Gaudin released
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 25, 2010 
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3 million off the books
chad did a good job. he deserves his ws ring. if we need a guy like chad again, we could acquire him
however mire still s*cks
More like 2.1mil off the books; they owe him like 800K.
My guess about the 5th starter is:
Both phil & joba will pitch every 5th day 1 will start & the other will finish they will take chances (1 starts today & the other starts the next game they’re pitching then back to the 1st guy) the starter will always pitch 5 innings with the 1 coming in from the bullpen going 4 innings & 1 simulated inning if needed.
The reason to that is cuz joba was stretched out too much last year & he has to cut back a little not to push his arm & phil will be stretched out slowlly
Also with idea both will be stretched out enough so if 1 of our starters goes down with an injury 1 of the 2 can step in right in the rotation
Pls reply with your negetives to this idea
Best of luck to Gaudin
vinny-
Not quite 3 Mill. They are on the hook for 1/4.
But it may leave them some dough for a mid-course correction.
It is just my opinion but I would have kept gaudin and let Mitre go.
Si.com says hughes is the fifth starter
(didn’t see the new threads. for MTU)
Well MTU see the only reason I say that is because I never saw the Yankees come to this forum for advice. I did see people here ballastic last season when their advice wasn’t taken!!! Sergio Mitre should be up! Sergio Mitre’s a dog! Mark Melancon should be up! Mark Melancon should be used, what the hell are the Yankees doing!!! How stupid can they be? WHAT? They’re not using Melancon again? Why do they even have him up here? WHAT???? Again????
And I sat back and watched the Yankees win the world series. Aha! I said to myself. Here I was thinking that the Yankees were a stupid organization, never paying attention to the forum unrest, and they end up winning the world series.
So that’s what makes me think that they know what they’re doing. See?
One Chad announces the termination of another Chad. A sad day for Chad’s everywhere.
Ideally Joba goes nuts out of the pen for a couple months and can be dealt for something we actually need. Unless the organization is committed to him as a starter he is a colossal waste of talent getting three outs at a time when there are 4 other relievers on the team just as capable of doing so.
I hope for Joba’s sake that he can find a fresh start somewhere else with a team that has a little bit more of a clue in terms of handling young pitchers. Someone like SJ will say it doesn’t matter because we won 103 games and a championship last year, but when we go out and spend 100 million on a guy like Cliff Lee next year people will regret not having developed Chamberlain as a starter.
Hughes is going to be the second best pitcher on the team this year, but I’m pretty confident that I would have been able to say the same thing for Chamberlain. Its just unfathomable to me that this team is giving up on him as a starter at the age of 24, when he’s pitched to the tune of an above average ERA so far as a starter.
I’m sure Joba is thinking back to August of 2007 and wondering what would have been for his career if Brian Bruney was a competent reliever at the time. Sadly and almost hysterically it looks like Bruney and Luis Vizcaino may have combined to cost Joba about a hundred million dollars in career earnings.
“But it may leave them some dough for a mid-course correction”
———————————————-
MTU: ok. kewl
as for the mid-season addition. That may be Randy Winn’s replacement (if Brett Gardner goes down)
MTU – the Yankees had a tough choice to make. I saw a lot of value in both Gaudin and Mitre. I wish they both could have stayed with the team. As always, I have to figure the Yankees know what they’re doing far beyond what I could know about the situation. I will say this though. I love me some Mitre! I saw great things in him last season and I see even more this season, now that he’s even further away from TJ surgery. So I am hopeful.
Good luck to Chad Gaudin. I hope he gets picked up because I think he has a lot to offer to some team. He helped us get to the world series last year.
“Here I was thinking that the Yankees were a stupid organization, never paying attention to this forum unrest, and they end up winning the world series.
So that’s what makes me think that they know what they’re doing. See?”
——————————————-
trisha: funny how that works : )
Terrible decision.
Jay
March 25th, 2010 at 9:04 am
My guess about the 5th starter is:
Both phil & joba will pitch every 5th day 1 will start & the other will finish they will take chances (1 starts today & the other starts the next game they’re pitching then back to the 1st guy) the starter will always pitch 5 innings with the 1 coming in from the bullpen going 4 innings & 1 simulated inning if needed.
