The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Notes from Thursday

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes, Podcast on Apr 01, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Yankees Blue Jays Spring Baseball

No one seemed surprised by Thursday’s announcement that Curtis Granderson would be the Yankees opening day center fielder.

“They traded for Curtis and I kind of figured he would be the center fielder,” Brett Gardner said. “You get a guy like that, that’s where he’s most comfortable, and that’s where he needs to play.”

The Yankees expect Granderson to play every day, even against left-handers. He had two hits off a lefty on Thursday and, after a slow start this spring, he’s 10-for-22 in his past eight games.

“To come here and get a chance to play center, I’m definitely excited,” Granderson said. “But if the move happens to come, or (the decision) would have been different for me to go to left, or a week from now I’m playing left, I’m not going to be mad by any means.”

Here’s the Granderson audio.

Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.

As for Gardner, he knows he has to get on base to keep an everyday spot in the lineup. Marcus Thames could be a platoon partner and Randy Winn is used to being a regular, so Gardner has to perform.

“I’m just pretty hard on myself and I obviously haven’t had a very good spring at the plate,” Gardner said. “We’re going to be starting the season here pretty soon and I need to figure things out and get started. Last year I had a really good spring and got off to a slow start in the season, so hopefully this year it will be the exact opposite.”

Here’s the Gardner audio. He said some of his mechanical adjustments have made his bat a little faster than he’s used to and he’s been making contact too far out front. He has to get used to seeing the ball deeper and letting his new mechanics take over.

Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.

• Joe Girardi said this outfield alignment isn’t set in stone, but it’s clearly he way he’d prefer to keep it. “I think it’s something that we can always revisit,” he said. “I don’t think everything is always etched in stone, but my plan is to play Curtis in center.”

• If Francisco Cervelli can’t open the season, the decision of who would take is place is “a decision we would have to talk about,” Girardi said. Mike Rivera and P.J. Pilittere are in camp, but Rivera hasn’t played in almost two weeks since hurting his right hamstring. “We obviously need to get him back out there to see how he feels too,” Girardi said.

• Joba Chamberlain, Chan Ho Park, Dave Robertson and Royce Ring each pitched today, making it back-to-back games for each of them. Boone Logan went back-to-back yesterday. None of them allowed a run in their second appearance.

• Speaking of not allowing a run, minor leaguer Lance Pendleton picked up a save today with a scoreless ninth.

• Robinson Cano went 2-for-2 and raised his batting average to .380. He’s been terrific this spring. Granderson, Mark Teixeira and Nick Swisher also had two hits. All of those guys have really hit this spring.

• The plan is for Alfredo Aceves, Mariano Rivera and Damaso Marte to each pitch out of the bullpen tomorrow. Aceves needs to pitch come out clean on the other side to break camp with the team.

• Speaking of plans, Girardi said his regulars will start Saturday’s game against the Yankees minor leaguers, but, “You’re not going to see them play seven innings,” he said. “If a guy wants another at-bat or two at-bats, I’ll talk to each of our guys.” Javier Vazquez is starting that game.

That’s an Associated Press photo at the top. Those pictures look a lot better in this blog format.

Comments

comments

 
 

Advertisement

426 Responses to “Notes from Thursday”

  1. Josh April 1st, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    Why does the website look like this….its horrible!

  2. Bret the Hitman April 1st, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    MTU,

    I’m not sure how I’m doing.

    Life’s long patches of routine and complacency often evaporate into cosmic dust as brief phases of intense change replace all that is mundane.

    It is in these turning points and seismic shifts that harmony and chaos battle for power.

    Some really bad things have happened to me lately.

    But some amazingly positive things have transpired in my life all the same.

    It’s the Yin in the Yang maybe?

    I’ve been through times like these before and I’m learning it’s best not to panic but instead to trust, give in to my path and let nature unfold as it may.

    If I jerk the wheel too hastily, I might come down with a serious case of whiplash at this point.

    Left a girl.

    Lost a job.

    Rediscovering long lost talents.

    Found a girl.

    Feeling liberated yet slightly unsure and anxious about what comes next.

  3. Josh April 1st, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    nevermind….it looked weird, but now i don’t like it – I LOVE IT!

  4. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    I thought Curtis should have the CF job all along and I’m glad he got it.

    Poor Frankie – the Yankees should give him all the time he needs plus more; I don’t want this hamstring injury to become worse.

    The pen is looking good once again. Also, it’s nice to know that we have options at AAA should we need them (Ring and Logan to name to; Logan has been a very pleasant surprise). Aceves concerns me, I admit it; disk problems are not to be taken lightly.

    I was so worried about Tex possibly breaking his elbow, so this was just the best news. I would love to see what #s he could put up with a good start to his season. Swish has had a great spring – let’s see if he can continue this into the season. Cano has been amazing, but I recall him also being something of a slow starter. Nonetheless, if he can be even just decent with RISP, there’s no telling how good he can be.

  5. Dave F April 1st, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Having the link to the next post at the bottom and top is really convient. I think once they get done tweaking the color contrast, this new layout will be just great.

  6. MTU (aka GBURL) April 1st, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    Bret-

    Hang in there. Good things on the way. Hope the distraction of watching
    the Yankees crush the competition will add a positive. Send in some more creative trade proposals. Things have a way of working out for the best. ;)

  7. Doreen - 2010 GTLU April 1st, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    Bret -

    I hope things turn out well.

  8. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    I really hope Gardner hits well enough to play everyday, because the alternatives are suboptimal.

  9. Bll April 1st, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    To everybody who is having issues with the layout i was too. I was using google chrome with ad-block plus and when i disabled ad block the site looked perfect.

  10. Joe from Long Island April 1st, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Chad and Jeff – I’m slowly getting used to the new look, but, at least on my laptop, I keep getting strange symbols instead of apostrophes and quotation marks.

  11. pat April 1st, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    David Letterman visits #Yankees camp on tonite’s show.
    29 minutes ago

  12. Benny Blanco April 1st, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Cano is hitting 380? I’ll say it again, this kid can wake up in the middle of the night from a dream, step in the batters box and hit a baseball.

  13. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Me too, Joe..

  14. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    test: Cano’s great?

  15. Bret the Hitman April 1st, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    I will be watching this summer MTU, trust me. I plan to drink a lot of beer, get fat and tan and watch YES all summer long.

    I can’t totally let myself go though.

    My new squeeze is a health buff like myself.

    She’s smarter than me and quick to bring up the hazards of breaking the golden rules of nutrition.

    She has me worried about flouride now.

    Flouride?

    She says it’s nearly as toxic as arsenic.

    So now I have to read not only food labels, but tooth paste tubes as well. And let’s not forget the importance of organic bath and body products.

    Thanks for the encouragement.

    I’m happy on the whole MTU and believe my Karma is good.

  16. pat April 1st, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    You can make the font bigger on your own by going into your “view” menu, click on “text size” and make the adjustment yourself.

  17. Doreen - 2010 GTLU April 1st, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    Joe from LI -

    I’m getting those same symbols on my PC, but my mac laptop is fine.

  18. Bret the Hitman April 1st, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    Doreen,

    Thank you.

    My new cooking kick is stir fry.

    It’s quick, easy, healthy and delicious.

    They say that the stir fry method of cooking proteins is superior to grilling or baking because it reduces the advanced glycation end products known to damage DNA and hinder gene performance.

  19. MTU (aka GBURL) April 1st, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    Benny-

    “I’ll say it again, this kid can wake up in the middle of the night from a dream, step in the batters box and hit a baseball.”

    Must be a “Sleep hitter”. It’s very rare. :)

  20. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    I’m using Google Chrome on a PC and there are no symbols…yet.

  21. MTU (aka GBURL) April 1st, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    Bret-

    “Thanks for the encouragement”

    My pleasure. We’ve all been thru it. ;)

  22. Bronx Jeers April 1st, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    Personally, I couldn’t live without advanced glycation end products. When I go to a restaurant, I always make sure to ask for extra!

  23. yank 57' April 1st, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    Logan throws hard ! Reached 96 mph in last outing. How hard was Joba throwing today ?

    Anyone know ?

  24. Bret the Hitman April 1st, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    MTU,

    Do you think Joba will become the Joba of old by the end of the season?

    I think the results of his talent are so far a tragedy.

    His life outside of baseball has always been volatile and harsh.

    The one thing that keeps him grounded is the game.

    I hope he makes it back and recaptures the adoration of the fans that he had in 2007.

    To me, his story this year is THEE story of the Yankees 2010 season.

    Maybe CC will take him under his wing if Joba lets him.

  25. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    STUCKEY April 1st, 2010 at 7:04 pm
    “The site looks terrible in Chrome. Maybe they’re still working out the kinks.”

    I believe ESPN is to blame.

    ———————————————

    Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.

    Your refusal to believe in a possibility does not negate it.

  26. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    vb03

    Stuckey is a child with limited intelligence. The fact that he keeps throwing around Jason Bay and saying “Here’s one”, “There’s one”

    Never anywhere was it said that the Sox strategy was 100 percent effective. But the strategy, and the help of ESPN, puts them in a greater position to succeed.

    Jason Bay walked away, good for him. Well, the Sox turned around and got Scutaro and Beltre for under market deals.

  27. Frank from Chatham NJ April 1st, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    I use Google’s (Topeka’s) Chrome because it is a full 25% faster and all is well. In fact, this new format is quite attractive & slick. A good slick!

  28. Benny Blanco April 1st, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    Brett,

    I think there are several stories on this team. In no particular order.

    1) Robbie ( risp)
    2) PH ( original fan boy favorite) can he pitch to his potential
    3) Javy ( redemption)
    4) Granderson ( Newcomer)
    5) Healthy Alex..

    etc.

    I’m intrigued by Vasquez’s story the most. He gets a second chance to pitch in a big game in the post season.

  29. Jeff Marx April 1st, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    @Joe and Doreen, please email me at: jmarx@lohud.com. Let me know what kind of machine you are on (mac or pc). and what type of browser you are running.

  30. MTU (aka GBURL) April 1st, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    Bret-

    “Do you think Joba will become the Joba of old by the end of the season?

    I think the results of his talent are so far a tragedy.

    His life outside of baseball has always been volatile and harsh.

    The one thing that keeps him grounded is the game.

    I hope he makes it back and recaptures the adoration of the fans that he had in 2007.

    To me, his story this year is THEE story of the Yankees 2010 season.

    Maybe CC will take him under his wing if Joba lets him.”

    All I can say is I hope so. I’m pulling for PH and JC.

    As you know this subject has been discussed Ad Infinitum.

    Something has been lost between 2007 and now.

    The “why” is what interests many. Not sure anyone knows the “why”.

    Many theories.

    The Yankees believe that the simplification provided by pitching out of the BP will help Joba get his groove back.

    Time will tell. If that doesn’t work I’m sure other moves will be considered.

    I’m pulling for him to succeed. :)

  31. Bronx Jeers April 1st, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    I think Joba might benefit from a slight fade into obscurity. At least for a while.

  32. Bret the Hitman April 1st, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Benny,

    Vasquez could end up being one of the few Yankees in history who vaults from dog house status to ‘true Yankee’ status.

    I think it’s a nice story for the team and for Javy.

    I was always a big fan of his during his Expos days.

    I thought the original trade was a fleecing by Cashman.

    I was surprised when they traded him for Randy Johnson.

    I never ever wanted Randy Johnson on this team.

  33. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 8:48 pm
    vb03

    Stuckey is a child with limited intelligence. The fact that he keeps throwing around Jason Bay and saying “Here’s one”, “There’s one”

    Never anywhere was it said that the Sox strategy was 100 percent effective. But the strategy, and the help of ESPN, puts them in a greater position to succeed.

    Jason Bay walked away, good for him. Well, the Sox turned around and got Scutaro and Beltre for under market deals.

    —————————————————————–

    No need to look further than the sagas of Manny and Nomar to see the entirety of the Red Sox media hype/character assassination machine. Manny and Nomar were “doggin it”, “not trying”, etc – the media basically kicked them out of Boston, all in the meantime portraying the Red Sox as if some kind of poor team that has been victimized by a “bad seed” of a player.

    This is just pure speculation now, but I can’t blame Pedroia and Youkilis for accepting well below market deals, lest they get knocked to the ground by the Boston-controlled ESPN outlet, and have their character labeled as “selfish” throughout the league and the fanbase. Heck, Pedroia accepted a below market extension just after a MVP season (deserved or not), no less.

    The hype machine exists, except for those who deny that ESPN is anything but a New England-controlled and operated media outlet.

  34. blake April 1st, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    First time on the new site, my eyes aren’t used to it yet but I will adjust I imagine. I’m sure Eiland was behind this change…;)

  35. MTU (aka GBURL) April 1st, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    Blake-

    “First time on the new site, my eyes aren’t used to it yet but I will adjust I imagine.”

    Did you spend the day in a dark closet ? :)

  36. blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    MTU, nah I’ve been on a few times but just not on the computer. It looks the same as it used to on my blackberry. I probably would have been better off in a dark closet than at work today…I could have took a nap at least.

  37. Giuseppe Franco April 1st, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    Never understood the “true Yankee” garbage. One of the dumbest arguments in the history of dumb arguments was the constant arguments whether A-Rod was a ‘true Yankee’ even after he had won his 2nd MVP for this club.

    Every guy who wears the Yankee pinstripes is a Yankee until he’s not.

  38. Nick in SF April 1st, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    I have given up speculating about Joba’s future for the duration of Lent. I hope you will all be tolerant when I refrain to comment during this time period.

    Names are VERY bold on my blackberry, and names with website links are bold and royal blue.

  39. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    vb03

    Before anyone disputes you (which they will), I will point out that others might argue that Pedroia and Youkilis bought out their remaining arbitration years.

    But, coming off an MVP season (obviously not deserving), he was worth well more than he received.

    Also, while others might argue that Lackey got a huge deal, his 5th year option or whatever it is (with those injury terms) is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. He had all the leverage, being a free agent, and allowed a clause like that to be put in his contract.

  40. Bret the Hitman April 1st, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    MTU,

    I really hope the Yankees are right if they’re betting that he can regain more consistent mechanics throwing only 1 or 2 innings at a time and only two pitches instead of four.

    I think Joba’s mad at himself, even crushed, by his 2009 performance. I think he believes he let down his father and that eats away at him.

  41. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Really, the true Yankee stuff is goofy. If you get a paycheck that the Yankees cut, you are a true Yankee.

  42. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    A direct quote from when Manny got traded to L.A.

    “The Red Sox don’t deserve a player like me,” Ramirez told ESPNdeportes.com. “During my years here, I’ve seen how they [the Red Sox] have mistreated other great players when they didn’t want them to try to turn the fans against them.

    “The Red Sox did the same with guys like Nomar Garciaparra and Pedro Martinez, and now they do the same with me. Their goal is to paint me as the bad guy.

    – Manny Ramirez

    Now I’m not saying Manny is a bastion of truth, but he echoes the sentiments of Boston’s FO portraying players that are headed out the door in a bad light.

    And I’d listen to a MLB star first regarding inside information about how Boston’s FO operates before someone posting at a blog message board, that’s for sure.

  43. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    “First time on the new site, my eyes aren’t used to it yet but I will adjust I imagine. I’m sure Eiland was behind this change…;)”

    Wait, I think the change is a positive, so I’m experiencing some cognitive dissonance.

  44. Bret the Hitman April 1st, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    Well, at one point Javy was public enemy number one in New York. Fans wanted to strangle him. I was devastated by his 2004 playoffs. I hope he hears the roar of the crowd in a big playoff game after spinning a gem. What can I say? Im a sucker for happy endings.

  45. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    Manny may be right, but when you assault an aging traveling secretary, you probably don’t have sufficiently clean hands to complain.

  46. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    Manny may be kooky, but he’s not political. They indulged his eccentricities because it suited them. When it didn’t anymore, they demonized him. Losers win nothing without that bat. Nothing.

  47. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 9:03 pm
    vb03

    Before anyone disputes you (which they will), I will point out that others might argue that Pedroia and Youkilis bought out their remaining arbitration years.

    But, coming off an MVP season (obviously not deserving), he was worth well more than he received.

    Also, while others might argue that Lackey got a huge deal, his 5th year option or whatever it is (with those injury terms) is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. He had all the leverage, being a free agent, and allowed a clause like that to be put in his contract.

    ————————————

    Pedroia could have gone year by year if he was confident in his abilities. Same goes for Youkilis. Big stars are averse to sign undervalued extensions. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but FA is meant to get a player as much cash as he possibly can.

    The Lackey clause is bogus. Isn’t it something like he has to pitch for free in the 5th year if a pre-existing condition forces him to miss games at some point in the contract? That’s like a poison pill.

  48. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    I could see why fans would want to “strangle” Kevin Brown, but not Javy. He was hurt.

  49. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 9:09 pm
    Manny may be kooky, but he’s not political. They indulged his eccentricities because it suited them. When it didn’t anymore, they demonized him. Losers win nothing without that bat. Nothing.

    —————-

    +1. Well said. Manny was tolerated and fans looked the other way when they were winning, but when it was time for him to go, they pointed to these same eccentricities they’ve been ignoring for so long, that THIS was the reason they were dumping him.

    And the fanbase bought into it entirely. It was a joke. Manny was the glue to that entire fearsome lineup. Without him, Ortiz was a nobody.

  50. blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    “Wait, I think the change is a positive, so I’m experiencing some cognitive dissonance.”

    joke. I think its fine…doesn’t make that much difference to me.

  51. blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    “I could see why fans would want to “strangle” Kevin Brown, but not Javy. He was hurt.”

    I really never understood this either. People tend to forget that Vasquez was an all-star in 2004, its not like he was horrible the whole year. He had a great first half and was clearly hurt and not right in the 2nd. There was a whole host of reasons they ended up losing that series aside from him.

  52. Bronx Jeers April 1st, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    And of course if you were one of “The Chosen” you could always elect to Pass-Over the Joba comments. 

  53. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    I know, blake. My post was a joke too.

  54. Bret the Hitman April 1st, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    Rich,

    I don’t think ‘strangle’ is the right word for Kevin Brown.

