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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees pregame; White Sox lineup change

Posted by: Brian Heyman - Posted in Misc on Apr 30, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Brian Heyman here at Yankee Stadium for Chad, just up from some of our pregame access. Jorge Posada said he could have gone tonight, but Francisco Cervelli will start behind the plate instead. Posada’s knee still was clearly swollen. Joe Girardi said he thinks Posada will be able to start tomorrow or Sunday, and that he might be available off the bench tonight. “He is better,” Girardi said.

Girardi also addressed tomorrow’s start for the struggling Javy Vazquez and the potential for fan dissatisfaction if things go south again. “He’s a aware of what could happen tomorrow,” Girardi said. The manager also said that it’s “possible he’s trying too hard.” But Girardi isn’t thinking about alternatives yet in case Vazquez continues down this path.

Girardi said Nick Johnson, who’s back in the lineup, may be taking too many pitches at times, that Mark Teixeira may be starting to come around and that A-Rod has basically been hitting in hard luck.

Here’s the White Sox lineup:

1. Alexei Ramirez SS

2. Gordon Beckham 2B

3. Andruw Jones RF

4. Paul Konerko 1B

5. Alex Rios CF

6. Carlos Quentin DH

7. Mark Teahen 3B

8. Donny Lucy C

9. Juan Pierre LF

RHP Freddy Garcia

Update, 6:28: New lineup for the White Sox. Jones has been scratched with back spasms.

1. Ramirez

2. Beckham

3. Rios

4. Konerko

5. Quentin

6. Teahen

7. Jayson Nix

8. Lucy

9. Pierre

Comments

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406 Responses to “Yankees pregame; White Sox lineup change”

  1. Nick in SF April 30th, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Did Girardi say anything about the premier football game in December????

  2. Doreen - GTLU Standings, Updates, Calendar & Rules April 30th, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    How awful is it that as part of his preparation, Vazquez and the manager and the coaches have to factor in the “fan” element?

  3. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Dave F April 30th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
    If winn isn’t used when he has a history of .385 againt the pitcher, when will he be used?
    *******

    Excellent question.

    That .385 was the whole basis of my guessing Winn. I had all of the other details right. I know Girardi likes to play his match ups!!!

  4. tex's friend April 30th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    I like Cano… but how many MPV’s has he won? Pedroia already has one

    ___

    WHAT!!!!

    that was the biggest joke of an mvp award. His numbers were average at best. No way did he deserve that. I’d even argue he wasnt the best player on his own team that year (Youkilis).

    .326 17HR 86 RBI and a .376 OBP. Yeah no one has ever done that. Give me a break!

  5. Erin April 30th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    That’s good that Posasda’s a little better.

    I’m rooting for Javy tomorrow.

  6. tex's friend April 30th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Winn has good # however with lefties tomorrow and sunday, granderson and gardner will likely each get one day off. Winn will play.

  7. MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Nick in SF April 30th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
    Did Girardi say anything about the premier football game in December????

    ———————————————————————————–

    I think he’s going to address that after the game.

  8. Jim April 30th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    vs. Danks

    Granderson – 1-19 (.053), 3 Ks
    Thames – 1-1, double, (.071) 7 Ks
    Winn – 0-3

    vs. Burhlee

    Granderson – 5-23 (.217), 4 doubles, HR, 2 walks, 5 Ks
    Thames – 5-27 (185), 1 triple, 1 HR, 2 walks, 8 Ks
    Winn – 6-30 (.200), 1 HR, 1 doublm 5 Ks

    Ironically, both Thames and Winn have great numbers vs. Garcia. Thames is hitting .333 with a HR, Winn is hitting .385 with 2 HRs.

  9. CRAWDADDY (Boycott ESPN-NY) April 30th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    I figured that Posada wouldn’t be used tonight with a day game tomorrow.

  10. Nick in SF April 30th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    Pedroia also won the Hobbitown Hometown Hero Award and the MVP of the Shire Classic — how about that, Cano fans????

  11. MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    Erica

    I think Doreen called you unique. :lol:

  12. O*Line April 30th, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    Most of our hitters have pretty awful numbers vs. Garcia lifetime

    (Cano – .111, Jeter – .226, Posada – .176, Tex and Swish are hitless in 11 and 6 ABs respectively, etc.)

    But that was when Garcia was in his prime when he was a very good pitcher. He doesn’t have that same stuff anymore.

  13. tex's friend April 30th, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    Posada will sit for as long as he needs to to heal his knee.

    He is available to PH and even play, but cervelli has been fine behind the plate and hitting so they will use that chance to help posada fully heal.

  14. Jim April 30th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Correction – \

    Thames is 1-14 vs. Danks, not 1-1.

  15. Yankee Trader April 30th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Interesting article on the greatest Yankee of all time.

    BTW- Joe Gorden was ranked ahead of Rizzuto, but alas I didn’t get to see him play!!!!

    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....27062.html

  16. CRAWDADDY (Boycott ESPN-NY) April 30th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    It’s the WSJ, not a publication I need to read when it comes to baseball.

  17. Hoffa April 30th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Anyone who would take Pedroia over Cano has clearly not watch Cano play every game for the past 5 years.

  18. NYY626 - Go Andy! April 30th, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    poor Javy :(

    But we’ll worry about him tomorrow. Tonight I want Andy to preserve his pristine ERA!

  19. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    Doreen, isn’t it sad, though? He’s going to just have to tough it out, but I do think it’s a real shame. For his sake, I hope he has a good game. I also don’t want to hear from the other manager if he doesn’t; let him concentrate on his own team.

    That’s good news about Jorge.

  20. Erin April 30th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    I just flipped my NYY calendar at work, and tomorrow officially starts Alex Rodriguez month. :)

  21. CB April 30th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    “How awful is it that as part of his preparation, Vazquez and the manager and the coaches have to factor in the “fan” element?”

    It’s really sad. And as a Yankee’s fan if Saturday’s game is laced with booing, it would be very embarrassing.

    And it’s completely unneccessary. He hasn’t even thrown 5 games.

    But there appears to be a group of yankee fans who basically have an irrational dislike for Vazquez and they may be ready to pounce.

    Some may even enjoy watching him fail as a way of extracting their schadenfreude revenge on someone for 2004. There seems to be this mounting snowball that’s building to bury Vazquez before he’s even thrown 5 games this season.

  22. tex's friend April 30th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    just flipped my NYY calendar at work, and tomorrow officially starts Alex Rodriguez month

    __

    hopefully this means his hits and homeruns go up..

  23. Matt April 30th, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Doesn’t help that we are facing the White Sox’s best pitcher… a lefty with that kind of stuff in the stadium with our hitters struggling. Even if Javy pitches decently (like he did vs. the Angels at home), he might still get booed because we couldn’t score a lot off Danks.

  24. Doreen - GTLU Standings, Updates, Calendar & Rules April 30th, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    CB -

    That’s what I feel too – like it’s out of control somehow. And no matter how I feel it’s not enough to stop it.

  25. tex's friend April 30th, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    i dont even know that i could boo vazquez now. i feel bad for him and for us too. he is probably so nervous going out there it will be almost impossible to 100% concentrate.

    The white sox can hit homeruns. javy gives up homeruns, even on good days. enter yankee stadium. i dont feel good for what javy will have to go through tomorrow.

  26. Jerkface April 30th, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Danks 2 hit the rays, he will be tough, but the yankees have hit him very well historically. 6 ERA and a .290 .364 .536 .900 line against

  27. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    CB, I really think that’s the case. Javy is the villain – there is a definite dislike for him. The response to the trade was immediate and unswervingly negative and, as a result, I knew this was going to happen. Frankly, his performance as affects the team is almost becoming secondary to me; I feel for him as a human being. He wanted to come back here, in fact he never wanted to leave. Javy was so excited to return and his teammates welcomed him back. How must he be feeling now? I’m sick to my stomach; to be honest, if he continues to struggle, I might almost wish for him to be traded so he would’t have to go through this. I think Curt Schilling is reprehensible for piling on this guy.

