Postgame notes: A reason to jump again
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes, Podcast on Jun 10, 2010 
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CC Sabathia looked like his old self through the final four innings tonight. He ended the fifth, sixth and seventh innings on strikeouts, and had his finest moment when he struck out Luke Scott to strand the bases loaded in the seventh.
“He just seems to be a little off,” Joe Girardi said. “He’s just missing by a little bit. Tonight he seemed to find it, and that’s real positive for us.”
Sabathia said his changeup was much better tonight, and his slider was a very real weapon (especially in that Scott at-bat). After some two-out hits cost him in the early innings, Sabathia seemed to settle into a rhythm later in the game.
Sabathia, of course, was understated about the whole thing. He said he was “just trying to make some pitches” and that he needs to pitch to contact more often, but he did seem to find something extra in those last few innings.
“It’s important that you’re able to fight through it when you don’t have your A stuff,” Girardi said. “And I thought CC got better as the night went on. I looked up at one point and he had 15 balls and 15 strikes, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen that from CC. He found a way to get it done, and to me that’s the mark of a very good pitcher.”
Sabathia honestly didn’t have much to say after the game, so here’s Girardi’s postgame session.
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• How bad is it to be an Orioles fan right now? Tonight the O’s had the lead for five innings, the longest they have held a lead since May 25. They are 1-12 since. Yikes.
• Brett Gardner said he believes he’ll get an MRI when the Yankees get back to New York on Friday, but that’s primarily to make sure there’s nothing going on that the x-ray didn’t pick up. When he stole second tonight, Gardner slid into the bag with his left hand and “didn’t feel it at all.”
• Girardi did say Gardner is strictly a pinch runner right now. He said before the game that Gardner could be used for defense, but Gardner can’t throw, so he’ll strictly run for now.
• Robinson Cano is 9-for-12 since Sunday. Three straight three-hit games. “You have to be able to not chase pitches,” he said. “Just wait for my pitch and make a good swing.”
• Great play by Cano to hold Nick Markakis to a single in the seventh inning, and a great diving play by Kevin Russo to take away a double in the eighth. Girardi called Russo’s catch one of the keys to the game. “That’s what I’m out there for is to contribute to the team however I can,” Russo said. “Whether it’s on offense, defense, whatever. That’s what I’m out there to do and I’m glad I could contribute.”
• The Yankees have won 10 in a row against Baltimore.
• Change of plans for Orioles. Instead of Jeremy Guthrie starting tomorrow’s series finale, Jake Arrieta will make his major league debut. He was a fifth-round draft pick in 2007 and had a 1.85 ERA through 12 games with Triple-A Norfolk.
• Bad stat for the Yankees: They were 2-for-13 with runners in scoring position and left 11 men on base. Cano and Francisco Cervelli had the only RBI hits of the night.
• Speaking of Cervelli, Sabathia said he was basically just throwing whatever Cervelli called from the third inning on.
• Reggie Jackson has been in town for this series.
• When Mark Teixeira reached first on an error in the sixth inning… that call has been changed to a hit. That makes him 2-for-5 for the night.
• Jose Tabata singled in his first big league at-bat tonight for the Pirates. He finished the game 2-for-4 with a run. Tyler Clippard pitched a hitless inning for Washington in that game.
Associated Press photos of the Yankees outfield (Russo, Swisher and Granderson), Jeter and Cano.
The O’s still have a lot of young talent; this kid will probably shut the Yankees down, lol.
The Gardner injury sounds like it’s more than day to day if he can’t throw………..
Erica
Didnt see the offer for Silva. But again, you have no clue who it is.
“Kind of sad I could spoil a day for you.”
I’ve been kind to you time and again on here, and yet you find it in yourself to take another cheap dig at me! You tried turning me from someone trying to help a friend into a cheater! I dont appreciate that.
You have such a problem with unfair play, why not have a problem with B D?
Tyler, I know Cash hasn’t said it, but I’d be shocked if he was back – I definitely wouldn’t. Of course it’s early, but he’s lost some stuff and who knows if he’ll ever regain what he had? I like him and his start in Toronto impressed me, but I really need to see a lot more from him before I decide that I’d like him back.
Blake, I agree you can’t give up on talented young players, but if the Yankees are intent on fixing him, then Joba should be in the minors.
Girardi actually called Gardner day-to-day, and after he said he can only run he kind of backtracked.
He’s a little worse than day-to-day, but basically he could be able to play any day now, so he’s kind of day-to-day.
If that makes any sense.
Jose Tabata reaches the big leagues. If he does well it will be a bit painful to watch (similar to the Ajax situation) but it will be good for the Pirates.
Based on the information that Cashman had at the time of the trade, the Vazquez trade was a near no brainer.
Thats really all you can judge a GM on, you can’t judge the trade off the slow start that Vazquez had after it was made because that hadn’t happened yet. He’s turning it around now and if he contributes the rest of the season and pitches like he can, then its still a good trade.
Betsy, I’m pretty certain they meant they don’t want Gardner to throw, not that he is unable.
I don’t think the Vazquez trade was a no brainer, and that’s even if Vazquez didn’t get off to a slow start.
We really need Gardner back. I hope he’s OK.
Clippard may be one of the worst 8-3 relief pitchers in baseball right now. His numbers on the surface look good, but, 5 blown saves and 12 of 23 inherited runs have scored. He was pretty much the same last year.
Not quite understanding all the Joba bashing.
Sure, he has a ways to go. He?s inconsistent with his mechanics and that from time to time costs him dearly. I don?t, however, think its anything thats not correctable with some conditioning and more reptitions. Its part of the reason I?m so against him being in the pen- its impossible for him to get the reps he needs to practice repeating his delivery when he?s pitching about 3 innings a week.
