding success elsewhere.

  56. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    CB,

    What if they use Joba as they did Mo in 1996 (when he pitched 120 innings, including the post-season), doesn’t that change the dynamic?

    They have so much bullpen depth, in particular guys who can pitch multi-inning outings, it’s another way of using your pitching depth.

  57. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    CB, I couldn’t agree with you more. If Cashman feels the “loser” is still a starter at heart, then I don’t see how Mitre is the 6th guy. Joe may like him, but he’s got an awful lot to prove.

  58. Bronx Jeers March 23rd, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    “What a reactionary group.”

    That’s a bit much.

    ——————————————————–

    Technical foul!

    No tripling down on “reactions”

  59. CB March 23rd, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    “the Red Sox, Dice-K and Wake both have recent history of injuries. Who’s their 7th starter?”

    Tazawa

  60. Joe from Long Island March 23rd, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    My opinion – Sergio Mitre is still being showcased; even once the season starts. I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if, once the season starts and teams see what they have in real competition, GMs call Cash and inquire.

    In the meantime, Joe has said he is comfortable with Robertson facing LH hitters.

  61. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    “That’s a bit much. Aside from the highly vocal dissenters, I think a majority of commenters are ok — some even happy — with the Gaudin decision.”

    Fair enough

  62. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Marte has pitched in one game this spring. How exactly can you determine he’s Bern “inconsistent@?

    Logan has options, which is why he’s likely to start the year in AAA.

    Robertson also has great numbers against lefties. They don’t need a second lefty of Robertson continues to be strong against lefties.

    Veterans use ST to get ready for the season. As long as they are healthy, their numbers are meaningless.

    Only time Marte was 100% last year was in October. We saw how that turned out.

    The Yankees have a weapon in a healthy Marte.

  63. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    “What if they use Joba as they did Mo in 1996″

    Or Hughes.

  64. m March 23rd, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    HaHa. I think, but don’t want to go back and re-read the whole sordid affair, that my thoughts on the matter were in reaction to someone suggesting that Joe deserved a pass for everything because of what he had done in his first 5 years.

    I didn’t necessarily think that was true.

    They’re my own thoughts, and had nothing to do with teaming up with Rich or jumping on his coattails.

  65. Chad Jennings March 23rd, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Not a cop out on the fifth starter, this was simply a post about who seems likely to make the roster and why.

    My opinion is that Hughes will be and should be the fifth starter. I’m very much in the Joba-as-a-starter camp, but forced to choose one or the other for this season, I’d go with Hughes. And I think the Yankees will do the same.

  66. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    I agree about Marte……I really like him.

  67. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 23rd, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Y’s Guy, and that’s the beauty of the game, especially the way Girardi manages. Nothing is etched in stone.

    To tell you the truth, I love that way of managing.

    *********************

    Stuckey, I believe there are players who fold under the NY pressure. I don’t know what kind of empirical evidence you’re looking for because stats can be explained in many different ways. So there might be no evidence that would convince you. I would at least suggest Ricky Ledee, Jeff
    Weaver, Jose Contreras, and Ted Lilly as possibilities.

  68. ArtieA March 23rd, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Hard to believe the Yanks will give up on both Logan and Ring considering Marte hasn’t been lights out this spring and even had a set-back. I think its a gamble not having another lefty., right now. Was wondering what minor league options were left with both Ring and Logan?

  69. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Stuckey,

    Barring a change of minds, Hughes is the 5th starter.

    Wouldn’t shock me if it’s made official by the end of the week.

  70. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 23rd, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    “Joba needs to be pitching as a starter, in AAA”

    Agreed. They came off a championship, Hughes will hit his innings cap and then what Hughes Rules.. the whole point of the Joba Rules was to make him a SP, now they are thinking of yanking it away.

  71. m March 23rd, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Chad,

    Thanks for your thoughts there. Seems to be the same as the other writers. Will Girardi throw a curveball?

    It’s a strange situation unlike any I’ve personally seen. Me thinks the Red Sox would kill to have the same situation. Tazawa? Ouch.

  72. William Buckner March 23rd, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    “People have this notion that a pitching rotation is “5 men.” It’s not. It’s “5 spots” – 5 spots which are going to get filled by anywhere from 5-8 players depending on injuries.”

    I actually believe due to injury, they’ll will go as deep as McAlister this year, or someone of that class.

    Kind of hoping it’s him. Kid seems like he’s pretty composed.

  73. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    One thing people have to keep in mind is, who the 6th starter for emergency/spot starts/a minor injury, and who the 6th starter in the event of a sigificant injury might be 2 different people.

    I have little doubt if a starter suffers a major injury, the Chamberlain/Hughes bullpen guy gets stretched out to fill that role.

    But if a starter is scratched for precautionary reasons and misses 1 or 2 starts, or had a routine-non pitching injury (a pulled hammy) it might be Mitre and/or Aceves instead.

    One size does not fit all.

  74. Nick in SF March 23rd, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    CB: very well said.

    Some people have laughed at the level of discussion that the 5th starter decision has gotten and a few have posted the rogues’ gallery list of 5th starters in recent years (ignoring that the 5th starter question fills a vaccum of topics with so few questions on this loaded team).

    I don’t think it’s so important to the team’s 2010 fortunes who the 5th starter is if he remains the 5th starter all year. But in recent years the 5th (and 6th and 7th) starters have been needed to do more.

    In 2008 Joba went from being in the bullpen with plans to stretch him out eventually to being on of the best 3 starters.

    Last year he started as #5 but quickly became the #4, with mixed results.

    This year, on paper, it’s set up just as it was last year on paper: four reliable vets on top who should pitch a lot of innings and provide plenty of cover for the #5′s normal growing pains. If it doesn’t happen quite like that, things get more interesting.

  75. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Veterans don’t have to be “lights out” in the spring. That’s what some of you don’t get.

    Marte’s spot on the roster is safe because when healthy, he’s an asset.

    He’s not trying out for a roster spot. His is already assured.

  76. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    “Barring a change of minds, Hughes is the 5th starter. ”

    Are you implying you have new information to that effect?

  77. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Marte’s pitched exactly twice this spring…

  78. Chad Jennings March 23rd, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Logan can be optioned. Ring is on a minor league deal. Both can be sent to Scranton to open the season.

