Yankees postgame issues, news and notes
Posted by: Brian Heyman - Posted in Misc on May 05, 2010 
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The management and health of the older Yankees figure to be an ongoing theme this season. Several have experienced minor problems in this last week, costing them a game or more, including Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada and Alex Rodriguez.
Andy Pettitte is the latest to experience an issue, having left Wednesday’s 7-5 win over the Orioles after five innings with stiffness that was diagnosed through an MRI as mild inflammation of his left elbow. He had stiffness while warming up as well.
“He probably could’ve stayed in the game,” pitching coach Dave Eiland said. “We didn’t want to do that. He wanted to stay in. But the expression on his face kind of told us the story.” Pettitte had stiffness in his left forearm while warming up for his previous start, too.
It’s all part of the cost of having aging stars. The Yankees obviously weren’t hot to re-sign two other popular but aging stars, Hideki Matsui and Johnny Damon.
It’s up to Girardi to figure out when to give the older folks time off or an extra day between starts.
“I think we’re going to have to manage it,” Girardi said. “Part of what you have to manage is the competitive spirit in them. You have to determine whether it’s just soreness or injury, and does soreness turn into injury. Those are things you have to determine as a manager. It’s usually harder when a guy has mileage. When a guy has mileage, they’ve probably pitched through aches and pains or played through aches and pains.”
Girardi feels Rivera will be available Friday night in Boston. Rivera, who hasn’t pitched in five straight games since experiencing tightness in his left side, thought he could have gone Wednesday. With Posada, Girardi will see how he feels on Friday. He has missed two straight with his mildly strained right calf.
The Yankees’ starting pitching, depth, Derek Jeter and Robinson Cano, and often the bottom of the order (like Brett Gardner at. 346 with 13 steals) have helped them overcome slow starts by Mark Teixeira, Nick Johnson and A-Rod as well as a few injuries. Between those things and all the road swings, 19-8 looks pretty good right now.
Curtis Granderson isn’t one of the older guys, but, of course, he’s on the DL with that groin he strained on Saturday, perhaps for a month. He is reporting progress, though. The center fielder said he will not make the coming seven-game road trip and just come to Yankee Stadium for treatment. He’s still not sure of the timetable for his comeback.
“I honestly don’t know in terms of (re-starting) baseball activity,” Granderson said. “I know for sure 15 days and we’ll see how everything goes after that. But I’m a lot better from Saturday.”
The Yankees are going to play their lone regular-season series in Detroit starting Monday. Granderson had been looking forward to going back to face his old team. Several family members and friends were supposed to come.
“Maybe we’ll run into them in October,” Granderson said. …
The Yankees took a moment before the game to recognize the passing of Ernie Harwell, the former broadcaster for the Brooklyn Dodgers, New York Giants and mostly the Tigers. He passed away on Tuesday at age 92.
“Nice and very intelligent and a voice that demands attention,” said Granderson, who met a then-retired Harwell a few times while playing for the Tigers from 2004-09. “Not only just Detroit (is sad), but the whole state of Michigan. It’s amazing the amount of comments that people say about this is a Michigan icon, not just a Detroit icon.” …
The Yankees are taking the train Thursday to Boston. ”Guys like it,” Girardi said. “We basically get a whole train to ourselves.” …
The Yankees aren’t feeling pressure to speed up their games with the Red Sox after the criticism ump Joe West leveled the last time they played. ”We’re there to win games, not get finished in two and a half hours,” Girardi said. …
Good sign: Nick Johnson went 3 for 3 with two walks. It was the first time he’d reached base five times since April 20, 2006, when he was with the Nationals. He lifted his average to 171. Bad sign: David Robertson couldn’t close, giving up two solo shots in the ninth before getting pulled. His ERA is up to 14.21 in nine appearances. He said it’s not really mechanical, that he’s just missing on pitches. “I’m looking to turn it around,” Robertson said. …
The Yankees have won four straight, seven of eight and 12 of 17. They are 12-4 vs. righty starters. They are 9-3 vs. the AL East, including 5-1 vs. Baltimore. They are 10-2 at home, their best start since going 11-1 in 1999. And they have won eight of their first nine series for just the fourth time in franchise history.
Injuries are part of every team’s season. Good teams find ways to overcome them.
Yankees are still on their way to 28. No need to worry. Sit back and enjoy the show.
Robertson needs Scranton time
What do we have here…
Damon down again with his usual calf injuries
Matsui in a terrible slump and down to .250 .319 .423 .742 after a blazing hot start
Having too many of these old players on your roster is just asking for trouble.
According to an ESPN players poll, Joba, Alex and Swish are the top three most overrated players in MLB.
Alex and Joba have made their share of enemies so no surprise, but Swisher? Is he even rated high enough to be considered overrated?
“Robertson needs Scranton time”
Needs more regular work. That’s for sure.
Maybe swap him and Melancon for a while ?
This doesn’t look like a year that’s going to go all that smoothly. The Yankees core is old and although they have managed to defy Father Time so far, they can only do so for so long. I appreciate all the more Cashman’s desire to get younger in other areas (really just one, since Javy is not young nor is Nick)……too bad it hasn’t worked out thus far. Still, it’s a marathon season and there is still time for these guys to contribute.
This just in…the Yankees are good!
repost:
LGY,
Here’s the thing about worrying. Why worry about things that may not come to pass? Especially in baseball when anything can happen?
The best of the best can fail. And the scrappiest scrub can surprise.
In essence, worrying (like for real) about the Yankees and their opponents is a waste of time.
I hate polls like that as they are always a reflecton of players’ jealousy. Swisher? Give me a break. He’s a good player – who said he is more than that? How can he be overrated?
When Park comes back I have a feeling Robo goes back to SWB
Boli or no Boli, how can Alex be overrated with 580+ hr @ 34?
Swisher on that list is pure Yankee hatred. he’s not even rated!
I agree with Joba… way too much attention way to fast.
if Swisher were on the underated list, it would make sense.
yup. I loves me some Nick Swisher.
Enough with the silliness of gardner being like Wade Boggs or Tony Gwynn. For starters, Gardner doesn’t have that much power, nor is he a line drive hitter. He’c a slah and dash hitter. If he and the Yankees are lucky, he’ll become Brett Butler or Willie Wilson, and for what the NYYs need, that’s plenty.
With no game tomorrow there will be plently of time to discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and related topics.
Nite all.
Is it a bad sign that the Yankees have these many nagging injuries with so many off days so far?
***He’s a slash*** and dash hitter
So looks like
Willis vs. Vazquez
Porcello vs. Mitre
Bonderman vs. Hughes
Sabathia vs. Verlander
Joe’s going to have to rest the players quite a bit the next month or so; we’ve used up all of our days off, lol. To be honest, I’m hoping for a couple of rainouts
Gardner needs to be moved up in the lineup. #2 spot would be best to exploit the hit and run with Jeter.
GOOOOAAAALLLLLL!!!!!
Oops. Wrong sport. Seattle scores. 2-0.
# pat May 5th, 2010 at 11:06 pm
According to an ESPN players poll, Joba, Alex and Swish are the top three most overrated players in MLB.
Alex and Joba have made their share of enemies so no surprise, but Swisher? Is he even rated high enough to be considered overrated?
Jeter must be mad A-Rod took his spot.
Braden probably stuffed the ballot box.
If I was Swisher I would take being overrated as a compliment-
I think Carl is on to something. Nothing against Swisher, but I never considered hm great enough to be “overrated”
“Gardner needs to be moved up in the lineup. #2 spot would be best to exploit the hit and run with Jeter”
——————————————————————————–
no.
Nick Johnson needs to remain in the #2 spot. And fans with common sense, need to get off his @ss
Good night Yankee people!!!
Not sure why the Yanks can’t be just as good as last year? Rodriguez wasn’t even playing at this time last year. The Yanks had to bring up two catchers last year around this time, one was a non-hitting AA catcher and the other catcher was a career monor leaguer. What about a 5th start? Anybody they could find. Sabathia was just finding himself. The bullpen wasn’t established and the team was 17-17. They’re 19-8 now. Nobody knows what going to happen with Pettitte. You have a pitcher and a pitching coach who had a long history of arm trouble and they don’t seem very concerned.
Over the past couple of day now I’ve heard Brett Gardner’s swing compared to the swing of Derek Jeter, Ichiro, Tony Gwynn and Wade Boggs.
I just don’t get it. Over the winter yankee fans were saying Gardner was a better player than Jason Bay. Then Gardner should push Curtis Granderson automatically off of CF because of his UZR last year.
Why can’t Gardner just be a young player who has single elite tool who may be evolving into a good everyday player?
Why does he have to now possess hitting tools comparable to hall of famers?
Swish overrated? I’d put Tex on the overrated list over Swisher. What has Swisher done to be overrated? He is overlooked by most people because of how many other good players we have.
right now, if you move Johnson down in the order, he’ll never see a decent pitch and Gardner will never run because he doesn’t always hit the ball hard enough to the outfield to move Jeter 2 bases and because they won’t pitch to either Rodriguez or Teixeira with a base open.
My guess is that other players don’t like Swish’s outsized attitude……….maybe Ozzie voted; who knows? He’s a very strange choice to be picked as overrated.
I kind of thought Swish was underrated .
Who would you guys rate as your top 3 overrated players?
Chone Figgins for one.
Jose Reyes for two.
James Shields for the ridiculous nickname he doesn’t even want.
