Mariano Rivera’s long and strange night
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Podcast on Jun 24, 2010 
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I’ve written before that the only thing I remember about the first game I covered at old Yankee Stadium is that Mariano Rivera pitched the ninth. Whoever was sitting next to me in the press box — I actually think it was Pete — leaned over and said, “Watch this.” That’s when the gate opened and the music started playing. The man is amazing to watch, and last night was no different.
Not a save situation
Rivera hadn’t pitched since Sunday, and so Joe Girardi felt comfortable asking him to pitch two innings for the first time this season. He went into the game in the ninth inning and sent the side down in order on 18 pitches. Every one of them was a cutter. Only four of them were balls.
“People talk about his cutter, and his cutter is unbelievable,” Javier Vazquez said. “But his location is better than his cutter, I think. If he didn’t have that location I don’t think his cutter would be that successful. For me, the best guy I’ve ever seen locate pitches is him. He goes up and down, low and away. It’s unbelievable what he does.”
His fourth at-bat
Girardi never had any intention of pinch hitting for Rivera, and this time, the game’s greatest closer had the green light. “We had signs, what I wanted him to do,” Girardi said. “You’ve got a runner at third so go ahead and try to get a base hit.”
Rivera did try. In the fourth at-bat of his career he fouled off a pitch before grounding to first. “They didn’t tell me not to swing,” Rivera said. “I saw the ball real good. Not good reaction, but I saw it real good.”
Early trouble in the 10th
Rivera said he missed with only one of his pitches, the double to Justin Upton. Stephen Drew hit a good pitch for a single and an intentional walk loaded the bases.
“I was hoping, no more than one (run),” Alex Rodriguez said. “You think that they’re going to at least score one there, and then you hope that you’re able to score in the top of the 11th… Once he gets one out then you’re like, well, now a double play gets us out of it. I thought the biggest out was the first one.”
Memories of 2001
The setting was significant. Phoenix is the site of Rivera’s most famous collapse, and as luck would have it, Luis Gonzalez was in the crowd because the Diamondbacks announced during a pregame ceremony that his number was being retired. Rivera, of course, said it never crossed his mind.
“I started thinking about that,” Girardi said. “They showed Louie Gonzalez on the screen, and I’m well aware of what he looks like playing against him so much, so there were some thoughts in my head.”
Like that, poof, he’s gone
First a foul popup behind the plate, then an easy popup to third. Mark Reynolds strikes out a lot, and Rivera strikes out a lot of batters. It was over in an instant, and Francisco Cervelli was pumping his first like only Cervelli can.
“You know that he has the ability to strike people out, and you know that he can get the job done,” Girardi said. “He’s done it so many times in his career. Obviously we got in a tough situation there, but Mo was unbelievable.”
Here’s Rivera, understated as ever, talking about his night.
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I wonder what it feels like to be a living legend ????
And to be so humble at the same time.
Boggles the mind doesn’t it ?
It’ll be sad to see him go.
Luckily I was able to meet him down in Tampa before he retires.:-)
Mo has made a lot of people look smart for the last 15 years. He’s the great eraser.
When can Mo pitch again? Saturday?
There will never be another like him.
Repost (cause I thought it was that funny):
Shame Spencer June 24th, 2010 at 8:58 am
“Oh and I forgot to mention constant arguments between grown men and women through wires and Lcd screens. ”
Ahahahahahahaha.. *breathe*..ahahahahahahaha!
Boy are we going to miss this guy when he does finally retire…
I fell asleep when it was 5-4 Dbacks. Nice to hear on the FAN this morning the Yanks are now 2-1/2 up and our old buddy help beat the Sox…
Very cool summary of the night
From the other thread…..
Rich,
You aren’t going to be given extended chances when you can’t get outs. They aren’t going to DFA Park to give Melancon a job he has yet to show he can handle.
The team payroll size has nothing to do with it. If anything, they would LOVE to have a low cost guy they can count on in the pen. Melancon has yet to show he can be that guy.
Rookies don’t get extended looks in NY. If you don’t take advantage of the opportunity, you fall back to the pack.
Melancon hasn’t pitched well this year. Certainly not as well as last year. His stuff and command aren’t as crisp.
That being the case, he is fallen behind in the pecking order. Albie is the Scranton closer.
That tells you all you need to know about Melancon’s season to date.
Rishi
thanks for that link. I printed it out to add to my bulletin board. Can’t use it as my screen saver, that spot belongs to my son winning a wrestling match!
Mo’s ability to remain calm and focused in moments of the greatest angst can only be attributed the Divine power he credits them to because it is not human.
I’m hoping that when he decides that he’s had enough, and he announces the end, the Yankees give him a final game as a DH and see if he can’t get that elusive hit.
I intend to end my life when Rivera retires. I want to avoid the disappointment that will come with having to witness his successor.
Melancon has allowed 11 earned runs and 13 total in 20 MLB innings and he’s been inconsistant for the last two months. 4.40 ERA in May and in June until his last 6 games. Let us know when he’s “earned it”.
Outstanding summary….
You know what’s funny? If Mariano blew the game today, most of the children who can’t contain their emotions on here would be filling this blog with, “Mariano can’t even close games against a last place team. He’s done”, posts.