The reason to that is cuz joba was stretched out too much last year & he has to cut back a little not to push his arm & phil will be stretched out slowlly
Also with idea both will be stretched out enough so if 1 of our starters goes down with an injury 1 of the 2 can step in right in the rotation
Pls reply with your negetives to this idea
===========================================================
You are probably right that someone will line up with Phil for a little while at least.
Probably not Joba though, maybe Mitre…
Trisha-
First off. let me just say I wasn’t intending to start an argument.
I try to respect people’s opinions.
I guess I am just a born skeptic, and because of that it is going to take a leap of faith on my part to believe that JC will ever see the Starting rotation again.
I hope I am dead wrong, and I also concede rather easily that the Yankees know a lot more than we fans do.
Peace.
There’s a reason Cashman put Gaudin on waivers. However, Gaudin showed everyone what a classy guy should do in his situation. What he did with the beat writers today had nothing to do with baseball skills.
I for one hope he continues his career with much success.
Vinny-b, your obnoxious post doesn’t warrant much of a response except to say that it doesn’t warrant a response.
LGY, I completely disagree on Mitre. I think he’s getting a pass on last year because of his recovery from TJ when I just think he’s not good. Aceves apparently has a balky back, but even if he didn’t, I loved having Chad in the pen as an Aceves-lite. IMO, depending on anything from Mitre except as a garbage time reliever is a mistake.
I have said all offseason that Hughes’ innings will be an issue as the 5th starter. If Sherman’s article is accurate and the Yankees are developing a plan to limit his innings, then they are an issue.
The AL East is a 3 team race. The Rays are much better than what they showed in the standings last year and are very likely a 90+ win team. There is simply no margin for error in this division. Handing even 1-2 starts to Mitre/Aceves when a superior pitcher in Joba is available could be a big mistake especially since the division/playoffs can come down to 1-2 games. Having these abbreviated start thing they went through last year could also very easily cost them 1, 2, or more games. It was an absolute disaster last year with Joba doing that.
The Yankees were very fortunate that their “plan” (or lack thereof) last year with Joba worked out and they were able to limit his innings with a comfortable lead in the standings. They are probably not going to be as fortunate this season and even so should not be going into the season expecting to be.
Mitre is only going to get stronger as he builds back from TJ surgery. He was the better choice over Gaudin.
I wish Chad the best of luck….
Fran, now we have a new topic of discussion when we get together on April 11th, lol, since we disagree on this.
i just check si, saw no where it said that
Betsy, not really sure why you see this as a terrible move. 2.1 million is a lot to pay for a swingman and one who isn’t particularly good. Gaudin can look really darned good at times, but there’s a reason why he’s an MLB journeyman at the age of 26. He has virtually no command and no third pitch, and because he’s so smallish its painfully easy to elevate his fastball as a hitter.
Gaudin should get a chance to latch on as a fifth starter somewhere else and I’m sure he’s excited about that opportunity. I personally like the idea of Mitre in a bullpen/swingman role and would be intrigued to see what kind of stuff he would show if was able to just empty the tank for an inning or two. Even if Mitre fails and you keep Aceves and Joba in the pen for good this year you still have McAllister who is essentially major league ready right now.
LGY, they are not an issue. 160-170 innings out of the 5th starter is not a big deal at all.
2 things:
1. This announcement saves me from being crucified for suggesting the Yankees bring in a subpar outfielder but I had been thinking that a Gaudin for Gary Matthews swap would have made sense (with Matthews representing an upgrade over Thames)
2. I still wouldn’t be shocked to see Gaudin wind up with the Mets.
Betsy,
So why is Sherman reporting that the Yankees need/are developing a plan to limit his innings?
GC, I realize Gaudin isn’t Cy Young, but he is younger than Mitre and he did a nice job last year. I think he’s a better pitcher than Mitre and more versatile. I absolutely will eat my words and say I was wrong if it turns out I was wrong about Mitre.
I also dislike the idea that because the Yankees are the Yankees, they are exempt from criticism. The comments implying that anyone who disagrees with the Yankees doesn’t have faith in them are condescending to say the least.
Gaudin is definitely a better pitcher than Mitre, but that marginal difference isn’t worth keeping him around when you consider their roles and salaries.
