A good way to start
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 19, 2010 
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Two weeks into the season, the Yankees have nine wins. And that’s with their No. 3 hitter batting .114.
Derek Jeter, Robinson Cano, Jorge Posada and Curtis Granderson have been terrific, but the team’s hot start has started with its starters.* Obviously Javier Vazquez is struggling, but CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Andy Pettitte and Phil Hughes are 7-0 through 10 starts. Sabathia, Burnett and Pettitte have sub-3.00 ERAs.
“I came back because I want to help us win another championship,” Pettitte said. “And I feel like we have a special group of guys here.”
Obviously Pettitte was outstanding yesterday, but check out this pitching line for the Yankees starters this home stand: 5-1, 2.17 ERA, 37.2 IP, 27 H , 15 BB, 36 K and a .205 opponents batting average.
* What a terrible sentence, but I couldn’t help myself.
—
And that’s obviously an AP photo of Pettitte with Dave Eiland and Joe Girardi.
MTU,
I believe it in regards to Andy wanting to empty the tank before walking away. I mean, he’s had plenty of time to walk away from the game and he keeps coming back. I think when he realizes he has the rest of life to hang out at the house with his family but he only has a limited time to be a starting pitcher on the Yankees, he keeps coming back and we should be thankful for it.
For a guy who is mostly regarded as a back of the rotation starter here, he never feels like he’s a back of the rotation starter. At least not to me.
And on another topic, did I see that right? Did Pedroia, who is currently the most effective hitter on the Sox, just try to bunt over a runner in the first inning?
Ooof.
If they get swept at home, the fans and media will be on death watch.
?I came back because? I want to help us win another championship,? Pettitte said. ?And? I feel like we have a special group of guys here.?
***********************
I agree, Andy
not just swept, a 4 game sweep.
boston is 1-5 at home so far no?
I don’t think anyone is really understanding what I’m trying to say.
There are two arguments to be made.
1. Which farm system (Yanks or Red Sox) has helped their respective team more in recent years?
Clearly the answer is the Yankees has been utilized better and has helped the team win more games than Boston’s system.
2. Which farm system currently has more talent?
I believe the answer is definitively Boston. However, the fact remains that Cashman has proven he is more skilled than Theo at using what he has at his disposal to translate minor leaguers into success at the majors. Whether that’s promoting guys or trading guys for established major leaguers. The Red Sox have failed at that in recent years, in my opinion.
Also, the Red Sox might release Ortiz rather than just stashing him on the bench!
What an ignominious end to his Red Sox (baseball) career that would be.
via MLB Trade Rumors
AL East’s biggest trade chips:
Red Sox: Boston has held onto Clay Buchholz for this long, but with his name appearing so frequently on the rumor circuit, it really wouldn’t be surprising if they moved him for a big time player. They might still be able to find a taker for Mike Lowell, and there would be interest in Manny Delcarmen if he were made available. They did lose a valuable chip when Junichi Tazawa went down with Tommy John surgery.
LMAO!!! Red Sox stinksniffing at its finest
Those MLB TR writers are pretty obvious.
Whoa talk about grammar screw-ups.
Meant to say, “Clearly the answer is the Yankees. New York’s system has been utilized better and has helped the team win more games than Boston?s system.”
G. Love-
I don’t know who is doing the regarding but AP is not a BOTR guy IMO.
“For a guy who is mostly regarded as a back of the rotation starter here,”
Ummm, can’t say I agree with this at all. Perhaps he was never regarded as one of the game’s elite shut-down guys, ala a Halladay, I don’t think anyone has ever regarded him as a back of the rotation guy.
I think he’s always been regarded as a 2+.
Gotta love this run prevent defense.
people who booed nick johnson yesterday really need to get a life.
Patrick,
I don’t agree that Boston has more talent in their system. If you want to take the word of BA, Law and alike than that’s your problem. I try to do more independent thinking in regard to the information those sources give me about prospects.
If the RS have more talent why can’t they use it when they have a need?
GB-
“Gotta love this run prevent defense.”
Not the boy wonder’s finest hour.
What a hoot.
interest in manny delcarmen? REALLY!?!?!
Maine,
Ask Theo, he’s failed in that regard in recent years.
Craw,
I read stuff from Law and other guys like him and I have made my own determinations. I think the Sox have more talent in the minors at this point in time. But as I keep saying, Cashman does a better job than Theo of turning his minor league talent into success for the big league team so I’m not all that worried about it.
The way the Sox are playing so far Boston is gonna run out of beer before the end of April.
Listening to local sports radio this am the panic is setting in. They referenced the Three Stooges when talking about the defense.
I still don’t get why the Sox have a better farm system when their best prospects are in the lower minors and have just as much to prove as the Yankees’ kids.
Andy is like the Everready bunny….he just keeps going and going and going.
Those #s for the SP are insane; if AJ keeps this up, what a 1-2 punch we’ll have.
Boston just got a pity call from the home plate umpire
Patrick, you haven’t explained why the Sox have the better system.
Patrick,
Like I said believe what you like, but don’t be stating your opinion like it’s fact. It’s an opinion that is no better than others on this board.
Patrick
Callers were asking why the Yankees got Granderson and they couldn’t. Answer, the Yankees had the pieces and was willing to part with them to get the deal done.
I’m struggling to see where the Red Sox have more talent in their system than the Yankees.
Seems to me their talent level is even with the exception the Red Sox do not have a Montero-type player in their system.
Hey John Henry, how’s that “MT curse” working out for you?
MaineYankee April 19th, 2010 at 11:51 am
Listening to local sports radio this am the panic is setting in. They referenced the Three Stooges when talking about the defense.
***********************
That is too funny
I DONT BELIEVE IT!!
7 pitches in the AB to Zobrist with 1st and 3rd 1 out……6 pitches were balls, and the only strike was a foul ball.
And the 3-0, 3-1, and 3-2 pitches were called strikes.
FOX TRAX showed them to be all outside 2 feet, and all having started outside and ending in the same spot.
What a joke.
I’ve noticed again Lackey has been pitching outside, to the outer part of the plate, and well outside the strike zone, and receiving abnormal Eric Gregg strikes.
It looks like the umpires are trying to welcome Lackey to the Red Sox.
home plate umpire is trying to squeeze out a win for Boston but Longo still makes them pay even though Zobrist got robbed
YEAHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LONGO doubles in 2 runs!!!!
Take that, HP umpire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tex’s friend
I think they mean that the Newark Bears might have interest in DelCarmen
Why would any team want a guy like Grandy ?
He’s young.
He can run and throw.
He’s a good fielder.
He only hits about 30 hrs.
Triples like it was goin out of style.
Bad character.
A real head scratcher that one.
now lackey chucks one up and in
i dont even know if the umps realize how bad they are, particularly in boston. But you know you wont get any response to that from bud. just an attack on game times.
You guys are so literal sometimes.
Andy is regarded as a back of the rotation starter here right now. Not his entire career.
I’ve seen him listed from anywhere from 3-5 by some of you and the media ranking the team this pre-season. When we got Vazquez back a lot of people were calling Andy a four and some of the Phil/Joba fanatics even called Andy a 5. That’s back of the rotation.
I don’t regard him that way. Outside of CC, he is who I want on the mound in a big game. End of story.
For the ones that think the umps favor Boston, I watched the Rangers station when Mo was in and he was getting some real favorable calls.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A 3 run smack for BJ UPTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take that, HP UMPIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6 to zero rays, hahhhhhhhhhhh should be 7 to 0
CR9, you’re way too excited for a Monday.
No one was calling Andy a 5, GLove…….
IMO, he’s the #3 guy in the rotation until Javy proves himself again.
Niemann AINT been getting any of the pitches that Lackey has gotten through the first 3 innings.
Hopefully, that changes.
G. in a text-based forum, how are we supposed to be anything but literal..
?
Bear in mind there are two dynamics – the number in terms of how a pitcher is generally regarded around the league, and the # in terms of how he’s regarded on HIS particular staff.
Pettitte being the 4th starter on the Yankees doesn’t mean he’s regarded as 4th starter quality around the league. Those are two different designations.
WOW. I agree that the umps are just bad in general, but they seem to be worse ALL AROUND at fenway.
Sox fans are going to be on suicide watch !
rivera gets the hof zone
Repost -
6 – 0
RAYS!
Sox look lost.
No Defense.
Noi Offense.
It’s early but …
Saying that Bill Hall can play CF – even on an emergency basis – is something like saying Marcus Thames can play CF if one were to take him out to the middle of the big green patch on the field and stand him there.
Ouch, Lackey certainly didn’t come up big when the Sox needed him. I’m not about to sign their death warrant, though.
burrel k vy swinging at 5 bad pitches. love seeing lackey implode
The best part is, is that Lackey had a 3-2 pitch to Pena that ended in a walk, and the 3-2 pitch was the same as every strike called to strike out Zobrist unfairly.
Lackey probably felt slighted at not receiving that clear ball as a strike!
I have to say again, I REALLY ENJOY this Brian Anderson commentating games. He is professional! He brings what Kevin Kennedy could not dream of bringing.
Will they start talking about Francona being on the “hot seat” if the Sox keep struggling? Torre was allegedly on the firing line during early ’07 when the team stunk out of the gate in spite of his 4 rings. Tito’s got 2 and while the expectations might not be the same (a bridge to nowhere/win prevention/whatever Theo wants to call it) I’m sure some of the always-calm Boston media and fans will have some interesting thoughts on Francona at the top. Remember when the Yankees would do this every year? Yeah I don’t miss that at all.
Theo might want to go into hiding because the fans aren’t buying what he’s selling.
Betsy,
They aren’t all in the lower minors.
I’ll tell you why I think the Red Sox have a better system. Casey Kelly is better than any pitcher in the Yankees system. Reddick and Kalish are legit prospects who are pretty close to the major leagues. Westmoreland is a top 20 prospect if he recovers. Lars Anderson is still a good prospect despite his crappy 2009, he’s actually off to a good start this year. They have some other guys in there that a pretty good – Rizzo, Igelsias.
The Yankees have Montero, Romine, McAllister and then a bunch of young guys in single A.
Look it’s just my opinion. I don’t think there is a huge gap like some writers would have you believe. If I had to put a number to it I’d say the Yanks system is around 15-18th and the Sox are like 12-13.
If you want to know more go research yourself.
Craw,
I’ll state my opinion however the hell I like. Deal with it.
Wow ! the Red Sox really have some issues. I thought they would at least take one game but it looks like they won’t be able to do that.
Callers were asking why the Yankees got Granderson and they couldn?t. Answer, the Yankees had the pieces and was willing to part with them to get the deal done.
—-
That was a pretty lucky situation for the Yanks. Cashman had the right pieces and the will to get it done. The Red Sox could have maybe swung the deal with Kalish or Reddick going to Detroit (i doubt it) but they didn’t have anyone like Kennedy at the top of their system.
It is getting late very early in Beantown.
The Rays are a very good team.
yeo marco gets 4 strikes then walks
THIS IS A JOKE!!!
The 0-2 pitch was right down the middle and the same height as all of Lackey’s strikes.
And the ball 4 pitch was a borderline pitch.
THIS IS SICK!
This HP Umpire KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING CLEARLY!