  28. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
    Erica

    I think Doreen called you unique.
    **************

    She wouldn’t be the first.

    Although, “unique” is one of the kinder adjectives I hear about myself

  29. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    I’ll repeat: if Javy struggles, I don’t want that psycho in the other dugout to say a word.

  30. Dave F April 30th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    I know to be careful of a small sample size, but how long should we wait to see if Winn strarts to hit? I don’t mean this as critism, but as a question? It is the 25th man on the roster and I am wondering if anyone on the farm may be ready to come up?

  31. Wave Your Hat April 30th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    The White Sox are hitting home runs, but offensively they aren’t doing much else.

    Javy is a fly ball and strikeout pitcher, I’m thinking he may give up a couple of solo shots but on the whole I think he’s got a real chance to pitch a good game and get the fans on his side.

  32. MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Erica

    You need to have a coach to help you get out of your GTLU slump. I suggest Nick in S.F.

  33. tex's friend April 30th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    i agree that javy can have a great game. he needs to have confidence and pitch like it. who better to motivate you than your loudmouth former manager.

  34. SJ44 April 30th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    We have a segment of Yankee fans that are just morons. No other way to say it.

    They booed Arod for 5 years and made it a cottage industry.

    Now, they have the “2004 villain” (at least in their own moronic minds) in Javy.

    However, Javy has to work through it.

    Its not about the fans. If I was Javy Vazquez, I wouldn’t care about the fans one bit.

    Just go out and pitch your game. If they boo, they boo. Ignore them.

    Pitch well for yourself and your teammates. The fans don’t matter.

    And before the boo brigade comes on here to say its their “right” and “We (the fans) pay the players salaries, we can do whatever we want”, save it.

    1. You have the right to boo. Doesn’t make it the smart thing to do.
    2. You don’t pay the players salaries. Television, ballpark and sponsorship revenue pays those salaries. Ticket sales are more the dessert rather than the main course.

  35. Warning Track Power April 30th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    SJ44 makes a lot of sense:

    “is there nothing without all this complaining”

    Think about those words for a minute.

  36. champ809 April 30th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    champ809 April 30th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
    the Scooter Rizzuto was a SS not 2B…..Billy Martin was a 2B, Tony Lazzeri and Bobby Richardson were also 2B….I guess Joe Gordon would be considered the best Yankee 2B…way before my time but….

    When it’s all said and done Cano on his current career arc will be considered the best Yankee 2B off all time.

  37. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
    Erica

    You need to have a coach to help you get out of your GTLU slump. I suggest Nick in S.F.
    ************

    We can re-address this later when/if Nick is around to weigh in on my GTLU slump

  38. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    SJ, that’s what Francesca said basically. He said that Javy just has to go out there and forget the fans, that he could get booed early in the game and cheered later. Well, he has no choice as long as he’s on the team. I feel like if his mechanics are ok, that he will be fine no matter what the fans do because he’s a good pitcher. I still think it’s sad, though, and I think Schilling is a worm.

  39. Gil L April 30th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    on booing…

    i firmly believe that not only is it the right of fans to boo, it’s also condusive to players’ performance!
    by booing a player you set a certain standard, you make it clear what’s unacceptable on your team. i truly believe that booing made a-rod a better player, forced to look seriously at his career and attitude, and recommit to baseball (his words). fans who never boo a player are enablers of mediocrity, they allow players to get away with less than their best.

    i would never boo: an error, a strike out, failure to bring a run from 3rd, a pitcher giving up a homer etc… all of these are part of the game.

    however, i would boo: lack of effort, cowardness, softness, lack of professionalism etc…

    fans have every right to boo. it doesn’t make them bad fans, they always root passionately for their team, but there are some behaviors they will not accept.

    that’s why javy is in a very justified danger of getting booed.

  40. CB April 30th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    The White Sox have played very bad baseball this year. The offense is terrible. The team continues it’s perpetual disarray.

    In many ways they are a very good opponent for Javy to have a chance to face.

    But the key word there is chance.

    And I think there are people who aren’t interested in giving him a chance. He’s already been booed at the stadium this year.

    And that was before the endless parade of Sherman columns, Schilling, etc.

    The irony of it is that the yankees really need Vazquez to work through whatever issues he might be having.

    The Rays are a terrific team with a 5 deep staff. If Vazquez gets snowballed by NY fans and the situation becomes untenable the yankees are going to be in a fix. Edge there goes to the Rays.

  41. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Speaking of Scooter, there’s a new biography of him coming out soon; the author (forgot his name) was on with Mark Malusis last night. I don’t remember why, but Scooter’s family would not cooperate with him. It sounds like it’s going to be a terrific book. LOL Bill White apparently told the author that when they first started working together (in the 60s? I didn’t know that), the team was so bad that they talked about anything but the game and got into bad habits that continued into their heyday. I thought that was funny – and frankly, their “bad” habits were wonderful. Scooter and White were an incredible team.

  42. Judge Smails April 30th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    So what has Javy done to deserve getting booed? He’s put in effort, he hasn’t been a coward, and he hasn’t lacked professionalism. He’s just lacked good results. Fans are going to boo him every time he walks someone or gives up a hit. That’s NOT justified, nor should fans feel have the right to.

    It’s not conducive to a players performance. Why boo something you want to improve?

  43. Matt April 30th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Guillen challenges Vazquez tonight. You know the NY media is probably in his dugout right now asking him Javy questions.

    Ozzie probably will echo Schilling’s comments.

  44. m April 30th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Go, Hawi. (little town on the north shore of the Big Island, birthplace of the great Kamehameha)

    And Javy, too.

  45. Judge Smails April 30th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    *feel they have the right to

  46. SabathiaWouldBeGoodAtTheEighthToo April 30th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    I feel like I have seen a web gem go against A-Rod every night this week.

  47. Nick in SF April 30th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    I’m not sure if it would be ethical for me to help any individual with their lineup guesses…

    I am on the way out the door for the duration of the day, but I want to add one thing: it would be very nice for the Yankees to pound Freddy Garcia this evening.

    If I’m not mistaken, King Felix took a lower offer from Seattle to play with his idol, Freddy. How sick is that?!?!?!??!?!

    Time to repay the favor — again! :twisted:

    Enjoy that game.

  48. Jim Mason April 30th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    Booing a player is up to the fan but when it comes to Vazquez, it is just proves that Yankee fans are spoiled and have no real problems, so they have targeted him. Even if Vazquez wins 3 games this year the Yankees will still be in the playoffs. Yankees have 3 great starters out of 5, with Hughes possible a 4th by the end of the year. Most teams have one at most, maybe two.

    It really does get annoying. this would be like booing a punter or a nickel cornerback on a super bowl champion. sad, clueless, etc.

  49. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 30th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Hey all. Fran and I have our little baseball superstitions that we keep between us but because we think Javy needs all the help he can get, we are happy to share what we are doing for tomorrow’s game in the event that anyone else would like to join in. We are buying food from Puerto Rican restaurants and having it for lunch, or as we are watching the game tomorrow. I located the only Puerto Rican restaurant I could find in the state and went there today and bought food for tomorrow. I bought rice and beans and roast pork. It isn’t necessarily the kind of place that I would take company, but I’m sure the food is fine. Besides, this is the Yankees were talking about.

    If anyone else has access to a Puerto Rican restaurant and would like to join in our little party just as it concerns Javy, we welcome you to do so.

  50. I Like Inge April 30th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    I don’t boo. I would feel stupid jeering men that if I did that in front of their faces would kick my ass. It’s easy to jeer and curse at these guys when you are in the stands. As long as they try hard to execute and perform well, its all good.