  79. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Tazawa pitched very well against the Yankees last year…….

  80. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Chad, that’s good news; thanks!

  81. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Brandon, the Yankees have an awful lot invested in Phil, too; why should he be penalized because they decided to put him in the pen last year?

  82. Pat M. March 23rd, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    There’ll be no Hughes rules, so let’s move on……

  83. Phil the Thrill March 23rd, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Marte has never been an asset, healthy or harmed.

  84. Warning Track Power March 23rd, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    aside from the Hughes/Joba battle, i really think our bullpen will be strong to begin the season.
    Mitre should be improved from last year
    Ace is so valuable and can pitch 1 inning or multiple innings
    Park could surprise a lot of people when he takes the hill.

    Gaudin could not match either of them this spring. I wish we had room for his arm because he seemed like a good luck charm, but I hope the team won’t regret the decision to let him go.

  85. vinny-b March 23rd, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    “Re: Joba as a starter in AAA. I agree what kind of logic are the yankees using? Just when he is done with all his inning restrictions they put him back in the bullpen. He needs to continue devoloping as a starter in scranton”
    ——————————————————

    exactly

    and if the Yankees are not careful, Joba will turn into the native american version of Jeff Weaver

  86. m March 23rd, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    stuckey,

    If Joba is the #5, then I’m sure SJ will man up and say he was wrong. As will I. And every writer in the tri-state area.

    It’s just an opinion based on gut instinct (woman’s intuition in some cases).

    Just like plenty of people are saying Joba will win. Based on IP counts. Some like to bring up career ERA. But I don’t think that accounts for much.

  87. pat March 23rd, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    randy l

    I’m happy for Jeter, Posada, Pettitte and Rivera that they found a forever friend but if given truth serum, I doubt they would agree with everything Torre did during his tenure in NY and beyond it.

    A big difference between them and Torre at this point is they haven’t accepted $2M to tell everyone what those things are. :wink:

    Torre is not the anti-Christ but he is also not Christ. People who don’t choose to see those foibles are as guilty of revisionist thinking as those who don’t choose to see the successes.

  88. Coach6423 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Tazawa pitched very well against the Yankees last year…….

    —————————-

    Arod says hi….

  89. Phil the Thrill March 23rd, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Yikes! I meant Mitre has never been an asset! Sorry! Marte had unusual consistency in the volatile world of short relievers.

  90. Y's Guy March 23rd, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    clean single for melky to start off the mets game…

  91. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 23rd, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    “Brandon, the Yankees have an awful lot invested in Phil, too; why should he be penalized because they decided to put him in the pen last year?”

    But the high end arm is Joba. Look I like Hughes, I actually think he was better than Joba in the SU role and more equip for that role. But he didn’t win any job if he is given the #5 role, this was handed to him.

  92. 86w183 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    I don’t like carrying 12 pitchers. The guys in the No. 11 and 12 spots will be rusting out there. This is especially true with a staff that boasts four proven innings eaters.

    Not sure Mitre will adjust well to the pen. A guy with arm issues does better with much more regular routine than that.

  93. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Brandon,

    Hughes can throw upwards of 175 innings this year. Plenty enough for a 5th starter.

    Major league pitchers don’t belong in AAA, which is why neither Joba or Phil will be Scranton Yankees.

  94. CB March 23rd, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    “What if they use Joba as they did Mo in 1996 (when he pitched 120 innings, including the post-season), doesn’t that change the dynamic?”

    SJ,

    I completely agree with that and have been advocating that.

    However, in order to do that effectively without endangering the health of the pitcher a commitment to keeping the pitcher stretched out needs to be made and it must be carefully planned for.

    And the fact is 1996 was 14 years ago and Mo didn’t throw 120 innings. He threw 107 in 66 appearances. And since then very few if any relief pitchers have been used the way Mariano was in 1996.

    Over the past 5 years here are the highest inning totals for any reliever in baseball”

    1. 2009 – 89 inning
    2. 2008 – 89 inning
    3. 2007 – 94 innings
    4. 2006 – 102 innings (Scott Proctor – yankees)
    5. 2005 – 94 innings

    No reliever has come even close to 120 innings – and this despite the fact that relief pitchers make pitch in an inordinately high number of games.

    Last year hughes threw 51 innings out of the pen. That’s it – 51 innings in 44 appearances. To get that reliever role to 120 innings this year Girardi would have to use either Joba or Hughes for 235% more innings compared to the 51 Hughes threw last year.

    It would require a complete rethinking of the way the entire staff is used.

    Part of what concerns me about the comparisons to Mo in 1996 is not only how long ago that was but it’s another example of Mo just being a complete outlier.

    In many ways Mo’s pattern of usage in 1996 is a terrible model for the yankees in 2010 because quite honestly – Torre used Mo with short term use in mind. Torre was using Mo exclusivley to win in 1996 – not to conserve Mo’s arm for the next 15 years. Mo was an unknown and it was unclear if he was going to be one of those flash in the pan relievers or a long term asset for the team until the post season was over.

    They are fortunate Mo didn’t get hurt in 1996 – it’s simply a testament to how great Mo’s mechanics and athleticism are.

    I don’t see Joba having either of those qualities.

    If Joba is going to pitch over 100 innings out of the pen it’ll have to be carefully regimented rather than the way Mo was used in 1996.

  95. William Buckner March 23rd, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the old adage the two months that you can’t trust numbers are March and September?

  96. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Coach, who was the guy who shut out the Yankees at Fenway last year? If it wasn’t Tazawa, it was another Japanese pitcher. I think it was an 11-0 game…

  97. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    “I would at least suggest Ricky Ledee, Jeff
    Weaver, Jose Contreras, and Ted Lilly as possibilities.”

    The problem with the notion Erica, is you need to separate the players that simply folded because it was there time to fold, and folded BECAUSE it was the Yankees.

    Free agents and traded players have down years and even career crashes all the time, on the Yankees and the smallest of the small markets.

    Now did Jose Contreras have a REALLY good year and post-season once? yes. But overall, has he been any better elsewhere than he was in NY?

    Ricky Ledee has a really good post-season in NY once. How is that explained? Perhaps his problem was that he was simply young? Has even really had a distinguished career since leaving NY?

