Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 26, 2010 
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The most debated competition in Yankees camp is over. Phil Hughes has been named the team’s fifth starter, moving Joba Chamberlain, Sergio Mitre and Alfredo Aceves in to the bullpen mix.
As part of the decision-making process, Chad Guadin was released. He was the fifth of five candidates, and the Yankees realized they were not going to have room for him. The notebook also has items on Alex Rodriguez leaving for a few days, Aceves struggling against the Orioles and the decision of whether to carry a second lefty reliever.
He’s also saying (1) that the pen is more important than the rotation, which is asinine and implying that (2) Phil is too dumb be a starting pitcher because he showed last year he did well when he didn’t have to think. Unbelievable, lol..
I didn’t want to make a big deal about this, but Cash was quote as saying the reason why he didn’t want to send Gaudin to AAA is because he didn’t want to have to read about how his team’s AAAA team has a bigger payroll than some major league teams. It’s fine if Cash didn’t want the $$$ on the payroll, but I really would hope he’s not making decisions based on what other teams/mediots think.
Well, I think this is Phil’s time. I’m not expecting him to put up great #s as I’m sure he will have his struggles, but the Yankees have clearly committed to him as a starter (not just for this year) and I think at least by the end of the year, we will see why he was so highly touted. He wanted this badly and worked hard, so congratulations to Phil. I think he’s right about the competition bringing out the best in everyone and that’s to their credit. You can’t teach a lot of things, but not competitiveness.
Can we improve upon Thames before the season starts ?
Yesterday Cash was quoted as saying that he still had his eyes open looking to see what might become available before the season starts.
He has a few extra dollars in his pocket after Gaudin’s departure.
Does he pull another small rabitt out of the hat ?
Let’s see what happens.
Betsy-
I don’t see why Phil wouldn’t be able to acquit himself very nicely provided that we don’t get our expectations for him too high.
IMO he will have some great games and some terrible ones.
Part of the learning process.
If he makes that CU the kind of weapon we all hope it can be he will become a force to be reckoned with.
Let’s just keep in mind the fact that learning on the job in the AL east is one of the most difficult things a young pitcher could do.
The path has been cleared for him to shine. The more the better.
Um, I have no idea if this is true, but if it is, it doesn’t speak that well of Joba’s state of mind.
On NYYFans, where the flame throwing is still going on, some poster said he met Joba at an autograph signing yesterday. He told Joba he was sorry he lost the 5 spot and Joba replied “It’s stupid, but what can I do”. He might feel that way, but I don’t think it’s wise to be telling everyone that and I hope that subconsciously this doesn’t affect his pitching. It was not a stupid decision by any means, Joba.
Betsy,
it’s Chad Gaudin, not Cy Young. He’s just a guy.
They couldn’t send him to the minors without fully guaranteeing the deal.
3 million dollars is to expensive of an insurance to have for what he brings to the table. It’s not realistic.
As far Thames, he’s the 25th guy on the roster. If he doesn’t hit during the season, it’s easy to release him.
Way too much angst over the 24th and 25th spots on the roster. Neither spot will have any significant impact on the teams fortunes this year.
well going back cashman track record. hughes will be pen in 2011.
i guess this how cashman developments program works
Betsy:
I sort of assumed Cashman was being facetious when he referenced the AAA payroll. In the end, there was really no logical argument for keeping him around at that kind of money. I think Cashman recognized that, as did the 29 GM’s who refused to pluck him off waivers and assume his $2.9M.
Betsy-
That’s just hearsay, and it sounds like BS to me.;)
MTU, I don’t think he will have that many terrible games, but he’ll have a few – and probably mix in some medicore games where he can’t go past 5. The important thing is the Yankees believe in him and he doesn’t have to worry that he’ll be removed from the rotation if he struggles. I’d like to see him get that curve down consistently because he’s got a very good one when it’s on (and I do love a good curve). I don’t know how good the CU is right now; I think it’s probably still a work in progress. I’m sure he’ll get beat a few times on it, lol. At least, though, we know it’s got potential to be a very good pitch for him.
it was stupid joba the better starter. he has the better numbers, he been able to tske the bsll hughes hasn’t.
cashman and giradri drunk the koolaid on meaningless spring training stats
SJ, I’m sort of over the decision, but I was talking in general. I don’t think Cash (and I never believed he did) should care what anyone thinks about the payroll on the Yankees or any of their farm teams.
am I the only one hoping that Arod’s meeting with feds goes as smoothly as possible?
