Happy birthday Andy Pettitte
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 15, 2010 
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SJ44 June 15th, 2010 at 11:55 am
The Mariners have spent time looking at him if the Yankees engage them on Cliff Lee. He is one of the guys on their list.
If he can be in the conversation for a Cliff Lee, he can certainly be in the conversation Soria.
Although, the Yankees aren’t looking to deal for Soria at the present time.
***************
It’s possible that the Mariners interest in Nunez is real but he alone is not the sticking point of any deal for Lee. The sticking point is Montero/Romine. Nunez got a nice plug there but let’s be realistic. He’s a complimentary piece, not the centerpiece.
The Mariners see value. I don’t question that. What I want to hear is scouts raving about Nunez as a can’t miss, major league ready talent. I’m not hearing that.
M,
If there is one player requiring more insurance than Brett Gardner on this roster, who is it? I’d really like to know.
champ809 June 15th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Keep this in mind…
If Nunez and a few other guys continue this season and the Marlins in the offseason make HanRam available the Yanks could certainly get in that mix and would as you know the RedSox would be frontrunning it….
Nunez,Romine and a couple of others would definitely get them in the mix…
************
Hanley as DH?
Why does any player need insurance?
Is it just a waste of resources to trade for a guy just in case somewhere down the line a player performance drops.
The Yankees went into this year with basically nothing in LF and not expecting a lot from Gardner. Their “insurance” was Randy Winn.
Why now, that Gardner is performing at an extremely high level would they decide to insure LF?
stuckey is right. You just have this strange fixation that Gardner is suddenly going to fall off a cliff one of these days.
But, you have not provided any reasons why.
It may be safe to say that Andrew Brackman has figured something out. This is not to say he has figured everything out; but something seems to have clicked. Brackman was brilliant yet again, allowing two runs (one earned) on five hits in six innings to gain the victory as Tampa won, 7-3.
Brackman walked nobody and struck out 11 in the victory. Brackman is now 5-3 with a 4.75 ERA (11 starts, 55 IP, 62 H, 7 BB, 51 K, 3 HR, 1.83 GB/FB). His line in his last five starts: 29 IP, 23 H, 6 runs (5 earned), 4 BB, 34 K.
http://www.thebronxview.com/20.....o-almonte/
Colin Curtis also joined in on the hit parade, going 4-for-5 with a double, two RBI, and two runs scored. Curtis is at .286/.370/.371.
Jorge Vazquez hit his first Triple-A home run, and drove in three runs overall as Scranton took an 8-6 decision. Vazquez was recently called up to Scranton from Trenton. He is on the older side (28), but has shown good power since arriving to the Yankees from the Mexican League. He isn?t on the 40-man roster, so it would take something significant to get him into the Bronx, but this is the type of player you may see come September.
Eduardo Nunez went 3-for-5 with two doubles, a triple, and two RBI to lead Scranton to a 8-6 victory. Nunez got his slugging percentage back up over .400 and is at .323/.364/.413 overall. He has walked only 14 times, while striking out 35 times in 254 at-bats. So the name of his game is contact. A shortstop version of Robinson Cano? We can only dream about that. One thing he has that Cano doesn?t: The ability to steal bases. He is 14-for-17.
That Nunez kid sounds good!
Gardner’s emrgence this year has offset the loss of Austin Jackson from our system and lessened the need for Carl Crawford next year
Zolio Almonte (21) pounded his 9th home run of the year, but it wasn?t enough as Charleston lost 7-4. Almonte is now hitting .284/.338/.486 in 208 at-bats. The power is very, very real.
LGY,
It’s not strictly insurance.
It’s everyday production as a DH/LF + insurance.
As for Gardner, yeah, he is the least likely of all Yankees on the roster to maintain his production.
I’m picking on the weak link.
Who is weaker?
rayVt-
You are really damon Oppenheimer aren’t you ?
Happy Birthday Andy!!
Bret,
Alex Rodriguez
Brackman’s current performance is certainly better than a kick in the pants, but he’s a man among kids in A ball. I hope the Yanks move him up soon and we’ll begin to get a better idea.
m June 15th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Bret,
Alex Rodriguez
*****************
That’s bold of you.
Oh it talking about an insurance for offensive production?
LOL. Tex? The DH? Granderson?
You crack me up. The Yankees were never depending on Gardner for ++ production. Now that he’s opened some eyes you want to give up prospects for players that would be marginally better than BBGB? All because he might slide back to what would’ve satisfied the Yankees in the first place?
What’s the easiest position to fill in an emergency?
Wave,
I must be out of the loop on all the great hitting ss’s in the big leagues….I didn’t think there were that many.
Brackman’s experience level is real close to the people he’s playing against. This is a rare case where his age is meaningless. If he continues to do well, and they promote him to AA this yr, it’s a huge season for Brackman.
The DH?
*******
Yup.
If a guy hitting .300+ with a .400 OBP is the weakest link on a team on pace to win 100+ games, then I would be pretty comfortable standing pat at the deadline and holding onto my assets in the system.
Maybe 1 or 2 complementary players like last year with Hinske and Hairston.
Scranton/Wilkes-Barre 36-28, second place Top hitter: SS Eduardo Nunez leads the team in hits, batting average, stolen bases and runs. He?s also second in RBI, and I?ve heard his defense has been pretty good this season, which seemed to be a concern after his 33 errors last year.
LGY,
But that’s the thing. DeJesus would not be merely insurance for Gardner. That’s just his added benefit. He’d be producing everyday as the DH. So really you have to consider the short term upgrade at DH in 2010 and 2011 combined with the added insurance of the weakest position player on the team.
Well any trade with KC will include Gardner, so you would kill two birds there. Too bad Girardi can’t put DeJesus at DH and LF in the same lineup.
I can’t talk about David freakin DeJesus anymore. I am sorry I got involved again.
Conor Jackson was traded to Oakland for a minor league pitcher. Never much of a defensive player, he still hasn’t done much offensively in about 2 years, ilness or not.
And the added insurance to Swisher’s D in RF or the added insurance benefit of one of the 3 OF’s falling to injury while there’s zero OF depth in the system for 2010 and 2011.
The Sox are facing Ian Patrick Kennedy tonight.
Go IPK!
Hey, if Andy were 7-4 with a 4.2 ERA and made the All Star squad, that would be a gift wrapped selection.
blake-
I’m not sure where you were going with that but there are a number of good young SS over in the NL, fewer in the AL though.
I guess my feeling is that a scarcity of good hitting at a position doesn’t make so-so hitting any better, if you follow me.
Why trade for DeJesus, when you can call up Jesus to DH?
Nj.com Bob Klapsch headline: First place hides flaws in Yankee lineup. Wonder who he means?
Daily News:Out of AL East, but Yanks can’t dodge Roy. hehehe!
The Bleacher report: Just the Medicine, Toy Halladay will be key to Phillies-Yankees series. (banking on it.)
Go Phitins!
m June 15th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Well any trade with KC will include Gardner, so you would kill two birds there. Too bad Girardi can’t put DeJesus at DH and LF in the same lineup.
***************
No Gardner. Eduardo Nunez.
Not sure what you’re driving at in your second statement.
Although Brackman’s success is encouraging, the only thing that NYYs most likely care about right now is for him to get innings and his mechanics under control, and he’s doing that.
MTU (aka GBURL) June 15th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
LOL!
How you figure its so so hitting?
meant Roy , but then you know who he is right?
Go Phitins!
RayVt brought up an interesting point in the last thread. The one reason – barring any injury issues, of course – for the Yankees to trade for Lee now, instead of just waiting to pay in cash, only is in order to block him from going to a division rival.
