Spring Training Game 23: Yankees at Tigers
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 27, 2010 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
YANKEES
Brett Gardner LF
Nick Johnson 1B
Jorge Posada C
Marcus Thames DH
Curtis Granderson CF
Randy Winn RF
Ramiro Pena SS
Kevin Russo 2B
Brandon Laird 3B
RHP A.J. Burnett
TIGERS
Austin Jackson CF
Johnny Damon LF
Magglio Ordonez RF
Miguel Cabrera 1B
Carlos Guillen DH
Brandon Inge 3B
Gerald Laird C
Scott Sizemore 2B
Adam Everett SS
LHP Nate Robertson
TIME/TV: 1:05 p.m./YES Network
WEATHER: Close your eyes and imagine Florida. That’s exactly what the weather is like today.
UMPIRES: HP Jerry Layne, 1B Mark Wegner, 2B Chad Fairchild, 3B Damien Beal
ON THE LINE: Another chance for Marcus Thames to prove himself against a left-handed pitcher… This will be Joba Chamberlain’s first spring appearance as a one-inning reliever… Nick Johnson is making his second start at first base.
UPDATE, 1:19 p.m.: With two outs in the first, Posada doubled and Thames drew a walk in his first AB against Robertson. That brought Granderson to the plate, and the Tigers crowd gave him a pretty significant cheer. They still love him here.
UPDATE, 1:21 p.m.: Granderson doubles to right — off a lefty! — and it’s 1-0 Yankees.
UPDATE, 1:43 p.m.: Brandon Laird just caught a pop up to retire Gerald Laird. Ah, family.
UPDATE, 2:02 p.m.: Randy Winn made an on-target throw to the plate, but Johnny Damon beat the throw by a step. It’s 1-0 Tigers.
UPDATE, 2:04 p.m.: Solo home run by Marcus Thames.
UPDATE, 2:37 p.m.: Joel Zumaya just hit 100 mph on the gun here in Lakeland. Not bad for spring training.
UPDATE, 2:40 p.m.: Ramiro Pena just went down on 101 mph from Zumaya.
Go Yanks!
SJ, I was the one who made that point about Phil and the pen. I never said Phil wasn’t successful last year; I said we don’t know for sure that that will help him as a starter – that’s to be determined. Since I think he’s a stud to be, I’m sure the pen will prove to have been a turning point for Phil, but….the proof is in the pudding.
SJ, yesterday CB gave a list of things that he hoped to see from Phil this year: more ground balls, more variety on his curve, better depth to his cutter and the change becoming a good enough pitch to where it’s his #3. Most important, he hoped that Phil’s FB command would be the same as it was when he was in the pen. Is this the kind of stuff you are looking for from Phil to gauge his progress? Pat M, I would love to hear your thoughts as well.
Be interested to know what the Yankee ‘regular’ starters Spring Training stats are compared to the scrub pitchers – not that Spring Training stats mean anything – but just to compare.
Week from tomorrow – Game On!
LGY…Goggle Vegas WAtch baseball overs unders and the page will come up with all 30 teams…..Just select your best 5…I do have to play all 30, but I’m playing the best 5 at a higher dollar value…..
is this game on YES or it is tomorrows??
“WEATHER: Close your eyes and imagine Florida. That’s exactly what the weather is like today.”
39 here in Toledo. But at least the snow is gone & the sun is out.
I get to hear the Tiger’s broadcast of the game.
It’s kinda cool on LI today, but the sun is shining…Just home, doing laundry and some chores…TV with the game starting, on in the background…Yeah, it’s springtime, and I’m ready for baseball…Next Sunday, it’s for real.
Can’t wait. Really can’t wait.
despite my object that joba in the pen.
i hope he k’s the 3 hitters in 9 pitches
game on yes
The game is on YES today….not sure about tomorrow.
Trisha -
Put me down for 99 wins this season (though I’m hoping to be on the under side of wrong). I’m too conservative for my own good.
Chad -
Ugh! Tell me about that weather – we just left it. It had just started to warm up nicely and we had to leave. It is far too cold up here today!!!!
In fact, yesterday would have been a great day to see a game at the ST home of the Braves in Orlando (at ESPN/Disney) and it would have bee a good one to see, too – Tigers v. Braves with the potential of being able to see Damon, Cabrera, Jackson. Oh, well.
“He’s a kid with needs as much as he is a ballplayer”
Chronologically, he’s not a kid anymore. Someone to mentor his talent is different than someone to babysit him.
Joba has 2 ears and one mouth and should use them in that proportion if he wants to get where he wants to go and needs to be.
Hi Joe from Lomg Island,
Did you manage to get your weekend package back this year? I’m happy to say we did.
Betsy, as always CB provides a through scouting evaluation and I do agree with his highlighted points…Primarly, he needs to incorpoarte 2 types of curves, increase goundballs, especially at The Stadium…But with his late moving fastball, he will get lots of pop ups and flyballs…As with all sucessful pitchers, spotting and locating his fastball to all 4 quadrants is vital….His circle change will keep hitters honest, and then he can elevate the zone with high heat……He’s still learning but he has plus talent and plus intellengence….I see him winning 13 and getting decisions in about 65 % of his starts…..That would be very good….
Went to a Yankee game at Lakeland last March. It’s really a nice, minor league, small town ballpark. The kind that harkens back to simpler days. Every seat’s a good one, and they had vendors in the stands with fresh strawberries and shortcake.
Just a very nice place to see a game.
“Close your eyes and imagine Florida. That’s exactly what the weather is like today.”
Hope it improves from here on in too. The wife & I are headed to Florida in 2 weeks. We have tix at the Trop for all 3 games that weekend. Can’t wait!
I know is the grand scheme of things not a big deal but is anyone else who has Opening Day tickets a little tickets that the ring ceremony is NOT on Opening Day as had been hinted at before.
To Trish:
Which ruim do you ruiminate in?
When Andy doesn’t re-sign, then Joba loses his mentor, that is the year that he becomes a man…ooops a person lmao.
tarantula
March 27th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
“By the way, here’s my latest NCAA tip. Tennessee.”
A prediction a tad late? Bruce Pearl is going to finally get his due whether it’s this year or in the next few years. A great man oooops person…please don’t call the IRS and inform????
Pat M, is it a concern (well, not really a concern, but something to watch) that Phil no longer generates a ton of ground balls? The curve ball issue makes a lot of sense; I wonder if it’s something he’s thought about. He’s definitely intelligent and has an aptitude for pitching, so I’m not worried one bit. I guess the process of becoming a successful major league pitcher is just something that can’t be rushed. I admit that I can’t wait to see him start painting the corners again – hope he hasn’t lost that wonderful command that’s his hallmark.
Here’s hoping AJ has a positive outing today…
if the game is on YES why isnt it on mlb.tv? >=(
gayle,
They’re not handing out the rings on OPening Day?? What could possibly be the logic of that? Every team does it then.
Drive-
I do not know if it has been confirmed for the 14th but reported on TMZ this Am that it will be on the 14th.
Jorge looks really good this spring. I know we all have a propensity to complain about jorge’s catching and game calling, but this guy can really swing a bat. Sometimes I feel like I take him for granted.
Wow, Opening Day is already next week? I’m glad – as I’m anxious to see our fellows defend their title. Each year there are new challenges to face and the road won’t be easy, but it should be fun.
Inferno, it’s blacked out because the game is on YES
Why am I paying for mlb tv…
Drive 4-6 – Yes! We also got our Saturday package. A little further down the RF line, I think Sec 208 inside the foul pole. But, most importantly, back to Saturday afternoons. The two weekday games are both day games on getaway days. Very manageable.
Congratulations. I was wondering about you. Glad to see you got it.
Thats why I’m so glad we signed granderson.
Kevin Long is a genius.
Thats why I’m so glad we traded for granderson,
my bad
So I take it Granderson dumped the right side?
pffft on Winn.
I have always believed that Granderson would improve against lefties because he works hard; I don’t believe that hard work ever goes unrewarded.
Nice snatch.
Austin Jackson is going to be their lead-off hitter?
look at NJ flashing the leather.
