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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


You never know what you’re going to get

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Podcast on Mar 28, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

On a day when he wasn’t pitching and seemed to have answered every possible question about his assignment to the bullpen, Joba Chamberlain found himself surrounded by reporters on Sunday.

“You come to the ballpark, you never know what you’re going to get,” he said.

All of the attention centered on a radio interview with pro scouting director Billy Eppler, who said he did not think it was likely Chamberlain would be competing for a rotation spot next season.

“I can’t look ahead to three years from now or next year,” Chamberlain said. “I have to be thinking about the situation I’m in now and try to embrace it and go with it. If I get caught up in looking at, in five years I want to do this, then I’m not doing my job now.”

Brian Cashman said Eppler’s comments were a matter of opinion, not an official stance of the Yankees. The Yankees, he said, have not had a formal discussion about Chamberlain’s ultimate role beyond the start of this season.

“Billy’s good,” Cashman said. “He’s been an asset, and he’s going to continue to be an asset. But this is also a growth spurt. He’s going to be something special in this game. I’m glad that you guys have access to him. Give an opinion, and although at times I might disagree with his opinion, he makes us better. I want him out there talking to you guys as much as he can. I don’t want him to shy away from his opinion. I support that opinion, although maybe I disagree with a variance of what he said. I want him to speak.”

Here’s Chamberlain.

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And here’s Cashman.

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My own opinion: This incident speaks more to the nature of the Chamberlain situation than to any sort of divide in the organization. It’s great to hear a guy like Eppler give his opinion — and Dave Eiland too — but I tend to believe Cashman when he says nothing has been decided. The Yankees might very well be leaning toward keeping Chamberlain in the pen, but I don’t think anyone will have a set-in-stone answer until the end of the season at the earliest.

———

As an aside, I first came across the Eppler interview when someone emailed to say Eppler was touting my paintball experience on WFAN. If you listen past the Chamberlain bit, you’ll hear him admit to shooting me in the back of the head on Friday. At least he’s an honest scoundrel.

Comments

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141 Responses to “You never know what you’re going to get”

  1. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 28th, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    Oh I definitely believe Cash over anyone else….and Cash, as I said, is not an insecure guy. If he was, he would be annoyed at Eppler and Eiland. No fuss, no muss. This will blow over very quickly, mostly because sports talk shows will be obsessed with the NCAAs

  2. teddy March 28th, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    chad find him and get even

  3. Erin March 28th, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    If you listen past the Chamberlain bit, you’ll hear him admit to shooting me in the back of the head on Friday. At least he’s an honest scoundrel.

    *****************************
    LOL :)

  4. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 28th, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    :) :) :)

    Mama mia! How many times in one article do you want Cashman to say that Joba is a starter who is currently in the pen in order to believe that he means it? How many times do you want him to say that Eppler doesn’t speak for the organization in order to believe that he means it?

    I’m not necessarily a Rhodes Scholar but if you put my thumbs to the fire and asked me to read the article and make a determination about what the DECISION MAKERS are thiking about Joba’s future at least at this point in time, I’d say Joba is still slotted to be a starter at some point in the future. (Which tracks with I’ve been thinking all along.)

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb

  5. Nick in SF in Healdsburg March 28th, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    “The Yankees, he said, have not had a formal discussion about Chamberlain’s ultimate role beyond the start of this season.”

    How formal does it have to be? :mad:

  6. Rick March 28th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    The original problem dates back to when Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy were rushed to the major leagues.
    Under those circumstances, pure logic says they all couldn’t be successful with little minor league time on their resumes.

  7. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 28th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    Nick, they have to be sitting at table set for 30, dressed in tuxedos, with butlers hovering serving a 15 course meal. Naturally, this would take place in the grand ballroom in YS, under a million jigawatt chandelier.

  8. blake March 28th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    I really don’t get all the Eiland hate. The Yankees just won the World Series and the improved pitching was a big reason why.

    Now I know much of that is because they added two really good pitchers but CC is a better pitcher now than he was before he came to NY. How bad a job can the pitching coach really be doing?

  9. m March 28th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    Cash can’t be thrilled that those two let something slip.

    But as a good boss, he’s covering for them.

    Kind of sounds like they agree, but to different degrees.

  10. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 28th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    “You come to the ballpark, you never know what you’re going to get,” he said.

    *********************

    The ballpark is like a box of chocolates :-)

  11. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 28th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Nick in SF in Healdsburg
    March 28th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
    “The Yankees, he said, have not had a formal discussion about Chamberlain’s ultimate role beyond the start of this season.”

    How formal does it have to be?

    ***************

    Black tie optional!

  12. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Is CC really better than before he came to NY?

    He was incredibly good in 2007 and 2008.

  13. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Ken_Rosenthal

    RHP Chad Gaudin, released by #Yankees, reaches agreement with #A’s. #MLB

  14. Nick in SF in Healdsburg March 28th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Or maybe Cash is pulling the strings… psycho head games.

  15. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 28th, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Blake, I don’t see a lot of Eiland hate here (just from trolls), but I see it on NYYfans. They blamed him for CC not striking out a lot of hitters early last season, they blamed him for Phil losing velocity, they think he (and the Yanks) ruined Joba. The thing about CC I can’t explain. Regarding Phil, well – they are obsessed with velocity. Joba? They just want to blame the Yankees for everything and never ascribe anything to Joba because he’s their golden boy. Outside of that board, I’ve not seen any hate for Eiland.

