The view from behind the plate
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Apr 05, 2010 
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Jorge Posada is one of those people who usually makes it easy to tell what he’s thinking or feeling. Unlike his buddy, Derek Jeter, Posada isn’t afraid to show when he’s disappointed. It’s just who he is.
Last night, Posada was frustrated. One game into the season obviously isn’t a time to be calling teammates out or getting too worked up about anything, really, but it was obvious in talking to Posada that he felt at least a little bit of exasperation over the Yankees coughing up a big lead when their ace, CC Sabathia, was on the mound.
I don’t know if the edge in Posada’s voice will come over well on the audio and this was far from “Angry Jorge.” That said, Posada’s short, clipped answers when he’s asked about the pitchers (particularly the relievers) certainly felt indicative of frustration when listening to them live. Check out the clip below.
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For what it’s worth, Posada said the passed ball from Damaso Marte was NOT a cross-up (even if it looked that way) but was just symbolic of how wild Marte was. At the very least, Posada could be happy with his offensive start to the season – 3-for-4 with a homer, although he admitted that when he made contact on the home run ball he “thought it was going foul.”
Jorge should be frustrated. The pen was not good at all. The passed ball wasn’t pretty but that what happens when a catcher has no clue where the pitcher is going to put the ball.
For that matter, I don’t think marte knew where it was going either.
repost
SJ44
If I can be completely honest, you should probably just ignore crusher. And should have ignored Dan last night.
I really enjoy your posts and I think we’re getting robbed of some good, solid discourse when the trolls get your attention and the attention of other posters.
Having said that, I agree with your analysis of the Cano play and thought the same thing. Drew made an amazing play on the ball and Robbie would have been out no matter how hard he ran.
Everything last night broke the wrong way, but our team showed a lot of positive things. You can’t expect the bullpen to be lights out coming out of Spring training, but everyone looked decent besides Marte. Without Fenway, there’s no way Pedroia or Youkilis get the double and the homerun.
Pretty easy to understand the frustration. Four hours of that crap can wear on a catcher.
Jorge should be frustrated with himself. He was really bad behind the plate last night. There is no excuse for that passed ball.
I didn’t think Jorge sounded that bad and I’m glad he’s frustrated as that was a frustrating game. Blowing big leads against Beckett, against a team that is not supposed to be that great offensively, is a bad job. I am one that doesn’t think the Sox need a great offense to win as they have fantastic pitching; Cameron had a great at bat against CC. They could be a pesky offense rather than great, but that’s all they need. In any case, I’m fine with what Jorge said.
“if the yankees and red sox played every game of a 162 game schedule with this year’s teams, i think the yankees would win about 53% and the red sox about 47%. ”
Last night the yankees probability of winning the game was 49%.
“Last night the yankees probability of winning the game was 49%.”
No it was -100 %
Patrick – are you serious? neither of the passed balls were his fault… the only reason they weren’t wild pitches is because Posada got his glove on them before they reached the dirt. i didn’t realize that he was spiderman back there…
If anyone should be knocked, it’s Swisher. He was brutal in the field and at the plate….
Percentages really mean nothing when the game gets going. The Yankees had knocked Beckett around – they should have won that game. They played badly and the Sox came back; it was a frustrating loss.
From the previous thread:
CB-
The point isn’t whether Cano should have tried for a double. The point is that Cano wasn’t in position for a double if something good had happened, for instance Drew doesn’t catch the ball off the wall cleanly. He ought to have run full out from the start, anything else is just a post hoc excuse.
Tom B – April 5th, 2010 at 11:12 am
Patrick ? are you serious? neither of the passed balls were his fault? the only reason they weren?t wild pitches is because Posada got his glove on them before they reached the dirt. i didn?t realize that he was spiderman back there?
************************
I think they need Dr. Octupus back there. One glove for each of his 8 arms.
Didn’t see much of the game other than a couple of the games. Since it’s only game 1 it’s not a big deal except highlighting some possible issues. I never believed and still don’t that Gardner is a regular everyday outfielder. I’m hoping that the bullpen isn’t going to be as ugly as they were last night.
Joba the saga continues, lets hope it was just bad Joba out there and he can get into a good place.
Ray I actually have loved listening to Morgan gush about Cano. He probably does favor 2B, but he thinks that Robby is the absolute bomb. I hooked onto it when I was taking a lot of heat for singing Robby?s defensive praises (again my perspicacity, Doreen! ha ha ha) . I called it before I heard Morgan talk about it, but I figured that I wasn?t in bad company if an HOF 2B saw what I was seeing!
Doreen, I think that the fenway bandbox and its favorability to its players isn?t given nearly the attention it should be! When some Yankee fans say we shouldn?t be using the HFA of fenway as an excuse for the Suxers winning, all I can say is this: only two teams had winning records on the road and the Suxers weren?t one of them. Yet they had an astounding winning record at home. That tells me everything I need to know, especially since the New York Yankees happened to be one of the two teams with a winning road record. Looks like they didn?t need the ?comfort? of the Stadium to get the job done!
Not as easy as you think to catch a 94 MPH fastball when its thrown 2 feet away from where its supposed to be…yes he should have caught it but Marte was missing his spots by a mile.
Posada should have gotten in front of that pitch. He doesn’t move behind the plate as well as he did and he was never great to begin with.
That said – Marte was truly awful last night.
He looked like either he was just not close to being ready for the season due to lack of work or that he was hurt.
Only one batter – but Ortiz himself looked terrible all game last night and Marte simply could not even throw the ball anywhere close to where it was supposed to be.
Park’s outing happen and it’s still unclear if he’s even going to pitch high leverage innings in the future for the team.
Marte did not look good in that brief outing.
Posadas passion is to be respected and is admirable.
Gary – Joba hasn’t found it yet this year, anyone expecting him to find it on the mound in Boston was only fooling themselves(i’m looking at you girardi).
Please, fellow posters, don’t tell me we’re going to segue from the “Cano is lazy” to the even more beaten to death “Posada sucks” argument????
The second passed ball was an easily catchable ball. Watch the replay and tell me he shouldn’t have caught it.
Has Posada EVER taken individual responsibility for messing up in any game EVER? I mean EVER? I believe I have heard just about every Yankee player, including Mo, pointing the finger at himself at one time or another but I swear that all I ever hear Jorge do is use thinly-veiled complaints about everyone but himself.
If anyone can remember any occasion where Jorge said he screwed up, please remind me about it.
Swisher might have had the worst AB of the night, hitting into the DP to kill a potential big inning. And his defense was awful, as well. He gets a lot of slack for being a pretty poor ballplayer.
While this is America, and everyone’s entitled to his/her opinion, some clearly are less concerned about making valid points or posing their opinions, and instead like to incite discourse. Like some recent political folks, but I’ll leave that alone.
Regardless, everyone, even the trolls, have valid points from time to time. The hard part is acknowledging the good points and ignoring the bs that may surround it. Usually, I ignore the trolls. We can agree to disagree, but some people are just annoying for the sake of being annoying.
It’s like they don’t get enough attention (or probably enough of something else), so they seek the attention here. Sad. So very sad.
I’m not putting it all on Posada. Marte, Park and Chamberlain were all pretty terrible. But the fact is, Posada should have caught the passed ball that allowed Youkilis to score.
“The point is that Cano wasn’t in position for a double if something good had happened, for instance Drew doesn’t catch the ball off the wall cleanly.”
Cano didn’t go into a home run trot when the ball left the bat.
If Drew doesn’t play it cleanly I don’t think Cano has that much trouble making it to second.
It’s true he should have been running harder out of the box. Every player should be running hard out of the box in that regard.
That said, Cano wasn’t loafing out of the box as was portrayed.