Betsy, i dont live in NY first of all, second mlbtv shows all yes games
I think its cause the game wasnt originaly supposed to be broadcasted and mlbtv forgot to ad it >=(
pat, I believe that Joba needs both, professional mentoring and a bit of babysitting. And I think it will pay off in spades. His upside is certainly worth it IMO
*****************************
Doreen, I’ve got your 99.
Chad’s a star!
Infernoscurse,
I think you are right. I sent mlb an email asking and will let you know if I get an answer.
Brandon
Rumor has it Jean Afterman is a big Randy Winn fan.
Pat,
Looking at it so far,
I think the Angels will definitely be over 84. They have not gotten that worse to lose 13 games in the standings from last year.
I do not know much about betting but I assume a 94.5 win line is not the safest bet. But, I do not think there is any doubt at least one AL East team will win 95+ games. IMO that team is the Yankees. The Yankee pitching is just so good and they will have a full season of A-Rod.
The Yankees’ offense will probably explode once the season starts.
Gerald: ‘Your still hitting like a girl’
KGY, What about the Twins, Giants, White Sox, Mets, Seattle ???
http://members.cox.net/lsdorgan/YANKEES%202010.pdf
Add to it if you want. Change it if you’re already there and want to. I’ll take predictions up to the end of ST.
Please put my name in the post if you want to be added (or change your prediction)
Pat,
The last time no one in the AL East won at least 95 games was 2000. I think you look at that division and just pick the team you think wins 95 which is why I said the Yankees.
Trisha – put me down for 100!! ( I hope i’m wrong and they go over, I just don’t like to get too eager in march
)
Put me down for 101 wins for the yankees.
So, this inning was taking to long, so I listened to see what was happening. Tigers crew talking about how AJ & Posada gotta work things out.
Anyway. Sizemore flied out to CF to end the frame scoreless after being up 3-0.
Excuse me, inferno, I was trying to help you.
You know at first glance I figured Seattle as a definite over at 83 but as much as their pitching got better, I think their offense stepped backwards.
I think the Mets are a little better than a .500 team so that could be an over.
NYY626, gotcha.
Listening to the Detroit broadcast. All they’re talking about is whether Jorge should be catching AJ.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed and look forward to publicly acknowledging that my remaining reservations were nothing more than the workings of an active imagination.
In other words, I’m still not sold. But I’m inching my way there.
The Twins are a team I would be really cautious with either way.
The won 87 last year but they went on that huge run at the end of the season. They played a ton of games against the Tigers towards end the year who were just awful down the stretch.
They have really benefited from a huge home field advantage and are moving to a new stadium so that could be an issue. Mauer was ridiculously good last year and I am not convinced he is going to replicate his power numbers. They also lost Nathan for the season.
I would not go with them for your top 5, but if I had to pick an over/under on 82 I would actually go under.
AJ still doesn’t have any command…..
Joe from Long Island
March 27th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Drive 4-6 – Yes! We also got our Saturday package. A little further down the RF line, I think Sec 208 inside the foul pole. But, most importantly, back to Saturday afternoons. The two weekday games are both day games on getaway days. Very manageable.
Congratulations. I was wondering about you. Glad to see you got it.
Thanks. I guess the the 08 Section is where they put all of us expatriates lol. We’re upstairs in in 408.I’ll try not to drop any beer beer on ya
Did anyone hear about “24″ being canceled?
Sad News.
At least I (we) got to watch one season as WS champions.
It is one thing for us, the Yankees faithful, to have debated the AJ/Posada pairing, with all the angst it provided. It is quite another for broadcasters for another organization to be discussing it. Especially since AJ and Posada have taken such great pains to work together this spring.
Trisha, I don’t know about you, but it gets my dander up when “outsiders” talk about these things.
(Heck I got my dander up with the “insiders” talk about these things – but at least it’s family!)
I don’t watch one show on network tv, lol…..
Benny, got it.
Kay was talking about those 2 on YES. AJ and Posada get along well (as I always thought). They didn’t have a chance to work together much in ST, but still – AJ’s best pitching of the year came with Jorge behind the plate. They are going to be fine this year. If AJ struggles, it’s not because of Jorge, same way if CC or anyone else struggles.
I mean in ST of last year.
“Hughes himself said that his stint in the bullpen helped him a lot. That should end any argument on the subject.”
That was funny!
Pat M, did you catch my late reply in the wee, wee hours of the morning?
Upshot: over on the SF Gigantes.
Doreen, I guess I’m a sell out of sorts because if I didn’t buy it and “outsiders” talked about it, it would aggravate the hell out of me! Because I am not totally convinced yet and because they were unfortunately talking about it when it seemed AJ was starting to give up a little, it served to make me both sure I had been onto something and insecure because it felt like it was starting to happen all over again.
I would go under on the Mets.
Their pitching is just non-existent beyond Santana.
Their offense is good but they still have a lot of question marks. Beltran is their best player but he is hurt and you really do not know what you are going to get from him when he gets back. Reyes seems to be ok, but I am not convinced he is 100% healthy. Wright had almost ZERO power last year, so it is a big question if that power returns. Bay should help them offensively but he is just brutal defensively.
They just have no pitching and too many question marks for me. Also, the Nationals have gotten better so they are going to take some wins away from the Mets in the division.
LGY, The Twinkies had a injury riddled season in 09….Other than Nathan they get back 3 starters and Morneau…..White Sox are the team that could slip into the Central Division lead….I have to spread out 1,000.00 over the 30 teams with a 20.00 minimum….So I’m thinking 20.00 on 25 teams and 100.00 on the best 5 picks…Or something along those lines, but I only have until the 31st…..
Erica isnt here to yell at me right?? Damon looks HORRIBLE with the beard lol.
And i type this he rips a double….
The changeup is getting killed.
Pat,
That is true about the injuries for the Twins. I forgot about that. I think the Twins are a really tough bet.
Just a terrible spring for AJ – he’s behind on everyone today.
Betsy I think that the point that they didn’t get a lot of ST work last year is a good one. I also remember that AJ is working on a changeup and said he was going to keep throwing it and not worry about whether or not it gets hit, so I’d like to think that any hiccups today could be attributable to that.
In a regular season game, the plate is blocked, no run.
nice throw by randy
“If AJ struggles, it’s not because of Jorge, same way if CC or anyone else struggles.”
Exactly. He was no different last year than he was over the course of his career. He’s quite simply inconsistent. Been that way for a decade and he’s probably going to keep being that way. Never believed it ever about who’s catching him.
Ok AJ… time to go back to FB/CB, forget the change…
Frank, my point wasn’t about AJ’s inconsistency; it was about the fact that Jorge shouldn’t be the fall guy for any pitcher when he doesn’t pitch well.
Why should he forget the change? Because he’s apparently getting hit? Good for him that he’s throwing it, but AJ hasn’t had his good FB once in ST.
I guess we are seeing why he doesn’t throw his change much.
I do not know enough about the Giants or that division to give you any safe prediction.
The Mariners I would put off to the final hour. Lee is hurt and they are not sure what they are doing with him yet. If he is healthy or the injury is minor I think they are better than 83 wins. If he is not healthy and going on a long DL stint I am not sure about that. They had a very good offseason, but I do not think they are as good as many predict them to be.
They had a -52 run differential last year. They could very well have been playing over their heads and will come back down to reality this year.
I smash lefties
WOW, thames with the emphatic statement.
Doreen, Marcus isn’t disappointing you!
Trisia
Could the blame be determined by which way a person decides to point the finger?
Nick in SF….Yeah I reed your response and it was like , yes I know that but went ahead anyway…..I like the Giants as well, as they and the Dodgers will fight it out all the way to the end…..I took Butler ( + 4 ) & West Virginia ( + 5 )….Time to rebound I’m on a downward slope ever since the Xavier meltdown in double OT
Nice Thames… that should get him on the roster.
Jay, he just started working on it again in ST.
“Frank, my point wasn’t about AJ’s inconsistency; it was about the fact that Jorge shouldn’t be the fall guy for any pitcher when he doesn’t pitch well.”
We’re making the same point. It’s never the catcher, whether it’s Posada or someone else. AJ could be pitching to Bench every start of his life and he’s still going to be anywhere from great to abysmal.
Randy Winn = Berroa?
“Trisia
Could the blame be determined by which way a person decides to point the finger?”
