Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Today in the Journal News on Apr 15, 2010 
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Javier Vazquez made his home debut last night and was booed off the mound. Vazquez allowed four runs — one scored after he left the game — and the Yankees lost 5-3, having been overwhelmed by Angels starter Joel Pineiro.
With the series split, the Yankees will try to win it tonight when Phil Hughes makes his season debut. The notebook also has items on Joe Girardi’s World Series ring, Nick Swisher’s fake ring and the return of Angels starter Scott Kazmir.
To be honest . . i don’t thiink Vasquez pitched all that bad !.. He was facing the Angels .. not the Royals ..
MIke RI April 15th, 2010 at 9:31 am
To be honest . . i don?t thiink Vasquez pitched all that bad !..
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Me either!
I much prefer night games.
SI_JonHeyman just saw hal steinbrenner outside regency. i recall his bro smoking cigs, torre in very spot 2 1/2 yrs ago. hal’s an upgrade
Come on people- Quiz Time
Why is this date significant in Yankee history??
(No cheating!!!)
Phil just needs to get past the first without too much damage; that’s when his emotions are going to be at the highest.
Erica, because all of the Yankees except Jeter pay their taxes?
Who would you rather have in LF next year:
Player A
29 Years Old
.296 BA, .335 OBP, 104 OPS+
Player B
31 Years Old
.287, .358, 107
why did my post just get blocked? Is there a new lohud anti bashing Vasquez feature?
GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2010 at 9:37 am
Erica, because all of the Yankees except Jeter pay their taxes?
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Nope-
I’ll give you a hint. It happened in the 50s
Can’t be Ellie Howard’s ML debut in 1955, because that was yesterday.
GB7-
Nope. No more hints either. THINK!
Funny thing about Javy and 2004. He didnt pitch well, but he at least got a win in the series. He had to play Kevin Browns Caddy who pitched a whopping 3 and 1 third innings in 2 starts. The whole team was to blame for 2004…hell, even Mo blew 2 saves.
As Girardi said yesterday…Javy kept them in the game. He didn’t pitch that bad. Probably should have been more careful with Morales but up until that point the Yankees were right in the ballgame. They just did hit yesterday and that happens.
I have no idea what Heyman’s tweet means. Has he been drinking this early?
“Is there a new lohud anti bashing Vasquez feature?”
A site upgrade?!?!
Phil is ready. He’s healthy, has command of 4 quality pitches and last year pitching out of the pen he learned to trust his stuff, attack hitters and he developed confidence. Although he is still young, he’s had enough ML experience, both good and bad, to know how to handle things on the mound. I think he is in store for a good season. I look forward to watching him pitch tonight!
Erica…is tomorrow your favorite day of the year?
must be Mickey Mantle’s ML debut
Blake –
I agree; Javy wasn’t the problem yesterday – the Yankees just didn’t hit. 9 times out of 10 if you give up 4 runs the Yankees are still going to win that game.
The thing I’ve never gotten is why some Yankee fans seem to take pride in the whole “this guy can’t handle playing here” mantra and thus when it’s suggested that a player might not thrive under the pressure of New York they go out of their way to up that pressure (as in booing him off the mound after an average showing)
Sorry if this has been posted, but Melky and Hinske got their rings!! Really cute picture:
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-b.....ees-bling/
I’ve seen people mention concern over Javy’s velocity; maybe he’s still going through a dead arm period. He started off-season workouts early – maybe too early?
Oh brother, a Cardinal fan argued with me, over Yankees fans booing their own players. This of course is the reason they (Cardinal fans) conceitedly consider themselves ” The best fans in baseball.” Of course I insisted on when the contest for such a bias claim/title was held, and they couldn’t answer.
Booing should stop, Javier felt bad enough for letting us down, and his team!
must be Mickey Mantle’s ML debut
That was my guess too when you hinted 50′s
Rich in NJ April 15th, 2010 at 9:39 am
I have no idea what Heyman?s tweet means. Has he been drinking this early?
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That’s kind of what I’m thinking.
I’d think a CPA’s favorite day would be 1 July.
Erin-
Hinske is a ring Vulture.
GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2010 at 9:41 am
must be Mickey Mantle?s ML debut
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Oh crap-
I goofed. That wasn’t the event I was thinking of, but it happened on the same day as the one I was thinking of- which is actually April 17, 1951.
The event I was thinking of was Bob Sheppard’s first game- which was not today.
EPIC fail by Erica
pat, I had forgotten that the season usually started around the 14th-16th of april back then.
# Jim April 15th, 2010 at 9:37 am
why did my post just get blocked? Is there a new lohud anti bashing Vasquez feature?
————–
Probably requires one to spell his name correctly.
Chip, because Yankee fans think they are better than other fans; they think they are helping players by booing…..that it’s their “right”, so that makes it the “right” thing to do. Then you have morons like Bill Madden who say that Vasquez can’t handle the pinstripes…..(no, I didn’t read the article, lol).
blake April 15th, 2010 at 9:41 am
Erica?is tomorrow your favorite day of the year?