    Not to mention, Mel and Joe should have never given him the ball.

  55. Giuseppe Franco April 1st, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    Not a believer in all the conspiracy theories regarding the Red Sox and the media.

    And even if I did, what does it matter? The games are played on the field.

    The Yanks were a better than than the Red Sox last season and I believe they are better than the Red Sox this season as well. We’ll all find out for sure at the end of the season.

    ESPN isn’t going downhill because of their alleged Red Sox homerism and anti-Yankee agenda. It’s because their talent sucks now.

    Baseball Tonight used to be an outstanding source of info a few years back. I mean, really good. Very entertaining and the guys knew their stuff. Now I can’t even watch it because it’s a train wreck. MLB Tonight blows it away by miles.

    I personally don’t think about the Red Sox very much until the Yanks play them head to head. And then I can’t wait until the series is over because it provokes way too much nonsense in the media and blogosphere.

  56. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    vb

    Along those lines is Marco Scutaro. Coming off a career year in a contract year, at 34 years old…

    Instead of trying to maximize his earning potential and trying to get the best valued contract or lengthiest contract, he took a pittance from the Red Sox with, if I believe correctly, a mutual 3rd year option….

    That if the Red Sox no longer want him after 2 years, he will be booted out the door like the piece of feces he is!

  57. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 1st, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    “But, coming off an MVP season (obviously not deserving)

    ——————————-

    Make the argument for who in your opinion should have won the MVP in 2008.

  58. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:15 pm
    “I could see why fans would want to “strangle” Kevin Brown, but not Javy. He was hurt.”

    I really never understood this either. People tend to forget that Vasquez was an all-star in 2004, its not like he was horrible the whole year. He had a great first half and was clearly hurt and not right in the 2nd. There was a whole host of reasons they ended up losing that series aside from him.

    —————————

    Javy had pretty much a dead shoulder that year and had no life on his pitches. He was brutal the 2nd half.

    He said that he hid the injury because he was afraid of being labeled a failure in New York. Ironic.

  59. blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Rich, big words confuse me.

  60. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    And the fanbase bought into it entirely. It was a joke. Manny was the glue to that entire fearsome lineup. Without him, Ortiz was a nobody.
    ====

    Ortiz was not a happy camper about the Manny business. Big Papi is no fool, he knew where his bread was buttered.

  61. hardwired April 1st, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    loving the new format. somehow, I feel more sophisticated.

  62. MTU(aka GBURL) April 1st, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    Bret-

    “I really hope the Yankees are right if they’re betting that he can regain more consistent mechanics throwing only 1 or 2 innings at a time and only two pitches instead of four.

    I think Joba’s mad at himself, even crushed, by his 2009 performance. I think he believes he let down his father and that eats away at him”

    I’ll let you play “armchair psychoanalyst”.

    I do not know what he feels.

    All I hope is that he can regain his form and fulfill his potential which IMO is considerable.

    He seems to have embraced the role.

    And I hope the challenge will bring out the best in him again.

    His Father is definitely an inspirational man.

    And I hope Joba can dig down deep and find what he needs. :)

  63. Boston Dave - XXVII April 1st, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    “Make the argument for who in your opinion should have won the MVP in 2008.”

    ———–

    Joe Mauer

    and Youkilis was just as valuable or more so to the Sox as Pedroia was (though they were both fantastic that year)

  64. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 1st, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    Beltre in his career has a .415 AVG and a 1.179 OPS when he pulls the ball. The Green Monster could be the best thing that ever happened in his career.

    It was a risk to turn down guaranteed money, but that risk could be well worth it.

  65. Nick in SF April 1st, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    Bronx Jeers: I will probably think that is funny once Lent is over.

    Seder? I barely know her!

  66. Boston Dave - XXVII April 1st, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    I have no problem with Pedroia getting it because there was probably no clear winner and he had an exceptional year.

    but it was certainly one of the weakest MVPs in recent history.

  67. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    The games are played on the field….with the players that are acquired in the offseason or during the season.

    The less the Red Sox spend on Player A (Youkilis) and Player B (Lester), the more they could spend on Player C (John Lackey).

    The less the Red Sox give up in trades, the more they have to be able to make more trades, and for a player like Adrian Gonzalez.

  68. blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    “ESPN isn’t going downhill because of their alleged Red Sox homerism and anti-Yankee agenda. It’s because their talent sucks now.”

    I agree, I don’t think their is a conspiracy or anything. I do think because of basic geography there are a lot of Red Sox fans that work at ESPN. Sometimes I think they let that slant their views and coverage on things..but they do cover the Yankees a lot as well.

    Baseball Tonight and ESPN’s baseball coverage has been lapped several times by the MLB network…they have better analysts and much better coverage IMO.

  69. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 1st, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    Boston Dave,

    Both of those guys could very well have been deserving but that is not really making the argument for why.

  70. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    MTU,

    Did you see the mini-interview w/Joba on ESPN a few days ago?

  71. Boston Dave - XXVII April 1st, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    LGY,

    stats prior to Seattle for Beltre are almost meaningless for obvious reasons.

    He has quite a bit to prove this season, IMO.

    I believe he can be good, but it’s not as if I expect him to be.

  72. MTU(aka GBURL) April 1st, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    Bohdi-

    “Did you see the mini-interview w/Joba on ESPN a few days ago?”

    Yes.

  73. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 1st, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    I have no problem with Pedroia getting it because there was probably no clear winner and he had an exceptional year.

    but it was certainly one of the weakest MVPs in recent history

    —————————

    Yeah I agree. That is why I wanted CR9 to make the argument for why Pedroia was not deserving

  74. Boston Dave - XXVII April 1st, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    LGY,

    It’s sort of silly, IMO, to argue who was the most valuable.

    I think it should be changed to Most Outstanding Player. Most Valuable is way too arbitrary and voters have shown that if it’s not black and white enough for them, they can do some pretty crazy things.

    I don’t think any player was or has been as valuable to their team as Joe Mauer, and thus he should pretty much get the award every season.

  75. Benny Blanco April 1st, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    CC pitched 230 innings last year. How many do you all think he will pitch this year. I have him down for about 200-220.

    I dont think they will let him pitch complete games if he doesn’t have to.

  76. blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    Pedroia wouldn’t have won the MVP with that season in most years but in that one particular season it was reasonable. He’s a good player..I actually like watching him dive around.

  77. Bret the Hitman April 1st, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    Bodhi

    I missed the Joba interview.

    What’d he say?

    ps

    Melkman to have a big year in Atlanta.

  78. Boston Dave - XXVII April 1st, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    LGY,

    I definitely think you might be on to something with Beltre, at least as far as his desire to play for Boston.

    That will be another interesting thing to watch this season.

  79. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 1st, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    “stats prior to Seattle for Beltre are almost meaningless for obvious reasons.”

    ———————————-

    He only had one year, 2004, that is out of line with his career norms or his time in Seattle. Other than that he has been pretty much consistent year to year.

  80. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    LGY

    Why did the media not give the award to Jeter over Morneau in 2006, but then give it to Pedroia over Morneau in 2008.

    Morneau’s years in 2006 and 2008 were comparable to Jeter and Pedroia’s years, and in my opinion, Pedroia should have won the MVP. But if that’s the case, Jeter should have won the MVP in 2006. As 2B and SS are more difficult to get such high production out of, while Morneau at 1B is expected to put up that production.

  81. Shame Spencer April 1st, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    First time seeing the new layout… pretty sweet guys!!

  82. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    Basically, my reasoning is, if they screwed Jeter out of it in 2006, why not screw Pedroia out of it in 2008.

  83. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    LGY

    “Beltre in his career has a .415 AVG and a 1.179 OPS when he pulls the ball. The Green Monster could be the best thing that ever happened in his career.”

    Don’t you think he will see lot of outside pitches at Fenway?

    btw, Where is that stat from, Fangraphs?

  84. Boston Dave - XXVII April 1st, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    Benny,

    I was thinking about that also. I really hope the Yanks bullpen pitches as well as they look like they will because you have to worry about CC’s innings over the past few years.

    He hasn’t slowed down yet but there’s no harm in cutting down on the big fella’s innings if you can.

    He is the definition of workhorse so far.

  85. Boston Dave - XXVII April 1st, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    “Basically, my reasoning is, if they screwed Jeter out of it in 2006, why not screw Pedroia out of it in 2008.”

    ———–

    interesting take on that :)

    considering Morneau did come in 2nd place in 2008, the stars were almost aligned.

  86. Boston Dave - XXVII April 1st, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    “Melkman to have a big year in Atlanta.”

    —————

    what is a big year for Melkman?

    Is he going to get regular playing time? He hasn’t technically cracked the starting lineup now that Heyward is on the team.

  87. blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    Morneau hit 11 more homers and hit .21 points higher in 2006 than 2008. Jeter and Pedroia’s years were comparable but Morneau’s 2006 was better than his 2008.

  88. Nick in SF April 1st, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    Pedroia got both votes from the Shire.

  89. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    Boston Dave

    Morneau’s stats, IIRC, were better in 2008 than 2006, and they also compared more favorable in 2008 with Pedroia than they did in 2006 with Jeter.

    But, both Pedroia and Jeter should have won, having played the positions that are more difficult to get offensive production out of.

  90. blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    Melky is probably going to platoon with the Braves I’d say. I think he will do well there though.

  91. Giuseppe Franco April 1st, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    The less the Red Sox spend on Player A (Youkilis) and Player B (Lester), the more they could spend on Player C (John Lackey).

    ————

    Youkilis and Lester were both under contract when they signed those extensions. The media didn’t have squat to do with it.

    They signed those deals because they wanted to stay in Boston for a long time. Do you think a big name Scott Boras client would have signed an extension?

    Not on your life. Maybe the Red Sox are lucky enough not to have a core of players represented by Boras.

    I just don’t buy that players are afraid of the “Red Sox media machine” making them out to be bad guys after they leave town. In fact, I think that’s ridiculous. Players aren’t going to let that stop them from going somewhere else if they have aspirations to do so. The fans are going to hate them anyways for leaving.

    I guess all the bad feelings between the Red Sox and Nomar subsided considering he came back so that he can retire and come full circle.

  92. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    Jeter definitely should have won the MVP in 1999: a 153 OPS+ for a SS!

  93. yank 57' April 1st, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    Nomar, Manny, Ortiz, Lowell, all juiced and no telling how many more. Nomar was skinny as a rail in H.S. ( I saw some of his games ) No muscle at all. Saw him with shirt off with R/Sox, looked like a minature Canseco above the belt. That’s why he has been so injury prone since leaving R/Sox. All these hip surgeries are due to PED’S . Never heard of any in the 80′s and before. They affect all joints and spinal column. Many will be paying in the coming years.
    I don’t think there’s a player from the Dominican Republic that has not used the D.R. “milkshake. ” HGH is still undetectable in baseball testing and so many more drugs are still masking other PED’S. Shameful ! Injuries are so much more prevalent now compared to 30 years ago, it’s ridiculous. !!! Check out the DL list rate compared to 30 years ago !!!

  94. NYY626 April 1st, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    I’ve actually heard a sox fan admit that it was kind of ridiculous that Pedroia has an MVP and Jeter doesnt ( alcohol was involved, he would not have admitted this while sober lol)

  95. NYY626 April 1st, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    I’ve actually heard a sox fan admit that it was kind of ridiculous that Pedroia has an MVP and Jeter doesnt ( alcohol was involved, he would not have admitted this while sober lol)

  96. Benny Blanco April 1st, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    Boston Dave,

    I’m also hoping that AJ can win 14-16 games. This is his second year and he pitched in big games for the yankees last year. If he can minimize his his walks and meltdowns in the middle of innings; I believe he can pitch to the tune of a 3.4 /3.5 era

  97. blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    CR9,

    Morneau 2006: Avg: .321, OPS: .934, HR’s 34, RBI 130
    2008: Avg: .300, OPS: ..873, HR’s 23, RBI 129

    He had a better year in 2006.

  98. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    “Your refusal to believe in a possibility does not negate it.”

    You’re right. The flaws in the reason, logic, and factual accuracy does.

  99. Jerkface April 1st, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    And even if I did, what does it matter? The games are played on the field.

    Homerism, media bias, etc only really matters from a fan perspective, though its annoying because some GMs might make deals based on perceived fan reaction.

    And we’re the fans, so we’re the ones complaining about it.

  100. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    Well, 11 homers is A LOT more…

  101. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 1st, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    Rich,

    It is in the splits on b-ref under ‘hit location’

    I have not watched Beltre much in his career so I really do not know for sure how pitchers approach him. I would assume like you they try to pitch him outside because he pretty much does all of his damage when he pulls the ball. But, I also think given his numbers when he pulls the ball he will take advantage of the Monster. There is only so much you can keep the ball on the outside corner.

  102. MTS April 1st, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    “I could see why fans would want to “strangle” Kevin Brown, but not Javy. He was hurt.”
    ___________________________

    neither makes any sense. Brown the whole time he was a Yankee. I can’t blame him for anything other than playing too long.

  103. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    “Jason Bay walked away, good for him. Well, the Sox turned around and got Scutaro and Beltre for under market deals.”

    i can name a bunch of players that settled for “under market” deals.

    Because that was that market.

  104. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    Thanks, LGY. It’s tough to pull and get lift on a pitch low and away, not impossible, but tough.

  105. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    “neither makes any sense. Brown the whole time he was a Yankee. I can’t blame him for anything other than playing too long.”

    What about punching the wall and breaking his hand?

  106. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    GF

    I already acknowledged that others (in this case, you) would say that players like Youk or Peedy or Lester bought out their arbitration years. Doesn’t matter, they took far less than they were worth.

    One of the top 5 pitchers in baseball – Lester

    Coming off an MVP season – Pedroia

    Abritration years bought out or not, they took far less than their value.

  107. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 1st, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    “But, both Pedroia and Jeter should have won, having played the positions that are more difficult to get offensive production out of.”

    —————————————-

    So what is your argument? You originally said Pedroia was undeserving. Is it that Morneau was undeserving when he won?

    Is it just anti-Yankee biased media and not pro-Red Sox? Or is there a pro-Twins media contingent?

  108. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    “No need to look further than the sagas of Manny and Nomar to see the entirety of the Red Sox media hype/character assassination machine. Manny and Nomar were “doggin it”, “not trying”, etc – the media basically kicked them out of Boston, all in the meantime portraying the Red Sox as if some kind of poor team that has been victimized by a “bad seed” of a player.”

    Nomar was never the same player after leaving Boston.

    Manny had an incredible few months with the Dodgers and then was suspended for 50 games.

    Ever consider the Red Sox knew something no one else did at the time?

  109. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    “Is it just anti-Yankee biased media and not pro-Red Sox?”

    How about a lot of both!!

    If you read my next comment, you would have seen that I only wanted to see Peedy get screwed like Jeter has been 3 times in his career!! But then again, the only stat that matters is World Series rings, and Jeets has 5 of those!!

    Im done with this topic of discussion.

  110. Boston Dave - XXVII April 1st, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    CR9,

    so did Longoria, David Wright, and more…

    I’d say most players that “sell” their arbitration years are going to take a significant paycut in exchange for the security of a guaranteed deal.

    Don’t forget, these guys hadn’t been making much $$ and an injury could come at any point with no guaranteed contract to fall back on.

    I think most players settle for less, including Lester, Pedroia, and youk.

  111. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 1st, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    The value for an arbitration eligible player is far less than a free agent. Saying what they are “worth” is very difficult to determine when you are buying out arbitration and FA years in one.

    The only way to really make this argument is if you can name some similar players that have signed for less and had their arbitration years bought out.

    There are also numerous other factors and motivations to take into account in this discussion that are quite unique to each player. Security of just having money in the bank is much more enticing for certain players. Lester in particular is a cancer survivor. It is entirely understandable that he would sign for “below” his value in favor of security. And I would like to point out again that you have not proved that he is signed for below value just made the assertion.

  112. MTU (aka GBURL) April 1st, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    Bohdi-

    I think you were opening the door for my impressions of the JC interview ?

    I gave a one word answer.

    The longer answer is that I thought that all of Joba’s responses were what you would expect them to be.

    I also thought that he was very gracious towards Phil Hughes which I thought showed a lot of class.

    Your thoughts ?

  113. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    Bret the Hitman April 1st, 2010 at 9:29 pm
    Bodhi

    I missed the Joba interview.

    What’d he say?

    ps

    Melkman to have a big year in Atlanta.
    =====

    It was curious. Gary Thorne (at least, it sounded like Gary Thorne) stated that Joba’s teammates “were rooting” for him to win the fifth spot. What was that like for Joba?

    You would have thought he’d refute it, but he said it felt ‘real good’ that guys were pulling for him. I found this interesting, in light of the apparent ardor Rivera, Jeter and one other (can’t recall) have for Joba-in-the-pen. Also, was interesting to hear him talk about how his teammates appreciate the work he’s put in. I just find myself chuckling – so many contradictions colliding re Mythical Joba.

    As MTU knows, it’s standard practice around here for some to lecture on Joba’s underwhelming work ethic…never even a disclaimer.

    Melky’s had a nice ST. As I understand it, he’ll play LF vs. RHP, CF vs. LHP, and take some spins in right to five Heyward a blow. I can see him eventually taking over CF for McClouth. Cox really likes him.

  114. blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    “Nomar was never the same player after leaving Boston.

    Manny had an incredible few months with the Dodgers and then was suspended for 50 games.

    Ever consider the Red Sox knew something no one else did at the time?”

    Time has shown that for whatever reason the Sox actually made the right call on both guys. I think they knew something was up with Nomar but I think they were probably just tired of Manny’s nonsense.

  115. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    “Along those lines is Marco Scutaro. Coming off a career year in a contract year, at 34 years old…”

    And it wasn’t that the rest of baseball was hesitant to give a multi-year deal to a 34 year old SS, who had his career year at 33?

    This stuff is absolutely rich.

