Pregame notes: Winn gets first start
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes, Podcast on Apr 15, 2010 
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Ninth game of the season and we finally have our first major lineup change. For the most part, the Yankees have kept the same batting order this season, making minor tweaks depending on whether they’re facing a left-handed or a right-handed starting pitcher. Today, with lefty Scott Kazmir pitching for the Angels, Brett Gardner and Nick Johnson are out of the lineup and Randy Winn is making his first start.
“You want to keep all of your players active, and I thought today was a good way to do it,” Girardi said. “(Kazmir) can be tough on lefties, though. There’s no doubt about that.”
Winn is used to being an everyday player, but he’s moved into a bench role with the Yankees. He said the most difficult thing about taking so much time off is getting used to the timing and the speed of the game. It’s been eight-plus years since he played a bench role, but Winn said he remembers how to keep himself sharp.
He also said not to expect much when he gets his first Roll Call this afternoon.
“Probably in line with my personality, it’s going to be nothing spectacular,” he said. “It will not be anything like Swish does. I can assure you that.”
Here’s Girardi’s pregame media session
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• That’s an AP shot of Derek Jeter with Matt Ryan, Wayne Gretzky and Landon Donovan at a Gillette event yesterday.
• Every Yankee will be wearing No. 42 in honor of Jackie Robinson tonight. The Yankees clubhouse seemed to be lined with nothing but Mariano Rivera jerseys. Rivera himself said the number he always wore as a kid was No. 5, though he has no idea why. As for Rivera’s thoughts on Robinson: “What he went through and what he did,” Rivera said. “I don’t think I would have done it.”
• Girardi said Phil Hughes is not on any different pitch count than any of the Yankees other starters. He can got a little over 100 pitches at this point.
• Girardi also said Hughes’ next start does not depend on this one. He’s the fifth starter for the foreseeable future. “It’s not like we’re going to push the panic button if tonight doesn’t go OK,” Girardi said.
• After Alfredo Aceves pitched an inning and two-thirds yesterday, Girardi said he would rather not use Aceves tonight.
• As for bullpen roles, Girardi said he’s a little closer to having some defined spots, but “there are still some things we have to see.”
• To make room on the roster for Kazmir to come off the DL, the Angels designated OF Terry Evans for assignment.
The Angels also made some changes to their lineup for this series finale.
Erick Aybar SS
Bobby Abreu RF
Torii Hunter CF
Hideki Matsui DH
Kendry Morales 1B
Howie Kendrick 2B
Mike Napoli 2B
Brandon Wood 3B
Reggie Willits LF
LHP Scott Kazmir
wonder if the yankees have decided how to control phil’s innings this year..
hopefully they go the porcello route and not the joba route.
swish batting in the 2 hole. hmmm. did anyone win gtlu today?
muffinstump -
No. William Buckner came eversoclose (flip-flopped Grandy & Thames), but Girardi out-smarted everyone else. And there were a lot of different lineups submitted today.
GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
For those whining about Thames being in the line-up (AGAIN- and there have been plenty), he’s 5-15 with a double and a homer against Kazmir. The only two that hit him better are Posada and Teixeira. Maybe they should bench Jeter and Rodriguez, who are hitting .111 and .125, respectively.
http://www.baseball-reference&.....as=pitcher
I didn’t know Mike Napoli was that versatile. hehe.
Day off for Johnson that I get, Thames power hitting swing and miss guy that kills LHP, that I get…why is Gardenhoser out for Winn?
doreen,
buckner comes close again, huh…i like it when girardi throws the occasional curve at the gltu crowd.
bet your spreadsheet was a sight today.
“That’s an AP shot of Derek Jeter with Matt Ryan, Wayne Gretzky and Landon Donovan at a
Gillette event yesterday.”
Chad, I recognize the first name there, but I have no idea who the others are — probably a bunch of nobodies?
The forseeable future? Unless Phil completely blows up, he should be the 5th starter for the rest of the year…..Joe was not exactly definitive, now was he?
Tyler Clippard vs. Shane Victorino with the bases loaded.
I feel like I’ve seen this story before, but last night there were none out and it was Brian Bruney’s mess that Clippard failed to clean up.
This time Clippard is more successful though he did walk home a run.
Someone anyone….why is Gardenhoser out for Winn?
and to add further to GB’s point
Thames and Winn were signed at a total cost of about $3mil for the express purpose of giving the Yanks RH hitters when facing a tough lefty.
This really their main if not only roles on the team.
It’s early and Girardi wants to get these guys some playing time to get going and be productive members of the team.
If not tonight when exactly?
Brandon’s Awesome (I make throws more awesome than Bernie ever did) April 15th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
Day off for Johnson that I get, Thames power hitting swing and miss guy that kills LHP, that I get…why is Gardenhoser out for Winn?
———————————————————————————————————–
“You want to keep all of your players active, and I thought today was a good way to do it,” Girardi said. “(Kazmir) can be tough on lefties, though. There’s no doubt about that.”
As for tonight’s game, any guess on Hughes’ Pitch Count After Two Innings?
I’m guessing it will be in the 52-55 range — coincidentally, the same average range for Joba, iKen after two innings for their typical starts.
Phil’s first start last year was 6 innings against Detroit. He gave up 0 runs and the Yanks won 11-0. That would be sweet tonight.
Bastardo vs. the Attorney General!
I never saw so many multi-millionaires in one picture. They need to be taxed ultra hard!!!! Yeah go Oblahvez!!!