MO, Pettitte, AROD, and Georgie’s nagging injury issues is why I know signing Jeter long term is a bad idea despite being ‘the right thing to do’…Jeter is bound to start showing his age sooner rather than later
LOL. That’s funny stuff.
I mentioned a week or two back that too many fans go absurdly overboard with regard to streaks – good or bad.
Guys in bad streaks like Johnson, Vazquez, and Granderson need to be benched, traded, released, shot at sundown, etc.
And guys like Gardner and Cervelli who are in very good streaks should be in the lineup everyday (Cervelli) or well on his way to the Hall of Fame.
Good grief.
Not sure that Posada getting hit behind the knee isn’t the reason for the current leg miseries…trying to squat and run with a sore knee will lead to limping and an unnatural gait. Rodriguez’s days of 162 game seasons is over, so he’ll sit 10 games a year and the same with Jeter. Rivera has no arm issues so a sore ribcage/side is pretty minor. Very few things in baseball are as much a sure thing as Jeter, Rivera, Rodriguez and Posada…even at their “advanced age”.
Jason Heyward left tonight’s game with a sore left groin, and he’s day-to-day.
And he’s 20.
Just sayin.
My overrated:
Ryan Howard
Prince Fielder
Papplebon
I just want to make it clear that despite the few shares of stock I own in Brett Gardner, I don’t think he’s ever going to hit close to 15 homeruns, and if your put a binding contract in front of me today saying he’d hit .280 for the year, I’d sign in a NY minute.
Jose Reyes would definitely be near the top of my list for most overrated.
But he’s been such a non-factor and underachiever even when he wasn’t injured that even the most optimistic Mets fans have tempered their long term hopes for him quite a bit.
GB, good point. Every player is going to get dinged up during a long season. It’s not like Mo is having arm problems; I’m not sure that pulling a muscle (or whatever he did) is even age-related – and you’re right about Posada’s issues likely not being age-related either. It’s just that they’ve all come at once………..and when you’re dealing with an elbow issue, well that can be scary.
Can’t compare Heyward, he’ll heal faster at age 20. When u have 4 guys at 36 years old or older, health breakdown has to be a concern
Matsuzaka is overrated – or he was. I’m not sure he’s that highly thought of anymore.
I really don’t get the Brett Gardner stuff. He’s being frequently compared to all stars and hall of famers.
Last year he had what was truly one of the worst swings I’ve seen a major leaguer utilize. Now despite that he had a pretty good season because even with that swing his legs made it work.
This year his swing is much, much better but that only means it’s gone from horrible to functional given his skill set.
Comparing him to hall of famers and all stars is just strange.
It’s just not common for player with Gardners skill set to have productive careers. The last good ball player (and by good I mean better than Juan Pierre…) that I can remember with skills like Gardner’s was Brett Butler. Gardner is faster than Butler but Butler was probably a better hitter.
If Gardner could ever have a career close to Butler’s Gardner and the yankees should be ecstatic.
BJ Ryan is fast climbing the most over rated player, not for lack of talent but for lack of desire to do more than he has. He’s comfortable where he is. Sadly, his attitude appears to be rubbing off on his brother. That BS on third base last night is happening all too often this year with Justin Upton.
Correction: ***BJ Upton***
It’s the homegrown thing – every player the Yankees bring up is destined to be a star. It’s almost as if fans would rather have a lesser player if he’s homegrown instead of a better player via trade or FA. I think we’re seeing this with AJax.
Hope Andy only misses 1 start. The “old” man got off to a great start this year.
“Can’t compare Heyward, he’ll heal faster at age 20.”
The point, which Betsy and Grumpy expounded upon, is just because they’re dealing with physical issues, doesn’t necessarily make them age related.
“When u have 4 guys at 36 years old or older, health breakdown has to be a concern.”
Yes, but one of these day, some of you guys are going to grasp the idea that players of their experience playing at such a high level is just as much as boon as it is a concern.
You could replace all of them with young studs today, and maybe your long-term prospects improve, but don’t think for a minute you wouldn’t be taking away a very critical element of this team and their success.
GB7 obviously meant BJ Upton, but BJ Ryan was pretty overrated too.
Although, he had some major issues after he signed that big deal with the Jays. The guy was throwing 85 MPH before he hung it up.
I don’t know CB. Al Leiter was raving about Gardner, on today’s broadcast.
Gardner, just lately, with the variety of different hits he’s gotten has reminded me of Brett Butler. He’s still not the bunter BB was.
Josh Hamilton has become a very over rated player. His career his really stalled and regressed since that all star game at the stadium.
Carlos Lee is another.
But the most over rated players in the game are probably closers. Brian Fuentes was somehow an all star last year; Frankie Rodriguez; Ryan Franklin. Lots of over rated closers.
They, i caught the Ryan mistake right after sending it, Ryan was fine, but, then turned into Steve Karsay. BJ Upton is just wasting away his career. Last night, Justin Upton is leading off of 3rd base and the catcher feints a throw to 3rd and Upton turned his back on the catcher and just walked slowly back towards 3rd base. The catcher made the throw and I believe that Upton’s still walking back to 3rd base.
CB,
why is KRod overrated? his era is 0.71 in 12 games
Butler was an outstanding bunter, one of the best in the game at that time.
Gardner’s value to the Yanks would grow significantly if he knew how to bunt the way Butler did.
But Gardner is not a natural bunter. He’s worked on it relentlessly the last couple of years and he’s still not all that good at it.
I can’t for the life of me understand why Gardner wasn’t really taught how to bunt when he was in the minors.
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
CB May 6th, 2010 at 12:01 am
Josh Hamilton has become a very over rated player. His career his really stalled and regressed since that all star game at the stadium.
Do you think the HR hitting contest at the Stadium was a major factor?
Supposedly is messes with swings, like Abreu…
I wasn’t really referring to the small sample of games from this year with regards to KRod. I was more referring to his recent past of the last couple of seasons.
He turns saves into adventures way too often. He doesn’t have good control and walks too many guys.
His stuff is also down from where it was a few years ago.
Don’t move Gardner to No 2, let’s not get carried away. He’s doing well where he is and Johnson is bound to come around. If they put too much pressure on Gardner he might not respond as well.
Most overrated? That’s easy…
JIMMY ROLLINS
There’s a distinction that should be made between overhyped and overrated.
Not sure how guys with a track record of success can be called overrated. Their body of work shows where they should be rated.
Too many players, especially those without track records, are overhyped.
Phil-
I agree with you. This variety of infield hits Gardner has generated – hard not to think of Butler.
Butler was just a good ball player and good for a long time. He got on base a lot and that let him use his speed. Played good defense.
And as you said – what a terrific bunter he was. Amongst the very best bunters the game has seen over the past several decades.
Gardner is faster than Butler. If he could bunt like him… that would be something.
As it is, it’s nice to see Gardner starting to hit more like Butler by getting the ball on the ground far more often and popping up and striking out less.
Benny,
He’s overrated because closers in general are overrated.
CB,
Back to the Mariners, you are absolutely right. They have a number of problems and Griffey/Sweeney at DH is only one of them. My question is, why not drop one of those guys and go pay Jermaine Dye to DH? That’s an instant upgrade of the offense for probably not a lot of money.
Actually there a number of AL teams that could really use Dye’s bat – the White Sox being one of them. That’s another team that I just don’t get what they were doing in the offseason. Jones was a good pickup but why Kotsay, Pierre and Vizquel? Really odd choices if you ask me.
Good points, Pat – but you can only judge whether the young players are overhyped after they’ve settled (or not) into their major league careers (say, give or take a few years after they’ve debuted). What’s the name of the player on the Royals that was so highly regarded? Alex Gordon? He doesn’t appear to be living up to his projections, so I guess by now you could say he’s overhyped.
I never understood the polls of yesteryear always including Jeter as one of the most overrated players in baseball.
Perhaps we are biased since we’ve watched him play for so many years, but the raw numbers don’t lie.
He’s been one of the primary catalysts for 5 world championships and he’s going to surpass 3,000 hits next season.
You sure as hell don’t win 5 rings and get 3,000+ hits by accident.
You guys are talking about Butler but there is a great comp for Brett Gardner and he’s in the big leagues right now. Michael Bourn.
He basically produced at Gardner’s ceiling for 2009 and so far in 2010. Good OBP, massive amounts of steals, great fielding and little power.
Bourn has a year on Gardner – he’s already produced at a high level in 2009 but I could see both guys following similar career paths. Very similar skillsets.
Jealously………….
Mike_Boston-
I don’t think it was the HR contest. Hamilton has really fallen apart due to recurrent injuries (which was the concern that drove the Reds to trade him) and perhaps the relapse with substance abuse he had last year. Perhaps focus.
Mostly it’s been the injuries. He never stays healthy.
Jealousy..
On base percentage:
Gardner .430
Johnson .396
Jeter .341
If this relationship holds up, at some point Gardner should lead off followed by Johnson, and Jeter should be moved farther down in the lineup.
alex gordon was a college team mate of Chamberlain’s. Gordon can’t stay healthy and he was supposed to be the next George Brett/Graig Nettles. He may get to the Beltre/Lowell level, but, he’s got a long way to go. The Royals may have stunted hus education by bringing him up to be their drawing card. One of the most under rated hitters anywhere is the Royal’s Billy Butler. Love to see him DHing for the NYYs.