  116. blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    I’ve been trying to convince my Braves fan friends that Melky is actually a good player. Most of them think the Braves totally got screwed in the trade. After seeing him this spring, he’s starting to grow on them a bit.

  117. pat April 1st, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    Is anyone a Newsday.com subscriber?

  118. Giuseppe Franco April 1st, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    GF

    I already acknowledged that others (in this case, you) would say that players like Youk or Peedy or Lester bought out their arbitration years. Doesn’t matter, they took far less than they were worth.

    One of the top 5 pitchers in baseball – Lester

    Coming off an MVP season – Pedroia

    Abritration years bought out or not, they took far less than their value.

    ————-

    And that was their choice. The media and/or ESPN had nothing to do with it. None of these guys were held at gunpoint when they signed those deals.

    King Felix just passed up the opportunity to become the highest paid pitcher in the game when he signed the extension with the M’s. Verlander signed an extension for less than what the Yanks are paying Burnett.

    We’re seeing this happen more and more now. Teams have more money than they have in years and they are locking up their guys for under market value.

    There is no conspiracy.

  119. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    “Is anyone a Newsday.com subscriber?”

    Do you need an article?

  120. blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    If there is a conspiracy, whoever is behind it isn’t doing a very good job considering the Yankees have won 27 WS and the Sox only 2 since 1918.

  121. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    “Pedroia could have gone year by year if he was confident in his abilities. Same goes for Youkilis. Big stars are averse to sign undervalued extensions. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but FA is meant to get a player as much cash as he possibly can.”

    Exceptions:

    Felix Hernandez

    Josh Johnson

    Matt Cain

    Joe Mauer

    Justin Upton

    Mark Reynolds

    Explain to me what a “rule” is again?

  122. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    blake April 1st, 2010 at 9:56 pm
    I’ve been trying to convince my Braves fan friends that Melky is actually a good player. Most of them think the Braves totally got screwed in the trade. After seeing him this spring, he’s starting to grow on them a bit.
    ====

    He can play on my team. Makes good contact, drives the ball well, SH, good glove, some speed, good arm.

  123. bagle April 1st, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    Very annoying that all these players show the Red Sox loyalty and respect, yet the organization has never shown their players respect when they no longer fit.

    Yet a class organization like the Yankees who shows everyone respects, gives guys extra $$$ to sign here, and gives legacy contracts to guys…. yet all of them try to take us to the cleaners in negotiations.

    Just watch… CC Sabathia, the consummate pro and great teammate is probably going to opt out and try and squeeze more money out of us, despite making him the highest paid pitcher in baseball last year.

  124. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    MTU (aka GBURL) April 1st, 2010 at 9:51 pm
    Bohdi-

    I think you were opening the door for my impressions of the JC interview ?

    I gave a one word answer.

    The longer answer is that I thought that all of Joba’s responses were what you would expect them to be.

    I also thought that he was very gracious towards Phil Hughes which I thought showed a lot of class.

    Your thoughts ?
    ====

    He always does the boilerplate thing, which is good for him. No sense letting them lean in on him too much.

    But I found Thorne’s comment interesting and his own comment re work ethic noteworthy.

    What I find encouraging is you can always find Joba sitting next to Pettitte, hanging with Pettitte, talking with Pettitte. Keep up the good work, Andy.

  125. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    The Yankees players actively rooted for Joba over Phil? I don’t think so……..nor do I think they were rooting for Phil. How on earth would Gary Thorne know this anyway?

  126. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    “Just watch… CC Sabathia, the consummate pro and great teammate is probably going to opt out and try and squeeze more money out of us, despite making him the highest paid pitcher in baseball last year.”

    Why focus on CC? If Jeter takes less it would set an example.

    The Yankees are still overpaying in part because George overapid. Cash has tried to change that, and if he made all the decisions, it would change, but ownership still intercedes.

  127. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    “Basically, my reasoning is, if they screwed Jeter out of it in 2006, why not screw Pedroia out of it in 2008.”

    Wait, I thought the media helped the Red Sox drive down the price of their own free agents…?

    Why are they handing out MVP awards in questions years to Red Sox players?

  128. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    Joba and Phil are friends, but even if they weren’t, I’d expect the loser of the battle to show respect to the other.

  129. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    That’s what I found noteworthy. He didn’t ask him – he stated it, and Chamberlain did not refute it. I have no idea where the source of that statement comes from, but I found it interesting, given the near religious zeal many seem to have to turn him into a life-long short man.

  130. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    You can’t blame Braves fans for feeling that way. Melky is a nice player, but he is in no way the OF equivalent (or close) of Javy Vasquez.

  131. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    Stuckey

    All your examples were this year. That was not the rule at the time of the Red Sox extensions.

    Let me guess… The Red Sox were ahead of the curve, because they’re the smartest organization around!

    Also, Scutaro actually passed up more money from another team. So, the fact is that more money was indeed on the table. He claimed he took less from Boston “for the chance to win”

  132. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    Betsy,

    They also got a projectable young arm in Vizcaino and a young lefty reliever who can throw 97 mph. It wasn’t a Melky-for-Javy swap.

  133. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    Bodh, I don’t believe it…..The Yankees are going to make it clear, around Thorne of all people, that they are rooting for Joba? I don’t see how Joba’s response makes it true, either.

  134. Alex April 1st, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    Aside from hyping their prospects, I really don’t see the media biased in favor of the Sox. We got plenty of credit for winning 27. Plenty of them are picking us to win the WS again… 9 of 13 SI writers picked us to win the WS.

    Picking the Sox to win the division and/or WS is not enough proof that they are biased. The Sox are a terrific team. Why does everyone have to pick the Yankees? Is it that outrageous to suggest a team with a rotation like that can win a few short series in October?

  135. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    “They also got a projectable young arm in Vizcaino and a young lefty reliever who can throw 97 mph. It wasn’t a Melky-for-Javy swap.”

    Why do you hate Michael Dunn?

  136. pat April 1st, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    Rich

    I wanted to know what Ken Davidoff said in his blog about Bernie Carbo.

  137. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    “Wait, I thought the media helped the Red Sox drive down the price of their own free agents…?

    Why are they handing out MVP awards in questions years to Red Sox players?”

    Didn’t seem to matter. Still got Peedy at bargain bin prices.

    And Jeter is still in the top 4 of highest paid baseball players.

    LOL

  138. igotid88 April 1st, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    this one still blocks the abe name. i thought it was fixed.

  139. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 9:40 pm
    “Your refusal to believe in a possibility does not negate it.”

    You’re right. The flaws in the reason, logic, and factual accuracy does.

    ——————————-

    Explain to me the factual flaws of suggesting that New England has a media hype machine based in Bristol, Connecticut. Explain the exits and statements of guys like Manny Ramirez, Pedro, and Nomar once they were on course to leave Boston.

    Explain how suggesting that the organization that composes the biggest sports network in continental America (that is mostly comprised of New England based employees) is biased in their reporting towards the Red Sox, is an unreasonable and illogical hypothesis.

    ——————————-

    STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:01 pm
    “Pedroia could have gone year by year if he was confident in his abilities. Same goes for Youkilis. Big stars are averse to sign undervalued extensions. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but FA is meant to get a player as much cash as he possibly can.”

    Exceptions:

    Felix Hernandez

    Josh Johnson

    Matt Cain

    Joe Mauer

    Justin Upton

    Mark Reynolds

    Explain to me what a “rule” is again?

    ——————————–

    Explain to me how all the other major leaguers, numbering that of magnitudes above your few examples, try to gain maximum monetary gain in FA?

    Under your logic and “rule”, a guy is almost required to give his old team a “hometown discount”.

    Your “rule” is the exception. FA is defined in a manner for the players to make the most money. It was what FA was designed to do, and I think even you would not be as daft to deny that.

  140. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    bodhisattva

    Ignore my last post. I’m watching Jeopardy while posting and missed the “young lefty” part.

  141. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 10:10 pm
    “They also got a projectable young arm in Vizcaino and a young lefty reliever who can throw 97 mph. It wasn’t a Melky-for-Javy swap.”

    Why do you hate Michael Dunn?
    ===

    Huh?

  142. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    pat

    –In the latest example that baseball was hardly “pure” prior to 1998, Bernie Carbo told The Boston Globe that he was using amphetamines when he hit his famous, game-tying home run in Game 6 of the 1975 World Series. Are we gonna shake our fists over this? If not, why not? How is it any different from players who used steroids?

  143. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    Bodh, Blake didn’t refer to Vizcaino, he referred merely to Melky. Dunn is eh, so for me I didn’t care about giving him up.

    I missed a lot of the conversation, but it does bother me that players will do whatever they can to stay with the Sox, but Yankees players won’t do the same – no home town discount, no nothing. If Beckett were on the Yankees, no way he’d re-sign and forgo free agency.

  144. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    Betsy – Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 10:10 pm
    Bodh, I don’t believe it…..The Yankees are going to make it clear, around Thorne of all people, that they are rooting for Joba? I don’t see how Joba’s response makes it true, either.
    ====

    Uh, don’t believe or disbelieve. I’m not invested either way. I just found it interesting.

  145. blake April 1st, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    “They also got a projectable young arm in Vizcaino and a young lefty reliever who can throw 97 mph. It wasn’t a Melky-for-Javy swap.”

    and they shed some payroll. Their beef is that would rather have traded Lowe. The thing they don’t get is that nobody wanted Lowe and his contract so the Vasquez deal was really probably the best option they had. Got a good young OFer, a good pitching prospect, and shed payroll and the Yanks got a darn good pitcher.

  146. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    “All your examples were this year. That was not the rule at the time of the Red Sox extensions.”

    When were they then? Give me the comps that prove the rule the year they were signed?

    “Also, Scutaro actually passed up more money from another team. So, the fact is that more money was indeed on the table. He claimed he took less from Boston “for the chance to win””

    Are you arguing Scutaro’s impression was media-created? The Red Sox haven’t been a good team the last decade?

  147. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    Alex April 1st, 2010 at 10:10 pm
    Aside from hyping their prospects, I really don’t see the media biased in favor of the Sox. We got plenty of credit for winning 27. Plenty of them are picking us to win the WS again… 9 of 13 SI writers picked us to win the WS.

    Picking the Sox to win the division and/or WS is not enough proof that they are biased. The Sox are a terrific team. Why does everyone have to pick the Yankees? Is it that outrageous to suggest a team with a rotation like that can win a few short series in October?

    ————————-

    The point I’m trying to make that the New England-based ESPN can be a megaphone for Boston to take advantage of.

    Whether this translates to the field is another question entirely. Like I said before, the Yankees are being run exceptionally well at the moment, so they have not caught up even with this advantage.

  148. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    “Didn’t seem to matter. Still got Peedy at bargain bin prices.”

    Regardless, it still works against your argument.

  149. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 10:11 pm
    bodhisattva

    Ignore my last post. I’m watching Jeopardy while posting and missed the “young lefty” part.
    ===

    Lol. Jeopardy can be very absorbing. I love it when an entire category is Shakespeare. Hopefully, you got the Jeopardy question right :D.

  150. RD 232 April 1st, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    Jeter is not going to take a discount. Why should he?

    So he can bail out the organization for their desperation contracts of the past decade?

    Jeter has earned his next contract.

  151. pat April 1st, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    Rich

    Thanks

    I read the Globe article this morning and thought it was going to be something more insighful than that.

  152. blake April 1st, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    “Ignore my last post. I’m watching Jeopardy while posting and missed the “young lefty” part.”

    I’ll take SWords for $400.

  153. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    Stuckey

    I put “for the chance to win” in quotes because those were his words and I was quoting them directly.

    Maybe Jeter will stay with the Yankees next year for less money, “for the chance to win”!!!!!!! ;)

  154. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    Uh, ok – I was just commenting.

  155. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    RD 232 April 1st, 2010 at 10:16 pm
    Jeter is not going to take a discount. Why should he?

    So he can bail out the organization for their desperation contracts of the past decade?

    Jeter has earned his next contract.

    —————————————————

    Let me switch Jeter with Pedroia in your post. Let’s say this was after he had an MVP season, and is an up and coming 2nd baseman in the AL, a homegrown Boston product.

    “Pedroia is not going to take a discount. Why should he?

    So he can bail out the organization for their desperation contracts of the past decade?

    Pedroia has earned his next contract.”

    And yet Boston bought out his arb years and if I’m not mistaken, at least a year of FA for well below market value prices for a MVP 2B.

  156. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    “Like I said before, the Yankees are being run exceptionally well at the moment, so they have not caught up even with this advantage.”

    Spot on, VB.

  157. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    “Explain to me the factual flaws of suggesting that New England has a media hype machine based in Bristol, Connecticut. Explain the exits and statements of guys like Manny Ramirez, Pedro, and Nomar once they were on course to leave Boston.

    Explain how suggesting that the organization that composes the biggest sports network in continental America (that is mostly comprised of New England based employees) is biased in their reporting towards the Red Sox, is an unreasonable and illogical hypothesis.”

    There isn’t a need. That isn’t what I’m disputing, and I think you know it.

    I’m arguing that whether that bias exists or not has ANYTHING to do with giving the Red Sox advantages in trades and free agent signings.

  158. Jake April 1st, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    Red Sox lock up their young players. We don’t. Well aside from Cano, we don’t have any young players. Hughes or Joba have not shown what Lester has.

    They locked up Youk, Pedroia, Youkallis, etc.

  159. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    “The point I’m trying to make that the New England-based ESPN can be a megaphone for Boston to take advantage of.

    “Whether this translates to the field is another question entirely.”

    A question I was under the impression you had a specific answer to.

    Was I mistaken or are you backtracking?

  160. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:21 pm

    blake April 1st, 2010 at 10:13 pm
    “They also got a projectable young arm in Vizcaino and a young lefty reliever who can throw 97 mph. It wasn’t a Melky-for-Javy swap.”

    and they shed some payroll. Their beef is that would rather have traded Lowe. The thing they don’t get is that nobody wanted Lowe and his contract so the Vasquez deal was really probably the best option they had. Got a good young OFer, a good pitching prospect, and shed payroll and the Yanks got a darn good pitcher
    =====

    If you listen to Braves fans, Javy was loathe to leave Atlanta.

    Really looking forward to watching Heyward’s ABs all year long. Going to have to shell out for Braves at Citifield – ah well, at least I know it’ll be easy to get tix :D. Will be nice to cheer on the Melkman, too.

  161. igotid88 April 1st, 2010 at 10:21 pm

    Jake April 1st, 2010 at 10:19 pm
    Red Sox lock up their young players. We don’t. Well aside from Cano, we don’t have any young players. Hughes or Joba have not shown what Lester has.

    They locked up Youk, Pedroia, Youkallis, etc.
    ————————————————-

    Hughes hasn’t been given a full year as a starter. But he has shown good stuff.

  162. Giuseppe Franco April 1st, 2010 at 10:21 pm

    I’ll never understand the whole media conspiracy angle when these players decided on their own to take less money to play for the Red Sox.

    Good for them.

    It must be like the mini-series ‘V’.

    Theo and Co. convey their message through propaganda and force these players to take less money to sign with RSN or they will rip off their masks (unveiling their lizard-like appearance) and eat them for dinner!

  163. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 10:22 pm

    “Jeter is not going to take a discount. Why should he?”

    No, Yankee does, but if one were to set an example in order to give the team more payroll flexibility, who better than the Captain?

  164. blake April 1st, 2010 at 10:23 pm

    “Really looking forward to watching Heyward’s ABs all year long.”

    He’s impressive isn’t he. The Bravos are gonna be pretty good I think if their pitching stays healthy..Hanson is gonna be a stud as well.

  165. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 10:23 pm

    STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:18 pm
    There isn’t a need. That isn’t what I’m disputing, and I think you know it.

    I’m arguing that whether that bias exists or not has ANYTHING to do with giving the Red Sox advantages in trades and free agent signings.

    ———————————————-

    Why not? If Boston uses the media to help vilify an exiting star, it reduces fan backlash and keeps them on the side of the organization. A disillusioned fanbase is never good for a franchise. The media can also portray the Red Sox as a superior model organization, and over enough time, this helps cements their reputation around baseball.

    As for the trades, Red Sox prospects like Bard, Tazawa and Westmoreland are being touted in the media more than other prospects in baseball, thanks to the media hype machine and the inordinate number of employees that salivate over them and talk about them as if they are the 2nd coming. This increases their value in trades.

    It’s not a be-all end-all. However, it exists, and it does have an effect.

  166. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    “Explain to me how all the other major leaguers, numbering that of magnitudes above your few examples, try to gain maximum monetary gain in FA?”

    Give me the Youklis and Pedrioia comps? Give me a list of the “rule” players in this equation?

    “Under your logic and “rule”, a guy is almost required to give his old team a “hometown discount”.”

    No, I’m simply saying many do. No rule. No logic. A simple statement of fact that calls into question if your “rule” is in fact, really a rule.

    “Your “rule” is the exception. FA is defined in a manner for the players to make the most money. It was what FA was designed to do, and I think even you would not be as daft to deny that.”

    I’m not. I’m asking you to prove that MOST arbitration eligible players enter free agency.

    Can you?

  167. Ian April 1st, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    vb,

    Boston is smart – they lock up their promising young players before they become stars. Rather than getting paid $10+ million in arbitration or going to FA, they are locked up on team-friendly contracts.

    Young players will take the job security and run. They already locked up Youkallis, Lester, Pedroia, and Buchholz is probably next if he takes the next step this year. They also smartly realized that Papelbon is not worth extending and they will squeeze what they can out of him and move on to Bard.

    They also set precedents with guys like Bay, Damon, Pedro, etc. which gives them a ton of leverage when dealing with their stars. They just have a smart business model.

  168. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    Agreed, Rich.

    While I know Jeter deserves every penny he gets, it would be a great gesture for him to make, and it would set an example for the future.

  169. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    I certainly don’t believe there is any conspiracy to get the Sox players to re-sign; it’s just annoying that the Yankees don’t ever get this sort of break.

  170. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:20 pm
    “The point I’m trying to make that the New England-based ESPN can be a megaphone for Boston to take advantage of.

    “Whether this translates to the field is another question entirely.”

