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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Posada begins catching drills

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 08, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Jorge Posada blocked balls in the dirt, simulated throws to second base and caught Andy Pettitte in the bullpen.

He said everything feels good, but he’s not sure when he’ll be behind the plate in a game.

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284 Responses to “Posada begins catching drills”

  1. Gordo June 8th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    Nice, Cervelli has done a good job this year

  2. Carl (Trade August Romain) June 8th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Chad do you know if his fracture is healed yet?

  3. vblade June 8th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    # vblade June 8th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    # MTU (aka GBURL) June 8th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    VBlade-

    a rotation of :

    CC
    AJ
    AP
    CL
    PH

    Might be the best rotation ever. Would I love to see the Yankees do it ?

    Absolutely.

    Do I think they would ?

    Nope.

    So I agree with you in sentiment but disagree in real terms. :)

    —————–

    They could, if they didn’t sign Crawford. Javy’s money is falling off the books.

  4. Erin June 8th, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Good news :)

  5. Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    vblade
    I think the guy is just saying that we should continue to develop young power arms like Hughes because teams are locking guys like Felix Hernandez, lincecum, and Verlander up.

    The game in baseball is changing and the Yankees need to adjust. You can?t keep on spending on free agents/ old vets forever. I want us to go back to the years when the Yankees had a lower payroll, brought kids up from the farm, and made smart trades.

    We don?t need a 200 million dollar payroll. I rather have it around 150- 160 million.

    repost

  6. MTU (aka GBURL) June 8th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    VBlade-

    “They could, if they didn’t sign Crawford. Javy’s money is falling off the books.”

    You’ve got me leaning with that thought but they still may want to go in house (Joba) or cheaper.

    Hey. I’d love to see that rotation. It would be absolutely deadly. :)

  7. Patrick June 8th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Who’s to say you aren’t right and maybe the Yanks were worried, but if Culver wasn’t the best available talent at 32 but the Yanks accelerated the pick because they were worried someone else would get him then they were in fact drafting for need.

    I’m not thrilled with the pick but I’m not going to be an active basher either.

    Still not necessarily a draft for need. It could be a case where the Yanks like him the best on their board but know that not every other team agrees. They might like him the most but know he’ll be available for another 20 picks or whatever it is.

  8. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    “I don’t think Culver has anything to do with replacing Jeter since he’s years away from being able to make the majors.

    I don’t think the Yankees expect Jeter to be their starting SS 4-5 years down the road…..the time it may take Culver to make the majors.”

    I don’t know if I agree with that, there’s no one out there who will likely be available as a free agent anywhere near as good as Jeter, and there’s really not much at SS in the Yank system. Jeter could play SS another 2 or 3 years, I can see the Yanks feeling that they need to draft a SS who could be ready 4 or 5 years from now.

  9. rodg12 June 8th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    This has to be the most HS kids the Yanks have taken in the draft in some time.

  10. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    Patrick, there’s no certainties I agree but when I weigh everything up I think Goldman made a good point.

  11. MTU (aka GBURL) June 8th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    WYH-

    What’s so bad about Nunez ? It would seem he has the stick and GB says he is improving with the glove.

    Why no love for Nunez ?

  12. SJ44 June 8th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    They didn’t draft Culver to replace Jeter. Culver may be 5 years away from the majors.

    I don’t think they see Jeter playing SS for another 5 years.

    I think they made a concerted effort in the early rounds of the draft to bring in more athletic, toolsy type of kids into the fold. That’s an area in the organization that’s currently lacking.

    From a “need” perspective, I think its those kind of players they targeted and not a player to replace a specific player down the line on the current roster.

    If that was the case, they could have taken a more, closer to the majors type of talent. Such as the Deitrich kid from Georgia Tech, for example.

  13. XLJ June 8th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    LOL @ Posada thinking he is still a catcher. The guy is horrible behind the plate. He should be the full time DH.

    I cant wait till Austin Romine is ready. Yankee fans will finally know what its like to have a great all around catcher!!

  14. Roger(The Dutch Yankees Fan) June 8th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    CB

    That’s the latest on Robben.It wasn’t as bad as they thought.

    Back to Vetonghen.Vertonghen is more a central defender.At least that’s what he plays at Ajax.So Yaya Toure isn’t someone he could replace

  15. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    “If that was the case, they could have taken a more, closer to the majors type of talent. Such as the Deitrich kid from Georgia Tech, for example.”

    Well maybe they should have. If Culver is 5 years away from the majors they should have taken another guy first round. I don’t know of course, and don’t claim I know, but I think the Yanks must believe Culver will be a faster mover than that and do hope (of course they know it is all very uncertain) that he can be the guy sooner and that’s why they took him first round.

    Otherwise, to me it is a bit of a headscratcher

  16. vblade June 8th, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    # Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    vblade
    I think the guy is just saying that we should continue to develop young power arms like Hughes because teams are locking guys like Felix Hernandez, lincecum, and Verlander up.

