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Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 11, 2010 
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Pretty cool picture to start the day. That’s Derek Jeter running at Camden Yards before last night’s game.
The Yankees went home last night, and I’m right behind them this morning. A quick train ride back to the city, and I’ll be back at the stadium tonight. For now, I wanted to pass along some good stuff happening over at the blog Respect Jeter’s Gangster.
RSG has teamed with the Children’s Health Fund to raffle tickets to a Yankees-Red Sox game for the cost of a donation to a good cause. Check out all the details right here. Basically, you donate a flat amount or sign up for the Yankees Home Run club, and your name gets entered in the raffle for two tickets to the August 8 game at Yankee Stadium.
If you want more pictures, don’t forget about our daily Yankees online gallery.
I can’t post it, but people should check out No Ma**s for their interview with Mark Newman; it’s outstanding. Here’s a sampling:
SJK: Looking at the draft this year, there seemed to be a strong slant towards athletic, premium-position type players. Was that the blueprint heading into the draft, and was that a reflection of where you think the current needs are in the farm system?
MN: No, we approach the draft as we approach signings internationally — we want to get the best players we can. We’d like to get athletic players, which means you’ll probably be drawn to middle-of-the-field guys. Our first 4 picks are athletic guys. Culver is a plus runner. Gumbs is a plus runner. Williams is a plus-plus runner. Culver is a shortstop. Gumbs is a shortshop. Williams is a centerfielder that can be shortshop. They can move.
SJK: When you’re looking at a high school player vs. a college player vs. an IFA, do you evaluate them differently because of age, competition, and cultural differences?
MN: Yes, there’s different ways you project. You’re looking for baseball tools, but also for size and potential for strength. You’re looking for that stuff in all three areas of players. And what you project depends on where they’re at. You project less for a college kid versus a high school kid. And with an IFA, you’re signing 16 and 17-year old kids, so you’re projecting more than with a high school kid in the US.
SJK: Moving away from amateur talent and on to the topic of the current system, would you agree that the system is significantly thinner now than it has been over the last few years?
MN: Oh yeah, we gotta rebuild. We traded Ian Kennedy, Austin Jackson, Phil Coke, Vizcaino, Mike Dunn…with the Yankees, there will always be times when it’s stronger than others because of trades.
SJK: Over the years, I’ve read that you discourage a slider in favor of the curveball. Is that accurate?
MN: To say we discourage a particular pitch is incorrect. All of our players have individual development plans based on their particular abilities. We will try to get someone to develop a breaking pitch and then a second breaking pitch, but not at the same time. If push came to shove, we’d develop the curveball because it has a broader application, but it’s case-by-case depending on the player.
SJK: Adam Warren has handled the FSL so far, and Jose Ramirez has done the same in the Sally League. Any chance of a promotion in the near future for either of them?
MN: Some chance. Jose Ramirez would be more likely, but he’s young and Latin and may need a little bit more time there. This is Adam Warren’s first full season, so we’re not going to go crazy with these guys.
SJK: Looking at Tampa, their relief corps is pretty stacked. You have Jon Ortiz, Pat Venditte, Tim Norton — any chance these guys could be moved up soon?
MN: We’ve got a bunch in Trenton too. They could. Likely not in the next two weeks, but they could at some point.
SJK: Hector Noesi: Biggest surprise in the system this year?
MN: No, he was probably a surprise last year. He had come back from elbow surgery too. He’s a big-time strikethrower. He’s going to be a major-league pitcher.
SJK: What do you think his ceiling is?
MN: Probably a middle-of-the-rotation.
SJK: What’s the timetable of the return for David Adams and Manny Banuelos?
MN: Banuelos is getting close. He’s a couple weeks away. Adams has a high-ankle sprain, and that’s going slowly. Maybe two more weeks.
SJK: Looking at your dynamic catching prospects, Austin Romine has hit the ball very well at Trenton. Did you expect this type of offensive production from him?
MN: He’s gotten better offensively every year. He’s a smart guy and has a really good swing. He has a gameplan and knows how to execute that gameplan
Great picture!
Jeter looks just like Usain Bolt in that photo.
When Jeter hangs ‘em up someday and they make a Bronze of him I would like it to be a replica of one of his patented “jump throws”.
That would be a cool statue.
Great picture and great cause The Children’s Healh Fund. I have been donating to the Home Run Club for 3 years now and it is well worth it. The ONLY thing that is upsetting about this year is that for the first time since it started NO YANKEE has come to the plate to sponsor it. Bernie Williams was the first captain then Johnny Damon took over when he came. This year as Johnny left the CHF went to the Yankees to get a new sponsor. The first person they asked passed and based on everything I have seen and because it is now called the Ynkees HR club and no captain is named no one else has come to the plate. I find this very hard to believe and it makes me sad but nonetheless the things that CHF does not only here in NYC area but around the country really is important.
So I urge you to please sign up for those tickets or donate on your own.
Before I read the caption, I said to myself, “Why do they have a Derek Jeter statue at Camden Yards?”
Actually I need to correct myself it was Mattingly who was the first captain of CHF HR club not Bernie he was after Donnie Baseball
ON THIS DATE JUNE 11, 2003.
Yankees vs Astros ROY Oswalt starter, strains groin warming up before the bottom of the 2nd inning. The Astros used 6 pictures in tandem to throw a no hitter against the Yankees. Peter Munro, Kirk Saarloos, Brad Lidge, Octavio Dotel, Billy Wagner.
-Go Yankees
Cy Arrieta
Watch out
These next 2 series could allow us to pull further away from the Jays & Sox and possibly tie the Rays, as they face the Rox, Phils, and Marlins respectively in the first series.
The next we have the Phils, but it’s Rays vs. Braves, Jays vs. Padres, and Sox vs. D Backs (which doesn’t help my point, but maybe the Socx will underachieve).
The Yanks should continue to take advantage of this part of the schedule.
Arieta was afraid in the 6th to pitch to Cano or Granderson, he intentionally walked them chose Posada and Thames instead to get out of trouble. CY no just lucky.