Now, whether Tampa or Boston has what it takes to make that deal is what Cash needs to know. This is where their knowledge of those two organizations comes into play. Because, if neither one has what Seattle wants, then there’s no need for Cash to spend the prospects for Lee.
blake-
Are we talking about Nunez?
BlahBlahBlahBlahDavid DejesusBlahBlahBlahBlahBrettGardnerwillfailBlahBlahBlahBlah
GreenBeret7 June 15th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Although Brackman?s success is encouraging, the only thing that NYYs most likely care about right now is for him to get innings and his mechanics under control, and he?s doing that.
Very True GB! And he is doing that right now! I expect he moves to AA withing a week or two.
KC loves them some Brett Gardner. And that’s before this breakout season. So you may get your DeJesus but it would be at the expense of your starting LF who actually is a CF. So DeJesus would be in LF, DH would still be a hole, and you would spend an extra $7M. All because you think that Gardner’s going to fall back to a level that is perfectly acceptable to the Yankees.
Since were just talking here in hypothetical terms.
And this is just to gauge value on value only.
Let’s just say the M’s were willing to to trade KFelix to the Yankees.
Would Montero/Romine + Nunez + Joba + ? Get it or would Jack Z just laugh and hang up the phone on that.
I know it’s not going to happen, and I am not suggesting it should.
Just trying to gauge what it might take that’s all.
Since Brackman’s been on the major league 40 man roster since he was signed/drafted, how long does he remain under team control for?
How does an (cough) Ace have the same amount of wins, as the worst pitcher in your starting rotation?
Philly wants to know !
Go Phitins!
M,
I wouldn’t trade Gardner for DeJesus.
Wave,
Yea, listen all I’m saying is that the guy has value and could potentially have more value if he continues to improve. He’s probably not going to be the Yankees next SS but he could be be a target for other teams that need a SS and that’s a good thing for the NYY.
Today’s Guess The Lineup is Open for Business
I will accept lineups until 3 pm or until an offiicial lineup is posted.
Good luck!
+++++++
Question based on a quick skim of the above posts: Why is Brett Gardner’s performance the most likely to fall off its current pace? Why is that any more likely or unlikely than anyone else’s performance to change? Makes no logical sense to me.
Random thought. Where is Betsy, CR9, Trisha?
I don’t know who DeJesus is blocking, but I bet they insist on a ML ready OF. And I bet they double insist on Gardner.
Ray, Nunez has never really had trouble with the glove, but, it’s almost always been a matter of footwork that led him to be scatterarmed. Players like Justin snyder, Carmen Angelini and Lassiter, just aren’t infielders, and they aren’t hitting, either. At trenton, they have another shortstop named Luis Nunez and he has been pretty solid on defense, but, his bat has regressed. Not quite the same bat or speed, but, not too bad. If he makes it at all, it’ll be as a utility player, unless his bat finds it’s groove.
Doreen,
Have you looked at the track record of the rest of the roster?
Glove, I think Brackman signed a 5-year deal, courtesy of Scott Boras. Therefore, I think he’s got two years left after this (remember, he had TJ surgery while under contract).
I’m at work, and can’t access Cot’s to check.
m June 15th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
I don’t know who DeJesus is blocking, but I bet they insist on a ML ready OF. And I bet they double insist on Gardner.
*****
Not necessarily. They have a need for a shortstop.
Bret,
Good. I’ve done my job here. Carry on.
Like nature, fanboys abhor a vacuum, so JUST as the Phil Hughes fixation finally fell to the wayside, Bret had to fill it with all-David Dejesus, all the time.
Supposedly, Brackman doesnt have to stick on the 25 man roster until 2013. I guess the yanks picked up an extra option because of the injury. At that point, he’s still under their control through arbitration for a few more years.
Others say that he has to stick on ML roster starting with 2012.
The Philly Phitins June 15th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
How does a (cough) NL playoff contender, with such an ace like Doc, only be in 3rd place in the NL East after getting massacred by the 3rd place AL East team? The Fills (Cough) are behind the Metropolitans even. Maybe your brilliant GM can sign someone to run a hidden camera to help the hapless filly hitters out again! LOL! (Cough)
Ugh. You’re keeping it going. Who would you trade Gardner for? And how’s DeJesus going to DH with Jorge and Alex blocking him next year?
MTU (aka GBURL) June 15th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
Since were just talking here in hypothetical terms.
And this is just to gauge value on value only.
Let’s just say the M’s were willing to to trade KFelix to the Yankees.
Would Montero/Romine + Nunez + Joba + ? Get it or would Jack Z just laugh and hang up the phone on that.
I know it’s not going to happen, and I am not suggesting it should.
Just trying to gauge what it might take that’s all.
***********
I think Seattle must retain King Felix because they’re gonna surely lose Lee.
Montero/Romine + Joba/Brackman + Nunez might be a good package for Greinke or Hanley Ramirez.
Make Hanley the DH/-emergency 3B/SS
“Why is Brett Gardner’s performance the most likely to fall off its current pace?”
Cause everyone here knows all and can predict the future. Keep up, Doreen!
m June 15th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Ugh. You’re keeping it going. Who would you trade Gardner for? And how’s DeJesus going to DH with Jorge and Alex blocking him next year?
********
Who’s playing 3b and catcher if Jorge and Alex are DHing next year?
I think one of the trip-ups here today is simply no common ground on some definitions.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting Nunez is a potential superstar level prospect. No one is expecting him to be regarded in the same breath as Montero.
But for the most part, ANY prospect that can regarded as an everyday major league player is thought of as legit prospect.
I think we’re simply disagreeing on the definition of “A” here.
The Phillies have no pitchers but hey they signed Howard to a huge longterm contract so that’s something….I guess…..no not really.
IPK pitching vs Red Sox tonight. Maybe the first time Boston has rooted against a Kennedy.
Joe from LI,
Thanks. That’s what I thought about Brackman’s contract. My next question is when that contract expires is he still under team control and subject to the arbitration process or does he become a free agent?
Ray, the shocking thing about Brackman is 7 walks in 55 innings with 51 strikeouts. More than 7 strikeouts per walk is impressive regardless of leagues. Last year, he walked 77 in 106 innings. That doesn’t include 10 hit batters and 26 wild pitches last year, compared to 5 and 6 respectively this year. Even his defense has improved. WHIP has dropped from 1.706 to 1.255 and only 3 homers.
Isn’t there a dirth of ML ready SS? I’d hold on to Nunez for a while. Might even give him a hug.
SS Jeter
RF Swisher
1B Teixeira
DH Rodriguez
2B Cano
C Posada
CF Granderson
3B Pena
LF Gardner
Thanks, Doreen
Brett-
Guys like you mentioned : Hanley, Greinke, or Felix even if they were available would command a minimum of 4 really good players IMO.
It could be 4 A minor leagers or a combo of 2 A minor leaguers and 2 Ml ready players, etc.
There are probably some guys that are nearly untouchable.
I was just having some fun. Nothing more.
Stuckey,
That’s what I think as well
Looks like Chipper is going to retire
The Philly Phitins June 15th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
How does an (cough) Ace have the same amount of wins, as the worst pitcher in your starting rotation?
Philly wants to know !
————————————————–
Yankee fans want to know……. how does our #5 starter have more wins than your ace and started the year in extended spring training. I admire your support of your team, but your lack of intelligent conversation…… all you ever say is CC, Halliday, blah blah blah, I assume that’s the only thing you know, doesn’t say much for Philly fans
I do wonder what happened to CR9. With the WC going on I expected him to be present on the blog for the games.
Maybe one of the lohud fantasy baseball participants decided to take matters into their own hands during the player buying scandal.
Investigation to follow…
(we still have our hands fully with Jerkface: serial killer and baseball fanatic.)