MaineYankee, I don’t know that it’s a question of blame. One of my dad’s continual mantras to us was this: there are three sides to every story. Mine, yours, and the truth.
I see it as a statement of fact as opposed to a finger-point situation. (We’re talking about the past for certain; I haven’t made unequivocal statements about the present because it’s early to try to call anything.)
Betsy
Do you watch any tv shows, on cable or dvd?
LGY, If you remember from last October, I have great respect for the Minn. Twins Organization and their ballclub…Back then you were LGT
Nah, Berroa was never good (or at least he wasn’t since 2003). Winn has a good career. He may have lost it, but probably not. That said, they could add an OF fairly soon.
Pat,
I think you are right about the White Sox.
They have a really good pitching rotation and bullpen. They will have Peavy for the full year which will be a big help. With the pitching they have I just do not see them as a .500 team or worse.
I think they win the Central.
I watch “The Best of Donovan McNabb”, exclusive DVD I got on EBay that shows career highlights of McNabb through 2008.
Please excuse me for being late to the Joba discussion this morning, but I’m a West Coaster.
I think there’s a philosophical difference between the way people are looking at this. I keep reading posts that make excellent points that Joba hasn’t earned his spot in the rotation. That is true.
But I don’t look at it from that perspective. For me, it’s about what’s best for the Yankees. “Fairness” to Joba isn’t the issue.
It’s up to the parent to provide the child with the best opportunites to succeed. If you’re raising a genius with potential off the charts, but fail to nurture that child correctly, the child will likely never reach full potential.
So far, the Yankees are failing with Joba.
Who would you rather start a team with: Lester or Papelbon? Greinke or Soria?
If you can’t find a way to take a guy who has been a starter his whole career, rated with 4 plus pitches, and make him a successful starter, there’s a problem with the school.
This was the year Joba was supposed to fly uninhibited and see what he’s got. It may be true that he will never put it together and be a successful starter. But if this is it, the Yankees pulled the plug too early. My fear is that now we will never know. And that bugs me because having a young elite starter for 10 years is more valuable than having relievers.
I’ll take Greinke over Soria every time.
haha, good memory. I was LGT. I would have to think about the Twins longer. My first reaction was under, but you are right about the injuries and Gardenheire just seems to figure it out somehow every year.
Scoscia and Gardenheire are 2 guys that are tough to bet against.
Tricia
I’m not refering to the players but the fans and media.
Depending on which side someone favors may determine who they choose to blame.
Nice to see Thames and Granderson having good ABs against the lefty. And, AJ and Posada seem to be working well together – who’d ‘a’ thunk it?
BJK – I agree with your post. And that is why I believe that if there are other things he needs to realize his success and those thing don’t necessarily have to do with the way he throws the balls, I would hope those things would be supplied to him to.
LGY, You and I some highly spirted debates back then during the ALDS…..A few breaks here or there and the Yanks may never had seen Philly
Hughes beat out Joba for the job.
Tricia
The answer probably is more in the middle.
Tricia
The answer probably is more in the middle.
What I meant to say is that people should stop acting like the Yankees took away a toy from Joba and gave it to Hughes.
If your argument is that Joba should be a starter no one’s arguing that (at least not atm), and it’s still possible.
Joba needs to get back on track before he can dream of starting. He as much said so yesterday.
I was much more argumentative back then
.
Those Twins games really were close. Even though the Yankees swept them, I think you can make the argument that the Twins gave the Yanks the toughest time. A lot of mistakes for the Twins and a few downs down to the wire.
And if the Twins squeaked out 1 win that could have really affected the Yankees 3-man rotation plan
BJK, thank you for that post and your stalwart defense of common sense over the course of this debate.
The jury is still out, however, so I am still hopeful that the project will be seen through to a more sure conclusion.
Frank, I’m referring to all pitchers and you’re applying my comments only to AJ.
Jorge is locked in.
MaineYankee absolutely. And I think we saw that pretty clearly. If you listened to Cone and Leiter, the answer was that Jorge should have been letting AJ throw what he was comfortable throwing (“A pitcher should be committed to the pitch he’s throwing.”) I bet Flash might have seen it differently.
I’m with you that the answer lies somewhere in the middle.
My bottom line truly is that you fix a problem if there is one, and if you can’t fix it with the two guys, then you go with what works best. The most important thing is to win games.
CR, I watch stuff on the History Channel, Discovery channel, etc…I do watch Family Guy on Fox, so there’s that….but that’s about it. I do watch South Park, but that’s on cable. I abandoned all the shows I ever once liked: Lost, the Office, et….
“I’ll take Greinke over Soria every time.”
you mean the Greinke who pitched 68 innings as a starter and 53 innings as a reliever at the age of 24 in 2007, after throwing up a 5.80 ERA in 2005 and missing most of 2006?
THAT Greinke you mean?
History Channel is gutless.
m -
I am completely in line with your thinking re: Joba. It amuses me that in many discussions Joba is treated like an object that has absolutely no control over the situation, when in reality, he had an entire season 2009 to take things into his own hands. Randy l hits the nail on the head, in many ways, when he says that Joba is high maintenance. It seems to me the Yankees bent over backwards last season to try and figure out what Joba needed to do to be successful – from simulated first innings in the pen to extended rest between starts, what-have-you. You can look at it either that the Yankees were grasping at straws, or you can look at it in such a way as to say no matter what the Yankees did, Joba was still an enigma, the usual methods failing to get him on a consistent track.
Brett Gardner is the classic example of the Law of Diminishing Returns, regardless of how much man love the authors of this blog layer on top of him.
He is a sparkplug who can come in to pinchrun or play defensive late in a close game and perhaps stir something up. Play him every day and he wears down, stops producing and becomes exposed as a weak hitting, powerless, virtually automatic out.
m
March 27th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
What I meant to say is that people should stop acting like the Yankees took away a toy from Joba and gave it to Hughes.
If your argument is that Joba should be a starter no one’s arguing that (at least not atm), and it’s still possible.
Joba needs to get back on track before he can dream of starting. He as much said so yesterday.
——————————————————
m-
Plenty of people are arguing that he’s not a starter, actually.
And again, I don’t think the Yankees took the toy away from Joba and gave it to Hughes. They should both be starters, although my personal opinion is that Joba should be one step ahead in line based on Joba’s prep last year.
My issue is that if Joba is not the fifth starter, he should be the sixth starter and it should be up to the Yankees to find the best way to make that happen. You can’t develop your secondary pitches if you’re only going to throw your top 2, as Joba has said is the plan.
Phil, what do you mean by that?
How does Brett Gardner win the competition for a starting job? Easy–Get rid of Damon, Cabrera, Hairston, Hinske, Nady, Jackson, and even Shelley Duncan–and then bring in a bunch of competitors who can’t hit their weight.
stuckey (”its ok to agree to disagree”)
March 27th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
“I’ll take Greinke over Soria every time.”
you mean the Greinke who pitched 68 innings as a starter and 53 innings as a reliever at the age of 24 in 2007, after throwing up a 5.80 ERA in 2005 and missing most of 2006?
THAT Greinke you mean
—————————————————–
Yup. That Greinke.
I’m not sure if you’re agreeing with me or not with this point?
Stuckey, it’s all about instant gratification in the Bronx….KC is a different environment, as they allow time to see things through….The future is now when it comes to the NY Yankees and their fans as well
i love how joba a bust as a starter because he didn’t have an ace type season.
Pat,
What do you have on the Phillies?
zuymna throwing gas
.258 OBP% ? Colin Curtis will be in his spot by end of June.
Betsy,
They got pressured into not showing the last three episodes of The Men Who Killed Kennedy after premiering them. Jack Valenti and some others pressured them into not playing them again and not issuing the DVD’s. It was pure fascism and they buckled to it. They are gutless swines.
LOL Michael Kay – he’s just a little hyped up because Zumaya looked great in a ST outing.
“Stuckey, it’s all about instant gratification in the Bronx….KC is a different environment, as they allow time to see things through….The future is now when it comes to the NY Yankees and their fans as well”
Yes. unfortunately
“i love how joba a bust as a starter because he didn’t have an ace type season.”
But many if not most of us know better.
**************************
Joel Zumaya is a phenom.