Josh Hamilton is such a great story and I’m not even talking about his substance abuse issues. Just the fact that he’s essentially out of baseball in 2006, the Reds grab him in the Rule V draft and he dominates spring training makes the team and plays incredible ball for most of 2007. It just speaks to the massive amount of talent this guy has. His raw talent is easily up there with guys like Justin Upton, A-rod, Heyward, etc. If only he could stay healthy and keep his head screwed on straight he would be a hall of famer one day. Unfortunately it’s probably too late for that but that’s the kind of ability he has.
Brett Gardner has a Barry Bonds type swing. He’s amazing.
I was reading this week that KC has Gordon in the minors rehabbing now and have moved him to LF.
“You guys are talking about Butler but there is a great comp for Brett Gardner and he’s in the big leagues right now. Michael Bourn.”
That’s because we were talking about ball players we felt comfortable saying were good.
I’m personally not sold on Bourn yet. Not after one year given his skill set and to a lesser extent his very high babip last year (.366 is high even for someone as fast as bourn).
I agree with you on Dye. Surprised not to see him signed with a club yet. But with the M’s – they already have two players on the roster who are strict DH’s. That said – they should sacrifice some defense in LF or even 1b and sign a guy like Dye. Ryan Langerhans is ok as a 4th/5th OF but he’s starting for them.
The M’s are so painful to watch. They truly are a disaster at the plate. The Rays just came back to score 3 in the 8th and the minute they scored run 3 it felt like the game was completely over because the M’s can score. The M’s announcers sounded deflated.
A 3 run lead forget it. It feels like it may as well be 10 runs.
What an ill conceived team. And that division is so bad they easily could have won it if they had just been more pragmatic this winter.
Instead they almost seemed to become ideological about how to build a team. Terrible moves.
The Royals are so damn inept. They rushed Gordon pretty badly IMO. Yeah he had a great season in AA in 2006 but he struck out 23.3% of the time and had a BABIP of .373 that year. That’s a gigantic red flag, they should have let him stay in the minors in 2007 and develop more. Now his high K rate and injuries have put his career in jeopardy.
So I guess the M’s won’t be doing us any favors, lol. The West seems like a disaster of a division (although the Yankees lost 3 games out there). The Angels have lost the first 3 of a 4 game set to the Sox and the M’s can’t even get up for their ace. Poor Cliff Lee – think he’s going to re-sign?
CB,
I’m just bringing up Bourn as a guy that has the same skillset as Gardner (and I guess Butler?) who has had some success in the majors. Not really as a comp for Gardner because Bourn has only put up one good season. I dunno, I just find it kind of interesting that we have to go back more than a decade with Butler to find a good comp for Gardner and there just happens to be another guy with that same skillset having success in the majors in the present. Not really meaningful just interesting to me and kind of lucky I suppose
OPS:
Gardner: .863
Teixeira: .611
Rodriguez: .763
If this relationship holds up at some point Gardner should hit clean up with Rodriguez and Teixeira moving down to 8 and 9 in the line up.
Rodriguez hitting 8th didn’t work out so well last time someone tried it.
This is the closest historical swing I could find that matches Gardner’s:
http://tinyurl.com/2dvgnah
Here’s the thing about Lee. No one might be able to build a lead in that division (the A’s aren’t likely good enough and Texas is currently hamstrung in making any moves to improve themseves) but if the Mariners manage to fall far enough back, sure as shootin’, Lee will be on the market again at the trade deadlne.
Then things get real interesting…
“I just find it kind of interesting that we have to go back more than a decade with Butler to find a good comp for Gardner and there just happens to be another guy with that same skillset having success in the majors in the present.”
I agree with you on this. Bourn had a very good year last year. And it is interesting to see both him an gardner making their way in the bigs at the same time.
But there really are just so few players with skill sets like his and Gardner’s who have become good everyday players over the past 25 years. You really have to go back to a player like Butler whose prime was almost 20 years ago to find one. I might be missing someone but I really can’t think of a guy who could get on base but hit for minimal power. The best I can do otherwise are guys like Juan Pierre who aren’t really good.
These are players with skill sets almost reminiscent of the players from the dead ball era.
And when there are so few recent comparisons one can draw for a player you need a significant amount of evidence before drawing conclusions that the player is in fact a good one.
It’s in no way impossible for guys like Gardner and Bourn. It’s just not common anymore.
On base percentage:
Gardner .430
If gardy can keep this up for the most of the season, I hope the bombers go after cliff lee during this coming offseason and keep gardy at LF.
2011 Rotation
CC
Lee/AJ
AJ/Lee
Andy
Hughes
”There’s a lot of potential for aggressive expansion”
The worst injury is Grandy’s groin, so all of these injuries aren’t devastating – they all seem minor, they are just coming up all at once.
I think Girardi is really going to have to manage the Old Boys a little more intensely this year, but I still feel this team is solid and has a shot.
Just enjoy the time they put in now in their twilight because eventually we will be dealing with a post-Pettitte/Posada/Rivera/(someday) Jeter era. Enjoy it.
I think Girardi is going to see that his regulars get lots of rest throughout the season, even if that means winning the wild card instead of the division. That makes sense to me. If the Yanks go into the post season with all their guys healthy, I think they’ll be the strongest team in baseball at that point.
Cliff Lee sunk his team in the 8th giving up 3 back to back runs!!
Then the Rays top off the 9th inning with 3 more runs from 2 different relief pitchers giving up a combined 3 more runs. Tampa 8 SEA 2.
Guess who’e nursing a groin injury, but STILL PLAYING, Matt Holliday.? Cardinals getting their butts handed to them in Philly, and tomorrow they face Doc Holladay. Pujols is 0-4 against Halladay
People comparing Gardner to Boggs and Gwynn is just silly.
But I don’t blame people for being excited in here. All we’ve heard from some of the more opinionated experts in this blog is how awful Gardner is. How he’s a joke of a player. How Melky was destined to become this 25HR hitter and how the Yankees backed the wrong horse.
So people puffing their chests out about him at the moment have a right to be proud.
The same way people who constantly have to bring up negative things bloggers and fans wrote about Cano when he was having an awful season 2 years ago and had to be benched.
Are they taking it too far comparing Gardner to greats? Absolutely.
But some of the more vocal Gardner critics have mysteriously disappeared on this blog or if they pop in, they refuse to address him and what he’s done for this team thus far.
Those people know who they are. I never understood why they hated a home grown guy as much as they did when all they do is crow about talent just waiting to pop in the system. Bret Gardner came from that system, although I think because he was in competition with Melky for a time, some of those people had to hate on him because they were wishing and hoping that Melky would turn into something great rather than something expendable.
All I can say about Brett is he seems to be in the middle of every big inning and he’s an exciting player to watch. I hope he adjusts to the league as it adjusts to him because we need him to keep doing what he’s doing.
Wow. The mariner’s season is so not what they were hoping for.
Rob Neyer was on bbt (radio) and was analyzing. I don’t want to say he was hammering them because he’s a quiet, even-keeled analyst. But it started off with Lee and Figgins. Saying that 2 of their big moves of the off-season (which everyone loved) getting off to slow starts is huge.
And the other point is depending on Junior and Sweeney at DH.
Said that Ichiro and Gutierrez are hitting, but that’s about it.
I compare Gardner to Lou Brock (fmr Cardinal LF) base stealer. Brett has the natural ability to chase Brock’s record of 938!!
I like Gardner he been doing a great job. Obviously he is not going to keep up a 340 average and will cool off.
He had good numbers last year in 248 at bats. Now if he had 500 at bats he would project to hit 270 with around a 345-350 obp, 6 homers and 40 plus rbi’s, 12 triples and 50 plus stolen bases based off last year numbers. If he does that I would be really happy.
The key is will he be able to maintain those type of numbers for an entire year playing everyday? If he does than he will be a good number 9 hitter that should play everyday. If he cant he will be a nice 4th outfielder.
The whole comparing him to Ichiro is so silly. Ron Darling did compare Gardner to Lenny Dykstra (obviously he was talking before the steroids) That to me is a more reasonable comparision than Ichiro.
I love Gardner. People here know that. It’s great to see him not only get a chance, but take advantage of the opportunities presented to him.
I knew he was different because even though he’s not a world class hitter, he could do other things to impact the game.
But I’m not going to compare him to other players, past or present. I’m not going to call for him to be put here or there in the batting order.
Just going to trust that Girardi has the smarts to let Brett be an everyday player and hope that Gardner rewards him for it.
Well, I’ve been wrong so far, but it’s only been one month – hardly enough time to decide that Gardner is any kind of long term answer.
GLove, just because someone doesn’t like Gardner as a player or doesn’t think he’s that good doesn’t mean they are hating on him.
Cliff Lee gave up those runs? Then I don’t feel so bad for him, lol
I hate Rob Neyer………..
“But I don’t blame people for being excited in here.”
G. Love-
People should be excited. What he’s doing is great. This is a guy who retooled his swing at close to 27 to finally better leverage his one elite skill. Good for him. What he’s doing isn’t smoke and mirrors. He really has changed his swing. If he was just putting up these numbers without having changed his swing mechanics and approach I wouldn’t put much stock it as it would have likely been a hot streak to start the season.
But there are real substantive reasons to believe that Gardner has changed his game in very positive ways.
But at the same time, it’s important to temper expectations. His skill set is limited. His swing is more functional give his speed than an elite, Jeter or Gwynn type swing.