Funny what getting three outs can do, isn’t it?
That was one of the great Houdini acts you will witness.
What separates Mariano from everybody else is his unique way of slowing the game down when its at its most tense. He never loses his cool and continues to execute his pitches.
Very, very few athletes have that ability in high stress situations. That’s why he is who he is.
I think Jeter and Mo’s future monuments in CF are going to keep each other company for a long time.
Greatness captured together for eternity.
Just saw the highlights. Awesome Mo ! Awesome Yankees ! and thank you Giambino !
I hope Rivera goes out on top whenever that may be (hopefully some time from now). I would really hate to see him hang on and face being called “blown save Rivera” or some of the other stuff that I’m sure supposed Yankee fans would come up with.
Believe me, the Yankees would LOVE for Mark Melancon to be a contributor. It would make their lives a LOT easier.
Fact is though, he hasn’t pitched well this year. Certainly not well enough to be given a role in the bullpen. If he has shown even an inkling of being a guy they could count on, he would be in the bullpen right now.
Its not one of those cases where the internal politics aren’t on his side. They are.
He simply has not pitched consistently enough for them to feel comfortable with him at the major league level.
SJ
In 2009, his ML ERA was 3.86. His mL ERA was 2.89.
As I said, he pitched well at SWB until his promotion this season.
Robertson struggled early in his ML tenure. It often takes guys a little time to get adjusted.
Park is going to continue to break this team’s heart.
ah the power of the golden thong helps the Yankees again!
GB
what about Mo having a chance to play OF one time? Guidry got his chance, why not Mo.
SJ44 June 24th, 2010 at 9:10 am
Outstanding summary….
You know what’s funny? If Mariano blew the game today, most of the children who can’t contain their emotions on here would be filling this blog with, “Mariano can’t even close games against a last place team. He’s done”, posts.
Funny what getting three outs can do, isn’t it?
That was one of the great Houdini acts you will witness.
What separates Mariano from everybody else is his unique way of slowing the game down when its at its most tense. He never loses his cool and continues to execute his pitches.
Very, very few athletes have that ability in high stress situations. That’s why he is who he is.
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Had he lost that game, Rivera is probably the only one that wouldn’t have changed his perception of reality. If people didn’t realize that he never changes, just look back at the 2001 WS. He said more than once that there was a reason for that loss. It saved the life of a close friend in Enrique Wilson. Whether people chose to believe in those sorts of things is irrelevant. What matters is that Rivera does. That’s what makes him be able to do the things he does like no one ever has before.
upstate kate June 24th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Rishi
thanks for that link. I printed it out to add to my bulletin board. Can?t use it as my screen saver, that spot belongs to my son winning a wrestling match!
========================
I just did the same – didn’t think about printing it out before. It will make a great view for the Red Sox fans who like to pop into my office for visits
Does anybody remember that play on the foul pop up to 3rd where A-rod almost killed(LOL) that little kid with the Yankees hat? Did anybody see the girl sitting behind that kid? I was falling asleep almost all game long after that I was all ready to go lol
upstate kate June 24th, 2010 at 9:16 am
ah the power of the golden thong helps the Yankees again!
GB
what about Mo having a chance to play OF one time? Guidry got his chance, why not Mo.
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I can accept that. Let him play the first 8 innings in center field, hit two homers, a double and a single, steal two bases and then come in and save Pettitte’s 300th win.
I think MTU summed up last night the best in the last thread….
Boston lost.
Tampa lost.
The Yankees won.
That’s really all that needs to be said.
There are going to be nights over 162 games where you play horribly. The Yankees were horrible last night.
Missed signs, terrible baserunning. Bad AB’s in key situations. Horrible meltdown by Marte, etc.
Yet, they found a way to WIN the game.
Its why I never understand the folks in the game thread who say this team “quits” or “doesn’t care”. Really? Do you really believe that or are you so emotional you can’t think clearly.
Both Arod and Mo said in their post-game interviews the team has to be better. Both weren’t happy with the play of the team.
Seems to me that shows these guys care A LOT.
Some fans have to stop confusing lack of results with lack of effort.
Lack of effort and not caring is NOT a problem with this team. Hasn’t been for a LONG time and isn’t starting now.
“He said more than once that there was a reason for that loss. It saved the life of a close friend in Enrique Wilson.”
???
IIRC it had something to do with Wilson not being on a plane that crashed.
Rishi June 24th, 2010 at 9:17 am
upstate kate June 24th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Rishi
thanks for that link. I printed it out to add to my bulletin board. Can?t use it as my screen saver, that spot belongs to my son winning a wrestling match!
========================
I just did the same – didn’t think about printing it out before. It will make a great view for the Red Sox fans who like to pop into my office for visits
———————————————————————————————————————-
Hang it right next to the picture of Papelbon slinking off of the mound with his head bowed as a Yankee hits a walk off grand slam? Little tags under the photos labeled: GOD and DOG.
Worry about the BP.
Why ?
When I know the Yankees are going to make some adjustments before the Trade deadline.
It’s going to get straightened out.
