The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Looking for a surprise

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 23, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Aside from the 25 players who seem to be favorites for the Opening Day roster, there are still 14 others in big league camp with the Yankees. Could any of these play their way onto the roster?

Jonathan Albaladejo
Right-handed reliever
Two straight seasons on the opening day roster, but that trend will probably come to an end this spring. He’s really struggled with a sinker that hasn’t sunk. On the roster? On his way to Scranton to get things worked out. He was pitching very well at the end of last season.

Chad Gaudin
Right-handed pitcher
Might be on waivers, but he’s still in camp. Pitched well for the Yankees last season, but he seems to have been passed by Sergio Mitre. On the roster? It obviously doesn’t look good.

Greg Golson
Center fielder
He’s on the 40-man and he’s had a nice spring — .300/.364/.550 with plus speed and defense — but he has yet to prove himself as a consistent hitter in the minor leagues. On the roster? More likely in Scranton trying to prove himself with the bat.

Boone Logan
Left-handed reliever
Joe Girardi seems to view a second lefty as a luxury, not a necessity. Logan has an option remaining, so he can be sent to Triple-A. That’s probably not good news for him. He has pitched well, though. On the roster? Not if the Yankees plan to keep the four remaining fifth-starter candidates.

Mark Melancon
Right-handed reliever
One rocky outing, but otherwise he’s been solid this spring. The Chan Ho Park signing probably crowded out any chances he had of breaking camp with the big league club. On the roster? Not now. Check back in June.

Juan Miranda
First baseman
Remember when the Yankees signed Nick Johnson? That was the day Miranda was bumped out of the big league mix. He’s insurance at this point. On the roster? Not as long as Johnson is healthy.

P.J. Pilittere
Catcher
In camp to help handle the extra pitchers but has almost no chance of breaking camp with the team. Needs a chance to play regularly at Triple-A, but obviously Jesus Montero stands in the way. On the roster? A simple, no.

Mike Rivera
Catcher
Veteran depth behind the plate, Rivera is around as insurance. He’s clearly behind Francisco Cervelli, and his .125 spring average probably hasn’t helped. On the roster? Not unless someone gets hurt.

Royce Ring
Left-handed reliever
Another pitcher who has done well this spring but seems crowded out of the bullpen. Even if the Yankees were to carry a second left, Logan might be the better bet. On the roster? Probably battling Logan for a call-up from Scranton.

Kevin Russo
Infielder
He’s a polished hitter, and he’s proven that this spring, but his limited experience at shortstop and in the outfield leaves him as a tough fit for the Yankees. On the roster? Probably not on Opening Day, but keep an eye on his Scranton numbers.

Amaury Sanit
Right-handed reliever
I’ll be perfectly honest: I was surprised Sanit even got a big league invite, but the Yankees clearly saw some things and he’s proven worth the spot with a terrific spring. He won’t break camp with New York, but if he keeps this up he could push for a call-up. On the roster? No, but made a more compelling case than expected.

Zack Segovia
Right-handed reliever
Minor league veteran was signed to a minor league deal this winter. He’s been solid this spring, but he’s pretty far down on the depth chart. On the roster? It’s a bit difficult to even find a spot for him in Scranton.

Jon Weber
Outfielder
Not at all flashy, but the guy knows how to hit and he’s shown it time and again this spring. Being left-handed takes his slim chances and makes them almost nil. On the roster? No. But he might have opened some eyes.

David Winfree
Outfielder
One of the more interesting minor league free agent signings, Winfree is still just 24 and has shown good power. The Yankees say he’s competing for a bench role, but it’s hard to see that happening with Thames in the mix. On the roster? Might be the only guy who could give Thames a challenge, but it still seems unlikely. Mid-season replacement? Very possible.

 
 

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174 Responses to “Looking for a surprise”

  1. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 23rd, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Jeff the IT Guy-

    PLEASE kill this Facebook pop up

  2. pat March 23rd, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    Ditto what Erica said. The page won’t fully load for me since it showed up. :sad:

  3. Erin March 23rd, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter
    March 23rd, 2010 at 2:26 pm
    Jeff the IT Guy-

    PLEASE kill this Facebook pop up

    *************************
    I second this!!

  4. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Why is Albaladejo even still in camp? He’s just awful – and I used to like him.

  5. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Chad, nice summary – thanks! I’m hoping Golson and Winfree can turn into useful players for us. Logan and Ring have pitched well; I’m glad they can go to AAA where we can call them back up if we need them.

  6. GC March 23rd, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    In regards to my six man rotation idea and the counter argument that was posed, I happen to think its more important that both Phil and Joba get reps as starters this year as it is that Sabathia makes 35 starts instead of 29. The first scenario allows the Yankees to confidently avoid shelling out 100 + million dollars for a starting pitcher next year when Andy (and perhaps Vazquez himself) hang up their cleats.

    I’m no pitcher, but what makes pitching on five days rest consistently any different than pitching on four days rest consistently? You alter their throwing schedules (I would hope this is something Eiland, who has really disappointed me as a pitching coach so far, is capable of doing) and every sixth day becomes routine instead of every fifth day.

    It’ll never happen, but its something that I think would have been worthy of exploring. I can’t explain to you how devastating I believe it will be for one of Phil or Joba to spend this year in the bullpen, particularly for Joba after the machinations he went through last year.

  7. Matt March 23rd, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    The Rays appear to be the only other team in the AL that can somewhat feel good about their roster entering the start of the 162-game season.
    Boston has several things that must go right and unlike the Yankees and to some degree the Rays, have no real depth at the minor league levels to call upon particularly in the area of pitching.

  8. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Yep, that thing is annoying…

  9. S.A.--Relax, Relate, Release March 23rd, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    The annoying Facebook pop up needs to go. Now

  10. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    You don’t set your roster around the kids needs in the rotation.

    Veteran pitchers have routines and you don’t mess with them.

    In other words, what CC, AJ, Javy and Andy like best, is what you do.

    Those guys get out of turn with a six man rotation. Which is why it’s not on the table.

  11. Yankees29in2011 March 23rd, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    When is the Albaladejo experience officially going to come to an end?

    That day will call for celebrations

    :)

  12. Yankees29in2011 March 23rd, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    YES! The Facebook popup NEEDS TO GO!

  13. blake March 23rd, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    GC, short answer. Those 6 games CC doesn’t start could cost you the division.

  14. Warning Track Power March 23rd, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    Chad-Great job breaking it down for all of us.
    Miranda has really impressed me this spring. He is a great insurance policy in case Johnson lands on the DL this year. I like his glove and his bat very much. Obviously he’s far behind Tex, but as a back-up, someday he might be valuable to the Yankees winning.

  15. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Three things:

    1. Why is this stupid site trying to force me to connect it to Facebook?

    2. If Albaladejo makes the roster I would not only be shocked I would be very concerned because of how many pitchers must have gotten hurt in the last week in spring training.

    3. I posted this on the last thread:

    There are some who think that Joba to the pen is just a sidetrack and next year he’ll be in the rotation – I don’t buy that at all – I think if he’s in the pen this year he’s in the pen for good. But even if I did believe that the Yankees would consider making him a starter again I would still consider trading him.