    A question I was under the impression you had a specific answer to.

    Was I mistaken or are you backtracking?

    —————————-

    It has an effect that it helps tout the value of Boston as an organization and its young prospects that may or may not actually be good. When New England based employees are your broadcasters, Boston will be painted in a benevolent light.

    This may or may not translate to wins on the field, but it has the desired effect of keeping the fanbase on their side and thus keeping ticket sales exceptionally high, and enables them to seamlessly ship out older stars like clockwork, preventing any ugly smears to their organizational reputation.

  171. m April 1st, 2010 at 10:27 pm

    Jeff,
    Running a PC laptop. IE has funny symbols. Chrome & Firefox are fine.

  172. SportsGeek April 1st, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    [[ Double-posted ]]
    Doreen, Regarding GTLU… Why not accept submissions starting now, and until the Yankees announce the lineup- or 15 minutes before (in case it is leaked or something)?

    Your time window is very constricting, and I know I won’t be able to submit during that narrow time window.

  173. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:24 pm
    “Explain to me how all the other major leaguers, numbering that of magnitudes above your few examples, try to gain maximum monetary gain in FA?”

    Give me the Youklis and Pedrioia comps? Give me a list of the “rule” players in this equation?

    “Under your logic and “rule”, a guy is almost required to give his old team a “hometown discount”.”

    No, I’m simply saying many do. No rule. No logic. A simple statement of fact that calls into question if your “rule” is in fact, really a rule.

    —————————-

    I don’t believe that 10 or so players doing it calls into question the value of FA as a medium to maximize earning potential. We can agree to disagree on this if you’d like, but that’s my take.

    —————————-

    “Your “rule” is the exception. FA is defined in a manner for the players to make the most money. It was what FA was designed to do, and I think even you would not be as daft to deny that.”

    I’m not. I’m asking you to prove that MOST arbitration eligible players enter free agency.

    Can you?

    —————————–

    Most arbitration players, at least those who are confident in their ability to remain or improve on their stats, traditionally go year to year to maximize their earning potential, and then hit FA and again, maximize earning potential there.

    Even fewer let their free agent years get bought out.

    MVP candidates or winners usually fall into this category.

  174. d-train April 1st, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    Rich,

    Because the Yankees are almost always a desperate party and have to win every year. They are also a team that is built on marketing, PR, etc.

    Red Sox have let all-stars go year after year. They also clearly don’t care about how they are perceived or what the fans think… as evident by their treatment of players after they leave.

    Yankees have gone too far down this road to reverse course now. If they are cheap with Jeter, they will not win that battle.

  175. SportsGeek April 1st, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    Doreen, here is my submission for Opening Day GTLU:
    SS Jeter
    DH Johnson
    1B Teixeira
    3B Rodriguez
    2B Cano
    C Posada
    CF Granderson
    RF Swisher
    LF Gardner
    P Sabbathia

  176. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    blake April 1st, 2010 at 10:23 pm
    “Really looking forward to watching Heyward’s ABs all year long.”

    He’s impressive isn’t he. The Bravos are gonna be pretty good I think if their pitching stays healthy..Hanson is gonna be a stud as well.
    ====

    Hanson is a K machine. Hope he pitches in the Met series in May. Braves leading all teams in ST in OBP, and Cox credits Heyward as setting the example. Imagine that – kid is a wee-tot, and he’s setting an example for guys on his team. He’s something to watch with 2 strikes on him.

  177. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    “Why not?”

    Why not??

    So because you can dream it up, it has to be true?

    “If Boston uses the media to help vilify an exiting star, it reduces fan backlash”

    What is “fan backlash”? How is that relevant to this discussion?

    “A disillusioned fanbase is never good for a franchise.”

    Lol.. anyone with even a passing familiarity with Major League baseball would bother to argue the Rex Sox organization needs to be concerned with a “disillusioned fanbase”.

    Were you born in 2004 or something?

    “The media can also portray the Red Sox as a superior model organization, and over enough time, this helps cements their reputation around baseball.”

    Yeah, all the winning is just gravy. It’s the highlights on Baseball Tonight that really do the trick.

    “As for the trades, Red Sox prospects like Bard, Tazawa and Westmoreland are being touted in the media more than other prospects in baseball, thanks to the media hype machine and the inordinate number of employees that salivate over them and talk about them as if they are the 2nd coming. This increases their value in trades.”

    No, it doesn’t. That’s your conspiracy theory. You can’t prove it.

  178. Zolio April 1st, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    Look at the reaction when we let Damon go. No one said it was smart… the media and fans alike called Hal cheap and begged for George to come back. They all said it was a cosmetic budget and it is odd that we can’t find $2 mil extra for that good of a player and how we would miss him so much.

    When the Sox let someone go, it is always “they know what they are doing” and it was a “good move to let him go a year early”. When we tried that with Damon, it was about how cheap we were.

  179. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    Betsy – Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 10:25 pm
    I certainly don’t believe there is any conspiracy to get the Sox players to re-sign; it’s just annoying that the Yankees don’t ever get this sort of break.
    ===

    Pettitte played for peanuts and nailed all of his incentives. Not that he would have commanded a ton on the market, but he took one for the team.

  180. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    d-train April 1st, 2010 at 10:30 pm
    Rich,

    Because the Yankees are almost always a desperate party and have to win every year. They are also a team that is built on marketing, PR, etc.

    Red Sox have let all-stars go year after year. They also clearly don’t care about how they are perceived or what the fans think… as evident by their treatment of players after they leave.

    Yankees have gone too far down this road to reverse course now. If they are cheap with Jeter, they will not win that battle.

    ———————————————

    How they are perceived and how the fans think are being controlled through media outlets.

    This is one of the main advantages of the media hype machine. A lot of casual fans are not knowledgeable and will eat up whatever the mainstream media tells them.

    They buy tickets and continue to support the team partly because the media always puts the Red Sox on a pedestal. The organization, despite treating stars going out the door like dirt, are still spotless.

    Why? Because the mainstream media force feeds this information into the casual fan.

  181. blake April 1st, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    Didn’t Nick Johnson turn down a two year deal for more money to return to the Yankees?

  182. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    He might have. Let’s not forget that Beltran, though not a player of ours, was willing to take less to succeed his idol, Bernie.

  183. Giuseppe Franco April 1st, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    Wins on the field is what keeps fans coming back to Fenway.

    There is no substitute for wins and postseason appearances (unless you’re a Cubs fan).

  184. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    I never had a problem with how the Yanks dealth with Andy in 2009, but he’s an unusual guy in that he’d rather go year to year and he only wants to play for the Yankees. Generally speaking, players try to hold the Yankees up – even their own players. I’m very glad the Yankees held the line with Damon and I expect that we will see more of that in the future; Cash is no fool.

  185. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    Blake, good point. I’m not sure he had a deal on the table with the Giants, but it was close. Yes, it was a 2 year deal in which he would play 1B.

  186. m April 1st, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    I’d rather the spin machine tout the Boston prospects than ours. These kids will never win the Cy Young, batting titles, and mvp’s hoisted upon them.

    Our kids can do their thing without pressure, progress through the levels at the proper rate and with minimal external expectations. The higher the Sox prospects are projected, the deeper the perceived failure.

  187. Bailey April 1st, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    Red Sox have won 2 World Series this decade, gone to the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years, developed numerous all-star players this decade (Youk, Pedroia, Lester, Papelbon, etc.), and are a historic franchise that has the 2nd largest fan-base in the sport. Theo has made many good moves, smart trades, and most of the time, has had a payroll from $50-70 million less than us.

    The Sox get coverage because they are a GOOD FRANCHISE, not because of some anti-Yankee conspiracy.

  188. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    d-train

    I think Alex’s contract provided the perfect opportunity to change the CW, but the Steinbrenners’ ignored Cash’s advice. In part, I think they means that they have money to burn, which is what most players and agents probably think anyway.

  189. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:42 pm

    “I don’t believe that 10 or so players doing it calls into question the value of FA as a medium to maximize earning potential. We can agree to disagree on this if you’d like, but that’s my take.”

    No, I don’t agree that you’re not wrong.

    You’re saying the Red Sox extending two arbitration eligible players to less money than they’d make on the open market is a advantage most other teams don’t have, or can’t take advantage as often or to the degree the RS do.

    Saying a player will make more on the open market does that prove that .. at all.

    You need to prove it’s highly usual for other players and other teams to do what Youk/Pedroia/Red Sox did.

    CAN you do that, yes or no?

    “Most arbitration players, at least those who are confident in their ability to remain or improve on their stats, traditionally go year to year to maximize their earning potential, and then hit FA and again, maximize earning potential there.”

    Okay, prove it.

    I can name a TON of players off the top of my head that signed extensions. Add Hanley Ramirez to the list. I don’t think I can name MANY more stars that reach free agency. There is usually a handful of upper crust players on the market in any given year and the vast majority of them are NOT entering the market in the first year they are elligible.

    If I’m wrong, you should easily be able to prove me wrong.

    Can you?

  190. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    m

    The hype machine boosts their trade value, so there is a cost and a benefit.

  191. blake April 1st, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    ‘I’m very glad the Yankees held the line with Damon and I expect that we will see more of that in the future; Cash is no fool.”

    I like the precedent that set. I wanted Damon back but I’m also glad they didn’t give in and pay over his value. If they hold firm enough times perhaps the perception that the Yankees will overpay for anybody will change and player’s expectations will also change.

  192. m April 1st, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    The bias is there because espn in the heart of red sox nation.

    You don’t see The Sporting News, Sports Illustrated, or other sports news sites being biased towards the Sox.

    Anyway, it doesn’t matter. We’re the reigning world champions and nothing they say can take that away. They’ll just have to prove them wrong again this season.

  193. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:33 pm
    “Why not?”

    Why not??

    So because you can dream it up, it has to be true?

    ——————————————————————

    The converse is equally true:

    So because you can’t grasp the concept, it has to be false?

    We can go around and around like this, but there’s no point. Moving on.

    ————————————–

    “If Boston uses the media to help vilify an exiting star, it reduces fan backlash”

    What is “fan backlash”? How is that relevant to this discussion?

    ——————————————————

    Ask organizations like the Royals and Pirates what fan backlash is, what happens to a franchise when it gets a bad reputation.

    Those are obviously extreme examples, but the point is you’re not gonna sell as much tickets if your fanbase is dissatisfied with your product.

    —————————————————–

    “A disillusioned fanbase is never good for a franchise.”

    Lol.. anyone with even a passing familiarity with Major League baseball would bother to argue the Rex Sox organization needs to be concerned with a “disillusioned fanbase”.

    ——————————————————

    If you think that franchises don’t think in a business model with the customer in mind, I don’t know what to tell you.

    ——————————————————

    Were you born in 2004 or something?

    —————————————————-

    Potshots are unnecessary and add nothing to the discussion.

    ——————————————————

    “The media can also portray the Red Sox as a superior model organization, and over enough time, this helps cements their reputation around baseball.”

    Yeah, all the winning is just gravy. It’s the highlights on Baseball Tonight that really do the trick.

    —————————————————–

    So you don’t think the media hype since 2001 has not elevated Boston as suddenly a “chic” team to root for in baseball. Funny how the previous 70+ years they didn’t have this kind of media-driven reputation as a “model” organization.

    Was it all the losing? Doubt it, they went to more than their share of playoff games in the last 70 years.

    ————————————————————–

    “As for the trades, Red Sox prospects like Bard, Tazawa and Westmoreland are being touted in the media more than other prospects in baseball, thanks to the media hype machine and the inordinate number of employees that salivate over them and talk about them as if they are the 2nd coming. This increases their value in trades.”

    No, it doesn’t. That’s your conspiracy theory. You can’t prove it.

    ————————————————————-

    Let me clarify.

    This increases their value in trades such that the organization trading for these prospects will reduce the casual fan backlash of trading a star to Boston for these same prospects.

    You don’t think casual Joe won’t be tempted to stop buying tickets to Indians games if he thought Hagadone sucked and the Indians traded Martinez for pennies?

    However, since Hagadone has been highly touted by the hype machine, casual Joe will say “oh wow that kid is good, I heard on ESPN” and therefore, is less likely to be disillusioned with Cleveland.

  194. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    Bailey April 1st, 2010 at 10:40 pm
    Red Sox have won 2 World Series this decade, gone to the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years, developed numerous all-star players this decade (Youk, Pedroia, Lester, Papelbon, etc.), and are a historic franchise that has the 2nd largest fan-base in the sport. Theo has made many good moves, smart trades, and most of the time, has had a payroll from $50-70 million less than us.

    The Sox get coverage because they are a GOOD FRANCHISE, not because of some anti-Yankee conspiracy.
    ====

    All of that is true, but they have played themselves up as the Anti-Yankees, and that identity is what appeals to Yankee haters and feeds the anti-Yankee agenda. They have completely marketed themselves this way – the owner is always saying something stupid about the Yankees.

  195. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    “They buy tickets and continue to support the team partly because the media always puts the Red Sox on a pedestal. The organization, despite treating stars going out the door like dirt, are still spotless.

    Why? Because the mainstream media force feeds this information into the casual fan.

    You are now displaying a GLARING ignorance of Red Sox history, which is a baseball story that begins LONG before ESPN was ESPN and NESN even existed.

    In fact, NESN exists BECAUSE of the Red Sox history with the fans, not the other way around.

  196. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    Cash held the line with Abreu and Matsui too.

    It’s easy to do with aging players when the market has drastically changed. It’s harder to do with superstars, both young and old.

  197. m April 1st, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    Rich,

    Seriously? I would think a gm would pay attention to all sources of information. Especially scouts in the field.

    A team is going to give the Sox their prize player because Peter Gammons (and now Keith Law), said the Sox prospect will win a Cy Young or an mvp?

    I understand your point, but if a gm will succumb to overhyping, then he deserves to get fleeced.

  198. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 10:47 pm

    Blake, that’s my hope…

  199. Tarheelyank April 1st, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    Just got here. It’s different, but I kind of like it. I do wish the font was a little bigger. At 125% it seems a little big at 100% a little small. I guess I am just set in my ways.

    Stuckey and VB03

    You guys are nitpicking each other to death. You both have some valid points. Come to a consensus already.

    My arbitration fee bill is in the mail. :D

  200. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:49 pm

    Hagedone sits 93-94. That’s good for a lefty, and he also apparently hits 98 and has a real good slider.

    Can’t say i was cryin’ that Boston gave him up.

  201. blake April 1st, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    “It’s easy to do with aging players when the market has drastically changed. It’s harder to do with superstars, both young and old.”

    Superstars are always going to get their money. Even in the last two years when the economy has been dreadful the elite players have still got paid. What the Yankees appear to be shifting to is the concept of saving their significant cash for those players when they need them and being more economical in other areas. I think thats smart given the state of things.

  202. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 10:52 pm

    m

    It’s not just ESPN, it’s also Baseball America. Both sources are widely disseminated and read by most baseball people. It can’t make a bad prospect into a good prospect, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it has some impact on talent evaluation.

  203. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    m April 1st, 2010 at 10:39 pm
    I’d rather the spin machine tout the Boston prospects than ours. These kids will never win the Cy Young, batting titles, and mvp’s hoisted upon them.
    ====

    I remember when nobody knew who AJax was. Not too long ago, a buddy of mine and I were telling people on another site about this kid Montero. TImes have changed – I don’t think our kids will enjoy much insulation going forward. But I agree – let them rhapsodize on Lars Andersson and Jed Lowrie.

  204. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    blake

    Yes, but the issue usually isn’t AAV, it’s the number of years. That’s where I would like to see the Yankee hold the line.

  205. pistol pete April 1st, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    Gardner’s wins the left field job with a stellar 204 no power spring, a sad sad state of affairs. We spent 700k on Gaudin, 2m on Winn who appears finished, and 800m on Thames who hit 150 in spring training. That’s 3.5m on 3 duds. Damon would have signed for $6m, just 2.5m more than the combination of these 3 killers and allowed a young inexpensive player to make the team. Everyday productive, clutch, experienced hitters who can hit vs left and right handed pitching is hard to find. They should have signed Damon. He was a great 2 hole hitter. He has much better speed than Johnson, would have allowed Johnson to hit 6th lengthening the lineup and would have allowed Granderson to bat 9th between Swisher and Jeter 2 rightys elieviating his weakness batting against leftys. Big mistake, big mistake, Cashman let his ego get in the way of what was best for the team, big mistake. I like Gardy but he’s not an everyday player, has no power, unproven in the clutch and playoffs and although he’s done ok vs leftys the sample is small and most likely he will struggle vs them. Should have signed Damon, big mistake!

  206. Kevin April 1st, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    I like the new format on the blog. Layout is a lot sharper, more modern, easy on the eyes. I like all the new tabs also. Well done.

  207. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 10:55 pm

    “Damon would have signed for $6m, ”

    Where are the facts to support that? He turned down $7m per for two.

  208. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:55 pm

    “So you don’t think the media hype since 2001 has not elevated Boston as suddenly a “chic” team to root for in baseball. Funny how the previous 70+ years they didn’t have this kind of media-driven reputation as a “model” organization.”

    The “media” you describe didn’t EXIST prior to this decade.

    And you can argue all you like about the media machine being a product of ESPN the rest of the sports media that prays at their alter, it still doesn’t translate to what you want it to.

    “This increases their value in trades such that the organization trading for these prospects will reduce the casual fan backlash of trading a star to Boston for these same prospects.”

    Okay, I had to read that 3 times to understand it.

    Why don’t teams just make better trades?

    Why are teams lining up to get back inferior players from the Red Sox? Why not get players with ACTUAL value? That will make that better AND satisfy the fans.

    “You don’t think casual Joe won’t be tempted to stop buying tickets to Indians games if he thought Hagadone sucked and the Indians traded Martinez for pennies?”

    So why didn’t the Indians get better players for Martinez? And sell THAT to fans?

    Your theory requires you have a good answer to this question.

  209. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 10:55 pm

    STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:42 pm
    “I don’t believe that 10 or so players doing it calls into question the value of FA as a medium to maximize earning potential. We can agree to disagree on this if you’d like, but that’s my take.”