Josh Reddick is as much a “legit prospect” Curtis is for the Yankees. They are similar players.
Kalish has more talent.
You can’t count Westmoreland because he’s not playing.
Casey Kelly is legit.
Lars Anderson is not.
Inglesias has a great glove, no bat. Nunez has a great bat and a not so great glove. A wash.
Nobody in their system approaches Montero. No one is even close.
Seems like its more a wash than the media folks think it is.
Andrew
It’s not Francona’s fault. He didn’t put this mess together.
When the RS aren’t doing well the fans call him Francoma.
They don’t realise he’s the best manager they’ve had in along time.
I disagree, Maine Yankee – I thought Mo was very sharp; I thought he looked great. I can’t recall any favorable calls for him. Then again, Phil got squeezed in his start; the umps are just bad. I doubt the Sox are losing because of the umps and I doubt the Rays are getting jobbed.
(from last thread, and the problem with reading from the bottom up!)
This just in: the Suxers may never win a game again!
I?m fine with them losing because I?m fine sticking to my prediction that the Yanks will run away with the division, despite what the Rays are doing right now. I do remember rooting against the Sux?s competition at one point in my life. I think it the season that Toronto was in first for quite a bit, and we may have then owned last place by quite a bit (8.5 games?) So I felt it was more important that Toronto be stopped, no matter the competition.
First and last time.
GO YANKEES!!!
When Theo talked about “run prevention” I didn’t realize he was talking about Boston’s offense.
Patrick,
Go ahead and state your opinion anyway you like, but don’t expect the rest of us to buy what you’re trying to sell on the Red Sox superior farm system.
Lars Anderson should have AA pitching down pretty well. He’s starting his third season there. Of course, he’s still allergic to leather gloves.
Win prevention.
NY Yankees pitchers are 27th in the league in walks allowed.
20th in strikeouts
NY Yankee batters are third in BB.
24th in strikeouts.
Boston:
Pitchers: 11th in BB allowed
27 in strikeouts
Batters: 24th in BB given
18th in Strikeouts
How any human adult allowed by the state to operate a motor vehicle and vote in elections can look at those numbers and still be convinced there is an umpire bias is beyond me.
Ahh, maybe Campos the HP umpire just wants to get out of Fenway alive.
If so, then I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
pitchtrax has that first ball right down the middle hahaha.
I don’t think that’s a matter of luck. Its a matter of one team having the pieces and the other team, with the more hyped farm system, not.
The Red Sox had no one of the level of Austin Jackson or Ian Kennedy to get that deal done.
That speaks to what they don’t have in their system as opposed to what they do have.
CR9
Yeah I saw that pitch that should have been a strikeout. The ump helped out Scutaro.
bad umping or not it doesnt matter. nothing will help boston right now.
The Red Sox will of course play better. They have a much easier schedule coming up.
Again, however, it’s amazing, but not surprising, how their offseason moves were so widely lauded by the media and blogging community.
If the Yankees signed a 37-year old centerfielder, a third baseman coming off a sub .700 OPS, a 34-year old shortstop coming off a career year, it would be painted as the “foolish spending Yankees” buying more aging players.
Theo can do no wrong, however.
Casey Kelly? You mean Cy Young? Is he absolutely better than Banuelos? Ramirez? Reddick is hardly a top prospect.
YEAHH!!!!!!
A fair strike 3, as evidenced by Fox Trax…and of course, Pedroia is arguing.
Josh Reddick is as much a ?legit prospect? Curtis is for the Yankees. They are similar players.
Kalish has more talent.
You can?t count Westmoreland because he?s not playing.
Casey Kelly is legit.
Lars Anderson is not.
Inglesias has a great glove, no bat. Nunez has a great bat and a not so great glove. A wash.
Nobody in their system approaches Montero. No one is even close.
Seems like its more a wash than the media folks think it is.
———–
You’re right, it’s unfair of me to count Westmoreland and considering he’s their #1 or 2 prospect, that definitely drops the Sox down closer to the Yankees. However, I think you are underrating Anderson and Reddick.
I’m not a big fan of arguing for the Red Sox, it’s just my opinion. I’m done with this topic, I feel icky after defending Boston for too long
“1. Don?t necessarily think Andy is going to retire. If he keeps pitching like this, he won?t.”
SJ, happily and definitely agree. One of the worst calls I ever made was that it looked like Andy’s better pitching days were well in the past. He just gets better with age.
maineyankee I agree that Mo does get some favorable call, I just never point it out
Casey Kelly? You mean Cy Young? Is he absolutely better than Banuelos? Ramirez?
–
Yes he is absolutely better than either of those guys.
Man that 3rd inning for Lackey was brutal. He threw 36 pitches, gave up 5 runs and the Rays lead 6-0. Francona probably needs a drink about now.
Patrick April 19th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Callers were asking why the Yankees got Granderson and they couldn?t. Answer, the Yankees had the pieces and was willing to part with them to get the deal done.
?-
That was a pretty lucky situation for the Yanks. Cashman had the right pieces and the will to get it done. The Red Sox could have maybe swung the deal with Kalish or Reddick going to Detroit (i doubt it) but they didn?t have anyone like Kennedy at the top of their system.
————————————————————————————-
So based on this statement why is the RS system better. Even trading Kennedy they still have more potential pitchers left. Maybe not as good as Kelly but it’s depth the RS don’t have.
“Fair call”. “Unfair call”. “Fair call.”. “Unfair call.”
Apparently the Red Sox/Rays game is being umpired by Sybill.
Did you even see Kelly pitched? If not then how do you know he’s absolutely better than Banuelos and Ramirez?
Well, so much for John Lackey holding the Rays at bay.
Jenny April 19th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
When Theo talked about ?run prevention? I didn?t realize he was talking about Boston?s offense.
**************************
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
In spite of Angel Campos, a double play!!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Have you seen all of them multiple times, Patrick? I’m just curious – and also, what you have seen in Reddick that makes you think he’s such a good prospect.
Peter Gammons is drinking early today.
SJ44,
Ok whatever. If you’re telling me Jackson and Kennedy are above any two prospects the Sox have, you’re crazy.
Who are the Red Sox going to be able to offer the Padres exactly to extract Gonzalez.
Tazawa and Westmoreland are both out for the season, and Tazawa is not a blue-chip prospect to begin with. Lars Anderson’s value has sunk as has Buccholz.
If I’m San Diego’s GM, I demand Bard and Kelly as part of any package, or I walk away.
Who are the Red Sox going to be able to offer the Padres exactly to extract Gonzalez.
Tazawa and Westmoreland are both out for the season, and Tazawa is not a blue-chip prospect to begin with. Lars Anderson’s value has sunk as has Buccholz.
If I’m San Diego’s GM, I demand Bard and Kelly as part of any package, or I walk away.
MaineYankee I don’t think it’s Francona’s fault either, but the manager is always a target when a big money team flops out of the gate. I am just curious to see what gets said about Tito and his status in the coming days/weeks if the team keeps floundering. The common saying is that Boston is just as bloodthirsty as NY when it comes to the team struggling, and Torre was as much a St. as Tito so I wonder if the vultures will start circling.
MaineYankee
Is Francona really that good ? Or was he helped out by having such good teams in 2004 and 2007 like Joe Torre during the dynasty years ?
I think firing Francona would be dumb. 1st of all, who do they have to replace him? 2nd, he’s one of the only members of that organization I like ( not that this matters at all, just saying lol).
Also, via MLB Trade Rumors
Billy Beane is working to get a long term contract with the flyin Hawaiian Kurt Suzuki.
So where exactly does Boston Olney get the idea that the A’s might gift Suzuki to the Sox. I guess only in his and likeminded Sox brains!
Have you seen all of them multiple times, Patrick? I?m just curious ? and also, what you have seen in Reddick that makes you think he?s such a good prospect.
—
I share a milb.tv account (which is actually pretty good, and very cheap), read scouting reports, read minor league articles from several websites, watch some clips on youtube, etc. I don’t have the time or money to travel around and watch these guys live but I do watch online as much as I can.
Patrick,
Then how did the deal get done? The Red Sox were also in on Granderson and didn’t have the pieces to get the deal done. The Yankees did and Kennedy and Jackson were the two major components in the deal.
Clearly, the teams in the deal preferred those players to the Red Sox prospects offered in any proposed trade. i don’t know why you are having a hard time understanding that.
trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 19th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
“1. Don?t necessarily think Andy is going to retire. If he keeps pitching like this, he won?t.”
SJ, happily and definitely agree. One of the worst calls I ever made was that it looked like Andy’s better pitching days were well in the past. He just gets better with age.
_________________________________________________________________________
Glad to see you’ve come to your senses Trisha!!!
“If the Yankees signed a 37-year old centerfielder, a third baseman coming off a sub .700 OPS, a 34-year old shortstop coming off a career year, it would be painted as the “foolish spending Yankees” buying more aging players.”
Bill Hall is masquerading as a CF today – he probably should have caught BJ Upton’s three run home run.
Obviously it’s a last minute move due to Cameron’s kidney stones.
But that is not an accident. If you are going to rely on older players, especially older up the middle you can’t be surprised if they get hurt. It’s just probability. Kidney stones are something that tends to happen more as you get older. The yankees are in a similar position with Jeter, Posada, Mo and Andy.
So if you are going to rely on older player you better have a deep team – and not just deep in terms of backup – you better have other players at different positions who can try to mitigate the loss of that older player with their own production. You also need effective back ups, but you need guys who can pick up the slack.
The Sox team was supposedly designed to excel in one way – run prevention. That doesn’t give them much fault tolerance. So when a guy like Cameron goes down they can’t make up for his glove by getting more hitting out of another position.
And for almost unfathomable reasons they have a 38 year old CF and no true back up CF on their 25 man roster. How do you do that? And this from a team that had to excel defensively and couldn’t afford not to.
Patrick, the Tigers and the D-backs liked them so they must be crazy.
Betsy – Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) April 19th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
I disagree, Maine Yankee ? I thought Mo was very sharp; I thought he looked great. I can?t recall any favorable calls for him. Then again, Phil got squeezed in his start; the umps are just bad. I doubt the Sox are losing because of the umps and I doubt the Rays are getting jobbed.
———————————————————–
Betsy
On the Rangers station they had the box that shows where the pitch was and Mo got some very favorable ones. The announcers didn’t whine about it because thy know guys like MO will get favorable calls.
Only Kryptonite can stop the Yankees this year.
Who are the Red Sox going to be able to offer the Padres exactly to extract Gonzalez.
Tazawa and Westmoreland are both out for the season, and Tazawa is not a blue-chip prospect to begin with. Lars Anderson’s value has sunk as has Buccholz.
If I’m San Diego’s GM, I demand Bard and Kelly as part of any package, or I walk away.
__
Dont forget the ICON, Jed Lowrie.
Casey Kelly is a legitimate prospect. Just because – like many Sox prospects – he is being overhyped by the media, doesn’t mean he’s not good.
you can’t win alone on Pitching and Defense . . .This isn’t football. . .there has to be a balance. . You have to have some pop . . The sox after Elsbury Pedroia and Youk look horrible .
