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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


No other card to play

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 25, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Brian Cashman said this morning that explored trade opportunities before releasing Chad Gaudin, but he found no match. Gaudin had clearly fallen out of the roster picture, and so the Yankees had little choice but to let him and his $2.95 million deal go.

“There isn’t another card for me to play,” Cashman said.

Because Gaudin’s contract wasn’t guaranteed, the Yankees will only pay  fraction of his salary — one-fourth, I believe — but they could have sent him to Triple-A if they were willing to pay the full amount.

“I’d like to have insurance like that,” Cashman said. “But it’s not realistic.”

Here’s Gaudin talking about being released. This session came literally minutes after he found out.

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• Another sign that Phil Hughes appears to be the Yankees fifth starter: He will start Friday’s game against the Phillies on short rest. Considering Joe Girardi has said he wants to transition his starters-turned-relievers into their bullpen roles, it would seem odd that Hughes would make another start if he hadn’t won the job.

• That said, Hughes said he still hasn’t been told that he’s the fifth starter. “I’m the wrong guy to be asking,” he said.

• Cashman said the Yankees would have to “make some real tough choices” in order to carry a second lefty this season. He also said the Yankees aren’t setup to carry two situational lefties, and he considers Damaso Marte a situational lefty on this team.

• A lot of the guys who were cut yesterday were brought back to big league camp today to play off the bench.

• Pitchers making today’s trip to Sarasota: Alfredo Aceves, Sergio Mitre, Chan Ho Park, Dave Robertson, Boone Logan, Jonathan Albaladejo, Amaury Sanit and Zack Segovia.

• Scheduled to play off the bench: C P.J. Pilittere, 1B Jose Gil, 2B Justin Snyder, SS Kevin Russo, 3B Ramiro Pena, LF Jon Weber, CF Greg Golson, RF David Winfree.

• C Neall French, INF Walter Ibarra and OF Edwar Gonzalez were also brought up from minor league camp to serve as just-in-case bench players.

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426 Responses to “No other card to play”

  1. teddy gbu March 25th, 2010 at 9:51 am

    who starts a guy on short rest in st. thats stupid

  2. Chip March 25th, 2010 at 9:54 am

    GC
    March 25th, 2010 at 9:47 am
    I’d love to know (earnestly) where this organization has developed the philosophy of shuttling its best prospects between the bullpen and rotation believing that its a sound plan for development. I see almost no precedent for it and ironically enough it looks like Cash has inspired Texas to go down a similarly disastrous road with Neftali Feliz.
    I also don’t see how anyone could think Joba working in a low pressure AAA environment where he could
    a) Regain his 2008 velocity at his own pace
    b) Spot his curve and change
    c) Attack hitters without any consequences
    would be less beneficial to him than pitching out of the bullpen. Using him out of the pen will simply encourage him to become a two pitch pitcher again, working with mechanics and a tempo that are not conducive to starting. Its unfortunate because the majority of these issues probably creeped up as bad habits during his Herculean 2007 run in the first place. This is a guy who had exceptional command as a starter until last year.
    ———————————–
    I agree with your argument.
    I think if the ultimate goal is for Joba to start in the Yankee rotation then there is a great deal of logic to letting him go back to AAA to develop those aspects of his game that he’s struggled with as a starter on the major league level and I don’t see how relieving is going to making him a better starter.

    That said, I think that this is as close as we’re going to get to the Yankees actually saying “Joba Chamberlain is not going to be a starter going forward.”

    Next year the Yankees will likely bring back Vazquez or Andy and whomever they don’t retain will be replaced either with a big time free agent (Cliff Lee) or another one of the starters working through the system.

  3. TheDrB March 25th, 2010 at 9:54 am

    I think it goes like this for performance chances:

    Gaudin:
    Good – 10%
    OK – 60%
    Bad – 30%

    Mitre:
    Good – 30%
    OK – 30%
    Bad – 40%

    So it’s all a maybe for these guys. But Mitre’s higher chance of being better than average makes him a slightly better risk in a relatively low-priority slot. Particularly at a third of the cost.

  4. TheDrB March 25th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    AAA is not going to happen for Joba or Phil. It is probably the smart way to go, it is incredibly logical, and has almost zero chance of becoming a reality. Joe G, like anyone working on a complex project, wants all of his best tools at hand.

  5. tex's friend March 25th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    at this point we can assume that if joba finds success back in the pen, he will be the one to eventually replace mo if he ever decided to hang it up (not hoping for that though). Melancon can be the 8th inning guy for Joba.

  6. tex's friend March 25th, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Robertson/Melancon/Joba. Will be a nasty 7-8-9 one day.

  7. Chip March 25th, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Blake –

    I’m sure confidence plays a part of it, but wouldn’t starting in the minors and seeing that he can get guys out there help with his confidence while at the same time allowing him to work on things that he won’t be able to work on out of the pen?

