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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Same old Yankees

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 14, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Astros Yankees Baseball

“Old doesn’t mean that they’re out to pasture. Old just means that they have a lot of experience, and they know how to play the game and do a lot of things right.”
Joe Girardi
Born: Oct. 14, 1964

The Yankees have an older team, and while that might be a long-term concern, it doesn’t seem to be hurting the Yankees in the here and now. These are the eight Yankees who will be at least 35 by the end of the year. It’s not a bad group.

Indians Yankees BaseballMariano Rivera
Born: Nov. 29, 1969
The Yankees closer did it again last night. Another hitless inning with two more strikeouts. He’s pitched 22.1 innings this season and he’s allowed nine hits. He’s 15 for 16 in save opportunities. Just watch and enjoy.

Jorge Posada
Born: Aug. 17, 1971
Injuries have been his biggest problem. Surely some of that is an age issue, but some of it has also been the product of fluke foul balls and errant pitches from Baltimore starting pitchers. When healthy, Posada has been as good as ever. He’s hitting .288/.395/.544. That slugging percentage would be the highest of his career.

Andy Pettitte
Born: June 15, 1972
So far, it’s looking like a career year for Pettitte. He’s 8-1 with a 2.46 ERA, and he’s pitched through the seventh inning in each of his past four starts. At this point he seems on his way to his first all-star game since 2001, and he’s a legitimate candidate to start it.

Chan Ho Park
Born: June 30, 1973
Park has already allowed as many home runs as he surrendered all of last year, plus he’s missed significant time with a hamstring injury, and he struggled in his first few outings back from the DL. But since an ugly outing in Minnesota, Park has allowed one run on four hits in his past seven innings. He’s walked three and struck out 11.

Indians Yankees BaseballDerek Jeter
Born: June 26, 1974
He’s not having the same year as last year. To the naked eye, his defense seems to have taken a hit and his offensive numbers are down a bit — especially his on-base percentage — but he’s still a .293 hitter with a .440 slugging percentage that’s only slightly lower than his career mark. He’s on pace for his highest RBI total in 10 years.

Damaso Marte
Born: Feb. 14, 1975
The last time he allowed a hit was May 17 in Boston, when he was asked to pitch 1.2 innings. The last time he was charged with a run was May 14 against the Twins. His job is to get out left-handers, and his WHIP against lefties is 0.91.

Chad Moeller
Born:
Feb. 18, 1975
His role is remarkably limited and might be on its last legs now that Posada is able to catch again, but Moeller has been what the Yankees needed him to be: An experienced just-in-case option behind the plate. He’s made four starts and has a double in two of them.

Alex Rodriguez
Born: July 27, 1975
After a slow month of April, Rodriguez came back with a .330/.408/.534 slash line in May. He was hitting .317 with two home runs and eight RBI in his past 10 games before the hip flexor issue. His power numbers are down, but he’s still on track for another 100-plus RBI season. Could be better, and might get better.

Associated Press photos of Jeter and Pettitte, Rivera and Jeter again.

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271 Responses to “Same old Yankees”

  1. Bret the Hitman June 14th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    “Nope. He’d be the regular DH and an occasional outfielder in 2010 and 2011.”

    1) Chances are he’d be a complete malcontent if that was the case

    2) He doesn’t really hit enough to be a guy you’d want to lock in as a regular DH anyway.
    **************

    1) Maybe, maybe not. Not everyone is a jerk like Randy Johnson and Gary Sheffield.

    2) He hits well enough for this particular lineup which needs a 2 hitter that enables them to put Swisher behind Cano and Posada. He certainly hits better than JD who was earmarked supposedly for 2010 and 2011 as the DH/occasional OF.

  2. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Park can’t get off this roster soon enough…

  3. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    You are twisting my words, where did I say this season is in line with his career slash numbers? I said that with a correction in BABIP his numbers will look similar to his lines in 2006 and 2007.

    So tell me, is Austin Kearns the only mediocre outfielder you aren?t in love with? Maybe if he hit lefty he?d fit in with the rest of your mancrushes
    ——————————————————————-

    Patrick,

    I don’t believe I twisted your words. Your comment said nothing about BABIP, or any sort of qualifiers at all…but that’s neither here nor there.

    Austin Kearns is not a mediocre outfielder. He is an awful player who is having an outstanding first half. He’s Aaron Small a few years ago, RA Dickey this year, Shane Spencer circa 1998…

  4. G-C June 14th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    “Park can’t get off this roster soon enough…”

    Not sure about that. He’s been really good of late.

    I think he can be a real asset down the stretch.

  5. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Park off the roster? How bout Bad Gaudin?

  6. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    ac1 – nothing in this article talks about gaudin. stay on topic.

  7. G-C June 14th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    “Austin Kearns is not a mediocre outfielder. He is an awful player who is having an outstanding first half. He’s Aaron Small a few years ago, RA Dickey this year, Shane Spencer circa 1998…”

    Calling Austin Kearns an “awful” player and comparing him to those players is tremendously hyperbolic and wrong.

    He has a career .258/.355/.431 batting line. While he hasn’t lived up to the lofty expectations some had for him, he hasn’t had a bad career either. When he’s been healthy, which he never has consistently stayed, for the most part he has hit.

  8. Joe from Long Island June 14th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Oh, that we would all age gracefully – right, GB? :)

    On a more serious note, I’d think they’d be in the hunt for an OF, especially with Ellsbury and his rib injury. Question is whether they have what it takes to make a deal, and how much they want that particular player to part with their better young players (Bucholz, Bard, Kelly).

  9. Joe from Long Island June 14th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    I’m talking about Boston, of course.

  10. Bret the Hitman June 14th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Park’s stuff does look good as of late.

  11. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
    ac1 – nothing in this article talks about gaudin. stay on topic.

    ___

    And nothing in this article talks about any of these players being dropped from the roster so stay on point.

  12. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    On another note, I know speaking ill of Jorge Posada is a criminal offense on this board, but all his whining about DHing simply illustrates why he’s not the great team guy fans seem to think he is.

    The only thing that his whining about “not being a DH” is doing is making Brian’s job a year from now that much easier. Assuming that Montero and Romine continue to progress (and stay with the organization) the only way Posada stands a chance, and it’s a slim one at that, of remaining with the Yankees after next season is as the DH. If that’s not a role he’s ready or willing to embrace then he’ll be shown the door.

  13. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Chip,

    I said,

    “Yes, he’s having some luck this year but if you look at his previous seasons the numbers this year aren’t all that out of line.”

    What the hell do you think I mean by “some luck”!? That’s referring directly to his unsustainable BABIP.

    Austin Kearns has a career 106 OPS+. That’s by definition a mediocre outfielder.

  14. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Austin Kearns is not a mediocre outfielder. He is an awful player who is having an outstanding first half

    he is much better than Ryan church

  15. Jerry-NJ June 14th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    # Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Park can’t get off this roster soon enough…

    - – - – - – - -

    these are the kinds of comments that make the ‘Responses’ section unreadable.

  16. NYY626 June 14th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    I saw that pic of Jeter and Andy on saturday and made it my wallpaper on my laptop. :swoon:

    Our “old” guys havent been too shabby. I still cant believe Jorge hit 2 grandslams in a row. Wow.

  17. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Posada said he will do what’s best for the team when asked, but doesn’t WANT to DH over Catching. Posada will DH more and he will get used to it so it doesnt affect his offense. But we should have a problem with the guy wanting to catch too. I still believe Posada is the true leader of this team.

  18. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    “1) Maybe, maybe not. Not everyone is a jerk like Randy Johnson and Gary Sheffield.”

    Not about being a “jerk”. He’ll be 31 when he becomes a free agent, and his value will be GREATLY increased if playing everyday as a solid outfielder AND good bat.

    You can’t begrudge anyone wanting to maximize their value.

  19. SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Park’s last 5 outings (May 28-June 13)….

    7 IP, 4 hits, 1 ER, 3 BB, 9 K’s.

    Velocity has even gotten up to 92 MPH.

    He’s throwing the ball much better of late. As are Marte, Robertson and Chamberlain.

  20. NYY626 June 14th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    and by in a row, i meant on back to back days, obviously. lol

  21. Bret the Hitman June 14th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Chip,

    I agree about Posada. He will not be kept as the catcher after 2011.

    They will keep open DH for Arod, Jeter and possibly be able to work in both Montero and Romine as a result.

    Do you think Posada will sign somewhere else after 2011 or go the same route as Bernie, Brosius, and O’Neill?

  22. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    “Assuming that Montero and Romine continue to progress (and stay with the organization) the only way Posada stands a chance, and it’s a slim one at that, of remaining with the Yankees after next season is as the DH. If that’s not a role he’s ready or willing to embrace then he’ll be shown the door.”

    Chip, I’m reasonably certain given his age and recent injury history, that very few expect Jorge Posada to be tendered an offer in 2012 (as a catcher, DH, combo or otherwise), and I wouldn’t count Brian Cashman or Jorge Posada among them.

    Jorge Posada may well be in the Yankee dugout in 2012, but it’ll be as a bench coach.

  23. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    jerry – get over yourself, OK? i don’t get disallusioned by a guy pitching 7 good innings. he’s terrible, he only gives up long balls. how can that be trusted in a tight spot in a playoff series?

  24. SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Posada is more of a team guy than just about anybody on the team.

    The team is BETTER when he is the fulltime catcher.

    He knows it. Girardi knows it. Cashman knows it.

    He has worked non-stop with Cervelli since the start of the season.

    He was the guy on the backfield, a place he didn’t need to be, with Montero, whipping his butt into shape in the Spring when Montero reported well overweight.

    If that’s not a “team guy”, I don’t know what is.

    Its very difficult to prepare to be a DH in season. Especially for a catcher who is used to being the center of the action.

    His disdain for it at the present time is a GOOD thing. That’s what has gotten him back on the field sooner than expected from his injury.