So of course the one night I decide I can’t stay up it turns out to be a ridiculously exciting game
Really well said SJ44-
Obviously, I didn’t see the end but the fact that nothing went right last night and they still found a way to win, shows some serious heart
“So of course the one night I decide I can’t stay up it turns out to be a ridiculously exciting game”
I tried to fall asleep, but couldn’t. Now, I’m tired. I envy you.
Erica-
Well, if you would just stop going to the beach so often, and spending so much of your energy destroying the competition in scrabble you’d be fine.
Hey-
The Yankees have a 2.5 game lead!!!!!!
NYYROC June 24th, 2010 at 9:24 am
IIRC it had something to do with Wilson not being on a plane that crashed.
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wilson was scheduled to fly home after the celebration parade. he took an earlier flight after the loss. The plane he was ticketed for crashed, killing everyone on board.
GB
on behalf of dogs everywhere, how can you compare Paps to a dog???
If the Yankees had won in 2001 Wilson was scheduled to be on the plane that crashed in Queens in Nov. of 2001. They did not win, so he was able to take an earlier flight:
“New York Yankee infielder Enrique Wilson was scheduled to be on the flight. However, when the Yankees lost the 2001 World Series to the Arizona Diamondbacks and there would be no victory parade, Wilson flew home a few days earlier and was not on the flight.[30]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....Flight_587
Rich in NJ June 24th, 2010 at 9:27 am
?So of course the one night I decide I can’t stay up it turns out to be a ridiculously exciting game?
I tried to fall asleep, but couldn?t. Now, I?m tired. I envy you.
***************
My mistake was staying up Monday night. It pretty much ruined me.
I think I would have tried to stay up except it was almost two hours in and the 4th inning. What time did it end??
The funny part is, usually when I go to sleep before the end of the game I dream of the score. Its not usually correct, but I know my subconscious is trying. Last night, I dreamt it was 18-6 Arizona. REALLY glad I was wrong.
GB-
More proof that when your number is up it’s up.
kate-
Good point.
Rich,
This year, he hasn’t been the same guy. His stuff has been short all year. MPH is down on his fastball, curveball isn’t as good, and his command hasn’t been there.
When they called up Robertson, there was nothing wrong with his stuff. His problem was command. He was also pitching much better in AAA than Melancon is right now.
I’m a Melancon fan. I would like to see the guy make it. Especially since it would be one less hole to fill on the team.
However, his stuff and command simply hasn’t been there this year.
The stats don’t even tell the entire story. Edwar Ramirez had eyepopping stats in AAA yet, couldn’t get out big league hitters.
Melancon’s stuff just isn’t the same as it was last year.
Hopefully, he can find it in the next six weeks and save them the task of trading for a bullpen arm.
Right now though, he’s not the answer. Just not showing enough to warrant giving him a spot in the pen.
Two nights in a row that Joba has found that extra velocity on his fastball. The weather or has he found something that we thought was gone?
Tom in NJ June 24th, 2010 at 9:29 am
If the Yankees had won in 2001 Wilson was scheduled to be on the plane that crashed in Queens in Nov. of 2001. They did not win, so he was able to take an earlier flight:
***********
I remember that crash.
My family lives right by JFK Airport. It was so soon after 9/11 that when I heard another plane crashed by the airport I panicked
upstate kate June 24th, 2010 at 9:29 am
GB
on behalf of dogs everywhere, how can you compare Paps to a dog???
———————————————————————————————————————-
I didn’t elevate him to “Killer’s” level of cool. but, I don’t know other dogs….only what I step in.
Let’s hope that A.J. Burnett was paying close attention to how Mariano got in and out of trouble.
Nobody can expect A.J. to ever be as prolific as the Great Mo is but an effort to try would help his cause.
Blake-
The fact that he has shown it several times this season shows that it is still there.
A delight to see.
What happened to U-Jim last night ?
Guess he showed he was a little human. I watched the Rockies feed and for the 1st 3 innings he was just unhittable. A dizzying assortment of plus plus pitches. Yikes !
From RAB:
Secondly, Kevin Goldstein throws some love Dellin Betances‘ way (sub. req’d)…
Just as scary (as Betances’ stats), one of baseball’s most notable high-risk/high-ceiling pitchers is impressing with his stuff as well, sitting comfortably at 93-95 mph with his fastball, throwing his plus curve for strikes, and showcasing a surprisingly solid changeup.
Hooray for having three pitches. Meanwhile, Frankie Piliere gives it up for Hector Noesi…
Noesi works in the low 90s with his fastball and reaches 94 mph consistently. But the biggest difference has been the emergence of his now very sharp curveball and command. He’s cruised up the ladder the last two seasons and should put on an impressive showing in Anaheim.
http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....ent-937196
MTU
I don’t want them to burn prospects for relievers.
Rich-
I understand but it may be necessary.
It needs to be fixed one way or another. Especially the later innings guys.
If no one steps up consistently enough then we have to do it.
SJ
At SWB, his BAA in April was .228. He was inducing GB at a 52.3% rate.
I think it became a confidence issue after he was sent down.
Wow, crazy story. Now that I’m reading the articles, it all sounds somewhat familiar but I’ve literally blocked out all of 2001 (that same year, my favorite hockey team lost in game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals… needless to say, it was one of the worst years of my life).