LGY, Right now I have the Phillies under 92…Atlanta is a much improved club as will be the Mets….Philly has 6 games with Boston, and even with Halladay, it’s going to be close, but will they win 93 games ????
One more point on the Joba debate:
It’s pretty much agreed upon across the board that Montero’s bat is major league ready.
What if Tex (knock on wood) goes down with an injury, Johnson has to move to 1st, and the Yankees call up Montero to be the DH? Now what if Montero mashes the ball as expected?
Do we give up on Montero developing his catching skills? Montero the Catcher is far more valuable than Montero the DH. You have to give him the chance to realize his full potential, don’t you? Not for the sake of Montero, but as what’s best for the Yankees.
Man just look at Zumaya… thats what I want Joba to do this season. Give other hitters no shot,.
Joba used to throw that hard.
” it’s all about instant gratification in the Bronx…”
It’s the worst thing about being fan of NY teams. It has left the Knicks and Rangers in perennial suckitude. Only the NYG have consistently ignored it.
It’s ironic too, because veterans with big contracts are often afforded patience.
The Yankees have shown patience with Cano, Melky, Joba (to a degree)and some relievers, and they may have to show it with Hughes this season.
Nice inning by Zumaya, but apart from Granderson, the batters he face aren’t very good.
Brandon, are you going double or nothing on your 2010 predictions???
Well all I know is that I like educational tv. I have no idea what happened with that show or why they would buckle. Comedy Central by that count is gutless as well since they blurred out the image of Mohammed in Cartoon Wars. Ironically, years before, they showed Mohammed in another episode.
“you mean the Greinke who pitched 68 innings as a starter and 53 innings as a reliever at the age of 24 in 2007, after throwing up a 5.80 ERA in 2005 and missing most of 2006?
THAT Greinke you mean?”
Most baseball fans know that “THAT” Greinke was suffering from a psychological malady that he has thankfully defeated.
Nick, on Winn it’s more like a blind shot in an ocean.
AJ just does not look good – his FB looks blah. Can bulking up hurt the FB ?
If you’ve watched Zumaya in the past you know that this was no aberration. The kid is great.
I guess you can look at Comedy Central that way as it did allow itself to be censored. But they don’t call themselves the History Channel then refuse to show history.
Joba used to be great.
I really wish I could have watched that inning. You really have to appreciate blazing relief pitchers.
Good choices. They have excellent programming on Disc. and History.
Family Guy’s a good show, too.
Just don’t shoot your dinghy.
Zumaya is inconsistent. He has a tendency to give up too many BB (career BB/9 = 5.4).
“Joba used to be great.”
Yeah and then one day he was left out to compete with midges and he’s never been the same. Right?
I wouldn’t quite write him off just yet. There’s plenty of time in that kid’s life.
Nice play by Winn!
Winn with the circus catches today.
If nothing else, Winn will come in for late inning D in RF. That could cost them offensively in close games.
trisha,
he hasn’t been great since he hurt his shoulder in Texas. I haven’t given up on him at all.
There were midges that hot night in Texas in August 2008?
Phil, that’s true, lol. I don’t watch it religiously anyway. I watch TBS if older Family Guy episodes are on; the newer ones are ok, but they don’t measure up.
randy was dandy
Rich in NJ….It could come to be that Winn will be in left, and Gardner will be the guy that comes in late for defensive purposes….And that will cost them offensively…..Or when they pinch run for Johnson…..Just saying
I can’t believe that tendonitis would cause a permanent decline in velocity; it has to be other things with Joba.
Pat M
You’re right, it could be, but as long as neither are hitting, I would go with the guy whose career is probably still ascending.
I think we’ll trade for an OF by the deadline.
Betsy, it didn’t !!!
hasn’t zumaya been injured and pretty mediocre for the past three years after the one really good year back in 2006?
Zumaya has been the victim of some mighty weird injuries. And he’s played through some of them and he’s been shelved because of some of them. When he is totally healthy he’s one of the nastiest pitchers I’ve ever watched pitch. If can stay healthy this season he is going to be untouchable.
Zumaya got hurt playing air guitar.
Pat M, that’s what I figured. Anyway, velocity is overrated. Michael Kay was just a bit over the top impressed with Zumaya over his velocity – and even Chad reported it. Is he really even that great of a pitcher?
BJK,
Sorry, I went off! But anytime I see that the Yankees “ruined” or “failed” Joba I go off.
Joba bears some of that responsibility.
The Yo-Yoing or Joba rules didn’t cause him to lose focus or velocity or command. None of the rules said you should shake off your catcher stubbornly. Joba didn’t bear down, and personally he let pressure/stress get to him.
Joba to the minors would be good to pitch as a starter would be good. I argued for that earlier. But it’s not in the cards, and that tells you something about how the Yankees feel about him starting right now.
“There were midges that hot night in Texas in August 2008?”
That was meant to be a joke.
*************************************
Betsy, I think he’s had some things that have messed with his head as well as his finger.
Trish, who are you referring to?
Betsy
Again, tendinitis is a catch-all diagnosis. It can encompass anything from a small tear to inflammation. MRIs aren’t accurate enough to distinguish between them.
If his arm strength was reduced last year, it would be understandable if it affected his mechanics and mental approach.
On the bright side, we are seeing signs of increased velo from Joba.
In sum, he’s still a kid. He was the toast of baseball in 2007-08. It’s tough to be humbled, even as an older person when you have had prior humbling experiences.
I’m confident that it will come together for him.
Phil – and moving boxes!
Besty, you have to see Zumaya pitch to appreciate it. Seriously. He leaves you kind of breathless, like you don’t believe what you’ve just seen.
*personally I feel he let pressure/stress get to him.
“Most baseball fans know that “THAT” Greinke was suffering from a psychological malady that he has thankfully defeated.”
Doesn’t change the point that spending the majority of an early years of his career in the bullpen didn’t ruin him as a starter forever.
Bets, talking about Joba, with the problems messing with his head.
Trish, only results count; I’m not the kind of person who gets overly impressed by hard throwers
Doreen,
I agree! lol.
Nice to see you back.
Trish, I don’t believe that the Yankees messed with his head; Joba has to take responsibility for the issues he’s had.
We grind out a couple of walks! Keep grinding, Jorge. Winfree in for Nick and we have Electric Speed on the bases.
It’s not every day you see a guy throwing 99 in ST. His stuff is just sick.
But to be fair… he was facing Granderson, Winn, and Pena. Granderson struggles with lefties anyway, Winn’s bat speed is too slow now to catch up to that kind of heat, and Pena isin’t a very good hitter.
Bad baserunning.
See all later as I have to go to a Memorial for an old Golfing friend…..I’ve been asked to say a few words so I have to go to a place that saddens my heart……Joba will bounce back in 2010 as he’ll get back to basics and will apply the keep in simple ….Will he return to the rotation, Yanks are going to be needing a starter next season….That’s why it’s vital that Young Master Hughes emerges in 2010, and he will……Later
Rich, that makes sense.
I’m not the biggest Joba fan in the world as his personality doesn’t do much for me, but he’s basically a good kid. He certainly is talented and I’m rooting for him; if he does well, then the Yankees do well.
Betsy, of course. But Zumaya gets results. When he is healthy he is unstoppable. I don’t have this on television but 9 strikes out of 10 pitches isn’t chopped liver. Believe me, he’s good. Now if you don’t care to watch him, that’s your choice. He’s not a Yankee. (I really appreciate watching great baseball, even if it’s not Y baseball; and I’m a sucker for pitching and defense.)
Pat M, I’m sorry about your loss.
My condolences, Pat M.
Betsy I didn’t mean for that to come out sounding snotty. Not everyone cares to watch other teams is what I meant.
Why would I watch him, Trish? I’m a Yankee fan – I’m not about to go out of my way to watch another team. Unstoppable? Only Mo is unstoppable.
God bless your buddy,his family and friens, Pat.
Why is AJ still out there? Surprising………..
Good luck Pat M
Tigers crew talking about AJ/Posada again!
Sorry about your loss Pat.
stuckey,
I agree with your point about Grienke’s bullpen years not hurting him from becoming a starter. But Grienke’s numbers from early in his career aren’t valid to use in any comparison.