    The game in baseball is changing and the Yankees need to adjust. You can?t keep on spending on free agents/ old vets forever. I want us to go back to the years when the Yankees had a lower payroll, brought kids up from the farm, and made smart trades.

    We don?t need a 200 million dollar payroll. I rather have it around 150- 160 million.

    repost

    ——————

    That would be nice, but we don’t have that kind of homegrown starter that would be ready to step in next year, or even in 2 years.

    The Yankees are always in win-now mode. Expecting them to let kids have growing pains in the big leagues is farfetched at best.

  17. SJ44 June 8th, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    They have Nunez in the organization right now who is probably a year, two tops, of being ready to play SS at the major league level.

    You also have the trade market to examine to find a SS, if need be.

    Honestly, no team drafts a kid this inexperienced to replace a current player on a major league roster. Its just too far into the future to make a move.

    Its not how major league teams do it.

    If they were looking to replace Jeter inside of two years, and that person isn’t Nunez, they would have taken a college SS, who is closer to the majors than Culver is at the present time.

  18. gcb June 8th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    predictions for Strasburg tonight:

    (1) strikes out the side in first inning (on 9 pitches)
    (2) strikes out the side in second inning (on 10 pitches)
    (3) strikes out 11 out of first 12 batters
    (4) strikes out 19 batters for the game
    (5) gives up 1 hit for the game

  19. rodg12 June 8th, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    Yanks just took a kid named Kevin Jordan out of GA. Toolsy OF who was sick and either missed or played at diminished capacity for most of his Senior year. Dang good upside for a 19th rounder. Really liking the Yanks day 2 so far.

  20. vblade June 8th, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    # XLJ June 8th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    LOL @ Posada thinking he is still a catcher. The guy is horrible behind the plate. He should be the full time DH.

    ———

    Trollisms are getting more farfetched each day.

  21. CB June 8th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    Taking Culver had little to do with replacing Jeter. Culver is so far away from the majors.

    If Culver took 6 years to develop it wouldn’t be a surprise.

    SJ is spot on. The talent in this draft really wasn’t great. What the yankees tried to do is to pick, young athletic players. Guys who if you hit on could pan out very well. Not only is a good strategy in theory in a down year draft, but it’s also a real need. The yankees really have to get more athletic in the minors.

    It may or may not work out. We’ll have to see.

    The SS to replace Jeter will either come from a trade or free agency. But that’ll be 2-3 years from now.

  22. blake June 8th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    Kruk just said that Teixera has to be perfect in his swing to hit the ball….unfortunately, he’s right…

  23. SJ44 June 8th, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    When you look at the early picks in the draft, there is a theme to them.

    High school toolsy, athletes.

    Traditionally, they aren’t considered fast movers in organizations. They are more “draft and develop over time” guys.

    Its pretty clear that was their theme early in the draft because they took 3 of those kind of kids.

    The Yankees have shown in the past they aren’t adverse to taking college position players.

    This year, at least it seems to be, they took a long range rather than short range, athletic kids and are going to try and develop them over a longer period of time..

  24. Roger(The Dutch Yankees Fan) June 8th, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    CB

    A Holland-Spain final would b perfect!Talk about 2 country’s who wanne play attacking football

  25. Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    vblade
    You make a great point. I think the fans can’t handle the Yankees facing any kind of adversity. All those years of winning during the mid -late 90′s and 2000′s have created many spoiled Yankee fans.

    Fans were going crazy in 2008.

  26. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    What does that say about the drafting that we have no good pitching prospects that can step into the rotation within the next couple of years? Nothing good. That said, why do we have to have another potential ace in the rotation? What’s wrong with having a nice solid #3 or #4 type?

    CC, AJ, Andy, Hughes – we definitely need another pitcher, but I don’t want Lee.

  27. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    SJ44-

    I don’t think the Yanks are looking to replace Jeter within 2 years. I think they hope he can play the position beyond that, and based on the way he’s currently playing there’s no reason not to hope that.

    Nunez is unlikely to be a Jeter replacement inside of 2 years, his upside isn’t that high anyway IMO and Culver better have a higher upside than Nunez to justify the Yanks picking him first round.

    I don’t think there’s much available in the trade market at SS, not near Jeter’s level anyway, and the Tulowitzkis and Ramirezes of the world are going to be locked up.

    So who knows, but I certainly think it is possible the Yanks were looking down the road with the Culver pick.

  28. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    CB-

    I’m sorry, if Culver is going to take 6 years he shouldn’t have been a first round pick. You are assuming away the issue.

  29. MTU (aka GBURL) June 8th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    Eduardo Nunez @ AAA :

    AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS
    .310 57 226 23 70 12 0 2 26 88 12 30 12 3 .349 .389 .738

    glove supposedly improving.

    :)

  30. CR9 June 8th, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Nick – Everybody has already answered, but Ill answer as well. YES! Big divers! Frikkin Italians make Cristiano look innocent of diving!

    Roger

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/ho.....feree.html

    How much more classy can a guy get!!

  31. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Also, I am not assuming Andy is coming back, no matter how well he’s pitching. He might, but he might not – he might very well feel it’s time to go home.