“I share a milb.tv account (which is actually pretty good, and very cheap), read scouting reports, read minor league articles from several websites, watch some clips on youtube, etc. I don?t have the time or money to travel around and watch these guys live but I do watch online as much as I can.”
So you have time to do all that researching on Red Sox prospects and still have time to watch the Yankees and their prospects?
By the way, I have a milb.tv account too and read several websites and articles, but I don’t have time to watch Kelly pitch and declare absolutely he’s better than Banuelos and Ramirez.
Oh I forgot to answer the question about Reddick. First of all, I don’t think he’s going to be a star like Peter Gammons seems to think. I do think he has the ability to be a major league regular. I like him because he is very athletic, fast, has good power potential if he fills out more, good range in the outfield, makes good contact.
He’s more like a B/B- prospect
Another Boston Massacre
you can hear a pin drop in Fenway. RSN is dead silent.
Also people need to remember that Francona and Torre before they joined the Red Sox and Yankees were not good managers.
7
I didn’t mean to imply Kelly was not a legit prospect, but to say absolutely that he’s better than anything the Yankees have? He (and the Yankees prospects) are too far away to determine that.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Bartlett with a great gap hit to knock in the 7th run!!!
GOODBYE LACKEY OH WONT YOU STAY FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bill Hall making Marcus Thames look like Willie Mays in the OF. Run prevention!!
Where are all the Red Sox trolls that like to hang out here every day?
Come out, come out wherever you are. I need another lecture on Theo’s brilliance and how their pitching is lights out!
Come on, don’t run away, let’s chat!
The Sox don;t look like the same team that claws their way back into games like they do against the Yankees.
Hall. Ouch!
Ok, well I appreciate your responses, Patrick!
tex’s friend
Jed WOWrie!!!
Seriously, this Sux run is hideous! I will definitely go for a ride today so that I can turn on WEEI. There will be demand for blood. I cannot imagine that there could be anything that will temper fan reaction. And truly, can you blame them?
Decaf, CR9, decaf:)
Francona better hope he can get Lackey out of this game in-between innings. If he has to walk off on a pitching change, it’s gonna get ugly.
Normally, I would be ecstatic that the Red Sox are being destroyed today, but I really, really, wanted the Rays to lose.
The Rays are looking very good.
I don’t believe the Sox will stay this horrible. I seem to remember the Yankees looking pretty pathetic last April. However, they had an injured CWM and the Red Sox were supposed to have a solid rotation. One would not expect Lester and Lackey to have back-to-back horrid days.
Great! There goes their bull pen.
Lackey YANKED after 3 innings, now they burn out the pen with wakefield pitching tomorrow.
Lackey knocked out after 3.1 innings and 7 taters given up, boo ya!!
Craw,
I watch all minor league games, whatever is on. I am more informed with Boston’s prospects because they are our direct competitors. Kelly is better than Banuelos and Ramirez, but if you disagree I”d like to hear why?
SJ44 and Betsy,
The Tigers/D-backs dealt with us because Kennedy and Jackson filled needs for both teams. The Red Sox, or whoever else was interested in Granderson didn’t have the proper players. That isn’t to say the Red Sox have less talent. Just that they didn’t have specifically what Arizona and Detroit were looking for.
Jeremy April 19th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
MaineYankee
Is Francona really that good ? Or was he helped out by having such good teams in 2004 and 2007 like Joe Torre during the dynasty years ?
——————————————————————————–
I suspect SJ44 could give you a better take on how he’s perceived in the game, but I think it wasn’t just what he had for talent.
Even if you have talent it takes a good manager to handle that talent. And Francona had some difficult players to handle on those teams.
WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
CC makin em pay!!!
Scott ATCHISON is back in. The guy looks like he is 50 years old….and Tim Wakefield’s uncle!!!!!
They are going to run this guy into the ground.
“Who are the Red Sox going to be able to offer the Padres exactly to extract Gonzalez. ”
Just a guess on the Gonzalez situation. But I think where Gonzalez goes is going to be very dependent on whether Kenny Williams decides to make Gordan Beckham available.
If he does, then I think it becomes extremely difficult for any team to match what the White Sox are going to be willing to do.
If I were Hoyer, that’s the kind of player I would target. I’d move him back to 2b and he’d be an all star for years.
The other variable is how much does Nolan Ryan think he can win now. Because if the Rangers want him, no team can match what they could trade in terms of pure prospects without including guys with major league experience like Beckham. But if it’s a pure prospect deal and Texas really wants Gonzalez (and he would be a massive star in Texas…) then it would be tough for any team – including the Rays – to match what Texas could include.
With Westmoreland and Tazawa out, the Sox ability to trade for Gonzalez becomes almost entirely dependent on Clay Buchholz have a breakout year.
So is Lackey pitching badly or is he just having bad luck with the errors behind him?
Craw,
That came off wrong. I don’t mean that I watch every single minor league game. Just that I watch whatever matchup looks interesting to me that happens to be going on.
The Sox are going to have to get strong starts out of their front 3 nearly every time out this year if they are going to stay in the race. They simply don’t have any wiggle room to make up for it if they don’t. They haven’t so far and it shows in the standings.
Now that’s what I like beantown, your relief pitching giving up runs!!
This just in. “The citizens of Red Sox Nation are piling into “The Big Dig” and opening the sea valves.”
There wasn’t enough rope in New England for everyone, I guess. Film at 6:00 PM.
Betsy
Pitching badly. The Rays are just making the Sox look really bad.
I thought Beckham was a star in Chicago;why would they trade him?
Betsy
It’s hard to believe, but even with the score, Lackey was being gifted strike calls and strikeouts, while Niemann has been squeezie squeezied.
BUT BUT TEH LACKEY11!!!!1111
Thanks, Jeremy. Oh well, he’s allowed a bad start or two, lol, but his first one came at a bad time. The Rays are very good, but it sounds like the Sox are just imploding.
Betsy, the error in the outfield only gave the hitters an extra base, but, would have ended up scoring anyway. Apparently, the official scorer took pity on Hall in center field and didn’t give him an error. Lackey is pleased with that.
CB,
Don’t you think Texas trading for Gonzalez would be a mistake? Smoak is going to be a great player for them if they stick with him.
Also, Beckham is playing 2B this year, did you mean move him back to SS?
CR9 April 19th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Betsy
It?s hard to believe, but even with the score, Lackey was being gifted strike calls and strikeouts, while Niemann has been squeezie squeezied.
*********************
Who’s the HP ump? Cowboy Joe West???
CB,
True. Boy, but if I’m Williams, there’s no way I part with Beckham. You’ d have to think, with Texas, that Smoak would be part of any deal to get Gonzalez, but I can’t see them offering Feliz.
Patrick,
That’s my point. If you have a good farm system, you should be able to make the Granderson trade with guys at the level of Kennedy and Jackson as prospects.
The Red Sox didn’t have that kind of talent. That means, they aren’t as good a system as the hype would indicate.
Doreen
You and I seem to be the only ones who wanted the Rays to feel a little loss today but doesn’t look like today is going to be our day.
CR, I just don’t believe you, no offense, when it comes to the umpire conspiracy theory.
rconn, I don?t see how their schedule gets any easier. Except for the Orioles, they have been terrible. Texas ran into a buzzsaw with the Yankees. The Rangers? ERA was the best in the league before they came to the Bronx. They have really good starting pitching and they have offense. Then they see Toronto.
I?m now thinking that I may have been generous in predicting they would finish third?
Of course this win by the Rays, (if they do beat beantown,) puts them a half game ahead of the Yankees, and Javier is pitching tomorrow .
GB, lol. That’s why the official scoring is so iffy. Buchholz put runners on base, and gave up a big hit to Burrell, but he gets “credit” for zero earned runs because of an error. Don’t pitchers need to pick up their fielders sometimes?
MaineYankee
Yeah you make a great point. Francona is a nice guy. And he made some choices in 2004 that helped them win.
SJ44,
I get where you’re coming from. I think that the Yankees were lucky to have players like Jackson and Kennedy in the system. I guess your point is that the Sox have a very bottom heavy system which is true. If you are rating the guys at the top I’d take Kennedy and Jackson over guys like Reddick, Bowden, Tazawa, etc. But I believe, if you look at each system as a whole the Red Sox have a bit of an edge.
It’s just my opinion. I think this argument has played itself out and I’m really hungry for lunch so I”ll talk to y’all later.
So, what does that mean? Its an automatic loss because Vazquez is pitching? You can’t be that dumb, can you?
A little early to worry about first place. I think its more about how the Yankees are playing.
Winning 9 out of 12 games gets you to the playoffs if that continues. That’s all that’s important.
I thought beckham was playing 3rd.
Winning 9 out of 12 games gets you to the playoffs if that continues. That?s all that?s important.
——
Haha not only that, it gets you in the record books as the best team of all time
I would have preferred the Sox to win, but I really don’t care, and I certainly don’t care that the Rays will be a half game ahead. We beat them twice in their park – that’s more important than a silly 1/2 game cushion.
Jeremy, with the extra player (steroids) the Sux had in 2004 and 2007 it is possible that a monkey could have managed them to a WS win.
Good morning, guys.
Was watching some espn this am, and I saw on the scroll that the Rays and Sox were tied at 0-0 with a man on 3B in the top of the 4th. Boy was I surprised to find out it was actually 6-0 at the time.
Anyone watching? Is that Joshie giving up all those runs?
It’s going to be interesting which player gets run by Campos, first….Zobrist or Pedroia.
I thought beckham was playing 3rd.
—-
They moved him to second in the offseason and that’s where he’s played this year.
Why exactly were the Yankees “lucky” to have Jackson and Kennedy? They drafted them, that’s not luck. I recall that people were FURIOUS after IPK was drafted…
lol. mazzarotti on tv right now. giving the low down on the season so far.
“Don’t you think Texas trading for Gonzalez would be a mistake? Smoak is going to be a great player for them if they stick with him.”
Patrick,
Because Gonzalez is such a special bat and glove- overall, he’s probably better than Tex.
And you really don’t know what Smoak is going to do. If you can get a guy like Gonzalez and sign him then that the foundation for your franchise.
At some point you have to try to win now. Is texas at that point? I don’t know. But if they feel like they are in that awful division then they would be much better off trading for Gonzalez rather than taking a chance with Smoak.
Part of why I say this is that 1b is just so brutal. Smoak could become a perennial .850 OPS player – and he would only be a league average 1b. Think about that. That’s how high the bar is to be a plus 1b.
Smoak struggled in AAA last year – and I believe that was in the PCL. Not a good sign. And as it is, it’s a bit unclear as to how much power he is going to hit for.
In the end you win championships with great players. Gonzalez is a truly great player. He’s young – he’s signed cheaply until winter of 2011/2010. He terrific defensively. He’s a good club house guy. It’s unlikely Smoak will that kind of all around presence. Those kinds of players are just so rare.
Plus once you trade for Gonzalez it’s not like you are going to miss Smoak as they play the same position. It’s a bit like Grandeson and Jackson.
And yes – I did mean SS with Beckham. Give him a shot there. He looked ok when he played in there in the bigs. Typing too fast.
mel, it was John Lackey – until it wasn’t. They’re into relief already.
YEAHHH!!!!
HP UMPIRE cheated Niemann out of an inning ending SO, only to result in an undeserved double.