Last night was rough. Swisher has to make that catch. A bench of Russo, Pena, Moeller and Thames is the stuff of the middle of the pack Triple-A team. That just has to change.
They need to stop babying Jorge and get him in there. Then use some resources for a legit DH who can play at least a little OF. Trade for Austin Kearns? Take a flier on Jermaine dye? I’m open to suggestions.
Pena, Russo and Moeller are 19-92 (.207) and Cervelli is 6-43 (.140) the last 3 weeks, and is clearly exposed playing every day.
That’s just too many easy outs.
Here’s the interview that Betsy was talking about. There’s good stuff in there about Brackman and Betances too. Betances made his first start back last night and was dominant (reports at the game back up what Newman says in this interview).
http://nomaas.org/2010/06/hell.....perations/
86
on the pre game show they reported that Po had a hard workout, catching Phil’s bullpen, doing squats, and going after balls. He sounds anxious to get back, hopefully it is soon.
Country, I’m surprised it allowed you to post the link; I once tried to and it failed. Thanks!
If Newman is to be believed, then there was no reason for the Yankees to scrap Phil’s slider, which was a real plus pitch apparently.
I think the Yanks are just letting things play out right now and letting the trade market develop.
They are 4 games up (loss column) in the wild card right now and only 2 back from the division. There is no reason to rush Posada or make hasty trades yet.
Obviously I think having Posada back catching every day and a legit DH is ideal but I think maybe they are still considering what the best way to make that happen is.
Also, Brett Marshall made his first appearance in an EXT ST game the other day, so hopefully he gets into some games this season
Most teams benches are pretty bad, thats why they are bench players…when injuries happen and they have to play more than they were designed to then you are going to have struggles in those areas….thats why keeping the starters healthy for the long run has been such a priority to Girardi.
That said, I feel pretty confident they will makes a couple moves (as they did last year) to strengthen the bench down the stretch.
86-
you sound a bit frustrated and I can’t say I blame you if you are.
The injury bug has bit hard so far this season.
I think the Yankees should consider adding a BP arm, i.e. Putz, and a left-handed power bat (I was hoping Miranda would be the answer).
Jorge Vasquez has a lot of Power and is raking again ?
If not internal then they need to scour the market.
You want a left-handed DH to take advantage of the short porch in NYS.
“SJK: Are you surprised by what Gardner has done offensively? Has he exceeded your expectations?
MN: No, because we always thought he would be a good offensive player. We thought he would be a starter in the major leagues. We thought he’d play great defense, draw walks, steal bases, be disruptive…we thought he’d do all of that. And each year he’d struggle first time through a new level, and then the next year he’d blow right through it”
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Betsy: thank you for the word on the article. Also, i hope you saw the above paragraph
at at time when the Yankees had no leadoff hitter (Jeter was #2) the Yankees targeted Gardner in Round 3. He never left the NYY radar
That picture is great!
I’m completely fine with last night’s loss. The O’s were bound to win eventually, it happens. Also, Andy’s on the mound tonight and we’re finally home for a long stretch so thats promising.
MTU,
wonder what it would take to get Putz.
You’re welcome, Vinny – and yes, I did
Girardi needs to make the executive decision and rest ARod. He’s playing with fire by keeping him in there with a tight groin. Do they want a Granderson repeat? At the very least, sit him vs. the lowlyl Astros and trust that the pitching and lineup can get it done. That’s 4 days off for ARod in preparation for the Phils.
If the Yankees have any hopes of succeeding down the stretch, ARod’s bat in the four hole is an integral part.
Weird game last night. If Arod is healthy, or Pena is in the game, Jones’ first inning GB is a routine out and its 1-0.
The HR and Scott’s triple got caught up in a jetstream in RF or they are routine outs.
It happens. Its baseball.
The Yankees are 13-2 against Cleveland and Baltimore.
The Red Sox are 10-10 against Cleveland, Baltimore and KC.
The Red Sox blew a 5-0 lead to Cleveland last night, with Jon Lester on the mound. They scored 2 in the 9th after there was 2 outs, nobody on, and 2 strikes on JD Drew to take the lead.
They promptly blew the game in the bottom of the 9th inning as Bard couldn’t close the door.
A little perspective for the bridgejumpers.
As far as crying about the bench, the bench is playing right now, and has been for over a month, due to the injuries.
Yet, the Yankees are still in a great position. Tells me the bench has done its job.
You can’t expect bench players to perform everyday. If they could, they wouldn’t be bench players.
I agree that they really can’t afford to lose Arod for any extended period of time, not in this division.
Blake-
The Sox could make Putz, Jenks, and possibly even Thornton available.
Of the three it would seem the smartest to me to try to pick off Putz.
He is doing well again and Thornton would be too costly.
I am not exactly sure of the WS present or future needs but that is what should be offered in trade.
We have loads of trade chips in the minors.
Maybe we’ll get lucky again with Williams and fleece him again.
Cervelli has been a great bench player….much better than probably any other backup catcher in baseball could have done. Bottom line, Thames, Russo, Pena, etc aren’t supposed to be playing nearly this much and the Yankees are still 4 games clear of a playoff spot at the present time….not too bad.
Pena, Russo and Moeller are 19-92 (.207) and Cervelli is 6-43 (.140) the last 3 weeks, and is clearly exposed playing every day.
___
Or Cervelli is just worn out?
And like every other year, Cashman will fill the bench in July and we will be fine.
good perspective SJ, but you should know the morning crew are not bridgejumpers
Mad Prince, I think they should rest him, as well. In fact, he should probably be DL’d. What is the point of having a half-healthy (assuming it’s just the groin, which I am assuming) Alex for the rest of the year? IF that’s the explanation for his lack of power, then let him heal and come back as good as new. Even if it’s not the explanation, still it’s a good idea to let him heal.
Is Jorge Vasquez in AA or AAA?
He is a 3B/1B guy right?
Maybe he can take ARod’s spot at 3B and DH ARod until this groin thing goes away.