  51. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    I don’t even want to think about that; I don’t know what the Yankees would do about Vasquez. Right now, the problem seems to be mechanical (though he said after the Angel game that he didn’t think it was)……unless he’s hurt. If he gets that taken care of, we know he’s a good pitcher. The question then becomes can he pitch under the scrutiny of the NY fans. This isn’t just normal skepticism from NY fans where they supposedly want to cheer you; this is downright hatred. If he’s healthy and Javy can’t deal with the booing, do you trade him? Regardless, Phil’s progress then becomes of the greatest import; he would not be allowed to have the growing pains that the Yanks thought they could afford to live through.

  52. SJ44 April 30th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Ballplayers laugh at the notion booing “motivates them”. They really do.

    Fans don’t set team standards. Organizations and managers set team standards.

    Fans give themselves more “power” than they actually possess.

    Most players today, despite public pleas to the contrary, hate a great number of fans because they act like jerks when they encounter players.

    You should be in the hotel lobby at places where the Yankees stay.

    Despite signs stating, “No autographs”, you have people lined up with books demanding players sign a bunch of cards/photos. If they don’t, I’ve seen some get so belligerent toward a player, security has to be called.

    Fans have passion. They don’t have power. Its two entirely different things.

  53. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Ethics, schmethics

    Anyway- I am off to the gym for a while. Should be back by game time!

  54. Eric April 30th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    A-Rod went through much worse than Javy did at the stadium. Heck, his own manager and teammate contributed to an article about how screwed up he is.

    A-Rod came through it. The tough will get past it. If Javy doesn’t, then it is his own fault. The fans have booed much better players more viciously than they booed Vazquez.

  55. Gil L April 30th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    Judge Smails ,

    i would dare guess that the biggest problem fans have with javy is his attitude, not his results. andy p. has always pitched to the tune of a 4+ ERA, and had his share of clunkers, but always received respect as a fighter and a grinder.

    javy looks like he doesn’t want to be on the mound. tell me this, would you say the he is a grinder? there’s a certain character that mirrors that of the city which we want to see in a player – tough, committed, no-excuses, results-oriented.

    i would love for javy to show some of that.

  56. m April 30th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    I know that Javy is better than he’s shown us this season. And lots of pitchers get off to slow starts.

    I think he’ll come around. Nice to know that the manager has more patience than the average fan.

  57. MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    So players have standards the fans think they should meet but the fans can act any way they want. Makes sense to me. Not!

  58. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Fans are jealous of the $$ players make; they believe that because they pay to see the players, they are paying their salary. Because of this, they think players owe it to them to be available on a 24 hour basis. I don’t blame players for being fed up.

  59. upstate kate April 30th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    No doubt Javy hasn’t been pitching as well as he and all of us would like. However, Javy’s games have not been blow outs. With better hitting, or better relief pitching, those games could have been won.
    IMO, fans should cheer players on, not boo them. I don’t see how booing makes a bad situation any better.

  60. Yanks 18 April 30th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    The guy is getting booed… let’s not act like he is having personal insults shouted at him or receiving death threats.

    If he can’t handle a little booing (and if you were at the stadium against the Angels, you would know that he received a smattering of boos… we’ve heard much worse than what he received that day), then he wasn’t cut out to pitch here anyway.

    Hawkins got MUCH worse treatment than Vazquez did for an even stupider reason – he got booed for HONORING one of the best players ever and got “O’Neil” chants every game. So did A-Rod in 2006. Vazquez hardly has to deal with some crisis here. He should know that he is going to get booed until he performs. If his psyche can’t handle some booing then frankly, it doesn
    t speak well of him and proves Schilling, Guillen, etc. right about him.

  61. CB April 30th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    “javy looks like he doesn’t want to be on the mound. tell me this, would you say the he is a grinder? ”

    It’s remarkable how some fans have this crystal ball and can inuit “looks like” to be the same thing as the truth.

    What a privilege to be able to lead one’s life in this precious way.

    Everything you see and interpret about another human being is their true person and state of being.

    You completely understand the “attitude” of someone you see on television or from the stands of a 50,000 seat stadium.

    For years Yankee fans said similar things about Cano. He was “lazy.” He obviously wasn’t a “grinder.” He had a bad “attitude.”

    I wonder how many would own up to that now?

    But why own up to anything when all you need to do is open your eyes in order to realize the shining truth?

  62. upstate kate April 30th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    I also think that fans and the media over analyze comments players make, especially post-game comments. For example, IPK and Joba have been heavily criticized for not “taking responsibility” for losses, when to me, they were just young guys trying to put a positive spin on a bad outing. Not everyone handles the media as well as Jeter does.

  63. m April 30th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    6 games is a really small sample size, but here it is:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=5151275

  64. Judge Smails April 30th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    How can you make any judgments? He’s had 4 starts. Apparently you don’t know the make up of the common Yankee fan. PEOPLE ARE STILL BOOING OVER 2004. Why? You’ve got me there. But, for some reason, the media started bringing up 2004 and many Yankee fans started talking about 2004, and for some reason people in the stadium are hung up on one pitch in 2004.

    But why boo him?

    You give the fans at the stadium too much credit. These are the same people that boo’d Jeter and Mariano Rivera, as well as Alex Rodriguez. Oh, and Mark Teixeira.

  65. m April 30th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    Not everyone was booing Javy. I heard lots of cheering at ‘The Big A’. :P

  66. THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    I am personally against booing my own players, and think it is really corny. I was at a game back in ’05 where Rivera got boo’d and it was just embarrassing.

    However, I totally understand why some fans want to boo Vazquez- living through ’04 was one of the worst experiences of my life. Vazquez pitched like an absolutely dog the last half of 04 and then pitched awful in the playoffs.

    Then there is this general perception that he is not a gamer, and is a “weak minded” player. His own manager, Ozzie Guilien, even called him out on being a weak minded player. You factor in that people are worried how he will react to getting boo’d, and it just seems like he is playing right into the general perception that is, in fact, weak minded. For instance,
    when Rivera got boo’d, there was not even a QUESTION of whether it would affect him,because people knew how mentally strong it was. Thus, the fact this is even an issue really makes Vazquez look bad. And lets face it, weak minded people, let alone weak minded baseball players, will not make it in New York, let alone be accepted by sports fans.

    I think Vazquez will turn around, and would not personally boo him, but do I understand why people do? Yes, 100%.

  67. Judge Smails April 30th, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    And Mark is considered a hard-nosed player.

  68. Warning Track Power April 30th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    LET’S GO YANKEES
    LET’S GO YANKEES
    LET’S GO YANKEES

  69. THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    People still bring up 2004 because it was a collapse of historic proportions. Not to mention the fact that we had DOMINATED our rivals in the playoffs for the past 87 years. Its a sad part in Yankee history that the organization has moved past, but it unfortunately rear its ugly head in certain contexts for the foreseeable future.

  70. stuckey April 30th, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    The whole booing this is SO blown out of proportion.

    Booing isn’t affecting Javier Vazquez’s performance, nor is playing in NY. There are pitchers all around baseball who are pitching badly, and isn’t because of the fans, and it isn’t because of the city they are in.

    Vazquez is or isn’t going to pitch well because of his stuff. Period.

  71. gyhu April 30th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    What I really want to know is when will the red sox start playing the good teams instead of keeping afloat by beating up mediocrity.

  72. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 30th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    For “any port in a storm” fans like me, 2004 should be totally blocked out of your minds now that you know that the offense (Manny and Ortiz, to name twomajors parts) were on steroids.

    Actually I was over 2004 in 2004 since the Yankees rotation was hurt all season and the Suxers were playing with a rotation that didn’t go down once. And then there was Kevin Brown breaking his hand in September. Hell with those odds, it’s amazing Yankees won any games at all!

  73. upstate kate April 30th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    I don’t think Javy’s pitching will be affected by booing, I just don’t like it.

    gyhu
    the red sox face the Yankees again

  74. MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    In regards to 2004, I didn’t realize Javy lost 4 games in a row.

  75. Jones April 30th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    I’ll admit it – I booed Vazquez that day against the Angels and if he doesn’t do well, I will boo him again tomorrow.

