The good, the bad and the crazy
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 25, 2010 
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At one point yesterday afternoon, Brian Costa and I started laughing at the scene we’d just left behind.
The Yankees were not playing in Anaheim, but the Dodgers clubhouse had been full of more New York writers than L.A. writers. When Joe Torre finally walked into the dugout, he made a few cracks at George King, then said the obvious about tonight’s game.
“It’s going to be crazy,” he said. “But that’s fine.”
Yankees fans seem torn at best, angry at worst. Alex Rodriguez seems indifferent to his old manager, but the Core Four can’t wait to see Torre again. Me? I have no strong feelings about the man. As a player he had some great years on St. Louis teams that my dad really loved, and until I got this job, that was my strongest connection to him.
But I tend to agree with Mike Vaccaro: Yes, the ending was ugly, and that should not be forgotten, but it also should not erase some of the great years in this franchise’s history.
These next three games are going to be crazy, and you’re going to be pounded over the head with images and stories of Joe Torre. If you’re not sick of them already, you probably will be by Sunday.
But there’s also a lot to be enjoyed about this weekend, and I hope you’re able to do that as well.
What is there not to enjoy about this series?
I will enjoy it if the Yankees take 2/3………….
# mick June 25th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
Lebron isn’t winning a championship with the Bulls.
Hope he isn’t fooling himself into thinking that.
That and the ghost of Jordan will haunt him. Better off in NY, we will get the cast he needs to win it.
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June 25, 2010 at 2:24 pm What is there not to enjoy about this series?
___________________
McCarver
Just let the Yankee bats do the talking.
Betsy,
I know what Joe G. said on the radio, but I still don’t think it’s that big of a deal.
# Betsy -Hughes Rules (pleading the fifth) June 25th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Trevor, the thing that makes me ticked about the Knicks is that they are at the mercy of the FA and they put themselves in that position. They can not force Lebron or anyone else to come here (and, frankly, why would they want to come here), so what exactly is their plan if they don’t sign anyone?
_____________________________________________________________________
Walsh didn’t/doesn’t have a whole lot of options. He was put in a bad position after Isaiah left. I’m sure he has a second plan but it won’t be as good as the first. I still think Lebron is coming.
“If it hadn’t been for Cashman Joe would have been fired after 04, and certainly after the Detroit series (especially since Pinella was out there).
After the 2007 season Brian knew there was nothing more he could do for Joe. The club was not going to offer Torre the raise or contract that he wanted and there was nothing Brian could do to change that”
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well said.
when a GM/Front Office is forced to issue/attach a set of instructions with a young relief pitcher, the manager is pretty much of no use. And i believe at that point, Brian Cashman finally had no use for Joe Torre. Respect? Definitely. But at the same time, knew he was no longer the man for the job.
like you mentioned, Cashman had Torre’s back for several years. Perhaps Torre felt a bit slighted by Cashman at the very end, when Brian Cashman basically washed his hands of it all. I’ll advised feelings, IMHO
Much better in Chicago if they’re talking about 2 max guys and Rose.
======================
Lebron needs an enforcer.
Better off with Boozer over Bosh.
Kobe had Shaq and Gasol (not an enforcer but a great big man).
Betsy, can you make Phitins come back? We need some action here.
And enough about Torre, dont you see Chad tried to change the subject?
mick,
How soon is LeBron winning it in NY?
What’s the 2010-2011 roster and what’s the roster (and year) that LeBron wins it all with?
(serious questions)
Torre is traitor. Which other manager will get away with some of the horrible things said in his book.
To top it all he says “Cashman misconstrued it” “ARod related information is public knowledge. I never heard Afraud or b**b abt him until that book”
he is a money grabber.
He had incentive clauses for winning the WS in his first contract. he negotiated with Dodgers when Little was still manager.
this is all BS.
Always at the cutting edge,m.
True it will take a while for the Knicks but as a Knick fan I can wait and would advise LeBron to come here.
I don’t feel sorry for Torre, I feel empty that my favorite team treated him this way! Kind of like Winfield! Or Yogi years ago! Or Mattingly when he was kind of forced out of 1B. Or Reggie Jackson. Or Moose Skowron! Or Roger Maris! …
Were these moves right, I don’t know. I don’t really care. I still root for the Yankees! But those things make me wish they were not handled that way.
“Lebron needs an enforcer.”
Noah can bang a little. I think Bosh ends up with Wade in Miami.
Lebron will be a Net
It feels like the Yanks havent played in a week. I hate these west coast games.
“Please, enough with whining “Torre didn’t have them bunt on Schilling” crap. Exactly who on that team was supposed to bunt?”
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GreenBeret: it’s not crap. It’s meaningful dialog.
the answer to your question is: ANYONE
the point RE: bunting on Schilling is to force him to leave the mound and field his position. Something he may not at all been capable of. Doubtful. A few average bunts may have forced Schilling from the game prematurely.
You all should forget the past and stop talking about Torre as the media wants you to.
Have a mind of your own and watch the game with the sound off.
“Or Reggie Jackson. Or Moose Skowron! Or Roger Maris! …”
Or Bernie Williams…
I remember salivating a little when Pinella was out there.. I wanted him to be our guy for a few years if for no other reason than for the entertainment value.
the point RE: bunting on Schilling is to force him to leave the mound and field his position. Something he may not at all been capable of. Doubtful. A few average bunts may have forced Schilling from the game prematurely.
=========================
They thought it was ketchup.
BFKAD June 25th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
June 25, 2010 at 2:24 pm What is there not to enjoy about this series?
___________________
McCarver
___
EXACTLY!
“They thought it was ketchup”
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perhaps, Mick. At least that would explain it
# Shame Spencer June 25th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
I remember salivating a little when Pinella was out there.. I wanted him to be our guy for a few years if for no other reason than for the entertainment value.
===========================================
Isn’t that an endorsement for Paullie as next Yankee Mgr?
Nathan June 25th, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Get a life! Maybe you should put down your Ipod & actually read the book! Perhaps then you could see that Torre was being honest & showing a GLIMPSE of the circus atmosphere he worked. If it was a real tell all book we would still be steaming!
Santana had consensual sex, with a woman.
Why do they have to add “with a woman.”?
Billy D June 25th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
True!
mick,
I was being serious!
Let’s just start with the 2010-2011 roster. LeBron, David Lee, ….
Personally, I don’t think he stays in Cleveland. He gave them 6-7 years? They came very close to it with not much other star power. I don’t think Cleveland can draw the star(s) he needs to seal the deal.
Chicago, NY, miami would be much easier sells.
And I could definitely see Wade/Bosh in miami. But couldn’t you see them in Chicago? Wade/Riley is the key to the whole thing I think. How good a salesman is Riley?
What I can’t see is Wade/LeBronze together.
Schilling wasn’t exactly immobile on the mound that night. That team had two guys that could bunt, and as good/great as one of them is, he’s never learned the difference between a sac bunt and a bunt for a hit.
Vinny:
That 2004 didn’t win 101 games bunting the ball. They weren’t that kind of lineup. Plus they had just croaked Schilling six days prior. I’m fairly sure they went into to game confident they could do so again. Further, who in that lineup had the speed to drop a bunt and beat out a throw? Jeter, Rodriguez, and……well, nobody. And once down 4-0 in the 4th, what good is dropping bunts?
m
If Lebron comes Lee will prob. go
The Knicks are a wasteland but so will any team that guts itself like Miami did for 2 at max.
Chicago is overrated too. Rose and Lebron? He needs a killer on the boards.
I can’t imagine Lebron choosing any team other than the Cavs or Knicks, but if it is all about winning, he should go to Chicago. Their combination of cap space and young talent would allow Lebron and his guest, presumably Bosh, to immediately become a championship contender. However, I don’t think he would go to Chicago and play in Jordan’s shadow under any circumstances. The Bulls should probably just hope for Lebron to stay in Cleveland so that they can try to add Bosh and Joe Johnson. It looks like Wade will stay in Miami and, if so, I would assume they sign Amare/Boozer.
For the Tampa Yankee rookies:
Banuelos: 3 innings, 1 hit, 0 runs, 2 walks, 4 strikeouts. 3 ground outs, 1 fly out
Gary Sanchez: 2-4 with a double, 1 home run (#2) and 2 RBI (8).
Culver was 0-3 with no strikeouts or errors at shortstop.
m
The Cavs have very little to offer LeBron as far as added talent to thier roster. They may be able to make a trade to upgrade a gaurd spot, but that is it. I think he goes to Chicago. Kincks/Nets next choice and Cleveland a distant third.
