Vazquez: “I made a lot of mistakes in the zone”
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 09, 2010 
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Javier Vazquez seemed to cruise through his first three innings, but after he walked Ben Zobrist to lead off the fourth, his entire outing seemed to crumble.
“From the stretch he seemed like he wanted to rush a little bit,” Jorge Posada said.
Vazquez said it wasn’t only that his pitches were up, they were over the middle of the plate. And the middle of the plate is no place for a pitcher to be.
“Obviously you want to start out on the right foot, and to lose this game is disappointing,” Vazquez said. “First three innings I was doing a pretty good job controlling their lineup, but I made a lot of mistakes in the zone, and in the big leagues they get hit hard.”
Here’s the Vazquez postgame audio.
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• Francisco Cervelli will start tomorrow’s afternoon game against the Rays. “Jorge will be off tomorrow,” Joe Girardi said. “I’m not going to catch him too many day games after night games.”
• Vazquez is really the first of the new guys to get off to a terrible start. Chan Ho Park allowed that home run in the opener, but he bounced right back with an outstanding relief appearance on Wednesday. “You worry about a guy that’s younger more than you do a guy that’s experienced,” Girardi said. “Javy’s been through this.”
• Speaking of new guys who have been here before, Nick Johnson and Marcus Thames each got their first hits tonight. Johnson and Derek Jeter were the only Yankees with two hits.
• Every Rays starter had a hit.
• David Price was pretty dominant. Girardi praised his curveball, but both Posada and Mark Teixeira seemed impressed by his curveball, his four-seam, his two-seam and his changeup. “We hit a couple of ball hard off him, but he pitched pretty darn well,” Teixeira said.
• Speaking of Teixeira, he’s 0-for-16: “I’ve hit a few balls hard, but not enough to really feel great about myself,” he said. “Unfortunately I do this to myself every year. I just punish myself early on and then I get it going.”
• Girardi’s take on Teixeira: “I’ve got a feeling it’s going to happen tomorrow.”
• Solid work from Sergio Mitre, who allowed base hits to the first two batters he faced but retired the next eight in a row.
That’s an Associated Press photo of Vazquez after the fourth inning home run to Carlos Pena.
Park was able to get back out there pretty quickly. Javy will have his chance too.
Oakland just showed John “Blue Moon” Odom on TV. Man he looks old and he shouldn’t.
Just looked. Hard to believe that he’s 65. Solid pitcher for the A’s for a few years
Matsui with his 2nd homer tonight for Angels only run.
Betsy,
It is disappointing that Javy didn’t pitch better. He threw Ok the first 3 innings but just lost it a bit in the 4th and starting leaving pitches in the middle of the plate. Sometimes you get away with that and sometimes teams make you pay and it becomes contagious.. it kinda snowballed like that tonight and that happens sometimes. I think he’ll be fine and still think he’ll be a big asset this year.
They just ran into a buzz saw tonight with Price…with his stuff, if he locates his pitches and throws strikes nobody will do much off him. He just hasn’t been able to do that consistently thus far in his career, that may change this year.
Javier’s next start is against the Angels at home. He better get it done then and he better not even think about pitching like he did tonight.
Blake, he’s only human………so, although I vented (which made me feel better), calmer heads have prevailed. Javy is a good pitcher; how good? I don’t know – I’m not going to make crazy predictions. He’s certainly better than he showed tonight. I still think he could have been trying too hard to impress………and I think maybe he has a dead arm; remember that he started off-season workouts earlier than anyone else.
Repost:
I kind of hope the Angels pull out some wins. I don’t want them to come into YS 1-6 or something like that.
The Red Sox definitely have a tough assignment facing Grienke tomorrow, but I remember them getting off to a slow start last year and then pulling out an 11-game win streak, so I won’t hold my breath
Finally, I have a feeling the Yankees will win at least 1 game in Tampa. And all of us here would have signed up for a 3-3 start to the season, no?
Or what Frank, you’ll send a firing squad after him?
I got the impression that David Price was a 2 pitch pitcher, but young pitchers can do an awful lot of developing in just a few short months
Frank April 9th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
Javier’s next start is against the Angels at home. He better get it done then and he better not even think about pitching like he did tonight.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Or, what? You’ll stomp your feet…hold your breath?
eh, we’ll be fine. CC’s on the bump. He’ll bounce back. Tex and Arod will go on a rampage. we’ll see if i’m right tom
Betsy,
He made some bad pitches but the Rays made some good swings as well. Sometimes you get away with bad pitches with much less damage than that and sometimes you don’t.
He could very well have a little dead arm…looked like it in the last spring start I saw him throw as well. It’s still really early…
On another board, someone posted that Phil “had better step up”, lol. I wonder what will happen when he pitches like a 23 year old? Same thing that will happen if Javy doesn’t pitch well against the Angels, lol.
I just hope Vazquez doesn’t get booed during the home opener ceremonies. A good performance against the Angels would at least get the fans on his side so he doesn’t have that hanging over him.
“Girardi’s take on Teixeira: “I’ve got a feeling it’s going to happen tomorrow.” ”
It’s not exactly a bold statement to say that a player who is 0-16 is due for some hits, lol. Personally, I think Tex is really going to start heating up when he gets to YS. The Angels gave up a ton of HRs to Minny so they better beware.
Teix will be fine. Check out the post game.
Blake, you’re right. I’m probably just trying to find an explanation for something that doesn’t necessarily need one; as you said earlier, the best pitchers sometimes pitch poorly and the worst ones sometimes pitch well. Poor guy – you know he wanted to start off better than this.
If he pitches like he did tonight, the crowd is going to kill him at home. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if he got booed during the home opener.
