Price: Gaudin placed on waivers
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 23, 2010 
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According to Ed Price, the Yankees have placed Chad Gaudin on waivers.
The Yankees clearly don’t have room for all five of their fifth-starter candidates. This spring, Gaudin has been the least reliable of the bunch. Plus he’s out of options and is owed $2.95 million, which is more than three times what Sergio Mitre is owed. The other candidates will make a little more than the league minimum.
If Gaudin clears, the Yankees could send him to Triple-A, or they could release him and pay him only a fraction of his salary.
Garbage in garbage out.
Thanks Chad Gaudin for helping the Yanks win.
Best of luck.
Best of luck to Gaudin wherever he ends up.
Probably for the best.
I hope he lands in a good spot somewhere.
Who the hell is Ed Price?
As I have posted, I wouldn’t have signed Gaudin. They could have allocated the money for an OF upgrade instead.
Gaudin’s $2.9m + Winn’s $2m ($1.1m + incentives) + Thames’s $1m would have yielded a better OF situation than they have now. I don’t know why Cash didn’t see that.
I guess its a 4 man race now
Yeah, Chad I thought would make the team coming into camp but he has not been effective at all in Spring.
The cold reality is Mitre has thrown the ball better than him by far in camp. When given your opportunity to perform you have to step it up. Mitre for as much as I don’t like him has pitched well, Gaudin hasn’t.
HA.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/.....id=5020813
I think the Yankees made absolutely the wrong decision. They are getting swayed by Mitre having a good spring. Mitre is not a good pitcher and he’s going to be nothing but a garbage time reliever for us. Gaudin was like another Aceves – not as good, but still a nice arm to have. So they just made a decision based on finances and not what player makes the team better………bad move.
Gaudin was an insurance policy to get to opening day. He was the answer to “what if” involving any of the pitching staff.
If the Yankees release him, why couldn’t they pay him his buy-out and sign him to a AAA contract for less than the $2.9 M? Is there a rule I’m missing?
Gaudin has had plenty of shots in the past and hasn’t delivered. This spring should not be shocking to anyone. He was terrible last spring for the Cubs and they held onto him for too long.
When Girardi started talking about how Serge was going to be more flexible in his role last week, the writing was on the wall.
Even if Gaudin goes thru waivers and is not picked up Yanks are only on the hook for 25% of his salary.
pat
The problem with that line of reasoning (although I think it’s reflective of their thinking) is that their OF insurance policies aren’t particularly appealing, and they have more quality pitching depth than OF depth.
Good luck to Chad Gaudin.
I can see the rationale. Why pay nearly $3M for a guy that’s probably not going to pitch much?
Now is Mitre safe or not? On the one hand, he’s throwing the ball much better and is cheap. But he’s not really a reliever. Do they trade him, and take a lefty or another righty like Melancon?
“If the Yankees release him, why couldn’t they pay him his buy-out and sign him to a AAA contract for less than the $2.9 M? Is there a rule I’m missing?”
Once the buyout is paid, Gaudin’s a free agent. Yankees could sign him back, but he stands a chance a better chance landing on a major league roster elsewhere.
I’ve said this all spring. They would rather get rid of Gaudin because he makes more money…roughly 3x as much as Mitre. Mitre and Gaudin are similar quality pitchers so if all is equal they were going to keep Mitre.
If he clears waiver, which he will. The Yanks can send him to AAA.
ditmars1929,
Ed Price writes for AOL fanhouse.
I attended the one good game Mitre pitched all year against the White Sox. I will choose to remember him only for that game, and now consider him the ace of the Yankees.
(Ironically, Gaudin closed that game. Mitre and Gaudin combining for a one-hit shutout. Who would’ve thought…)
My previous post was just too ugly for me not to correct:
If he clears waivers, and he will, the Yanks can just send him to AAA.
m-
“Now is Mitre safe or not? On the one hand, he’s throwing the ball much better and is cheap. But he’s not really a reliever. Do they trade him, and take a lefty or another righty like Melancon?”
Good question. He’s additional 5th starter protection and he is a sinkerballer. Probably keep him.
I agree with Frank. Gaudin will sign a ML contract with some team.
It means Thames is in. oh lord!
Wasn’t Ed Price a former beat writer for the Yankees? He’s scooped a couple of stories lately. His record is better than Hey, Man!
Keep it
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:32 am
I attended the one good game Mitre pitched all year against the White Sox. I will choose to remember him only for that game, and now consider him the ace of the Yankees.
*********************************
Not surprised, but a little disappointed. I always thought he had tremendous potential and was happy when the Yanks traded for him. If he can achieve more consistency he might still be a very good pitcher some day.
posted by Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
“I think the Yankees made absolutely the wrong decision. They are getting swayed by Mitre having a good spring. Mitre is not a good pitcher and he’s going to be nothing but a garbage time reliever for us. Gaudin was like another Aceves – not as good, but still a nice arm to have. So they just made a decision based on finances and not what player makes the team better………bad move.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lets be honest Betsy the Yankees aren’t going to win or lose because of Mitre or Gaudin on the roster or Thames, Winn or Gardner. This situations are all trivial. These guys are all bottom feeders on the roster who’s importance is negligible for the most part.
For example all the Yankees want is terrific defense out of Gardner and using his speed on the bases and in covering the outfield. His overall hitting is a bonus if he is just mediocre in this 2010 lineup’s strength.
If Mitre is exposed the Yankees will just waive him and call up a Boone Logan or Melancon to take the last bullpen spot.
The Yankees just went with the guy who performed best in camp, wouldn’t surprise me if Mitre is exposed during the season, but they can only go on what was done in camp when guys were given their fair shot.