    I mean can you imagine the firestorm that will rain down if Joba gives up big runs late in the game, the Yankees lose and then in his post game Girardi makes comments similar to the ones he made the other day after Hughes gave up 3 HR to the Phillies, “Yeah we wanted him to work on his changeup and he stuck with it…”

  8. Jerkface March 25th, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Joba isnt going to replace Mo unless you think Mo is retiring in the next 3 years.

  9. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 9:59 am

    BryanHoch Expecting Joe Girardi to announce the fifth starter today in Sarasota. If it’s not Phil Hughes, it will be a major upset. nine minutes ago

  10. Rich in NJ March 25th, 2010 at 10:01 am

    The Yankees are trying to accomplish two, often contradictory, goals: 1) winning now; and 2) developing prospects.

    That has led to the shifting roles.

    Its a suboptimal way to develop talent (unless a starting prospect begins his ML career as a reliever, and then becomes a starter and remains in the rotation), but it’s really the result of not having four extremely dependable starters recently until this year.

    If Phil can establish himself as a starter, and they can have four dependable starters in the rotation for the next few years, there is no reason why the next fifth starter candidate (assuming he comes from inside the system), will have to be shifted back and forth.

  11. CountryClub March 25th, 2010 at 10:01 am

    I know it’s not going to happen, but could you imagine if they named Mitre the 5th starter? The blogging world would get out the pitch forks and torches (for good reason).

  12. Chip March 25th, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Tex,

    Yeah but how long do you leave Joba back there – I made this point a couple of days ago. Rivera’s apprenticeship to Wetteland lasted one season…Joba’s is going to go until Mo decides to walk away.

    Is it the smartest long term plan to turn this guy into Joel Zumaya?

    Given the sheer number of right handed power pitchers in the Yankee system, wouldn’t it make some sense to shop Joba and see if the club can bring back a young stud OF so that rather than sign Carl Crawford they can focus everything on bringing in Cliff Lee?

  13. MTU(aka GBURL) March 25th, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Repost

    GC-

    The where it came from is from the collective experience of those involved in the process.

    Many including former pitchers like Cone have said that the BP can be a vehicle to the Rotation, and a good prep for future starters.

    What I wonder about is wether the Yankees have already made up their mind that JC is best suited to be a reliever or future closer ?

    I do not know if that is the case and time will tell on that.

    IF, and only IF, they go that route will I be disappointed in the decision.

    Personally, I would not be satisfied with Joba as permanent BP guy without seeing him having more of an opportunity to start.

    Some think they have seen enough.

    Personally, I haven’t.

    Keep the faith. GBU till the end. :)

  14. MTU(aka GBURL) March 25th, 2010 at 10:05 am

    CC-

    Not me. I would laugh my a-s off. :)

  15. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 10:06 am

    CountryClub
    March 25th, 2010 at 10:01 am
    I know it’s not going to happen, but could you imagine if they named Mitre the 5th starter? The blogging world would get out the pitch forks and torches (for good reason).

    ****************************
    That would be the upset to end all upsets. ;)

  16. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 10:06 am

    They consider Marte a situational lefty? That’s very surprising.

  17. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 10:07 am

    Randy, and the start before that, IPK was blasted. If he has success in AZ, it’s because he’s in the NL.

  18. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 25th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    I don’t think this has as much to do with a flaw in the Yankees ways of developing prospects as it has to do with the particular situation that got as to where we are. Phil, Kennedy, and Joba being brought up before they were ready. That snowballed and got us to where we are today. It is a suboptimal way to be developing pitchers but probably the best we can have under the circumstances. I don’t think it’s the way they’ve been operating or would operate it in the future. JMO

  19. randy l. March 25th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    rich in nj-

    didn’t you question the other day signing gaudin for just spring training for the 800,000 or so it would cost ?

    you mentioned that money could have gone toward upgrading left field.

    i’d have to agree that with all the potential 5th starters that gaudin at 800 grand was expensive insurance.

    in retrospect, it does seem like a bad move now.

  20. Rich in NJ March 25th, 2010 at 10:09 am

    randy

    I get one right every now and then. :)

  21. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    Not sure what going on short rest for Phil accomplishes either as the Yanks don’t need a 5th starter for awhile.

  22. GC March 25th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    “Randy, and the start before that, IPK was blasted. If he has success in AZ, it’s because he’s in the NL.”

    Not true. Kennedy could have succeeded as a mid to back end type in the American League. He’s going to surprise a lot of people when he pitches towards the front of the Diamondbacks rotation.

  23. TheDrB March 25th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    I can’t guess at Joba’s motivations, but it seems he may have to makes some tough choices about his future for himself.
    As an ‘ok to good’ starter I’m sure he would make more money than he would as a ‘great’ reliever. Personally, I would take the opportunity to be ‘great’ at anything and run with it over a more lucrative opportunity to be average.

  24. Carlo March 25th, 2010 at 10:11 am

    Betsy – why would them calling marte a situation lefty surprise you?

    His splits versus left handed hitters are significantly better than versus RHH.