But INNING OVER!!
“Anyone watching? Is that Joshie giving up all those runs?”
Watching off and on. Lackey was the designated boo-ee today but he’s out already.
Ike “the Savior ” Davis is on his way to NY, lol.
My point Patrick is, luck didn’t have anything to do with it. The Yankees drafted and developed those players well enough to be of interest to other teams and were able to make a big trade.
I think they should be given the same credit for something like that than any other team would.
Unfortunately, that goes by the wayside when talking about the farm system.
For you stat lovers out there, the Red Sox are now 0 for their last 32 with RISP.
Betsy
No offense taken. You dont have to believe any umpire opinion if you dont want to.
But I would appreciate it if you would believe that Lackey had the larger strike zone when compared to Niemann, today.
I know Yankees fans are not unbiased, but many on here are watching the game and see the same thing I’m seeing.
You guys need to get off Patrick. I think most Red Sox minor leaguers get a little overrated, but their system is still good. They were able to trade players for Victor Martinez.
Its one thing to cheer for the yankees, its another to try and white knight the Yankees at any perceived injustice. There is nothing wrong with the Yankees farm system being ‘middle of the pack’. You have to take into consideration all the ways a farm system can help.
Do the Yankees have a ton of knock out prospects? No.
But they do not lack in having a wide range of ‘medium’ guys that form the foundation for good trades and can provide help at the major league level for partial portions of a season. That is an admirable quality, and a perfect fit for a team that is mostly filled out by established free agents. The Rays, Rangers, Pirates, Nationals need A+ prospects that come up and become stars. They end up with these A+ prospects but fall into the trap of not having guys they are willing to trade because it turns any trade they make into a blockbuster where they will be crucified if the guys they traded go on to be good.
Look at the Red Sox and Angels, two highly touted farm systems that have helped make 2 big deals in the past 4 years (victor martinez, mark teixeira) ,and for the most part their system is not producing the kind of guys that will help them get over the hump. And both clubs are scared to move their chips. The Red Sox get mentioned in EVERY deal and they always fold. If you hold onto your chips until you’re out of the casino they ain’t worth jack.
The Yankees have made a couple of huge trades that other teams were not willing to make due to salary/not having enough prospects in that middle range to feel comfortable giving them up, and have had a lot of help internally.
I absolutely agree that Cashman has used his resources wisely. And it was lucky they got granderson, because luck is partially to do with not having traded ajax/kennedy before Granderson came available. Both were bandied about in a lot of trade rumors.
For the ones that want the RS to win, if you lived among RS fans I promise you would feel differently.
I almost had to go into hiding after 04 it got so bad.
Recent tweet from Pete Abe:
“J.D. Drew just doubled. The game is being paused while he is given the key to the city”
OK, that’s just funny.
I can see the White Sox offering up Ramirez as part of a San Diego deal before Beckham. They may have made a mistake in trading Getz for Teahan, though. He was a pesky hitter with speed and a pretty good glove at 2nd base.
lol. I thought it was Lackey at first because I saw his face on mlb.com yesterday. But I thought he was their #3!
Just last night I almost wrote here that Lackey was the lone bright spot for the team. Oops.
“# trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 19th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Jeremy, with the extra player (steroids) the Sux had in 2004 and 2007 it is possible that a monkey could have managed them to a WS win.”
LMAO!!! Truer words have never been spoken.
__
Betsy
Also, the Rays broadcast have been showing FOX TRAX the whole game showing the disparity in calls.
trisha
LOL !
RISPrevention
i agree Main Yankee . .I live in Rhode Island and have to put up with alot of Red Sox BS.. So its always nice to see a butt whipping like this
# Jenny April 19th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
RISPrevention”
Now thats GOOD! Clever, original, befitting!!!
Wait. He is their #3. I forgot, they went with Beckett #1 instead of Lester.
oh well…
Top 3 rotation is all that’s important.
Another interesting stat….Brett Gardner has 2 more SB than the entire Red Sox team.
CB – The Red Sox aren’t able to have a backup CF on the roster. They have 3 roster spots plugged for the foreseeable future in Ortiz, Lowell, and Varitek. Three aged, and extremely limited players. They all have declining bats, no position to play, and can’t run the bases. Yet, because of contractual issues they are stuck with them, unless they DFA them and eat the salaries.
A few years ago the Yankees were rightfully criticized for poor roster construction. The Red Sox are now facing that same dilemma.
Never said Yankees lose tomorrow, just pointing out the only no wins (yet) pitcher is pitching for the Yankees . I hope tomorrow is his day.
SJ44 and Betsy,
The luck in trading for Granderson is that Ajax and IPK were held onto long enough, but not too long, for Granderson to become available AND fit the criteria for what Detroit/Arizona wanted.
Detroit specifically wanted a major league ready outfielder that could fill in for Granderson, and Arizona wanted 2 starters capable of breaking with the camp. So the Yankees had 2 prospects that were uniquely placed in their total value for that trade. Both guys weren’t A+ prospects, but they both were good enough and had enough ability to break camp with any team.
Detroit likely could have had got players with higher ceilings, but that wasn’t necessarily what they were looking for. Arizona and Detroit both want to compete for their divisions this year and thats one of those things where its just a perfect fit.
Part of it is the skill that Cashman had in being able to help the club WITHOUT trading IPK (remember the IPK for Gagne rumors when Boston was giving up KASON GABBARD?) , but in anything involving 30 teams moving pieces, there will be luck/opportunity/timing.
Of course this win by the Rays, (if they do beat beantown,) puts them a half game ahead of the Yankees, and Javier is pitching tomorrow .
___
So?
Gawd. The sux are gonna be 1-6 at home, after today.
“Recent tweet from Pete Abe:
?J.D. Drew just doubled. The game is being paused while he is given the key to the city?
OK, that?s just funny.”
Funny on so many levels.
The problem for the Sux, even taking as a given that they will get better, is that the team is such a mess that better might not be good enough. Their offense is Pedroia and Pukey. Even with sterling pitching that’s not going to do the trick. And I don’t know that you can count on sterling pitching. Then look at their catcher situation. That’s a drama in itself. Martinez DHing with Varitek catching? That’s not going to work out.
I just don’t see good things happening for them this season.
Headline for a story in the Boston Herald this am. “It’s getting late early”.
Trisha,
It’s early. Toronto is already falling back down to earth and Baltimore is just awful. Texas has a real problem with their offense. They are an undisciplined hitting team and they defense was woeful.
My point is, the Red Sox will play better. Jon Lester is not going to continue to have an 8.44 ERA and Lackey won’t give up 8 runs every start.
Let’s enjoy their April swoon while it lasts. As long as the Yankees continue to win series, what the Red Sox do simply won’t matter.
Jerkface, that’s not luck that Cash didn’t trade them, that’s smarts. He wasn’t about to trade those guys just to trade them.
Who’s getting on Patrick? Some of us just disagree with him and I don’t think anyone said the Sox have a bad system.
i hope boston gets buried in such a hole that they are watching yanks and the rays duke it out. dont care that the rays are crushing boston all over the place.
“Gawd. The sux are gonna be 1-6 at home, after today.”
And that’s their most bitter pill of all. Their claim to fame is being a solid home team.
Ledger_Yankees RT @AmalieBenjamin: Correction: #RedSox are now 0-for-last-32 with RISP. Yuck. // #nyy
RedSox 0-4 with RISP today and 0-29 last four games. They have scored seven runs in the last 41 innings
about 1 hour ago
boston will get better which is why they need to be beaten as badly as possible now.
I agree, RConn. It’s even way too early to follow the Rays……what’s the point, really?
How “good” a farm system is is something that’s fun to debate and gets a lot of attention.
But in a certain way how “good” the system is, is secondary to how “useful” it is to the parent club and organization.
That’s especially true for teams that are trying to win.
The yankees talent isn’t great right now and much of that is due to all of the young players they’ve called up or recently used to make trades that have helped the club.
A number of other teams might have “better” farm systems but that’s really ok because the yanks system is well suited to be a significant utility to the major league team.
Guys like Ryan Kalish, Josh Reddick, Austin Jackson, etc. are the kind of guys who tend to get systems ranked higher.
At the same time, it seems unlikely that any of those players would be good enough to start for either the Sox or the Yankees.
That’s what makes utility a major factor for teams like the Sox and Yankees. Can Josh Reddick be an everyday major league player. Probably. Can he be an everyday majore league starter for the Red Sox over the long haul? I really can’t see that. He’s just not good enough to give one of their 3 starting outfield spots to other than in a pinch or for a season or two perhaps in CF.
The requirements to start for the Sox or the Yanks or the Rays is just so high most “blue chip” prospects aren’t going to meet the standard even if they go on to “make it.”
Joe,
That’s a great point.
Here’s what I don’t get in the whole Red Sox-Yankees/Theo-Cashman stuff….
The Red Sox are EVERY BIT as much a major market team as the Yankees.
They have a payroll in excess of 160 million this year, sink millions into their farm system, and have the resources to acquire additional assets if needed. Just like the Yankees.
Yet, the Red Sox are talked about as if they are the “little engine that could”.
Their farm system is overhyped. The Yankees actually have more homegrown players on their roster. Yet, they receive no credit for that.
Folks whine the Yankees signed CC, AJ and Tex last off-season. The Sox sign 3 FA’s this past off-season? Theo is “brilliant”.
The Yankees make a great deal for Granderson, they are “lucky”.
I don’t get that.
I say, grade both franchises on the same curve and stop with the overhyping, little engine that could nonsense when it comes to the Red Sox.
This current Red Sox roster isn’t good. Sure, there is a LOT of baseball to be played.
However, look at the roster objectively and its clear its inferior to the Yankees and Rays.
Who put the roster together? Theo.
Perhaps, we can now stop with the “Boy Genius” nonsense now because there is nothing “genius” about the makeup of this current Red Sox roster.
Jerkface, I do agree that the Sox may be gun shy about making trades. However, they did make the V-Mart trade, so maybe I’m wrong. I also don’t have a problem with the Sox holding onto Buchholz; that doesn’t mean they are afraid to make a big deal, just that they really like him. The Yankees have held onto Phil – it’s the same thing.
The real problem for the Red Sox is they are now in the hole 6 games behind two teams, instead of just the Yankees.
Again, they will play better, but down six (of 5 1/2) to two teams this early ain’t good.
Sorry, filter problems. Ignore this post.
Also, I’m not saying Kelly isn’t better than Banuelos or Ramirez (he may or may not be), but Patrick sounded so absolute…
You know that it’s just not your year when Pat Burrell has two of the biggest hits in a three game stretch and two hits halfway through a fourth game.
rconn, I didn’t see them as a huge threat this season (I know, I never do) so I’m not worried about what they do and don’t do. I guess I’m just amazed to see them playing this poorly. And I don’t see enough potential cohesion in any aspect of the team as to be able to overcome the poor parts. So while it is likely they will get better, I’m thinking better is not good enough.
I personally am definitely enjoying the Yankees run, but then I always do. So for me, this is sheer delight. If the Sux were 11-1 I wouldn’t be worrying. So seeing them in this position is crazy good.
CB
Correct me if I’m wrong. The strength of the Yankees minors isn’t based on how much high end talent but how well they utilise the talent they have.