    Think about it this way – with Jeter, Mo and Javy all free agents I don’t see how the Yankees can bring in both Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford next winter. With that in mind I would consider moving Chamberlain for a premium outfielder (Sizemore, Kemp, Carlos Gonzalez type) and then Cashman can focus fully on bringing in Cliff Lee. Even if Joba were to go back to the rotation, wouldn’t you rather have one of those guys in the outfield with a rotation of CC, Lee, Javy, AJ and Hughes than Crawford in LF with CC, AJ, Javy, Joba and Hughes?

    Francesa is talking right now about how the Yankees are going to phase Joba into the closer’s role, but the problem with that is that Mariano’s likely not going anywhere for the next two or three years. So that’s two or three years of Joba in the 8th inning role. By the time Rivera retires the Yankees can bring along someone else to take over for Rivera, whether that’s Andrew Brackman, Mark Melancon, Chris Garcia or someone else entirely.

  16. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 23rd, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    I think the complaints work-

    The facebook pop-up is gone for now.

    Hopefully never to return!!!!!!!!!!

    That was awful :evil:

  17. Wave Your Hat March 23rd, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    In theory pitching Joba 2-3 innings per start to build up his innings is an interesting idea, but it is no longer the conventional thing to do, and I do not see the Yankees, of all teams, doing it. If Joba starts in the pen, and I believe he will, it will be for one inning segments.

  18. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Yeah, Eiland has done a terrible job.

    Has developed young arms for the pen. Turned CC’s season around last year by changing the grips on his two seamer and changeup, and got Andy working both halves of the plate again.

    BTW, they won the WS with a three man rotation. No small feat for a pitching coach to prepare a staff to do.

    I hope he is such a “disappointment” again this year.

  19. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 23rd, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Thank god that FACEBOOK thing is gone.

    I was about to get ghetto on someone. :evil:

  20. Richard Alpert Episode TONIGHT! March 23rd, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    “I’m no pitcher, but what makes pitching on five days rest consistently any different than pitching on four days rest consistently? You alter their throwing schedules (I would hope this is something Eiland, who has really disappointed me as a pitching coach so far, is capable of doing) and every sixth day becomes routine instead of every fifth day.”

    Well for starters, these guys (CC, AJ, Andy) are vets who have been in the majors and have a set schedule. To change that (which would never happen, but for argument sake) now, 2 weeks before the season, makes no sense.

    It would be like you working a regular M-F 9-5 job and then all of a sudden your boss tells you that you can have Fridays off but need to come in on Saturdays.

  21. Richard Alpert Episode TONIGHT! March 23rd, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    BTW – How is Dave Eiland a bad pitching coach? Did you even watch this team last year?

  22. Wave Your Hat March 23rd, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    I meant per relief appearance, not per start, of course.

  23. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    I know that the Yankees and Mets would never make a deal of this magnitude, but Joel Sherman blogged that he wonders if the Mets will move F-Mart for a starting pitcher.

    Would anyone consider Joba for F-Mart?

    The Mets would immediately put Joba into the rotation as their number 3 pitcher and the Yankees would have a high impact LF for the next 7 years.

  24. SteveB March 23rd, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    If it wasn’t for a bum hammy, last year’s infield callup would probably have been Kevin Russo instead of Pena. Just goes to show how ‘right place/right time’ can work against you sometimes.

  25. pat March 23rd, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Thanks Jeff!

  26. SteveB March 23rd, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Chip
    March 23rd, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    I know that the Yankees and Mets would never make a deal of this magnitude, but Joel Sherman blogged that he wonders if the Mets will move F-Mart for a starting pitcher.
    Would anyone consider Joba for F-Mart?
    —————————————————-

    Chipster, sit down and put a wet rag across your forehead. The feeling will pass shortly.

  27. Erin March 23rd, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Thanks for making the Facebook pop up go away!! :)

  28. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Chip, you’re argument is reliant upon many conditions to make sense.

    1.) That Chamberlain can bring back one of those outfielders.

    2.) That Chamberlain won’t or can’t develop into an elite starter.

    3.) That the Yankees will be limited to pursuing just one free agent next off-season.

    It’s easy to make up a world and govern the rules of the world.

    The question is – how likely is it that reality reflects all three of your conditions coming to pass?

  29. blake March 23rd, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Chip,
    1) Andy may retire and they don’t have to re-sign Javy.

    2)Joba isn’t going to bring any of those young OFers you suggested IMO.

  30. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Ramiro Pena strikes me as a better option for a utility IF anyway.

    He’s a better defensive player up the middle and even though he’s not the hitter Russo is he’s not an automatic out either.

    I still think it would behoove the Yankees to move Eduardo Nunez to the OF.

    And I agree with Chad – if Thames has a bad start to the year and if Winfree produces in AAA I could see the Yankees swapping those two guys.

    I also think that Colin Curtis may be the first OF to get the call up if either a corner guy or Nick Johnson go down. The stroke he showed this spring (and in the winter league) would make him very interesting in Yankee Stadium.

  31. Frank March 23rd, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    “Would anyone consider Joba for F-Mart?”

    Nope. If they were ever to trade Joba, the return should at least be a proven MLB player.

  32. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    I don’t know who said Eiland is a bad pitching coach, but whoever did, I direct him to NYYfans where he will find like-minded people. I do not get it. Actually, NYYFans blamed Eiland for CC’s struggles early last year – his lack of strikeouts, etc… I think for some reason Eiland is supposed to work miracles with two extremely talented but somewhat raw kids? Phil has had his injuries – NOT Eiland’s fault. I have no idea what to say to people who cry about some video (as was posted on NYYFans today) of Phil in 2006 showing him as they wish he was now. It’s as if what Phil is now and what he could be isn’t good enough. Eiland must have ruined him. I admit that there have been plenty of people who swore they saw Phil throw 95-96 consistently, so if that’s the case, then no – I don’t know what happened. That said, I don’t know that’s the case. Joba’s issues were mostly caused by Joba and bad luck with the tendonitis. Poor Eiland – sheesh.

  33. Richard Alpert Episode TONIGHT! March 23rd, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    I know that the Yankees and Mets would never make a deal of this magnitude, but Joel Sherman blogged that he wonders if the Mets will move F-Mart for a starting pitcher.

    Would anyone consider Joba for F-Mart?

    The Mets would immediately put Joba into the rotation as their number 3 pitcher and the Yankees would have a high impact LF for the next 7 years.

    _______________

    As down as I am on Jobber, no way you do that deal if you are the Yankees.. They wouldn’t give Joba up for Johan or Roy but we should swap him for a 20 year old CF (Which BTW, FMart is a CF and last time I checked, we just traded for one) Corner outfielders are a dime a dozen and as trashy as Joba has been the last year, I still wouldn’t trade him for F-Mart.. Did April Fools Day get moved up a week? Jeez today !

    Yes I am Ben Linus but tonight is special, thus the name change.. Enjoy it tonight for all of you who watch and know what the heck I’m referring to!

  34. Patrick March 23rd, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    CB,

    I like your idea for Joba’s role this year but I think it would be very hard for the Yankees to implement.

    We both know that they can’t plan their pitching around what would be best for Joba. Girardi has to use his pen based on game situations, there won’t always be a consistent need for a 2-3 inning reliever.

    It would be great if Joba could be the sixth starter while at the same time getting 2-3 inning appearances in between. I just don’t know if it is possible, especially considering his injury history. The Yanks might not want to take the chance that this kind of role will hurt him.

