That’s a relief
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Podcast on Mar 27, 2010 
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Joba Chamberlain pitched well in his first relief outing since losing the fifth-starter competition. Chamberlain closed today’s 2-1 Yankees win with a scoreless ninth inning.
Maybe he’s now battling for the closer’s role.
“There’s somebody in front of me I think you might have heard of,” he said. “I’m going with the intent that I’m probably going to lose that one.”
Chamberlain threw all fastballs and sliders, with his four-seamer sitting at 93-94 mph. He allowed a lead-off single on a 2-2 slider, but his very next pitch was a double play. He struck out Scott Sizemore to end the game, throwing a 94-mph fastball to setup a last-pitch slider.
“You don’t want to give up the lead for sure and lose the game,” Chamberlain said. “It was a good position to be in for my first one.”
Here’s the Chamberlain audio.
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That is, of course, an Associated Press photo.
Haha really Chad? I thought you might have taken that shot
David Robertson is better.
don’t know what happened to the Joba Chamberlain from 2007. But that wasn’t him in the playoffs, last year. Very average
I have little doubt that he will be successful in the pen. The only issue is how successful.
he was ok, nothing more, nothing less
His jealousy over Hughes victory may be his undoing
YES had his four seamer at 89-92. He gave up two hits to bums. Brett Gardner walked today. He struck out twice. Why don’t you guys accentuate the walk? He looked great, making the pitcher throw four balls to him.
“I have little doubt that he will be successful in the pen. The only issue is how successful.”
If he potches like he did in the WS, that is fine by me.
Based on the comments in the previous post, there’s a considerable amount of concern about Chamberlain. My only thought on the matter is it has to be given more time. I don’t think anyone knows what kind of reliever he’s going to be this season based on a few playoff appearances last year and a few starts this spring.
Chamberlain was fine today. He wasn’t overwhelming, but he was fine. Probably got lucky on that strikeout pitch, but that happens. Sitting at 93-94 isn’t bad. Give it more time before deciding it’s a disaster.
I’m not sure who Girardi goes to in the 8th inning if the season started today.
Robertson has walked 5 guys in 5.1 innings this spring, something that has plagued him his entire career.
Would he trust Park so soon? Would he to go Joba based on reputation?
Marte might be his guy.
Was the double-play ball wind aided?
I’m not sure what people were expecting from Joba.
The reason why he doesn’t look like he did in 2007 is not his role. That’s just a confounding factor.
Expecting him to suddenly turn back into a guy with an 80 fastball and 80 slider just because he changed roles isn’t realistic.
The role is not the cause.
The best thing about Joba being in the pen this year is that the fans & media that keep holding onto 2007 will have to face reality.
When Joba was a dominant reliever @ 95-100 mph he was also dominant starter @ 94-98 mph. Since the injury in 2008 he has not been >97 mph in either role.
The 97-100 mph Joba is history.
“The role is not the cause.”
Very few people realize this. I hope the Yankees know that what you say is true.
I think Joba can get away with his diminished stuff while in the pen but he’ll never pitch as well as he did in 2007 and 2008 until he improves his mechanics. Which is kind of why I’m starting to lean to the “Joba should go to AAA” camp.
Ah, CB, but those who opine about Joba’s ‘makeup’ and ‘mentality’ and other psychological observations would suggest that the role is crucial, no?
I wonder what P e t e r A b r a h a m think of Joba these days.
David Robertson is not even in Joba’s class. If Joba had a 3.30 era last year out of the bullpen like Robertson did people would be complaining how bad Joba been.
Out of the bullpen
Robertson major league career era is 4.14 era
Chamberlain major league career era is 1.50 era
Its not even close.
Chamberlain may have gotten lucky on the strikeout on the hanging slider, but, he didn’t have much luck when they snuck the 2nd hit through the infield. He did exactly what he needed to do. He didn’t let things get out of hand. He went right after the hitters.
Patrick
March 27th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
“The role is not the cause.”
Very few people realize this. I hope the Yankees know that what you say is true.
I think Joba can get away with his diminished stuff while in the pen but he’ll never pitch as well as he did in 2007 and 2008 until he improves his mechanics. Which is kind of why I’m starting to lean to the “Joba should go to AAA” camp.
—————————–
lol It looks like I’m not crazy after all huh?
apparently Zumaya didn’t get the ‘spring training doesn’t count’ memo.
yikes!
that could not have been fun facing him.