Patrick
I’m curious in your opinion what makes Casey Kelley head and shoulders better than Banuelos or say Hector Noesi.
because based on stuff and on field performance to date he hasn’t been.
And for as much as he’s hyped he actually is very similar in stuff to Zach McCallister and IPK in that his stuff is not frot of the ro’ type as far as velo but he has pitchibilty i.e. command/control
CB
Sorry didn’t see your post above.
“The Red Sox aren’t able to have a backup CF on the roster. They have 3 roster spots plugged for the foreseeable future in Ortiz, Lowell, and Varitek.”
Agreed. When you look at the Red Sox roster this season (and even last season) it’s very easy to think back to the yankees in 2008.
It is a poorly constructed roster that simply doesn’t acknowledge the inherent risk of one of its core strategy – reliance on older players who do some things well and other things poorly.
Cameron is 38. Scutaro is 34.
They do not have a legitimate back up at either CF or SS. Bill Hall is their back up for both positions. I guess they could consider Ellsbury their back up CF but it’s not ideal for a guy who is learning LF at Fenway to be switching back and forth.
Bill Hall is a guy who can’t even play 3b anymore. He’s a LF at best. And he’s backing up two premium defensive positions for the older starters.
At the same time they have 2 DH’s – neither of whom can hit.
They were lauded for taking a “low risk high reward” flier on Jeremy Hermida. But here’s the thing – they gave their one back up outfielder slot to a guy that can’t play CF.
It’s just hard to believe. What was Theo thinking?
Theo knows baseball is a game of great pitching, followed by great hitting. Why did he try to go with the good defense mantra. Every team that was in the playoffs last season were there because of offense and defense.
Bosox fans are chomping at the bit over buying into this latest Theo theory.
Hey Theo you need both!!
wow, youk down to .222?
The Big Pop Up strikes again!
Casey Kelly is a much better prospect than Noesi. Its not even close.
Kelly has 4 pitches he can locate and throw for strikes in any count. That’s very unusual for a kid that young. Noesi doesn’t possess that arsenal.
Banuelos best pitch is a changeup and that pitch can be a dominant pitch at the lower levels of the minors. The question will be whether his fastball and his other pitches can reach the level of his changeup as he moves up the ranks. If they do, the Yankees have something in him.
He’s only 20. By mid-summer last year, before he started playing SS, he was throwing 91-92, with late movement.
I think now that he is a fulltime pitcher, meaning he is on a fulltime throwing program, he will add a tick to his velocity and it will stay pretty constant.
He is a better pitching prospect than anybody the Yankees currently have in their system.
Any objective person would agree with that statement.
Brett Gardner is also off to a great start, with a .444 on base percentage and 9 runs scored in 10 games.
im sorry but tampa’s pitching is just not as good as boston is making them look.
CB, terrific post. Also, it’s possible for players to be productive without being stars. No one will confuse Cervelli with Mauer, but he’s a very good defensive C and he’s hit in his limited time. Pena is probably just a utility INF, but he’s also hit in his limited time. Both players have won more than one game for the Yankees in their short time.
Is the goal to try and develop a few foundation players and hopefully surround those players with other sound, solid players ? If so, maybe the Yanks are in fairly decent shape.
Re: Ortiz
REPOST
Also, reports are the Red Sox might release Ortiz rather than just stashing him on the bench!
What an ignominious end to his Red Sox (baseball) career that would be.
SJ44
It’s funny because the RS fans have bought into the theory that the Yankees have an unfair advantage. I tell them to go talk to a KC fan.
i think it is time to test papi in left field
Then what’s all the excitement about Ramirez?
“The real problem for the Red Sox is they are now in the hole 6 games behind two teams, instead of just the Yankees.
Again, they will play better, but down six (of 5 1/2) to two teams this early ain?t good.”
There you go.
However, they did make the V-Mart trade, so maybe I?m wrong.
–
The Red Sox have so many non-trades (which may or may not even be true) due to their media leaks and sources and whatever, that its hard to grade them, but they have held onto Ellsbury/Buchholz/Bowden/Lowrie for too long.
People here are high on Hagadone, but the Vmart trade was kind of like the nady trade for the Yankees. Masterson was outliving his usefulness to the red sox and hagadone wasn’t really slated to make an impact. Easily absorbable.
Theo is too scared to trade guys like Ellsbury and Buchholz because he either buys into their hype, or doesn’t want to risk being exposed if the guy he trades them for doesn’t work out. I think the Red Sox just don’t internally scout as well as the Yankees do, or might be buying too much into their Bill James metric systems.
They could have had Johan Santana for Ellsbury and Bowden. Probably could have got Cliff Lee.
Meanwhile, the Yankees have a good prospect in IPK and Austin Jackson, and Cashman pulls the trigger. A-jax and IPK could have helped us this year, but Cash made the deal. And so far its working out greatly for everyone.
what exactly is Noesi’s arsenal of pitches SJ?
and btw all he does is throw strikes and locate as evidenced by his strikeout to walk ratios….
And if that’s true about Kelly, then the Sox have to get credit for drafting him and the Yanks demerits for not having a pitcher like that in their sytem. How high exactly is Kelly’s ceiling?
The Sox already have Lester and Buchholz; I’m not thrilled to hear they have another high-ceiling pitcher. Phil really has to step up…..but even so, the Sox pitching looks to be in great shape for the future.
right now, there’s only ONE team in BOTH leagues that has more losses than Boston – Baltimore.
That is true about the non-superstar kids the Yankees have. In Pena’s limited time I think he’s batting .800 (4-5) with the bases loaded. When they get their shot they make it count.
Ortiz’ bat is disappearing as fast as Mo Vaughn’s did. All of a sudden. There one day and gone the next.
Maine
A fair advantage, my patootie.
100+ million more than other teams, and they dont even get Yankee taxed. I’d say they are a better advantage than the Yankees.
Oh, how I love the underdog!!! YANKEES!!!!
Now Fenway is half empty and they’re playing with a beach ball in the stands.
Jerkface, why say the Sox held onto Buchholz for too long when the Yankees have held onto Phil? Who’s to say Buchholz won’t be a great pitcher? He may or he may just be good, but the Sox like him – the way the Yanks like Phil. It’s the same thing.
I doubt AJax would have helped us this year. Kennedy? Maybe……I don’t really think he’s an AL East pitcher, but Granderson will help us a lot more in any case.
# GreenBeret7 April 19th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Ortiz’ bat is disappearing as fast as Mo Vaughn’s did. All of a sudden. There one day and gone the next.
======================
Kinda like Keyser Söze
“Kinda like Keyser Söze”
HAHA!!!
Betsy – that’s the thing with reseves/backups. They’re missing a few tools, that’s why they’re backups. With Cervelli and Pena, they’re strong points are that you’re not missing anything with their D. Anything you get from their bats is a plus. And, maybe because they are backups, they kind of sneak up on teams – when they’re batting, maybe there’s a psychological let down by the pitcher, and he slips up for a moment, something for them to capitalize on. Like Pena’s 2-run single yesterday. Harden got it up and over just enough for Pena to guess right and hit it hard enough to drop in.
Playing these guys regularly would likely expose their hitting, can’t do on a consistent basis.
Yanks are using Cisco and Pena just right. And it’s showing.
The Sox already have Lester and Buchholz; I’m not thrilled to hear they have another high-ceiling pitcher. Phil really has to step up…..but even so, the Sox pitching looks to be in great shape for the future.
___
Buchholz has yet to prove anything short of beating up on the Orioles.
They are tied to Beckett, DiceK, Lackey also. No telling how those three will progress/digress. I’ll give you Lester, but they are in now way looking like a future force on the mound.
“im sorry but tampa?s pitching is just not as good as boston is making them look.”
Agree.
Betsy the difference is that Hughes is better than bucholz
As Yankee fans we’ve been forced to deal with the “brilliant” Red Sox over the past 6 years and it’s stung. There’s an arrogance associated with the Red Sox that is impossible to avoid. It’s come clear through the national media.
We’ve been told time and again, “they do it the right way”.
From my perspective, I disagree. Their two WS titles are as steroid tainted as any going back to the Oakland Bash Brothers years.
They buy players constantly. A lot of players we are accused of overspending on are players the Red Sox were close to spending on but we topped them or the player chose NY instead.
If there wasn’t this national consensus over the years that what we do is gaudy and crass and what they do is righteous and oh so classy, we wouldn’t be as ticked off as a fanbase as we are.
The fact is, that team (outside of it’s 3 starters) is not well put together.
They are going to be forced to make some tough decisions and I think at some point Theo is going to come out and say, “Well I told you all it was a bridge year, so I fully expected us to struggle against the evil empire with all their money” and the press will eat that up.
But if anyone buys that, they’re buying a bridge to nowhere. Manny and Ortiz made that team champions. Just like Jeter, Mo, Bernie, O’Neil, Tino, etc made us champs. Without these pivotal players, we don’t win.
And Theo and his cronies can’t admit that, because in their eyes it’s management and the system in place that won those championships. Not the iconic players who, in my eyes, deserve more of the credit than anyone.
I’m fascinated to see how Theo works his way out of this one. He’s light on prospects to land a big player. Any trade he makes will hurt dearly. They are already at a very high salary commitment and will be forced to spend to be relevant in the next 4 years they have all that pitching locked up. He cannot afford to miss on a free agent signing or a trade acquisition.
As for the Yankees, I like it that the national media think we do it wrong. That doesn’t bother me because we as fans know otherwise. You look at the makeup of this roster and how it was put together and developed and you can’t be anything other than proud of how we’ve kept our beloved stars and we’re integrating young players while acquiring the right kind of players who fit into what we do here.
In the past, George would acquire players just to get the big fish. Now, we only get the big fish if we’re hungry and it’s the right kind of fish.
Not signing Bay or Holliday last season showed the Yankees are more than happy to throw a big fish back in the water and wait for the one they really want to catch.
Cashman is doing a great job here and I have the utmost confidence in the decisions this organization is making.
I don’t think you can find many Boston fans who feel the same way.
john henry likes to complain about the yankees payroll. He is #2 of 30 by a good 30 Million so he needs to shove off.
When will people finally understand that Theo Epstein is the most overrated GM in all of baseball. The guy was not responsible for the Red Sox championships in 2004 and 2007. All he did was trade for Schilling and made a couple of mid season trades but the foundation was already there, also the Josh Beckett trade was not his doing because he left the organization for a while and he didn’t want to make the trade. And in terms of the farm other guys in the organization were responsible for brining up guys like Lester, Dustin, and so on.
The point is that Theo is not that good. The media just hypes him up.
rconn is absolutely correct. Easy to close in on 1 team, but not so easy to do it with 2 teams. As we know from experience.
Boston has a 177 million dollar payroll. If they finish in 3rd place that will be bad.
He’s a fastball, breaking ball pitcher champ. He breaking stuff is so so. His fastball is good for the level he is pitching in at this time.
Its not about stats in the minors. If it was, Edwar Ramirez would be an all star.
Its about quality of stuff, consistency and projectability.
Noesi just isn’t as talented as Casey Kelly and isn’t as projectable because he doesn’t have the arsenal Kelly possesses.