As it is right now, the pitching staff looks like
Sabathia – L
Burnett – R
Pettitte – L
Vazquez – R
Hughes – R
Mitre – R – Long Relief
Aceves – R – Long or Short Relief
Park – R – Short Relief
Robertson – R – 7th inning bridge to setup man
Marte – L – Primary Lefty
Joba – R – Setup
Rivera – R – Closer
“If he clears waivers, and he will, the Yanks can just send him to AAA.”
Not without paying him $2.9M, they can’t.
Does Mitre have options left??
Gaudin gets cut and the Mitre haters emerge. Funny stuff. We’re doomed! The Yanks kept Mitre over Gaudin.
And the whining about the OF is amusing. Gardner-Granderson-Swisher will be more than fine. We have arguably one of the most potent offensive infields in baseball history, so lets whine about the OF. We don’t need a future Hall of Famer at every position or even an All-Star at every position. Or do we spoiled Yankee fans?
Thanks, Levi.
As I understand it, if Gaudin clears waivers and the Yankees keep him and send him to the minors, they still owe him his $2.95M. I don’t see that happening.
Gaudin was probably a little more versatile than Mitre but I don’t really see much of a difference between them – you’ve got rotten apples in one hand and rotten tomatoes in the other.
Good luck to Gaudin. A consummate professional with us.
Gaudin did a nice job last year for us; Mitre stank. I don’t see how they are the same quality. I wish Gaudin the best of luck – I’m disappointed.
Does Mitre have options left??
==
I dont think so.
rodg12,
Neither Gaudin nor Mitre had options. Everyone knew one or both would be gone. Guess they couldn’t find a taker for Gaudin’s salary.
Bad Scooter,
Everyone (except Betsy
) likes how Mitre’s looked. He’s rounding into form being even further away from TJ surgery. I know people think he can be a spot starter, but I’m wondering if he’s more of a long man? McAllister can come up for a spot start and then if need be, Mitre (or Hughes if he’s in the pen) can be stretched out to fill any hole in the rotation.
Betsy-
FWIW I agree with you on gaudin.
However, think of it this way.
Gaudin’s salary relief can be used for patching at the trade deadline.
I think that’s worth something.
Nonetheless, Gaudin had a 20% chance to win the 5th starting job.
It’s evident the Yankees see something we don’t. They are the experts, not us.
Mitre deserves another chance this year since he looks much stronger than last year (within TJS recovery process).
Macfan, Gaudin did a nice job for us last year in the regular season, when it counted. I don’t get why people are so enamored of Mitre just because he’s had a good spring. Lots of players have good springs and then they stink it up in the regular season because they aren’t any good.
gaudin for his career has been a below average pitcher. he had a nice run with us last year but he is what he is. mitre was coming of surgery last year and is younger. he was pitching well and has a much higher ceiling.
And Aceves & Mitre chances just went up 5%.
Ok M, whatever… if you want to assume that every pitcher who looks good in spring training is actually a good pitcher ,that’s up to you. I ALSO never said he wasn’t having a good ST – what does that have to do with anything?
“Not without paying him $2.9M, they can’t.”
I believe you but don’t understand why. Was the 2.9M a minor league deal?
“Gaudin did a nice job last year for us; Mitre stank. I don’t see how they are the same quality.”
Since Mitre was rehabbing from TJ surgery, that’s not a fair comparison.
Betsy-
” Lots of players have good springs and then they stink it up in the regular season because they aren’t any good.”
Careful. You’ll jinx Phil !
Brrman-
Gaudin is younger than Mitre.
Yes, but Mitre was recovering from surgery last year, wasn’t he?
Thanks, m. I thought he was out of options, just wanted to confirm. To me, it seems like the 25 man is pretty much set now after the Gaudin and Hoffman moves.
Jeter
Johnson
Teixeira
Rodriguez
Cano
Posada
Granderson
Swisher
Gardner
Cervelli
Pena
Winn
Thames
Sabathia
Burnett
Pettitte
Vazquez
Joba/Huges
Mo
Joba/Hughes
Robertson
Marte
Park
Aceves
Mitre
What a team!!!
It’s evident the Yankees see something we don’t. They are the experts, not us.
===
We are all the same unless a team takes Gaudin.
If no taken then Thames is in and Gaudin is out. Thats it.
upstate kate
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:45 am
Yes, but Mitre was recovering from surgery last year, wasn’t he?
*************************
He was. And I believe Cashman said something to the effect of anything they got out of him in ’09 would be a bonus
Betsy,
I was teasing you. And only you. Because you’ve been very vocal in your opinion of Mitre.
He’s pitching well now, but you’re fixated on what he did last season, only 12 months or so away from TJS. What does that have to do with anything?
Pat:
He doesn’t have a two-way deal. If the Yankees keep him, he’s owed 2.9M. They can release him, pay a 1/4 of the $2.9M and try to sign him back at something much less and send him to SWB, but as a free agent, Gaudin would likely pursue options that would give him a better chance to make a big league club.
intelligent move.
keep Mitre
“Not without paying him $2.9M, they can’t.”
I believe you but don’t understand why. Was the 2.9M a minor league deal?
===
If he were a minor leaguer then Yankees would option him to Scranton without placing him on waiver.
“Bad Scooter March 23rd, 2010 at 10:36 am
And the whining about the OF is amusing. Gardner-Granderson-Swisher will be more than fine. We have arguably one of the most potent offensive infields in baseball history, so lets whine about the OF. We don’t need a future Hall of Famer at every position or even an All-Star at every position. Or do we spoiled Yankee fans?”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’ve never understood that we won last season with an outfield of
Damon, Melky/Gardner, Swisher
this coming season its
Gardner/Winn, Granderson, Swisher
So lets see we may have a few less HR’s with Gardner and a dip in AVG with Granderson.
We however have improved on defense, got younger and faster to cover the range in Left, Left Center, Center and Right Center with Gardner and Granderson covering those parts of the ballpark.
Brett Gardner has been decent in Spring, bunting for hits, have a couple of triples and is not striking out which are things we want to see out of him.
