It’s raining in Baltimore
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 09, 2010 
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Oh my goodness. Some people have their accounting off. If the Yankees were to upgrade LF by signing Crawford then you can’t call it a 13-15 million dollar annual expenditure over a cost controlled player like Gardner making 500k. Why? Because you can reallocate your resources to acquire additional assets thereby reducing expenditures in other areas. When you spend 13-15 million per season on Crawford, YOU STILL HAVE GARDNER as an asset. If you trade Gardner for a cost controlled reliever, closer, prospect, starter WHATEVER you have to deduct the monetary value of that acquisition from Crawford’s 13-15 million dollar salary. So let’s say Gardner is worth 10 mil per season and the Yankees acquire an asset in another area of the roster for Gardner and that acquisition is also worth 10 mil per season, cost controlled. Now you’re spending an extra 3-5 million per season to have Crawford in LF instead of Gardner AND you get to keep your new cost controlled asset worth 10 million per season.
“They were talking about Tony yesterday at the beginning of the coverage of the draft on mlb.com in the manner you are referring to! It was kind of fun to hear all the praise given!”
——————————————————————
cool
The rain is moving out fast and should be out of the area with 45 minutes.
Should not be raining because Andy is not scheduled to pitch tonight, LOL
Chad, looking at the radar, looks like it is clearing soon. *fingers crossed*
GB7, you going to the game tonight?
CC is going tonight, so of course it’s raining.
Paul O”Neiil’s son Michael was selected by the yankees in the 42nd round
Patrick, I think your comment in the other thread was the first time I?ve seen you even broach the possibility that Phil gets figured out and struggles. I just find it funny because when I?ve mentioned something similar of the sort, you sort of pooh-poohed me.
Hope things dry up!
GB7, lol @ the oneill selection. I wonder if he has to work X number of games for YES?
—————————————————————
repost:
Poor Betsy,
You’re getting the grief today!
I’m critical of Joba. And I love Phil. But when I’m critical of Joba it’s because I feel that there are things that he’s doing a poor job of controlling things that I feel he’s capable of.
Not because he’s not Phil. Or doesn’t do this or that like Phil.
I think Joba’s a bit stubborn and as a result, he’s making things harder for himself than they should be.
But I wouldn’t criticize a player because he’s un-(phill in the blank)-like.
Bret, question.
Should the Yankees acquire Cliff Lee next season and then look to trade Phil Hughes for a cost-controlled lights out reliever?
From the other thread…..
CR9,
They will flex their muscles in the IFA market on the right players.
Sometimes, fans get too caught up with signing the one “big” IFA. I think that’s a mistake.
Just as in the amateur draft, there is power in numbers.
Sign the one guy you really want, and then go after a number of other kids.
Its all projectable type kids anyways. In many cases, we are talking about the equivelent of a HS soph who is often undernourished and underconditioned.
Its not just about spending money. Its doing so intelligently. Which, I believe the Yankees have done in recent years.
Vinny,
Re: Culver, it seems to me they made a concerted effort in the early rounds of the draft to add toolsy, athletic kids to the mix.
There is a shortage of those kind of kids in the organization right now.
The game is trending toward finding more athletic kids and I think that was the Yankees goal in this draft.
The kid to keep an eye on is the pitcher from Lynn University. I’ve seen him pitch a number of times and his stuff is definitely 8th inning/closer stuff.
I’m going to be interested to see how fast he can move through the system. He’s got a big arm and a lot better command than some scouts thought he had.
Maybe there’s a calculus formula for that scenario but I don’t think so.
WTP
Believe it or not CC has been the new Andy when it comes to rain!
Warning Track Power June 9th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Should not be raining because Andy is not scheduled to pitch tonight, LOL
***************************
Rain wise, Andy and CC switched places since the regular season started. lol
Yesterday, the sons of Major League managers, Jim Tracy of the Rockies, Ozzie Guillen of the White Sox, Bruce Bochey of the Giants, and Jim Leyland of the Tigers were all drafted by their fathers’ teams.
haha! Beat you, Erin.
mick June 9th, 2010 at 3:09 pm
Erica
You might want to ask about Shaun Marcum instead of or in addition to Garcia.
If you can get 2 pitchers and Bautista for Wright, jump on it w/out hesitation.