    With Chamberlain, Robertson, and Park as later inning capable guys and Marte as the only lefty in the pen, why would anyone think any differently?

  25. JK March 25th, 2010 at 10:11 am

    Gaudin is better than Mitre, but he isn’t 2.1M better. I have no problem with that move.

    I am a Joba starter guy but I realize that his problem is fastball command right now. He has the complete arsenal but his mechanics have been holding back his velocity and command.

    How do they iron out his mechanics?

    Some teams believe it’s best to start a pitcher so they can do more bullpen & dry sessions in between starts (ex. Buchholz with Sox last year).

    I think the Yankees believe the best way to get a pitchers mechanics back in order is constant repetition coming out the pen. That is what they did with Brackman last year.

    If they have plans for Joba to start long term, it should be no problem for him to pitch 170 innings next year @ age 25. He would be well past the danger zone age for pitchers (20-23). I also think it would be best for him to drop the curveball and just focus on fastball, slider & changeup.

  26. bru March 25th, 2010 at 10:11 am

    i think all the pieces are in place forus to get cliff lee or another top notch starter like becket,etc…

    our if is set & unless gardner fails terribly i can’t see spending on an of for the sake of pitching

    can you imagine

    cc
    lee
    burnett
    pettitte/vaz/hughes/joba/garcia

    better rotation than last year & this year

    dh posada/montero/

    catch velli/montero & posada a few games

    maybe romine in the of ??

  27. MTU(aka GBURL) March 25th, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Randy-

    The Yankees development plans for pitchers is the 64K dollar question.

    If you want to open that can of worms here I wish you luck.

    Of course I know you can
    handle the ensuing firestorm, and may even thrive on it. :)

  28. Keep it March 25th, 2010 at 10:12 am

    So if Kennedy does well it’s solely because he’s in the NL? Not because he’s recovered and found his groove and is living up the potential that everyone first saw in him? Just because he’s in the National League?

    Give the kid some credit. If he does well in Arizona, it’s because he has the talent. If he doesn’t, then even more kudos to Cashman.

  29. iJuice March 25th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    I might sound stupid for asking this question because I have very little baseball knowledge, but why can’t both Hughes and Joba share the 5th start? Let them each pitch 4 innings every 5th day. That way, there are no inning cap concerns. Each will see hitters at least twice so that they work on their secondary pitches. Isn’t that the ideal solution?

  30. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    GC, I don’t agree about IPK’s potential in the AL, but it doesn’t matter because I was fine with trading him for Granderson. If he does well out there, I don’t see how it’s on the Yankees. They have other, better arms in their organization and it’s hard to see where IPK fit into their plans.

  31. MTU(aka GBURL) March 25th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    GC-

    I agree with your sentiments on IPK as well.

    Gotta give to get though.

  32. CountryClub March 25th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Betsy,

    Kennedy has an advantage pitching in the NL, no doubt about it. But he’s a young pitcher and he should get the same level of patience a lot of us show Hughes and Joba.

    Since he’s far away from the AL, I hope he does well.

  33. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Keep it, well we obviously differ on how good IPK had the potential to be. I didn’t mean to come off so harsh, but IMO, IPK will be a better pitcher in the weak NL than he ever would have been in the AL. I didn’t see him as anything more than a #5 starter, maybe a #4.

  34. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Carlo, that doesn’t mean that Marte can’t get RH out, just that he’s better against lefties.

  35. JK March 25th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Keep it,

    Kennedy didn’t perform in his 39 innings in NY when he was 23 years old. So he’s already a bust in completely rational Yankees fans eyes.

  36. randy l. March 25th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    “The Yankees development plans for pitchers is the 64K dollar question.”

    mtu-

    since the mlb meter has been ticking on both hughes and joba for about three years each by the time they are fully developed starters, they will be free agents.

    isn’t the point of developing home grown starters that it is cheaper

    how is it cheaper if they become free agents so quickly because they come up early and relieve for a few years using up cheap years.

    i think the ideal plan for the yankees developing starters is to let teams like cleveland develop them and then have the yankees sign them as young free agents.

    it’s worked well with sabathia :)

  37. Frank March 25th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    “So if Kennedy does well it’s solely because he’s in the NL? Not because he’s recovered and found his groove and is living up the potential that everyone first saw in him? Just because he’s in the National League?”

    Little bit of everything is true. Starting anew somewhere else, playing in a more pitcher friendly league, and improved health/finding his groove would probably all be factors in a good year for IPK.

  38. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    CC, yes he should….but that doesn’t mean he has the same potential as they do. I do think the Yanks pushed IPK into a rotation spot in 2008 before he was ready, but still – a lot of his failures fall on him. Randy brought his name up to show that the Yankees don’t do a good job developing their young pitchers; I said all this about Kennedy because I’m not sure I agree with him.

  39. ADam March 25th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Mistake

  40. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Now the last point that Randy brings up is interesting. Phil would have been called up in September 2007 regardless, but I’ve always thought they rushed him in April of that year. They should have found some other pitcher on the market instead of rushing Phil. You could make the argument that Joba should have stayed right where he was in AAA, starting.