These are the same people who booed Hawkins because of the number he wore…
RS, I hope so, too – but I can’t guarantee it, sadly. Yankee fans are……..well, Yankee fans. I believe they blame Javy and Javy only for 2004.
Nothing will happen – they will just get booed off the mound
Betsy
I blame steroids for 2004.
That entire Sox team was JUICED!!
“That entire Sox team was JUICED!!”
noo, they just Cowboyed up
I don’t even think about 2004 anymore; it doesn’t really bother me. LOL I’m not going to get into steroid talk tonight.
blake
lol
I’ll take JD off that list, because he’s Erica’s favorite (although he clearly was!) and Tim Wakefield, because he doesnt need the juice!
CR9,
Correct. But Major League Boston assisted Ortiz during his press conference to make him look like a victim and made it appear like he didn’t do it and the test results were false.
Where was that when A-Rod was getting hounded?
Betsy
2004 doesnt bother you? How did you get past it?
2001 still haunts me via nightmares!
Nick in SF…….I’m with you on every one of your 7 picks….In fact 4 of them ( Yanks, Astros, Giants , Twins ) were my big plays ( White Sox being the other )……..
I’ve blocked most of October 2004 from my memory.
It’s been a bit of a slow start for 3 of the AL post season teams last year.
My apologies ahead as this is slightly off topic but if true it could be good news for gamers, I believe this twitter account is offering a free videogame every month starting next month?
anyone else know if this is legit?
http://www.twitter.com/arcadesushi
Tonight was a one of those nights where a player sends a message to baseball. That’s what David Price did.
Best game he’s thrown in his career. He put the AL East on notice.
Last year price threw his curve ball 4% of the time.
Tonight 18% of his pitches were curves.
When he drafted, Price was the best amateur pitcher to enter professional baseball in several years.
He had a disappointing year last year. His command wasn’t great and he only had 2 quality pitches.
If he had the kind of year he did last year in NY everyone would have wanted him sent to the pen this year.
Tonight he was a 4 pitch guy who was locating. That’s who young pitching can work. It’s not a straight line for development.
He’s got that kind of talent. It’s why starting pitching means so much in baseball. No team in baseball was going to beat him tonight.
With Vazqeuz – it happens. No big deal. He basically had no fastball command. I was concerned going into this game for him because he really hadn’t thrown in a big league game situation in a while. He just wasn’t sharp.
Yankee fans should have tempered expectations for Hughes when he makes his first start as well.
Rauch is doing a very solid job as MIN’s closer.
That offense is good – they basically added Hudson, Thome, and Hardy to the team that was like 6th in the league in offense last year.
You know baseball is a funny game, I thought Javy pitched decent the first 4 innings and then BOOM it can all unravel….its ok folks. remember last year vs Tampa the first game, CMW was a disaster…that all worked out great..
CR, I did with 2004 what I did with 2001. The moment it was over, I accepted it and very purposely put it in the back of my mind (a dark corner of my subconscious actually). The next day, I didn’t read the papers, didn’t go onto web-sites (well, in 2001 I wasn’t into the Yankees on the internet), didn’t linger over the loss. I admit that I refuse to watch highlights of game 7 2001 and obviously I have no desire to see highlights of 2004, but aside from that, I don’t cringe when I think of 2004 (or 2001).
CB
Does Javy’s fastball top out at 90-91? With that, he has to have pinpoint control.
Also, does he have enough movement on his fastball?
Jesus!!! Give the “they did steroid” crap a rest. There hasn’t been a “clean team” since the mid-to-late 90s.
So the Yankees just accept that they ran into a buzzsaw and move on.
Fans who agonize over Phil and claim he’s a bust or overrated or a disappointment then should take a look at Price or other young pitchers. It should make folks feel better that – yes, Phil is NOT the only pitcher to have his ups and downs. In his case, he’s been injured, but even had he not been, we would have gone through the same growing pains that Price has (or still is – he could go out next time and get clocked).
My expectations for Phil’s first start are tempered because he’s young, very young – younger than Price. He hasn’t started in a “real” game in a long time; I think as long as we see flashes, we should be satisfied.
Jim
The guy that was defending Orteaze was so sleazy, it was sickening.
Betsy
I admire you for being able to do that. But I just can’t get past them. After Sori put us up in Game 7, it was ours. Oh well, maybe one day the nightmares will subside. Or maybe the Yankees will 4 peat in 2009-2012 and make me forget all about 2001!
I try to remember the positive of 2001, that Enrique Wilson would have died in a plane crash had we won, but did not go on that plane due to the loss. And he was one of Mo’s closest friends.
Vazquez is who he is, he’ll go 15 and 12 with a 4.5 era and log 230 innings, players usually play back to their baseball cards. He’ll be fine, what won’t be fine is left field and our weakness vs leftys since we will get minimal left field production vs left and right and get zero cf production vs leftys. Cashman assembled a band of turkeys to play left field and has a lousy bench. Should have saved the money from Thames, Winn, traded Gardner and just signed Damon. He can hit leftys, can play everyday, has experience, and good power in Yankee Stadium. The team as present in the outfield and at the bottom of the order is poorly constructed. Girardi has few bench options to help.
CB, what do you hope to see from Phil against the Angels……or even his next starts against the Sox and O’s? He’s a #5, so just on that fact alone, he’s not supposed to be great or even very good. Of course, expectations for his future are high and people are going to expect that he show more than a normall #5. The Yankees will give him a long leash because they believe in him; will fans ? I don’t know. I just remember those starts he’s had where he’s dominated major leaguers and I know he can do it: Texas x 2, Detroit…. I’m very anxious to see how his change fares in real games..