Part of the reason why I bring this up is because if excitement is the parameter for judging a player then it’s likely that many of the people supporting him most now are going to jump off the band wagon when he slows down later which he inevitably will.
Search through the game over the past 25 years – there aren’t many players with Gardner’s skill set who have been truly good ball players and a number of speed players who have fizzled.
Given that it’s particularly important to keep expectations realistic for what success for gardner is going to look like, especially in the context of the yankees overall team.
These comparisons to first ballot hall of famers and all stars are just nutty and they aren’t going to do Gardner any favors with a fan base that often takes too much of a what have you done lately for me attitude.
Today he’s Ichiro and tomorrow he’s garbage. That’s where these wild, volatile comparisons go.
Betsy’s right. I don’t expect Gardner to be the Yankees CF/LF for the next 10 years.
But what he lacks in talent, he makes up with hard work.
And he’s hardly fully developed as a ball-player, and yet somehow that’s held against him.
Good players constantly strive to get better.
We’ve seen it with Cano. Every year he improves on a weakness.
I get a kick out of that kind of thing, and I think we’ll see it with Gardner, too.
“but it’s only been one month – hardly enough time to decide that Gardner is any kind of long term answer.”
Betsy, what sort of YEAR would Gardner have to put up to have you welcome him back to LF next year?
Genuinely asking…
What’s not to like about Gardner? What did he do that was wrong or so terrible? A gritty homegrown Yankee.
I don’t think people are truly believing the comparisons. When someone says GGBG is our Ichiro (as one manager did), they only mean that he’s like Ichiro.
And shame on espn trying to put the jinx on Gardner. Sheesh.
I refuse to get drawn into this……..I just won’t do it, I’m sorry. I don’t need to explain why I want to see Gardner do it over a whole year before I go gaga over him. I think it’s sad that one can’t be skeptical about a player (me, actually since I’m the only one who gets questioned like this) without being called a hater.
Betsy,
Certain posters have made it their mission to constantly put Bret Gardner down during the off season, the spring and the opening weeks of this season.
As soon as he started to have an impact, they have shut up.
They’ve accused other fans in here of despicable reasons for why they like Gardner i.e. his skin color. That makes my blood boil.
They’ve also proclaimed how we were all dumb and blind to not notice what a sweet beautiful swing Melky had and how he’s going to turn into a 25HR hitter in Atlanta.
Whenever anyone would say they liked Gardner’s potential, they were smacked down in this blog as if they were talking about a Red Sox player rather than a player who came up through the Yankee farm system.
So if that doesn’t qualify as “hating” on him, I don’t know what does.
Betsy,
You don’t have to explain yourself. But I do notice that you get highly offended when someone is compared to Hughes or player X. Are you a prospect snob?
It isn’t where you start, it’s where you end up. And right now, we have a lot of home grown players running the machine. Some were heirloom plants, some were weeds. But they’re all looking pretty now.
GLove, I guess I’m not sure what you’re referring to. If people are bringing up skin color, then that’s beyond despicable. I can only speak for myself, then. I have no particular feelings for Gardner one way or the other; I don’t like him or dislike him. I’m skeptical of him as a player and I want to see him do it for a full year. So far, he’s been great – but baseball is more than 1 month long. I’m not sitting around waiting for him to fail – I hope he succeeds.
And Betsy,
Once again, I’m not referring to you. I didn’t even know you had an opinion on Gardner to be honest.
I agree with everything CB wrote completely. I just think people are excited at what they are seeing on the field.
We’ve been treated to a team over the years that waited for big HR’s to generate runs.
Now, we have a home grown player with insane speed who helps the offense score runs without putting the ball over the wall.
I hope he keeps it up. It’s more interesting baseball to watch for me than sitting around waiting for someone to put the ball over the fence.
M, I don’t know what you mean, so you’ll have to explain. I don’t think I deserve that comment about a prospect snob, but since I’ve had more than enough arguing for today (or for the next year), I won’t bother responding to that.
Bwahahaha
Fri Phil vs Beckett
Sat CC vs Clay
Sun Aj vs ?
What a bunch of lopsided matchups. Bosox have had a lot of home games.
GLove, I didn’t think you were referring to me; I was speaking about Gardner critics in general. I think it’s important to distinguish between those who seem to have a weird hate for him (if there are – I don’t know why anyone would hate a Yankee) and those who are simply skeptics.
How exactly are those lopsided matchups?
Lester goes on Sunday……..
I love Brett Gardner
the rest of you hated him
track star? superstar!
“I refuse to get drawn into this……..I just won’t do it, I’m sorry. I don’t need to explain why I want to see Gardner do it over a whole year before I go gaga over him. I think it’s sad that one can’t be skeptical about a player (me, actually since I’m the only one who gets questioned like this) without being called a hater.”
Betsy, I said I was genuinely asking, meaning I’m genuinely interested in your opinion, yet you choose to be defensive about your right to skeptical about him.
Worse, you could have simply ignored a perfectly innocuous question. Yet you choose to draw a meta-line over it.
And I’ve been asking skeptics for months what would Brett Gardner have to do to be regarded as an acceptable starter, not to argue with them (I’m on record saying I won’t be greatly surprised if he bombs or succeeds), you were simply the most recent person I asked, because I was attempting a discussion with you on a discussion forum.
Don’t believe me, ask around. I’m the patent-holder on the “what would Gardner have to do to make you want to pass on Carl Crawford” debate.
Betsy,
You’ve stated many, many times, “I just don’t like Brett Gardner”. To the point that people called you out on it. You’ve changed your position and that’s good.
As for the prospect snob, I was teasing you. But I am serious about how you look at certain players.
I can’t recall who exactly it was, but that player was the topic. And your response is something along the lines that that player didn’t deserve what was being said because he wasn’t as big a prospect as Hughes. Even though that player was producing in the majors now.
Just generalizing, but it seems like you put great importance on what kind of prospect a player was while I’m on the other end of the spectrum which is what you do now is important.
M, I said I never liked him as a player (not a person) and I’m still skeptical. As I said, I’m not waiting for him to fail, I just want to see more and, frankly, I see nothing wrong with that.
I never said anything like what you claimed I said, I’m sorry – I just didn’t. Your last comment is just not true; you’re saying that because I’m not high on Gardner and I don’t think that’s fair.
Betsy,
Being skeptical is totally fine. I’m completely skeptical about what Mitre can do as a substitute starting pitcher. I honestly don’t have a ton of faith in him going through a lineup more than once.
There’s a big difference between being skeptical and being closed minded.
If you love this team, you want Bret Gardner to succeed.
During the off season up until now, there were a lot of people who posted on this blog who didn’t want Bret to succeed at all because they were Melky lovers or because they felt people supported Bret because of his racial makeup.
The only thing I looked at was the guy hit .270 last season. I didn’t think it was out of the realm of possibility that he would improve upon that with more playing time. If he hits to that average and gets on base in the mid .300′s, he’ll steal between 50-70 bases and generate a ton of runs, not to mention keep Jeter out of the GIDP (when batting 9th).
I can’t compare him to anyone really. I saw Bret Butler play when I was a kid. Butler had more bat control than Brett does. He seemed to be able to put the ball where he wanted to on the field.
I also find it interesting that players like Gardner disappeared during the PED years. Perhaps there’s a reason why he’s doing well now when guys are off the sauce.
And I didn’t ask why he needs to go it over a whole year. I AGREE he needs to do it over a whole year.
*I* think if he gets on base 35% of the time, scores 90+ runs (paces he’s miles ahead of), makes pitchers work both in the box and on the bases, does the little things like move runners, smart baserunning, and plays + defense, then I think he’s a solid starter.
I’m interested in what others think he needs to do. If you want to be treated like everyone else, well, that’s what I’m doing right now…
Again, what do you not like about him as a player? You said it in nearly every post in the offseason/spring training, where it got to the point it was clear you did not like him (as a player).
That’s why people bug you about it. You left little doubt what your feelings were.
I won’t invite others into the discussion because I’m quite sure I remember it correctly. But if people remember it differently I’d appreciate being corrected.
I don’t care what you think and what you say. But I don’t know why you had to repeat that you didn’t like a player over and over so many times.
The Brett Gardner meme
is there even such a thing?
sounds very meta
This 19-8 start by the yankees is even more important now with all the injuries starting to creep up.
Imagine if they were 14-13 right now this blog would go insane.
stuckey,
I think Brett needs to hit .280 or higher and have a .340 or above on base percentage to make the Yankees believe in him as a full time starter. I think at those numbers he will probably be close to leading the league in stolen bases and score a ton of runs in the 9 spot.
Do I think the Yankees pass on Crawford if Brett reaches those numbers?
Probably not.
But they could sign Crawford and move Swisher to DH next year and throw out an OF of Crawford, Granderson and Gardner which would be a literal Death Valley to opposing offenses. Although, I don’t know who would play RF in that scenario.
If Gardner exceeds those numbers I stated above, I think they Yankees will think long and hard about just signing a guy like Cliff Lee and going with Swish, Grandy and Brett and passing on Crawford.
I’m so tired, I’m feeling so upset
Although I’m so tired I’ll have another cigarette
And curse Sir Walter Raleigh
He was such a stupid get.
You know I’d give you everything I’ve got
for a little peace of mind
now its time to say goodnight
Nick, I’m currently wearing a Hog Island Oyster Co. t-shirt.
Ever been?