    When anyone recollects 2004, we invoke his image of the grand slam. Javy Vazquez ended the curse. He was on the mound for the darkest day in franchise history. It was his job to get out of that jam and he effectively ended the game, and the curse, by surrendering the grand slam.

    On top of being the key staple in the 04 collapse, he also has not gotten it done this year. When he starts to pitch better, I will stop booing him and most fans will because we are Yankee fans and want to win. But until he erases the 2004 memories, that will be what the fans think about when they see him. He has a lot to prove to the fans and he can do it by pitching like he has his entire career. He didn’t think he could just walk in and no one will remember that dark day, did he? He has to EARN the fan’s trust back by pitching well.

    As long as he pitches poorly, he is going to be booed. Pitch well, he will get cheered.

  76. stuckey April 30th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    However, I totally understand why some fans want to boo Vazquez- living through ‘04 was one of the worst experiences of my life. Vazquez pitched like an absolutely dog the last half of 04 and then pitched awful in the playoffs.

    I think Vazquez will turn around, and would not personally boo him, but do I understand why people do? Yes, 100%.”

    You understand it 100%, then explain it to me…

    Yankees went into the 2004 postseason with the league’s best record, and holding homefield throughout.

    He didn’t pitch in a postseason game they lost until game 7, and he was neither the reason why the Yankees LET a 3-0 lead get to the game 7 (he didn’t pitch in games 4, 5 or 6) and he wasn’t the reason they lost game 7.

    So please explain to me what you “understand 100%”?

    You mean you understand 100% he’s been made an unfair scapegoat and think that’s fair?

    You sure you want to stand behind that sentiment?

  77. Judge Smails April 30th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    And that makes you a typical Yankee fan. The one that’s hated by the rest of the baseball world. You show zero support.

  78. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    Oh please – Javy blew the 3 prior games? I didn’t even read your entire post – what a joke.

  79. Judge Smails April 30th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    Stuckey that was not meant for you. Poor timing on clicking submit.

  80. SJ44 April 30th, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    You gotta love the children on this subject.

    Javy Vazquez didn’t break the curse. The ENTIRE Yankee team collapsed. What about the other 24 guys? They played no role in the collapse?

    Get over it. It was 6 years ago.

    If you want to be a moron Yankee fan and boo the guy, be my guest.

    You aren’t going to get cheered here about booing him, that’s for sure.

  81. stuckey April 30th, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    “I booed Vazquez that day against the Angels and if he doesn’t do well, I will boo him again tomorrow.”

    To what end?

  82. CB April 30th, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    “When anyone recollects 2004, we invoke his image of the grand slam.”

    The memory I recollect most is Mo standing out on the mound in Fenway and Tony Clark’s ball bouncing into the stands.

    Tony Clark is no longer here.

    So I guess I’ll boo Mo next time out.

  83. upstate kate April 30th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    blaming Javy for 04 is no different than sox fans blaming buckner for his error…I would like to think Yankee fans are classier than sox fans

  84. THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    “He didn’t pitch in a postseason game they lost until game 7, and he was neither the reason why the Yankees LET a 3-0 lead get to the game 7 (he didn’t pitch in games 4, 5 or 6) and he wasn’t the reason they lost game 7″

    Stuckey- YOU ARE WRONG! he pitched against the Twins and he pitched in game 3!!! and that whole post season, a big question mark was will Vazquez turn it around??? and he answered with a resounding NO!

    Why you talk when you don’t know what you are talking about????

  85. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    GET OVER IT, holy cow. It’s just the WS, it’s not “real life”. Big deal – the Sox came back and they won. The fact that you are still stuck on this is sad. There were many other players to blame for that series, but for some reason Javy is the scapegoat? I don’t even think anyone should be blamed – what’s past is past. Some fans seriously need therapy to deal with their obsession with 2004.

  86. Judge Smails April 30th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    “He didn’t pitch in a postseason game they lost until game 7, and he was neither the reason why the Yankees LET a 3-0 lead get to the game 7 (he didn’t pitch in games 4, 5 or 6) and he wasn’t the reason they lost game 7?

    Stuckey- YOU ARE WRONG! he pitched against the Twins and he pitched in game 3!!! and that whole post season, a big question mark was will Vazquez turn it around??? and he answered with a resounding NO!
    ———————————-
    The Twins didn’t play in the ALCS…..

  87. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    I don’t care about 2004. So the Red Sox won a WS, so what?

  88. Judge Smails April 30th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    You aren’t even discussing the correct series smart guy.

  89. LGY April 30th, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    Where has Pat M. been?

  90. MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    After game 3 the bats totally disappeared but it’s the pitchers fault. Sitting here shaking my head.

  91. SJ44 April 30th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    By the way, the Yankees are the Defending World Champions.

    In case those stuck in 2004 have forgotten.

  92. CB April 30th, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    “blaming Javy for 04 is no different than sox fans blaming buckner for his error…I would like to think Yankee fans are classier than sox fans”

    There are some similarities but on the whole I don’t think they are good parallels.

    Did Javy even walk the bases loaded? Did Javy lie to the manager about his back and go two innings or so as the starter in a game 7? No.

    2004 was a complete, systematic collapse by the entire organization – that’s the only way a team could possibly come back from 3-1. Everything collapses.

    And it did. It wasn’t a singular event with the series on the line like Buckner.

    And remember – Buckner’s error did not occur in game 7. It was game 6 and the sox were up 3-2.

    So if there were any moments for the yanks like the buckner moment it was the blown save when they were so close wrapping up the series.

  93. THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    Look Vazquez will turn it around, but to minimize ’04 or how terrible he was is just not being honest.

  94. stuckey April 30th, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    “here’s a certain character that mirrors that of the city which we want to see in a player – tough, committed, no-excuses, results-oriented.

    i would love for javy to show some of that.”

    So you suspect he’s “soft” so you’re going to boo him for it?

    Now how does want interpret this as saying you’re more interested in his “character” than his results on the mound.

    If you’re a Yankee fan, want to see them win, and have determined of what character Vazquez is, then shouldn’t you more astutely be conducting yourself in a way more conducive to his characters?

    That’s a rhetorical question btw, because there is no good answer to it because it’s in response to a ridiculous premise.

    The truth is the behavior is justified by the self-importance of being a fan of being a fan, rather than being a fan of a sport, and team and/or a player.

  95. Eric April 30th, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    MO DID get booed off the mound in 2005 after that blown save against the Sox in the opening series, coming off the disastrous 2004.

    So the fans let him have it too… and he is 100x more accomplished than Javy will ever be.

    If legends like MO and Rodriguez can get booed, so can a .500 pitcher like Javy Vazquez. Those guys were tough enough to not let it effect them, time for Javy to show the same thing. The booing may be unfair but hardly as bad as others have gotten booed. If he melts because of it, then it speaks very poorly of him.

  96. CB April 30th, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    “By the way, the Yankees are the Defending World Champions.”

    It’s really amazing. The yanks are just coming off one of the great years in franchise history.

    And the team is better this year than last.

    But people are still obsessing about the past and are still scared of the Red Sox.

    For years yankee fans laughed at the Sox and their fans.

    Makes you wonder what would have happened to some in the fanbase if the yankees hadn’t won for 86 years.

  97. Jim Mason April 30th, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    “blaming Javy for 04 is no different than sox fans blaming buckner for his error…I would like to think Yankee fans are classier than sox fans”

    But they are not. they are the same as any other fan. many badwagoners, a solid core of fans. no better no worse than fans of any other team.

  98. stuckey April 30th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    “Look Vazquez will turn it around, but to minimize ‘04 or how terrible he was is just not being honest.”

    Vazquez was terrible in 2004, but it’s intellectually dishonest to make him a scapegoat for the team’s collapse.

    I don’t think the fans in question understand what the latter sort of dishonesty is, however, and given your reply, this includes you.