Granderson we can all agree will approach 30+ HR’s in Yankee Stadium and also brings speed and defense and is a better player outside of Comerica Park every year of his career. His AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS all increase outside of Comerica Park and now he is coming to Yankee Stadium and a stacked lineup.
Swisher will continue to do what he does, work the count, get some hits and strikeouts and still be productive over the length of the season.
All that to go with the best offensive infield in Major League Baseball by far.
“He was. And I believe Cashman said something to the effect of anything they got out of him in ‘09 would be a bonus”
Insomuch as absolutely nothing = a bonus, I would agree.
The move tells me the Yankees see Mitre as their #6 starter. At least for right now.
This is not a surprise. Let’s see if any team claims Gaidin. That will tell you something either way. My guess is Mitre is next.
“We are all the same unless a team takes Gaudin.
If no taken then Thames is in and Gaudin is out. Thats it.”
What are you talking about??? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. We have an open roster spot after sending Hoffman back to the Dodgers so Thames gets on the roster that way.
Mitre is a reliever for Yanks? Not a chance. He is a full time starter if he sticks with Yankees.
lol, Frank.
Mitre was deceiving, though. Pitched just bad enough to keep the team in the game. We were like 5-0 in his first X number of starts, with little credit to him. His poor fielding did him in on more than 2 occasions.
“SJ44 March 23rd, 2010 at 10:50 am
The move tells me the Yankees see Mitre as their #6 starter. At least for right now.”
I agree SJ. Would be nice to be able to send him down to keep him stretched out though. Then the team could keep a 2nd lefty. Alas, not gonna happen with Mitre out of options.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com.....7474_o.jpg
Everyone hungry. go eat
Does anyone know of any mechanical adjustments Mitre has made? He’s keeping the ball down in the zone now, to his benefit. Or could it be just rounding into form after TJS rehab?
What are you talking about??? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. We have an open roster spot after sending Hoffman back to the Dodgers so Thames gets on the roster that way.
==
Thames is not in yet. Gaudin’s 2.9M is reduced so Yanks can cover Thames 1.1M. Ring has a shot to take over Hoffmann’s spot.
If Phil goes to the pen, I think he’s the #6.
Does anyone know of any mechanical adjustments Mitre has made? He’s keeping the ball down in the zone now, to his benefit. Or could it be just rounding into form after TJS rehab?
==
He just gets stronger.
Mitre did have one great start against the White Sox.
i dont get the complaining about thames. he is big-time power off the bench. we will have gardner and cervelli in the lineup regularly and we don’t know how granderson will do against lefties. while he’s listed as an OF, he is there to provide power off the bench. the last 4 years, he’s averaged a home run every 14.5 ab’s. the yankees dont have many other workable options to provide bench power.
i think thames is going to contribute well from the 25th spot on the roster.
Hey Bod, prayers for your mom but I know she will do fine. I mean that.
I love Mitre. Happy to have him if he ends up staying. We don’t get to have do-overs in life, but if there could be any do-over, for me it would be for both Phil and Joba to have been given the time they really needed in AAA. Nobody’s fault, the way things sifted out when the Yankees were down pitchers and out of choices. But it definitely did impact both of their development, IMO.
Phil won’t go to the pen, Aceves is the #6 if needed, then Joba. Mitre gets shopped. That’s been what my crystal ball has said since the start of spring training, that’s what it still says.
Buccholz and Swisher in new ESPN commercial.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ5a09TWFpE
The loser of Joba/Phil competition should be the #6 starter.
M (and Rich), I guess I just don’t think he’s a good pitcher, period. Not everyone rehabbing from TJ surgery is capable of getting major leaguers out on a regular basis.
“i dont get the complaining about thames. he is big-time power off the bench.”
Simply put, to this point he looks done at the plate.
Betsy I can’t argue either way about Gaudin or Mitre, Gaudin had his shot and didn’t impress in camp. That’s all the Yankees can go on.
Yes guys have bad Springs but that is all the Yankees can go on in comparing the two. If Gaudin had pitched better he would have been the one kept and Mitre would be waived if he pitched the way Gaudin has in camp.
Gaudin knew what was in front of him and he didn’t step it up. I personally don’t care for Mitre, but he has pitched well in camp and thus he gets the shot at the roster spot.
If Gaudin had a track record of big league success then the Yankee could ignore it, but he doesn’t.
Its kind of similar to Hughes and Joba, Hughes has been throwing better than Joba, walking less men and commanding more of the plate. If a guy is hungry enough he should go out and grab the job when given his fair shot.
i think thames is going to contribute well from the 25th spot on the roster.
===
More likely but David Winfee could be in instead.
Betsy
He has a far better GB rate than Gaudin; it’s almost Wang like. If he can cut down the walks, he can be an effective pitcher.
Betsy, fair enough. But Gaudin’s no world-beater either. Even with such a fancy foreign name.
Seriously, they were both fringe guys, and the Yankees made a cost-cutting move. Now they can add a better pitcher. Like your new favorite. Melancon.
A good post from RAB:
The battle for the fifth starter’s spot appeared to lose a candidate overnight, as Ed Price reports that the Yankees have placed righty Chad Gaudin on waivers. Several things can happen now…
1.Someone claims him. The waivers are irrevocable, so whoever claims Gaudin will get him and his entire $2.95M salary, no questions asked.
2.He clears, and the Yanks send him to the minors. They’d still owe him his full salary.
3.He clears, and the Yanks choose to flat out release him. They’d still owe him 45 days termination pay, which would be $737,500 according to Ken Rosenthal.
Considering that he’s bounced around so much (six teams in seven seasons), I’m willing to bet Gaudin’s been outrighted off someone’s 40-man roster before, which is essentially what the Yankees are doing. Under that assumption, Gaudin has the right to refuse a minor league assignment and elect to become a free agent, however he would forfeit his entire salary by doing so. Given the current economic climate, I can’t imagine he’ll find more than $2.95M on the open market, so it seems unlikely that he’ll go this route. If he does, his agent will have given him some bad advice.