  25. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    G-C,

    You’re not talking about a player who has played 100 games a season all his career. He’s had 8 years in the majors before this one, only playing a “full” season 2 times (he played 112 games in 2005 and 107 games as a rookie in 2002), more often than not, he doesn’t even play half a season.

    Now, you can look at his numbers in those two healthy years and say “geez, if this guy can stay healthy he would be a tremendous player” but you could also say that about Nick Johnson. The Yankees gambled once this year on an oft-injured player’s ability to stay healthy – they won’t do it again this season.

    And, in my opinion, if you can’t even take the field 50% of the time your team plays then yeah, you’re an awful player.

  26. blake June 14th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Chip,

    I think Posada had some quotes a couple weeks ago saying exactly the oposite of what you are saying…pretty much that he knows his career will soon begin a transition to more DH time.

  27. Bret the Hitman June 14th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    I mean, can you picture Posada on the Mets?

    I can’t.

    I think he’d retire.

  28. Bret the Hitman June 14th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    Blake,

    Posada went against those remarks a couple days ago saying how he doesn’t like DH at all or something to that effect.

  29. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
    Posada is more of a team guy than just about anybody on the team.

    The team is BETTER when he is the fulltime catcher.

    He knows it. Girardi knows it. Cashman knows it.

    He has worked non-stop with Cervelli since the start of the season.

    He was the guy on the backfield, a place he didn?t need to be, with Montero, whipping his butt into shape in the Spring when Montero reported well overweight.

    If that?s not a ?team guy?, I don?t know what is.

    Its very difficult to prepare to be a DH in season. Especially for a catcher who is used to being the center of the action.

    His disdain for it at the present time is a GOOD thing. That?s what has gotten him back on the field sooner than expected from his injury.
    —————————-

    That’s BS – this is a vastly better, not a little better, but VASTLY better defensive team with Cervelli behind the plate than Posada, especially Posada with a bad foot.

    As for being a team guy, a team guy does what he’s asked and keeps his gripes to himself, he doesn’t go to the media with his whining about the way the manager is using him.

  30. mick June 14th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    SJ
    You are so much better than that guy who impersonates you on the game thread.

  31. JoeyA June 14th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    Out of the core 4, Posada seems like the only one with even a remote chance of wearing a different uniform in the tail-end of his career.

    Catcher is not a position to “deal with” a below-average defender. He should realize this team has 2 (3 if counting Cervelli) high-level prospects ready to make an impact as early as next season.

    The way Girardi accepted his dminished role when bringing in Jorge, Jorge should embrace the opportunity to mentor these kids while he DH’s and leave a lasting legacy with this team well after his playing days are over

  32. SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    As far as where Posada will be after 2011? He just may retire.

    He doesn’t need the money, the kids are getting older, and he will be 41-42 at that time.

    I would expect him to spend more time DH’ing next year and use the entire winter to prepare for that role.

    As far as Montero catching a lot here next year….how ’bout we see how he does in the second half of the AAA Season.

    Right now, unless he picks it up, I wouldn’t assume he spends a lot of time in NY next season. He’s still a work in progress.

  33. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    What the hell do you think I mean by ?some luck?!? That?s referring directly to his unsustainable BABIP.

    I assumed you meant he’s had some luck in that he’s stayed off the DL, his home away from home.

  34. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    “how can that be trusted in a tight spot in a playoff series?”

    Is there a play-off season beginning in June that we’ve all somehow overlooked?

    There is 99 games left to play. Any impression Park has left in the first 63 games he can change and reverse over the next 99.

    If he’s highly effective the remainder of the year you going to be campaigning to keep him off the play-off roster because what he did in April?

    Do some of you guys understand what a 162 season is?

  35. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    SJ -

    If Montero and Romine aren’t ready next season I find it more likely that the Yankees will bring in a catcher on a 1 year deal and have that player split time with Cervelli than that Jorge will be the primary catcher in 2011

  36. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    stuckey – i’m well aware of how long the season is, don’t talk at me like one of the troll idiots.

    i’m also aware that park has been pitching like this for 15 years. is that going to change in the next 100 games? i don’t think so.

  37. Bret the Hitman June 14th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Catcher is not a position to “deal with” a below-average defender.
    ***********
    That’s the thing after 2011. He’ll be at retirement age and the Yankees are stocked at the position. His skills are diminished and he’s an injury risk but as a catcher, some team might offer him a 2 year deal after 2011.

    Maybe the Mets.

    So maybe Posada retires, maybe he takes the 2 year deal with the Mets.

    Either way, he won’t be the DH in 2011 or beyond…not after hearing his latest comments on DH’ing. He doesn’t want to do it. He has too much pride and if someone views him as a catcher beyond 2011, he just may break.

  38. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    last year was the first time in his career Park was averaging less than a home run every 2 appearances.

  39. SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    As usual chip, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Jorge Posada isn’t some rookie who has to sit in the corner and keep his mouth shut.

    He’s one of the cornerstone guys on the team. He has a RIGHT to talk.

    Blake is right, Posada has talked often about knowing his time to DH is coming up.

    He, nor Girardi for that matter, doesn’t believe that time is now.

    Girardi has talked ad nauseum the past week about getting “Jorgie back behind the plate everyday”. He fills just about every writers notepad with that quote daily.

    Don’t believe me? Ask Chad.

    The team is much better with Posada behind the plate. He knows the league better than Cervelli. The lineup is longer with him in it, and when he’s catching, he’s hitting better.

    His career numbers back that up.

    He is the embodiment of a team player.

    If he wasn’t, they would be looking to phase him out as opposed to keeping him in his current role with the team.

  40. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Patrick

    I’ll make a prediction right now: End of the season David DeJesus will have better numbers than Austin Kearns…and he’s going to play in at least 30 more games than Kearns too.

  41. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    That’s BS – this is a vastly better, not a little better, but VASTLY better defensive team with Cervelli behind the plate than Posada, especially Posada with a bad foot.

    As for being a team guy, a team guy does what he’s asked and keeps his gripes to himself, he doesn’t go to the media with his whining about the way the manager is using him.

    __

    He didnt go to the media. They ask and he is honest. He knows when the time comes to be a DH, he can choose to be our DH or there is no place for him. My guess, after 2011, he will resign as our DH (if he is still hitting)…

  42. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    ” i’m well aware of how long the season is, don’t talk at me like one of the troll idiots.”

    I’ll make you a deal, stop worrying about the October roster in June based mostly on April performances, and I’ll extend you that courtesy.

    “i’m also aware that park has been pitching like this for 15 years. is that going to change in the next 100 games? i don’t think so.”

    So 2009, his first year as a reliever is irrelevant.

    Sorry dude, I don’t see myself extending that courtesy anytime soon.

  43. Erica in NY June 14th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    NYY626 June 14th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
    I saw that pic of Jeter and Andy on saturday and made it my wallpaper on my laptop. :swoon:

    Our ?old? guys havent been too shabby. I still cant believe Jorge hit 2 grandslams in a row. Wow.

    ***********

    Jorge is one of Erica’s Avengers. He helped me win the week! Woohoo!!!!

  44. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    stuckey – are you looking at a body of 70 innings of work and telling me i’m an idiot for looking at 2000 innings? you are hilarious.

  45. blake June 14th, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    Brett,
    Did you expect him to like it? Do you think Jeter will like it when he can no longer play SS? Not how these guys are wired and its part of what makes them great.

  46. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    Either way, he won’t be the DH in 2011 or beyond…not after hearing his latest comments on DH’ing. He doesn’t want to do it. He has too much pride and if someone views him as a catcher beyond 2011, he just may break.

    ___

    Again you werent listening. You were hearing what you wanted to hear then tuned out. Posada said he is not READY to DH, not that he wont do it. Once that is his defined role, he will be better prepared to do it. If Posada is still producing, they will find a place on this team for him.

  47. SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    chip,

    With all of the catchers in the organization right now, why would the Yankees bring in a catcher in the off-season? That is an absurd allocation of resources.

    Barring a serious injury, Posada can still catch 75-90 games next year, with Cervelli, Montero and/or Romine (whomever emerges) catching the rest of them.

    They aren’t bringing in guys in a position they are stacked in, talent-wise.

    They have the luxury of not having to rush Montero and have a HOF catcher and a very good backup in place.

    Its the deepest part of the organization at the present time. They don’t need to add to it.

  48. Erin June 14th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    I love that picture of Derek and Andy. In fact, that’s currently the background on my computer at home. :)

  49. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Jorge is a vital part of this team, and having him catch, bad defense and all is vastly superior to having cervelli back there because it allows the team to field a real DH and have a circular lineup.

    I always envisioned having Cervelli behind the plate to feature some kind of defensive wow factor but its readily apparent that outside of Andy and CC sometimes our pitchers kind of suck at holding runners and don’t give Cervelli much of a shot to put his arm to good use. I’m not talking Red Sox level ignoring the runner, but Andy is the only guy that can shut down a running game. CC can limit it, and Hughes throws a lot of hard stuff, but Javy and AJ throw too many breaking pitches and the movement on AJ’s pitches takes the catchers out of good throwing positions when he misses spots.

    If our pitchers aren’t going to be effective in holding runners go with the guy that is going to bang 20-30 HRs.

  50. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    I see a place on this team for all 4 of our catchers. Posada can DH and play some 1B. Cervelli can catch and be a back up IF (will have to learn a bit but can already play 3rd). Montero can DH/C, Romine can C. While it is a stretch, all 4 can be active regular contributors to our 2011 team, or more likely 2012.

  51. rconn23 June 14th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Chip,

    You simply have no idea what you’re talking about regarding Posada.

    Cervelli has done an admirable job filling in for Posada, but the longer he plays the more he gets exposed. His offensive numbers are dropping, he’s better, but not much better at throwing out runners than Jorge and his game calling skills are questionable.

    Jorge Posada is a Hall of Fame caliber player. The only reason he’s only the THIRD best cather in Yankees history is because two guys named Bill Dickey and Yogi Berra played for the franchise.