  32. Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    A couple of losing seasons for the Yankees helped them get the cour four or cour five if you include Bernie.

  33. vblade June 8th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    # Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    vblade
    You make a great point. I think the fans can’t handle the Yankees facing any kind of adversity. All those years of winning during the mid -late 90’s and 2000’s have created many spoiled Yankee fans.

    Fans were going crazy in 2008.

    ————-

    Like it or not, many fans are now of the 1996-onward era of win now baseball.

    I do expect the Yankees to continue their recent trend of great player development, but as we’ve seen with the scrutiny of Cano, Hughes and Joba, being young and a Yankee isn’t as enticing of a prospect as it used to be.

    The way the Yankees will introduce their homegrown talent is one or two players at a time at the bottom of the batting order and the bench (Cano in 05, to a lesser extent Cervelli now, Pena, Russo, et al), and their young starting pitching will end up spending some time in the bullpen behind veteran starters, aka Hughes and Joba.

  34. Nick in SF June 8th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Thank you, Patrick, and thanks CB and Roger (again).

  35. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    “Eduardo Nunez @ AAA :

    AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS
    .310 57 226 23 70 12 0 2 26 88 12 30 12 3 .349 .389 .738 ”

    Do you realize what an offensive drop-off from the Captain that translates to at the major league level?

  36. Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    We do have Zach Mcallister who is a sinker ball pitcher in Triple A. He could be a back end starter. Though I haven’t checked him out so far this year.

  37. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Yanks signed Brian Jordan’s son, Kevin…………..

  38. vblade June 8th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    # Betsy – Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    What does that say about the drafting that we have no good pitching prospects that can step into the rotation within the next couple of years? Nothing good. That said, why do we have to have another potential ace in the rotation? What’s wrong with having a nice solid #3 or #4 type?

    CC, AJ, Andy, Hughes – we definitely need another pitcher, but I don’t want Lee.

    ————————-

    I think not wanting Lee has more to do with price. Everyone would want a Lee in the starting rotation.

    However, they have the resources. They are paying Javy 12M this year. They don’t have to pony up much more annually for Lee, and he is miles better.

  39. MTU (aka GBURL) June 8th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Betsy-

    There might be any # of in-house candidates to fill a number 5 slot in the rotation. We do not have to have Lee.

    Possibles:

    Joba
    Nova
    Z-Mac
    Hirsch

    just saying. :)

  40. LGY June 8th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Betsy,

    How many teams of the Yankees caliber have guys who are ready to step into the rotation every year?

    You have to be a special pitcher to crack the Yankees rotation. Trading Ian Kennedy demonstrated that.

  41. blake June 8th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Bold prediction:

    Hughes will have a better line than Strasburg tonight.

  42. SJ44 June 8th, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    How is Nunez’s upside not good? He is hitting over .300 in AAA, has gap to gap power, and has improved his defense tremendously.

    He is a legitimate SS prospect according to the scouts I’ve talked to. A lot of guys really like what they have seen in his game this year.

    Betsy,

    Nova, McAllister, Phelps, Brackman, and Adam Warren are all guys who can fill in as back of the rotation guys that are in the organization at the present time.

    Others, like Noesi and Banuelos are down the road guys that are interesting.

    How many more arms do you want? Those are more starting prospects than the Red Sox have at the current time.

    Just because you don’t like Cliff Lee doesn’t mean the Yankees don’t. They love the guy and are going to be in on him when he becomes a FA, regardless of who they have in the farm system.

  43. CR9 June 8th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Jeremy
    I get tired of hearing the same old byfugliening carcillo about “spoiled yankees fans.”
    What is a spoiled Yankees fan?
    Is it one who does not like losing?
    Is it one that blames the organization and the team if the Yankees “dare” fail to win?

  44. vblade June 8th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    # Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    We do have Zach Mcallister who is a sinker ball pitcher in Triple A. He could be a back end starter. Though I haven’t checked him out so far this year.

    —————

    Phil and Kennedy were slotted as back end starters in 2008, Yankees missed the playoffs, and the “fans” nearly choked themselves insulting the front office. If AP isn’t coming back, the possibility of signing Lee skyrockets.

    Even if AP comes back, you’d still need a reliable starter because of injury concerns and if you do have a McAllister guy at the back of the rotation, you need insurance for him as well.

  45. MTU (aka GBURL) June 8th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    WYH-

    I do but who is really going to replace Jeter ? Unless they buy a higher end guy that’s how it’s going to be.

    There are very few DJ’s.

  46. CB June 8th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    “Back to Vetonghen.Vertonghen is more a central defender.At least that’s what he plays at Ajax.So Yaya Toure isn’t someone he could replace”

    Roger-

    I thought Vertonghen could play both the holding midfield position and center back? I believe he can play both. When he first came up for Ajax didn’t he play midfield? That’s partly what I liked about him – he plays multiple positions. I know he plays mostly center back now for Ajax but I thought that was mostly based on the clubs needs. Maybe that’s wrong and he’s just a better defender and that’s now thought to be his natural position.