  16. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 28th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    I think Cash is evil.

  17. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    m

    “Cash can’t be thrilled that those two let something slip.

    But as a good boss, he’s covering for them.”

    I don’t think that is necessarily true. Strong leaders don’t mind dissent, especially since most people know the degree to which opinion is split on this issue.

    The important point is that everyone gets behind the decision that Cash makes, and I’m confident that they will.

  18. blake March 28th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    LGY,
    I think he is.. He has developed the change and two-seamer more. He has more weapons IMO.

  19. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    I don’t hate Eiland. I just think there are better pitching coaches.

  20. Erin March 28th, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    Hi Erica!

    So, how was the Cake Boss??!

  21. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 28th, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    mel, how you get agreement out of the article I just linked to is beyond me.

    “Cashman said. “He’s a starter that right now, the way this camp completed, his role on the club would be to help us out of the ‘pen.”

    “What 2011 is going to be like, or 2012, or 2013, it’s hard to fast-forward to it. … If I’m asked the question, I’m not getting to ’11. I’m dealing with ’10. Is it possible he can be in the rotation? I’d say, ‘It’s all possible.’ He’s a starter that’s right now needed out of the ‘pen.”

    ****************************

    ” During the interview with host Evan Roberts, Eppler also said that he would not consider it likely that Chamberlain could compete for a rotation spot in 2011, either.”

    “Eppler was then asked if the question of Chamberlain as a starter could come back to life in 2011, with the right-hander competing for a rotation spot. He responded, “I wouldn’t consider that likely, no.”

  22. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 28th, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    Erin
    March 28th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
    Hi Erica!

    So, how was the Cake Boss??!

    ***********

    The cake was AMAZING!!!!!! Very sweet. But really good. From what I saw some of it was red velvet and others were vanilla layer with chcolocate ganache in the middle (that was the part I ate). It was a big silver slot machine on a roulette table with chips. I got lots of pictures of it on my cell.

    Also, I didn’t get to meet Buddy during the party (huge crowd), but as I was heading to my room later that night, I saw him walking and I went up to him and shook his hand!!!

  23. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    When people in an organization publicly agree on everything, it’s almost a certainty that people are lying.

    This is no big deal.

  24. blake March 28th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    Dave Duncan can’t work for every team.

  25. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 28th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    m

    “Cash can’t be thrilled that those two let something slip.

    But as a good boss, he’s covering for them.”

    I don’t think that is necessarily true. Strong leaders don’t mind dissent, especially since most people know the degree to which opinion is split on this issue.

    The important point is that everyone gets behind the decision that Cash makes, and I’m confident that they will.

    **************************

    Rich, agree.

  26. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! March 28th, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    Anyway, back to the NCAA.

  27. Erin March 28th, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter
    March 28th, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    The cake was AMAZING!!!!!! Very sweet. But really good. From what I saw some of it was red velvet and others were vanilla layer with chcolocate ganache in the middle (that was the part I ate). It was a big silver slot machine on a roulette table with chips. I got lots of pictures of it on my cell.

    Also, I didn’t get to meet Buddy during the party (huge crowd), but as I was heading to my room later that night, I saw him walking and I went up to him and shook his hand!!!

    *****************************
    How fun! The cake sounds delicious. I’m jealous you got to shake his hand! :)

  28. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    I could be wrong but I think Eiland just helped CC because he was having problems with his change in the first half of the year.

    His use of the change has been steady the past 3 years. Actually 2% down from 2008 to 2009.

  29. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 28th, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    Erin-

    The part was also far nicer than I expected it to be. It was almost wedding-like. They served a three course meal with open bar and had a band playing.

    The salad course was some sort of unidentifable lettuce with crabmeat and a lemon cracker.

    Main course was filet mignon, crab-topped lobster tail, stuffed tomato, and asparagus. (I took a picture of dinner too).

    Dessert was cake of course!!

  30. Jerkface March 28th, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    Hughes was not rushed to the majors, I wish people would stop saying that. He suffered injury.

    I don’t think Kennedy was rushed either.

  31. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 28th, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    The Yanks are a very stable organization; I was very happy to read Cash’s later comments on Eppler, who is highly regarded around the game I believe. I’m sure he’ll be an asset to the organization as Cash said.

  32. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    “Dave Duncan can’t work for every team.”

    Given Lester’s remarkable improvement in his command, I think John Farrell must be pretty good.

  33. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 28th, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    Jerkface, Phil was not supposed to be up here in April of 2007; he wasn’t supposed to come up until September. Therefore, it’s easy to say that he was rushed.

  34. Giuseppe Franco March 28th, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    Frankly, I’m sick and tired of the whole Joba debate/story. It really is time to talk about something else.

    Hey, I don’t want to see Joba in the bullpen long term but he’s going to be there this season.

    I just hope he goes out there and does what Hughes did last season.

    Enough of this crap already. Jeez.

  35. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 28th, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    No, I don’t blame the Yankees for Phil’s injuries and, to be fair, after a poor August when he struggled after his injuries, Phil pitched very, very well in September and October. He was 21. Therefore, perhaps time has shown that he wasn’t rushed as he was clearly capable of getting MLB hitters out.

