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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

Today in The Journal News

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Today in the Journal News on May 24, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Last night the Yankees wrapped up the Subway Series with their second straight loss, and today’s off day comes at a time when the team could use a chance to regroup. “This has been one of the tougher weeks on us during the course of the season,” manager Joe Girardi said. Rick Carpiniello has the story.

The notebook has a positive update on Javier Vazquez, plus items on Curtis Granderson and the Yankees bullpen.

Sam talked to CC Sabathia about pitchers in the batter’s box. Vazquez can vouch for the tricky nature of American League pitchers hitting, but most of them — including Sabathia — seem to enjoy it when given the opportunity.

My thanks to Carp and Sam for letting me more or less completely unplug yesterday. Enjoy today’s off day. Here on the blog, we’ll spend the day looking at what’s gone right and what’s gone wrong with the Yankees so far this season.





70 Responses to “Today in The Journal News”

  1. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) May 24th, 2010 at 9:48 am

    JK, 4 innings into the game is not “late” – that means he’s got no stamina. Late in the game would be the 7th inning………

  2. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) May 24th, 2010 at 9:49 am

    If he turns into a #2 after all this, that will be something of a disappointment, but I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

  3. pat May 24th, 2010 at 9:53 am

    YESKimJones By the way, Jeter’s double in the 9th was the 2800th hit of his career. That’s a nice round number, moving closer to a nicer round number.

  4. MTU (aka GBURL) May 24th, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Off topic:

    Well, to the dismay of some I have made it back.

    For those of you that enjoy this sort of thing I am posting a link to some photos from Navajo and Hopi country. Enjoy. :)

  5. JK May 24th, 2010 at 9:54 am


    Maybe Adams could be in LF, but right now he doesn’t have plus speed or plus power. He’s also going to be 23 soon (after 23 prospects lose a lot of value). I think he will eventually get traded.

  6. raymagnetic May 24th, 2010 at 9:57 am

    How would a number 2 homegrown pitcher be somewhat of a disappointment?

    Andy Pettitte has never been considered an ace yet he’s won nearly 240 games in his career. I think Hughes and the Yankees would take a Pettitte type of career any day.

    I think too much emphasis is made on the whole number 1/2/3 pitcher thing. A number two pitcher on the Ysnkees will win about 16 games a year, that’s disappointing? Smh

  7. SJ44 May 24th, 2010 at 9:59 am

    How can a pitcher becoming a #2 guy in a rotation be a “disappointment”?

    You really have to stop overhthinking this stuff.

    Evaluate Hughes at the end of the season when he has a full year of starting in the majors under his belt.

    Doing it from start to start, or pitch to pitch, isn’t the best way to do it.

  8. NYYROC May 24th, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Betsy, you are a passionate fan so you have worries. I understand that. But a baseball season, whether you are following a team or a favorite player, is a rollercoaster ride. There are thrills and anxiety! Sit back end enjoy. Hughes is good and will get better. Here’s another way of looking at it, aside from numbers and raw data: After very game he’s pitched the opposing players, manager etc. have commented about how good he is(regardless if he’s thrown 91 or 95 and regardless of his mix of pitches.) Even after the Mets game Pelfrey and Pagan complimented him.

  9. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) May 24th, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Ray, in comparison with what he was supposed to be. He was projected to be a #1, so if he doesn’t become that – yes it would be a disappointment.

  10. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) May 24th, 2010 at 10:03 am

    SJ, after all the talk of Phil becoming a top of the rotation starter- after all the hype – after what we saw earlier this year, when people were raving about him as being a pitcher you build a rotation around for years: are you saying that in a few years if he’s not a #1, that you wouldn’t be disappointed? I’m not talking about this year, I’m talking about down the line.

  11. SJ44 May 24th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    If Phil Hughes “only” becomes a #2 or #3 starter in his career, he will probably win over 150 ML games and make over 100 million dollars in his career.

    If that’s a “disappointment”, sign me up!

    I agree with Ray. Too much is made about where you slot pitchers.

    Just pitch well. The rest will take care of itself.