If he offers just one of the 2 pitchers take Marcum and run.
****************
I will definitely consider that. Thank you again for your advisement
I, for one, will always love and defend Joba. Mainly because of the iunnecessary flak he gets for his celebrations.
GreenBeret7 June 9th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Yesterday, the sons of Major League managers, Jim Tracy of the Rockies, Ozzie Guillen of the White Sox, Bruce Bochey of the Giants, and Jim Leyland of the Tigers were all drafted by their fathers? teams.
***************
Its awesome that nepotism is live and well
CR9,
Those unnecessary celebrations are so old news. Unfortunately.
“Maybe there’s a calculus formula for that scenario but I don’t think so.”
Why, not? What’s the difference.
You’re replacing relatively like performance based soley on the uncertainty of the less experienced player being reliable, and using said player to fill a need in another area.
How, if your estimation, are the situations different?
# mick June 9th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Erica—— Wright is not worth it, you need Pitching.
You can always pick up a bat and Bautista is worth more than Wright right now plus he’s a 3b/OF.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jim Leyland? His son must be close to 40!
Today’s Guess The Line Up is Now Closed
Thanks, everyone, for playing.
stuckey June 9th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Bret, question.
Should the Yankees acquire Cliff Lee next season and then look to trade Phil Hughes for a cost-controlled lights out reliever?
***********************
Nope. Hughes is untouchable. Gardner is not.
Chamberlain is probably someone the Yankees would consider moving so…
A better question is, should the Yankees acquire Cliff Lee in the off season and look to trade Joba Chamberlain for a cost controlled asset equal to Joba’s monetary valuation?
That’s a fair question.
That’s it for today Erica.
See if you can get me another roster.
m June 9th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
haha! Beat you, Erin.
***************************
LOL
stuckey June 9th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
“Maybe there’s a calculus formula for that scenario but I don’t think so.”
Why, not? What’s the difference.
You’re replacing relatively like performance based soley on the uncertainty of the less experienced player being reliable, and using said player to fill a need in another area.
How, if your estimation, are the situations different?
**********
The calculus comment was meant as an appendage to my first comment about the accounting.
Patrick, I think your comment in the other thread was the first time I?ve seen you even broach the possibility that Phil gets figured out and struggles. I just find it funny because when I?ve mentioned something similar of the sort, you sort of pooh-poohed me.
—
I am acknowledging that the possibility is there although I don’t think it’s likely. And you are way more negative on him than I was. Maybe it’s just your wording and not your actual intent but at times you make it seem like you expect him to start pitching really poorly. Or maybe that’s just my skewed perspective of your comments.
If I’m being totally honest, I think Phil Hughes will end the season as the second best starting pitcher on the team right behind Sabathia. I also think Pettitte is going to get worse as the season goes on, Vazquez will get better and Burnett will be about the same.
If I had to guess at how effective they are at the end of the season I’d guess the following:
1. Sabathia
2. Hughes
3. Vazquez
4. Pettitte
5. Burnett
“Oh my goodness. Some people have their accounting off. If the Yankees were to upgrade LF by signing Crawford then you can’t call it a 13-15 million dollar annual expenditure over a cost controlled player like Gardner making 500k. Why? Because you can reallocate your resources to acquire additional assets thereby reducing expenditures in other areas. When you spend 13-15 million per season on Crawford, YOU STILL HAVE GARDNER as an asset. If you trade Gardner for a cost controlled reliever, closer, prospect, starter WHATEVER you have to deduct the monetary value of that acquisition from Crawford’s 13-15 million dollar salary. So let’s say Gardner is worth 10 mil per season and the Yankees acquire an asset in another area of the roster for Gardner and that acquisition is also worth 10 mil per season, cost controlled. Now you’re spending an extra 3-5 million per season to have Crawford in LF instead of Gardner AND you get to keep your new cost controlled asset worth 10 million per season.”
Not really sure where the Yankees would go about reallocating those assets though.
Your fundamental concept is certainly understandable but in practice I don’t see how it works out. I have real doubts that the 2011 team will look much different than the team we are seeing right now, mostly because this team has very few holes.