For the second straight year, Gaudin had a tough going in Spring Training. Last year the Cubs decided to cut him loose too close to Opening Day, so they had to pay him his full $2M salary. The Padres signed him for the league minimum, then flipped him to the Yanks in August. He’s allowed 16 hits and ten runs with a 5-5 K/BB ratio in 9.1 innings this spring, covering four total outings (two starts), which is obviously pretty bad. However, did the Yankees fall for the trap of Spring Training stats by waiving Gaudin instead of Sergio Mitre?
Sure, Mitre’s had an impressive spring (14 IP, 3.21 ERA, 14-3 K/BB), and with an $850,000 salary it’s less likely that he would have cleared waivers. Maybe the Yanks felt this was the best way to keep both players in the organization, since Gaudin’s hefty salary makes him less attractive than most of the other back-end types floating out there. I hope that’s the case, because there’s nothing in either player’s track record to suggest that Mitre is better option going forward than Gaudin.
In over 460 career innings in the American League, Gaudin has been the definition of league average. His 4.25 ERA equals a 101 ERA+, his .271 batting average against isn’t much worse than the .265-ish league average (basically one extra hit every 142 at-bats), and his 6.5 K/9 is right around the 6.8-ish average as well (one fewer strikeout every 30 IP). His walk rate (4.2 BB/9) is definitely high (~3.4 league average), but he mitigates it somewhat with a strong groundball rate (43.7%). There’s nothing sexy about league average, but it’s very valuable in the role he’s expected to fill.
Mitre, on the other hand, has never been league average at much of anything, even before having Tommy John surgery. Even in his best season (2007), he put up a 4.65 ERA (93 ERA+) and a 4.8 K/9, both below average by any measure. And that came in the NL, in a pitcher’s park. His groundball rate (59.7% career) is spectacular, but missing bats and avoiding contact is the name of the game in the AL East. Oh, and Gaudin’s more than two full years younger.
The move to waive Gaudin all but assures that Mitre will open the season as the long man in the bullpen, yet there’s not much to suggest he’s the right man for the job beyond Spring Training stats. Thankfully, we’re talking about two guys that amount to spare parts, though for all intents and purposes they represent the Yanks’ sixth and seventh starters. Hopefully Gaudin clears and they’re able to stash him away in Triple-A for the time being. It would be a shame to lose him for what amounts to salary relief.
http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....ers-25510/
I don’t like Gardner, but I am more than happy with our OF because I love Granderson and Swisher. I feel CG will improve under Long against lefties – if he’s just decent, that will be great. Even so, most pitchers are righties, so I don’t think it’s a big deal. I think Curtis is going to have a big year. Let’s see if Swisher’s improvements stick, but even if they don’t, he’s still a fine OF; you just accept that he will probably never hit for average, but that’s fine as he brings other qualities to the table.
I agree, Rich – Phil/Joba loser should be the 6th. However, unless they pitch 2/3 innings at a time regularly, I don’t see how that’s possible.
“Does anyone know of any mechanical adjustments Mitre has made? He’s keeping the ball down in the zone now, to his benefit. Or could it be just rounding into form after TJS rehab?”
———————————————-
I believe its the latter
would be nice if people on this board would stop dumping on him. To my eye, he showed promise last year. The capability to get groundballs and stikeouts
pat
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:44 am
“Not without paying him $2.9M, they can’t.”
I believe you but don’t understand why. Was the 2.9M a minor league deal?
Gaudin is a free agent. The Yankees will pay him the 25% of the value of his contract. That ends that contract. Gaudin will try to find a major league job and probably will, but at nowhere the $3 million he had in this contract. If he does not sign a major league deal he would sign a minor league deal. If the Yankees are interested in signing him to a minor league contract the amount Gaudin would receive would depend on what he could negotiate. His prior contract would have nothing to do with a new contract.
“Thames is not in yet. Gaudin’s 2.9M is reduced so Yanks can cover Thames 1.1M. Ring has a shot to take over Hoffmann’s spot.”
You’re out of your mind if you think the Yanks will keep a 13th pitcher as opposed to a fifth OF.
“He has a far better GB rate than Gaudin; it’s almost Wang like. If he can cut down the walks, he can be an effective”
Mitre has always maintained a GB/FB ratio twice the league average and has still gotten killed. Not sold on a few spring training innings.
I saw that Swisher commercial last night. Funny stuff.
It would be nice if they could keep the #6 guy stretched out in AAA and take a second lefty for the pen. If Gaudin clears waivers they could do that and shop or so the same thing with Mitre. Maybe they are gonna place both on waivers and hope one of them clears. Oh the puzzles of life.
There’s no question that Mitre is fully recovered from TJ surgery.
Although spring training is not the truest of indicators, he is keeping the ball lower in the strike zone than last year. If he can have the mindset of being a 2-3 inning man out of the bullpen and an emergency starter, he’s worth keeping.
The next big decision made this week will be the No. 5 starter followed by the 25th man off the bench.
Ok, guys – fair enough. I still don’t like the decision, but I don’t think the season is going to turn on it. Well, if Aceves goes down, it might, lol . Mitre is really here to be a garbage time reliever – he’s not versatile like Gaudin.
M, we can joke about Melancon, but I don’t have anything personal against him at all. I just think he’s been hyped beyond belief – and I also think Robertson is clearly a better pitcher.
SJ44,
I just don’t agree and I think you are overrating the value of relievers. Most teams do. Luckily, the Yanks don’t.
If Joba is destined to be a reliever, might as well trade him now while his value is still relatively high.
mel, I’m late to the dance, and posted in the last thread and saw there was a new thread but didn’t realize this one wasn’t so new anymore! I don’t know what’s been said about Mitre but did see your post wondering about his improvement.