I didn’t think what he did was nearly as egregious as the amount of attention paid to it, especially by a national broadcast team.
Posada should have caught the ball but with Jorge you have to take the good with the bad, there’s a lot more good than bad. Same thing with Cano really, it’s just easier to remember to run hard out of the box every time than it is to catch a pitch you missed.
The only mistake that Swisher may have made last night would have been his choice of angles going after the triple. Instead of running straight to the line, he could have been giving ground while going to the line and getting to the ball before it got to the wall.
All in all, though, even with the bad pitching, a little offense from the 2, 3 and 4 hitters would have helped and NYY probably wins.
I still don’t get Robertson coming out; Joe likes to use all of his pen, that’s for sure and I don’t like that about him.
Jorge should be frustrated. The pitchers were bad. But I expect better outings next time. Good that Jorge was upset, but I hope he’s an equal opportunity guy.
Gary,
If you saw Gardner last night, you’d at least have an open mind. And it was more of the same from Joba. That good place you’re talking about? Gardner was there (except for the brain-fart throw to home).
very well put, on all counts
“But the fact is, Posada should have caught the passed ball that allowed Youkilis to score.”
True. Awful pitch, but Posada should have been able to hold that one.
Swisher is not a poor player, he just had a poor night. Of course, others had poor nights as well.
Swisher took what looked like a bad angle but there was no way to tell on TV whether a better angle would have prevented the triple anyway.
that was meant to be a response to Saint
Jorge’s past ball on Marte should have been caught and it was a pivital play. Jorge also did not block the plate on Cameron. Let’s face it, as a catcher, Jorge is a great DH.
Agree Betsy. Robertson had only thrown six pitches. Based on Park’s spring, I didn’t have a problem with him being in there. Thought it was an odd decision, but not a bad one.
Swisher might have had the worst AB of the night, hitting into the DP to kill a potential big inning. And his defense was awful, as well. He gets a lot of slack for being a pretty poor ballplayer.
———–
Yeah, because he’ll be the only player to hit into a double play this yr.
“Swisher took what looked like a bad angle but there was no way to tell on TV whether a better angle would have prevented the triple anyway.”
I disagree with that. Youkilis is not fast and there is no way he’s going to chance a triple in that situation if Swisher keeps the ball in front of him.
Youkilis had one triple all of last year. He has 10 triples for his entire career.
Swisher made a very poor defensive play on that ball. He really misread it.
But it’s a defensive play that’s not as obvious as the one’s people tend to see and focus on like Gardner’s terrible throw.
The Yankees will never win with that scrub Posada catching. I don’t care how many 3 – 4, 2 rbi nights he has. His bat will never make up for his awful defense. Oh wait….they won the title last yr with him catching??? Never mind then.
The second passed ball wasn’t even an awful pitch. It was way off location-wise but it was an easily catchable ball.
I’m not ripping Posada, he certainly helped more than he hurt last night. I’m simply stating the facts.
I think it was just a bad game, poor play in the field, bad middle relief, missed opportunites at the plate. Plenty of blame to go around rather than picking on any one player. What’s important is how well they bounce back. I know the players wish they were playing agin today rather than sitting out a day.
Yeah it was a terrible route by Swisher.
I hate having this sunday night game as our opener. We are going to stew over these little mistakes for the next two days. Arggggg
Frank, it’s not that I object to Park being brought into the game, but Robertson had done a fine job. Joe is not perfect. He’s a good manager, but he burns through relievers way too quickly……..and he leaves CC in too long, too many times.
This isnt new. Yankees do not play well at Fenway early in the season. Don’t know why…. We did lose game 1 to baltimore last year and the first 8 to boston and still won the WS. Not really time to panic yet.
And Robertson came out because CHoP, Marte and Joba were supposed to do their jobs and they didnt.
CB,
What was the defensive alignment like on Youkilis’ triple? I know the ball was smoked. But with the speed we have in LF & CF is it possible to shade towards right a bit? Or does that stupid green thing make it difficult to do so?
Marte was the only reliever I saw last night that I’m a bit concerned about. He could probably have thrown 3 fastballs right on by Ortiz and couldn’t throw a strike. Hopefully its just rust but but he’s going to be really important so they need to get him right.
CB, I’m not defending Swisher’s play on the triple, just pointing out the right field wall is a long way from the plate in Fenway and I couldn’t tell on TV whether a better route could have cut the ball off anyway.
There was no second passed ball. The first pitch from Marte was a wild pitch. The second was a passed ball.
Posada didn’t have any serious trouble with passed balls/ wild pitches other than with Marte in the game.
Frank, it’s not that I object to Park being brought into the game, but Robertson had done a fine job. Joe is not perfect. He’s a good manager, but he burns through relievers way too quickly……..and he leaves CC in too long, too many times.
___
If he pulled CC after 5 and the pen came in and crapped out the way they did, all of you would be saying, “CC at 80 pitches and they took him out?” “Bad move by Joe G” …..
Very easy to ‘decide’ what should have happened after you see what went wrong.
Yes, CC clearly tired, but no way he doesnt start the 6th inning.
Patrick, another way to look at it is that it’s the first game of the season and players are still getting into form so it’s wasted energy to worry about anything that happened in the game.
I guess I just have the ability to forget the game as soon as its over and look forward to the next one. Just like the players do.
Mel, the yanks were playing Youkilis pretty much straight up. Hard to shift one way ot another on him because he hits the ball hard everywhere.
Oh, I stuck around an heard Jorge on the post game last night. Ha Ha! It is soooo true that he was trying very hard to be diplomatic, but he cannot hide his displeasure and frustration at losing that game.
I actually appreciated his more emotional (though very controlled) comments.
“CB, I’m not defending Swisher’s play on the triple, just pointing out the right field wall is a long way from the plate in Fenway and I couldn’t tell on TV whether a better route could have cut the ball off anyway.”
It’s a 2 run double no matter what. Even if Swisher had gotten to the ball before it got to the wall he would have done so with his momentum carrying him away from the infield. Looked like a pretty bad angle though to give Youlilis the extra base.
I think the Yankees need to start either walking youkilis or pitching around him. He seems to bat 1000 against us.
“Frank, it’s not that I object to Park being brought into the game, but Robertson had done a fine job.”
I hear you. Robertson did give up a hard single to allow the tying run home, but threw 6 pitches, all strikes. Like you, I don’t object to Park being brought in, but do wonder what the argument against bringing Robertson back out would be.
CB,
I know that the first one was a wild pitch. I was referring to it as a passed ball because it’s easier to understand my point that way.
Yes Marte was very wild and Posada did fine with everyone else but you must admit that he shouldn’t have let the ball get by him on the passed ball.
Hi Everybody !
I just have to say that since I left this blog for a couple of months I never noticed so many trolls on here before. During the World Series I don’t remember this blog having so many, but I guess they have to come out now that the Yankees have won a title and the regular season has started.
It wasn’t the best night but I figured that the team was going to lose. CC is a slow starter and many of the other Yankee players start off the season slow. But I was not that impressed with Boston especially Josh Beckett.
“Posada should have gotten in front of that pitch. He doesn’t move behind the plate as well as he did and he was never great to begin with.”
cb-
i agree. he has been at his best when he has a catching instructor working with him on being active with his lower body. the yankees would be smart to always have a catching instructor keeping jorge literally on his toes.
that said, at the end of a year we’re talking about about ten passed balls. the difference between jorge and the best catchers with passed balls isn’t that great.
as a matter of fact, posada had 9 passed balls last year and so did joe mauer.
this is not to say that there are balls that mauer will get to or block that jorge won’t and jorge won’t get a passed ball or negative mark against him.
a catcher like mauer is clearly better defensively, but the difference is not as much as some posters try to make it out.
the impact on a game is really negligible compared to the hitting surplus that posada brings.
m,
Youkilis hits to all fields so I don’t think that there would have been any major defensive shift for him.