  12. web May 24th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but what’s with Gardner lately. Hitless in the Mets series and 1 for his last 18. Average below .300 for what seems like the first time this year. Please fix this Kevin Long.

  13. MTU (aka GBURL) May 24th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Starting in a few days the Yankees are entering a much more favorable portion of their schedule.

    And they will have a chance to feast.

    The offense will come around. Grandy will return soon to add some needed punch.

    The Starting rotation is one of the best in baseball and sooner or later they will perform like it once again.

    This tornado blew thru Yankeedom and it will pass, and soon.

    The did well just to tread water all things considered.

    It’s a long season. :)

  14. JK May 24th, 2010 at 10:05 am


    #2 pitchers makes 16M in MLB, how is that a disappointment?

    92.5 Price
    92.5 Halladay
    92.4 Hughes
    92.2 Davis
    91.8 Billingsley
    91.5 Pelfrey
    91.5 Peavy
    91.5 Carpenter
    91.3 Sheets
    91.3 Lincecum
    91.1 Cain

    A 91 mph avg. fastball is a plus fastball. Hughes avg fastball is 92.4 mph!

  15. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) May 24th, 2010 at 10:06 am

    NYYROC, I probably should make it clear. I have zero worries for this year because, after all, he’s our #5 starter and should be evaluated against other #5 starters. I’m not worried – I’m just thinking ahead. Isn’t that what we always do with youngsters? I’m not directing this to you, but not every post I make is fraught with worry. I’m analyzing things the way I know how.

  16. SJ44 May 24th, 2010 at 10:07 am


    You take worrying to a new level. You really do.

    There are less than 10 REAL aces in major league baseball today.

    That means, under your belief, everybody else is a disappointment at some level or another.

    You can’t project what Hughes will be from start to start. Which is what you are doing.

    Just relax and enjoy the games. The rest will take care of itself.

    There is nothing he has shown this year to predict he will be a “disappointment”.

    Even “aces” have bad nights. You deal with them and move on.

  17. Shame Spencer May 24th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Betsy, with all due respect I don’t know if Hughes being a #2 would be such a disappointment just because he was projected as something different. I mean, maybe this is apples and oranges, but Mo was projected to be a starter at some point in his minor league career yet I don’t think anyone would consider his being relegated to the pen as a disappointment. Hughes is still very, very young and has a LONG way to go before being anointed as an ace. Its probably best, as other people are suggesting, to just sit back and enjoy the ride. Watching this kid become something special (regardless of the #1 or 2 status) will be/has been a lot of fun and will only get more interesting as the stakes become higher. Remember, we still havent even seen how he’ll perform as a starter in the post season, which will probably really dictate how he is viewed by the fans and within the organization.

  18. Billy D May 24th, 2010 at 10:09 am

    “Ray, in comparison with what he was supposed to be. He was projected to be a #1, so if he doesn’t become that – yes it would be a disappointment.”

    If he’s pitching in Pittsburgh, he’s a one right now. You can’t get caught up on the whole 1/2/3 thing. It is generally pretty meaningless, except when you’re setting your playoff rotation. He may never be the #1 starter on this team, but the potential is there for him to pitch to the level of a front of the rotation guy. At almost 24 years old, he’s off to a pretty nice start in that direction.

  19. raymagnetic May 24th, 2010 at 10:09 am


    Not everyone considered Hughes as a number 1.

    Like SJ said, no one will be disappointed if Hughes is only a number 2 pitcher for his career.

  20. pat May 24th, 2010 at 10:09 am

    Some of the #2 pitchers on that list “disappointed” just enough to win a Cy Young. :wink:

  21. Shame Spencer May 24th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    (also, Betsy, I dont think you’re freaking out about this at all. I realize you’re just looking to the future in a hypothetical sense, I just threw in my 2 cents cause I hate my job :) )

  22. SJ44 May 24th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    I think one of your problems with understanding all this is your insistence of slotting these pitchers.

    Phil Hughes isn’t a #5 starter. He is a starting pitcher in the rotation.