    I think as fans we want to believe that narrative that performing in NY is special because it’s harder.

    I have my doubts that true, simply because for every failure in NY, I can easily name guys who struggled in Oakland (Matt Holiday anyone?) and EVERY major league city.

    I’m not saying for certain it isn’t legitimate, I’m simply saying I need more than anecdotal evidence, because that’s HIGHLY subject to misinterpretation.

  98. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Brandon, wow, I couldn’t disagree more. Phil is not a high end arm? He would have had the gig handed to him? I don’t get it, but different strokes for different folks.

  99. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Phil,

    I guess you missed the post-season last year.

    If you don’t think he was an asset in the post-season, Joe Girardi strongly disagrees with you.

  100. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    That’s also true, CB. Mo is a freak in many ways……

  101. five iron from fenway March 23rd, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Chad – Thanks. My post at the top of the thread was a bit tongue in cheek.
    CB – The Red Sox also have Bowden who would be in the mix for a back-up starting pitcher spot. I would not have much faith in either of those guys. Also, they are counting on Bucholz to make a big leap up to #4 and do it all season. I think with Beckett, Lester and Lackey they may be marginally better than the Yankees 1-3 but then every other aspect of the pitching staffs goes to the Yankees.

  102. Bronx Jeers March 23rd, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    “Torre is not the anti-Christ but he is also not Christ.”

    Quasi Christ?
    Pseudo Christ?
    Christ Nouveau?

    Actually the real Christ will be catching in Scranton trying to turn Igawa’s water into wine.

  103. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    What if they use Joba as they did Mo in 1996 (when he pitched 120 innings, including the post-season), doesn’t that change the dynamic?

    In 1996 Mo typically pitched the 7th and 8th. I don’t see them going that road with Joba. It’s more likely that Joba will pitch just the 8th and having him pitch multiple innings will be the exception and not the rule.

    At most I anticipate Joba pitching between 75 – 85 innings.

  104. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 23rd, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Yes Betsy he’s not, atleast right now no. Can I see him shutting down the AL East as a SP, no I really can’t. I think we have hard times coming w/ him, and we abandoned Joba’s role too quickly, if this happens.

  105. BJK March 23rd, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    SJ44
    March 23rd, 2010 at 1:11 pm
    Brandon,
    Hughes can throw upwards of 175 innings this year. Plenty enough for a 5th starter.
    Major league pitchers don’t belong in AAA, which is why neither Joba or Phil will be Scranton Yankees.

    ————————————————————–

    What happens when someone gets hurt and the 5th becomes the 4th, like Joba last year when he ran out of innings?

  106. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    “why should he be penalized because they decided to put him in the pen last year?”

    Betsy, are you completely unwilling to reconsider your notion that relieving in the major leagues is a penalty?

    I’m sorry, but I can’t subscribe to your theory that all major league bullpens are filled with losers all suffering silently and lamenting their fate, which (as certainly as your going to rebut that’s how you often make it sound) is how you often make it sound.

    Bullpen pitchers don’t all wear dunce caps and sit in the corner.

  107. Jerkface March 23rd, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Tazawa got rocked in that extra inning game, but he some really good defense by JD Drew bail him out twice.

    http://tinyurl.com/ydxjo6s <– this link has the assistant GM of the Twins embarrassing himself. Says he would sign a guy with lots of RBIs over a guy with a high slugging percentage. Probably why they traded for Delmon YOung.

  108. CB March 23rd, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    One point to clarify in prior post regarding Mo’s use in 1996.

    I don’t think you can count his post season innings as an example of his overall pattern of use. The post season is a different animal – all hands on deck and you do what’s needed to win.

    Those innings weren’t planned for – Mo just stepped up to fill them.

  109. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 23rd, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    stuckey
    March 23rd, 2010 at 1:13 pm
    “I would at least suggest Ricky Ledee, Jeff
    Weaver, Jose Contreras, and Ted Lilly as possibilities.”

    The problem with the notion Erica, is you need to separate the players that simply folded because it was there time to fold, and folded BECAUSE it was the Yankees.

    ****************

    Erica???????? I didn’t post anything

  110. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 23rd, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Chad, I don’t know if you have these stats at your fingertips, in other words if they are memorialized somewhere where you can easily access them, but Dave Eiland had given a list of things that the Yankees were going to be looking at when making their decision regarding the 5th starter.

    I wonder if you would want to try to provide a chart showing exactly how each of the twenty percenters has fared according to what Eiland said.

    It really doesn’t matter to me who emerges as the 5th starter, 6th starter, 7th starter etc. We all know that the 5th starter will be the 5th starter only as long as he produces (or as long as he isn’t injured). And so on and so on. So it isn’t like the finally revelation is going to be a guarantee for the entire season. As they say, that’s why they play the games.

    Of course if you have no interest in devising such a chart, I’m fine with that too.

    :)

    (Someone had posted an article where Eiland enumerated the factors that were going to be considered. If you don’t have that information I’m sure we could find it for you.)

  111. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    CB,

    I was counting the 13 post-season innings Mo threw in 1996 to get to 120.

    Even if he pitches 100 innings out of the pen this year, which (counting post-season) is attainable, he’s fully stretched out developmentally.

    Meaning, like Hughes this year, he can go back into the rotation in 2011, if they determine that’s where he belongs.

  112. Coach6423 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    If giving up 8 hits, and 2 walks, and a HBP in 6 innings is owning the Yankees, then sure he owned them.

  113. Phil the Thrill March 23rd, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    SJ44

    I hope you saw my correction.

  114. Bronx Jeers March 23rd, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Coach, who was the guy who shut out the Yankees at Fenway last year? If it wasn’t Tazawa, it was another Japanese pitcher. I think it was an 11-0 game…

    ———————————————————–

    It was Tazawa who everybody thought was going to crumble like stale nori but instead benefited greatly from “AJ @ Fenway: The Meltdown Part II”

  115. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    “Last year hughes threw 51 innings out of the pen. That’s it – 51 innings in 44 appearances.”

    In 4 months. Used sparingly due to the unknown quality of how he would react to the role.

    If you want 110 regular season innings, that’s about 4 1/3 innings a week over 26 weeks.

    If either stays healthy and performs, it can be done.