Even with his spotty performance this year he has 31 strikeouts in 26 and 2/3 innings against just 8 walks. He?s given up just one home run too.
The stuff is still there for him to be a weapon.
Chad
I counted 7 “days” in your post. Maybe Joe was being cryptic and that really means a week.
Good to know that Gardner didn’t feel anything on the slide. But an MRI and pinch-running duty only doesn’t sound good. Hopefully not too long. Need some grit and gut in that lineup.
Also, regarding Joba, if conditioning is a real issue, then it’s amazing that the Yankees are tolerating it. That’s why I don’t think it is.
CR9-
Why on earth would I have a problem with Boston Dave? He has always been very nice to me. He is a good guy and a good Yankee fan who happens to be from Boston. He also happens to be trying to fairly better his team like the rest of us. I have no problems with that whatsoever
I admire you wanting to help people, but I think you went a little too far.
I really don’t want to argue with you anymore. So this matter is closed
Chad, I think I get it, lol; I hope Brett will be ok.
I would rather have a WS than Jose Tabata; without Marte, even though he’s generally been a disappointment, we don’t win the WS.
Blake, I agree……..I’m just regretting giving up one of our very few high end arms. Banuelos has yet to pitch this year (by the way, BP doesn’t think well of him at all in terms of ceiling) and Ramirez is too far away to even project, I think. I should amend this – I’m regretting it now, but at the time I was fine with it, so I’m not backing down.
I heard Tabata pulled up lame at some point in time in the game tonight with a leg injury?
Anyways great Yankee win again tonight. I hope good AJ shows up tomorrow. No Walks Allen James.
I though the Vazquez trade was a good one.
“Sure, he has a ways to go. He?s inconsistent with his mechanics and that from time to time costs him dearly. I don?t, however, think its anything thats not correctable with some conditioning and more reptitions. ”
I don’t either…thats what we can hope for. Still a very young guy.
“Sure, he has a ways to go. He?s inconsistent with his mechanics and that from time to time costs him dearly. I don?t, however, think its anything thats not correctable with some conditioning and more reptitions. ”
I don’t either…thats what we can hope for. Still a very young guy.
WOW. An ugly collision in the outfield between McLouth and Heyward. McClouth still isn’t up.
Meaning, I liked the trade at the time, so I’m not going to change my mind now just because I’m having a (hopefully) momentary pang of regret.
Chad Jennings June 10th, 2010 at 12:17 am
Girardi actually called Gardner day-to-day, and after he said he can only run he kind of backtracked.
He’s a little worse than day-to-day, but basically he could be able to play any day now, so he’s kind of day-to-day.
**************
In the last sentance Chad says “day” 5 times. So I think in Girardi speak, that means 5 days off for GGBG. Maybe they can put him on the bereavement list like Boston did for Papelbon
Ouch, oh I hate to see that. Get up, McClouth..
Must go to bed now, thanks for the good and mostly troll free conversation tonight.
Kennedy pitched 7 innings of 3 hit ball with 6 strikeouts. His problem was 5 walks. He’ll get a no decision.
I have a feeling Papelbon found out that his wife is actually his sister resulting in his bereavement stay.
Inappropriate.
Thanks for explaining Joba’s inconsistent mechanics Blake and CB.
I couldn’t help but think of AJ while reading your post CB. Are AJ’s problems also an issue of inconsistent mechanics ?
Night, Blake!
Betsy-
At the time of the Vazquez trade I thought Vizcaino had a chance to be a terrific pitcher. I thought he was the single best arm they had in the organization.
But I don’t regret that trade for a minute and I won’t in the future because it was the right thing to do at that time.
Too often Yankee fans want to engage in trades where they give up nothing of value. They want every trade to be as if it were a salary dump – as if every trade took the form of CJ Henry for Abreu or Betemit for Swisher.
But it doesn’t work that way. You have to absorb pain to make most trades.
How many good years do you think Jeter, Mo, Posada and Andy have?
Let’s be very generous and say they have 4 years left (4 years including this season).
That makes the short term extraordinarily valuable to the yankees organization because when those players decay in performance or retire the entire team is going to need to be retooled. And then you don’t know what’s going to happen.
Given that they had to make the Vazquez trade and there’s no reason to have regrets.
Just look at how stiff the competition for the division is this year or how stiff the competition is to make the playoffs.
Without having a solid pitcher in every slot in the rotation the yankees would be in a real struggle. They absolutely need a Vazquez – a good Vazquez – this season.
Not making the Vazquez trade would have had a huge opportunity cost. That’s why it was worth making the trade. It’s not only the cost of giving up Vizcaino and his future. It’s the opportunity cost of maximizing the chances of winning over one of the years that the team is still intact for.
And for that you have to give up an A ball pitcher – even one that could very well be a front line arm like Arodys.
The yankees have become a strong organization in terms of identifying and developing pitchers. They will produce other young arms.
You can’t want to win this year and be concerned about how much competition there is this year and then regret the trade later on. You can’t have it both ways.
Erica
WTH cares about Boston? What does Boston have to do with anything? Fairly, LOL! I dont want to argue with you either. Like I said, Ive treated you kindly so I can get that treatment back in return.
“Too often Yankee fans want to engage in trades where they give up nothing of value. ”
Other fans merely want the team to take more precautions about marshaling their assets for the future, even if it means taking a step or a half of a step back in the present.