As someone who was high on Mitre last season (because I had no problem factoring in where he was in his TJ recovery and seeing that he had some great stuff going on) I am thinking that this is just more progress as he gets further away from surgery. Those who paid close attention last season (and who didn’t get mired down in the weeds by forgetting he was pretty fresh from TJ surgery) did get to see that Mitre had a really nice sinker and curve ball and manages to get strikes quite easily. I haven’t watched him this spring but have kept up with the feedback and it is apparent that he has had a nice ST.
Whenever I see a work in progress I am constantly reminded of the saying “good waiters get good tips.” Impatient fans more-often-than-not do not manage to see beyond their noses.
JMO
I definitely think Mitre is a keeper.
Waiving Gaudin makes no sense IMO. He would have been valuable as a reliever / rotation depth.
“Rich in NJ March 23rd, 2010 at 10:58 am
“i dont get the complaining about thames. he is big-time power off the bench.”
Simply put, to this point he looks done at the plate.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I must agree that Thames has looked brutal in camp at the plate. I mean he has 3 Hits, 1 walk and struck out 11 times in 28 at bats, Yikes. He looks feeble at the plate.
He is the last man off the bench so I’m not losing sleep about him, the Yankees can always call up someone or send Thames packing and move for a righty bench bat as the season progresses.
Sounds like RAB thinks the Yankees would be willing to pay Gaudin almost $3M to pitch in AAA. Seems pretty unlikely to me. Anyone else?
Girardi has said all along whichever among Phil or Joba isn’t the fifth starter is the setup guy for Mo.
This move seems to seal that fact.
Since Girardi loved the versatility Aceves provides for him in the bullpen, plus a questionable back, it seems unlikely he’s the #6 starter.
Given the fact Mitre has been a starter his entire career, and now seems to have a roster spot, seems more likely he’s the #6 guy to start the season.
vinny-b, I am now reading the posts and saw your post about Mitre. I totally agree. IMO the people who dump on him truly just haven’t bothered paying attention. Or they conveniently forget about his TJ surgery. Or they just don’t like him. The guy can pitch!
Patrick,
If Joba could bring Matt Kemp or someone like that then sure but he’s not going to. At this point Joba’s trade value is less than the value he can provide to the team.
It would be selling low on him.
Does Gaudin get a W S ring ?
Patrick,
they aren’t trading Joba. There is no reason to trade him.
Plus, given his struggles, why sell low? It makes no sense which is why it’s not happening.
david winfree has been in the minors since 2003, he couldnt get a call-up with the twins. thames already is a major league hitter with power. people are still getting way too caught up in ST #’s. two weeks ago the big debate on here was whether colin curtis should start in LF.
Yes. I can’t see them paying him $3 million either to play in AAA, with all the payroll concerns this offseason.
SJ,
You’re probably right. Mitre being the #6 out of the pen, though. So he wouldn’t be able to spot start for any great length right off the bat.
And I don’t think it’s right that Joba/Phil be “stuck” in the pen if there’s an opening for both guys in the rotation.
The bullpen is much stronger this year than last, when Phil helped shore it up. I think Robertson and, to a certain degree, Park could handle the setup duties.
I understand it, but I don’t like it.
And if you’re correct about the Yankees being adamant about Phil/Joba setting up Mo, then it clues me into who they’re leaning towards for the #5 spot.
SJ44-
You may be right on Mitre but I don’t think so. I know Girardi is said to like him, but he’d never had any real success at the major league level. I can’t see them keeping Mitre around at the major league level, he won’t pitch often enough, and I can’t see them paying him to pitch at AAA either. Same went for Gaudin, more so because of his salary, less so because he’s shown a lot more at the ML level than Mitre.
Aceves makes a lot of sense as the swing guy, I suspect that’s what they’ll do just like they did last year for a while.
“I am now reading the posts and saw your post about Mitre. I totally agree. IMO the people who dump on him truly just haven’t bothered paying attention. Or they conveniently forget about his TJ surgery. Or they just don’t like him. The guy can pitch!”
————————————————-
trisha: if memory serves, it seems you and I were the only people who liked him last year
at times he looked to be cruising through the batting order. And then a fluke thing would happen. The Yankees know he has the ability to get groundballs and stikeouts (a key for that stadium)
If the Yanks were going to trade Joba they would have done it in the off-season. They certainly aren’t going to trade him now.
I don’t think the Yankees will trade Joba.
But for entertainment purposes only– Joba does look better now than he did late last year.
But we don’t have any glaring needs. So, it’d be selling low, at this point.
I am one who has dumped on Mitre coming into camp and he may just well pitch like garbage when the season starts.
But I have to acknowledge he has pitched well in camp and that has to count for something when he is competing for a roster spot, Gaudin didn’t even though he had the same opportunity in front of him to just go out and perform well.
Unless guys have a track record keeping them around even when they are lousy in camp is questionable for a GM to do.
If Joba is not the 5th starter he can only look at himself
Gaudin being put on waivers he can only look at himself
Their performance levels when given the fair opportunity created their scenarios.
I don’t care about W-L in Spring training, but I do look at how guys are throwing the ball or their approach at the plate.
I’d actually think Mitre is the 7th starter behind the loser of Phil/Joba.
And I agree with the posted lineup. Except for switching Gaudin with Mitre, that’s the way I’ve had it for a while.
As far as Mitre vs. Gaudin? meh.. Slop innings and emergency starts don’t require an all-star. This is def. one of those potential ‘bite-us-in-the-ass’ type moves though, if the rotation can’t stay healthy (knock on wood).
“At this point Joba’s trade value is less than the value he can provide to the team. ”
It’s impossible for you or I to know if this is true.