  41. GC March 25th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Anybody would perform better in the NL than in the AL. Doesn’t mean that he’s a better or worse pitcher for it.

    Kennedy, when right, displayed elite mechanics, mechanics so repeatable that his command was almost unfair in the minor leagues. Ignore the walks (his bb rate may not have been tremendous)- his ability to spot his fastball on the corners and high and low was almost unfair.

    I would hardly be surprised if he’s a better pitcher than Edwin Jackson this year, and goes something along the lines of 15-8 with a 3.80 ERA.

  42. Keep it March 25th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    I’m not even a big Kennedy fan, I just think he’s better than people view him. I’d give him up for Granderson any day. I would’ve done it when he was 22 and actually pitched well in his 19 big league innings.

  43. Jerkface March 25th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Melancon got interviewed on a website

    SJK: In your 16 innings, you posted a respectable 3.86 ERA. However, when we look a bit deeper into the numbers, it wasn’t the Mark Melancon we all know and love, particularly with the amount of walks (10 BB). For those of us who will never step foot on a major league field unless we jump the fence and later get taken down by security, did nerves affect you at all?

    MM: After all, we are humans and nerves are still a factor. More than anything my want to be in the big leagues created more nerves than anything. I didn’t want to leave, which may have caused me to think about it more than I should have.

  44. TheDrB March 25th, 2010 at 10:26 am

    “iJuice March 25th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    I might sound stupid for asking this question because I have very little baseball knowledge, but why can’t both Hughes and Joba share the 5th start? Let them each pitch 4 innings every 5th day. That way, there are no inning cap concerns. Each will see hitters at least twice so that they work on their secondary pitches. Isn’t that the ideal solution?”

    This has been brought up several times before, and it does rationally solve many of the problems with having to choose one of them to be the #5. It also gives the coaches a much greater opportunity to evaluate them both.

    However, it must not be a popular plan because no one seems to want to discuss it.

  45. CountryClub March 25th, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Betsy, I do agree with your 10:14 post.

  46. GC March 25th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    I’m not so sure Phil was rushed in April of 07. I read articles suggesting that Hughes would have been ready for the bigs in August of 06, and that if the Yankees were really shortsighted there would have been no doubt he would have given them a better chance to win against Detroit than Wright or a balky backed Johnson.

    He certainly looked ready for prime time against Texas in May. I think the hammy injury was a freak accident stemming from his attempt at the no-no and i think he’s been battling back from that ever since.

  47. teddy gbu March 25th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    kennedy had a poor attiude and his stuff not that good. he get creamed in the al

  48. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Keep it, that could be so. We saw him at his worst, that’s for sure (outside of those 3 starts in 2007). If he develops into a good pitcher, that speaks well of the Yankees. Again, I don’t think he had a future here so the move was actually a good one for him.

  49. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 25th, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Goodbye Gaudin-

    Best of luck!

  50. stuckey March 25th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    “who starts a guy on short rest in st. thats stupid”

    It isn’t if he’s being conditioned for the bullpen and his “start” will be 2 innings and Chamberlain will make his scheduled start on regular rest on Saturday…

    If I’m going down, Blake, I’m going down hard :-)

  51. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    GC, he looked superb in that Texas start , but we don’t know how he would have done afterwards. Though, in September of that year (after he struggled in his August return – no surprise), he was very good……so, I guess it’s fair to say that Phil would have held his own. For a 21 year old in the AL East, he ended up with very good numbers. The reason I say he was rushed is because the Yankees weren’t intending to call him up so soon…..and, he’d never faced a bases loaded situation in his life. It was just a very unfortunate thing that he got hurt…..and then in 2008; if he hadn’t, we wouldn’t be having this discussion about the 5th starter now.

  52. teddy gbu March 25th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    stuckey i join you in that fight, will lose with pride

  53. Frank March 25th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    “If he develops into a good pitcher, that speaks well of the Yankees.”

    Speaks better of Kennedy than it does the Yankees. Not to say that the Yankees did anything wrong in making the deal, but they get next to no credit for any development in Kennedy’s case.

  54. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    I don’t know whether keeping Mitre at the expense of Gaudin was the right move, but, it’s a matter of numbers….both roster and money. Overall, they are probably pretty close to the same guy. Mitre’s advantage was that Girardi has faith in his abilities for whatever reason. In the end, one had to do, and, I’m not sure that it really matters which one went.

    It does push the next line of starters up the list. I’d guess if a long man or starter is needed, Jason Hirsh gets the call after Hughes/Chamberlain.

  55. MTU (aka GBURL) March 25th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Stuckey-

    “If I’m going down, Blake, I’m going down hard”

    I have already visited that terrain, and explored the depths. :)

  56. pat March 25th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Maybe sometimes guys just have a better future somewhere else and the organization knows that and accepts that better than fans when they move them.