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Actually, today is. Tomorrow is my first vacation day of the year!!!
Betsy –
Madden’s a twit. He still thinks the Yankees should find a spot on the roster for Bernie.
By the way – is it wrong that I’m openly rooting against the Royals for the simple reason that I believe if the Royals stink David DeJesus will end up on the Yankees?
Chip,
I don’t understand that either..Javy handled the pressure just fine in the first half of 04 (when he wasn’t hurt)..he’s just missing spots right now. I guarantee every other team in baseball would gladly take him for their 4th starter.
booing is just counterproductive.
Chip-
You must be part pit bull because when you get a hold of an idea you don’t like to let it go.
Mantle’s was also April 17.
He can celebrate april 17th 3 times. It was april 17th, 1953 when a 21 year old mantle smoked a high drive off of Chuck stobbs in Washington a distance of 565 feet. The senator’s owner and ex-Yankee pitcher and manager didn’t believe the distance, so he marked it off himeself. He came up with 562 feet. He forgot to measure the 3 foot thick walls.
GB-
How far do you think Montero can hit one when he really lights into it ?
I’m thinking the “Kuyper belt” out past Pluto.
GB
Less games and more double headers made for a tighter season calendar-wise.
“just saw hal steinbrenner outside regency. i recall his bro smoking cigs, torre in very spot 2 1/2 yrs ago. hal’s an upgrade”
Jon Heyman just saw Hal Steinbrenner outside the Regency Hotel (Park & 61st). He remembers that he saw Hank (who was smoking at the time) and Joe Torre in the very same spot 2 and a half years ago. Heyman thinks Hal is superior to Hank.
I’m not inebriated but I often think like I am.
Since a topic has been taxes:
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics.....taxpayers/
A Look at the Tax Returns of the Top 400 Taxpayers
The top 400 U.S. individual taxpayers got 1.59% of the nation’s household income in 2007, according to their tax returns, three times the slice they got in the 1990s, according to the Internal Revenue Service. They paid 2.05% of all individual income taxes in that year.
In its annual update of the taxes paid by the 400 best-off taxpayers, who aren’t identified, the IRS also said that only 220 of the top 400 were in the top marginal tax bracket. The 400 best-off taxpayers paid an average tax rate of 16.6%, lower than in any year since the IRS began making the reports in 1992.
To make the top 400, a taxpayer had to have income of more than $138.8 million. As a group, the top 400 reported $137.9 billion in income, and paid $22.9 billion in federal income taxes.
About 81.3% of the income of the top 400 households came in the form of capital gains, dividends or interest, the IRS data show. Only 6.5% came in the form of salaries and wages.
Over the past 16 tax years 3,472 different taxpayers showed up in the top 400 at least once. Of these taxpayers, a little more than 27% appear more than once. In any given year, about 40% percent of the top-400 returns were filed by taxpayers who weren’t in that exclusive club in any of the 15 years .
In all, the IRS received nearly 143 million individual tax returns for 2007, the year that ended with the onset of the worst recession in decades.
Erin
Thanks for the link to Melky and Hinske getting their rings.
“The thing I’ve never gotten is why some Yankee fans seem to take pride in the whole “this guy can’t handle playing here” mantra and thus when it’s suggested that a player might not thrive under the pressure of New York they go out of their way to up that pressure (as in booing him off the mound after an average showing)”
Same psychological underpinnings that make schoolkids pick on the kid is class that’s a little different. And no, I’m NOT kidding.
Some people desperately want/need to belong, to be a part of the group. And the way that itch gets scratched is joining in in identifying the person(s) that don’t.
“We’re Yankee fans. We’re New Yorkers. You have to perform and be tough to hang with us”.
They sense weakness, they pounce.
“By the way – is it wrong that I’m openly rooting against the Royals for the simple reason that I believe if the Royals stink David DeJesus will end up on the Yankees?”
It’s not “wrong”. It’s just gross miscalculation to be overly concerned about the offense the Yankees get from their 9 hitter, particularly on April 15th.
Chip, oh he’s worse than that, lol. He might be one of the trolls that populate this place during game threads…….either he or Lupica.
Didn’t see the new post.
Betsy -
I hope the Yankees mean “eventually” with Phil being a #3 in the #5 spot. He certainly has that potential. But I think somehow Hughes has the necessary maturity to deal with expectations. He’s crammed a lot into a few years, and done almost all his developing in the eyes of the public. Pitchers in other organizations (most other organizations) have the luxury of developing under the radar.
His success last season, even if it was out of the bullpen, has to have given him that last “oomph” to absolutely KNOW he can handle major league hitters.
SJ44 -
Glad you addressed the Beltran/Johnson thing as being a Steinbrenner call. I was going to post the same thing.
If the truth be known, Joe Torre should share as much blame for 2004 as any player. He made some terrible decisions and held a 3-0 lead in the ALCS with 4 chances to clean it up. Never a good user of a bullpen, he didn’t do his homework with matchups.