“they aren’t trading Joba. There is no reason to trade him. ”
You’re wrong. I’m not saying they will do it but the reasons are pretty apparent. It’s like you aren’t even reading my posts, I’ve stated several reasons over the last few hours.
“Plus, given his struggles, why sell low? It makes no sense which is why it’s not happening.”
Because as a reliever his value will drop even lower.
Sorry SJ44, you aren’t convincing me of your opinions this time. It’s really simple, if the Yankees decide Joba will be a reliever forever it makes a lot of sense to explore trade opportunities.
The problem with Aceves is his back. It’s unlikely he can pitch as a starter because if it.
Unless someone gets hurt, or they decide to carry a second lefty (unlikely since Logan has options remaining), this move seems to seal Mitre’s spot on the roster.
Since he has worked less out of the pen than Ace, Joba and Robertson, it seems more likely the Yankees, at least for now, view him as the #6 starter.
Maybe they placed Gaudin on waivers because they thought he would be less likely to be claimed than Mitre due to his salary. My guess is that they would love to be able to send one of the two to AAA to get regular starts in case of injury. I think they would rather keep Mitre because he’s cheaper but he may have been more likely to be claimed for that very same reason.
Patrick, the Yanks aren’t going to trade Joba. If the Yanks had planned to trade him, they would have done so before spring training started. Trading him now would be a panic move, and the Yanks aren’t going to panic.
Patrick,
most of the teams in baseball view him as a relief pitcher. That being the case, what do you think they would get for him? Not much.
As Wave said, if they didn’t trade him in the off-season, they certainly aren’t doing it now.
Grain of salt, it’s George King. I’m not advocating Aceves for the 5th spot, just wanted to post what’s been floating out there about Ace’s back:
“Over the winter, Aceves was treated for a balky back that requires maintenance. It might be easier to manage Aceves’ back issues by using him every fifth day instead of in the irregular role of reliever.”
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....eN2xQ7qiZL
Forget trading Chamberlain or not… why would you want to do that? He’s really good.
Patrick,
Ok who you trading Joba for? Teams either see him as an unproven starter or a setup man/unproven closer. How much value do you think that’s bringing back? Answer not enough to trade him.
“Alfredo Aceves, a reliever last year, has pitched even better than Hughes and comes with a doctor’s note advocating a regular role as a starter as the best regimen for his balky back.”
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news.....86887.html
Could be right, Blake. Lot of scratch for an AAA pitcher though. I can just hear the baseball fans in Pawtucket, Norfolk, Louisville, Durham, etc. complaining about the SWB payroll.
“most of the teams in baseball view him as a relief pitcher. That being the case, what do you think they would get for him? Not much.
As Wave said, if they didn’t trade him in the off-season, they certainly aren’t doing it now.”
It’s impossible to know how most of the teams in baseball view him. Unless you are friends with every GM in baseball.
I never said the Yankees should trade him. I only said they should trade him if they make the decision that he’s going to be a reliever forever.
Why not trade him before spring? Maybe they needed this spring training to affirm their decision to make him a career reliever?
I don’t think the Yankees will trade him because I believe they view him as a starter long term. He’ll pitch in the pen this year and start next year. I don’t think you all are comprehending exactly what I’m arguing here…
I like Inge
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:27 am
Forget trading Chamberlain or not… why would you want to do that?
*****************************
This sums up my thoughts on the situation
SJ, do you think the Yankees made the right move with Gaudin? I agree with Patrick – I just think it’s the wrong move. I still don’t get why we should give Mitre the benefit of the doubt because he’s recovering from TJ surgery. Gaudin has gotten the job done before against major leaguers, when it counted. The Yankees had better not be wrong about Mitre……..but I think they are. I’m sorry, Mitre as the 6th starter is just a bonehead move.
Patrick,
I’m not saying that Joba is the one that should replace Mo, but do you think that Joba is NOT capable of closing? Because there is some value in that.
Thames may not be doing much at the plate but the Yankees will give him a shot to right the ship. He had some huge, productive pinch hits for Detroit last year. Not everyone can do well in that role but he has in the past.
Frank, yea it is a lot to pay someone to pitch in AAA. I think they would rather pay Mitre his salary to pitch in SWB but I think there would be a great chance somebody scooped him up if he was placed on waivers.
I sure don’t feel comfortable with a Mitre as 6th starter scenario.
There were 5 “twenty percenters” vying for the 5th spot. Dave Eiland pretty nicely enumerated the things they were looking at in determining who would grab that spot – and likely where the others would end up. I would make a strong guess that if you looked at the factors that Eiland pointed out, REALLY looked at them, Gaudin would be on the bottom of the ladder. That is my guess because I haven’t been salivating over the decision so haven’t had any reason to make myself a little chart and check things off.
There are people here who live to post statistics. It would be interesting to see how the decisions track with Eiland’s list of factors, if anyone has the energy to do that.
I hate the idea that the Yankees made a move just because it was cheaper to keep one guy over the other…….
You and me, Wave…….Billy, I agree about Thames; I don’t care one iota about his ST.
Joe obviously sees something in Mitre that he likes a lot. From what I understand, he was instrumental in the Yanks signing him last year, and has spoken favorably about him several times. Whatever it is, Joe seems to like him, and that appears to carry weight for now. And why not? Collecting a Manager of the Year award and a WS trophy in two out of three years managing can do that.
Yeah I don’t get waiving Gaudin at all. He’s proven that he can be at least a 5th starter in this league. He’s also a proven reliever.
Mitre has proven what exactly? He can be the fifth starter for the Florida Marlins? He can’t even relieve. Honestly, he’s best suited to sit in AAA as the 8th or 9th starter.
Since the Yankees have probably not yet made an irrevocable decision that Joba must be a reliever eternally, what is the point of this hypothetical argument?