For the most part though, no one believes that any arms in AAA will be helping us in the second half? I liked what I saw from Nova, even though I know he’s a starter. Any other starters that could help strengthen the pen?
As bad as the base running was last night, it wasn’t as bad as The Doggers. Down 2-1 in the 9th and two runners on base. a pop fly single and a runner trying to score, Martin gets thrown out at 2nd base trying to get back to the bag to end the game before the tying run crossed the plate. That was after Matt Kemp was pick off of 2nd by Brian fuentes.
MTU
I’d rather lose than trade Betances, Brackman, Montero, or Romine.
GB-
I hope they continue when we play them.
A little bit of stupid goes a long way.
Yeah Green Beret, Betsy trolls this board as never seen before for 10 days, and it’s the one who calls her on it that is the jackass. Nice going old man.
Noesi could be given a shot in the pen this yr. He’s on the 40 man and they could give him a look after they’re comfortable with the number of innings he throws in AA.
Rich-
IMO, those are not the personnel who would need to be moved for a reliever.
If those the names suggested I would completely agree with you.
Trivia question……
Who’s bat and batting gloves did Mo use last night? Guess before you peak.
http://img.skitch.com/20100624.....gtyyut.jpg
If Melancon was as weak minded and weak willed as you seem to think he was because he was demoted for not doing the job in NY, why do you think he’s strong enough to pitch in NY? The whole “he was depressed and lost confidence” crap is just that. Not exactly a ringing endorement for a future closer/EIG, is it?
No fault can be found with a 45-27 record (best in baseball) with 90 games left. Once the bullpen leading up to Mo finds itself, there’s no real weak links to this team.
It remains to be seen what a healthy Aceves and Mitre will contribute but the best case scenario sees Park pitching no more than 1 inning in any given situation.
Cashman and Girardi have slightly more than 5 weeks to figure what will comprise the final pieces toward the big goal.
pat June 24th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Trivia question??
Who?s bat and batting gloves did Mo use last night? Guess before you peak.
http://img.skitch.com/20100624…..gtyyut.jpg
=====================
definitely not what I would have guessed
MTU (aka GBURL) June 24th, 2010 at 9:43 am
GB-
I hope they continue when we play them.
A little bit of stupid goes a long way.
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A runner safe on an error, a walk, 2 hits, nobody caught stealing or hitting into a DP? and not score? That’s as ugly as it gets. Just as ugly was the Cinncy/Cleveland game.
blake – thin air in arizona.
I’m really disappointed in myself as I passed out after the D-backs took the 5-4 lead.
Seeing Mo work out of that jam might have exorcised at least one minor demon in my soul.
“If Melancon was as weak minded and weak willed as you seem to think”
Oh please, even A-Rod, one of the greatest baseball players of all-time, has acknowledged occasional lapses in confidence, and he has already achieved a HoF career and has enough money for multiple generations of his progeny.
Save it for Dr. Ruth.
Pat
I guessed Nino, or one of the young guys…I guess he was trying for a HR
GB
Doggers??? why are you picking on dogs today?
Rich,
Stats don’t tell the entire story with pitching prospects.
Its not about the stats they compile. Its about the quality of their pitches.
You can get guys out at AAA with stuff that is less than what you need to get guys out at the major league level. You can also do it with spotty command since AAA hitters chase more pitches out of the zone than major league hitters most nights. Its why probably the worst way to evaluate whether or not a pitcher is ready to produce at the major league level is looking at his stats.
Could it be a confidence issue? No doubt that could play into it.
If its confidence though, I don’t see how you get your swagger back at the big league level. Especially with a veteran team looking to win. If anything, you need to bring that swagger with you from Scranton because its awfully tough to find it in a pennant race.
His stuff though is also shorter than it was last year. I think that also plays a role.
Perhaps he goes on a roll in the next month and his stuff and command gets back to the levels it was. If that happens, he gets back in the mix.
Right now though, IMO, his stuff and command isn’t good enough to get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. That’s why he’s not being viewed as an option at this time.
pat June 24th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Trivia question……
Who’s bat and batting gloves did Mo use last night? Guess before you peak.
http://img.skitch.com/20100624…..gtyyut.jpg
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I would have guessed it was Jeter’s bat, though, there are no hits in that batch of bats. The gloves stumped me once I realized that he wouldn’t use the same “gloves” that Posada uses.
Rich,
You just named four guys that wouldn’t be traded for a relief pitcher.
You don’t need to give up an A List prospect to get a bullpen arm.
If they do add an arm, it won’t cost them either of those four prospects.
Finally, bringing Mo into a tie game on the road! That’s what I’m talking about!
Much better Mo gets those innings than mop-up innings when he hasn’t pitched and needs the work.
Way to go Girardi!
upstate kate June 24th, 2010 at 9:51 am
Pat
I guessed Nino, or one of the young guys…I guess he was trying for a HR
GB
Doggers??? why are you picking on dogs
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Although they had some great players of the past, just never liked that team. Loved watching Koufax turn into an artist and willie Davis play center and run….couldn’t stand the team as a whole.
That was a piece of easy cake for Mo!
other fitting rivera lays down the law in ari after the bases loaded. guy the biggest big game player i ever seen
MTU,
Just one of those nights for Ubaldo..I watched some of it, he just lost some of his sharpness and location throughout the game…the Sox did a good job against him though…worked counts and eventually got him to make some mistakes.