Arod, please answer every question as truthfully as possible so that we can begin our basbeball season and put this crap behind us. Pretty please, with sugar on top.
“He told Joba he was sorry he lost the 5 spot and Joba replied “It’s stupid, but what can I do”.”
Just some immaturity from a young man who’s a bit disappointed. Wouldn’t worry too much about it…..so long as that’s not his stated position with the press.
I’m not worried at all about Thames; I don’t think he’s done, he’s just having a very bad spring.
MTU, that’s probably so. I did say that I don’t know if it’s true – the fan probably just wants to get everyone all upset again, lol. It will probably work.
Betsy-
He’s gonna need to keep working that CU in. He is going to need it. Even with Phil’s outstanding C and C an excellent FB and Curve wont be enough.
I know he uses the cutter also but the CU helps unlock the Kingdom IMO.
Benny, I’m not worried about Alex…
I would that “quote” with a grain of salt because the chances of that being true is zero.
Betsy,
a friendly word if advice…..
Your guy is the fifth starter. The Yankees aren’t changing their mind today or anytime soon on the decision.
It doesn’t matter what bloggers say, the media, or anybody else. Phil Hughes is the fifth starter.
Enjoy it and don’t get yourself crazy over stuff that doesn’t matter.
I had been hoping that Gaudin could be traded for a right-handed hitting outfielder. I realize now that his relatively high salary made that impossible. Too bad.
I like Gardner, but Gardner, Thames, and Winn are all question marks. The Yanks might need, not one, but 2 or 3 new outfielders.
SJ, this is where the internet is a difficult thing to maneuver around. I’m not upset at all – I just posted that in a very matter-of-fact way. Just FYI – not everything I post is posted while I’m overwrought.
I’m not worried about Thames either but if an upgrade happens to fall into cashman’s lap ?
“it was stupid joba the better starter. he has the better numbers, he been able to tske the bsll hughes hasn’t.
cashman and giradri drunk the koolaid on meaningless spring training stats”
In a Jules from Pulp Fiction tone, I ask the following:
English motherf*@ker! Do you speak it?
MTU, I’m not suggesting he drop his change at all….
LOL the NY Post has a headline saying Alex’ legacy is on the line……..sheesh.
want a cookie frank.
does that work for english
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....keDnF8YA0J
2. The Yankees do not seem nearly as uptight about Phil Hughes’ inning restrictions this year as they were about Joba Chamberlain’s last year. My hunch is that he will be held to about 175 innings and it seems the Yanks feel they can accomplish that by weaving in extra rest or a skipped start or two over the long season.
I would suspect you will see something similar to what the Tigers did last year in Rick Porcello’s rookie season when the righty threw 170.2 innings in 31 starts. Detroit was restrained in Porcello’s pitch count and particularly used the All-Star break to give Porcello a midseason, two-week rest.
What I don’t think you will see is the Yanks use the volume of early off-days to skip Hughes much, if at all, in April. Joe Girardi fears over-loading his veteran starters in an attempt to protect Hughes. He is particularly mindful to use off-days whenever possible to also protect 37-year-old Andy Pettitte.
The Yanks also do not seem willing to send Hughes down until they need a fifth starter on April 17. They have a concern about having Hughes go to a different atmosphere away from their eyesight even for two weeks as a preparation to face big leaguers.
Betsy-
I wasn’t suggesting that you said PH should drop his CU.
I was actually making the opposite point that he will need it going forward to take it to the next level.
Betsy,
I will remain positive. I’m just tired of these stupid meetings thats all.
Besty,
I will remain postive. I’m just tired of all these stupid meetings thats all.
Real Baseball starts soon.
And the Yanks have to be odds on favorites to repeat.
They are going to field a very strong team this year.
Bring it on !
Betsy – Romine wasn’t built in a day
March 26th, 2010 at 8:39 am
LOL the NY Post has a headline saying Alex’ legacy is on the line……..sheesh.
******************************
I know, I just saw that too. My reaction was:
“LOL the NY Post has a headline saying Alex’ legacy is on the line……..sheesh.”
Hasn’t that horse already left the barn? I’ve got no worries on this thing today. Just go and answer the questions truthfully today and this whole thing disappears by Monday. I don’t see this being any trouble for Arod.
Ignore it.