“let’s see, I’ll start my swing NOW” (Zumaya’s still in his windup.)
“those who opine about Joba’s ‘makeup’ and ‘mentality’ and other psychological observations would suggest that the role is crucial, no?”
It as if pumping one’s fist were more important than pitching effectively.
People try to derive conclusions based on outward appearance that outward appearances just can’t act as evidence for.
We still keep hearing about Joba’s legendary playoff performance from 2009.
Joba threw 6 innings out of the bull pen in 2009. He game up 9 hits. That’s hardly vintage Joba.
It’s not the role.
“It looks like I’m not crazy after all huh?”
Hank? Is it you?
Nick in SF in Santa Rosa
March 27th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
“It looks like I’m not crazy after all huh?”
Hank? Is it you?
—————-
No, I actually watch the team.
Not all idiots are crazy, but, they’re still idiots.
I never thought you were crazy either GB7.
CB
March 27th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
“those who opine about Joba’s ‘makeup’ and ‘mentality’ and other psychological observations would suggest that the role is crucial, no?”
It as if pumping one’s fist were more important than pitching effectively.
People try to derive conclusions based on outward appearance that outward appearances just can’t act as evidence for.
We still keep hearing about Joba’s legendary playoff performance from 2009.
Joba threw 6 innings out of the bull pen in 2009. He game up 9 hits. That’s hardly vintage Joba.
It’s not the role.
——————————–
lol I don’t know about you but I held my breath on every pitch he threw during those innings. That was luck.
I hope he’s changed though and gotten back to his pre-injury form. But I think theres more to the story than the Yankees are letting public.
He looked ok, not great……….but I’m not worried and one outing means nothing. If Joba continues to work hard, he’ll be just fine.
I agree that it’s not the role because Joba did not look great in the pen last year. I feel badly for him in a way because his velocity seems to have taken a severe downward turn, due to either poor luck (injury) or poor mechanics. I can’t speak for Joba’s mechanics, but if it was the tendonitis, that would stink. That said, if Joba ends up “only” being able to throw 93-94, then he’ll need to adjust to that; I think he will.
Girardi has some great options in the pen this year. There’s four legitimate candidates to setup Rivera – Chamberlain, Robertson, Park and Marte. I’m counting on Aceves and Mitre to handle middle relief and any spot starts. I also like Melancon to make an impact at some point.
Joba now has Hughes velocity (91-95 mph in rotation & 93-96 mph in pen) without Hughes excellent fastball command. He was always a guy that needed that extra velocity to get away with mistakes within the zone with his fastball.
Last year they didn’t foul off or swing through his reduced velocity fastball, so he started nibbling on corners with his fastball, causing deep counts because he never had plus fastball command.
The slider is less effective than 07 because he’s predictable with throwing & the batter has more time to judge the slider when he doesn’t have to react to 96-100 mph fastball.
Joba was 92-95 mph in college, then the Yankees altered his mechanics and he started throwing 97+ mph. His velocity drop has nothing to do with having a reliever mentality or holding back. Either he is worried about getting injured again or his mechanics are a mess.
Also, as a sleeper, Romulo Sanchez at SCR brings it in the mid to high 90′s. He’ll be in the starting rotation at SCR but is on the 40 man roster and could pitch out of the pen.
It would seem that the support for Hughes is going to make for a difficult year for Joba. He did say it “was stupid”, according to a fan at an autograph signing that he wasn’t chosen the fifth starter. Is he a survivor is the real question? Can he overcome this adversity early in his career to become Mo’s successor? He has to look at the big picture and stay focused.
The slider is less effective than 07 because he’s predictable with throwing it & the batter has more time to judge the slider when he doesn’t have to react to a 96-100 mph fastball.
Chamberlain was obviously juicing in 2007. Without the drugs, he’s very ordinary. Too bad, he was exciting.
“Betsy – Romine wasn’t built in a day March 27th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
He looked ok, not great……….but I’m not worried and one outing means nothing. If Joba continues to work hard, he’ll be just fine.”
That’s the key Betsy he has to embrace that role now and run with it.
Hey it just may be that he is destined for being the future closer of the New York Yankees.
If that is the case would be 1 less headache when Rivera hangs it up.
I just think being in the pen forces Joba to bear down and throw strikes the margin for error is less, but moreover he only has to focus on a couple of pitches, his fastball and slider and locating them.
