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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Today in The Journal News

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 29, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Just when it seemed Joba Chamberlain had answered every question about his move to the bullpen, the old debate fired up against on Sunday and became the center of attention in Yankees camp.

The story also has some notes on Andy Pettitte’s rain-filled spring training, Johnny Damon’s return to George M. Steinbrenner Field and an actor in pinstripes.

Speaking of Damon, there are some more pictures of his return to Tampa in this online gallery.

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345 Responses to “Today in The Journal News”

  1. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 29th, 2010 at 8:27 am

    I think this sums it up pretty well; Eppler was probably just too honest as he’s inexperienced at giving these types of interviews……..and Eiland probably too firm. I know Cashman publicly supported Eppler, but privately, you think he wanted this firestorm again? I’m not even sure why it’s only Eppler getting the attention when Eiland said the same thing.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....ore-j.html

  2. Frank March 29th, 2010 at 8:31 am

    “I don’t want (Eppler) to shy away from his opinion,” Cashman said. “I support that opinion, although maybe I disagree with a variance of what he said. I want him to speak.”

    Kind of a non-denial denial from Cashman.

  3. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 29th, 2010 at 8:32 am

    Here’s more. I think it’s clear that the Yankees do not want to yank Joba in and out of the rotation this year; I also think that if a SP goes down for an extended period, we will see Joba.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....fqZFejmBaP

  4. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 29th, 2010 at 8:34 am

    Overall, I don’t think this is a big deal – it’s something to talk about and then we’ll move on.

  5. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 29th, 2010 at 8:38 am

    Betsy -

    I only hope we’ll move on. :) This is a topic that seems to have an extended shelf life. :?

  6. Frank March 29th, 2010 at 8:41 am

    Agreed, it’s not a big deal. Not sure on your thought that Chamberlain enters the rotation if someone goes down long term. Certainly they’ve made their intent clear on what happens in the case of spot starts. Part me thinks that if Chamberlain thrives in whatever bullpen role he’s earned, he’ll be there (in the pen) for good.

  7. Betsy - Romine wasn't built in a day March 29th, 2010 at 8:42 am

    Doreen, I hope so. If we’re going to talk about Joba and Phil, I would hope it would be in discussions like the one we had a few nights ago. Right now, Joba is in the pen and Phil is in the rotation. The Yankees didn’t just go eeney-meeny miny mo with this decision; they made the decision after long and careful consideration. Phil was served well by a stint in the pen and I think so will Joba; I do not believe Cashman has given up on him as a starter. He liked what he saw from Phil a lot; that’s what people have to remember. Joba didn’t lose the job by pitching poorly (forget the first two starts); Phil won it and Phil is as big a part of the team’s future as Joba. I think we should ALL be happy that competition brought out the very best in both kids. That will stand them in good stead for the future.

  8. Erin March 29th, 2010 at 8:47 am

    Betsy – Romine wasn’t built in a day
    March 29th, 2010 at 8:34 am
    Overall, I don’t think this is a big deal – it’s something to talk about and then we’ll move on.

    ***********************
    Believe me, I’ve already moved on. ;)

  9. Doreen - 2010 GTLU March 29th, 2010 at 8:48 am

    I tend to think that considering a lot of pitchers the Yankees might have had their eye on to explore as FAs are extending with their current teams, that the Yankees would be foolish to reject outright the idea of Joba in the rotation in 2011. I say that knowing full well that I don’t have all the pieces to the puzzle and never will. :)

    So, since today’s game is a night game, who’s up for a Spring Training edition of Guess The Line Up? I’ll start taking entries now until the official lineup is posted. Only a few days until the Real Deal! Yay. :)

  10. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 29th, 2010 at 8:49 am

    SJ,

    I genuinely want to know why you think Eiland is a good pitching coach. Like I have said, these guys are very hard to judge and while I am not thrilled with Eiland, I am not committed to saying he is bad.

    Winning the WS or team ERA is not an accurate read on Eiland’s job. There are too many flaws in that logic. Under that theory Eiland gets credit for Jeter and Cano’s greatly improved defense which saved the Yankees a ton of runs and in turn was a big help to team ERA.

  11. SJ44 March 29th, 2010 at 8:50 am

    I think it’s great guys are allowed to speak their minds. It’s not Nazi Germany.