  116. m March 23rd, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    I think Tazawa got off to a decent start as the last man out of the pen that day. But like using your finger to plug the Hoover Dam, it just wasn’t going to work.

  117. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Stuckey, let’s just quit this because we will never agree. Phil wants to be a starter, most pitchers want to be starters. I never said he’d be moping in the pen, so stop putting words in my mouth. Phil deserves an equal shot at starting and shouldn’t be penalized (yes, I’m not apologizing for using the word) because he was in the pen last year. Being a good reliever is NOT the same thing as being a good starter. We disagree, obviously, so let’s leave it there.

  118. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Erica, meant Trisha, sorry.

  119. joeysdadjoe March 23rd, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Hughes will be the #5 starter

    Joba and Marte will make a nasty 7th/8th inning bridge to Mo

    Robertson and Aceves are almost too good to pitch before then…but on this team they will

    Thames has this team made. Chip said by Memorial day Winn would play ahead of Gardner. He is half right it will be a Winn/Thames platoon in left

    Granderson will play center.If Gardner was a sure thing he would play center.He isn’t and won’t.

    Pena will be the backup inf. What some forget is he actually hit well when he played last year. Russo had to beat him out and didn’t

  120. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Whatever, Coach. I never said he OWNED them and I also admitted I could be thinking of another pitcher. Get off your high horse.

  121. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    I did Phil.

    Folks need to research what the average amount of innings #5 starters logged last year.

    When you do, you will see Hughes will not be as innings challenged as some believe.

    He can pitch 150-175 innings this year, well within his limits.

  122. Erin March 23rd, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Coach6423
    March 23rd, 2010 at 1:10 pm
    Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Tazawa pitched very well against the Yankees last year…….

    —————————-

    Arod says hi….

    ****************************

    :lol:

  123. CB March 23rd, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    “The Red Sox also have Bowden who would be in the mix for a back-up starting pitcher spot.”

    Bowden is probably their 8th starter – wakefield is 6th, Tazawa 7nth, Bowden 8th. From what I’ve gathered they’ve “soured” on him some and now see him more as a bull pen guy.

    It’s in rotation spots 6, 7, and 8 where the yankees have significant advantages over the Sox.

    Joba/ Hughes, Aceves, Mitre is much, much better than Wakefield, Tazawa and Bowden.

    And those guys are all going to get needed. Starting pitchers get hurt.

    The Sox are already using their 6th starter to begin the season as Wakefield is going to step in for Dice-k.

    I don’t see how the Sox can count on huge innings out of Dice-K or Lackey.

    At the same time, the yankees starters threw a ton of innings last year and many staffs have suffered the year following a world series.

    The yanks would be very wise to plan on making sure starters 6 and 7 are good ones and not just a guy who plays a role which is what Mitre would be.

  124. m March 23rd, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Remember the fear and the buzz around the league when the Sox signed Penny & Smoltz? Whoo. Talk about gambles that failed. Thank goodness. The season could’ve unfolded quite differently.

  125. William Buckner March 23rd, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Is part of the problem that neither Hughes or Joba has proved to be a successful starter? Therefore, it’s tough to put BOTH in a rotation at the same time.

    It would help so much if either would step up and show to be a starter, then it would be easier to allow the other to settle in as well.

  126. Erin March 23rd, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Y’s Guy
    March 23rd, 2010 at 1:10 pm
    clean single for melky to start off the mets game…

    ************************
    Good for Melky :)

  127. Pat M. March 23rd, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    He was St.Joe, and his tenure as the Yankee Skipper will be legendary in the years that lie ahead……They’ll be many who will discover what many of us already know…..This place has become so fixated on the negative, what won’t work , obsessed will perceived failures rather than what went well…..Clear and accurate evaluations can never be attained under such narrow minded observations…….Objectivity is a lost concept here more often than not….Sad but true

  128. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 23rd, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    stuckey
    March 23rd, 2010 at 1:23 pm
    Erica, meant Trisha, sorry.

    **********

    Its okay. I just got concerned/confused cause I knew I hadn’t posted anything.

    I am at a client today and my boss was quizzing me and haven’t been able to come on

  129. Jerkface March 23rd, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Bowden is the biggest smoke and mirrors guy I’ve seen since Matt DeSalvo. His fastball is straight as an arrow and not that fast.

  130. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Hughes was also coming off an injury filled year in 2008 and had never pitched out of the pen before in his career.

    I think those factors played into the frequency of his usage.

    I do agree they were overly conservative with him last year.

  131. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    I said it last night and I’ll say it again today (not because I’m certain I’m right, but for those who didn’t catch the comment yesterday)

    If Joba Chamberlain is pitching in the 8th inning this year then I believe we have seen the last of Joba as a starter. And while I don’t believe that the 8th inning reliever is a waste of a spot, I do believe it is a waste of Joba Chamberlain’s value.

    It’s true, Mariano to Wetteland was a dynamic combo in 1996 – I believe it was Tom Kelly who said that it was flat out unfair to have the two of them shutting games down from the 7th inning on. But Mariano also only did that for a year and then the Yankees let Wetteland go so that Mo could take over as closer and went with guys like Stanton and Nelson as more traditional set up men.

    Does anyone believe that the Yankees, following this season will send Mariano on his merry way so that they can install Joba as the closer?

    I didn’t think so. Mariano is going to be the Yankee closer until he doesn’t want to be the Yankee closer anymore.

    What does that mean for the Yankees then? Well, it means that the Yankees are taking one of the most dynamic arms in their organization and putting it in a spot that can be easily filled with a slightly lesser pitcher. They are essentially turning him into Joel Zumaya or Aaron Heilman.

    My suggestion then is that the Yankees explore trade options for Joba.

    Is his value as high as it was a year or two ago – nope, but there are still teams that look at him either as a closer or a top of the rotation starter. The longer he pitches in the 8th the less likely it is he can ever be a starter again and so his value continues to drop.

    As for whether or not Joba’s role in the pen will just be for a year – I highly highly doubt it. The Yankees want to get this over with. They want him to have a role and stop this endless debate.