    I believe he plays holding mid-field for Belgium as Vermaelen and Van Buyten play center back. Maybe that’s what I’m thinking of?

    Perhaps that’s just not his best position anymore. Anyway, that’s why I thought he could fill in for Torre.

  47. Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Wave Your Hat
    Jeter is a Hall of Fame player. Not that many players are going to have a career like Jeter’s. As long as he is a solid player then it’s fine.

  48. CR9 June 8th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    My personal favorite:
    “This is why people hate Yankees fans”

    It’s ridiculous. People hate Yankees fans because they are fans of the greatest team in the world. Bottom line. If they hated Yankees fans for being “arrogant” or “wanting to win all the time,” then they would hate Red Sox fans too. But that’s not the case.

  49. vblade June 8th, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    The point I’m trying to make is that getting Lee is an independent move of AP retiring or having in-house 5th starter replacements. Even if AP stays, you still need another starter at least as good as Javier Vazquez. Why not get the best available?

  50. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    MTU-

    That’s exactly my point, or rather Goldman’s. The hypothesis was that the Yanks are very concerned as they ought to be and that’s why they drafted Culver higher than otherwise they would have.

    Who knows if in fact the Yanks did that, but arguing that the scenario is impossible just reflects some other agenda IMO.

  51. H.K. June 8th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    A lot of pressure on Hughes tonight. No?

    Last time out, Clay butholez against the Orioles —

    Innings: 9.0
    Hits: 5
    Runs: 0
    Walks: 1
    SO: 2

  52. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    SJ, that’s fine, but CB said we have no high-caliber arms that could jump into the rotation. I made the leap and assumed he meant that he’s not overly impressed with McAllister and co. enough to give them a crack at the rotation.

  53. MTU (aka GBURL) June 8th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    VBlade-

    “you still need another starter at least as good as Javier Vazquez.”

    That is very premise that is open to debate. ;)

  54. SJ44 June 8th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    Wave,

    If you are expecting the Yankees to replace a Hall of Fame player in Jeter with another HOF player, I think your expectations are a little high.

    Contributions will more likely to be spread out over the entire lineup.

    Nunez is only 22 years old and he is having a very good year in AAA.

    I’m not saying he’s a HOF talent.

    I am saying he is a legitimate SS prospect in the game.

  55. Roger(The Dutch Yankees Fan) June 8th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    CR9

    THis kinda thing always happens when England goes to a WC or EC.English players are known for this

  56. vblade June 8th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    # Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    MTU-

    That’s exactly my point, or rather Goldman’s. The hypothesis was that the Yanks are very concerned as they ought to be and that’s why they drafted Culver higher than otherwise they would have.

    Who knows if in fact the Yanks did that, but arguing that the scenario is impossible just reflects some other agenda IMO.

    ———————

    I don’t think they’re as concerned about replacing Jeter as the fact that Culver, a player they really liked, might have been taken before their next pick.

  57. CB June 8th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    “I’m sorry, if Culver is going to take 6 years he shouldn’t have been a first round pick. You are assuming away the issue.”

    Not true at all. By your argument, teams should simply never take high school players, particularly if you are a top level team like the yankees.

    I believe Culver is 17 right now. Do you really think it would be unusual if he were to debut for the yanks as a rookie at 24?

    Do you even think it’s reasonable to expect him to be ready and debut prior to the age of 23? I personally don’t.

    I don’t expect any rookies to play for the yanks before they are at least 23 unless they are a Montero type talent. So I generally give them 5 years from the time they are drafted.

    It’s not assuming away the issue. It’s being realistic and not thinking that the rookies at the age of 20 or 21 are going to play for the yankees – especially at an up the middle position.

  58. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    Vblade, I’m not interested in Lee at all. I don’t want another high priced FA pitcher on this team and absolutely not for a long-term deal.

  59. vblade June 8th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    # MTU (aka GBURL) June 8th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    VBlade-

    “you still need another starter at least as good as Javier Vazquez.”

    That is very premise that is open to debate. ;)

    ————-

    I actually wouldn’t count out Javy re-signing. He’s the middle ground between Lee and an in-house 5th starter.

  60. SJ44 June 8th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    Or maybe Goldman is just wrong. That’s also a possibility with no other agenda behind it.

  61. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    SJ, fine – then if they go after Lee, they are making a mistake IMO. I thought the idea was to get younger (and better, obviously). Hal will spend all the $$ on pitching and leave little left in the budget to filling holes that pop up.

  62. Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    CR9
    I’m just saying that many Yankee fans can’t handle adversity anymore. Winning is fine but the Yankees can not win every year. It’s not possible. But many Yankee fans continue to believe this. Which is a reason why this organization has had a hard time developing talent since the cour four players. The fans ask for too much.

  63. vblade June 8th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    # Betsy – Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    SJ, fine – then if they go after Lee, they are making a mistake IMO. I thought the idea was to get younger (and better, obviously). Hal will spend all the $$ on pitching and leave little left in the budget to filling holes that pop up.