    I’m not saying your proposed idea isn’t possible, just that it will be hard for the Yankees to follow through with it, if they decide to go that direction.

  35. SteveB March 23rd, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    Pena always had that glove, but it’s his hitting that surprises me. Last season I kept waiting for him to look overmatched at the plate, but he never did and still looks good enough to stick in the majors.

    On the OF– last thing I’ll worry about is the 5th outfielder. That’ll shake out soon enough. The Yankees are putting together a World Series roster again this year.

  36. Jerkface March 23rd, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    Don’t let anyone lying about Hughes’ velocity get to you. Hughes himself said he never sat 95-96. I think there was one start late in the minor leagues, which might have been a playoff game, where he sat 93-94 and hit 97, but he was probably just amped up.

    The real Hughes is a 92-94 command/control beast

  37. Patrick March 23rd, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    “Would anyone consider Joba for F-Mart?”

    Absolutely, but this deal would never get done.

  38. rbj March 23rd, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    “On the roster? Not as long as Johnson is healthy.”

    Ah, so Miranda will be on the roster by June.

  39. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    realistically, yanks No. 5 spot is down to hughes (the favorite) and sergio mitre. joba appears ticketed for pen.

    ___

    did i miss where joba lost?

  40. Erin March 23rd, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    SI_JonHeyman realistically, yanks No. 5 spot is down to hughes (the favorite) and sergio mitre. joba appears ticketed for pen. 8 minutes ago

    Does Heyman actually think Mitre has a shot??? 8O

  41. Jerkface March 23rd, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    If its Hughes v Sergio this is going to be the most lopsided competition in history. I don’t believe Haybrain though.

  42. Wave Your Hat March 23rd, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    I think Joba needs to succeed in order for him to have success.

    To do that, the Yanks need to let him focus on one thing. Use him in relief the way the Yanks did Phil last year.

    Don’t jerk him back and forth between starting and relieving. Let him be the set-up guy or at most pitch inning 7 and go on to the 8th if he is pitching well.

  43. ADam March 23rd, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Would rather have a second lefty out of the pen.. adds more flexibility, and i really dislike having the one “long guy” out of the pen.. i think it actually limits the pen.. But as we know guys will be up and down all year..

  44. Jay March 23rd, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    “We both know that they can’t plan their pitching around what would be best for Joba. Girardi has to use his pen based on game situations, there won’t always be a consistent need for a 2-3 inning reliever. ”

    Bingo. It is easy to say that Joba has to pitch 100 innings out of the pen, but it is not so easy to implement when you have to win games and can’t just manufacture the innings for him.

    Girardi has to use Joba in the best way to win AND have his long term HEALTH in mind.

  45. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Jerkface, I must move in the wrong company,lol. For some of these folks, 92-94 isn’t good enough – and it’s not a flat, 92-94 either. People are up in arms about Phil’s lack of velocity right now – even though he’s said before it takes him awhile to get going. The point is, they thought Eiland ruined Phil, but then that could be the quirk of just one message board. For all I know, other Yankee fans disagree with that.

  46. Keep it March 23rd, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Phil needs to learn a sinker, ASAP.

  47. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    No way would I trade Joba for Martinez (who’s not good enough to have a nick-name like that, lol). Let’s see, the kid is having a good ST so trade high-end talent like Joba for him? No thank you.

  48. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    if joba loses the starting role and is the permanent 8th inning guy, does anyone see him leaving the yankees when he his FA instead of replacing rivera?

  49. Patrick March 23rd, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Betsy,

    I’ve read some of the analysis of Hughes over at NYYfans before I realized that the majority of the people there are morons. Some fans get insane about Phil. I think it’s because he’s the first legit prospect we’ve had in a long time.

  50. I like Inge March 23rd, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Sinker? That’s five pitches… He doesn’t need that many. Plus, his cutter can produce ground balls.

  51. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Stuckey

    1. I don’t know that Joba alone could bring back one of those guys anymore – but Joba and Romine for Sizemore or Kemp are deals I would make in a heart beat (considering the Yankees have Montero ahead of Romine and three other promising catchers right behind him)

    2. If Joba is in the pen this year I find it highly unlikely he will ever start again for the Yankees. Even if he did, I don’t know that he’ll ever be as good as Cliff Lee is.

    3. Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Javy Vazquez are all free agents. Figure Jeter gets at least 4 years $25 mil per, Rivera gets $15 and Vaz gets $10 – $15 per year. That’s about $50 mil for those three players.

    Now if we figure that Carl Crawford is going to get Matt Holliday type money $17 mil per and that Cliff Lee will get at least Lackey type money $16 mil per (at the low end) I just don’t see the Yankees spending nearly $90 mil on five players next season.

    That would represent a drastic departure from Hal and Cashman’s stated desire to get the payroll under $200 mil.

    Just to give an example – if the Yankees were tomorrow to trade Joba and Romine for Sizemore the team this year would be:

    Jeter
    Sizemore – CF
    Tex
    Alex
    Cano
    Posada
    Granderson – LF
    Johnson
    Swisher

    With Chan Ho or Robertson and Marte representing the bridge to Mo. The Yankee lineup goes from having a combo of Winn and Gardner to having a player like Grady Sizemore and the drop off in the 8th inning isn’t that significant.

    the year after that the rotation would be:

    CC, Lee, AJ, Javy, Hughes with a similar lineup

  52. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Wow, Heyman…….is he kidding?

  53. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    “I think Joba needs to succeed in order for him to have success. ”

    If anyone even tries to argue with this logic, you’re going to have to go through me!!!!!

    :-)

  54. Pat M. March 23rd, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    This whole 5th starter situation has been an exercise in Yankee window dressing…….It’s been Phil Hughes the entire time….Joba was delegated to the pen the moment Cashman acquired Javy Vasquez….

  55. Patrick March 23rd, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    F-Mart is a top prospect, he will be a great player in this league…

    If Joba is just a reliever, getting F-Mart for him is a good deal.

    That being said, I would prefer the Yankees don’t trade Chamberlain right now. Unless they can get Choo or something :)

  56. Ez Rep March 23rd, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Does Joba even have it in him physically to handle a 100 inning workload out of the pen?

  57. Kramer March 23rd, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    “did i miss where joba lost?”

    If you didn’t see Joba letting Jamie Hoffman go 2-3 while Phil was striking out the NL Champs yesterday than yeah, you missed it. :wink:

  58. Keep it March 23rd, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    It was a joke. To go along with the “Mitre vs Hughes” Heyman tweet that someone posted.

  59. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Wave,

    Bingo!

    That’s the only way Joba gets back to what he was.

    To me, you put him in the pen, have him focus and empty the tank in every outing, and go from there.

    Nothing worse than watching him labor, shakeoff catchers and struggle in his starts last year.

    Go back to the pen, get your aggressiveness and swagger back, have success, and go from there.

    Bouncing him back and forth during the season would be the worst thing they can do.

    Less is always more with Joba. The less he has to think about, the more effective he is.

  60. Patrick March 23rd, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    “2. If Joba is in the pen this year I find it highly unlikely he will ever start again for the Yankees. Even if he did, I don’t know that he’ll ever be as good as Cliff Lee is. ”

    Why? Hughes was in the pen all last year and he’s the favorite to be the fifth starter this year.

    And why can’t the Yankees put Joba in the pen and sign Lee?