    Once the season starts, there are no “slots”, per se.

    You pitch on your turn and you go get outs.

    Too much is made over slots in a rotation.

    Frankly, it dosen’t matter how it starts out. Your “ranking” will be based on how you pitch, not where you are slotted to start the season.

    For example, if the playoffs started tomorrow, do your really believe Phil Hughes wouldn’t get a start? He wouldn’t if he was the “#5 pitcher” in the rotation.

    He would probably start Game 2 if the playoffs started tomorrow.

    Don’t worry about the slots. Just hope he continues to pitch well.

  23. Wave Your Hat May 24th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    The Yankee start was a little misleading.

    People focus on Teix’s poor hitting, and ARod’s missing power, and Jeter’s and Granderson’s slumps, but we forget that Cano, Swisher, Gardner and Posada/Cervelli were carrying us offensively at rates of production that they could not sustain all season.

    Meanwhile, all the starters except Javy were pitching with Cy Young results, while they were striking people out at a rate below league average. For a team with CC, AJ, AP, JV and PH, that low strikeoput rate was an ominous sign.

    Now the injury bug has bit badly, Cano, Gardner and Cervelli are coming back to earth, Posada is out and the pitching results are more in line with current KO rates than historical results.

    Guys like Russo are nice but can’t plug those holes. No one in our AAA system can.

    That means bad times, which is what they are enduring right now. We are getting in a hole with the Rays, the Sox are now back in it with us, and their are teams luike the Tigers, Twins and Rays to keep things chancy with the wild card.

    The key will be how big a hole the Yanks will have dug themselves by the time they get their injured players back and our pitchers begin to again pitch to the level we know they can.

  24. GreenBeret7 May 24th, 2010 at 10:11 am

    JK May 24th, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Maybe he could be in LF, but right now he doesn’t have plus speed or plus power. He’s going to be 23 soon (after 23 prospects lose a lot of value). I think he will eventually get traded.


    What plus anything does Curtis have? He’s 25 years old, so now, he’s got limited value.

  25. Mark in Tampa May 24th, 2010 at 10:11 am

    This is not meant as a criticism, just an observation, but Brett Gardner has got to lead the league in getting thrown out at first by half a step.

    He teases you by nearly beating the throw on routine grounders to second or short, but then still gets thrown out by half a step on what seemed to be very difficult plays that you figure he would beat out easily.

  26. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) May 24th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    JK, I don’t care how much $$ they make. In general, of course being a #2 is not a disappointment, but he was projected to be an ace. Just a few weeks ago we’re talking about him dominating and being a future #1; I don’t see how if he turns out to be less it’s not even a minor disappointment.

  27. RMS May 24th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    “Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but what’s with Gardner lately”

    He is in a slump, like some other Yankee hitters.



    Hughes will be fine.

  28. austinmac May 24th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Hughes velocity did appear to be down in his last game. Lesser velocity means less ability to rely on one’s fastball. Why was it down? I don’t know, but I assume it was mechanical.

    Javy’s decreased velocity to me looks to be from opening up too soon casuing him to push the ball and leaving it high and outside. I think Joba essentially does the same thing at times, and that’s when he ends up off the mound to the first base side.

    Baseball is a long season. Two weeks ago many were talking of winning 110 games, and now they are terrible. It’s the same team with injuries. Time will tell if they are good enough. That’s why they play the season.

    The complaints that I always believe to be absurd is that a player has no guts, or doesn’t cares or is terrible. Thses are major league players. They would not be in the majors if any of these complaints were true. They are human and can press. I have never figured out why name calling, booing and suggesting players be released has any beneficial effect. It sure wouldn’t help me.

  29. Tom in N.J. May 24th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Betsy: Phil Hughes apostate?

  30. Steve May 24th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Need the presence of Granderson and Posada in the lineup. Slot Granderson in the No. 2 hole when he returns and bat Gardner 9th.

    Getting too close to Toronto for comfort and the Yankees have yet to see them until June 4-6.