    No, I don’t agree that you’re not wrong.

    You’re saying the Red Sox extending two arbitration eligible players to less money than they’d make on the open market is a advantage most other teams don’t have, or can’t take advantage as often or to the degree the RS do.

    Saying a player will make more on the open market does that prove that .. at all.

    You need to prove it’s highly usual for other players and other teams to do what Youk/Pedroia/Red Sox did.

    CAN you do that, yes or no?

    ——————————————————————————-

    Youk and Pedroia were MVP candidates/winners at the time their extensions were signed.

    So I’ll tell you what, let’s look at former MVP winners and contenders, and see how they dealt with their contract situations prior to FA.

    Derek Jeter had to deal with arbitration in 1999. Here is what happened:

    “His $5 million arbitration victory ties the second-largest in baseball history. And, the $1.8 million disparity between the numbers submitted in the Jeter hearing was the largest ever.”

    Jeter then landed his current contract in 2001, making him the richest Yankee at the time. He was one year from FA the contract was signed.

    I’d say in all these situations, Jeter maximized his earning potential, even prior to FA.

    Next: Ryan Howard.

    “Howard made $900,000 last year and $355,000 during his MVP season in 2006. The Phillies offered $7 million, but Howard became the first player to win in six arbitration cases this season.

    Howard tied the record for the highest salary awarded in arbitration, received by Alfonso Soriano in his losing case against the Washington Nationals in 2006. Soriano had sought $12 million.”

    Arbitration-eligible years being bought out via extensions simply is not the norm for big stars, let alone MVP candidates.

    Detailed enough for you?

    ——————————————————————

    “Most arbitration players, at least those who are confident in their ability to remain or improve on their stats, traditionally go year to year to maximize their earning potential, and then hit FA and again, maximize earning potential there.”

    Okay, prove it.

    I can name a TON of players off the top of my head that signed extensions. Add Hanley Ramirez to the list. I don’t think I can name MANY more stars that reach free agency. There is usually a handful of upper crust players on the market in any given year and the vast majority of them are NOT entering the market in the first year they are elligible.

    If I’m wrong, you should easily be able to prove me wrong.

    Can you?

    ———————————

    See above. MVP candidates and winners usually go year by year and maximize their earning potential via the arbitration process.

  210. Tarheelyank April 1st, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    Lets hope Theo and Co. keep believing thier self induced hype. Because If they say it often enough it must be true. ;-)

  211. CCBiggs April 1st, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    Gardner in left is weak! You can live with his weak bat if he’s a CF, but a slap-hitting corner outfielder is unacceptable. His days are numbered, and rightly so.

  212. m April 1st, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    Who are the principles at Baseball America?

    I know Bill James’ name still has a certain cache. And he’s openly talked about the Sox as the collective “we” this season.

    Senator Mitchell heading an investigation on steroids when he was sitting on the board of the Red Sox was another :? .

    What I’m trying to say is that the inherent biases of the employees/principles can very possibly lead to a certain amount of, let’s say, zealous excitement about certain prospects?

    But smart people now choose to take what Peter Gammons says about the Red Sox, their players, their management, and their prospects with a pile of salt.

  213. blake April 1st, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    Rich,

    I agree with you but I think thats a case by case thing. The elite guys who want long term security you either have to give them the years or do without them in most cases. Long term deals don’t worry me that much as long as they are given to the right people. Their problem a few years ago was that they were giving them to the wrong people.

  214. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 10:55 pm
    “So you don’t think the media hype since 2001 has not elevated Boston as suddenly a “chic” team to root for in baseball. Funny how the previous 70+ years they didn’t have this kind of media-driven reputation as a “model” organization.”

    The “media” you describe didn’t EXIST prior to this decade.

    And you can argue all you like about the media machine being a product of ESPN the rest of the sports media that prays at their alter, it still doesn’t translate to what you want it to.

    “This increases their value in trades such that the organization trading for these prospects will reduce the casual fan backlash of trading a star to Boston for these same prospects.”

    Okay, I had to read that 3 times to understand it.

    Why don’t teams just make better trades?

    Why are teams lining up to get back inferior players from the Red Sox? Why not get players with ACTUAL value? That will make that better AND satisfy the fans.

    ——————————————————-

    Because Hyped Boston Package trumps Non-Hyped Team B Package in the eyes of the ESPN-watching casual Joe, and the organization is less likely to deal with fanbase backlash.

    A better trade does not always equate with a “placating the fanbase” trade.

    You get fired if tickets don’t sell.

    ——————————————————–

    “You don’t think casual Joe won’t be tempted to stop buying tickets to Indians games if he thought Hagadone sucked and the Indians traded Martinez for pennies?”

    So why didn’t the Indians get better players for Martinez? And sell THAT to fans?

    Your theory requires you have a good answer to this question.

    ————————————————-

    Does the Indians have a national media outlet to hype these better players to the casual Joe who buys tickets at the ballpark? No. How do you send that message to your fanbase then?

  215. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    m

    Jim Callis, John Manuel, Tracy Ringolsby, among others.

    James has been a RS employee.

    blake,

    I don’t mind so much with guys under 30. I do mind with players over 30 no matter how good they are.

  216. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 11:03 pm

    “But smart people now choose to take what Peter Gammons says about the Red Sox, their players, their management, and their prospects with a pile of salt.”

    But not all those dumb hicks in Cleveland.

  217. blake April 1st, 2010 at 11:03 pm

    “I don’t mind so much with guys under 30. I do mind with players over 30 no matter how good they are.”

    agree.

  218. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 11:03 pm

    Got to go. Stuckey, we can take up this debate again at a later time if you wish. Good discussing with you.

  219. CR9 April 1st, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    How is fan backlash relevant?

    LOLOLOLOL

  220. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 11:03 pm
    “But smart people now choose to take what Peter Gammons says about the Red Sox, their players, their management, and their prospects with a pile of salt.”

    But not all those dumb hicks in Cleveland.

    ——————————–

    Sigh. This applies to all casual Joes, not just those “dumb hicks in Cleveland”, as you refer them as.

    Later.

  221. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    And the casual Joe buying tickets at the stadium is not baseball savvy. That’s where the media hype machine has the most effect.

  222. m April 1st, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    See? Jim Callis is also an espn employee. I’ve seen him very down on some Yankee prospects.

    They have their agendas, and want to satisfy certain fanbases. And at times they can be plain wrong. Or right even if they’re down on Yankee prospects. In the end, we should be focused on what’s really important. #28 :P

  223. pistol pete April 1st, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    Rich I’m sure Damon would have taken $6 for 1 with the Yanks vs $8 for 1 with the Tigers. When Damon was floated by Cashman after the Vazquez trade he alluded to a $6m 1 yr deal with $3m deferred. Why jerk Johnny around, we’ll spend prospects and money to fix left field by the all star break. We spent $3.5 among Gaudin(released), Winn(appears finished, can’t hit leftys), and Thames(hit 150 in spring training). I just don’t get it.

  224. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    pistol pete

    I’m not.

  225. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 1st, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    “See above. MVP candidates and winners usually go year by year and maximize their earning potential via the arbitration process.”

    Pujols, Rollins, Braun, Morneau, Youk, Pedroia, Wright, Reyes, Cano, Hill, Justin Upton, Longoria, Gutierrez, Hanley, Zimmerman, Markakis, A-Gon, Utley, Crawford, Tulowitzki all just checked their bank account and said Hi!

  226. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    “Because Hyped Boston Package trumps Non-Hyped Team B Package in the eyes of the ESPN-watching casual Joe, and the organization is less likely to deal with fanbase backlash.

    A better trade does not always equate with a “placating the fanbase” trade.

    You get fired if tickets don’t sell.”

    Okay, so not only do the Red Sox manage to hype players enough so that the value of their inferior packages actually EXCEED the “perceived” value of superior packages of talent (as opposed to being equal (which negates your theory), but teams like Cleveland take the SHORTSIGHTED approach of taking back less talent, for some immediate benefit that will be moot when these players don’t develop as dumb hick ESPN-watching fans expect them to?

    The fans are SO dumb they FORGET they players aren’t what they thought they’d be?

    You honestly believe this?

    “Does the Indians have a national media outlet to hype these better players to the casual Joe who buys tickets at the ballpark? No. How do you send that message to your fanbase then?”

    So in the eyes of dumb hick midwest fans, NO GOOD players exist outside the Boston system?

    And who exactly are these dumb hick fans who are so stupid they can’t figure out what YOU have, but someone know who the hell Justin Masterson, Nick Hagadone and Bryan Price are?

    lol

  227. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    “Got to go. Stuckey, we can take up this debate again at a later time if you wish.”

    This was a debate?

  228. Bailey April 1st, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    It’s easy to hold the line with players who are over 35 and have no value in the market.

    Abreu and Damon didn’t sign until Valentines Day and had to settle for 1 yr deals under $10 mil after both making $13+ the previous year.

    Matsui had virtually no market either as a DH.

    Let’s see what they do if CC opts out in 3 years. Or what they do with Jeter/Rivera. That is a better indicator.

  229. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    “Arbitration-eligible years being bought out via extensions simply is not the norm for big stars, let alone MVP candidates.

    Detailed enough for you?”

    Not even close. You named 3. You had to go back 9 years to find one of them.

    “See above. MVP candidates and winners usually go year by year and maximize their earning potential via the arbitration process.”

    Saying it doesn’t prove it. Proving it proves it.

    Can you?

  230. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 1st, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    stuckey,

    What do you think about that list of guys I posted. MVP candidates?

  231. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    “Gardner in left is weak! You can live with his weak bat if he’s a CF, but a slap-hitting corner outfielder is unacceptable. His days are numbered, and rightly so.”

    Granderson can hit ya 30.

    So switch them. Put Granderson in left and Garnder in center.

    That makes the Yankees more acceptable, right?

  232. vb03 April 1st, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 11:13 pm
    “Got to go. Stuckey, we can take up this debate again at a later time if you wish.”

    This was a debate?

    ————————————

    You know what, I was trying to be reasonable with this, but you’re a pretty obnoxious poster. Believe what you want.

  233. Tarheelyank April 1st, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    Off topic:

    April is Autism Awareness month.

    1 of every 110 children born today will be diagnosed with a form of autism (CDC, 12/2009).

    http://www.autismspeaks.org/

    Thanks.

  234. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    LGY,

    As big of an a-hole I can be, I try to play pile-on-the-rabbit when other posters come in and lay waste to stupid arguments.

    I prefer you get all the glory….

  235. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    Try not that was supposed to read

  236. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 1st, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    “You know what, I was trying to be reasonable with this, but you’re a pretty obnoxious poster. ”

    I can be. But your reasonability is without reason.

  237. Jonathan April 1st, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    Hey – How is this for a novel concept…

    Maybe the Sox prospects are actually good and there is no hype involved? Again, what is in it for every publication to ‘hype’ the Sox? Do they get more money? Does it make their job easier?

    As Yankee fans, we think our prospects are the best and Boston’s are overhyped. Perhaps that isin’t what the reality is and Boston actually does have some good prospects?

    Oh – and their farm has actually produced 4 all-star players since 2006 in Youkalis, Pedroia, Papelbon, and Lester. They also developed one of the top 5 players in baseball (Hanley) and traded him.

    Again… what benefit does the media gain by hyping up the Sox prospects?

  238. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 1st, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    stuckey,

    Lol. Everyone has there limits of a-hole-ness. Pile on the rabbit is a violation of stuckey’s moral code of posting. :)

  239. Tarheelyank April 1st, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    “As big of an a-hole I can be”

    The best thing you posted all night.

  240. Rich in NJ April 1st, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    “Maybe the Sox prospects are actually good and there is no hype involved? Again, what is in it for every publication to ‘hype’ the Sox? Do they get more money? Does it make their job easier?”

    The only analogy I can offer is a political one: some publications praise certain policy prescriptions even when they lack an empirical rationale.. Why? Because they think highly of the people who promulgate the policies.

    Similarly, in baseball, certain decision-makers are given deference because they they have had success in the past.

  241. Boston Dave - XXVII April 1st, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    “Maybe the Sox prospects are actually good and there is no hype involved?”

    ————

    the prospects are good but there is likely some added hype involved by some outlets as well.

    I am very unbiased with the Sox and often defend some of their players on here but I can call a spade a spade.

    It’s a little of both for sure.

    Westmoreland and Kelly both top 25 prospects that havent played above A ball?

    there are some legit prospects who are close to the majors who are ranked below those 2.

  242. Boston Dave - XXVII April 1st, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    ditto to what Rich said

  243. m April 1st, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    Jonathan,

    Those are great players. But what about Lowrie? Tazawa? And ever other prospect that Gammons overhyped?

    I guess a prospect’s just a prospect until he’s no longer a prospect. That’s why for me personally I can’t get too excited about a player who won’t see the majors for another 3~4 years. The attention span is just too short. :P

  244. BT 34 April 1st, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    Yankees = Duke = Cowboys

    Red Sox = UNC = Patriots

    Two groups of successful franchises, but viewed differently by the sports world.

  245. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    You know the hype is at saturation point when Mike Francesa, who knows nothing about anyone’s farm system, screams into the phone that “the Red Sox have 6 or 7 powah ahms in their system that can throw 100 miles an hour.”

    I was so sorry I could not get through. I was going to ask him: “Name them. No – name one, other than Bard.”

    Alas.

  246. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    Ooh, sorry, I omitted the clincher: “6 or 7 powah ahms close to the majors.”

  247. Jay April 1st, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    Perhaps Theo and co. are more friendly and provide more information/access to the baseball scouting media than Cashman and co. do?

  248. Jay April 1st, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    bod,

    And Joel Sherman’s suggestion in his preview article yesterday that the Sox could acquire Gonzalez mid-season for Tazawa, Bard, and Reddick.

    The hype machine is out of control. People who don’t even follow minor league baseball treat these guys like 5-star prospects.

  249. m April 1st, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    If “more information/access to the baseball scouting media” equals bribes, then…yeah! ;)

  250. Yanks 182 April 1st, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    Remember when Francessa was hyping Hunter Jones, Bowden, and Masterson because they shut us down on that Sunday Night.

    I remember his show the next day was all about how Theo has run circles around Cashman in the development dept. and thats why they are the model franchise… and he cited those 3 players. He didn’t even use Ellsbury, Lester, etc. He used Bowden, Masterson, and Hunter Jones to talk up the Sox development system.

  251. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 11:41 pm

    Francesca worships the Red Sox; they can do no wrong in his eyes. That said, he knows nothing about Yankees prospects, so I’m sure he knows even less about the Sox prospects. Undoubtedly he’s going by the glowing reports even the worst of the Sox prospects receive….

  252. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    When Francesca gets on his soap box about the Sox, I shut him off. Then again, I would do the same if anyone started waxing poetic about the Sox. I respect them a great deal, but I’m not about to put them on a pedestal.

  253. Mike April 1st, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    Francesa has been a MUCH better listen since we won the WS. I can’t recall one time that I shut him off since winning. He has been very positive, talking about how loaded we are. He loves the off-season acquisitions and argues with guys who diss Johnson or Vazquez. He thought they handled Damon the right way and thinks we won’t miss him, he thinks Hughes deserved the spot in the rotation, like Granderson etc.

    I don’t remember him even talking that glowingly about Boston so far this year. He is basically implying that the Yanks are going to blow everyone away this year.

  254. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    Jay April 1st, 2010 at 11:38 pm
    bod,

    And Joel Sherman’s suggestion in his preview article yesterday that the Sox could acquire Gonzalez mid-season for Tazawa, Bard, and Reddick.

    The hype machine is out of control. People who don’t even follow minor league baseball treat these guys like 5-star prospects.
    =====

    Lol. The Red Sox reportedly presented this list to Seattle for Felix:

    RHP Clay Buchholz
    RHP Daniel Bard
    RHP Justin Masterson
    LHP Nick Hagadone
    RHP Michael Bowden
    LHP Felix Doubront
    OF Josh Reddick
    SS Yamaico Navarro

    Seattle snickered and said “no.”

  255. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    Mike, I agree that Francesca has been very positive about the Yankees this year.

  256. Boston Dave - XXVII April 1st, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    Hagadone is on Cleveland so I wouldn’t give to much credence to that reported trade offer.

    The Sox did supposedly give a list of guys and said the Mariners could pick a handful of them.

    I imagine the Yankees inquired as well.

  257. Boston Dave - XXVII April 1st, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    well, considering Masterson is on the list, I am guessing you meant it was offered prior to the VMart trade.

    That is actually quite a bit to give up for any 1 player, but of course, this is the King we are talking about.

  258. mlear2 April 1st, 2010 at 11:52 pm

    Man, I really wish we still had Johnny (and Melky, to be honest with you). Damon — Granderson — Swisher.

    Oh, what could have been.

  259. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 11:52 pm

    It was before the V-Mart deal. And the Sox said pick five.

    I guess Seattle said, pick this.

  260. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 1st, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    I don’t think he was on Cleveland at the time the “offer” was made, BD.

    Let’s hope Phil develops into the top of the rotation starter we think he can be (same goes for Joba IF that’s what he’s meant to do) and that our other kids pan out to one degree or another. As others have mentioned, teams are locking up their kid pitchers and it’s just not feasible to think we’re going to be able to sign them once they hit FA.

  261. NYY626 April 1st, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    spring training segment now on Letterman….

  262. Tarheelyank April 1st, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    “See above. MVP candidates and winners usually go year by year and maximize their earning potential via the arbitration process.”

    “Pujols, Rollins, Braun, Morneau, Youk, Pedroia, Wright, Reyes, Cano, Hill, Justin Upton, Longoria, Gutierrez, Hanley, Zimmerman, Markakis, A-Gon, Utley, Crawford, Tulowitzki all just checked their bank account and said Hi!”
    —————————————————————

    Below is a breakdown of the 128 players that filed for salary arbitration in 2010

    1-Yr Deals–109

    2-Yr Deals–11

    3-Yr Deals–5

    4-Yr Deals–1

    5-Yr Deals–2

    109 single year deals to 19 multi-year contracts

    http://www.bizofbaseball.com/i.....Itemid=183

  263. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 1st, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    Hughes just has to stay healthy. The rest will take care of itself in his case.