  36. blake March 28th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Rich,

    Dice K is a mess, Beckett is inconsistent and has never fully reached his celing, bucholtz has been slow to develop..etc etc..you can make cases for and against a lot of guys. I’m not saying Eiland is the worlds greatest pitching coach but I think he takes a lot of undue flack.

  37. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    You can’t trust September performances.

  38. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 28th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    Erin-

    I need to go and meet someone for dinner.

    If you want, e-mail me your cell number and I will text you some of my pics from last night

  39. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    Betsy

    Despite the reason for Phil’s promotion, he was ready. He dominated AA in 2006 (2.25 ERA, .91 WHIP). It’s just that the Yankees usually don’t rely on young pitchers unless a problem arises.

  40. Erin March 28th, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    Erica, you’re making me hungry!! Sounds like you had a great time. :)

  41. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    blake

    I thought Matsuzaka has been hurt?

    Beckett has had injuries too.

    Granted, the Phil/Joba injuries have not been Eiland’s fault, but I want to see him develop a bona fide ML starter before I change my opinion.

  42. teddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    how goos was our offense today

  43. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    I think a lot of people have a problem with Eiland because he was supposedly hired based on being “good” with the young guys (Hughes, Joba, Kennedy in particular).

    3 years later whether he is responsible at all or not there has not been much progress overall with those 3.

  44. Jerkface March 28th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    Jerkface, Phil was not supposed to be up here in April of 2007; he wasn’t supposed to come up until September. Therefore, it’s easy to say that he was rushed.

    There is a difference between bringing a guy up before he is ready, ie rushed, and bringing a guy up sooner than t he organization would like. Hughes was in the minors just as long as Pettitte was. The organizations plan was to ease him in with some september starts and look at him for 2008, that didn’t happen, but it does not mean he, as a player who is trying to develop, was rushed.

    Hughes had nothing to prove at AAA, he dominated the minors in his 3 seasons there.

    Rushing is bringing a guy up from A or AA, or a raw talent that needs more seasoning in AAA.

  45. m March 28th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    trisha,

    Haven’t read the article you linked.

    I was going on this:

    I don’t want him to shy away from his opinion. I support that opinion, although maybe I disagree with a variance of what he said.

    Perhaps I missed the real meaning which was I support his right to his opinion.

  46. Nick in SF in Healdsburg March 28th, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    Nardi raves about him.

  47. Jerkface March 28th, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    Kennedy wasn’t rushed either. Established college pitcher with nothing to develop at the minor league level other than confidence, he tore up the minors and got some starts in september and was deemed ready for the majors.

    Thats not being rushed, the Yankees pretty much knew what they were getting with Kennedy, but he got gunshy in the majors. Then you send him back down (which they did!), big whoop. He wasn’t going to improve on anything like that in the minors, being that he completely dominates minor league hitting.

    Chamberlain was rushed because he really needed a full season of starting in the minors to build up his arm strength and continue to work on his mechanics.

  48. teddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    so does have inside tip, i lost a bet with a young children, now i have to see alce in wonderland

  49. JK March 28th, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    Jerkface,

    Hughes was not supposed to be in the majors in 2007. They knew he had to work on developing a 3rd pitch. They were forcing him to throw at least 10% changeups per game @ Scranton, but then the injuries hit the NY rotation and next thing you know the media is calling for Hughes and Cashman folds his original plan.

  50. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 28th, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    Phil has been hurt – how much progress is Eiland expected to have made? He missed most of 2007 (and then you’re basically discounting September, LGY – not fair) and 95% of 2008. When he came back, he dueled AJ to a brilliant draw in Toronto. In 2009, Phil had very good stuff as a starter; sure he was inconsistent, but except for 1 dreadful game, he was pretty good and, in 2 cases, exceptional. Does Eiland get no credit for that? For his development in the pen?

  51. teddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    note pathetic spelling and how to get threw that 2 hour spelling

  52. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 28th, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    The very LAST thing I thought I’d be coming home to was yet another Joba debate! Ugh. I was looking forward to listening to part of the game on my way home from Long Island, but, alas, they were in a rain delay and then a rainout. Oh, well. Poor Andy. But if the rain had to happen to one pitcher on this team, I’m glad it was Andy. He’ll be fine.

    I am so bored with the Joba stuff. Just bored with it. Completely. I do not care anymore. Seriously. I just hope he has a good sense of humor about all of this. Somehow, I think if he went by his given name of Justin none of this would be happening. :?

    Erica -

    I was going to make a comment about baseball being like a box of chocolates – but fortunately, I read the comments before adding my own, and saw you’d already done so. Great minds think alike.

  53. me March 28th, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    Important Update:
    —————–

    The NY Times Baseball section has posted its 68th article this week on Jose Reyes. Please check it out ASAP!

  54. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    I would like to see Nardi as the pitching coach.

  55. crawdaddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    “I don’t think that is necessarily true. Strong leaders don’t mind dissent, especially since most people know the degree to which opinion is split on this issue.

    The important point is that everyone gets behind the decision that Cash makes, and I’m confident that they will.”

    I’ve read direct quotes from Cashman in which he encourages a diverse expression of opinions. It’s one of the reasons why he brought Bill Livesey back and hired Towers so he get different perspectives.