    It’s a better team when Jorge’s bat is in the lineup and he’s catching. The lineup is just much more formidable. This is not up for debate.

    It’s amazing the hatred that’s spewed on this site for a guy who has been such a great player and has meant so much to this franchise.

  52. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Girardi has talked ad nauseum the past week about getting ?Jorgie back behind the plate everyday?. He fills just about every writers notepad with that quote daily.

    Yes, I’ve read the quote and usually it was in direct response to Jorge telling reporters that he doesn’t consider himself a DH and doesn’t like doing it.

    If he wasn?t, they would be looking to phase him out as opposed to keeping him in his current role with the team.

    Well that’s just silly. Have you not noticed the number of high ceiling catching prospects that this club has brought in over the last 3 years?

    It’s arguable that Brian’s worst contract in the last 4 years is the one he gave Jorge before the 2008 season.

  53. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    chip – how is that arguable? if he didn’t bring posada in then we would have 2 backups playing, waiting for the prospects to be ready.

  54. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    It?s arguable that Brian?s worst contract in the last 4 years is the one he gave Jorge before the 2008 season.

    AJ Burnett. Damaso Marte.

  55. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    It’s arguable that Brian’s worst contract in the last 4 years is the one he gave Jorge before the 2008 season.

    ___

    Only arguable because you are trying to convince us you are right. NO ONE AGREES WITH YOU!

  56. Bret the Hitman June 14th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    blake June 14th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
    Brett,
    Did you expect him to like it? Do you think Jeter will like it when he can no longer play SS? Not how these guys are wired and its part of what makes them great.
    *****

    No. I think he’s totally justified. I think Posada’s a strong character guy. But I also believe that his pride will be part of the reason why he won’t be extended beyond 2011 because the Yankees will want him to be the DH while some other team views him as a catcher and is willing to go multiple years.

  57. Giuseppe Franco June 14th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Cervelli hasn’t demonstrated he’s an everyday catcher.

    It’s obvious he was wearing down while Posada was on the DL and then limited to DH duty.

    And one can’t say with certainty that this is a better offensive team with Cervelli behind the plate and Posada as the DH because both have struggled in those perspective roles.

    Yankee catchers hit only .200 during Posada’s absence and Posada himself is a career .200 – .210 hitter from the DH role.

    They need Posada behind the plate. I like Cervelli as much as the next guy, but he’s not demonstrated he can be a guy who catches everyday.

  58. vblade June 14th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    The worst contract Cashman dished out in the last 4 years is Marte, hands down. No other team pays that much for a LOOGY. Some don’t even pay that much for closers.

  59. SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Here’s a Posada story to show you what a “non-team player” he is.

    When Montero showed up 20+ lbs overweight, Posada is the guy who took him aside, on his own, to tell him it was unacceptable.

    He told him he would meet him on the backfield every morning and work with him to help lose the weight.

    He spent the entire Spring working with Cervelli, Montero and Romine.

    These are the guys competing to replace him.

    If he wasn’t a team player, or was insecure in his standing with the team, he could just go about his business, leave the field at 1, play golf, and spend time with the family.

    He didn’t do that. He worked with those kids to show them what it takes to make it at the major league level.

    It amazes me the hatred some “fans” of this team have for Jorge Posada.

    Its sad to read such nonsense about a great player who is one of the Core Four guys of the franchise.

  60. GreenBeret7 June 14th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Posada never said he wouldn’t DH. He said that he doesn’t know what to do to keep warmed up in between at bats because he hasn’t had a lot of experience trying to. He’s always played. He said that he’ll have to figure out if he wants to continue playing down the line. He knows that he’s no longer a 135-140 game a year catcher any more.

  61. Wave Your Hat June 14th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Chip probably thinks the Yanks would have done just fine with Jose Molina.

  62. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Cervelli has struggled? .282 with 27 RBIs? Batting some ridiculous average with RISP? That’s struggling?

  63. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    With all of the catchers in the organization right now, why would the Yankees bring in a catcher in the off-season? That is an absurd allocation of resources.

    Well I’m guessing that if Austin Romine and Jesus Montero aren’t ready for the show then probably Hishagowa and JR Murphy won’t be ready either. And signing a player like Miguel Olivo or Rod Barajas to a 1 year deal doesn’t actually block anyone. All it does is move Jorge to DH.

    Tell you what – look at the last three seasons, since he (the great and loyal Yankee) used a PR storm and the empty threat of a meeting with the Mets to back Cashman into a corner, and find me the year when he has been injury free – then guarantee that the 2011 version of Jorge is going to be able to catch the majority of games for the club…

  64. SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Posada’s contract is the worst contract Cashman has given out?

    Wow, Chip, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

    Man, its amazing.

  65. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    As Francesa just said, “Everytime Jorge goes out there and catches now he gets hurt.”

  66. vblade June 14th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    # ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Cervelli has struggled? .282 with 27 RBIs? Batting some ridiculous average with RISP? That’s struggling?

    —————————-

    .183 BA/.299 OBP/.197 SLG/.496 OPS in the last month.

  67. rconn23 June 14th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    SJ44,

    And “hatred” is indeed the right word. I’ve never seen the level of vitriol directed to a Hall of Fame caliber player, a cornerstone of four championship teams, and one of the great players in Yankee history.

    It’s absolutely illogical.

  68. Wave Your Hat June 14th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    “Cervelli has struggled? .282 with 27 RBIs? Batting some ridiculous average with RISP? That’s struggling?”

    This is struggling:

    .183/.299./.197/.496

    Which is Cervelli’s slash line over the last 28 days in 88 plate appearances.

  69. Giuseppe Franco June 14th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    # ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Cervelli has struggled? .282 with 27 RBIs? Batting some ridiculous average with RISP? That’s struggling?

    ————-

    What were his numbers when Posada went on the DL?

    We’re not talking about his numbers as the backup. We’re talking about his numbers when he was forced to play everyday for that period of time.

    His numbers declined considerably.

  70. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    How bout Xavier Nady for the stretch? Cubs are worthless.

  71. Bronx Jeers June 14th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    It’s not the years, it’s the mileage

    And Jorge isn’t too bad in the mileage department. A semi- late bloomer who hasn’t caught a hell of a lot over the last couple of seasons. With all the young talent the org. has at catcher, Jorge’s still the best option by far.

    I’d fully expect him to be the opening day starter in 2011.

  72. The Philly Phitins June 14th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Did you notice Teixeira was left out of the thread, because it would depress the Yankees to read about the 180mm joke. Cano is in the Phillies cross hairs, watch how Doc handles him!

    Yankees the Phillies Will win game 1, bank on it. Unlike CC Doc is an automatic win. Anytime CC throws 18-20 pitches his 1st inning, we know he’s not on. So look for the pitch count to tell you what’s in store for the Yankees. Doc of course will have a low pitch count into the 8th, heck he might just complete another game.

    Go Phitins!

  73. G-C June 14th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Burnett a bad contract Jerkface? Not so sure about that. Seems like fair market value to me for other pitchers of his caliber, and to everyone’s surprise, he’s become a durable innings eater.

    Burnett’s contract looks pretty good right now.

  74. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
    Posada?s contract is the worst contract Cashman has given out?

    Wow, Chip, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

    Man, its amazing.
    ——————–

    Nice editing job…

    The line was actually, Jorge is the worst contract Cash has given out in the last four years.

    If you would care to debate it I would welcome that.

    He’s certainly signed worse players, no doubt – Randy Winn, Nick Johnson….but those are short term deals for less money and well within range of the Yankees doing (as they did with Winn) just eating their mistake.

    Find me a contract that Cash has given out since the 2007 off-season that has seen less return on the investment?

  75. Patrick from CT June 14th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Now we are back to Posada DH’n and Cervelli catching?
    OK that’s fine. It’s going well lately so not much else to talk about I guess.

    I’ll say this, It was great to see Posada back behind the plate yesterday.
    I think we will see Posada and Cervelli split time for another week or two will Moeller hanging around. After that, I believe Posada will be catching 3 out of 5 of the games and DH’n 1 of 5. Can’t have him DH more than that without a 3rd catcher.

    Next year I do see Posada not being counted on for more than 50% of the catching. Will they carry a 3rd catcher next year so he can DH? Not likely with all the other older guys needing to DH.
    I hope Jeter stays healthy enough to play in the field because Arod is going to end up DH’n the last 5-6 years of his contract from the looks of it.

  76. SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Chip,

    If you need Mike Francesa for backup on your points, you are too far gone! lol

    Jorge isn’t “hurt”.

    The guy is sore after catching for the first time in a month.

    Believe it or not, if a 25 year old caught his first game in a month, he would also be sore after that game.

    Your hatred of Posada is more bizarre than your fixation of below average OF’s from bottomfeeder teams you wanted the Yankees to sign in the off-season.

    Its hard to understand.

  77. rconn23 June 14th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    It appears Chip is trying to bring back the Posada Truthers.

    Next will be a long diatribe from a familiar poster about how we shouldn’t denegrate posters who favor Cervelli, Jose Molina – hell, why not Sal Fasano or Kevin Cash – over Jorge Posada.

    Ah, it all sounds so familiar.

  78. Giuseppe Franco June 14th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    # Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    As Francesa just said, “Everytime Jorge goes out there and catches now he gets hurt.”

    —————

    Yes, Francesa is the first guy I look to for comprehensive baseball discussion.

    The guy doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the wall.

    BTW, weren’t you the guy who didn’t want Andy Pettitte back after the 2008 season?

    That would have been a smooth move. The guy has been their second best pitcher over the past 12 months.

  79. Joe from Long Island June 14th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Chip, let me get this straignt. You’re using Mike Francesa as proof of your argument?

    I thought you were nuts before. This takes the cake. Mike Francesa, a guy who makes his living by saying crazy things on air just to get attention.

    Wow.

  80. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Chip unless you are trolling us, your opinion on Jorge Posada exposes you as completely clueless.