Wanna know something hilarious? I think Chad Gaudin would be the best pitcher in the Mets rotation not named Johan.
Betsy-
We may be eating our words together.
I agreed with much of your post FWIW.
LGY, because they are planning to limit his innings, but not THAT much. He can start the season later or he can have his innings limited a bit early – that’s not a big deal.
Joba has to pitch his way back into rotation consideration MTU.
One way to do that is to find it again in the pen.
If Hughes can do it, Chamberlain can do it IF the rotation is the best spot for him.
Betsy,
Chad Gaudin has been with 8 organizations and he hasn’t even hit 30.
It can’t be a “terrible decision” to release a guy with that pedigree.
They have plenty of guys who can fill his role in the organization right now making far less than 2.9 million.
The reality of guys like Gaudin is their usefulness to a roster directly coincides with their salary.
Once the salary exceeds the skillset, they are discarded.
The realities of the business side of the game.
Hi Frank from Chatham!!!
Hi Fran!!!
MTU, I was being a bit facetious there – or trying to be anyway! I certainly wasn’t trying to start an argument. All I’m saying is that I have faith in the decisions they make, much more faith in that than in some of the stuff I read here. I respect people’s opinions but it doesn’t mean that they ever trump what I see the Yankees do because despite protestations here to the opposite, I KNOW that the Yankees know more about how to run the Yankees than the posters do.
The Yankees have a lot more to consider than the desire of the fans. And so they make their decisions with a lot more information than all of us combined have at our fingertips.
IMO the wise fan is the one who may want something a certain way but knows enough to leave it behind when it doesn’t happen. After all the Yankees won 27 (28 this year) rings without any of our input.
Thanks, MTU!
GC, you could be right, but I always go with the better player instead of the cheaper one.
LGY – what have the rays done in the offseason that will make me believe they will outperform their record from last season? They overachieved in ’08 by winning a TON of games early in the season, and with their current pitching staff they are an 85-win team at best.
Betsy,
That was the point of my post. Even if it is minimal, it is a big deal in the AL East. It is very unlikely the Yankees are able to limit Hughes’ innings with a comfortable lead in the standings like they were able to with Joba last year. 1, 2, 3 games means the world in the AL East, especially this year with potentially 3 95 win teams.
Betsy, there is no implication that anyone who disagrees with the Yankees doesn’t have faith in them.
There is an implication that the Yankees are smarter than you and everyone else here.
Please learn the difference. You keep getting it wrong!
Criticize all you want. That’s your right.
SJ, that’s a fair point; I just thought maybe the Yanks had found something with him and I see Mitre as being very limited. I guess they think his upside is greater than Gaudin’s, which it probably is.
And by the way, I think Mitre is going to be big for the Yankees this year.
I guess it’s all in how you measure “limiting innings”.
If his cap is 160-170, that’s more than enough for a #5 starter.
That’s actually more than what average #5 starters work in a year.
With off days and skipped starts, it’s much easier to manage #5 starters innings than a #4 starter, which Joba was for most of last year.
It’s two entirely different situations.
LGY, well it appears the Yankees don’t agree with you on that count.
SJ-
I understand that with JC.
And I also understand that JC may pitch so well as a reliever that he becomes a victim of his own success so to speak.
And i further understand that the Yankees may believe that JC is better suited to the BP long term.
But I hope that is not the way it goes and hope to be wrong.
And that, given the strong year I believe Joba will have, he does find a place in the 2011
rotation ala Hughes.
We’ll see. I am GBU.
Trish, I don’t want to get into an argument with you so I’m not going to respond to that post.
the rays are good but have no bullpen,our offense is better & they have price,davis in the rotation
if price & davis don’t take the next step how can they be better?
i just don’t see it unless their pitching is lights out
hughes innings can be easilly controlled as the 5th starter if joba & mitre get a few starts
right off the bat we don’t need a 5th starter for a while & if garcia keeps pitching well he could jump right over joba & hughes
Wether Joba is in the Pen or Starting, he is going to be vary valuable to the 2010 Yankees. He is the backup for Mo and the #5 starter if one of the starters goes down early in the year. He is the 7th most valuable pitcher on the team. Look for the Yankees to get Joba 100+ innings some how some way so that he can have another shot at the rotation in 2011. No way are they trading him…
If Joba pitches great in the pen and the Yankees believe he’s a starter at heart, he WILL be in the rotation at some point no matter what mediots say.