  99. Jim Mason April 30th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    “If legends like MO and Rodriguez can get booed, so can a .500 pitcher like Javy Vazquez.”

    right, but the question is why bother? this team is gonna win 105, 110 games even with Vazquez. you’d be better off booing the grounds crew when they start dancing.

  100. CB April 30th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    “MO DID get booed off the mound in 2005 after that blown save against the Sox in the opening series, coming off the disastrous 2004.”

    And that was one of the single dumbest, most embarrassing moments in the entire history of the franchise.

    Nice justification. Pick a foundation for stupid so low that it can be used to support any form of nonsense.

    Booing Mo was horrible. Only a ridiculously spoiled set of fans could be that ungrateful.

    Oh, but I forgot, they paid for their tickets…. so then it’s “all good.”

  101. THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Betsy-

    2004 was awful because we had essentially dominated our rivals for 87 years in a row. When we were up 3-0, it seemed like our winning ways would continue. Instead, Yankee fans had to live through one of the worst collapses in sports, let alone baseball history. The loss of the years of dominance combined with the historic collapse make it a dark time in Yankee history, and for every fan that lived through it.

  102. SJ44 April 30th, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    I love fans questioning the toughness of Vazquez.

    Javy Vazquez is tougher than any of the punks who boo him or rip him on blogs.

    You don’t get to be as accomplished an athlete as he, or any of these guys are, without being tough.

    Any clown can boo. That doesn’t show toughness. That shows foolishness.

    Especially when some of you are still hung up about 2004.

  103. pat April 30th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    “living through ‘04 was one of the worst experiences of my life.”

    You have lived a very charmed life if 2004 was one of the worst things that ever happened to you.

  104. stuckey April 30th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    “Stuckey- YOU ARE WRONG! he pitched against the Twins and he pitched in game 3!!! ”

    The Truth – YOU CAN’T READ! I said he didn’t pitch in a postseason game they lost until game 7.

    “Why you talk when you don’t know what you are talking about????”

    Why can’t you understand simple written english?

  105. Jim Mason April 30th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    “look Vazquez will turn it around, but to minimize ‘04 or how terrible he was is just not being honest.”

    if winning the world series can’t wipe that away for you, how can you enjoy anything in life? why still root for the team? they won it last year, for me that erases 04, or whatever other year.

    Based on your line of thinking, a-rod should still be being booed for the slap play and juicing. but no one boos him any more.

  106. CB April 30th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    “You have lived a very charmed life if 2004 was one of the worst things that ever happened to you.”

    So true.

  107. THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    It wasn’t just Game 7 either. Going into the plays offs, a big question was will Vazquez turn it around??? And he just didn’t. It seemed like every time we turned to him he just crapped the bed. We needed a pitcher like him to step up and he didn’t.

  108. SJ44 April 30th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    He was hurt!!! The guy pitched hurt! Geez, you can’t be that dumb.

    He shouldn’t have even been pitching.

  109. Jim Mason April 30th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    “living through ‘04 was one of the worst experiences of my life.”

    wow, that’s pretty sad. might be time to move out of your mom’s basement

  110. THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    I am not hung up on 2004, but when it comes up in a conversation I will not be dishonest and minimize it.

  111. UnKnown April 30th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    I thought Quentin was not going to play tonight. Ozzie must have jumped the gun yesterday.

  112. MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    This discussion is as tedious as the catcher debate.

  113. THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    haha some of your guys comments really just reveal that your not big fans, OR just became yankees fans, seriously.

  114. CD April 30th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    after four horrible years, all of the sudden Andruw Jones is experiencing a renaissance. Gotta wonder if PEDs.

  115. SJ44 April 30th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    I wouldn’t play the fan card if I were you.

    Some of us have been Yankee fans on here longer than you have been on Earth.

    You think 2004 was bad? Try following the Horace Clarke-Jerry Kenney growing up and get back to me.

    Some of you children don’t have a clue how lucky you have had it since 1996.

  116. stuckey April 30th, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    I said: “The truth is the behavior is justified by the self-importance of being a fan of being a fan, rather than being a fan of a sport, and team and/or a player.”

    The Truth said: “haha some of your guys comments really just reveal that your not big fans, OR just became yankees fans, seriously.”

    And there you go…

  117. Laura - My Pretend Boyfriend plays for BAL April 30th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    “He shouldn’t have even been pitching.”

    Perhaps, but since the real villain of 2004 isn’t here for them to boo (that villain being Torre), they feel that Javy will do just fine as a replacement. I don’t think it’s right, but I understand it.

  118. cano he didnt April 30th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    everyone watch out, noone is a bigger yankee fan than the truth. He will catch all pretenders!

  119. MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 6:06 pm
    It wasn?t just Game 7 either. Going into the plays offs, a big question was will Vazquez turn it around??? And he just didn?t. It seemed like every time we turned to him he just crapped the bed. We needed a pitcher like him to step up and he didn?t.

    ————————————————————————————-

    Why are you giving the rest of the pitching staff a break. To blame Javy for all 4 games doesn’t speak well for your understanding of baseball. And booing a player reaffirms that.

  120. CB April 30th, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    “He was hurt!!! The guy pitched hurt!”

    Only if he was a “grinder” though, that’s the problem. He’s “soft,” he doesn’t have the tough “attitude” of NY.

    It’s so ironic – if the guy had just shut himself down and went on the DL – he would have been better off.

    Instead he fights through a bad shoulder and in turn playing through pain gets him labeled as “soft.”

  121. Laura - My Pretend Boyfriend plays for BAL April 30th, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    “Some of you children don’t have a clue how lucky you have had it since 1996.”

    Not for nothing, the 80′s were no picnic either. If not for Don Mattingly, a lot of Yankee fans would have jumped off of the Brooklyn Bridge.

  122. Rick April 30th, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    The fickle fans will come out of the woodwork when Javy throws a neat quality start saying they knew it all along and 2004 is all forgotten.

  123. Jim Mason April 30th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    “after four horrible years, all of the sudden Andruw Jones is experiencing a renaissance. Gotta wonder if PEDs.”

    His fans are wondering the same about Cano – Dominican, where it is not illegal and available over the counter, pals with A-Rod. You’d think with the way all this stuff has gone, a Yankee fan would nto cast this particular stone from our glass stadium.

  124. upstate kate April 30th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    CB
    maybe not a great example w/ buckner, but it always bothered me that he got the blame…and I did remember it was game 6, which made it even worse to me.

    anyway, the Yankees are the defending world champions and are off to a great start, even w/ Javy’s struggles

  125. The Actual JMK of Mystique and Aura April 30th, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    Beyond the fact that 2004 was a very long time ago and the entire team played poorly toward the end, lest we forget that frankly, the Yankees didn’t really field all that great of a team in 2004. If anything, I was more surprised that they’d managed to win the first three straight. While the offense was certainly excellent — particularly in the power department — that was one of the worst defensive teams in history, their relievers were largely unreliable and the starting pitching was quite tepid.

    Boston had a far more balanced team with a significantly better playoff rotation. There’s no shame in losing a series to Shilling and Pedro in their primes. Was it heartbreaking to see them lose in such fashion? Sure, no doubt. But that has little, if anything, to do with the here and now.

    While it may be within your right to boo the players, it doesn’t do anything but inflame the situation and give yourself some release for your lame anger. As someone above pointed out, the players are motivated to succeed for themselves and because of the organization —not because Joey from Fresh Kills is pissy that he threw up a clunker in April and makes it known how upset he is.

    Javy’s been as consistent as any pitcher in baseball — give him a little time to show that he is who he is.

  126. MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    SJ44

    I remember those days. :lol: You really didn’t need to refresh my memory. I was trying to leave that deep in the back.

  127. raymagnetic April 30th, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    Truth be told Javy should be ignoring the fans.

    Jeter out of all people gets booed.

    I never heard Jeter talk about how unfair it was that despite winning multiple rings he got booed.

    Javy needs to control what he can control and that’s pitching. Pitch well and nobody will boo you bottom line.