  57. Bronx Jeers March 25th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Yankees need to have more years like 2008 if they want to develop guys like IPK.

    But instead of it being a nasty surprise, they should just go ahead and schedule it. Say such n such year is going to be a “development season”. Like a 6 month version of spring training. Expect nothing in the way of competitiveness. Results won’t matter.

    Lower the ticket prices, cancel the ads and tell the media to stay home.

    Other MLB teams have been doing it for decades. Surely the Yanks can do it once in a while. :wink:

  58. G-Munny March 25th, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Pitchers making today’s trip to Sarasota: Alfredo Aceves, Sergio Mitre, Chan Ho Park, Dave Robertson, Boone Logan, Jonathan Albaladejo, Amaury Sanit and Zack Segovia.
    ————————————————————-

    How… HOW!?!?!!? is Albaladejo still a member of this organization? I’d rather pay Gaudin $2.95M to pitch in the minors than pay this guy $30k to be a groundskeeper.

  59. randy l. March 25th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    one thing we know is that the yankees will be developing one starter this year in the fifth spot in the rotation – either hughes or joba or ian kennedy. wait ,he’s been traded. i forgot( yes trisha that was for you).

    so either hughes or joba will get a good developmental year in.

    i just hope whoever gets the fifth spot gets it for the full year whether they hit bumps in the road or not.

  60. Rich on the 6 train March 25th, 2010 at 10:44 am

    They are bringing a lot of pitchers to Sarasota today. I guess as we get down to the wire some decisions are going to be made. I also suspect Aceves is not going more than 3 innings. I still wonder if Thames is a definite.
    Does anyone know if historically Marte is a slow starter. He has not been impressive at all.

  61. mdh March 25th, 2010 at 10:45 am

    I don’t get it — why release Gaudin at $3M/yr when Kei Igawa is still being paid millions more, and Igawa is absolutely not pitching in the majors?

  62. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    I don’t get how you came to that conclusion, Frank; IPK was in their system for years- and the Yankees would get no credit? I don’t agree.

  63. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Randy, that has to happen IMO. The Yankees can not let the spectre of the “loser” hover over the winner…..

  64. upstate kate March 25th, 2010 at 10:48 am

    ah Randy, you are such a terrier :)

    is anyone else having problems w/ this site? For the last few days it keeps freezing up on me. only this site, not others.

  65. stuckey March 25th, 2010 at 10:49 am

    “I don’t get it — why release Gaudin at $3M/yr”

    They’re not. They only owe him $800k if released now.

  66. Keep it March 25th, 2010 at 10:49 am

    I don’t get it — why release Gaudin at $3M/yr when Kei Igawa is still being paid millions more, and Igawa is absolutely not pitching in the majors?
    ————————————-
    Because with releasing Gaudin they only have to pay him 25% of the 2.9 mil.

    They’d still owe Kei his full deal.

  67. randy l. March 25th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    “is anyone else having problems w/ this site? For the last few days it keeps freezing up on me. only this site, not others.”

    upstate kate-

    i was having the same problem. crawdaddy was yesterday.

    i switched from my usual safari to firefox today and have no problem now. i’m on a mac.

  68. Frank March 25th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    “I don’t get how you came to that conclusion, Frank; IPK was in their system for years- and the Yankees would get no credit? I don’t agree”

    Betsy, he came from USC the polished product. Stuff wasn’t special, but his mechanics and command were already there. He pitched one full season in the Yankees system before Cashman and co. handed him a role in the starting rotation he probably wasn’t ready for. I’d give them credit for a nice pick late in the 1st round, but I don’t see where they did anything to make him better.

  69. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2010 at 10:53 am

    mdh
    March 25th, 2010 at 10:45 am
    I don’t get it — why release Gaudin at $3M/yr when Kei Igawa is still being paid millions more, and Igawa is absolutely not pitching in the majors?

    ————————————————————

    Because Igawa has a guaranteed contract.

  70. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 25th, 2010 at 10:54 am

    “Maybe sometimes guys just have a better future somewhere else and the organization knows that and accepts that better than fans when they move them.”

    Yes

  71. randy l. March 25th, 2010 at 10:54 am

    “I don’t get how you came to that conclusion, Frank; IPK was in their system for years- and the Yankees would get no credit? I don’t agree.”

    betsy-

    i agree with you. if ian kennedy becomes a big star with arizona i think brian cashman should get all the credit :)

  72. MTU (aka GBURL) March 25th, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Randy-

    I didn’t know you went on Safari. How was it ? :)

  73. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Frank, fair enough.

    LOL Randy – I knew you’d come around. Wait, you went on a safari?

  74. Wave Your Hat March 25th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    “i’d have to agree that with all the potential 5th starters that gaudin at 800 grand was expensive insurance.

    in retrospect, it does seem like a bad move now.”

    In retrospect, Cashman should have non-tendered Chad and re-signed him for a lower number. I guess Cashman just misjudged the market for Chad. Cashman’s allowed to do that occasionally.