GLove, of course I agree – anyone rooting against Gardner is not a real fan of the team. I think taking a wait and see attitude is healthy, to be honest. I’ve been very pleasantly surprised by Gardner; if he can keep it up, I will be more than glad to admit I was wrong.
I don’t worship speed at all, but it is exciting. I was never someone who was drawn in by the HR – HRs just don’t do that much for me. Therefore, I’d be perfectly happy to see players develop who can do more than just hit a baseball to the moon.
stuckey, this is no lie, I was there tonight. At the branch in the Embarcadero Ferry building.
Except I got there at 8:15 and sat at the counter and then the girl told me they’d been closed for 15 minutes. Sad thoughts.
But that’s a pretty odd coincidence.
M, I NEVER said that a player’s minor league career was more important than his major league career – not once. You can’t even remember the details, but you’re going to accuse me of being offended because someone was compared to Phil? That doesn’t even make any sense.
Betsy,
Be honest, how many times have you said, “But (player x) was never the kind of prospect Hughes was”?
I may have misremembered the whole thing.
I’ll drop it and never bring it up again.
Nick, if I tell you the lengths I went to do get their grill cheese, you’d wouldn’t believe it.
They ran out of cheese one day, so my friends and I settled for the raw bat, but engineered our whole next day to return, and we were only in the city for 3 days.
It inspired the concrete countertops current in my renovated kitchen too
Here you go, stuckey:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9.....583536754/
Taken this evening and on an empty stomach.
m,
I can answer this, then it’s off to bed.
Betsy has lamented that some fans weren’t regarding Hughes highly enough as a prospect and giving him the benefit of the doubt he warranted.
I suggested she was always very dismissive of Brett Gardner and it was curious to see someone advocate tolerance and regard for one player yet dismiss another.
She countered that Gardner was never as highly regarded a prospect as Hughes.
I have a very good memory about such things..
Thanks Nick!
Night.
Stuckey, you are so far off base, but you’re in bed by now and I have no interest in discussing this with you tomorrow. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, so good for you.
M, I have no personal dislike of Gardner. I just didn’t think he was a good hitter. I also thought his D was overrated and that he was tenative on the basepaths. I have no idea what my opinion of Gardner has to do with my opinion of Phil. I hope Gardner succeeds because it’s good for the Yanks if he does.
M, I only fuzzy memories of a possible conversation we may have had, but regardless, I just know that I never would have said that a player’s ML career was more important than his major league one. Frankly, I don’t know how Phil came up; we have not, on this board, really had any conversations in which we compared him to other young pitchers.
Oh, never mind – I’ll answer.
First of all, Stuckey, if you don’t think people jumped off Phil’s bandwagon afer he got hurt in 2007, then I don’t know what to tell you. Um yeah, I was lamenting the fact that people lost faith in him (lost faith? heck, they trashed him); most of those people are now back on his bandwagon oddly enough – how convenient for them.
I have always said that Phil was going to be an ace, always. I have never been high on Gardner – not because he wasn’t the prospect Phil was, but because I was not impressed with what I saw from him in the majors. If that’s not good enough for you, well too bad. I’m taking a wait and see on Brett.
# Betsy – Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) May 5th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
28. Phil Hughes, who came into spring allegedly in competition with the likes of Sergio Mitre (plus Joba Chamberlain, Chad Gaudin and Alfredo Aceves) for a starting slot, has a 0.88 WHIP to go with his 3-0 record and 1.44 ERA.
29. Ian Kennedy, once closely associated with Hughes when the two were Yankees prospects, is almost as good. He’s 2-1 and the supposed soft tosser has 30 strikeouts for the Diamondbacks
****
Since when was Ian Kennedy ever considered anywhere close to the prospect Phil was?
============================================================
2008 prospect list: http://www.baseballprospectus......cleid=7092
Phil must not have been ranked this year, but Joba’s #4 and Kennedy was #34. Obviously Phil would’ve been nearer to Joba than IPK. But anyway, the SI ranking said they were closely associated, not closely ranked.
hmmmmmmmm.
33 minutes.
Took you 8 minutes to calculate that?
No, it took about 4 seconds to do the calculation.
I got some peach ice cream in between.
RE: Gwynn
I have been one who has sometimes compared Gardner’s SWING to Gwynn’s. Not in any way did I ever compare careers or skills.
I was lucky enough to watch Gwynn hit a lot. He was never very fast nor was he a power hitter(especially early in his career). He would rarely pull the ball. everything was to the opposite field or up the middle. At times this year, I have seen Gardner wait on the ball and slap it to the left side. His swing and approach at that time, very much reminds me of Gwynn’s swing. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if Gardner has watched film of Gwynn’s swing.
Interesting discussion last night.
Gardner just needs to keep doing what he’s doing and he can have significant value to this team and help it win.
It really is pretty amazing that the Mariners thought they could win with two good starters, a solid defense, and virtually no offense. That doesn’t work, especially in the AL it doesn’t work. As someone said last night….cliff lee will be on the trade block in a couple months most likely.
If Cliff Lee is on the trading block do the Yankees get involved? I don’t see that unless Pettittte is more seriously injured than anyone knows or Vazquez keeps struggling. Even then, I don’t think they will be willing to give up what it would take.
If Lee becomes available, my guess would be they would wait him out like they did with CC…unless a glaring need for a starter should arise.
If Lee is on the trading block, I don’t see the Yankees getting involved. If you look at how they’ve operated over the past couple of years, it would be slightly out of character. I don’t know that they put him at the same level as Haliday. Isn’t Lee kind of bent on being a free agent? How willing would he be to work out an extension if he is traded? What kind of terms would he be looking for? Would the Mariners allow that negotiation window? What would Seattle be looking for? The price gets awfully high when you’re talking players (to a team) for a 2-3 month situation PLUS money (to the player) if he agrees to work out a long-term deal.
The best thing to workout of it for the Yankees is obviously if Seattle doesn’t trade him; but if they do, that Lee doesn’t agree to an extension and goes to free agency anyway. That’s if the Yankees really want Lee in the first place.
The Yankees won’t pay twice for an upcoming FA.
They woukd just wait until he hits the open market.
Re: Gardner, if there is one thing I’ve learned on this blog over the years is that fans go WAY overboard when it comes to homegrown products.
They oversell and overhype them so much, no player short of Arod and Pujols could live up to the hype.
You don’t get extra wins tacked onto your total if a homegrown guy rather than a FA is playing for you.
Why not just enjoy what he’s bringing to the table instead of speaking in extremes about the guy?
He neither has to be a HOF talent or discounted completely.
He may just be a good player who is helping the team win games right now.
Nothing wrong with that.
The Yankees won’t trade for Lee – it would kill their farm system and it’s already been touched up enough recently with trades.
Doreen,
I agree..it seems like Lee is pretty set on becoming a free agent so if he is traded it would likely just be as a rental for a contender. Don’t think the Yanks would get involved, as you said they just haven’t operated like that recently.
I can’t see the yankees paying big money and big talent for the same player. If they go for a big money contract, I would think that it’s strictly as a salary dump with minmal talent going the other way. Cashman has pretty much stopped the practice of picking up big contract rentals for big minor league talent.
Other than moving Jackson, the farm system was only scratched this past winter. what they moved, they have duplicate talents to replace them.
They won’t trade for Lee but, their farm system is fine.
They have more catching talent than anybody in the game.
They have some decent back end arms and possible bullpen arms in AAA.
Nunez is a legitimate SS prospect.
They have a bunch of talented arms in the lower minors such as Jose A. Ramirez, who will end the season as one of the best pitching prospects in baseball, IMO.
They have enough depth and quality in the system leading up to the draft to fill their needs.
GB, not quite. I don’t think they have anyone as close to being MLB ready as IPK or Jackson. Dunn is a mediocrity, so I’m sure they have someone to replace him. The Yankees just have few real talents at the upper levels of their farm system except for Montero and Romine and I would not feel comfortable with them making any trades that would further deplete those levels. I don’t believe they’d have the pieces to get Lee even if Cash were to totally change his philosophy, which I don’t think he’d do. I’m not even sure I want Lee as a FA, nevermind as part of a trade.e
Boy the Yankees have lots of guys hurt right now, but they just keep on winning.
It sounds like Andy will miss a start or 2 which is something to be expected when you have a 38 year old taking the ball every 5th day. Let’s be happy it’s not worse than it is.
Mo will be back on Friday and Posada soon after. Granderson is still 3-4 weeks away though so let’s hope Gardy stays hot.
The Yankee just need to play .500 on the road and win 2/3 at home to make the playoffs. The season is going vary well so far, but it’s too long not to have a few bumps in the road…
I read though some of the post and I don’t see why the Yankees need to make any trades at this point. If they get JV going they can weather this thing with Andy just fine…
The young catchers (outside Montero and Romine) are way too far away for any team to give up anything for.
The only place I’ve heard good things about Nunez is here, to be honest; he’s not someone that appears to highly regarded as a future MLB SS.
I don’t think the Yankees would trade Ramirez and, frankly, they need to start holding on to some of their young pitchers (even if they aren’t all that great).
Since any decent bullpen arm is just going to eventually become an unreliable major leaguer (based on comments here that relievers are just up and down on a year to year basis), I’m fine with trading them.