Do you think for one second that if George had fired Cashman for Pavano, Igawa and Jaret Wright and replaced him with a seasoned respected GM that Joe Torre would have went to the owners and fought for Cashman and threatened to leave?
I don’t.
That’s why Joe Torre pointing fingers at Cash in his book as not having his back in the final hours rings hollow to me.
If Cash were about to get fired, Torre would have had a list of friends to give to George to interview or would have tried to get GM added to his list of responsibilities.
I’m glad Cashman is chilly towards Torre.
This is a referendum on Lebron
Will he take the extra money Cleve can pay or will he go to a contender?
Are they mutually exclusive?
Billy D – I couldn’t disagree with you more. Yes, Jeter and Arod were the only two who could lay down a bunt against a pitcher with NORMAL mobility. However, they were playing against a guy with a dead man’s ligament stitched into his ankle. They should have at least tested it to a) see if they could get some cheap baserunners and/or b) see if they could cause him some discomfort and disrupt his pitching.
GreenBeret7 June 25th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Hello GB!!!!!! So true!
Here’s what I wrote earlier about there being few spots or people that could bunt. It was a team of 7 sluggers and two bat handlers…Cairo and Jeter.
“Please, enough with whining “Torre didn’t have them bunt on Schilling” crap. Exactly who on that team was supposed to bunt? Cairo? He was 2-3 with 2 doubles and scored a run on Jeter’s single. They opened the 4th inning with 2 singles. Are you asking Williams and Matsui to bunt? After a double and single with 1 out in the 8th, was Rodriguez supposed to bunt? He was one of the better hitters during that series. There were also 4 1-2-3 innings and another with 1 home run and 3 outs in 4 batters.”
Enough of “As The Torre Turns.”
Buck and Stick are the unrecognized heroes.
Torre should have called their bluff and taken the 1 Year deal.
That’s all I have to say.
Afternoon, Ray. How are things your way? Hope that Rodriguez keeps ignoring the media that are dying to drag him into a pissing contest with Torre. The funny thing is, it’s killing their pre-written stories of “The Feud” or “The War Of The Words”.
The BEST thing about this series I get to hear Vin Sculley call a Yankee game.
mick – couldn’t agree more with your two statements.
“Billy D – I couldn’t disagree with you more. Yes, Jeter and Arod were the only two who could lay down a bunt against a pitcher with NORMAL mobility. However, they were playing against a guy with a dead man’s ligament stitched into his ankle. They should have at least tested it to a) see if they could get some cheap baserunners and/or b) see if they could cause him some discomfort and disrupt his pitching”
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^ this
thank you.
I agree with everyone who says that Lebron’s best choice to team up with Bosh and head to Chicago. The supporting cast is there.
I’m not sure the shadow of Jordan would even bother him. Once he wins a title there, he’s a Chicago legend.
That said, I hope he comes to the Knicks. I just don’t know why he would come to the Knicks. The owners are inept fools. The supporting cast thins out the second David Lee leaves, which he will have to in order to accommodate Lebron and another star.
The only reason I could see Lebron wanting NYC is money. If he’s smart, he signs with the Knicks and he invests heavily in MSG stock which will skyrocket the minute he signs in order to make more money than God. The endorsement opportunities will probably be the same for him though.
The MSG stock game though is an intriguing subplot since the Knicks can pay him the max and he can make a whole lot more through stock trading.
I don’t know if that’s considered insider trading, buying up stock in MSG before you sign a contract with them, but he’d have the kind of coin that most athletes dream about if he pulled that one off.
I meant in your 2:53 post. I’m glad Joe Torre moved on, and there’s a new Joe in town.
G. Love June 25th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
LOL! I love that! Do you think for one moment that Cash was to blame for those? Pavano, Wright, RJ, & Contraes were Tampa folks! Igawa might have been Cash, but they fired the guy who scouted Igawa & no one fought for him.
The point wasn’t to beat out the bunt for a hit – it was to see if Schilling was able to get off the mound to field his position and then be able to pitch again. Everyone was saying the ankle was being held together with glue and spit – have the guy move a few times to make sure. The momentum had shifted to the Redsox – try something to get it back instead of laying back and waiting.
If people had no problem bunting on Jim Abbott then bunting 3 or 4 or 5 times on schilling was a no brainer.
“Torre should have called their bluff and taken the 1 Year deal.
That’s all I have to say”
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no he shouldn’t have. Then Joe Girardi wouldn’t be manager. Doubt he would have waited out another year…
great thoughts, guys. biggest story of the year. I was bored with it during the Finals, but that’s over, so the changing landscape will be exciting.
I don’t think anyone should begrudge LeBron for leaving the Cavs. He made them a much better team than they would’ve been. Like 5 times better.
All the greats want to win. Nothing wrong with that.
As for the Jordan’s shadow thing? Dude wore his number for 7 years. He’s got no problem there.
I know he’d never do it because LA is Kobe’s town, but I’d love to see LeBron play for the Clippers. But, he’d never play at Staples where the Clipper locker room is supposedly not much better than a broom closet.
I wish this series was more about the Yankees vs. the Dodgers.
I was growning up during the years the Yanks played the Dodgers in the 77,78,and 81 WS. The history between these two teams goes way beyond Torre, the core four, or Arod.
And Yes McCarver is a great listen…
Schilling didn’t have a ligament transplant. The thing was sutured up. As much as I dislike Schilling for being a loudmouthed jerk, he gutted out a good game. If a Yankee pitcher did that, you’d want a bronze statue erected in his honor.
If I’m Lebron I’m going to Chicago or New York.
Chicago has the talent to win, New York has more media exposure which means more money.
vinny-b brings up a great point. Girardi probably had enough contacts (and common sense) to know that Torre’s tenure was about to end.
GreenBeret7 June 25th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Howdy to you too GB! Yeah, ARod knows that Torre could really have dissed him big time. There is no fued, just like there is no bunting story. Or Torre couldn’t handle a bullpen. LOL! The fact that the Yankees made it to the playoffs every year Torre managed is hard to believe. Especially when you consider who was pitching most of those years. Anybody’s BP would be shot with those starters after 2001.
Things are good here in Carolinas.
Joe Buck is the one that bugs me.
Vin Sculley is great!
I think if Lebron goes to a team that wins multiple championships he’ll get more money than in any other situation. Cleveland can pay him more now, New York he’ll get more endorsements and maybe that stock money. But if he goes to Chicago and wins championships he’ll get true F you money.
Since when are Rose and the skinny kid from Fla championship contenders?
Why not Lebron and Lee and next year get Carmelo.
Add Tony Parker with Gallinari and Chandler.
Not bad?
m June 25th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
I would think so!! LOL! Wasn’t he working for the Yes network?
Where ever he goes, I think it’s pretty safe to say it won’t be Cleveland.
For you Knick fans I understand your desire for Lebron to come to the Knicks. You have been long suffering.
I’m don’t see Lebron waiting 2 or 3 yrs. to allow them reload in order to win a championship.
My guess is he will go to a team that has enough talent so he is the final piece.
Just a laymans guess but I see Cleveland, Miami, or Chicago as the teams with the best chance.
“vinny-b brings up a great point. Girardi probably had enough contacts (and common sense) to know that Torre’s tenure was about to end”
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m: definitely. Girardi was in-waiting for that job.
then Pete Abe broke my heart, when he got up and firmly predicted Don Mattingly would be the next NYY manager.
m
The one thing about LeBron is he is very outspoken about him being the leader of the team, almost to the point he is uncoachable. He quit on the Cavs in game 4 of the playoffs, for a reason still not known. He needs a Riley/Jackson/Johnson type coach to win. He ran the team in Cleveland and if the Cavs had a stronger willed coach, LeBron would be staying in Cleveland, playing for another ring.
Whoa! Hold up there. Carmelo and Denver are in extension talks. He wants his max money, too.
I think NY is the only town big enough for LeBron (and his ego j/k). The GPS has been pointed in that direction for a long time.
Put him in place, and add pieces. He’s not going to find a turnkey operation anywhere anyway. It takes time to build championships. Also takes owners with deep pockets and gm’s with a lot of patience.
The only possible tactical mistake made in the series was in not running on Wakefield at every possibility. However, those opportunities were almost non-existant since that was in Gm# 5 and in 3 innings, the only runners to get on were Sheffield, who was erased on a forceout by Matsui and Posada. That was the 14 inning game. They happened to move up on a passed ball.
Since when are Rose and the skinny kid from Fla championship contenders?
—
You add Bosh and Lebron and Chicago is a championship team. Rose is one of the top 3 PG’s in the league. Noah is one of the best rebounders in the league.