Perhaps he exceeds his projection. He wouldn’t be the first prospect to do so.
However, right now, he’s not in Kelly’s class as a prospect.
Tampa’s got the beginnings of an outstanding 1-4 rotation and their #5 is close to what Hughes is. It’s only their bullpen that could hurt them, later in the season as the innings mount.
“The strength of the Yankees minors isn’t based on how much high end talent but how well they utilise the talent they have.”
Maine,
That’s part of it as I wrote in my post above. But just one thing on the idea of high end talent.
Truly high end, elite talent is tremendously important to the yanks. What’s less valuable, and what I was trying to get at, is guys who are often regarded as strong prospects for most organizations.
Guys who can start for other teams just will never be good enough to start for the yankees.
In a certain sense, roster spots – and especially starting spots are just so valuable to the yanks that it really inverts the usual relationship major league clubs have with their farm systems.
For one minute, let’s just assume the Red Sox do indeed have the “best” farm system in the majors (which is what Keith Law’s opinion is – how they are better than Texas or Tampa is beyond be but let’s forget that for a minute).
Even if the current Boston system was the “best” I would still rather have the yankees system because of Jesus Montero.
The Sox have no one even remotely close to Montero’s level. Even if they have the deeper system filled with toolsy guys those aren’t the kind of players who are going to make a difference in the future as the Sox and compete at the major league leval.
It’s players like Manny and Jeter and Alex who make the difference. Not saying he is going to – but Montero has a shot to become that kind of player. The kind of player who is clearly worth giving a one of 8 starting position spots to.
The presence of Montero alone makes the yankees system extremely well suited to the parent clubs needs.
The other aspect of a minor league system that is very valuable to these clubs is depth in pitching. You just can never have enough and pitching is the area where having even guys who profile as back end guys/ middle relievers is immensely valuable.
And to me that’s one of the major differences between the yanks system and the sox. The sox system is filled with Josh Reddick type players. The yankee system is filled with Zach McCallister type players.
The system with more Josh Reddick type players may very well be “better” but I do think having more Zach McCallister type players is of higher utility value to the parent club both in terms of providing depth and acting as trade chips.
Well, I either overestimated the Sox or underestimated the Rays.
I thought the Sox would be better than the Rays.
I drank the Kool-aid, and it sucked.
tampa looks good. the pen will do them in though…. they arent going to get 7-8 innings from their starters like they are now.
Joe, I wasn’t trying to suggest Pena and Cervelli were starters, just that it’s possible for a team to develop productive players that aren’t stars or even regulars. Every team needs a Cervelli and Pena..
Patrick, I can’t even compare the two as prospects because I don’t know that much about pitching. I know that I think Phil will be a stud, but I have no idea what Clay’s ceiling is. The fact is, the Sox like him and they clearly know what they are doing when it comes to pitching. Therefore, I think it’s premature to say that they should have traded him.
GreenBeret7 April 19th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Ortiz? bat is disappearing as fast as Mo Vaughn?s did. All of a sudden. There one day and gone the next
———————————————————————-
Maybe they can trade him to the Mets.
Cb just to clear this up, law ranked Boston second best with Texas as the best. He also clarified that tampa and Boston were basically tied for second. This was also all done before westmoreland was diagnosed.
I saw Casey Kelly throw in a spring training game this year on tv. He did look good. He is only 20 years old and will be of no help to the Sox for what 2or3 years. Just like some of the Yankee prospects unless you are going to trade him he does the Sox no good at all. Plus starting pitching is supposed to be the strength of the Sox anyway. The Sox made a mistake this off season in not resigning Bay or going after Holliday.
GLove, great post. Yes, it bothers me that there is a double standard when it comes to the Sox and Yanks. The Sox will never shake their lovable losers rep- the media makes me sick when they criticize the Yankees for the same thing the Sox do. It also bothers me that the media kills the Yankees for everything they do – I’m not as sanguine about it as you, unfortunately, lol. I want the Yankees to get credit for what they do, but they won’t. Even now, they are flying under the radar as the Phillies and Rays are the “hot” teams.
i think niemann has reached his limit. next!
Jerkface, why say the Sox held onto Buchholz for too long when the Yankees have held onto Phil? Who?s to say Buchholz won?t be a great pitcher? He may or he may just be good, but the Sox like him ? the way the Yanks like Phil. It?s the same thing.
–
The difference is that Buchholz has never been the kind of pitching prospect Hughes was in the minors. I am not even talking about stats. Buchholz has had a very good minor league career because he has 2 plus offspeed pitches. Hughes dominated the minors with a fastball and a curveball he learned while in the system. Buchholz had 3 pitches , but was often pitching backwards from his off-speed stuff because his fastball wasn’t on the same level as Hughes fastball or Buchholz offspeed stuff. The Red Sox have done a lot of tinkering with Buchholz in the last few years and its interesting that he has never really been able to take hold of a major league spot and that he has been a constant mention in trade rumors.
The Yankees had Joba, IPK, and Hughes that were basically interchangable in trade rumors, the Red Sox only ever had Buchholz and just based on how he attacked hitters wasn’t on the same level as Joba and Hughes.
He is still a very good prospect, but he should have never held Boston back from making a quality trade. Because, really, if he is so awesome and untradable, why sign Brad Penny and John Smoltz? Why get Paul Byrd?
SJ, GB, Patrick, Betsy, Trisha, ??
I believe the RSox are in trouble, but not out of it yet. They could still buy their way out as I think that is about their only option right now. If they were to accept a Wells contract from Toronto (Full contract) and trade for a good Catcher like Molina at SF, then they could actually be much better. A catcher like Benjie could allow Martinez to be the DH & spot C and improve their defense & offense. Having Wells in CF would allow Cameron to move to LF and maybe shore up that defense in LF. Wells is a great hitter now that he is healthy.
What do you think?
I’m sure Kelly is a really good pitcher, but I’m now so sure how good he really is beyond the hype machine that’s been in full mode for him. This season in AA ball will be very telling as to how good of a pitcher he is, especially with him pitching fulltime for the first time in his young life.
Who is the Rays’ #5?
You watch Joe Maddon manage this Rays team – the way he is constantly pushing his starters when it seems like the guy is losing some of his stuff – and you see a manager who is scared of his bull pen.
I still think the Yankees are better even if the Rays improve their pen.
Honestly, I like Keith but, he is so wrong ranking the Red Sox farm system in the same class as Tampa or Texas its not even funny.
When you do stuff like that, it screams “agenda” all over it.
Those two teams, particularly Tampa, are loaded at every level. Boston’s is not.
Anybody thinking so will be tested this year.
This Red Sox team is not very good and could use some help from the system.
Ok, let’s see the vaunted farm system at work, starting now because, they need some help to get going. Where is it coming from?
MaineYankee April 19th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
GreenBeret7 April 19th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Ortiz? bat is disappearing as fast as Mo Vaughn?s did. All of a sudden. There one day and gone the next
———————————————————————-
Maybe they can trade him to the Mets.
———————————————————————————————————————-
The Mets could really use a superstar, slugging first baseman with Gold glove potential like Ortiz.
Watch out….the Red sox Nation is shutting off the sea valves in the Big Dig and heading for Fenway to chear on the Beantowne 9. There’s hope in their hearts. Their eyes are closed but, what heart.
Jeff Niemann 100 pitches 7 innings.
Only gave up a 2 run HR with 2 outs in the 7th.
Sonnanstine is warming. Not sure if I should be worried.
I think that bengie Molina is not a good catcher and is by no means the solution to bostons problems. If the sox want to fix the catcher position they should go after Kurt Suzuki
Drinking kool aid in Hawaii… life should be so hard!
But I must remind everyone that the Yankees closed in on 4 teams once. Came all the way back from the basement. But that was in May, when there was plenty of season left, and that was the Yankees with a solid rotation.
OH, OH!! The Rays are in deep trouble now. Lazzarus Varitek is now catching for Boston.
Yeah I agree sj, ranking Boston 2 or 3 is a bit crazy. Even before westmoreland going down I wouldn’t put them better than 10th best
Betsy
All the credit the Yankees need is the trophy and the rings.
Montero with his first HR.
SJ44 April 19th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
This Red Sox team is not very good
———————————————————
But SJ, Peter Gammons went on the MLB channel, two weeks ago, today and said the sox would win it all.
Jeremy Hermida is a bright spot on the Red Sox right now, and he is ugly and white enough to be mistaken for a Red Sox farmhand.
Brilliant Red Sox system produces another gritster, reads Peter Gammons.
Patrick-
Thanks for the clarification on Law. I thought he’d ranked the Sox #1 for some reason.
That said, I am also puzzled by how the Rays and Sox have equivalent systems even with Westmoreland being healthy.
The Rays have a great system. Texas is on a level of their own but Tampa seems to be next up and almost entirely on their own level as well.
The fact that Tampa is playing well early means they may draw more fans & free up some money for acquiring an extra player or two. It also may allow them to make a trade some potential keepers as well from their deep minor league system.
The problems I have with the Minor League rankings is it is based mostly on stats and not all fields or elevations are the same. Take Hirsch for instance. If he had pitched on a real field for the Rockies he would have still been a Rockie. He pitched on a hitters dream field and skewed not only his stats but the way he pitches too. Hitters get all these HR on those type fields and get pushed up as a top prospect.
I know tools play a part, but it is easily skewed for pitchers and power hitters.
Jerkface, good points. Just to clarify, I was not saying that CB was better than Phil, just that he’s their “Phil”. I guess we’ll know more this year, but Clay has quite a bit more experience than Phil….I don’t necessarily expect Phil to match his numbers. I’ll just be happy if he has a solid year where he shows that he’s moving toward reaching his ceiling.
Ray, I never write the Sox or any team off this early.
I also never pay attention to what Law has to say.
Ray VT, I don’t think Toronto would be willing to let go of Vernon Wells. I don’t know if Wells has a no trade, but I don’t know that he’d want to leave either. And I don’t know if they’ve really dug themselves into a hole with Victor Martinez because they probably aren’t going to sit with three catchers. I think the big problem is that the Sux are not in a great situation to be a buying team because they don’t really have much to offer that other teams want or need – or that they will part with anyway.
Last year when the RS needed a utility IF they went out and got Chris Woodward. This year they get Bill Hall and then end up putting him in the outfield.
You mean they don’t have a Pena or a gardner in their system to bring up. Head scratcher.
“This Red Sox team is not very good and could use some help from the system.
Ok, let’s see the vaunted farm system at work, starting now because, they need some help to get going. Where is it coming from?”
Like NYY the year they brought up Cano and Wang. Provided real spark.
All the talk of prospects must have been burning Jesus’ ears. Hit 1st AAA hr!
Patrick April 19th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Good point Patrick. Suzuki would be a good choice. I just thought Benjie could hit & field and might be available via a trade.
for some reason, no one will talk to me today here on cape cod.
as i walk down the sidewalk to get the mail at the grocery store , i see bodies diving into alleyways , turning the other direction, bending down to tie their shoes , etc.
strange , very strange
CB,
Great point about Maddon pushing his starters. Garza is a horse, but he was clearly on fumes in the 8th yesterday, and there was no reason to keep him out there given lead.
I still believe Howell is their most effective reliever, despite the Soriano signing. They need him back.