I think the scouts are jumping the gun on Joba; I don’t have a great deal of faith in them. They’ll give young pitchers on other teams all the time in the world to develop, but Phil and Joba? They haven’t won any Cy Youngs yet, so they are either overrated bums or career relievers
Besty – I didn’t see any decision from the Yankees that Mitre has been designated the 6th starter. You are getting way ahead of yourself. By the way, I too really liked Gaudin and thought he would do a nice job for the Yankees. But they are the experts, not us. I wish him well and hope he gets to start for some team because I believe he has what it takes to do it.
***********************
Wave, I’m not convinced that Mitre is the 6th starter. I’m also not convinced that Ace isn’t still being considered for the 5th spot. You know that I’m not easily swayed by opinions on a forum.
The competition is still very much alive, even for the 6th spot. We’ll have to wait to see the real deal, si?
Betsy,
Gaudin wasn’t that much better than Mitre. So all else being equal, it’s a cost-cutting measure imo.
Besides, Girardi managed Mitre in Florida (yes, I realize he wasn’t very good then, either). And he really likes him.
But front office people and managers have their pet players for whatever reasons, and they manage to find their way back together.
I don’t think we have to worry. Mitre won’t become a fixture in the NYY rotation anytime soon. Too many other options ahead of him.
“Joe obviously sees something in Mitre that he likes a lot. From what I understand, he was instrumental in the Yanks signing him last year, and has spoken favorably about him several times. Whatever it is, Joe seems to like him, and that appears to carry weight for now. And why not? Collecting a Manager of the Year award and a WS trophy in two out of three years managing can do that.”
Ahso!
Joe, Joe is not infallible and I think this was a mistake. Do the Yankees plan on signing all pitchers coming back from TJ surgery? I think Mitre is getting a pass on last year simply because he was recovering; I’m not sure why his struggles can only be chalked up to that and not to an innate lack of talent. Gaudin helped them last year and I think he would have helped them again. I really do not get this decision.
“Collecting a Manager of the Year award and a WS trophy in two out of three years managing can do that.”
He’s still carrying Willie Randolph’s ’06 MOY Award around?
M, I think Gaudin was a lot better than Mitre and a lot more versatile. He’s Aceves light – he’s not a starter, but he can give you 5 innings in a pinch. Aceves, by the way, is not someone we should count on at all given he’s having back problems…..and any back problem, IMO, is serious. That’s what makes waving Gaudin so dumb.
“Since the Yankees have probably not yet made an irrevocable decision that Joba must be a reliever eternally, what is the point of this hypothetical argument?”
Many posters on here think they have indeed made such a decision. I was simply responding that if these posters are right then the Yanks should consider trading him.
I don’t think any GM would’ve made a different decision in this situation.
“I don’t think any GM would’ve made a different decision in this situation.”
Agreed.
CR9
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:14 am
Yes. I can’t see them paying him $3 million either to play in AAA, with all the payroll concerns this offseason.
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Me neither.
Of course, very few would’ve tendered Gaudin a contract in the first place!
“Me neither.”
Name/Post combo = hilarious
Patrick,
You still haven’t answered who you’re trading Joba for.
““Collecting a Manager of the Year award and a WS trophy in two out of three years managing can do that.”
He’s still carrying Willie Randolph’s ‘06 MOY Award around?”
Frank, GI Joe did win MOtY in 2006, he beat Willie even though the Mets had a much better year record-wise. The Fish over-performed by a longshot, though, in ’06.
“You still haven’t answered who you’re trading Joba for.”
I don’t see the point of this question. As I’ve said dozens of times on this blog, if it were up to me, I wouldn’t trade Joba. I would put him in the pen for 2010 then in the rotation for 2011.
And how am I supposed to know what the trade market is for Chamberlain? I’m not a GM, it’s impossible for me to know what he is worth on the trade market.
Bets – I’m not saying Joe Girardi is infallible. Just that he clearly sees something he likes in Mitre, and that his record gives him the clout to use if there’s a question about two guys. Just an observation about the decision making process.
mel, I had high hopes for Chad. If he didn’t turn in a strong enough ST, so be it.
Since nobody here can predict the future, I guess the best we can do is accept the fact that the people who watch these guys every single day and know exactly what they are looking for have decided that the Yankees best chances lie with letting Chad go. Otherwise they wouldn’t have done it.
the yankees are the eighth mlb organization to give up on gaudin.
speculating on who the 6th starter is going to be is a waste of time. no matter the plans when you head north, when a start becomes available, they will make a decision based on who is doing what at that time. they might start out with mitre as the long reliever and ace in say the 5th inning, but if mitre bombs the first couple of times he’s called in, then a starter tweeks a hammy or gets hit on the wrist with a line drive, girardi might well go with aceves. or they couuld decide to call a guy up.
you set up your 5 starters and the rest go to the bullpen and find thier place (or lose thier place) in the bullpen as the season goes on. who gets the extra starts depends on who is doing what when a spot start opens.
Andrew:
Willie was screwed. He took an 83-79 team in 2005 (tied with the Marlins BTW) to within an out of the WS. Joe took the Fish from 83-79 to 78-84. Nothing against Joe, but Willie deserved it that year and it really wasn’t close.
trisha,
I’m just saying that most GM’s would not have tendered Gaudin (knowing approximately how much) a contract knowing that he probably wouldn’t be your 5th starter, didn’t have options, and was probably going to be the last man out of the pen.
They knew all along that either Joba or Phil would be in the bullpen. They knew Aceves would be there, too. They obviously were interested in Park, since they pursued him.
So, he probably gambled that at the very least, he might be able to trade him.
But many GM’s wouldn’t have tendered potentially near $3M for a pitcher with no role.
That’s no knock on Chad, it’s just that cost would’ve been prohibitive for most teams.
Gaudin is clearly the better pitcher. Cashman was looking for an excuse to cut payroll, and the spring showing of Gaudin gave him cover for the cut.