If the Knicks add Bosh and Lebron they will contend for a championship but they won’t be nearly as good because they don’t have a guy nearly as good as Rose.
“Vin Sculley is great!”
————————————-
a larynx hand-carved by God himself.
GTLU
Jeter SS
Swish RF
Tex 1B
AFraud 3B
MVP 2B
Jorge C
Grandy CF
Gardy LF
C.C. SP & WP & he goes deep tonight….
“New York he’ll get more endorsements and maybe that stock money”
Don’t buy that he’ll make more in endorsements. In this day and age, a professional athlete no longer needs to be in NYC to make the big endorsement money. Lebron is world wide already. The stock thing? I don’t know.
Don’t buy that he’ll make more in endorsements. In this day and age, a professional athlete no longer needs to be in NYC to make the big endorsement money. Lebron is world wide already. The stock thing? I don’t know.
—
Fair point..
m June 25th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
One more thing! If Torre had 1 more year, Girardi would have waited. If Torre had missed the playoffs like Girardi did, then Torre would have walked. Girardi would have been the benefactor of a loaded 2009 team & he might have won in his 1st year as Yankee Manager too.
We will never know. Kind of like if the RSox had traded Ted Williams for Joe D. Wonder how that would have turned out. Funny thing is if that had happened, perhaps my favorite Yankee of all time Mickey Mantle might not have hurt his knee backing up Joe D. Mick’s numbers may have been even more awesome w/o that bumb knee almost all of his career.
Phil,
must be a sore topic for you. do most of the clevelanders think he’s as good as gone?
but you bring up a great point about needing a good coach that commands respect. coach k did a pretty good job with all those guys.
did lebron coach because that’s his nature or because brown was not a good/strong coach?
AFraud 3B
=========
Are we back to square 1?
I might have to take a Betsy hiatus…
“Since when are Rose and the skinny kid from Fla championship contenders?”
The Bulls have a better core than any of the other teams with enough cap space for two max contracts.
“Why not Lebron and Lee and next year get Carmelo.”
In all likelihood Carmelo is going to sign an extension with Denver. He proved in the past that he is unwilling to sacrifice financial security for the opportunity of free agency. With the possibility of the max contract being lowered with the next labor agreement, it is a virtual certainty that Carmelo will re-up with Denver. Even if he doesn’t this offseason, he would leave that extra money on the table to switch teams.
“Add Tony Parker with Gallinari and Chandler. Not bad?”
I look at it like Walsh has given the Knicks options, which is more than they’ve had in recent years. So even if they lose out on Lebron they have a few pieces and lots of flexibility in the future.
GB
What guys seem to want to ignore is that ARod killed them in that series….that game 5 would have been won if he could have hit a sac fly with Cairo at third but he struck out on 3 89mph fastballs over the heart of the plate from Arroyo and Francesca’s been stuck on Arroyo ever since….
And again in that Detroit series he was just as automatic an out as Sori was in ’03 and people not only wanted him dropped in the order but they wanted him benched….Billy Martin would probably have benched ARod had he been the manager in ’06…
Chicago is the one place where Lebron can become an instant championship contender and still rake in money from endorsement deals since Chicago is a big market. The Bulls also have a more iconic history than any of the other choices. Sponsors like that. The Bulls logo is familiar and trendy and carries heavy marketing weight due to Jordan’s reign and his status as the best player of all time. The Bulls have been desperately searching for a superstar since Jordan left. The city has been waiting for this moment for a long time. The first African American President is a Bulls fan. Lebron will blow up in Chicago. The NBA has been overreaching for a new legend and Chicago is Lebron’s best shot at legendary status given the supporting cast.
The Bulls will definitely add either Bosh or Boozer at power forward.
Lebron would play shooting guard. SHOOTING GUARD.
He’ll be in a back court with Derek Rose.
Noah and Deng are skilled role players.
3 stars.
2 talented role players.
A new coach.
A hungry city.
He’s a Bull.
The Knicks could, theoretically, sign James, Bosh/Boozer/Stoudemire then trade Curry’s expiring for another all star type talent with a contract a team wants to unload.
Heres a quick fact for all you torre lovers and haters.
Just like the last 7 years with the Yankees, Torre has done nothing in the playoffs the last 2 years with the Dodgers – You know, when its win or go home time. And he’s gotten all the help he’s needed with Manny coming over in a trade, trades for Casey Blake and Jim Thome (for half of last year)who aren’t superstars but very solid players, and pitching help during the trade deadline (sherrill, garland, wolf to name a few). Not to mention a lineup of young hitting studs (ethier, loney, kemp, martin) and table setters (furcal, hudson, belliard).
And what has he done with them – Nada, Zilch, Zippo. The only reason he still has a job is because of his success with the yankees.
GreenBeret7 June 25th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Howdy to you too GB! Yeah, ARod knows that Torre could really have dissed him big time. There is no fued, just like there is no bunting story. Or Torre couldn’t handle a bullpen. LOL! The fact that the Yankees made it to the playoffs every year Torre managed is hard to believe. Especially when you consider who was pitching most of those years. Anybody’s BP would be shot with those starters after 2001.
Things are good here in Carolinas
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That’s good to hear, Ray. Pretty decent around Savannah, too.
I wasn’t real happy with the original Girardi replacement, but, some of the crap with Torre that’s come out doesn’t make me think as much of him as I did.
However, after 2003, those were some ugly rotations. 2004 had Mussina and Vazquez. Had Vazquez stayed healthy all seaon, that series never got past 5 games. It’s hard to take a playoff team and then the next year, you have to patch together 3/5ths of the rotation, you have no business winning an AL East title. That was some outstanding work by somebody to pull that off. The only other part of that rotation was Leiber, who was a .500 pitcher.
I hate the Bulls so I hope Lebron doesn’t come to Chicago. And I’ve lived in the Chicagoland area all my life.
Let him go to NY.
Who do you root for GF?
Bret,
I think if the Bulls sign Lebron and Bosh they will trade Deng. They are actually already trying to trade him…
I agree with you though. I think Chicago is probably the best destination for Lebron although I’d put heavy consideration into New York because it’s such a great city.
And I do think the Nets will be fairly desirable to free agents. Lebron probably won’t sign with them but they aren’t a bad landing spot for FA’s. I think they have a better team in place than the Knicks, they have a ton of cap space, new owner, new coach, etc
I don’t know about Lebron playing 2nd fiddle to any point guard not named Nash.
The Knicks can trade for Okafor.
Okafor
Bosh
Gallanari
James
Douglas
Nothing wrong with that team.
champ809 June 25th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
LOL! Billy Martin would have pulled ARod out of the game & tried to fight him! Not sure anyone would have held Billy back off ARod like they did with Reggie! LOL!
ARod has proven his mettle! He has no one to prove anything for now!
How about Nash and Lebron in NY?
Throw in Stoudmire who loves Dantoni…hmmmmm
Lebron’s definitely not going to Miami. He’d be seen as jumping on Wade’s ship rather than being the lead dog. Can’t see him doing that.
I think the Knicks MSG stock angle is something to watch. Imagine if Lebron advised all his friends and family to invest in MSG and they all get wealthy off of it.
Again, I don’t know if there are any legalities banning him from advising his closest people that he’s going to the Knicks.
For all we know, his family and friends could already be heavily into MSG stock. They could have buying it up over the past 2 years.
If he signs, the stock skyrockets as the advertising dollars for his games will go through the roof, the building will sell out and they can raise prices, etc. He’ll be able to share in the profits through stock ownership.
You’re going to see if this is a business decision or a best situation decision.
If he comes to the Knicks, it’s a business decision.
# mick June 25th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
Who do you root for GF?
——–
I was a Lakers fan back when Magic was king, but I’m not really a basketball fan at all anymore.
IMO, basketball ranks right up there with soccer and eating liver with brussel sprouts.
chicken liver is good
Bret,
What does the President being a Bulls fan have to do with anything?
He’s a White Sox fan too, but that’s not going to persuade anyone to sign with that heinous franchise.
“I hate the Bulls so I hope Lebron doesn?t come to Chicago. And I?ve lived in the Chicagoland area all my life.”
The ironic thing is, if Lebron goes to Chicago it will be due in large part to the Cavaliers. By trading for Antawn Jamison, the Cavaliers gave the Wizards additional cap space, which they ultimately used to acquire Hinrich–giving the Bulls room for two max guys.
m
Mike Brown made some poor decisions towards the end of year concerning his rotations. When Shaq got hurt at the same time as they aquired Jamison, he never got them into any king of workable rotation. They didn’t play together enough. As much as I hate to see LeBron go and I think he will, he is simply chasing his own legend. The Cavs can offer him more money, he has an owner that will spend money and plays in a city that whorships him and has since he was a sophmore in highschool.
champ809 June 25th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
GB
What guys seem to want to ignore is that ARod killed them in that series….that game 5 would have been won if he could have hit a sac fly with Cairo at third but he struck out on 3 89mph fastballs over the heart of the plate from Arroyo and Francesca’s been stuck on Arroyo ever since….