Once he locates those pitches, its good morning, good afternoon and good night.
In the rotation he not only was working with more pitches, more innings, but had to then harness and locate all those pitches.
Its much more simplified in the bullpen, throw strikes with your fastball well located and drop in the slider.
Joba is an intense guy and I feel even though I wanted him to start he will be fantastic once again in the bullpen and it just may be where his future lies.
He seems to love the 1 on 1 late inning matchups and it fuels him. Remember when the veins in his neck would be twitching when he came up in 2007 and was in the game late, followed by the fist pump.
Here’s to him pumping his fist a whole lot this season, will mean good things are afoot.
93-94. Wait, I thought idiots like Mike Francesa, Andrew Marchand and others kept telling me that when he comes out of the pen he’s instantly 97+ out of the pen. This is exactly range Chamberlain was sitting at during his last few starts at spring training. 2 hits allowed in 1 inning? Wow Joba the reliever is really much more dominant than Joba the starter.
What is progress?
It doesn’t matter how hard Sanchez throws if he can’t get more than 3 out of 5 pitches into the strike zone. Right now, he’s Jose veras.
The so-called “stupid” comment should really not be repeated as fact.
/melky track star’d
Joba should try and get some more movement on his fastball.
Rather than trying to throw the ball through the wall and only hitting 94-95, he should take something off it and try throwing 91-92 with better movement and location. That combined with his slider and solid change up, should be a pretty good reliever.
WOW…I read this blog every day but hardly ever comment. Sometimes it seems to go downhill fast and actually becomes laughable. Some supposed fan said that Joba told him it was stupid they chose Phil over him…give me a break if you believe that and shame on anyone for even posting it. I highly doubt he would say something like to some person he doesn’t know even if in fact he did feel like it. I think it would be nice to give him some time to get acclimated back to his role in the pen besides a few innings last year in the WS.
Sometimes Yankee fans just totally amaze me and not in a good way either …
Here’s to both Phil & Joba with success in their roles which only mean success for the Yankees.
Go Yankees 2010 !!!
Hughes
91-95 mph fastball with command & movement
Chamberlain
92-96 mph fastball with average command & straight
Hughes was better last year in the pen than Joba was in 2008 & 2009. Without that 96+ heat, Joba is no longer on Hughes level as a young pitcher.
I’ve got a bunch of thoughts running through my head and want to get some of them down. They may be a little disjointed (okay more disjointed than usual ha ha) because I should be getting ready to go out.
1. Phil baasically went through the same thing and was also scrutinized last year. He survived. After his disastrous starts at the beginning of 2008, there was no real way to know what his future was going to be, especially since he was so damned effective in the pen. I always believed he would be a starter for the Yankees no matter, but that was me in my world. There were no really clear signals that was going to be the case.
2. Joba has always been more highly publicized/scrutinized/analyzed than Phil, partly because of the scary good reputation that preceded him, partly because of his personality, partly because of the Joba rules. He was annointed as the future king of the Yankees, his fastball to be totally feared, his array of pitches to beat the best. Well something happened on the way to the forum (ahem) and he finds himself on the short end of the stick right now. But so was Phil last year. And Joba is a year behind Phil in his development.
3. Phil came to the Yankees more mature than most of the veterans. Joba is a big kid. They came up in different ways, socially and pitching wise. They are both loaded with potential, but there is not a one-size-fits-all when it comes to them. I adore Joba, and I was so impressed with him when he told the press that it was his job to make the pitches in spite of the midges, no excuses. Of course I wanted to punch St. Joe’s lights out that night, but I was still impressed with the maturity Joba showed in taking it the way he did. However, the firestorm that followed him every since and the endless publicity I believe was much too much for someone with his maturity level, especially, to deal with. He began to believe his own press and I notice that at times he doesn’t seem to take responsibility or be in total touch with reality. Did he REALLY believe he did a good job this spring? Is it just for public consumption because if he says otherwise he thinks he will be dooming himself a failure? I don’t know but I do believe the entire panoply of circumstances haven’t helped his situation.
4. I totally believe that Joba’s destiny is to start for the Yankees. But again that’s just me in my world. Nobody is saying that it’s going to be the case. I only hope and pray that whatever it takes to get Joba back to square one, to get him back to the mentality he had when he first broke on the scene, I pray that the forces come together and smile kindly on him and smooth the path. He is a kid who is loaded with potential and still needs the help to get him there. He is not Phil Hughes. As I said before, I believe the Yankees could have assigned Phil to Ringling Brothers as a juggler and he would have found a way to break the starting rotation. He’s inner directed, focused, and mature. Maybe Joba needs to find a little of the humility that Phil has taken along with him on his journey.