  61. John in Ohio March 23rd, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    I was really hoping this would be the year Melancon would get his shot. Maybe at some point.

  62. Erin March 23rd, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Keep it
    March 23rd, 2010 at 2:59 pm
    Phil needs to learn a sinker, ASAP.

    ****************************

    :lol:

  63. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Patrick, I think you’re right……They feel let down by Phil, I think. I don’t expect everyone to like Phil as much as I do, but that board is really pro-Joba. I sort of called them out on it because it’s true – I really don’t think they want the best man to win. They want Joba to win…because he has more dominant stuff. I just think they don’t believe Phil has a high ceiling anymore, to be honest. There’s one poster who really dislikes Phil as a pitcher; I’ve never seen anything like it.

  64. Patrick March 23rd, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Err meant to say “put Joba in the rotation and sign Lee.”

  65. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Javy Vazquez are all free agents. Figure Jeter gets at least 4 years $25 mil per, Rivera gets $15 and Vaz gets $10 – $15 per year. That’s about $50 mil for those three players

    ____

    jeter wont get 25m/year. and the yankees will likely try to get rivera down to 10m instead of 15 he has now. they dont want to keep javy when they will probably go after cliff lee. Plus, take away pettitte’s 11m since he is getting closer and closer to retirement.

  66. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    If Phil doesn’t have 10 pitches, then he’ll never succeed; he needs to learn a knuckleball.

  67. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    If you didn’t see Joba letting Jamie Hoffman go 2-3 while Phil was striking out the NL Champs yesterday than yeah, you missed it.

    ___

    I saw Phil give up 3 homeruns. Hughes gets Ks, but he is giving up way too many homeruns, and he pitches in yankee stadium.

  68. MTU (aka GBURL) March 23rd, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    I would laugh myself silly if Mitre were # 5 and PH and JC wound up in the pen. The ultimate Solominic solution.

    Which young guy is our starter, Phil or Joba ?

    Answer:

    Neither.

    What a hoot that would be. :)

  69. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Why? Hughes was in the pen all last year and he’s the favorite to be the fifth starter this year.

    Because I can’t imagine the Yankees going through this all over again with Joba a year from now.

    They have other starter options (both internal and external)

    As for why the Yankees can’t put Joba in the pen and sign Lee – I never said they couldn’t. As I said though, I think making Joba a long term 8th inning guy ala Joel Zumaya, Aaron Heilman, Jeff Nelson, would be a waste of his value.

    Teams can find arms to pitch the 8th inning, especially teams like the Yankees. If they’re just going to stick him there until Mariano retires then I say move Joba for something the Yankees need.

  70. Tom B - March 23rd, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    You have all lost your minds, I can’t even read through the entire comments section anymore.

  71. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    If Hughes can go from the bullpen to rotation, why can’t Joba?

    The Indians have Carlos Santana, one of the best catching prospects in baseball. They have no interest in trading Sizemore.

    If they did, that package is way short.

    Chip,

    The Yankees have no interest in trading Joba.

    They have a greater interest getting him back to what he was.

  72. Erin March 23rd, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    I am having the worst luck today-I’ve given myself four paper cuts. I’m going to run out of Band-Aids at the rate I’m going. lol

  73. CB March 23rd, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    “I’m not saying your proposed idea isn’t possible, just that it will be hard for the Yankees to follow through with it, if they decide to go that direction.”

    It would be difficult if they didn’t have an otherwise stacked bull pen with Dave Robertson in it and you didn’t have a real strategic need to rest the rotation after a long 2009 season and rest Mo due to age and injury concern.

    Their pen is going to be very good whether or not Joba or Hughes are in it. That gives them flexibility on how either Joba or Hughes can be used in the pen.

    The main “difficulty” this would pose is the pull a guy like Pettitte an inning early so that Joba could throw the 7th and 8th or even 6th, 7th and 8th or to let Joba pitch the 8th and 9th rather than only the 8th so that you can get him extra innings while conserving Pettitte and/ or Mo.

    On other game days you use Roberstson to set up with Marte and Park to fill in the 7nth and matchups in the 8th.

    Using Joba in this way would help increase their overall chances of winning the world series in 2010, IMO. It’s not infrequent for pitchers whose teams win the world series to struggle the next year.

    The fewer innings and appearances Mo, Pettite, Burnett and even CC need to make this year the better.

    It’s very doable, but it requires a different model for thinking about how to distribute innings and it requires trust in Robertson.

    I also agree that it’s unlikely to be the way they go. They’ll probably stick to the conventional roles in the pen.

  74. Tom in NJ March 23rd, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Put both Joba and Hughes in the bullpen!

    It’ll be like Goose and Sparky in ’78!

  75. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    “There’s one poster who really dislikes Phil as a pitcher; I’ve never seen anything like it.”

    And here I was thinking I see lots of people make rash, reactionary wholesale evaluations on players like Gardner, Winn, Mitre, Chamberlain, Melancon and Aceves around here all the time…

  76. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    2 of the 3 were wind blown ST home runs.

    He threw the ball better yesterday than he had all Spring.

    Threw it well enough to please his manager, which is what matters.

  77. Tom B - March 23rd, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    anyone that thinks the people that post here are better/smarter/whatever than some other site are walking through life with blinders on.

  78. Rocco March 23rd, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    “I saw Phil give up 3 homeruns. Hughes gets Ks, but he is giving up way too many homeruns, and he pitches in yankee stadium.”

    I was at the game and there was a pretty strong, steady wind blowing out to right field. The homerun to left was legit, but the other 2 were definitely aided by the wind.

  79. CB March 23rd, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    “To do that, the Yanks need to let him focus on one thing. Use him in relief the way the Yanks did Phil last year.”

    That’s a valid argument. In that case the idea of moving Joba into the rotation should an injury occur should not be entertained.

    Which makes Aceves or Mitre the 6th starter.

  80. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    2 of the 3 were wind blown ST home runs.

    ____

    As opposed to YS that holds everything in the park?

  81. Bronx Jeers March 23rd, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    Put both Joba and Hughes in the bullpen!

    It’ll be like Goose and Sparky in ‘78!

    ———————————————————-

    More like Sparky & Sparky as Mariano is Goose.

    And Aceves is Dick Tidrow.

  82. Eric March 23rd, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Aceves has back issues – he can’t start anymore.

    Mitre is awful. A good spring means nothing. Gaudin was the perfect #5/fill-in starter. He has actually done decently in the majors, unlike Mitre.

    With Gaudin gone, our #6 starter is up in the air. McAllister? Nova?

  83. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    jeter wont get 25m/year. and the yankees will likely try to get rivera down to 10m instead of 15 he has now. they dont want to keep javy when they will probably go after cliff lee. Plus, take away pettitte’s 11m since he is getting closer and closer to retirement.

    1. Jeter will absolutely get $25 per year. It’s going to be hard enough to get him for less than what they’re paying Alex, but there’s no way that Derek isn’t at least the second highest paid Yankee.

    2. Just as I think they’ll basically give Derek a blank check, I think Mo gets the same.

    3. If Javy pitches well, they’ll bring him back. Remember, he’s a horse that doesn’t walk anyone – two things the Yankees highly value.

    4. Andy’s 11 mil will help pay for Lee.

    Again, I’m just saying that I don’t see the Yankees being able to cover both Crawford and Lee.