CR9 June 10th, 2010 at 12:30 am
Erica
WTH cares about Boston? What does Boston have to do with anything? Fairly, LOL! I dont want to argue with you either. Like I said, Ive treated you kindly so I can get that treatment back in return.
************
This is past the point of ridiculous. Let things go
I am done with with this topic
“I don?t either?thats what we can hope for. Still a very young guy.”
No doubt. Even if he never regains the velocity he has in 2008 he still has the secondary pitches to be a great pitcher. His slider and curve are plus pitches and for a big right hander to have two legitimate plus pitches is still relatively pretty rare.
What he needs to regain is his command of both sides of the plate. When he was special in 2008 it was becaue he was locating his fastball with precision both in and out. It was really something incredible to watch- a guy painting the black with 97 MPH fastballs into the seventh inning.
If he can do the same thing with a 93 MPH fastball he may not be the perennial all star he looked like in 2008 but he still will be a valuable member of the staff.
Vizcaino has been outstanding for Rome this year, but, NYYs have pretty much a clone at Charleston in Ramirez.
CB, I can’t argue with a single thing you said. I had a momentary pang when you mentioned feeling pain seeing Viz perform as a Brave, but I would still do the trade as well.
I don’t know how the Yankees are going to rebuild this team when the core is no longer here; I would imagine they’re planning for that future right now. It’s going to be a scary process – the transition has the potential to be ugly.
Tarheel-
AJ also isn’t consistent with his mechanics but it’s for a very different reason than Joba. AJ just has a very complicated delivery with complicated mechanics. He doesn’t repeat out of complexity. But there’s a big upside to that complexity – it’s a major reason why his stuff is so good when he’s locked in. In a certain way, AJ’s pitching mechanics are a bit like Tex’s hitting mechanics (though AJ has been far more inconsistent than Tex has been – the comparison is with the complexity of the mechanics and the benefit derived).
With Joba – his mechanics aren’t all that complicated. He just doesn’t repeat them well. It’s unclear why – that’s the big question with him.
“Other fans merely want the team to take more precautions about marshaling their assets for the future, even if it means taking a step or a half of a step back in the present.”
Which should make those fans glad their GM wouldn’t give up Hughes in 2008.
Good night Yankee people!
Erica
Boston had nothing to do with it. Please dont attribute thoughts to me that arent so.
Consider it let go! Also, I will not follow through with it, for the sake of fairness!
Oh, and regardless of what fans think, no reputable GM tries to fleece the opposing GM……….the idea is to find a trade that works for all teams involved.
AJ came to pitching late – in HS, I think; I wonder who taught him that delivery? Maybe it’s because he’s tall – though, granted, he’s not as tall as Andy or Phil or obviously CC.
“Other fans merely want the team to take more precautions about marshaling their assets for the future, even if it means taking a step or a half of a step back in the present.”
This is an entirely different point that what I was making. I don’t disagree with it. But it has little to do with what I was writing about.
Most trades fall into a grey areas. That’s why before I said they involve pain. Ultimately you have to weigh the trade off but ultimately translate those into a binary decision – yes or no.
But that is ancillary to the point of the prior conversation.
Thanks CB!
Pitching mechanics has never been a strong point for me. I really appreciate all your insight. I was even checking out some sites re: mechanics. I too, am off to bed. Goodnight all.
“Which should make those fans glad their GM wouldn’t give up Hughes in 2008.”
Yes, but the two situations are very different. One was a proposed trade for a cornerstone player, the other was for what was likely a one year rental.
Fortunately, Cash’s belief that he shouldn’t pay twice (big contract and prospects) for a player held the day and Hank didn’t interfere, for long, anyway.
That calculus was inoperable in the Vazquez discussions.
Until this year, I hadn’t really noticed what a back leg hitter Teixeira really is from the left side. A lot of similarites between his left handed swing and Mantle’s left handed swing. When he hits it in that 1/2 inch of the ball, it really goes a long way. When he’s off, there’s nothing. He has no room for error. Ftom the right side, like Mantle was, it’s much more level and he has a lot more time to get to the center of the ball.
I’m glad they didn’t give up Hughes. I don’t mid making a trade but when the Yankees start trading for old veterans and signing them to long term contracts well into their later 30′s then it’s not smart.
Yes we need to focus on the present but the Yankees need to focus on the future because the core will be gone soon rather than later.
Hank did interfere – that’s why Phil was on the table. Fortunately Bill Smith got a case of the stupids and Hank finally pulled the plug permanently.
“But that is ancillary to the point of the prior conversation.”
On a blog like this, with so many replies, many of which are unreadable, it’s hard to know where conversations start and where they end.
Anyway, my bad.
Jeremy, even though momentum was there to trade Phil (the media and fans basically tore him down), Cash always had faith in Phil. Maybe he looked at him as the face of then new youth movement, who knows, but I’m sure it made him sick to have to make the call to the Twins to say that they’d agreed to trade the kid.
That’s why I was not the biggest fan of a Halladay trade. giving up top prospects and signing a pitcher in his mid 30′s to a long term contract. I like Halladay but the guy is getting older and injury prone.
GB7-
I didn’t notice how extreme Tex’s swing is from the left side until last season when we got to watch him every day. I knew he was a back leg dominant guy but not to the degree he is. The comparison with Mantle is a good one.
Quite honestly, I’m sort of amazed that Tex can hit the ball from the left side. He might have the biggest back leg dependence/ upper cut of any good hitter I’ve ever seen. It’s very extreme. His bat just doesn’t stay in the hitting zone very long at all. It’s remarkable that he has produced the way he has.