Hope I made sense.
Peace out.
from espn’s mlb insider rumors:
“As of now, Dunn will start the season at first, but manager Jim Riggleman plans to use a defensive replacement if the Nats are winning in the late innings.”
something tells me Riggleman won’t need to worry about pulling that trigger very often.
the Nats are still a few yrs away from being legit, imho.
Trish-
2 words- Well said!
The Nats stink – They should trade Zimmerman and Stratsburg to big market teams where those guys can actually win. Why should those 2 stars be restricted to perennial cellar dwellers like the Nats?
I’ve seen a grand total of 4 spring training innings but I find it amusing how people jump to conclusions based on the results in early to mid March. Marcus Thames was batting what, .094?, a few days ago. He’s 2-6 with a dinger in the last 2 games batting against lefties, exactly the way he will be used during the season. I’m sure Girardi was giving him looks earlier against righties just to see how it could handle them and the answer is pretty clear, he can’t. AJ has pitched badly all spring, amazingly enough he throws 6+ today of excellent baseball.
As for Joba, if he was 93-94 today, it’s still very early, that doesn’t mean he won’t be 96-97 down the road. It takes pitchers a long time to get their top stuff in a season, just look at CC last year-many on this blog were calling him ‘not an Ace’ and ‘Overpaid’ until the 2nd half when he was lights out. I hope that if he gets off to a similar slow start this year the reaction is more like ‘he’ll be fine, it’s this way every year and he’ll still win 18-20 games with fewer than 10 losses’.
The most ironic part about the fist pumping, fireballing, mental midget Joba is better suited to the pen or is a born reliever is that our legendary closer, the best closer in the history of baseball, is nothing like that.
Darren Oliver was out of baseball, having drinks @the ’05 winter meetings w/old friends who happened to be Mets execs.
they asked how he felt. he said, “Out of shape, but the arm’s OK.”
that was over $10M ago:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....eer-032710
Joba lost his velo after the 2008 start in Texas where he had shoulder tendinitis. He has not been the same since. The same thing happened to Verlander but he regained it after a few years. We will see if Joba does too. If not now is the time to trade him. Another team that has the time to develop him would get an ace in the process and we should get a Great player or several for him.
“If not now is the time to trade him”
You lost me with this sentence.
Trading low is one of the most ill-conceived moves that an organization can make. That’s what you are suggesting.
I think the facts overwhelmingly support the contrary position:
1) Joba will still be effective enough to he a valuable member of the pen, possibly one of the best 8th inning relievers in MLB.
2) As you point out, it’s not primarily about development, it’s about regaining arm strength, and as a result, velo. The Yankees are better positioned to wait for that to happen (while he pitches effectively at his present velo) than any other team in MLB.
3) What do you think they could get for him at his present value that would be better than what he currently contributes to the Yankees?
The answer is almost certainly nothing. No one is going to give “a Great player” for him now, let alone several.
I’ll take my chances with Joba and his 1.5 ERA as a reliever…
Partly because of vacation and partly by choice I have not sat down to watch much spring training baseball. As excited as I am for the season to start, and as much as I wanted to see the Yankees again, I had the feeling that this spring particularly was a “working” spring – in other words, the results of the games were not going to be all that important. I didn’t want to get caught up in the games, and I didn’t want to get attached to players who probably would not be around April 1st (Curtis Granderson).
I can’t wait for next week, when everything is settled as far as the roster goes, and the games count – when pitchers throw pitches for results and not to work on them. When hitters are really bearing down – not being afraid to waste all their bullets in games that don’t mean anything.
LGY -
Wow! Great point there.
How true.
Looks as if Girardi is going to have Chamberlain pitch a few multiple inning games out of the pen in 2010 with the thought of having the 6 inning games again. It’s at least something to think about and look for.
Chamberlain said that he did alright and felt good, but, needs to get back into the bullpen routine because he felt that he threw too many pitches warming up in the pen. Thankfully, he has Rivera down there to teach and get him back into the mindset.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy
Here’s to both Phil & Joba with success in their roles which only mean success for the Yankees.
======================
This. YES.