And again in that Detroit series he was just as automatic an out as Sori was in ‘03 and people not only wanted him dropped in the order but they wanted him benched….Billy Martin would probably have benched ARod had he been the manager in ‘06…
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Perhaps you’d better go back and see who’s bat was most responsible for them getting through the Twins series and the first 4 games of the ALCS. Here’s a hint. It wasn’t Jeter. Tell me again how he was responsible. he was hitting .320 after that game with 2 homers and 5 RBI. After that, EVERY bat went in the tank. yeah…Rodriguez was solely responsible.
Let him rot in hell June 25th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
LOL! You are bad! Misinformed too. What have the Dodgers done before Torre since 2000? Not much at all!
Torre took a bunch of misfits & youngsters and won the division and had them in the playoffs both years he was there & has them close now for 2010 after an awful start & some close string of losses last couple of weeks. He is a very good Manager. Not a problem IMO! Joe Girardi is a very good one as well.
I don’t have to diss Torre to like what the Yankees have now! I am appreciative for what Torre did!
GreenBeret7 June 25th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
Very true GB!
Patrick,
I think Portland would jump at the chance to acquire Deng. They need a third scorer to go with Aldridge and Roy. If Oden can ever stay healthy, they have a strong team balanced with offense and defense.
As for the Nets, I’d like to see them trade for Chris Paul. They have more chips to acquire him than the Knicks and have a chance to steal market share from them. If Lebron goes to Chicago, the Nets getting Paul would be a huge kick in the teeth to the Knicks. Talk about kicking someone when they’re down…
tk
You are right on the Wizards cap space issue. Intresting how that worked out and that Jamison did nothing to help the Cavs. He did not make them any better.
Bret,
Man I’d love CP3 but I don’t think the Nets can get him. Before the draft they offered Harris and the #3 pick for Paul which the Hornets said no to. The Nets are not trading Lopez so I don’t see any route they can take to get Paul unless the Hornets change their minds about the original offer.
I think the Nets will go hard after Lebron and Wade. They’ll probably strike out with both then go after Rudy Gay and possibly one of Stoudemire/Boozer/Lee. Hopefully they stay far away from Joe Johnson
Phil,
Sometimes it’s tough to play in your hometown.
I was shocked to hear someone (on the radio) say that if LeBron goes the Cleveland economy would collapse.
I know that’s ridiculous assertion, but a LeBron departure would surely have ripple effects.
Most Yankee fans seem to remember Torre much the same way that Red Sox fans remember Buckner and it is sad. You see if Buckner caught that ball the game would have been tied, not won. Facts don’t get in the way of feelings! Here is what actually happened! Don’t get caught up in the Torre trashing like a RSox fan! Rise above it!
Boston was leading the heavily favored New York Mets three games to two in the 1986 World Series when game six of the series went into extra innings. For his part, Buckner was batting just .143 against Mets pitching, and was 0-for-five in game six. When the Red Sox scored two runs in the top of the tenth, Boston manager John McNamara chose to have Buckner take the field in the bottom of the inning instead of bringing Stapleton in as a defensive replacement for the ailing Buckner as he had in games one, two and five. New York came back to tie the game with three straight two out singles off Calvin Schiraldi and a wild pitch by Bob Stanley. Mookie Wilson fouled off several pitches before hitting a slow roller to Buckner at first base. Aware of Wilson’s speed, Buckner tried to rush the play. As a result, the ball rolled under his glove, through his legs and into right field, allowing Ray Knight to score the winning run.
In reality, it was merely a fielding error by Buckner in a game already tied after Boston relievers couldn’t hold a two-run, two-out lead in the 10th inning of what should have been the game that gave the Red Sox a World Series win. But considering the cursed history of the Red Sox ? no World Series championship since 1918; Game 7 losses in 1946, ’67 and ’75 ? there are many who remember the play as if the World Series trophy itself rolled through first baseman Bill Buckner’s legs. A rainout gave Boston another day to recover for Game 7, and despite holding and eventually squandering a three-run lead in that game, it was Buckner’s error that’s held responsible for losing the Series.
Boston led game seven of the World Series 3-0 heading into the bottom of the sixth inning when New York scored three runs off Bruce Hurst (who had been named World Series M.V.P. before the Mets’ improbable comeback in game six) to tie the game, and score three more off Schiraldi in the seventh to take a 6-3 lead. Buckner was two-for-four in the game, and scored one of two runs the Sox plated in the eighth. However, the comeback fell short, and the Mets won their second World Championship in franchise history.
Patrick,
The asking price on Paul is especially high because the Hornets are selling teams on the idea that Chris Paul gets them Lebron. As long as Lebron is unsigned, the Hornets will use him as leverage to extract a higher toll for Paul. As soon as Lebron signs somewhere, the price on Paul will come down.
The Nets have Harris, Favors (they can sign Lee in his place) and future first rounders.
If the Hornets don’t want Harris, a third team would have to get involved which complicates matters of course.
Bret,
Maybe. I just don’t see this trade happening. First because as I said earlier the Hornets are asking for too much. And I think they are asking for that much because they don’t have a huge desire to get rid of Paul.
I hope I’m wrong and the Nets get CP3 though, he’s one of my favorite players.
m
I don’t think LeBron had any problems playing in NE Ohio where he grew up. It’s surely not like playing in NYC, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Boston or Miami. It will hurt the city as far as 42 plus games a year being sold out with people spending money downtown before and after the games. I don’t think the economy will collapse, but its not in good shape there.
Phil,
The Cavs organization has shown a willingness to add salary and take on veterans in an effort to improve their team. However, I think the true price of those moves is the lack of talent and flexibility they now have. In hindsight those moves look bad, but I can see how they seemed right at the time. I recently read that even if Lebron leaves Cleveland won’t have room for a max contract. They’re just in a tough situation there. It’s amazing how his decision will have ripple effects across the NBA.
RayVT
Buckner was wearing high top shoes because of problems with either his ankles or feet.
The main reason he was playing at all was because of his bat.
The RS fans could never give him credit for gutting it out to play.
He should have been replaced late in the game.
MaineYankee June 25th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Yes, just like in games 1, 2 & 5!
Phil,
For LeBron, who’s played in the area all of his life, the decision to leave will be the tough choice.
tk is correct on the ripple effect.
This is almost like the hot stove season. LeBron is CC. LeBron’s sidekick/agent is Boras. The Knicks are the Yankees (?).
I didn’t realize there were plenty of good FA players beyond the big 3. Wonder if there will be any significant sign & trades, too.
th
Hind sight is 20/20, but the Cavs should have sent Hickson to the Suns for Stoudimire instead of getting Jamison. The concern was Shaq and how Stoudimire would fit. Guess the Cavs will never know because LeBron will be gone, Shaq will be gone and the Cavs didn’t win a chamionship. Dan Gilbert as an owner did everything he could do as far spending money and trying to put the pieces in place. Some just didn’t work.
RayVT June 25th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
MaineYankee June 25th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Yes, just like in games 1, 2 & 5!
——————————————————————————-
I can’t remember now the reason he wasn’t.
I watched that series with alot of angst.
My Father is a RS fan and I never would have heard the end of it.
RayVT June 25th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
MaineYankee June 25th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Yes, just like in games 1, 2 & 5!
——————————————————————————-
I can’t remember now the reason he wasn’t.
I watched that series with alot of angst.
My Father is a RS fan and I never would have heard the end of it.
m,
The Knicks aren’t the Yankees because there are other teams that can pay Lebron as much as the Knicks. Actually Cleveland can pay him more.
The Knicks are also not a perennial playoff contender without Lebron, unlike the Yankees without CC.
Chris Paul is being shopped?
Chris Paul = best player in the NBA (IMO)
well 2nd best to Kobe (who i hate)
I’d say Lebron is the best player in the NBA. #2 is Kobe IMO
Paul is probably the best PG though.
And, it’s not really determined if he’s being shopped. The Hornets are listening to offers though but publicly they all say that CP3 is going nowhere.
m
I think you’ll see some moves based on teams needing to clear salary because of the economy.
I don’t know how many teams there are but a number of them are hurting.
Chris Paul has said he wants to stay in NOLA. BUT he also added that he wants to win. Translation: Trade me now.