  81. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    oh god, philly trolls? it will be fun to remind them who’s been beating up halladay’s ERA for the last 5 years.

  82. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    rconn23 June 14th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
    SJ44,

    And ?hatred? is indeed the right word. I?ve never seen the level of vitriol directed to a Hall of Fame caliber player, a cornerstone of four championship teams, and one of the great players in Yankee history.

    It?s absolutely illogical.
    ——————

    I don’t HATE Posada.

    I respect what he has done for the Yankees over the course of his career, but I find this talk about him being a great team guy to be garbage.

    How many pitchers, quality pitchers, has he clashed with because he wants to call the game and not let the pitchers throw?

    How many times has Girardi tried to help the club and help Jorge by getting him out from behind the dish every so often only to have Posada throw him under the bus in the press?

  83. SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Cashman got no return on his investment with Posada last year Chip?

    How about this year to date? His numbers aren’t good?

    I mean, really, if you think that was a “bad” contract, let’s just agree to disagree.

    It hasn’t been a bad contract at all. Especially for a guy who is still in the upper echelon of catchers in the game.

  84. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    oh god, philly trolls? it will be fun to remind them who’s been beating up halladay’s ERA for the last 5 years.

    __

    The Red Sox?

  85. vblade June 14th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Philly troll fails at being obnoxious, but succeeds at being hilarious with his stupidity.

  86. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Burnett a bad contract Jerkface? Not so sure about that. Seems like fair market value to me for other pitchers of his caliber, and to everyone?s surprise, he?s become a durable innings eater.

    Burnett’s contract is 1 year too long and like 2-4 mil AAV more than AJ should have got. He is going into his third straight season of appearing to be injury free. I am very pleased by that, but the yankees are paying 16.5 mil for a 4ish era pitcher.

    Its certainly a worse contract than Jorge Posada. Who provides remarkable value when he is behind the plate. He has been so durable in his career that I have to give him a pass for injuries.

  87. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Burnett a bad contract Jerkface? Not so sure about that. Seems like fair market value to me for other pitchers of his caliber, and to everyone’s surprise, he’s become a durable innings eater.

    Burnett’s contract looks pretty good right now.

    Disagree.. the Yanks are paying Burnett #1 starter money and he’s been pretty mediocre.

  88. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    To the person who mentioned Posada threatening to go to the Mets, remember Rivera also threatened to leave that same offseason.

  89. Bronx Born June 14th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Chip, do you just say this stuff to get everyone upset? I cannot believe even you could be this dumb. You just have to have a secret agenda to waste everyone’s time with your nonsense, otherwise, why would you do it?

  90. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Not a troll

    Not clueless

    Not confusing Mike Francesa with an expert (by the way John Flaherty who I think does qualify as an expert on catching agreed with Francesa with the caveat – But Jorge’s going to keep catching because Jorge has earned it)

    Just not drinking the Jorge is a great guy and we should all genuflect at the altar of #20 Kool-Aid.

  91. blake June 14th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Derek and Mo don’t have have 5 rings without Jorge….plain and simple.

    If you watch the games its not too difficult to notice the impact he makes.

  92. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    surpisingly enough, halladay’s worst ERA is against texas…

  93. rconn23 June 14th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    Less return on the investment? Jorge Posada?

    I guess being the second best cacther (.885 OPS last year) in the AL behing only Joe freakin Mauer and being the receiver on a World Series winner doesn’t count for anything.

    He was hurt in 2008, and strangely enough, the team didn’t make the playoffs. Let’s see how this season plays out before we make ridiculous pronouncements like that.

  94. G-C June 14th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    “How many pitchers, quality pitchers, has he clashed with because he wants to call the game and not let the pitchers throw?”

    Can you name me some? Please. Who has Posada clashed with?

  95. Bret the Hitman June 14th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    The worst contract Cashman gave out was to Mark Teixeira.

    He’s not a 23 million dollar upgrade over Swisher.

  96. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    For burnett, in contract comparison, he is pitching better than John Lackey who has the same contract.

  97. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Bronx…

    I have an opinion to Jorge, it doesn’t have to be a popular one for me to defend it.

  98. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Tex has been worth every penny. 2nd in MVP last year, and his Defense has helped this team and the right side of the IF look much better. His average this year is bad, but he is still critical to this team.

  99. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    chip – for the purposes of discussion, it could make sense. big help.

  100. Bret the Hitman June 14th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    The Burnett contract was market.

    Glad they passed on Lowe.

  101. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    G-C June 14th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
    ?How many pitchers, quality pitchers, has he clashed with because he wants to call the game and not let the pitchers throw??

    Can you name me some? Please. Who has Posada clashed with?
    ————————
    Randy Johnson
    Mike Mussina
    El Duque
    AJ Burnett
    Boomer Wells

    That’s two hall of famers and three pretty good guys without really trying…

  102. SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    He hasn’t thrown Girardi under the bus in the press.

    Do you really want to go over his “work” with pitches over the years.

    Mike Mussina and Randy Johnson hated him.

    Mike Mussina and Randy Johnson were two of the most disliked Yankees in the clubhouse in the last 15 years. They had very few friends in the clubhouse.

    As much as he and El Duque went at it, El Duque LOVED him.

    Andy, Clemens, and Wells loved throwing to the guy.

    Mo swears by him.

    But, what would those guys know. Some guy named “chip” on a Yankees blog knows more.

    I’ve given you examples of what kind of team guy he is. You reject everything because it doesn’t fit your premise, a premise not rooted in any foundation of truth, about the guy.

    He doesn’t want to DH right now. You know what, HE’S RIGHT. He’s more valuable to them catching as much as he can right now.

    He has NEVER said he doesn’t want to DH EVER. In fact, he has acknowledged on numerous occasions that day is coming. Its just not there yet.

    Just as Derek Jeter doesn’t believe his days at SS are over, regardless of what his UZR Rating may be. Its the same thing.

  103. The Philly Phitins June 14th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    SJ

    Surely you don’t think Mark lives up to his contract do you? Philly noticed he was nothing in postseason.
    He’s not worth 180mm,, nor is Arod, both are making out like a bandits, and should make between 12-14mm per year tops.

    Go Phitins

  104. Joe from Long Island June 14th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Yeah, AJ did real mediocre work in the playoffs and WS last year.

    Yeah, maybe Cash did pay more than some would consider “reasonable” for AJ, given his ups and downs. That’s a fair enough. The thing is, if he doesn’t sign here (remember, Atlanta was hot and heavy for him), we’re a pitcher short last year. What were the alternatives for a starter, Derek Lowe? Like it or not, that was the price it took. It may be a year too long at the end, but it did help yield a WS title. That’s worth a little something.

  105. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    For burnett, in contract comparison, he is pitching better than John Lackey who has the same contract.

    One has nothing to do with the other. If Lackey keeps pitching to a 4.54 ERA, sure he’ll be considered overpaid as well but do you really think he’ll continue at that rate? Burnett on the other hand has decidedly mediocre numbers since signing the huge deal.

    Additionally, Lackey has a better track record than Burnett, the money is more justified in his case.

  106. G-C June 14th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    “Burnett’s contract is 1 year too long and like 2-4 mil AAV more than AJ should have got. He is going into his third straight season of appearing to be injury free. I am very pleased by that, but the yankees are paying 16.5 mil for a 4ish era pitcher. ”

    Can’t disagree with this. But sometimes you have to overpay to get. I don’t think Cashman thought he was getting a number one starter in Burnett, but I did think he thought he’d be getting a guy who would miss bats and could offer the type of performance he showed in game 2 of the WS against good offensive teams. If Cashman doesn’t overpay Burnett, he signs with Atlanta for virtually the same money, and given the alternatives out there, we probably don’t win the World Series last year.

  107. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Philly noticed he was nothing in postseason

    god, this guy…

  108. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    For burnett, in contract comparison, he is pitching better than John Lackey who has the same contract.

    Another team handing out a stupid contract doesn’t make AJ Burnetts contract good unless the cost of pitchers better than AJ increase to past AJ level and the cost of pitchers worse than AJ also increase to AJ levels.

    The Red Sox are probably going to regret Lackey’s deal, but they also have a ridiculous injury clause that could trigger and get them out of it.

    AJ’s is a straight up 5 year deal, which I thought was too long but Cashman gets a pass on the next 5 years for winning a world series and putting the team in position to win more WS. Having AJ is good from the position of “Oh wow the yankees have unlimited money and want to win the WS all the time”, but its a bad deal from a baseball standpoint. Does that make sense?

    And AJ 5/82.5 is certainly worse than 4 years of Jorge Posada who, when signing the deal, was still going strong and even now looks to be going strong.

  109. SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Actually, Boomer liked throwing to Posada after his first year with the team. Same with AJ.

    As far as Johnson and Mussina, they never liked throwing to anybody except below average hitting catchers.

    That actually hurts the team. Much like Greg Maddox insisting Eddie Perez catch him rather than Javy Lopez. That cost the Braves playoff wins.

    One would argue guys like Johnson, Mussina and Maddox aren’t “team players” because they put THEIR needs above the best interests of the team.

  110. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    teixeira only has to hit what, 60 points better to live up to every penny of his contract this season? that or he would have to be really, really bad for another 3 years… lets not let the guy who roots for the “$25mil ryan howard” talk about teixeira being “worth it”.

  111. G-C June 14th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    “One has nothing to do with the other. If Lackey keeps pitching to a 4.54 ERA, sure he’ll be considered overpaid as well but do you really think he’ll continue at that rate? Burnett on the other hand has decidedly mediocre numbers since signing the huge deal.”

    Lackey looks pretty much toast this year. He’s given up 93 hits in 81 innings and has just 44 strikeouts against 35 walks.

    I’d be surprised if that contract turns out to be anything but a major disaster. He’s very fortunate that his ERA isn’t 5.54 instead of 4.54 and has Boston’s defense to thank for that.