Tony Clark’s ground rule double would have been a difference maker in one of the games. Kevin Brown’s broken hand didn’t help matters and Javy Vasquez was pitching with a tired shoulder in the 2nd half of the season but with the staff in shambles he pitched through it knowing there was few options other than to tough it out.
Torre continued to burn out bullpen arms from 2005-2007. How many years were the Yankees expected to keep on paying for 1996-2000 ?
Doreen, I don’t worry about Phil’s maturity and I know he’ll handle “failure” well. He never has made excuses for himself. I just think the Yankees need to understand, if they don’t already, that he’s going to have his growing pains. Expecting him to pitch like a #3 now is only going to lead to disappointment. LOL He’s 23 and it seems like he’s been here for years……
Cash takes the brunt for many of George’s moves…
Bronx Jeers April 15th, 2010 at 9:53 am
?just saw hal steinbrenner outside regency. i recall his bro smoking cigs, torre in very spot 2 1/2 yrs ago. hal’s an upgrade?
Jon Heyman just saw Hal Steinbrenner outside the Regency Hotel (Park & 61st). He remembers that he saw Hank (who was smoking at the time) and Joe Torre in the very same spot 2 and a half years ago. Heyman thinks Hal is superior to Hank.
I?m not inebriated but I often think like I am.
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Thanks for the translation Bronx! I would have eventually figured it out-my coffee just hadn’t kicked in yet.
pat April 15th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Erin
Thanks for the link to Melky and Hinske getting their rings.
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You’re welcome!
MTU, I have no idea, but, he has a street here in Savannah just behind the pine trees in Savannah’s Grayson Stadium that was hit by 2 of them when he was 18. The street is 450 feet away.
By the way, this link has a picture of Mantle holding the 565 foot ball. two marks…from the bat and from where it hit the side of the scoreboard going out of the park.
http://www.mickeymantle.com/041753.htm
Erin-
Thanks for posting that link! How cool that Hairston’s Padres were going to be playing the Braves and he could personally deliver both the rings and the message to Hinske and Melky.
pat, baseball should schedule day/night double headers on Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July and Labor Day every year. Players hate it, but, fans love it. Bring back the holiday tradition to baseball.
GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2010 at 10:06 am
pat, baseball should schedule day/night double headers on Mother?s Day, Father?s Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July and Labor Day every year. Players hate it, but, fans love it. Bring back the holiday tradition to baseball.
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I think we had a double header last Labor Day. I LOVED it. Its so American
Doreen – 2010 GTLU April 15th, 2010 at 10:05 am
Erin-
Thanks for posting that link! How cool that Hairston?s Padres were going to be playing the Braves and he could personally deliver both the rings and the message to Hinske and Melky.
************
I hope the Fed Ex guy is smiling when he brings the ring to Johnny Damon
Rick the problem is, it’s a lot easier for fans to pin the failure of 2004 on the guy who stunk down the stretch and gave up the backbreaking grand slam in game 7, then it is for them to realize that 2004 was in large part caused by the guy who had previously won 4 titles and was regarded as “St. Joe” among the people that shaped the narrative around the team. Not to say I have some big beef with Torre but, it’s just the reality of things. Blame the pitcher who flamed out in his 1 year on the team, not the mainstay manager who made a huge number of questionable decisions in ’04.
Similarly, in 2010 of course the media will turn its scorn to Vazquez unless he has the type of ERA Pettitte is carrying right now. He’s the easiest mark out there, from a vitriol perspective.
Doreen – 2010 GTLU April 15th, 2010 at 10:05 am
Erin-
Thanks for posting that link! How cool that Hairston?s Padres were going to be playing the Braves and he could personally deliver both the rings and the message to Hinske and Melky
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You’re welcome! I know-that’s much better than having them mailed.
For years, after Nelson, stanton and Mendoza left, NYY didn’t have a bullpen beyond Rivera, with the exception of Gordon for a couple of years. Quantrill was used up before he ever came to NY and so was Steve Karsay.
Erica -
Might they hold onto the ring until they play Detroit and deliver it in person?
“Similarly, in 2010 of course the media will turn its scorn to Vazquez unless he has the type of ERA Pettitte is carrying right now. He’s the easiest mark out there, from a vitriol perspective.”
CR9, you’re going to love this…
Ian O’Connor’s piece yesterday on ESPNY was pure journalistic prostitution.
I don’t believe for a sec there was one genuine note in that article. That was purposely designed to rile up fans on both sides of the issue.
It was a disgrace, not because of the sentiment, but because of the intent.
Fans just refuse to blame the whole team for 2004, which they should; I guess they need a scapegoat. Frankly, it’s been 6 years- get over it.
LOL- From the Yahoo recap of last nights game in Minny-
MINNEAPOLIS (AP)?The rain came down, the crowd cheered, and the Red Sox and Twins kept playing.
?Out-door base-ball,? some fans chanted Wednesday in the second game at Target Field.