    If Cash was upset, these comments would have ended on Thursday, when Eiland first spoke on the subject.

    Without namecalling or the childish fits some have had since the decision has been made public, the Yankees aren’t stressed by this.

    As early as January the consensus was that they were going to put Joba in the pen this year. I posted about it when I heard only to get ripped by the “Joba Must Start” crowd.

    At this point, we now see if the Yankees belief (they can get Joba back to what he was working out of the pen) will be proven correct.

    To declare the move a “failure” before the season even starts makes little sense to me.

    2011? How about we get thru 2010 first and see what happens?

  12. SJ44 March 29th, 2010 at 8:56 am

    I’ve told you time and time again why I think he’s good pitching coach.

    He worked with veterans such as CC and Andy very well last year. Turning both their seasons around by making adjustments with them.

    He got kids like Hughes and Robertson into the mix.

    Joba took a step back last year yet still contributed to the team.

    The overall pitching staff improved throughout the season. That’s his job.

    They won the WS and pitching was a big reason why.

    Having the respect of veterans to accept trying new things as well as mixing in young stems, and winning while doing so, is impressive.

    Given those results in only his second year on the job, my question is, how do folks NOT think he’s a good pitching coach?

  13. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy March 29th, 2010 at 8:56 am

    “At this point, we now see if the Yankees belief (they can get Joba back to what he was working out of the pen) will be proven correct.”

    If that is the plan it has been contradicted by 2 higher ups in the Yankee organization. Joba’s own PC said there are no plans to reevaluate him as a starter at the end of the year.

  14. SJ44 March 29th, 2010 at 9:03 am

    I wouldn’t get too caught up in March 2010 quotes re: 2011.

    How about we see how Joba does in 2010 before worrying about 2011?

  15. Steve March 29th, 2010 at 9:04 am

    It’s amazing how some fans get caught up in “cutsie” names like Joba and Johnny and let the name persona get in the way of a player’s flaws.
    This is baseball – not a personality contest.

  16. William Buckner March 29th, 2010 at 9:05 am

    Two major things will decide Joba’s future, IMO.

    1. Do the Yankees sign another FA starter?
    2. Does Andy retire at years end.

    Really a 3rd could emerge, does Joba say that he wants to remain in the pen, due to success or comfort.

  17. SJ44 March 29th, 2010 at 9:10 am

    Or 4: he’s actually better in the pen than he is as a starter.

    Right now though, the key is for him to get back to being the pitcher he was a few years ago.

    Rightly or wrongly, the team believes that can be accomplished working out of the bullpen.

  18. crawdaddy March 29th, 2010 at 9:11 am

    “How about we see how Joba does in 2010 before worrying about 2011?”

    That’s why Yankee fans need to chill about those comments. A lot can happen between now and 2011. Let’s get through this season first before being concern about the pitching staff’s makeup in 2011.

  19. MTU (aka GBURL) March 29th, 2010 at 9:11 am

    Here’s what I’m hoping for :

    1 That PH kicks a-s as a starter this season.

    2 That JC finds his groove again, and gets another chance to
    compete for a spot as a SP.

    3 That GGBG does well in the OF.

    4 That Randy Winn bounces back.

    5 That Cano has a breakout season at #5.

    6 That all our key players stay healthy.

    7 That whatever the Yankees decide on SP turns out to be a good decision.

    8 That all of what I said above turns out to be true. :)

  20. blake March 29th, 2010 at 9:13 am

    Test post. I can’t slip anything past the filter this morning…maybe I’ve been banned.

  21. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Never could understand what more it is that Cano has to do in his career to be considered as having “broken out”.

  22. RayVT March 29th, 2010 at 9:16 am

    In these days of uncertainty, jobs, economy, savings, mortgages, housing, wars, etc, it seems folks want a definitive “YES” or “NO” for almost everything. Joba & Phil fans are no different.

    The problem is this situation is not static, but it is clearly dynamic. So many things have a significant influence to this situation. Here is a brief list of possibilities.

    1. Mo gets hurt & Joba is named the heir apparent closer.
    2. 1 or more of Andy/AJ/CC/Javier/Phil gets hurt & Joba becomes the #4 or #5 SP.
    3. Yanks sign Lee or someone else next year & Javier or Andy too. Joba could stay in bullpen.
    4. Yanks sign only 1 of Andy/Javier/FA SP like Lee & Joba becomes #5 SP.
    5. Phil or someone else falters badly as a SP in 2010 & gets replaced by Joba.
    6. Something else happens!