The only place you could feasibly upgrade right now is the bullpen. And you don’t trade outfielders like Gardner for middle relievers because middle relievers are completely fungible from year to year. There really is no such thing as an established setup man any more. Unless the guy we are getting is named Joakim (last name not Noah) I think Cashman is finished trading for middle relievers.
He’s gotten burned almost every single time he has done it. It never fails.
SJ44
Absolutely. Im on board with spending the money in the proper fashion! And I am happy with the decisions the Yankees have made – sans Kei Igawa! Dont know if you saw my previous comment, but the mlb.com guys were praising Tony at the beginning of the broadcast yesterday.
M, that’s how I feel as well………
mick June 9th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
That?s it for today Erica.
See if you can get me another roster.
*****
I think Patrick wants help….
My team actually beat him twice. LOL
m
They are not old news when I saw Glen Davis acting like a rabid animal yesterday – foaming at the mouth – and getting rewarded by ESPN/ABC with constant closeups of his sickening performance of histrionics.
Outstanding Counting Crows reference, Chad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09CbvAiPdOw
Erica,
Can you get Patrick’s roster?
Is Fran in it too?
Erica
If you could get all 3, it would probably be worth it. But if you are only going to get one starting pitcher in return, you need to get one of his top-flight guys like Price/Greinke. Cant let him skate off the hook giving up nobody in return for Wright.
CR9,
lol, you were talking about Joba.
I’m still giddy that we took back HCA. Thanks for your support, as ungenuine as it is.
“A better question is, should the Yankees acquire Cliff Lee in the off season and look to trade Joba Chamberlain for a cost controlled asset equal to Joba’s monetary valuation?
That’s a fair question.”
No, it’s not. Because Lee and Chamberlain are not serving similar roles. Crawford and Gardner are.
In essence, I was responding to your attempt to boil equation down to some sort of mathematical equation .. all dispassionate logic and no personal motivation.
But your answer was the opposite of that – “Hughes is untouchable. Gardner is not.”
This issue is simple.
YOU don’t personally believe in Gardner, so you think it astute the Yankees trade him before he shows his true colors.
Which is a perfectly legitimate opinion to have. But you’re tying to frame it otherwise.
You don’t like Gardner and you’re well within your rights. Why not just keep it simple and stay on message then?
I’m leaning in the trade Joba direction. I would like to see him get his act together in the minors but who would replace him for the 8th inning spot.
“doesn’t matter. Both Hughes and Joba performed poorly in the post-season, last year. Chamberlain was lucky to not be a goat”
My point was more with calling Phil dominant than debating who was better.
Phil was a young pitcher still learning how to pitch and having success doing it. He had a successful year. Successful is good.
Lots of pitchers have dominant innings or dominant games but few have dominant seasons.
SJ:
thank you for the word, bro
the profile on Mason Williams (selected in Round 4), did make me think of a certain player the Detroit Tigers selected in Round 3 of the 2002 draft – Curtis Granderson
CR9,
Its funny about that. A year ago, the same people were ripping the Pirates for taking him.
The moral of the story…….
Don’t sleep on Cito Culver.
These teams don’t just pull names out of their butts. They put in a TON of time scouting a kid they really want.
The Pirates did it with Tony and the Yankees did it with Culver.
Sometimes, a team is on a player earlier than other teams and knows more about that player than anybody else. Certainly more than the Baseball America’s and ESPN’s of the world.
Doesn’t mean they are always correct in their evaluations. However, you can rest assured they left no stone unturned when scouting the kid and deciding to take him.
Everyone’s talking up KC players.
Guessing game of the day.
Which team is our next significant trade going to be with?
I don’t need help with fantasy, thanks for the offer though.
Which team is our next significant trade going to be with?
—
White Sox
m
What exactly is ungenuine about my support?
stuckey June 9th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
“A better question is, should the Yankees acquire Cliff Lee in the off season and look to trade Joba Chamberlain for a cost controlled asset equal to Joba’s monetary valuation?
That’s a fair question.”
No, it’s not. Because Lee and Chamberlain are not serving similar roles. Crawford and Gardner are.
**************
If Crawford is signed as the LF, Gardner becomes an asset and no longer the LF.
If Lee is signed as a starter, PHIL IS STILL A STARTER.