GB
I was listening to the MASN broadcast of tonight’s game. Eddie Murray brought up how much easier it was for him to “drop the bat head down” from the left hand side than it was from the right hand side. He had no idea why, just that he could hit that low pitch better from the left side. Thought that was interesting.
The best thing that happened in that Hughes/Santana trade proposal was that Bill Smith got greedy and tried playing the trades against each other one too many times and he got burned.
Rich-
No problem. I was just clarifying because I agree with your point as well and didn’t want it to seem as if I were trying to suggest that what I wrote precluded what you were bringing up. It’s just a different point.
Betsy
It must have been so tough for Cashman. Thank god Hank and his father are no longer calling the shots.
“Yes, but the two situations are very different. One was a proposed trade for a cornerstone player, the other was for what was likely a one year rental.”
As were the players on the Yankees side. Vizcaino was not Hughes.
I think the caution you argue for is present. A Low A pitcher is still a longshot to succeed in the major leagues by any reasonable standard of measurement.
Tar, it’s almost a freak happening when left handed hitters can’t hit down and in pitches, and can’t hit pitches up. Right handers are just the opposite. I’ve heard that forever and nobody can explain it.
Fortunately, the Yanks took a big chunk out of the farm reload over the past three days. And some of the post July 2 IFA signings from last year are shining in the DSL, so that helps, too. July 2 will be up again, shortly and we’ll have another chance to reload.
“The best thing that happened in that Hughes/Santana trade proposal was that Bill Smith got greedy and tried playing the trades against each other one too many times and he got burned.”
Absolutely. The Twins get a great deal of credit for being a strong organization but that’s to the credit of Terry Ryan. The book is very open on Bill Smith. He did a horrible job in that trade and during that whole off season.
Smith traded Santana, Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett and got almost no value back in return. That is a just amazing. He traded two frontline pitchers and a SS who made the all star game last year and didn’t get back one good piece. Just remarkable how bad he’s been with trades.
It’s a testament to the foundation Ryan built that the Twins are still so good after getting nothing back for that kind of talent – Santana and Garza in particular.
Phil-
What are your thoughts on the draft – Culver in particular. Man did his selection create a fire storm.
What players were the yankees particularly happy to be able to get? Any sense?
Overall I thought they did a nice job given how thin the talent was and the fact that they had only that 32 pick and no supplemental.
I couldn’t believe Smith wasn’t fired after that fiasco…………..
You want to talk painful? Phil in Minnesota would have been ………….pretty awful.
“I’ve heard that forever and nobody can explain it.”
Yeah me too. It was interesting to me, hearing it from a HOF player.
CB June 10th, 2010 at 12:47 am
GB7-
I didn’t notice how extreme Tex’s swing is from the left side until last season when we got to watch him every day. I knew he was a back leg dominant guy but not to the degree he is. The comparison with Mantle is a good one.
Quite honestly, I’m sort of amazed that Tex can hit the ball from the left side. He might have the biggest back leg dependence/ upper cut of any good hitter I’ve ever seen. It’s very extreme. His bat just doesn’t stay in the hitting zone very long at all. It’s remarkable that he has produced the way he has.
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It’s like placing a 95 MPH moving X in the strike zone and you’ve got to hit the intersecting part. That’s the margin of error he has with that swing. I’d like to see him get together with Mattingly this winter and fix that. Mattingly had only the slightest of uppercuts, but, he was so quick that he could be selective when he used it. O’Neill had another near perfect swing. Only a slight upper cut and the bat was foever getting through the strike zone.
“I’m glad they didn’t give up Hughes. I don’t mid making a trade but when the Yankees start trading for old veterans and signing them to long term contracts well into their later 30’s then it’s not smart.”
For one. Santana was 29 at the time.
Secondly. Halladay is 33. Since his 33 year old season, Andy Pettitte has won 64 games.
The worst mistake one can make is being a slave to a precept. As a general rule, sure, you want to be cautious about big money to plus 35 year old pitchers, but when you refuse to consider exceptions (i.e. plalyers like Halladay) you’re doing yourself a disservice.
“You want to talk painful? Phil in Minnesota would have been ………….pretty awful.”
Cashman said that during those negotiations when the idea of trading Hughes came up it made him feel awful because he couldn’t shake the sense that he was trading away a future Cy Young winner.
He said that in the winter of 2007 after the talks broke off.
“It’s like placing a 95 MPH moving X in the strike zone and you’ve got to hit the intersecting part. That’s the margin of error he has with that swing.”
It is. He’s got no margin for error at all. Slightly early and he’s going to top the ball off and pull it to the right side as a weak grounder. Too late and it’s a pop up.
Mantle was such a freak of nature physically I could see him getting away with it as well as was possible. He seemed to have a body filled with fast twitch muscle fiber.
But Tex’s swing is a concern for the future. It’s not the kind of swing that is going to age well. Randy has brought this up. He loses any bat speed and that margin for error disappears.
CB, I think Cash is very attached to Hughes. I just suspect that Phil was something of a test case for the Yankees being able to develop young pitching and he wanted Phil to succeed here, not elsewhere (because no matter that Phil was groomed as a Yankee, if he’d found success on another team, that team would get the credit).
Hopefully Phil will win a Cy Young during his career and prove Cash right, lol
Tarheelyank June 10th, 2010 at 12:59 am
“I’ve heard that forever and nobody can explain it.”
Yeah me too. It was interesting to me, hearing it from a HOF player.
———————————————————————————————————————-
The only explaination that I’ve heard that even tried to explain it was that the best handed hitters have sloping shoulders and that their arms hung differently than square shouldered hitters and were more adaptable to hitting low pitches. Musial, Williams, Mantle, Aaron, Mattingly, Gwynn and Boggs especially, with Aaron being an exception in that he was right handed. That came from Ted Williams.