    Gaudin is probably a better pitcher than Mitre, and he’ll catch on somewhere though for less $$.

  75. Bronx Jeers March 25th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Hunting down stat geeks and Torre bashers is considered a safari now? :wink:

    cool.

  76. m March 25th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    First of all, sorry (again) about Chad. Hope he finds a big, lovely park to call home.

    Second, I agree with the person who said they hate that Sherman is speaking as if Hughes as the #5 is fact. Not once does he attribute anything to the elusive “anonymous source.” That being said, he seems to have some juice in the organization because he’s been spot on this winter on more than one occasion.

    His 3 up, 3 down had an interesting (albeit dubious) situation. He’s claiming that as late as this week the decision had come down to Ace v. Hughes rather than Joba v. Hughes. If you’re an Ace fan, and want to read (finally) what a lot of us have been thinking about him just follow the link: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....o4zXncHfoL

    3. Lastly, if Hughes is the winner I think a large part of their decision is to see if Hughes can be a full-time starter in the majors. If he can, then it makes things a lot easier in the off-season with decisions on Andy, Javy, and even Cliff Lee. Joba, Hughes, and Ace could presumably fill any holes we might have next season.

  77. Frank March 25th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    “In retrospect, Cashman should have non-tendered Chad and re-signed him for a lower number. I guess Cashman just misjudged the market for Chad. Cashman’s allowed to do that occasionally.”

    Were Cashman to non-tender Gaudin, wouldn’t he have become a free agent?

  78. Ron March 25th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    I like Cash’s quote. He is 1 confident dude and a great GM. http://www.nomaas.org always has great quotes and depictions of Cashman.

  79. Wave Your Hat March 25th, 2010 at 11:06 am

    “Were Cashman to non-tender Gaudin, wouldn’t he have become a free agent?”

    Yes, but since we are all Yankee fans here I assume Chad would have wanted to stay a Yank!

  80. MTU (aka GBURL) March 25th, 2010 at 11:06 am

    When Cash and Randy go on safari they are both big game hunters ! ;)

  81. randy l. March 25th, 2010 at 11:08 am

    “I didn’t know you went on Safari. How was it ?”

    MTU-

    well, i’ve seen some strange creatures- big mouthed stuckeys, man eating trishas, and saber lgys.

    i’m taking lessons from gb7 on shooting a blunderbuss so i’m better prepared for the next sarari.

    the only problem with those blunderbuss lessons are that they are in the form of gb7 shooting at me.

    gb7′s lessons while unorthodox are highly effective.

  82. m March 25th, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Oh, and I think I like option #2 the best (not sure, but I think so).

    I think they want to protect Hughes a bit so that he doesn’t hit the proverbial wall in the late summer or when he hits 100 innings or so (whichever comes first).

    Those who say that Wang affected Joba are right. I would’ve preferred that they let Joba go strong in the beginning and finish in the bullpen if he hit any caps. But Wang going down forced them to conserve Joba for any post-season scenario.

    But, this year we have Javy, so the situation is different. Hopefully, we won’t HAVE to depend on Hughes in the postseason because that means something went awry.

  83. MTU (aka GBURL) March 25th, 2010 at 11:12 am

    Randy-

    “i’m taking lessons from gb7 on shooting a blunderbuss so i’m better prepared for the next sarari.

    the only problem with those blunderbuss lessons are that they are in the form of gb7 shooting at me.

    gb7’s lessons while unorthodox are highly effective.”

    Randy. I am sure GB has seen it all. The blunderbuss is just one weapon. Being what he is he was also trained in subterfuge. ;)

  84. randy l. March 25th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    “Being what he is he was also trained in subterfuge ”

    mtu-

    just don’t ask him to spell it :)

  85. MTU (aka GBURL) March 25th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Randy-

    And if I am too polite to you, or others he may turn it on me.

  86. MTU (aka GBURL) March 25th, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Gotta run and find some more peace in the G-dZone.

    Please give PH my congrats ! I will check in later. :)

  87. steveoh March 25th, 2010 at 11:22 am

    It seems Hughes has done just fine being a reliever all last year and transitioning to a starter this year. He did not forget how to throw his secondary pitches and even added a changeup. Joba will be fine, and I’m sure he’d much rather be a major league reliever than a minor league starter.

  88. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 11:23 am

    M, I was more annoyed at YES for having a headline that could be Dewey beats Truman (It’s Hughes). They based that on Sherman’s article……but they’ve taken that headline down.

    I’m guessing Randy did not go on an actual safari, lol.

  89. liz March 25th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    what time will the game be today?

  90. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 25th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    “Joba will be fine, and I’m sure he’d much rather be a major league reliever than a minor league starter.”
    *****************

    I’m sure he wouldn’t. He prbly feels jerked around right now.

  91. m March 25th, 2010 at 11:31 am

    liz,

    1:05

  92. liz March 25th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    thanks m.

  93. SJ44 March 25th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Brandon,

    nobody would rather be in the minors after getting a taste of the majors.