Equally of note from that game was that Lackey got knocked around and his ERA is approaching 5…not exactly what the Sox were counting on with that contract.
SJ
Again, he did pitch well in NY last season and was jerked around. When the other choices are Logan, Gaudin, and Park, I think an extended stay in NY is something to be tried. Or maybe he’s not getting the right coaching?
For example, Joba hasn’t thrown as well has he has since Eiland left (Note: I wish him the best). His velo has been at 98 three times in that interval (last night in a back to back outing) and his slider has been at 90. We haven’t see that since ’07/’08. Are those two events related? Maybe, maybe not, but it’s something to consider.
I just think it’s so hard to predict how most veteran relievers will fare in NY after a trade. So who do you think they will try to target and what would you give up?
GB-
When I was a kid (eons ago) my Dad used to take me over to Ebbets field so I could try to catch homers.
Later Ebbets field with all it’s tradition and memories was turned into a housing project.
What a waste.
Blake-
Lackey is/was lacking.
Look for a power hungry AL team or an NL team needing a power bat at 1st that’s not going anywhere and has a higher salaried relief pitcher and add an Albaladejo or Luis Nenez to the deal and get the pitcher.
MTU (aka GBURL) June 24th, 2010 at 10:00 am
GB-
When I was a kid (eons ago) my Dad used to take me over to Ebbets field so I could try to catch homers.
Later Ebbets field with all it’s tradition and memories was turned into a housing project.
What a waste.
———————————————————————————————————————-
You must have been there the day Ebbets Field opened and watched Casey Stengel break in. Was he any good?
GB-
I must have missed that one.
It was a serious boatload of fun for a kid.
Never caught one though.
Look at Park’s splits when he works one inning rather than two. Stark difference.
If he is only used in one inning bursts, he’s fine. His trouble is when they try to extend him. I’m surprised they continue to do so because he always struggles in his second inning of work.
Logan? He has the blessing of throwing the ball with the other hand. Those guys, especially those that throw 95 from the left side, will always be given chances.
Gaudin is a long guy and the 12th pitcher on the roster. Melancon couldn’t fill that role, nor should he, right now.
Eiland’s absence has nothing to do with Joba’s uptick in velocity.
You have three things at play. Warmer weather, better mechanics and throwing fewer sliders. Warmer weather allows him to get looser faster and most pitchers love pitching in warmer weather.
His mechanics have been tigher in his last two appearances. Much more downward plane. More like 2007 than 2009.
He is throwing his fastball more. When he does, he can bring it. He gets too slider happy at times and he loses the feel of his fastball.
CB made an excellent point the other night. In the past, Joba would be able to get his mechanics corrected by throwing his slider. These days, he can’t do that and is hampers his performance.
I much prefer his outings when he features his fastball and isn’t so predictable with when he is going to throw his slider. IMO, it makes him more effective that way.
Who would I target?
Brandon League for one. I’ve always liked his arm. Not a lot of guys throwing 97 MPH sinkers from a 3/4 arm slot out there. Seattle isn’t going anywhere and I don’t think the cost of acquiring League would be obscene.
I’d still poke around the White Sox and see what it would take to pry away JJ Putz. They are on the fringe of the race but, that’s a flawed team. I could see Kenny Williams making changes as they get closer to the deadline.
A sleeper name? Joel Hanrahan of the Pirates. A guy with a huge arm but has never really put it together. More of a Brian Bruney with a better head.
That’s a guy you probably get for a song, take a flyer on him, and see if you can catch lightening in a bottle for a few months.
The dogs are ready to walk me. Back in a while.
Never caught one though
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a kid or a boat?
Seriously, if there was a time machine, those are places that I would visit. Ebbets, Forbes Field, Polo Grounds, the Philadelphia parks (Baker Bowl and Connie Mack). I got to sportsman’s Park in St. Louis, Wrigley, Briggs Stadium in Detroit, Comiskey Park, Sportsman’s, Municipal stadium in Cleveland and KC, and both Yankee Stadiums. That is heaven for anybody loving baseball. They might smell, be ugly to some, but, they are beautiful museums to me.
So glad that bos is facing a sweep tonight with Matszusaka bos fanatics are already questioning which Dice-k will show up on the mound.
To the Rockies this is payback for 2007. The Ubaldo bos faced then didn’t fair well, he went ,
4 2/3 innings and his team lost.
Papelbon was pretty efficient last night, how many closers could give up 2 runs on only 8 pitches!
SJ
Park’s FB and slider velo are both down one mph from last season. His change is up almost two mph. That’s worrisome.
But if your right that he is only good for one IP, why does Girardi use him for two?
As for Logan, ability trumps handedness and he lacks that.
Gaudin wasn’t good enough to stick on the A’s.
Eiland is not as good a pitching coach as Long is a hitting coach. They need to hire someone of that caliber.
I admit that Joba is an enigma, but the fact that he has shown recent improvement may be telling.
Didn’t the Mariners give up Morrow for League? The price could be high unless they are willing to admit their mistake.
I think Putz would cost a lot as well.
Pretty exciting about Betances.