“It’s the worst thing about being fan of NY teams. It has left the Knicks and Rangers in perennial suckitude. Only the NYG have consistently ignored it. ”
To be fair… it is MUCH easier to rebuild in the NFL. You get 7 draft picks in a much deeper talent pool, don’t have to worry about selling seats (only 8 home games), and free-agency is not limited to big market or flashy teams because of the salary cap. Green Bay has just as good a chance to land a FA as Dallas or NY does.
In the NBA, if you don’t have a star player or get lucky in the lottery, you are going to toil in mediocrity forever. Their ridiculous Bird-rule also makes it rare that FAs hit the market and most of them don’t go to bad teams.
Sorry for your loss Pat M.
m-
It’s mostly good to be back. Aside from the laundry and the cold, that is.
Sorry to hear of your loss Pat M. Be strong.
Winn has played a very good RF today……
Don’t Joba, Park, and Robertson need work? Why is AJ still in there?
Betsy because I have watched both Sux and Yankee games, I have gotten a double dose of other teams. What’s pretty cool about it is that when I watch Yankee games I am so focused on the Yankees that I miss the nuances of the other team. When I watch Sux games, I am focused on the competition. So I get to really get a feel for other players on other teams. I like it.
I would say this could be classified as a very successful outing by AJ. Of course I’m listening and not watching so I’m going by bottom line.
Drive, just because Chamberlain doesn’t have a social anxiety disorder, doesn’t mean he doesn’t have issues not directly related to “stuff” and it also simply displays the path to prospects ultimate ceiling is often years in the making
I give old man Winn credit on one thing, one thing…he catches those LDs.
KWAN – pitch count
Great outing for Burnett. Looks like he’s nearly ready for the season to begin. That last pitch he threw was dirty, he got a terrible swing on the curve
A really nice game for AJ…sure he was a little wild at times but thats typical burnett…a job well done..hopefully he can build off this right as ST is ending and carry it into Fenway for Game 2
I personally think AJ’s line looks better than he looked, but I guess he’ll be happy. His stuff just looks mediocre, especially for him.
I should clarify that I am a fan of Joba, I want Joba to be successful. But I am not tied to one role or the other for him any longer. It certainly would work well for the Yankees if he can move into a starting role permanently next season. And we’ll see.
Randy Winn looked good out there.
I think the opening day lineup might be interesting.
Uh Betsy, I didn’t say the Yankees messed with his head. I was talking about the things in his personal life.
Last year Joel Zumaya’s average fastball velocity was 99.3 mph.
99.3.
That was the fastest he’s thrown in his entire career over a season.
Despite that Zumaya’s fastball wasn’t particularly good last year and he wasn’t effective.
Zumaya threw much harder last year and struck out far fewer hitters than he has in the past.
Zumaya only struck out 8.7 hitters/ 9. In 2006 Zumaya struck out 10.5/9. In 2006 his average fastball was 98.6.
And Zumaya’s control completely fell apart last year as the continued to throw faster – he walked 6.4/9.
There was a game last year when Zumaya threw 25 fastballs at an average velocity of 100.6 mph and he did not strike out a hitter.
When Zumaya is 100 and over he’s overthrowing and appears to lose command.
Fangraphs did an interesting analysis of this last year:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....-fastball/
Guess we get to see a preview of Joba in the 8th inning
Only Betsy could say a guy looks mediocre after going 6 2/3 innings, 1 run, 3 hits
Betsy,
How are you watching this game?
AJ had a nice start.
Patrick, give me a break just because I don’t agree with you. I don’t think he looked so hot, sue me. I’m sure you’ve NEVER heard of a guy who’s line looked better than he looked. Excuse me for disagreeing with you.
M, YES
Zumaya has insane fastball velo but he’s always injured. His last full season was 2006. I don’t think he can keep throwing 98-100 if he wants to stay healthy for any period of time.
Betsy,
Jealous.
m
March 27th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
The Yo-Yoing or Joba rules didn’t cause him to lose focus or velocity or command. None of the rules said you should shake off your catcher stubbornly. Joba didn’t bear down, and personally he let pressure/stress get to him.
Joba to the minors would be good to pitch as a starter would be good. I argued for that earlier. But it’s not in the cards, and that tells you something about how the Yankees feel about him starting right now.
——————————————————
I agree mostly with this, except I’m not so sure the yo-yoing and Joba Rules isn’t related to Joba’s issues.
And I do think Joba of course bears responsibility, but I view him as the kid in this relationship. The Yankees are the Parent. If the kid has a 4.0 GPA through sophomore year, and then ends up at a state school instead of Harvard, I’m looking at the parent and asking “what happened?”
Betsy don’t get so defensive… I wasn’t attacking you personally just commenting
yeesh..
LOL M, move to NY and you can get YES as well..
Patrick, you try being on the other end of that. I’m not supposed to be defensive after a comment like that?
BJK,
What most likely happened is that the kid couldn’t handle the pressure and burned out.
I do like your teenager example, though. Because the smarter kids are the ones who heed the advice of their parents.
Oh, yo yo ing. *slaps head*
Grandy is heating up.
Abe?
Watch Almonte run.
I have to wonder how much of Zumaya’s loss of control had to do with the shoulder injury. He ended up having surgery so it apparently continued to bother him.
ABE!
Betsy,
Considering you yourself have acknowledged that you are a constant worrier, you shouldn’t be defensive when someone points that out.
I’m not criticizing you just saying “That’s Betsy being Betsy”
Chill out, it’s saturday go have a drink or two and relax
He had a bad jump too.
Not all state schools are created equal.
stuckey,
Joba isn’t suffering from anything near as serious as what Greinke overcame. We’re talking about a potentially debilitating condition.
If he’s not careful, we can see how Joba’s immaturity could have an impact on him long term. But we could say that about a lot kids his age. Despite his mom’s situation,Joba is doing ok. I’m confident he can continue to overcome his off field situation as he matures. In any case, it’s certainly less of a challenge than Grienke faced. And to be honest, I think Grienke has more talent than Joba.
Abe’s gonna fly up the prospect charts this year. The light is on.
The thing I hate about the Yankees is they do everything possible to distance the fans from the team in Spring Training. All the other teams let the fans interact with the players but the Yankees seem to have a philosophy that doesnt allow the fans up close. Isnt that what Spring Training is all about ?? Some of the things the Yankees have done under Cashmans regime have irritated me, this and that silly “moat” at the new Yankee stadium being one of them. Its as though the average fan is being pushed aside to serve coroprate executives.
If he can hit better than that 260 – 270 clip, yeh, too bad he’s not a smart baserunner yet.
Betsy thank God you arent a fan of most any other team that has legitimate worries. Geez I swear some of my Yankee fans are the most spoiled group of fans Ive ever met. I bet most teams would love to be worrying about who their last man off the bench will be or their #5 starter. Unreal folks.
Kay is such a pedant.
Patrick, I’m sorry – I’m not feeling that great today and I did get defensive. It’s just that I’m a little sensitive to comments about my negativity. In this case, I don’t think I was being negative or worrying- I thought I was being objective. IMO, AJ’s stuff looks really mediocre. I don’t know if it’s because he bulked up, but whatever it is, I don’t think he’s had a great FB all spring.
Gardenhoser Jr. there at 1B
“Zumaya has insane fastball velo but he’s always injured. His last full season was 2006. I don’t think he can keep throwing 98-100 if he wants to stay healthy for any period of time.”
Patrick, good point. I remember reading that he said his shoulder felt good for the first time after he had surgery last year. So maybe that surgery took care of whatever the issues were and he’ll be able to get back to throwing gas with great control. It’s going to be an interesting watch.
m
March 27th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
BJK,
I do like your teenager example, though. Because the smarter kids are the ones who heed the advice of their parents.
—————————————————–
But the smarter kids are often the ones who have trouble conforming to the rules and staying on track, too. That’s why you have to find what works best for each student. Didn’t you see Good Will Hunting?
Brandon,
He’s a really good baserunner. He just made a mistake there. He’s come a looong way.
Betsy,
I’m sorry if I offended you. When I was typing the comment in question, I had a smile on my face because I thought it was classic you.