Once Eduardo Nunez cleans up his footwork at shortstop, he’ll be in NYY, probably to repplace Pena. He’s got speed, very good line drive gap power and will turn a good fastball around and lose it. He just needs a good infield coach to fix the footwork and he’ll be a very good to exceptional defensive player. AAA has a couple of other possible role players for NYY or to be moved in a trade in Curtis and Miranda. Montero is in another zip code. AA has a couple of outfielder/infielder types along with Laird and Romine. Brewer plays 3 outfield spots and 1st base and has speed and can develop a little more power. NYY isn’t exactly dead on the farm.
Gardner reminds me of Mickey Rivers or more recently Crwaford, in that when he gets on he is almost a guaranteed SB. Wait until he learns to read pitchers’ moves. Maybe next ST they can get Rickey to work with him.
Lee trade talk already?
Boy Zduriencik went from genius to dunce in about 20 minutes.
And he’s probably neither.
By the end of the month, I look for the Yanks to move Jack Rye, another 3 position outfielder to trenton to see if he’s for real or just good because he’s older than the competition. He’s hitting .397 right now with good speed, but not showing much power.
Betsy,
Montero will be in the majors next year. Romine in 2011.
If the Yankees put those guys on the market, they would get bigtime offers for both guys.
They are both upper level prospects in the eyes of every talent evaluator in the game.
GB7
Thanks for all your updates on the players for the Yanks down on the farm. Sounds like Nunez may be, dare I say a Jeter type hitter. Gap power who can hit for some power.
I was referring to the other catchers; I don’t see the Yankees trading Montero or Romine (yet – or hopefully not at all).
SJ, Any likelihood that at some point, Cervelli, Montero and Romine are all NYY at the same time? If they are developed to be somewhat versatile, they could all share the catching duties, plus play a little corner OF/ DH. One of them would emerge as the #1 catcher but the other 2 could possibly help the team in other ways. Or is it ineveitable that 1 gets traded somewhere down the road?
Nunez is probably more of a pull hitter than Jeter, but, yeah, that kind of hitter…or, maybe a Jason Bartlett of 2009 type hitter.
“Certain posters have made it their mission to constantly put Bret Gardner down during the off season, the spring and the opening weeks of this season.”
Certain posters made it their mission to put down Robinson Cano constantly. Irrationally ranting about him nearly daily.
Can we say hypocritical much?
SJ44 May 6th, 2010 at 8:39 am
Betsy,
Montero will be in the majors next year. Romine in 2011.
If the Yankees put those guys on the market, they would get bigtime offers for both guys.
They are both upper level prospects in the eyes of every talent evaluator in the game.
Except for Keith Law!! Sorry I couldn’t help myself! Always great to hear your thoughts SJ!
Milton Bradley, with the bases loaded in the sixth, was called out looking . He went off on the ump, was told to cool it, he (Bradley) packed his things and left the game. That’s what’s ailing the Mariners, Bradley being Bradley. Gm Zurdiencik is trying to smooth things over with the press.
http://www.mynorthwest.com ESPN’S Brock & Salk, Bradley left team mid game
He is one headcase!!
Romine is a good bet to learn other positions as is Cervelli. Montero is probably more restricted to catcher/DH/1B and could possibly fill in at the short outfield spots, like RF at YS or left in Fenway and Baltimore. I’d think that NYY will still have guys like Mitch Abeita in Tampa, Kyle Higashioka in Charleston and Jeff Farnham catching in the low minors to see what they’ll do. Sanchez and Murphy are to far in the future to worry about.
raymagnetic May 6th, 2010 at 8:47 am
I never thought of Gardner as a hitter. I still have trouble believing it, but I will take what he is doing & appreciate it.
I have always said Cano was terrific!! I specifically was against the trade Cano mentality that was prevalent before last year and even was against it when Kemp was discussed and Hudson was still a FA.
What I’m saying is we all have opinions and no one is always right. Some like SJ, CB, GB, & Randy are right more than most. LOL!
Enjoyed reading the Brett Gardner comments from earlier this morning. I’m glad he is getting the chance to play everyday so the Yanks get to see what he can do. As far as comparisons go Mickey Rivers and Brett Butler are good, but what is wrong with comparing him to Juan Pierre. The guy has had 200 or more hits 4 times and close to it a couple of more. Career .299 ba and .347 obp. I think Brett is faster and a better fielder. Because Pierre doesn’t hit for power I think he is really over looked. Brett Gardner a faster version of Juan Pierre, I’ll take it.
RayVT,
I agree with everything you just said.
I think Gardner has better OBP skills than Pierre as far as generating walks.
RayVT May 6th, 2010 at 8:53 am
raymagnetic May 6th, 2010 at 8:47 am
I never thought of Gardner as a hitter. I still have trouble believing it, but I will take what he is doing & appreciate it.
I have always said Cano was terrific!! I specifically was against the trade Cano mentality that was prevalent before last year and even was against it when Kemp was discussed and Hudson was still a FA.
What I’m saying is we all have opinions and no one is always right. Some like SJ, CB, GB, & Randy are right more than most. LOL!
———————————————————————————————————————-
Can’t speak for the others, but, as for me, when you’re too lazy to go out and find a job, you have nothing better to do than watch baseball games. also, you’ll notice that I only tout the talents of sure things…like Seth Fortenberry, Mitch Hilligoss, etc.
Man, did i ever miss on those two. LMAO.
I doubt you would ever see Montero, Romine and Cervelli on the roster at the same time unless there was a position change for one of them.
Could it happen? Sure but, doubtful.
The value for guys like Romine and Montero is to remain as catchers. That’s where their maximum value as players (whether it be to the Yankees or in trade) lies.
Once you start moving guys, their value dips.
Right now, and remember, player evaluations are fluid, both Montero and Romine’s bat project higher than Cervelli’s.
Cervelli to me is the perfect backup catcher type of player. He doesn’t have a lot of power, is a good receiver when he remains quiet back there, decent (not great) thrower, and an improving gamecaller.
Montero, even if he never approaches Cervelli’s level defensively, has such an elite bat, he could carve out a 10+ year ML career if it projects out.
Romine may be the closest to combining the strengths of both Cervelli and Montero.
I had a chance to see Gary Sanchez recently and I will say he is one of the best catching prospects for his age I’ve ever seen.
My nephew is now one of the best catching prospects in baseball. He leads the FSL in OBP, OPS, doubles, and is in the Top 5 in batting, runs and RBI. His defense according to scouts, is already major league ready.
He wasn’t anywhere near as good as Gary Sanchez at Gary’s age. Not even close.
I was really impressed with what I saw of him in the time I observed him. He’s going to be fun to watch develop the next few years.
Also have t fst rising IF prospects in David Adams and Corban Joseph wo are off to great starts in AA and Hgh A respectively. Also, 3B Brad Suttle is doing well at Tampa fter having missed all of last season afte shoulder surgery.
Talking about prospects – here is a partial list of the pitchers traded in the offseason or injured:
Vizcaino
Dunn
Coke
Garcia
Betances
Banuelos
Bryan Mitchell
Kontos
Brett Marshall
Half of the other teams would kill to have a farm system with these guys only. The Yanks are fortunate that they still have a bunch of guys that are legit prospects despite the above list.
Can’t wait to see some Betances, Banuelos, etc back in a couple of months.
SJ – Thanks for the news on Sanchez. Nice that the hype is actually deserved (although amazingly early on).
Corbin Joseph has shown that he has a veru good bat, but, right now, he’s a bit of a butcher at 2nd base. David Adams is very good at most thingsm from defense to hitting to base running. He also knows how to play baseball, so, it’s not just talent that he gets by on.
Suttle is no 3rd baseman, and not much at 2st, either. He can hit a bit, though.
SJ44,
Have you seen Murphy recently?
Yanks should give Andy as much time off as he needs, maybe 2 starts, especially if things go well and we don’t lose ground in the standings (fingers crossed) playing Boston and detroit, there will be no need to rush him back. Ugh. I just looked at the May schedule, gosh – after Detroit, here comes Minnesota, Boston, and Tampa into the stadium. What a schedule !
GB7,
Have you seen Suttle play 3rd this year?
The Yankees really fanned on Carmen Angelini. He’ll be at Staten Island for the 2nd year, still trying to hit above .200 and figuring out what that leather thing on his hand is used for. Justin Snyder is in about the same shape.
Halladay goes for game win #6 this afternoon. Pujols is 0-4 against him, should be good. The NL won’t know what hit them this year!!
Banuelos is recovering rom an appendectomy. SHould be back in a month. Betances is ack throwingoff a ful mound. Could get into games by the end of May. Didn’t know Bryan Mitchell was hurt. What happened to him?
GreenBeret7 May 6th, 2010 at 9:02 am
I touted Hensley Meulens! LOL!
haven’t seen him this year, but, judging by the numbers, he still hasn’t improved since I saw him in Charleston.
RayVT May 6th, 2010 at 9:18 am
GreenBeret7 May 6th, 2010 at 9:02 am
I touted Hensley Meulens! LOL!
———————————————————————————————————————-
I can top that with Tony Solita, Steve Whittaker and Roger Repoz.
GB
Suttle missed basically the last 2 seasons becuase of a serious shoulder injury. I’d say he is doing pretty well considering all the time he has missed.
Swisher is going to be on ESPN2 First Take this morning.
For those of you intrested Nick Swisher is going to be on First Take 10-12 on ESPN 2.
Craw,
I have not seen Murphy. I know Jim Morris, the baseball coach at the University of Miami, where Murphy was going to go if he went to college, loved him.