    Joba will be fine. He will be infinitely better than the posters who will lose their minds over the decision.

  94. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Looks like we have a winner:

    Joelsherman1 Girardi officially announce hughes is #yankees fifth starter 10 seconds ago

  95. austinmac March 25th, 2010 at 11:36 am

    The Yankees have clearly demonstrated budget restraint. The nearly $1.4M savings from Mitre to Gaudin(Gaudin’s $2.95M less Mitre’s $.9M and Gaudin’s $.7M buyout)does matter very much. I would rather have that money to get a player in July than to have Gaudin instead of Mitre. Frankly, I doubt the no. 12 pitcher will be all that significant.

  96. pat March 25th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Girardi on joba in 8th inning: “you have to earn your spot.” Translation: yes
    2 minutes ago via UberTwitter

  97. Chris Nightingale March 25th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    I wish Phil the best of luck. I don’t understand how they came to this decision at all.

    One can only wonder how this would have played out differently had the Yankee bullpen not been awful in 2007.

  98. NYY626 March 25th, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Wow, congrats Phil! Anyone else baffled ( even more now) by the Joba rules last year though?

  99. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Joelsherman1 Girardi on joba in 8th inning: “you have to earn your spot.” Translation: yes about 1 minute ago

  100. m March 25th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    liz,

    I only knew because last night I went to look what time the game was. Because they said they were going to make the announcement after the game. But look at that, they lied. Again. :P

  101. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Brandon, you could easily say the same about Phil; he hasn’ exactly had the smoothest road. As much as I fret about this, I fret a LOT more than Phil does publicly – or even Joba. Whatever they feel, they are good soldiers.

    I got what I wanted and congrats to Phil, but I do feel for Joba because I’m sure he’s disappointed. That is not to say that he won’t take being put in the pen as a challenge and just be unbelievable – I hope he is and I hope he can regain what he had so he and Phil end up as a dynamic duo. It’s still got to sting a little. I’m glad they are friends – and I’m thrilled that this competition brought out the best in both of them.

  102. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Congrats to Phil :)

  103. Dassit March 25th, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Joba to the pen or AAA?

  104. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Joelsherman1 Girardi: “I think Joba could do either job, but right now we feel Hughes is ahead as a starter.” 2 minutes ago

  105. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Phil started out in the 6th/7th and I guess that’s how the Yankees are going to use Joba. That’s fine because he can pitch multiple innings. If Joba thrives in the pen, we’re going to hear about why he should remain there. The Yankees will ignore them, as they should, until they come to their OWN conclusion about Joba. If they feel Joba can still be a top starter, then that is where he will be eventually.

  106. MIke RI March 25th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Joba ! Don’t sweat it . Your in good hands with Mo.

    Theres nothing wrong with being the future closer of the Yanks !

    Good Luck to you as well !

  107. randy l. March 25th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    excellent.

    the tumblers fall into place.

    now hughes and joba can proceed with knowing their roles.

  108. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Clearly Phil’s change was HUGE in him winning the spot; he obviously worked hard on it. I think it was the idea that he used it even when Joe said the competition was “on” and he didn’t have to that impressed them as well. He certainly got comfortable with the change quickly. Now all he has to do is gain consistency/improve his curve and cutter, get his FB command back to where he wants it to be and he’s good to go, lol.

    Phil will have his ups and downs and I hope the Yankees have truly committed to him (unless he completely blows up). They have to give him a chance to have his growing pains.

  109. tex's friend March 25th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    is joe playing coy with joba in the 8th inning? just say, joba is 8th inning guy.

  110. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Joelsherman1 Girardi would not say Hughes’ injury cap, but can assume it will be more than Joba’s last year. My guess is 175ip #Yankees one minute ago

    I’m assuming he means innings cap and not injury cap ;)

  111. tex's friend March 25th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    joba must have a complex. i know he says he doesnt care he just wants to play, but this constant moving and joba rules and moving back has to be mentally draining.

  112. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Girardi says the development of Hughes’ changeup was big deal in winning 5th spot #Yankees

    Girardi would not say Hughes’ injury cap, but can assume it will be more than Joba’s last year. My guess is 175ip #Yankees
    3 minutes ago via UberTwitter

    ***From Joel Sherman

  113. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 11:47 am

    LOL Injury cap…….

  114. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Joelsherman1 Girardi says the development of Hughes’ changeup was big deal in winning 5th spot #Yankees about 1 minute ago

  115. SJ44 March 25th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    See Betsy what happens when you are patient! LOL

    This is the right move. Now, it’s time for both guys to do their thing.

  116. pat March 25th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    “just say, joba is 8th inning guy.”

    Why? He will be some days, he won’t be others and giving people titles sometimes leads to complacency.

  117. Rich March 25th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Wouldn’t shock me if the delayed announcement is because Cash is trying to trade Joba.

  118. Brandon Awesome (B/c I'm more AWESOME than RAW w/ no Miz) March 25th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    “Theres nothing wrong with being the future closer of the Yanks !”