    If I have to pick between them I would rather have Cliff Lee than Carl Crawford because starters are more important than outfielders.

    With that said, if I can deal Joba for an outfielder who is comparable to Crawford then that does two things:

    1. It upgrades from Winn/Gardner this year and going forward

    2. It frees the Yankees up to focus on Cliff Lee and put together a tremendous rotation of:

    CC, Lee, AJ, Javy and Hughes.

  84. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    I was at the game and there was a pretty strong, steady wind blowing out to right field. The homerun to left was legit, but the other 2 were definitely aided by the wind.

    ___

    Again, RF at Yankee Stadium is no different. Pop-ups were getting out, especially the first half of the year.

    I like hughes too, but i think moving joba back to the pen makes last year a total waste (for him).

  85. Jason March 23rd, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    Every message board/blog has their idiots. Have you read this place during game threads? Heck, look at the reactions during ST games.

    Don’t think it is fair to paint any place with a brushstroke (except SOSH).

  86. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    Stuckey, I think it’s possible to be critical of a player without being personal about it….or without being over-the-top.

  87. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Jeter and Mo aren’t taking paycuts if they have their usual great years.

    Anybody thinking differently don’t know Jeter and Mo.

  88. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Tex, Phil didn’t exactly get banged around last year at YS (or otherwise). Who cares if he’s given up a few HRs in ST?

  89. Wave Your Hat March 23rd, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    “This whole 5th starter situation has been an exercise in Yankee window dressing…….It’s been Phil Hughes the entire time….Joba was delegated to the pen the moment Cashman acquired Javy Vasquez….”

    Yes, it seems obvious to me that you’re correct. What people sometimes miss is that in sports competitions, some competitors are often more equal than others.

  90. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    . Jeter will absolutely get $25 per year. It’s going to be hard enough to get him for less than what they’re paying Alex, but there’s no way that Derek isn’t at least the second highest paid Yankee.

    2. Just as I think they’ll basically give Derek a blank check, I think Mo gets the same.

    ___

    I agree that having to overpay for lee and crawford will be difficult (since the yankees always have to overpay)

    I really believe Jeter will not be like you think and he will not demand that much. my prediction for jet is 4/80 and rivera 25/2.

    I see rivera being more demanding about $$ than jeter.

    I agree jeter could push the yankees for 25m/year but i dont think he will.

  91. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    Jason, I post at NYYFans, so I like it a lot in some ways.

  92. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    “With that said, if I can deal Joba for an outfielder who is comparable to Crawford then that does two things:”

    You mean an outfielder comparable to Crawford that’s cost controlled, don’t you?

  93. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    SJ44
    March 23rd, 2010 at 3:08 pm
    If Hughes can go from the bullpen to rotation, why can’t Joba?
    The Indians have Carlos Santana, one of the best catching prospects in baseball. They have no interest in trading Sizemore.
    If they did, that package is way short.
    Chip,
    The Yankees have no interest in trading Joba.
    They have a greater interest getting him back to what he was.
    —————————————

    1. I used the Romine + Joba package for Sizemore as an example off the top of my head because I’m looking at Sizemore’s stats right now…focus less on the names, more on the principle.

    2. If the Yankees were convinced that Joba could get back to what he showed as a starter in the minors then they would have handed him the fifth starter job this spring and let him go. It’s his first year without any “Joba Rules.” They spent all this time, went through all this nonsense over the last couple of years to get him to this point and now that he’s at a point where he could start with no absurd restrictions on his innings they shift him back to the pen? That doesn’t strike me as a vote of confidence.

  94. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    Tex, Phil didn’t exactly get banged around last year at YS (or otherwise). Who cares if he’s given up a few HRs in ST?

    __

    you are using this as the difference between him and joba. so one guy was 2-3 vs. joba. he also got 2-3 DPs. He seems to be keeping the ball down more. Hughes didnt get banged around last year, but neither did joba when he was in the pen.

    How was Hughes when he was starting? Not exactly the same as when he was in the pen.

  95. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    But i agree that hughes has start make up and joba has closer makeup. I know how this will end, but i did want to see what Joba could down without limits.

  96. Tom in NJ March 23rd, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Nice Orwell allusion, Wave.

    From the Bronx Zoo to Animal Farm.

  97. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    You mean an outfielder comparable to Crawford that’s cost controlled, don’t you?

    Yes.

  98. Matt March 23rd, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Think about this. A year ago, the Yankees were prepared to enter the season with the likes of Angel Berroa, Cody Ransom, Jonathan Albaladejo, and Jose Veras.

  99. Yanks 97 March 23rd, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    tex’s friend -

    As others have said yesterday, if that were Joba who had that kind of outing yesterday, the reception would not have been nearly as positive as it was for Hughes.

  100. rodg12 March 23rd, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Jeter and Mo aren’t taking paycuts if they have their usual great years.

    Anybody thinking differently don’t know Jeter and Mo.
    *********************
    Meaning Jeter will want at least $21 million or the AAV of 18.9 of his last contract??

  101. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Betsy, I agree. Didn’t know that was a case. You just described people not believing Hughes has a high ceiling and disliking him as a pitcher. You didn’t describe anything personal.

  102. Rishi March 23rd, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    so apparently my facebook was linked to my lohud “profile” – it took a min to go in and change my display name etc, but this looks like the beginnings of registration – I even have a password now :)

  103. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Tex,

    Teixeira makes $22.5 mil per…Jeter’s not going to make less than that.

    This won’t even be a negotiation.

  104. Pat M. March 23rd, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Betsy, Just go back and review the comments during and after the Baltimore fiasco last May….Hughes was toast on this blog, in fact he was gum on the soles of many a pair of shoes ……And it goes back to the Sanatana trade….You’ve taken the hits, and now it’s time for the payoff, because the boy has turned into a man, and his career is ready to blossom……A Star was been born and it starts in 2010…….

  105. Rishi March 23rd, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    except it’s showing my name and not the display name I usually use – need to figure that out

  106. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    SJ44
    March 23rd, 2010 at 3:20 pm
    Jeter and Mo aren’t taking paycuts if they have their usual great years.
    Anybody thinking differently don’t know Jeter and Mo.
    ———————————–

    This is a historic moment – SJ and I agree on something.

    Ballplayers link $ with respect. Derek knows that the Yankees aren’t going to give him more than what Alex makes per year, but he’s certainly going to make sure his contract is the second highest on the team.

    That means more than what Tex makes per year (22.5) so for the sake of round numbers 4 years 100 mil makes sense for both sides.

    Mo is likely going to be alright going year by year and they’ll keep him where his salary has been the last three years.

  107. Rishi March 23rd, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    changing my mind – how do I unlink the two?

  108. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    The negotiation that is coming up that is going to be tricky is Jorge.

    It could get as ugly for the Yankees as the Varitek negotiations got for Boston a couple of years ago.

  109. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Chip,

    that makes no sense. Hughes going to the bullpen got his aggressiveness and confidence back and made him a better pitcher. The same thing can happen to Joba.

    The “concept” is simple. Cleveland has no interest in trading Grady Sizemore. He’s the face of their franchise and isn’t a salary issue.

    They did their salary dumping last year.

    Don’t propose trades off the top of your head.

    Think them through. If you do, you will find some of your trade proposals make little sense for either party.