If Lee is signed as a starter, JOBA BECOMES AN ASSET AND NO LONGER A CANDIDATE FOR THE ROTATION.
Patrick, what it is is that I am something of a pessimist; therefore, I’m always assuming the worst. As you know, I have had unshakeable faith in Phil for years (well, except for a recent stretch that I would chalk up to being overtired and completely stressed out). Now that his time has come and he’s actually pitching, my natural inclination is to be skeptical – not for his career, mind you, but for the present. There are so many things in my mind that can “go wrong” that I can’t bring myself to assume that he’s going to be really good the whole year without stumbling (and I don’t mean just individual starts like the Sox/Mets games). I have valid reasons for thinking it’s very possible Phil struggles: fatigue (which may or may not be setting in), inexperience, teams adjusting to him (like last night or in the 2nd Sox game) and him not adjusting back, etc…..These are concerns I would have with any young pitcher; I simply can’t assume he’s going to be great all year. I’m not quite sure he’s ready to go out there for 27 starts or so and be the kind of pitcher we hope he can be; his start has, frankly, shocked me.
Funny-
I actually traded Boston Dave Greinke for Neimann.
Both guys went last night- Greinke earned him -3. Neimann earned me 36
Greinke is usually solid, but he never seems to get the win. No run support or KC’s bullpen will blow it
Glad I went last night
CR9,
You’re not a Laker fan, just an un-Boston fan. (I read through the crazy night threads, too!)
note: maybe i was thinking of Gumbs (Round 2) and not Mason Williams
Erica in NY June 9th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
GreenBeret7 June 9th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Yesterday, the sons of Major League managers, Jim Tracy of the Rockies, Ozzie Guillen of the White Sox, Bruce Bochey of the Giants, and Jim Leyland of the Tigers were all drafted by their fathers? teams.
***************
Its awesome that nepotism is live and well
———————————————————————————————————————-
Back in the early 90s, the White Sox drafted the daughter of one of their former players and then GM Ron Schueler.
# Patrick June 9th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
I don’t need help with fantasy, thanks for the offer though.
==================
Just acting as Erica’s GM -wanted to see your roster for possible trade ideas
Jeremy June 9th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
I’m leaning in the trade Joba direction. I would like to see him get his act together in the minors but who would replace him for the 8th inning spot.
************
FINALLY. Now we’re getting somewhere.
Erica
Smart trade.
Always better to have a starter from a winning team.
SJ44
Absolutely. The Yankees aint drafting somebody just for the heck of it. Let them bash Cito.
Patrick, to add on – Phil’s start has completely spoiled me, plus I’m having a hard time avoiding the comparisons to other young pitchers. Every time he has an “iffy” game, I keep thinking that he’s going to come up on the short end of the stick in these comparisons. I know it’s silly, but that’s how I feel.
“If Crawford is signed as the LF, Gardner becomes an asset and no longer the LF.
If Lee is signed as a starter, PHIL IS STILL A STARTER.
If Lee is signed as a starter, JOBA BECOMES AN ASSET AND NO LONGER A CANDIDATE FOR THE ROTATION.”
This is assuming Pettitte is around next year, is it not?
Straightforward question – is this or is this not simply based on the premise you don’t believe what Gardner is doing is legitimate? Yes or no?
m
Well, actually, as an “un-Boston” fan, I have been a Lakers fan in these recent years that the Knicks have stunk. Why? Because I want the Lakers to overtake the Celtics for most championships. I have every game of the Lakers from the last 3 years on DVD!
Long Time Lurker, First Time Poster June 9th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
Outstanding Counting Crows reference, Chad.
=================================
Round Here we roll like that.
Stupid question, but why can’t we keep Joba, Phil, AND Gardner?
If Mason Williams fails as a ball player, he can always hook up with Bernie Williams on tour and play classical guitar. He had a multi-million record sseller in the 60s called “Classical Gas”
Erica
Probably a good decision on your part, even though wins only get you 7 points, which cannot be guaranteed. Inning Pitches, quality starts, strikeouts and walks are very valuable in the league. That’s why it should be Price and Bautista or nothing for Wright.
# m June 9th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Stupid question, but why can’t we keep Joba, Phil, AND Gardner?