Would an ideal rotation scenerio for the Yankees be to sign Lee and talk Pettite into one More season for 2011…then have Betances etc…vie for the 5th spot in 2012?
As far as relievers, if the price isn’t exorbitant, I wouldn’t mind seeing Sean Marshall of the Cubs or Matt Lindstrom of Houston, though, he’s going to bring a lot in talent.
Yeah lets call Melancon up so he can be the mop-up guy and throw 3 innings once every 10 days.
I don’t see the point.
If Logan craps the bed (he will) then I call Melancon up so he can get in actually meaningful games. I hate when Girardi uses Melancon as a long man.
It was over in an instant, and Francisco Cervelli was pumping his first like only Cervelli can.
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I loved that-and I was pumping my fist right along with Cisco.
Amazing performance by Mo
And on a separate note, Happy Birthday to Phil Hughes!!
rich in nj – 1 or 2 mph in any direction is not worrysome.
please dont’ talk about putz on the odd chance that he ends up on our team as a result.
There’s a little independent film that I like in which Lou Reed explains that the root cause of the inherent cynicism found in native Brooklynites stems from the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn for LA.
The central storyline in the movie is centered around the closing of a corner cigar store which the owner is selling to someone who wants to turn it into a health food shop. It’s the ghost of Jackie Robinson that eventually talks the owner out of it.
Relief pitchers never cost a lot during in season trades. Look back at the history of non-closer trade deadline deals. The cost is well within what the Yankees can afford to give up if they so choose.
Eiland is a good pitching coach. Joba’s problems are Joba’s. If folks are going to rip Eiland for Joba, how about giving him credit for Hughes?
Or, the way he forced Andy to go back to using both sides of the plate starting with the second half of last year? Since then, Andy has been an all star pitcher.
Or, having CC change the grip on both his two seamer and changeup last June and CC has been outstanding since. He’s also credited Eiland with helping him in that area.
Too many people have made too many excuses over the years for Joba. And also with AJ to a certain extent.
Those guys are what they are…..big talents with consistency issues.
Its more on them than on the pitching coach.
Eiland is a conveinent internet whipping boy to folks looking to place blame elsewhere other than where it belongs when players underperform.
The Yankees pitching staff ERA has gone down every year since Eiland has been here. He has to be doing something right.
blake,
The ideal rotation would be to forget about Cliff Lee and put Joba back into the job he was meant to perform (starter)
Ok ignore that, i don’t want to start another dumb argument.
Seriously though, I think it’s too early to try and project Betances or Brackman.
SJ44,
What about Eric Gagne? The Rangers were demanding a high price from the Yanks and Cashman declined (smartly)
Patrick,
I agree its too early to project them…just saying in an ideal situation it would be nice to have one of them slide into the rotation in 2012 (or whenever Pettite retires) as Hughes did this year.
SJ
We gave up one of our top prospects in Tabata (albeit Cash sold low) for Marte/Nady, neither of him are much better than average players.
It may be more than a pitching coach, but it may also be the pitching coach.
Eiland isn’t Dave Duncan, is he?
The Yankee staff has tons of high priced talent. So it’s hard to suck with that staff, but is he improving marginal guys and developing prospects? It took Hughes years. Joba has been up and down. Robertson has been up and down. It may not be all attributable to the natural peaks and valleys of development.
Patrick June 24th, 2010 at 10:33 am
SJ44,
What about Eric Gagne?
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:Shudders:
Talk about a scary decline
If Mark Melancon is going to have a role on this team its going to be as a short inning relief pitcher.
He’s not taking Chad Gaudin’s spot on the roster. He can’t, and shouldn’t, pitch in that role.
In order for him to crack the lineup, he has to overtake either Park, Robertson, or Joba.
Logan is only here because Mitre is on the DL. Once Mitre comes off, Logan is back to Scranton.
Once Aceves is back, Gaudin is gone.
Melancon hasn’t pitched well enough in Scranton to even unseat Park, as badly as Park has pitched so far this year.
If they were going to make a “merit move”, Albie has pitched MUCH better than Melancon and would deserve a shot before anybody else on the Scranton staff.
The fact they haven’t called him up tells you all you need to know about their feelings on him.
“Yeah lets call Melancon up so he can be the mop-up guy and throw 3 innings once every 10 days.”
That’s not Park’s role. I said I wanted him to replace Park.
But if your right that he is only good for one IP, why does Girardi use him for two?
—————————
Good question. Evidently the Yanks didnt pay attention to Park last yr in Philly. He gets good results in 1 inning stretches. After that, not so much.
Joba’s recent “turnaround” is merely him getting nervous as the trade deadline approaches. Same thing happened last year, he stunk it up and got his butt in gear for a few starts before the deadline. Then again, maybe the thing for him to do is pitch terribly to decrease his trade value.
If the starting pitching wasn’t doing as well as it is, I’d say the Yanks should send him and a top prospect or two to the Mariners for Lee. In any case, I am tired of the hype around Joba, I don’t feel like his head is screwed on tight enough to be a consistently effective pitcher (starter or reliever or ballplayer). Abaladejo and Melancon will come around some point soon in their MLB careers to help the Yanks at which point there’s no need to keep Joba around.
IPK is an untouchable. Go figure.