The underlying issue is that RF is Fenway is huge – it’s like LF in yankee stadium.
Swisher’s range was part of the issue last night. A better defensive RF not only would have taken a better read on the ball but also would have had the speed to put himself in better position in the first place.
Nick cut across on that ball almost horizontally with the thoughts of cutting it off rather than keeping the ball in front.
Not sure why he did that as even “cutting it off” would have allowed Youkilis to get to 2nd. There was no advantage to the route Nick took – only risk and that’s what happened.
It’s not a big deal. Swisher was hardly the reason why they lost (though that DP was painful…) But just one example of how defense does make a difference in the game.
“Very easy to ?decide? what should have happened after you see what went wrong. ”
And that’s what some posters here do best!
I guarantee you that if Joe pulled CC and the bullpen gave it up, there would have been a firestorm about Joe making CC look like a loser the first game of the season, pulling him when he only had 80 pitches on him (or whatever it was).
the decision to pitch to Youk with a base open and Ortiz on deck was really a bad one IMO….especially once he fell behind in the count. As I said last night I had no problem with CC starting that inning but that call was a real head scratcher to me.
Tex’s friend
Don’t fear Youkilis. I say just do a better job pitching to him. He always starts off strong out of the gate, and then tends to slow down during the rest of the season.
Chad, Any info on Hughes pitching today would be appreciated. Thanks!
Thanks, GB & CB.
blake
I agree. They should have went after Ortiz at that point.
Why are there numerous reporters today writing that “Granderson came up short” in his debut? He hit a homer in his first AB and did half good/half bad against LHPs for the night, while also playing a good CF (played the wall well and made a very strong throw to 2nd to make a sure double a lot closer than it should have been), but the fact that he made the last out in a non-rally in the 9th and was officially 0-for-1 against LHP means he somehow disappointed in his first game? Way overly critical, to say the least.
“Like you, I don’t object to Park being brought in, but do wonder what the argument against bringing Robertson back out would be.”
Unfortunately, I think it’s just another example of Tony LaRussa style bull pen management.
It can be very dismaying because it’s managing by rather arbitrary rules that have now become the standard conventions in the game.
Robertson should have pitched the 7nth. Every time you make a pitching switch in the pen late in games you do bring in a fresh arm. But when the arm that you just replaced threw less than 10 pitches that freshness isn’t an advantage.
At the same time every time you make a pitching switch in the pen you are increasing the chances of putting a guy out on the mound who for whatever reason just “doesn’t have it” that night.
And that’s what happened. Robertson settled down and looked to be his usual self. Girardi made the right call bringing Robertson in to get out of the jam. But then he replaced a pitcher who looked good with a “fresh arm” and Park simply had no command of his pitches at all last night.
With every pitching switch you bring that possibility to bear – the next reliever will simply not have it that night.
NYYRoc, I don’t think there will be much, if any info. No one is down there to do any reporting………..but I was thinking the same thing you were.
“The Yankees will never win with that scrub Posada catching.”
Didn’t they just win the WS?
Look, Jorge should have caught that passed ball, but Yanks did not lose the game because of Posada. In fact they were in a position to win because of him.
Girardi allowed Marte to work at his own pace in March and as a result he didn’t work enough innings to be sharp enough to start the season. Mariano can work at his own pace because he knows his own body – Marte doesn’t.
As for Joba, he clearly didn’t have the mound presence many expected he’d have as an 8th inning man. He allowed a extra insurance run. If it continues, Robertson is the better bridge to Mariano.
how can someone send erin andrews a death threat? what is wrong with people. 1. She never did anything wrong 2. She is the hottest sports analyst on TV.
“I think the Yankees need to start either walking youkilis or pitching around him. He seems to bat 1000 against us.”
All of baseball should be walking Youkilis all of the time this year.
No Jason Bay anymore and Papi has no bat speed.
Pitching to Youkilis last night was a terrible decision. But if you leave your ace in the game and don’t explicitly force him to walk Youkilis he is going to go after him.
Girardi does that WAY too much……especially with Robertson, who I don’t think he’s especially fond of. It’s a problem he has and I don’t understand why he does it.
Andrew, you’re right about Granderson, but if you’re referring to Andrew Marchand, just don’t even bother with him. Don’t even bother with ESPN NY at all.
Betsy, You never know, Chad may have contacts (Scott Aldred etc?) down there. If anyone can get the info Chad can!
“Has Posada EVER taken individual responsibility for messing up in any game EVER? I mean EVER? I believe I have heard just about every Yankee player, including Mo, pointing the finger at himself at one time or another but I swear that all I ever hear Jorge do is use thinly-veiled complaints about everyone but himself.
If anyone can remember any occasion where Jorge said he screwed up, please remind me about it.”
trisha-
i’m going to say this once because it needs to be said.
no one on this blog dislikes posada more than you do, and no troll has ever caused as much disruption to the blog as you did last summer with your posada bashing .
you just griped about trolls on the blog on the last post, but there were games last year were you posted over 15 % of the posts( one game had 117 posts by you) and made the blog unreadable with your anti posada diatribes.
you’ve been keeping it under control so far this year, but if you go back on the tangent you were on last year, expect it coming right back at you.
i know that math isn’t one of your strong points, but divide the number of your posts by the total posts and when you hit 10%, stick a sock in it.
Yep – remember the time Moose wanted to face Ramirez? I don’t blame the pitcher – what pitcher with any self-respect is going to admit he can’t get the job done? CC never has to be afraid of any hitter, even Youkillis, under ordinary circumstances, but last night he wasn’t his normal self.
NYYRoc, Chad’s the best, lol…..
“but the fact that he made the last out in a non-rally in the 9th and was officially 0-for-1 against LHP means he somehow disappointed in his first game? Way overly critical, to say the least.”
To those who have been worried about Granderson’s history vs. LHP, the KO vs Shoeneweis with runners on second and third was a disquieting confirmation of their worries.
Way too soon to judge of course, but never too soon to worry, I guess.
CB, totally agree. Each time to reach into a bag of jelly beans you run the risk of getting a flavor you don’t like. I think Robertson should have stayed in but that’s hindsight. Park actually made a few good pitched…I think he’ll be ok…pedroia hit a fenway homer…it happens.
BBFan – you should read the whole post you are replying to before you “overreact”.
“the impact on a game is really negligible compared to the hitting surplus that posada brings.”
randy,
There’s some strange thing about catching where people just look at the position completely differently than any other. It’s as if the overall net contribution the player makes is irrelevant.
Maybe it’s just that people have grown so accustomed to catcher’s not hitting a lick they look at any offense from behind the dish as “gravy” and not something to count on?
I don’t know.
Alex Rodriguez is not a good defensive 3b. While improved Jeter is not what you’d call a dominant defensive player. Would the yankees be better off with Pedro Feliz and Jack Wilson on the left side?
It’s the net contribution the player makes that decides whether or not the team wins.
Say a silent prayer today for Austin Jackson. His first major league game and he draws Zach Greinke.
Can you guys help me understand something?
It seems like there is a percentage of regular posters on here that even goes back to last year that are constantly criticizing Posada. Why??
As fan of the Sox I would take Posada in a heart beat! Just don’t understand the chronic complaining about Posada by regular posters on here.