CB,
The people who criticized the Culver pick don’t have the Yankees scouting budget and didn’t get to see him this Spring as he produced a nearly 2.000 OPS in New York’s Divison V which is darn competitive. He was one of the handful of youngest players in the draft and they were all looking at his performances as a 16 year old playing against 17 year olds last summer. Meanwhile, the Yankees had him on their Area Code team, and coached him up. He ingested all of it, and showed the Yankees just what they had taught him and more this Spring. Terry Ryan, who didn’t sleep on this one, thoutht Culver was the best SS in the draft. The Twins would have taken him instead of Lipka if we didn’t.
And that was just the start of another savvy draft by Damon and the scouts. Angelo Gumbs is even younger than Cito and a 5 tool prospect. And then they took a few other prep 5 tool kids, a bunch of polished bats, from both college and the preps, and just a ton of Yankee type arms. They are refining their system every year and there is no way they should be able to get the kind of talent they are getting picking 32nd.
Two of their picks, Jake Taylor and Ben Gamel are supposedly Corban Joseph clones at the plate. So they are finding guys who do things like the guys who are already succeeding in the system and avoiding taking the kind of guys that aren’t.
The began this whole interview/evaluation process this year, where they had their pro guy take a kid out to lunch and make a judgement on if he was ready to turn pro and be a Yankee. I think they learned valuable lessons from Angelini, Lassiter, and Smith and are putting them right to work.
If you look at this year’s draft and last year’s draft, you see a reason for everything they did. In the Lin Garrett era it was always default reasoning, like “he throws lefty,” “he hits lefty,” “he comes from football so he must be tough,” and “he had a good tryout.”
There mandate this year was to add athleticism and more power pitching. And they did just that. And they did it picking 32nd.
Phil, that’s very encouraging; I hope we can sign most of these guys………..
We’ll probably sign 30-35. A lot of the kids who want overslot will be summer follows, so whether or not we sign them will depend on how they perform between now and August.
“There mandate this year was to add athleticism and more power pitching. And they did just that. And they did it picking 32nd.”
———————————————-
That sums their draft up perfectly. They really took some exciting prospects. And really focused on the high school ranks for a change. It’s pretty exciting.
Phil,
Great stuff on the draft. You’ve got to think the interview portion of the process may be a by-product of the Garret Cole fiasco. Apparently his family felt he wasn’t mature enough for pro ball yet. The interview is also used at the NFL combine, too. An excellent tool to gauge the maturity of a player.
“They are refining their system every year and there is no way they should be able to get the kind of talent they are getting picking 32nd. ”
Phil-
I agree. I think they are evolving, adapting and learning from what has and hasn’t worked. You can see it in their drafting. from year to year.
I was very happy. And one of the nice things was that the deeper they got into the draft the more satisfied I was with it. And that’s not because I know much about these players – it’s because as the rounds went on you could piece together more and more of the yankees strategy and master plan. You could start to see the underlying logic, the trade offs the organization had prioritized and their overall plan of attack.
As the rounds went on it seemed like the whole thing made more and more sense. You could infer the logic of it. Everything really did seem very well thought out.
The Culver pick made me think of Romine and Murphy right away. Obviously Culver was even more off the radar but Romine and Murphy also weren’t “known names” either and were criticized.
I must have written a dozen posts about why the yankees must have scouted and had more information on Culver than any other organization or person. In a way they were taking advantage of a market inefficiency that developed because they had more information on the player compared to others. I felt good about the pick after we found out he’d been on their area code team. The whole thing made a lot more sense after that.
Culver, Gumbs, Jordan. Those are very young, raw players but ones who have skill sets the organization needs and would benefit from greatly.
This is one of those drafts where if even one of those players hits – the entire draft will be a very good one.
It’ll also be nice to have a draft where the kids will sign early and get into the GCL this summer.
CB,
Can’t help but wonder if Austin Jackson’s success in the majors so far might have emboldened the Yankees a bit in the type of players they drafted. Wasn’t AJ an athletic, but raw baseball player?
Can’t help but wonder if Austin Jackson’s success in the majors so far might have emboldened the Yankees a bit in the type of players they drafted. Wasn’t AJ an athletic, but raw baseball player?
–
2 sport athlete who wasn’t quite as raw as CJ Henry if I recall. I’m really pleased with the draft overall, even if they did pass on some known guys.
Now the fun begins, waiting for them to sign and start playing so you can follow their box scores!
CB,
You can definitely see the pattern they’ve refined as far as taking teenagers goes, as well as hitter and pitchers in general. This year, they judged the prep ranks to be presenting more talent than the college ranks. So they popped more preps than they have the Damon Oppenheimer era. I think there are three parts to why they were comfortable doing that, 1) lessons learned, 2) crosscheckers added and 3) Chris Passarella’s interviews.
They have added talent to their scouting and evaluation staff every year, and don’t mind asking Eppler or any of the scouts from the other parts of organization the check out a kid they’re considering.
So, for the most part, they are going in with convictions and have a few “ringers” that have been underscouted by other teams, that they know they are going to pop at some point.
And they’re even looking for value in the undervalued college seniors. Look at Warren from last year. This kid Roller has the Giambi approach at the plate, and was underrated because he’s 1B/DH and college seniors who are 1B/DH’s get drafted late. But this guy hits bombs and walked 61 times and was the MVP of the Cape last year, so the Yanks bought that bat in the 8th. As a senior, he’ll come in for 8th round dough, saving cash for the overslots, and could turn into an impact hitter for the Yanks. So they’re not just taking seniors who are cheap cause they need to have a team in SI.