Philly BA/SLG/OBP/OPS all about 80 % points down since their secret camera was discovered.
More strikeouts of Howard and Utley to go around!
MTU (aka GBURL) June 15th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Brett-
Guys like you mentioned : Hanley, Greinke, or Felix even if they were available would command a minimum of 4 really good players IMO.
It could be 4 A minor leagers or a combo of 2 A minor leaguers and 2 Ml ready players, etc.
There are probably some guys that are nearly untouchable.
I was just having some fun. Nothing more.
********
I hear ya. I’d love to have any of those 3 and we certainly have the chips to get it done but it’s unlikely. They’ll probably buy Cliff Lee in the off-season and hold onto their blue chippers.
NYlY vs Halladay
Cano . 208
B Gardner .235
Granderson .417
Jeter .200
Pena .333
Posada .226
Alex .306
Swisher .235
Teixeixra .235 (above his current avg)
Go Phitins
pat -
I’m always running behind!!!
I just don’t think you can predict something like that; and while other players may have a track record, Brett really has no track record, save for last season, where he was getting better as he went along until he got injured. So, I don’t know how anyone can say they feel secure saying Brett Gardner’s production is going to fall off. It very well may. But it’s just as likely that it won’t.
In my mind, there are still a few things that Gardner can improve upon, but I have to say, I’ve been quite impressed this season. He’s giving the Yankees a lot to think about going forward, and that’s a great thing.
Happy birthday to my all-time favorite Yankee.
GreenBeret7 June 15th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
I saw some highlights of Brackman when he was in college. Monster upside. It is hard to imagine a 6′-10″ or 6′-11″ 240+ Lb pitcher that has control & can hit 100 MPH.
Brackman consistently throws a 92-97 mile per hour fastball that has touched 99 mph. He complements his fastball with a two-seam fastball, knuckle curve, and a changeup. His knuckle curve rates an 80 on the scouting scale of 20-80. His height and overhand action give his pitches a very desirable “downward plane”.
Hi Doreen,
Jeter-ss
Granderson-cf
Tex-1b
Arod-DH
Cano-2b
Posada-c
Swish-RF
Gardner-LF
Pena-3b
GTLU
SS Jeet
CF Grandy
1B Tex
DH Alex
2B Robbie
C Po
RF Swish
LF GGBG
3B Nino
thanks Doreen
RayVT
The Mets swept the Yankees did you forget?
Yankees fans in case you didn’t read it on the previous thread, here’s some insight into Charlie and the players thoughts, about this upcoming series. go to philly burbs.com read the quotes yourselves.
Go Phitins
So, I don’t know how anyone can say they feel secure saying Brett Gardner’s production is going to fall off. It very well may. But it’s just as likely that it won’t.
***********
I didn’t say that his production is going to fall off.
I said that he’s the most vulnerable of all the Yankees on the current roster to experience a drop off.
If there’s a way to bring in a versatile player who boosts production at DH in 2010 and 2011 while insuring the most vulnerable spot on the roster, I’m all for it.
I’m all for boosting production and adding insurance at the same time.
People need to stop taking this so personally.
I’m for Gadner being the everyday LF.
I wasn’t copying Patrick, honest! I figured out my line up this am, when I saw Granderson and Pena’s #s against Doc
Bret-
I agree. The Yankees now have the chips to get just about anyone they might want in trade.
They have absolute gold to trade with respect to Catching for instance.
The questions would be “What do they covet ?”, and “what do they really need” ?
I also agree about not burning prospects in pursuit of CL and having to pay double. Not necessary.
And if you don’t want to believe Patrick or me, OK by me! How about you, Patrick?
—
Fine by me Wave!
SJ44, Nunez isn’t a great basestealer. You can’t judge him on how many he could steal but what his steal % is. Last year he stole 19 and was caught 7 times. The year before that 14 and 10.
It’s deceptive to look at a prospect, compare him to the rest of the prospects at his position then name him an A lister because he’s at the forefront of his peers. You have to look at the prospect as a whole. And Nunez has one good skill – hitting for average. Sure he’s athletic and has some speed but that hasn’t translated yet. Maybe it will but considering the amount of time he’s spent in the minors, the possibility is low that he develops into an all-star caliber player.
And the comparison to Jason Donald is not a good one. Donald never had problems in the field as far as I know and showed much better power and on-base skills than Nunez.
The Yankees actually have a few decent trade trips in the system. As the draft srategy (getting really high upside/athletic picks) reflects a player is going to need to be really good, or a super utility player to have a legitimate shot at cracking the Yankees roster. Montero and Romine have that shot at catcher. A couple of pitchers Noesi, Phelps, Brackman, Banuelos have that shot at pitcher. They will plug some other guys into places like Pena and Cervelli have done recently. But for the next couple of years you will not need: 1b, 2b, ss, 3b, cf. Maybe an outfield slot or two opens but those (given the current state of the Yankees farm system) are more likely to be filled from outside the organization.
So, players like Miranda, Vazquez, Laird, Nunez all have to be considered trade bait. It only benefits the Yankees if these guys continue to perform as they have so far this year. Either they continue to mature and become Yankees or bring back higher returns.
Who is C & 3B? DeJesus!
trade “chips”
Yankee fans want to know……. how does our #5 starter have more wins than your ace and started the year in extended spring training
—
Because he gets more run support, obviously.
Halladay has been a much more valuable player than Hughes this year and it’s not even close.
Jeter SS
Swisher RF
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez DH
Cano 2B
Posada C
Granderson CF
Russo 3B
Gardner LF
JCPD
I only mention CC because he beat my team, and I mention Halladay because,
a.He owns the Yankees, and b..that’s the match up today.
I understand you would want to distance your self from that match up though. I feel your pain!
Go Phitins!
Five-
another key dimension, if you will, to having a surplus of Trade chips is to maximize their value in trade.
One way is for them to keep performing at better and better levels.
But the other is to know when to move them so as to maximize that value.
That takes some real skill and good internal scouting.
And the from all reports the Yankees seem to be very good at that.
For my part. I’d be reluctantly willing to part with Igawa for Justin Upton but only if you twist my arm.
Doreen
I admit I had limited expectations for Brett going into the season so he’s already exceeded them as far as I’m concerned.
Maybe it comes from growing up at a time where stats weren’t as readily available as today but I always figure the odds are 50/50 everytime a player steps in to bat or a pitcher steps on the mound. Seen lots of HOFers strike out and second tier players get game winning hits. Baseball often reminds me of the title of a book that the the comedienne, Julia Sweeney, from SNL wrote titled God Said Ha!
Mets did not sweep Yanks. They took 2 of 3. They DID however sweep the Phillies, with the Phils scoring a total of ZERO runs in the entire series. HEHEHEHEHEHEHE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO YANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
The irony of people wanting to put a hard cap on the ceiling of a prospect like Nunez is the big swing and miss most took over Gardner, and yet that doesn’t deter anyone from thinking they have a handle of the career of a 23 year old in AAA.
No one would argue that Nunez doesn’t have big-time power, or that he’s got elite footspeed, but there is a LOT of room to play within those two extreme tools.
Would anyone have predicted batting-champion/30 HR/MVP type seasons from Robinson Cano his first go around in AAA?
RayVT June 15th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
GreenBeret7 June 15th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
I saw some highlights of Brackman when he was in college. Monster upside. It is hard to imagine a 6?-10? or 6?-11? 240+ Lb pitcher that has control & can hit 100 MPH.