RayVT –
My point is Torre has been given every advantage possible the last 2 years (not counting 2010), I don’t have the numbers (trades) in front of me but he’s probably also been given the most help come trade deadline than any other manager. He’s also played in the worst division in baseball the last 2 years, not counting this year (ie getting to the playoffs out of the NL West was the easiet road to get there).
He was given the best hitter in baseball 2 years ago for basically nothing (and the dodgers didn’t even have to pay his salary the last 3 months of 2008). I mean what more does he need? Getting to the playoffs from the NL West given all he has should not be the goal if you’re Torre (or his apologists – and I’m not saying you are one of them). Make the WS at least. He had/has a bonafide closer, decent bullpen, great bench, above average starters and a well balanced lineup. Compare his dodgers to the phillies who had Cliff Lee as their only bonafide starter. The phillies made the WS with 862 year old Pedro Martinez as their #2 starter last year AND Brad Lidge as their closer. Where would Torre’s team finish with only 1 starter and no closer in the postseason?
I don’t dislike the guy, but lets not make him out to be this genius manager either. He was a guy that was a below average manager that lucked out in the late 90′s and 2000 and then his luck ran out and he reverted back to what he was from 2002 on – a below average manager.
Fox Sports will beat this series to death and so will ESPN on Sunday. Anytime the Yankees are involved, they amp it up anyway but they’ll go full throttle with this one.
By the time this Dodger series is over with, Yankee fans will breathe a sigh of relief.
“For LeBron, who?s played in the area all of his life, the decision to leave will be the tough choice.”
I think that’s the key here. If Lebron wasn’t from the area, can you imagine him even considering the Cavaliers? I certainly can’t. He has some great opportunities–whether it is forming a great young core in Chicago, reviving MSG, teaming up with Wade (lol), or staying in Cleveland where he would be worshipped even more than he already is.
“tk is correct on the ripple effect.”
I see you mentioned this earlier. It’s fascinating isn’t it?
Chris Paul has said he wants to stay in NOLA. BUT he also added that he wants to win. Translation: Trade me now.
—
Yeah you’re right. He basically said he wants out if the Hornets aren’t dedicated to winning. So basically he’s saying if htey don’t go sign some big FA’s he wants OUT
The Knicks are like 5% of Cablevision’s enterprise. I seriously doubt that the company’s stock price will skyrocket based on a Lebron signing.
And oh yeah, lots of corporations forbid employees to buy their stocks. They put the company on the forbidden list of stocks due to the whole insider trading thing. Employees get stock options that can only be cashed in on a date set by the corporation.
In other words, Lebron isn’t signing with the Knicks because he thinks he’s going to make a billion off of the company’s stocks.
I’d say Lebron is the best player in the NBA. #2 is Kobe IMO
Paul is probably the best PG though.
And, it’s not really determined if he’s being shopped. The Hornets are listening to offers though but publicly they all say that CP3 is going nowhere
___
You serious? Kobe is far and away better than Lebron. Lebron caves with the game on the line. Lebron doesnt make anyone around him better. Kobe is a winner. Lebron is all about lebron. This isnt even close!
Patrick
I think one of the factors the Hornets are shopping Paul is because of a need for salary relief.
I think they thought they were close to being a real contender when they signed Posey. The problem was the team wasn’t as good and the economy went south.
They tried to get rid of Chandler during the season in 09 but he didn’t pass a physical.
“And, it’s not really determined if he’s being shopped. The Hornets are listening to offers though but publicly they all say that CP3 is going nowhere”
————————————————-
ok, patrick. Thanks for the word
I think Cleveland had to win a championship this year or last to keep Lebron. They just didn’t put together a good enough team around him to win and now he’s going to peace out IMO
If Cleveland wins last year or this year Lebron would stay to try and build a dynasty like MJ and the Bulls in the 90′s.
Not to denigrate what Torre has done in LA.
But the last two seasons (not this one), the NL West was bad. The Rockies made some late miraculous runs to get in the postseason, but other than that someone had to win the division.
I hope the Knicks don’t sign Lebron anyway. I used to want them to sign him, but now, not so much.
Not sure I want them to sign Wade either. I would like the Knicks to get some people in the front office who know what they’re doing and build a team. Just tear the whole thing down and start from scratch now that they have some cap space.
Knicks fans have waited for 40 years for a championship. They can wait for another 5 years or however long it takes to build a perennial contender in MSG.
It is mystifying to me why people feel the need to disrespect Joe Torre. The man won four WS, came within a random eyelash of winning in 2001, could have won it all in 2004 if the ball had just gone a couple of inches the other way in Game 4, maybe he wins in 2007 if the midges don’t descend on Joba, exactly what do you want?
Some of you want perfection from the man – he’s not perfect and he didn’t have a positive outcome for every decision he had to make, so for some of you he’s a loser. Give me a break.
Maybe it was time for Joe to move on but for crying out loud on the whole he was great here.
Pat M and RayVT and Patrick have it right.
It is going to crazy starting July 1, when the LeBron sweepstakes begin. Sports has never seen anything like it. I’m suprised the city of NY hasn’t planned a parade down the canyon of heroes for him.
Talk about getting your ego fed. LeBron is going to see it all for those 7-10 days.
You serious? Kobe is far and away better than Lebron. Lebron caves with the game on the line. Lebron doesnt make anyone around him better. Kobe is a winner. Lebron is all about lebron. This isnt even close!
—
Well that’s your opinion and it’s a valid one. I disagree. I think Lebron is a more complete player than Kobe.
I think Lebron DOES make his teammates better. Put him on any team in the league and they are an instant playoff team. Yes even the Nets.
I’ll always hate Andrew Lang for pushing Ewing to the floor. The Knicks would have won it all that year. They finally had a good enough team to win it that year.
DAMN YOU ANDREW LANG
MaineYankee June 25th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
RayVT
Buckner was wearing high top shoes because of problems with either his ankles or feet.
The main reason he was playing at all was because of his bat.
The RS fans could never give him credit for gutting it out to play.
He should have been replaced late in the game.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Buckner broke his ankle in a slide that was as bad as Robin Ventura’s break. It was improperly set and he walked with a limp. There was a knot on his ankle joint the size of a golf ball. That he still ran with the speed he had until the last few years was amazing. The reason that MacNamara gave for leaving him in was that he wanted Buckner on the field to celebrate with the rest of the starters.
Thanks Wave, I agree. Joe made mistakes while he was with us and after he left but he was still a great Yankee manager and will be in the HoF as a Yankee.
Kobe doesn’t have the physical gifts and the talent that LeBron has.
But LeBron doesn’t have Kobe’s will and mental fortitude And I can’t imagine him being a harder worker than Kobe is.
So, they’re both great, just in different ways.
I’ve no problem hearing people say that LeBron is better than Kobe. But he’s not significantly better. They’re just two different players.
ray,
Knicks should go get Kevin Pritchard to replace Walsh.
Kobe doesn’t have Lebron’s court awareness. Lebron doesn’t have Kobe’s ability to score from anywhere on the court. Lebron can physical his way to the basket, but when he is on Kobe can drop it from anywhere on the court. I think Lebron needs to go to the rim more to be effective, where as Kobe could avoid charging the lane and still put up 20+.
This is the opinion of someone who has a passing interest in basketball, take it with salt.
GB
They all hit in that Twins series and the first 3 games of the RedSox series…Matsui was hitting like .600 until Pedro brushed him back with a 97mph heater….
The point is in game after game the key situations kept falling into ARod’s lap and he did nothing…time and time again…He was without a doubt the big bat on the team…
In other words the Sox won that series not because Bill Mueller carried them it was because Big Papi and to a lesser extent Manny…kept delivering time and time again in the clutch in key situations….
The Yanks didn’t that from ARod….in that game 7 Giambi I believe had the 2 HRs and Jeter led off the 9th with a double I think to try to get something going…what did Jeter bat in that series actually?
MSG, Inc. is separate from Cablevision. If you took two seconds to look that up before you had to come in here and dispute something you clearly know nothing about, you’d have realized it. It’s on the Nasdaq.
Do you need a link or could you check your facts before you spout?
Teams considered sellers at this point seem to be Baltimore, K.C., Cleveland, Seattle, Arizona, Houston, and Pittsburgh.
The buyers could be Minnesota, Detroit, Chicago White Sox, Atlanta, the Mets, Phillies, St. Louis, Cincinnati, and any team in the N.L. West except Arizona.
All is subject to change pending what happens in the standings in the next 5 weeks.