California April 15th, 2010 at 5:22 pm
As for tonight’s game, any guess on Hughes’ Pitch Count After Two Innings?
I’m guessing it will be in the 52-55 range — coincidentally, the same average range for Joba, iKen after two innings for their typical starts.
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You mean like Jon Lester’s last start?
That would assume those 15 at bats most likely spread over several years are predictive of future success and therefore significant enough to keep a superior hitter out of the lineup who has never faced Kazmir and hits LHP very well.
I really do not care much at all and I never really care when I see the lineup. I just do not see why NJ needs a day off. I also am not particularly fond of Thames bat at all.
BJK, thank you buy…
Winn career .200/.333/.200 vs SP Kazmir
Why the hell…the reason Gardenhoser is doing bad is b/c Gi Joe keeps sitting him vs LHP, showing no faith in him. Randy Winn isn’t exactly Matt Diaz batting here in Gardenhoser’s place.
muffinstump -
I use a list manager format. No fuss, no muss!
BJK
You beat me to it.
Maybe Lester is back to his 100 pitch 5 inning days of the beginning of his career.
“I just do not see why NJ needs a day off. I also am not particularly fond of Thames bat at all.”
NJ is as brittle as they come. Think of this night off as insurance.
Brandon’s Awesome (I make throws more awesome than Bernie ever did) April 15th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
BJK, thank you buy…
Winn career .200/.333/.200 vs SP Kazmir
Why the hell…the reason Gardenhoser is doing bad is b/c Gi Joe keeps sitting him vs LHP, showing no faith in him. Randy Winn isn’t exactly Matt Diaz batting here in Gardenhoser’s place.
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I’d like to see Gardner get at-bats against lefties too. And he will. Today’s just one of those days it makes sense to get Winn some work. Makes sense.
LGY, is it logical to suggest that NJ ‘need[ing] a day off’ is the primary consideration here?
Since Girardi probably doesn’t think that NJ needs a day off, that probably wasn’t a primary consideration; more likely it’s that Girardi wanted Thames in the lineup but didn’t want his defense on the field AND wanted to give Winn a start while also sitting Gardner vs. Kazmir.
So something had to give and NJ will be available to PH as soon as Kazmir is knocked out of the game and it won’t require any kind of double switch.
Today, with lefty Scott Kazmir pitching for the Angels, Brett Gardner and Nick Johnson are out of the lineup and Randy Winn is making his first start.
?You want to keep all of your players active, and I thought today was a good way to do it,? Girardi said. ?(Kazmir) can be tough on lefties, though. There’s no doubt about that.?
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Before last year, this was mostly true. Last year though, Lefties were actually better against Kazmir than Righties.
Who knows, maybe Girardi pushes the right buttons with Winn and Thames tonight. It’s still the wrong call though. Not every lefty is so tough that Gardner or Johnson can’t hit them. Johnson, in fact, hits to the tune of a 30 point higher average against lefties than he does righties in his career.
‘I’d like to see Gardner get at-bats against lefties too. And he will. Today’s just one of those days it makes sense to get Winn some work. Makes sense.’
Makes sense? WTH makes sense there, other than his fielding he shouldn’t even be on the 25 man roster.
Melkman
Nick is 32 years old. He doesn’t need to be rested *8* games into the season where he hasn’t picked up a glove yet. He’s not made of glass!
Please don’t mention that Winn and Thames are drawing salaries…it’s a sensitive topic for some that wanted to keep Melky.
Winn has only had 5 at bats against Kazmir. Kazmir is less likely to knock the bat out of Winn’s hand and, he’s a better outfielder. He also needs some playing time.
It appears that there are at least two ways to look at baseball. What I see here are both macro and micro perspectives. IMO anyway, those who can apply the macro perspective are much more able to look at the season as constantly unfolding, are able to apply greater overall objectivity because they don’t look at each game as a must win, and also don’t get terribly distracted by moves the manager makes. IMO the people who are more micro oriented tend to be overly worried about each and every game, don’t necessarily see each game as part of a continuum but rather look at every game as a must win, and are overly concerned about all managerial moves and who ends up in each lineup because they can’t look past the present game and afford it the same level of importance as macro people lend the entire season.
I would say that one definite level where the macro perspective is superior to the micro is that the maco fans don’t tend to worry as much as the micro, especially about things that are totally out of their control.
GB, I would say you are definitely a macro guy. That’s a compliment.
Mebbe Girardi doesn’t want to hear “Party in the U.S.A.”?
NJ doesn’t need a night off. Girardi’s playing his bench like his bullpen, trying to keep everybody fresh. It really comes at the expense of Gardner, who is the least “everyday” everyday LF I’ve ever seen.
Brandon’s Awesome (I make throws more awesome than Bernie ever did) April 15th, 2010 at 5:30 pm
Makes sense? WTH makes sense there, other than his fielding he shouldn’t even be on the 25 man roster.
——————————————————————————————–
But he is on the 25 man roster, and you want everyone on the 25 man roster as sharp as possible. If there’s an injury and Winn needs to fill in, at-bats will be useful for him.
And it makes sense that if you’re going to rest a player, do it on a day that may give the most problems. Kazmir is a tough match-up against lefties.
“Who knows, maybe Girardi pushes the right buttons with Winn and Thames tonight. It’s still the wrong call though.”
If the Yankees win, under what criteria could it considered the “wrong” call?
Boy, Roehtlisberger looking worse and worse.
murphydog
Do you think he has to worry about “keeping guys fresh” a week and three days into the season where we’ve already had three off days? I can understand Winn in LF because you want to get him time. He’s on the roster and should play here and there. The argument for him is whether he belongs on the roster at all.