  56. Jerkface March 28th, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    Hughes was not supposed to be in the majors in 2007. They knew he had to work on developing a 3rd pitch. They were forcing him to throw at least 10% changeups per game @ Scranton, but then the injuries hit the NY rotation and next thing you know the media is calling for Hughes and Cashman folds his original plan.

    And yet Hughes came up in 2007 with an above average changeup. which he used quite successfully his second start in the majors. Its unfortunate that after injury he lost his feel for the pitch.

    As I said though, it does not mean he was rushed. Any pitcher could find an excuse to go to the minors and work on something. AJ burnett could throw 10% changeups in AAA.

    Hughes was not rushed developmentally.

  57. Nick in SF in Healdsburg March 28th, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    teddy, my tip is, watch out for those funny those brownies.

  58. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 28th, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    Didn’t the Yankees refuse to let Phil go past 5 or 6 innings in the minors? No wonder he’s had a hard time doing that up here.

  59. me March 28th, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Which of these are you tired of the Most:

    (1) Joba talk
    (2) NY Times article on Jose Reyes
    (3) That 7-second TV commercial for Windows 7

  60. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 28th, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Trisha-

    Your Palm Sunday post from about 2 threads back. We never did anything like that. We tried to make crosses from the palm – emphasis on the “tried.” I never know what to do with the palm we take home. I’m sure I have palm fronds from several Palm Sundays just “hanging out” because I’m afraid to toss it. Yet, I have tossed some, I’m sure. Palm Sunday palms make me anxious. :)

  61. Nick in SF in Healdsburg March 28th, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    And be careful of what you of what you type.

  62. crawdaddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    “I would like to see Nardi as the pitching coach.”

    Then you have another Yankee fan like SJ complaining about him as pitching coach.

  63. blake March 28th, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    Sounds like some want a pitching coach that can solve the mystery of young pitcher growing pains…that’s a tough expectation.

  64. teddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    lol, really need to start being more patience when i type

  65. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 28th, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    me -

    That’s a tough call. I kinda like the Windows 7 commercials they do in French, because I try to translate. :)

    But Joba talk? No more, please.

    And I rarely read articles about the Mets, so I’ve missed the countless Reyes articles.

    :lol:

  66. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    “Then you have another Yankee fan like SJ complaining about him as pitching coach.”

    All right…. I don’t want to upset SJ.

  67. crawdaddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    Looking back, it might have been best if the Yankee organization left both Hughes and Chamberlain in the minors for most of 2007 as starting pitchers. They would’ve missed the playoffs, but they essentially let Torre go anyway and might have been better prepared for 2008 which might have improved their playoff chances that season.

  68. JK March 28th, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Betsy,

    That was at the end of the 2006 season @ Trenton. By July Hughes was on pace to throw 160+ innings. They fired the AA manager after that season for not following their development plans with Hughes & Clippard.

  69. Nick in SF in Healdsburg March 28th, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    ‘cos more Marcus Thames talk is the answer???

  70. crawdaddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    “All right…. I don’t want to upset SJ.”

    It’s not a matter of upsetting SJ just that pitching and hitting coaches are the whipping boys for most team fanbases.

  71. JK March 28th, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    crawdaddy,

    Cash might not have made it along with Torre. He couln’t take that chance.

  72. JK March 28th, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    crawdaddy,

    Cash might not have made it along with Torre. He couldn’t take that chance.

  73. Erin March 28th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    me
    March 28th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
    Which of these are you tired of the Most:

    (1) Joba talk
    (2) NY Times article on Jose Reyes
    (3) That 7-second TV commercial for Windows 7

    *************************
    Definitely 1. No question. :P

  74. crawdaddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    My pipe dream is that Levine leaves the Yankee organization and they promote Cashman to team president then have either Eppler or Oppenheimber replace Cashman as GM.

  75. crawdaddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    “crawdaddy,

    Cash might not have made it along with Torre. He couln’t take that chance.”

    He made it after missing the playoffs in 2008. Hell, I was just talking aloud anyway on something that happened and cannot be changed.

  76. DaSaint007 March 28th, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    Joba needs to just have a good season contributing to the Yankee effort in 2010. His future on THIS team next season, as a SP will be based on the following:

    1. Whether Andy Pettitte is resigned.
    2. Whether Javy Vazquez is resigned or another Free Agent (Cliff Lee, Josh Beckett, Brandon Webb, etc.) is signed.
    3. Phil Hughes performance as this year’s #5 SP.

    Regardless, I’m fine with him in the BP, either temporarily or permanently. Id rather as a SP, as that’s where the value of a good young pitcher best serves the team (economically speaking) rather than in the BP where it cost’s much less for a setup or league-average closer.

  77. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    “It’s not a matter of upsetting SJ just that pitching and hitting coaches are the whipping boys for most team fanbases.”

    As are managers and GMs. Seriously, all I want is for Hughes or Joba (preferably both) to become established starters. It may not be fair to pin it all on Eiland, but as Parcells once said: “You are what your record says you are.” Givnen the reason for his promotion, that is what I view as his record.

    But seriously, I don’t want to upset SJ. :)

  78. chris March 28th, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    The Times love affair with Reyes got to stop. Enough is enough.