With regards to A.J., I think he looked okay today. His control was good, mechanics were good. His curve looked nice and I saw a few change-ups in there which was nice to see. I don’t really pay attention to the velocity because I don’t trust YES velocity in the spring and gameday doesn’t record it yet.
Either way, you are entitled to your opinion and I didn’t mean to invalidate it by calling your personality into question. Feel better
Chan Ho pitching the 8th.
So I guess calling Park CHOP is OK………..
Chan Ho Park in – he’s looked very good so far. I guess Joba is pitching the 9th. If the Tigers were winning, though, then there would be no 9th….I wonder if they would have pitched the 9th so Joba could get work in.
m
If you had Direct TV and then got the MLB package you could see this game. It’s the only way I get to see them way up here in the north.
Wow, nice snot rocket from CHOP!
m
I meant North Pole.
Almonte has a better arm than Melky.
I’m going to make a statement that will probably sound controversial, and someone here might be able to remind me of particular pitchers, but I would have to say that I can’t think of Yankee relief pitcher (in the last 4 years anyway) who rivaled Zumaya when Zumaya was pitching his best stuff. That’s how much respect I have for the kid’s pitching.
I’m not including Mariano in there.
Nick in SF in Santa Rosa
March 27th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
Not all state schools are created equal.
————————————————–
So true. But as a state schooler myself, I feel like I’m much better suited for an eighth innning role.
Patrick, that’s ok. I wasn’t offended – I enjoy being teased, lol.
He was hitting 94 on the gun, but IMO, it didn’t look like classic AJ with that great FB. If he’s happy, then great – that’s all that counts. I did think his command was off, though. Overall, it was definitely an improvement on his other starts -I can’t dispute that.
trisha,
2007 Joba.
0.38 ERA – 34 Ks in 24 innings, sat in the upper 90s with that sick slider.
And Zumaya made it look effortless! Yes I am very high on him and I pray for his sake that his injuries are in the past because his talent is phenomenal.
That was literally the same exact play, unfortunately Laird screwed it up
Almonte has 5 tools.
Chan Ho gets out of it!
can joba hold the lead, not that it matters
Park looked good….
Harvard also refuses many 4.0 students… Skin pigmentation can be a factor…
But your point is taken. Hopefully the kid didn’t end up at Cal State Dominguez Hills. Not that there’s anyting wrong with that.
If Thames doesn’t hit well in the last few games I think we need to dump him. May not happen, but I’d rather give Russo a chance. He’s not as much of a power hitter, but he is a good contact hitter. I’d actually prefer a contact hitter in most pinch hitting situations anyway. There is nothing more deflating than a strikeout to end a rally.
Hughes as a reliever last season:
.172 .228 .228 .456
Zumaya for his career:
.215 .325 .334 .659
Mike, I guess I’d forgotten how good he was…
MaineYank, I’m in the middle of nowhere with YES. I have Verizon now and Verizon has YES, so I dropped DirecTV and only have them for the duration of the season because they have a better Extra Innings package than Verizon. But Verizon’s version of YES doesn’t show any ST games. So until the season starts all I get on YES is center stage and stuff like that. Grr.
Russo has such a sweet swing and pop.
Much better than Pena. Sorry, I don’t care about defense. It’s not like Russo is a butcher.
How may parents can afford Harvard these days anyway? It’s $50,000 a year just for tuition.
“2007 Joba.
0.38 ERA – 34 Ks in 24 innings, sat in the upper 90s with that sick slider.”
It would suck if Joba gave up a walkoff HR in his first appearance as a reliever. It’s only ST but still
Zumaya has been hurt for most of his career. His injuries have had an effect on his pitching. I said I was talking about Zumaya when he was at his best.
Hughes is not a knee-buckling fast ball pitcher as much as he is a finesse pitcher. Zumaya throws gas, gas, and more gas.
Dan, I’m listening to this not watching but I thought Joba already pitched and Park came in after him. No?
When Hughes buckled Griffey’s knees last yr. were you saying that?
Anyone remember the fortune teller who had predicted during last spring training that the yanks would have a very good year? It was reported in a NY times article.
I heard that she just predicted a terrible 2010 for us.
It’s been AJ, DRob then Chan Ho. No Joba yet.
Sorry, I had that wrong.
Hughes had a swing and miss fastball last year.
Joba should put duct tape on his mouth any time he is near a microphone.
Kay: Good fastball there by Joba
Radar gun: 89 MPH
Rich in NJ
March 27th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
How may parents can afford Harvard these days anyway? It’s $50,000 a year just for tuition.
—————————————————-
So much for metaphors. Yeesh.
If Joba gives up a walkoff that would mean he still thinks he’s competing with Phil.
“Zumaya has been hurt for most of his career. His injuries have had an effect on his pitching. I said I was talking about Zumaya when he was at his best.”
who cares about zumaya except for maybe a passing comment?
here’s a tiger’s blog for you:
http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/
cheeses, Joba.
And now the Detroit announcers are talking about Joba the enigma and where they think he should be pitching.
“Anyone remember the fortune teller who had predicted during last spring training that the yanks would have a very good year? It was reported in a NY times article.
I heard that she just predicted a terrible 2010 for us.”
No kidding. I remember her. I quoted her enough.
I do remember one of them saying that Jeter was going to have the worst year of his career this year…
I’m fond of saying that they don’t get it right all the time!
There is a reason that good starters make very good relievers. It’s a lot easier to relieve.
Hughes and Joba are more talented than Zumaya.
big DP.
You can’t trust the YES gun during spring training. He blew the guy away with his heater, that’s all I need to see
“Kay: Good fastball there by Joba
Radar gun: 89 MPH”
its pretty obvious the radar gun is slow today..chad said that zumaya was throwin 100-101…yes did not say that as far as i can recall
What a flat fastball, he needs AAA IMO.
gun is broken
BIG DP.
Come on Joba!!!
BIG DP.
Come on Joba!!!
another base hit
Joba looks far from impressive. If these AA players are putting such good wood on the ball, what will Youkallis-Drew-Martinez do in Fenway next week?
Right now, Robertson is the 8th inning guy.
Joba is giving up hits to scrubs.
is that joba’s father behind homeplate there? i am being totally serious by the way
Kay is so annoying.
“You can’t trust the YES gun during spring training. ”
It’s often not much better in the regular season. That’s why I like Gameday and PitchFx.
Yellow card, randy.
“There is a reason that good starters make very good relievers. It’s a lot easier to relieve.
Hughes and Joba are more talented than Zumaya.”
I have no trouble buying that.
Do you think that Hughes and Joba are more talented than Mo?
Zumaya’s velocity was fine… 98-99 on most FBs.
AJ’s seemed normal too… 93-94.
Good boy Joba!!!
hanging pitch down the middle, scrub misses it.
“is that joba’s father behind homeplate there? ”
I think it was. I saw a fistpump there.
I doubt Joba can even strike out my cat.
As Tino said on the broadcast… that last slider was hanging. Got lucky the guy decided to take it.
Right now, this outing showed me nothing aside from he got lucky that he was facing AA hitters….
trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!!
March 27th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
Do you think that Hughes and Joba are more talented than Mo?
——————————————————
You can’t compare. It’s not fair. Mo isn’t human.
“Do you think that Hughes and Joba are more talented than Mo?”
As starters, but Mo is the outlier of all outliers. He basically uses one pitch, and his command is so good that he is still effective even though it was once in the mid-90s and it was in the high-80s in the WS.
Wish I could have watched Zumaya’s inning. I hear he looked great.
If you like RP that throw hard go watch Farnsworth.
“gun is broken”
the gun is fine, he had no life in the fastball today. That kid honestly needs AAA.
The best thing about Joba’s outing is that he is inducing groundballs.
joba pitched like krap hopefully he gets better. gun numbers weren’t great either.
He throws that last slider to a major leaguer, it ends up in the seats. Very bleh outing by Joba.
“It’s often not much better in the regular season. That’s why I like Gameday and PitchFx.”
Yes I agree.
And randy, that was kind of uncalled for dude. Chad commented on Zumaya so CB made a fairly lengthy post about the guy and his velocity. Are you now the blog arbiter? You alone decide what is valid conversation? Relax…
tim
March 27th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
I doubt Joba can even strike out my cat.
—————————————————
In Joba’s defense, that would have to be a pretty small strike zone.