CR, the one loss that honestly bothers me most of all is the final game in 1995 against the Mariners. Whenever that stupid higlight of Griffey barrelling home comes on, I turn it off – I just refuse to deal with it. I know they won the next year and that the dynasty followed, buit that loss really hurt.
You don’t have to have pinpoint control with a 91 MPH fastball when you have a curve, change, and slider in your arsenal as well.
Vazquez won’t come anywhere near duplicating what he did in the NL (due to facing much weaker lineups in addition to pitching in a canyon like Turner Field) but he’ll still log 200 IP and be one of the best #4 starters in the game.
Seems like the Rays always put a hurtin’ on the Yanks early in the season but the Yanks tend to turn it around quickly.
The Yanks got hammered the first game of the season series last year (which was the Rays home opener) and they turned it around and won the next two.
I could see the same thing happening again this weekend.
Real Madrid vs. Barcelona tomorrow at 4
NYY opens the season with another bizarre schedule. 6 games and 3 off days in the first 9 days of the season. and all 9 games against 3 of the major contenders.
I’d settle for a 6-3 or 5-4 start.
I wouldn’t mind seeing another start from AJ like he gave us last year. We’d gotten tattooed in Baltimore and in the first game in Tampa; then, AJ went out and threw a no-hitter for 6 innings.
Vazquez is still building arm strength. His fastball is usually a tick higher – but he doesn’t throw hard (never has). He basically sits 90-92. His velocity is similar to John Lackey’s. His fastball usually has more movement on it than it did tonight.
But movement and velocity are just minor issues. The main problem was that Vazquez just wasn’t locating his pitches with the usual command. He was up in the zone and in the middle of the plate. Not pretty.
That’s why he got hit so hard. It’s the first game of the season and he hasn’t pitched on a regular schedule as the game 4 starter and off days interspersed to start the season. It’s really not surprising that he struggled with his fastball command.
All spring Vazquez’s off speed stuff was ahead of his fastball. It looks to me like he’s still building arm strength.
Betsy-
I don’t have any particular expectation for Hughes. It’s his first start of the season. It’s not going to be a big deal either way.
In general I’d like to see him command his fastball and throw his change with confidence.
More than that I’d like to see the team win.
Oh of course – we all would (that’s definitely a given).
If Hughes can win 10-12 games and pitch to a low to mid 4.00 ERA and strike out about 2 and a half batter to every walk in 165-170 innings, he’ll have real value to the Yanks. That should be all that’s expected.
Jim
Big game at the Bernabeu!! I’ll be watching!!
CB
Thanks for the info. No need to worry about Vazquez, then. He’ll be fine!
GB, you know people will be disappointed with that; they’re going to wonder when we’re going to see this kid live up to expectations. I hope the Yankees aren’t setting the bar too high; per Joel Sherman, they are so enamored with his change and 4 pitches that they think he’s a #3 “cloaked” (Sherman’s words) as a #5.
I’m trying to temper the expectations myself (but it’s very hard, lol). I thought Phil was fine as a starter last year (except for the Oriole game)….I just want to see him out there on a regular basis. He’ll have his bad games, but he’ll also have his great games.
I want the sux to face Greinke, so he can devour them! Let the Angels and sux go on a 15 game losing streak each.
Maybe, Tex if Cashman had prorated your pay, to 2 or three months in the season you’d hit!
thames better be off the lefty train for the next few.
he made me sick tonight.
i hope grandy hits better than 180. vs leftys this year or i will miss A-Jax even more than i already do [even with his 6 strikeouts].
just a question, if Jax is looked at as a younger version of grandy, why not just keep him?
i might be the only one that didnt like the majority [outside of the park pick up] of cahsmans moves this offseason
Betsy,
No worries about Hughes. The media and idiot fans are going to say what they want to say.
As long as he stays healthy, he’ll be fine.
Just leave the kid alone and let him pitch. He knows the media is going to say what they want and can’t do anything about it.
It won’t bother him.
Pat M, your picks helped guide mine…it hurt a bit to go against pessimist CB, but ultimately I had to go with my gut on the Gigantes. So far so good.
Jim & CR9 having a conversation.
I did that when there was nesting here.
Stop playing the defensively challenged Thames.
Rich,
How did Thames do in the field today?
m
He is the reason that Javy didn’t escape the 4th inning only down 3-2. He dove for a ball that Gardner probably would have caught, and it got by him allowing two more runs to score. When you are a bad defensive fielder, at least play it on a hop to minimize the damage.
GF, I will worry more than he does – there’s no doubt about that. Eh, I’m not worried about him – I’ m just excited; I have faith in Phil, always have.
Rich,
Oi. I clicked through gameday to see what happened. Nothing stood out except a lot of hits to LF & CF. Didn’t read through the game thread, so thanks for that.
As you know, I really value defense. I wish the Yankees did, too.
Betsy
Of all the games, that certainly bothers me the least.
It directly led to Torre and our championships.
And Griff is such a good guy, there’s really no better guy than him to succeed over us.
Nick
What were your thoughts on L
S T?!
Matthews: Vazquez picks up where he left off
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=5072499
Thames is here for one reason – to mash lefties. Today, we faced one of the nastiest lefties in the league. And he got a single off him.
You can sacrifice offense for some defense. Thames isin’t going to play every day, only when there is a lefty on the mound.
Anyone hear Berthume earlier during BBTN? They showed highlights of Vazquez giving up the HR to Damon and he said:
“Here you see Vazquez giving up a HR to future Yankee-great Johnny Damon to cause the biggest collapse in professional spots history” and you could hear the giddiness in his voice.