As always, Cashman never tips his hand. Tampa Bay won’t spend the money, and Boston will ride the wave until waiver deals after July and clearance of some payroll during the offseason. Theo Epstein has said this is a “bridge” year and they don’t have the farm system chips attractive enough to deal.
“ray,
Knicks should go get Kevin Pritchard to replace Walsh.”
Yeah, he did turn around the Blazers franchise, he would probably relish an opportunity to come to NY.
Patrick
LeBron does make any team an instant playoff team. Then again 16 of the teams make it anyway. Lebron is going to get better and he can’t be stopped going to the hoop. LeBron hurts his team when he runs the clock down while dribbling on the prerimiter. It would be really scary to see LeBron in an up tempo offense. No one could stop him with his size, speed and strength.
“I think Lebron is a more complete player than Kobe. I think Lebron DOES make his teammates better.”
I don’t root for any particular NBA team, so my only hope is that Lebron joins a good team and meets Kobe in the Finals a few times. I think these are the two best perimeter players since Jordan, and it would be great for the NBA if they faced off on the biggest stage.
Wave Your Hat June 25th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Thanks Wave! I agree! That is why I compared these anti-Torre people with the Buckner Red Sox fans! Neither one is looking at reality.
Name 1 Manager of any team that went to the playoffs 12 years in a row! BTW, how many ever won 4 WS titles? And before you go Buck Showalter on me, Torre’s 1st year team had a whole new starting Infield including Catcher except 3B (Boggs)! Torre even took flack for standing behind some rookie SS named Jeter when the idiots at the top wanted to trade Pettite & Mo for some unknown SS whne Tony Fernandez got hurt.
Back in his Dogger days, Buckner was an exceptional corner fielder and later became an decent first baseman. He would have been their center fielder except for Willie davis still playing there.
In indeed this is Torre’s last year as a manager, he’ll need to mend fences with the Yankees over his book in order to get any lobbying with writers to get him in the HOF.
GB7
“The reason that MacNamara gave for leaving him in was that he wanted Buckner on the field to celebrate with the rest of the starters.”
That was my guess but I wasn’t sure.
Victor the Predictor June 25th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
IMO, unless the Yankees trade for Lee the Tampa Rays will! The Ray’s owner stated last year if he could sign a special player for part of the year’s salary he would. Besides, Tampa has tons of talent to trade. Seatle, for the right prospects, might even take back part of the salary too. Plus, Tampa could offer arbitration & get prospects if Lee goes. I think he will go there!
I see we have a new dunce in the LoHud neighborhood, he goes by the name, let him rot in hell…….You go on & on about this and that , yet you just can’t remember names……Just what this place needs is another twit
The thing about Kobe is he improves an area of weakness every season. This past season he chose to focus on his post-up game, so he worked with Hakeem. LeBron doesn’t have such a game. But I’ve seen LeBron’s FT shooting improve, his outside shot improve, so he’ll probably follow the same developmental arc.
Now, I’ll give LeBron this. Put LeBron on these last 2 Laker teams, they win. Put Kobe on the last 2 Cavalier teams, they lose. Same results, but there’s no way that Kobe could get that Cavalier team over the hump.
“MSG, Inc. is separate from Cablevision. If you took two seconds to look that up before you had to come in here and dispute something you clearly know nothing about, you’d have realized it. It’s on the Nasdaq.
Do you need a link or could you check your facts before you spout?”
Actually I’d forgotten about MSG’s recent split from Cablevision.
However, my point still stands.
Employees are usually RESTRICTED from buying company stock due to the whole insider trading thing.
There’s no way Lebron is making a decision to come to NY based on buying MSG stock.
Hey Doreen,
GTLU ?
Jeter-ss
Swisher-rf
Tex-1b
Arod-3b
Cano-2b
Posada-c
Granderson-cf
Gardner-lf
CC-p
GreenBeret7 June 25th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Yeah I liked Buckner with the Cubs & Dodgers. Wes Parker was good too at 1B & OF. But Tommy & Willie Davis there wasn’t a lot of room.
By the way, according to this article Lebron wouldn’t be allowed by the NBA to buy stocks in MSG, not to mention SEC.
Whoops!
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....-1.1929237
Name 1 Manager of any team that went to the playoffs 12 years in a row!
____
Cox?
Let him rot in hell June 25th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
There is no such thing as lucked out. Joe Torre made decisions. Most of them worked out. Like when he traded for Girardi & moved Jeter from the minors to start at SS. He decided to move Mo to closer. I remember well how efficient he was with getting players ready to play by getting everyone time to keep them ready. Torre wasn’t afraid to have strong Coaches with loads of experience who most other Managers would have seen as a threat to their longevity.
I asked a simple question earlier, but no replies! How many Managers can you name that had 12 seasons of making the playoffs! Who comes close?
Jeter-ss
Granderson-cf
Tex-1b
Arod-3b
Cano-2b
Posada-c
Swisher-rf
Gardner-lf
CC-p
normally expect to see gardner and granderson at the bottom, but 3 lefties in a row? I was stunned when it was two in a row but i do not see joe putting grandy, gardy and cc in a row.
I tend to underrate Kobe because he plays for the Lakers and I hate the Lakers. He’s a great player – great shooter, awesome perimeter defender, can go to the hoop, etc. I just prefer Lebron. He drives the ball to the hoop like nobody I’ve ever seen, even Jordan. I think MJ was the superior player but Lebron is stronger than he was and he uses that strength when he goes to the rim.
Ray, Wes Parker was one of the best defensive first baseman that I ever saw. I’d rate him with Mattingly, Hernandez and Vic Power. When Parker finally started to become a good hitter, he retired because he was tired of the travel. he didn’t need the money because his father was a multi-millionaire and he was in business with the old man. he was part of the all switch hitting Dodger infield of the 60s. with Lafebvre, Wills and Gilliam. Can’t remember how many GGs Parker won…3 or 4 I think.
Tonights game is the game that the Yanks need to get. Kuroda and Kershaw are going to be very tough. At least Andy gets Kershaw so that might even tip in the Yanks advantage. Burnett vs. Kuroda will be tough. Kuroda seems to be much much more consistant than AJ. But again maybe it will be good AJ!
Pat M,
What names didn’t I remember? What because i said i don’t have the trades in front of me. I rattled off about 12 names in trades and people torre has been given at trade deadlines and that he has on the team. Do you need me to mention all 25 names on the team the last 3 years and every single trade the dodgers have made the last 2 and a half years. Good luck to you if you have that sort of time, but unfortunately I don’t.
And what have I gone on about (this and that as you put it) I had one point, used more than enough trades and names to back it up and made a final thought on it. I also didn’t call anyone names, offend anyone or threathened to email the Lohud police on them.
You must have been called dunce and twit more than a few times yourself to be confident enough to use them without having any idea what you are speaking about. Since you know….thats what dunces and twits do…
ac1 June 25th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Cox is 2nd! He had 11. LOL! Only 1 WS championship!
GB7 how would you rate Teixeira’s defense compared to other great first basemen?
When Torre took the Yankees Manager job the AL East was loaded. The O’s were very good, so was Toronto and Boston. So was Texas, Angels, & Seattle. Yet the Yanks won the 1st 4 WS titles under Torre. That wasn’t luck! It was skill!
ac1 June 25th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Cox is 2nd! He had 11. LOL! Only 1 WS championship!
___
Braves won division titles for a total of fourteen consecutive seasons. 1991-2005 (cannot fairly count 1994 as the season didnt atually end)
Of the 1st baseman that I’ve seen Teixeira is in the top 6 or 7. Over 50 years take in a lot of first basemen.
actually end. None the less, i agree that Torre did amazing things with this team. But as i said earlier, he was burned out, complacent and it was time to move on.
GB
I loved his glove too! I didn’t know the history behind his retiring! Thanks!
Vic Power was really good too!
Can you imagine if Mick had been in CF with Williams in LF & Joe D with the Red Sox and Mick didn’t get hurt backing up Joe D on a routine fly what his career could have been without a bum knee?
I asked a simple question earlier, but no replies! How many Managers can you name that had 12 seasons of making the playoffs! Who comes close?
************
How many managers had a $200 million payroll (or at the very least a top 3 payroll every year)with the ability to go get anyone they wanted at anytime without regard to their salaries for the 12 years Torre was manager.
And I would think the GM had as much say as who played SS and who was the closer as Torre did.
Answer me this, how many managers had to be giving Specific rules on how to use a pitcher and their innings limit and when they could pitch and when they couldn’t? You would think a veteran manager of 20+ years wouldn’t have to be told that – which is what they had to do with Torre.
Like I said a below average manager who was in the right place at the right time.