    Keeping my toes and fingers crossed on Garcia’s health. If they pigeon-hole Joba, a healthy Garcia would be a tremendous boost.

  264. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 12:01 am

    Dont know if Id put the Cowboys with Duke and Yankees. Both carry themselves with such class. Cowboys really dont. Though I like Romo.

    Dont know if Id put the Tarheels with Red Sox and Patriots. Both carry themsevles with such a scumbag philosophy. Tarheels really dont. Roy Williams is also a Yankees fan. Dean Smith was as class as class gets.

  265. Patrick April 2nd, 2010 at 12:02 am

    Seattle snickered and said “no.”

    —–

    Haha if that list is true, wow..

    First of all there’s no way I’d trade King Felix but if I did I’d demand at a minimum Kelly, Bucholz, Westmoreland and Anderson. Even then I don’t think it’s enough.

  266. mlear2 April 2nd, 2010 at 12:03 am

    Could you guys imagine this lineup:

    Jeter
    Damon
    Tex
    A-Rod
    Matsui
    Posada
    Granderson
    Cano
    Swisher

    All it would have taken for this lineup to happen was for the Yankees to resign Damon and Matsui. I think the team we have right now is good, but dear god could you imagine this lineup?

    You never know, Damon and Matsui only have one year deals with their respected teams. It could still happen. ;)

  267. Jay April 2nd, 2010 at 12:04 am

    Ken Rosenthal
    Source: Schoeneweis makes #Redsox, Nelson to AAA. #MLB 46 minutes ago

  268. becca April 2nd, 2010 at 12:04 am

    That Yankee segment on Letterman was pretty darn funny.

  269. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:06 am

    Bodh, I agree about Phil staying healthy; last year was huge for him in that regard. People think of Joba as being confident because he’s sort of a loud personality, but Phil is confident as well. He went after the #5 job aggressively and believes that now is his time; I love this attitude and think it’s half the battle. Everytime I read a quote of his, I see him gaining in maturity. He’s talking about being a 4 pitch pitcher – a real pitcher – and that’s exciting. What’s equally exciting is his confidence in all his pitches, even the change.

    I don’t believe the Yankees have given up on Joba as a starter, but now it’s up to Joba to show why he should be a starter down the line. He’s a talent worth working with and developing, but let’s hope he’s got the desire.

  270. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:07 am

    I was fine with Felix staying put. Frankly, I didn’t want the Yankees to trade their farm system for him.

  271. Dave D. April 2nd, 2010 at 12:08 am

    CR,

    I think he meant as far as how they are perceived by the fans/media.

    Tarheels have been just as successful as Duke, but it is no comparison of who is hated more. Same with Yanks and the Sox.

    Pats/Cowboys is debatable. I would probably substitute the Steelers for the Pats. Steelers have been enormously successful and they are viewed very favorably. But the Pats are still not hated as much as Dallas is, probably because of their owner and all the hype they get every year.

  272. Patrick April 2nd, 2010 at 12:10 am

    Uh yeah gotta disagree here Betsy. I’d trade anyone in the Yankee system to get Felix.

    But I’m kind of glad the Yankees didn’t because it’s good for baseball when teams sign their own young stars.

  273. Mike April 2nd, 2010 at 12:10 am

    ESPN New York has officially launched:

    http://espn.go.com/new-york/index

  274. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:11 am

    I thought the Yankee segment on Letterman was funny too. The bit with Pettitte had me chuckling for a few minutes.

  275. Rockks April 2nd, 2010 at 12:12 am

    Tom Brady is a likeable guy… thats why the Pats are not hated as much as their success dictates they should.

    I mean, who can hate Tom Brady?

  276. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:13 am

    Patrick, it doesn’t make any sense to me to trade all of your top prospects to land a guy even like Felix. What happens when the team starts to act its age? Felix would be left with a decrepit team behind him.

    I don’t watch Letterman or any talk shows; is that the segment they usually have with Biff?

  277. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 12:14 am

    “Seattle snickered and said “no.”

    Exactly.

    Martinez: Rule

    Fernandez: Exception.

    See how that works?

  278. pistol pete April 2nd, 2010 at 12:14 am

    Please don’t embarass yourself by comparing the Yankees with the Cowboys. The Yankees have class, not flash, have Jeter as leader not Romo, won 5 championships since Cowboys won a playoff game, are quiet and competant, the Cowboys are neither of these.

  279. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:15 am

    Yeah – I see Mr. Matthews already has an article up there about how the Yanks got “outrageously” lucky last year. I have no desire to read Johnette Howard, Wally Matthews or Ian O’ Connor……..blech.

  280. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:16 am

    The Mets get their former beat writer from last year with Rubin and the Yankees end up with that hack Wally Matthews. That’s just not right! I won’t be paying much attention to ESPN-New York then.

  281. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:16 am

    However, thanks for posting that, Mike.

  282. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:17 am

    Craw, me either. If this means that Wally won’t be writing for Newsday now, it’s actually good news.

  283. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 2nd, 2010 at 12:17 am

    Betsy,

    Ditto on Hughes.

    He pitched very well as a starter after the Baltimore afternoon mishap. People tend to forget that stretch before he went into the BP.

    As for Joba, I have no evidence that he has a desire issue. I won’t make any assumptions here nor uncritically accept second-hand musings on an internet board.

    What I will do is watch closely and see how he responds and how the Yankees handle him. They have not done a good job, IMO, thus far.

  284. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 12:18 am

    I hate Tom Brady. He is a whiner and he has a sense of entitlement.

    UNC has far more success than Duke, but is less hated. LOL

  285. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 12:18 am

    “Could you guys imagine this lineup:”

    Not that difficult being it’s one player removed from last year’s line-up.

    “All it would have taken for this lineup to happen was for the Yankees to resign Damon and Matsui. I think the team we have right now is good, but dear god could you imagine this lineup? ”

    I think they’re very, very, very good the way they are.

  286. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 2nd, 2010 at 12:20 am

    Matthews is the Yankee BEAT writer???

  287. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 12:20 am

    “I hate Tom Brady. He is a whiner and he has a sense of entitlement.”

    What just happened?

    My irony alarms jut went beserk…

  288. 7*7 April 2nd, 2010 at 12:20 am

    When are the Yanks gonna get rid of Randy Levine?

  289. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:21 am

    “Matthews is the Yankee BEAT writer???”

    Actually, he’s ESPN’s Yankee “Beat Down” hack.

  290. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 2nd, 2010 at 12:21 am

    Oh, I see. Matthews will be smearing the airwaves with his black bile.

  291. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 2nd, 2010 at 12:22 am

    The thing about Matthews is, he’s not only full of some kind of derivative rage, he writes purple prose.

    And he thinks he writes well.

  292. Eric April 2nd, 2010 at 12:23 am

    The same Cowboys who have cage dancers in their new stadium?

  293. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:24 am

    Well, he apparently will be for ESPN NY – he was a columnist for Newsday (not just baseball).

    Johnette Howard’s piece on Joba was actually not bad, but I can already tell just glimpsing (couldn’t help it) at Matthews’ column that if I read it, I’d get ticked off. Yep, they were more lucky than good last year, lol.

    Bodh, Phil’s one awful start threw his #s out of whack. I still remember someone posting that Jim Palmer raved about Phil even though he was struggling; that says something. For some reason, people forget that Phil has had some outstanding starts, even his start in Texas last year. LOL Remember how he refused to shake Joe’s hand because he didn’t want to come out?

  294. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:24 am

    “Below is a breakdown of the 128 players that filed for salary arbitration in 2010″

    ———————-

    Tarheel,

    But the vast majority of those guys are not MVP candidate type players. And most if not again the vast majority are guys teams would not even want to lock up long term. Sergio Mitre for example.

  295. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 2nd, 2010 at 12:24 am

    Johnette Howard, Wally Matthews or Ian O’ Connor
    ====

    All of them have that “I’m superior to covering sports” complex.

  296. Joe April 2nd, 2010 at 12:25 am

    Hey stuckey -

    Now explain to me how ESPN Boston gets that homer Gorden Edes to cover the Sox while ESPN NY was assigned the Yankee hater Wally Matthews?

    Just another case of pro-Sox/Anti-Yankee bias.

  297. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:26 am

    Also, a number of the guys that are MVP type candidates never file for arbitration b/c they are already locked up.

  298. Y 27 April 2nd, 2010 at 12:26 am

    There is no discernible reason why the Yankees shouldn’t repeat as AL East champions, and since the East is the best division in baseball, carry that domination through to a second consecutive World Series appearance. They won 103 games last year; this year, between 95-100 is a reasonable expectation.

    And yet, there are two key words that must be added as a disclaimer to any prediction for a trek as long, eventful and demanding as a baseball season: “barring injury.” With Derek Jeter pushing 36, Posada pushing 39 and Rivera nudging up against 41, any or all of them could miss significant time with injuries.

    ———————

    Did Wally just copy that from Joel Sherman this morning?

  299. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 12:27 am

    “Yeah – I see Mr. Matthews already has an article up there about how the Yanks got “outrageously” lucky last year.”

    “Can the Yankees do it again?

    Of course they can. Any team with Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira, CC Sabathia and Mariano Rivera on its roster not only can win it all, but should.

    But will they do it again?

    That is the $200 million question.

    Last year, the Yankees not only had the best roster in baseball, they had maybe the best luck in the recent history of professional sports.”

    That bastard!!!!

  300. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:28 am

    The age thing will always be used against the Yankees while other teams with aging players are overlooked.

  301. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:28 am

    Most of the “experts” on ESPN NY are picking the Yanks to finish 2nd in the division, lol. They must be hoping that we get old really quickly. I respect the Rays and the Sox immensely, but I’m sorry – they are not as good as the Yankees.

  302. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 2nd, 2010 at 12:30 am

    Bodh, Phil’s one awful start threw his #s out of whack. I still remember someone posting that Jim Palmer raved about Phil even though he was struggling; that says something. For some reason, people forget that Phil has had some outstanding starts, even his start in Texas last year. LOL Remember how he refused to shake Joe’s hand because he didn’t want to come out?
    ======

    I was at that game. The lefties went to tow on him that day – cutter location was off.

    LOL. I do remember that. Best moment for me, though, has to be the Cleveland relief appearance. Comes in and cleans up for Clemens, 50,000 screaming “Huuuuuuuuuuuuuughesssss” and the kid has ice water in his veins. Gotta admit, I had tears in my eyes – my GF, too. We had waited so long for him – a stud pitching prospect from our system – there he was, dealin’ in the postseason, no less.

  303. becca April 2nd, 2010 at 12:30 am

    yeah, the Pettitte thing on Letterman was hysterical, just because Andy’s so NOT like that. Also, I’m technically Jewish, so him singing what he did was pretty funny.

    Still, Bif > that Andy guy ;)

  304. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:30 am

    Seriously Stuckey, you seem to have a problem with everything I write.

  305. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:31 am

    They’re not experts, at least when it comes to baseball. I have more respect for posters on this blog and other boards.

  306. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 12:32 am

    “Now explain to me how ESPN Boston gets that homer Gorden Edes to cover the Sox while ESPN NY was assigned the Yankee hater Wally Matthews?

    Just another case of pro-Sox/Anti-Yankee bias.”

    Joe, I have little interest in discussing the “bias” and to what level it exists.

    I simply can’t muster the energy to care. I like baseball. Browsing the internet to see writers say nice things about the Yankees and bad things about the Red Sox holds no interest to me.

    All I’ve been saying tonight is that WHATEVER the media has to say about the Red Sox does not give them a competitive advantage. Only bitter, biased, insecure fans of OTHER teams (chiefly their main rivals) can believe that.

  307. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:33 am

    Bodh, that Cleveland performance is what makes me know that this kid is special. I don’t know what happened last year, but I don’t believe Phil’s struggles had to do with pressure. Maybe he was tired – I hope that was all it was.

    By the way, I didn’t mean to question Joba’s desire – I guess that’s how it came off. As to how the Yankees handled him, well – though I think they made mistakes last year, I’m not going to blame them for Joba’s struggles. It didn’t help that Wang went down and Joba was pushed to the #4 spot, where they couldn’t manage his innings as well.

  308. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2010 at 12:33 am

    They pick the Yankees for second because they want you to talk about it.

    If they pick the Yankees for first, it’s not a story.

  309. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 12:34 am

    Betsy, you write a LOT (I mean a LOT lol) about Phil Hughes.

    I haven’t said a word.

    But yes, you do elicit a response from me occasionally. You seem (to me) to always find the dark cloud.

  310. Eric April 2nd, 2010 at 12:35 am

    So far, it looks just like the NYPost, NYDailyNews, NYTimes, Newsday, etc. looks every morning… some decent articles, some bad articles, some good articles.

    I’m sure they will have some good articles this season… it was too much to ask to all positive Yankees.

  311. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:36 am

    Just like that guy on XM Radio today picking the Yankees for third place with the Rays winning the division and the Sox the wildcard.

  312. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 12:37 am

    Joe

    You are not going to convince a child of a mans view.

    Everything plays a role in every aspect of life.

    The media is no different.

    Of course the media gives the Red Sox an advantage.

    When you have something as powerful as ESPN behind, you, how can you expect it not to help? :)

  313. Gator April 2nd, 2010 at 12:37 am

    lol

    I can’t believe Wally Matthews is covering the team now. Was Lupica not available?

  314. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:38 am

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=5044733

    Here’s Howard’s column on Joba. I was afraid before I read it that she was going to trash Cash, which I wouldn’t have agreed with. Again, though, I don’t think the Yankees have given up on Joba as a starter; it’s just that he’s going to have to show that he’s capable of it. Sherman wrote about Joba/Phil today and explained pretty well why the Yankees chose Phil (they trust him, four pitches, FB command).

  315. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:38 am

    Actually, I hope all the mediots pick the Yankees for third place because they’re wrong more than they’re right.

  316. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 12:39 am

    “When you have something as powerful as ESPN behind, you, how can you expect it not to help? ”

    Translation: “No, none of us can offer any convincing evidence of it, but so long as we can theorize, then it must be true.”

  317. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2010 at 12:39 am

    If they want something to diss the Yankees about, the targets should be Kay, Flaherty, Waldman, and Sterling. They stink, and the Yankees (and/or their affiliates) are dopes for hiring them.

  318. Patrick April 2nd, 2010 at 12:39 am

    I think a lot of sports writers get too caught up in the age of Posada, Jeter and Rivera. Even the advanced projection systems have been predicting a regression of all 3 for some time now. Granted, Jeter had a down 2008 but that was mostly due to a wrist injury and Posada missed a year but still, they are all at the top of their game.

    Most players their age lose something but what people fail to realize is, these are hall of famers we are talking about. Jeter and Mo are locks. Posada is on the edge. Guys with that kind of talent don’t follow traditional career paths.

    I am worried about those 3 possibly getting worse this year but not worried enough to expect any less than 97-100 wins.

  319. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 12:39 am

    Betsy is just concerned. It’s healthy to have questions and have concerns. No dark clouds.

  320. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:40 am

    Stuckey, we’re ALL talking about Phil (and Joba), so I have no idea what your point is.

    What dark cloud are you talking about ? Wally Matthews is a hack and I’m not the only one to say it – yet you pick on me. Look, I have absolutely ZERO intention of getting into an internet war with anyone. If you don’t like what I have to say, ignore me. I can promise you that I will not respond to insults because I am tired of fighting.

  321. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:40 am

    It’s too bad ESPN and the Post have a bad relationship due to the Erin Andrews thing because even though Sherman writes some things I don’t agree with, he’s ten times better than Wally Matthews.

  322. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 12:41 am

    Rich,

    I respect you quite a bit, but how can you insult Sterling???

    Sterling may be a terrible play by play guy, but he is without a doubt, the truest Yankee fan in the media. It’s refreshing to hear his enthusiasm towards the Yankees.

  323. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:42 am

    What exactly am I concerned about ? Dark clouds? Because I talked about what jerk Matthews is? Please point out any post of mine tonight where I express concern about the Yankees this year.

  324. Gator April 2nd, 2010 at 12:42 am

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=5045268

    Vazquez looking to erase 2004 memories

  325. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:43 am

    “If they want something to diss the Yankees about, the targets should be Kay, Flaherty, Waldman, and Sterling. They stink, and the Yankees (and/or their affiliates) are dopes for hiring them.”

    I agree with you there. How can the elite MLB team have such mediocre broadcasting talent.

  326. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2010 at 12:43 am

    “I think a lot of sports writers get too caught up in the age of Posada, Jeter and Rivera. ”

    There is no other plausible basis for writing a substantively negative article on the Yankees. There are so few comparables for these players that it’s not unreasonable to predict a decline. Sooner or later, they are going to be right.

  327. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:43 am

    Please – the stuff about Felix? Give me a break – I was saying that IF the Yankees traded their entire farm system for him, he’d be pitching with an older team behind him (which is true) and no backup in the minors.

  328. m April 2nd, 2010 at 12:44 am

    bodhi,

    I think it’s very difficult to draw the line between the Yankees mishandling Joba and him simply regressing.

    Hughes got hurt, recovered, hurt, recovered, starter, hurt, AAA, callup, AAA, starter, setup. And has made it intact (and hopefully unscathed).

    To some degree the pitcher is responsible for their own performance.

  329. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:44 am

    “Sterling may be a terrible play by play guy, but he is without a doubt, the truest Yankee fan in the media. It’s refreshing to hear his enthusiasm towards the Yankees.”

    I don’t want a Yankee fan in the media, I just want somebody that is fair and competent in their job.

  330. Nick in SF in San Rafael April 2nd, 2010 at 12:44 am

    “These kids will never win the Cy Young, batting titles, and mvp’s hoisted upon them.”

    Look down. Dustin Pedroia is waving.

  331. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:44 am

    Sherman is definitely better than Wally Matthews. Matthews belongs in the same group as Lupica and Madden (Harper too, sometimes).