I’m already prepared for Joe and Evan on WFAN proclaiming how the Yankees ruined Joba.
GC March 25th, 2010 at 9:18 am
__________________________________________
Chad Gaudin: 5′ 10″ 180 lbs
Ron Guidry: 5′ 11″ 161 lbs.
reference: baseball-reference.com
“Smallish” is irrelevant.
Betsy,
That will be one of among many topics. I know we won’t lack for conversation.
Hi Trisha.
I was hoping they could find a trade partner but with gaudin’s contract that was unrealistic. He probably won’t want to re-sign with us on a minorleague deal and will almost def. get a major league deal with a team for close to minimum or maybe 1 mil.
I liked Chad, but I won’t lose any sleep over his releasing. He gets a ring, and helped us down the stretch last year.
GOOD LUCK CHAD!
“LGY, well it appears the Yankees don’t agree with you on that count.”
——————————-
haha. If they agreed with me we would not be having this discussion
!
I think the Yankees are making a mistake. Like you just said, it is ok to disagree with them. They are far from error proof especially with the way they have handled their young pitchers recently (Wang included).
Chad Gaudin: 5? 10? 180 lbs
Ron Guidry: 5? 11? 161 lbs.
reference: baseball-reference.com
–
Smallish is relevant when you don’t have Guidry’s electric arm. Small guys work when they have elite stuff.
SJ, unless I am reading your wrong, what Betsy continues to get out of your posts is that Gaudin was better than Mitre but was let go because of money. (Hence her comment about she would rather go better than cheaper). There is no question that Mitre outpitched Gaudin in ST. So therefore the Yankees went with Mitre because they thought he had more to offer. If Gaudin had been lights out and Mitre didn’t pitch well at all, Gaudin would have been the choice. So it wasn’t a total pocketbook issue IMO. I know you are not saying it was but it seems to me that that’s all she gets out of your post.
LGY, absolutely.
Fran, no doubt – I never thought we’d lack for topics anyway, lol.
The majority of people hate projection systems so I will not post that info on the Rays.
However, IIRC Vegas has them at 90 wins.
I agree with Chip…about the Mets being a likely destination.
SJ44
March 25th, 2010 at 9:23 am
Joba has to pitch his way back into rotation consideration MTU.
One way to do that is to find it again in the pen.
If Hughes can do it, Chamberlain can do it IF the rotation is the best spot for him.
————————-
SJ -
May I ask a legitimate question?
Joba’s issues as a starter have been:
1. That he racks up high pitch counts in short periods of time.
2. That while his fastball and slider are close to dominant his secondary pitches need work.
3. That when asked to pitch a full game his velocity drops (likely because he is trying to keep something in reserve for later in the game)
How are any of these issues going to be resolved by him pitching in relief?
He’s only going to go an inning or two at the most, he’s only going to use his fastball and slider (meaning he’s not going to work on his change and curve), and he’s going to be able to just fire for a couple of innings.
So I’m just not sure what a dominant showing as a reliever proves that he should be back in the rotation.
and no, I’m not saying he should start in the minors
Ledger_Yankees Cashman: “There was somebody out of the mix that wasn’t going to make it.” #nyy 2 minutes ago
Well Trisha, you could have directed that post to me instead of SJ, but instead you chose a passive-aggressive tactic.
I said I understood what SJ said and, frankly, I don’t care what you think I got out of it. That was a rude and unnecessary post.
Actually, more to the point, I’m not sure that being a dominant relief pitcher will help Joba to become a successful starting pitcher.
Betsy – you continue to accuse me of saying that people who disagree with the Yankees have no faith in them. And then you call it condescending. So I am asking you to stop with that as I have never said that nor implied that.
All of this comes from something MTU and I discussed earlier and had nothing to do with you.
I agree with you that Joba will be a starter at some point.
Juliet
March 25th, 2010 at 9:07 am
One Chad announces the termination of another Chad. A sad day for Chad’s everywhere.
Well, they may be in Florida….but at least they are not HANGING Chads!