  31. Shame Spencer May 24th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Betsy, maybe this is just the difference between being a Hughes fan and a Yankee fan? You love Phil, so to you and anyone else that has high hopes for the kid it would be disappointing, but for a casual Yanks fan I’m sure you’d hear no complaints.

  32. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) May 24th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Ok, well I guess I’m not making it clear that I’m not worried; I think it’s possible to have a conversation, is it not, without bringing that word up? I appreciate everyone’s input – thank you.

  33. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) May 24th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Shame, are you saying I’m not a Yankee fan? Let’s not even go there.

  34. RMS May 24th, 2010 at 10:19 am


    We will be expecting updates on Tony.

  35. Shame Spencer May 24th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    Uh, no thats not what I was implying at all. I just meant that some people get attached to certain players. I pointed out that “for a casual Yanks fan” Hughes wouldnt be viewed as a disappointment. I was trying to imply that everyone on this board is much more than a casual fan.

  36. Mark in Tampa May 24th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Through all these struggles, the Yanks are still tied for the second best record in the AL, and just a half game back for second best in all of baseball. Of course, the best record is 6 games in front in their division.

    They are still in fine shape, record-wise, as they exit the most difficult part of their schedule. Hopefully, the injury situation is finally straightening as well. I had felt that if they got through this coming Thursday still within 3 games of Tampa, they would be in great shape. That is still theoretically possible, but not likely.

    However, as disastrous as it seems right now, they are still OK. It is more that Tampa hasn’t flattened out yet, and they will, at some point. The ’98 Yankees had a small slump, so did the ’84 Tigers, in the second half. The key is to keep them in sight until they can right the ship, and the Rays are still in sight.

  37. RMS May 24th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    “Shame, are you saying I’m not a Yankee fan? Let’s not even go there.”

    You are a Yankee fan and a Phil lover.

  38. GreenBeret7 May 24th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Scranton game starts at 11:05 AM. Sanchez gets the start and Natale is playing 2nd base today with Corona playing 3rd. Montero is catching and batting clean-up. Granderson is DHing and batting 2nd.

  39. Tom in N.J. May 24th, 2010 at 10:22 am

    Betsy’s, a yankee fan, Shame.

    She, like others on this board, has adopted Hughes because she thinks he’s a good kid with a lot of talent. She just wants him to reach his potential.

  40. JK May 24th, 2010 at 10:23 am


    Curtis is a backup OF, Adams can be a starting 2B. I don’t think he can be a starting corner OF on a good team unless he hits for power.

  41. raymagnetic May 24th, 2010 at 10:24 am


    I think you’re worrying too much about Tampa running away from the Yankees. It’s way too early in the season for them to run away.

    The Yankee pitching staff is capable of going on a run at any time.

    As easy as it is to say the Rays will play .700 ball and run away, I can say the Yankees will win 10 in a row and gain 3 games on the Rays.

    The season isn’t even half way done. Nobody runs away with a division in May.

  42. blake May 24th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Some of us attempted to temper expectations of Hughes before the season started…saying that he would struggle some and not to go overboard if he did. Seems his great start negated all that in some people’s eyes. He’s 23 and in his first full season starting and has probably been the Yankees best starter this season (him or Andy)…I’m not sure what’s not to like about that. He has given the Yanks a chance to win every game he has pitched…even in the start against Boston he left with the lead.

  43. MTU (aka GBURL) May 24th, 2010 at 10:26 am

    After the way the Yankees have played lately I guess it should come as no surprise that some people are genuinely concerned and some have become pessimistic.

    But we have to realize that Murphy’s law took over in a big way in Yankeeland.

    It can happen to any team at any time.

    The Tornado is gone now and the aftermath is what remains.

    The pieces will be picked up and the team will regroup and utimately be stronger for having been tested.

    Good things are on the way IMO.

    Exchanging places with teams this early in the season means nothing.

    There are well over 100 games to be played.

    The Yankees are very capable of going on a real tear once all the pieces are back in place.