And next to him was Boston Olney giggling like a little school girl. Eduardo Perez and Glanville were classy and said nothing and actually analyzed the game.
CR, I’m no fan of Griffey; the guy still holds a grudge from when he wasn’t allowed in the clubhouse when he was a kid. I love his dad, however. Winning years afterward doesn’t really ease the pain for me…but, again, it’s not like I think about it. There’s no sense dwelling on painful losses.
“You can sacrifice offense for some defense.”
Yes. that’s why Thames shouldn’t start.
I thought the most recent episodes was one of the best of the season and maybe of the whole series, though what it all means is still a mystery. Apparently, Desmond is very special.
No, I don’t really watch BBTN anymore……..I don’t read articles on ESPNNY (and certainly not by Wally Matthews). This place is far more insightful…
PeteAbe
1. How did Marcus Thames become a platoon starter for the #Yankees? If they can’t do better than him, give Brett Gardner a shot. #grittygutty 4 minutes ago
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Couldn’t agree more
The Yankees have never beaten Price, who is now 2-0 with a 2.56 ERA in four starts against them.
Some lame pun about Thames mashing potatoes if he doesn’t start mashing lefties.
I am a huge fan of Desmond! After you’re explanation helped clear things up for me, this Tuesday’s episode was excellent!
I love Griffey, because IMO, he is one of the classiest modern day guys to ever wear a baseball uniform. It’s only a shame he never wore ours.
____
On a separate note, after what Ripken said about ARod, I would love it if Ripken was outed as a steroid user. That would also “give back” Gehrig his rightful record.
IMO, the only person that if outed, would shame baseball more than if Jeter was outed is Ripken.
The Desmond episodes are usually excellent, yes. I do hope he gets a happy ending, brotha.
Nick,
As you know, there are a lot of SF Gigantes fans here. Some of the fans are upset that they’re blacked out. How r is it that we’re blacked out? mlb channel and extra innings apparently.
I blame Ken Griffey’s dad for not explaining to his son why he wasn’t allowed in the clubhouse and how it wasn’t a big deal and certainly not grudge-worthy.
Just like I blame Paulie for not telling the fans to stop booing Hawkins.
Imagine how good the Giants would be if they traded Jonathan Sanchez for Matsui like we proposed?
So, Griffey Jr. is so dour because he wasn’t allowed to run around the clubhouse and stadium? Poor thing.
Billy Martin could have been a little more tactful.
He probably could’ve drunk less, too.
Seriously, at some point, people have to let stuff go. Me? I’m finally o.v..e…r….Alex’s…c.on….t..r..ac…
So, we’re going to win tomorrow? Who’s facing CC?
It’s why he hates the Yankees….to hold a grudge for this long is ridiculous. As I said, I love his dad; I will always remember the catch Sr. made one year. He climbed the LF wall, reached over to snatch what would have been a HR and then tumbled to the ground….classic, lol
“How is it that we’re blacked out?”
With integrity?
Er, I don’t know. Are the Giants broadcast there regularly? On TV, I mean.
Thames hit a hard single off Price. He has earned another start against lefty. Not sure who it is against… we’re not facing Saunders next week. Perhaps he’ll start in Oakland with Braden and/or Anderson starting against us. Maybe he will start 2 games in a row.
I was with some friends at a bar in the 80s and saw Billy Martin there. After asking the bartender what he was drinking, we sent him over a drink (Scotch and soda). He looked at it rather disgustedly. It later occurred to me that it must be tough to have a drinking problem, and have people (who, like us, didn’t know any better) sending you drinks that you probably don’t want, but have trouble not drinking them.
Thames is earning the right to be a PH, but losing the right to ever step foot in the OF.
Disneyland didn’t let me ride the roller coaster if I was less than 4 inches tall. But I didn’t hold a grudge, I got over it. And when I was allowed to ride it, I enjoyed it.
you want to start Thames in oakland’s OF?
that is a SCARY proposition.
I don’t know. Some guy called the local radio show just a little irritated that he can’t watch it on mlb.tv or extra innings.
Apparently we’re in the SF market.
I guess he has to settle for day games with Jon Miller.
“Disneyland didn’t let me ride the roller coaster if I was less than 4 inches tall. ”
Even in someone’s pocket?
Hey! David stole that line from Pedroia. -1 point.
Okay. It’s Davis (Kyle?). I predict a tough time at the plate.
No leftfielder is catching that slicing to the line bullet that was hit tonight…….You’re shooting blanks if that is you’re case for removing Thames from leftfield……We lived with Damon out there last season, so give it a rest…..Besides, he’s going to get PT out there whenever a lefty is on the hill….Get use to it………..Nick in SF, CB gave us the Astros, but I liked the Giants since last summer…..They’re for real
Damon is a much better OF than Thames. He may look lost tracking flyballs, but he usually gets to them.
Ugh, I did not know that Griffey hates the Yankees.
I may have to revoke my positive views about him. Nonetheless, his score led to 4 championships in 5 years. I’ll take it!
I figure this will get people to laugh. One trade deadline, I think it was the one when Randy Johnson went to Astros, there was talk of him possibly coming to us.
I was listening to the radio at the time, and Michael Kay posed the question of what number he would wear with us, since Bernabe was 51.
He then said that RJ might be the first player to have a letter on his uniform in place of a number, with the letter being “K”
But being in a team’s market (usually?) means access to its games on local tv, either broadcast or cable or satellite.
So if the Giants are being blacked out for your radio caller, there should be another method available for him to watch them.
The Yankees on YES are blacked out in the Bay Area when they are playing the A’s, but the games are available from the A’s channel.
Maybe the guy was just a dope?