Here is Chad Gaudin’s stats in the American League:
4.25 ERA, 172 games, 56 games started. In Oakland in 2006, he started 34 games with about 200 innings work, and a 4.4 ERA.
Here is Sergio Mitre’s stats in the National League prior to TJ surgery:
5.36 ERA, 78 games, 52 games started. In his best year (2007 Florida Marlins), he started all 27 games he played in and had a 4.65 ERA.
Patrick,
Haven’t you been suggesting they trade Joba if they consider him a reliever long term? If not sorry for the question.
Nothing wrong with cutting $3 million in payroll for the 11th/12th man in the bullpen.
m, maybe they just thought $750,000.00 (approx 1/4 of his salary) wasnt too much to gamble on brining gaudin to camp in case he was needed, and now that it appears he is not needed at the mlb level, they are cashing out.
another possiblility is that they placed him on waivers to see who is interested in him. (im assuming they are revokable waivers here.)
Haven’t you been suggesting they trade Joba if they consider him a reliever long term? If not sorry for the question.
——
I don’t consider him a reliever long term which is why I wouldn’t trade him. I don’t even think the Yankees consider him a reliever long term.
This is just a hyptothetical situation… and a pointless argument. I’m outta here
I can’t see the player that could be acquired for Joba at this time. Trades in baseball are really evolving. Good players are only traded in salary dumps or when they are about to get big FA deal.
I for one could see the argument, but I’d have to be sold on what they could get in return.
Y’s
Waivers are irrevocable in this case.
Sorry, I have to cry foul here. If you’re going to talk trades, I think you should present some viable trade options.
For instance, last season, I would’ve driven Joba to Toronto (with a stop at Dr. Galea’s for some fountain of youth treatments) myself for Halladay.
But that’s where I draw the line. Dreaming about Kemp or whomever is great, but if it’s “no way, no how”, then it’s not really a viable solution.
So, it’s easy to say trade this guy or that. But if nothing worthwhile is coming back, then it’s just fantasy baseball.
the park signing was just taking advantage of an opportunity that presented itself in a tough market. park turned down alot more money from the phils thinking he could get a long term contract. he coudlnt and the phils turned thier atttention elsewhere. the yankees saw an opportunity and pounced on it. i dont think signing a guy like his was really in thier plans but he kinda fell into thier laps.
The Gaudin decision won’t make or break the season for the Yankees. It’s not like the team is void of pitchers at the AAA level, some who have impressed the team brass enough to feel comfortable with their futures as contributors. Cases in point are McAllister, Nova, Hirsh, and Melancon.
“This is just a hyptothetical situation… and a pointless argument.”
That’s what I’m talking about!
There’s an awful lot of hand wringing over the release of a guy who has bounced around his entire career.
Obviously money is a factor — the Yanks save at least $ 1.5 Million — but it’s really a matter of the team feeling Mitre will be better in 2010 than Gaudin. Who was better in 2009 or 2008 is completely irrelevant.
mel, based on what he was able to do for the Yankees last year, albeit in a limited role, they apparently thought he was worth a look-see. And if he had knocked the socks off spring training, I would think he wouldn’t have been cut.
I think we end up in the same place. The Yankees didn’t see him as the fit they needed. I don’t see it as terribly complicated, do you?
“I for one could see the argument, but I’d have to be sold on what they could get in return.”
Good point. I think a guy like Kemp is too far out of reach. Maybe a guy like Hunter Pence? Young, plays RF, good stick, some speed.
Not advocating a trade, mind you, but would a guy like Pence be good enough for people?
Okay, maybe pursued was too strong a word. How about “signed”?
frank thanks for the info.
“I hate the idea that the Yankees made a move just because it was cheaper to keep one guy over the other……”
—————————————————
nevermind that the ‘other guy’ is better
either way, at this point the horse is beyond recognition
trisha,
I agree. Gaudin pitched himself off the roster.
Fair enough, Frank. Could be that Joe got some added brownie points in the voting from openly yelling at Jeffrey Loria, which is still pretty great now 3.5 years removed (probably not great that Joe got fired over it, but whatever).
What a reactionary group.
What some of you have to understand is the teams know more about these players than we all do. Does that make them necessarily right? No, not even close.
But what it should do is answer any question that begins with “I don’t understand why…”
It could be as simple as regardless of the spring training stats, they saw things they like – velocity, movement, location, demeanor.
And despite his struggles lat year, they could have saw things they liked.
Same applies to the now-unbearable 5th starter competition. It has SO much more to do with results. It’s about projection as well. IF (and when) at the top of their game, who is the most tantalizing in terms of pure stuff and ability, rather than who has it together the most right now.
The teams sees things in players fans don’t, for the mere fact they SEE the players SO much more than fans do.
Again, doesn’t make them right, just more informed.
Some of you also act like players have never emerged out of (seeming) nowhere, or took a little extra time to put their skills together.
If Sergio Mitre is effective enough this year to be the last guy outta the bullpen and spot start here and there, would anyone be truly shocked?
If you would be, I question how much baseball you’ve watched in your life, or how closely were you paying attention, or how much you understand what you’re seeing.
Cutting Gaudin is not like cutting his full salary. He gets a 700k+ payoff, and Mitre earns about 800k, so the difference in payroll of keeping Gaudin and dumping Mitre would be about 1.4 mil.
Bad decision Gaudin pitched very well last year for the yankees. Mitre is garbage they are making this decision because of his strong spring training. He will flop again much like Edwar and Alabeledjo who Girardi loved last spring.
Frank says:
March 23, 2010 at 11:09 am
Sounds like RAB thinks the Yankees would be willing to pay Gaudin almost $3M to pitch in AAA. Seems pretty unlikely to me. Anyone else?
IIRC he had a guarantied contract of 2.8 M. If no one wants him, they have to pay that amount to either pitch in Scranton or watch the games on tv. If somebody wants, they have to pay a 1/4 of that amount.