    Javy and Andy will be free agents next year – assume at least one of them returns. That leaves one open spot in the rotation. The Yankees could fill it from outside with a Cliff Lee or Josh Beckett or Ted Lilly or fill it from within the organization with an Ivan Nova, Zach McAllister, Andrew Brackman, DJ Mitchell, Alfredo Aceves, Sergio Mitre, etc…

    So why not use Joba in a trade package that could get the Yankees a dynamic young outfielder? I know that the sights are set on Carl Crawford, but what if the Yankees could get a Matt Kemp, Carlos Gonzalez, Denard Span, or Grady Sizemore for Chamberlain and then use the money they were going to spend on Crawford elsewhere?

  132. S.o.S. March 23rd, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    If the Yankees are becoming a penny pinching team. Why not put Igawa on waivers and whatever a team wants to buy him for. Use that money to keep Guadin. He looked promising last year and i would have preferred him staying than Mitre. Why is Kei still here?!

  133. Coach6423 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    And Joba had never pitched out of the pen before 2007. There cases are the same with the exception that Joba has had more success as a starter.

  134. CB March 23rd, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    “Even if he pitches 100 innings out of the pen this year, which (counting post-season) is attainable, he’s fully stretched out developmentally. ”

    I agree and I’d be happy to see that. But it really depends on how many appearances are required to get him 100 innings.

    The last relief pitcher to throw over 100 innings in the regular season was Scott Proctor for the yanks in 2006. We all remember that season. He made 83 appearances.

    In 2006 Solomon Torres threw the second most innings out of the pen – 94. Torres made an amazing 94 appearances.

    What they need to do with Joba or Hughes is to not only set an innings goal – but an appearances goal.

    They can’t risk either one of them throwing 100 innings but that taking 80+ appearances. That’s just abusing them for short term gain.

    110 innings in the regular season with no more than 60-65 appearances. Ideally it would be 110 innings over 50-55 appearances. That should be the goal.

    Then they could tack on another 10 innings or so in the post season.

  135. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    How about we end the fifth starter debate by putting both Joba and Phil in the bullpen, and going with a four man rotation for the season?

    __

    How bout since half the pen are former starters, we go to a 6 man rotation? joba and hughes can both start and the long guys in the pen can make up for one less pen spot.

  136. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 23rd, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    S.o.S.
    March 23rd, 2010 at 1:31 pm
    If the Yankees are becoming a penny pinching team. Why not put Igawa on waivers and whatever a team wants to buy him for. Use that money to keep Guadin. He looked promising last year and i would have preferred him staying than Mitre. Why is Kei still here?!

    **************

    He has naked pictures of Brian Cashman
    (Only explanation I can come up with)

  137. Frank March 23rd, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    “Why not put Igawa on waivers and whatever a team wants to buy him for”

    Because nobody would claim him with his $4M salary.

  138. Pat M. March 23rd, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    SJ, The other factor that gets overlooked, is the quality of innings……Hughes throws so many easy innings ( low pitch counts )which really is the bottom line……Will his 175 innings be an easy 175 or a stressed 175, which was Joba’s undoing last season…..I mean you get to 100 pitches somewhere in the 4th inning is not desirable in the grand scheme of the 175 inning cap

  139. Billy March 23rd, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    “Pena will be the backup inf. What some forget is he actually hit well when he played last year. Russo had to beat him out and didn’t”

    I think Russo more than held his own but I don’t think he ever was going to get a shot to beat Pena out. He needs to play and get past injuries. He hasn’t played more than 100 games since 2007.

  140. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    “Stuckey, let’s just quit this because we will never agree.”

    And there is good reason for that.

    “I never said he’d be moping in the pen, so stop putting words in my mouth.”

    May I ask how you can chatise me for putting words in your mouth when you you just did the very same? I didn’t say you said that.

    “Phil deserves an equal shot at starting and shouldn’t be penalized (yes, I’m not apologizing for using the word) because he was in the pen last year.”

    No, no player “deserves” anything. That’s not opinion, that’s a FACT. Phil Hughes doesn’t deserve anything. Joba Chamberlain doesn’t deserve anything. So long as you use this premise as the basis of your argument, you will continue to be wrong.

    Answer me this question if you stand by your “deserve” argument – how can Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes both get what they “deserve”?

    If you’re answer is a.) trading them from away from the Yankees – that the Yankees have the responsiblity to weaken their teams to further the careers of their players, then you’re fundamentally and inarguably wrong.

    If you’re answer is B.) one should go to the minor leagues, I’ll refer you to your own assertion.

    “Being a good reliever is NOT the same thing as being a good starter.”

    Being a major league pitcher is NOT the same thing as being a minor league pitcher. Phil Hughes will tell you as much.

    And Betsy, you know as well as I and will admit as much you’re conclusion are clouded by your favortism of Hughes.

  141. S.o.S. March 23rd, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    My biggest beef with Torre was that I didnt like the constant nose digging on televised games. Not sure if it was the SWING AWAY sign but he should have mixed it up a little on those instances. Had to get that off my chest.

  142. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    CB,

    100 innings divided by 1.66 innings (or 1 and 2/ 2rds) is 60.

  143. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 23rd, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    “Why not put Igawa on waivers and whatever a team wants to buy him for”
    ******************

    Why you want to trade Igawa?

  144. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Pat M,

    Agreed.

    CB,

    I agree. If Joba pitches 60-65 games out of the pen, doable if the top 4 starters stay healthy, he can easily hit 100 innings.

    If he does so, he is stretched out enough to go back into the rotation next year, if they so choose.

    They have no desire to trade him. They just don’t know where he fits best.

    It’s why going back to the bullpen has been back on the table since the off-season.

  145. five iron from fenway March 23rd, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Cliff Lee would be a fortune, Beckett is likely to sign with the Sox and no thanks on Lilly.
    That is why the Yankees need to think Joba and Phil both starters long term.
    Hopefully, Nova, Macallister can emerge as a 5th starter next year but I don’t think either really has the ceiling of Joba or Phil.
    Down the road you can look at Brackman, Garcia (health always the caveat), Betances (health always the caveat), Banuelos, Phelps, Warren, Bleich and some other guys.
    Starting pitching is really, really hard to come by and especially at a level of reasonable cost control.
    Again why I think no matter what happens with the 5th starter this year both should be looked at as starters for next year.
    CB – Don’t forget the new Boston icon in Casey Kelly. According to the media up here – with only little exaggeration – he is the next great thing from the Boston development machine that brought you Lester, Bucholz, Bowden (not quite), the closer of the future (name I always forget) etc.