    It does make him sound like he can’t handle NY when he complains about being booed. And I’m not a child, an idiot or any of the above.

    Pitch well boos vanish.

  128. Kev. April 30th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    SJ44,

    Just tell your son to pitch a good game against the white sox tomorrow.

  129. pat April 30th, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    “Not for nothing, the 80’s were no picnic either. If not for Don Mattingly, a lot of Yankee fans would have jumped off of the Brooklyn Bridge.”

    We had season tickets in the 80′s and when people talk abut the empty seats in the stadium now, it makes me shake my head. There used to be nights everyone could have their own row.

  130. SJ44 April 30th, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    Oh gee kev, how creative.

    Did you need help with the big words on that post or did you do it all by yourself?

  131. THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    Just to restate my position, because there are about 10 different conversations going on:

    1. I am confident Vazquez will turn it around. I think 200 ip, a 4.5 era, and a 13-10 record at this point.

    2. I would not personally boo any Yankee, including Vazquez, but understand why fans do.

    3. 2004 was absolutely terrible, and Vazquez played a role it in it. Rightly or wrongly, the image of him giving up and grand slam is etched in the mind of many Yankee fans. To those minimizing 2004 or Vazquez’s role in it? You either being dishonest or didn’t live through it.

  132. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    Well, the Yankees may or may not be better than last year, but the Rays are much better than last year and the division is up for grabs; maybe that’s what is scaring people. There is still no excuse for this garbage.

    Sorry, Truth – it’s the WS, it’s not real life. Ok, so what? The Yankee collapsed – did your world collapse? Even if I bought your argument, blaming that series on one person is beyond stupid.

  133. MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    For those of you that are bothered by his comments you need to realize that he didn’t even respond until he was ask the 4th time.

  134. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    Oh, and booing Mo? Sickening.

  135. THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    SJ44

    When are were talking about Matsui/Johnson the other day, you defend Johnson to the death. But then when the game came on, you started absolutely ripping him. Will you be doing the same with Vazquez????

  136. stuckey April 30th, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    “Javy needs to control what he can control and that’s pitching. Pitch well and nobody will boo you bottom line.

    It does make him sound like he can’t handle NY when he complains about being booed. And I’m not a child, an idiot or any of the above.”

    Maybe not, but that line of reasoning is childish and idiotic and all of the above.

    You’re suggesting the question will resolve itself he is just pitches well, which is true, but that’s not what’s really being discussed.

  137. MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    Betsy

    I don’t usually advocate using that word but I find it fitting in this situation.

  138. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    The 80′s were bad….very bad. I never thought I’d see 1 WS in my lifetime, nevermind 5.

  139. CB April 30th, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    “It does make him sound like he can’t handle NY when he complains about being booed. And I’m not a child, an idiot or any of the above.”

    ray-

    That’s also true. Vazquez never should have commented on the booing in the first place. That was a big mistake. He handled the Schilling thing much better.

    But the root of the anger and booing isn’t really his current performance. It’s the crazy idea that he is singularly to blame for 2004.

    And that’s nuts.

    Sure he should concentrate on pitching as that’s what he can control.

    Because he sure can’t control columnists trying to increase the page views for their articles by arguing that he has a “loser gene.”

  140. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    Which word, sickening?

  141. Gil L April 30th, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    to those who challange the legitimacy of booing a player:
    http://www.slate.com/id/2141597/?nav=tap3

    it’s a great read.
    booing is as old as sports, and a basic part of the game.
    are yankee fans to trigger-happy sometimes with the boos? definitely.
    is it never justified? if you think so, you need to re-examine what sports is.

  142. MaineYankee April 30th, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    stupid

  143. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) April 30th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    I also didn’t think Javy should have gone there in terms of the booing ; I think that just made it worse. It doesn’t mean, however, that he deserves this scorn that’s being heaped upon him. He’s human. He’s probably been thinking about this since 2004 and obviously it’s weighed upon him. Javy never should have pitched hurt – that killed him with the fans. I still have no clue why he, out of everyone, is taking the blame for that series. I suppose it’s because it was game 7 and the Yankees still had a chance to win – and the fans look at it like Javy just completely took them out of it.

  144. RSM April 30th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    After reading today’s comments, i have two thoughts:

    Boy would I love to hear White and scooter announce just one more game.

    I really doubt Javy is just being complacent and wouldn’t like better results.

  145. GreenBeret7 April 30th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    Lack of effort is what should be booed. Not lack of production…either individual or team.

  146. Steve April 30th, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    To hear some fair weather fans talk, Javy Vazquez was singlehandedly and solely responsible for everything negative that happened in games 4-5-6 and 7 in the 2004 ALCS.
    And then there are the many that know otherwise.

  147. stuckey April 30th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    “2. I would not personally boo any Yankee, including Vazquez, but understand why fans do.”

    Then you’re equally due criticism for that position.

    “3. 2004 was absolutely terrible, and Vazquez played a role it in it. Rightly or wrongly, the image of him giving up and grand slam is etched in the mind of many Yankee fans”

    “Rightly or wrong” is what’s being discussed. Saying “rightly or wrongly” is not taking a position, so restating it is pointless.

    “To those minimizing 2004 or Vazquez’s role in it? You either being dishonest or didn’t live through it.”

    Reiterating a position does not make it any more relevant than the first time.

    Javy Vazquez didn’t not cost the Yankees from winning the division and the homefield advantage.

    Javy Vazquez did not cause a loss on the Minnesota series.

    Javy Vazquez was not the reason the Yankees lost a single game in the Boston series.

    Your argument is he pitched a couple of bad innings in a game where the Yankees (who would score 3 runs) were already down 2-0 and came in with the bases loaded and 1 out.

    Again, if you understood the concept, you’d realize how intellectual dishonest you’re being in service of your self-congratulatory ‘agonizing’ over 2004.

  148. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 30th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    If you really need to “blame” anyone for 2004, blame Gary Sheffield for making the comment that was posted on the locker of every Sux fan and in essence woke the sleeping giant; blame the steroid users on the Sux for putting in postseasons that were off the charts and for the wrong reasons; and blame the Sux for imbibing Jack Daniels before every game, a little calmative there to help with ALCS nerves.

    If with all of that information you still feel the need to add your comments about 2004 to the book of Lamentations, all I can figure is you like playing victim. You have legitimate reasons to feel a sense of vindication for the Yankees. You might not have noticed, but the “collapse of monumental proportions” talk has started to be replaced with the talk of tainted titles in 2004 and 2007.

  149. GreenBeret7 April 30th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    With the wind blowing in from left field at 12-15 MPH, NYY has the advantage of not having right handed hitters that are purely pull hitters. Hitters like Jeter and Rodriguez can reach the right and right center field seats with regularity.

  150. stuckey April 30th, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    “to those who challange the legitimacy of booing a player:”

    I challenge the idea you understood what you just read.

    The linked article doesn’t speak to any position on booing, it merely traces the origin of something no one denies exists…

  151. THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    I blame multiple people for ’04, including kevin brown and tom gordon. I am not “agnozing” or “hooked” on 04, but when it comes up I am going to tell the truth about it, that’s for sure.

  152. CR9 April 30th, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    What a HUGE BUNCH OF STINKSNIFFERS the whole cast of NESN is.

    WHEW!!

    They reek of Red Sox!!

    Pete Abe too! Stinkie Sniffing Lars Anderson!!

    They expect to go 14-4 against both the Jays and Orioles.

    I dont even expect that for the Yankees. It’s just not that easy to win games, even against lesser competition.

  153. Phil Columbus April 30th, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    Not trying to keep 2004 conversation going, but I have a question that I keep wanting to ask? I believe that John Olerud was the starting 1B until he got hurt in game 4 and weren’t there a couple of key plays that Tony Clark failed to make that Olerud would have made? I may be wrong, was wondering if anyone remembers anything along those lines.

  154. Phil Columbus April 30th, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    Don’t mean the plays occured in game 4.