Stuckey, I saw that article and didn’t bother to read it; I wasn’t going to give this guy hits and he’s not worth getting upset over.
Doreen – 2010 GTLU April 15th, 2010 at 10:13 am
Erica -
Might they hold onto the ring until they play Detroit and deliver it in person?
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I don’t know, but I am playing with the idea of going to the first game against Detroit. I need to make sure at least one person in attendance gives Johnny a warm welcome
Erica -
By the way, I worked last night to address the thing you had asked me about yesterday morning, if I would do. I won’t say it, because I have 2 hours until I have to, but just wanted you to know it will be done.
Erica, wasn’t one of those Labor Day games a makeup date from earlier in the season?
Arod really needs to sit down with Javy and give him some tips on how to answer the boo question. Admitting that he was disappointed is not the way to go, just shows thin skin which doesn’t bode well in NY. As bad as Arod got it and who really got it worse, he never blamed the fans. Javy is right to think his performance wasn’t boo-worthy – it wasn’t, but it’s a no-win situation to intimate the booing was unfair. The team lost, you were the pitcher, suck it up and move on.
“I think we had a double header last Labor Day. I LOVED it. Its so American”
It was a make-up game. Jeter needed 4 hits to get the Yankee record. He got none which was disappointing for me personally as I was at the 2nd game. But then he was thoughtful enough to make it up to me 4 nights later. Thanks Jetes!
But you’re right. Working on a holiday is very American.
Erica
Yankees play in Detroit in May so if Johnny wants to wait a month, he could have the team give it to him instead of the Fed Ex guy.
Erica -
That is such a great anecdote from the Twins’ game. Very, very cool reaction by the fans.
I guess those tough Minnesotans can handle a little bit of weather, after all.
GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2010 at 10:16 am
Erica, wasn?t one of those Labor Day games a makeup date from earlier in the season?
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Yup!
Doreen, reading that was like listening to my granddaughters talking when they were in school. I had no clue as how they understood what they were saying to each other.
O’Connor’s article was blah but the only thing I took out of it was something someone else (Cashman) said. I posted it in the last thread. Cashman acknowledge fans had the “right” but also stated their treatment of A-Rod (and the booing) in the past was flat out wrong.
I’ve come to terms that for the media its not always about the truth, its about the story. Whatever will get them page hits, comments and people talking. Whether some agree or not, for me that is not the goal of media.
These days a lot of journalism is like adult entertainment. It gets a rise but there’s really no long term benefits.
Bronx Jeers April 15th, 2010 at 10:16 am
?I think we had a double header last Labor Day. I LOVED it. Its so American?
It was a make-up game. Jeter needed 4 hits to get the Yankee record. He got none which was disappointing for me personally as I was at the 2nd game. But then he was thoughtful enough to make it up to me 4 nights later. Thanks Jetes!
But you?re right. Working on a holiday is very American.
************
Hahaha- I was there the day after Labor Day and watched him put up a goose egg in the hits column.
Day/night doubleheaders are not the same as back in the day when there were true doubleheaders.
Of course, when games lasted only 2 and a little bit hours, generally speaking, DHs were more manageable. But so were player salaries.
But I remember going to a Banner Day doubleheader at Shea Stadium. People lined up with banners behind the outfield fence in around the 7th or 8th inning of the first game. The game went 18 innings. It was like watching 3 games that day, plus the banner day parade in between. My friend and I had traveled to the game by Shea Stadium bus from Staten Island. We had to stay to the very end. Didn’t get home until 1 a.m. or so. My dad had to pick us up from the bus stop.
Good memory.
“Stuckey, I saw that article and didn’t bother to read it; I wasn’t going to give this guy hits and he’s not worth getting upset over.”
Betsy, I in fact only read it because you pointed it out. I suspected an editor put on a sensationalistic headline and the piece itself wouldn’t be that bad.
Boy, was I off-base.
It was so over-the-top, it was obvious to anyone even slightly practiced in the art what the intent was. As I say, I don’t believe there was a a genuine word in the entire piece. It was purely pageview whoring.
GB7 -
As long as Erica understood what I was saying. That was my intent.
Stuckey, I wouldn’t put it past O’Connor and his ilk to genuinely feel that way. IF you’re right though, then that is a sad commentary on the state of sports journalism.
So Eric Hinske is the first player to get WS rings from both the Yanks and Sox?
Other than Babe Ruth of course….
It would be great to see doubleheaders return to baseball. One ticket and 2 games. Bud Selig was asked about that and just sorta laughed it off. The owners would never go for it because of how much money they would lose. My parents always tried to take me to Cleveland for a Yankee/Indian DH on Sundays in the late 60s.
BloggingBombers For all the Vazquez haters out there, I get it – you don’t like him. He hasn’t pitched well. But to make definitive statements on 2 starts?
Erica – always OPPC – Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 15th, 2010 at 10:08 am
GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2010 at 10:06 am
pat, baseball should schedule day/night double headers on Mother?s Day, Father?s Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July and Labor Day every year. Players hate it, but, fans love it. Bring back the holiday tradition to baseball.