  146. S.o.S. March 23rd, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Because nobody would claim him with his $4M salary.

    =====

    Why not call the Padres, Pirates, Reds, Royals and any other AAAA team. See if they would take him for 500k. Use that money to keep Chad.

    Or option #2
    Have the guys in AAA tell Kei to fork out 500k of his own money to use for Gaudin. Im sure the team holding towels with soap in it would be an offer he wouldnt refuse.

  147. Moose March 23rd, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Looking at the roster, the pitching looks formidable especially considering the depth…if Marte falters, Ring and Logan have been excellent depth pickups, we have Melancon in the wings, and of course whoever loses the 5th spot competition. But most especially having front-end rotation guys that know how to carry big innings makes life a lot easier!

    The weakness is the outfield..carrying one or even two from Gardner, Thames and Winn is passable, but from a Yankee expectation level, having all three is pretty mediocre, esp. given Granderson’s great struggles vs. LHP. It’s almost a foregone conclusion that Cashman will need to acquire another OF bat sometime this year fortunately that’s generally an available commodity, so I have no real issue with the bandaid approach to begin the year. One quiet ST positive is Swisher who seems ready to have another fine year – and prove that his miserable year in Chicago was an aberration caused perhaps by association with “Twitter Bozo” Guillen, crazy AJP et al.

  148. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Regardless of what happens this year, either Hughes or Chamberlain can you used as a starter next year.

    This year doesn’t seal anyone’s fate, assuming they’re still the most talented starter candidate in the system in 2011.

  149. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Both Carl Crawford and Cliff Lee are on the Yankees radar.

    If Javy has a big year and they think they can get something done with him, that’s also a possibilty. Which would remove Lee from consideration.

    Crawford is #1 on their off-season hit list.

  150. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Pat M, to be fair, Phil often found it hard to get out of the 5th inning himself……..

  151. CB March 23rd, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    The concern with Joba’s usage out of the pen isn’t only for next year. It’s this year.

    It would not be a big surprise for Pettitte’s shoulder to start “barking” in June or July. He’s 38 and has thrown a lot of innings and has had arm problems on and off for several years – including 2008.

    Last year when Wang went down and later when Joba became very ineffective they couldn’t safely move Hughes back into the rotation because it would take too long to stretch him out safely again.

    The yanks have intimated that if they had a viable alternative they would have pulled Joba from the rotation at the end of last year.

    They won the world series with a 3 man rotation – but that was far from optimal.

    It’s very telling that the team has so much apparent confidence in Hughes as a starter this year but was nonetheless forced to use a 3 man rotation for all of the playoffs only a few short months ago.

    Their confidence in Hughes now isn’t due to his post season performance.

    Using Hughes as a one inning set up guy significantly hampered their capacity to respond to injuries in the starting rotation.

    People are forgetting this because they won last year.

    They should not take that risk again in 2010. And they have it in their control not to.

  152. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    I’m only interested in Crawford at the right price – I hope they don’t blow a ton of $$$ on this guy. I’m not interested in Cliff Lee and his burdensome contract; If Javy has a good year, I’d rather re-sign Javy.

  153. S.o.S. March 23rd, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    (name I always forget)

    =========

    Look up Gammons HOF best closers of all time list and youll find him his picture at the very top. HANSEN.

  154. Nick in SF March 23rd, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Does anyone disagree with this statement?

    ‘Both Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain have defensible cases to be named the 5th starter; neither one has an obvious and overwhelming case to be chosen over the other.

    How the Yankees handle the role of the pitcher not chosen is a tricky question, but either Phil or Joba would be a sensible choice to start to open in 2010.”

  155. S.o.S. March 23rd, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Why you want to trade Igawa?

    ========

    Brandon,
    Unless Igawa is selling a ton of Scranton merchandise and shades with interlocking NY on them. He’s useless and a waste of money.

  156. Keep it March 23rd, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Chris Hansen is a great closer. Always makes those potential ‘hitters’ have a seat…

  157. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 23rd, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    S.o.S.
    March 23rd, 2010 at 1:48 pm
    Why you want to trade Igawa?

    ========

    Brandon,
    Unless Igawa is selling a ton of Scranton merchandise and shades with interlocking NY on them. He’s useless and a waste of money.

    *********************

    I have my Scranton jersey!!!!!!!!!!
    And Kei Igawa bubblehead :lol:

  158. Frank March 23rd, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    “They won the world series with a 3 man rotation – but that was far from optimal.”

    If not for the NBA-like playoff schedule employed by MLB, it would have been impossible. Don’t know whether they plan to address it, but the number of off days last year was just ridiculous.

  159. Alan March 23rd, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    No team ever starts the postseason with the exact roster they left spring training with.
    Any number of things can happen for Cashman to have cause to make roster moves.
    At some point in the season Russo, Melancon, Logan or Ring, or an OF could be needed on the 25-man roster.
    And then there’s the proverbial 7/31 trading deadline for a missing piece that Cashman deems necessary to help for the final push of the season.
    The Yankees will leave Tampa with what they feel are the best 25 players and proceed from there.

  160. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    I think it is a very good point to note that Phil was coming off an injury-plagued 2008 and hadn’t yet been a reliever. That’s not the case with Joba, so I hope the Yankees will be more creative with him (if he’s in the pen; same with Phil). Phil was fantastic/brilliant in the pen, but putting him there absolutely hurt the Yankees with regards to depth in SP. The one thing I think the Yankees need to do is make very clear that whomever is the 5th starter is not going to be on a short rope. I can forsee fans and media making a stink if Phil/Joba struggle as a starter. They will clamor for the other kid to be reinstated into the rotation. Unless the “winner” is just brutal, you keep him in the rotation.