  155. Eric April 30th, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    I also think Winn should get the start today. Give Grandy the day off and play Gardner in CF. Why would Gardner get a day off vs lefties when he hit lefties BETTER than righties last yr and also this year! Last year he hit .294 vs Lefties compared to .264 vs righties!

  156. raymagnetic April 30th, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    “Maybe not, but that line of reasoning is childish and idiotic and all of the above.

    You’re suggesting the question will resolve itself he is just pitches well, which is true, but that’s not what’s really being discussed.”

    It’s childish to think that if he worries about what he can control things will work themselves out? Alrighty then.

    Actually, that quite the ADULT way to look at things. Control what you can and don’t worry about the rest of the nonsense.

    What is being discussed however? That fans shouldn’t boo? People can do whatever they want to in my opinion. It’s on Javy whether he let’s it bother him however.

  157. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    To be clear in my position-

    I didn’t think Winn SHOULD get the start tonight. I my inner Joe Girardi just thought he WOULD

  158. The Actual JMK of Mystique and Aura April 30th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    Regarding the Slate article: So let me get this straight –people have been doing something for hundreds upon thousands of years and that’s why we should do continue to do it? How progressive!

  159. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    Just took a quick scroll down this thread -

    This could be a really long night.

    Who wants to talk Muppets with me?????????????

  160. Jerkface April 30th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    This was posted like 45 minutes ago but someone asked if Javy was ‘a grinder’, first of all thats dumb, second of all yea, obviously Javy is a grinder. This season he hasn’t had a good breaking ball and has been ‘grinding’ through 5 or 6 pitch ABs on almost every batter.

    A quintessential grinder.

  161. raymagnetic April 30th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    CB,

    I don’t think he should be blamed about 2004 at all. 2004 is a distant memory for me as far as I’m concerned.

    I just don’t think Javy and Girardi should be making a big deal over people booing. He should be saying that Javy needs to pitch his game. Boos be damned!

  162. Erin April 30th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
    Just took a quick scroll down this thread -

    This could be a really long night.

    Who wants to talk Muppets with me?????????????

    ***********************
    oooh, I got on at just the right time! :)

  163. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    Erin-

    I knew I could count on you!!!!!!!!

    Lets see-
    Miss Piggy- selfish and self absorbed or just very misunderstood???

  164. GreenBeret7 April 30th, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    Maybe the more adult fans and players should follow these booing idiots around to their jobs and boo them when they don’t do what they are paid to do, or, follow them home and boo them in the bedroom for poor perfomance.

  165. CR9 April 30th, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    Miss Piggy = misunderstood!

  166. GreenBeret7 April 30th, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 6:55 pm
    Erin-

    I knew I could count on you!!!!!!!!

    Lets see-
    Miss Piggy- selfish and self absorbed or just very misunderstood???

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    She’s a tramp. A real pig.

  167. Erin April 30th, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 6:55 pm
    Erin-

    I knew I could count on you!!!!!!!!

    Lets see-
    Miss Piggy- selfish and self absorbed or just very misunderstood???

    ****************************
    hmmmm….good question. Miss Piggy was definitely her own biggest fan. The key to Piggy was always, always letting her get her own way. So I guess I’m leaning towards selfish and self absorbed (not that there’s anything wrong with that-Miss Piggy is one of my favorites.) :)

  168. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    I have to go with misunderstood-

    Even though she is all about “moi”, she would still do anything for her beloved Kermie

  169. Erin April 30th, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    Erica – always OPPC – Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
    I have to go with misunderstood-

    Even though she is all about “moi”, she would still do anything for her beloved Kermie

    ***********************
    that’s true….she would do anything for Kermit.

    Here’s a question-did they really get married at the end of Muppets Take Manhattan? There’s no further mention of the nuptials in any subsequent Muppet production.

  170. Carl April 30th, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    Lets go Yankees!!!

  171. GreenBeret7 April 30th, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    I always had an eye for hot chics like Camillia or those hot little blonde hippy types like Janice

  172. BronxBorn April 30th, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    Right On GB!

  173. Kev. April 30th, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Is there a game today? where’s the game post?

  174. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 30th, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Erica – I am facing someone next week who has TEN flippin pitchers starting. I’m waving the white flag already. There’s no way to win against that.

  175. Erin April 30th, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    GreenBeret7 April 30th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
    I always had an eye for hot chics like Camillia or those hot little blonde hippy types like Janice

    *************************
    :lol:

    Janice is awesome

  176. GreenBeret7 April 30th, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    Camillia is especially hot in the pix of her floating around in a skillet.

  177. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    GreenBeret7 April 30th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
    I always had an eye for hot chics like Camillia or those hot little blonde hippy types like Janice
    **************

    Camilla certainly is a chick :lol:

  178. Doreen - GTLU Standings, Updates, Calendar & Rules April 30th, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    Gil L -

    I have been out to dinner and am just catching up. But I had to jump ahead. Exactly what behavior has Javy Vazquez exhibited that warrants getting booed????? You listed a bunch of things that don’t warrant booing and then some really “ephemeral” stuff like being “soft.”

    Do you mean that by trying to accommodate the media and answer questions and be a gentleman, Javy Vazquez has sealed his fate and deserves to be booed??????

    He has not performed the way anyone was hoping so far. But that does not mean he hasn’t given every effort.

    Booing is saved for the truly reprehensible. Yankees fans, many of them, have no class whatsoever.

  179. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    trisha – OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 30th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
    Erica – I am facing someone next week who has TEN flippin pitchers starting. I’m waving the white flag already. There’s no way to win against that.
    ***************

    I had TWO more starts than my opponent this week.

    Edwin Jackson imploded and left me -20. Ben Sheets got roughed up and is -10

    Meanwhile- I moved Heath Bell to my reverses cause he was barely pitching. And he got three saves this week.

    So basically, every move I made is wrong and more starts mean nothing. Don’t give up

  180. stuckey April 30th, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    “It’s childish to think that if he worries about what he can control things will work themselves out? Alrighty then.”

    When has that been in question exactly? Where and when has it been determined he’s worrying about it? Because when asked 4 times he answered a question?

    “What is being discussed however? That fans shouldn’t boo? People can do whatever they want to in my opinion.”

    Agreed, including discussing whether the choices some people make are unseemly are lacking in character.

  181. Tom in N.J. April 30th, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    Dr teeth all the way!

  182. GreenBeret7 April 30th, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    Pettitte has given up more than his share of Rivera hits allowed this year.

  183. Dano April 30th, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    The booing makes absolutely zero sense.

    So, it’s “your right” as a paying fan?
    Hang on, haven’t you paid to go to YS to support, er, correct me if I’m wrong, the Yankee team?
    SO WHAT’S THE POINT OF BOOING YOUR TEAM’S PLAYER??

    And I can’t even begin to understand the logic behind “it’s for 2004″.

    Moronic doesn’t begin to describe it.

    I’m 3,500 miles away, but an idiot’s an idiot in any country.

  184. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 30th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Erica, I know what you’re saying, but ten. TEN. That’s downright scary. I’m just being realistic here.

  185. teddy gbu April 30th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    kidding me

  186. RalphieD (OPPC) April 30th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    poor andy…bad luck

  187. GreenBeret7 April 30th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Two nearly perfect pitches and two hits

  188. Doreen - GTLU Standings, Updates, Calendar & Rules April 30th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    The Truth -

    If living through the 2004 playoffs was the worst thing in your life, you are incredibly lucky and have no business booing anyone for any reason. You live a charmed life, if a baseball defeat is the worst experience you’ve had in life.

    Puh-leeeze.

  189. Wheels on Meals April 30th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Let me take an educated guess: Red sox leading the Orioles right now (?)

  190. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    Wheels on Meals April 30th, 2010 at 7:13 pm
    Let me take an educated guess: Red sox leading the Orioles right now (?)
    *************

    That would be an incorrect, uneducated guess.