    —————–

    Younger and better don’t go hand in hand most of the time. That only holds true if you have a stud in AAA ready to take over.

  64. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Oops, I didn’t complete my thought.

    Cash’s goal was to have a mainly home grown rotation, so I guess now he has a change in philosophy?

  65. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Vblade, so it’s Cash’s job to make sure the team gets younger and better at the same time. This is going to be a very creaky rotation in a few years if Lee is there….

  66. Kevin (not that Kevin) Brown June 8th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Just wondering: is there any reason NOT to move Tex out of the 3-hole while he’s struggling so badly? Apart from not seeing breaking balls at all, he’s also clearly pressing. Would swapping him with Posada or Cano be a bad idea at this point, for a game or two? Take the pressure off Tex? Are they worried about his ego? His pride?

  67. MTU (aka GBURL) June 8th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    Vblade-

    That may also be true with respect to JV. If he finishes strong he might even be amenable to the idea of going year to year.

    And he does represent a sort of middle ground.

    The bottom line is that the Yanks will have options and they will have to decide how they want to allocate their resources.

    I personally think they will not pop for the most expensive option but could easily be mistaken, and would love to be. :)

  68. SJ44 June 8th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    In three years, Culver could be developing very well and still just be in Charleston or Tampa as a 20 year old.

    That’s pretty far away from replacing Derek Jeter.

    That’s why the notion they updrafted him to replace Jeter isn’t accurate.

    They lack athletic, toolsy kids in the system. Clearly, they targeted those kids, high school kids, early in the draft.

    That’s taking a slow, rather than fast, developmental approach.

    Guys like Jeter are exceptions to the rule in being able to make the majors at such a young age as a position player for the Yankees.

    As CB said, most of the position players who make it are over 22-23 when they hit NY.

  69. vblade June 8th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    # Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    CR9
    I’m just saying that many Yankee fans can’t handle adversity anymore. Winning is fine but the Yankees can not win every year. It’s not possible. But many Yankee fans continue to believe this. Which is a reason why this organization has had a hard time developing talent since the cour four players. The fans ask for too much.

    —————–

    The post-1996 fanbase is a fickle one. Basically they’re asking to sustain winning in an inherently unsustainable environment. The only reason the Yankees are able to buck the inevitable peaks and valleys all franchises face is the billions of dollars they wield.

  70. CB June 8th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    “If Culver is 5 years away from the majors they should have taken another guy first round.”

    If that’s how you feel and what your time horizon for expectations, then you are making a larger argument that the yankees should never select a high school player in the first round. All college guys.

    They shouldn’t have drafted Slade Heathcott last year either then. When the yankees drafted him I didn’t expect him to be ready before 5 years either.

  71. Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    You would think a fanbase would be happy that their team has won 27 championships. But some act like it’s not enough. I love winning but some of the demands from some fans are crazy.

    Maybe if we had a few losing seasons we could get rid of all the bandwagon fans from 1996 and so on.

  72. Roger(The Dutch Yankees Fan) June 8th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    CB

    Yes you’re right about that.But he plays as a midfielder for Belgium beacuse they have so many good defenders and no midfielders.They wanne play both Vermaelen and Vertonghen so that’s why.
    His best position is as a central defender.That’s where he has played this whole season at Ajax.

    But I really don’t see him going to Barca beacuse I wouldn’t know where he should play.

  73. stuckey June 8th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    “Do you realize what an offensive drop-off from the Captain that translates to at the major league level?”

    You do realize dropout is nearly inevitable, right?

    Yankees fans should be mentally prepared.

  74. CR9 June 8th, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Jeremy
    I understand that sentiment. But dont blame the fans. Blame the piece of …. media. It’s not fans that put out the newspapers. The fans dont intentionally have their opinions influenced by anti-Yankees criminals like Mike Lupica.

    The Yankees should operate however the heck the Yankees want to operate, with no regard for the media. If I were the Yankees, I would ban every single member of the media from Yankee Stadium that I thought was a sack of crap.

    So this whole post does not taken out of context, I have seen nothing but professionalism from Chad and Sam. I wish they’d get as much exposure for their professionalism as (insert name here) gets for their lack of professionalism.

  75. stuckey June 8th, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    “I thought the idea was to get younger (and better, obviously).”

    Who is younger and better?

  76. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    CB-

    I don’t know, but I think you ought to believe first rounders will move faster than the ordinary draft pick. If you don’t think he will, you shouldn’t take him in the first round. If you think he will take 6 years to mature, then you are just guessing what the player will be down the road and IMO you should have a bit more certainty down the road for a first round pick.

    That’s not to say all or even most first round picks make it to the majors at all, but when you pick one you ought to believe he will be an impact major leaguer and make it to the bigs faster than 5 or 6 years.

    SJ44-

    Of course Goldman could be wrong. But my point was the argument that he couldn’t be right is insupportable. There is a logical difference between could be wrong and can’t be right.