    I wouldn’t call what Burnett has done so far “mediocre.” If he’s been “mediocre” than Andy Pettitte has been “mediocre” for his entire career. He’s pitched to about a 3.95 ERA in a season and a half here- that’s what Pettitte’s at for his career.

  112. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    As much as I love Mike Mussina (seriously one of my favorite players), I have to agree with SJ44. He was a pain in the ass and I can see why he didn’t have many friends on the team. He used to show up his fielders when they made an error which isn’t cool and I’m sure it bothered a lot of people. Moose was kind of a whiney dude to be quite honest.

    And Randy Johnson? I don’t think we have to go into that one.

    Posada has a strong personality but if you don’t see his leadership and value to the team you are clueless.

  113. Bronx Born June 14th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Chip- then why do you have to keep repeating it.. you made your point move on. the constant defending is not necessary.

  114. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    “are you looking at a body of 70 innings of work and telling me i’m an idiot for looking at 2000 innings? you are hilarious.”

    No, if you were an idiot, you’d be an idiot for not correctly interpreting those 1950 innings.

    He’s been at worst an average major league pitcher, who found success in a reliever role, something hundreds of successful major league bullpen arms have done before him.

    To suggest he can’t be an effective reliever, and t go so far as to say what he does between now and October is irrelevant, IS idiotic.

    The part I’m 100 certain you completely fail to understand is I’m not arguing that at this moment he can be counted on, I’m merely suggesting he has 99 more games to make his case.

  115. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    rconn23 June 14th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
    Less return on the investment? Jorge Posada?

    I guess being the second best cacther (.885 OPS last year) in the AL behing only Joe freakin Mauer and being the receiver on a World Series winner doesn?t count for anything.

    He was hurt in 2008, and strangely enough, the team didn?t make the playoffs. Let?s see how this season plays out before we make ridiculous pronouncements like that.
    ————————–

    Yeah, here’s the thing about 2008 – it wasn’t just that Posada was hurt that kept the Yankees out of the playoffs that year:

    1. Posada was hurt
    2. Matsui was hurt
    3. Wang was hurt
    4. Kennedy stunk
    5. Hughes stunk and was hurt
    6. Andy was pitching hurt in the 2nd half which made him stink

    Darrell Rasner was third on the team in starts, Sidney Ponson was fourth…What I’m saying is that Jorge or no Jorge, that club wasn’t making the playoffs.

  116. The Philly Phitins June 14th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    act 1

    Yankees aren’t Redsox, he owns the Yankees Tuesday Yankees will be out of 1st!

    Go Phitins

  117. Billy D June 14th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    “It’s arguable that Brian’s worst contract in the last 4 years is the one he gave Jorge before the 2008 season.”

    I think it’s equally arguable that Cashman and the Yankees didn’t have a whole lot of choice in this particular matter. They needed Posada at that point. There was nobody, be it in the system or in free agency who could come close to giving the Yankees what Posada does. Did Cashman want to go 4 years? Probably would have been more confortable with three, but that’s wasn’t what the market was bearing at that point.

  118. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Anyone that hates on Posada go look at what happened in the 2008 season. Losing Jorge was the #1 reason the Yankees missed the playoffs that year. You really can’t overstate how huge it is to have a great hitter playing catcher every day.

  119. rconn23 June 14th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Have to love a Philly troll talking about Mark Teixeira not being worth his contract, given the Phillies just signed a bad bodied, no defense playing,31-year old DH to a five year $25 million deal to play first base.

    Congrats. You know what makes Ryan Howard look like “nothing”? A ground ball he has to dive for and left handed pitching.

  120. jake June 14th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    It seems like the Yankees and all the MLB Analysts both agree that the Yankees dont need pictching. A trade for Cliff Lee is worthless at the moment. The rotation has been good so far.

    It’s our OFFENSE im worried about. and so should the yankees…

    Arod is hurt, noone knows how this is going to work out. The Yankees need to trade for a good bat. Whether it’s just for DH or for outfield or could possibly play third base, WE NEED A HITTER!

    But who???????

  121. Patrick from CT June 14th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    From the other thread about what Jeter is going to get for 2011 and beyond.
    What makes anyone think he’s not going to get at least 20mil for 5 years if he want to play that long?
    They are paying ARod 30mil until he’s 42. Jeter has 5 rings and is the captain; that goes a long way.
    Jeter and Mo are not taking pay cuts and are going to get more years than one might think.

  122. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    jake,

    I agree the Yanks need a little help (utility infielder, 4th outfielder) but how can you be so worried about the #1 offense in the league?

  123. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    “The worst contract Cashman gave out was to Mark Teixeira.

    He’s not a 23 million dollar upgrade over Swisher.”

    …”And now playing RF for the New York Yankees, Chad Huffmann.”

    Oh wait, he could trade for David Dejesus.

    Yeah, that’s the ticket.

  124. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    teixeira only has to hit what, 60 points better to live up to every penny of his contract this season? that or he would have to be really, really bad for another 3 years… lets not let the guy who roots for the “$25mil ryan howard” talk about teixeira being “worth it”.
    ___

    Clearly you dont understand baseball….. If Tex was a DH having a rough 2 months, that would be different. He plays the field too and since he has been here, the defense has been a lot better. Plus, since people want to go by total numbers instead of two months, everything in tex’s history shows he will play better from now on.

  125. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    “It’s our OFFENSE im worried about. and so should the yankees…”

    What part of leads the league in runs scored don’t you get exactly?

  126. Wave Your Hat June 14th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    The Yanks are so fortunate to have had Jorge Posada. How a Yankee fan can find an unkind word to say about him is beyond my ability to comprehend.

    The almost simultaneous emergence of Jorge, Derek, Mo and Andy was one of the most important events in the history of the Yanks, right up there with getting the Babe.

  127. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    It’s our OFFENSE im worried about. and so should the yankees…

    Arod is hurt, noone knows how this is going to work out. The Yankees need to trade for a good bat. Whether it’s just for DH or for outfield or could possibly play third base, WE NEED A HITTER!

    ___

    Our offense that’s number 1 in the AL?

  128. Bret the Hitman June 14th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Does anybody else think it’s inappropriate when you communicate a desire to not communicate with someone yet the person keeps trying to communicate with you when clearly, you’ve stated that you don’t want anything to do with this person?

  129. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    “Does anybody else think it’s inappropriate when you communicate a desire to not communicate with someone yet the person keeps trying to communicate with you when clearly, you’ve stated that you don’t want anything to do with this person?”

    No.

  130. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Moose was kind of a whiney dude to be quite honest.

    I’d whine too if I were him. Stuck on the orioles, jump to the yankees, get F’d for a million perfect games, miss out on WS’s by years and because of other pitchers not holding up their end. Smartest guy in the room, etc.

    G-C, Burnett vs Pettitte: Pettitte has had more than a few years of 200 IP + very good ERA, and a lefty and has only made 16 mil in 2 seasons.

  131. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
    Anyone that hates on Posada go look at what happened in the 2008 season. Losing Jorge was the #1 reason the Yankees missed the playoffs that year. You really can?t overstate how huge it is to have a great hitter playing catcher every day.
    ————————–

    I said it earlier and I’ll say it again. Jorge was a reason the Yankees missed the playoffs in 2008 but the number one reason they missed the playoffs was 4 out of 5 of the Yankee starters opening the season were hurt and they had to rely on guys like Ponson, Rasner, etc…

  132. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    stuckey – and he was a career “average” pitcher in the national league. nothing about that excites me. is it more realistic that he is the lights out reliever from the phillies last year, or the not so lights out guy he’s always been that we have on our team now?

  133. mick June 14th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Swish with Francesa

  134. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    On a couple of less controversal fronts:

    I don’t think he would sign here, but I would be interested in Chris Resop when he hits his opt-out date. Odds are he’ll get an offer to start for some club.

    I would be in favor of the Yankees trading a nothing player (Albaladejo) for Jake Fox

  135. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    ac1 – clearly i don’t understand baseball? you can’t even understand the posts your are replying to.

  136. JoeyA June 14th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Philly Phitins-
    Can you go to whatever hole you crawled out of and worry about your 3rd place team right now, who, even if they swept the Yanks and the Braves dropped all 3 against the Rays, would still be in 2nd place.

    Worry about the $25M/year contract currently handed out to Ryan Howard, a 180 K per season first basement, whose contract doesn’t start for ANOTHER 2 YEARS!

    Worry about your non-existent rotattion outside of Roy Halladay and your “closer” Brad Lidge.

    Worry about your All-star SS that can’t stay healthy.

    Worry about your offense who, since your binocular man was discovered, have been averaging 2+ runs per game.

    Worry about your 47 year old pitcher whose throwing against our 37 year old 8-1 2.46 ERA pitcher.

    Worry about the Mets & Braves, because, CURRENTLY, your team is closer in the standings to the Nationals than to the Braves.

    Please worry about any of these things, and not the 40-23, tied for best record in baseball and first place, coming off a World Series victory and, since then, bolstered starting pitching staff New York Yankees.

    We don’t need, nor want, you or your opinion here.

  137. Mike June 14th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Chip,

    You are a ruh-tard. Anyone who can’t see the value of Jorge Posada the past 15 years shouldn’t be allowed to watch Yankee baseball or post on a blog. Go trade for DeJesus and Olivo so we can solve all our woes.

    Please stop posting. I’d like to read what SJ44, CB, Pat M and others who make this community great rather than your drivel

  138. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    “I said it earlier and I’ll say it again. Jorge was a reason the Yankees missed the playoffs in 2008 but the number one reason they missed the playoffs was 4 out of 5 of the Yankee starters opening the season were hurt and they had to rely on guys like Ponson, Rasner, etc…”

    2009 runs scored: 915

    2009 runs against: 753

    2008 runs scored: 789

    2008 runs against: 727

  139. vblade June 14th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    There’s no reason to be worried about the offense. A-Rod hasn’t been himself, Tex has stunk, Posada out of the lineup for some time and Nick Johnson out most of the season and yet the Yankees are:

    1st in BA
    3rd in SLG
    1st in OBP
    3rd in Total Bases
    4th in HR
    1st in Runs
    3rd in Hits

    So if anything, get some more pitching.