Rich in NJ……Come on, how many routine fly balls did Johnny miss last season ??? It was more than a half dozen, I mean balls that simply missed his mitt……It was maddening and embarrassing……..Damon was out there because of his stick, nothing more……..Thames is below average indeed, but his right hand stick is vital for the club…..The key is, will it offset his deficiencies with the leather for 7 innings or so ????/
No leftfielder is catching that slicing to the line bullet that was hit tonight…
—
Gardner/Winn/Granderson/Swisher get that ball on the run. Thames was almost at it and he lumbered and dove.
No, Nick.
He wasn’t a dope (though he did sound like he was a transplant).
Apparently black outs are a problem. And as ‘tonloco’ says, “the Giants are over 2400 miles away.”
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/0.....ut-policy/
Face, that’s a stretch and you know it….Go back and look at the video…At first I thought maybe Brett because he’s lefthahded, but unless he got a great jump on the ball and even then I doubt, Marcus took 4-5 strides ( LONG STRIEDS AT THAT ) , and he missed it my a few feet…..That ball smoked and hooking away and towards the line……Look at the tape Face, You just may see the play differently
Are you sure?
Radio callers are barely above internet commenters.
Pat M
Yes, Damon’s defense was below average last season, but it was the first season it was negative by UZR/150 (-12.1 runs). But UZR for any given should be read as being within +10 and -10 runs, so he may have been only slightly below average. Thames is far worse (his UZR/150 in LF has been negative every single season, and in the last two seasons, it’s at least -25 runs).
Even if one wants to completely discount defensive stats, I think it’s apparent that observation leads to a similar conclusion.
As you point out, Damon’s offense compensates for his defense, but Damon had perhaps his best offensive season last year. I don’t think Thames can sniff what Damon provided offensively, even as a platoon player.
When the Yankees are right, they can compensate for one weak bat. Since they now seem to be a pitching-centered team, why not maximize their pitchers’ chances of success by playing what could be an above average defensive OF in LF, especially since Gardner’s career splits show that he is about as good (or bad) against LHP as he is against RHP, and he may still be improving, unlike Thames.
Pat m,
I saw the video. Thames has terrible foot speed. Trust me, at the very least our 3 speedier OFers would have nabbed it. Gardner has made that play a couple of times (grabbing a liner on the run) in LF.
Face, I’m back right now to look at the tape…..
Thames breaks on the ball and it hangs up enough that he, our slowest outfielder who does not even possess ‘game speed’ can almost dive for it. That had running grab written all over it.
Thames has really not distinguished himself in the outfield at all. I am not even going to say that the missed double turned the game, but even blocking that ball could have changed the outcome.
And I bet at the least, Gardner/Grandy/Winn block that ball.
Pat M,
The only thing stopping any of the speedy guys from getting to that ball is a bad jump. But it was straight forward. A pulled ball, where the ‘spot’ to run too is on a line perpendicular to the starting position of the outfielder.
But like I said, I don’t want to dump everything on Thames, but he really isn’t providing much more than what Gardner could provide.
Also Winn looks cooked. His swings are really just not there. I reckon he’s gonna make his living on trying to shoot stuff the opposite way.
It’s possible that
Its possible that Gardner with a guick jump and beiing a lefthanded gloveman, mayber he get sto knock in down, very tough play……..
“You worry about a guy that’s younger more than you do a guy that’s experienced,” Girardi said. “Javy’s been through this.”
Javvy, prove to us that your not damaged goods from 2004!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cashman may have made the same mistake he made with Jarrett Wright. The big difference is that we already lost a ton with Javvy. If Javvy’s performance is what I expect it to be, Cashman will have made the blunder of epic proportions.
Pat M -
I thought the same as you did when I watched the video of Thames’ play. I started to post something about that here, but deleted the post before I submitted it. It was something along the lines of, on second viewing that play didn’t look all that easy.
The worst thing that happened to Thames was misplaying the ball in Fenway. Because now every play he doesn’t make will be cited as a misplay, regardless of the difficulty. Maybe if he has a couple of “clean” games the hyper-attention to every play he’s involved in will settle down a bit.
I know he’s an average-ish outfielder. But I think when we fans have a favorite we go out of our way to find things wrong with the person playing instead of that favorite. It doesn’t help when the substitute goes ahead and makes a mistake.
At any rate, I think it’s too early in the season to become overly upset by losses and mistakes.
The only thing that concerned me about Javy Vazquez last night was that he got rattled by the Tampa speedsters on the bases. As Jorge said, he knows what he has to work on. I think his good outings will outweigh his bad. And, again, it’s too early to make sweeping judgments about anything.
I’m driving to LI today. I hope to be back in time for today’s game. Not that I look forward to any games on Fox.
Joe west’s comments fit last nights game. Pathetic and embarassing.. And is javy gonna suck like always or what?
We need help in LF. It is debatable that we can get by with Gardner-Winn and Thames. Thames is at best a DH or PH. Why not give Kevin Russo a crash course in playing OF to see if he fit here. He can hit. Doubt his defense could be worse than Thames. Only other internal option is Colin Curtis who had fine spring.
Beynond that, we will need to find help outside system via trade and I doubt that trade market will open up this early – unless there is another Raul Mondesi deal to be had.
Free Agent market could include Baldelli and Dye. Dye would need to play RF and flip flop Swisher into Left. I am surprised that Baldelli is not signed. When healthy he can help.
Dye can’t play anymore. That’s why nobody has signed him.
Don’t overreact to April losses. It’s childish.
They aren’t making trades and they aren’t in a state if panic over ONE game.
If they aren’t, perhaps the fans should do the same.
You insipd fools. Last night’s loss had nothing to do with left field.