Ray VT, if they were to be able to make some kind of deal that would allow Martinez to DH, what would that do to Big Floppy? You’re talking about some major moves here, and I don’t think there’s a team on earth that would want Big Floppy.
I think they have some issues that may not be resolvable for them this season.
Alas.
The fact that Tampa is playing well early means they may draw more fans & free up some money for acquiring an extra player or two. It also may allow them to make a trade some potential keepers as well from their deep minor league system.
–
They don’t draw. Even in their WS run their attendance upticked but most of the money they dropped for ’09 and ’10 was from their playoff revenue. They have crap attendance for all games outside of red sox/yankees. Don’t expect them to get a huge influx of cash, they are already well ‘over budget’.
They need to move.
ST Pete is a terrible location.
Betsy,
I think when the dust clears Phil Hughes will be the better pitcher. Buchholz is way too wild in the majors. You’re right not to put a lot of expectation on him, but I’m hoping for a big year out of Phil.
Bartlett a HR away from the cycle, a 9th inning AB and a 6 run lead.
He’ll be aiming for the Monster.
McAllister is pitching really well through 2 innings. only 27 pitches and 5 out of the strike zone. 9 of those pitches to the last batter. 1 hit, 0 walks and 2 strikeouts
G. Love-
That was one great post.
trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 19th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
I’m sure toronto likes the production they are getting from Wells right now, but he has an insane contract. $19M+/yr over next several years. I’d bet they’d trade that in a heartbeat to anyone that would accept that contract.
I thought one of Buchholz’s main problems was that he got rattled easily with runners on base. I know Hughes has had his own struggles, but he always had a reputation for being cool and collected on the mound. Buchholz’s issues are almost as much mental as physical. Now thinking about it, I’m glad the Yankees put Hughes in the bullpen last year because I don’t think it can be overstated how much that must have done to his confidence.
Golson triples to right. Lord that kid can run.
Trevor April 19th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Montero with his first HR.
*******************
Good for Montero!! The first of many, I’m sure.
trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 19th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
I think big poppy gets released or sits on the bench all year.
randy l. April 19th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
for some reason, no one will talk to me today here on cape cod.
as i walk down the sidewalk to get the mail at the grocery store , i see bodies diving into alleyways , turning the other direction, bending down to tie their shoes , etc.
strange , very strange
—————————————————————————————-
I think it’s because of your narly disposition.
CB,
lol. I’m still a southern girl. I love my sweet tea!
I’m thinking that the Jays would love to unload Wells and his contract. His contract may be one of the worst in baseball. He is owed about 115 mil until 2014.
Injury updates:
Ellsbury has shown very little improvement with his ribs.
Cameron had to be sent to Massaschusetts General today, following pain similar to with the kidney stone.
Gb-
Thanks for the updates.
Montero Hr., and Z-Mac pitching well =
Jerkface April 19th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
I know what you mean about St Pete, but Tampa drew very well the last ? of the season in their WS year. If they can keep winning they will draw well soon. That is what I meant by the money being there perhaps. Also, they will sell more Rays stuff.
I love watching the Sox lose, but it’s becoming a little scary how inept they are against TB. The Red Sox always play us tough, and we might need a little help holding the Rays off for the division. The only team the Rays can’t beat pretty handedly is the Yankees, but they could go a long way beating up on weaker AL teams.
SJ44,
I’ve been having htis discussion with Sox fans lately.
They just don’t have any MLB ready guys to step in.
They have plenty of speed guys in the lower level and some arms in the lower levels.
The “savior” in the system is a guy who hasn’t pitched about A ball yet.
They have some talent for sure, but I don’t see a legit power bat yet, which is a huge need.
“I love my sweet tea!”
Me too!!! I love Georgian’s sweet tea best of ones I’ve tasted!
Now for the 9th inning beantown has to come up with 7 runs to win. Ortiz, Beltre and Drew due up next, this is gonna be gooood!
RS April 19th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
I love watching the Sox lose, but it?s becoming a little scary how inept they are against TB. The Red Sox always play us tough, and we might need a little help holding the Rays off for the division. The only team the Rays can?t beat pretty handedly is the Yankees, but they could go a long way beating up on weaker AL teams.
———————————————————————————————–
The same can be said for the Yankees.
Scranton leaves Golson at third base
Ray Vt, but why would Oakland let go of Kurt Suzuki? They’d be crazy to do that. They have some tremendous young arms there and most of them, if not all, have had Suzuki as their catcher. Suzuki is also a good offensive catcher. I don’t think Oakland would want to start messing around with potential success just to help out Boston.
Alas.
m
dont know if you saw earlier, but Beane is looking to lock Suzuki up long term!!! WooHoo!
I was just checking in on Erica’s Avengers-
Man, I heart Carl Crawford
lol Stewart on espn saying that the Sox are fighting for the WC in the 2nd week. Give the AL trophy to the Yankees already. Bayless, “You two guys are hostages of the pro-Yankee guys that dominate our pre-show meetings.”
Bayless, do not resist. They only speak the truth.
“If the sox want to fix the catcher position they should go after Kurt Suzuki”
And they could have him… but they would need to trade either Buchholz or Kelly.
Theo wouldn’t make that kind of move for Miguel Montero.
I don’t see them doing that.
Sox start a 9 game stretch against Baltimore and Toronto later this week after Texas. And if Texas plays like they did against us, Sox will sweep them too.
They’ll be right back in the thick of things by the middle of next week. I bet they go 7-2 during that stretch and get back to .500.
It’s not how you start, it is how you finish.
Jerkface, it wouldn’t surprise me if Phil had a big year because he’s that talented; he’s also inexperienced. The Yankees are the ones that need to tamp down their expectations if they think that, right now, he’s a #3 in a #5′s spot. Fans should, too, as he’s going to have growing pains. Hopefully in a few years Young Master Phil will have grown up to be Masterful Master Phil.
RS, after reading Phil’s quotes about what the pen did for him, I’m thrilled he was in the pen; I was wrong. He needed last year’s success; he told Marc Carig recently how down he was about 2008 and how frustrating that time was for him. I felt sorry for him that he felt he had to pitch hurt so that people wouldn’t think he was making excuses.
Skip Bayless is a horse’s you know what; he’s awful. His brother is a great chef, but could probably write about sports better than Skip.
Yeah, the Yankees had nothing to do with how the Rangers looked over the weekend.
The Sox are just playing badly now, period. They are not inept against the Rays, but the Rays happened to come in at the right time.
I cant stand Skip Bayless.
He is pathetic.
He CLAIMS to like other teams, but all he does is lick and clean every Boston team (sans the Bruins because the Bruins have no fans).
He picked against the Yankees all year (which is fine by me), but then in the World Series, he said “I think the Phillies will win, but Im going to pick the Yankees). Why did he do that? Because he thought it might be good luck to do so, that we might lose.
excuse me if this is at all repetative
Mets called up the son of Yankee Record holder Ron Davis:
“Davis still holds the New York Yankee team record for most consecutive strikeouts in a single game (8). This accomplishment also gives him the team record for most strikeouts by a relief pitcher in a single game.”
Good luck in Flushing!
Jerkface April 19th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
? was 1/2
Carl Crawford on 1st with one out and up by 6 in the 9th-
Does he run?
Kurt Suzuki would be a great pickup for the Red Sox, a great catcher who bats righty, perfect for Fenway, and he is a pesky enough hitter to not kill them on the road.
That would make sense from the Red Sox perspective, except that they can’t trade buchholz or someone because wakefield,daisuke,beckett,and lackey are all injury risks/retirey risks and they don’t have anyone behind Buchholz ready to step in.
The Red Sox have had ample time to find a transition catcher or short stop and they messed up.
SJ44 or CB or anyone else,
what do you think about Jose Iglesias?
he is the next guy who is a sure-fire star at SS.
how much of this is hype and how legit is this guy?
“for some reason, no one will talk to me today here on cape cod.”
Randy-
It’s only because you could still throw out a runner or two at second base!
On the cape, they know that you have a better pop time than Martinez and more arm strength than Varitek!
Uncle Ellsworth
In response to your question to me last night. Yes I’ve seen that logging show and it is good.
The Red Sox are not getting gifted Suzuki, or Jeff Mathis. Or anybody. Not this year. Everyone in baseball knows their glaring needs, and can and will hold them hostage for everything they can get.
The Sox are not giving up ‘the farm’ for Suzuki or Mathis.
If the O’s and Jays can take 3 of the next 9 against Boston, I’ll be thrilled. Can’t reasonably expect more than that. Is Toronto at home? If so, maybe they can take 2\3. Orioles are 2-11, Boston is going to mash them.J
trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 19th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
I wouldn’t think they would. Patrick suggested Suzuki would fit well in Beantown & I agreed. But I suggested Benjie Molina because I thought RSox had a chance to get him.
Bayless has been calling LeBron James out all year. I can’t wait for little Skippy to go face to face with him this year. I’m sure LeBron will handle it with class, but it will be funny.
“I think big poppy gets released or sits on the bench all year.”
When is the last time Vesuvius erupted? Can you picture Floppy’s reaction to being a bench player? The beantown press would have a blast asking him his feelings about that! It would probably be the only articles you ever saw with nothing but expletives in it.
“I?m sure toronto likes the production they are getting from Wells right now, but he has an insane contract. $19M+/yr over next several years. I?d bet they?d trade that in a heartbeat to anyone that would accept that contract”
The reason I don’t think you’d see them do that with the kind of season he’s having is because they just got rid of Ricciardi and I think they want to show some kind of confidence in the future of the team. They’re fighting for fans as it is. If they were to get rid of their best offensive (and defensive) player, it might send out a very bad signal and one from which they might not recover. JMO
It’s amazing how Buster Olney throws out a wild Kurt Suzuki suggestion, apparently based 100% on his opinion alone, and it’s snowballed in some places as a legit possibility.
Olney had dozens of supposed rumors at the trade deadline last year and I’m not sure that any of them came to fruition.
He is going to become the least reliable reporter with regard to trade rumors in the business at this pace.
“The Yankees are the ones that need to tamp down their expectations if they think that, right now, he’s a #3 in a #5’s spot. Fans should, too, as he’s going to have growing pains. ”
Betsy, I know you take a lot of grief, but you’re like on a one-person mission to temper expectations on Phil Hughes so there is no backlash later if he struggles.
Phil Hughes is no rookie. He’s a full-fledged member of the rotation and an experienced major league pitcher. Yes, I now the yankees said publicly he’s not “fully-formed” but that doesn’t mean he’s not expecting to be good.
Let people expect the sort of performance his talent-level warrants.
Maine
oh ok thanks for the response.
shows a totally different side of the US than I am used to seeing even though I know it is out there. Crazy accents too.
Billy Beane loves trading away his good players. I can see him giving away Suzuki to Boston
““for some reason, no one will talk to me today here on cape cod.””
————
randy,
they won’t talk to me either… and when I hear them talking to each other, I have to really bite my tongue to remain a respectful Yanks fan
They have glaring needs beyond catcher. They’ll have to live with martinez for now. Varitek can provide some services, too (I think all the extra rest is actually helping him, lol).
I don’t think they’ll trade for Suzuki. They’ve got their eye on one prize and he’s in SoCal, no NoCal.