    And I never said the Yanks were looking to replace a Hall of Famer with a Hall of Famer. The argument was that since the Yanks know they will lose a Hall of Famer, and can’t easily replace the production either from their existing farm system or from free agency, they were rolling the dice for a high upside guy at SS and perhaps – let me repeat PERHAPS – overly influenced by that need in drafting Culver in the first round.

    And let me assure all that I really am a big Yankee fan and wish nothing but the best for Cito Culver and hope the Yanks have hit the jackpot with him.

  77. CR9 June 8th, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    Roger
    I know. And I am proud of Rooney and England and any other athlete that tells off a referee! Like I said, I love Roo. Just a huge class act!

  78. Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    v-blade
    Yeah you make a great point.

  79. CB June 8th, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    “but CB said we have no high-caliber arms that could jump into the rotation. ”

    They don’t. But they have tons of guys who project to be mid to back rotation guys.

    I just don’t think they are going to just pass on a guy like Lee to take a risk on a pitcher with that kind of limited pay off.

    It’s not an absolute in any way. It’s a trade off and much of that will have to do with Lee’s contract request.

    All that said, I think they are going to be on him.

    Personally, I would sign him if I could get him for around 4 yr/70M.

  80. SJ44 June 8th, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    Cash’s goal has never been to have an all homegrown rotation. That’s some fans goal and its unrealistic.

    Betsy, pitchers in their early-mid 30′s aren’t ready for the rocking chair.

    Andy Pettitte is pitching the best he has pitched his entire career and he’s 38 years old.

    Younger isn’t always better.

    If you are complaining about Hal being “cheap”, which you are prone to do, if he goes out and signs Cliff Lee, how is that “cheap”.

    You could develop pitchers for 10 years and not develop one as good as Cliff Lee.

    The Red Sox signed John Lackey, a guy with more health issues than Lee, in the off-season because their “vaunted” farm system didn’t have anybody on the horizon as good as Lackey.

    That’s what big market teams do. They look at the free agent market to fill needs and work around it with trades and homegrown players.

    Its the advantage of having money and knowing when to spend it on the right players.

  81. vblade June 8th, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    # Betsy – Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Vblade, so it’s Cash’s job to make sure the team gets younger and better at the same time. This is going to be a very creaky rotation in a few years if Lee is there….

    ————–

    I don’t discount Cashman using one of Montero or Romine to bring back a young stud SP, but given how Posada needs replacing in a few seasons behind the plate, I don’t think that will happen.

    I think Cliff Lee coming to New York depends mostly on 3 things:

    #1 – AP retiring and leaving a hole in the rotation.
    #2 – GGBG completes a successful breakout season, negating the need for Crawford.
    #3 – The brass don’t believe Joba is a SP anymore.

    If the answers to #1-#3 are yes, then I believe Cliff Lee will be in pinstripes next season.

  82. MTU (aka GBURL) June 8th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    CB-

    “Personally, I would sign him if I could get him for around 4 yr/70M.”

    IMO it’s gonna take more than 4 to get him. There will be lot’s of competition for his services from many quarters.

  83. Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    CR9
    Yes the media plays a big role in it as well.

  84. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Stuckey, I don’t know – I just don’t want to be stuck with another aging pitcher; I’m tired of that routine. Not every pitcher we develop has to be an ace……….That said, I don’t think a potential staff of CC, AJ, Andy and Phil is quite strong enough to handle a kid like McAllister in the rotation (even if he proves adequate). Andy is no lock to repeat his first half next year and AJ is really a #3 starter. I guess there is no easy answer.

  85. Kevin (not that Kevin) Brown June 8th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Whether or not the Yanks are thinking about any of these drafted players as position-specific replacements for the current squad, here’s a question: the team will re-sign Jeter to to a new contract this off-season, probably at least five years. Do we see Jeter continuing as a full-time shortstop that entire time? Or is he the Yanks’ DH of the future?

  86. SJ44 June 8th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    The first round in the baseball draft isn’t like other drafts wave. You can’t make the assumption that just because a guy is drafted in the first round, he will move quicker through the system than guys drafted in other rounds.

    Too much goes into the selections. Signability, college v. HS, pitchers v. position players.

    The round isn’t an indication of how fast they should move through the system.

    Especially when you draft HS players. When teams draft HS players, they aren’t looking for them to move through the system quickly.

    Its rare when they do. Its just too difficult.

    That’s why 4-5 years, at a minimum, is the timetable for HS players in the draft.

  87. CB June 8th, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    “But he plays as a midfielder for Belgium beacuse they have so many good defenders and no midfielders.”

    Roger-

    Thanks for the clarification. I thought he was more of a natural holding midfielder who was playing center back. But it sounds like it’s actually the opposite. If that’s the case then he really doesn’t fit for Barca.

    van buyten isn’t very good. I really don’t like him all that much. So I could see vertonghen and vermaleen being much stronger if they had better midfield depth.

    Belgium is an interesting side. They actually have some promise. Eden Hazard can be breathtaking on the left.