  140. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Chip I read your post and yes there were other reasons the Yanks missed the playoffs but I contend losing Jorge was the #1 reason.

    Jerkface,

    I didn’t mind Moose’s personality, it’s refreshing to see a professional athlete actually show emotion. Watching his postgame interviews were great because he was usually pretty condescending to the retarded writers. Just saying I understand why people would dislike the guy

  141. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Burnett definitely benefitted from the Yankees desperation to get starting pitching.

  142. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    stuckey your facts and cold hard numbers are so snarky I can’t handle it ;)

  143. mick June 14th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    we are 5 games up on last year at this time

  144. vblade June 14th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    # ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Burnett definitely benefitted from the Yankees desperation to get starting pitching.

    ——————-

    Burnett isn’t consistent from start to start but his full body of work is usually reliable.

  145. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    “and he was a career “average” pitcher in the national league. nothing about that excites me. is it more realistic that he is the lights out reliever from the phillies last year, or the not so lights out guy he’s always been that we have on our team now?”

    The point is, he has until October to try to convince us.

    If he’s effective until then, to suggest he shouldn’t be used in the post-season because of his career numbers as a starter doesn’t strike me as a reasonable position.

  146. mick June 14th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    swish and fran, now that’s a contrast

  147. jake June 14th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Ya, they have the best offense….right now. But We dont have anyone for DH, and Arod’s injury might keep him out for a while or get worse. THEN what are we gonna do? We cant have someone that we have on our bench in the DH role. That’s just a rally ruiner.

    Trading for someone that wouldn’t take a lot to get, but better than what we have would be good. Someone like David Dejesus would be a good fit for us.

    And our bullpen could use one more reliable guy…

  148. mick June 14th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    swish is laughing at mike

  149. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
    Chip I read your post and yes there were other reasons the Yanks missed the playoffs but I contend losing Jorge was the #1 reason.
    —————————–

    Patrick,

    On that one we’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree. I don’t care if the club had Joe Mauer back there, you lose 3/5 of the rotation and have a fourth guy (Andy) pitching awfully because he’s hurt – you’re not going to the playoffs.

  150. Billy D June 14th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    “Moose was kind of a whiney dude to be quite honest.”

    Agree. ‘Cept for that last season, when he seemed to relax and enjoy himself, seemingly at peace with the decision to retire when the season ended.

  151. mick June 14th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    mike the man in black and shades never laughs
    swish laughs at everything

  152. blake June 14th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Isn’t Phitins supposed to be Phightins?…

  153. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Mike June 14th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
    Chip,

    You are a ruh-tard. Anyone who can?t see the value of Jorge Posada the past 15 years shouldn?t be allowed to watch Yankee baseball or post on a blog. Go trade for DeJesus and Olivo so we can solve all our woes.

    Please stop posting. I?d like to read what SJ44, CB, Pat M and others who make this community great rather than your drivel
    —————————

    Mike,

    I’ve considered your request and have decided to decline. Instead I offer you this suggestion – you don’t like what I write, don’t read it.

  154. mick June 14th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    swish sez Yankee Universe

    (trumps RS nation) I say

  155. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    stuckey – all i said is that i look at this list of players above, and he can go. he can prove himself worthy if he wants, i just don’t want him on our team. he’s a loser.

  156. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    blake – i think its phiten, and i owe them 10 cents now… :/

  157. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Chip,

    I think stuckey’s post proves my point. The Yanks allowed less runs in 2008 than they did in 2009 but scored 126 runs less. It seems fairly obvious that hte offense was the reason they did poorly in 2008, not the pitching. And losing Posada was the biggest blow to the offense that year.

  158. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Ya, they have the best offense….right now. But We dont have anyone for DH, and Arod’s injury might keep him out for a while or get worse. THEN what are we gonna do? We cant have someone that we have on our bench in the DH role. That’s just a rally ruiner.

    ___

    You know…. other teams get by with much less than we can put out there. ARod wasnt playing yesterday, they scored 9. And crazy enough, NL teams with games without a DH all the time (sometimes they even beat american league teams).

  159. JM June 14th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Geez I don’t get the Posada disdain that crops up frequently on these boards. The offense is totally different an amazingly improved when he is in there. He is the primary catcher on this team and he hits better when he’s catching. That’s all he was saying, not complaining about being the DH. His head is more in the game when he’s behind the plate.

    The guy is a true leader who desperately wants to win and plays hard all the time. He is also, at the very least, a borderline Hall of Famer, although I believe he has a pretty good shot at getting into the hall.

  160. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    i wonder what the solid numbers are on the philly bats turnaround after the “spying” thing came out. someone else do research, i’m not up to it today.

  161. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Meant to say “126 less runs”

  162. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    “i just don’t want him on our team. he’s a loser.”

    And that’s why I’ll continue to consider you troll-like, thank you very much.

  163. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    when you score 200 less runs, but still win 89 games… i’d say run prevention was a more important reason that you didn’t win those extra 6-7 games to put you in the playoffs.

  164. vblade June 14th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    # Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    i wonder what the solid numbers are on the philly bats turnaround after the “spying” thing came out. someone else do research, i’m not up to it today.

    ——

    What date did they get caught spying?

  165. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    stuckey – if you think i’m looking for your approval on my opinion, you are dead wrong.

  166. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    For the record –

    I have never, not once, said Jorge’s not a good player. I have never said Jorge’s not a hall of famer or shrugged off what he’s meant to the success of the organization over his career.

    What I have said, and frankly only SJ has posed an argument to it, is that I don’t think Jorge is quite the team guy that everyone seems to think he is; that if he’s not willing to move to DH then he has zero future with the Yankees as a player after next year; that he’s not as good a defensive player at this stage as Cervelli; and that he was not the primary reason the Yankees missed the playoffs in 2008.

    If you calm down, read that, and then get it from your eyes to your brains that I am no where saying “Jorge is garbage” I think we can have a rational discussion about it.

  167. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    vblade – i see an article may 12th about it

  168. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Chip,

    You were also advocating getting rid of Jorge because he is supposedly “complaining” about being a DH. Twisting the facts as always I see…

  169. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    “But We dont have anyone for DH, and Arod’s injury might keep him out for a while or get worse. THEN what are we gonna do?”

    Rely on Jeter, and Swisher, and Texeiria, and Cano, and Granderson, and Posada, and Gardner.

    I continue to be amazed at how someone who you would assume sees this team everyday doesn’t understand how relatively loaded this team is offensively.

  170. Erin June 14th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    ed_price AL All-Star leaders: Mauer, Morneau, Cano, Longoria, Jeter, Ichiro/Crawford/N.Cruz, V.Guerrero. Hamilton close 4th in OF

  171. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    chip – you keep saying “if he’s not willing to move to DH then he has zero future with the Yankees as a player after next year” yet can’t produce that quote coming from posada at all. he knows DH is the move for his career, and he even said it the day after they DL’d him. Just because he’s not “accepting defeat” this season doesn’t mean he’s not a team player.

  172. JM June 14th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Phillies got warned about binoculars on May 12. Maybe someone else can do the research to see if their slide started around that time? (I am at work and can’t really investigate at the moment).

  173. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    “if you think i’m looking for your approval on my opinion, you are dead wrong.”

    i don’t. I have seen first hand how people who wallow in ignorance prefer to do so proudly and defiantly.

  174. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    god damn, the AL outfield voting is a joke. please go vote for Rios, Swisher, and Wells! hamilton is the only guy that belongs there.

  175. LGY June 14th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    OH and the Cisco’s are delivered a devastating blow in the 38th minute!

    PFOFs everywhere shed a tear and hope the Italians can fight their way back in this downpour

  176. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    Ichiro always deserves to be in the all-star game.

  177. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    stuckey – ignorance doesn’t play any part in my decision making, but thanks for your concern.
    ignorance does play a part in IGNORING an entire body of work, so for you… i worry.

    go find someone with no intelligence to direct your half-hearted insults at… i’m done talking about this.

  178. JM June 14th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    From Inquirer blog:

    One major-league scout harped on two common theories about the Phillies’ offensive struggles: the absence of shortstop Jimmy Rollins for all but 11 games and the possibility that bullpen coach Mick Billmeyer was stealing signals when he got caught with binoculars May 12 at Coors Field.

    “To me, it’s obvious what’s troubling them,” the scout said. “They miss Jimmy Rollins. It’s not even about him hitting. It’s just his presence on the field. When he’s not on the field, they’re not even close to the same team.”

    The scout was also adamant that there really could be something to the “cheating accusations” that surfaced in Denver.

    “I’m very intrigued by that,” the scout said. “Check what the Phillies’ numbers are since that binocular game in Colorado . They’ve been accused of doing that stuff for years and one manager (the Rockies’ Jim Tracy) had the guts to challenge them. I saw Chase Utley off balance more in three games recently than I have in the last three years. That gets your attention.”

    Here are the numbers: The Phillies hit 39 home runs through their first 33 games with the 33d game being Binocular-gate in Denver. Since then, they had hit 16 in 26 games before Saturday. The Phillies averaged 5.4 runs per game through 33 games. Since then, they’ve averaged 3.4 runs and been shut out six times.

    Utley was hitting .314 with eight home runs and 19 RBIs through May 12. Going into Saturday, he had hit .170 with two home runs and seven RBIs since then. Jayson Werth was hitting .345 with seven home runs and 27 RBIs through May 12 and has batted .200 with three home runs and 10 RBIs since. Ryan Howard’s batting average has actually gone up a point in that span, but his 10 home runs through 59 games represented a significant power shortage from a year ago, when he had 18 home runs at the same stage of the season.

    Whatever the reason for the offensive struggle, it won’t matter what the Phillies do at the trade deadline if Utley, Howard, and Werth do not start to produce in the final 102 games of the season.