    The truth is no one knows what tomorrow will bring, no less 2011.

  23. Frank March 29th, 2010 at 9:16 am

    “Joba didn’t lose the job by pitching poorly (forget the first two starts); Phil won it…”

    I’d put this way, Joba didn’t lose the job by pitching poorly in Spring Training. However, he may have lost it by pitching pretty poorly for most of 2009. As Cashman suggested, the organization headed into this “competition” with some pre-conceived notions. IMO, one of those was that the role of #5 starter was Hughes’ to lose. Cashman always plays it close to the vest, but does anyone else think it’s telling that Hughes, who pitched the vast majority of ’09 out of the pen was the preferred candidate ahead the guy who made 30 starts? If Joba pitched closer to the league average in ’09 and was a little more receptive to his catcher’s and coaches, does anyone believe he wouldn’t be a starter today? To take it a step further, if he pitched well enough as a starter last year to lead the Yankees to believe he was in the role he was meant for, would they have gone out and gotten Vazquez?

  24. MTU (aka GBURL) March 29th, 2010 at 9:17 am

    GB-

    All I meant about Robbie is that many feel he needs to show what he can do as great protection for A-Rod out of the 5 hole.

    And that his numbers in “clutch” situations are what many people hope they will be. :)

  25. blake March 29th, 2010 at 9:19 am

    success…anyway. There is no magic potion for curing young pitchers of their growing pains. Tim Lincecums are very very rare. Most guys struggle for awhile when they first come up. Expecting a pitching coach to come in and prevent that is a bit much I think. The Yankees won the WS last year and his primary job is to help in that cause. Just I don’t get all the hand wringing over Eiland.

  26. crawdaddy March 29th, 2010 at 9:19 am

    Buster Olney’ AL East Predictions:

    AL East
    1. New York Yankees
    2. Boston Red Sox (wild card)
    3. Tampa Bay Rays
    4. Baltimore Orioles
    5. Toronto Blue Jays

    Thoughts: For most of the spring, I thought I’d pick the Rays to win the East. The Red Sox also have made tremendous additions. Eventually there will be a year in which the Yankees’ age will manifest itself; maybe that will be this year. But the Yankees have so much talent, and Curtis Granderson, Nick Johnson and Javier Vazquez are all excellent additions. If holes emerge, we know that the Yankees and Red Sox will have the resources to fill them. For the Rays, that is not the case.

  27. RayVT March 29th, 2010 at 9:20 am

    GB

    LOL! It appears folks want Cano to bat .350, hit 40 HRs & 100+ RBIs. Plus bat .400 wit runners in scoring position. Not to mention win a gold glove & have an OBP of .450.

  28. Erin March 29th, 2010 at 9:22 am

    GreenBeret7
    March 29th, 2010 at 9:14 am
    Never could understand what more it is that Cano has to do in his career to be considered as having “broken out”.

    *******************************
    My thoughts exactly :)

  29. blake March 29th, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Cano has already broken out in the sense that he’s one of the best 2B in baseball but some (me included) think this may be the year he takes the leap to an elite level overall. He has the talent to be a yearly MVP candidate. Is this the year that becomes reality? I think it could be..

  30. pat March 29th, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Last year Pete had a blog time-out on anyone discussing anything about Alex.

    I vote we do it again but with Joba this time.

  31. MTU (aka GBURL) March 29th, 2010 at 9:24 am

    And for the record.

    I always have been and probably always will be a HUGE Cano fan and supporter.

    There. I got that out of the way !

  32. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2010 at 9:26 am

    Whether Cano drives in runs from first base or 2nd base really makes little difference. He still drives in runs from a spot in the batting order that doesn’t always leave a lot of runners out there and with very little protection behind him. He’s driving in 88 runs a year based on 162 games played. Not many, if any, #7 hitters are doing better than that.

  33. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 29th, 2010 at 9:26 am

    SJ, you’re right. I guess I stressed out about the comments more than Cash did, lol. SJ, the only thing I would say about Joba to the pen is that if Phil didn’t look that good in ST, wouldn’t Joba have been in the rotation?