  110. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    You think Jeter will walk in and say, “i want $25 Million”
    ???

  111. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Stuckey, I do think many fans have given up on Phil (for a variety of reasons), especially at that board. When I say they don’t like him, that’s what I mean. I don’t think they have anything personal against him. It’s just that there is one poster who really refuses to see anything positive about Phil. I don’t take him seriously anymore but it’s kind of a shame. I also try to avoid the Joba and Phil threads as they have become totally unreadable. I can’t deal with anymore conversations about how people wish Phil was who they thought he was or how the Yankees ruined Joba.

  112. Hitman23 March 23rd, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    This just in…Phil working on the Effus Pitch…

  113. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    The negotiation that is coming up that is going to be tricky is Jorge.

    It could get as ugly for the Yankees as the Varitek negotiations got for Boston a couple of years ago

    ____

    Have to agree here. Mo and Jeter have an advantage, there they play positions where the next in line is either not as good or non existent.

    Jorge will start this year and next year he will be DH and backing up Montero. After that, he may not even want to stay. He can go to the Mets and catch there. I like him a lot, but i dont see the yankees giving him what he wants after his contract is up and he has threatened to leave before.

  114. Hitman23 March 23rd, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    This just in…Phil working on Gyro…wait that was lunch.

  115. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Tex, my comment about Phil and the HRs had nothing to do with Joba; I wasn’t even thinking about Joba. The last time out, Phil got a lot of ground balls…….I don’t think it means anything. Joba didn’t K anyone yesterday, or maybe 1, and he faced some fairly weak hitters compared to those Phil faced, yet Phil K’d 6. It doesn’t mean Joba has lost his ability to strike people out. I don’t think people need to worry about Phil becoming homer happy.

  116. William Buckner March 23rd, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    “Aceves has back issues – he can’t start anymore.”

    I thought it was the other way around. Doc’s thought it would be better for him to start instead up and downs of relief?

  117. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Tex, my comment about Phil and the HRs had nothing to do with Joba; I wasn’t even thinking about Joba. The last time out, Phil got a lot of ground balls…….I don’t think it means anything. Joba didn’t K anyone yesterday, or maybe 1, and he faced some fairly weak hitters compared to those Phil faced, yet Phil K’d 6. It doesn’t mean Joba has lost his ability to strike people out. I don’t think people need to worry about Phil becoming homer happy
    ______

    I think Joba should have always been in the pen. And if he is going back there, i hope we see the joba that blew everyone away with 100mph fastballs and the disgusting curveball.

  118. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Pat M, I remember that night – though I was out and didn’t have much time to read the blog that night, I just skimmed it. That was a bad game, but he will have games like that in the future, just like all pitchers do. I think if Phil had been left in the rotation, he would have ended the year as a very good pitcher. He simply has not had the chance (how I curse the injuries he’s suffered, though at the same time being grateful he didn’t hurt his arm) to just go out and pitch. Frankly, he’s been toast to many fans since Santana became available; I do not believe fans have forgiven him for August 2007. His struggles then have imprinted themselves forever in fans’ minds and now he’s just a soft-tossing, low-ceilinged pitcher. Hank didn’t do Phil any favors by practically forcing Cash to offer him to the Twins on a silver platter. People also remember Joba’s great starts more than they do Phil’s. Phil hasn’t had as many, but he has had some – and as recently as last year against Texas.

  119. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    I don’t think so, Chip; Jorge takes what the Yankees offer or else they will be happy to let him go and give the job to Montero.

  120. Rishi March 23rd, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Reema Sanghvi
    March 23rd, 2010 at 3:31 pm
    changing my mind – how do I unlink the two?
    =====================================

    should anyone need to know – i have figured it out :)

  121. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    SJ44
    March 23rd, 2010 at 3:32 pm
    Chip,
    that makes no sense. Hughes going to the bullpen got his aggressiveness and confidence back and made him a better pitcher. The same thing can happen to Joba.
    The “concept” is simple. Cleveland has no interest in trading Grady Sizemore. He’s the face of their franchise and isn’t a salary issue.
    They did their salary dumping last year.
    Don’t propose trades off the top of your head.
    Think them through. If you do, you will find some of your trade proposals make little sense for either party.

    ———————-

    1. The principle to which I was alluding was not that the Yankees could or should trade for Grady Sizemore, but that the Yankees could use Joba as the centerpiece of a trade that would get them I premium outfielder. Obviously you did not understand that.

    If it is easier for you to comprehend then I will post a different suggestion: Joba for Carlos Gonzalez of the Rockies, or Joba and Romine to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp. The names don’t have to be exact so don’t get hung up on them, but the principle is to use Joba as the key component in a trade that brings back a premium outfielder.

    2. Hughes started last season as the team’s 6th starter, was called up to fill in and then went to the pen because he wanted to stay in the majors and offered to relieve in the majors rather than start in the minors.

    Joba was the team’s fifth starter last year and is now being sent to the pen. That’s called a demotion, not a confidence booster. If the Yankees wanted to give Joba a boost of confidence they would have said, “hey, we know these last couple of years have been hard, all the rules, but now the chains are off – you’re our fifth starter, don’t worry about inning limits, just go out there and throw.”

    3. Do me the respect of not telling me what I should and should not post. If you disagree with a suggestion of mine you are more than welcome to say so (as you have) but you have no authority to determine what anyone on this blog should or should not post.

  122. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    I don’t think so, Chip; Jorge takes what the Yankees offer or else they will be happy to let him go and give the job to Montero.

    ___

    montero will have the job anyway. he will be the 2011 starter at catcher unless he gets hurt and misses a lot of time this year.

    I say we see Montero this year if posada goes down for more than a month.

  123. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Tex,

    I don’t think Jeter will even have to ask. I think Cashman will turn to him and say $100 mil over four years and Jeter will say sure and that will be that.

    As for Posada – I agree, barring Montero proving he can’t catch I don’t see any way the Yankees would want to bring Jorge back after his contract expires at the end of next season, but I also don’t see Jorge wanting to retire and as one of the “core four” I think that divorce could get messy.

  124. GreenBeret7 March 23rd, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Jerkface
    March 23rd, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    http://tinyurl.com/ydxjo6s <– this link has the assistant GM of the Twins embarrassing himself. Says he would sign a guy with lots of RBIs over a guy with a high slugging percentage. Probably why they traded for Delmon YOung.

    ————————————————————

    Tommy Herr says Hello and BS to you.

  125. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Tex,

    I don’t think Jeter will even have to ask. I think Cashman will turn to him and say $100 mil over four years and Jeter will say sure and that will be that.

    ___

    god i hope so. no one wants even close to an ugly scene between jeter and the yankees.

    I also predict Posada is a Met after 2011 unless he decided to retire.

  126. GreenBeret7 March 23rd, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    Chip
    March 23rd, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    1. I used the Romine + Joba package for Sizemore as an example off the top of my head because I’m looking at Sizemore’s stats right now…focus less on the names, more on the principle.

    2. If the Yankees were convinced that Joba could get back to what he showed as a starter in the minors then they would have handed him the fifth starter job this spring and let him go. It’s his first year without any “Joba Rules.” They spent all this time, went through all this nonsense over the last couple of years to get him to this point and now that he’s at a point where he could start with no absurd restrictions on his innings they shift him back to the pen? That doesn’t strike me as a vote of confidence.