The Yankees can’t have a bunch of weak hitters in the lineup at the same time.
Pena, Russo, and Cervelli all in the lineup will not work; 1 or 2 is OK, not 3.
The Yanks are not much better than a .500 club without ARod as we say last year.
As far as the trade market, its only beginning to form.
We always hear this after a Yankee loss.
“Make trades Cashman, NOW”!!!
Well, its not as simple as it seems.
First off, you have to have guys ON the market.
Second, you have to match up.
If you want to trade Jesus Montero for JJ Putz because you are ticked off the bullpen blows a game on a particular night, I’m sure Kenny Williams will take your call.
If you want to stay calm, let the market form, and see how/if you match up with certain teams, you wait it out.
Its not a secret what the Yankees are looking for. They are looking for another bullpen arm and a bat.
The issue is, which guys will be put on the market and the asking price.
That’s still a few weeks away from really beginning to form.
MTU,
I agree, Thorton is the best of those three best would cost the most. Putz would be a good pickup if they could get him on the cheap…don’t want Jenksy.
That’ll help, Kate but it still leaves a punchless bench out there.
I woulda bet a kidney that the Yanks would never use Cervelli as a pinch hitter in a crucial situation.
Betsy – Thanks for posting!
I’m surprised that over the past few days a lot of people are clamoring for us to obtain Putz. Did you guys see him when he pitched for the Mets?? Then again, a lot of players head to Queens and don’t perform to their abilities, so maybe it was a case of his environment. I don’t know that it would be the worst move.. but I don’t know that he’s the guy to solidify our bullpen either.
Even if the bench players were not playing everyday, it’s still a bad bench. Cervelli is fine for a backup catcher, but Pena? He can’t hit. Thames? He’s been awful since April. Russo? He’s not hit either. So anyone that criticizes the bench is a bridgejumper or a whiner? How nice. Well, so be it, but Cashman needs to get a real DH for this team and yes, he needs to strengthen the bench.
Right now I think we could use an upgrade at DH more than we need another BP arm but both wouldn’t hurt.
A little added production from the DH spot would protect the lineup and add even greater depth.
That’s where I want to put my marbles at the moment.
It should be someone who hits with power from the left side.
Shame, you’re welcome! Putz wants to close -even before he got hurt with the Mets, he wasn’t happy not closing.
Jorge Vasquez is a DH, he’s not a 3B.
yeah, can we stop talking about putz? i don’t want any chance of that actually happening.
Jorge Vazquez is just coming off an injury and isn’t anywhere close to being ML ready.
You can’t DL everybody. Sometimes, an injury is a 3-4 day thing.
If it is, why DL that person and lose him for over 2 weeks. In this division, doing so could end up costing you bigtime.
Its gets down to the severity of the injury. If its just tight, that’s not an injury.
You treat it, give him a few days, and he’s back.
If its something more severe, then you consider the DL.
You can’t have everyday players sitting on your bench for 2 reasons. 1. its a waste of payroll. 2. the players won’t accept the role.
Every team in baseball will struggle at a position when a starter goes down….probably more than the Yankees would. As SJ said, you can’t expect a bench player to replace a starter’s production…thats why they are bench players.
Look at Putz’s numbers this season. He is healthy again and looks good. Pay particular attention to his innings vs. so’s.
You’ll get it.
We arent in last place. we have the second bast record in baseball. because of this fact, cashman will do like he does every year, wait until thje trade deadline and get a player or two for the bench. Sorry but even out yankees arent going to have a bench of 4 or 5 .300 hitters with superpower.
Betsy – Hughes rules (Pleading the Fifth) June 11th, 2010 at 9:42 am
Mad Prince, I think they should rest him, as well. In fact, he should probably be DL?d.
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unless it’s more severe than just tightness, I don’t think it’s a DL type of injury.
SJ — Don’t be so arrogant.
Everyone who voices a criticism or a concern is not a “bridge jumper” who doesn’t understand baseball or the trade market. The bottom line is right now the bench is dreadful and something should be done about it. Carrying Russo, Pena and Moeller at the same time makes little if any sense to me.
Once the decision was made to keep three catchers Russo or Pena should have been sent down for Miranda or an acquired role player.
Alex has lacked power all year; a few days (if Joe can even bear to give him that time off) is going to bring it back?
Betsy, I just read the interview and there’s some really great stuff in there.
They scrapped Phil’s slider because it was a a high-risk pitch injury-wise. They let him throw it again after a few years in the minors and it just wasn’t that good any more. That’s why he developed the cutter which is a true plus pitch.
Erin, I think Alex needs to heal…..period. If they are content with his lack of power, then ok………but giving him a few days off is not going to bring that power back.
If Posada can get behind the plate 3 out of 5, DH 1of 5, and rest 1of 5, I think he will stay fresh. Cervelli 2 out of 5 games would be good.
ARod should be DH’n once or twice a week and Jeter needs to take a DH day once a week too.
The Yankees don’t need to go get a DH they have lots of olders guys to rest 1/2 days and they have Thames against lefties.
Thank God the starters have been healthy.
Patrick, how often did he go back to throwing it in the minors? I can’t believe that you just completely lose all feel for a pitch….if you can throw it, you can throw it. Why didn’t they have Joba scrap his slider?
Once the decision was made to keep three catchers Russo or Pena should have been sent down for Miranda or an acquired role player.
___
This isnt playstation. you cannot just go out and make a trade whenever you feel like it.
“Alex has lacked power all year; a few days (if Joe can even bear to give him that time off) is going to bring it back?”
that has nothing to do with it, its about making sure his injury doesn’t get worse. Thats for the medical staff to determine….if thats a possibility, I know they can’t afford to lose him for any long amount of time.
While the BP has struggled, that is one area that is capable of fixing itself. ChoP and DRob have started to look a lot better lately. If they can return to their 2009 forms the NYY don’t need to add an arm. The bench however is what it is, limited. I realize they are bench players for a reason but the team could really use one bat that puts some fear into the other team, like Strawberry or Justice used to.