    Frank, I think if Joba had pitched solidly (not great) in 2009, we wouldn’t have Vasquez, and Phil would be in the rotation without the need of a competition. I personally still don’t necessarily believe Phil was the preferred #5 in 2010 coming into ST (what proof is there that this was the case) unless they were SOOOO down on Joba’s performance. Remember – they wanted Phil to work on his changeup. There was no guarantee he was going to have a decent one in camp, let alone one that might become a plus pitch.

  34. SJ44 March 29th, 2010 at 9:27 am

    Pat,

    Well said.

  35. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 29th, 2010 at 9:27 am

    Well, I think Eiland’s a good pitching coach so we have 2 people here that think that, lol.

  36. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2010 at 9:28 am

    I wish Olney had picked the Yankees for last.

    As for the breakout question, it’s easy: He needs to hit with RISP, IOW, a legitimate run producing threat.

    That takes him from very good to elite.

  37. blake March 29th, 2010 at 9:29 am

    The thing that would worry me a bit as a Sox fan would be how much they are relying on those top 3 starters. I don’t like the back end of their rotation and offensively I don’t see them hitting their way back into nearly as many games as they have in the past. If Beckett, Lester, and Lackey stay healthy then they should be tough but they aren’t as balanced as they have been and teams are going to steal them blind this year.

  38. Erin March 29th, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
    March 29th, 2010 at 9:27 am
    Well, I think Eiland’s a good pitching coach so we have 2 people here that think that, lol.

    ***************************
    Make that 3. :)

  39. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2010 at 9:33 am

    Much like Rodriguez, a lot of people will not be that accepting of Cano. He’ll never be considered “elite” because he’s never going to walk that much. Some of the more stupid remarks that I’ve read is that if he didn’t hit for such a high average, his OBP would be terrible. Well, no bull. I guess you could say that about any player. He produces runs. He’s like others…he has flaws in his game.

    Believe it or not, I even read that Jeter has flaws in his game, like too many strikeouts for a singles and doubles hitter, hits into too many double plays and is simetimes inconsistant on defense.

  40. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2010 at 9:33 am

    blake

    You’re a Sox fan?

    To me the big RS question is whether Ortiz is the

    Pre AS: .222 .317 .416 .733

    or

    Post AS: .258 .350 .516 .866

    version.

  41. SJ44 March 29th, 2010 at 9:33 am

    Betsy,

    I like an organization that allows it’s people to express their opinions.

    What’s funny to me is Mariano has said the same thing Eiland and Eppler said an no venom was directed his way.

    The fact is, just about every team in baseball sees Joba as more a future closer than future #1 starter.

    Can everybody be wrong? Sure they can.

    However, to dismiss all of out of hand isn’t smart.

    My hope for Joba is that he embraces this role and succeeds well enough to put himself back into the mix for a future role in the rotation.

    Whatever side of the fence one sits on this debate, I think we can all agree on one thing…..we want to see Joba back to being the pitcher he once was.

  42. ditmars1929 March 29th, 2010 at 9:33 am

    Wow, crawdaddy, Buster daring to really to go out on a limb there. I don’t think I’ve seen anything from anybody that doesn’t predict the AL East in that same order. I do, however, wish the Rays much success. It’s nice to see a team with so many youngsters succeed. I also feel sorry for my friends in Baltimore. They’re die hard fans, go to 30 games a year to support the team, and they deserve so much more.

  43. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter March 29th, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Pitching coach has got to be one of the most thankless jobs in the game

    If your staff stinks, you get fired
    If the staff does great, you just have really good pitchers and no one ever gives you the credit

  44. blake March 29th, 2010 at 9:36 am

    Rich, no those are things that would concern me if I were a sox fan which clearly I’m not.

  45. crawdaddy March 29th, 2010 at 9:37 am

    “Wow, crawdaddy, Buster daring to really to go out on a limb there.”

    Actually, it was too long ago that I heard Olney say he thought the Rays would win the division and that the Red Sox will win the WC.

  46. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Jeter is the The Clutch™.

    I hear ya, on Cano, but given the way the MSM focuses on counting stat milestones, if he puts up 100 RBIs (85 last season, so very doable) with some very notable hits mixed, I think he’ll begin to get his props, especially if he follows it up with an impressive postseason.