  161. Richard Alpert Episode TONIGHT! March 23rd, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    Why are we still debating Joba/Hughes? Joba isn’t conditioned to give you 6 good innings every time out. He has shown zero mental toughness and had trouble getting out of the first inning last season. If this spring training was really a competition, the only place Joba belongs is in AAA where he can hopefully

    a) Get about 2-3 MPH back on that fastball
    b) Learn how to throw his slider again
    c) Learn to trust his stuff again
    d) Stop focusing on striking out the side
    e) Stop getting 3-2 counts when you are ahead 0-2
    f) Shaking off the catcher every pitch (bad habit)
    g) Get his confidence back
    h) He stops being in denial of how bad he has been

    I wouldn’t trust this guy as the bridge to MO. Didn’t David Robertson prove himself last season? Wasn’t he getting important outs in the postseason? What am I missing? Why is Jobber better suited for the 8th inning than Robertson? Why, Because Jobber pitched good in this spot 3 years when he was throwing 96mph, had a nasty slider, actually attacked hitters, and could locate the strike zone….

  162. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    “Using Hughes as a one inning set up guy significantly hampered their capacity to respond to injuries in the starting rotation.

    People are forgetting this because they won last year.”

    Not forgetting it at all. I’d in fact use it. USE it as evidence that “hampered” is a relative term.

    One of the “responses” resulted in the Yankees winning every game he started. That’s not good enough?

    What you’re doing is removing the result (what actually happened last year) and suggesting it be tossed out in favor of an ideal – a notion – that the Yankees be fully prepared have 6 or 7 starters of 3rd starter or better quality at the ready.

    That’s a myth – a fantasy in the major leagues. Heck, just the other day Fangraphs did a pretty good job demonstrating how there really is no such thing as a 5th starter in the major leagues.

    I can’t argue that it would be good to more options at 6-7 than most teams at 2-3, it’s just not realistic, and you can also question the necessity, by yes, factoring in the results of last year. It’s demonstrative.

  163. Nick in SF March 23rd, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Ben Linus, is that you?

  164. Bronx Jeers March 23rd, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    I think Torre’s NYY legacy will improve over time with the younger fans.

    Remember, they have no real swoon to compare his tenure to and I guess they don’t realize the significance of what he accomplished here.

    How is he regarded out in SoCal? I’d guess that they love him.

    I’m really pulling hard for the Dodgers this year. 15 straight post seasons? That’s quite an achievement.

  165. Coach6423 March 23rd, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    So how does sticking Joba in the pen make the Yankees starting pitching depth any deeper?

  166. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Nick,

    Yes.

  167. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 23rd, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    “I have my Scranton jersey!!!!!!!!!!
    And Kei Igawa bubblehead :lol:”

    No one trades the Scranton leader in wins, no one.

    He will soon prove us all wrong. :x

  168. CB March 23rd, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    “So how does sticking Joba in the pen make the Yankees starting pitching depth any deeper?”

    It only could if they don’t use him as the traditional “bridge” to Mo in a one inning set up role.

    If they let him throw 2-3 inning stints then if there was an injury to a starter Joba could transition back to the starting rotation in a practical fashion without having to go to the minors to get stretched out.

    If the gets some planned 2-3 inning appearances then if a starter goes down he could throw a 4-5 inning start without much fanfare.

    If he’s only used as a strict 1 inning set up man then he effectively adds almost nothing to their starting pitching depth.

    At the same time, he can’t be used as a traditional “long man” either because they he wouldn’t get enough innings.

    There’s no optimal solution here as one Hughes or Chamberalin aren’t going to start the season in the major league rotation. Given that how do you balance the need to win in 2010, their development and confidence?

    Having the guy who does not make the rotation stay stretched out in the pen in a planned, coordinated fashion may be the best compromise.

  169. GC March 23rd, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    I remember back in 2008 someone in the media floated the idea of a 6 man rotation- Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Kennedy, and Chamberlain- with Mussina as the college-esque “Sunday starter.” I’m wondering why this idea hasn’t been explored whatsoever not only in this scenario but for any teams flooding with pitching depth throughout baseball.

    Doing so would prevent the organization from having to make a career-altering, and possibly career-killing, decision that needlessly and unnecessarily wastes a 4 pitch starting pitcher in the most vastly overrated role in baseball, the “bridge to Mo.” It would keep Sabathia, who has been worked like Secretariat over the past 3 years, fresh and ready for October, and using Pettitte as the “Sunday starter” would offer him the kind of consistency and regimentation that he demands. Hughes and Joba both get their reps as starters.

    It obviously wouldn’t be feasible with all the off days in April, but come May, I really can’t understand why this idea hasn’t been explored. It isn’t as if any one other than Sabathia is head and shoulders better than any of Pettitte, Burnett, Hughes, Vazquez, or Chamberlain. It would hardly surprise me to see all five of those guys put up comparable statistics over a full season and thus would be no crime to take a couple of reps away from each of them.

  170. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    “I think Torre’s NYY legacy will improve over time with the younger fans.

    Remember, they have no real swoon to compare his tenure to and I guess they don’t realize the significance of what he accomplished here. ”

    Yeah, and on the opposite side of the tracks, the young generation of Yankee fans will be hysterical when they have to get used to what even a good ML closer not named Mariano Rivera is.

    Just imagine the hand-wringing that’s going to take place when people who are used to nothing but Rivera have to deal with reality.

    Not a matter of if, but when. It’s going to be epic.

  171. Nick in SF March 23rd, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    stuckey: yes to which question?

  172. blake March 23rd, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    The key to all of this is to arrange it so that the 2010 team is given the best chance to win and the possibility that both Joba and Hughes will be in the 2011 rotation is kept in play.

    That’s the balancing act the Yankees have to carry out. Whoever isn’t in the rotation this year needs to be kept on a path that would still allow them to start next year is appropriate.

  173. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    The one predicated on the fact that I’m NOT Ben Linus.

  174. blake March 23rd, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    If appropriate.

  175. blake March 23rd, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Are you the smoke monster?

  176. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 23rd, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Is anyone else getting a message from the site that its trying to connect to facebook???

  177. Pat M. March 23rd, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    CB, Remember the piggy-back concept from a few years ago….Hughes-Joba /// Joba-Hughes

  178. Richard Alpert Episode TONIGHT! March 23rd, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    The 6 man rotation is a horrible, horrible idea.. These guys need to pitch every 5th day unless there is an off day/injury, etc. These guys are conditioned to pitch on a schedule and to do what you are suggesting would just be wrong and unconventional.

    We didn’t shell out huge contracts to CC or AJ so they can pitch once a week.. We didn’t pay CC to be the ACE of the staff so he can “rest” during the season. These guys just had 3 months off and with the money the Yankees are paying them, they should pitch until they can’t pitch. Plus CC needs about 8 games into the season before he even finds his form.