It’s Game One for the blog too. Lots to sort out. By the All Star Break we’ll know who the trolls are and who are the legit posters. This year will be no different and it won’t be a big deal. The Blog will round into shape and give everybody another great season
It’s one game and neither team looked good; one team got the ball to their closer and won. I mean, does anybody really think the Yankee bullpen will give up at least one run per man per appearance this season? Didn’t think so. Does anybody who saw CC last year think he’ll pitch in a dominating fashion before it gets warm? Certainly not me. But he’ll be there when it counts.
The writers have to have something to pick on, something that generates content until a better storyline comes along. They decided well before last night’s game that Granderson and Johnson are easy targets because they are “replacing” Damon and Matsui (Even though that is pretty disingenuous as arguments go). Gardner is “easy pickins” too, with Winn and Thames on the bench – easy to generate controversy about whether Gardy is an “everyday player.” Expect the drumbeat to continue.
And FYI Cano has passed the lazy test already – he’s not lazy. He is one of the best second basemen in the game. I’m not saying he played that ball off the wall wrong, but even assuming he pulled a “vapor lock” on one play in one game, how is that a basis from which to draw the conclusion that he’s lazy or inattentive? Answer: It’s not. The bottom line is that you’re entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
Now enjoy the rest of the season and don’t be such instigators or you’ll get a time out until you compose yourselves.
Wave Your Hat you will be glad to know, Michael Kay informed everyone last night that he will be providing at-bat by at-bat updates on the season-long drama that is “Curtis Granderson versus left-handed pitching”. Apparently that is the only thing that matters about his game, since it’s something he is not good at. Nothing else even worth paying attention to.
“As fan of the Sox I would take Posada in a heart beat! Just don’t understand the chronic complaining about Posada by regular posters on here.”
Most regular posters don’t complain about Posada at all. There are a few here who do, but they are a small minority.
CB had a great post last night about the positional advantage posada has provided over other teams through the years. He’s a great player..
“It seems like there is a percentage of regular posters on here that even goes back to last year that are constantly criticizing Posada. Why?? ”
I have no idea. He should be enshrined as a Yankee great similar to Bernie, Jeter, etc. But a lot of fans just don’t like the guy for one reason or another.
ray
I love Posada. But, occasionally, he has mental lapses/defensive breakdowns.
As others have said, that was awful pitching from Marte, but after allowing the wild pitch, Po cannot allow a passed ball to allow the lead to be given up.
A lead which was the Sox’s God given right, according to Jon Miller!
Ray, I think as other posters have
tex’s friend
She is a Red Sox fan!
Also, she lied and said that the athletes that she covers think of her as their little sister. LOL
Fans don’t like his personality, that’s what it comes down to. You should have seen the handwringing that went on when Jorge “scolded” Swish for laughing in that blowout last year in Tampa when he pitched. I had no problem with that..
Wave, it was one at bat by Granderson.
CR9:
Do you get YES at home? Seems to me it would have done your blood pressure good to watch the YES call rather than drive yourself to the brink of stroking out, by watching ESPN.
Jorge has one of the best personalities. Only an untrue fan would dislike Jorge.
I mean, he pee pees on his hands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a guy!!
There’s a good chance the Yankees would be going for #25 or 26 this year instead of #28 without Posada and I don’t think I’m exaggerating by saying that.
Ray I think as other posters have pointed out already, Jorge’s good points far outweigh his bad. But he is far from perfect and it seems that a few people here actually come close to falling apart whenever Jorge (or Joe Torre) is criticized. I actually find it humorous that a fan would be that personally invested in a player or anyone else that criticism of that person actually causes him to spin out of control and shoot out all kind of invective! I guess the only people in the organization who aren’t sacred are GMs. You want to talk about cyberspace consumed criticizing Cashman, you don’t have to look far. I think it’s the old biblical argument that someone shouldn’t criticize the splinter in someone else’s eye until he removes the plank from his own.
Posada is Father O’Malley compared to Thurman Munson after a loss.
I for one never thought I’d defend Swisher’s defense, but here goes. Youk is a RH batter and he drilled that pitch to RF. I am sure it was sliced hard to the right as often an opposite field hit does. Swish thought he could get to it or at least close enough to block it but it was hit harder than he expected and I’m sure the slice was probably a good 6 to 8 feet to the RF line as well. I’m not as concerned about that play as some. It would have been nice if Swish had recognized that Youk was the runner and played if safer.
Few of my notes
Biggest blunder is the most meaningless game of the season, was CC not putting Youkliss ion with Big Sloppy on deck. Different Ball game if that happens, otherwise it was pretty predictable game.
Chan Ho Park is this years version of Latroy Hawkins and Jose Veras.. Will not be in the team come the ASB
Nothing to complain about with Gardner in Left.
I thought Jobber was meant to be a reliever who would solidify the pen….
Frank
Thanks for the considerate suggestion
I get Directv, and NESN and YES were blacked out. I would have gladly watched NESN over ESPN. That’s how truly horrifying their coverage was.
I mean, we’re the World Champions, and that only got mentioned TWICE.
If they were the World Champions, we would have heard it 2,000 times.
BloggingBombers RT @sportswatch Is John Sterling using “Something Sort of Grandish” from Finian’s Rainbow for Granderson homer call brilliant or insane?
“It seems like there is a percentage of regular posters on here that even goes back to last year that are constantly criticizing Posada. Why??
As fan of the Sox I would take Posada in a heart beat! Just don’t understand the chronic complaining about Posada by regular posters on here.”
ray-
It’s beyond perplexing. It really is. I think Posada has spoiled many yankee fans. A number of yankee fans don’t follow baseball in general and Posada has made them forget how bad most even average catchers are.
It’s the height of baseball ignorance.
Fortunately, it’s only a minority. Unfortunately, it’s a vocal minority – the kind that will call up talk radio, that tend towards histrionics, etc. And it’s also an easy story for the NY media to froth up so they will run with it, like the phantom Posada-Burnett controversy last year.
GreenBeret7 April 5th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Posada is Father O?Malley compared to Thurman Munson after a loss.
***********************
Thanks Tom B.
“At the same time every time you make a pitching switch in the pen you are increasing the chances of putting a guy out on the mound who for whatever reason just “doesn’t have it” that night.”
And that’s a risk you can take at home against the Orioles, but not at Fenway Park.
Also, warming up four or five guys a night is going to the kill the bullpen in the long run. We obviously have issues with that last April, and hopefully it won’t happen again.
I always thought the advantage of our bullpen is that pretty much everyone besides Marte can pitch 1+ inning if he needed to. You don’t have to mix and match religiously with the relievers we have.
GB, I don’t mind Posada getting upset. I do mind his references to other players pecadilloes while never seeming to acknowledge his own. That’s why I asked the question (and it was a sincere one) about his ever taking responsibility for his own poor play, if ever it is there.
“And it’s also an easy story for the NY media to froth up so they will run with it, like the phantom Posada-Burnett controversy last year.”
In fairness to the media, wouldn’t it be fair to say that Girardi unecessarily lent a good deal of credence to this theory when he sat Posada in Burnett’s playoff starts?
Truthfully, how many Yankees fans on here have undertaken the habit of pee peeing on one’s hands as a result of Jorge?
The sad thing is that if Montero or Romine live up to their billing and do a fantastic job replacing Posada (which is what we all hope for), Posada will have an even harder time garnering the respect he deserves.
We need to live through three years of Brian Schneider/Rod Barajas like our friends across town to truly appreciate how lucky we’ve been.
GB, if you are still on here. Just wanted you to know I did notice your comment about my dog “Yaz” last night!!! You will pay for that one my friend.
I hope you and those around you are all doing well.
ray (sox fan),
It’s a familiarity breeds contempt thing with some people. They get so caught up in what a player can’t do, that they fail to see the positives far outweigh the negatives. The guy is a borderline HOFer and some people would lead you to believe that he’s nothing more than a reserve.