  47. upstate kate March 29th, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Doreen:

    SS Jeter
    DH Johnson
    1B Tex
    3B Arod
    2B Robbie
    C Cervelli
    LF Thames
    CF Winn
    RF Weber

    thanks
    RF

  48. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2010 at 9:38 am

    blake

    You owe me a beer!

  49. William Buckner March 29th, 2010 at 9:39 am

    “Eventually there will be a year in which the Yankees’ age will manifest itself; maybe that will be this year.”

    You know, I’ve heard this argument for about 15 years regarding the Yankees. Is it even valid? To me it seems they have a lot of key contributors that are under 30. Even more 34 and under.

    And rearly are the best teams made up from youth, it’s always a mix.

  50. Giuseppe Franco March 29th, 2010 at 9:40 am

    SJ,

    Mo expressed last season that he wanted Hughes to remain in the pen. It shouldn’t surprise anyone that the closer of a baseball team wants someone who is capable of being dominant in front of him.

    Also, Mo, Jeter, and the rest of these guys are in “win now” mode. They don’t really care what the organization does with Joba’s or Hughes’ long term roles because they won’t be part of most of it.

  51. blake March 29th, 2010 at 9:40 am

    Rich,
    Not sure why, but ok! :)

  52. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 29th, 2010 at 9:43 am

    SJ, that’s true about Mo, lol.

    I want Joba to get back to being who he was because I find it tragic (in a sports way ONLY) when athletes are prevented from living up to their potential. These guys (and gals) have one shot to get it right – and their shelf lives are limited. If Joba can be a great starter, I want him there. If he’s best served out of the pen, I want him there. I would prefer him to be a great starter because you can’t have too many of those, but whatever he’s meant to do with his career, that’s where I want him. The Yanks have two special young talents on their hands and let’s just be thankful for that.

  53. randy l. March 29th, 2010 at 9:43 am

    i think eiland is a professional pitching coach.

    eiland doesn’t make the final developmental decisions about pitchers.

    brian cashman does.

    if there is anyone to blame or give credit to about pitching development or pitching in general the buck stops with cashman.

    that said,this particular firestorm with joba may be to a large degree on joba . he’s not exactly put being in great shape in the forefront of his mind. i don’t care what anyone says about natural body type, joba did not come into spring training in great shape.

    that tells me a lot about joba and his inner drive to excel. some people don’t handle success well. i’m sure joba worked incredibly hard to get the the yankees the first time, but i haven’t seen signs of him working really hard with the yankees.

    he appears to be satisfied with what comes natural. you can lead a horse to water , but you can’t make him drink. that’s joba. he seems perfectly happy to gravitate back to the bullpen as a back up landing spot.

    he’s still in the majors . he’ll still has a chance still be a star. and he can do it with his natural talent and doesn’t have to go out of his way to work too hard.

    the best thing about pitching every other day is it’s a natural workout. the season itself is what gets a pitcher like joba in shape because he sure doesn’t do it in the off season.
    this alone may be why sending joba to the bullpen is the right decision.

  54. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Erica – always OPPC – Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter
    March 29th, 2010 at 9:34 am
    Pitching coach has got to be one of the most thankless jobs in the game

    If your staff stinks, you get fired
    If the staff does great, you just have really good pitchers and no one ever gives you the credit

    ————————————————————

    Not much different than being a manager of the Yankees. “He’s a push button manager.”…”Why shouldn’t he win? He’s got an all-Star at every position.”…. “Look at that payroll. I could win with that, too.”.

    Hitting coaches get the same treatment.

    I was never a fan of Eiland, but, I’m not of the “Fire him now” brigade. My preference would have been Gil Patterson, but, as usual, they didn’t get back to me for my input.

  55. Comet March 29th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Repost:

    Comet
    March 29th, 2010 at 7:53 am
    “Fred McGriff for Dale Murray.
    Doug Drabek for Rick Rhoden.
    Willie McGee for Bob Sykes.”
    I just couldn’t believe the Doug Drabek for Rick Rhoden deal. Rhoden was on the decline. What an awful deal!!! So was the Ken Phelphs for Jay Buhner deal. Just really bad short term thinking, none more so than Phelphs for Buhner.