    ————————————————————

    It had to be off the top of your head. If an idea was inside of your head where it belongs, you’d never have made this statement.

  127. Patrick from CT March 23rd, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    2010 has just started and we’re talking about 2011?
    OK
    Jeter will get 20mil+ for 4-5 years; count on that.
    Mo will get 2 years at 15mil+.
    Crawford will be a Yankee unless BG breaks out.
    The Yankees will sign at least 1 FA starter.

  128. Bronx Jeers March 23rd, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Man I can’t wait for this competition to be over.

    I’m sure there will be one more additional day of griping but people will get over it.

  129. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Tex,

    Mets will likely give their starting job to Josh Thole after this season as they break in all their young guys:

    Thole – C
    Davis – 1b
    Tejada – 2b
    Martinez – RF if they opt to part ways with Frenchy.

    I think Posada’s going to have to stay in the AL because no team is going to want him catching 110 games – they’ll want him to DH some. Maybe the White Sox where AJ is also a free agent would be a fit?

    If he does go to the NL I wouldn’t rule out the Dodgers if Torre stays or if Donnie replaces him.

  130. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    2010 has just started and we’re talking about 2011?

    ___

    i think everyone is tired of talking about hughes v joba and gardner v. everyone else.

    Simple solution would have been not to get randy winn or thames and just paid melky the $2.5 M or so he would have probably gotten in arbitration.

  131. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    GB7 -

    In deference to the fact that you’re an old geezer and probably bitter that your Viagra isn’t working; I’m just going to ignore you rather than trade insults with you.

  132. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Simple solution would have been not to get randy winn or thames and just paid melky the $2.5 M or so he would have probably gotten in arbitration

    Yeah but then no Javy Vazquez.

  133. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    “Stuckey, I do think many fans have given up on Phil (for a variety of reasons), especially at that board. When I say they don’t like him, that’s what I mean. I don’t think they have anything personal against him. ”

    How’s it any different than someone being convinced Gardner is not good?

    Yes, you argue all day about the relative merits of those two particular players I just mentioned and you’d have a good argument – the POINT, however is, if you’re going to make final judgments on player’s abilities based on small sample sizes, how can you criticize others for doing the same.

    I don’t think you can judge Gardner so absolutely and more than I think anyone can judge Hughes so absolutely, is what I’m trying to get you to consider…

  134. SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    The concept that Joba can bring back a player the calibur of Sizemore is absurd.

    That’s hard pressed to happen in fantasy baseball, let alone in the real world.

    It makes more sense for the Yankees to continue to try and develop a 24 year old like Joba than entertain fantasy trade proposals.

  135. MTU (aka GBURL) March 23rd, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    Bronx-

    “Man I can’t wait for this competition to be over.”

    If some people around here are correct maybe it was over before it started. ;)

  136. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    “I’m sure there will be one more additional day of griping but people will get over it”

    Unless the 5th starter struggles, and then it won’t ever end…

  137. upstate kate March 23rd, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Bronx Jeers
    I am afraid the griping will continue on forever, regardless of what happens :)
    We are very lucky to have 2 such wonderful young pitchers.

    Rishi
    I am behind the times, I don’t do facebook

    GB
    how are you? did you get to see the twins yet?

  138. GreenBeret7 March 23rd, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Melky Cabrera wasn’t the big ticket item in that trade. They could have substituted Gardner or another minor leaguer and made that deal. Braves had to move money. They didn’t trade Vazquez because a #4 outfielder was included.

  139. Frank March 23rd, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    “In deference to the fact that you’re an old geezer and probably bitter that your Viagra isn’t working; I’m just going to ignore you rather than trade insults with you”

    You just insulted him 3 times in one sentence then refused to trade insults in the next. You seem torn.

  140. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Stuckey, maybe it’s because I see Gardner as limited in ability whereas I see Phil has having huge upside. However, I can’t really disagree with you. I’ve been harsh on Brett -maybe overly so. I can’t say that I’m enamored with him, but I am willing to have my mind changed. I like him personally and he could be a really dangerous weapon if he can even be a decent hitter, so I’m rooting for him to succeed.

  141. CC Bigs March 23rd, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Who will be named 5th starter? I bet Joba.

  142. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    “If the Yankees were convinced that Joba could get back to what he showed as a starter in the minors then they would have handed him the fifth starter job this spring and let him go.”

    There are multiple holes in this logic.

    Yankees don’t have to be pre-convinced to give him the job to give him the job. That he wasn’t handed the job outright does not mean he can’t be handed the job still.

    And why doesn’t this same logic apply to Phil Hughes? Why wasn’t he handed the job?

  143. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 23rd, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    I’m gonna say this, I wouldn’t trade Joba the SP for Grady Sizemore but Joba the SU man, yeh I would.

  144. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    You just insulted him 3 times in one sentence then refused to trade insults in the next. You seem torn.

    Actually I only insulted him twice – old geezer only counts once.

  145. stuckey March 23rd, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    “You just insulted him 3 times in one sentence then refused to trade insults in the next. You seem torn.”

    I believe that’s called ironic sarcasm, and pretty adept use of it.

  146. Nick in SF March 23rd, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    The true victims of the Joba vs Phil (and vs Sergio, Alfredo, and Chad for you committed delusionists) competition are us, the LoHud commenters.

    A lot of important topics were crowded out of discussion by this 5th starter business.

    Example: what is Melky Mesa’s true ceiling? I’m holding on to my “got melky?” t-shirt rathing than getting top dollar for it in Atlanta — will it pay off????

  147. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    The concept that Joba can bring back a player the calibur of Sizemore is absurd.

    If a team believes that Joba is still a top three starter and just needs to stop being babied to realize that potential then no, it’s not absurd.

    Make up your mind – in one post Joba’s too valuable to give up on because the Yankees think they can “get him back to where he once was” and now you’re saying he’s not even good enough to bring back a high caliber outfielder…which is it?

  148. Mike from NC March 23rd, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    Not sure how legit this is, but according to this, the Yankees have decided internally that it’ll be Hughes in the 5th slot. I’d take it with a grain of salt.

    http://www.athbaseball.com/201.....-slot.html

  149. GreenBeret7 March 23rd, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    upstate kate
    March 23rd, 2010 at 4:05 pm
    Bronx Jeers
    I am afraid the griping will continue on forever, regardless of what happens
    We are very lucky to have 2 such wonderful young pitchers.

    Rishi
    I am behind the times, I don’t do facebook

    GB
    how are you? did you get to see the twins yet?

    ————————————————————

    Afternoon, Kate. I’m doing pretty good. Thank you for asking. Hope all is well up your way and you finally get some decent dry out weather.

    Morgan has taken the kids on a trip and won’t be back until tomorrow. She’s bringing the little golden diaper kids by so I can see them. It makes for a great birthday present. The best I could ask for. She said that she has trouble with the kids whenever she takes the dog outside and he’s not there to keep them warm or lick their face. Still can’t keep him out of the playpen. That dog is going to follow those kids to school in a couple of years and sit outside the window. They have protection on four legs.

  150. tex's friend March 23rd, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    They didn’t trade Vazquez because a #4 outfielder was included

    ____

    ridiculous that people still call melky the 4th outfielder.

  151. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    I believe that’s called ironic sarcasm, and pretty adept use of it.

    Me, sarcastic? Never.