Brackman consistently throws a 92-97 mile per hour fastball that has touched 99 mph. He complements his fastball with a two-seam fastball, knuckle curve, and a changeup. His knuckle curve rates an 80 on the scouting scale of 20-80. His height and overhand action give his pitches a very desirable “downward plane”.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Brackman will be a fun watch this summer. I think that once he gets comfortable with this new set of mechanics, he’ll get the speed back up to the upper 90s, but, with what he has now to combine with control, it should be more than enough to work with going forward. after this year, they should have a good idea of where they stand with their young farm pitchers, they can decide whether brackman is a starter or 8th inning guy to understudy with Chamberlain and Rivera. Imagine Brackman and Chamberlain closing out after Rivera retires. Coupled with Robertson, the game is back to a 6 inning affair again.
another key dimension, if you will, to having a surplus of Trade chips is to maximize their value in trade.
One way is for them to keep performing at better and better levels.
But the other is to know when to move them so as to maximize that value.
***************
That’s my thinking with Eduardo Nunez. He can’t do much more to maximize his value. He is raking in AAA. His value has peaked. The only thing that would further boost it is an extended successful run at the major league level which is highly unlikely since Jeter and Pena are ahead of him and even then he’s not guaranteed to excel in the majors. He could bomb.
Peak value for Nunez is 2010 trade deadline.
Sell high.
Stuckey, I am not putting a hard cap on his ceiling. As I’ve said, he has the potential to be a very good player. Thus far he hasn’t come near that potential and the chances he does are pretty low.
And the people that were down on Gardner were expecting his numbers to take a huge hit once he got to the majors. Well he’s basically the same player this year that he was when in AAA.
If Nunez hits the same way he is now in the majors he’d be a decent player and that’s all I’m saying. I don’t consider a player that will likely be a below average starter at his position an A-list prospect.
The Philly Phitins June 15th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
You are humorous! The reason your last place pitcher has more wins than CC is simple. The Fills play lousy teams. What happened when he faced the RSox? CC on the other hand is usually going against an ace from the opposing team. He didn’t get 1 win because of rain in which Yanks were winning after 4 2/3 innings. Also, in case you want facts, CC is always a slow starter. He most likely will pick today to show just how great he is. Especially since the binoculars won’t be calling the pitches for the Fills. Hmm, it has really been tough in Filly since they had to play it straight. Kind of like the Patriots thingy, you know.
Is there any chance that Jonathan Albaladejo can be a factor for the Yanks? It seems like he is having a great first half at SWB.
pat-
Actually, the trials and tribulations of ballplayers can actually remind one more of a book written by a psychologist named Fritz Perls called “In and out of the garbage pail”.
Even for the best ones hitting is mostly about failing less often.
MTU – Agree completely.
I know this is a different sport, but I heard Danny Ainge talk about that a few years ago when he turned over most of his young talent for what eventually amounted to Allen and Garnett and lead to one championship and maybe another tonight. He said it is probably as important if not more so to be able to scout and evaluate your OWN talent.
It is impossible to judge the future, but you would imagine that watching a player play every day would give a team an advantage in a deal.
As I said before, the Yankees while not having an unbelievable farm system certainly have guys that are good. The next few years will be interesting to watch as Cashman has to turn over a bit of the roster, judge which prospects are prospects for the Yankees and which may lead to players obtained in a trade.
I admit to being a sucker for following the minor leagues through box scores and websites, but generally have not seen these guys play. It is nice to watch progress over the years and the guys move through the system.
Phitins-
your team is in 3rd place, behind the Mets and Braves, and are closer in standing to the Nationals than the Braves.
No matter how this series winds up, you still won’t be in first place.
Patrick
Phil almost allowed the Astros to come back and win. He was struggling to get 1 out and gave up 4 runs.
He’s good, but he’s human.
Go Phitins!
Nice pickup by Oakland getting Conor Jackson from Arizona.
Looks like the D’Backs are opening up the team to try and shake things up while they still have time to close the gap on the rest of the NL West (unless you really believe in the Padres?)
Obviously Justin Upton, Mark Reynolds aren’t going anywhere, and despite rumblings that they’ll listen, I don’t expect Dan Haren to go anywhere either.
Only guy on that roster who is available that could have a role with the Yankees might be Aaron Heilman (28 IP, 9 BB, 23 K)
The Yankees have 5 pitchers that are better than the Phitan’s #2.
JoeyA
Just the motivation the Phightins need Yankkes!
Go Phitins!
GreenBeret,
Do you see Brackman as a reliever and not a starter?
Patrick June 15th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
And if you don’t want to believe Patrick or me, OK by me! How about you, Patrick?
—
Fine by me Wave!
SJ44, Nunez isn’t a great basestealer. You can’t judge him on how many he could steal but what his steal % is. Last year he stole 19 and was caught 7 times. The year before that 14 and 10.
It’s deceptive to look at a prospect, compare him to the rest of the prospects at his position then name him an A lister because he’s at the forefront of his peers. You have to look at the prospect as a whole. And Nunez has one good skill – hitting for average. Sure he’s athletic and has some speed but that hasn’t translated yet. Maybe it will but considering the amount of time he’s spent in the minors, the possibility is low that he develops into an all-star caliber player.
And the comparison to Jason Donald is not a good one. Donald never had problems in the field as far as I know and showed much better power and on-base skills than Nunez.
———————————————————————————————————————-
You bring up his steals and caught stealings of the last two years, but, ignore his 14-3 this year?
Patrick,
SB% is something that changes from year to year with prospects as they learn how to read pitchers and steal bases. Nunez has improved in that area each year.
At 25 years old in AAA, Jason Donald hit .253 with 4 HR, 34 RBI, 27 2B, and had a .711 OPS.
How is that having “more power” than Nunez.
Nunez is putting up his numbers, better numbers, and is 2 years younger.
He isn’t as good a fielder as Donald. However, he’s even improved in that area. Enough to where scouts see him as being able to be an everyday SS at the ML level.
Again, he’s doing this and is 2 years younger than Donald.
How is one guy an “A List” SS prospect and the other not?
That’s not the case, which is why Nunez has risen up the charts with the season he is having so far this year at an elite position such as SS.
Chip,
I’ve always like Heilman.
Don’t want Haren.
Miss Cleo (aka Philly Phitins),
Don’t get too excited. While your ace is indeed better than our #5 starter, all 4 of our other starters are better than the rest of your rotation.
One last point…..
Donald’s numbers in AAA were compiled in 98 games. Unless he goes into a deep slump, Nunez will surpass just about all of Donald’s AAA numbers prior to playing 98 AAA games.
Jete ss
grandy cf
tex 1b
al dh
rob 2b
po c
swish rf
gardy lf
nino 3b
I’ve never seen Brackman pitch so this is JMO, just speculating. But since they drafted him as a SP I think they should let him develop as such and give him the chance to start, if he earns it. Cashman has said it is harder to find good SP than good BP. I also wonder if he were a reliever, wouldn’t he be a stolen base waiting to happen? At 6-10 it must take him a while to deliver the pitch. A SB in the 9th could mean the game. Of course maybe he’s so good not many baserunners.
RayVT
You keep telling yourself that, sooner or later you’ll get real.
Halladay WILL give the Yankees the not so royal treatment, he ain’t playing, watch!
I admit the next 2 games are a toss up, (Which AJ will show up?) but……WE GOT THIS 1st one!
Go Phitins
SJ-
I think what your trying to say is that this is a breakout season for Nunez and as such his star has risen considerably increasing his overall value in the eyes of many people who evaluate such things for a living.
Isn’t that about it ?
Phil Columbus June 15th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Is there any chance that Jonathan Albaladejo can be a factor for the Yanks? It seems like he is having a great first half at SWB.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Two words. Colter Bean.
Phitins was the busted cameraman for the Phillies, he doesn’t have a job anymore so he’s trolling the board.
Meanwhile, the Phillies offense has gone down the toilet now that they aren’t stealing signs anymore.