  56. pat March 29th, 2010 at 9:46 am

    If you don’t have YES or didn’t catch the season preview yesterday, the interviews with Joe Girardi, Derek, Alex and Curtis as well as the analyst discussion is up on the YES website if you want to see it.

  57. SJ44 March 29th, 2010 at 9:51 am

    GF,

    they care more than you think.

    He didn’t say he wanted Hughes to stay in the bullpen for his career. He said he wanted him to say in the pen for the season.

    Joba? Different story. He, as do others, believe he’s best suited to stay in the pen.

  58. SJ44 March 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am

    Randy,

    As usual, very well said.

    Thing is, he came into camp in much better shape than he did last year. It’s all relative of course.

    I’m excited to see what he does with this assignment.

    He’s still only 24 years old. I think folks often forget that. Still VERY young to write him off because he’s going to the pen.

  59. Giuseppe Franco March 29th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    SJ,

    Joba’s not going to be the same pitcher in the pen that these people think, mediots included. These people think he’s going to be the same pitcher he was in 2007. He’s just not and they are going to be disappointed.

    His role is not necessarily the cause of his struggles. I want to see this guy in the rotation without the handcuffs and his mechanics ironed out.

    Hopefully, they will let him do that in 2011 after a huge year in the pen. I just don’t know if it’s going to happen.

  60. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 29th, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Randy, your comment about perhaps Joba being satisfied with getting along on natural ability and content to be in the pen if starting doesnt work out is interesting. I’m not a fan of players like this to be honest. I liken it to a student who is bright, but doesn’t work hard; IMO, that student is none too bright because he’s failing to take advantage of his natural gifts. I told my nephew (who IS very bright) before he went off to college that he needs to remember that he will now be in a larger pool of students (much larger than high school), some of whom will be as bright or brighter than he is. I just wanted to emphasize to him that if he wants to do as well as he did before, he’s going to have to put in the work. Joba is now in an elite class of athletes; major leaguers are the best baseball players in the world. He can do well just on natural ability alone, but others will surpass him (some with lesser talent) simply because they work harder than he does. I hope this is not the story of his career, but I guess that story hasn’t been written yet.

  61. William Buckner March 29th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    If Joba does a successful transition to pen and stays there, he is still a very valuable member of the team.

    Look at what Papelbon has done for the RS overall pen makeup.

  62. Patrick from CT March 29th, 2010 at 10:05 am

    I have been one to say Joba should start until he proves that he’s not a starter. A starter is more important than be an 8th inning relief pitcher. Yes, he struggled in 2009, but I don’t believe Joba has shown that he’s not a starter. Joba did loose the #5 spot to Phil for 2010 and that’s OK. I think they should give him another shot in 2011 unless Mo does not come back.

  63. William Buckner March 29th, 2010 at 10:05 am

    “Joba’s not going to be the same pitcher in the pen that these people think, mediots included.”

    How do you know that? Why can’t he be?

  64. SJ44 March 29th, 2010 at 10:07 am

    GF,

    I agree, the role is not the issue.

    I do think however, getting his fastball and slider back to elite levels, which has to happen, can be accomplished out of the bullpen.

    We have seen some positive signs of that already this spring. Just have to see how it shakes out once the season begins.

  65. Betsy -Romine wasn't built in a day March 29th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    The thing is, SJ, players have no clue as to how to develop pitching. I know what Mo said about Joba; I don’t recall what he said about Phil. I know that Coney said that Phil should remain a reliever, which to me was asinine (and I adore Coney). As much as I worship Mo, I think it’s silly to give up on Joba as a starting pitcher at age 24 unless he shows repeatedly that he can’t get it done.

  66. charlestonchew March 29th, 2010 at 10:12 am

    I’m going to call it: Baltimore 3rd place.

  67. Jerkface March 29th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    What’s funny to me is Mariano has said the same thing Eiland and Eppler said an no venom was directed his way.

    Eiland and Eppler are in positions to actually affect Joba chamberlain’s career, Mariano is not. Players can say whatever they want, Cashman doesn’t bring Mariano into the meeting for Joba.

    And making Joba a reliever doesn’t make sense, when you consider the amount of chances lesser starters got in NY. It just so happens Joba has(had?) good stuff that plays anywhere.

    He should get the same consideration that guys like Rasner and Karstens got.