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I think we had a double header last Labor Day. I LOVED it. Its so American
lol
________________________________________________________________________
Yes we did. I bought tickets to the night game on stubhub the day before thinking Jeter would break the hit record that night ( ya know cause at that time he basically had like 3 hits a game) JETER FAIL
It must be a girl thing, Doreen.
I see that the ‘Zona/LA game was over 4 hours long by the end of the 9th last night and went 11 innings at 4 hours and 58 minutes. What would Joe West say?
Ian O Connor has written some extremely favorable articles about the Yanks over the last week.
Then he was one bad day at the office and the audience turns on him. Sound familiar?
The booing at Yankee Stadium had been going on for generations. They don’t call it a Bronx Cheer for nothing. I think some people are more upset about it than Javy himself.
Frankly, I would love it if the players booed the fans, lol. Let the players express THEIR disappointment in the performance of the fans….
Doreen – 2010 GTLU April 15th, 2010 at 10:22 am
GB7 -
As long as Erica understood what I was saying. That was my intent.
—————————————————————————–
I understand. You don’t want to start early.
Bronx Jeers,
Ian O’Connor has been writing crappy stories for awhile now. This isn’t a new thing.
I wasn’t curious as to what you were saying, Doreen, just wondering how anybody could figure it out. Like listening to my girls, it would have been easier to break the JN-25 codes during WWII.
BloggingBombers Two starts is way too small a sample. Just ask Gallardo (6.75 ERA), Peavy (8.44), Lester (7.20), Verlander (9.00) and Zambrano (11.88).
Bronx Jeers, irony of him writing good things about the Yankees notwithstanding, Ian O’Connor is a hack to the fullest extent of the word. He devoted a lot of column space early last year to saying that the team would actually be better without A-Rod in the lineup. No matter how you want to try to skew that through the prism of steroids/controversy/etc., it is one of the most outright ridiculous arguments you can make as a baseball writer. One thing for Internet commenters to say that and be totally wrong, another for a guy who is supposed to be covering the game and who allegedly understands how the game works to write columns about it. To me the credibility gets revoked when you’re presenting that argument to the general public.
Tom in NJ April 15th, 2010 at 10:24 am
So Eric Hinske is the first player to get WS rings from both the Yanks and Sox?
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Johnny Damon says hello!
Erica -
Yes!
“Stuckey, I wouldn’t put it past O’Connor and his ilk to genuinely feel that way. ”
Writing is truly an underappreciated art/science Betsy. Something as simple as writing an AP write-up of a game is something that’s harder than most people realize. Anyone can write. Very, very few can write well.
If Ian O’Connor has been able to find employment for this many years, he HAS a skillset that REQUIRES him to be able to separate his opinion from a story. You don’t get your first jobs writing inflammatory OP/ED pieces like that. He’s had to spend years practicing the basic art of journalism to get where he is.
Don’t get me wrong, there are good and bad journalists like anything else, but he KNEW exactly what he was doing with that piece.
It was calculated.
“IF you’re right though, then that is a sad commentary on the state of sports journalism.”
Not excusing it, but journalism as a practice is genuinely under siege from the Internet. Its going to get worse and it’s inevitable.
MaineYankee April 15th, 2010 at 10:29 am
Doreen ? 2010 GTLU April 15th, 2010 at 10:22 am
GB7 -
As long as Erica understood what I was saying. That was my intent.
??????????????????????????
I understand. You don?t want to start early.
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HEY!!!! I don’t think I ever hiss at Doreen or GB7.
That Nick though…………………………..whole different story
GB7 -
I know.
I sometimes forget that my husband doesn’t automatically know what I’m thinking and I’ll all of a sudden continue my thought process out loud, in the form of conversation with him. He’ll just look at me like I’m an alien creature. You’d think after 30 years he would be able to read my mind!
BloggingBombers One last thing on Vazquez … blaming him for 2004 ALCS is ridiculous. Whole team fell apart for four games. Should never have been a Game 7
‘Ian O Connor has written some extremely favorable articles about the Yanks over the last week. ‘
Bronx, to be clear, my criticisms have nothing whatsoever to do with if he writes favorably or not. I’m not someone who criticizes (or cares) if people write favorably or unfavorably about the teams I follow and often find myself defending the unfavorable stuff.
But yesterday’s piece was pure whoring. And I don’t say things like that lightly.
Ramiro Mendoza won with both teams also
Bronx Jeers
I read O’Connor going back to his LoHud days.
His Steinbrenner ambush a few years ago made me start my booing and no amount of good words about the Yankee can change my disdain.
I may be harsh but at least I’m not fickle!
I said day one that I didn’t like the trade. I just don’t think Vazquez is a big game pitcher. He has great stuff but refuses to challenge hitters. He was terrible down the strech in 2004. We could have gotten a solid 3/4 starter in free agency without trading one of our best prospects. All we needed was a consistant guy like Pettite. We didn’t need another ace. All we needed was someone who could pitch 6 or 7 innings and hold the other team to about 4 runs. We already had a very inconsistant pitcher in Burnett. I hate having two guys that are capable of giving up 10 runs in the playoffs.