Johnson should be in the lineup tonight though.
It’s really a pity that Ryan Braun can’t maximize his talents. He’s only 4-5 with a homer, 3 RBI and an outfield assist and hitting just .378 this year.
Nobody need a day off. It’s the 2nd week of the season and there has been 3 off days. i’m pretty sure everyone is well rested.
Kazmir gets to the 7th inning tonight w/ those moves.
“Do you think he has to worry about “keeping guys fresh” a week and three days into the season where we’ve already had three off days?”
Keeping the guys ON the bench fresh, by giving them playing time, not the starters.
Nick,
I agree with you and I definitely see the logic here. I understand the move and I very rarely voice concerns over the lineup, but I just do not think Thames should be anything more than a PH on this team. NJ needing a day off was more in response to other posters saying that.
Personally, I am not willing to sacrifice at bats for NJ to get Thames in the lineup. He is a superior hitter and an integral part of this lineup.
Thames is the 25th man on this team and barely made the team at that. He could very well be off this team come July if a better opportunity presents itself at the trade deadline. Therefore, I do not see much of the reason to get him going at the expense of better baseball players.
“If the Yankees win, under what criteria could it considered the “wrong” call?”
B/c our 3, 4 batters are not in tune…8,9 doesn’t have any punch. And the pressure is put on Robi and Hughes for tonight. Atleast he wasn’t stupid enough to bench Granderson too.
No matter how bad Hughes performs tonight, it will still be half a good day — as the Red Sox already lost.
“Thames is the 25th man on this team and barely made the team at that. ”
Good gracious.
This is Thames 3rd start in 9 games.
You might want to consider the ideal that Joe Girardi’s view of Marcus Thames is not exactly the same as yours.
stuckey
You know who needs a day off? Teixiera. He’s 3-fer-the-season and they all came in one game.
How about we play Johnson at 1b and sit Tex. That way we can have Thames DH and Winn in the OF, keep the bench “fresh” and give Tex a mental health day.
“B/c our 3, 4 batters are not in tune…8,9 doesn’t have any punch. And the pressure is put on Robi and Hughes for tonight. Atleast he wasn’t stupid enough to bench Granderson too.”
I’ll ask the question again, and suggest you pay closer attention this time around.
IF the Yankees WIN, under what criteria could the line-up be considered the “wrong” call.
He has to get Randy Winn some AB’s. Why is that so difficult to understand?
You can’t have the guy rot on the bench.
As murph correctly states, he’s getting guys AB’s.
I kinda think he knows what he’s doing, given his track record.
stuckey,
Are you saying that Thames is not the 25th man on the team and barely made the team.
He is the only player on this team (outside of the BP) who was not guaranteed a spot. He was the only offensive player on the team whose job was in jeopardy at the tail-end of ST.
“You might want to consider the ideal that Joe Girardi’s view of Marcus Thames is not exactly the same as yours”
Very true. It’s between they way it should be and the way it is.
Doreen,
I was wondering if you’re including Girardi in the GTLU standings?
Is Liriano back ?
7 innings of shutout ball against the Sox w. 8K’s.
Either way, thank you Mr. Liriano.
“You know who needs a day off?”
You know who needs to answer the question asked?
You.
“IF the Yankees WIN, under what criteria could the line-up be considered the “wrong” call.”
B/c it’s a win in spite of stupidity. Hence ‘wrong’ call. It’s like if Kei Igawa wins a series clinching gm. in the playoffs in place of CC. Not exactly the right move.
Thank you, Trisha. It’s the way I grew up in the military. You use the best talents you have available that day to maximize your impact. Unless a person is given a chance, never let them rot on the vine of inactivity. If you don’t use somebody, you’ll never find out if they can get the job, done.
another thing that I learned is to never panic. If the leader panics, it increases troop mistakes 10 fold. That has been Torre’s and now Girardi’s biggest assets. They’ve seen about everything and they don’t scare. They also build in a certain amount of controlled risk into their decisions (playing on a gut feeling).
“IF the Yankees WIN, under what criteria could the line-up be considered the “wrong” call.”
If Winn and Thames strike out every time and Swisher, batting 2nd instead of 8th, lashes a foul ball into the dugout and injures Nick Johnson and… argh, damn you Fallacy of the Predertimed Outcome!!!
Trisha-
Hope you’re feeling better ?
You talked about a Macro view.
I like a big bowl of Macroroni with cheese.
Tyler Clippard held them and my Nats just made it 4-3.
They definitely know how to score runs.
Winn definitely needs to get some at-bats. He is the 2nd option for LF if Gardner falters.
Thames is not capable of playing everyday and is probably not even good enough defensively to be in LF at all, so they need to see what they have in their back up plan in Winn.
One other thing, Trisha. I saw your comment this afternoon about the first 6 comments in the Robinson thread was by women. I wanted to comment on that statement but decorum and self-preservation of internet life and limb caused me to change my mind.
Brandon’s Awesome (I make throws more awesome than Bernie ever did) April 15th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
“IF the Yankees WIN, under what criteria could the line-up be considered the “wrong” call.”
B/c it’s a win in spite of stupidity. Hence ‘wrong’ call. It’s like if Kei Igawa wins a series clinching gm. in the playoffs in place of CC. Not exactly the right move.
——————————————————————————————————-
Not sure I get the outrage here, Brandon. It’s not like Gardner is sizzling hot right now. If Granderson were sitting today, I’d get your issues about this. And just to be clear, I like Gardner. I just don’t see how not starting him against Scott Kazmir is”stupidity”.
