The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


It’s Hughes

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc, Podcast on Mar 25, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

ph_461833 Just finished talking to Joe Girardi. Phil Hughes is the Yankees fifth starter. More when I get to the press box…

UPDATE, 11:59 a.m.: Still on the field, but here’s the short version of Girardi’s comments.

The development of the changeup was key in the Yankees decision to go with Hughes. They expect his innings limit to be slightly higher than Chamberlain’s was last year. Probably around 170. Still no decision on when Hughes will make his first regular-season start, but tomorrow’s spring start is an attempt to get him lined up behind Vazquez.

Girardi said everyone else has to “earn” their role in the bullpen. Chamberlain isn’t automatically going into the eighth inning. Girardi didn’t even rule out the idea of keeping Chamberlain stretched out in Triple-A, but that seems unlikely.

Still no decision on whether they’ll carry a second lefty.

UPDATE, 12:24 p.m.: Here’s the Girardi audio. He gets into some bullpen decisions and other roster issues, but it’s mostly about Phil Hughes and the impact on the rest of the pitching staff.

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197 Responses to “It’s Hughes”

  1. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 25th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    *Repost*

    “Theres nothing wrong with being the future closer of the Yanks !”

    He doesn’t want that, he’s been saying that. This isn’t going to be smooth at all. I know everyone prbly thinks happy days, there is no way Joba is happy today, he’s still thinking what the hell the Joba Rules were about, and GI Joe still didn’t make it known what his role is.

  2. Frankie D March 25th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Now how are they going to limit his innings? Hopefully not as asinine as the “joba rules”.

  3. Johnny March 25th, 2010 at 11:53 am

    “Last year, over the course of the Minor League season, his Major League campaign and the playoffs, he threw 111 innings, and I believe the Yankees will try to cap him somewhere within the 165-175 innings range. Based on the team’s schedule, they don’t need a fifth starter until April 24, and Hughes should, in other words, be able to last the season in the rotation”.

    h/t rab

  4. Rishi March 25th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Ledger_Yankees Girardi: none of the guys who didn’t win job are guaranteed bullpen spots, Joba included. #nyy
    2 minutes ago via TweetDeck

  5. teddy gbu March 25th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    i would to congrat cashman and giradri on how to develop young starting pitching.

    forget developing them just pen them and buy them.

  6. tex's friend March 25th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Girardi: none of the guys who didn’t win job are guaranteed bullpen spots, Joba included. #nyy

    __

    Do the yankees have some beef with joba or something? its almost like they are going out of their way to piss him off.

  7. Rishi March 25th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    tex’s friend
    March 25th, 2010 at 11:54 am
    Girardi: none of the guys who didn’t win job are guaranteed bullpen spots, Joba included. #nyy

    __

    Do the yankees have some beef with joba or something? its almost like they are going out of their way to piss him off.

    ——————————–

    Either that or discourage him – I don’t understand the need for that comment either

  8. B KING March 25th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    I just simulated the entire 2010 season with MLB2010 for PS3.
    Sony has the Yankees winning the AL East, Tampa Bay with the Wild Card. Boston SOL.
    AROD hits 50 HR 130 RBI, wins MVP
    CC Wins 18 and the CY Young

    BTW, they also have Boston trading John Lackey for Ted Lilly and David Ortiz for Adam Dunn. Hmmmmmmm…….

    Sounds good to me.

  9. teddy gbu March 25th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    likely trying to motivate joba.

    if they can pen hughes, then pen him

  10. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Ledger_Yankees Girardi: Joba next pitches Saturday. Slated for one inning. #nyy 26 seconds ago

    YankeesWFAN Worst kept secret in Tampa–Hughes officially named 5th starter. Joba, Aceves, Mitre still in mix for bullpen spots. 32 seconds ago

  11. tex's friend March 25th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    the way girardi is talking is just completely counter productive. No matter what, Joba Chamberlain is an important part of this team, and basically putting him down this way and acting like he is on the same scale with Sergio Mitre is just wrong.

  12. Frank March 25th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    “Now how are they going to limit his innings? Hopefully not as asinine as the “joba rules””

    I’d assume the “Porcello rules” instead. To the extent that they have to manage his innings, the way the Tigers handled Porcello last season would seem a reasonable model.

  13. SJ44 March 25th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Teddy,

    I’d like to congratulate the Yankees on winning their 27th Workd Series and for having 2 young arms they can break in without having to turn it into a rebuilding project. Not easy to do.

  14. Chip March 25th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    SJ44
    March 25th, 2010 at 11:51 am
    Perhaps he doesn’t. Perhaps he likes pitching in the pen.
    Perhaps he feels like working in the pen will get him back to what he was.
    Always dangerous to assume players feelings.
    ————————————

    SJ –

    Not sure if you responded to this on an earlier thread, but if you did I missed it.

    I’m legitimately curious how you think pitching in relief will help get Joba “back to what he was.”

    Joba’s issues as a starter are that his secondary pitches need work, he throws too many pitches, and his velocity isn’t what it is as a relief pitcher.

    I don’t see how any of those things can be addressed by having him pitch out of the pen.

    When he comes into games he’s going to throw his fastball and slider so the secondary pitches won’t be developed, his velocity will go up but that’s because he’s being asked to only throw one or two innings at a time.

    I do agree that pitching in relief will help him get his confidence back to where it was when he first came up, but I don’t think confidence alone is what is going to help him get to the next level.

    He legitimately has issues that need development and if the endgame is to still make him a starter, then I would agree with those who think that the place for him to develop is in AAA.

    As I said, the first time he gets knocked around in the 8th because the Yankees wanted Joba to work on his curve or change and it costs the club a game there will be no shortage of people calling for Girardi’s head.

  15. m March 25th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Very puzzled at the coldness, but maybe Joba said something to Girardi that pizzed him off. :)

  16. I like Inge March 25th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    If Chamberlain does not get the 8th inning something is wrong. He’s a monster coming in from the bullpen.

  17. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    SJ, good things come to those who wait, huh? LOL

    I feel badly that by rooting for Phil, I was implicitly rooting against Joba, but I liked Phil before I knew who Joba was. One reason I wanted this is because I felt the injuries he suffered were really frustrating set backs. He’s had to deal with fans, scouts and pundits jumping off his bandwagon and with the idea that he was going to possibly be traded for Santana. It just has been a bumpy ride for Phil, something no one could have forseen when he was called up in 2007. I also admit that I want Phil to vindicate those who believe that you don’t need to throw 98 MPH to be a terrific starter – never mind merely a “good” one.

    I also want Joba to be absolutely fantastic in his role. I want him to be a great starter as well, not only so that we can have 2 super-talented kids in the rotation for a long time, but to shut the Francescas of the world up.

  18. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Ledger_Yankees Hughes’ innings limit will be more than Joba’s last year (approx. 170). So Hughes really shouldn’t be too limited as 5th starter. #nyy 51 seconds ago

  19. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 25th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Congratulations to the winners of Guess the 5th Starter (GT5S) as guessed on 2/19 for correctly picking Phil Hughes!!!!!!!

    They are :

    Erica, Upstate Kate, Frank, Erin, Kevin, m, bj, Mitre’s mom, Yankee Ray, blake, David in Cal, Austinmac, Peter R, Patrick, Wave Your Hat

  20. kd March 25th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    chad,

    did he say that joba to the pen was a one-way move? is there a chance he’ll be a starter later?

  21. NYYROC March 25th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Huuuuuuughes!!! Congrats Phil!!!

  22. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Not that it means much, but, bringing in Neall French as a bench player is a little puzzling. He a fair fielding non-hitting dirst baseman with little to no power. He’ll be 27 years old in August and just finished his 2nd year of pro ball.

  23. Y's Guy March 25th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Yay! congrats to phil, he did great work last year out of the bullpen, which clearly wasn’t something he expected at the start of the season, now he’s won his spot back. i have a feeling this will be the first of many consecutive seasons with phil in the rotationl. my prediction is for 13 wins this season.

    why do people think the yankees are trying to piss joba off? are the yankees supposed to owe him something? his velocity is down and his mechanics have been all over the place since the middle of last year. there are alot of other picthers throwing very well, but are they all supposed to take a back seat to the great joba chamberlain? if joba wants a guaranteed spot on the roster, he needs to earn one on what he doess now, not on what he did 2 years ago.

  24. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Tex, aren’t you overreacting? The Yankees didn’t guarantee anything to Phil in 2008. He was going to be sent down to AAA and then he was certainly not handed the 8th inning role on a platter. Perhaps they think Joba needs motivation – that would not come as a surprise.

  25. pat March 25th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    “Do the yankees have some beef with joba or something? its almost like they are going out of their way to piss him off.”

    Sounds like a no sulking message being sent to me. Understandable if Joba is disappointed. Inexcusable if he lets it effect his pitching.