    That game is scoreless- bottom of the 1st

  191. Jerkface April 30th, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    No game thread yet? Chad shoulda lined em up on a timer

  192. Erin April 30th, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    Tom in N.J. April 30th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
    Dr teeth all the way!

    ************************
    The whole band is the epitome of coolness. :D

  193. RalphieD (OPPC) April 30th, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    “Let me take an educated guess: Red sox leading the Orioles right now (?)”

    nope but the O’s do have 2nd and 3rd 0 outs

  194. Benny Blanco April 30th, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    Andy will get out of this.

  195. Benny Blanco April 30th, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Andy will get out of this.

  196. Carl April 30th, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Seen that coming

  197. SJ44 April 30th, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    2 bloops and a blast.

  198. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Its early, but I think I am going to shower now

  199. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 30th, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Yeah, I moved Gregg into reserve and Broxton into active because, you know, it had to happen sometime, Broxton being Broxton! Broxton got me 2.5, and that’s from being dumped in a game to get some work in. Gregg is at 17.5.

    You just don’t know.

    Saint Joe karma is hitting that team (and my closer) right in the nose!

    ;)

  200. RalphieD (OPPC) April 30th, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    dang konerko…wth is that guy doing with that coat!

  201. teddy gbu April 30th, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    this is not fun. all cheap runs

  202. Benny Blanco April 30th, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    Who’s the idiot with the jacket?

  203. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    What kind of idiot waves his jacket in front of a player????????

  204. Trevor April 30th, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    The guys jacket was in the way.

  205. GreenBeret7 April 30th, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    Not a good start tonight.

  206. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 30th, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    O’s going all over Lackey! 2-0, 1 out.

    :)

  207. Michelle April 30th, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Bad pitch with right field being so short . Of course the one person in the lineup that is hitting hurts them.

  208. Doreen - GTLU Standings, Updates, Calendar & Rules April 30th, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    I have to stop before I have a conniption.

    The Truth -

    the Yankees have NOT NOT NOT dominated their playoff opponents for 87 years.

    they have done well, very well, for themselves in the post season, but 2004 was not the first time they lost in an unhappy manner nd it wont be the last.

    It is an incredibly spoiled brat attitude that Yankees fans have regarding 2004. Yes, it was an awful dsapointment; we all that it was over afater the third gamek Guess what? It wasn’t. Guess what. Life goes on. Guess what, other teams besides the Yankess can be good. Guess waht, they won a WS last seaosn.

    I have really had it HAD IT HAD IT with the feeling that some fans of entitlement. It is sickening. to the point that you justify booing someone 5-plus years afater the fact.

    Get a life, people.

    ******************

    In the meantime, not such a good start for Andrew Eugene.

  209. Wheels on Meals April 30th, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    The white sox are just better than we are.

  210. pat April 30th, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    “Its early, but I think I am going to shower now”

    Thank you for taking your responsibilities seriously tonight. :wink:

  211. Doreen - GTLU Standings, Updates, Calendar & Rules April 30th, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    **Must be because it’s Cervelli and not his buddy Posada behind the plate.

  212. GreenBeret7 April 30th, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Carl April 30th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
    Seen that coming

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Whatever you say, Kreskin.

  213. Michelle April 30th, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Andy has to hold them right here. The Yankees should hammer Garcia tonight. He has been terrible.

  214. CB April 30th, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Konerko is the only guy in the entire line up that’s hit for the White Sox. He’s the one guy who you don’t want to beat you but with the two bloops there wasn’t much andy could do.

    He got ahead of konerko quickly and konerko didn’t hit that ball well, but that’s what happens with the short RF porch.

  215. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 30th, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Erica – Andy is my pitcher. I won’t complain because he’s been awesome to date. But time to getting working on my superstition. Don’t give up hope!

  216. JZ April 30th, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    ooops; Andy is due for a bad start.
    This is OK, but right now our offense probably is not able to overcome 3 run deficit.

  217. Jon April 30th, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    Nothing cures a slumping offense better than Yankee pitching. :(

  218. Bryan April 30th, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    Kick that stupid jerk out of the stadium…

    Someone needs to beat him down

  219. CR9 April 30th, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    This is Michael Kay’s fault again. He was talking about the White Sox RISP hitting being poor.

  220. Jon April 30th, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    JZ April 30th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
    ooops; Andy is due for a bad start.
    This is OK, but right now our offense probably is not able to overcome 3 run deficit.

    ———–

    JZ = troll

  221. CR9 April 30th, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    That fan should be BOOED!

  222. trisha - OPPC member who sees, hears, and knows all. 28 is on its way!!!!! April 30th, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    Erica, I have to keep lobbing these to you because you are the only one (I think) here in our league and so understand.

    I had Paul Konkero and dropped him.

    :)

    See what I mean?

  223. tampayank April 30th, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    Yogi is right, it’s not the heat but the humidity :(

  224. Benny Blanco April 30th, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    Andy can get any luck. Watch Freddy Garcia become Nolan Ryan tonight.

  225. Wheels on Meals April 30th, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    26 pitches

  226. Wheels on Meals April 30th, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    I will take it upon myself to jinx Freddy Garcia:

    Freddy Garcia will pitch a perfect-game/no-hitter/shutout tonight.

  227. SJ44 April 30th, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    I see the usual trolls show up once there is a deficit.

    Like clockwork.

  228. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    Game thread :arrow:

  229. RS April 30th, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    Pettitte didn’t even pitch badly in that inning. Quentin’s double was the only hard hit ball. It wasn’t like he got behind on hitters and had to throw cookies down the middle of the plate. He got to strike 2 and the hitters just fought off good pitches. Konerko’s HR is an out in any other ballpark.

    Let’s see if the offense can get back a run or two.

  230. Erica - always OPPC - Sesame Street Mafia and GTLU supporter April 30th, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    Go to the game thread :arrow:
    (Trolls stay behind)

  231. THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    Doreen-

    You are right, I have lived a very charmed life- I have always been blessed and was successful at an early age. But I still maintain, other then the death of friends and family, 2004 was one of the worst moments of my life. Certainly not THE worst, but definitely one of the worst.

    I know you only just recently became a Yankee fan, but PUHHH-LLEASE, dont minimize 2004. Do I agonize over it? No, of course not. But when it comes up in conversation, the least we can do is tell the truth about it.

  232. THE TRUTH April 30th, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    SJ44-

    I really don’t understand what a “troll” is, but I think I get it now.

    When someone says something you agree with, they are a normal poster. But when somebody says something you disagree with, and then proves why you are wrong, they are a troll.

  233. Carl April 30th, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    Alex has new shoes!

  234. Carl April 30th, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    Alex!

  235. Doreen - GTLU Standings, Updates, Calendar & Rules April 30th, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    The Truth -

    Recently as in less than many people here, but for about 18 years, I ‘ve been a Yankees fan.

    2004, when it happened, hurt. No doubt. But it is baseball. And I implore you and all other Yankees fans who can’t seem to get it past it to put it in perspective. the Yankees ahve won 27 World Championships and numerous pennants and division titles. 2004 was not the only chance they ever had and they blew it. And last year they did win a WS. I do not minimize the feelings that happened at the time. It is time to move on.

    And to pile all your negative energy on one person all this time after is really kind of pathetic.

  236. Matt April 30th, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    Uh, if Cano just stopped between the bases they would have tied the game before he was tagged out since it was not a force play at second. Has to be more aware of the situation there.

  237. JZ April 30th, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    enough talking about Cano. He’s awesome right now. But our team is down 1 run and Andy just gave up a double.

  238. Don April 30th, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    Andy’s not so dandy today.

  239. Mark- Can't touch this April 30th, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    Andy needs to to pitch more inside.

  240. Pat April 30th, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    Can’t believe no one has mentioned this.. in the first inning when Swisher grounded into a double play, if A-Rod touched home before Cano was tagged out, shouldn’t the run count? After all, Cano was NOT a forceout, or does it matter?

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