  88. Roger(The Dutch Yankees Fan) June 8th, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    CR9

    You love a player who tells off a referee the whole game…?haha you’re so Engish!

  89. Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    SJ44
    You make a great point. Most teams usually have 1 or 2 homegrown pitchers in their rotation.

    Heck during the Dynasty years the Yankees only had Andy. The rest of the rotation was not homegrown. The Yankees had more homegrown position players.

    But I would like to see another homegorwn power pitcher in the roation along with Hughes.

  90. Dweezil June 8th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    “The Red Sox signed John Lackey, a guy with more health issues than Lee, in the off-season because their “vaunted” farm system didn’t have anybody on the horizon as good as Lackey.”

    The Yankees don’t have anyone on the horizon as good as Lackey. That’s why the team has Sabathia, Burnett, and will likely be looking to get Lee.

  91. stuckey June 8th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    “It’s ridiculous. People hate Yankees fans because they are fans of the greatest team in the world. Bottom line.”

    Wrong.

    I’m a fan of the Yankees. Have been since 1975, and *I* hate some Yankees fans. And there are plenty of fans just like me.

    Stop trying to speak as if all Yankees fans are homogenous sheep of your choosing.

    “If they hated Yankees fans for being “arrogant” or “wanting to win all the time,” then they would hate Red Sox fans too. But that’s not the case.”

    Wrong again…

    “But dont blame the fans. Blame the piece of …. media. It’s not fans that put out the newspapers. The fans dont intentionally have their opinions influenced by anti-Yankees criminals like Mike Lupica.”

    Ah, so a person who styles himself as a advocate of fans, is arguing that fans are so stupid and impressionable that they can have their opinions influenced by the media?

    For someone who claims to love his fellow fans, you certainly have a low opinion of some of them.

  92. Roger(The Dutch Yankees Fan) June 8th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    CB

    They can’t both play as central defender because they are both left footed.Don’t like van Buijten(very slow) but they have Alderweireld as well.Another big talent

  93. Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    Hughes always projected to be a number 1 or 2 on a staff. He will be a co-ace along with Sabathia.

  94. vblade June 8th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    # Kevin (not that Kevin) Brown June 8th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Whether or not the Yanks are thinking about any of these drafted players as position-specific replacements for the current squad, here’s a question: the team will re-sign Jeter to to a new contract this off-season, probably at least five years. Do we see Jeter continuing as a full-time shortstop that entire time? Or is he the Yanks’ DH of the future?

    ———————

    DH is a position of power, and it will likely be filled by A-Rod once his age no longer allows him to play at 3rd base.

    Once Jeter can’t play SS anymore, he’ll retire. He’s not the type of player to overextend his career unnecessarily.

  95. CB June 8th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    “I don’t know, but I think you ought to believe first rounders will move faster than the ordinary draft pick.”

    I don’t think that’s true at all. Or at least that’s not an assumption I think you can make with high school kids in any way.

    Not all first rounders are the same. The mixture between polish, atheleticism and baseball skill varies a great deal.

    And with kids who are 17-18 it’s just not even remotely realistic to think they are going to move fast just because they got taken early.

    But that’s the entire philosophy some teams have taken to prioritize college guys. I personally think that’s just silly because you should take the best player.

    By your argument, the yankees should not have drafted Jason Heyward if they had the chance to.

  96. Jerkface June 8th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    A lot of pressure on Hughes tonight. No?

    Last time out, Clay butholez against the Orioles —

    Innings: 9.0
    Hits: 5
    Runs: 0
    Walks: 1
    SO: 2

    Gonna go out on a limb and predict that Hughes will strike out more than 2 batters.

  97. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    CB, I understand why the Yankees would be very seriously interested in Lee and, at 4 years, I’d have to think about that seriously as well. I understand that signing him would be a way of buying time for Banuelos (when is he going to pitch) and Ramirez, but I’m just very, very wary of adding yet another aging arm to the rotation. I look at the Sox and they have a very young Lester and Buchholz; Beckett is not old. Obviously I won’t even discuss the Rays, lol. I would like to see the Yankees develop their own pitching – yes, beyond Phil. Whoever said that Joba’s regression threw a wrench in the Yankees’ plans was exactly right.

  98. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    “The first round in the baseball draft isn’t like other drafts wave. You can’t make the assumption that just because a guy is drafted in the first round, he will move quicker through the system than guys drafted in other rounds.

    Too much goes into the selections. Signability, college v. HS, pitchers v. position players.”

    Signability has nothing to do with how fast a player moves through the system. The other factors do, but it is one reason college pitchers seem to be more in demand than high school pitchers in the early rounds.

    To me, your first pick, if a high school position player, should not be someone who if he fills out and if he does this or that will with enough time maybe make it to the bigs. That’s just a long shot roll of the dice. He ought to be someone who with what they have you think is highly likely to advance quickly through your minor league system. There were guys like that to be picked.

    I’m not saying the Yanks don’t think that about Culver. My guess is they think he will move relatively quickly. All I’m saying is you can’t dismiss the possibility that they were motivated by the loss of Jeter down the road.