  68. MaineYankee March 29th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Betsy -Romine wasn’t built in a day
    March 29th, 2010 at 10:08 am
    The thing is, SJ, players have no clue as to how to develop pitching. I know what Mo said about Joba; I don’t recall what he said about Phil. I know that Coney said that Phil should remain a reliever, which to me was asinine (and I adore Coney). As much as I worship Mo, I think it’s silly to give up on Joba as a starting pitcher at age 24 unless he shows repeatedly that he can’t get it done.
    —————————————————-

    Pitching coaches are former players so I think your statement isn’t accurate.

  69. blake March 29th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    I don’t know if I’ve ever heard so much discussion about a player that’s accomplished so little in the big leagues. That’s not meant to be a knock on Joba, its just interesting how polarizing he is.

    Much of it is who he plays for, imagine the conversations if he played for the Brewers, there wouldn’t be any. Let’s let the kid play and see what happens. He’s an asset to the team at a fairly young age and his role from here on out is largely going to be up to him. It really doesn’t need to be any more complicated than that.

  70. Jerkface March 29th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    How do you know that? Why can’t he be?

    He didn’t show it last season, and hasn’t shown anything this season yet. Its early, but if he lacks the command and velocity he had in 2008 he isn’t going to be an elite reliever.

    Also Papelbon was a closer in college, its fine making closers from college relievers in the major, but Joba has huge upside as a starter and for the most part his starting career in the majors is solid.

    Karstens and Rasner had multiple minor league seasons and multiple stints as a starter in the majors. Somehow Joba is getting less chances than Karstens.

  71. Bronx Jeers March 29th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Still, there could be a major job opening in the pen next season.

    I know everybody believes Mo is going to pitch for another few years but there’s also the possibility that he hangs it up.

    And no one, including me, wants that to happen but Mo does strike me as the type that will walk away on a high note. A la Mussina.

  72. MaineYankee March 29th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    randy

    I think you make good points about Joba.

    One question though, did he work hard to get drafted or was he drafted because of his potential?

  73. Giuseppe Franco March 29th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    William Buckner March 29th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    If Joba does a successful transition to pen and stays there, he is still a very valuable member of the team.

    Look at what Papelbon has done for the RS overall pen makeup.

    —————-

    William Buckner March 29th, 2010 at 10:05 am

    “Joba’s not going to be the same pitcher in the pen that these people think, mediots included.”

    How do you know that? Why can’t he be?

    —————

    First off, Papelbon was never the setup man for the RS. He was almost instantly put in the closer’s role once he started pitching for the big club out of the pen.

    They had nobody else. The Yanks have Mo – perhaps for another couple of years.

    Secondly, it’s obvious that Joba is not the same guy he was in 2007. You got a sneak peak at what he is now last year in the postseason.

    I read all the time how Joba was rejuvenated in that role and I don’t quite understand it. Were these people watching the same guy I was?

    Joba was okay, but he was far from good. He was better than Hughes but that doesn’t say much because Hughes, for whatever reason, had a disastrous postseason. He had no command at all.

    Joba was knocked around in the postseason. Look at the numbers. He’s not the same guy he was when he burst onto the scene.

  74. SJ44 March 29th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Betsy,

    don’t sell Mariano short. The Yankees have him talk to just about all of their young pitchers every year at the minor league complex about what they have to do to succeed.

    He also holds almost daily tutorials with the young arms in the major league roster.

    The guy knows as much or more about pitching than anybody in the game.

    Fans hold fire on him because they would sound moronic bangin’ on Mariano.

    It’s much easier and more conveinent to blame the pitching coach.

  75. Jerkface March 29th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Still, there could be a major job opening in the pen next season.

    That doesn’t mean the spot should be taken by Joba Chamberlain. That would be incredibly short sighted.

  76. blake March 29th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Bronx jeers,
    I agree with you. I think once Rivera senses that he’s slipping he will hang uhm up. He is very proud and I don’t see him accepting anything other than the level of performance he’s used to. Who knows when that will be but at his age is could happen any time really. Hopefully it won’t be for awhile but you never really know

  77. William Buckner March 29th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    “Somehow Joba is getting less chances than Karstens.”

    That’s not true. Karsten would have never been given a chance at all had the Yankees not completely ignored the draft for years and miss spent on FA starting pitching.

    As for what Joba has done in spring, it’s my feeling that it’s a bit early to assume he’s going to sit at 92mph with shaky control.