“Other teams understand that if they want to bid for anybody other than Justin Upton or Ian Kennedy, the Diamondbacks will listen.”
Per Buster Olney
Patrick,
Look at what Gagne eventually went for in trade. A fourth OF and a non-prospect pitcher.
Rich,
Young pitchers are going to have peaks and valleys in their development. That’s a natural course of things.
No, he’s not Dave Duncan. Nor are you getting Dave Duncan. Especially since Dave hates the way the Yankees treated his son. That’s a pipedream.
However, Eiland is a good pitching and has done a good job here. The numbers and performance backs it up.
Its not just about developing young arms. Its also preserving the arms you have and helping ALL of the pitchers improve.
Despite their workloads the past two years, most of this staff has held up very, very well.
To that end, Eiland deserves credit because he’s the guys designing the throwing and maintainance programs these guys work under.
Cliff Lee continues to show he’s healthy. MLB commentators keep saying he’s trying to pitch his way out of Seattle with all the complete games.
Injury is the only way the Yankees will bid for his services this year based on Cashman never wanting to pay twice.
If all is true about he and C.C. being good friends then C.C. will be the one that sways his friend to the Bronx in 2011.
That’s not Park’s role. I said I wanted him to replace Park.
—
They aren’t replacing Park. The Yanks will replace Gaudin and Logan before they get rid of Park. They like what he brings to the table.
Right now you don’t want to bury Melancon at the back of the bullpen in Gaudin’s role, and Logan is pitching well since his second call-up so they aren’t going to send him down until he craps the bed.
Then you’ve got Mitre and Aceves coming back from injuries. Both of those guys trump Gaudin/Logan/Melancon.
I don’t see Melancon getting a shot unless several guys fail or there are multiple injuries. Also, Melancon has to pitch better in AAA
So Eiland’s absence is hurting AJ but helping Joba?. Curious.
As far as Tabata is concerned, he’s nothing special as a prospect. Plus, he’s at least 3 years older than he said he was. If anything, the Yankees sold high on him.
No Marte, no WS last year. He was that good.
In the Yankees world, you make that trade 100 times out of 100 if it means you win a WS with Marte’s contribution to it.
Ironically, out of Jackson, Gardner and Tabata, the Yankees just may have kept the best guy for their team in Gardner.
They have always self scouted better than they are given credit for in these instances.
“They aren’t replacing Park.”
Not yet, but I think they will sooner rather than later.
Again, my original point was that I would not have signed Park and would have given Melancon that job.
I can understand having 1 inning specialists but the team has too many of them. Mo as closer, Joba as EIG, Marte as LH specialist, OK. But Park and seems like DRob too are only used or are only effective for 1 IP. That’s baseball these days but whatever happened to guys who could pitch more than an inning?
IPK is untouchable because he gets solid results (especially in the NL West) and he’s cheap and under team control for years. You don’t get rid of guys like that.
Patrick,
Look at what Gagne eventually went for in trade. A fourth OF and a non-prospect pitcher.
—
Engel Beltre was in that deal too and at the time he was a high ceiling prospect.
Regardless, the Rangers demanded a high price from the Yankees. Your point that relievers go for cheap at the deadline is not always true.
“So Eiland’s absence is hurting AJ but helping Joba?. Curious.”
Even assuming that your post is an accurate reflection of the facts, it’s not unheard of that a pitching coach can reach on guy but not another. It’s quite common.
But I don’t think Eiland’s absence is hurting AJ. He has always been inconsistent, and he continues to be.
“IPK is untouchable because he gets solid results (especially in the NL West) and he’s cheap and under team control for years. You don’t get rid of guys like that.”
And yet some here wanted him banished because he didn’t sound contrite enough in postgame interviews.
The price they go for ultimate is usually cheap. As in the Gagne trade.
Beltre was a boom or bust kind of guy. Not a high ceiling prospect.
SJ
“As far as Tabata is concerned, he’s nothing special as a prospect. Plus, he’s at least 3 years older than he said he was. If anything, the Yankees sold high on him.”
The problem with the trade is that they sold low on Tabata and bought high on Nady. If they only targeted Marte, they may not have had to give up Tabata.
I like Gardner. I always have, but he’s even exceeding my projections.
The Yanks starters have really taken pressure off the pen this yr. And when you watch the games, it’s not like they’re getting overworked either:
“The 2010 Yankees have a different breed of innings eaters. All five rank in the top 50 in innings pitched per game started. That includes Javy Vazquez, who got pulled early in a number of starts earlier this season. A.J. Burnett, who has also been pulled early on a few occasions, ranks 36th. Pettitte and Sabathia both average 6.7 innings per start and are tied for sixth in the AL. Phil Hughes averages six and a third per start. The Yankees as a team lead the AL in innings pitched per game start with 6.3. This is, of course, fantastic. Not only are they eating plenty of innings, but they’re pitching well. This not only takes pressure off the bullpen, but it also gives the team a better chance to win every night.
The Yankees, again, have used these starter innings effectively. They rank eighth in the majors, third in the AL, in starter ERA, 3.78. They again rank eighth, and again third in the AL, in opponent OPS, a mere point behind Toronto. They rank fourth in the majors, second in the AL, in opponent OBP. They’re doing it reasonably efficiently, too, averaging 100 pitches per game started as a team, which means 15.87 pitches per inning per game started. That’s good for fourth in the AL, third among teams that actually average more than 6 IP per game started.