Well, they may be in Florida….but at least they are not HANGING Chads!
–
I dunno, Chad could use a friend now. The chads should grab a beer and hang
Betsy, there was nothing passive-aggressive about it, and I don’t think anyone who knows me would ever accuse me of being passive-agressive.
The reason I directed it to SJ was because I wasn’t sure if that was the point he was attempting to get across and so I asked him to clarify it.
As far as being passive-aggressive, your post about people being condescending was certainly meant for me. So how about taking your own advice?
Thanks.
“If Gaudin had been lights out and Mitre didn’t pitch well at all, Gaudin would have been the choice.”
—————————
ST means nothing. If the Yankees are basing their decision on Gaudin/Mitre based on a few ST starts then they are making a mistake. The Yankees are not foolish enough to do that. Whether it was cost, viewing Mitre as the better pitcher, that Mitre can be kept for 2 years, viewing Mitre as filling the role better, etc. were all monumentally more important to the decision.
Re: limiting innings. They won’t need a 5th starter for what 3 weeks due to scheduling so I’m thinking that’s a descent head start right there in limiting the 5th starters innings?
Ladies, no one cares. Except you both apparently
One Chad announces the termination of another Chad. A sad day for Chad’s everywhere.
___
at least this chad wasnt left hanging.
damn ross beat me to it…
“Vinny-b, your obnoxious post doesn’t warrant much of a response except to say that it doesn’t warrant a response”
—————————————————–
didn’t know i was obnoxious
but thank you for calling me, on it
Betsy,
They wouldnt be far off.
I’d love to know (earnestly) where this organization has developed the philosophy of shuttling its best prospects between the bullpen and rotation believing that its a sound plan for development. I see almost no precedent for it and ironically enough it looks like Cash has inspired Texas to go down a similarly disastrous road with Neftali Feliz.
I also don’t see how anyone could think Joba working in a low pressure AAA environment where he could
a) Regain his 2008 velocity at his own pace
b) Spot his curve and change
c) Attack hitters without any consequences
would be less beneficial to him than pitching out of the bullpen. Using him out of the pen will simply encourage him to become a two pitch pitcher again, working with mechanics and a tempo that are not conducive to starting. Its unfortunate because the majority of these issues probably creeped up as bad habits during his Herculean 2007 run in the first place. This is a guy who had exceptional command as a starter until last year.
Thanks to everyone for their black squirrel feedback.
Paying Gaudin and giving up something for him in the process was unlikely. Good luck to him finding a new clubhouse. He should have interest in him.
The 2 injuries may not have been of equal severity but reading this morning about Mike Lowell’s physical limitations following his hip surgery made me appreciate the good outcome Alex had all the more. Scouts are questioning if Lowell is even tradable because his mobility is still so limited.
Quick question:
Baseball America has a list of a few interesting players who are out of options and don’t seem to have spots on the teams they’re with.
One such player is Jake Fox.
Now, before we go any further I want to point out that I am not in any way suggesting that Fox is a blossoming star, a stud prospect, or should be given a starting role in the 2010 All-Star game.
I am wondering if it would be worth it for the Yankees to look at swinging a deal with the A’s for Fox to take the spot that’s likely going to Marcus Thames.
Thames hasn’t shown much this spring, and Fox can not only bring some right handed power to the bench and play in the outfield but he can also back up at third which, as we heard last night from Girardi, is a bit of a concern for the club.
gaudin & mitre are very similar pitchers stats wise
era,whip,baa,etc…
not enough separation
combine that with what gaudin is making & mitre having a better st the choice was probably easy
i am very excited about garcia this year
if he stays healthy he is going to move quick & could comlicate things
” As always, I have to figure the Yankees know what they’re doing far beyond what I could know about the situation.”-trisha
————————————–
Trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!!
March 9th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
By the way, if anyone knows, is IPK still with the Yankees?
—————————
trisha -
you are 100% right that the yankees know more than you do.
i’ll bet they even knew that ian kennedy wasn’t with them anymore
Ledger_Yankees Gaudin: “I would rather have pitched better and not given them this opportunity.” #nyy about 1 minute ago
Chip,
This is JMO but I think a good portion of Joba’s problems have been confidence related as well as mechanical issues. Those are things he can work out in the pen.