I haven’t had the chance though to see him play at this point. I hope to at some point in the season.
It’s really too bad Banuelos is missing a good chunk of the season, but at 19, I guess he has plenty of time.
GB
How bout Jerry Kenney, John Ellis and Charlie Spikes?
Yeah, I would give Suttle a break too and will wait to see how he does during the second half of this season.
SJ,
Thanks for the comments about Murphy.
Just a quick note on Andy Pettitte’s career. If he has a season with at least a .500 record, he’ll be the only pitcher in history with 16 straight seasons to open his career without a losing season. He’s tied with Cy Young and Tom Seaver with the only 15 year such streak. Pretty impressive.
Regarding Petttitte, I don’t see him pitching until either May 15th or May 19th. Because pitching either of those two dates will allow him to miss the Mets series at Citifield and I wouldn’t think the Yankees would want him to swing a bat with his recent elbow inflammation.
All this prospect talk and GGBG talk is dizzying but great.
Got to get in my plug for Adam Warren.
pat May 6th, 2010 at 9:25 am
Swisher is going to be on ESPN2 First Take this morning.
*************************
Darn-I wish I would have known. I would have set my DVR.
JohnC May 6th, 2010 at 9:25 am
GB
Suttle missed basically the last 2 seasons becuase of a serious shoulder injury. I’d say he is doing pretty well considering all the time he has missed.
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Makes no difference…he still can’t play 3rd base worth a damned. He’s a .931 career fielder.
Didn’ t the Yanks have 2 Deons on their team at 1 time ? Dion James and neon Deon Sanders ? Those were some bad teams…
Here are my pictures from yesterday’s River Dogs Game.
http://web.mac.com/vanessaclai.....hotos.html
GreenBeret7 May 6th, 2010 at 9:20 am
Uncle!! LOL! You win!
Saw on Pinstripesplus that Mitchell was hurt. Not sure what.
GB – From what I have seen elsewhere Suttle is a very good defensive third baseman – with (before the surgeries) a very good arm.
Bill Madden really mailed one in this morning.
His message? The Yanks are vulnerable without Mariano.
Thanks Bill.
I don’t read Madden anymore- haven’t in years. Everyone on the Daily News is a joke. On their show on SNY, it was like pulling teeth to admit that perhaps the non-trade for Santana may yet prove to work out. They actually debated whether Cashman was a good GM and whether he could win without a huge payroll; this was after they graciously decided that it MAY be too early to judge these deals.
C’mon Jeers, give Bill a break.
Its probably the first time he ever thought of something so obvious.
Its funny, I had the same reaction to the story.
The Yankees are vulnerable without Mo? Really? I had not idea! lol
5 Iron, they must have last seen Suttle playing 3rd base in college at UT, because 22 errors in 320 chances is bad, regardless of the level. he came out of Texas with a big bat/big glove reputation. Right now, he’s struggling in Tampa as a 24 year old.
As a professional player, Suttle has played 112 games at 3rd, I think it’s a bit premature to say he can’t play the position. Also, going by fielding percentage to judge a fielder isn’t something I would do.
Also, does that mean every team is vulnerable? No one else has Mariano -so, either they are vulnerable because they don’t have him or they are better off than the Yankees because, not having a Mo, they never have to lose him.
“Cervelli to me is the perfect backup catcher type of player. He doesn’t have a lot of power, is a good receiver when he remains quiet back there, decent (not great) thrower, and an improving gamecaller.”
sj44-
that perfectly sums up my judgement of cervelli except that it is possible he may be a better hitter than he shows simply because he hasn’t had enough pro at bats for whatever reason to absolutely know his ceiling.
why he has had so few pro at bats is still a mystery to me.
If the Yankees are vulnerable without Mo, then in essence you’re saying that the pen without him stinks because no one else has Mo and I don’t see articles being written that they are vulnerable.
Bronx Jeers May 6th, 2010 at 9:38 am
Bill Madden really mailed one in this morning.
His message? The Yanks are vulnerable without Mariano.
Thanks Bill.
********************
Nothing gets by him, does it?
Suttle’s arm is pretty good. It’s his hands. When he played third base for Charleston, only Edward Scissorhands would have been worse.
Randy is right, Cervelli didn’t have a lot of at-bats during his minor league career.
So what’s up with Drob?
Rust from little appearances, scouting reports growing on him, just a slump?
What to do. Let him work through it? Send him down to work it out?
Crawdaddy May 6th, 2010 at 9:43 am
As a professional player, Suttle has played 112 games at 3rd, I think it’s a bit premature to say he can’t play the position. Also, going by fielding percentage to judge a fielder isn’t something I would do.
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Perhaps you can explain where 22 errors in 320 chances would be misleading?
Like I stated, I want to see Suttle play a lot more professional baseball before I conclude he can’t play the 3rd base position.
GB
Read the scouting report here on Suttle, particularly the paragraph on his defense, and think again.
http://www.yankeesdaily.com/?p=11774
Randy l -
How much time did Cervelli miss due to that injury he suffered in ST at the hands of the DEVIL Rays?
Randy/SJ, would you put Cervelli in the Mike Redmond category?
“Perhaps you can explain where 22 errors in 320 chances would be misleading?”
Because I don’t know what type of errors they are, particularly this season’s four errors versus the ones he committed in 2008. I have no problem with you thinking he’s a bad fielder, but I’m not there yet for reasons already stated.
GB-
“Perhaps you can explain where 22 errors in 320 chances would be misleading?”
So I guess you are saying there is nothing subtle about suttle’s glove.
“First of all, Stuckey, if you don’t think people jumped off Phil’s bandwagon afer he got hurt in 2007, then I don’t know what to tell you.”
I’m at a loss as to why you think I said anything about Phil Hughes. I simply described to “m” a particular exchange we had involving Hughes/Gardner, which btw, I described perfectly accurately.
“Um yeah, I was lamenting the fact that people lost faith in him (lost faith? heck, they trashed him);”
Which is precisely what I described.
“I have always said that Phil was going to be an ace, always. I have never been high on Gardner – not because he wasn’t the prospect Phil was, but because I was not impressed with what I saw from him in the majors.”
I didn’t claim otherwise. I once asked you why you asked fans to give Hughes the benefit of the doubt when you have Gardner none, and you replied that Gardner was never as highly regarded a prospect as Hughes.
It happened exactly as I described it. To argue it is pointless.
“If that’s not good enough for you, well too bad. I’m taking a wait and see on Brett.”
Betsy, this is the part that you genuinely have difficulty with – I don’t care that you’re taking “wait and see” on Gardner. I am too, as it so happens. I’m just more “optimistic” about his chances of answer our questions in the affirmative, which as you often put it, is no better or worse a view.
That said, I KNOW what he has to do in order for MY questions to be answered. I’m genuinely curious what he needs to do specifically to answer yours. I attempted to have a baseball discussion about a Yankee baseball player with you.
If you’re interpreted this as me criticizing you for being skeptical of Brett Gardner, or campaigning to have you admit right now that’s he’s fantastic, you couldn’t be more wrong.
I was interested in what YOUR criteria is for him, because I’m the curious sort and why I ask people a lot of questions.
If you can’t get out of your own way to see that, that’s not my fault.
It would be great to see a feature on the Yankee’s medical department. This was brought to mind by Granderson’s saying he was going to the stadium for treatment. Are the facilities there better (or even equal) to other rehab places. I understand the trainers have great experience with baseball injuries (and access to specialists), but is there room (and do they have) all the specialized equipment that is available?
“Randy is right”
Don’t you know it’s not a good idea to feed the beast?
P
I think a Redmond comparison is accurate. Although, I think Cervelli has a chance to be better defensively than Redmond.
He lost some time in the minors when they were having him switch hit for awhile.
IIRC, when I first saw him in Tampa, he was switch hitting.
I like what he brings to the team. I think he is very effective in the role he is in right now.
I don’t think his ceiling is as high as Montero’s or Romine’s because of his bat.
Even if he maxes out as a hitter, I don’t think he will be as good a hitter as either Montero or Romine. Those guys have pretty special bats for young catchers.
David,
It’s a state of the art facility in which much focus was placed on the training and rehab facilities. They even have a pool in which a player can exercise in it and they can observe the player doing water exercises while being beneath the player.
Doreen
When to you start your job as a Yankee scout?
It sounds like you had a good time.
Maine, I don’t know who wrote that, but, Randy’s going to be insufferable. I suppose hearing that for the first time in his lfe, he deserves to enjoy the moment.
The new stadiums facilities are the best in baseball. No stadium has anything close to the facilities for the players the new Yankee Stadium possesses.
The treatment area is huge. pools, whirlpools, treatment rooms, all state of the art.
Its better than some rehab centers in other markets.
I don’t care what that report says. I’ve seen him play and he a defensive butcher. Those reports are almost 3 years old
David
Go back and look at some of last years stories on the new stadium. The workout/rehab facilities that they spoke about were incredible.
Crawdaddy May 6th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Randy is right, Cervelli didn?t have a lot of at-bats during his minor league career.
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GB7
You can thank Crawdaddy.
Hey, this is one of the rare times I agree with Randy so I didn’t create that monster.:)
This whole thing is dumb. M accused me of saying something I never did and I described last night what I said. I still stand by what I said. If you don’t think teams give more leeway to talented, highly regarded prospects than they do to others then we’ll just have to disagree. I already explained that I didn’t think Gardner is that good; I’m allowed to have that opinion, just as I’m allowed to think that people gave up on Phil way too soon. I think we are just going to have to drop this because we’re not getting anywhere.