  26. stuckey (”its ok to agree to disagree”) March 25th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    I’m certainly glad that is over with.

    Here’s to Hughes to performing strongly and removing all doubt it was the best course.

  27. Johnny March 25th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Again…..

    “Last year, over the course of the Minor League season, his Major League campaign and the playoffs, he threw 111 innings, and I believe the Yankees will try to cap him somewhere within the 165-175 innings range. Based on the team’s schedule, they don’t need a fifth starter until April 24, and Hughes should, in other words, be able to last the season in the rotation”.

  28. austinmac March 25th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Joba admits he needs to have a fire lit under him(as he has said previously and after his start before last). Giradi is doing just that by telling Joba he must produce. I see nothing wrong with that.

    If Joba is unhappy, the unhappiness is at his feet. He didn’t pitch well enough last year as a starter or in the spring to have a job given to him.

  29. Steve March 25th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    WHAT A SHOCK

  30. m March 25th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Erica,

    There’s no joy in that. Knowing that Joba wants to start (and don’t be fooled folks, he said he wanted to go win the job and help this team win). But Joba’s a good soldier. Has taken on the roles that have been asked of him. And he will thrive under Mariano’s watchful eye.

  31. ditmars1929 March 25th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Good decision, I think. I know some posters (MTU comes to mind) don’t agree with me, but I don’t think Joba has the brains to be a starting pitcher. You can’t shake off your catcher all the time and nibble around while not utilizing your four pitches for six-plus innings to be effective. He doesn’t have the..what’s it called, guile?.. and is more suited to hurling for an inning or two.

    Frankie, I think the first step in limiting Phil’s innings will come at the beginning of the season when a fifth starter is not needed for a few weeks. That might not be enough over the long haul, but that’s where they will start.

  32. teddy gbu March 25th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    pretty sure the sox gave lester starts and they competive as usual.

    i hope joba does awesome in the pen

    but the facts remains cashman does 1 thing with young starters that pens them.

    cause he doesn’t know to how develop young starters.

  33. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    austinmac
    March 25th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
    Joba admits he needs to have a fire lit under him(as he has said previously and after his start before last). Giradi is doing just that by telling Joba he must produce. I see nothing wrong with that.

    ***************************
    That’s exactly how I took it.

  34. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 25th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    m-

    The joy isn’t in Hughes over Joba.

    The joy is in that you GUESSED correctly it would be Hughes over Joba and you were right!!!

    These are tough decisions.

  35. cano he didnt March 25th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    GO PHIL!

  36. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    I hope this people will allow Phil to be imperfect instead of raking the Yankees over the coals for the decision they made every time he doesn’t pitch well. He’s still a kid, which I think some forget.

    Well, so the innings limits issue was overblown apparently.

  37. CB March 25th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Joba made 12 consecutive starts in 2008 and during that time – which is roughly 40% of a season’s starts for a 5th starter – he was pitching like one of the 5-10 best arms in the AL. On top of that he arguably had amongst the best stuff of any starter in all of baseball.

    The guy taking the mound at that time was the guy who looked like the true #1 starter the franchise was waiting for since the dynasty ended.

    Joba had that mild case of tendinitis – but the yankees clearly didn’t think it was that serious because they penciled him in as the 5th starter for 2009.

    Something happened last year with Joba and it’s very hard to know what.

    But it’s also very clear that the Yankees did not think the problems Joba had last year were the natural ups and downs a young pitcher has while they develop.

    The yanks are a very tight lipped organization. One thing they’ve repeated over and over is the importance of “competition” and of “earning your place.”

    At the same time, this was never really a competition. It was Hughes job to lose and he didn’t lose it.

    But even today Girardi when asked by Sherman whether Joba would pitch the 8th, said that you have to earn your role.

    It’s very curious and it seems like there’s a lot going on here with how the yanks perceived Joba to be progressing (or not progressing) with his career.

    Hughes’ has earned his spot. He’s ready to be a starter and throw 170 innings for the team.

    However they use Joba this year, let’s hope that they don’t close the book on him as a starting pitcher.

    If he pitches well as the 8th inning guy this year that does not make him a failed starter. If given the opportunity he very well may have pitched very well in the rotation.

    Until he’s given the chance to throw 200 innings in a season without an innings cap there are only very limited ways to tell.

  38. Johnny March 25th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Joba’s not guaranteed a pen spot. He has to prove he will be a better 8th inning guy than David Robertson. I think that’s Robertson’s job right now.

  39. awaism March 25th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    i broke this news like 2 hours ago lol

  40. Tom in NJ March 25th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Last year Joba, Hughes, Coke, Aceves and Robertson helped win a title.

    Think about that for a second. Almost half the Yankees pitching staff in ’07 either began the year in AAA, were rookies, or were full time starters for the first time.

  41. m March 25th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    ditmars,

    Joba’s Jekyl & Hyde in that way. When that fire is lit under his rear, he can focus like no other. But then there are times…

    So, it was nice to see Joba get to it in his last 2 starts. Now, he’ll be in “I’ll show you mode”. Either way, I think Joba gets back on track.

  42. pat March 25th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Hughes talked briefly to Joba after decision: “He just said congrats and that was about it. We’re all teammates at the end of the day.”

    Joba on his way out of the facility after working out: “You go with the flow. That’s what I’ve done.”
    6 minutes ago

  43. I like Inge March 25th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Hey Stuckey,

    I saw your paranthesis (“It’s ok to agree to disagree) on your name. Was that because of the Swisher discussion yesterday. Solid argument, loved going back and forth. I like that dude :)

  44. Chip March 25th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Girardi didn’t even rule out the idea of keeping Chamberlain stretched out in Triple-A, but that seems unlikely

    I agree with Chad that it seems unlikely (and lord knows there will be people, including one large radio show host who will go ballistic if that’s the ultimate decision) but I can see the merit to it.

    I’m of the opinion that Chamberlain’s a reliever, but if the endgame is to make him a starter then I think the best way to do that is to let him start.

    Let him pitch in games where he can work on his third and fourth pitches in an environment where winning and losing is secondary to developing prospects.

  45. SJ44 March 25th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Chip,

    on the run and can’t fully reply.

    In short, going to the pen helps him get his aggressiveness back. He is facing major league hitters, always better than facing minor league hitters, will force him to improve fastball command of the inner half, a big source of his issues.

    Also, success at the major league level will deliver much needed confidence to Joba.

    If his future is as a starter, still a question mark at this point, spending time in the pen, especially if successful, won’t hamper him.

  46. randy l. March 25th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    it’s obvious the yankees are taking a tough love approach with joba.

    if all the starters are healthy, i’m sure he has a bullpen spot locked up.

    unless they are really taking the really hard tough love route and sending him to triple a.

    then again, they are playing the red sox, the rays , and the angels their first nine games so i don’t think they will cut off their noses to spite their face.

  47. Mike Mineo March 25th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Phil Hughes is definitely the right choice here. good pick by Girardi… it was obvious all along Hughes is going to be a top-quality starter. his stuff speaks for itself.

    now we can turn Joba into the best setup man in baseball, have him take over closer duties when Mo leaves and Hughes is the ace.

  48. stuckey (”its ok to agree to disagree”) March 25th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    “I hope this people will allow Phil to be imperfect instead of raking the Yankees over the coals for the decision they made every time he doesn’t pitch well. He’s still a kid, which I think some forget.”

    Betsy, get used to it now. If Hughes struggles at all, there are people that will be brutal.

  49. m March 25th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Erica,

    I’m nearly always right. It’s old already. :P

  50. Frank March 25th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    “At the same time, this was never really a competition. It was Hughes job to lose and he didn’t lose it.”

    Agreed. If any competition existed at all, it was a sort of a Baseball Survivor between Mitre and Gaudin.

  51. CountryClub March 25th, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    I like Inge
    March 25th, 2010 at 11:59 am
    If Chamberlain does not get the 8th inning something is wrong. He’s a monster coming in from the bullpen.

    ——–
    Yeah, in 2007. He sure wasnt a monster in the pen last yr. For some reason, people think the Joba in the playoffs last yr was the Joba from 2007. He was an avg reliever last yr in the playoffs.

  52. spikes up March 25th, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    wow, awaism ‘broke’ the news that everybody alreay knew. that was really clairvoiant of you…

  53. SJ44 March 25th, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    CB,

    outstanding post and spot on.

  54. Chris from NJ March 25th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    I hope Hughes is ready to take his flashs of brillance into a full, healthy season as a ML starter. Joba has never been the same since he hurt his shoulder in 2008, i don’t know if he’s scared to go back to his old mechanics, or to throw as hard as he used to. But he doesn’t throw 98 anymore, even out of the pen in the playoffs. Maybe he’s just taking advice from AJ Burnett on how not to blow up his elbow.