If they gave rings out back in 1918, there are at least 6 others besides Damon and Hinske, starting with some guy named Ruth, and including Everett Scott, Wally Schang, Joe Bush, Carl Mays and Sam Jones.
Erin April 15th, 2010 at 10:38 am
BloggingBombers One last thing on Vazquez … blaming him for 2004 ALCS is ridiculous. Whole team fell apart for four games. Should never have been a Game 7
__________________________________________________
Nail on the head.
For those looking for blame . . . might as well blame the weather.
Game 4 of 2004 WS was scheduled for a Friday and was rained out. This allowed Pedro to get extra rest and for Schilling to rest and “treat” his ankle. And so on . . .
Doreen, we know what wives are thinking…we just don’t know why?
“Johnny Damon says hello!”
Erica, has Damon received his ring yet?
“All we needed was someone who could pitch 6 or 7 innings and hold the other team to about 4 runs.”
This reminds of me Knicks fans who are highly critical of David Lee for not being a good defensive player. They often say this like, “All we need in this draft (the Knicks don’t have 1st rounder) is a 6’11″- 7-foot guy who can rebound, score around the basketball and he a shot-blocking presence in the middle” .
My response is always the same – the have a term for players like that – overall #1 picks.
What you just described Dylan is a rarer commodity that I think you realize.
Pettitte is a borderline hall-of-famer, not a lunchpail guy.
Who exactly are you referring to? Who was on the market better than Vazquez?
Stuckey, I am someone who enjoys and respects the written word. I was an English major in college and I have loved books/words since I was a kid, so believe me I recognize good writing from bad. I normally wouldn?t say this, but even if O?Connor was Shakespeare in that piece and even if he was grammatically perfect, it?s still bad writing because he?s trying to incite, not convince. I didn?t read it, so maybe I shouldn?t say anything, but if O?Connor genuinely wanted to get his point across, he wouldn?t be so inflammatory. LOL In a way, I guess I?m supporting your argument. I happen to think his argument is asinine; did he suggest that fans have a right to boo? Guess what? There?s a difference between having a right to do something and that thing being the right thing to do. I don?t know if enough people know the difference. I have the right to be a jerk, but why would I want to?
Javy will be fine. We will be 9-3 after 12 games too….next subject !….
Even Girardi doesn’t know about Vazquez’s psyche, however, and it would seem as if there are three things working against him right now: (1) a fastball that is 2-3 miles per hour slower than normal; (2) the American League which, as he, himself admitted Wednesday, “is more challenging in that there are no breathers,” and (3) the pressure of pitching in New York for the world champion Yankees with their voluminous media corps and demanding fans.
Yes, it’s only two starts and only April, but no one can blame the Yankee brass for beginning to wonder if, even pitching in the comfort zone as the No. 4 starter, Vazquez has the right stuff to be able to overcome all of that.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z0lBEjNu7R
Ugh. Here we go again with the “we traded one of our best prospects” drivel in regards to Javy again.
If Vizcaino becomes anything in this game, let alone a top of the rotation starter like you all prospect huggers predict for him, then come back here and talk smack.
At the moment, that trade was a steal for the Yankees. Melky is hitting under .100 and the other guys are buried in the minors not helping a major league team.
When Javy gets on a roll, and folks HE WILL get on a roll, will you knock off the “we traded our best prospect!” nonsense?
Because we didn’t. We traded a young A-ball pitcher who is years away from the majors for a guy who almost won a Cy Young last year and for the 1/2 season he was healthy here in 04 was an All Star.
And if we can’t make an injury excuse for him, then don’t bring it up for Hughes when you try to explain his struggles in the past like 2008 when he was struggling pitching hurt.
As the trade stands right now, we traded NOTHING for Javy and he will win a lot of games for us this season.
Tom in NJ April 15th, 2010 at 10:50 am
?Johnny Damon says hello!?
Erica, has Damon received his ring yet?
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HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
O’Connor also wrote an article on Arod last year-typical “Yankees are better w/o him” bunk.
He had it taken off line when he began to get heat from us fans about it.
Not only is he a hack, he’s also a coward.
Erica,
“He had it taken off line when he began to get heat from us fans about it.”
He can’t hold up to the fan scrutiny in NY?
Someone should write a column about that.
“Good moooorninggg, Vietnam!” (If you haven’t seen the movie, you must!)
Love that picture of Melky & Hinske.
My caption contest entry is : “Wonder Twins-activate!”
Good luck to the Yankees, and good luck to young Master Phil.
Betsy, we’re in agreement [looks out the window, the earth apparently hasn't shifted on its axis]
That said, i was talking more about simply understanding the structure of a story, rather than the quality of the prose. That’s actually the less recognizable/understood skill. Turning a good phrase is much less important than knowing when and where to turn it.