    You can count on that ! :)

  44. JM May 24th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    The Yankees play the Rays what? 12 more times? There is plenty of time to catch them and obviously they are going to come down to earth sometime soon. It will be interesting to see them against the Sox this week as they have had the Sox’ number for years. But the Sox are playing much better than they were when the Rays swept four from them at Fenway. Should be fun to watch.

  45. Shame Spencer May 24th, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Wow, ok, again, I never said anyone on this blog wasn’t a Yankees fan.. geez, I wish people would take the time to read what people write before responding.

    Some people are just more invested in prospects (people that are MORE than just casual fans) and can be more disappointed if they don’t live up to expectations whereas casual fans could care less if the guy slots at a #1 or #2.

  46. Bronx Born May 24th, 2010 at 10:28 am

    MTU – great shots.. Thanks for posting the link.

  47. blake May 24th, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Despite everything if the season ended today the Yankees would be in the postseason. That’s encouraging to me knowing that as injured as theh have been and as bad as they have played of late.

  48. JohnC May 24th, 2010 at 10:30 am

    One thing that annoys me about Gardner is he never seems willing to swing until he has 2 strikes on him. I know its his job to get on base but he takes too many hittable pitches and then when he’s down 2 strikes, he is forced to go into protect mode. Pitchers have started to realize this and are throwing him strikes early in the count. Bea little more agressive up there. Don’t always have to try and walk.

  49. MTU (aka GBURL) May 24th, 2010 at 10:30 am


    My pleasure. Glad you enjoyed them.

    Hope it takes some of the sad outta here. :)

  50. JK May 24th, 2010 at 10:30 am

    I’ll worry about Tampa after they have a few injuries (which are coming) and they get through the part of their schedule that isn’t filled with non playoff contenders.

  51. Bronx Born May 24th, 2010 at 10:32 am

    MTU – amazing shots. I find the houses cut into the mountain side to be incredible.

  52. whoever May 24th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Please stop talking sense to the queen of hyperbole Betsy.

    Why anyone would care what she says or even try to have an honest discussion with her must know it is a total waste of time. She has no rationale, just comments, comments, comments . . . . .

    She just banters on and on; she believes Phil is a number 2 is soooooo disappointing. Laughable if it were not such an ignorant statement.

    Anxiously awaiting your post with profanity telling me that you will ignore me and don’t care.

    I do ignore your posts, it is the numerous posts people have to make talking you off your make believe cliff or trying to talk common sense to you. It takes up so much time and space on the blog with your constant triviality.

    Ironically, like I just did.

  53. Billy D May 24th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    From Olney’s blog today:

    Among the previous AL teams with at least 32 wins in their first 44 games in the expansion era, all four teams made it to the playoffs. But only two went on to win the World Series. These are the best AL teams after 44 games since expansion in 1961:

    1984 Tigers: 36-8 (Won World Series)
    1998 Yankees: 34-10 (Won World Series)
    1995 Indians: 33-11 (Lost World Series)
    2010 Rays: 32-12 (?)
    2001 Mariners: 32-12 (Lost ALCS)

  54. miggs May 24th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Once again Betsy dominating and ruining a thread……

    At a time when we should be discussing how the Yankees can improve and make progress while waiting for their injured players to return, instead all the posters feel the need to respond to the insane babbling of one person.

    Oh my, Hughes may only be a “#2″ starter. What does that even mean? Is it important or at all relevant to the current state of the team? No its not.

  55. Betsy - Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) May 24th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Blake, and I was one of those people.

    Tom, that’s exactly it. Shame, I’m sorry – I should have known you didn’t mean it that way.

    I do think the SP will be fine; I don’t know about the pen and I’m shaky on the offense, but the SP will not be why we don’t win (if we don’t).

  56. MTU (aka GBURL) May 24th, 2010 at 10:37 am


    I think so too. What a priviledge to able to hike right up to a 700 year old civilization.

  57. Wave Your Hat May 24th, 2010 at 10:38 am


    I don’t dispute you could be right but I think the probabilities lie in the other direction right now.