  152. Patrick from CT March 23rd, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Joba is a Yankee for 2010 and beyond; he’s been vary valuable to the team over parts of 3 seasons.
    Joba is the #5 starter if someone gets hurt early in the season.
    Joba is also Mo’s backup should he get hurt.

  153. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 23rd, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Nick, lol

  154. MTU (aka GBURL) March 23rd, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    GB-

    Happy early Birthday ! :)

  155. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 23rd, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Mike from NC – the people who are rabid about having Hughes as the 5th starter will believe every word, people who want Joba will consider it BS, and those of us who still think the decision is yet to be made will take it with a grain of salt.

    Reading these comments is like Groundhog Day.

  156. Erin March 23rd, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Nick in SF
    March 23rd, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Example: what is Melky Mesa’s true ceiling? I’m holding on to my “got melky?” t-shirt rathing than getting top dollar for it in Atlanta — will it pay off????

    ************************
    LOL

    My brother just told me over the weekend that he can’t bring himself to get rid of his “Got Melky?” T-shirt yet.

  157. GreenBeret7 March 23rd, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    tex’s friend
    March 23rd, 2010 at 4:14 pm
    They didn’t trade Vazquez because a #4 outfielder was included

    ____

    ridiculous that people still call melky the 4th outfielder.

    ————————————————————

    He will be a #4 on that team by the end of May. The Braves need power and Diaz and Heyward will provide that power.

  158. Chip March 23rd, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Patrick,

    Do you really think the Yankees are going to yo-yo Joba between the pen and the rotation based on health of the starters?

    If Joba’s in the pen Sergio Mitre and Alfredo Aceves are the spot starters if someone misses a game or two. If it is longer than that and neither Mitre or Ace are effective they’ll pluck up someone from AAA.

  159. MTU (aka GBURL) March 23rd, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Mike-

    I hope that article is pure BS because it also says that Joba will be in the BP permanently, and that the issue will not be re-visited.

    It better be wrong !

  160. GreenBeret7 March 23rd, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    MTU (aka GBURL)
    March 23rd, 2010 at 4:18 pm
    GB-

    Happy early Birthday !

    ————————————————————

    Thanks, MTU. Nothing like being 21…AGAIN.

  161. MTU (aka GBURL) March 23rd, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    GB-

    “Nothing like being 21…AGAIN.”

    Where was The Fountain of Youth ? I was always curious. :)

  162. Erin March 23rd, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!!
    March 23rd, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Reading these comments is like Groundhog Day.

    ******************************
    It’s still just once a year, isn’t it?

    Sorry-couldn’t resist the Groundhog Day reference. :)

  163. upstate kate March 23rd, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    GB
    every kid should have a dog or 2 :)
    we had beautiful weather last week, which was nice b/c my son was home from college. He left in the snow on Sunday, and it has been cold and rainy ever since. Still, the days are getting longer so I know the warm weather is coming.

  164. GreenBeret7 March 23rd, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    Erin
    March 23rd, 2010 at 4:19 pm
    Nick in SF
    March 23rd, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Example: what is Melky Mesa’s true ceiling? I’m holding on to my “got melky?” t-shirt rathing than getting top dollar for it in Atlanta — will it pay off????

    ************************
    LOL

    My brother just told me over the weekend that he can’t bring himself to get rid of his “Got Melky?” T-shirt yet.

    ————————————————————

    although,it’s not really a question, but, Mesa is basically an Alfonso Soriano with a great glove and about the same idea of the strike zone. It’s his only real flaw. Strikeouts.

  165. MTU (aka GBURL) March 23rd, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Kate-

    Starting to get excited about your upcoming trip yet ?

    You should be ! :)

  166. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 23rd, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    MTU, I wouldn’t necessarily take an article that spells Brian Cashman’s name “Cashmen” and uses continual run ons and comma splices as gospel…

  167. MTU (aka GBURL) March 23rd, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Trisha-

    Gotcha. ;)

  168. Erin March 23rd, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    New Post: Beyond the numbers

  169. Comet March 23rd, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Erin hope your hands are okay. Paper cuts hurt!

    Upstate Kate we are supposed to get a couple of dry days tomorrow and Thursday. Ever been down to the Chautauqua Institute? Went last week for a look around. Interesting place.

    Hughes wins the 5th starters job for now. Mitre goes north. Pena is the utility infielder. Hope that answers all your questions.

    Oh and Chip no way Cleveland trades Sizemore for Joba and Romaine.

  170. GreenBeret7 March 23rd, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    upstate kate
    March 23rd, 2010 at 4:25 pm
    GB
    every kid should have a dog or 2
    we had beautiful weather last week, which was nice b/c my son was home from college. He left in the snow on Sunday, and it has been cold and rainy ever since. Still, the days are getting longer so I know the warm weather is coming.

    ————————————————————

    “Killer” is in the process of turning into a small horse. It’s odd that babies are that attached to such a big animal, but, for a dog that was never a people dog (never mean, just didn’t care to be around them) he is crazy about the twins. If they are being held, he sits there watching…like they might drop one and he’s going to catch one before they hit the floor. He goes nuts if one is crying and nobody pays attention to the crying.

  171. GreenBeret7 March 23rd, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    MTU (aka GBURL)
    March 23rd, 2010 at 4:24 pm
    GB-

    “Nothing like being 21…AGAIN.”

    Where was The Fountain of Youth ? I was always curious.

    ————————————————————

    Not sure, but, it certainly ain’t in Savannah.

  172. GC March 23rd, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    Joba Chamberlain is quite possibly my favorite player on the team right now, but should Cashman decide that his immense talents are better wasted in the eighth inning than in the rotation then it should be time for the organization, for its own and for Joba’s sake, to explore some trade opportunities.

    I’m not one that believes that Hughes was necessarily propelled forward by pitching out of the pen last year. Was it undoubtedly a shot of confidence for him? Sure. But he was pitching pretty damn well out of the rotation too, his inflated ERA aside. He struck out 31 batters in 34 innings and kept the team in the game all but once. I concur with Kevin Goldstein of BP in his belief that moving Hughes out of the rotation for Wang last year, period, was wholly wrong and shortsighted. If Hughes pitches 6 innings of 2 run ball instead of 5 innings of 4 run ball against Cleveland that afternoon, he stays in the rotation and Wang keeps pitching out of the pen for the foreseeable future.

    The Yankees have three or four options capable of getting the ball to Mariano in the ninth inning AND providing spot work for him when he is unavailable. Spare Hughes or Joba, this is the deepest bullpen the Yankees have had in years, with Ace, Park, Robertson, and Marte all qualified to pitch in close late inning situations.

    The only way I will feel good about Hughes to the rotation and Joba to the pen is if Cashman publicly states that this is a temporary move better suited to the needs of the 2010 team, and that this is no move of permanence, this way Mike Francesa and every other individual who thinks that because Joba pumps his fist he’s a better reliever than starter gets reminded that its only temporary. But I’m no idiot, and I know that will obviously never happen.

  173. MTU (aka GBURL) March 23rd, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    GC-

    I share some of your concerns. You have to know that.

    All we can hope this is the end of the begining rather than the begining of the end for Joba as a starter.

    We keep the faith until we can’t. ;)

  174. ko March 23rd, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    Out of this whole group, Melancon is the only keeper. Forget about the rest


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