  55. MIke RI March 25th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    100 percent correct Mike

  56. Tom in NJ March 25th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    ’09

  57. stuckey (”its ok to agree to disagree”) March 25th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Inge, in a way.

    I lost a bet to Blake over the Hughes thing and that was the losing wager for me (I’m certain he chose it based on my comment to you).

    I’m paying up, but sorry, you were then and still are wrong… :-)

  58. CB March 25th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    “it’s obvious the yankees are taking a tough love approach with joba.”

    I agree. Hughes is ready to start but there is clearly an implicit message being sent here as well.

    The yanks don’t seem thrilled with Joba right now for whatever reason.

    Something happened last year with Joba that went past just the normal hard knocks a young pitcher goes through.

  59. I like Inge March 25th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Stuckey,

    I hope I’m wrong. That means Swish is raking and killing it all year.

  60. m March 25th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    The most interesting (and telling) comment was that the Yankees felt that Hughes was ahead of Joba as a starter.

    I know that people point out that Joba’s had more success as a starter. This is true. But lots of other things came into play. Hughes missed large chunks of time in ’07 & ’08. Based on more recent history, Phil and Joba were trending in opposite directions as starters.

  61. blake March 25th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Stuckey,
    I see the new signature. I was getting my stuckyisms ready just in case.

  62. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Good post CB. I feel like this has turned into a Joba vs. Phil competition and that’s a shame because they both have the potential to be top starters for years to come. The same way I hoped that Phil would get his chance again, I hope that Joba will as well. I do just wish that it didn’t seem as if he has to constantly be motivated.

  63. stuckey (”its ok to agree to disagree”) March 25th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    “The development of the changeup was key in the Yankees decision to go with Hughes.”

    Regardless of where you were on this just a few days ago, you gotta love the irony of this reasoning.

    One of the main arguments for the non-starter to go to AAA was “development of secondary pitches over weeks and months of starting.

    Hughes, who spent the last 6 months of his career as an 8th inning set-up man apparently won the job by developing that 4th pitch during 3-4 weeks of spring training.

  64. m March 25th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    The only way that we carry a second lefty is one of the following:

    1)Hughes starts in AAA
    2)Joba starts in AAA
    3)Mitre is released/traded
    4)Marte starts the season on the DL

    Don’t see it happening.

  65. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Stuckey, I know you’re right. I will avoid NYYFans because they will be horrible, but the posters here are different and I hope they will give Phil the same chance Joba had last year. He’s a special kid and a very good talent and I think he will eventually reward our patience. I think the Yankees need to make it clear that this is Phil’s job and he won’t need to look over his shoulder.

  66. Chip March 25th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    CB –

    I think the only way they don’t close the book on Joba as a starter is if they do in fact open the season with him starting in the minors.

    I agree with SJ that having Joba pitch relief won’t hamper him as a starter, I just don’t see how it will help him progress as one either.

    SJ -

    I agree with your points, but I think the place to “work on things” like controlling the inner half and refining additional pitches is in the minor leagues.

    Girardi said that the development of Phil’s changeup was part of what pushed him ahead of Joba, because now has Phil has three strong pitches. To date Joba only has two that he has seen any real success with.

    Again, I think Joba’s future is in the pen (or on another club) but if the Yankees do want him to be a starter – keeping him at AAA to open the season does make sense.

    Especially with the addition of Chan Ho Park and the development of Robertson and the strong way that Boone Logan has started the season.

  67. Crawdaddy March 25th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    The words by Girardi should be taken to heart by Joba and he needs to be able to deal with adversity and grow from that experience. We are too far removed from the team to judge why Girardi made that comment, but a manager such as Girardi is trying to get his players to improve so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt by suggesting he knows what he’s doing here.

  68. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    M, that’s what people (some, anyway) don’t get. Phil has never had a string of starts where he could just go all out, where he was healthy. I really think people are obsessed with Joba’s velocity and his flashy dominance and don’t realize how very talented Phil is. Phil’s two games in Texas are proof of how good he can be; he’s just a completely different type of pitcher than Joba.

  69. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 25th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    m
    March 25th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
    Erica,

    I’m nearly always right. It’s old already.

    **************

    Glad you are not taking the game of GT5S too seriously! LOL

  70. m March 25th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    If they wanted Joba to be a starter, he’d probably be the one smiling today, not Hughes.

  71. tex's friend March 25th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Tex, aren’t you overreacting? The Yankees didn’t guarantee anything to Phil in 2008. He was going to be sent down to AAA and then he was certainly not handed the 8th inning role on a platter. Perhaps they think Joba needs motivation – that would not come as a surprise.

    ___

    I’m just saying it seemed a bit cold. I know sometimes Joba needs a kick in the rear, but these are ‘kids’ and this was very publicized.

    Now i want to see the 100mph heater make the comeback.

  72. Patrick March 25th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    When Joba is Joba all four of his pitches are plus pitches.

  73. William Buckner March 25th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    CB,

    I read your posts last evening re Buckholtz (very interesting).

    Do you account something from 08 to 09 in Joba? Change of delivery, etc?

    I don’t think it’s arguable that his stuff was worse. Control suffered, velocity dropped, confidence waned, pitches lost bite.

    Hopefully it’s not injury, though by now I would expect a trip to a specialist would have occured. Though the way the handled Wang puts things into question.

  74. Joe from Long Island March 25th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    “The yanks don’t seem thrilled with Joba right now for whatever reason.”

    Yes, there’s the mystery. What really went on with Joba last year – conditioning, attitude, loss of confidence, who knows – is the key.

    I really believe that Joe and Dave Eiland know the answer, and are trying to effect change in Joba. One tactic is getting him to throw his FB inside more often. Another is getting him to trust his catcher, and not think (“It can only hurt the team.”) Another might be to light a fire under his rear sided by telling him nothing is given. But I do believe that the Joe and Dave are working on his physical, in-game, and psychological to get the most out of him.

    Just because is may not be apparent to fans doesn’t mean they aren’t tending to it. Joba has a lot of potential, and part of a coach’s job is translating potential into performance.

  75. Chad Jennings March 25th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Just updated with the Girardi audio.

  76. blake March 25th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    I don’t think it was the results that the Yankees didn’t like with Joba, it was the way he was obtaining them. He became a nibbler and that’s not who he is or should be in any role.

    He needed to get his mojo back and the Yankees must have thought the best place for him to do that wasn’t in the 2010 rotation.

  77. CB March 25th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    “Based on more recent history, Phil and Joba were trending in opposite directions as starters.”

    Hughes has no recent trend as a starting pitcher.

    He has not been a starting pitcher in any consistent capacity since 2006.

    That’s 3 years ago.

  78. Tom B - March 25th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    OK crazies…

    Over/Under 13 wins for Mr. Philip Phranchise?

  79. A-ROD! A-ROD! March 25th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    definitely very odd treatment of joba as most have pointed out. maybe they want to trade hughes and are trying to hype his value yet again?

  80. Jason March 25th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    The best move would be to send Joba to Triple A and allow him to develop as a starter and stay stretched out for the inevitable call up to the majors when an injury occurs to one of our starters.

    Quit freaking out. This would be the best move for him. More importantly, it would be the best move for the Yankees.

  81. tk March 25th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    “Something happened last year with Joba that went past just the normal hard knocks a young pitcher goes through.”

    Joba is certainly an interesting case. It seems as though he requires some type of external motivation in order to perform up to his ability. Based on his talent and skills I’ve always wanted to see him as a SP; however, SJ has raised some solid points about Joba needing the structure of the bullpen so he won’t overthink things and won’t have so much downtime between appearances. Joba should be extremely motivated this year, because it will likely go a long way in determining his baseball future. If the aggressive, successful Joba returns you have to think he’ll get another shot at starting next year. On the other hand, if he’s mediocre out of the pen, he may never be anything more than a set-up guy.

  82. MIke RI March 25th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    I don’t think the Yankees have a mystery grudge against Joba. Not at all ! .

    Sometimes words come out the wrong way . .Espically when its being relayed from the press.

  83. Billy March 25th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Hughes has had to face a lot more adversity. He responded well when challenged this camp. Hopefully the changeup keeps improving.

  84. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Tex, I just don’t think they’ve handled Joba any differently than Phil. Phil was called out by Damon – how embarrassing was that? Joe is a people person and a very kind man. The only reason he would make those comments is because he thought they were necessary. Joba must get to the point where he doesn’t need a kick in the pants.

  85. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Not sure how the Yankees owe any player anything other than a chance and returned respect. Chamberlain has yet to prove a lot, other than he has the talent to turn in some dazzling starting performances over a short spurt before turning in a longer string of bad performances. He’s also proved that he can produce even longer strings of dazzling bullpen performances.