Regarding Nunez – he might not be an A level prospect overall, but then SS prospects are terrible overall and particularly bad now.
Go take a look at the SS on the BA an BP top 100 prospect lists headed into this season. They are poor as a group. And that’s the “best” of them.
The SS prospects in the game now generally fall into the usual molds – 1. all glove no hit, 2. unlikely to stay on the position, 3. does several things well but nothing outstanding, 4. great tools but not performing.
The vast majority of SS prospects right now fall into one of those groups – they generally all have major defects to their games. Perhaps Starlin Castro is the most complete but even he’s struggling a great deal at the major league level. He’s very young and was rushed but it’s still very hard to know what kind of player he’ll be.
There simply aren’t many good SS prospects in the game at any one time and right now complete players at that position are very rare.
The best thing about Nunez this year is that he’s gone from a SS who simply couldn’t field the position to one who appears to be able to.
That means he’s moved from the category of “unlikely to stay at the position” to at least “does several things well but nothing outstanding.”
And for a SS that’s a fairly valuable prospect.
MTU
The title sounds appropriate.
When I heard a player like Jeter says he looks for one positive in every game and somedays it is harder to find one than others I’m more of a mindset to applaud the success than damn the failure.
“Bret the Hitman June 15th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Chip,
I’ve always like Heilman.
Don’t want Haren.”
I don’t like Heilman. Always had the tendency to give up thebig hit or the long ball in the most crucial situations. Like Game 7 of the 2006 NLCS.
Of Nunez’ 7 errors, 4 are in 57 games at shortstop and the other 3 come at 7 games at 2nd and 3rd base.
SJ44,
Way to completely ignore Donald’s stats in A+ and AA.
In 2007 at A+ Donald hit .300/.386/.491
In 2008 at AA Donald hit .307/.391/.497 (with 14 HR)
So Nunez outperformed Donald in AAA. The reason Donald was considered an A-list prospect was his performance in A+ and AA. And hitting in AA is much more important than showing you can hit for a high average (and a really high BABIP) in AAA.
Just for a comparison, lets look at Nunez’s stats in A+ and AA.
2007 in Tampa – .286/.336/.350
2008 again in Tampa – .271/.305/.383
2009 in Trenton – .322/.349/.433
Nunez is playing well this year although there’s a major luck factor in his current batting average. But if you look at both players’ resume, it’s pretty obvious why Donald was considered an A-list prospect and Nunez is not.
Phils have tanked since Rollins went down. Seems like the have no energy or spak without him, which is sad.
MTU,
That’s my point. He has played well enough to be considered by scouts as a guy who could be an everyday SS at the ML level. That wasn’t the case last year.
Given the shortage of guys like that at his position at the upper levels of the minors these days, that makes him an A List prospect,. Giving the Yankees decent trade options for him, if they choose to go in that direction.
Patrick
Our Ace is better than your (swallowing hard) ace hands down,FACT!
Our Ace isn’t facing Andy or Phil, they get, as we call CC in Philly G&B= Gut and butt!
Go Phitins!
Phitins,
This whole rivalry between the Yanks and Phils only exists in your brain. You’re trying to get a reaction from Yankees fans to justify your desire to pretend the Phillies are in the same league as the Yankees, currently, historically or both. There is no rivalry. We aren’t amped to play you guys. We don’t care what you think of our players. You might as well be an Orioles fan. We don’t expect to see you in the World Series any more than we expect the O’s in an ALCS.
Patrick
Oh, so its luck that Nunez is hitting as well as he is. Give credit where credit is due for a change. Stop looking for poor excuses when you’re proen wrong.
Bret,
This winter I would almost rather see the Yankees trade for Haren than sign Lee.
Actually what I would really like is for them to forget about Crawford, sign Lee and trade for Haren; and either stick with Gardner in LF for another year or use Colin Curtis or just find another less costly option either by FA or trade (I won’t mention his name) – but I find that highly unlikely.
Use Nunez, and any prospects not named Montero, Romine, or Laird to get Haren.
My lineup and rotation:
Jeter
Swisher
Tex
Alex
Cano
Jorge – DH/C
Granderson
Montero – C/DH
Gardner
CC, Haren, Lee, AJ, Hughes
I’m not knocking Nunez, I’m just knocking the hype of him that’s going on around here. He’s a good player, a good prospect but not great. Maybe he’s one of the top SS prospects currently but that’s not saying much as CB correctly points out.
The bottom line is, if you are projecting Nunez you aren’t seeing an above average major league player. To me, that means he’s not a top prospect.
GB7
I guess he won’t be any help then.
“If Nunez hits the same way he is now in the majors he’d be a decent player and that’s all I’m saying.”
If Nunez hits the same way he is now at the major league level he’d have the 6th highest OPS amount SS in the league (AL & NL), behind Tulowitski, Ramirez, Uribe, Gonzalez, Drew and Jeter.
And it’s not like many SS are at the high-end of the stolen base category either.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/b.....order/true
“I don’t consider a player that will likely be a below average starter at his position an A-list prospect.”
I’m not certain how you can reconcile the two contradictory things you just said.
If he were to able to replicate his AAA numbers in the majors, he’s be a well above average SS.
Jeter SS
Swisher RF
Tex 1B
A-Rod DH
Cano 2B
Posada C
Granderson CF
GGBG CF
Pena 3B
Thanks Doreen
I’m not ignoring his stats Patrick.
He compiled his AA stats at the same age Nunez is right now. Meaning, Nunez doing what he is doing at AAA at 23 is more impressive than doing it at AA at 23.
What you are failing to take into consideration is, Nunez has improved. You seem to think he hasn’t for some reason.
The fact is, he’s doing what he is doing at a younger age, and a higher classification, than Jason Donald did.
Prospect ranknings are fluid. They change as the player either improves or regresses.
Its pretty tough to argue that Nunez at 23 isn’t having a better year than Donald did at AAA when Donald was 25. That’s the point I’m making.
Oh, so its luck that Nunez is hitting as well as he is. Give credit where credit is due for a change. Stop looking for poor excuses when you’re proen wrong.
—
I haven’t been proven wrong and I’m not using excuses. I’ve acknowledged that Nunez has a great ability to hit for average. I’m simply including what Wave has said about Nunez’ BABIP this year.
Pat-
I think that is why experienced people like SJ stress the mental side of the game so much.
Being a ballplayer has a lot in common with being a door to door salesman.
The door gets shut in your face a lot and you just have to keep trying
in spite of it. That isn’t easy.
The odds are generally against succeeding since failure occurs at roughly a 70% clip long term.
Most people would kneel down and just sob if they did anything where they failed that much.
GTLU
Jeter SS
Swisher RF
Tex 1B
Alex DH
Cano 2B
Posada C
Granderson CF
Gardner LF
Pena 3B
If he were to able to replicate his AAA numbers in the majors, he’s be a well above average SS.
—
Talking about his MLE
I love passion in a fan base, Yankees when I come in after the game, give Philly some respect!
Go Phitins!
I realize it’s just one person, but it’s funny to see Phillies trolls. Their team is severely underperforming. You’d think this guy would be on Phillies blogs praying for the Phillies to make some trades to fix the team instead of taunting the team with the best record in baseball.
I wonder what he said to Sox fans over the weekend. “Haha, we meant to get humiliated by you guys” ?
Its pretty tough to argue that Nunez at 23 isn’t having a better year than Donald did at AAA when Donald was 25. That’s the point I’m making.
—
And I agree with that point. My point is that Donald showed a better ability to get on base and hit for power than Nunez has and that’s the reason he was considered a top prospect.
My point is, if the guy projects to be an everyday ML SS, which he does right now, at 23 years old, the Yankees have a serious trade chip.