“I would suspect you will see something similar to what the Tigers did last year in Rick Porcello’s rookie season when the righty threw 170.2 innings in 31 starts. Detroit was restrained in Porcello’s pitch count and particularly used the All-Star break to give Porcello a midseason, two-week rest.”
I mentioned the Porcello model yesterday and agree with this 100%.
Betsy not worrying about Alex has me worried.
Joel Sherman isn’t the greatest guy in the world. However, he has broken, and been on top of, every Yankee move since December. His work has been outstanding.
Re: Alex, he’s right. Lie to the Feds and he’s done.
Tell the truth, it’s nothing.
That’s the gist of the column and it’s hard to argue with it, IMO.
last game of the ALDS on as a Yankee Classic if you’re interested…
May not be hard to argue with just written numerous times since the alleged connection was revealed. I know it is meet with Feds day, maybe they should have said their big “could be something, could be nothing” articles. Now it is just played out. Tell us something we don’t know.
I sure hope Phil develops as good a “takedown” move as Porcello.
Flipping Youkilis to the ground like that was a thing of beauty.
*saved not said
Only thing worse than talking to the feds is talking to the feds in Buffalo. Jeez! They couldn’t meet with him in DC or something?
Tala08
March 26th, 2010 at 9:07 am
May not be hard to argue with just written numerous times since the alleged connection was revealed. I know it is meet with Feds day, maybe they should have said their big “could be something, could be nothing” articles. Now it is just played out. Tell us something we don’t know.
*****************************
Totally agree
I admit I didn’t read the article, SJ – I just saw the headline, lol. If that’s the gist of it, then I agree. I think Alex will be fine – no sense worrying about it. If he has nothing to hide, he’s got nothing to worry about.
I do have to take back much of what I said yesterday about Hughes’ innings being an issue because I really did not think they would feel comfortable with him going to 175.
But, it really bothers me that after the disaster that was trying to limit Joba’s innings last year, they are once again proceeding into the season with no plan for Hughes.
The problem with using the ASB is that if Phil is pitching well, do you really want to shut him down? I’d rather cut his innings early, when his FB won’t even be at its best (because Phil prefers warmer weather anyway).
Who’s to say they don’t have a plan? They clearly will have a plan – they aren’t going to fly by the seat of their pants. If Sherman is right about the Yankees preferring not to have Phil out of their sights (in AAA), then they most definitely have a plan. His arm is gold to them – they won’t do anything to mess it up.
From the previous thread….
Enjoy the game Chad! We used to have a group of guys back in the day that would get together once or twice a month in a 10 acre area and have at it. We had this one sicko that used to freeze his paintballs beforehand to make them hurt a little more.
I had the whole package…. gun, mask, CO2 tank, paintball feeder, extra paintball canister, head-to-toe camouflage, the works.
I remember burying myself in a pile of leaves and just waiting for unsuspecting victims to come close, then showing no mercy shooting them multiple times. I used to climb trees and pick guys off from above also. Great great times. I think I still have all that stuff somewhere.
Makes me want to call the old crew and organize a reunion game. Its been a few years…
I played paintball once while I was in the Army. It was a fun Sergeant’s Time Training exercise. Fat bruise on my thigh. Not the most pleasant feeling. But it was a blast.
What are you talking about? They do have a plan.
Just because they didn’t hold a PC to announce it isn’t evidence if no plan.
It’s been explained to you over and over how innings limits work and how to approximate Hughes’ innings for 2010.
Just because you rejected the idea isn’t evidence the Yankees have no plan for Hughes.
“Who’s to say they don’t have a plan? They clearly will have a plan – they aren’t going to fly by the seat of their pants. If Sherman is right about the Yankees preferring not to have Phil out of their sights (in AAA), then they most definitely have a plan. His arm is gold to them – they won’t do anything to mess it up.”
———————————
We heard the same type of quotes at this time last year about Joba. The Yankees might do this, they might do that. They proceeded into the season with no concrete plan and just played it by ear. If it had been Hughes’ job all along they would have had a set plan by now. It does not take very long to come up with one. Cashman has also said he is just going to leave it to Girardi and Eiland to “figure it out.” Which says to me, they have no desire to sit down as a group, develop a plan, and stick to it. He is going to let Girardi make the decision based on how the year is going, just like last year.
Joba’s arm was considered gold to them last year and they flew by on the seat of their pants in regard to his innings.
The current staff also demonstrated last year that even if they do have a plan they are not necessarily going to stick to it.