  79. DaSaint007 March 28th, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    crawdaddy
    March 28th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
    My pipe dream is that Levine leaves the Yankee organization and they promote Cashman to team president then have either Eppler or Oppenheimber replace Cashman as GM.
    ————————————————————
    Considering Jeter’s comments that he wants to be a MLB Team Owner, I hope the Steinbrenner family gives him a cut of the ownership. I wouldn’t want to see Jete owning the Tampa Bay Rays or something.

  80. SJ44 March 28th, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    It’s not upsetting to me.

    Nardi is just more self promoter than guru.

    Eiland also changed the grip on CC’s two seamer, a grip CC had since he was 17, and made it a more effective pitch for him. Especially against righties.

    The guy is a good pitching coach and has done a good job for the Yankees.

  81. Rick March 28th, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    Dave Eiland didn’t build up high pitch counts. He didn’t shake off catchers. He didn’t throw pitches in the dirt or lose concentration.
    Joba Chamberlain showed some improvement over 2009 but Phil Hughes showed much more.
    No such thing as a No. 5 starter and a No. 5 1/2 starter. Joba went to the bullpen in the postseason for a reason.

  82. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    “Phil has been hurt – how much progress is Eiland expected to have made?”

    I am not saying it was fair. I was just saying why I think “people” do not like Eiland.

    “He missed most of 2007 (and then you’re basically discounting September, LGY – not fair) and 95% of 2008.”

    Any pitcher can look great in September and tons of pitchers do every year. Ace had a 2.57 ERA in Sept. in 08. I do not think you can get a fair read on any guy in Sept and no evaluative decisions should really be based on performance during that month.

    “When he came back, he dueled AJ to a brilliant draw in Toronto. In 2009, Phil had very good stuff as a starter; sure he was inconsistent, but except for 1 dreadful game, he was pretty good and, in 2 cases, exceptional.”

    Fair or not considering the injuries but less than a handful of starts is not exactly very encouraging development.

    “Does Eiland get no credit for that? For his development in the pen?”

    I do not think Eiland should get credit for how he looked in the pen. Hughes is a very good pitcher with exceptional command. That is why he was great in the pen.

  83. SJ44 March 28th, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    If he is what his record is, he won the WS last year and their staff ERA from May 15 on was the best in the AL.

    He has to be doing something right.

  84. crawdaddy March 28th, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    Jeter is not getting a ownership stake in the Yankees. The team’s value is too great for such a scenario.

  85. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    “I wouldn’t want to see Jete owning the Tampa Bay Rays or something.”

    There’s an interesting consequences to Jeter’s ownership talk. Francesa has said that he has been told (take it FWIW) the Yankees are willing to overpay Jeter because he will be the face of the franchise for the next 40 years. He will come to every big event, etc.

    But if Jeter owns another team, he can’t serve in that role, and overpaying him in his next contract would make no sense.

  86. crawdaddy March 28th, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    “If he is what his record is, he won the WS last year and their staff ERA from May 15 on was the best in the AL.

    He has to be doing something right.”

    Eiland just needs a starter or two that he developed that turns into a really good ML starter.

  87. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    “If he is what his record is, he won the WS last year and their staff ERA from May 15 on was the best in the AL.”

    You can look at it that way, but I don’t. The guy was hired, according to Cashman, to shepherd The Big Three’s development as ML starters. To this point, that experiment has not yielded the expected results. That can’t be totally disregarded.

  88. SJ44 March 28th, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    Why shouldn’t he get credit for Hughes last year? He and Cone were the guys who convinced the organization to try it.

    Hughes had never relieved in his life. It was a hugely important decision and it worked out well for everybody.

    If you can’t give him credit for that, perhaps your objectivity on the subject isn’t what it should be to render an objective grade on his performance.

  89. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    It is very hard to judge pitching and hitting coaches.

    Long has made it almost impossible at this point to say he is not a good hitting coach.

    Personally, I have not been thrilled with Eiland. I think my expectations were to high with him coming in because he was talked up as being so good with young guys. It seems though that Mo has actually had a bigger impact on these guys than Eiland has.

    He also IMO lets his guys “out to dry” way too often. His comments and handling of Wang last year really bothered me and that was not the first or last time he has basically just said “well, umm it is not my fault.” Long always makes sure to talk his guys up and back his guys up. He was just gushing about Gardner this morning even though most on here think he sucks.

  90. SJ44 March 28th, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    That’s one job Rich. It’s not his only job or his primary job.

    His primary job is to help the parent team win titles.

    If the Yankees trade young arms for vets like Javy or decide a role for Joba is not as a starter, that’s not on Eiland.

    His job is to work with the staff he has and make them successful. He did that last year.

  91. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    I should be happy that our pitching coach, the guy that was supposed to develop 2 top pitching prospects in frontline starters, has now been instrumental in the decision to put both these guys in the bullpen?

  92. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    “If you can’t give him credit for that, perhaps your objectivity on the subject isn’t what it should be to render an objective grade on his performance.”

    I will give him some credit for Hughes as a reliever, but that credited has to be mitigated by the fact that most really good starting pitching talents can be good relievers.

    So I grant your point and give him some credit, but if you can’t circumscribe the credit you want to offer him given that he has not developed any starters, then maybe I’m not the one who can’t “render an objective grade.”