“IF the Yankees WIN, under what criteria could the line-up be considered the “wrong” call.”
If I jump off of a bridge and DON’T die, under what criteria could that choice be considered the “wrong” call? #logicallyconsistent
There may be an argument for playing Thames but an after the fact “Well we won” probably isn’t it.
“Are you saying that Thames is not the 25th man on the team and barely made the team.”
I’m saying evidence suggests that, yes.
I haven’t seen ANY evidence that Colson, Winfree, Curtis, Weber ever had a shot to make this team. Which means Thames was perhaps a lock to make it.
If you were to suggest that due to performance it was likely or even possible Thames was going to lose out to one of them, that’s purely your unsupported hypothesis and based NOTHING on what the Yankees said, did, or have done.
And again, three starts in 9 games suggests to me that if nothing else, Thames is ahead of Winn on the depth chart to start the year.
Isn’t that a reasonable conclusion based on the EVIDENCE?
Or do you have another theory why Girardi has given a start every third game to the last guy on the bench?
B/c it’s a win in spite of stupidity. Hence ‘wrong’ call. It’s like if Kei Igawa wins a series clinching gm. in the playoffs in place of CC. Not exactly the right move
——————————–
But they still won. The series clinching game. Win is win.
Anyone know what the weather is like in the Bronx? It looks nasty on LI. Thanks!
Thames was not guaranteed a contract going into ST. He had multiple people competing with him, Hoffman included, in order to get a spot on the team. You cannot possibly say a guy with a minor league contract was a lock to make the team.
Winn has always had a guaranteed contract.
I just don’t get the complaints about the lineup; this is still a damn god lineup. Not only that, but what exactly is wrong about wanting to get Winn some playing time? Joe is looking at the big picture.
Not to crazy about Johnson being out of the lineup. Atleast he didn’t put Thames in the field.
Ryan Zimmerman!! Doing his best Gibson.
And now former Yankee great, the Attorney General steps to the plate for the Nats.
Betsy-
“this is still a damn god lineup.”
Then they’ll never get anywhere.
Betsy, the sun is shining and it’s warm and clear. Of course, I’m a couple of miles south of the Bronx.
trisha,
Your post makes a lot of unsupported and probably incorrect assumptions. For example, I have said before I very rarely criticize the lineup, but when I do you are assuming I care at all what the lineup looks like when 7:05 strikes the clock and the first pitch is thrown.
You have quite a knack for tooting your own horn while at the same time passively insulting other people.
YES!!!!!
Ryan Zimmerman just hit a pinch hit homer to give the Nats the lead. He and Dunn are both on my fantasy team. I sat them both this week, Ryan because he was hurt, Dunn because he wasn’t doing much.
Both just hit homers.
But really
because they’re my team to love, after the Yanks.
Stuckey
Don’t make it out like I am ready to call for Girardi to be fired or anything. I just think the idea of sitting Johnson against Kazmir in favor of Thames is a dumb one and it’s a mistake Girardi seems to make a lot when it comes to lefty/righty splits.
GB-
If you have a good attitude the Sun always shines.
LGY, however you’re not the manager of the team. The Yankees think that Thames can contribute and they want to see what he’s got – that’s what it comes down to.
GGBG -
At this time of year it’s not so much keeping players fresh as it is not letting your bench guys get particularly stale.
LGY, nobody called you out.
You’ve got to pretty much ignore Brandon. He’s been pissy since the Yankees passed on picking up Erick Threets a couple of years ago.
Doreen-
“At this time of year it’s not so much keeping players fresh as it is not letting your bench guys get particularly stale.”
It would be helpful if bench players came with a “born on” date like beer.
That way they would never go stale.
Lou Piniella is a glutton for punishment if he signs on to manage the Cubs beyond this year. A lesson in futility.
Let’s give back wins every time a manager makes a move that works out despite the fans’ misgivings. Wow – this is almost as bad as the guy on another board who said that he considered AJ’s start in Tampa bad because he only struck out one and who said that he would rather a pitcher give up 8 runs and striking out 6 instead of 2 runs striking out 2.
m -
Yes I am including Joe G in the standings.
Doreen
I’m not really against Winn over Gardner so much – though I think I’d rather see Gardner. For me, this is really about Thames over NJ which I think is just silly.
MTU, talk about a freudian slip. GB, ship some of that sunshine up here, lol; I will be ticked off if there is a rain delay.
“B/c it’s a win in spite of stupidity. Hence ‘wrong’ call. It’s like if Kei Igawa wins a series clinching gm. in the playoffs in place of CC. Not exactly the right move.”
“There may be an argument for playing Thames but an after the fact “Well we won” probably isn’t it.”
[sigh]
The 2009 NY Yankee, managed by Joe Girardi, far outperformed EVERY team in the league against LF pitching. 2nd team wasn’t even close.
Now, was that a product of having GREAT RH hitters? Yes?
Was that a product of having 4 switch hitters? Yes.
Was that a product of having lefties that hit lefties? Yes.
But what I can say is Joe Girardi led his team to the best record in the majors by a wide margin, and again in the post-season. And he did it better than anyone against lefties.
That’s indisputable fact.
Can ANY of you complainers offer any actual evidence to support the notion that Girardi’s mixing and matching resulted in any lesser winning percentage than days he went with the “normal” line-up?
Did any of you have the mental discipline (much less ability) to keep track of how often the Yanks won or lost on days you complained the line-up was “stupid”?