There were set recommendations for A-Rod’s recovery last year. He is their $30 million man coming off of hip surgery, but Cashman had to step in and basically force Girardi to give him 2 days off in Florida.
If only Kevin Russo could track a ball in a corner OF spot, the Thames question wouldn’t exist but a 25th man shouldn’t be of high significance for this Yankee team.
Boston for example, will have a wasted roster spot all year in Jason Varitek.
“The problem with using the ASB is that if Phil is pitching well, do you really want to shut him down?”
It’s not really shutting him down in the truest sense. Ideally, the five games leading up to the ASB will be Hughes on 7/7 in Oakland, followed by Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte and Vazquez pitching the 4 games series in Seattle before the break (7/8-7/11). The break is 4 days long for the Yankees, so they come back with Sabathia on 7/16, followed by Burnett, Pettitte and an off day. Then Vazquez on 7/20 and Hughes on 7/21. That gives Hughes a two week “vacation”, during which he will undoubtedly get some work in via side sessions/bullpens, and will head into the 2nd half well rested. It’s a smart move, IMO.
I don’t see what difference it makes if it was Phil’s job all along or not. Eiland mentioned yesterday that Joba was not supposed to be the #4 starter, but he ended up being just that thanks to Wang’s problems. As a result, they couldn’t take care of him like they would have preferred. I think they also learned from last year. I trust the Yankees – I don’t always agree with them, but I trust them.
Frank, I wouldn’t have a problem with that
“It does not take very long to come up with one.”
——————
Do you work for a major league team? Are you in a MLB front office somewhere? Are an industry leader on this subject?
Maybe it’s time for you to apply to the Yankee brass. Child Prodigy. Yeah.
As a 5th starter, the amount of innings shouldn’t translate to more than 160-170 innings of work for Hughes keeping in mind that Javy Vasquez is an innings eater.
The way Joe Girardi uses his bullpen, Hughes can be taken out after the 6th inning and allow a rested bullpen to keep sharp with work for whoever needs it.
It’s laughable how clueless you are about this.
Hughes and Chamberlain are two different situations.
Hughes has pitched more professional innings than Chamberlain. Therefore, he isn’t as innings restricted as Joba was last year.
He is also the #5 starter. Meaning, unlike last year where Joba was the #4 starter for most of the year, it’s much easier to manage his workload.
Especially when the cap is 20-25 innings higher than it was for Joba.
I think it is you, and not the Yankees, who don’t have a plan.
Honestly, just think it out and you will see the two situations are completely different.
Or, ask a question seeking more information.
When you say they “don’t have a plan”, when they clearly do, it’s just over the top and inaccurate which makes it hard to take your comments seriously.
MTU (aka GBURL)
March 26th, 2010 at 8:24 am
Can we improve upon Thames before the season starts ?
Yesterday Cash was quoted as saying that he still had his eyes open looking to see what might become available before the season starts.
He has a few extra dollars in his pocket after Gaudin’s departure.
Does he pull another small rabitt out of the hat ?
Let’s see what happens.
******************************
Jermaine Dye, Come On Down!!!
I am not comparing Hughes and Joba in terms of X number of innings. That is far from the point. My issue is solely with the idea of a “plan.”
The Yankees have clearly said they are going to limit Hughes to some extent this year. That means they need a plan to limit his innings even though it is less than they are going to limit Joba. I do not care if they only need to skip one start from Hughes. They need to set that date and stick to it.
Sherman has been on top of everything this offseason like you mentioned above. Yet, on this issue there is still uncertainty and speculation. Considering we are a little more than a week away from the season and the 5th starter has been picked out for months that does not make any sense.
“It’s been explained to you over and over how innings limits work and how to approximate Hughes’ innings for 2010.”
————————
Innings limits are also far from an exact science. The Yankees can say Hughes is at 175 but that is very different from saying that he is able to pitch 175 and that is a safe number for him.
Dude Girardi said this just yesterday,
“The only danger in skipping a guy a lot is you give the other guys too many starts,” Girardi said. “You can do it some. That is the next thing that we will iron out. We will probably try to do that in the next few days, how exactly we attack (Hughes innings limit). Try to take what we learned from last year, in a sense.”
So they are obviously developing a plan and trying to learn from last year’s mistakes. They need to figure out a way that allows Hughes to start games throughout the year and not end up on a 50 pitch count in September/October. They failed in this last year with Joba. I think they will learn from that and do a better job in 2010.
“Do you work for a major league team? Are you in a MLB front office somewhere? Are an industry leader on this subject?”