  93. Giuseppe Franco March 28th, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    Why does Eiland have to supposedly “develop” some young pitcher to be considered a decent pitching coach?

    Does Kevin Long have to “develop” a young hitter before he’s considered a decent hitting instructor?

    This debate regarding Eiland doesn’t make a lot of sense.

    If, for whatever reason, Joba and/or Hughes don’t ever reach their potential as starting pitchers – why is that automatically Eiland’s fault?

    Don’t the players themselves have to be accountable for not reaching their potential, too?

    Would I like Dave Duncan on this coaching staff? Sure I would. But he’s surgically attached to Tony LaRussa and isn’t going to leave the Cards’ coaching staff until LaRussa retires. Hell, Duncan may even decide to retire himself when that happens.

    I don’t really have any issues with Eiland and I don’t think people are being fair to him at all.

    I guess the fans just need someone to blame.

  94. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    “Why does Eiland have to supposedly “develop” some young pitcher to be considered a decent pitching coach”

    Because that was the reason Cash gave for promoting him.

  95. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes March 28th, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    SJ44,

    One could also conejcture that perhaps Eiland so mishandled the develoment of Joba that it made it necessary to turn to a more established arm in Vasquez for the No. 4 starter.

    And seriously, is Eiland a buddy of yours?

  96. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 28th, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    Putting guys in the pen in the ML to help them develop into quality starters.

    All three, Hughes, Joba & IPK were blowing away AAA hitters. They were not challenged.

    The next best thing to do is to have them face ML hitters in a more controlled capacity. IPK had the aneurysm, so I’m not talking about him so much. But years ago, pitchers developed in the majors by way of the pen. Not all of them, but a portion of them. It’s a good idea, I think, especially when you have young pitchers who are simply not put in challenging situations in the minor leagues. Also, by putting them in the pen, you limit their exposure, you get them some success against good hitters. If they end up in the pen as a career, it’s not a terrible thing. But you up they guy’s confidence level in immeasurable ways by putting them in the pen as a developmental aid. This won’t work for all pitchers. But I think for Hughes and Joba, it’s a good thing.

  97. Giuseppe Franco March 28th, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    # Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Because that was the reason Cash gave for promoting him.

    ————-

    So does he get any kudos for guys like Dave Robertson and Hughes in the pen last season?

    Do these pitchers have to be starters?

    I’m not sure I understand the rules here.

  98. jennifer March 28th, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Where is the audio of Eppler ?

  99. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 28th, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    Also -

    Just thinking – Eliand can’t actually go out and pitch for these guys. At some point, his instruction ends and the execution by the pitchers takes over. Sometimes it’s not a smoot transition. Sometimes it is. And you can’t always account for a player’s psyche. A guy who attacks hitters in the minors and in college all of a sudden develops a fear of ML hitters and nibbles. You can TELL a guy not to do that, you can give him pointers, hints, whatever. But you can’t pitch for him and you can’t think for him.

  100. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    “So does he get any kudos for guys like Dave Robertson and Hughes in the pen last season?”

    I did give him credit for Hughes in my 7:09 pm post. I’ll give him credit for Robertson too.

    “Do these pitchers have to be starters?”

    Yes, imo, developing starting pitching in this economic environment spawned by the latest CBA rules is the most important thing an organization, and by implication the pitching coach, can do.

    I think Cash realizes that, and it’s why he is contradicting Eiland and Eppler.

    “I’m not sure I understand the rules here.”

    Again, Cash’s comments set the rules.

  101. CR9 March 28th, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    DUKE MOVES ON!!!

    To the Duke fan on the blog, Lance Thomas played like the BIGGEST LOSER in the first half and the first part of the 2nd half….

    and then he provided the BIGGEST 3 PLAYS of the game, with the 2 off. rebounds, and then his own AND 1!!

  102. SJ44 March 28th, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    Do you really think Eiland made the sole decision in Joba?

    His “rules” came from Nardi and the organization. He was following orders.

    Call me crazy but, when a second year pitching helps his team win a WS and they had the best staff in the league from May 15 on, I’m nit really following the floating rules of his job description.

    Seems to me, folks are just looking for someone to blame because Joba isn’t in the rotation.

  103. crawdaddy March 28th, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    “Why does Eiland have to supposedly “develop” some young pitcher to be considered a decent pitching coach?”

    I don’t have a problem with Eiland, but the Yankees need to develop young pitchers whether as a starter or reliever because the Yankees salary structure needs some kind of relief in that regard. The same applies to Long with perhaps Gardner or another hitting prospect in the near future.

  104. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 28th, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    You’d think the Yankees finished last in 2009…

  105. Corey. March 28th, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    In Cash I trust not a writer.

  106. vinny-b March 28th, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    “My pipe dream is that Levine leaves the Yankee organization and they promote Cashman to team president then have either Eppler or Oppenheimber replace Cashman as GM”
    ——————————————————

    a little known secret, at one time Randy Levine had a small role on a popular TV sitcom:

    http://www.imdb.com/video/cbs/vi453443609/

    (at the 2:12 mark)

  107. Giuseppe Franco March 28th, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    crawdaddy March 28th, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    I don’t have a problem with Eiland, but the Yankees need to develop young pitchers whether as a starter or reliever because the Yankees salary structure needs some kind of relief in that regard. The same applies to Long with perhaps Gardner or another hitting prospect in the near future.