Jeter catches his share of flack for the same reason, I think. People get tired of seeing the same players making the same “mistakes” I guess. Even if they’re great players
With Mo being 40 years old and bullpens being volatile by nature, we really need to feel more hope and assurance that Joba can be a stabilizing anchor sometime in the near future and well beyond that point.
In my opinion, our closer situation is causing the most anxiety…at least for me anyways.
If Girardi had the luxury of 2007 Joba lurking in the pen last night, he could’ve pulled CC after 5, brought in Robertson for the 6th and put the smack down with Joba in the 7th and 8th.
Joe has an NL suspect in Park, an erratic and possibly injured Marte, an injured Aceves.
The pen looked good on paper coming in.
It’s not.
Can we trade for Heath Bell yet?
Posada has taken responsibilities quite often for his mistakes and bad games. He also kept his mouth shut after that Posada/Burnett BS last year. He had more than ample opportunites to hammer both Burnett and Chamberlain for their lack of concentration at times. Posada may not be the best catcher in baseball, but, you’d be hard pressed to find 4 better all around catchers than him. Fans on here would have hated Munson. His catching wasn’t the greatest, but, there was little doubt about who ran the game on the field.
“In fairness to the media, wouldn’t it be fair to say that Girardi unecessarily lent a good deal of credence to this theory when he sat Posada in Burnett’s playoff starts?”
It’s one thing to say that Molina is an outstanding catcher and has been on a roll with Burnett, so you don’t want to mess up that chemistry. But it shouldn’t have turned into a personal issue between Burnett and Posada.
Beckett so far has pitched horribly with Victor Martinez behind the plate. Do you think if Varitek were to catch his starts in October, that the media would be saying Beckett and Martinez don’t get along?
Brett,
So one game brought you to that conclusion? Don’t you think we should wait until at least the 2nd or 3rd game before trading for Heath Bell?
I am not worried about Posada. The catching situation is one of the most comforting aspects of the team. Posada, Montero, Romine, Cervelli.
I think we need to pick a new topic-like the bullpen…
Ray
I appreciate Posada! I am glad he plays for the Yankees!!! But he is human and will make mistakes. I’m just glad he didn’t throw a ball to 2B with a speedy runner on 3rd!! Oh, that was the other guy! LOL!
Sometimes greatness isn’t appreciated until its gone.
“In fairness to the media, wouldn’t it be fair to say that Girardi unecessarily lent a good deal of credence to this theory when he sat Posada in Burnett’s playoff starts?”
He did. That made it much worse.
However, the faux controversy already existed well before the playoffs.
AJ gives up a home run and yells “Why” on the mound. From that event, an inference is drawn that Burnett and Posada can’t work together and AJ was blaming Posada.
That’s kindergarten thinking.
” I do mind his references to other players pecadilloes while never seeming to acknowledge his own.”
posada is the ultimate team player.
he really is the defacto team co captain of the present yankee run.
the other co captain is mariano.
Someone please tell me Swisher has “gone Hollywood” and hired a publicist to handle his Twitter and that it’s not him that is this clueless….
NickSwisher Getting ready to play the #RedSox again tonight! Whats up Yankee Nation?!?!?!
6 minutes ago via web
blake April 5th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
Brett,
So one game brought you to that conclusion? Don’t you think we should wait until at least the 2nd or 3rd game before trading for Heath Bell?
—-
Hi Blake. No. Not at all. My anxiety about the pen centers on Joba’s diminished stuff for the entire 2009, 2010 spring training. Last night just confirms the precedents set by Joba long ago.
Heath Bell please
“Posada has taken responsibilities quite often for his mistakes and bad games.”
Thank you for answering that question. That’s what I wanted to know.
pat
Probably a Red Sox fan running his Twitter, trying to make him look like a fool, with the first line, and also the Yankee Nation ripoff line.
“Beckett so far has pitched horribly with Victor Martinez behind the plate. Do you think if Varitek were to catch his starts in October, that the media would be saying Beckett and Martinez don’t get along?”
Don’t know. I do know Boston media doesn’t operate much differently than NYC media does.
I blame Girardi for the AJ/Posada thing; in today’s Newsday, Jorge actually said to “ask Girardi” about that. He knows AJ wanted him to catch him. They had a really bad day that day in Boston, but it just blew up – and Joe didn’t do anything to quell it.
ray (sox fan) April 5th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
GB, if you are still on here. Just wanted you to know I did notice your comment about my dog “Yaz” last night!!! You will pay for that one my friend.
I hope you and those around you are all doing well.
———————————————————————————————————————-
LMAO. Afternoon, Ray. Everything is going well down here. Thanks for the kind words. Hope that you and the (sox fan) family are doing well.
“Killer” got loose this morning and I just found a note that he left, explaining that he was hitchhiking up to Mass. to teach “Yaz” how to be a real dog. Says that he’s embarrassed that a poodle in a tu-tu and pink ribbon would consider himself a dog.
“Youk is a RH batter and he drilled that pitch to RF. I am sure it was sliced hard to the right as often an opposite field hit does. ”
RayVT,
You’re correct in this but this is actually one of the reasons why Nick’s play was particularly bad.
On fly balls off RH bats like that, RF know the ball is going to slice and that’s why they can’t take direct lines to the ball. They have to loop around some on their approach to keep the play in front.
Swisher approached the ball more like a RF should when a LH bat pulls the ball.
Maybe its just me but I actually thought Joba’s stuff looked a little better last night..at least in the first inning he pitched. As was discussed previously, just the act of moving him back to the pen isn’t going to magically cure all his problems. Its going to be a process…
Im sick of the negativity on here. Lets look at some of the postives .
1- Granderson looked good
2- Nick Johsnon is going to be an OBP machine ( if heahtly )
3- Cano looked good
Overall- The Offense looked Great ! .
According to the MLBnetwork, Beckett just agreed to a four year deal w/ the Sox.
“It’s a familiarity breeds contempt thing with some people. They get so caught up in what a player can’t do, that they fail to see the positives far outweigh the negatives.”
Unfortunately, I think this is already happening with Curtis Granderson, though without the familiarity.
Granderson does struggle with LH pitchers. There’s no doubt about that. But I’ve been very surprised to see how much attention has been paid to this issue by the NY Media.
And as someone else mentioned before – it seems like Michael Kay is going to make this his pet issue to beat into the ground all this year.
gb7-
i menat to ask you about romine but forgot to..
i was pretty impressed with his catching when i saw him last week in a spring training game.
he’s very quiet back there with his body giving a good target and he’s very smooth in all his movements.
you’ve seen him play often. what’s yur opinion of his catching and overall play ?
Well anyway, Eldrick Woods has a presser today at 2:00 which should take some pressure off those that thought the Yankees would have a regular season of 162-0.
Beckett wanted to get that contract signed before his game gets worse than it already is.
Blake-
“Its going to be a process…”
See. There’s the proof that you are really Brian Cashman.
All the rest of it. The pseudonym; The fake identity as a mild mannered Dentist. All BS.
And I fell for it. Hook, line, and sinker.
Good morning Brian.
Mike RI,
I’ll add the the corner infielders played great defense as usual. Dave Robertson pitched pretty well too.
Positivity is good.
Blake, the results were bad though; are you just talking velocity? Kyle Farnsworth throws very hard and we know how he is.
LOL What a suprise; it happens every year. The Red Sox players want to stay and they will forgo free agency to do it; Yankee players? Nevermind a hometown discount, they demand more to stay with us. I don’t understand it and never will.