O’Connor knew what he was doing. I quote:
“So if there was anything “unfair” about Game 2 of the Yankees’ home schedule, it wasn’t the booing.
It was the $11.5 million pitching witnessed by those who paid 23 bucks to park.”
It was out and out pandering.
Tom in NJ-
No worries. I only hiss at people I like.
m April 15th, 2010 at 10:59 am
Love that picture of Melky & Hinske.
My caption contest entry is : ?Wonder Twins-activate!?
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LOVE the caption!!
Ugh, Stuckey – that’s HORRIBLE. Yankee fans aren’t owed a win by the Yankees; no fans are owed anything by any team except effort. You pay your $$, fine, but you’d better understand the risk when you do it: the results won’t always be as you like them to be. If fans want a guarantee of good results, I have an idea. Buy the 2009 WS DVD and watch that………Just that one phrase tells me that O’Connor’s article wasn’t worth the paper it would have been printed on had it been for the Bergen Record.
GLove, very well said.
Erin,
Did you notice that when Melky put the ring on, his facial hair magically disappeared? The “Power” of “Pinstripes” indeed!
Andy Pettitte is a guy who doesn’t give up 10 runs in a playoff game? Game 6 in the ’01 Series ring a bell? That was a potential clinching game.
Try again Dylan. Try not to be a baseball illiterate.
Arodys Vizcaino – April 11th:
G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO GO/AO AVG ERA
1 1 0 0 0 5.0 8 4 4 0 2 5 1.25 .381 7.20
I wonder if he got booed? After, he cost them Javier Vasquez.
Erica – always OPPC – Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 15th, 2010 at 9:34 am
Come on people- Quiz Time
Why is this date significant in Yankee history??
(No cheating!!!)
I’ll give you a hint. It happened in the 50s
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Whitey Ford and Mickey Mantle swapped wives
m April 15th, 2010 at 11:04 am
Erin,
Did you notice that when Melky put the ring on, his facial hair magically disappeared? The ?Power? of ?Pinstripes? indeed!
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I just had to go back and look-I didn’t even notice! That’s hilarious.
“Wonder Twins-activate!”
Good one!
Caption:
Much better souvenir than a “My ex-teammate went to NY and all I got was this T-Shirt”
MTU –
There are a few players in the league I’ve always liked and always thought would do well as Yankees – they aren’t necessarily all-stars but just solid players that would (at various times in their careers) fill roles on this club.
DeJesus is one of those guys.
Others are:
Jorge Cantu
Torri Hunter
Gil Meche
Clint Barmes
I’m just not a fan of Vazquez. I hope he turns it around. There is really no excuse for him not to. He is going up against teams #4 starters, and has the best lineup in baseball behind him. I never said we traded our best prospect, but we did trade our best pitching prospects, and our starting left fielder. I just hate Javy’s approach to pitching. He has great stuff, but he pitches around guys that cant hit him, instead of challenging them. I think he will have a decent record by the end of the year. I just hope we use a 3-man rotation in the playoffs. I do not want to see him starting an important game. I have absolutely not faith in the guy.
Maybe the Yankees can trade Montero and Romine for Barmes.
SJ44,
Pettite has proved himself on numerous occasions. Vazquez has a 10.34 career ERA in the playoffs. Sorry if I don’t have the exact same view as every other Yankees fan! I am going to support the guy. I just don’t trust him.
Dylan
I suspect the Yankees don’t share your view.
Encinitan April 15th, 2010 at 11:07 am
Whitey Ford and Mickey Mantle swapped wives
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Soon to be made into a movie starring Affleck and Damon
What had Pettitte proved when he pitched in Game #1 of the 1996 WS?
And what is the sample size of Vazquez’s 10.34 playoff ERA?
Dylan Dylan Dylan I SPIT HOT FIRE
Erin April 15th, 2010 at 11:16 am
Encinitan April 15th, 2010 at 11:07 am
Whitey Ford and Mickey Mantle swapped wives
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Soon to be made into a movie starring Affleck and Damon
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My bad-I wasn’t paying attention to the names. I need more coffee!!
Dylan -
3 games.
And the first 2 he was probably pitching with a sore shoulder.
Andy has been fortunate enough to pitch in a lot more games so his record is more reflective of his overall ability.
pat,
Nice!
I think we need to wait a bit before judging Javy. The Yankees poor offense amplified Javy’s less than stellar effort. That 6th inning got away from him, but there was a good portion of the game when he retired quite a few in a row.
Javy deserves what CC, AJ & hopefully Phil get~which is patience and the benefit of the doubt.
Until it’s obvious that he’s not working out (a la Smoltz/Penny), then I can take anything that’s not constructive said about Javy seriously.
Once again G.Love gets props and hits the nail on the head with the Javy deal.
Some fans will always need to have a player to trash then disappear like George Porgie when A.J. administers a pie in the face.