    ——————

    I don’t disagree with the Yanks’ need to develop young players. I just don’t think all the blame for the lack of progress or the decision-making the last couple of years all falls at the feet of Dave Eiland.

    Girardi, Cashman, Nardi, etc, etc. all had a lot to do with the way Hughes, Joba, and Wang have been handled by the organization.

    These things didn’t just happen because Dave Eiland said so or set the agenda for these guys.

    These were organizational decisions.

  108. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    “You’d think the Yankees finished last in 2009…”

    Oh please. Taking your post to it’s logical conclusion, we can only really discuss whether the Yankees are good, really good, or great. Nothing they do can be made better.

  109. crawdaddy March 28th, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    “You’d think the Yankees finished last in 2009…”

    That’s Yankee fans for you. They’re a spoiled bunch with high expectations for their players and management personnel.

  110. CR9 March 28th, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    It’s rather fun to go for the Yankees of a sport. Not that they have the championships, but Duke exhibit the same class as the Yankees do.

    As Dick Vitale just said, he cannot understand the anti feeling against a team like Duke or the Yankees. And it comes down to one word and it begins with J and it ends with S, and “you can fill in the rest of the letters”!!!!

  111. JK March 28th, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    The Joba rules were good until the unexpected happened which was Wang going down again.

    Does Eiland get no credit for Robertson, Aceves, Coke & Hughes in the pen last year?

    He is a good pitching coach.

  112. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    “That’s Yankee fans for you. They’re a spoiled bunch with high expectations for their players and management personnel.”

    I don’t think anyone who rooted for Horace Clarke, Jerry Kenney, and Danny Cater is a spoiled Yankee fan.

  113. m March 28th, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    Eiland’s not perfect, but he hasn’t done anything to get fired. Have heard zero whispers of anything even remotely negative associated with his name.

  114. Tom in N.J. March 28th, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    jumpsuits!

  115. Corey. March 28th, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    How is Eiland to blame for Joba exactly?

  116. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Like I said it is hard to judge pitching coaches unless they are really undeniably good.

    Either side of the debate does not really have much a leg to stand on. But since he was promoted to develop Hughes, Joba, Kennedy I am going to err on the side of not being a great pitching coach.

    Also, like I said my biggest problem is that he leaves his guys out to dry. That is inexcusable in my book from a coach.

  117. SJ44 March 28th, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    The owner states the annual goal of the team is to “win the World Series”.

    Seems to me that’s the priority.

    That makes it a little tough to expect them to be in developmental mode.

  118. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    Winning the WS is not the hitting coach or pitching coach’s job. That is not what they are paid to do. You can win the WS and your pitching coach could have done some great things or he could have been horrible all year.

    Eiland does not have enough control over 25 great players, some HOF, to be immune from criticism for the Yankees winning the WS.

    If that is the logic then why did Kevin Long spend this winter helping Swisher, Granderson, etc. They won the WS last year. What is he doing helping to improve the offense?

  119. SJ44 March 28th, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    That wasn’t his sole reason for his promotion.

    Just because you keep saying it doesn’t make it true.

    He has young guys contributing to the teams success and he has helped the veteran guys. What more do you want?

    You know how you judge him? Whether he stays employed since the Yankees have never had a problem firing pitching coaches over the past 30+ years.

  120. m March 28th, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    I think Eiland’s primary job was to help all the pitchers. Including the ones not named Joba, Hughes, or Ian.

    Doh! Did I talk about Joba & Hughes in the same post?

  121. SJ44 March 28th, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    LGY,

    you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Their job IS to win at the ML level. If not, they get canned.

    If you are on staff, you are paid to win, period.

    You should probably learn what they are paid to do and the expectations placed on them before commenting further.

  122. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 28th, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    I agree with SJ – Eiland takes way too much grief. Does he get some credit for helping Phil with his change? If AJ has success this year with the change (which I think he will), doesn’t he get credit for that?

  123. SJ44 March 28th, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    Eilands job is to make the entire staff better so they win titles. It’s not just to develop young pitching.

    That’s what is done at the minor league levels.

  124. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    I could not disagree more.

    Eiland could have a really bad season/s. If the Yankees win the WS he does not and should not get a pass.

    His job is to coach the pitching staff. Not to win baseball games. That is Girardi’s job.

  125. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    Ok, then lets talk about the whole staff.

    CC: He did a good job with CC.

    AJ: Did not pitch to his capabilities and took a step back from 08 to 09.

    Wang: Had a disastrous time with Wang. Did not recognize he was not able to pitch at the beginning of 09 which is fairly astonishing because his mechanics were noticeably different. Not to mention basically saying it is not my fault and leaving Wang to the media wolves.

    Joba: Terrible for much of last year. With Girardi decided how to limit his innings and we all know the “plan” was terrible.

    Pettitte: Do not really know anything here.

    BP: great in the 2nd half, but it seems Mo has a greater influence on these guys than Eiland considering they often say how great a coach Mo is and to be around him.

  126. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 28th, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Rich in NJ -

    Your response to me was a bit harsh, I think.

    The thing of it is, I have also had the thought that Eiland was specifically brought up to oversee the development of the “Three Caballeros” or whatever it was they were called (Generation Trey?).