Joba topped out at 94 according to Carig and Hoch.
Joba looked ok, not great.
“You can’t compare. It’s not fair. Mo isn’t human.”
I know. I threw that out there to be controversial.
I doubt some of you have functional brains during games.
This was not a “big” game. It’s about getting your work in and nothing more.
It’s a shame some of the children on here have no understanding of what ST games are all about.
Phil, he sure did. Phil struck out a lot of hitters even as a starter, so who cares if he doesn’t throw 95 on a regular basis? He’s got really good stuff and I think it’s underrated because of the velocity issue.
Thanks Patrick.
really, cause i swore hughes won the 5th starter job, because he pitched better.
As much as I want to defend my boy Joba, he didn’t look too great today.
I’m not worried because it’s still march but the fact remains, Joba right now compared to Joba pre-injury in 2008 is night and day. Mechanics, stuff, everything looks completely different now
The silver lining is that Joba’s ERA just dropped by 25% after that outing.
Bradon, Really…Wasn’t it Joba getting important outs in the WS?
He’s throwing 94. That’s better than he’s thrown this early in the last 2 ST’s.
He neither needs AAA or is going to AAA.
Just plunk the cat. That’ll learn him.
No thanks for me????
Sheesh.
Even the NYYfans folks who drool over Joba think he looked bad today and is ‘dead’.
Ugh
Maybe so, SJ, but he still didn’t look great. It’s kind of how I feel about AJ’s stuff.. That said, Kay was ridiculous, implying that Joba’s best could be in the past. At age 24? Please. Sometimes I wonder how much Kay really knows.
“Bradon, Really…Wasn’t it Joba getting important outs in the WS?”
Pedro Feliz the weakest power hitter in the NL saids “What’s up”
“implying that Joba’s best could be in the past.”
If he doesn’t regain that Pre-Texas velocity, he is right on the money. Certainly not an outrageous statement.
If he throwing 92-94 like this, he is average.
Rocco, I stopped posting there basically because IMO, they are hopeless. Joba didn’t look great, but he didn’t look dead. They made those comments because they think the Yankes are morons. In fact one guy called Cash a moron for making the comments he made about Joba…. They want to believe the Yanks ruined Job (and Phil), so they will say anything to support that notion.
Good game, all. Thanks for the interaction.
Here’s the updated chart. If you want on, just leave a post and put my name in it. You have until the end of ST.
http://members.cox.net/lsdorgan/2010%20SEASON1.pdf
Does Joba really need to throw 96-98 to be successful? I just think Kay is a total reactionary. When Phil struggled in August 2007 (gee, I wonder why), Kay trashed him and said he doesn’t look special anymore. I couldn’t believe he didn’t understand just how serious Phil’s injuries were. Now I think he’s overreacting to Joba – he’s an extremist.
Everybody can give up something on one pitch Brandon.
Betsy,
the kid just needs to pitch without every pitch analyized as if it’s the 7th game of the WS.
Especially when those doing the analysis are clueless.
Attorney General!
And Betsy if he’s throwing like that vs ML hitters they are clocking those. He wasn’t dominating these A and AA hitters they threw out there. Lets not over praise that outing.
They need to send this guy to Nardi. He is a pitching guru according to some blogs I have read.
Nardi can fix anyone, apparently. So why not let him fix Joba?
BJK
March 27th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Please excuse me for being late to the Joba discussion this morning, but I’m a West Coaster.
I think there’s a philosophical difference between the way people are looking at this. I keep reading posts that make excellent points that Joba hasn’t earned his spot in the rotation. That is true.
But I don’t look at it from that perspective. For me, it’s about what’s best for the Yankees. “Fairness” to Joba isn’t the issue.
It’s up to the parent to provide the child with the best opportunites to succeed. If you’re raising a genius with potential off the charts, but fail to nurture that child correctly, the child will likely never reach full potential.
So far, the Yankees are failing with Joba.
Who would you rather start a team with: Lester or Papelbon? Greinke or Soria?
If you can’t find a way to take a guy who has been a starter his whole career, rated with 4 plus pitches, and make him a successful starter, there’s a problem with the school.
This was the year Joba was supposed to fly uninhibited and see what he’s got. It may be true that he will never put it together and be a successful starter. But if this is it, the Yankees pulled the plug too early. My fear is that now we will never know. And that bugs me because having a young elite starter for 10 years is more valuable than having relievers.
I’ll take Greinke over Soria every time.
***********************************************************
This is the best post on the whole subject of Joba that I’ve seen on this blog in months.
spot on.
If as I suspect CaSh views this demotion as an attempt to “wake” Joba up then good for him and I hope it works.
I also think that Joba can benefit from a few of Mo’s sermons over the course of the season and hope he shows up a willing disciple.It will be helpful not only to his development as a pitcher/player but more importantly as a man/father/human being.
Joba can,may and should re emerge next year in the rotation as a more complete work and be ready to claim his future and go at ‘em.
Joba btw on many occasions in his starts last yr hit 95-97 with his 4 seamer although he “sat” 90-93 throwing more 2 seamers pitching to contact as Eiland instructed him to do.
The rumors of his diminished velo are greatly exxagerated…imo.
How sad.
How far Joba chamberlain has fallen this days? He’s reduced to having to prove himself against domestic animals.
Joba is easily the most over analyzed and over scrutinized young pitcher in the history of baseball.
Thank you too Nick. I actually didn’t know what that meant.
lol, guys. I was listening to the Tigers audio feed.
This is all paraphrasing, but this is what came over the internet:
Joba threw a pitch. They said, “91. It looked a little harder than that. Radar gun’s acting up.”
And then later they said, “It’s really acting up. They put it away”
Betsy – Cashman is a moron. Hes yanked Chamberlin around like a chain… I wonder if hes messed up his head … Even a few days ago Cashman muttered something about Joba being a starter again in the future. Stick him in one role and let him develop. By constantly putting the guy in limbo I dont see how that helps him.
Cashman as the GM of a mediocre team would be an average GM… It sure is much easier when your handed 200 million dollars every year to construct a team. I cant argue with Cashmans results but lets be fair – $$$ has a lot to do with this.
“He’s throwing 94″
Topping out at 94 does not = throwing 94
Brandon: “Pedro Feliz the weakest power hitter in the NL saids “What’s up””
Again, it’s spring training. Joba answered the bell in the most important games of last year and you are questioning his first closing effort in spring training where he was successful? He’s been great in the pen for two years, relax…he has nothing to prove in AAA and will not be sent back there.
Hughes’ ball moves. Joba’s does not – his FB is straight.
Joba needs the extra velocity, Hughes can get by with less because of his movement.
SJ, that’s fair………I agree with you. Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s going to happen. I have my crystal ball in front of me and I predict the following:
1) Fans and media will have no patience with Phil and will continue to harp on whether the Yanks made the right choice (if/when he struggles), esp. if Joba looks good in the pen.
2) Joba will be examined, poked, prodded and put under a microscope as if he were a speciman.
3) Fans will proclaim that the Yankees have ruined Joba. They will question what happened to his velocity.
4) Fans will wonder where Phil’s velocity is and if he’s really just a soft-tosser now.
I didn’t really expect thanks, I was just kidding.
Think soccer penalty.
If Chamberlain had the movement on his fastball that Hughes does, he can get away with not throwing as hard. Joba needs the extra juice – otherwise, it is just a straight 92-94 MPH fastball.
92-94 for Hughes does not = 92-94 for Joba.
Ken, we don’t agree much and we don’t agree here. I love Cash – I think he’s a very good GM.
“the kid just needs to pitch without every pitch analyized as if it’s the 7th game of the WS.
Especially when those doing the analysis are clueless.”
A serious question: Is that possible in NY?
I don’t think so even if you duct taped the mouth of every fan, clueless or not.
The media won’t stop.
IMO, that’s another reason (in addition to giving him a chance to: work on his approach to the game as a starter, hone his four pitches, and build up arm strength) to let him begin the season at AAA.
Ken,
Congratulations. That may be the dumbest post of the day.
Cash is a moron? That’s pretty funny coming from an overheated fan boy poster on a blog.
Ok, got it Jake and Mark – thanks!