    Hughes has done everything asked of him and performed admirablly in the bullpen. He has also turned in a far amount of outstanding starts along with some bad starts. What he did do is go to the Mariano River University Of Pitching and graduated at the top of his class. NYY has 6 pitchers and 5 spots. Sending either one to the minors is beyond stupid. Neither deserves that. Chamberlain can do two things…go to the pen and sulk and destroy his career, or go to the pen and learn the same lessons that Hughes learned.

    I think Chamberlain will be a big winner in the end. Next year, he should be in the rotation, and you guys can start this whole hand wringing and whining all over again when McAllister is ready for a rotation spot. That should be something to look forward to.

  86. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    MIke RI
    March 25th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
    I don’t think the Yankees have a mystery grudge against Joba. Not at all ! .

    Sometimes words come out the wrong way . .Espically when its being relayed from the press.

    ************************
    Completely agree :)

  87. randy l. March 25th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    cb-

    there are things that everyone on a team knows about a specific player because the team is spending more time with each other than they do with family members during the season.

    joba is well liked, but i suspect that there are things behind the scenes that ruffle other players and management.

    i think girardi is just letting the young pup know there are boundaries that all players need to know.

    we’ll have to read the tea leaves on what it is because this sort of thing is always kept behind closed doors as it should be.

    it’ll be telling how the other core players react to joba being sent to the pen and especially how mariano acts with joba.

    i think joba is just being put in his place for whatever reason. but it’s not because they don’t like him.

    it’s because they do and want to bring out the best in him.

  88. m March 25th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Nothing negative coming from Girardi in his audio.

    His tone is way better than the beat writers’ twitters. Joba is NOT in Joe-Dawg’s doghouse.

    CB,

    Mini-trend? Hughes turned the corner imo before he went to the pen. But you’re right, not much of a track record for Hughes.

  89. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    I don’t think Joba is dumb; I understand the idea of not trying to overthink – no pitcher should do that. I’m sure Phil was guilty of that as well at times; as good as he looked stuff-wise (purely on stuff) as a starter, he didn’t last through 5 very often. There’s nothing wrong with thinking on the mound; pitching is a very difficult craft to master. I’m sure Joba can handle it…

  90. tex's friend March 25th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    i understand all of this. i am just saying there should be a little more tact. i know that isnt joe’s style and sometimes joba is exausting. I like Phil too and think he is starter makeup more than Joba. I just hope this get joba into a spot and leave it at that.

  91. Chip March 25th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    I don’t think it would be awful if Joba did open the season at AAA for a few reasons (aside from Joba’s development as a starter):

    1. It doesn’t mean he’s never going to see the majors again – Hughes opened last season in the minors.

    2. If Hughes or AJ or some other starter were to get hurt, Joba could step back into the rotation (provided the club determines he’s ready). If he’s pitching in short relief the odds are that Girardi wouldn’t be able to turn to him.

    3. I get the impression that the Yankees feel Joba needs to be knocked down a peg. He became a cult icon in New York and probably the second most debated player in New York behind Alex. Maybe that all went to his head and the Yankees want him to take a step back?

  92. ANSKY March 25th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    I think we may still see Joba start at some point this year, if someone gets hurt. They seem fine and I hope nothing goes wrong for them, but Pettitte and Burnett may always have those lingering question marks from their past injuries.

    As for Joba starting in ’11 … IMO what may happen with Cliff Lee, Javy Vazquez and Mariano might become factors in where he’s going. With Mariano, if the ’11 season is going to be it, do they look at Joba as a potential closer if the rotation has 5 good arms? Joba may well be able to be better than some of them … but if they’re all good pitchers and there’s no closer, do they consider it a net gain to point him in that direction?

    Assuming Pettitte retires at the end of the year (who knows on that) a healthy rotation of CC, Lee, AJ, Hughes and a reliable Vazquez could mean Joba is given the opportunity to become Mariano’s heir. Even if Joba’s better than Vazquez it may still be a good overall option.

  93. m March 25th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Phil’s reaction? “Ahh…Phil’s pretty laid back.”

  94. Joe from Long Island March 25th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    randy – absolutely. We have no idea what is going on behind the doors, and that stuff should be confidential. But, judging by the amoung of time and effort that Joe and Dave Eiland have spent on Joba since 2008, and how they will be judged, in part, by how well Joba turns out for them and the Yankee orgnanization, I have to think they are trying their best and doing everything they can.

  95. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    m
    March 25th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
    Phil’s reaction? “Ahh…Phil’s pretty laid back.”

    ***************************
    LOL

  96. CB March 25th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    “Do you account something from 08 to 09 in Joba? Change of delivery, etc?”

    WB,

    With Joba there were so many thing’s going on last year on the mound it’s really hard to point to a “cause.”

    But he was almost globally a different pitcher.

    The biggest things I saw in him last year were:

    1. He did not repeat his delivery nearly as well as he did in 2007 and 2008. He was very inconsistent with his delivery. Watching him and AJ pitch in the same rotation was interesting because both made similar mistakes in this regard.

    2. I don’t think he threw with the same intention. He looked like he was more cautious on the mound and wasn’t trying to generate the momentum needed to throw hard. He seemed like he was trying to conserve himself.

    And that has little to do with the whole starter vs. reliever issue. He wasn’t throwing with the same energy towards the plate.

    3. Pace. His pace was horrendous. He looked like Bucchholz did two nights ago – fidgety, focused on issues outside of getting the ball and throwing it, etc.

    Before he would get the ball and throw it – even when he shook off the catcher in 2008 he was still good with his pace.

    And again – this has nothing to do with role.

    4. Shaking off the catcher. In and of itself it’s not as bad as what it seemed to be a symptom of. Joba just seemed to be overthinking everything out on the mound.

    There are other things as well.

    The main point here is that with Joba last year it wasn’t 1 thing. He had a family of problems out on the mound – and problems which were on face – very different.

    Just guessing – but there is likely a deeper root cause that ties some of these things together.

    And I think it’s those root causes the yankees are probably most concerned about.

    But those are also the things it’s most difficult for us as fans to have any sense of.

  97. m March 25th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    lol, Girardi playing the game along with Feinsand who pretty much nailed the IP limit.

  98. Frank March 25th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    “Even if Joba’s better than Vazquez it may still be a good overall option”

    Joba’s not better than Vazquez.

  99. m March 25th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    CB,

    I said a lot of that stuff last season. But I was probably branded an armchair psychologist.

    But the fidgeting, pacing thing? That screams lack of confidence to me.

    The move to the bullpen is going to do wonders for Joba imo.

  100. ANSKY March 25th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Joba’s probably going to be really good wherever he’s used. It’s just a matter of what his role is going to be.

    As long as the team has 5 good starters, it’s not a waste or a failure for him to be successful in the bullpen. If they lose a starter, they coaching staff will be able to rethink how best to use his talent.

  101. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 25th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    GB agree with everything in your 12:25 post.

    “The words by Girardi should be taken to heart by Joba and he needs to be able to deal with adversity and grow from that experience. We are too far removed from the team to judge why Girardi made that comment, but a manager such as Girardi is trying to get his players to improve so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt by suggesting he knows what he’s doing here.”

    “I don’t think the Yankees have a mystery grudge against Joba. Not at all ! .

    Sometimes words come out the wrong way . .Espically when its being relayed from the press.”

    Sigh. Yes.

  102. Chad Jennings March 25th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    I agree with you m, I don’t think the Yankees are mad at Chamberlain or trying to send him a message. Girardi simply said he wouldn’t rule out sending Chamberlain — or anyone else with options — to Triple-A. I think he’s simply trying to not commit to anything.

    It’s an option and Girardi isn’t ruling it out, but I don’t feel like there’s anything scandalous to read into it.

  103. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 25th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Congratulations to Phil Hughes whose time has apparently come. It was only a matter of time before he broke the rotation.

    I believe Joba will follow suit at some point in the future.

  104. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    I think Phil was so outstanding in the pen last year in part because he let himself enjoy it and didn’t care that he wasn’t starting. I knew he wanted to start, but he definitely got a kick out of the adrenaline rush you can get from relieving. As long as Joba has that attitude, he’ll be fine.

  105. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 25th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Actually one of the best signs for Joba to be a starter WOULD be to send him to AAA. I hope he seriously considers that option.

  106. Trevor March 25th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Curious to see which Joba shows up this year. 07/08 or 09?

  107. CB March 25th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    “But the fidgeting, pacing thing? That screams lack of confidence to me.”

    m,

    I don’t know if one can draw that conclusion from that observation.

    It’s very common for young players to talk about how fast the game is at the pro level or how they feel the need to make perfect pitches.

    In turn, they do the worst thing possible. Rather than slow the game down by letting their inherent talent take over – they literally try to slow the game down by taking more time. In turn that breaks any rhythm they have which just makes their performance decay and the cycle snow balls.

    I don’t know if it’s a “confidence” issue. It could be. But I don’t think we can really draw that conclusion while excluding other explanations that are equally, if not more plausible.