Can any of you right now refute the notion that the Yankees actually didn’t lost those games in any greater % than the games they won on those days?
Get back to me if any of your can answer those questions…
And if your answer is it doesn’t matter, over the course of a full season of the actual results are less relevant than YOUR opinion, then save us both the time and effort.
Betsy,
I know. If you look at my earlier post in this thread I said I actually do not really care what the lineup looks like.
I thought it was a mistake when Thames started the first 2 times and it turned out to be a mistake. I think it is a mistake tonight. B
ut, I am not losing any sleep over it and when the game starts I hope Thames contributes.
Girardi is trying to keep Nick healthy. Lowers the chance of injury.
Gardy can come in as pinch runner.
hey GB, hope all is well.
trisha,
I know you did not call me out. But, your post was in response to people criticizing the lineup. I was one of those people so I drew the conclusion I was one of the people you were referring to. If not, I apologize. However I still think you are drawing assumptions about people.
“Don’t make it out like I am ready to call for Girardi to be fired or anything. I just think the idea of sitting Johnson against Kazmir in favor of Thames is a dumb one and it’s a mistake Girardi seems to make a lot when it comes to lefty/righty splits.”
Read my previous email. if you got any evidence to suggest this mistake he makes “a lot” cost the Yankees wins last year, let’s hear them.
And if you don’t, don’t just sulk off still clinging to the idea… consider and learn.
I guess Girardi wanted a good defense for Phils start. So Winn gets to play LF & Thames’ RH bat gets to DH. Gardy is available to do what he does best, pinch run. NJ can pinch hit against a RH reliever. Personally I like the lineup.
Winn was signed for outfield depth, not to hit lefties. You don’t sign a guy who had a .384 OPS vs LHP last year to hit lefties.
Winn needs some playing time and at bats, but not versus a lefty who could be tough when Winn has only had 2 plate appearances all year. Joe should have waited and given Winn his first start against a righty, even if it meant sitting Nick Swisher or Nick Johnson.
GGBG -
I had a strong feeling that Winn would play today. He hasn’t started a game yet this season.
I guess Girardi had an idea that Thames would do well against Kazmir – he’s got a HR against him, right?
If Gardner were particularly “hot,” I would question it. But Thames is not playing the field, Winn is a good outfielder, and, well, I guess I don’t see the big deal in sitting Johnson for Thames at this point.
I may not have done that; but I don’t think it’s a horrible thing to do.
GB, I try to emulate that approach. I find it the most practical way to deal with any situation and especially situations over which I have no control. It’s the “cooler heads prevail” way of doing life.
**************
LGY if you reread my post there are words that let you know that I am voicing my opinion. IMO means in my opinion. I used it several times. I also said “it appears”. I’m sorry if you take humbrage at what appears to me to be the case and the way certain things on the forum present IN MY OPINION.
That’s on you. And again, nobody singled you out. You felt the need to self report.
I actually think I put forward a pretty sound definition of two of the ways people on this forum operate in terms of gane processing. Feel free to come up with your own. But always be sure to use IMO. It lets astute readers know that you understand that not everyone might see it the same way, but that’s the way you see it.
Thanks!
The decision to play Winn and Thames was a good one.
I would have benched Teixeira and played Johnson at 1st. He could use a breather to collect himself. Johnson just had a big day at the plate last game and I don’t want him out of his rhythm.
Putting Winn and Thames in, however, was a great decision. He has to play them sometimes. What do you guys want? The bench players to never play? Then they’re useless – won’t have batspeed or timing or confidence.
DaSaint007 April 15th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Girardi is trying to keep Nick healthy. Lowers the chance of injury.
Gardy can come in as pinch runner.
hey GB, hope all is well.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Thanks for the kind thoughts, Simon. Everything is going great. I have a follow-up check-up in Tampa later this month, and if all goes as expected, I can bring the dog home, hold the twins and walk into a bank without a mask on. Hope all is well on your end.
“Thames was not guaranteed a contract going into ST.”
You’re taking a literal point and trying to make it a pragmatic one.
No, a guy with a non-guaranteed is no guarantee to make the team. That, taken literally, is indisputable.
But effectively, that does NOT mean his position was tenuous. You cannot extrapolate Joe Girardi and Brian Cashman’s THINKING just because Cashman astutely got Thames to agree to the contract best for the Yankees.
Your analysis of this is entirely superficial – that because his deal wasn’t guaranteed, and he struggled, he barely made the team.
You have NO way of knowing that.
GB7 -
Hoping for the best for you at the checkup!
Wave Your Hat April 15th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
I think Winn has a better chance to get a hit off Kazmir than Gardy does. So Winn is a good choice. Thames has hit Kazmir in the past, so he is playing. Both Gardy & NJ will most likely still play tonight. Winn is probably a better LF than Gardy as well. Phil may need the defense.
“Hoping for the best for you at the checkup!”
Seconded.
GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2010 at 6:06 pm
Thanks for the kind thoughts, Simon. Everything is going great. I have a follow-up check-up in Tampa later this month, and if all goes as expected, I can bring the dog home, hold the twins and walk into a bank without a mask on. Hope all is well on your end.
*************************
GB, will you have the pleasure of seeing Nurse Karloff during your check-up??
Hope all goes well
charlestonchew April 15th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
Tex has really hit Kazmir in the past & he is a terrific defender. You don’t take your #3 hitter out of the lineup against a tough LHP when he is a switchhitter to put a LH bat in his place.