I have been identified as one of the future leaders on this subject.
“Maybe it’s time for you to apply to the Yankee brass. Child Prodigy. Yeah.”
I much prefer Bill James’ philosophy when it comes to these topics so I chose to work with him.
LGY,
Cashman doesn’t just pull an innings limit out of his rear end. They are based upon decades of data.
9 more days until opening day!!!
I am so done w/ college hoops…had ‘cuse going all the way
Urban Meyer has reportedly taken note of today’s event — coaches getting a chance to shoot media members
16 minutes ago
Now you are just parsing words.
It would be dumb to set a concrete plan for any player on March 26.
Your daily complaint today was stating the Yankees had “no plan” for Hughes.
When it was shown to you they do have a plan and how it’s devised, your new complaint is they “better stick to it”.
I think you need to figure out what your complaint really is, ie: Joba not in the rotation, instead of coming up with phony and inaccurate complaints.
New Post: Rodriguez heating up
Why do I feel like the worst thing (well really not the worst but something that has really done a major dis-service) was the revelation of the JOba rules a few years ago. It got the media and the fan base all riled up. There was no reason to make that public and in the long term I think it caused a whole hullabaloo long term when it wasnt necessary.
I think it is funny how people somehow that its all over now
in 2009 6 players started at least 9 games for the Yankees – yes Mitre and Wang got 9 starts each
in 2008 6 players started at least 12 games – Ponson got 15 starts!
in 2007 6 players started at least 12 games – Igawa got 12 starts!
in 2006 6 players started at least 9 games – Cory Lidle, Shawn Chacon amongst them
in 2005 9 players started at least 9 games – Pavano had the 3rd most starts of anyone (17)
in 2004 6 players started at least 15 games
The risk that one of the 5 starters goes down with an injury is pretty close to 100%. Joba will start a lot of games this year, and will probably start the season in AAA to keep him stretched out. Towards the end of the season, assuming you’re lucky enough that the top 4 are all healthy you move both Joba and Hughes to the penn for no 28…
SJ,
No. Not at all. My point has always been both they need a plan and they need to stick to it. I still am saying they need a plan. After reading what Sherman said this morning and Cashman’s quotes this offseason it they have not set a plan yet. They have also in the past demonstrated that these type of plans are not concrete.
They said they had a plan for Joba going into the season last year to limit his innings early in the season, but it really was not a plan at all.
I am also not unhappy at all that Phil is in the rotation. If his changeup if legit I actually think he will have a better career than Joba.
Patrick:
They can learn from Jim Leyland. Porcello made his 30+ starts, but Leyland A) generally kept him in the 90 or so pitch range (only 4 times over 100 pitches) and B) Built him a mini-vacation around the allstar break. If the Yankees go to school on that, then Hughes should be fine.
Also, when it comes to young starters the idea of setting a concrete plan in March I think is very different than the rest of the roster.
Patrick,
Thanks for the quote from Girardi. I did not see that and it is promising to hear.
On the innings limits. I understand innings limits and how they are generally determined. Cashman does not just make them up but they are not exact for anyone. Joba was at about 160 last year, but you could say he should have been shut down at 120, 130, 140 when his fatigue was fairly obvious.
Joba has also been identified as an at risk pitcher this year.
All of the discussion about the pitching staff made me curious about how this year’s staff compares to last year. Looking at it, I realized there was even more roster turnover than I realized–12 players who pitched in a major league game for the Yankees last year are no longer with the team. The Yankees were 3rd in the AL in ERA last year, at 4.28. The dozen guys no longer on the team pitched about 300 innings with a 5.6 ERA, while the remainder of the staff pitched about 1,150 innings with a 3.94 ERA. Obviously there is no guarantee these guys will repeat their performance or that inferior minor league players won’t be needed. However, adding Vasquez & Park to last year’s core has the 2010 staff positioned to be one of the league’s best.
Also, the Yankees led the AL in strikeouts with 1,260. BOS was second with 1,230, the Jays were third with 1,181, the Royals were fourth with 1,153. I found that very interesting and think it says a lot about the division (the Rays were 5th) and the Yankees’ potential after adding Vasquez to the rotation.
I always read “they’re only the 24th and 25th spots on the roster”. Well, why make those spots intentionally weak. Thames has been brutally bad, maybe one of the worst in camp. And somehow, he just gets the spot because it doesn’t matter?
I love the design of your blog, did you create it or download it somewhere?