A big reason he racked up high pitch counts is because he lost confidence in his stuff and nibbled instead of challenging hitters the way he used to. He needs to get that back first and them they can decide where he belongs IMO.
Jerkface, I’m over it.
*********************
“ST means nothing. If the Yankees are basing their decision on Gaudin/Mitre based on a few ST starts then they are making a mistake. The Yankees are not foolish enough to do that. Whether it was cost, viewing Mitre as the better pitcher, that Mitre can be kept for 2 years, viewing Mitre as filling the role better, etc. were all monumentally more important to the decision.”
Okay, I guess I’m saying that it had to do with a lot more than cost. The Yankees are not known to go on the cheap if they believe in someone.
Chad Gaudin is one of many players that will shake out of team rosters before the start of the season.
With today’s economics, some of them will land on their feet elsewhere and others may be forced to sign AAA deals and keep themselves ready in the event of an injury.
New post. I’m on my way to Sarasota. Hope to have news when I get there.
New Post: No other card to play
I would love to see Garcia make it big. The guy was phenomenal in his first ST with the Yankees. Talk about a ton of upside! I think he is a very special pitcher. The Yankees certainly have a lot of brightness on their horizon.
Gaudin’s a classy guy; I wish him only success wherever he lands.
GC
March 25th, 2010 at 9:47 am
I’d love to know (earnestly) where this organization has developed the philosophy of shuttling its best prospects between the bullpen and rotation believing that its a sound plan for development. I see almost no precedent for it and ironically enough it looks like Cash has inspired Texas to go down a similarly disastrous road with Neftali Feliz.
I also don’t see how anyone could think Joba working in a low pressure AAA environment where he could
a) Regain his 2008 velocity at his own pace
b) Spot his curve and change
c) Attack hitters without any consequences
would be less beneficial to him than pitching out of the bullpen. Using him out of the pen will simply encourage him to become a two pitch pitcher again, working with mechanics and a tempo that are not conducive to starting. Its unfortunate because the majority of these issues probably creeped up as bad habits during his Herculean 2007 run in the first place. This is a guy who had exceptional command as a starter until last year.
———————————–
I agree with your argument.
I think if the ultimate goal is for Joba to start in the Yankee rotation then there is a great deal of logic to letting him go back to AAA to develop those aspects of his game that he’s struggled with as a starter on the major league level and I don’t see how relieving is going to making him a better starter.
That said, I think that this is as close as we’re going to get to the Yankees actually saying “Joba Chamberlain is not going to be a starter going forward.”
Next year the Yankees will likely bring back Vazquez or Andy and whomever they don’t retain will be replaced either with a big time free agent (Cliff Lee) or another one of the starters working through the system.
I think it goes like this for performance chances:
Gaudin:
Good – 10%
OK – 60%
Bad – 30%
Mitre:
Good – 30%
OK – 30%
Bad – 40%
So it’s all a maybe for these guys. But Mitre’s higher chance of being better than average makes him a slightly better risk in a relatively low-priority slot. Particularly at a third of the cost.
a) Regain his 2008 velocity at his own pace
Is this a serious point? He has not lost any velocity. As an RP, you can over-throw the ball(and throw 98mph) and not hurt yourself. If you come in as a SP and overthrow(like Joba tried to do) you hurt yourself(like Joba did). Starters are supposed to throw to their motion and body, free and easy… He needs to learn to pitch effectively with a 93-94mph fastball, not reach some arbitrary pitch speed that you have deemed will make him successful as a SP and not regain some mythical velocity you think he lost.
We don’t know that it is Mitre vs Gaudin yet. Mitre could be traded or released still too. The Yanks may go with 3 leftys. We don’t even know for sure that Phil is the 5th starter yet. Speculation is fun, but remember it still is just speculation. Today the Yanks could decide that Hughes is #5. Tomorrow, someone (SP) could get injured and Joba could end up being #4 over Hughes. (Or Mitre could be. Or Aceves could be.) The whole roster thingy is dynamic and day to day. Most pitching injuries occur in March & April. So having a backup plan makes sense.
I guess I’m more anxious to see real games that guessing what someone else is doing or going to do!