Thank you, Doreen. I’m most appreciative of the thoughts. Now, all I need to do is get Ray (sox fan) to send “Killer” home. He’s been up there terrorizing Ray’s attack poodle, “yaz”.
GreenBeret7
Wish you the very best!!!
trisha,
I do not want to take this discussion any further and I do not want to get into an argument, but saying IMO does do not give you a pass to passively insult people.
I think you may IMO Betsy every other day and you IMO’d Nick the other day with the contract talk
I hope Hughes renders all this lineup talk academic by throwing a shutout.
“trisha,
I know you did not call me out. But, your post was in response to people criticizing the lineup. I was one of those people so I drew the conclusion I was one of the people you were referring to. If not, I apologize. However I still think you are drawing assumptions about people.”
My post was a response to what I have seen happen on this forum over the last two seasons. I did not see any posts in particular. One thing about the way I read the forum is that I tend to skim posts and I am typically reading content and not concentrating on who is doing the talking. Most of the statements I make are intended to be generic and not focused on any posters in particular.
I believe what I outlined is a pretty accurate depiction of two ways people on this forum process games. And I think it can be applied to sportsfans in general, and maybe to the way people process life in general. I started by saying there are AT LEAST two perspectives, and I talked about two that I notice here. The truth of the matter is that it was in reading GB’s post that I thought about the two extremes and spoke about it as a generalized way that fans process baseball.
I see nothing wrong with postulating that people who use a more overall perspective tend to worry less. I think it would be hard to shoot holes in that.
Erin April 15th, 2010 at 6:09 pm
GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2010 at 6:06 pm
Thanks for the kind thoughts, Simon. Everything is going great. I have a follow-up check-up in Tampa later this month, and if all goes as expected, I can bring the dog home, hold the twins and walk into a bank without a mask on. Hope all is well on your end.
*************************
GB, will you have the pleasure of seeing Nurse Karloff during your check-up??
Hope all goes well
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If I knew how to stick out my tongue at you on the internet, I would.
Thank you, Erin. I appreciate the thoughts.
Thanks, Ray. I figure the worst that can ever happen to me is a head injury that causes me to root for the Red sox, so this isn’t bad.
Thanks for the kind thoughts, MTU. I appreciate that.
GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
LOL! At the rate the RSox are playing you could be their only fan! The rest will be talking about the Pats & 2011.
stuckey,
I do not even know why we are discussing if Thames is the 24th or 25th man on the team. What is the purpose of that? It has nothing to do with whether he should be starting tonight. It has already been a mistake to start him twice, so even if he is the 24th man on this team you can make the argument he should not be. And if Gardner goes down he is not capable of being an everyday player.
They would not have picked Hoffman in the Rule 5 Draft if he had no shot to make the team. Hoffman was not competing with Winn. He was competing with Thames.
If you want to argue all night about whether Thames really had the team made out of ST go ahead, but I am not going to get wrapped up in it when it does not really pertain to the discussion. I would say most on here recognize he was not guaranteed a spot.
LGY, I guess I have to say that I don’t answer to you on anything and I don’t particularly care what you think of what I have to say. And if you feel insulted, oh well. You have hardly come to an insular place when you decide to post your opinions on a forum.
And it appears that you might be the only one who feels “passively insulted” so I’d say you might be the one with the real problem here. Anyone who feels accused when someone makes general observations really needs to look inward.
I’m done. Continue to obssess if you desire.
GB, I’ll be thinking of you – and thinking positively. You’re going to get to see your wonder twins soon – yay!
GB-
” I figure the worst that can ever happen to me is a head injury that causes me to root for the Red sox, so this isn’t bad”
That would indicate a rather severe head trauma.
However, I think it normally takes a Lobotomy.
GB, you’ll be fine.
I’m working on one of America’s Next Supermodels for you.
trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 15th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
Great answer. I wonder if some of these folks are children or grownups that never left their childhood.
“For those whining about Thames being in the line-up (AGAIN- and there have been plenty), he’s 5-15 with a double and a homer against Kazmir”
If decisions are being made based on sample sizes this small, maybe Thames should replace Teixeira.
Ah yes, Erick Threets. He’s really been tearing up the league.
Nice to see I haven’t missed much while I’ve been making dinner.
What’s the big deal? Randy Winn needs to play. What are you going to do, leave him on the bench until there’s a problem, then expect him to perform miracles?
Stuckey — You’re stomping your feet and saying Joe Girardi is a better baseball man/mind than me or anyone else on this board so we can’t question why he would play a far inferior player in the rubber game of this series? I know that. He’s better at baseball than me, and you both physically and mentally (unless of course you’re somehow employed in a playing or coaching position in pro baseball, lol I don’t.). Should we call it a and go home than? Joe’s right everyone, nothing to say here.
That’s your argument as to why Marcus Thames should start over Nick Johnson on a given day, because Joe says so? I find that hard to believe, because while I have the utmost respect for the manager I think there can be times he isn’t right. Call it a function of being human.
You’re asking for some evidence that the team would have won more games than it did if Joe used different lineups and that, I’m sure you know, is an impossible task. I could just as easily ask you to prove to me that the lineups he used for the losses weren’t somehow screw-ups. You couldn’t do that.
The only issue I’m pointing out is that Thames is a far worse hitter than NJ. I get the idea of keeping the bench involved, I just don’t understand the love affair with Thames. All this being said I’m sure Thames gets a hit or two tonight but that won’t really change anything as in that SSS he still isn’t a better hitter than NJ.