This is why except for a few exceptions DO NOT BRING NL “aces” and think they are anything more then 4 starters.
new thread
*can’t*
Did Andy step into the “Hot Tub Time Machine”? He’s having a great [2 games]
Chad,
Did Andy say anything about his good start? Like he’s feeling frisky or he’s feeling healthy for the first time in a long time? Or is he just Andy Pettitte?
This is why except for a few exceptions DO NOT BRING NL “aces” and think they are anything more then 4 starters.
——
Hey bozo, stop being such a menace
Javy has also had the misfortune to face the two pitchers that have so far stymied the Yankees’ offense: Price and Pineiro.
Doreen,
All I can say is that I hope you are right. Pettite has always been a big game pitcher though. He has always loved the big moment. Vazquez has been AWFUL in the playoffs. In 15.2 innings he has given up 18 earned runs. Like I said, I support the guy, I just don’t trust him. He still has to prove himself.
“Maybe the Yankees can trade Montero and Romine for Barmes.”
I would trade him Jesus for Romero of the BJays. That’s if they are ever opened to it.
In the other thread someone was asking if the Yankees would trade Betances for Beltran, in nano second but the Mets would want more, like Jesus or Romine thrown in w/ Melancon + a nother position plyr. But I would also see if I can snag F-Mart for Betances if I’m the Yankees.
Chip
I think you should join a fantasy league title your team the New York Yankees and then you can draft and trade for all these guys that you think would be good Yanks.
in the real world…
While I agreed in the offseason that DeJesus would have made an excellent LF’er for this team it didn’t happen and now that ship has sailed.
Just move on already and stop suggesting nonsense like Joba for Fernando Martinez, who while again I think may be a stud corner OF’er in the future, because It will NEVER happen as the Yanks and Mets don’t and most likely will not ever make trades with each other.
Dylan,
I hope I’m right, too.
I just liked Javy the first time around, thought he should not have been traded away. In any event, he’s put together a solid body of work in the 6 years away from the Yankees and I think everyone deserves a fair shake and a chance to make a new impression.
I could see being upset if Javy allowed 4 earned runs in 3 innings, but allowing 4 earned runs into the 6th inning is the type of start that keeps the Yanks in the game.
Romelo Sanchez starts for scranton tonight. Jeremy Bleich starts for Trenton tonight, Adam Warren starts for Tampa, tonight and Sean Black starts for Charleston tonight.
Will be curious to see if Miley starts Montero behind the plate. He’s started all 7 games so far, 6 as the catcher. Romine has started 5 of the 7 games.
Rick April 15th, 2010 at 11:24 am
Once again G.Love gets props and hits the nail on the head with the Javy deal.
Some fans will always need to have a player to trash then disappear like George Porgie when A.J. administers a pie in the face.
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I don’t agree at all.
It’s actually possible to root for Javy, to be offended by a ridiculous rap a few idiots have tagged him with – which Joe Torre’s bad decision was really responsible for – and to believe he’ll ultimately have a nice season for the Yankees.
It’s actually possible to feel some sentiment, even, that he has a chance to come and go this time around on an upbeat note, and to look forward to that vindication, which one hopes for.
It’s actually possible to feel and understand all this, without having been in favor of the trade that brought him back.
The two aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive.
It’s also actually possible to grasp that the further away a pitching prospect is from stepping on a major-league mound, the higher the percentages are that said prospect encounters some mishap and never makes it.
He loses mechanics, body grows in a way that works against him, gets injured, doesn’t prove to have the dedication, etc.
In fact, the vulnerability of pitchers in development is a very valid reason for NOT liking that trade.
The trend in baseball is to lock up in-prime arms. King Felix is the poster boy for this. The need to develop young arms, and lots of them, is more a matter of survival now than it is some sentimental fancy to have homegrown arms in the rotations of the future.
I would have much preferred to see the Yankees slot Joba, who had no innings limits, into the No. 4 slot (with a caddy FA or Aceves in the wings), and continue the plan to have Hughes be the fifth starter.
That way, I’m continuing to develop two high-end arms, and I also still have Arodys Vizcaino in the system, along with Jo-Ram, Man-Ban, Stoneburner, Cabrera, Brackman, Betances, etc.
We saw, in a flash, Christian Garcia bedevil the Phillies lineup with his top-rated curve/change/FB mix, and hit the DL again 2 weeks later.
Pitching is fragile.
Signing a FA pitcher, if they felt more secure with that insurance, would not have costed the Yankees Vizcaino.
You can disagree with this – my point is Vazquez cost not only Vizcaino, but a year of development and possibly a career of starting in Joba – but don’t try to obfuscate a well-reasoned position and dumb it down, using that dumb “prospect hugger” defense.
Being able to handle different opinions is a sign of expansive thinking and intelligence, IMO.
Bodhi – great comments on Vazquez and especially the following. Finally someone put it into print.
. . . . . You can disagree with this – my point is Vazquez cost not only Vizcaino, but a year of development and possibly a career of starting in Joba.
I hope many recognize this a the truth that it is. Joba was really only given 2009 to prove himself and he was recovering from that shoulder injury.