I am not in a panic but I think our LF situation is not solid and our bats off the bench are not that good. We need another OF bat. I am not in love with Dye. That is why I am suggesting looking from within first. Why not Russo in LF. He can hit and play several infield spots. If he can handle some OF play then we have more roster flexibility. If Russo is not an OF candidate then try Colin Curtis. He played well in ST and I think he can offer more than Thames can right now.
***insipid***
It’s not a video game. They just aren’t going to put someone in the OF who has never played the OF before.
Russo hit in ST. How do you know if he can hit in the majors? You don’t.
They have played FOUR games. It’s too early to know if LF is a problem.
You are panicking.
Neither Russo nor Curtis is ready to take over in left field.
thames defense is a problem.
if you can’t catch a decent line drive, you shouldn’t be out there.
thames bat not the issues.
he cost the yanks 2 runs yesterday
Last nights loss was about David Price and Javy leaving too many pitches in the middle of the plate, it happens.
However I do think Thames’s defense is outweighing the probability that he contributes at the plate right now. I’d rather them see how Gardner fares or play Winn against lefties and keep Thames available for a pinch hit situation.
This is not about last night. It is an observation. Gardner has not proven he is an everyday player or a long term fit. Winn is at best a 4th OF. Thames is a disaster in outfield. He might provide some pop off the bench but that limits him to DH and PH. Granderson thus far has not shown that he can handle lefties and his career stats suggest that he cannot hit lefties.
Trademark of all Yankee teams is that we load up with lefty hitters because of short porch. Teams try to combat that by throwing lefties against us but pattern of great yankee teams is that our lefties usually hit lefties. If Gardner and Granderson cannot hit lefties then we are more exposed to lefties. Damon and Matsui hit lefties. Melky had better stats against Lefties as well.
Yanks let too much offense go in off season. I understand CAsh’s desire to get younger, more athletic and lower payroll. However, he left team exposed with weak LF rotation and Granderson at bats against lefties are not that impressive. that may change as he gets more work with Long and benefits by being surrounded with other impressive hitters.
In addition, Johnson is a solid hitter but because of lack of speed, he is better suited to lower part of the line up. A Damon type hitter belongs in #2 hole. If Granderson could hit lefties, then he would be ideal for that spot but as of yet that is not the case. I would like to flop flop Granderson and Johnson to see if we can take advantage of Grranderson speed and pop. Johnson is a patient hitter and I would rather see him up in #7 hole with men on base so he could be an RBI threat. Grandy might benefit by having the likes of Tex and Arod hitting behind him. Johnson does not need Tex and Arod behind him in order to get better pitches to hit. He is a disciplined hitter and can hit in his sleep or work counts and take the walk.
teddy gbu April 10th, 2010 at 8:53 am
thames defense is a problem.
if you can’t catch a decent line drive, you shouldn’t be out there.
thames bat not the issues.
he cost the yanks 2 runs yesterday
———————————————————————————————————————-
And the lost by 6 runs. The only one that could have caught that ball was possibly Crawford, only because of the fact thahis glove was on his right hand (closer to the foul line). That catch would have been sinilar to sandy Amaros’ catch in the 1955 WS, because the glove was on the right hand.
The National League is glorified AAA, that’s where Vasquez belongs. Take Marcus Thames with you, he is painful to watch in the field & at the plate. Give the AB’s to Gardner.
no any below average fielder catches that ball. thames defense is that bad
Yanks let too much offense go in off season. I understand CAsh’s desire to get younger, more athletic and lower payroll. However, he left team exposed with weak LF rotation and Granderson at bats against lefties are not that impressive. that may change as he gets more work with Long and benefits by being surrounded with other impressive hitters.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Too bad that the Yankees couldn’t have let go of some of their “intelligent fans”.
Any way you stack the lineup 7 of the 9 hitters hit lefties just fine . That’s plenty enough to win…P
Blake,
That may very well be the case with Thames.
You would agree though, we need more than 4 games to know that.
Biggest play of the game was Navarro’s hit.
0-2, 2 outs, you get Navarro, it’s a 2-2 game. Instead, the floodgates opened.
Last year at this time, Nick Swisher pitched in a blowout game here in Tampa.
The same folks in a tither this AM, were declaring the season “over” after that game.
You would think they would learn not to overreact to early season games by now.
Thankfully, Steve, you are behind a computer and not managing the Yankees and trading for Vernon Wells after four games.
Except for one season, Navarro hasn’t shown that he can hit any pitching except the Yankee pitching. He drives me nuts.
Damon was 1-6 with 2 walks vs. Price. Matsui never faced him (I assume between Matsui’s knees and the fact the Price doesn’t have a lot of MLB experience yet would acccount for that).
I don’t think Damon or Matsui would have made a difference in the Yankees offense last night.
The Yankees, so far, do not do well against Price.
I will say Matsui had always done well in Tampa, though.
I’m not so certain Gardner makes that play; and even if he does, the Yankees scored all of three runs.
I don’t understand the overreaction to the 4th game of the season. I really don’t. And I don’t get the idealized citations of Damon and Matsui, much as I liked them a lot, as if they were flawless players.
Let’s say Damon plays that ball better than Thames did and makes a throw home. Does anyone think that any fewer than two runs would have scored? Or has Johnny now developed a flawless arm, too?
Let’s let them play a month of baseball before jumping ship, maybe?
Everyone knew that the first 9 games of this season were going to be tough. And they have been. And they’re 2-2.
So, when Vazquez pitches well this year, which he will, are you going to post the same nonsense?
The offense certainly didn’t have trouble scoring runs in Boston. There is nothing wrong with the offense.