  332. Giuseppe Franco April 2nd, 2010 at 12:45 am

    I’m no fan of Wally Mathews but those two paragraphs highlighted by Y 27 is not unreasonable by any means.

    The Yanks were fortunate last season on the injury front outside of A-Rod, Wang and Marte, especially when you consider the injuries they sustained in 2008 to Matsui, Posada, Joba, Pettitte, etc. etc.

    Let’s all hope that luck continues this season. If that happens, he’s right – another AL East title and possible championship is a reasonable expectation for this team.

  333. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:45 am

    I love Singleton; I loved Coney and I loved Kitty. Coney retired to be with his family, but Kitty wanted to come back; I’m sorry YES wouldn’t have him.

  334. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2010 at 12:46 am

    CR9

    He can’t see anymore.

  335. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 12:46 am

    “What dark cloud are you talking about ?”

    Betsy, you acknowledge you’re a worrier, or have I misunderstood that?

    “Wally Matthews is a hack and I’m not the only one to say it – yet you pick on me.”

    He might be. But the piece you were referring to was not a hackneyed piece. It struck me a pretty reasonable.

    “Look, I have absolutely ZERO intention of getting into an internet war with anyone. If you don’t like what I have to say, ignore me. I can promise you that I will not respond to insults because I am tired of fighting.”

    Betsy, I respond what draws a response from me. I’m neither seeking nor avoiding anything in particular. I think its best you take your own advice and I mean that genuinely and with good intent. I’ll reply or not to what I like, and you do the same, and we shouldn’t have any problems…

  336. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 2nd, 2010 at 12:46 am

    Betsy – Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:33 am
    Bodh, that Cleveland performance is what makes me know that this kid is special. I don’t know what happened last year, but I don’t believe Phil’s struggles had to do with pressure. Maybe he was tired – I hope that was all it was.

    By the way, I didn’t mean to question Joba’s desire – I guess that’s how it came off. As to how the Yankees handled him, well – though I think they made mistakes last year, I’m not going to blame them for Joba’s struggles. It didn’t help that Wang went down and Joba was pushed to the #4 spot, where they couldn’t manage his innings as well.
    =====

    He was visibly tired. And in Hughes’ case, he doesn’t succumb to external pressures, I think he’s a bit of a perfectionist, and sometimes he’s a little tightly wound.

    It started before the absolutely bizarre schedule they had him on. It began in ST. Agh, can’t have this conversation again (no offense). Don’t want agita before going to sleep. :D.

    We’re psyched as hell about April 15th start. I do not like the on and off schedule however, even though it’s de rigeur for young starters at the back end in April. Have a good one.

  337. Jake April 2nd, 2010 at 12:47 am

    Trading Joba and Montero doesn’t really deplete our team. Yeah it sucks losing Montero, but you can find hitting talent on the market. Plus we have Romine who is a darn fine player in his own right.

    Joba and Montero I would do for King Felix

    Not Hughes though.

  338. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 2nd, 2010 at 12:47 am

    “Him” in second graph is Joba, obviously, not Hughes. Nite all.

  339. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 12:48 am

    “I don’t want a Yankee fan in the media, I just want somebody that is fair and competent in their job.”

    What a joke. Only from a Yankees fan. LMAO

    There is hardly anybody in the media that is fair and competent. Not even our own broadcaster Michael Kay is. He tears down the Yankees every opportunity he gets. And he’s is a D bag.

    We actually have a pro Yankees biased guy, and you want fair and competent. LMAO again!

  340. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:49 am

    Actually, your the joke just read your paranoid rambles.

  341. m April 2nd, 2010 at 12:49 am

    lol, I forgot about peddy. But I was really referring to the latest & greatest. Lowrie, Tazawa, Bowden, et al.

    But to a certain degree, Gammons’ fascination with all things Sox is understandable. I would imagine he watches a lot of the Sox. How often does he travel to other teams camps?

  342. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 12:49 am

    Betsy

    I did not see anything you wrote. I just saw you getting picked on by the child, and figured it was for no reason.

  343. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:50 am

    Not a good start by Wallace Matthews. Poorly constructed article and several mistakes.

    “All season long, the injury bug was out of town. Aside from A-Rod, not one of their regulars missed a significant portion of playing time.”

    -They lost their #2 starter for the entire season.
    -Lost their starting RF for the entire season
    -Posada missed 3 weeks
    -Also, great luck for the Yankees to lose their best player for a month

    “Despite a subpar second half, when the Yankees needed him most, Andy Pettitte did what he always does in the postseason. He won, four out of five times out.”

    Pettitte had a 3.31 ERA in the 2nd half

    “And Joe Girardi, the semi-new manager, had such a golden touch all year it seemed as if he could have reformed health care, righted the economy and ended the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in his spare time, if anyone had bothered to ask him.”

    So you mean Joe Girardi is a good manager? Shocking. How lucky of the Yankees to hire a good manager.

    “Sabathia, whose delay in signing fueled rumors he was reluctant to play in New York, pitched like a Cy Young Award winner.”

    Real lucky of the Yankees to sign a Cy Young winner and have him actually pitch like one.

    “Hitting behind A-Rod, Teixeira had an MVP-caliber season.”

    Tex having an MVP-caliber season? That can’t be. Must be luck. It is not like he is one of the best players in baseball right now and in his prime.

    “Even Swisher, pressed into everyday service when Xavier Nady went down, proved to be a revelation.”

    So, what you mean is Swisher is a good player and 2008 was an aberration which Cashman correctly identified?

    “And Rivera went 51 appearances between blown saves, from April 24 to Sept. 18.”

    Quite lucky of Rivera to go that long without blowing saves. Being the best closer in baseball history probably had nothing to do with it.

    “Is it conceivable, or even possible, that such a confluence of happy events could occur again in one Yankees lifetime, let alone in consecutive seasons?

    Plain logic and common sense tells you it can’t.”

    A confluence of great players playing great and good players playing good? Logic and common sense. Right.

  344. TR 31 April 2nd, 2010 at 12:50 am

    Simple – The Yankees are overprotecive of their brand and won’t hire someone who is even remotely objective, a la Cone.

    If you believe Sherman, the Yankees took offense to him saying “The Yankees need to turn it around soon or they might start to make things tough on thesmelves as far as the postseason is concerned” or something along those lines. I mean really, that is redicolous.

    Kay, Flarhety, Waldman, Sterling are all YES men (no pun intended).

    Look at Keith Hernandez, he speaks his mind on everything. He even talked about his contract uncerainty with SNY on the airm yet they don’t care.

    The Yankees are a sensitive bunch.

  345. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2010 at 12:50 am

    CR9

    I like Singleton, Leiter, and Cone. I am really disappointed that he wont’ be back on YES. O’Neill’s good too, but he isn’t on that much.

  346. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 12:52 am

    You had me at “fair and competent”, like that actually exists in the media!!! LOL

    The only people I can think that are fair and competent, are Sam and Chad. Not one slanted article since their takeover!!!

  347. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:52 am

    GF, true, but the rest of the article goes on to explain how everything last year was just due to some sort of magic spell that Girardi cast on the team. Here’s more from the article:

    ********************

    Sabathia, whose delay in signing fueled rumors he was reluctant to play in New York, pitched like a Cy Young Award winner. Hitting behind A-Rod, Teixeira had an MVP-caliber season. Whatever A.J. Burnett didn’t provide on the mound he made up for with his postgame Soupy Sales routine, creating a new Yankees tradition. Who says there’s no pie-ing in baseball?

    Even Swisher, pressed into everyday service when Xavier Nady went down, proved to be a revelation. And just about every move Girardi made turned out to be the right one, from flip-flopping Johnny Damon and Jeter at the top of the lineup to carefully rationing A-Rod’s playing time, to gambling on using a three-man starting rotation throughout the postseason.

    It helped immensely that all season long, Girardi was dealing with a full deck. Jeter and Damon, both 35, played 153 and 143 games, respectively. Swisher appeared in 150, Hideki Matsui, despite two aching knees, played 142. Teixeira played 156 and Robinson Cano missed just one game all year.

    And every one of them performed at or near peak expectations. Jeter rebounded from a so-so 2008 to hit .334. Damon hit 24 home runs, matching his career high. Despite a horrible April, Teixeira (.292-39-122) posted his best numbers since 2005.

    And Rivera went 51 appearances between blown saves, from April 24 to Sept. 18.

    Is it conceivable, or even possible, that such a confluence of happy events could occur again in one Yankees lifetime, let alone in consecutive seasons?

    Plain logic and common sense tells you it can’t.

    *****

    Um, CC IS a Cy Young award winner and Tex is an MVP type of player; no fortuitious circumstances there. Joe made the right call on Damon and Jeter; chalk that up to smart managerial strategy, not luck. His comment earlier about the Sox being a non-factor is ridiculous; they were a non-factor because the Yankees were much better than they were. It’s a pathetic article.

  348. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:52 am

    CR, I apologize for being defensive. Thanks for defending me!

  349. vtred April 2nd, 2010 at 12:53 am

    The fact that Hal still employs Levine even after the stadium was completed does not speak well of him.

  350. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:53 am

    CR9,

    Sucking up to Sam and Chad won’t get you anywhere.

  351. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 2nd, 2010 at 12:55 am

    Stuckey, yeah I’m a worrier, lol – I don’t pretend not to be. However, while I may be concerned about individual things, I have total confidence in this team; I couldn’t be more confident.

    I do talk about Phil a lot, but let’s face it – the battle for the 5th spot was the most intriguing story in camp. This is a kid who’s been hyped and has had his frustrations in his careere. I enjoy talking about him because I’m excited about his potential. He’s not the only guy I talk about, but he has been a topic of conversation amongst everyone.

  352. Eric April 2nd, 2010 at 12:55 am

    Why can’t we hire some broadcasters with talent like Jerry Remy, Don Orsillo, Dennis Eckeserly, etc.?

    Or guys like Gary Cohn, Hernandez, Darling?

    Sad that a team like the Mets who are an after-ran organization can find 3 good broadcasters and we can’t. People in baseball would jump through hoops to get a chance to commentate a Yankee game, yet we settle for “safe” mediocrity.

  353. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2010 at 12:55 am

    “Hitting behind A-Rod, Teixeira had an MVP-caliber season.”

    I thought A-Rod hit behind Teix?

  354. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 12:55 am

    Rich

    I guess our broadcast team isn’t so bad, but I long for the games where Michael Kay isn’t doing them. He brings everyone around him down a notch.

    Reading the “only missed ARod for a month,” I guess there’s no need for me to go to ESPN New York. Continuing the trend of ESPN, ESPNBoston, and NESN (isnt that redundant to say all 3?) How about NESPNBoston! :)

  355. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:56 am

    Speaking of.

  356. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2010 at 12:56 am

    Kay has criticized the Yankees a lot. No one in the NY media was tougher on Torre than him.

  357. LGY - Child Prodigy/GB7's Bestest Buddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:57 am

    Rich,

    Ha. I missed that one. How do you launch ESPN NY with mistakes like that?

  358. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 12:57 am

    “Browsing the internet to see writers say nice things about the Yankees and bad things about the Red Sox holds no interest to me.”

    “Sterling may be a terrible play by play guy, but he is without a doubt, the truest Yankee fan in the media. It’s refreshing to hear his enthusiasm towards the Yankees. We actually have a pro Yankees biased guy, and you want fair and competent.”

    So this pretty much illustrates what tonight has been about. One’s view is shaped by his admitted desire to see the media praise the Yankees. One’s view is shaped by a lack if passion about how the media treats the Yanks and Sox.

    Guess which one is liable to be more objective…?

  359. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2010 at 12:57 am

    Kay’s problem is that his obnoxious, tedious, and ridiculously pedantic.

  360. Yank April 2nd, 2010 at 12:57 am

    Why not turn Hank into a broadcaster? He’s not doing much these days and might be entertaining.

  361. Nick in SF in San Rafael April 2nd, 2010 at 12:58 am

    We’re lucky that CC pitched like a Warren Spahn Award winner — again! :mad:

  362. Jay April 2nd, 2010 at 12:59 am

    “No one in the NY media was tougher on Torre than him.”

    I’m sure the Yankees didn’t mind. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if Levine told him to be extra hard on Torre. The Yankees brass had no love for Torre the last 5-6 years.

  363. crawdaddy April 2nd, 2010 at 12:59 am

    “Kay’s problem is that his obnoxious, tedious, and ridiculously pedantic”

    And he has a sports talk show which feads into the above.

  364. m April 2nd, 2010 at 12:59 am

    Copy and paste that article into a word doc and save it.

    Guaranteed it’ll be “updated” in the a.m.

  365. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 1:02 am

    Stuckey

    Name me just ONE objective sportwriter outside of this blog, and I’ll laugh at you!!

    It just doesn’t exist. Everyone has their bias. There is no such thing as objective. All these writers have their personal biases, and it affects their judgment and writing.

    I have found that Sam and Chad actually try doing their job with professionalism (and objectivity), probably in an attempt to further their careers.

    Little do they know that all they have to do is insult the Yankees with vigor, and their careers will be furthered faster than ole fat Pete can down a Mickey Ds triple cheeseburger.

  366. m April 2nd, 2010 at 1:02 am

    I don’t know if I can bring myself to watch that video on the age of the Yankees. It might be close to the truth.

    Why don’t people talk about the age of the Red Sox? Wake? Varitek? Papi? Lowell? Cameron?

  367. Giuseppe Franco April 2nd, 2010 at 1:02 am

    I really don’t get you, CR9.

    You’d rather have a complete and bumbling fool in the media (like a Hawk Harrelson type) as long as he’s going to put a positive Yankee spin on everything?

    That doesn’t make any sense to me.

    I’ll take the smart baseball fan and competent guy who covers the team fairly and will criticize the team/manager/GM when it is warranted.

    Guys like Sweeny Murti, Tyler Kepner, Chad, etc. etc.

  368. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 1:03 am

    “Stuckey, yeah I’m a worrier, lol – I don’t pretend not to be. However, while I may be concerned about individual things, I have total confidence in this team; I couldn’t be more confident.”

    Never implied otherwise.

    I’m an honest person Betsy 0 when I see you go all white (metaphorically speaking) about Tex being hit to the point where the next day you express “concern” about Sabathia batting, my left eye starts twitching…. lol

    “I do talk about Phil a lot”

    Betsy, in all good fun, a WHOLE lot… :-)

  369. Banks April 2nd, 2010 at 1:03 am

    Tino is an AWFUL color analyst.

  370. U-Turn April 2nd, 2010 at 1:04 am

    Flarhety will do the series no one cares about… like Yankees/As, Yanks/Royals, etc.

    The good teams will be Singleton, sprinkled in with some Leiter and O’Neil maybe 20 games each.

  371. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 1:08 am

    “Name me just ONE objective sportwriter outside of this blog, and I’ll laugh at you!!”

    Wow… talking about whiffing on the point. I wasn’t talking about sportswriters.

    “I have found that Sam and Chad actually try doing their job with professionalism (and objectivity), probably in an attempt to further their careers.”

    Little do they know that all they have to do is insult the Yankees with vigor, and their careers will be furthered faster than ole fat Pete can down a Mickey Ds triple cheeseburger.”

    Ah, so Chad and Sam are going about their careers stupidly?

    Nice…

  372. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2010 at 1:09 am

    I didn’t know that Mike Stanton was coaching Don Bosco:

    http://www.northjersey.com/spo.....coach.html

  373. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 1:09 am

    GF

    There are enough media members who will lash out against the Yankees at the earliest chance.

    The ONLY one who has a pro-Yankee bias is Sterling. That’s why I dont get the criticism of him.

    Let me ask you a question. And I’ll preface it with, I also enjoy good baseball knowledge when watching the games on YES or MY9. But do you enjoy hearing Michael Kay or any other guy when Kay is not doing the games, yell as loud as they can, almost with excitement, at the success of the other team?

    I love listening to Don Orsillo and Jerry Remy (the 2 homers) get upset when a homer is hit. “That ball is high, deep, and gone” in the lowest possible voice signals that they actually care about their team winning or losing.

  374. m April 2nd, 2010 at 1:09 am

    O’neill’s a fun guy and all. But he doesn’t really offer much as far as baseball nuts & bolts is concerned.

    Kay will have leading questions, and O’neill will say something like, “Well, yeah..” and agree.

    Otherwise, he sounds like he’s kicking back in the backyard cooking burgers or something. Don’t get me wrong, he’s funny as can be.

    But I can appreciate Flash as the total opposite. Lots of stuff stored in that cubical head of his.

  375. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 1:12 am

    Stuckey

    Nice twist!

    Chad and Sam are going about their careers PROFESSIONALLY (which is to be admired).

    They would undoubtedly, though, have quicker and more success going the route of fat Abe and his Yankee bashing ways.

    By the way, anybody ever read Abe anymore? I dont see him calling out Red Sox players like he did Yankees players. Where are the steroid jokes about Orteeezy? Huh, how nice it must be for him to do his dream job (stinksniffing the Red Sox with reckless abandon)!!!!

  376. d-town April 2nd, 2010 at 1:12 am

    Broadcast teams better than the Yankees:

    Boston – Remy/Orsello
    Baltimore – Throne/Pamer
    Tampa – Magrane/Kennedy
    Twins – Brener/Blyleven
    Chi Sox – Harrelson/Stone
    Mets – Cohen/Hernandez/Darling
    Angels – Rojas/Hudler
    Atlanta- Chip Carey/Smoltz
    LAD – Scully/Anyone
    Nats – Carpenter/Ron Dibble
    Padres – Enberg/Gwynn
    Cubs – Kasper/Brenly

    I’m sure there are more, but those are just a few of them

  377. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2010 at 1:13 am

    m

    My problem with Flaherty is that he seems to be genetically incapable of saying anything even remotely critical of anyone (Yankee or non-Yankee) no matter how badly they mess up. The cardinal rule for ex-jocks is to speak the truth no matter what.

  378. 7*7 April 2nd, 2010 at 1:15 am

    Flash has a ton of knowledge… he is just boring in his delivery.