    It’s just hard to know and hard to get into another person’s mind.

  108. Coach March 25th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Chad,

    Any way we can get a poll to see what the community thinks is the better role for Joba?

    AAA to remain a starter
    Bullpen

    I would have to to think in the long term interest of the Yankees and of Joba, AAA is the option.

  109. m March 25th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Chad,

    Let’s hope that Joba comes here for your audio (but stays away from the comments section) instead of reading some of those twitters!

    Thanks for the audio. Girardi spoke with conviction, and I like that.

  110. 86w183 March 25th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    This is a today decision, plain and simple. It doesn’t mean Hughes is in the rotation for the rest of the year any more than it means Chamberlain is in the per forever. It’s just where things will start out.

    As many have mentioned, it’s unrealistic to think the top four guys will all make 32-34 starts, though it is what the Yankees hope to see happen.

    Just glad to have the issue out of the way so we can focus on something truly urgent — the utility infielder job!

  111. five iron from fenway March 25th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    One thing to point out – this Yankee bullpen will now be ridiculous.
    Mo, Joba, Park, Robertson, Marte, Aceves from end of the game forward. With Mitre as a swing man and Melancon and Logan chomping at the bit.
    I really hope that Girardi limits his starters to six innings, because with the group above they can easily mix and match and shut down three innings most nights.

  112. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 25th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    “4. Shaking off the catcher. In and of itself it’s not as bad as what it seemed to be a symptom of. Joba just seemed to be overthinking everything out on the mound.”

    It’s nice to see someone think beyond their nose. The firestorm here from posters who were just AGHAST that Joba had the nerve to shake off catchers.

    Benefit of the doubt = basically unheard of on lohud

  113. Frank March 25th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Anyone recall earlier in ST when Eiland told the press that Joba had to bring the aggressive approach he brought to pitching out of the bullpen, to his role as a starter. When the press queried Joba on this, his response indicated something along the lines of “I hear you coach, but they are two entirely different things and can’t be approached the same way”. I wondered then and wonder now whether the Yankees are concerned that his mentality just doesn’t fit into the role of starter? Do they think as a reliever he overpowers but as a starter he over thinks?

  114. Chip March 25th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    I don’t think the Yankees are “mad” at Joba; I just don’t know that they’re “thrilled” with him either.

    It seems to me as an outside observer that Hughes has worked hard each year to improve something, learn a new pitch, refine his delivery, improve his mechanics – that sort of thing.

    In contrast I think Joba probably could have done more of those things. I’m not suggesting that Joba is lazy; just that maybe he bought into a little bit of his own hype and got a little to comfortable.

  115. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    86w183
    March 25th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Just glad to have the issue out of the way so we can focus on something truly urgent — the utility infielder job!

    ****************************
    I think Russo got sent down, so it’s officially Pena’s :)

  116. CB March 25th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    “i think joba is just being put in his place for whatever reason. but it’s not because they don’t like him.

    it’s because they do and want to bring out the best in him.”

    randy,

    Good to hear you approve of the new “development plan” !!

    On a serious note – I agree that the yanks aren’t “mad” or “angry” at Joba and aren’t trying to “teach him a lesseon.”

    I think they’re doing this because they see some kind of problem – a problem that is likely a behind close door type of thing – and they believe this process is what’s required to address that.

    I just hope this doesn’t become a self-fulfilling prophesy where Joba gets buried in the pen long term for no reason.

    There is simply no substitute for front line starting pitching. None.

    That’s what has always won games and always will.

    We saw that very clearly with CC last year. Your horse throws 8 innings and it’s not real difficult to put together a bull pen to win that game.

  117. Shame Spencer March 25th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Just to play Devil’s advocate here.. what if Hughes starts this season like he did 2007?

    I’m only asking because Joba was an inconsistent starter for us last year. I (being a typical realist) pretty much expect the same of Hughes this year if he really will be our 5th for the long haul.

    I just envision the Yankees playing with their roles all season. I hope I’m wrong and now that this decision has been made they stick to it (even though I disagree with parts of it). But honestly, I can see a s***storm developing after Hughes has a couple bad starts.

  118. IDCWYT March 25th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    I’d like to thank Joe G. His decision just won me a bottle of Redbreast.

  119. stuckey (”its ok to agree to disagree”) March 25th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    “Actually one of the best signs for Joba to be a starter WOULD be to send him to AAA. I hope he seriously considers that option.”

    Except Phil Hughes got his aggressiveness on, and improved his fastball location as a reliever, and developed the change (apparently a huge factor in the decision) in spring training, nary a moment spent in the minors.

    That weakens the argument that you need to develop as a starter in the mL to me.

  120. m March 25th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    CB,

    Fair enough. It whispers ‘lack of confidence’ to me. :P

    That game on the west coast last season baffles me to this day.

    Joba’s cruising along, dominating the Mariners (A’s?). Bopping his head to the music on the mound. Boom! Next thing, he’s getting shelled, and eventually chased. I guess it just shows what happens when you lose focus out there.

    Pitching’s got to be one of the toughest jobs in sports. Especially with so much of it coming from your head and your guts.

  121. Phil the Thrill March 25th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    They should send Joba to AAA to find himself.

  122. SJ44 March 25th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Actually, going to AAA is bad for Koba and the team.

    It weakens the parent club and it’s not challenging for Joba.

    He can get AAA hitters out throwing like he did last year. That’s not what the Yankees want or need.

    They feel they can get him back to what he was in NY.

    Why not let it play out and see what happens?

  123. GrouchoNYY March 25th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    How do the Yankees keep Hughes fresh if he doesn’t get a start until April 24? It may make sense to keep him in Florida (EST) or send him to SWB for two weeks. Slotting him behind Vasquez is of very little use if he doesn’t pitch for three weeks.

  124. Warning Track Power March 25th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Hughes-Congrats on earning the #5 starter job.
    Let’s support Hughes through the good and bad times.
    There is no guarantee Hughes will be effective enough to stay in the rotation all season long. He must earn that.

    Joba-Keep your chin up. Go to the bullpen and help this team win everytime you take the hill.

  125. Phil the Thrill March 25th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    It would keep him stretched out and allow him to find his fastball in meaningless games. He’s not gonna be very good as a starter or reliever till he gets his old #1 back.

  126. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!!
    March 25th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
    GB agree with everything in your 12:25 post.

    “The words by Girardi should be taken to heart by Joba and he needs to be able to deal with adversity and grow from that experience. We are too far removed from the team to judge why Girardi made that comment, but a manager such as Girardi is trying to get his players to improve so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt by suggesting he knows what he’s doing here.”

    “I don’t think the Yankees have a mystery grudge against Joba. Not at all ! .

    Sometimes words come out the wrong way . .Espically when its being relayed from the press.”

    Sigh. Yes.

    ————————————————————

    I’m afraid that this is going to be a continuing patten that fans of the minor league kids or young players like Hughes/Chamberlain or Curtis/Russo. Curtis/Russo, Mcallister, Banuelos will be the next on the whine list. I think that the real big name that will come up is Andrew Brackman and to a lesser extent, Christian Garcia. NYYs have so much young talent on the way soon that a lot of “favorites” are going to be traded off. The odd/funny part is most of their backers have never even seen these guys play.

    On another topic, what’s your opinion of the you Japanese knuckleballing school girl signing a pro-baseball contract? I think that it’s fine, as long as it’s not a publicity stunt. Wakefield seems to think that she has promise.

  127. teddy gbu March 25th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    the yanks should use joba like they used rivera in 96.

    if he used for 1 inning.

    waste of time, nothing to prove.

    already know he can get 3 hitters out with a fastball and his slider

  128. ANSKY March 25th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    There may be Joba issues or ot, and the team may or may not be happy with him. But it could be as simple as them being really happy with how Hughes looks at this point, plus they know Joba can look pretty nasty out of the bullpen. As 86w186 said, it’s a ‘today decision’ and things could change. This is just how the season will start out. I see no downside here unless someone gets hurt.

  129. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    what’s your opinion of the ***young*** Japanese knuckleballing

  130. CB March 25th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    “wondered then and wonder now whether the Yankees are concerned that his mentality just doesn’t fit into the role of starter? Do they think as a reliever he overpowers but as a starter he over thinks?”

    Frank,

    I remember that indirect exchange of comments between Eiland and Joba as well.

    That was not a plus.

    Here’s the thing – in 2008 Joba had no problem starting. He wasn’t over thinking.

    He was pitching like Felix Hernandez.

    So something happened. And I am concerned that jerking him around and all of the media clatter about “the eighth inning” has made him start thinking that the two roles have to be approached differently.

    Last year as a starter he looked to me like a guy who was trying to conserve himself out on the mound to make sure he could throw 150 innings and make his innings count.

    He needs to forget about the nonsense of Tony LaRussa’s arbitrary conventions and get back to being a pitcher.