I tried to start a David Ortiz / JD Drew drinking game with some friends but that didn’t go over well.
the double plays would really have gotten us messed up quickly though. prob not a good idea.
Ray VT, seriously I think they’re pretty much screwed. I think they’ve dug themselves into one heck of a hole. It’s going to be interesting to see what they end up doing with Ortiz, if anything.
Mcallister wasn’t sharp in the bottom of the third. he gave up a single but was behind on everyone. Threw a lot of pitches. 46 pitches, 12 balls. Got away with a pitch on a long fly to right into a 9 MPH wind.
Ray,
The Rays were close to last in attendance, even in 2008, and following a WS berth thay only gained an extra 700 fans per game in 09. They would need a huge swell in attendance.
Sox also got V-Mart for Masterson (basically, a ROOGY reliever) and Hagadone.
So I don’t think it is out of the realm of possibility that some GM gifts Theo with a good player for very little.
what are the odds that Ortiz is taking or about to take every known “supplement” that can’t be tested for by MLB right now?
“The Red Sox are not getting gifted Suzuki, or Jeff Mathis. Or anybody. Not this year. Everyone in baseball knows their glaring needs, and can and will hold them hostage for everything they can get.”
Until ESPN, the Umpires Union, the Baseball Writers Association and the League Office get together and put the screws on other teams and make them trade their best players to the Sox for pennies on the dollar you mean.
Uncle Ellsworth April 19th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Maine
oh ok thanks for the response.
shows a totally different side of the US than I am used to seeing even though I know it is out there. Crazy accents too.
———————————————————————-
Their near the Canadian border so I think there is a bit of French accent mixed in with northern Maine. It’s even quite different up there than in southern part. Mostly woods.
4-9
YIKES!!!!
A caller on WFAN: “The Mets need Jesus in their life.” (Does he hit for power?)
19 minutes ago
4 game sweep. The early bird special of the Boston Massacre?
Ian,
Hagadone is a legit prospect at least – top 50 in MLB on some lists (ranked in the same neighborhood (again on some lists) as Mike Leake, Phillipe Aumont, and guys like that.
BD, Oakland would be crazy to trade Suzuki. They are really coming into their own with a batch of really good young starters. There would be no good reason to let him go!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
To steal U2, A BEAUTIFUL DAY!!! On the made up and joke Patriots Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good job Sonnanstine!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the Dodgers fall out of it, would the Sox re-acquire Manny?
Guy can still hit and hit in big spots and scare pitchers… he might also reinvigorate Ortiz. After all, Ortiz was nothing before and after Manny left, so acquiring him might have two benefits…
BD-
On Iglesias – I just don’t see how you can say that a guy who has never played stateside is the best defensive SS prospect in the entire game.
I just don’t get it. I’ve never heard anything even remotely like that. And people were saying this before it was even clear that Alcides Escobar would be the brewers starting SS rather than in AAA.
And on the whole there are a number of very talented defensive SS prospects in baseball right now. But he’s the best?
It’s just so curious. He very well may be great defensively – but it’s the level of over effusiveness that is just so recurrently puzzling.
They were describing the Scutaro signing as being a no-brainer because in two years Iglesias will definitely be ready to stop the merry go round.
They have no idea whether this kid can hit at all. There have been boat loads of super star glove prospects in the minors who don’t amount to anything because they just can’t hit.
And it’s also strange that they seem to have just kicked Jed Lowerie to the curb after all of those years of Lowerie ending the merry go round.
Part of the Iglesias perceptions, I think, became completely mixed up with this whole “run prevention” mantra that became a kind of group think. It’s as if Iglesias’ bat was completely irrelevant to the game of baseball because – like so many other red sox moves – the only thing that really matters was preventing runs.
I don’t know. I haven’t seen him play but I don’t see how he’s even close to any kind of sure thing.
Let’s see how he hits in AA.
Wells makes 12.5 million this year. With a 8.5 mil bonus payment that was paid out March 1. Not so bad.
23 mil next year, then 21 mil for each of 2012, 2013, and 2014.
And he has a full no-trade clause, though it’s not like any team would want those next 4 years.
Montero grounded out to 2nd. His homer was on a knuckle ball and smoked to left field
Now it’s time to visit the bosox thread. I want to read the hysteria! This couldn’t happen to a more deserving team
The Redsox have a good system but it’s vastly overrated.
Cervelli, Pena, Mccutchen, Jackson, Kennedy, Coke, Ohlendorf, Clippard, Gardner, Robertson, Joba, Hughes & Aceves are all in the majors right now. The Redsox don’t have anywhere near these many players from their system in the majors over the past 3 years.
You think other GMs have not noticed this? The Redsox were interested in Marte, Swisher & Granderson and all 3 ended up in pinstripes.
As for Kelly, I have never seen a pitcher with a 87-91 mph fastball get this much hype in my entire life. The guy is all projection, how he is rated so much higher than Banuelos who is left handed with a 90-94 mph fastball is baffling.
Gammons in dark shades… mourning in Boston.
”
The Rays were close to last in attendance, even in 2008, and following a WS berth thay only gained an extra 700 fans per game in 09. They would need a huge swell in attendance.”
———
the sad thing, for Rays fans anyway, is that they naturally despise all the “obnoxious” Yanks and Sox fans that fill their stadium during Sox/Yanks series.
Talk about a double edged sword.
It was quite a weekend for the underdog YANKEES!!! WOOOOHOOOO!!!!
It is funny how some weaker teams play when they see a normally strong opponent as vulnerable. I would not be surprised to see the O’s sweep Boston.
The Yanks could theoretically end up having as many catchers in their system that are good enough to play in the majors as ALL position players that end up being MLB-caliber for the Sox.
oakland is trying to extend suzuki, or at least that’s what they said on bay area radio last week.
billy beene is usually very difficult to trade with, he usually ‘wins’ in the trade and will ask for a king’s ransom for kurt, who would be excellent in boston.
but trading for a catcher means that boston essentially cuts ties with ortiz and lowell ($25 million) and make v-mart a full time dh, which costs him money in the long term. that’s an unhappy clubhouse. it also means that they have no more ‘bullets’ at their disposal. they have to decide where to best spend their resources.
cashman has been very good at this over the past few years
Yanks 27
Good Quesiton.
Cant see the harm in them getting him for half a season. His attitude certainly wouldnt affect them in that short amount of time!
Gammons isn’t wearing dark shades of mourning… he was just visiting Iceland scouting some prospects with plus reindeer herding skills.
He’s kept the ash on the glass as a remembrance of things past.
The rays have a couple of factors troubling them:
- Their stadium is bad ( i like it, but its not a real baseball stadium)
- Their stadium’s location is bad (you have to drive through Tampa and all its horrible traffic, and then go across a 5 mile bridge to get to St Pete, traffic is terrrrible)
- Their fans are obnoxious with cowbells and horns
- Their parking situation is horrendous and public transportation doesn’t really exist in Florida
If they built a stadium outside of Tampa inbetween Tampa/Orlando it’d probably draw a lot better. Their waterfront park looked cool but I don’t know how feasible that was.
“Sox start a 9 game stretch against Baltimore and Toronto later this week after Texas. And if Texas plays like they did against us, Sox will sweep them too.
They?ll be right back in the thick of things by the middle of next week. I bet they go 7-2 during that stretch and get back to .500.
It?s not how you start, it is how you finish.”
Aardvark, please help me out here. You are a respectful poster so there would be no reason to ask you to be elsewhere. But when you use the word “us” I find it at least a little confusing. Every post you every post here deals with how good the Red Sox are. Nothing else. You only post about the Red Sox. And it’s always a post that gives some kind of caution to the Yankees because the Red Sox are not out of it. I have never seen you post a single thing about the Yankees, if not in respect to the Red Sox. And it is ALWAYS a post that manages to elevate the Red Sox and sends up some kind of caution flag to the Yankees.
If you are not a Sux fan, I will eat my Yankee cap.
There are several Sux fans on this forum who are extremely polite. You are extremely polite. You don’t have to hide behind a pretend Yankee fan status. It’s almost embarrassing to see you pretend to be a Yankee fan. I’ve seen Yankee posters fawn all over the Sux but they at least manage to talk about the strength of the Yankees at some point. You never do. You only talk about the Sux.
Verrry strange indeed.
And another big game tonight, involving the fan-less Brooooooooooooooooooooooooons!
Let’s hope the referees tonight dont take into account what happened at Fenway Field today, on the faux holiday Patriots Day, and cheat the other team.
“It is funny how some weaker teams play when they see a normally strong opponent as vulnerable. I would not be surprised to see the O?s sweep Boston.”
Time to listen to the Big Show!!!
new thread
“As for Kelly, I have never seen a pitcher with a 87-91 mph fastball get this much hype in my entire life. ”
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They claim he has great command and downward movement on his pitches, which sounds good.
The fact that he is an A-ball pitcher, just entering AA… should have probably kept him from being even close to as high as #25 or so on some prospect lists.
There are just so many things that remain to be seen or that could happen before as pitcher gets to AA or AAA, I would think it’s very difficult to consider them as “sure-thing” as so many do with Kelly.
If he looks good and dominates AA and AAA, different story.
Montero had a base stolen but the runner had 4 steps before McAllister ever threw the ball. He made a bad play on a foul pop back to the screen but, overran the ball when it drifted back towards the plate.
McAllister is still falling behind and getting a lot of fly outs.
4 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs, 0 walks, 2 strikeouts. 61 pitches, 42 strikes, 19 balls, 3 grounders, 7 fly outs
Hey CR-9 I’m going to disagree with you on “made up” in re: Patriots Day. It’s a pretty cool holiday and gets people to think about an important time in their nation’s history. Beats the hell out of earth day.
“It’s only because you could still throw out a runner or two at second base!”
cb-
actually what i’d do at this point is use my quick release and have the pitcher cut it off and relay it to second.
the ball would still beat varitek’s and martinez’s throw.
Boston will not be able to rid themselves of the $12.5 due each of Ortiz and Lowell this year which puts them in a quagmire. They can’t continue to think they can ride on the backs of Pedroia and Youkilis with little help elsewhere particularly from the farm system.
They’ll be forced to trade any upper echelon prospects because the free agent class of next year offers nothing of significance after Crawford and Werth are signed elsewhere. They’ve signed all the high money starters they’ll sign for awhile so Cliff Lee is out of the question in Boston.
Papelbon will make nearly $10M in his final year of arbitration this winter unless they deal him and pin their hopes on Bard as their closer. They have no choice but to sign Victor Martinez.
No thank you, Brian Cashman is a universe ahead of Theo Epstein.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.c.....-2011.html
“shows a totally different side of the US than I am used to seeing even though I know it is out there. Crazy accents too.”
uncle ellsworth-
if you go to ellsworth , maine you’ll hear a downeast accent that is what you’re talking about.
here it is presented with some humor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
it’s not french canadian though.
my grandfather lived in jonesport , maine, north of bar harbor and he was a downeast as it got. he was all scotch heritage.
without looking it up i think it’s an accent from a long time ago on from a sea faring time with scottish roots( maybe irish too)
I’m getting tired of Johnsons act, does he ever ever hit a ball hard.