“I do not even know why we are discussing if Thames is the 24th or 25th man on the team.”
i don’t either. I simply responded to a point you seemed intent on making.
“They would not have picked Hoffman in the Rule 5 Draft if he had no shot to make the team. Hoffman was not competing with Winn. He was competing with Thames.”
ANNNND so you keep discussing it… lol
Until you can answer why Thames has gotten the mod instead of Winn, this IS pointless. It’s not like Girardi didn’t have an idea that might face a lefty every series and was surprised when the season started.
“I would say most on here recognize he was not guaranteed a spot.”
And most would arguing an irrelevant point.
David in Cal April 15th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
LOL! Tex is hitting over .600 against Kazmir I believe. So if you are a numbers guy try again.
Curtis Granderson is my main man. Just throwing that out there.
MTU – hi! Sorry I got involved in a little conversation and didn’t get to see your post until now. I’m feeling better by inches but am actually thinking of getting the prescription I returned the other night because the cold is still nagging.
I wanted to tell you in case you didn’t see it on the other thread that I am trying to become the attorney for the RI SPCA. I have to see what the rules are on prosecuting misdemeanors when it comes to animals (is government affiliation necessary). I will do it pro bono. The man who’s in charge definitely would appreciate the help. So I’m keeping my fingers crossed and trying to get information.
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GB, I only mentioned the female thing because it made me happy to see all the female representation and also made me think back to the time that I posted on the Times Ys forum and was the only female. (not always so much fun)
trisha,
You said your way of enjoying baseball is superior to others and then now I need to look inward because I have a real problem. lol.
Maybe those who are more micro oriented are better suited to know what players actually play for the Yankees. Ian Kennedy must have flown under the macro radar
.
DaSaint007 April 15th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
GB, you’ll be fine.
I’m working on one of America’s Next Supermodels for you.
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Why am I getting scared? I can see you trying to build one in your laboratory.
Rob NY April 15th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
If they don’t play Thames in April they won’t find out if they need to proceed to plan B. Looking at the numbers the team has against Kazmir, I suggest anyone that has shown some success whould play.
you guys argue baseball as if it were life and death or as if you were writing a college thesis, why don’t y’all get a life, get away from here and enjoy baseball?
this ain’t nuclear physics…and you ain’t professors, although some of you are holier than thou philosophers, baseball experts and lawyers.
RayVT – thank you!
And wow oh wow. The Nats just scored three more runs! This is thrilling to watch.
Now to see if Matt Capps can save it for them. I say yes.
Trisha,
GB, I only mentioned the female thing because it made me happy to see all the female representation and also made me think back to the time that I posted on the Times Ys forum and was the only female. (not always so much fun)
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There was just so many things that I thought of to say, but, I turned coward.
Trisha-
Thanks for the response, and I hope you feel better soon.
RI SPCA would be very lucky to have you especially gratis.
GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
DaSaint007 found a brain marked “Abby” Normal for his model creation!! She’ll definately be a RSox fan!
Did anyone hear about this? Apparently Jay Z sued David Ortiz…
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertai.....d=10387563
Thanks for the kind wishes and thoughts, Betsy. I appreciate that.
“You’re stomping your feet and saying Joe Girardi is a better baseball man/mind than me or anyone else on this board so we can’t question why he would play a far inferior player in the rubber game of this series?”
Not sure there was an actual question in there, but I NEVER say you can’t, or have the right to.
I’m addressing how smart you are to do so.
“Should we call it a and go home than? Joe’s right everyone, nothing to say here.”
For a couple of line-up positions, on the 9th game outta 162?
Yup, that. pretty much that’s what I’m saying.
“That’s your argument as to why Marcus Thames should start over Nick Johnson on a given day, because Joe says so?”
No. My argument is anyone who micro-analysis slight line-up variations on a daily basis to the point of questing a manager’s intelligence (which HAS occurred) demonstrates a lack of understanding about how the game is played over 162 games.
And I say similar things to fans who “analyze” (i.e. complain) about things on an inning-per-inning and AB basis.
There is a BIGGER picture some fans don’t see because they’re too busy freaking out about trailing Anaheim 3-1 in the 5th on April 14th.
“You’re asking for some evidence that the team would have won more games than it did if Joe used different lineups and that, I’m sure you know, is an impossible task.”
Glad you’re big enough to admit it.
” I could just as easily ask you to prove to me that the lineups he used for the losses weren’t somehow screw-ups. You couldn’t do that.”
I don’t need to. I have a relevant, practical, blanket answer.
Joe Girardi couldn’t have done better in 2009 than he did.
RayVT April 15th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
DaSaint007 found a brain marked “Abby” Normal for his model creation!! She’ll definately be a RSox fan!
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I was born with a 6th sense. It tells me to never trust a saint bearing gifts. And this “gift” has all of the ear markings of a supermodel that makes Nurse Karloff look appealing.
Forty/Forty club. lol
“this ain’t nuclear physics…and you ain’t professors, although some of you are holier than thou philosophers, baseball experts and lawyers.”
Mick, for some of us, not being stupid isn’t an effort. It doesn’t take away from our day.
We can actually chew gum, watch baseball, and not be stupid all at the same time.
RayVT — Yeah, this is why I’m glad I stayed (for the most part) out of that old school v. new school argument during ST. I understand the idea of playing anyone who has shown success but my argument, for the most part, is play your best players. The small sample of at bats Thames may have against Kazmir isn’t really at all predictive of future performance. I suppose that’s just the different way folks view things.
I can admit that I think Thames is pretty much dead wood on the roster so I guess I’m just bias.