    Now that he’s been given a role I think he can focus on throwing 2 pitches and doing it well. Also won’t leave anything in the tank.

  78. Erin March 29th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    New Post: Rounding out the bullpen

  79. austinmac March 29th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    People, the Joba as a starter ship has sailed for this year. Would it be too much to ask that we talk about some other issue? I just hope Joba pitches well in relief and Hughes pitches well as a starter.

    To the poster who said Joba should pitch poorly in the bullpen to teach the Yankees a lesson. I recommend you go to other boards to post such an inane and childish comment.

  80. Rishi March 29th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    :arrow:

    More Bullpen talk

  81. Jerkface March 29th, 2010 at 10:26 am

    That’s not true. Karsten would have never been given a chance at all had the Yankees not completely ignored the draft for years and miss spent on FA starting pitching.

    Ok, but the fact remains he DID get multiple chances, and continued those chances with the Pirates. He has 600 minor league innings. Joba has 88. And Joba has been mostly good as a starter! And yet a lot of people are trying to close the book on him.

    The whole point of drafting is to get guys like Joba in the rotation.

  82. randy l. March 29th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    sj44-

    to pour gasoline on the fire on this rainy day from key west to millinocket, here’s a link to possibly cashman’s worst nightmare on his ability to develop and maintain home grown pitchers if things work out for wang with the nationals.

    http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....ming-wang/

    “He said that his shoulder was gradually gaining strength and that his next bullpen session would be at 75 percent effort. He hopes to be throwing at full strength by mid-April and to join the Nationals sometime after that. In the best case, Wang, who turns 30 this month, will still have the 95-mile-an-hour sinker that made him so effective for the Yankees.

    “See how I feel,” Wang said. “The team is looking for May. I hope the velocity comes back. When I throw now, the ball’s still sinking.”- tyler kepner

    brian cashman’s pitching staff won a world series last year, so what he did with the pitching staff has to be looked at as a success.

    however, having wang pitch last year when it was so obvious that he physically wasn’t right will look really bad if wang comes back after now undergoing proper rehab.

    of course, if wang doesn’t come back , cashman will look like a genius.

    cashman’s best pitchers are the ones he has made good decisions about signing as free agents or trading for( vazquez). perhaps that’s going to be the real model for the yankees rather than developing top of the line pitchers from within.

    just think about the backlash on cashman if wang comes back. combine that with the joba development debate .

    this pitching development debate may just be beginning.

    however, brian cashman has assembled a pitching staff that should give the yankees a good shot at #28.

    so how upset can yankee fans really be with cashman?

    it may not be pretty, but he’s getting the job done.

    which is why i’m watching the joba chronicles with partial detachment . i mean the yankees are loaded going into the season that starts next week.

    it’s a good time to be a yankee fan.

  83. RayVT March 29th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    I think that Joba’s preparing to be a starter this spring will help him in the bulpen. I personally think Joba will excel this year from the pen. Concentrating on his best 2 pitches, fastball & slider, will help him gain his confidence and swagger back. Pitching regularly as a reliever will help him get his pitching/arm motions down pat as well. Although I prefer Joba as an SP in 2011 and beyond, I think he belongs in the pen for 2010. I expect during the dog days of Summer, Joba will introduce his changeup again too. He will be able to work on it more during the season as a relief pitcher and side seesions having not thrown 100+ pitches every 5 days.

  84. 46fan4evr March 29th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Any wonder why this kid’s head must be like scrambled eggs???? You have a year of Joba rules, running him around like a chicken without a head, then a competition for the 5th starter this year – you award that job to Hughes, then say that Joba isn’t assured of anything, he might be in Triple A, then you say he’s in the bullpen, now you say starting isn’t being ruled out – I’M confused, how can he NOT be…..just leave him alone and let him pitch in one place!!!!!!!!!!!!

  85. ko March 29th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    What debate? It was obvious from the instant Cashman started meddling that moving Chamberlain from the bullpen was folly. Here was a lights out, force of nature out of the bullpen and Cashman, who knows nothing about baseball, decided he was going to improve things. Now we’ll be lucky to get Chamberlain back to anywhere near what he was after all the needless tinkering. This “controversy” was all caused by Cashman’s ignorance and arrogance.

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