    As for the question about what the Phillies will need most at the trade deadline, there is one obvious answer: They need to get healthy.

    Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/s.....z0qrAEcmDJ
    Play fantasy sports and win cash prizes instantly. Philly.com’s Instant Fantasy Sports Games

  179. vblade June 14th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    # Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    vblade – i see an article may 12th about it

    ——————–

    The “Vaunted” Phillies Offense:

    April (Pre-CameraGate): .261 BA/.339 OBP/.417 SLG/.756 OPS
    May/June (Post-CameraGate): .220 BA/.294 OBP/.314 SLG/.608 OPS

    I guess that camera really was important! Maybe the Philly troll can serve as their new cameraman, but with his attention-whoring personality, he’s likely to get caught within a couple hours.

  180. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    jerkface – so the 15-20th best OF in baseball deserves to be in the Allstar game? … why?

  181. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    good stuff vblade and JM…

  182. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    “i’m done talking about this.”

    About time.

  183. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    Crawford and Ichiro aren’t terrible choices. I wouldn’t go Cruz though, he’s been injured too much.

  184. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Patrick,

    The Yankees got off to a very good start in 2008. I’ve been looking but can’t find a breakdown of how the club played split up as the pitching injuries piled up.

    Posada’s loss was impactful, but it wasn’t just his loss that doomed that club; just as it wasn’t his return that booyed the 2009 Yankees. You’re disregarding far too many other factors and making Jorge way more valuable than he actually is.

    Look at the complete roster turn overs between 2008 and 2009.

  185. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    they aren’t terrible choices, but hardly the most deserving at this point :/

  186. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    stuckey – grow up.

  187. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    so the 15-20th best OF in baseball deserves to be in the Allstar game? ? why?

    He is the 1st best speech maker.

  188. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Irreverent,

    Ichiro is playing excellent defense, .397 OBP, 18 steals

    That’s not 15-20th best.

    Crawford isn’t a terrible pick either considering his ABSURD defense thus far.

    There really aren’t any obvious choices in the outfield this year. Rios, Swisher, Choo, Wells deserve a consideration too but Crawford and Ichiro aren’t awful picks

  189. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
    Chip,

    You were also advocating getting rid of Jorge because he is supposedly ?complaining? about being a DH. Twisting the facts as always I see?
    ———————-

    Technically I was, and am, suggesting that his chances of re-signing with the Yankees after 2011 go from slim to none if he’s not willing to be a DH.

    I was also suggesting that whether he likes it or not, he should be the primary DH coming into the 2011 season.

  190. MTU (aka GBURL) June 14th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    The title of this thread should be “Same old arguments”.

    Chip vs. SJ

    Stuckey vs. Everybody

    Trolls vs. Everybody

    Ac1 vs ID

    I leave for a few hours and this place turns into a mud slinging contest.

    Incorrigible. Just can’t play nice. Go to your corners and stay their until I say you can come out. :)

  191. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Chip i’m not ignoring other factors. I acknowledged that there were other reasons the Yanks missed the postseason in 2008. Just saying that the most important reason was losing Posada. Your anti-Posada bias is showing….

  192. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    So one would argue that the camera issue with Philly has had a MAJOR effect. I’m surprised it is as bad as it is though.

  193. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    btw – the REAL correct answer to why the 2008 NY Yankees didn’t make the postseason was because the 2008 Devil Rays came outta nowhere. 89 wins is play-off worthy most years, including 2000 when they won 87 games and the World Series.

    But if you want to talk about why they won 89 games as opposed to their average mid-90′s total, I think it fairly obvious it’s because the offense didn’t perform as usual.

  194. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    MTU -

    In my own defense I truly believe that if I posted on here that water is wet SJ would respond by saying “I know for a fact that water’s not wet, you’re wrong to think that it is.”

  195. Billy D June 14th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    “jerkface – so the 15-20th best OF in baseball deserves to be in the Allstar game?”

    Since when has “deserving” been part of the fan vote?

    In the end, the right guys will get on the team…..’cept Gardner, IMO.

  196. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    MTU, you mean ID vs. EVERYONE

  197. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Chip,

    Yeah play the victim all you want. It should tell you something that the majority of your ideas are blasted by not just SJ44 and myself. You seem like a nice guy but I think you misunderstand a lot of things about baseball.

  198. JM June 14th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    # ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    So one would argue that the camera issue with Philly has had a MAJOR effect. I’m surprised it is as bad as it is though.

    The before and after stats are really pretty amazing, aren’t they?

  199. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    patrick – wait, people are allowed to look at defense for all-star voting? ;)

    rios and wells are having considerably better offensive seasons than crawford/ichiro. not that the latter’s numbers aren’t good, they are just being outperformed and i would attempt to reward that with an all-star vote.

  200. waka flocka June 14th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Who cares about the All-Star Game? It shouldn’t matter at all. Its a popularity contest, not based on actual skill.

  201. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    ID,

    I agree Rios is better than any OF in the AL thus far and he should be leading the voting. But Wells? He’s top 5 but I wouldn’t put him significantly past Crawford and Ichiro. He’s just not the fielder he used to be.

  202. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    waka – not caring about it is why the wrong players go every year.

  203. vblade June 14th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    # waka flocka June 14th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Who cares about the All-Star Game? It shouldn’t matter at all. Its a popularity contest, not based on actual skill.

    —————-

    Now it dictates homefield in the WS, so people should care, unfortunately.

  204. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
    Chip i?m not ignoring other factors. I acknowledged that there were other reasons the Yanks missed the postseason in 2008. Just saying that the most important reason was losing Posada. Your anti-Posada bias is showing?.
    ——————————

    Patrick,

    You’re entitled to your opinion of what doomed the 2008 Yankees (including as Stucky rightly points out – a big season from Tampa) I tend to believe that with everything that went wrong you can’t look at just Jorge or just Matsui or just Wang or just Melky or just Cano etc…and say, “that’s the reason.”

  205. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    patrick – yeah, i guess i haven’t checked the numbers in a week or two. i just checked and by my metrics crawford has surpassed wells. i’d still argue them over ichiro though, choo as well.

    zobrist and magglio might have to enter that discussion if they stay hot.

  206. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Except that losing Posada forced them to play Molina who could not handle starting and isn’t very good offensively anyways.

    I think Posada is the main reason the 2008 offense wasn’t any good.

  207. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
    Chip,

    Yeah play the victim all you want. It should tell you something that the majority of your ideas are blasted by not just SJ44 and myself. You seem like a nice guy but I think you misunderstand a lot of things about baseball.
    ————————
    Not playing the victim, actually thought it was a pretty funny remark.

    And someone touting the virtues of Austin Kearns should be very careful when suggesting others don’t understand baseball.

  208. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Oh, and I am a nice guy.

  209. Wave Your Hat June 14th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    In 2008, the Yanks finished 6 games behind the wild card.

    In 2008, Jorge’s WAR was 0.1. 2003-2007 Jorge had an average WAR of 4.9. In 2007 it had been 5.8. That’s almost the entire difference right there.

    I’m sure there are other ways to calculate it as baseball is a team game played by many players. However, the loss of Jorge almost single-handedly accounted for the difference in the standings.

  210. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    And someone touting the virtues of Austin Kearns should be very careful when suggesting others don?t understand baseball.

    Those in houses made of the randy winn and ryan church should not throw stones.

  211. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    I tend to believe that with everything that went wrong you can’t look at just Jorge or just Matsui or just Wang or just Melky or just Cano etc…and say, “that’s the reason.”

    WOW how many times do I have to say it? I’m not saying losing Posada was the only reason! READ > COMPREHEND > POST

    I’m saying losing Posada was the MAIN reason they missed the playoffs.

    Why am I wasting my time talking to you? Holy crap I can’t believe I got sucked into the Chip vortex. I am complaining about Chip being an idiot but who’s the idiot that keeps getting sucked in? Jesus… enough

  212. Billy D June 14th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    “89 wins is play-off worthy most years,”

    No it’s not. From 2000-2009 only three of the 40 playoff teams made it to the postseason with less than 90 wins.

  213. waka flocka June 14th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    Irreverent Discourse,

    People don’t care because its silly. Its silly an exhibition game ‘counts’ and its even sillier that if this game does count, the fans are allowed to vote. I wish people would have kept voting for Tex just to prove how stupid the idea is.

    If the MLB wants their fans to have control over the ASG then that’s fine but they should also have a separate distinction like the NBA does. There is All-Star’s and then there is the All-NBA team. Let the fans go wild and elect all the big names for the ASG and then have a legitimate All-MLB Team.

  214. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
    I tend to believe that with everything that went wrong you can’t look at just Jorge or just Matsui or just Wang or just Melky or just Cano etc…and say, “that’s the reason.”

    ?

    WOW how many times do I have to say it? I?m not saying losing Posada was the only reason! READ > COMPREHEND > POST

    I?m saying losing Posada was the MAIN reason they missed the playoffs.

    Why am I wasting my time talking to you? Holy crap I can?t believe I got sucked into the Chip vortex. I am complaining about Chip being an idiot but who?s the idiot that keeps getting sucked in? Jesus? enough
    —————————————–

    Take a breath and listen to what I am saying. I don’t think you can pick any one thing and say that was the main thing that went wrong.

    I think there were too many things that went wrong to even begin to put them in any kind of order like that.

  215. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    “No it’s not. From 2000-2009 only three of the 40 playoff teams made it to the postseason with less than 90 wins.”

    How many of those 40 teams would have made it with 89 wins?

    If it’s a around the same number, I’ll gladly concede the point.

  216. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    The yankees got 25% below average batting from the catcher position in 2008. The next closest was 13% below average from 2nd base, and Cano still had a hot second half.

  217. Bronx Born June 14th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Is not the purpose of studying history to learn from one’s mistakes? If so, how is the countless rehashing of the past (2008 season) going to help anyone. Would it not be more appropriate to discuss the future? It would be a lot more fun and a lot less tiresome imho.