To put it a different way, Yankees pitchers have thrown 625.1 innings. The five starters have thrown 438.1 of those, or 70 percent of the team’s innings. Again, that is a league-leading mark. It also seems like the ideal place for a pitching staff to be, considering the unit’s effectiveness. The staff is eating innings at a better rate than its peers, and it is pitching better than most of them. It is the main reason that the team sits in first place today.”
http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....one-30706/
Rich,
So has Joba in his young career.
I had hopes that Jason Hirsh would convert well into a relief role, but, he’s been a lot better start than a reliever. Tim Norton’s been through 3 levels this year (only 1 inning at AAA) and has pitched well, so, maybe by late August or September, he can help. I still like the job that Ivan Nova did in his two games in NY. Other than those two, not much help from the system pens.
The price they go for ultimate is usually cheap. As in the Gagne trade.
Beltre was a boom or bust kind of guy. Not a high ceiling prospect.
—
The Rangers refused to trade Gagne unless the Yanks gave up a high price. Therefore his price was high! It doesn’t matter what he eventually ended up going for, the Rangers put a restrictive price on Gagne when dealing with the Yankees.
All I’m saying is that this could happen again. Not every non-closer reliever is going to be cheap
blake
But we haven’t seen him hit 98 with his FB and 90-91 with his slider as often as we have in the last few weeks since he the days when he was consistent, and last night he did it in back to back outings.
I’m not saying that Eiland’s absence is definitely the reason, only that he might be, and that he hasn’t had the type of results that Long has hae even though pitching coaches usually have far more impact than hitting coaches.
SJ, you mentioned Duncan hated the way the organization treated Shelley. Could you elaborate a bit on that? Seems awfully interesting.
I happened to think that outside of Mo there were two positive stories to last night’s game.
1) Curtis Granderson. He’s struggled a bit, but when he gets going he’s going to be a tremendous asset in centerfield. He hits for gap and home run power, steals bases, and plays a wonderful centerfield. Huge hit last night, hopefully a sign of big things to come.
2) Joba Chamberlain. Seeing Joba come out with that kind of velocity and crispness two nights in a row is, in a word, simply awesome. That was 07/mid 08 stuff right there. I don’t know what he was doing with his slider, but he was throwing it so hard that it didn’t even really look like his slider anymore- it was almost unfair. His mechanics looked clean and smooth and he was locating that explosive fastball.
Beware kiddies. If Joba gets on a roll the only thing stopping him from being the best pitcher on this team in the second half is himself. The stuff, as we’ve seen the last two nights, isn’t gone anymore. Its about mechanics and consistency.
Rivera, Marte, Joba, Robertson are adequate to get the job done this year. I would not give up anyone promising in the Yank system in order to get another reliever.
We do need another hitter.
Eiland is gone therefore Joba can throw 98? Seems really really far-fetched to me.
I think it’s far more likely that Joba is throwing hard now because it’s hot out and he’s gotten his mechanics in order.
Rich,
In fairness, the second TJS for Nady kind of distorted the trade from the Yankees/Cashman perspective. It not only cost them Nady’s production from last year as a possible trading chip or better yet, no free agent compensation if they didn’t trade him mid-season and kept him for the entire season.
Dave Eiland left June 5th. Joba’s downturn occurred from May 18th through the end of the month. So, Eiland’s not the reason.
People often.overemphasize the coaches.
“Eiland is gone therefore Joba can throw 98? Seems really really far-fetched to me.”
He has gotten credit by some for less.
“I think it’s far more likely that Joba is throwing hard now because it’s hot out and he’s gotten his mechanics in order.”
It was very hot at times in April.
Craw
That’s true, but I never thought Nady was more than a league average hitter, and they acquired him while he was having an out of context season.
Rich you realize that Eiland has been Joba’s pitching coach since the beginning of 2008 right? This theory of yours is pretty out there, I don’t think you actually believe it because you strike me as a smart guy
Patrick
I also realize that Cash hired Eiland to shepherd the development of Hughes, Joba, and IPK and based on that standard, his track record has been very uneven.
I don’t claim Eiland is the perfect pitching coach. He’s no Dave Duncan for example.
But in general, pitching and hitting coaches don’t have a ton of effect on players. I think only the great ones actually help – Kevin Long for example.
My point was that Eiland has been here since 2008 and we’ve seen good Joba and bad Joba in that time. With Eiland out of the picture, I don’t see why Joba would all of a sudden start pitching well. It’s much more likely that this is just Joba figuring some things out or just getting into a groove.
And yes, it was hot at times in April but now it’s consistently warm and pitchers always say their arm loosens up in the warm weather. So I think it’s a valid point that Joba’s velocity might go up in the warm air. I think it’s more likely that Joba is finally getting into the groove of pitching out of the pen once again and is just naturally improving.
Patrick
I basically agree, as I said, I was merely raising a possibility.
But look at what Long has done with Cano, Gardner, and Swisher, and as I said, hitting coaches typically have less of an effect.
My main point is that they can do better than Eiland.
new thread