This team has won World Series with guys like Chad Curtis, Ricky Ledee, Shane Spencer and Clay Bellinger logging considerable time in LF.
Every LF on the roster is better than those guys.
That’s why that “evaluation” theory holds no water.
And let’s not forget – if Damon were back, he’d be back as the DH and a PART-TIME left-fielder. He was not being sought after for his defense.
And Brett Gardner has NEVER misplayed a ball in his life, right?
Sheesh. Perspective, people.
Look last night was more about Javy getting hit hard and Price being very impressive. However, looking at the longer term view I think we have some issues:
1. LF is unsettled and I am not sure Gardner-Winn and Thames will suffice.
2. Granderson is very athletic, fast and has plenty of pop but he looks very suspect against lefties.
3. Posada defense weaknessed are becomming more difficult to overlook. The guy can still hit but if he is not catching then he has to DH and that means Johnson sits.
4. CErvelli improves our defense but we lose offense with him in hte lineup but not as much as we did last year when Molina was our back up.
5. We let Matsui go because he could only DH and we wanted to rotate guys in our DH slot to give regulars a blow. However, that means Johnson sits and he does not have another position other than 1st and Tex is going to play 150 + games at 1st.
6. bench depth in terms of offense is again weak. Cervelli and Pena give us defense and they are fine role players but we lose way too much offense if they are forced to play for extended periods of time. With them in line up and our LF situation then our vaunted offense looks less imposing.
Bright spot in my view – despite Vazquez performance last night is pitching. I like our 1-5 guys and I think the pen is fine as long as Mo stays healthy and does not show signs of decline
.
They also had a right fielder not known for sterling defense playing in left field on championship teams in Daryl Strawberry.
Girardi was very adept last year at rotating his players. I think he’ll manage to do the same this year.
Steve = Captain Obvious and Incorrect
1 – Obvious and known.
2 – Obvious and known.
3 – Not true.
4 – Obvious and known.
5 – Not true. NJ was signed to DH, no rotation.
6 – Obvious and known.
Only children on the Internet make “long term” team evaluations after four games.
Especially when many of them are incorrect.
How ’bout you chill out and let the season unfold before you conclude this team has so many weaknesses.
“I got the impression that David Price was a 2 pitch pitcher, but young pitchers can do an awful lot of developing in just a few short months”
so you think that actually starting a major pitching prospect two years in a row is a smart way to develop a starting prospect ?
interesting concept
Anytime that you have two rookies as defensive replacements like Cervelli and Pena that play defense and hits .298 and .287 with minimal playing time, you can count your team as fortunate. A lot of veterans don’t hit that well and play tough positions as well as they did.
I never said Johnson was not signed to be primary DH. He was because of his tendency to get hurt and because Tex is going to play 1st 150 + games at first barring an injury. What that means is that Johnson sits when Posada needs to DH more or when you want to give Jeter or Arod a 1/2 day off.
I am a huge Posada fan. I love his passion and his offense. his defense is getting weaker.
SJ,
HOW DID YOU ENJOY JAVY’S STERLING PERFORMANCE LAST NIGHT? HE SURE LOOKED EXACTLY LIKE THE SAME PITCHER THAT TANKED THE LAST HALF OF 2004 WITH NY…STRAIGHT-AS-AN-ARROW 90MPH BATTING PRACTICE FASTBALL GUY THAT CAN’T STEM THE TIDE AND GET THE BIG OUT.
MAYBE HE’S “INJURED” AGAIN?
Jeter SS
Johnson DH
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Granderson CF
Cervelli C
Gardner LF
…Tes, please come through today!
I do not blame Thames for not catching that line drive. I doubt anyone was going to get that. I do think that Thames has very little range and in YS that is a weakness because LF is very spacious. The guy is a defensive liability and while he has pop that does not offset his defensive liabilities unless you are going to use him more in DH role against tough lefties. I still think that Johnson is better offensive option against lefties than Thames is.
Dan,
I enjoyed the game. Unlike you, I don’t panic over April baseball.
Great thing about trolls like you is, once the team starts rolling, you crawl back to your hole.
Just like last year.
THAMES PALES IN COMPARISON TO SOMEONE LIKE CHAD CURTIS, WHO SJ LOVES TO DENIGRATE. IIRC, CURTIS AVGERAGED ABOUT .260 WITH THE YANKS, PLAYED SOLID DEFENSE AND EVEN GOT SOME BIG HITS. THAMES WILL GIVE NY NONE OF THAT.
Hey Pena and Cervelli are fine role players. I am not being critical of them. They do not replace Arod/Jeter/Cano or Posada in terms of offense. Sample size on them is rather small so it remains to be seen if they will grow into better offensive players.
SJ,
C’MON, WHAT DID YOU THINK IF JAVY? WHAT LOOKED DIFFERENT ABOUT HIM THAN IN HIS TENURE WITH NY? I SURE HOPE HE’S HURT BECAUSE IF HIS FASTBALL IS THAT LIFELESS WHEN HE’S HEALTHY, THEN THE YANKS WILL BE LOOKING AT CHIN MING WANG DISASTERS EVERY FIVE DAYS.
Chad Curtis was also better than Winn and Thames are. It remains to be seen what we have with Gardner. WE all love Gardner’s speed and he gives us an extra gear in line up but he has to show an ability to get on base consistently.
I like players who work counts. Gardner lets too many hittable fastballs down the pipe go. He needs to jump on some of these pitches. Pitchers know that he had tendency to take these pitches so they get ahead in the count and then they can get Gardner to chase pitches he does not handle well.