  218. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Ok chip whatever you say chief

    I think I’m going to start an All-Chip team.

    1st team all-Chip:

    Ankiel
    Winn
    Church

    I’ll add to it as the year progresses

  219. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Jerkface-

    At least Winn and Church at one time or another showed they were major leaguers.

    Saying the Yankees should pick up the injury prone Austin Kearns to replace the injury prone Nick Johnson is like saying you should trade in your Yugo for a Datsun.

  220. waka flocka June 14th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    The Yankees missed the playoffs in 2008 because of guys like Rasner, Ponson, Pavano, and Kennedy making 50+ starts for them. A lot of Yankee fans are spoiled. A lineup that features A-Rod, Damon, Jeter, Giambi, and Abreu is a ‘bad lineup’ to them.

    Posada’s bat would have been nice but the team hit 180HR, scored 789 runs, and won 89 games. If they didn’t have a rotation of And, Moose, and pray for rain then things would have been different.

  221. LGY June 14th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    The ignorance as to the value Jorge Posada brings to this team is really astounding at times.

    Also the way his words and actions get twisted into portraying him as some selfish malcontent is ridiculous.

    Anyway, in a certain aspect 4 years for Jorge really is not bad.

    The Yankees need him back in 2011. None of their catching prospects are ready and Cervelli is not the answer to be a full time catcher. This team would have a big question mark at the end of 2010 if Jorge’s contract was expiring.

    If it was just 3 years, Jorge could have decided to just hang it up and retire. Alternatively, the Yankees would have to negotiate a new deal with him. Cashman and everyone else in the Yankee org know his value to this team, so maybe Jorge would not have accepted just a 1 year deal. Therefore, the original 3 year deal could have easily turned into a 5 or 6 year deal.

    In 2012, the picture will be much clearer as to how the Yankees will proceed at the catching position. Jorge will be a year older and therefore more willing to go year to year if the Yankees choose.

    The 4 year deal may actually play out as a better scenario than a 3 year deal would have.

  222. Wave Your Hat June 14th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    “Take a breath and listen to what I am saying. I don’t think you can pick any one thing and say that was the main thing that went wrong. ”

    Chip, this whole subject came up because you knocked Cashman for giving Jorge the 4 year deal after 2007. One of the reasons you gave for it being a bad deal was 2008.

    The subject is therefore Jorge and his impact on the 2008 season. There have been a number of posts making excellent points about Jorge’s loss having a disproportionate impact on the outcome of the season – for example I said the difference in WAR alone was between 4.8 and 5.7.

    Since the subject is Jorge, you can’t argue back and say “oh wait, there were lots of reasons the Yanks lost.” You have to show why Jorge’s loss wasn’t disproportionately important, and you haven’t come close to doing that.

  223. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Patrick,

    when the season started I would have taken any one of those guys over Austin Kearns…probably still would.

    And my prediction still stands, come season’s end, DeJesus’s numbers will be better than Kearns and Austin will not play in as many games.

    You’re a clown.

  224. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    2009 – twins win central with 87 wins. boston only needed 88 wins for WC
    2008 – white sox win central with 89 wins. boston would have tied the yankees with 89 wins for WC.
    2007 – yankees would have WC with 89 wins.
    2006 – detroit needed 90 wins for WC
    2005 – boston needed 89 wins for WC
    2004 – boston needed 92 wins for WC
    2003 – boston needed 94 wins for WC (seattle won 93 games)
    2002 – anaheim needed 94 wins for WC
    2001 – oakland needed 86 wins for WC (won 102)

  225. LGY June 14th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    And the Cisco’s tie it up!

    Yankee fans better hope the Italians can put another one in the back of the net or we may have a very unhappy Cervelli on our hands.

    Two selfish and unhappy catchers :(

  226. Billy D June 14th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    “How many of those 40 teams would have made it with 89 wins?”

    That’d take some further research. I do know that over that same period (2000-2009), there were more teams that won 90+ and didn’t make the playoffs than there were teams who made it with less than 90.

  227. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    interestingly enough, none of the yankees starters posted a negative WAR for 2008. even rasner/ponson/hughes/kennedy were all positive.

  228. stuckey June 14th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    So 4 of 8 years since 2001 not including 2008 89 wins does it.

    That’s not most, so I stand corrected.

  229. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    billy – look up, i did the leg work.

  230. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Chip, this whole subject came up because you knocked Cashman for giving Jorge the 4 year deal after 2007. One of the reasons you gave for it being a bad deal was 2008.

    Wave,

    If that’s how you read it then I’m sorry for not being more clear. What I was pointing out was that since signing that contract Jorge has not had an injury free season.

    I don’t fault Jorge for getting the contract. My comment was ripping Cashman for giving Jorge a 4 year deal. I understand why he did it, we all do…it had less to do with what Jorge would do for the club than it had to do with what he meant to the club and the bad press that would have come if Posada signed with the Mets.

    I just think that if Cashman had it to do over again he would have let Posada go on the open market. Quite frankly I think Theo would feel the same way about Varitek.

  231. Billy D June 14th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    ID:

    You da man.

  232. Patrick June 14th, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Wow incredible prediction Chip. The best position player on a team will start more games than a guy signed to a minor league deal.

    Obviously Dejesus is the superior player but the Yanks don’t need him at this point. Kearns will be a cheaper player to get and he hits lefties better than Dejesus.

    Who else should I add to the All-Chip Team?

  233. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    At least Winn and Church at one time or another showed they were major leaguers.

    Church can’t even fall asleep without worrying about never waking back up. Kearns has 2 seasons where he played more games than Church EVER played in the majors in 1 season. Randy Winn was an average player…5 years ago.

    Austin Kearns has 300 more career games than Church in like 2 more seasons.

  234. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    My only complaint with Jorge’s behavior on the contract was that instead of just negotiating with Brian he first went out and, in the media, let it be known he was meeting with the Mets…knowing full well the kind of public pressure that would put on the Yankees in what was already an unpopular off-season (headed by the Torre departure)

  235. Erin June 14th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    LGY June 14th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
    And the Cisco?s tie it up!

    Yankee fans better hope the Italians can put another one in the back of the net or we may have a very unhappy Cervelli on our hands.

    ******************************
    All right Italy!!!

    An unhappy Cisco would not be good. :(

  236. Irreverent Discourse June 14th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    traber and britton were the only 2 yankees pitchers with negative WAR in 08. all this really means is that the pitchers we DID have could have been replaced by any league average pitcher and we would have finished in the same spot.

    so, offense shoulders the blame.

  237. Wave Your Hat June 14th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    “I just think that if Cashman had it to do over again he would have let Posada go on the open market. Quite frankly I think Theo would feel the same way about Varitek.”

    Chip, if Cashman had done that the Yanks wouldn’t have had a catcher in 2008, 2009, this year or probably next. I don’t think Cashman would have chosen that option no matter how much information about future events he may have had.

  238. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Wow incredible prediction Chip. The best position player on a team will start more games than a guy signed to a minor league deal.

    A-Best position player on the Royals is Billy Butler, but that’s irrelevant

    B-Kearns isn’t going to sit because someone on the Indians is better than him; Kearns isn’t going to play because he won’t be healthy.

  239. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    Who are we starting at catcher in 2008, 2009?

  240. Erin June 14th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    New Post: Swisher fifth, Granderson sixth in all-star voting

    :arrow:

  241. ac1 June 14th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    anyone ever figure out what happened with Dave Eiland?

  242. becca June 14th, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    “I just think that if Cashman had it to do over again he would have let Posada go on the open market. Quite frankly I think Theo would feel the same way about Varitek.”

    Ahahah no. Though yes, Theo probably would have done that for Varitek, seeing as he’s a bench player at this point. Jorge got hurt for most of 2008, but was INCREDIBLY important in 2009 and, even with his injuries, has been incredible in 2010. Plus, who the heck else would we have had catch? Jose Molina full time? No thank you. Cervelli’s a fine backup but should not be the Yankees’ full-time catcher.

  243. Billy D June 14th, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    “My only complaint with Jorge’s behavior on the contract was that instead of just negotiating with Brian he first went out and, in the media, let it be known he was meeting with the Mets…knowing full well the kind of public pressure that would put on the Yankees in what was already an unpopular off-season”

    Imagine that. A free agent doing what he can to improve his bargaining position.

    The Yankees invited that on themselves, Chip. Posada becoming a free agent wasn’t breaking news. Yankees knew it was coming and chose to let it happen rather than try signing him during that last season. This time it bit them in the backside a little.

  244. Erica in NY June 14th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    :arrow:

  245. Chip June 14th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    Chip, if Cashman had done that the Yanks wouldn?t have had a catcher in 2008, 2009, this year or probably next. I don?t think Cashman would have chosen that option no matter how much information about future events he may have had.

    Now we’re getting into the realm of complete hypotheticals. But here are possibilities:

    1. I don’t believe there’s another team out there that would have given Jorge a 4 year deal for the money the Yankees were offering, so maybe he stays with the club, but at a lower cost or shorter contract.

    2. If not, what catchers were available via trade – Victor Martinez was traded a year later, could the Yankees have brought him in?

  246. Jerkface June 14th, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    2. If not, what catchers were available via trade ? Victor Martinez was traded a year later, could the Yankees have brought him in?

    So we’re replacing Posada with a worse bat and a worse defender at the cost of great prospects (to get him a year earlier?)

  247. Wave Your Hat June 14th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Chip, Victor Martinez wasn’t available at the time or even at the beginning of last year, and would you want him over Jorge anyway? Face it, Jorge had enormous leverage in that negotiation and used it, and there’s nothing wrong with that because teams use their leverage unmercifully whenever they have it. Turn about is fair play.

  248. SJ44 June 14th, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    The Mets had a 4 year offer for Posada.

    How do I know it? My nephew has the same agents as Jorge and we have talked about that negotiation many times.

  249. morningstar June 14th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Chip, Please go away.

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