Just because the position is down in the minors, doesn’t negate what Nunez is, and what the Yankees could do with him as a trade chip.
Chip,
Why trade for Haren, which would cost real prospects, when you can sign Cliff Lee and only cost money and not prospects? That’s not been Cashman’s MO.
He will just sign the guy as a FA if he so chooses and not give up prospects for a guy who isn’t even as good a pitcher as Cliff Lee.
I was thinking about the M’s and how they might try to blow it up this season and make trades such as Lee who we all know is probably going to be dealt.
While I don’t want us to trade anything for Lee since we can sign him easily this off season, what are the chances the M’s open up the possibility of trading Ichiro?
I know he’s older (36) and I know he’s an icon there. He’s basically their Jeter right now. But the M’s aren’t going anywhere. This season is done. Next season they have no Lee and have to try to rebuild the worst offense I’ve seen.
If the Yankees would surrender to the M’s their catcher of the future in Romine and their SS of the future in Nunez in a blockbuster deal for Ichiro, would the M’s do it?
Would you be for it as a Yankee fan?
I know it’s purely fantasy talk, but the M’s swung for the fences and missed big this year. The organization has completely set itself back by trading their young top talent for Lee whom they now have no use for, not to mention the misguided notion that they were going to win with defense and no hitting.
Ichiro on this team means the World Series in the bag this year and that the remaining years of Jeter and Arod are going to dynasty years.
It’s a short term reward since the guy is 36 and signed through 2012, but how would you beat the Yankees with a team that had Ichiro leading off and Gardner hitting 9th with all those sluggers stacked up in between?
I know Ichiro has said he would play for the Yankees if he weren’t on the M’s. I just wonder if the timing is right to make a serious play for him. I think he’d waive his NTC to come play for a title.
“I love passion in a fan base, Yankees when I come in after the game, give Philly some respect!
Go Phitins!”
That’ll be tough since we’ll be too busy laughing at you and your patheic team.
GO YANKS!!!
As I said before, if the hype about Nunez is correct then his greatest value to the team (if he remains at SS) is as a chip in a trade.
He’s wasted as a bench player – the Yankees have plenty of middle infield back ups in guys like Corona, Pena and Russo – also we have no idea how Nunez’s bat would play sitting every day.
If you are saying, “just let him sit in the minors until Jeter is ready to move off SS” I think that’s sorta silly. Odds are that by that time the Yankees can develop another heir apparant or go out and acquire a player.
Only way I see him making the majors as a regular in pinstripes is if he moves off SS and into the OF.
“The bottom line is, if you are projecting Nunez you aren’t seeing an above average major league player. To me, that means he’s not a top prospect.”
There’s a real argument to be made there if you’re standard is “above average major league player.”
By that criteria (e.g. OPS+> 100-105 with plus defense) there may not be even one top prospect at the SS position in the entire game.
If you change your criteria to “above average major league SS” then the framework for evaluation becomes very different and Nunez looks very different.
Bottom line is that right now is not a good time to need to fill the SS position in baseball because the young talent there is very thin and limited.
Unfortunately, teams are going to need to fill that position regardless of the supply of talent. I don’t think the Mariners can live with Jack Wilson for another year – not with his complete absence of offense and his proclivity to get hurt over an over.
For teams like that – they are going to have to make moves. That demand is going to make players like Nunez look better than they may otherwise be due to the context of their positions. The alternatives just aren’t great.
“Only guy on that roster who is available that could have a role with the Yankees might be Aaron Heilman (28 IP, 9 BB, 23 K)”
—————-
Assuming the cost would be moderate in terms of talent, I think that would be a high risk move. Heilman has, for the most part, been inconsistent in his career.
There is no reason to think he’s a lock to succeed in the Bronx.
But there is little doubt the Yanks will look to add a piece to the bullpen so your thought process is legit – and he could be a candidate for sure.
Chip,
Why trade for Haren, which would cost real prospects, when you can sign Cliff Lee and only cost money and not prospects? That?s not been Cashman?s MO.
He will just sign the guy as a FA if he so chooses and not give up prospects for a guy who isn?t even as good a pitcher as Cliff Lee.
———————
SJ -
You miss my point I think. I would do both. I would sign Lee and trade for Haren.
That’s a dynamic rotation 1-5 and; a point that is worth mentioning; it protects the club for when CC is able to opt out of his contract after next season.
My point is, if the guy projects to be an everyday ML SS, which he does right now, at 23 years old, the Yankees have a serious trade chip.
—
I’m not convinced Nunez is a serious trade chip based on a few good months in AAA. Maybe, but I don’t think so.
Heck if Nunez turns out to be a great player I’ll come here and admit that I was wrong but if he turns out like I expect (good backup, below average starter) i’m going to rub it in everyone’s face. Just fair warning
Happy birthday Andy!
GTLU:
Jeter SS
Swisher RF
Tex 1B
Arod DH
Cano 2B
Posada C
Granderson CF
Gardner LF
Pena 3B
Get that Philly fan outta here
Will the Yanks be able to deal with having to play a team that’s not in last place? I say it all blows up in their face! Haliday takes cares of old rival to kick it off! CC spent!
Where has he shown more power in AAA? Donald hit 4 HR’s in 98 AAA games. Nunez has a higher OPS.
Donald hasn’t shown, at least at the AAA level, despite being 2 years older, more power or more of an ability to get on base, than Nunez.
By that criteria (e.g. OPS+> 100-105 with plus defense) there may not be even one top prospect at the SS position in the entire game.
If you change your criteria to “above average major league SS” then the framework for evaluation becomes very different and Nunez looks very different.
—
Then perhaps my definition of a top prospect and SJ44 (and the rest) differ. I tend to lean towards #1 (although I don’t like OPS+) and it sounds as if SJ44 is using the second definition.
The series with the Phillies is what it is: a mid-June series against a 3rd place team.
No one here is all that excited about it.
I?m not convinced Nunez is a serious trade chip based on a few good months in AAA. Maybe, but I don?t think so.
It is this kind of debate that suggests to me that the Yankees should move Nunez sooner rather than later.
How many times have we seen a prospect come along, get a ton of hype where his name is mentioned in a ton of big deals and then a year later the same prospect can’t even get you a marginal middle reliever?
Where has he shown more power in AAA? Donald hit 4 HR’s in 98 AAA games. Nunez has a higher OPS.
Donald hasn’t shown, at least at the AAA level, despite being 2 years older, more power or more of an ability to get on base, than Nunez.
—
As I clearly pointed out several posts ago, I am talking about Donald’s career in the minors, not just his tiny sample in AAA.
I think I’ve made my points pretty clear on this issue, I don’t feel the need to justify my point of view any longer. As Wave said, if you don’t want to believe me, fine by me!
I have been so busy at work today I havent been able to read anything on here, but I had to pop on to say HAPPY BIRTHDAY ANDY!! 38 never looked so good
“The series with the Phillies is what it is: a mid-June series against a 3rd place team.
No one here is all that excited about it.”
—————-
Yup. And even people who ARE excited about it, will forget about it in a week.
I still like seeing the Yanks battle Halladay though. I hope CC is up to task and we have ourselves some good baseball.
G. Love, I just don’t think Cashman would trade younger top prospects for a 36 year old with a mega contract, not even Ichiro. If George were running things, yes he’d do it! Not sure there’s enough mustard in NY for Ichiro!!
Doreen-
I goofed my line up? Can I break my own rule and redo?
MTU
Never thought of the sales analogy even though my first job out of college was sales territory development. Good comparison.