GB
Munson took his share of flack too when the Reds ran on his arm (sidearm throws) like crazy. IMO, Posada is a better defensive catcher than Munson. Both were great hitters and leaders. It is a shame Munson died early.
But let’s not punish Posada for his defense when the pitchers were everywhere with their pitches. Also, Posada isn’t 28 yrs old back there. It is a 162 game season and more with post season. This is just 1 game.
Now if you want to list mistakes the players made so be it. Most everyone would not even recognize most of the mistakes made. Posada’s defense wasn’t bad, but it wasn’t Johny Bench great either.
blake April 5th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Maybe its just me but I actually thought Joba’s stuff looked a little better last night..at least in the first inning he pitched. As was discussed previously, just the act of moving him back to the pen isn’t going to magically cure all his problems. Its going to be a process…
—-
No time for that.
Heath Bell please.
ps I know it’s not gonna happen (at least not until the wee hours of the trade deadline) but it brings me comfort just thinking about it.
i have a question for the blog. is papi done? by that, I mean is he now relegated to being a mistake hitter that can only hit if he guesses right?
LOL GB…….I wish, though; Beckett will be fine.
Romine will likely never be a C for the Yankees, which is too bad, but he’s had the bad luck to play the same position as Montero.
kd-
Didn’t you see the fork sticking out of Papi’s back ?
MTU, I wish I were Brian Cashman…well sorta.
Betsy, velocity, life on fastball, tilt in slider…it was the first time this spring he looked like he was letting it fly and not cruising…at least intitially…still looks like he just tires fast.
Im sick of the negativity on here. Lets look at some of the postives .
1- Granderson looked good
2- Nick Johsnon is going to be an OBP machine ( if heahtly )
3- Cano looked good
Overall- The Offense looked Great !
—————–
And Gardner looked good at the plate. Two solid hits, worked the count and was a pest on the bases. Going 1st to 3rd on Jeter’s single to left was something only a handful of players could do. And of course, that set up the double steal.
Relievers or starters, I think it can still be said that it takes power pitchers a bit longer to find their perfect release point and be consistent on the mound. CC’s slow starter reputation could be used as an indicator along that line, and I think with Joba that has to be a factor when evaluating him, as well. His slider looked good last night but his FB didn’t and the one change-up he tried to throw was pretty terrible. It’s all about his ability to throw his fastball for a quality strike. Once he’s doing that consistently, there won’t be as much worry about him.
One game, good or bad, is too early to decide the bullpen isn’t good.
It’s not even logical.
This is baseball. Snap judgments make no sense, even for impatient Yankee fans.
kd, now that Papi knows his milkshakes will be closely scrutinized, I believe his best days may very well be behind him. JMO
Betsy – Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) April 5th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Blake, the results were bad though; are you just talking velocity? Kyle Farnsworth throws very hard and we know how he is.
LOL What a suprise; it happens every year. The Red Sox players want to stay and they will forgo free agency to do it; Yankee players? Nevermind a hometown discount, they demand more to stay with us. I don’t understand it and never will.
—-
Good point on the first item.
As for the Sox players giving good deals…I think we have to give some credit to the negotiating abilities of the Sox front office. They don’t have a Hank slugging around the office with 10 year 300 million dollar offers to 33 year olds. There is a precision to the Sox payroll process that the Yankees haven’t figured out yet.
randy l. April 5th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
gb7-
i menat to ask you about romine but forgot to..
i was pretty impressed with his catching when i saw him last week in a spring training game.
he’s very quiet back there with his body giving a good target and he’s very smooth in all his movements.
you’ve seen him play often. what’s yur opinion of his catching and overall play ?
———————————————————————————————————————-
afternoon, Randy. From what I saw of Romine this spring (and Montero for that matter), they aren’t the same defensive catchers that they were last year even, much less 2 years ago. Those guys have been working hard with somebody. Romine always had slow feet (when shifting) and a slow, stiff glove hand. It seems like Romine has taken dancing lessons and gotten some rhythm to his feet. His hands are a lot softer, faster and quieter. That’s my impression from the limited time I saw him this spring.
blake-
I also thought Joba’s stuff looked better than it did in his last two spring training appearances particularly in the 7nth.
But once guys got on base he became a bit tentative again.
Why he’s throwing sliders on 3 ball counts to the 9th place hitter, I’m not sure.
His stuff wasn’t anywhere close to what it was two years ago, but that’s no surprise. I did think he looked better than spring training, but that might not be saying much.
Just not sure we’re going to know what to make of him for a while.
To be honest, the way his stuff is playing now he looks even more like a starting pitcher to me.
Not sure it’s in his best interest stuff wise to become a two pitch pitcher. In a certain way, with his stuff being down, using 4 pitches is even more important for him. The Sox looked like they pretty much knew what he was going to throw.
Robertson is a better pitcher than Joba is right now.
“One game, good or bad, is too early to decide the bullpen isn?t good.
It?s not even logical.
This is baseball. Snap judgments make no sense, even for impatient Yankee fans.”
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!
But what I find most scary is that you would even have to make that comment.
CB April 5th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
I agree CB. I believe he wasn’t in the moment thinking about what could happen. Swish is not known for great defense and he probably was second guessing himself which made it worse. If he had run hard & dived for the ball then it would have been deemed by most as a great effort. It is hard to expect a gold glove from a bronze one.
I chalk it up to jitters & early season stuff with Swish. He will think about the situation more next time I’m sure. Joe G will let him know & so will Jeter.
Okay -
There’s a tough lefty going tomorrow night. Does Gardner sit? How about Granderson? You can’t sit them both, obviously. I don’t think Granderson should be an issue. Gardner had a good night last night at bat. Do you see how he can do? Or do you let Winn or Thames have the start?
I lean toward Winn, as the better defender in a tough park (although, he probably doesn’t have much experience at Fenway, does he?)
Or not.
Maybe they do want to see what Gardner can do against Lester.
Bret, Hank really isn’t much of a presence at this point. I understand why players would like to play in Boston, but it’s frustrating when our players don’t share the same feeling.
If Romine continues to progress, he’ll be the backup catcher for the Yanks. Cervelli would end up being the odd man out.
But that obvioulsy depends on Romine and Jesus not having any setbacks (or being part of any big trades). If not, I think they’ll be the 2 catchers on the big club in 2012.
Brett-
“There is a precision to the Sox payroll process that the Yankees haven’t figured out yet”
Yeah, you’re right the Yankees are not as good at trashing their ex players as the Sox are, or as good at throwing them under the bus for a few extra bucks.
Saying velocity doesn’t matter is good analysis to a point..it does matter some ,especially for a pitcher like Jobber.
blake April 5th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Joba’s stuff was better last night. He did okay until he shook off two pitches to Cameron and threw him a fastball which Cameron hammered. Wrong batter to throw fastballs too. Joba lost his swagger there and was reeling after that.
Betsy,
Please. The Sox front office is simply better at negotiating with agents and their clients.
Swisher looked to be playing Youkilis to pull on the triple. I’m guessing the Yankee scouting report reflected that he’s more likely to pull a ball at Fenway, for obvious reasons, than go the other way.
Swisher had a bad game last night and the criticism does seem to evade him whereas Jorge has a passed ball from a wild Marte on a night where Jorge was a big part of the offense and he’s the focal point for the loss.
Jorge brings out that feeling in some fans. I’ve always loved the guy, but I do know a lot of fans who can’t stand him for some reason.
Nevertheless, that was a highly winnable game last night and we should have won it, but didn’t.
CC was gassed in the 5th. Everyone could see it. Girardi made some bad decisions with the pen last night, but I did like the idea of bringing Robertsen in to put out the fire in the 6th.
That choice said to me he’s not caught up in who pitches what inning. He took his 2nd best reliever in Robertsen and put him in a tough spot to try to end the rally.