  131. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 25th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Shame, not that I think it’s going to happen but if Phil went through the same kind of stuff he did when he had the 4/5 spot, Girardi would lose his job if he let it languish too long. Yankees are about winning.

  132. Bronx Jeers March 25th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    I can’t envision Joba being hurt by this one bit. He really strikes me as one of those “just enjoyin the ride” type of guys. He’ll probably just rationalize the demotion as equal pay but with less work! :wink:

    But he must focus. He can’t let D-rob or anybody else get that 8th inning and keep it. He’s got to be Mo’s “V.P.” this season.

    So wee can look at this with tears in our eyes or we can see this as him being set up to succeed.

  133. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes March 25th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    ugh, why is my comment not posting??!?!?!?!??!

  134. SJ44 March 25th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Hughes found his heater working out of pen in NY. Why can’t Joba?

    Part of Joba’s problem is focus. Going to AAA and pitching in meaningless games isn’t going to help his focus.

  135. ANSKY March 25th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    “already know he can get 3 hitters out with a fastball and his slider”

    (and often 6 hitters too!)

    If the five starters are reliable and the 7th and 8th become ‘The Joba Zone’ this year, I’m fine with that.

  136. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 25th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    The best thing that can happen to Joba unfortunately is for him to fail this spring and lose out the BP role too, so they can send him to AAA and have him be a SP there, between Andy, Javy, AJ, Hughes…something is going to go wrong, less on Javy b/c he avg. about 200 IP a yr. Joba could be called up as a SP sometime later this yr.

  137. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Joe was fine in that audio; whatever he said, he was not cold or harsh.

  138. stuckey (”its ok to agree to disagree”) March 25th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    “He’s not gonna be very good as a starter or reliever till he gets his old #1 back.”

    Except up until last August he was a pretty good starter even with low 90′s stuff, pitching in the AL during his third professional season.

    It’s simply lazy that people expected Chamberlain to be fully-formed last year.

  139. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Phil the Thrill
    March 25th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
    They should send Joba to AAA to find himself.

    ****************************
    I didn’t know he was lost.

  140. talltenor March 25th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Not that it really matters what *I* think, but this is probably for the best, at this point.

    I was certain, though, that Joba *AND* Phil would be cornerstone starters for years to come, when they both first came onto the scene. It would seem that Hughes still could be, but that that train has left, as far as Joba is concerned.

    Kind of a shame, I think.

  141. Chip March 25th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    A couple of thoughts on the audio:

    1. AWFUL music in the background – is it batting practice or a 14-year old girl’s birthday party?

    2. The theme of competition.

    I think that one of the best things that happened to the Yankees was having Hughes, Melky and Kennedy flop in 2008.

    The Yankees handed them important roles going into the season with no competition and all three disappointed. Since then the Yankees have stressed competition for young players trying to earn jobs.

    In 2009 Melky had to earn his spot against Gardner and responded with a very strong campaign. Relievers weren’t handed roles, guys like Edwar and Albaladejo had to fight guys like Robertson for important innings and it made the pen better. Joba had to earn his spot against Hughes last year in the rotation and did.

    This year the Yankees aren’t just handing Gardner the starting job in LF, he’s going to have to earn it against Winn, Joba had every reason to suspect he would be the fifth starter and he still had to fight for it, and in this case he lost. Not only that but Joba (and Robertson, Logan, etc…) are still competing for roles in the pen.

    I’m very against handing young players jobs. I think healthy competition is the best way to make all your players as good as they can be.

  142. teddy gbu March 25th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    if he getting 5 or 6 hitters per appearance, he haas some value.

    the the 8 inning “gig” is for s*ckers

  143. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes March 25th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    ANSKY,

    I agree…I think that with 2009 behind us and with what we saw out of Joba, Hughes deserves (and earned in ST) the 5th slot.

    If Joba is that upset about going to the pen, ship him out. There are plenty of guys that would love to be Mo’s heir and I would guess that Cash/Girardi are going to tell Joba that he is the heir if Hughes shakes out well in the rotation.

  144. Warning Track Power March 25th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Joba does not need to be throwing at AAA. That would be a tremendous waste of time. Plus, it seems that squad already has 5 starters.

    Joba will go to the pen and give it 100% each time he is called upon by Girardi.

    This decision could not have been an easy decision. I would like to think Joba was grateful to have the chance to earn the job this spring. He didn’t this year, but who’s to say he can’t next year.
    Anything and everything can happen.
    If anybody here wants to give up on Joba, go exchance your Yankees merch for Mets junk already!!

  145. tex's friend March 25th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    It would keep him stretched out and allow him to find his fastball in meaningless games. He’s not gonna be very good as a starter or reliever till he gets his old #1 back.

    ___

    He will find this in the pen. In the playoffs, his heater got up around 97 and touched 98.

  146. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    86, what do you mean by that? Phil is a huge part of the future of this organization – how exactly is this a “today” decision? Also, I think it would be a HUGE mistake for the Yankees not to let Phil have his growing pains. The idea that they wouldn’t even give him the year is ridiculous to me (unless he just falls apart).

  147. teddy gbu March 25th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    hughes was throwing 95 to 96 out of the pen.

    thats normal. he just got healthy and arm strength he was back to form in his starts throwing 92 to 93 before getting pen

  148. m March 25th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    It’s official. Story’s on the front page of espn.com. ;)

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=5027433

  149. PittsburghYankeeFan March 25th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Joba now has to worry about one inning and two, or at most three, pitches. He can go all out.

    He’s got elite closer written all over him. As much as I hate to, look at Papelbon–same issues, same likely trajectory.

    Would you rather be Ted Lilly or Huston Street?

  150. Chip March 25th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Hughes found his heater working out of pen in NY. Why can’t Joba?

    Come on, you’re far too smart to make that statement.

    Of course Joba’s velocity is going to improve pitching relief. If you asked Jamie Moyer to go to the bullpen and just fire fastballs with everything he’s got I would bet that you would see his fastball increase by a couple of mph’s.

  151. randy l. March 25th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    “Actually, going to AAA is bad for Joba and the team.

    It weakens the parent club and it’s not challenging for Joba.”

    sj44-

    those first nine games against the red sox ,rays,and angels count too.

    it’s not like the yankees ease into their season.

    joba will be valuable in the bullpen for those games just like he was in the post season.

  152. Warning Track Power March 25th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    The Hughes I want to see as a starter is the pitcher who dominated the rangers a couple years ago.
    I know it was the game he injured his “hammy”, but on that day his heater was in the mid 90′s. I want that type of velocity from Hughes often

  153. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    How can anyone judge Phil on 2007? Beginning? He had an ok debut and a phenomenal 2nd start. August ? He was rehabbing from two brutal injuries……and he was very good in September.

  154. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    See, that’s the problem Warning Track. Nothing Phil ever does will be good enough. He was as good in Texas last year – his velocity was just fine then. As long as Phil doesn’t throw 96, he will continue to disappoint people and I think that stinks.

  155. stuckey (”its ok to agree to disagree”) March 25th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    betsy, the Yankees first and foremost goal is to get the postseason. Now, understand I think they can do that and still have a 5th starter that struggles (they haven’t had one since I don’t remember when), but that said, if the play-off race is shaping up tight and the Yankees feel they have a better option, they can and should make a move.

    That said, unless he’s god-awful, I don’t think they even start entertaining any thoughts along those lines until July anyway.

    He’ll have a long lease for the fist half, the second it will be (and needs to be) tighter.

  156. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 25th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    I’d honestly send Joba to AAA to work on his pitches and keep him stretched out as a SP. Someone from our starting staff will likely go down at some point. And Andy is not pitching forever, Javy is a FA ater this season. AJ again knock on would.

  157. Pat M. March 25th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    I see where our old friend Ian Kennedy had another nifty outing….He’s going to be an season in season out 14-15 game winner…..I always thought that 2010 was going to be the season that Ian, Phil, & Joba were going to make their mark as good starters and rotation mainstays…..Joba is more a case of frustration for the club….There’s a wealth of talent in that right arm, how to transition that talent to maximize it for the betterment of the club and Joba is the key……

  158. Shame Spencer March 25th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    trisha – i TOTALLY agree. But I guess thats my point, what happens if he gets knocked around a few starts in a row? You have to take him out, right? I realize all of this is speculation, but if that’s what happens who do you replace him with? Do you just pluck Joba out of the pen right away? Does the spot go to Ace or Mirte? What if none of the ‘pen guys are stretched out enough at that time? Again, I know I’m trying to predict the future here, but a scenario where Hughes doesn’t turn into the second coming of Roy Halladay could start some serious panic with the fans/media.. which occasionally is caught by the organization.