    Bottom line is these guys need to pitch throughout the season because they need their regular work. I don’t know if you noticed or not, but Boston and Tampa Bay have pretty good teams. You can just throw wins away and shuffle your pitching rotation to give 15 million dollar a year pitchers “rest”/ What if the race is tight in August, should we call up Kei Igawa? This way Andy can have an extra day off?! It’s borderline crazy talk.

    Now if we have a playoff spot locked up in early September and you want to give guys extra rest, THATS when you do it.. Not before and not in May. SMH

  179. Bronx Jeers March 23rd, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    True Stuckey,

    Every year we talk about the bridgejumpers that say that Mo has lost it.

    Eventually they’ll be right.

  180. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 23rd, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    “Is anyone else getting a message from the site that its trying to connect to facebook???”

    It’s annoying.

  181. Erin March 23rd, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter
    March 23rd, 2010 at 2:15 pm
    Is anyone else getting a message from the site that its trying to connect to facebook???

    ************************
    Yes

  182. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 23rd, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Brandon Awesome (B/c I’m more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz)
    March 23rd, 2010 at 2:18 pm
    “Is anyone else getting a message from the site that its trying to connect to facebook???”

    It’s annoying.

    **************

    Yes.

    Jeff The IT Guy-

    Please kill that box. Also, facebook is blocked in my office. Trying to connect to it might cause this site to block and then I will need a new job

  183. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 23rd, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    New thread :arrow:

  184. lamar March 23rd, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    new post

  185. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    SJ44
    March 23rd, 2010 at 1:44 pm
    Both Carl Crawford and Cliff Lee are on the Yankees radar.

    If Javy has a big year and they think they can get something done with him, that’s also a possibilty. Which would remove Lee from consideration.

    Crawford is #1 on their off-season hit list.
    ———————–

    I highly doubt that even the Yankees can find it within their limits to sign Crawford and Lee given that they also have to sign Derek, Mo and either Javy or Andy.

    If they deal Joba for one of those top flight young OF I mentioned then there’s no doubt that they don’t get Lee and frankly I would rather have Lee and Sizemore or Lee and Kemp or Lee and Gonzalez than Crawford and Joba in relief.

  186. Matt March 23rd, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    The Rays appear to be the only other team in the AL that can somewhat feel good about their roster entering the start of the 162-game season.
    Boston has several things that must go right and no real depth at the minor league levels to call upon particularly in the area of pitching.

  187. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    For that matter – even if I agree with your theory that this is a one year sidetrack for Joba and he’ll be a starter next year – I would rather have a rotation of:

    CC, Lee, AJ, Javy, Hughes with Kemp, Sizemore or Gonzalez than

    CC, AJ, Javy, Hughes, Joba with Crawford in LF

  188. blake March 23rd, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Chip,
    Couple things.

    1) Andy may retire and they don’t have to re-sign Vasquez.
    2) Joba isn’t going to bring any of those young outfielders you mentioned IMO.

  189. Dewey Finn March 23rd, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    If Girardi is gonna use Hughes spring starts as a better indicator than Joba’s actual starts in the Majors, then I am extremely disappointed in his judgment, and the entire Yankees organization as a whole. A true shame that a kid like Joba will not be given the opportunity to realize his full potential because of the ridiculous pressures from media and unintelligent fans that believe his fist-pumping/screaming automatically puts him in the bullpen. After his 20th start last year (2009), Joba had an ERA of 3.58. Why in god’s name should he be banished to the bullpen??? Because he it a few rough patches in the 2nd half? I just find this extremely infuriating. Oh well. If the consensus is right and Joba is ticketed for the bullpen, I guess we can look forward to Hughes allowed 30+ HRs this year as batters tee off on his 90-91 straight fastball.

    I don’t even want to hear the garbage that Hughes has better stuff to be the starter. His fastball as as a starter in mediocre because its only 90-91 with no movement. Yes I know he was throwing harder in the bullpen, but thats because they can go full throttle for 1 or 2 innings. As a starter, he will be sitting around 90-91, unless he wants to be gassed the 2nd time through the order. Furthermore, Hughes changeup is still developing. He has made good strides, but it is not a plus pitch yet. From my perspective, the only true plus pitch that Hughes currently owns is the nasty curve. In contrast, Joba actually has 4 plus/above average pitches. His fastball is harder than Hughes, his slider is better than Hughes’ curve, and the changeup is much further along that Hughes. Also keep in mind that Joba has a sexy 12-6 curve that he can drop in once in awhile. Yes Joba throws harder in the bullpen, but that can be said for any pitcher and its just a plain stupid argument. As a starter, Joba was consistently in the 92-93 range.

    In this ramble, I am just simply pointing out that anyone that believes that Hughes has better stuff to be a starter than Joba is completely 100% misinformed.

  190. MTS March 23rd, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    “It obviously wouldn’t be feasible with all the off days in April, but come May, I really can’t understand why this idea hasn’t been explored. It isn’t as if any one other than Sabathia is head and shoulders better than any of Pettitte, Burnett, Hughes, Vazquez, or Chamberlain. It would hardly surprise me to see all five of those guys put up comparable statistics over a full season and thus would be no crime to take a couple of reps away from each of them.”

    Maybe CC, Andy, and AJ have been pitching in 5-man rotatations for too many years to expect them to switcth. Also when you expand your rotation, you lose one piece of pitching depth. What happens if two get injured or worse yet three? A six man rotation is an awfull idea.

  191. ko March 23rd, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    Mitre and Park are retreads for whom it will be a shock if they last to mid season. The outfield, outside of Granderson, would fit better in AAA. Swisher is trying to adjust his swing to have a shot at being a decent hitter. Usually guys who cut down on their stride end up losing most of their power.

  192. ProfessorG March 23rd, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    Thames has shown us nothing in the spring and Detroit obviously saw not enough to keep him. Him being on the roster is all hunch with nothing to back it up kind of like Mondesi. I guess Winn’s poor performance this spring is also a reason we’re keeping Thames. I frankly don’t feel too good about any
    of these guys as a OF backup. At least Hoffman was capable of stellar ‘D.’ Let’s hope our core 3 stay healthy.

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