    But he knows baseball… if you care about substance over flash (no pun intended(, you should have no problem with him.

  379. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 1:15 am

    “Chad and Sam are going about their careers PROFESSIONALLY (which is to be admired).

    They would undoubtedly, though, have quicker and more success going the route of fat Abe and his Yankee bashing ways.”

    Jeez, I was kidding, but you’re actually serious?

  380. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 1:15 am

    Are you serious?

    Chip Caray, Brenly, the former team of Hudler/Physioc, Magrane/Kennedy are TERRIBLE!!!

    Remy and Orsillo beat anybody in baseball, maybe not Scully.

  381. m April 2nd, 2010 at 1:16 am

    Rich,

    He’s an ex-player. An ex-fringe-player. I can understand he’s why he’s like that.

    And everyone loves Singleton, but man he can put a girl to sleep.

  382. Giuseppe Franco April 2nd, 2010 at 1:17 am

    # Banks April 2nd, 2010 at 1:03 am

    Tino is an AWFUL color analyst.

    ———–

    Agreed 100%. Martinez was on ESPN a few years back and he was a terrible analyst.

    I was a huge fan of Cone and I’m sorry he’s not returning this season. I thought he did a great job last season in limited duty and was very entertaining.

    I like Leiter a lot for the same reason. Singleton is the best play-by-play guy they’ve got.

    O’Neill is fine but the constant jokes [from Kay] about food is getting old. Flaherty is horrifically bland. Kay is a jackass but not because he criticizes the team on his radio show. I just think he sucks and his schtick is obnoxious.

  383. Kevin April 2nd, 2010 at 1:17 am

    Excellent post BT 34. I couldn’t agree more. And I don’t think it’s a surprise that I love all the teams on your first list, and completely hate all the teams on the 2nd. Well said.

  384. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2010 at 1:18 am

    m

    The game itself is supposed to keep you up!!!!!!!!!! ;)

  385. m April 2nd, 2010 at 1:18 am

    Which Boston guy is it that I can’t stand? Sounds like he’s got miles of plumbing in his nose? I think he does the national games sometimes.

    He’s not a homer per se. But that voice!

  386. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 1:18 am

    “Remy and Orsillo beat anybody in baseball, maybe not Scully.”

    Yet another victim of the Rex Sox media machine, believing exactly what the machine wants you to believe.

    So sad…

  387. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 1:20 am

    Orsillo does TBS games.

  388. David April 2nd, 2010 at 1:20 am

    Pete turned this blog into what it was.

    He was the Stick/Showalter of the blogs. Chad/Sam inherited a beast. But it was Pete who started it.

    In fact, Pete was the one who created the sports blog as we know it. He had the first successful one, and not one professional blogger in NY has even come remotely close to his success, despite having a much more prestigious paper as a backdrop.

  389. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 2nd, 2010 at 1:21 am

    m April 2nd, 2010 at 12:44 am
    bodhi,

    I think it’s very difficult to draw the line between the Yankees mishandling Joba and him simply regressing.

    Hughes got hurt, recovered, hurt, recovered, starter, hurt, AAA, callup, AAA, starter, setup. And has made it intact (and hopefully unscathed).

    To some degree the pitcher is responsible for their own performance.
    ======

    It’s not hard to draw the line between their mishandling and his regression – because their job is supposed to BEGIN when regression rears its head. There’s a lot of horizontal time when it comes to developing a young pitcher – and the Yankees don’t have time for that, clearly.

    Don’t have time for the messy young-starter-in-development gig. They have thrown up their hands on the starter thing a little too early in the game for me to think they know what the hell they’re doing.

    Here’s a guy with very little service time – he didn’t come ready-made and polished. He’s not SUPPOSED to have it all figured out.

    He pitches well in 2008, he has a big hiccup year and apparently that’s the end of the line for the Yankees, who don’t have the stomach for his messy business of developing starters.

    To the pen with ye!

    And not only do they make this decision – with the farcical “competition as a backdrop – they TELL THE WHOLE WORLD he’s done as a starter – except for the GM, who isn’t sure but seems fairly certain the velocity’s not going to return.

    For a guy who is 24, with 88.whatever Mil inning under his belt, and a bizarre FIRST season of starting, riddled with aborted apperances..the Yankees seem to speaking in an awful lot of absolutes.

    And if they’re indeed sitting on some information that he can’t physically handle starting, then why the circus of the “competition” – why the vacillation from Cashman on his role??

    Hey, maybe the Yankees are geniuses at this stuff – and the denouement will reveal the wisdom of their ways.

    I’m going to maintain a healthy skepticism in the mean time about that.

  390. Yank 97 April 2nd, 2010 at 1:22 am

    Scully is past his prime, IMO.

    He’s been replaced by Orsillo, Hawk, Cohen.

  391. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 1:22 am

    Stuckey

    LOL. That was good.

    They are such homers, and they actually truly care for their team. I just wish the Yankees commentators would feel upset when say, Mariano gives up a walkoff to Ichiro, as Orsillo and Remy would if Pap did the same!!

    Like GF said, Kay and his shtick. He cares more about being an arrogant D bag and having a recognizable shtick, he’s truly terrible!!

  392. d-town April 2nd, 2010 at 1:23 am

    Joe Miller on Giants games isin’t half bad either. He sucks on ESPN though.

  393. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2010 at 1:23 am

    You’re seriously comparing Pete to Stick?

    What?

  394. becca April 2nd, 2010 at 1:23 am

    did someone really say the ChiSox team is better than YES? Wow

  395. m April 2nd, 2010 at 1:24 am

    Pete was awesome. His new gig hasn’t been a big hit, but maybe in time? Or maybe the Boston fans have other things in their lives besides baseball? :P

  396. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 1:25 am

    Pete was awesome, at maintaining his weight of 400 lbs. :)

  397. 7*7 April 2nd, 2010 at 1:25 am

    Michael Kay is the Donovan McNabb of sports broadcasting. Except he doesn’t dance in the opposing teams’ broadcaster’s box and pick up the phone after something exciting happens…

  398. Dave D. April 2nd, 2010 at 1:26 am

    Pete leaving LoHud was like Mulder, Hudson, Zito leaving Oakland. They thought they were headed for greener pastures, but not the case….

  399. STUCKEY [knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door] April 2nd, 2010 at 1:27 am

    “They are such homers, and they actually truly care for their team. I just wish the Yankees commentators would feel upset when say, Mariano gives up a walkoff to Ichiro, as Orsillo and Remy would if Pap did the same!!”

    I honestly can relate to this sentiment even a little bit.

    Why do you feel a need for the announcers to mirror YOUR feelings? When Rivera gives us a homer to Ichiro, it doesn’t even occur to me notice the tone of the announcers call.

  400. Eric April 2nd, 2010 at 1:30 am

    I was watching the Twins feed of that final game of that 4 game series and after we won, Blyleven said “Shoot, I never liked the Yankees anyway”.

    You want that type of analysis from your commentators?

  401. Giuseppe Franco April 2nd, 2010 at 1:30 am

    CR9,

    I don’t watch Yankee games to hear the announcer scream and yell with pro-Yankee excitement.

    I watch Yankee games hoping the announcers are competent (and entertaining) in addition to providing the inside info regarding the teams on the field.

    I’m not a fan of Sterling, either – Yankee homer or not.

    As I answered above, I can’t stand Kay. It has squat to do with his criticisms of the Yanks or his perceived excitement when the other team is doing well.

    I think he’s incompetent and obnoxious. I’ll take a guy like Jim Kaat, who is as smart as any analyst they’ve had the last 20 years. He’s also pro-Yankee, but will criticize them when warranted.

    Smart baseball people doing these games is more important than a bumbling fool who is Hawk Harrelson-esque.

    Hell, the vast majority of Sox fans can’t stand Hawk Harrelson.

  402. m April 2nd, 2010 at 1:34 am

    bodhi,

    Until someone can explain where the Yankees are hiding Joba’s “stuff”, I can’t be convinced they’ve ruined or even mishandled him.

  403. Nick in SF in Larkspur April 2nd, 2010 at 1:43 am

    Sure. It’s all in the game logs. :roll:

  404. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 1:44 am

    GF

    I understand. We have differing viewpoints.

    Stuckey

    It occurs to me, as it should to any Yankee fan watching, because when our team gives up a walkoff HR, I get angry. To hear our own home commentators go nuts over it (or for any HR, for that matter) is irritating and only gets me angrier.

    Then to listen to real commentators like Remy and Orsillo, who have the baseball knowledge that GF is interested in hearing, care for their team and get upset when things dont work out, makes me wish that our team had that.

    At one point last year, Remy came back to NESN to do a game as a guest (after overcoming cancer IIRC), he looked sick as a dog, white as a ghost, and he apologized to the Red Sox and the Sox fans because he had intended to be back sooner and was sorry the Red Sox were so far out in the standings.

    Almost like he thought that if had he gotten back sooner, he could have brought good luck to the Sox. And he was sorry for not being back sooner, though recovering from cancer.

    There’s a true fan.

  405. Giuseppe Franco April 2nd, 2010 at 1:46 am

    # m April 2nd, 2010 at 1:16 am

    Rich,

    He’s an ex-player. An ex-fringe-player. I can understand he’s why he’s like that.

    And everyone loves Singleton, but man he can put a girl to sleep.

    ———

    Did you hear the rather amusing line by Singleton the other day during the YES telecast?

    He was asked by Kay if he had ever participated in a fantasy baseball league.

    Singleton’s response was something like…“If and when I do have a fantasy – it won’t have anything to do with baseball.”

    Much to my surprise, that line didn’t get much of a response from Kay. It was total silence for a few seconds.

    Intentionally or unintentionally, that might have been the funniest thing Singleton has ever said on a broadcast.

  406. m April 2nd, 2010 at 1:47 am

    So. The espn new york site has a blog with marchand and matthews as their primary contributors.

    And the latest one is on…Joba.

    It’s an interesting parallel between Papelbon & Joba (yes, I understand that Papelbon closed in college). Still, it’s a little peak at why baseball executives make certain executive decisions even if they don’t make sense to the fans.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo.....s-papelbon

    Oh. And feel free to totally ignore marchand’s last sentence.

  407. Nick in SF in Larkspur April 2nd, 2010 at 1:48 am

    That reminds me of a quote from a Dallas Coybow — don’t remember which one — from long ago. He was asked if he ever dreamed the Cowboys would lose to the Bears by 40 points.

    He responded “No, I dream about girls.”

  408. bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes April 2nd, 2010 at 1:50 am

    m,

    The word “ruined” certainly is not mine. It’s a tad melodramatic.

    But some things are self-evident, and the Yankees, not just by the way they’ve operated on this thing but by their public discourse, don’t appear to even be united on their views on this guy.

    Why tell the world?

    Any way, I’m done. G’nite :).

  409. CR9 April 2nd, 2010 at 1:52 am

    Nite Bodhi!!

  410. Jerkface April 2nd, 2010 at 1:53 am

    Boston – Remy/Orsello
    Maybe, Orsello is good. Remy not so good.
    Baltimore – Throne/Pamer
    Not even close. Thorne is terrible, absolutely terrible.
    Tampa – Magrane/Kennedy
    HAHAHA no. Sorry, no. Kennedy is good. Magrane sounds like a muppet and is a horrible, horrible homer who complains for 20 innings after the umpires f up
    Twins – Brener/Blyleven
    Sure
    Chi Sox – Harrelson/Stone
    AHAHAHAHA no. Lord no. Can of corn put it on the board NOPE
    Mets – Cohen/Hernandez/Darling
    Fine.
    Angels – Rojas/Hudler
    No, also Hudler is gone.
    Atlanta- Chip Carey/Smoltz
    You already know Smoltz is good? Carey is terrible. Remember: LINE DRIVE- BASE HIT- … caught last year?
    LAD – Scully/Anyone
    No one is better than Vin Scully
    Nats – Carpenter/Ron Dibble
    No
    Padres – Enberg/Gwynn
    Padres are ok
    Cubs – Kasper/Brenly
    No

  411. m April 2nd, 2010 at 1:55 am

    bodhi,

    Yes! “Ruined” is melodramatic! But that’s all we heard last week. But not by you of course. ;)

  412. Nick in SF in Larkspur April 2nd, 2010 at 1:55 am

    Goodbye! Home Run!

  413. Jerkface April 2nd, 2010 at 2:03 am

    The Yankees have an upper tier broadcast. Hate him all you want, but Kay has a great voice and imparts excitement for both teams and calls a fair game. Singleton is a great second voice.

    The color guys are hit or miss, but Leiter and Cone were good. O’Neil makes for a fun broadcast, and Flaherty tries to impart wisdom even if he is a little clinical.

    Red Sox, Rangers, and Dodgers are good broadcasts on the same level.

  414. Nick in SF in Larkspur April 2nd, 2010 at 2:04 am

    No love for Krukow and Kuiper?

    Grab some pine, meat!

  415. Jerkface April 2nd, 2010 at 2:06 am

    I actually almost never hear the SF giants feed. So I can’t comment.

  416. becca April 2nd, 2010 at 2:07 am

    from that list of broadcasters -

    Boston’s are great
    Baltimore is decent but insanely biased
    Tampa is really biased but okay overall
    Twins are okay
    ChiSox are… just… I kind of like Hawk BECAUSE he’s SO bad, but he’s terrible!
    Mets are great
    Angels – I like the guy on MLB Network that’s going there, but the other guys are bad (I don’t know exactly which one died)
    Atlanta – like someone said, we don’t know if Smoltz will be good, and Chip Caray is SO INCREDIBLY HORRIBLE Smoltz could be Scully-esque and that booth would still be terrible
    Dodgers – Scully rules and is better than anyone else
    Nats – Dibble sucks
    Padres – Awful
    And I love the Cubs’ broadcasters, from what I’ve heard.

    At least you didn’t include Seattle… they’re awful.

  417. Phil the Thrill April 2nd, 2010 at 2:09 am

    Having Wally Matthews cover the Yanks is a show of utter contempt from the bozos at ESPN.

  418. Nick in SF in Larkspur April 2nd, 2010 at 2:10 am

    Kruk and Kuipe are kind of goofy (Krukow provides almost all the goof). The broacasters shuffle a bit depending on whether the came is on the sports channel or the broadcast channel. The best combination is when it’s Jon Miller and anyone else.

  419. becca April 2nd, 2010 at 2:11 am

    also, my impression on the ones that weren’t mentioned that I’ve heard:

    Cleveland – seem pretty good/professional
    Oakland – ditto
    Rangers – homers, but hilarious and fun to listen to
    Cardinals – pretty much the same
    Brewers – entertaining and informative
    Marlins – INSANE homers
    Phillies – REALLY INSANE HOMERS
    Diamondbacks – terrible, shut up Mark Grace
    Reds – REALLY terrible

  420. m April 2nd, 2010 at 2:13 am

    I like the SF radio guys. Yes, that includes Jon Miller.

    To me, a professional booth won’t disparage the opposing team. The Yankees score well here. Elsewhere, there aren’t many professional booths out there.

  421. Jerkface April 2nd, 2010 at 2:25 am

    Joe Engel (sp?) the Baltimore Radio guy sounds exactly like Jon Miller.

    The Padres lost out on Matt Vasgerian. The 18 inning padres game was EPIC with Matt in the booth. I think he and the color guy order a pizza at one point. Also their coverage of the games in china were equally amazing, being that they did it from SD via satellite so most of their commentary was about how the camera guy in china sucked.

    Becca has good points.

  422. Jerkface April 2nd, 2010 at 2:26 am

    I forgot Toronto. They suck. They really hate the yankees.

    A baltimore or Toronto game done by the opposing team at my house is a drinking game for whenever they mention payroll

  423. Nick in SF in Larkspur April 2nd, 2010 at 2:38 am

    Joe Angel (sp?) broadcasted for the Giants for one season. He was like a Jon Miller impersonator minus the wit. None of the others seemed to like him much or buy into his shtick. And then he was gone.

  424. Pete Hamberabe April 2nd, 2010 at 6:30 am

    How is a guy supposed to survive on Dunkin’ Donuts and lousy chowdah ? It’s no fun trying to squeeze through a tiny matchbox Bahhstin clubhouse.

  425. Doreen - 2010 GTLU April 2nd, 2010 at 7:25 am

    Good conversation last night, guys.

    My two cents on Keith Hernandez. I’m not so positive on him as I had been. The Mets broadcast team has a good rapport, they blend well with each other. But Hernandez can be a real pain and a little self-centered, if Ronnie isn’t there to temper it. They do have games where it’s just two guys, with Darling or Hernandez being given a series off. It’s only when the 3 of them are there that it works well.

    I think we’re very critical of our own broadcasters because we see/hear them a lot. But I do like that the Yankees people are professional in that they don’t exhibit overboard homerism and they don’t bash the opposing teams. I love Ken Singleton – he’s unflappable and I like the tone of his voice. I didn’t like Cone because of his voice, but I did like his insights. Flaherty is getting better, but he needs to pep up his delivery a bit. O’Neill feels like comic relief, but on the rare occasion that he gets into it, he’s a good analyst. I like Al Leiter – smart, decent voice, passionate. The few times I’ve heard Tino this spring, I like the upbeat quality he brings, but I’ll wait to see how it goes. Kay is Kay. What can you do? Sometimes I like him; sometimes I hate him. I do get a feeling of relief when he is not doing a series.

    I miss Jim Kaat and I really miss Bobby Murcer. In fact Murcer was a “homer” in the best sense. He loved the Yankees and it was obvious, but never ever obnoxious.

    The radio team? I don’t listen to games on radio a lot. But I gotta say, I hate how almost everything that happens on the field is somehow a tie in to an advertisement. Frankly, I don’t know that anyone would be able to focus on the game under those circumstances. And Sterling is a rambler. But I’ll bet you’ll all miss him when he’s gone. ;)

  426. mlear2 April 2nd, 2010 at 11:49 am

    I enjoy the games more when Michael Kay is broadcasting. In fact, I enjoy those games more than any others. He is a very personable guy, he’s fun to listen to.

Leave a comment below


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581