Joba’s FB was alright. It’ll get better. He hasn’t really pitched a lot this spring.
His slider? I didn’t recognize it. I thought it was a curve as I didn’t see much lateral movement if any.
But you know how they say some pitchers pitch to the scoreboard?
Joba sort of “pitches to the venue”
Either he is worried about getting injured again or his mechanics are a mess.
————
I think it’s a mixture of both. I think the Yankees have decided that he stands the best chance to improve his mechanics with the major league club as a reliever throwing mostly 2 pitches instead of 4. The role is a factor affecting his mechanics that he would be throwing mostly fastball, slider as a reliever rather than fastball, slider, curve, change as a starter. This is why Joba kept shaking off signals as a starter. His mechanics were never refined enough for him to comfortably throw any pitch in any count. He’s really only confident in his fastball and slider. Give him a full year of relieving in the bigs and maybe he starts to feel confident enough with his delivery and command of 2 pitches that he dials it up without fear of injury.
“His velocity drop has nothing to do with having a reliever mentality or holding back. Either he is worried about getting injured again or his mechanics are a mess.”
If he is worried about getting injured again, isn’t it possible that he is, in effect, holding back?
Jeter says when his playing days are over, he want’s “To Be Like Mike” (Jordan).He said that he didn’t want just a piece of a team, he wants to be the majority owner.
That seems to leave out being the Yankees. I would guess that the Tampa Devil Rays might be in his future. Perhaps with Tino Martinez getting involved.
One other possibility would be Houston, where Andy Pettitte might be interested in that side of baseball. This is just my thoughts….nothing was said about any team or adding others to the ownership groups.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy
I only caught bits and pieces of them game today but reading through some of the comments it sounds like the Yankees lost 8-2 instead of won 2-1.
I heard a bit of a Jorge interview on a show after the game (Yankees Magazine I’m guessing) and he was talking about how in ST sometimes you watch 2 fastballs down the middle to get yourself into an 0-2 count so you can get yourself back into the mindset of that situation for when the season starts.
Another concrete example of why ST results shouldn’t be taken so seriously.
I’m going to judge Joba when the bell rings in April and how he does between then and when the weather turns warm in late May. Any type of evaluation now is not really worth doing in my opinion.
The Rays might not be in Tampa by the time Jeter retires.
Have to agree with you, pat. ST is the place to sacrifice pitches and at bats in order to gain knowledge on pitches and movements. I would imagine that it’s difficult for veterans to get very excited about games that mean absolutely zero, so, they play games with themselves…much like pitchers do with using just the pitches that they need work on or are trying to develop.
Jeter is going to need a more deep pocketed partner(s) than Tino or Pettitte.
GB
Clemens got a vehicle as a parting gift when he retired, I figured the Steinbrenners would get Jeter the SWB Yankees when his day comes.
“Jeter is going to need a more deep pocketed partner(s) than Tino or Pettitte.”
Federer or Tiger???
I seriously doubt that any new ownership is going to take on a lawsuit that would go with trying to move the Devil Rays. They still have 17 years to go on a lease with the city for the Trop.
pat
March 27th, 2010 at 7:23 pm
GB
Clemens got a vehicle as a parting gift when he retired, I figured the Steinbrenners would get Jeter the SWB Yankees when his day comes.
————————————————————
Not sure that the Steinbrenners own the scranton team, though. Just a working agreement. Maybe they give him the Tampa Yankees High a team, though, and lease him Jeter (GMS) Stadium for a dollar a year, plus half of the concessions.
I believe the SWB team is owned by an entertainment conglomerate and the field is owned by the county.
Wasn’t sure who actually owned the Scranton team. I figured that it was just a working agreement with the team owners to supply players and equipment, much like Charleston. Back years ago, NYY owned most if not all of their minor league teams. Dan Topping and Del Webb would build the parts, using their construction companies and fill the rosters with talent. They had about 10-12 minor league teams at times…including KC, Denver, Newark, Binghampton and Joplin.
Couple things. First YES had Joba at 89-91, hitting 92 a couple of times. Nowhere near 93-94.
Also, I glanced at this post…
“Hughes
91-95 mph fastball with command & movement
Chamberlain
92-96 mph fastball with average command & straight”
Sorry, buddy, but Phil Hughes has the straightest fastball on the planet. Chamberlain has more movement. Hughes had to invent a cutter last year to get any kind of movement, but nobody has a straighter fastball.