Don’t try comparing Nunez and other shortstops to players like Jeter, Rodriguez, Tejada, Tulowitzski and Garciaparra. They are freaks of nature. Every few years, you have a special run on one position. In the 50s and early 60s, it was center fielders. I the 70s, it was catchers. In the 80s, it was first basemen. Right now, it appears that power hitting 2nd basemen with gloves to match are the new gold. The chances of seeing shortstops like that anytime soon are pretty slim.
# BD (Boston Dave) June 15th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
“The series with the Phillies is what it is: a mid-June series against a 3rd place team.
No one here is all that excited about it.”
—————-
Yup. And even people who ARE excited about it, will forget about it in a week.
I still like seeing the Yanks battle Halladay though. I hope CC is up to task and we have ourselves some good baseball.
————-
Halladay is good, but the Yankees are in first place with the best record in baseball for a reason.
If they scratch out enough runs and win tonight, a sweep is well within sight with the rest of Philly’s garbage rotation following Halladay.
I kinda feel sorry for Halladay. He went to PHI thinking he would have a chance at a ring. At this rate, he could have just stayed w/ TOR.
Gee Boss Ton,
I don’t know even though they’ve taken 4 of 6 from Boss-Ton so far this year and they are not in last place. In the meantime, can you explain how Boss-Ton has lost moregames to the Orioles than they’ve beaten them so far? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have to laugh at the trolls talking about this series like it’s some real important series. You don’t win Championships in June.
Doreen,
Here is my line-up
Derek SS
Swisher RF
Tex 1B
Alex DH
Robbie 2B
Jorge C
Granderson CF
Gardner LF
Pena 3B
Thanks Doreen
At the beginning of the year, the Phillies looked like the best team in the National League. Right now, they don’t even look like the best team in the National League East. Hard to have a real rivalry between a franchise that has won more championships than any other team in professional sports, and a franchise that three years ago became the first in pro sports to lose 10,000 games.
vblade June 15th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
The series with the Phillies is what it is: a mid-June series against a 3rd place team.
No one here is all that excited about it.
**********
yup. Any Phils fan who views this as some foreshadowing of Yanks vs. Phils “The Sequel” is definitely delusional.
We play the Astros. We play the Phils. We play the Indians.
It’s all the same to me.
The only opponents that stand out to me are Red Sox and Rays, maybe Mets because the PR war but that’s it.
NYYROC,
I tend to agree with you. I think it’s 2 years too late to trade anything of value for Ichiro. Still, he is intriguing should he ever hit the market.
His 2010-2011-2012 seasons would probably be worth it if we won another title or 2 in those years and helped send Jeter, Mo, Posada out winners on their own terms. Considering the core of the team remains win now, it’s not a horrible idea to explore.
Jeremy June 15th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
You have to laugh at the trolls talking about this series like it?s some real important series. You don?t win Championships in June.
——————————–
True – but you can lose them in June.
Patrick – GB7 nailed it. I don’t think anyone is comparing Nunez to Rodriguez etc. But comparing minor league players to all stars or hall of famers is useless. There are precious, precious few who will actually fulfill that potential. To me a good prospect is one that will have a career in the major leagues (journeyman, utility, starter for a year or two), a very good prospect is a major league starter for more than a couple of years, and an elite prospect is an all star caliber (Heywood, Stanton, Strassberg, Montero).
Nunez right now is probably a good to very good prospect which makes him an excellent trade chip or someone that might mature into an everyday player in the big leagues and have a long career.
“Talking about his MLE”
Which is not an exact science.
And the previous paragraph you talked about how Gardner was replicating what he did in AAA in the majors… not MLE, straight-up cloning.
So fair enough if that’s what you meant, but I my interpretation was understandable.
I laugh even harder that they were shutout for an entire series by the Mets, and yet they continue to troll.
“Then perhaps my definition of a top prospect and SJ44 (and the rest) differ.”
I think this is actually where the actual disagreement is. The two of you seem to be using different criteria.
The more important point with a guy like Donald is that as an overall prospect he wasn’t anything special. But by being a SS he turned out to have significant value disproportionate to his talent.
Nunez is similar in this regard. The marginal difference between a Donald and a Nunez are secondary.
Nunez has gone through a transformative development year this season and he’s made a non-linear gain in improvement. He went from a player at SS who could not field the position and thus had no future at SS to a player who can now at least field the position decently and will in turn likely stick there.
That is an enormous gain in performance. That’s even more important than Nunez say becoming a more patient hitter at the plate.
Nunez appears to be undergoing gains in his performance which will allow him to play SS at the major league level everyday. That’s both mundane and enormous at the same time due to the nature of SS.
SJ is on the mark here. Any guy who profiles to be potentially an average to better than average, everyday major league SS is going to have value and there will be demand for him. The position is just so bad. His overall “prospect status” is much less important than his prospect status in the context of his position.
Chip June 15th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
I?m not convinced Nunez is a serious trade chip based on a few good months in AAA. Maybe, but I don?t think so.
It is this kind of debate that suggests to me that the Yankees should move Nunez sooner rather than later.
How many times have we seen a prospect come along, get a ton of hype where his name is mentioned in a ton of big deals and then a year later the same prospect can’t even get you a marginal middle reliever?
************************
Exactly.
Erica -
Yup! Did you want Gardner in LF or did you want to make other changes?
GB7,
I heard a rumor that you had a JB Cox update.
If you don’t mind reposting, I’d love to hear about it. I followed JB somewhat closely until he left the game.
Patrick – GB7 nailed it. I don’t think anyone is comparing Nunez to Rodriguez etc. But comparing minor league players to all stars or hall of famers is useless.
—
Where am I comparing Nunez to Rodriguez or players of his ability?
G. Love, makes me wonder if Ichiro ever considers asking for a trade. He, of course, is well known in MLB, but imagine if he played on a national stage (NYY etc.) and was in the WS chase every year. A shame to waste his talent on 2nd rate team.
“Hard to have a real rivalry between a franchise that has won more championships than any other team in professional sports, and a franchise that three years ago became the first in pro sports to lose 10,000 games.”
————-
even for a troll that keeps talking about “the facts” or “the stats”, that might be a low blow, hehe.
ouch!
5 Iron, i didn’t mean to say that anyone was comparing Nunez to those shortstops, but, those are the kinds of numbers that they now consider exceptable and anything less is cannon fodder. That was just an unusual run on shortstops. It was like in the 50s when one city produced 3 HOF center fielders at the same time. It just doesn’t happen often.
CB,
I still don’t see Nunez as an average or above average starting SS in the major leagues. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s not my opinion of him.
A lot of fans and teams haven’t learned what Jim Croce certainly knew :
“you don’t tug on superman’s cape
And you don’t pull the mask off of the ole lone ranger
an you don’t mess around with…. ” The Yankees.
That’s my point CB.
The fact that the SS prospects are few and far between in the upper levels of the minors, and Nunez is projecting now to be an everyday SS. That makes him an A List prospect at SS in the CONTEXT of what’s out there today.
That gives the Yankees something of real value on the trade market.
I’m saying the kid is going to be a ten time All Star.
I’m saying he’s in the upper echelon of SS prospects around the game right now and that gives the Yankees the opportunity to do something with him to upgrade the parent club. If they so choose.
That option was unavailable to them a year ago.
Patrick and GB,
Sorry for the mix-up.
“makes me wonder if Ichiro ever considers asking for a trade.”
————-
he must like something about Seattle. nobody forced him to sign an extension there. He could have hit free agency in 2008 if he wanted to leave.
Who knows…
Doreen – GTLU Stuff & Photos June 15th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
Erica -
Yup! Did you want Gardner in LF or did you want to make other changes?
*************
I am so confused. Part of me wants to go with everyone else but there is a nagging voice in my head telling me to bat Granderson #2. Sigh-
Revised Submission-
Jeter SS
Granderson CF
Tex 1B
A-Rod DH
Cano 2B
Posada C
Swisher RF
GGBG LF
Pena 3B
BD (Boston Dave) June 15th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
GB7,
I heard a rumor that you had a JB Cox update.