MTU, he had great numbers with the Mariners too.. and then went to the Mets and had awful numbers in a pitchers ballpark. I realize he had injury issues that could have been a product of the Mets medical staff (he seemed none too pleased with them, if I recall..). And while his strike out rate is awesome, looking at his career numbers I highly doubt he keeps up this type of production for the rest of the season.
The bench is usually a weakness early in the season. Wait until the end of July and if the bench is still this bad then it’s time to worry.
Don’t forget, the Yanks got Hinske and Hairston to fill out the bench last year. The Yankees tend to start the season with a poor bench and work on it as the season goes on. The only reason it’s been so exposed this year is due to injuries.
I’d say the Yanks ought to look for another guy like Hairston to replace Pena and also for a part time right handed outfielder that can hit. A guy like Dejesus maybe?
I wouldn’t say there is no chance of that happening ID.
If Kenny Williams decides to blow the thing up in Chicago, he will put everybody on the market! lol
He’s crazier than Ozzie in that way.
Its all about matching up.
I always laugh when I hear people talk about the bench of any team for that matter.
Last night, Arod and Gardner were unavailable due to injuries.
You have 13 position players. Take two away, you are down to 11, with 9 of them playing, counting the DH.
You are down to TWO guys.
What exactly is Girardi supposed to do?
If Arod was just sitting out for the night, and Gardner could hit, the bench would have been a lot better.
Unfortunately, that wasn’t the case last night.
You find bench guys during the season on the cheap. That’s how they got Hairston and Hinske last year and that’s how they will look for guys this year.
So far though, considering the injuries that have hit this team for 6 weeks, the bench has done its job.
Its now time for the regulars to do theirs.
I don’t think Hughes developed the cutter because he couldn?t throw his slider; if I recall, he was just tinkering with it one day and it turns out he could throw it. He didn?t go out of his way to try and develop it.
By the way, if you can just lose all feel for a pitch, then who?s to say his curve will ever be the same again?
Blake, I?m suggesting he be DL?d for that reason???
Shame-
I think you hit the nail on the head with respect to Putz being injured with the Mets.
He is healthy now and is producing.
If he doesn’t take too much he would be a very nice addition IMO.
Patrick, how often did he go back to throwing it in the minors? I can’t believe that you just completely lose all feel for a pitch….if you can throw it, you can throw it. Why didn’t they have Joba scrap his slider?
—-
Because Joba was a college pitcher. Phil was drafted out of high school. Studies show that throwing a slider at a young age can be extremely dangerous to the arm. Joba was more fully developed when drafted whereas Phil was not.
Phil’s slider was only a plus pitch in high school – or that’s how the rumor goes. Who knows how good it really was? A plus pitch vs high schoolers is way different than a plus pitch vs major league hitters. When the Yanks let him start throwing it again it just wasn’t that good so he scrapped it and learned the cutter.
SJ, you are talking about one game; the bench is not very good, period, no matter how little or often they are playing. I won?t even count Cervelli. Pena? Russo? Thames? Ouch.
Re: Putz
the outliers in his career appear to be when he was injured. He’s been pretty darn good when he’s healthy.
Betsy,
Thats the point. Nobody’s bench is good, especially early in seasons. If they have to play more than they were designed to then you are going to have some struggles.
Its not being arrogant 86. Read the game threads. Idiocy at its finest after every loss.
Its Bridgejumpers Central.
The bench isn’t “dreadful”. You are wrong.
If it was “dreadful”, they would have fallen off the cliff the last 6 weeks with all of the injuries they have suffered. They didn’t because the bench guys have done a good enough job to keep the team afloat. That’s what bench guys do.
The night before, Russo saved the game with a great catch in LF. That’s a bench player helping the team win.
Moeller is here until Posada is healthy enough to catch.
Cervelli has done a great job as a bench player this year.
Thames has gotten some big hits and slumped lately. It happens.
Mark Teixeira hasn’t hit all year. He deserving of much more criticism than any of the bench guys.
They still won the series and that’s all that matters.
Well, ok Patrick, but I hope the same thing doesn’t happen with that curve; IMO, he needs that to be a plus pitch again.
Blake, one thing has nothing to do with the other. Under the best of circumstances, Pena can?t hit. Thames is highly limited and has been bad since April and Russo has been disappointing. I won?t even count Cervelli since he?s a BUC and isn?t supposed to hit at all anyway.
Betsy,
No, Phil began throwing the cutter after coming to the conclusion that his slider was not effective. A cutter is almost the same as a slider anyways. Think of his cutter as an evolution of the slider.
He didn’t throw it for YEARS, maybe it got worse after he began throwing it again. Maybe it was never that good to begin with. Phil’s curve is fine…
Betsy,
whats your solution?
Betsy,
Tell me how stayed afloat the last six weeks without bench contributions?
Russo won the only game they won at Citi Field with a GW hit.
Cervelli has had big hits all year filling in for Posada.
Thames won a game against the Red Sox with a GW HR.
Randy Winn won one game with a 3 run HR.
Earlier in the year, Ramiro Pena had a 2 run single to win another game.
Russo saved the game the other night with a great defensive play.
I just named SIX games bench guys helped win for this team in the last month/month and a half.
How much more do you want from a bench at this point in the season?
wow. That nom@@s interview, was the article of the year.
when Mark Newman mentioned Nunez, it did make me think of what SJ44 stated yesterday. Unfortunately, Nunez is likely being developed to be traded. Unfortunate. I would rather Jeter be given a 3 year offer (max) and let Nunez be his replacement if he doesn’t like it.
The Yankees face a RH pitcher tonight right?
Just thinking about the lineup without Arod.
Do you move Granderson up to the 2 hole and move Swish to 4 or 5?
Posada is not hitting so I leave him at 6.
The bottom 3 of Cervelli, Russo/Thames, Pena looks weak.
Roles that were supposed to be played:
Thames: Pinch hitter against lefties.