    But unlike a lot of people, I have learned to go with the flow. The best laid plans, and all.

    There’s only so much a coach can do, because ultimately, he can’t go out and do the job and he can’t really get into the head of the players. Also, it does seem that the transition from minors to majors is such that you never really know how a particular player is going to react in terms of performance.

    But I wasn’t here all day and I came back and read the threads, and when you do it like that, it’s quite an experience, let me tell you. The overall feeling I got was, how in the heck have the Yankees managed to accomplish anything at all, much less a World Championship, with such poor coaching, etc., etc.

    And yes, if you were all of a sudden plunked down into the middle of this blog, one would think the Yankees hadn’t won in 2009 based on most of the posts today and yesterday.

    Playing catch-up isn’t pretty.

  127. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 28th, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    AJ had a good year even if he disappointed you. Eiland can’t pitch for these guys……….and blaming him for Joba is totally unfair.

  128. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 28th, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    LOL and then you don’t even give him credit for the pen’s success; you shift it all to Mo. So Eiland gets none of the credit and all of the blame. That’s some system.

  129. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    Disregard my last post. I did not want to even get into judging Eiland’s credentials and do not even really want to continue the conversation. It is very hard to judge these guys either way. It is very difficult to say here who is right unless you stand out like Long, so the discussion is not very worthwhile. I myself am not sold on whether he is good or bad.

    I will say this one more time though. I do not like how Eiland deals with his players in the media. That is my problem with him and a problem I would want to discuss further.

  130. SJ44 March 28th, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    Your grading system is hysterical.

    Eiland is to blame for Wang? Is this comedy.

    Clearly, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    From May 15 on, the pitching staff led the AL in ERA.

    By the second half they were the best staff in the league and won the WS with a three man rotation HE helped design by mixing in more rest in September for the guys carrying the load.

    Funny how that gets left out of your analysis. Especially since it’s part of the guy’s job.

  131. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    “Eiland is to blame for Wang? Is this comedy.”

    ————————-

    Eiland is not to blame for Wang. I never said he was. But he did a very poor job with Wang last year. He should have noticed that Wang was not ready to pitch as he clearly was not.

  132. Jerkface March 28th, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    So Nardi shoots his mouth, he is just a poseur that wants attention.

    Eiland shoots his mouth, and he is responsible for the Yankees winning the WS.

    I’d say Eiland should deserve some credit, but I think the Yankees would probably be fine with a different pitching coach. I have not been impressed with Eiland’s public media statements, and his pitching coachability is suspect.

    I guess he gets credit for CC moving to a 1seam change

  133. becca March 28th, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Eiland/the Yankees in general did a not-too-great job with Wang’s rehab and whatnot, though it’s hard to tell who was in charge of what. On the other hand, Wang wouldn’t have ever been what he was in his best years if they didn’t help him discover and utilize that sinker, so it’s kind of a wash.

  134. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    “Funny how that gets left out of your analysis. Especially since it’s part of the guy’s job.”

    ———————–

    The staff was led by CC and Andy. I gave him credit for CC, but Andy we have no idea about. AJ took a step back last year. I do not think he is a terrible pitching coach. But, he has not done much yet to deserve the praise that Long gets.

  135. becca March 28th, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    And yeah, it’s silly to say “well the bullpen got really good but it was all because of Mo.” FWIW I don’t think Eiland is a great pitching coach, either, but I do not pretend to be an expert.

  136. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    I did not say it was because of Mo. Really it was because they had the best closer and set up man in baseball pitching there.

    My point was is that these guys have no trouble praising Mo as a “coach” but they do not say much at all about Eiland.

  137. Jerkface March 28th, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    Anecdotally, Kevin Long is a master of breaking down swings and identifying problems.

    Eiland’s succession to pitching coach was removing Guidry, who was a feel guy, with someone that would focus more on mechanics and normal pitching coach stuff and also had a pre-existing relationship with the young pitchers.

  138. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 28th, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    “So Nardi shoots his mouth, he is just a poseur that wants attention.

    Eiland shoots his mouth, and he is responsible for the Yankees winning the WS.”

    It does seem like there is a serious double standard here.

  139. ortforshort March 28th, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    The Chamberlain problem can be described in two words: Brian Cashman. Cashman, in his infinite lack of wisdom, decided to take a lights out relief ace reminiscent of Hall of Famer Goose Gossage and try to make him something else. Why are the ignorant ones always the most arrogant? Now, of course, everyone is blaming Chamberlain. His work ethic, his attitude, blah, blah, blah. No one is pointing the finger at the real culprit for this fiasco – except me, of course.

  140. ortforshort March 28th, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    Whose moronic idea was it to make Chamberlain, a lights out reliever, a starter in the first place. Now everyone’s blaming Chamberlain, Eiland, Contreras, the janitor for this idiotic idea not working out. Let’s start at the top with the baseball buffoon who got the brilliant idea of taking a success and deciding, with all of the arrogance that pure ignorance brings, into a disaster – Cashman

  141. The Big City of Dreams March 29th, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    ^^^^^^ joba was always a starter it wasn’t like he was a reliever turned started and please relax with joba being lights out. Don’t point to 2007 as evidence that is not how a real reliever is used

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