They are looking for Yankees high and low, and that is the real logic behind the picks. And why we took so many preps this year, they had more talent and thus better chances of being Yankee type players. They were comfortable doing it because of the refinements they have made.
I agree with everything Phil said, I really liked the draft, even a lot of the college kids are DES who are intriguing prospects, including some of the arms.
The third round pick Segedin might be the kind of hitter we have been looking to draft for a long time.
Segedin can absolutely rake. They’ll get him in, and hopefully since it will be third plus overslot the commish will not illegally sit on the deal for too long.
Thanks for the analysis Phil. Really appreciate the insight into this year’s draft philosophy and results considering I didn’t follow as closely this year as I have in the past.
I really hope this team can use the next five games as a springboard to start rolling. If we take four of the next five we’ll be sitting at 41-23 when Philadelphia comes to down. If Tex gets going, Javy keeps pitching well every fifth day, and Joba avoids major meltdowns in three run games, we could really explode and be in great shape before the break.
m-
It very well may have. My sense is that it’s more the overall trend and success of their drafts. I think it’s the big picture. Drafting Dave Robertson in the 16th round. Joba in the supplemental. Things like that.
Night all.
I think the Austin Jackson thing was that they traded him and Tabata the year before and realized they needed to replace that talent lost and more. I don’t think seeing Austin do well, or Brett Gardner do well has discouraged them about their ability to develop players for the outfield. Heck, Colin Curtis should have been given the spot Winn got the deal to take.
Phil you know who Segedin reminds me of is Adams, only this kid already has the swing down, but he drives the ball to the gaps, only he has a lot more now hr power.
I do hope they sign him sooner than later and Bud does not ruin another kids first year of pro ball experience.
Phil the Thrill
Great perspective on the draft.Just two Questions do you think Ruski the canadian pitcher not commited to any school yet will sign? also what about Gumbs maybe going to USC and Jordan do you see signability probs with any of these 3. Thnx 4 the info.Always respect your oppinions.
Colin Curtis and Austin Krum are both going to be playing in the majors for someone, if not us sooner than later, they are useful hard nosed kids, who will help a team win.
Brewer is another one too.
Segedin’s got more power than Adams, but Adams is a good place to look for where they started taking guys with patience and pop, instead of taking guys like Hilligoss and some others who could put up a decent average but could not control the strikezone and take their walks. Part of this improvement in finding bats had to do with Rowland and Livesay coming back to the organization as well as some of the other scouts they added. Matt Hyde is turning into just a beast for us when it comes to finding kids in the Northeast.
Sac Fly,
No, we will get both of those players. The big Canadian kid, I had a feeling about before the draft. I think he may be one of the ringers. With a lot of the pitchers they are going to do summer follows, and I think if enough of them perform, the Yanks will go above budget to put them in pinstripes.
Phil the Thrill,
I’ve seen you here all the time, but never in this role–draft expert!
How are you so familiar with the Yankees and their draft?
Phil the Thrill
Thanx 4 the Info.Very excited for the draft.Lots and lots of great possibilities.What pick do you see as being the most mlb ready.The shortest time to the show?
m
because I pay attention and have the right connections. But put paying attention to how the team functions and operates is even more important than having connections and allows you to be of service to the connections over time.
By the way love your personal Blog gret stuff!!!!!!!!!I keep hoping to see Lebron and Wade in Knicks uniform picture!lolThanx once again 4 all the info.
Phil,
Thanks for that. I’ll be sure to pay attention…especially when you post.
Sac fly, I don’t know who will be ready first, probably one of the college pitchers or Segedin or Roller. They drafted most preps and they will all need development. The best prep we’ve taken in the past 10 years was Phil Hughes, and he made it by age 20 (then got hurt throwing a no-hitter), we’ll see what happens with this group.
Thanks m!
I tend not to post here during the actual draft because the picks come at a much faster pace than they do in other drafts. I also split when it gets too acidy around here, which it sometimes does. Though I do enjoy a number of the posters here, including you.
Finally a draft of guys that hit and run and catch and everything. OFs that have arms in the nineties and speed. Someone besides catchers and 2B. Oh frabjus.
Some of those catchers and 2Bs are going to be our trade gold over the next few years. Nobody’s moving Cano off.
Phil,
Thanks. I’m a draft abstainer. I tend to gravitate towards the players that are on the cusp of helping the big club. But you can’t help but know the movers and shakers.
Plus, the whole leverage thing of going to college thing just pisses me off when they exercise it!
AND the national guys are just regurgitating the same stuff from that famous scout.
AND, everyone else tries to act like an expert. But, I’ll definitely read your stuff to learn a bit more. Slow and easy wins the race!
Cardinals paid dearly for using Winn in CF, a BALL GOT PAST HIM (shocker) and cost the pitcher to throw 27 pitches with 2 outs!
After batting him 2nd yesterday, with a 1-0 loss, Larussa wised up and put him back in the7th
spot, they still loss 4-3 Dodgers, a s well as knocked out of 1st place in the NL Central.
Dodgers were 6 games out the first part of May, and now have the best record in the NL.
Yankees play them later this month in i inter-league play, they are on fire!!
m,
The national stuff is remedial and scouts have agendas when they supposedly give info to BA or ESPN or whoever. The Yanks as policy do not share proprietary info with BA or media outlets. That’s why BA treats them shabbily and does things like when they called Jesus Montero a bust at his first instructs, even though they had noone at the Yankee instructs.
Stick with the people who really follow the minors and may actually be able to get straight info from scouts and such.