Why he didn’t send him back out for the 7th was perplexing to me, but I guess he thought Park had a great spring and would carry it over which he didn’t.
Still, there was a lot to like last night. Granderson taking Beckett deep on a no-doubter in his first at bat impressed me a ton. I love that. I also loved his strong throw to second on Youkilis’ double off the wall that made it close. The scouting reports are going to change about taking 2b against him if the runner isn’t sure.
Gardner had to opposite field hits that were in big spots and he stole home on the double steal which was awesome. That throw from LF was a mess, but hopefully that’s a one time thing.
I just felt like it was a typical Red Sox/Yankee game where the starters are meaningless and the pen decides the outcome.
When CC is able to go longer in the game, this becomes less of an issue later in the season, in my opinion. Mid-season CC takes that win home and pitches to the 7th at least.
CountryClub, Gardner also made a force play at 2nd to end an inning extremely close when it shouldn’t have been. He showed bunt at least once late in the game, and he definitely seemed to be trying to hit the ball on the ground as much as possible during his ABs. I hope he gets a chance to start against Lester, just because I think a true platoon right off the bat is pointless since there isn’t authoritative, huge-sample-size data that says Gardner has a major deficiency against LHP that requires Thames platooning.
Also re: Granderson, I fully expect Michael Kay to provide the crucial & necessary update that Granderson is now 0-for-2 with a walk against LHP so far in 2010 if he makes an out in his first AB against Lester tomorrow night.
thanks guys.
it’s weird to say, but i almost hope that there was some signs of life in papi’s bat. i’d rather see the red sox try to have him be a productive player than them give him the lowell treatment and try and trade for a bat.
i hope that sd doesn’t give in to theo and give them gonzalez for nothing.
With 3 balls on You kill us why not put him on? 1st base was open my god, papi on deck, then bring in Marte. That triple killed us.
Betsy
I have knowledge of this, BUT, overall the Yankees do spend more money and seem to generate more money than the Red Sox. The Red Sox are always chasing the Yankees. Perhaps the players that are successful and really do enjoy playing in Boston, are able to be persuaded to take a little less in order that the team can get a little more? In free agency, it seems the Sox will let a player go over a few million.
It’s a more difficult think in NY. Free agents who never played in NY before get offered and take top dollar. Why should a guy who is already on the team that the teams wants back have to take less? It would be nice, but nice is not the name of the game here.
Betsy
Unless George is willing to right me a check for the difference, I can’t care which millionaire gets richer- the player or the owner.
GB-
One thing about Romine that you have pointed out is that he has an uncanny ability to interfere with batters.
Ever figure that one out ?
Yeah they do a good job capitulating to their players, like when Papelsmear thought he was worth Mariano pay and so they gave him more money. Look how that worked out.
“The Red Sox players want to stay and they will forgo free agency to do it; Yankee players? Nevermind a hometown discount, they demand more to stay with us. I don’t understand it and never will.”
The Yankees have created that situation themselves by giving top dollar contracts to FAs, sometimes outbidding themselves to do so. Of course their internal FAs are going to look to be treated the same as the outside guys once it is their turn.
The Red Sox have rarely given an overmarket deal, outside of the Manny Ramirez contract by a different front office. Their internal FAs have little choice than to take what is offered if they want to stay, many of them outside of Damon are reluctant to play leverage using the Yankees.
You can’t sit Granderson. The guy is a very good player – he should play and play and play until he proves he’s outright pathetic.
CB, why do you think Joba looks like a SP right now? If he is one, how good would he be with the stuff and mentality he’s showing now? I hope he’ll show improvement, but if he doesn’t in the next month or so, what harm would it do to send him down to try and figure out what the problem is? I don’t respect NYYFans at all when it comes to Joba or Phil (as they constantly complain that the Yanks have ruined them) ,but I sort of have to agree that Cashman saying that Joba will never have that velocity again sounds like he’s given up on trying to figure out what’s wrong with him.
CB,
Yup…I don’t see this Joba being successful with fastball/slider. Makes no sense to scrap the other two pitches. Also agree that Robertson should be setting up right now to give Joba some space and to see what happens with him.
The Yankees want to make sure their stars don’t get away. But to be fair, those stars have earned what they were paid.
It’s a different market now. Beckett knows, too, that the only teams that can pay big bucks are the Yankees and the Sox. Yankees are a reach, so he probably will gladly take what the Sox offer him.
I’ll be interested to see the figures, but it’ll probably be in Burnett and Lackey’s neighborhood.
Romine is talented enough to start; I’d rather see him traded and be a starting C somewhere else than be reduced to a backup C here.
right = write
There’s no way Joba should be starting when he looks like he’s gonna pass out after 2 innings.
Doreen-
Did you need me to send you the list of winners yesterday or did you get it from my post?
Joba was throwing like a starter last night. Is he still competing for a job?
“Betsy,
Please. The Sox front office is simply better at negotiating with agents and their clients.”
When your mission statement is to win a WS every season and by not doing so your season is considered a failure, it makes it difficult for a GM to take such a hardline, if ownership holds him to the fire with the mission statement and then restricts him from holding the hardline like the cave in job with Arod.
Betsy – Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) April 5th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
Romine is talented enough to start; I?d rather see him traded and be a starting C somewhere else than be reduced to a backup C here.
*****************
I didn’t think many catchers are awarded starting jobs right out of the minors. Even Posada was a back up to Girardi in 1996
Pat, I’m not sure what you’re saying.
Erica -
I got it from your post! Thanks so much.
Erica, Country Club (to me, anyway – if I’m wrong CC, I apologize) was saying that Romine would be a permanent backup catcher to Montero. He’s too good to be a backup.
“The Yankees have created that situation themselves by giving top dollar contracts to FAs, sometimes outbidding themselves to do so. Of course their internal FAs are going to look to be treated the same as the outside guys once it is their turn.”
They also created a situation in which not winning the WS is a failure so the focus is always on winning and at any cost.
Velocity does matter, but so does location and movement. Park threw a great pitch to a LH batter (forgot who it was) when the ball moved like a screwball into his hands. But Park’s location sucked all night, but let’s not kill him on one night. None of the other RP’s did much better.
Regarding the pen, I agree with those who say it is too soon to draw any conclusions.
However, for those who aren’t sold on Park and Mitre, have their doubts about the current version of Joba, and think Robertson should be the eighth inning guy, last night didn’t ease their worries any.
It odd that players are so loyal to the Sox especially when Henry seems to value them like another part of his hedge fund.
If it were me I would like to get paid and also know that loyalty flows in both directions.
“I don’t see this Joba being successful with fastball/slider. Makes no sense to scrap the other two pitches.”
Without that plus-plus fastball reducing down to a two pitch guy isn’t necessarily a great idea.
That said, he also tends to overthink out there so fewer pitches to select from might be better.
I almost wish they’d go with a no shake off rule with him. Whatever fingers go down you must throw that pitch.
RayVT April 5th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
GB
Munson took his share of flack too when the Reds ran on his arm (sidearm throws) like crazy. IMO, Posada is a better defensive catcher than Munson. Both were great hitters and leaders. It is a shame Munson died early.
But let’s not punish Posada for his defense when the pitchers were everywhere with their pitches. Also, Posada isn’t 28 yrs old back there. It is a 162 game season and more with post season. This is just 1 game.
Now if you want to list mistakes the players made so be it. Most everyone would not even recognize most of the mistakes made. Posada’s defense wasn’t bad, but it wasn’t Johny Bench great either.