    He doesn’t want that, he’s been saying that. This isn’t going to be smooth at all. I know everyone prbly thinks happy days, there is no way Joba is happy today, he’s still thinking what the hell the Joba Rules were about, and GI Joe still didn’t make it known what his role is.

  119. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 11:50 am

    tex’s friend
    March 25th, 2010 at 11:45 am
    is joe playing coy with joba in the 8th inning? just say, joba is 8th inning guy.

    ************************
    I think it’s better that he didn’t just hand him the 8th inning. JMO

  120. B KING March 25th, 2010 at 11:50 am

    I just simulated an the entire 2010 season with MLB2010 for PS3.
    Sony has the Yankees winning the AL East, Tampa Bay with the Wild Card. Boston SOL.
    AROD hits 50 HR 130 RBI, wins MVP
    CC Wins 18 and the CY Young

    BTW, they also have Boston trading John Lackey for Ted Lilly and David Ortiz for Adam Dunn. Hmmmmmmm…….

    Sounds good to me.

  121. SJ44 March 25th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    Perhaps he doesn’t. Perhaps he likes pitching in the pen.

    Perhaps he feels like working in the pen will get him back to what he was.

    Always dangerous to assume players feelings.

  122. Erin March 25th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    New Post: It’s Hughes

  123. Chip March 25th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    There’s another reason besides the money that Gaudin is gone and Mitre remains:

    Joe Girardi.

    How many times in the last two years has Girardi gone out of his way to lavish praise on Mitre. He’s talked time and again about how impressed he was with Mitre when he had him with the Marlins.

    I truly believe that Girardi believes Mitre is a better pitcher than Gaudin and given the choice would rather use Mitre as an emergency starter than Gaudin.

    From a pure “stuff” standpoint he’s probably right. Mitre has more pitches and better velocity than Gaudin, though it obviously hasn’t translated into major league performance.

    That said, I wouldn’t worry too much about Gaudin, I’m sure he’ll find a soft landing somewhere.

    On another note; I threw out the suggestion of possibly moving Joba in a deal if his immediate future is in the pen and if the plan is to just keep him in the 8th until Mo is no longer around – well here are a few names I would consider viable targets if the Yankees opted to make Joba available:

    Josh Hamilton (Imagine the damage a 3, 4, 5 of Tex, Alex and Hamilton could do)

    Mike Stanton – Florida Marlins

    Carlos Gonzalez – Colorado Rockies

  124. teddy gbu March 25th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    i would to congrat cashman and giradri on how to develop young starting pitching.

    forget developing them just pen them and buy them.

  125. tex's friend March 25th, 2010 at 11:53 am

    just say, joba is 8th inning guy.”

    Why? He will be some days, he won’t be others and giving people titles sometimes leads to complacency.

    ___

    The set up role should be defined also. I have to agree, this may be what’s best, but joba must be unhappy about this, especially since they screwed around with him most of the last 2 years.

    And we dont know he would be the future closer. Mo is still the best in the game. Joba can’t stay in the 8th inning forever.

    For all the good the yankees do and that they are, you get situations like joba and wang that just make you scratch your head sometimes thinking why did they do this that way.

  126. SJ44 March 25th, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Actually, he hasn’t said that Brandon. He said he’s fine with either role.

    He’s not on the trading block. Find another conspiracy theory.

  127. MIke RI March 25th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Brandon

    He doesn’t want that, he’s been saying that. This isn’t going to be smooth at all. I know everyone prbly thinks happy days, there is no way Joba is happy today, he’s still thinking what the hell the Joba Rules were about, and GI Joe still didn’t make it known what his role is.

    – Its obvious what his role is. IF he pitches well . .he’ll be the 8th inning guy , and our future closer. He’s still very young and MO won’t be around forever.

  128. m March 25th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Joe not exactly sensitive there. On the day Joba loses the starting job, he’s told he has to earn the EIG spot. Maybe he could’ve said, “We haven’t sorted out the bullpen yet.” or “That will figure itself out.”

    Of course Joba’s disappointed, but going to bullpen with Mariano will do wonders. He’s a terrific pitching coach.

  129. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 25th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    SJ, good things come to those who wait, huh? LOL

    I feel badly that by rooting for Phil, I was implicitly rooting against Joba, but I liked Phil before I knew who Joba was. One reason I wanted this is because I felt the injuries he suffered were really frustrating set backs. He’s had to deal with fans, scouts and pundits jumping off his bandwagon and with the idea that he was going to possibly be traded for Santana. It just has been a bumpy ride for Phil, something no one could have forseen when he was called up in 2007. I also admit that I want Phil to vindicate those who believe that you don’t need to throw 98 MPH to be a terrific starter – never mind merely a “good” one.

    I also want Joba to be absolutely fantastic in his role. I want him to be a great starter as well, not only so that we can have 2 super-talented kids in the rotation for a long time, but to shut the Francescas of the world up.

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