    If you look at CC’s and AJ’s numbers, their strikeout rates are down and in CC’s case his home run rate is way up as well. Sure he could turn it around anytime but the fact remains that he (and AJ) needs turning around and that alone is worrisome.

    Plus, Jeter isn’t himself. Even Joe Morgan was noticing last night that the Captain is very slow in the field. I think there’s something the Yanks aren’t telling us, and that isn’t good.

    We are getting CG back soon, which presuming he doesn’t resume his slump where it left off, is good news, but Posada’s long absence is going to hurt, and even NJ was contributing despite his lack of hitting and Miranda/Thames will have to be good in the DH slot to exceed NJ’s wOBA of .334.

    Plus, the Rays could be even better than they are – Upton, Pena, Zobrist and Bartlett are all underperforming and don’t forget they have a couple of injuries too and a farm system capable of attracting a key trade if the Rays want to do so.

    On top of that, our cushion over the Sox is basically gone.

    So while I think the Yanks are still capable of winning it, we have to admit it will now be a dogfight, probably all the way.

  58. miggs May 24th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Whoever I understand exactly what you are saying.

    She’s destroying the blog post by agonizing post.

  59. Billy D May 24th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    “It will be interesting to see them against the Sox this week as they have had the Sox’ number for years.”

    I think it just seems that way:

    9-9 in 2009
    10-8 in 2008

    From 2004-2007 – 25-50

  60. JM May 24th, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Billy D,

    Great stats! Thanks. I guess it was just my impression that they always seem to handle the Sox.

  61. mick May 24th, 2010 at 10:44 am

    now she runs and hides…

  62. Haiku-man May 24th, 2010 at 10:44 am

    ;) Looks like Larussa and Pujols are at odds with each other, in the dugout harsh words exchanged. http;// Seems Albert said something, that evoked Larussa to reply, “I know how to coach.” If Larussa thinks he’s more valuable to the Cardinals than Pujols, he must be drinking again.

    Yankees last scheduled day off, was May 7th, there was a delayed game in Detroit (rain), and a Dbl header played the following day. They have played 17 straight days….Their Tired.

    CC was owned by Bay like he was in the WS, with Utley, they just had his number.

    Sergio, Javier, and Robertson seem to be coming around, this is a good sign.

  63. raymagnetic May 24th, 2010 at 10:45 am


    All good points and I agree with you thatvit may be a dogfight.

    I just think CC and AJ will turn it around and the team will start hitting collectively again. I think CG has been thoroughly missed in the lineup and his coming back will help tremendously.

    I think the Yankees will trade for a DH if Thames and Miranda can’t cut it although I don’t know who’s out there and available right now.

  64. z May 24th, 2010 at 10:45 am

    you may tell yourself, these are not my New York Yankees
    you may tell yourself, this is not Yankees baseball

    letting the games go by, let the pitchers hold them down
    letting the games go by, losses flowing underground

  65. mick May 24th, 2010 at 10:45 am

    how about batting gardy 9th again, in front of jeter.
    move swish up to 2nd when grandy comes back.

  66. vinny-b (Brett Gardner will never see the bench again) May 24th, 2010 at 10:47 am

    “how about batting gardy 9th again, in front of jeter.
    move swish up to 2nd when grandy comes back”

    totally for this idea.

    Nick Swisher is a perfect #2 hitter, if there ever was one

  67. Bronx Born May 24th, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Perfect z.

  68. Bronx Born May 24th, 2010 at 10:48 am

    I think you are right Mick. They seemed to get more runs when Brett was in the 9 spot.

  69. z May 24th, 2010 at 10:49 am


  70. Doreen - GTLU Stuff & Photos May 24th, 2010 at 11:18 am

    I don’t even think your rotation order in the regular season necessarily dictates where you pitch in the playoff rotation. Sometimes they want certain guys to start at home, or on the road, so they might shuffle guys around a lot. The way I have always looked at it is you have 1-2-3 (or if you’re lucky, 1-2-3-4) and then 4-5. 1-2-3 are interchangeable; 4-5 are interchangeable. And the separate among all your pitchers could be very small.

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