I do not have any numbers in mind for Gardner…..and frankly what’s the difference? I’m not sitting around waiting for him to fail.
I used to read The Daily News for years but stopped after discovering this site. Between the games, coverage and all the voices in here, the papers become redundant. Plus it’s 50$ a year in my pocket. That’s an extra Yankee ticket per season! (terrace level)
But personally I don’t have a problem with anybody writing an unpopular opinion. If you don’t agree? Fine, figure out why and formulate your own opinion. It’s good for the mind.
Suttle isn’t a good defensive player. That’s the difficulty as to where he fits in the organization.
Certainly his injuries have set him back.
However, even prior to his injuries, I saw him play enough to see that his hands aren’t that great.
I haven’t seen him play since his surgeries so, I don’t know if he has improved any.
However, the guy I saw play at Charleston didn’t strike me as a 3B prospect long term.
I don’t care what that report says. I’ve seen him play and he a defensive butcher. Those reports are almost 3 years old
That report was from Jan , 2010! And it says he was voted the best defensive 3rd baseman i the South Atlantic League that year,so I don’t know which Brad Suttle you were watching that year. I’ll go by the scouts word over yours
The Daily News writers just don’t like Cashman or the Yankees and their agenda colors everything they write. Again, are other teams vulnerable because they don’t have Mariano?
What a lineup they field: Madden, Lupica, Harper, Feinsand.
Even if he is a 3rd baseman, he’s got no future with this team; he’s not replacing Alex anytime soon.
MaineYankee May 6th, 2010 at 9:59 am
Crawdaddy May 6th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Randy is right, Cervelli didn?t have a lot of at-bats during his minor league career.
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GB7
You can thank Crawdaddy.
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so, that explains it. It was just a sarcastic remark to make a dig at Randy.
“Even if he is a 3rd baseman, he?s got no future with this team; he?s not replacing Alex anytime soon.”
I view every prospect as an asset whether he plays for the Yankees or he becomes a trading piece for Cashman.
You don’t look at prospects that way Betsy. The better the prospect, regardless of position, the more value he has to an organization.
Sports does not stay fluid. What if Alex suffers a career ending injury?
What if Suttle becomes a good enough propsect to secure a good player from another team in trade?
I think folks need to learn what a farm system means to the Yankees.
Its not about winning Baseball America awards.
Its about developing enough quality depth in it to spin some guys off in trades to help the parent club, while keeping others to play a role on the 25 man roster.
Its different from the Core Four + Bernie days 15+ years ago. The Yankees were rebuilding then and could offer “on the job” training to young guy.
Now, the pressure to win and fill seats makes it such that the system is being used in the ways I described above.
That means, regardless of position, the more good players they have in it, the better it is for them, regardless of whether or not their futures consist of staying in NY.
We are 19-8, with Arod & Tex off to slow starts, Javy tanking, Mo & Jorge out, and the bullpen giving up homeruns left and right. How good is this team? Real good. Plus it’s only the first week of May, and we’re one game out of a surging Tampa! Once everyone gets back healthy, and starts hitting this team will be unstoppable. My only wish is that the Angels are so far down the tank by the ASB, that they deal us back Matsui for the Post Run.
With no game what’s it gonna be today ?
Aliens on the dark side of the Moon.
Strange faces on the surface of Mars.
The Great press Conspiracy
Who really shot Kennedy
Why Cashman is a bad GM.
Or just why the Yankees can’t possibly compete with the Rays and Sox ?
GreenBeret7 May 6th, 2010 at 9:30 am
Just a quick note on Andy Pettitte’s career. If he has a season with at least a .500 record, he’ll be the only pitcher in history with 16 straight seasons to open his career without a losing season. He’s tied with Cy Young and Tom Seaver with the only 15 year such streak. Pretty impressive.
_________________________________________________________________________WOW. Well that brightened up my day a bit. Thanks GB7
SJ44,
I just hope we can spin a couple of those prospects off for a Zach Greinke.
Matsui looks horrible right now. He’s hitting under .250 and is rolling over everything.
Frankly, its a mistake for the Angels to play him in LF. That’s not going to help his knees and its not helping his hitting.
I thought of the irony yesterday of everyone going crazy over Andy’s injury yet, “conveinently” neglecting Damon going out of the lineup again with his persistent calf injury and Matsui’s deep slump.
You can only keep so many health risks on a team. In Matsui’s case, I think the Angels will soon pull the plug on him playing LF. Unless they want his knees to swell up like balloons.
any time, NYY
Ok, Craw- fair point.
You’re right, SJ. Well, I don’t know much about Suttle, but I hope he does well – for his sake, too. I never like to see someone’s dream fail.
Joe and Evan on WFAN are right; this is a big series for the Sox – they need to take 2/3. They are playing much better, though, and the Yankees have a very tough schedule ahead of them.
New Post: New Stadium a launching pad no more
“Rust from little appearances, scouting reports growing on him, just a slump?”
Going to do something rare for me, and provide some shade instead of sunlight, but one of the reason he was so effective last year was that (and he and the Yankees would be first to admit), he had an uptick in velocity that came somewhat outta nowhere.
If that’s not there this year, he’s going to have to adjust back to using the curve more frequently and REALLY have to exhibit better control with the fastball.
MTU, I’m attach a hinge on two Chevy hubcaps and join them together and ship them to Suttle. He can get his new glove repaired at any scrap yard.
For all you ladies that love baseball and those cake shows.
EPIC CAKE FAIL:
http://www.nbcwashington.com/n.....52779.html
SJ44,
The Angels were going to show the Yankees about Matsui, weren’t they? We knew the guy was done in the field years ago. Matsui has to get the outfield out of his mind, or those knees are going to snap like twigs.
Andy’s a pitcher, that’s the difference. Losing him is a blow to the rotation, especially when Javy is so messed up.
I just wonder how long the Rays pitchers are going to keep this up – or the Yankees top 4 for that matter.
SJ44
It supports the idea of letting a player go a yr. to soon. Although it seems the timing was just right.
Even though Damon was good for the time he was on the Yankees, they were fortunate to get through that contract without to much trouble health wise.
Any question raised about a Yankee player and people say inane things like that person hates the player. It certainly is appropriate to question whether a player has the ability to play well in the major leagues. Very few do.
I, for one, have questioned whether Gardner will hit. So far, so good. As I said at the time, I hope I am wrong. It certainly won’t be the first time. I presume all Yankee fans want all Yankee players to do well.
Likewise, newspapers don’t generally like or dislike a player or a front office person. They do want to write controversial stories because people read them. It’s about readership and not personal feelings for them.
GB-
“I’m attach a hinge on two Chevy hubcaps and join them together and ship them to Suttle. He can get his new glove repaired at any scrap yard.”
Yeah, and they’ll work better with the magnetic scissorhands you spoke about too.;)
Maine Yankee,
The reason Damon & Matsui were so good last year, is because Girardi nursed them through the season. But for some reason the Tigers & Angels didn’t pay attention.
While you guys are talking about a Yankee 3b prospect, it reminds me of one that was here in Columbus for 2 years. He may have endured the most booing of any minor leaguer ever. You had to be very alert sitting behind the first base bag when the ball was hit to him. The booing had nothing to do with his baseball skills though. Any idea who it was?
Mac, I’m with you. I have no trouble being wrong about Gardner or any player as long as it’s in the best direction. I only care about wins and titles. Who provides those is of no importance to me.
Texcetera May 6th, 2010 at 10:21 am
Maine Yankee,
The reason Damon & Matsui were so good last year, is because Girardi nursed them through the season. But for some reason the Tigers & Angels didn?t pay attention.
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It does seem odd that the Angels let Vlad and Lackey go and then sign Matsui.
A pitcher missing one or two starts isn’t a big deal.
You never have 5 guys going on all cylinders in any rotation.
Injuries happen to EVERY team. You suck it up, and get contributions from others.
That’s what winning teams, like the Yankees, have done for years.
They have survived worse than Andy’s minor injury and surivived and they will surivive this one.
Betsy – Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) May 6th, 2010 at 10:04 am
Even if he is a 3rd baseman, he?s got no future with this team; he?s not replacing Alex anytime soon.
I agree! I also would think Laird would be ahead of him too.
Eric Duncan’s issues as far as progressing had to have been as much a physical issue as mental. with a chronic back problem, he just had no flexibility. He couldn’t bend or twist. A real pity.
Drew Henson?
Betsy just wondering if you make breakfast for us men out here? Upstate Kate, Doreen, and Erin are all providers of some sort of nourishment. Have not heard from any of the other female posters on this issue. Erica, Trisha, Angel, M and other please check in. I’ll be scheduling a breakfast tour in the not to distant future. Doreen I’ll schedule you for a weekend, so no worries.
Good fortune,
C
can we please talk about how austin jackson is batting 369 and granderson is hitting 240 and on the dl.
Certainly, Bit -
AJax has an out-of this world BaBIP of over .500. He’s striking out like crazy, and not showing much in the way of power. The league will adjust to him, and his BaBIP and BA
will come back to reality. How far? Depends upon whether he adjusts back, and lowers
his whiff total, or adopts the deer-in-headlight look.
Grandy has a body of work to represent him, unless you feel he is done.
I don’t. Beware SSS [small sample size].