    Bottom line to sum up my position: Wouldn’t everyone feel better if we had a starter in AAA that was capable of performing in the bigs? I’m not saying we don’t have good starters in AAA, but none have been big league tested/ready. Just call me a Gecko, cause I’m big on insurance policies :)

  159. CB March 25th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    “He will find this in the pen. In the playoffs, his heater got up around 97 and touched 98.”

    Go back and read Phil’s comment. That’s not what he was saying.

    He didn’t say he’s got to find his old “velocity.” He said he’s got to find his old “#1″

    And his old #1 was not only a pitch with a lot of velocity on it, but a pitch with a lot of life on it.

    Joba’s fastball out of the pen wasn’t good – it wasn’t even close to as good as it was when he was in the pen in 2007 or 2008.

    In the biggest moment of his entire season, Joba gave up a home run to the awful Pedro Feliz in the 8th inning of the world series. Pedro Feliz.

    The pitch Feliz – one of the lightest hitting regulars in baseball – was a 96 mph fastball that was so straight it would have made Farnsworth proud.

    Joba looked very poor out of the pen last year. But he was pumping his fists so there’s that…

  160. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes March 25th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    I’m just glad we can shut down this conversation.

    I’m really excited about this squad going into 2010. Our pitching is STACKED!!!

  161. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 25th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    GB I really have ambivalence, just as I had ambivalence about the female golfer insisting on playing in the men’s tour. I am a card-carrying feminist but at the same time recognize that there are biological differences between men and women, and one has to do with strength (although you couldn’t necessarily prove that by looking at female Russian bodybuilders. ) Are men’s bodies built to withstand getting hit by a baseball going 90 mph than a woman’s? I would think that’s a yes. The fact that she’s a pitcher might mitigate against that happening a lot. But then take it to the next step. How about the female 2B that signs the pro contract in Japan? How about her getting hit by balls? Do men run faster than women?, especially conditioned men? Probably. Does the 2B get thrown out at first more than any of the men because she can’t make it down the baseline fast enough?

    I think these things need to be considered.

    What do you think about those questions?

  162. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Stuckey, if Phil is pitching like an average #5, he won’t be removed from the rotation even if the race is close in July/August.

  163. teddy gbu March 25th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    W.T.F joba fastball always been straight.

    btw feliz can hit fastball

  164. Chip March 25th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    I have absolutely no doubt that Joba can get hitters out throwing just his fastball and slider in short appearances. He will be very good pitching in the pen if that’s his destination.

    His problem is that he doesn’t have another pitch that he can go to and when you face a lineup two or three times two pitches isn’t enough.

    Again, sending him to the minors wouldn’t be about letting him rack up strikeouts with his fastball and slider, it would be about letting him develop his curveball and changeup so that he’s got a greater arsenal at his disposal as a starting pitcher.

    As for sending him down there weakening the parent club, I’m not sure how much it would hurt the team.

    Yes, Joba would probably be the best 8th inning guy the club could spin up there, but Robertson, Marte and Park could get the job done as well. And having Joba as a sixth starter makes them stronger than having Ivan Nova or Sergio Mitre in that role right?

  165. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 25th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    CB I think it’s best he goes through growing pains, I’m hoping he fails to win the BP job b/c he needs it, he needs a reset button back to AAA like Hughes and return later on when we will need him.

  166. Patrick March 25th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    So I’ve been talking with people on a different board about what the best way to use Joba is. Most of them believe he should go to AAA so he can be ready when one of the Yankee starters inevitably gets injured (happens every year, it’s bound to happen again).

    I see the logic in it. If he can go down to AAA and refine his mechanics without worrying about the results it could help in the long run. He will also be stretched out and ready to step into the rotation when he’s needed.

    The other point being made was, is Joba really one of the 12 best pitchers on the staff? With the way he pitched at the end of last year, the answer isn’t really clear one way or another. If Joba is going to pitch out of the pen how much drop off in value is there between him and Melancon?

    Based on how Joba pitched at the end of last season, who would you rather go to in the 8th inning of a close game? Joba or Robertson or Marte? I’d probably have to choose one of the latter.

    All that being said, I think the best spot for Joba right now is in the major league bullpen. There is one caveat however. Joba needs to get consistent, multiple inning outings. That way, if need be, he can spot start or even take up a spot in the rotation full-time.

    If Chamberlain goes to the pen and is limited to 1 inning appearances there is no shot of him starting this year. I think that should be avoided at all costs.

  167. Rishi March 25th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    :arrow:

  168. BBFan March 25th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    I think people are reading too much into what Girardi said.

    But for one outing, whatever be the reason, Joba has been horrible this spring. So, he is being told that he has to earn the spot on ML club.

    In the next couple of outing he gets, if he does well he will be on the ML club. If he does not perform, he will be sent to AAA to iron out his issues.

    What is wrong with that?

  169. jason March 25th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    First time poster. I was in the Joba as the 5th starter camp, but Hughes showed me a ton of promise in his last start. true, he gave up the home runs from a few poorly located pitches. but the fb command, change up (at least plus pitch to me), and most importantly the confidence that he exuded really leads me to believe that this will be his break out season. Am i the only one who thought he looked like halladay (without the cut fb)?

  170. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes March 25th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Betsy, I don’t think that Hughes will continue to dissapoint people who expect him to throw 96. He doesn’t have to throw 96 to be effective.

    People on here just fluctuate their doubt about everything and everyone on a daily basis. Lots and lots of schizos on this blog, myself included.

    Phil deserved the shot, we all know this. The rest will take care of itself.

  171. vb03 March 25th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Pat M. March 25th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    I see where our old friend Ian Kennedy had another nifty outing….He’s going to be an season in season out 14-15 game winner…..I always thought that 2010 was going to be the season that Ian, Phil, & Joba were going to make their mark as good starters and rotation mainstays…..Joba is more a case of frustration for the club….There’s a wealth of talent in that right arm, how to transition that talent to maximize it for the betterment of the club and Joba is the key……

    ——————

    Sorry Pat, but I don’t think that Kennedy will ever be a 15 game winner, let alone a consistent one. His stuff just doesn’t translate to that kind of success. Joba should get his turn in the rotation when Pettitte rides off into the sunset, there’s nothing to fret about regarding him pitching in the pen now.

  172. Pat M. March 25th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Betsy, 13-7 , era 3.75 ..Young Master Hughes in 2010

  173. William Buckner March 25th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    CB,

    Thanks for the response!! I think the “family” is the 2008 injury combined with 2009 innings limit and change in his approach.

    This ended in a total lack of attacking approach.

    “He can get AAA hitters out throwing like he did last year. That’s not what the Yankees want or need.”

    This is totally a true statement. I saw both Hughes and Joba at AAA, living in Scranton. Pitching there does nothing for them.

    Sending a guy down is a wake up call. Not sure it’s attitude with Joba. More approach/confidence. AAA won’t help that.

  174. upstate kate March 25th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    congrats to Phil, hopefully people have patience w/ him, if/when he struggles. Hopefully Joba makes the most of his situation. I would still like to see him get a chance to start.

  175. stuckey (”its ok to agree to disagree”) March 25th, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    “In the biggest moment of his entire season, Joba gave up a home run to the awful Pedro Feliz in the 8th inning of the world series. Pedro Feliz.”

    I think this exemplies how Mariano Rivera has spoiled a generation of Yankee fans.

    One pitch doesn’t mean anything. One pitch never means anything. Doesn’t matter the situation, the pitcher, the hitter… it’s one pitch. It’s not indicative, or predictive.

    It doesn’t say anything about character or stuff. It’s just one pitch.

    Once upon a time, a pitcher that haunted and would continue to haunt the Yankees gave up a HUGE homerun that could have (and arguably should have) decided an entire World Series.

    One pitch NEVER means anything.

    Ever…

  176. Warning Track Power March 25th, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Pay no attention to Ian Kennedy and his impressive performances. He went to the N.L. Nowhere near as difficult as the AL, let alone the AL East.
    Imagine if CC was in the NL or any of the other Yankees starters.

  177. Jim March 25th, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    why are they listening to Kelly Clarkson in the Yankees clubhouse?

  178. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!!
    March 25th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
    GB I really have ambivalence, just as I had ambivalence about the female golfer insisting on playing in the men’s tour. I am a card-carrying feminist but at the same time recognize that there are biological differences between men and women, and one has to do with strength (although you couldn’t necessarily prove that by looking at female Russian bodybuilders. ) Are men’s bodies built to withstand getting hit by a baseball going 90 mph than a woman’s? I would think that’s a yes. The fact that she’s a pitcher might mitigate against that happening a lot. But then take it to the next step. How about the female 2B that signs the pro contract in Japan? How about her getting hit by balls? Do men run faster than women?, especially conditioned men? Probably. Does the 2B get thrown out at first more than any of the men because she can’t make it down the baseline fast enough?

    I think these things need to be considered.

    What do you think about those questions?