Joe Torre was a master of protecting the players from the media and ownership. He soothed the many years of disturbed times and unhappy times. I questioned his bench decisions at times, but he is what his record says he is–one of the winningest Yankee managers of all time. However, I would feel more warmth toward him were it not for the tell all locker room book.
Of the 1st baseman that I’ve seen Teixeira is in the top 6 or 7. Over 50 years take in a lot of first basemen.
—
That’s really impressive, thanks for your take on it
Interesting article on RAB. While CLiff Lee leads the league in getting batters into favorable pitchers counts, Phil Hughes is 2nd at 53.9% of the time.
The O’s were very good, so was Toronto and Boston. So was Texas, Angels, & Seattle. Yet the Yanks won the 1st 4 WS titles under Torre. That wasn’t luck! It was skill!
In 1995, Toronto and Baltimore were terrible.
Yeah Toronto was sub .500 and the angels has 70 wins in 1996.
In 97, Boston, Texas and Toronto were all sub .500. We know where Baltimore went after that..
I love Torre and anyone who thinks his status diminished because of the ending is being shortsighted.
However, if Joe loved the core 4 like he says he does he would have never let that book be published as is. He put Jeter and the rest of them on the spot. In a no win situation. Had a former player done that to Torre while still managing the Yanks it would have immediately disbarred him from Torre’s inner circle. Torre used to scorn writers who would drub up such controversy, and in the end he penned it himself (regardless of who wrote the book Torre had final say). How about the position he put his former player and assistant coach Joe Giradi in? In the end, the all might dollar and revenge won out for Joe. How does that make him much different than how he perceives A Rod?
Let him rot in hell June 25th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
I asked a simple question earlier, but no replies! How many Managers can you name that had 12 seasons of making the playoffs! Who comes close?
___
Yeah i answered. Bobby Cox had 14 in a row. (taking out 1994 strike season).
RayVT June 25th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
GB
I loved his glove too! I didn’t know the history behind his retiring! Thanks!
Vic Power was really good too!
Can you imagine if Mick had been in CF with Williams in LF & Joe D with the Red Sox and Mick didn’t get hurt backing up Joe D on a routine fly what his career could have been without a bum knee?
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Williams and Cobb both said that Mantle was the most physically gifted player that they had ever seen and that he should have hit .375-.400 every year because of the talent, but, especially, the speed. They agreed that the only thing that kept that from happening was Mantle’s stubborness to change his approach. They felt he could have hit more homers and hit that average if he had cut down his swing.
ac1 June 25th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
You are right, but 1994 he finished in 2nd place in his division. But he had all those years, but only 1 WS title shows just how difficult it is to win. (And the Braves had terrific pitching!)
“Employees are usually RESTRICTED from buying company stock due to the whole insider trading thing. ”
Uh…that is just 100% wrong.
On Torre’s departure – remember this phrase: Everything ends badly, or else it wouldn’t end.
GTLU:
Jeter
Swisher
Tex
Alex
Cano
Posada
Granderson
Gardner
CC
Matt June 25th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Get the facts straight. Torre donated the proceeds from the book to charity. I swear people haven’t even read the book, yet think their opinions are factual!
ac1 June 25th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
The O’s were very good, so was Toronto and Boston. So was Texas, Angels, & Seattle. Yet the Yanks won the 1st 4 WS titles under Torre. That wasn’t luck! It was skill!
In 1995, Toronto and Baltimore were terrible.
Yeah Toronto was sub .500 and the angels has 70 wins in 1996.
In 97, Boston, Texas and Toronto were all sub .500. We know where Baltimore went after that
*******************
AC1 thanks for the backup stats. The rangers made the playoffs in the late 90′s because they had AROD and they played in the AL West back then which was equivalent to the NL West the last few years – so they weren’t that good but someone had to make the playoffs from that division and they were the best of the worst.
Ray i agree Torre was amazing, just making a point…. I’ll never take away from what Torre did. But i’ve moved on to a guy that also coached us to 1 so far.
Jeter-SS
Swisher-RF
Tex-1B
ARod-3B
Cano-2B
Posada-C
Granderson-CF
Gardner-LF
C.C.-P
Boston has the Giants this weekend? They have some good pitching.
i’m sorry the rangers didn’t even have AROD in the late 90′s, further making my point that they weren’t very good and made the playoffs because somene had to.
AC1 thanks for the backup stats
__
bored late on a friday afternoon.
GreenBeret7 June 25th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
He would have done both if his wheels weren’t broken at the knee! He is a guy that with a bad leg could still bunt for a hit. Awesome power.
1956 exemplified his potential! (MVP age 24)
52 HR (1st)
130 RBI (1st)
132 Runs Scored (1st)
.353 BA (1st)
.705 Slugging Pct (1st)
1.169 OPS (1st)
210 OPS+ (1st)
376 Total Bases (1st)
10 out of 11 SB
112 Walks
Jeter SS
Granderson CF
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Cano 2B
Posada C
Swisher RF
Gardner LF
Sabathia P
ac1 June 25th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
I’m a Girardi supporter now too. Albeit it took last year around mid-year to win me over.
“Williams and Cobb both said that Mantle was the most physically gifted player that they had ever seen”
—————————————————
impressive. Being that Ty Cobb did not like power/HR hitters and that part of the game.
question for everyone: If you take away Babe Ruth’s ability to pitch, was Ty Cobb the best baseball player ever ?
I have to vote, yes
# RayVT June 25th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
GreenBeret7 June 25th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
He would have done both if his wheels weren’t broken at the knee! He is a guy that with a bad leg could still bunt for a hit. Awesome power.
1956 exemplified his potential! (MVP age 24)
52 HR (1st)
130 RBI (1st)
132 Runs Scored (1st)
.353 BA (1st)
.705 Slugging Pct (1st)
1.169 OPS (1st)
210 OPS+ (1st)
376 Total Bases (1st)
10 out of 11 SB
112 Walks
Triple crown award also. Led both leagues. BOTH leagues. Mantle was a beast.
GTLU
Jeter ss
Swish rf
Tex 1b
Alex 3b
Cano 2b
Posado c
Granderson cf
Gardner lf
CC p
Am excited for CC to get his hacks.
No one outside a few disgruntled Yankee fans care about Torre’s book
It was a NY Times best seller.
Very excited about the series this weekend.
zambrano and lee had to be separated in the dugout today.
they need to do something about zambrano. anger management or something.
Let him rot in hell……..The NY Yankees have always had the highest payrolls ( or close to it ) since the days of The Babe……During the 80′s they certainly ranked in the top spot or right there……The NY Rangers & Knicks have had their leagues highest payrolls, as does The Dallas Cowboys & The Washington Redskins….How many Championships have they garnished……..Your handle says it all, so it’s a fruitless attempt to even open your mind and eyes ever so remotely……..The money / payroll rap is a cop out……
More than a HOF manager, Torre was also a HOF person
That’s what makes him great. Never had a bad thing to say about anyone and was class all the way.
will CC hit a HR at Dodger Stadium? He had a grand slam at Dodger Stadium w/ the Brewer I believe
1996 AMERICAN LEAGUE (Torre’s 1st year with the Yankees!!!)
Eastern Division Home Away Div
NY Yankees 92-70 .568 —- 49-31 43-39 32-20
Baltimore 88-74 .543 4.0 43-38 45-36 29-23
Boston 85-77 .525 7.0 47-34 38-43 33-19
Toronto 74-88 .457 18.0 35-46 39-42 22-30
Detroit 53-109 .327 39.0 27-54 26-55 14-38
Excuse me! Boston & Baltimore were very good in 1996.
So was Texas & Seattle!
Western Division Home Away Div
Texas 90-72 .556 —- 50-31 40-41 18-21
Seattle 85-76 .528 4.5 43-38 42-38 23-16
And Cleveland!
Central Division Home Away Div
Cleveland 99-62 .615 —- 51-29 48-33 32-20
Chi White Sox 85-77 .525 14.5 44-37 41-40 24-28
# mick June 25th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
# Shame Spencer June 25th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
I remember salivating a little when Pinella was out there.. I wanted him to be our guy for a few years if for no other reason than for the entertainment value.
===========================================
Isn’t that an endorsement for Paullie as next Yankee Mgr?
———————–
Never saw this mick, sorry.. but to answer your question: ABSOLUTELY. (with Tino as the bench coach, Brosius as the 3B coach, and Bernie as the 1B coach)
Orioles had the highest payroll when we were winning the championships.
So Torre was not a product of the payroll as people are making him out to be. Girardi, on the other hand, is a beneficiary of Cashman’s massive payroll.
When did we ever spend $450 million to bring in 3 top tier FAs in the same year, during Torre’s tenure?