If you don’t mind reposting, I’d love to hear about it. I followed JB somewhat closely until he left the game.
———————————————————————————————————————-
all I had was that JB Cox has been put back on the active player list and on the active roster for the Tampa Yankees. Not really much more than that, right now, Dave. As soon as I can find more on particulars, I’ll put it up here.
upcoming Will Carroll tweet: I’ll tell you one thing, Nunez is no Iglesias
# BD (Boston Dave) June 15th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
“Hard to have a real rivalry between a franchise that has won more championships than any other team in professional sports, and a franchise that three years ago became the first in pro sports to lose 10,000 games.”
————-
even for a troll that keeps talking about “the facts” or “the stats”, that might be a low blow, hehe.
ouch!
Yeah, perhaps. Yet for some reason I could not resist.
No proble, 5 Iron. I didn’t really word it very well. It does read like you thought, though.
thanks GB.
that’s a start. It would be a nice story if he can turn it around (especially now recovered from TJ surgery) and put that talent he has to use.
Jeter is most likely gonna sign a new 4 year contract after this season. But I wouldn’t be so quick to trade Nunez. Jeter will be 36 next year and you have to have insurance in case of injury. Nothing wrong with keeping Nunez in AAA to keep refining his game although I agree that I don’t think the Yanks see Nunez as Jeter’s replacement someday. I think they are hoping this kid Cito Culver they drafted is eventually gonna develop into their next starting SS.
God I hate message board trade talk.
GTLU
Jeter
Granderson
Tex
CANO
Posada DH
Swisher
Cervelli
Russo 3B
Gardner
yeah, I’m thinking outside the box today
Here’s the deal Yankee I’m off to a business mtg., will return win or a loss for Philly.
IF the Phillies lose, Gm Amaro’s credit with Philly will be shot. None of the fan base wanted Lee to be traded, Ruben convinced us Roy was the golden boy who had the Yankees number. In Philly he’s being held to those words.
Go Phitins!
Erica
I know you like Swish in the 2 hole, but Granderson has better #s against Doc, and Doc is a RHP, so I think you made the right change
BD
I have been acting as GM for Erica and would like to talk trade.
anyone have any Pedro Alvarez predictions?
Pirates are starting to show some promise…
McCutchen is great. Garrett Jones has proven everyone wrong so far. Tabata, Alvarez.
It would be nice to see that team contend over the next few years.
The last time I was in Pittsburgh I learned that 64% of residents didn’t even know they had a baseball team
BD (Boston Dave) June 15th, 2010 at 1:55 pm
thanks GB.
that’s a start. It would be a nice story if he can turn it around (especially now recovered from TJ surgery) and put that talent he has to use.
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Yeah, if he’s physically sound and has the drive to do what he does best, he’d make a great addition in a year. He’s now 26 and has wasted a lot of time. It’s the last trail for him.
Everyone…CB -
Is that the name you always use, or are you someone else? I’m only asking because if you’ve played GTLU under a different name, I want to give you the proper credit if you win.
haha mick, send over any offers. Despite having a good week, she beat me up last week. She may not need to make any trades if her team gets on a roll.
“I still don’t see Nunez as an average or above average starting SS in the major leagues. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s not my opinion of him.”
That very well may be the case. But that’s a very different bar to set than wanting him to be an above average major league player.
Nunez could flop. It’s hard to know. But in general the same caveats apply to almost every SS prospect in the game today.
None of them are guaranteed to be an above average, everyday major league SS. Will Alcides Escobar? Defensively he surely will, but I honestly have no idea if he can hit over .250 in the major leagues or have an OBP over say .350? I really don’t know. He has poor hitting tools and a weak swing. And he was the consensus #1 SS prospect in the game headed into 2010. Will Hak Ju-Lee be able to? What to make of Tim Beckham? Will he?
SS is really poor right now. There is not one single true plus player at that position in terms of prospects/ rookies.
No More Line Ups Here — GO TO NEW THREAD!
and again Patrick
Nunez’s #’s in A ball and his 1st season in AA reflect that he was a young switch hitter primarily hitting from his weaker side LH…
Prior to last season he gave up switch hitting and hit solely RH his natural side and actually last season was his “breakout season”…coincidence?
He’s just validating what he did last year and that’s why his stock is rising….
His bat is legit and while he doesn’t project as a 30 HR guy he will hit in the teens with the HR’s and if you look around baseball there are not a lot of really good hitting young SS that can also field.
His D is also better than the error totals suggest….he has one of the strongest arms for infielders in the organization and has ++ range…his problem like a lot of young players has been lapses in concentration as well as rushing and trying to make the spectacular play…in a sense the Yanks have been able to get him to slow down and let the game come to him and improve his focus….in fact he started working with Jeter everyday beginning in January BEFORE ST began and that is also part of his commitment to improving his D…
I read last year where the Trenton coach was saying something like half of his errors last year were commited in the early part of the season when they were playing games in 30 and 40 degree weather which is very hard for many latin players to adjust to even at the major league level…not to use that as an excuse but it is a factor sometimes for these guys.
Happy Happy Birthday, Andy – wishes for many more and many more in pinstripes….
Doreen-
I’ve never entered GTLU. I’m glad that so many people enjoy it and appreciate the amount of effort you put into keeping it running. But it’s just not my thing.
BD
If still here go to new thread==========>>>>>>NEW THREAD
Playing Nunez everyday would be like playing Cervelli everyday before he went into his deep slump. He hit for a high average but our offense was still spotty.
And if you have Gardner in the lineup everyday, you simply cannot live with 2 guys who have no power at the bottom of the lineup.
Patrick
what is a league average SS in your opinion?
What is out there beyond Jeter,HanRam,Reyes and Rollins?
Tim
Nunez has a lot more power and projects to hit for more power than Velli ever will…..please know what you are talking about before you post
I play GTLU everynight and I’ve only been wrong once. I see no sense in submitting them and making everyone feel like dummies, though. I’m too kind hearted for that.
Looking at Nunez’s current minor league numbers, despite his gaudy .325 BA at Scranton, his peripheral numbers don’t impress that much. He doesn’t walk, never has. He does have 15 doubles, but they aren’t backed up by HR’s. He has a relatively high BABIP in the minors this year which doesn’t bode too well for his major league numbers.
If you translate that to the majors you are looking at a .275 to .280 hitter, with no power and no OBP to speak of. While that may compare well to other shortstops currently in the high minors (and I don’t know, I haven’t researched it but I’ll take CB’s and SJ44′s word on it), it doesn’t do much for your lineup.
If you think he will contribute more than that, then you are expecting him to take another step forward. That’s possible, but he has yet to do it and it is no sure thing.
How you categorize the guy seems largely definitional – but the numbers I see don’t get me too excited.
Patrick
what is a league average SS in your opinion?
What is out there beyond Jeter,HanRam,Reyes and Rollins?
—
Average SS over the last few years I’d say are guys like J.J. Hardy, Alexei Ramirez, Ryan Theriot, Stephen Drew.
It’s hard to say because as many have pointed out, SS is a very weak position right now. Most starting shortstops in the league are good one year, awful the next. As you say there are only a handful of really good shortstops.
So for me, I think Nunez will end up in that grouping of mediocre shortstops. He’ll have some good years, some awful years. I don’t think he’ll ever be a starter on a great team like the Yanks.
SS Derek Jeter
RF Nick Swisher
1B Mark Teixeira
DH Alex Rodriguez
2B Robinson Cano
C Jorge Posada
CF Curtis Granderson
LF Brett Gardner
3B Kevin Russo