LGY -
YAWN!
Now the one thing I learned here is that people really get annoyed when petty arguments consume the forum. I’m not going to engage your need to act out any longer. Kay? So you can talk to the hand after this.
**********************
“why don?t y?all get a life, get away from here and enjoy baseball?”
Good idea mick.
Enjoy the game all.
GO PHIL HUGHES!!!!!
Tex has had the most success against Kazmir of anyone on the team in his career so maybe this is exactly who he needs to face tonight.
Again I ask if the main role of Thames on this team is to provide RH power when we face lefties then why exactly would he be sitting on the bench tonight people?
This by the way is the same Marcus Thames who’s first pitch seen in the majors was a 99mph fastball from Randy Johnson that he deposited 440ft into the “black” in CF at the old Yanks stadium.
Randy happened to be the best pitcher in the game at the time.
I think he deserves 2-3 abs tonight. It’s the right call to play both Thames and Winn and Tex def stays at 1B.
NYY626 April 15th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
Did anyone hear about this? Apparently Jay Z sued David Ortiz…
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertai…..d=10387563
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That’s weird. And Alex is friends with both of them-I wonder who’s side he’s on.
GB, I’m hurt. And don’t listen to RayVT. Never a ‘sox’ brain.
Really, you’ll be pleased with the results. And don’t worry, it’s not Suzyn Waldman.
It’s understandable for Girardi to use his 24th and 25th players if the scouting reports show it’s worthwhile. If they are to be contributors during the season, hitting out of batting cages goes just so far. Girardi tries to squeeze some playing time wherever he can do it.
Some teams play a virtual 23 man roster for most of the season because a manager either can’t or won’t have confidence in his full compliment of players.
stuckey
you go on proving to the world how not stoopid you are, i’m going to watch the game and enjoy life, not pontificate about it.
THE NATS!!!!
Gonna see if Matt Capps has already been taken in my fantasy league.
Rob NY April 15th, 2010 at 6:35 pm
Not a problem Rob! He probably is, but I guess Joe G is trying to catch lightning in a bottle with him. Thames is a streak hitter & a streak out! LOL!
That said, I believe Winn has a better chance against Kazmir than Gardy.
Nice win for the Nats. Hopefully, we’ll be all smiles in about 3.6 hours.
He couldn’t have done better than he did in 2009? Why not? The logic of that … there is no logic to that.
In the scheme of things you’re absolutely right and it really is an academic point being made here that I’d rather see the best players play. It’s just a topic of conversation before the game starts.
DaSaint007 April 15th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
LOL! I’m not Ray the Sox guy! Been a Yankee fan since I was 4.
Erin April 15th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
NYY626 April 15th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
Did anyone hear about this? Apparently Jay Z sued David Ortiz…
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertai…..d=10387563
**************************
That’s weird. And Alex is friends with both of them-I wonder who’s side he’s on.
___________________________________________________________________________
LOL it would be wrong if he didnt side with the 2009 honorary 26th Yankee.
Sorry RayVT! My bad.
NYY626 April 15th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
Erin April 15th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
NYY626 April 15th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
Did anyone hear about this? Apparently Jay Z sued David Ortiz…
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertai…..d=10387563
**************************
That’s weird. And Alex is friends with both of them-I wonder who’s side he’s on.
___________________________________________________________________________
LOL it would be wrong if he didnt side with the 2009 honorary 26th Yankee.
*******************************
My thoughts exactly.
“He couldn’t have done better than he did in 2009? Why not? The logic of that … there is no logic to that.”
Division title. Homefield throughout. Rotation and bullpen properly rested. World series crown.
Exactly what could he have achieved that he didn’t? The practical stuff he aced.
You guys wanted him to do it with more style points?
Game post up
Betsy – Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 15th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
LGY, however you’re not the manager of the team. The Yankees think that Thames can contribute and they want to see what he’s got – that’s what it comes down to
========================================================
So, you also will indorse this statement, right?
The Yankees think that Gardner can contribute and they want to see what he’s got – that’s what it comes down to
173-0
Every player batting 1.000
Every pitcher with a 0.00 ERA
Mo with about 60 saves
Ha-Ha
Ortiz opened a Forty/Forty club as opposed to Jay-Z’s 40/40 club.
Instead of 40 HR/SB it’s 40 pounds overweight and 40 GIDP.
The menu?
40 flavors of milkshake.
DaSaint007 April 15th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
GB, I’m hurt. And don’t listen to RayVT. Never a ’sox’ brain.
Really, you’ll be pleased with the results. And don’t worry, it’s not Suzyn Waldman.
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If you can guarantee a Nancy Newman look-alike, I’ll be thrilled. Love those eyes and smile. Not interested in someone that looks like she was created on a surgeon’s table.
GB-7
All the best with your scheduled checkup and get back here very soon. Hopefully you don’t address Nurse Karloff as “Quimo sabe”. Perhaps Ms. Whitecap would be suitable.
GO Yankees !
Stuckey — No sense in clogging up the game post with the topic since… the game is starting, but Joe could have done better by winning anywhere from 1 to 60 more games. That’d have been better.
Joe is a great manager, he won the whole thing last year and I got to go to the parade. But to say that every lineup he puts out there is unquestionable for the mere fact that he put it out there doesn’t make sense to me. What if he DH’d CC? Would that be worth talking about? I’m not jumping off a bridge because NJ didn’t get the nod, I just disagree with the logic of “5-15 means he has Kazmir’s number”. That’s all, and thought I could talk about it on… the lineup post.