Pena: Give Arod, Jeter, and Cano a day off every now and then
Cervelli: catch a game or 2 a week.
Russo: play in AAA.
Thats how much these guys were supposed to play. They have played significantly more than that and the Yankees have the 2nd best record in baseball, the 2nd best run differential, and the the most runs scored…Given that, its tough to say the bench has done a terrible job this season.
Sigh.
Blake, I don’t know – I would have kept Hinske, but obviously that’s water under the bridge. I just know that Cash has to improve the bench. Well, first he needs to find a DH.
The Yankees didn’t have Hinske this time last year either.
Don’t you guys ever get tired of lecturing Betsy? Every single day it’s the same thing, she”ll never stop.
Doreen – GTLU Stuff & Photos June 11th, 2010 at 10:09 am
Sigh
Well said.
She promotes discussion which is much better than a lot of people do on here.
In theory, one would want to have kept hairston AND hinske. but the jerks they are wanted to try to play everyday.
They couldn’t have kept Hinske. He wanted to go someplace and play, which he is doing in Atlanta.
Guys like Hinske you find in season. Plus, you WANT to find them in season because they are getting AB’s somewhere else and can stay sharp.
Its pretty difficult to be a bench player with the Yankees with so many guys playing everyday.
Guys want to play. That’s how they earn their money. Especially those with incentive laden deals.
The bench has done its job so far this year. Is it great? No but, its won more games for the Yankees than Tex has so far.
Something to think about when you complain about the bench.
Patrick, I?m sure his curve is fine. Is it really a plus pitch? I?ve seen CB post many times how ineffective it is, how hitters just seem to have a bead on it.. He used to have a plus curve and I believe he can again if he just throws it often enough. On the other hand, someone mentioned yesterday how Phil pitches backwards with it, that he doesn?t use it to get outs??.Do you agree?
Roles that were supposed to be played:
Thames: Pinch hitter against lefties.
Pena: Give Arod, Jeter, and Cano a day off every now and then
Cervelli: catch a game or 2 a week.
Russo: play in AAA.
Thats how much these guys were supposed to play. They have played significantly more than that and the Yankees have the 2nd best record in baseball, the 2nd best run differential, and the the most runs scored…Given that, its tough to say the bench has done a terrible job this season.
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DING DING DING!!!!!! Great post blake.
NEWS FLASH – Quality major league ballplayers are not going to sign with the Yankees to be bench players in the off season because their outlook for PT is not good since the regulars play every day when healthy.
Thames is what he is. A RH power bat that’s here to hit lefties. He’s done that. Pena is what he is. An IF who can play 3B, SS and 2B all with PLUS defense. He’s done that. Russo is a valuable piece because he can play pretty much anywhere.
Also, who ever brought up Justice and Straw as quality bench pieces was incorrect. Justice was a full-time starter when he was here. Straw was in a platoon situation and played a ton. They weren’t bench players. They were regulars.
SJ — I agree that Cervelli was having an excellent year off the bench, but carrying Russo, Pena and Moeller at the same time is nuts. Going from Hairston to Russo/Pena has significantly weakened the bench.
Carrying 12 pitchers also weakens the bench and is a waste of a roster spot on a team with quality starting pitching.
The Yanks are succeeding despite this bench. Even with the injuries they’ve had seven regulars almost every game and that’s enough to win with most days but it sure hurt last night.
That’s why I pointed out Miranda should be up in place of Pena or Russo. That’s not playstation, ac1 it’s making use of your 40-man.
I don’t participate in game day threads very often for the reason you pointed out, but there was no critical comment on this threat other than mine when you posted your “bridge jumper” insult.
ac1,
exactly, its really difficult to keep quality players on the bench because quality players get offers to play every day from other teams. Hinske is playing nearly every day in Atlanta.
Ok Betsy lets discuss the curveball. I think you are worried about nothing but this might be an interesting discussion despite your worries.
I’m going to break up this discussion between 2007/2008 and 2009/2010. Because he’s actually a totally different pitcher between those two periods.
1. After the 2008 season Phil completely changed his curveball. It used to be slow and looping, now it’s faster with a tighter break. Change of grip, etc
2. After 2008 he stopped throwing the slider altogether and began throwing a cutter
3. After 2008 his fastball velocity went up (or basically returned to what it used to be while he was in the minors)
4. After 2008 he essentially stopped throwing the changeup (although even before this point he only threw it 5% of the time)
So lets get back to the curve. In 2007/2008 it was a slow looping curve – avg velocity in 2007 was 71.2, avg velocity in 2008 was 72.2. In 2007 the vertical break was -9.7, in 2008 vertical break was -9.0. He threw the pitch ~23% of the time during this period.
In 2009 his curve velocity went up and break went down. Avg velocity in 2009 was 77.1, this year it’s 76.7. Average break in 2009 was -7.6, this year -8.6. He threw the curve 20.6% of the time last year, 13% this year.
So lets look at pitch value to compare.
2007: 2.2
2008: 1.5
2009: -0.1
2010: -0.9
So it’s lost a bit of effectiveness but I’m not convinced that these pitch value numbers have significance. If you recall, in 2007 he threw 2 starts then came back after being injured. In 2008 he again was injured. In 2009 he was mainly in the pen so the curve wasn’t a key pitch for him. And this year he hasn’t thrown it that much.
What does all this mean? I think he should tinker some more with the grip on his curve and throw it more often.
SJ, did I say they hadn?t contributed anything? Pena got one big hit ? are you saying he can hit based on that game? How long do you want their big moments to carry these guys? Did you see Thames #s since April? They?re brutal. I said I wasn?t counting Cervelli, for various reasons.
Stop what, Mr. Jackson? If you hate what I post, then ignore it. If you can’t, that is YOUR problem.
Hairston got offered a chance for more playing time and to play with his brother….he took it.
I think I’m just apprehensive about Putz because I’m always worried when bringing in bullpen arms. I’ve kinda enjoyed the last season or two where we’ve really dug deep into the minors to find guys that can step up and fill out our pen. I’m just distrustful of relievers in general, but I do still believe Cash will get some help out there. I guess in a month or so we’ll have a better idea of who that might be.