If Gardner can turn into a Brett Butler type of player then we have something. As of now no one knows for sure. I would rather we play him full time to see how he does than have him sit against lefites. IF you want him to sit against Lefties then play Winn in LF but his numbers from right side were down last year
Pena and Cervelli don’t have to hit any better than they did last year. They aren’t going to be full time player unless there are catastrophic injuries, in which case, NYY will still need to bring up replacements. They aren’t going out and trading for frontline replacements.
At this juncture of season trades are not options. Pena and Cervelli are fine if they repeat what they did last season. They both make contact, so even when they make outs they can help by moving runners up a base. They both have speed and their posie and defense is very good.
SJ,
Oh absolutely. This game means nothing in the grand scheme of things but Thames’s defense has been well documented and we can’t expect it to improve at this point in his career. It is what it is. That play wasn’t the deciding factor in the game but it is pretty apparent how little range he has out there.
In what world was Chad Curtis a better ball player than Randy Winn? Certainly not on offense or defense.
sj44-
as a fan i hope the yankees get off to a good start, but really they are just jockeying for position for the first 4-5 weeks.
what i really hope for is the team to be healthy. in the past i used to be really down on the conditioning of the yankees and a lot of injuries were the norm at his time of the year when players finally stepped on the gas and played for real.
the overall team conditioning seems to be much better and we’re not seeing the team having chronic hamstrings, for example, hitting multiple players like a flu bug going through the team.
veteran players are not going to play like it’s september in a pennant race. they are going to ease into a season. a young team like the rays is going to be playing at a higher intensity than a veteran team like the yankees.
i think it’d be actually smart to have veteran starting pitchers to be throwing closer to 80 pitches in a first start than trying to stretch them out to 100 or more pitches so quickly. the yankees will however do it the way they always do. there will be some uneven performances as the starters aren’t really in mid season shape yet.
they are a veteran team and it takes a while before they come up to speed. when they do, they will likely be the best team in baseball. as we say every year, they just need to stay close the first month.
Curtis had more pop in his bat. Winn is at tale end of his career. Curtis was a suitable role player and he was productive in field and at plate when he was with us.
GB7,
In a world where only 2010 ST stats are counted.
SJ aren’t you always cautioning the rest of us not to over-react to the trolls? Methinks you need more spring training to get into regular season shape!
Kidding aside, there’s nothing to be concerned about here. Does Gardner make the catch Thames didn’t make? Probably, but its not a news bulletin that Gardner is the superior defender. Vasquez had excellent location for three innings and then everything was up… he paid the price, period.
When you have a lineup like the Yanks and infielders who normally play 150+ games all you want on the bench is competent defense for those guys.
Lefties are killing Granderson away, away and away. He’s got to learn to poke those pitches to the left side, move up on the plate or it won’t get better. Still has hit the ball hard a couple of times with nothing to show for it.
At least Sox lost last night. They have holes too. I still think we are best in AL east. Tampa is a good team but they have some holes too. If their pen improves then they willl be a tough team this year. They have a great offense. I just love Ben Zobrist.
Thames will get some playing time in left field, but, he’s not platooning with Gardner. Lester and Price are tough enough on veteran left handed hitters, much less rookies or 2nd year players. Winn is more likely to share the majority of time in left than Thames will.
How did Curtis have “more pop” than Winn? Curtis was finished at age 32.
NYY only needs to worry about their own games….not Boston’s or Tampa’s. They only control the records of the teams they are playing on those days.
GB,
I agree. I think they will either just let Gardner or winn play everyday eventually or platoon the two. I’d say Thames played these two games because of who pitched them.
It didn’t help much with the Yankees going after the first or second pitch. Price’s pitch count was
able to stay low. H e pitched into the 8th inning. Javy hopefully will rebound.
Sports writter Verducci of SI, seems to think the Rays are the team to beat in the AL East, and projects the Yankees 2nd. We shall see!
Blake, have you looked at the interleague schedule as to whether the yanks have another 9 game stretch in NL parks?
Winn is a very good defensive player in all three outfield spots. I’m anxious to see whether Winn is able to put together solid at bats as a part time player after 13 years as a starter. To his credit, he hasn’t made an issue of it since signing.
in four games so far, granderson has seen lester and price.
that’s no going to keep happening.
he’s going to start seeing more average lefties at some point and then we’ll be able to tell more how long’s instruction is helping him.
Gb,
I haven’t really looked ahead at the schedule.. I agree on winn. He’s being a pro about the situation it would seem..I’m guessing he will get a shot eventually if he’s patient.
new thread
Good point about the type of lefties Grandy has seen thus far. Time will tell if he can improve his numbers against lefties overall. I do like Granderson overall. He is very fast and athletic. He covers a lot of ground in CF, which is great. In terms of his batting, he has real power. The ball jumps off of his bat so I think his power numbers will translate into 30+ homers. I would love to see him show gap power where he can get double and triples and now focus on short porch in RF at YS. He needs to use all fields. If he does then his numbers will likely be in the .285 to .300 range.
I’ve said it all off-season. Javier Vasquez was the most overrated acquisition any contending team made all Winter.
The press bought all this nonsense the Yankees perpetuated about an arm injury in 2004 and his All-Star first half. He had an All-Star first half because he was a novelty in the AL. In the second half, he underwent the customary regression to the mean.
In the American League, Vasquez has a lifetime 4.45 ERA, and during his time with AL teams, he has pitched below a 4.00 ERA ONCE. (In 2007, he posted a 3.74 ERA for Ozzie Ozbourne.)
In Joe West’s division, Vasquez is no more than a 4th starter who consumes innings.
If Burnett and Pettitte don’t stay healthy, the Yankees are in trouble.
“You insipd fools. Last night’s loss had nothing to do with left field.”
Project much, GB?