    ————————————————————

    she’s pretty much strictly a knuckleballer, but, size will be an issue. I think that she’s somewhere around 5 feet 4 inches and 120 pounds. She needs the reflexes to get out of the way, but, that shouldn’t be her issues, and she won’t be batting. It’ll just be interesting to watch, though. A lot of female softball pitchers have had sucess in exhibitions against ML players, though.

  179. CB March 25th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    Joba’s fastball was never straight when he was right. He always had a very nice downward plane on his fastball with a lot of late movement.

    That’s what made his fastball so elite – it wasn’t just upper 90′s – it was upper 90′s with location and life.

    That’s why he generated so many ground balls – that life made his fastball very heavy. That’s why he used to break so many bats.

    That all stopped in 2009. His fastball just didn’t have the same life.

    And Pedro Feliz is not a good hitter and has been getting worse the past several year. Most of all he’s become a poor to very poor power hitter – especially for a corner infielder.

    Feliz hit 12 home runs last year in one of the smallest ball parks in the majors while facing NL pitching. He had a .386 slugging percentage last year. .386. For comparison Brett Gardner had a .370 slugging percentage last year.

    That’s the guy who turned on Joba’s 96 mph fastball and blasted it in the world series. A guy with a .386 slugging percentage.

  180. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    I don’t mean that Phil will disappoint performance wise, but let’s face it. There are people that will never be satisfied with him because he doesn’t throw 96. It doesn’t mean a thing – we’ve seen Phil throw outstanding games with 91-93, 94 fastballs. I just think either people believe Phil used to throw 96 and now he doesn’t (not sure if this is true) or they WANT him to be more like Joba. Phil knows how to pitch – he’s got an aptitude for this. He can be a very, very successful starter with the stuff he has. Pat M, I would kill for those #s, lol.

  181. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 25th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Shame, I think we’re going to see Christian Garcia make incredible strides and in short order. Hell I think he could be in the starting rotation now. The New York Yankee starting rotation. So I think we will see him at AAA very soon.

  182. stuckey (”its ok to agree to disagree”) March 25th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    “Stuckey, if Phil is pitching like an average #5, he won’t be removed from the rotation even if the race is close in July/August.”

    Betsy, there is no such thing as an average #5. The typical performance of what ML teams usually get from the “last 25-30″starts in their rotation would shock you (think high 5/low 6 ERAs).

    The point, however is this – If the race is close, Hughes isn’t at least serviceable and the Yankees feel like they have a batter option, then a change might be made.

    Not likely, but there is no way Hughes has an iron clad promise to make 27-30 starts.

  183. Phil the Thrill March 25th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Yanks have relied heavily on their 6th starters over the past several years. That’s another reason why they should send Joba down and keep him stretched out.

  184. vb03 March 25th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    CB March 25th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    And Pedro Feliz is not a good hitter and has been getting worse the past several year. Most of all he’s become a poor to very poor power hitter – especially for a corner infielder.

    Feliz hit 12 home runs last year in one of the smallest ball parks in the majors while facing NL pitching. He had a .386 slugging percentage last year. .386. For comparison Brett Gardner had a .370 slugging percentage last year.

    That’s the guy who turned on Joba’s 96 mph fastball and blasted it in the world series. A guy with a .386 slugging percentage.

    ———————

    Does it really matter? It’s one mistake pitch, hardly indicative of anything.

    He blew away the two hitters before Feliz on the same fastball.

  185. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 25th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    5’4, 114. I would think that makes her a wisp in the wind! Don’t pitchers in Japan have to hit?

    I agree though, it’s going to be an interesting watch.

  186. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Garcia could be a fast mover, but, he’s got to prove that he can stay healthy before he gets a call to NY. He’s a dazzling talent, though.

  187. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Stuckey, oh – um, no, I did not mean Phil will be in the rotation if, by July he’s got a 6 ERA, lol.

  188. stuckey (”its ok to agree to disagree”) March 25th, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    CB,

    So weak hitters never beat good pitchers? Ever?

    I got a list of post-season moments just off the top of my head that suggests otherwise…

  189. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!!
    March 25th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
    5?4, 114. I would think that makes her a wisp in the wind! Don’t pitchers in Japan have to hit?

    I agree though, it’s going to be an interesting watch.

    ————————————————————

    She “towers” over the Twins AAA 2nd baseman Chris Cates, who’s 5 feet 3 inches tall and 140 pounds. Stamina will definately be her greatest issue, though. Japan also uses the DH.

  190. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 25th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    GB, I remember listening to games he pitched in his first ST and being absolutely blown away. (I have to admit that I annointed him future king at the time) and then came that awful game where he blew out his elbow, or whatever he did, and I was heartbroken. But dazzling stuff, yes. I hope and pray that this is his year.

  191. stuckey (”its ok to agree to disagree”) March 25th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    “why are they listening to Kelly Clarkson in the Yankees clubhouse?”

    “Since U Been Gone is a good f-n song.

  192. randy l. March 25th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    “A lot of female softball pitchers have had sucess in exhibitions against ML players, though.”

    gb7-
    i think joan joyce struck out mantle , williams, and aaron at different times in exhibitions.

    of course it was at softball distance which they weren’t used to but still.

    one of my closest female friends in college could outrun me easily. of course she was a sprinter on the us olympic team :)

    one sport i know that women can’t compete well against men is two person beach v-ball. a lot of the top players on the women’s tour trained on our beach in siesta key( sarasota) one winter and even the world’s champion team that year didn’t win a game against our good players.

    it takes too much strength to jump out of the sand.the men’s net is significantly higher than the women’s net.

    in baseball, i could see a woman pitcher making it someday, but the best place for women in the game is at the GM position.

    i mean ,why not, since playing experience isn’t valued any more.

    surely there are women as smart as brian and theo.

  193. randy l. March 25th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    “During her softball career, Joyce’s pitches were reportedly clocked at more than 116 mph (186 km/h), but Joyce disputes this and says her pitches “probably were in the 70s.” [2] In exhibition games, she struck out Ted Williams at Municipal Stadium in Waterbury, Connecticut in 1961 (also during a brief stint in 1966) and Hank Aaron in 1978.[1]“- wikepedia

    http://74.125.47.132/search?q=.....=firefox-a

  194. Lisa S March 25th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    What a sad day for the Yankees and Joba. The Yankees have done nothing but yank Joba all over the place. The past 3 years have been a joke for Joba. All the rules and limitations. For what??!! Just to put him back in the bullpen or send him back down to Triple A?! Thank you Dave Eiland and Joe Girardi for screwing up Joba. Niether one of them have the knowledge on how to develop young pitchers. I am appalled at the decision that Hughes is the 5th starter. Yeah, so he had a good spring. Big deal. AJ had a good spring last year but didn’t get his first win till June if my memory serves me correctly. I am just so sick of this whole Joba thing. It’s a sad sad sad day. But just watch…somebody will get injured in our starting rotation this year and guess who will be a starter again….Oh wait, I know! JOBA! That’s right…and the ruining of Joba’s career continues.

  195. Pam - A Tarheel Living in NYC March 25th, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    I’m Pam—long time reader, first time poster…and lifelong Yankees fan :)

    I’ve truly enjoyed reading the dialogue here regarding Phil vs. Joba, starter vs. reliever, etc.

    My personal feelings all along about Joba is that his strengths and talents can be found in the bullpen. I’ve always viewed starters and relievers as 2 separate entities that require different skill sets, different mentalities, and different strategies. I want Joba in the bullpen, but not because I think he’s a lousy starter–I want him in the bullpen because I think he’s lights out as a reliever. A couple of years ago, I had the same thought when Joba came onto the field in the 7th or 8th inning that I do when I see Mo come out in the 9th—”We got this!”

    It appears to me that a popular school of thought is that a reliever is a pitcher who couldn’t hack it as a starter and is hence “demoted” to a reliever. The “loser” of this competition between Joba and Phil was going to have to settle for a relief spot in the bulllpen.

    I’d love to hear opinions from those of you who agree with this school of thought. I disagree with it, but maybe you can teach me something about pitching. If I’ve misunderstood anything that’s been said, please feel free to tell me that, too.

    I’m not being smart or confrontational…I’m legitimately interested in knowing what you think about anything that I’ve said here. :)

  196. rational thinking March 25th, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    You are all acting like Joba is hitting 30 and losing out on something he has had for years. He is lucky to even be considered now for a spot. He should be in AAA still. He is still developing and when he works out the kinks and matures he will earn his place in the rotation. Phil Hughes has earned it. Joba has not. Joba has only shown consistency in the bullpen, most of the time.
    He has struggled as a starter. He may very well be a reliever. Mo started as a starter. Did you all whine when he was sent into the pen behind Wetteland. No, cause most of you were 5 then.

  197. igotid88 March 25th, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    Congrats Hughes!!! I’ve called it. I just hope if he has a couple of bad starts in a row. The Yankees and you guys don’t give up on him.


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