Patrick, let me just clarify – I’m not worried about anything
Blake, he got one thing right – I’m tired of being lectured.
I like Phil’s current curveball much better than the big looper.
nobody is lecturing you Betsy, you give a point and get feedback….isn’t that what you want?
Betsy,
You certainly seem worried that Phil’s curve is going to lose effectiveness.
Read my last post, I think it’s pretty interesting how the numbers reflect how Phil has changed as a pitcher. The differences between 2007/2008 Phil and 2009/2010 Phil are really stark.
86,
They called up Miranda and he didn’t hit here. Now, I’m not saying he won’t get another shot. however, if I have a choice of having Posada on the roster or Juan Miranda, I’m choosing Posada everytime.
The tradeoff was, they had to carry Moeller for a few weeks until Posada is ready to catch again. Probably by next week.
Yet, they are 8-3 in their last 11 games.
My point is, the bench hasn’t hurt them. In fact, the bench, and quality starting pitching, is the reason they have been able hold their position since all of the injuries have hit.
if it is any consolation…when we were down visiting my Mom in Rays country, there were all sorts of complaints there too. Maddon puts out too many line ups, 34 different LU in 50 games, Maddon tries to get too cute in some of his moves, this player and that player aren’t performing well, etc etc, and all this from fans of the team w/ the best record in baseball!
I guess some fans are just worriers, and some of us are not
Blake-
I agree with re YMH current curve.
Much tighter and quicker action.
The Big looper was not as strong a pitch because it gave hitter’s too much time to adjust to it.
Make it more like AJ’s. That’s the ticket.
MTU,
I concur.
Betsy,
All I am pointing out is, the bench has won six games for the team in the last 6 weeks.
If you go around baseball, I’d dare say that’s above average.
You can’t have a perfect team.
If you want to have CC, Arod, Jeter, etc, you aren’t going to have 5 million dollar a year players on the bench.
So, that being the case, you take a look at how they have performed, despite having to play more than they planned to play, and they have done the job.
In fact, I would argue, they have probably exceeded expectations given the skill levels of each guy.
Perhaps having more realistic expectations of role and bench players would be more helpful.
I have no problem with the way the bench has played so far. The guy that wasn’t getting the job done was replaced by Russo.
The problem the Yankees have is playing 3 bench guys at the same time.
SJ – I could be wrong but I thought the point he was making was he’d rather have Miranda than Moeller, not Miranda rather than Posada. If I’m wrong, my apologies.
As soon as Posada is cleared for catching duties, Moeller probably gets demoted again anyway, right? And at least some of our bench issues can be addressed.
Blake-
And for heaven’s sake mix in that CU once in a while when the lead is large just for practice.
Don’t just keep that pitch in the back pocket all the time like AJ does.
Variety is after all the spice of life.
I like Phil’s current curveball much better than the big looper.
–
Yep so do I.
The problem with a big looping curveball is that it’s real easy to recognize out of the pitcher’s hand. Everyone talks about how great it is to have massive differences in velocity but I disagree to a point. You want some difference in velocity but if a fastball comes in at 93, then a curveball comes in at 71 the hitter is going to recognize real fast that the pitch is a curve.
Having a curveball in the high 70′s is much better for Phil in my opinion.
Patrick, to be honest, I have no idea what those numbers mean. However, you?re agreeing with me. Maybe he should go back to that slow breaking pitch if it?s losing it?s effectiveness.
I?m afraid of even taking this conversation further, to be honest.
MTU,
AJ threw a few good CU’s last night…I actually think that pitch would benefit him even more than it would Hughes.
Blake, he’s not exactly had a lot of success with it…….
Cervelli .280/.372/.344
Thames .280/.391/.413
Pena .213/.240/.234
Russo .206/.270/.265
Cervelli and Thames have been more than fine. Pena and Russo, not so much. The Yanks will likely do something similar as last year – pick up an outfielder that can hit and pick up a better utility infielder to replace Pena/Russo.
Shame,
I know. I was just pointing out that to have Posada back on the roster right now, they had to carry Moeller, at the expense of Miranda. There was no other way to do it because they don’t view Russo as a guy able to play SS at the ML level.
No, the choice is Miranda or Russo/Pena. I think carrying both Russo and Pena is a mistake.
With Moeller a necessary evil for a day or two more another potential bat is more needed than a second utility guy. I like my chances with Miranda hitting for Thames against a righty with an excellent slider.
Or call up Miranda and move out Gaudin. Two of his last three outings were strictly mop up work anyway.
Patrick,
Totally agree, that big slow curve is ok a couple times a game but if you throw it more than that good hitters are going to start looking for it, recognizing it, and pounding it. I like the way he’s throwing it now.
Blake, if you don?t think I?m yelled at, attacked and lectured on this board on a daily basis because of my opinions, then I don?t know what to tell you. This morning, I haven?t been??well, actually, I have been attacked once, but just by some stupid troll.
I have to withhold my opinions because of all this ? to me, that?s a shame.
“when we were down visiting my Mom in Rays country, there were all sorts of complaints there too. Maddon puts out too many line ups, 34 different LU in 50 games, Maddon tries to get too cute in some of his moves,”
Tell your Mom not to be so critical, they’re in first place with the best record in baseball.
Blake-
It’s the same song and dance with AJ and his CU every season.
In ST he says “I’m working on it and I’m gonna use it”
Then the reg season comes around and it goes right back where it always been into the back pocket.
It’s hysterical too because AJ’s change is a plus pitch.
He is just too hillbilly about it and refuses to use it even when it could help.
It’s really laughable.
The faster you throw a breaking pitch the less it will break. That is because the forward motion of the increased velocity doesn’t give the spin of the ball enough time to make the ball break. The velocity over powers the spin so to speak. All slow curves are big and loopy because the spin has more time to work. I think Hughes has a really good curve. I think when he gets ahead he should bounce more to get hitters swinging at balls. Coney used to make that comment. Ahead 0-2, 1-2 throw it toward the center of the plate so it looks good to a hitter but bounce it so they swing at a ball.