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Once Munson damaged his shoulder, he was never the thrower that he had been. It just never healed, but, even with that submarine throw, I never saw a catcher get rid of a catcher so fast. The one game that I remember most about his defense was a game in 1971 when he had an error…his only error of the year. It took an elbow to the side of his head to knock him out cold and drop the ball in the second inning when andy Etcherbarren threw an elbow on a slide home. Nobody ran a game quite like Munson did and he didn’t care who the pitcher was. He used to really rag on Gossage, too. One game, Gossage comes in and Munson asked him how he was planning on blowing this game, and it was early in the ’78 season.
I never saw a catcher get rid of a ****ball**** so fast.
I almost wish they’d go with a no shake off rule with him. Whatever fingers go down you must throw that pitch.
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Where is Damon when you need him?
“If Romine continues to progress, he’ll be the backup catcher for the Yanks. Cervelli would end up being the odd man out.”
country club-
i think the catching competition is going to bring out the best in all the yankee catchers.
historically the yankees are at their best when they have really good catching.
the catchers themselves will separate themselves as time goes on . i remember when john ellis and munson came up together as young players.
they separate fairly quickly when they hit the big leagues. the talent rises.
ellis had a nice career himself though he was no munson.
i think all the yankee catchers that are part of the catching discussion will have significant mlb careers.
It’s a wee bit early to think that JC can’t recover his form.
Perhaps, it will take some time.
I do agree that he will be less likely to be successful just using 2 pitches unless either his command improves, or his velocity increases.
If this is now Joba’s max. velocity (which I doubt) then I agree with CB that he profiles better as a starter where he can utilize 4 pitches instead of 2.
The Yankees think the BP will help.
If, after a time, they see it is not helping I would have to think other options would be considered.
MTU (aka GBURL) April 5th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
GB-
One thing about Romine that you have pointed out is that he has an uncanny ability to interfere with batters.
Ever figure that one out ?
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He has had none so far this spring, so either he’s fixed the problem, or, it just hasn’t come up, yet. It is something to watch for, though.
“Pat, I’m not sure what you’re saying.”
Whether Derek or the Steinbrenner Family has an extra $5 million dollars in their bank account at the end of the day doesn’t matter to me.
Until they say whatever discount Derek gives them, they would give to me, I say pay away and get what you can.
A contract is a business relationship and not a sign of devotion.
Doreen-
Sure. It was certainly a boring round
Btw- Line ups getting leaked early on twitter could be a potential problem. I am not on Twitter, but last year I remember Rebecca would usually have the line up from her Twitter account before the Blogmasters had it up.
You may want to consider revising your posting window.
New thread re: video chat
of course location matters, actually matters more but if you don’t have good location then you had better have good enough stuff to get away with some location mistakes. Joba used to have that…he doesn’t now.
I agree CB, he should never shake. I also see the point about simplifying thing for him..its a give and take I guess.
Catchers in the house,
Did Martinez make a big mistake trying to throw out Jeter? I think the booth mentioned that Gardner was too far off third to even consider the attempt.
“historically the yankees are at their best when they have really good catching.”
One of the real pleasures of last night’s game was watching Granderson, Posada, Jeter and Cano playing together.
How strong can a team be up the middle?
One of the recurring reasons for why the yankees have had so much success over their history is that the franchise over and over has been able to find plus players at positions where most teams get minus production.
And the two positions where that’s been most drastically the case have been Catcher and CF.
Just think about how much production the team got last night from those two spots.
Then add in what Jeter and Cano did.
If those players stay healthy, the yankees are going to pummel teams by the differentials they create up the middle.
Erica, Country Club (to me, anyway – if I’m wrong CC, I apologize) was saying that Romine would be a permanent backup catcher to Montero. He’s too good to be a backup.
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I should have written a more detailed comment. i was replying to your comment about Romine probably never playing for the Yanks. I think he has a real chance of eventually being the Yanks starting catcher. But the likeliest scenario is that he’ll split time with Montero the 1st couple years of their careers. Montero will catch more games, but Romine will play plenty when Jesus needs a rest or when he DH’s.
If both develop like many think they will, Romine will eventually take the starting job when Jesus moves to a different position. But for the first few years, the Yanks will be very happy to have two young, cheap catchers that can hit on their roster.
Of course, with Murphy and Sanchez in the pipeline, who knows what the future really holds.
Doreen, Gardner was the worst against LHP in MLB last year. Winn? #2. As much as people bash ESPN, that was an important point they brought up last night. It’ll be Thames before Winn in LF tomorrow. IMO.
“Did Martinez make a big mistake trying to throw out Jeter?”
I was surprised he didn’t fake the throw and try to catch Gardner either at the plate or in a run-down.
Crawdaddy April 5th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
“They also created a situation in which not winning the WS is a failure so the focus is always on winning and at any cost.”
So what exactly should be their focus, if it’s not winning? Shouldn’t winning the WS be the goal every year? I agree that the team isn’t a bunch of bums if they don’t win it, but I don’t have any problem with the organization focusing on winning every year.
Gardner surprised me at the plate last night! I am not a Gardner fan, but as a Yankee fan I am glad he hit well. His speed is awesome on the bases. He needs to be on them more, LOL!
Granderson is a keeper! I love his CF play and his speed & arm. The HR was a thing of beauty & his working a walk from Okajima was super!
Country Club, ok – thanks for explaining. I like that idea……if Murphy can really hit, then re-convert him back to the OF.
Erica -
I did notice that about the lineup being made available on Twitter much earlier than the deadline. Thanks for reminding me. I will revisit the posting window, as well as the issue of a revised lineup being issued after the “official” one. I will figure this out by the end of the day.
(I really don’t want to have to follow Twitter. It is about 1/2 hour ahead of the posting here? Or thereabouts – anyone who is familiar with this, I’d appreciate your response.
)
Murphy and Sanchez are way down in the minors. We shouldn’t assume they’ll be even serviceable major leaguers until they’ve had some success at AA and AAA.
This Opening Day ceremony might be the best moment for the Mets all season.
Catchers in the house,
Did Martinez make a big mistake trying to throw out Jeter? I think the booth mentioned that Gardner was too far off third to even consider the attempt.
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M, the mistake wasn’t trying to throw off Jeter. He never even LOOKED to see where Gardner was when he popped up to make his throw. Beltre didn’t help playing so far off @ 3rd that Gardner could bounce twice and be halfway down the line. They both screwed that one up.
Doreen
You may want to check with Chad about how many hours before the game the clubhouse opens. Seems the line-up hits twitter once the media can get in.
Joekuh – 0-1, 161 to go! April 5th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
Doreen, Gardner was the worst against LHP in MLB last year. Winn? #2. As much as people bash ESPN, that was an important point they brought up last night. It’ll be Thames before Winn in LF tomorrow.
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Actually, I think they said Winn was the worst, Granderson second worst. And they mentioned that Gardner’s stats against lefties in ’09 were OK, although small sample.
Thames will get the shot, though, both because of Winn’s bad stat last year and because of the structure of his contract, which can double if he gets a lot of righty appearances.
Obama using a glove to throw out the first pitch? Didn’t help him throw a strike.
I think Gardner should be given until May at the very least to prove that he can be an everyday player.
His career OBP in the minors was .390 and his OBP last year was .345, a vast improvement over his rookie season. An OBP of .330 is considered “league-average” so he has actually shown quite a bit of potential to greatly surpass that.
I think we can all agree that no one cares so much about the power numbers, and that if Gardner just gets on base at an above average clip, it’s well worth keeping him in the lineup.
Timo, thanks for the correction. I knew after I typed it I messed it up somehow.
Who cares if Pres. Obama used a glove? Who cares if he threw a strike?
Posada blames alot of people for making mistakes, except he forgets that he is just as respnsible for them as well..