I still expect Joba to be fine; my comment about him not looking great was just a comment about today. I don’t think it’s predictive of the future.
i get lets judge joba as a starter, but can’ criticze him when he a reliever.
love the hypocriscy.
having said that st are still meaningless.
gave up a couple see singles.
fastball wasn’t bad. slider so and so.
in a week time joba will be mowing hitters down from the pen
I just figured it out. And I do appreciate it so I do thank you. I actually enjoy peace in the valley and am doing my part to keep it that way.
I think Joba is just need of a peace of mind. Listen to some tunes. I suggest he wears an ipod on the mound.
patrick-
if you like to read 13 comments about something when it can be said in one or two, knock yourself out.
Brian Cashman is a very good GM. The Yankees plan to develop Joba Chamberlain as a starting pitcher, has been poorly thought out, poorly executed, and very reactionary as opposed to proactive.
He will have scrutiny in AAA as a “failed” pitcher. At least that will be the perception.
Fans will be fans. In the end, what they say or write is meaningless.
As long as Joba keeps his focus and just pitch, he will be fine.
Joba looked pretty good today. It’s not easy to all of a sudden change your regimen and become a reliever mid-stride.
Has anyone else thought that Chamberlain struggles as a starter are because hes out of shape? He seems to do fine when he can let it all air out for one inning but over the course of a full game he falters. Im surprised he isnt on some sort of diet. For a young man, he looks to be rather out of shape and not well muscled. Id hate to see his physique by his late 30s if he doesnt start slimming down.
Not everything is the Yankees fault; Joba has to take a large share of the “blame” for what went wrong. Either way, he hasn’t been ruined and his future is still quite bright.
Also remember, FWIW, that this is Joba’s first time out since getting the news. So maybe we cut him a little slack for that, not that he was terrible, because he wasn’t.
“Cashman is a moron. Hes yanked Chamberlin around like a chain…”
As I posted before it happened in 2007, I would not have put Joba in the pen because I feared that he would be so good that people (and maybe the Yankees) wouldn’t want him to be a starter, but to call Cashman a moron is laughable (and I’m being kind).
Because despite my trepidation, numerous starters have begun their careers in the pen. Yet he is too talented not to try as a starter. That’s what they did in 2008, and it worked perfectly until he got hurt.
Unless you think Cashman is the reason that he got hurt, you argument falls of its own weight.
They were trying to balance two goals at once, both in 2008 and 2009: Make Joba a starter (where he belongs) while ensuring that he didn’t exceed his innings cap.
Are you aware that they consulted with Dr. Andrews on how to use him in 2009? Is he a moron too?
Or maybe moron doesn’t mean what the dictionary says it does.
I think that Joba should start the season at AAA, but the problem you are decrying is not on Cashman. It’s that ownership wants to win now. It’s very tough to do that while developing kids. I think it’s a mistake not to place more emphasis on developing kids, but that’s not on Cashman.
“He will have scrutiny in AAA as a “failed” pitcher. At least that will be the perception.”
As much scrutiny in SWB as NYC? They don’t call it the Big Apple for nothing.
Sj , dont you agree it is easy to look good when your owner hands you a blank check and a pen to write out to names like CC, Tex and Burnett. Im not saying the guys an idiot but as a Yankee fan I have to be fair. I dont think he can really be evaluated fairly unless you stick him on a team like the Astros and see how he does with an average budget. Cashman knows he has it good here. I have to be fair.
SJ44
Didn’t you know that the beauty of the internet is that we can over analyze ST games.
I think we have to be careful before we judge someone as out of shape. Everyone is born with a body type and I think Joba is probably an endomorph. The point is, genetics and mother nature combine to make someone what they are. Joba may or may not be in shape, but he’s never going to look “pretty” because that’s not his build.
Very unimpressive outing on the part of Joba as a reliever. He no longer has the pure velocity to be a lights-out reliever. He should be developing his craft and his career as a starter. This is going to be a wasted year in his career…yet another, thanks to the Yankees’ management.
How does the way they ‘handled him’ account for his considerable loss in velocity?
Did they purposely change his mechanics so he wouldn’t throw as hard or something?
How is it their fault he got shoulder tendinitis?
So Cash is a moron but not an idiot? What?
“I dont think he can really be evaluated fairly unless you stick him on a team like the Astros and see how he does with an average budget.”
Then the same thing can be said about Theo.
Or the CEO of a Fortune 100 corp compared to a start-up business.
There is more than one way to measure managerial success.
The reaction this entire Chamberlain situation is pretty easy to explain – entitled fans counted their chickens way too soon and the Hall-of-Fame 22 starter they counted on having has seemingly been taken away, so now they’re angry and bitter… any and bitter at Cashman, at the Yankees organization and at Chamberlain himself that they can’t go on message boards and crow about how superhuman he is.
He might never, ever be what he LOOKED like he may be. How you deal with this possibility is a pretty good litmus test
of how emotionally evolved you are.
“As much scrutiny in SWB as NYC? They don’t call it the Big Apple for nothing.”
Initially, that is what the perception will be. It will wear off eventually but the initial buzz is going to be that he was a failed starter and the Yankees ruined him.
And if Robertson or someone blows a game late in Fenway, his name is going to surface again.
randy
Good to see you post. For a minute I thought you changed your name to Ken.
LOL Stuckey – so true. Phil and Joba should start boning up on how to flip burgers; they have no future in baseball.
“He will have scrutiny in AAA as a “failed” pitcher. At least that will be the perception.”
I’d imagine he’s going to be under incredible scrutiny in whatever role he assumes with the big club. In fact, the scrutiny in FLA has been about as significant as it can get for spring training this year.
As for being viewed as a “failed” pitcher, the very nature of a competition sort of lends itself to success or failure. In the eyes of some fans, he may well be viewed as a failed pitcher. But that means zippidity do da. What’s important is that Joba doesn’t look in the mirror and see a failed pitcher.
Perhaps they don’t want to send him to AAA because they feel the best way for him to rediscover his old self is to be placed in a situation where he has to throw max velocity, be focused at all times, and perform in pressure situations. He doesn’t have to experiment or pace himself or anything, he simply has to throw his best pitches and execute them.
Look at the way he was throwing today – if he were facing the Sox, that might have been a few runs. Youkallis is not taking that hanging slider for a called strike 3. Against minor leaguers, it was a relatively stress-free inning.
Okay, it’s pretty obvious to nearly everyone that Joba doesn’t have the same zip on the fastball (or any zip at times). But the question is why. Something is screwed up, whether it’s an injury, mechanics, fittness, etc.
If Joba is smart he will continue to pitch out of the bullpen from 90-93 like he did today. He can still be very effective and that way the yanks will probably give him a shot next year as a starter.
If he starts throwing 97-98mph again no way they are taking him out of the bullpen.
Anyway is velocity has dropped since his injury in Texas. He used to hit 94-98 mph as a starter but people forget that and blame it because he is not in the bullpen.
randy,
Just pointing out that it’s unfair to criticize one person for a topic and not calling out others that were doing the same thing.
Honestly, I only read CB’s comment about Zumaya, I didn’t read any of what trisha said on the subject.
“Initially, that is what the perception will be. It will wear off eventually but the initial buzz is going to be that he was a failed starter and the Yankees ruined him.”
To some, that is already the case.
And if Robertson or someone blows a game late in Fenway, his name is going to surface again.”
You mean if Joba starts the season at AAA? Sure, but I don’t think the Yankees would let that affect them.
And even if Joba starts the season at AAA as a starter, that wouldn’t preclude using him as a reliever in NY at some point in the season.
I think he has a better chance to right himself at AAA, while building up arm strength and remaining stretched out, at least for a while.
“Okay, it’s pretty obvious to nearly everyone that Joba doesn’t have the same zip on the fastball”
Is waiting until May to cast judgment on his velocity SO difficult a concept?
new post
“Is waiting until May to cast judgment on his velocity SO difficult a concept?”
Apparently so… *sigh*
It really is pointless to look at the gun this early on. Like you say, May at the earliest has some meaning.
I see Jon Weber is still with the team could it be that they decided to maybe just keep him up due to his great performance and ride him while hes hot he deserves it
“I think when they stop talking about me is when I probably should worry,” Chamberlain said.
I liked this quote.