Betsy,
He’s 8-1 with a sub 3 ERA. He’s doing something right…numbers lie and there is no way to account for how his current curveball effects his other pitches. He has thrown some absolute hammers this year at times.
Patrick, I don?t think it?s that great a pitch for him now and CB would corroborate that. I don?t LOVE his cutter (it?s a good pitch, nothing particularly special ? and again, CB has said the same thing) and I?m really disappointed that he refuses to throw his change-up. To me, ST was a complete waste of time as he?s mostly a 2 pitch pitcher (and yes, I know about Nolan Ryan; let?s not even go there) now.
“Blake, if you don?t think I?m yelled at, attacked and lectured on this board on a daily basis because of my opinions, then I don?t know what to tell you. ”
you’re not by me….thats all I can control.
Betsy,
I think the numbers are pretty obvious. I’m only giving you average velocities, amount of break and percentage of pitches thrown. The only weird one is the pitch value which is runs above average for the pitch. I’m not sure how accurate the pitch value stuff is but its as good a metric as any I suppose.
I disagree that Phil’s curveball is losing effectiveness because that’s a bit silly. You can’t draw parallels between the curve and slider because one pitch he stopped throwing for years, the other he’s been throwing 20% of the time for his career. It’s not like he’s going to wake up on the wrong side of the bed one morning and be like “whoops I forgot how to throw a curveball! oh no!”
I do agree that Phil doesn’t use his curve as a put away pitch as much as he should. We’ve seen him get some nice swing and misses with the curve but in general it seems he uses it to set up hitters rather then generate outs. I think that’s a pretty likely conclusion because the pitch value for the curve has never been much higher or lower than zero.
Am I the only one opposed to a 12-man pitching staff?
Mitre has pitched once in 11 games. Robertson just twice in that time. They could easily have handled Gaudin’s work load the last two weeks and allow an additional bat on the bench.
86-
No. You’re not.
How in heaven’s name has Phil Hughes managed to be 8-1?
Miranda was called up and given a nice amount of chances – he’s not really a better option. Would love it if he was.
Russo apparently doesn’t play SS well enough for the Yankees to feel comfortable for him to be the only utility infielder. I’d have to think if he was even fair at it, they’d let him have a shot for a game or two. Would love it if he could.
Moeller needs to be there until Posada is healthy. Right now, Posada can’t be considered a catcher. If Moeller is let go, they have one catcher, who is already a backup and is already playing a little too much.
Gardner’s hurt – Russo & Thames get more playing time.
It’s not by design.
But it hasn’t devastated this team and there is time to make moves patiently rather than out of desperation.
Again, sigh.
Once Posada can get behind the plate again, they need to replace Moeller with another power bat that can hit right hand pitching. Thames has been fine against the lefties but he doesn’t hit righties consistantly. Maybe give Miranda another shot or Colin C.
Posada can only DH once per week as one of the 2 catchers; more than that is risky.
Mark in Tampa
LOL, it was not my Mom being critical! She (and my Dad before he died) are original Devil Rays fans, so anything they do now is gravy!
I was referring to articles in the St Pete paper!
Betsy,
It seems like every day it’s the same story with you. Worrying about Phil Hughes.
The same Phil Hughes that’s 8-1 with a 2.71 ERA averaging a strikeout an inning.
He doesn’t throw a changeup, he’s a 2 pitch pitcher, his cutter isn’t good, his curveball isn’t good. I’m tired of assuaging your worries.
Lets set the record straight. Phil has one of the best fastballs in the league. He has one of the best cutters in the league. His curveball as it stands is average. He doesn’t throw a changeup but he has the potential to if he wanted.
Does any of that matter one bit? No, not even slightly. He’s been one of the best pitchers in the league and that’s all that matters. He’s actually been arguably the best pitcher on the team and will be an all-star.
This discussion is totally played out
YankeesWFAN Bernie Williams performs live at Iridium Jazz club in NYC this wknd. 2 shows a night Fri, Sat, Sun.
What the Yankees really need is another Jerry Hairston type player. Someone that can start in a pinch, can hit a little bit, and can play everywhere without being an automatic out at the plate. It would be great to add someone like Konerko, Berkman, or Dejesus but I wouldn’t give up to get them.
Patrick in CT-
When the timing is right I would like to see Curtis get a shot.
“Perhaps having more realistic expectations of role and bench players would be more helpful.”
This is definitely an impossibility, it wouldn’t be the Internet/LoHud if it weren’t time to freak out over bench and fringe players who don’t do the job 100% of the time. I also like how Kevin Russo is now done as a useful MLer because he’s had such an extended look at playing time & such a long track-record of failure so far in 2010. 34 ABs that last a lifetime apparently.
upstate Kate,
I know, I was just having fun parsing your comment.
I listen to the talk radio down here from time to time, and they go after Maddon pretty good. If they lose 3 in a row, they will start blaming it on his propensity to drink wine rather than beer after games.
* I wouldn’t give up a lot to get them.
upstate kate June 11th, 2010 at 10:22 am
Hello Kate! Yes they are! Last year the Ray’s fans wanted to trade Price so they could get a quality SP. Fans are fickle! That is why they are FANaticS!
Maddon is a great coach for that team. They have a great wealth of talent, and are very young. I am happy their fans are coming out as I believe it is good for baseball to expose some of the other franchises that wallow in a lack of money and never compete. Somehow those team owners are pocketing a lot of cash.
Where is Ruben Sierra when you need him ?
86,
Russo is the 4th OF here right now.
Pena is the only backup SS they have on the roster.
I’m not a big fan of 12 man pitching staffs but, everybody in the AL carries them these days.
The only move they could have made to get Posada back was to send Miranda down and keep Moeller here as the backup catcher.
Betsy,
Really, stop worrying about Phil Hughes. Its every…..single……day.