Torre won because he molded a bunch of role players, young players, and grizzled vets, into a championship team. He didn’t have HOF infielders, $161 million Sabathia, etc.
Compare the talent of Torre’s rosters to the 2009 Yankees. The 2009 Yankees personifies “a money could win with that team”.
is it just me or do the best record Yankees seem to be having less fun this year, feeling the pressure of defending their championship and pressing? The starting pitching has been phenomenal and has carried them and though I realize they are still right up thee in runs scored and team ba, it just seems they are pressing to go deep and not going the other way, etc.
1998 Eastern Division Home Away Div Leag Icf
1 NY Yankees 114-48 .704 —- 62-19 52-29 33-15 68-30 13-3
4 Boston 92-70 .568 22.0 51-30 41-40 25-23 58-40 9-7
Toronto 88-74 .543 26.0 51-30 37-44 27-21 52-46 9-7
Baltimore 79-83 .488 35.0 42-39 37-44 19-29 55-43 5-11
Central Division Home Away Div Leag Icf
2 Cleveland 89-73 .549 —- 46-35 43-38 29-19 50-48 10-6
Western Division Home Away Div Leag Icf
3 Texas 88-74 .543 —- 48-33 40-41 22-20 58-46 8-8
Best ever, minus Ruth? It’s a toss-up between Cobb’s steals and Rogers Hornsy’s power. Cobb had about 3,000 more at bats, but, Hornsby also hit .358 to Cobb’s .366.
I loved Girardi’s response to Mike’s questions about the laughing on the dugout
“it’s been taken care of” lol awesome
impressive. Being that Ty Cobb did not like power/HR hitters and that part of the game.
question for everyone: If you take away Babe Ruth’s ability to pitch, was Ty Cobb the best baseball player ever ?
I have to vote, yes
If you look at all the polls conducted up until about 1950. I mean press and player, the Sporting News ran several, they all named Cobb as baseball’s top alltime player. And the polls weren’t really close.
If you could put together your roster of Yankees, based on guys who you actually saw play – who would be on it?
Mine:
1b – Donnie (all due respect to Tino and Tex, I gotta go with my heart here)
)
2b – Cano (tough call between him and Pat Kelly
3b – Alex (I want to go with Nettles here but I wasn’t even 10 by the time he left the club)
SS – Jeter
C – Jorge (by a ring over Stanley)
CF – Bernie
LF – yikes – I may have to go with Rickey here
RF – Paulie
DH – Winfield
Bench: Stanley, Tex, Alex, Spike Owen
Rotation:
Andy, Gator, Key, Rags, and I guess I go with Coney
Pen:
CL – Rivera
SU – Goose
and fill out the pen with: Steve Farr, Wickman, Wetteland, Nelson, Stanton
I am already tired of this Torre shxt.
It’s just another series, let’s win it!
Woops – on my bench should be Pags, not Alex.
I don’t believe anyone can have a mlb career based on luck. Somewhere sometime and more often than not. Way more often than not skillls must shine through or there simply won’t be a career in mlb.
To say Torres career was luck is ludicrous. His timing may have been a bit of luck. His successes were’nt luck. no more than jg ws ring from last year was luck. You could say to that jg success last year may have had a lot to do with timing. But no not luck. Thsoe guys work hard to make their luck.
Yanks need to make up with Torre
They are the ones who insulted him with the pay cut after making the playoffs 14 straight years. He apparently seems willing to making up, as per his interview with Francessa.
Yanks need to do the right thing, reach out to him, and have Joe Torre Day sometime later this year, then retire his number and give him his monument after he retires.
Torre was extremely lucky.
Consider he happened to get Mo, Jeter, Andy. Posada… from our farm system from BEGINNING.
so, don’t talk about Yanks not being the highest payroll team to win under him. He’s just lucky.
that’s it. He already got his earned credits. So, let’s move on and beat his team.
JackCurryYES Asked Brian Cashman about .Joe Torre twice 2day. He went no comment. For usually helpful Cashman to do that shows there’s still enmity.
They are the ones who insulted him with the pay cut after making the playoffs 14 straight years. He apparently seems willing to making up, as per his interview with Francessa.
–
They offered him to be the highest paid manager in the league. Get over it with that paycut nonsense.
Does anybody know who is working the Yes booth this weekend vs the dodgers?
Kay is going out of his way to talk negatively about Torre right now.
C’mon Kay, are you unable to think of a topic to discuss on your show other than speaking badly about Torre?
Kay said that he never kissed Torre’s ass.
Big Deal Kay.
Pat yourself on the back why don’t you!!
# Warning Track Power June 25th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Does anybody know who is working the Yes booth this weekend vs the dodgers?
______________________________________________________________
Kay & Flaherty
Everyone should go out of their way to diss Torre. He is a slug.
“They offered him to be the highest paid manager in the league. Get over it with that paycut nonsense.”
So? Managers of his stature do not take paycuts. Nor should they be asked to, especially for a team with the resources of the Yankees.
What manager in any sport was asked to take a paycut after 14 straight playoff births?
His salary is irreverent in the grand scheme of things, so it doesn’t matter if he was the highest paid – the fact that they asked him to take a paycut was insulting.
Torre had the timing to get to NY with a young core 4 and found a means to make them great. I often wonder how much of what those 4 players are today could be joe torres fault. Yeah, some of it is. Almost has to be.
“Kay & Flaherty”
Makes sense. No need for YES to fly out O’Neil, Leiter, Singleton out there to only broadcast one game. The other 2 games are not on YES.
actually kay is making some good points about torre, but i get the impression they both just really hated each other.
So? Managers of his stature do not take paycuts. Nor should they be asked to, especially for a team with the resources of the Yankees.
What manager in any sport was asked to take a paycut after 14 straight playoff births?
His salary is irreverent in the grand scheme of things, so it doesn?t matter if he was the highest paid ? the fact that they asked him to take a paycut was insulting.
–
It wasn’t a pay cut. The total salary for the contract offered was higher than his 07 salary, but it included incentives for making it through the playoffs, which Torre disagreed with.
Despite the fact that he has had incentives in all of his contracts.
And if you think that salaries should be ever expanding with performance not being taken into account you’re a dunce.
When is a manager in any sport asked to take a paycut after success?
Phil Jackson this year. He won’t sign for 12 million if he comes back to the Lakers.
Phil Jackson has had more success than Torre.
It happens. Plus, he was still offered enough money to make him the highest manager in the game.
I’d save my tears. He’s fine and the Yankees are better after this divorce.
then of course he signed a contract with the dodgers for less than even the base offer the yankees gave him AAV.
Torre called out Kay in front of the whole clubhouse, saying he had an agenda and is a Showalter-schill.
Kay has every right to kill Torre.
Two and a half years later we’re still debating Torre’s departure form the Yankees? time to grow up and move on. Almost every player/manager’s departure is unpleasant because they and management rarely agree when it’s time to go.
Torre was not mistreated by the Yankees. He was offered a one year, $ FIVE MILLION contract with up to $ THREE MILLION in bonuses. We should all have to suffer such indignity.
I would have re-signed Tino and ignored Giambi. Jason is the better offensive player, but not $ 9 Million a year better and has we all saw he was like a bear on roller skates defensively.
Letting Reggie go was a huge mistake. Bernie was pretty much done except maybe as a RH hitting DH.
New Post: Andrew Brackman making his Double-A debut
Torre was not mistreated by the Yankees. He was offered a one year, $ FIVE MILLION contract with up to $ THREE MILLION in bonuses. We should all have to suffer such indignity.
–
Which also had an 8 million dollar option for 2009 that would kick in if he just went to the world series.
Chip June 25th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
LOL! I’m older!
C- Yogi
1B- Mattingly
2B- Cano
SS- Jeter
3B- ARod
LF- Rickey Henderson
CF-Mickey Mantle
RF-Roger Maris
DH-Reggie Jackson
Bench – Dimaggio, Rizutto, Munson, Elston Howard
SP – Ford, Stottlemyre, Guidry, Cone, CC
CL- Mo
Su – Goose
BP – Lyle, Howe, Ralph Terry, Pettite
Honorable Mention to Posada, Winfield, Nettles & Bernie Williams, Righetti
A few posts ago, it was pointed out that Joe Torre said he didn’t wish he was on the bench at all last year during the World Series.
That is exactly the reason why he was given an incentive laid contract and shown the door when he didn’t want it. I have no love lost for Torre. After the some of the stuff he wrote in his book, I even lost respect for him.
It is ironic that Torre and Kay’s falling out came over Kay gossiping about players in Torre’s clubhouse.