Whoa! A Stanley Cup champion was crowned tonight. And here we are discussing Joba…again.
Anyone got a list of nepotistic picks? Add LA Dodgers. They took Ethier’s brother.
Good job by the Yankees. 15 games over .500.
m
Someone on this blog said the Yankees would be 20 games over .500 by July it might come early.
NY Times is making a special point of mentioning that Halladay will face the Yankees when they meet next week. What it fails to mention , is that like WS there’s nothing after him in the starting rotation!
On the Dan Patrick Show, Phillie SS Jimmy Rollins expressed disbelief and disappointment that the Phils traded Cliff Lee after obtaining Doc Holiday….He went on to say that the Phils drew almost 4 million fans and the club should have been able to retain Lee’s services…….He concluded saying that The NY Yankees wouldn’t do something like that ……The Yankees are a club that pays and will do whatever it takes to win a Championship & players really respect that commitment by the front office………Speaks volumes when those comments come from a player like Jimmy Rollins who is fresh off of 2 consecutive WS appearances……….Bottom line, we as Yankee fans should sit back and think about what Rollins stated and be grateful……
Masterson was only 2 hits away from a perfect game with bosox, would’ve been nice to see.
Pat M
It’s a telling comment comng from the big mouthed guy who predicted last year on David Letterman that the Phillies would win the WS in 5 games. He knows his Gm Rubin Amaro gutted their team! After Halladay their weaknesses are exposed to any good team.
What Jimmy doesn’t understand is, it was a 3 team trade with all the teams getting valuable prospects/ and or players. Amaro wasn’t going to get to keep Lee and Halladay it would improve their team too much. Amaro wanted Halladay and he got him.
The way I heard it described in the Hotstove reporting, was, Amaro dug a hole with one hand, (by trading Lee,) and filled it in with the other, (by trading for Halladay,) a lateral move that kept the team with an Ace, but one with no postseason experience!!
As much as I admire CC he’s going to have back problems if he doesn’t tone his core!
CC is 6’7. he can handle a little extra weight.
ugly win for the yanks tonight but i’ll take it. by the way, total joke on that error changed to a hit for Teixeira. hometown gift? a high schooler should have made that play and lugo completely botched it.
kevin
His weight isn’t the issue , his spine is compromised with his belly being out of shape!
CC last night and Phil the night before showed why they are such good pitchers. They didn’t have their best stuff, and managed to keep the team in the game.
I was happy to see the Cisco kid come thru w/ an insurance run, and what about that catch by Russo!?! It made top 10 plays this am.
Great overnight discussion last night for those who are interested.
Yanks are 15 games over .500, next stop +20…
Wow, Jimmy Rollins actually said that? If I were Amaro, I wouldn’t be too happy – even if it is the truth..
Blake,
I agree.
The folks who come on here and complain about Cashman and the Yankees every single day should take the time to read Phil The Thrill’s posts. Its not just opinion. He has solid contacts and knows what he is talking about.
Folks would see there is an organizational philosophy at hand and they have a plan.
I will tell you that last year, the Yankees were one of the most complete organizations when it came to evaluating and interviewing my nephew of all the team we dealt with prior to the draft. That was a situation where catching wasn’t a priority and they felt he wouldn’t have lasted that late into the first round.
If they had that attention to detail on him, imagine how much they would have on players they felt would fall to them?
The organization has completely turned around since Cash took over. Its a shame fans who do nothing but whine and cry can’t see it.
One would think winning the World Series, and seeing how many homegrown guys are coming through the system and doing well would chill them out. Unfortunately, that’s not the case.
SJ – some people are also not happy if they don’t have something to complain about
Cash will never get the respect he deserves from fans because he’s got $$ to play with and he’s not Theo, but he is very well respected around the game.
LOL Sherman ripping CC apart………….
Good Morning.
Great commentary last night especially on Tex’s swing mechanics, and the draft.
Phil the Thrill. Thanks so much for providing all that insight.
Now onto other matters.
YMH. This one’s for you.
http://picasaweb.google.com/cybermrb03/Watchman#
The snark, Keith Law not too impressed with the Yankee draft choices. Needless to say, I seriously doubt he spent much time actually watching these players in person. Just a little video for some of them and stealing some info from other scouts.
“I like what they did later on Day 2 more than what they did early. Second-rounder Angelo Gumbs has gotten the “athletic” tag for the wrong reasons, and I don’t buy his bat. Third-rounder Rob Segedin has some strength and line-drive power with a history of back problems and a probable future at third base. Fourth-rounder Mason Williams is the son of a former New England Patriot and wanted top-ten money to sign; he can run and has some bat speed but is still slight of build and lacks feel at the plate. Fifth-rounder Tommy Kahnle could move fast as a reliever who’ll work at 94-96 or better. Sixth-rounder Gabe Encinas is a sinker-slider guy who’ll just need some delivery maintenance. The Yankees grabbed Georgia Tech closer Kevin Jacob — who was a top-three-rounds candidate before he hurt his arm midyear — in the 18th round, and St. John’s closer Dan Burawa (who’s been up to 95) in the 12th. They took a handful of tough signs, including Tennessee catcher-turned-pitcher Taylor Morton (committed to the Volunteers); Ben Gamel, brother of Mat (Florida State); Canadian lefty Evan Rutckyj (no commitment, but demanding first-round money); and Georgia infielder Kevin Jordan (Wake Forest).”
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb.....id=5267037
Good to keep up those winning ways Yanks!
The Os are really not vary good at this point; sweep them.
Let’s hope Gardy gets better quickly so he doesn’t loose his stroke like last year.