You are too fixated on it.
He’s 8-1 with an ERA under 3 in the AL.
He’s an All Star pitcher this year.
He’s doing SOMETHING right. Trust me, he is.
Spend one day on here not worrying about Phil Hughes, whether he has enough plus pitches, his ceiling or what the media has to say about him or anything else.
Really, its for EVERYBODY’S sanity at this point.
Blake, never by you……..
SJ44,
Man you are right.. I get sucked into the Hughes discussion every day because he’s one of my favorite players. Enough is enough…
This team will be fine as long as it can stay relatively healthy. I’m still more worried about our bullpen than our bench at this point.
..uh oh.. I just said ‘worried’ !!!
Betsy is just a natural born contrarian Woman.
And as always I have a solution.
I say that Phil Hughes SUCKS.
Betsy. What do you say ?
Ray VT
I agree, Maddon has really changed the culture of that team. He does some kooky things, but it seems to work.
All this talk about pitching reminds me of when I was a kid and attended a baseball camp at SUNY New Platz. It was 1974. The guest instructors were Dick Howser, Rick Dempsey and Doc Medich. On the field I was able to ask questions about CBs etc. But at lunch, I was in line right behind Medich. He was huge, at least he was to me. All I could think of to say to him was,”So, what med school did you go to?” (Pitt). My brush with greatness and that’s all I could think of! Auugh!!
On a team like the way the Yankees are currently constructed I have never thought a 12 man pitching staff was the best and most efficient use of your roster.
Roster spaces are much more valuable than they appear at times.
Poor roster construction cost us at least one game, because Marcus Thames was in RF instead of being replaced by a better defender.
The 13 man pitching staff was IMO crazy when they had that going on for a little while.
It just goes back to the specialization of bullpen roles and the lack of creative thinking from baseball managers.
Everyone else has a 12 man pitching staff, so we should too.
My concern is health. It seems everytime they turn the corner and seem to get healthier, another guy is dinged up.
That’s a concern.
Other than that, the bullpen is showing signs of life. Marte, Park and Robertson have all been better recently. Mitre has actually thrown the ball pretty well.
Joba? Up and down but, that’s Joba. Just have to deal with it and hope he can find consistency.
The starters are solid.
The offense will hit at home.
They have the pieces to make deals when the market opens.
Its just a question of health at this point.
Jamie Moyer has zero plus pitches and he’s still relativy effective at 47.
SJ, whether you want to believe it or not ? I am not worried about Phil Hughes. Why would I be? Is he a stock that I have invested in? No. Am I a member of his family? No. Does his success or failure on the mound affect me in any way? No. Patrick and I were having a discussion and I happen to have a different take on Phil. If that?s a problem for you, then I don?t know what to say.
This Myers dude has 3.07 ERA. I guess Yanks score 5 runs should be enough tonight.
any news for A-Rod?
Blake-
The reason Moyer is so effective at his age is that he found what Ponce De Leon couldn’t.
The fact that his arm is constructed from silly putty helps also.
Its the same discussion every day Betsy.
You seem to need constant reassurance about Phil Hughes. I don’t know why….he’s been one of the five best pitchers in the AL.
You don’t need anymore validation than that from any member of the media or anywhere else.
Just look at the numbers.
Yes, you are “worried” about Phil Hughes. You worry about how the media talks about him. Whether he can be an “ace”. Whether he has enough plus pitches.
Its a daily discussion on Phil Hughes.
After awhile, everything that can be said on the subject has been said.
I think we have reached that point with your fixation on Hughes.
LOL Patrick, because I don?t know that he?s going to be the absolute stud you make him out to be, I?m worrying about him? I like and respect you so I don?t want this to devolve into some kind of back and forth where nothing is accomplished except getting on each other?s nerves.
MTU, I am not a contrarian just because I have different opinions. I?ll try to keep to the company line from now on ? happy?
Blake
I wish that the Phillies/red sox match up was Moyer vs Wakie, battle of the old guys
Ozzie Guillen is one of those people that I find amusing from a distance but would want to kill if he was mine.
The ChiSox drafted his son in the 22nd round and offered him a $50K signing bonus and Ozzie went public about being insulted by that.
Kenny Williams must wonder somedays what he did wrong in a previous life to deserve this life.
Betsy-
I was just trying to be humorous but I guess I failed.
Gotta walk the perro’s. Be back eventualy.
Joba Tips his Cap June 11th, 2010 at 10:55 am
any news for A-Rod?
**********************
Not yet-he was supposed to see Dr. Ahmad this AM.
We’ll probably find out how it went closer to game time. Until then, no news is good news.
New Post w/pitching matchups
Youklis had to leave the game in the 7th because of back spasms, Pedroia is nursing a knee problem, their set up guy is out, Papelbon is activated today. Should be an interesting week ahead for them too.
On twitter Buste rOlney_ESPN is saying the split between Ozzie and Ken Williams is so bad, that it almost came to blows last Tues. Could you imagine Cashman and Joe coming to blows evah?
I see that people are back to calling for Colin Curtis again. In the 10 games that he’s been back, he’ hitting .140. He also hasn’t hit for power all year. He had 6 doubles before getting hurt. NYY would be better off using Huffman or Winfree, though Huffman is the better outfielder and can play a solid 1st base. Another name that’s been floated was Corona. Corona isn’t even as good of a hitter as Pena is. I’d suggest Nunez, but, he’s terrible on defense at 3rd and 2nd. His play at shortstop has been nearly exceptional this year. There is no 3rd baseman at Scranton to cover Rodriguez if needed. Cusick and Robby Hammock are the only other 3rd base types in Scranton. Hammock plays 6 positions including catcher.
FWIW, I think the bench guys, as a group, have performed admirably this year. They’re bench players for a reason afterall, and they’ve contributed and helped win a few games.
I also think Juan Miranda will be back at some point, and get decent playing time. I don’t the Yanks are planning on him being an organizational guy, so he’ll get time to be showcased.