“I’d love to know (earnestly) where this organization has developed the philosophy of shuttling its best prospects between the bullpen and rotation believing that its a sound plan for development. ”
GC-
while i can see the benefit of sending hughes or joba to the bullpen in a specific situation, i question their overall development and the way the yankees develop starters in general.
look at what’s happened with ian kennedy:
“For those evaluating and reevaluating the Diamondbacks rotation with every outing, there was reason for excitement after Ian Kennedy’s performance on Monday afternoon.
Kennedy was highly impressive in carving up the San Diego Padres, allowing just two hits in five shutout innings. He struck out eight and did not issue a walk. “-by Nick Piecoro – Mar. 22, 2010 08:35 PM
The Arizona Republic
cashman is doing a good job of developing arms for the bullpen, but he’s yet to develop a quality starter. until he does, his methods are suspect.
GC-
The where it came from is from the collective experience of those involved in the process.
Many including former pitchers like Cone have said that the BP can be a vehicle to the Rotation, and a good prep for future starters.
What I wonder about is wether the Yankees have already made up their mind that JC is best suited to be a reliever or future closer ?
I do not know if that is the case and time will tell on that.
IF, and only IF, they go that route will I be disappointed in the decision.
Personally, I would not be satisfied with Joba as permanent BP guy without seeing him having more of an opportunity to start.
Some think they have seen enough.
Personally, I haven’t.
Keep the faith. GBU till the end.
Tom B, to be honest I don’t know what you’re talking about. There is no reason why someone who sat 94-95 as a starter for his entire professional career should at the age of 24 experience a 3 MPH drop in average fastball velocity, which is exactly what happened to Chamberlain last year. Look it up on fangraphs if you don’t believe me. I don’t believe there’s an arbitrary figure that he needs to be at to be successful as a starter, in fact I believe he’s more than capable of succeeding with the velocity he had last year (Lincecum experienced a similar drop and was equally as effective).
It’s not just the fastball velocity that’s the issue. Its even moreso that the tilt on his slider was gone last year. What was once a very, very special pitch looked flat out ordinary last year.
GC – probably because normal people don’t throw a Slider 89mph without hurting themselves.
I’m real happy to see that Kennedy is thriving in Arizona. I think the organization will come to regret not finding a way to keep him out of the Granderson deal, although there may not have been an opportunity for him here to begin with.
I think back to the three starts he made in 2007 when he looked like a legitimate number 2-3 starter, and wonder what would have been had he not tweaked his back before the playoffs. I think there’s a chance, albeit a small one, that he would have had a spot in the postseason rotation and a chance to have altered that season’s fate. I can only speculate what that opportunity would have done for him developmentally but if I was a betting man I’d say that he’d probably have held down his spot in the rotation and would still be here right now.
Gaudin is better than Mitre, but he isn’t 2.1M better. I have no problem with that move.
I am a Joba starter guy but I realize that his problem is fastball command right now. He has the complete arsenal but his mechanics have been holding back his velocity and command.
How do they iron out his mechanics?
Some teams believe it’s best to start a pitcher so they can do more bullpen & dry sessions in between starts (ex. Buchholz with Sox last year).
I think the Yankees believe the best way to get a pitchers mechanics back in order is constant repetition coming out the pen. That is what they did with Brackman last year.
If they have plans for Joba to start long term, it should be no problem for him to pitch 170 innings next year @ age 25. He would be well past the danger zone age for pitchers (20-23). I also think it would be best for him to drop the curveball and just focus on fastball, slider & changeup.
GC – I’m looking at the PitchFX data right now, and I don’t understand what you mean. It shows exactly what I said.
He threw hard (avg fastball 97) as an RP in ’07.
He tried to still throw hard (avg fastball 95) as an SP and hurt himself in ’08.
He took a little more off of it (avg fastball 93) and pitched the whole season in ’09.
His slider, to be honest, hasn’t changed much. 2mph and less than an inch difference in break, it’s likely he’s just adjusting to his new arm speed and has to learn to “feel” the snap of the slider at this speed befor eit will start darting away like it was when he was overthrowing everything.
Now he just needs to learn how to pitch and mix his pitches properly at 93 and he’ll go right back to being effective(and dominant).
I knew this 3 or 4 days ago. Why so slow?