Russo’s play in LF was awesome so let’s hope Joe plays him out there rather than Thames. Thames is going to need some at bats soon though.
Since I brought up the topic yesterday and cause something of a stir:
http://newyork.sbnation.com/20.....the-making
Of all the threads I’ve read on LoHud (which isn’t everything) I think this one is the best-some real insight and discussion. Thanks for sharing, everyone, it’s really appreciated. If this could be sustained without all the drivel and complaining what a great place to discuss the Yankees this would be.
Patrick from CT June 10th, 2010 at 8:31 am
Let?s hope Gardy gets better quickly so he doesn?t loose his stroke like last year.
**************************
He was out for over a month last year. Doesn’t sound like it’ll be nearly that long this time.
I’ve seen Tommy Kahnle pitch a lot. He can be a fast mover. He legitimately sits 94-96 and his command is better than some of the reports I’ve read on sites about him.
I’m going to be interested to see how quickly he can adjust to pro ball. If he can adjust quickly, I agree that he can be a fast mover through the system.
Do these scouting guru’s actually scout?
There does seem to be a lot of group think amoung these guys.
It’s almost like they pull they’re info from the same sources.
Betsy
What is there about that article to cause a stir? 2 young pitchers who have struggled and now are pitching well. And what is the Verducci effect?
MTU
those pix bring back fond memories. Did you see any hummingbirds?
No they don’t.
Many of them are just writers and they cull their info through sources.
Keith Law actually goes out and sees players.
He’s like every other scout. He sees a guy, has an opinion about him, and writes about it.
At least Keith goes out and sees a lot of guys at games, showcases, etc.
A lot of the people who are self-appointed “gurus” do not. They look at tape, hear from a few scout friends, and offer their “facts” on the player.
I went through this last year with my nephew.
I saw guys write stories about him who have never seen one inning of his play at Boston College. Yet, “knew” everything about him.
Its why they got so ticked off when he went earlier than they expected in the draft.
They don’t like to be so wrong with their mock drafts.
Check this new site out… the Teix story is good – never liked Kevin Kernan of the NY Post.
SJ,
It makes a ton of sense that the Yankees have mave a move to put some of their financial might into player scouting and development.
It costs them on the front end but could save millions if you are producing cost controlled talent instead of relying on picking it from other teams.
I love how the Yanks are running their organization now. Would have been nice to have your nephew part of the catching pipeline as well though.
“Keith Law actually goes out and sees players”
That’s the one thing in particular I like about Law. Never tries to BS his way thru this stuff. If he hasn’t seen a guy, he says so and either offers what others he trust say about the player or nothing at all.
SJ, did playing on the east coast hurt Tony?-In the eyes of the scouts, that is.
It seems that a lot of the kids who play in cold weather areas don’t get the attention that some of the sunbelt kids do.
Kate-
“Did you see any hummingbirds?”
Yes. A few in mortal combat mode along the trail.
Got ‘em in our Backyard. They are the “dogfighters” of the bird word.
The Thunderbirds or Blue Angels could use them.
I like Law too.
Every writer has their idiosyncrasies and whatnot, and I can see how he can seem a tad snarky to some. But he does a good job.
Blake,
The tough part for many fans is, they can’t see the improvements being made in the organization because they have no frame of reference of the past.
From 2000-2005, there wasn’t anything close to the scouting budget and personnel that are in place today.
It was a part of the organization that fell into complete disrepair.
When Cash assumed full control, his #1 priority was to rebuild the scouting department from top to bottom.
They have sunk a ton of money into it, as well as in their facility in the Dominican Republic, to turn things around.
Unlike signing a free agent though, it takes years to see the results of this makeover.
To have it turn out as well as it has so quickly (winning a WS with a lot of homegrown talent contributing in different ways) is amazing.
Its why the general thought among people in baseball now is that the Yankees are poised for another big run.
They always had money. They are now using the money intelligently AND running the organization in an intelligent, baseball first, manner.
That’s not good for the rest of the game.
“SJ, did playing on the east coast hurt Tony?-In the eyes of the scouts, that is.
It seems that a lot of the kids who play in cold weather areas don’t get the attention that some of the sunbelt kids do.”
Don’t want to answer for SJ, but I’d guess that being in the ACC as opposed to the Big East has served to help players at BC get more recognition than they otherwise might get. I wonder if SJ’s nephew even goes to BC if they were still in the Big East at the time he committed.
Phil/CB, Thanks for the draft posts. Really enjoyed them.
Phil/CB, Thanks for the draft posts. Really enjoyed them.
Tom,
From a baseball perspective, no. From a reporting/coverage perspective? Absolutely.
Same thing happened to Cito Culver.
There is a, “good weather” bias when it comes to reporting on baseball prospects.
Fact is, its easier to obtain information on a kid who is playing 75 games a year in good weather than a kid who is playing 25 games a year in so so to bad weather.
What benefited Tony was the fact that he was playing in the baseball baseball conference in the country (the ACC) and a lot of scouts were on hand for most of his games.
From a coverage standpoint though, particularly in Baseball America, there is that “bad weather” bias built in.
They just don’t have a high opinion on kids from the Northeast (even though Tony is from Florida, he played in Boston) and it shows in their rankings/evaluations.
Scouts are scouts though. They are animals! They will go anywhere to see a kid and if they like a certain kid, they will push for their team to take him regardless of his area code.
Thanks SJ.
And thanks Billy.
i like the jump the OF’ers do at the end of a win but i think they shouldn’t do that anymore because of a risk of an injury. 2 words…Kendry Morales.
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