    Anyway, I’m off. I think the Yanks will win their next three games.

  99. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    SJ, not a completely homegrown rotation, but I’m sure I read that Cash’s goal was to have the majority of the rotation as homegrown.

    It’s not that I think Hal is cheap, but when holes come up that need fixing, I don’t get not doing what needs to be done.

  100. Jeremy June 8th, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    stuckey
    I’m with you on that one. I don’t like all Yankee fans as well. I love the Yankees but their are too many stupid people who are part of the fanbase. Bandwagon fans from the 90′s just like the 2004 Red Sox bandwagon fans.

  101. Damon enjoy 27....think 28 June 8th, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    FYI:

    Ellsbury has to get a 3rd opinion on his busted ribs, he hurts.

    Delcarmen out, back

    Hermida out back,ribs

    Francona expects Paperlbon to miss the Indian series.

    sox fans want Wakefield, to WAKE UP!

    funny stuff.

  102. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    “By your argument, the yankees should not have drafted Jason Heyward if they had the chance to.”

    ??? Jason Heyward is coming up after spending 3 years and a little in the minors. That’s what I’m talking about.

  103. stuckey June 8th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    “I guess there is no easy answer.”

    Betsy, I think some fans fall victim of the secret desire to have the “perfect” baseball team, that’s positioned to compete or even dominate for blocks of years at a time.

    They want a mix of young, homegrown stars, with just a couple of players of advanced age that they have an immediate replacement for in the system.

    It’s just not realistic.

    Yankees look like they now have two stud starters. One in the prime of his career, the other just starting it.

    That already puts them well ahead of the game for MOST teams.

    Pitching results are not bias to age. They don’t care how old Andy Pettitte is.

    Worrying about what the rotation will be like in 4 years is simply just overextending.

  104. joe DT June 8th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    “AJ is really a #3 starter. I guess there is no easy answer.”

    Yes there is – signing Cliff Lee. Even if Andy comes back.

    Gives you protection if Andy has a down year next year, if AJ doesn’t do well, if Hughes takes a step back, or if there is an injury.

  105. CB June 8th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    “but I’m just very, very wary of adding yet another aging arm to the rotation.”

    It’s a concern but I think you are looking at age too generically and not thinking enough about talent, repertoire and style of pitching.

    AJ Burnett is a guy who you really worry about in terms of aging. If he loses a tick or two he’s at risk for being close to worthless.

    Cliff Lee is a guy who has a good chance to age well due to his stuff.

    It partly depends on how and what the guy throws.

    There’s real risk with Less. But the pay off of Cliff Lee is far higher than you are allowing for. He is a great pitcher.

  106. Mike June 8th, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    New Post

  107. SJ44 June 8th, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    Signability does have something to do with it wave. Often, there is great pressure to move a guy quicker through the system after he signs for big money to justify the cost.

    That’s a big problem in a lot of organizations and that’s often to the players detriment.

  108. miami, FL June 8th, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    FYI:

    Ellsbury has to get a 3rd opinion on his busted ribs, he hurts.

    Delcarmen out, back

    Hermida out back,ribs

    Francona expects Paperlbon to miss the Indian series.

    sox fans want Wakefield, to WAKE UP!

    funny stuff.

    No disrespect to the Indians, but I think they will get swept anyway.

  109. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 8th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    Stuckey, that’s fair.

  110. CB June 8th, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    “??? Jason Heyward is coming up after spending 3 years and a little in the minors. That’s what I’m talking about.”

    Yes that’s easy to say in retrospect when everything works out perfectly.

    But you don’t plan strategy based on ideal assumptions.

    Are you really suggesting that the criteria to draft a high school player is that he needs to be ready by the time he’s 20-21? If so then there’s no reason to ever pick a high school player unless you have ARod there waiting for you.

    In real time, when you actually have to make the pick there is no way the braves could know that Heyward was going to be ready in 3 years. None.

    It should tell you something that in order to meet your expectations for high school players development it requires a player who appears to have historically great talent.

    Heyward is an enormous outlier. But it’s only enormous outliers that satisfy your criteria. Effectively that means no high schooler in round 1.

    And some teams do subscribe to that near time horizon, low risk view. Which is why Jason Heyward went 14 and why Mike Trout went 18.

    But your line of reasoning means no high schoolers in round one.

    It also suggest that signing amateur internationals isn’t a great idea either because they can easily take 8 years to develop.

  111. Kevin (not that Kevin) Brown June 8th, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    vblade: Thanks, good point. Do you think Jeter stays in baseball beyond his playing days? Do we see him ever coaching/managing? or does he just walk away to the myriad other things he will have on his plate?

  112. stuckey June 8th, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    “It’s not that I think Hal is cheap, but when holes come up that need fixing, I don’t get not doing what needs to be done.”

    What hasn’t been done?

    And honestly Betsy, Lester and Sabathia are both in their primes. It’ll be YEARS before Lester’s 3 and 1/2 age difference will be an “advantage”, IF ever.

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