——————
I know. Why not just sign Lee and keep the three? It’s strange.
mick,
Ok then here you go:
Martinez, Victor C
Fielder, Prince 1B
Kinsler, Ian 2B
Young, Michael 3B
Reyes, Jose B. SS
Choo, Shin-Soo RF
Heyward, Jason RF
Pence, Hunter RF
Lee, Derrek 1B
Napoli, Mike C
Markakis, Nick RF
Quentin, Carlos LF
McGehee, Casey 3B
Buehrle, Mark SP
Hernandez, Felix SP
Hughes, Phil SP
Lackey, John SP
Beckett, Josh SP
Oswalt, Roy SP
Rodriguez, Francisco J. RP
Valverde, Jose RP
Betsy – you have every right to be skeptical. Phil’s performance last October is probably the #1 reason why I will be until the season comes to a close.
For me, its always been simple: Until these kids show up in the postseason (Phil, Cervelli, Gardy, Joba, etc) being skeptical is pretty natural.
Patrick
I’ve got it! Take Clay Buchholz from Erica. Your Red Sox underperform. YES!!!!
Betsy,
That’s a fair stance.
I’d much rather enjoy Hughes pitching like an ace than worry about when he’s going to regress. Which isn’t going to happen because Hughes is going to be amazing for the rest of the year.
mick June 9th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Long Time Lurker, First Time Poster June 9th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
Outstanding Counting Crows reference, Chad.
=================================
Round Here we roll like that
***********************
New Post w/lineup
Can always count on Erin to appreciate my nonsequitors.
“Patrick, what it is is that I am something of a pessimist; therefore, I’m always assuming the worst.”
Betsy, I’m not saying this to pile on, but to legitimately reach an understanding from now forward that will avoid the stuff that goes on here pretty regularly.
You have to give others leeway when they respond to what you just acknowledged you do, which is express concerns about the less positive outcomes of just about any topic of discussion.
If you know this about yourself, you gotta understand for fans of the most successful sports franchise of all time in the midst of an unprecedented run of success, the manifestation of this pessimism is going to be a lightning rod.
You don’t have to respond. And this isn’t criticism.
It’s explanation.
It’s TOO tempting for some of us not to try to frame thing so that you can see that your worries are unfounded.
If you have a difficult time curbing it, that’s understood. Just mutually understand some of us likewise have difficulty walking away from it.
I mean this with all genuine, positive intent.
Congratulations to Warning Track Power, today’s winner of Guess The Line Up.
stuckey June 9th, 2010 at 3:34
This is assuming Pettitte is around next year, is it not?
Straightforward question – is this or is this not simply based on the premise you don’t believe what Gardner is doing is legitimate? Yes or no?
*******************
Yes, Stuckey, this is assuming Pettitte is around next year and that JOBA would have to spend a second straight year in the pen. If Joba’s not a candidate for the Yankees rotation then he’s worth more in a trade as a cost-controlled starter to a team who values him as such. Adding Lee basically banishes Joba from the rotation, just as adding Crawford banishes Gardner from the OF.
I think what Gardner is doing IS legitimate AND obviously cost-controlled , therefore, if you exchange him after this season, you should be able to add an equally legitimate AND cost controlled player of equal value in return. You should be able to get fair value.
Honest question, do you think the Yankees would get fair value for Chamberlain if they trade him after a full season of relieving?
I think what I’m saying is, either Lee or Crawford will be added and I’d prefer to deal Gardner after his 2010 campaign than Joba after his. As mentioned in the last thread, I like our 1-4 just fine with Andy back in 2011 and I want Joba to get another chance in the rotation. As you said, his stuff is there. I like the idea of having 2 cost controlled starters in the rotation in Joba and Phil.
Worry stated as fact is not the same as concern stated as worry.
It does serve as a lightning rod to true believers.
vinny-b
Gumbs looks awesome. Great clip in the rab thread of him switch hitting. I hope the 3 fielders to sign are Cito,GUMBS,Jordan.But Gumbs looks like a beast only prob is he might go to USC. Pitcher wise realy want the tall canadian Lefty to sign.Very impresed with draft possibilities.
Doreen – GTLU Stuff & Photos June 9th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
Congratulations to Warning Track Power, today’s winner of Guess The Line Up.
Is this legit or are you teasing me again like last week, LOL