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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Gardner diagnosis: Right wrist contusion

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Jun 28, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees just sent out a short release saying that “Brett Gardner saw team physician Dr. Christopher Ahmad today and underwent X-rays on his right wrist, the results of which were negative. He was diagnosed with a right wrist contusion and is day-to-day.”

Gardner came out of last night’s game in L.A. early after being hit by a pitch.

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61 Responses to “Gardner diagnosis: Right wrist contusion”

  1. G. Love June 28th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Pat M.,

    I’ll give you that Torre from 2004 on had some of the worst starting pitching we’ve seen here since the very early 1990’s.

    Because of that, starters could not go deep into games and the pen was often called early into action.

    Still, his bullpen usage patterns remained the same. He relied on a handful of guys and shunned the rest.

    Was he an awful manager? No. He had his great moments and he had his terrible moments. Every manager has that.

    But watching Girardi the past few years I’ve grown to appreciate that he has a different approach and allows pitchers who fail him to get more chances (outside of Melancon).

    I even think back to 2008 when he showed enough trust in Farnsworth that Cash was able to flip him for Pudge.

    If you remember that season, Farnsworth actually wasn’t awful. I remember a series in Fenway when he walked into Boston and blew away Manny.

    Girardi showed faith in him and he rewarded him at times that season.

    Torre would have never done that. He just wouldn’t.

  2. Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Of course Torre abused guys like Quantrill, Gordon, etc…but would have minded if the Yankees won the World Series at the expense of Scott Proctor?

  3. Pat M. June 28th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    I left my final comment back on the last thread, catch everyone later…..SJ, Hope Tony is doing better…He must be bored to death….

  4. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    # MG June 28th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Joe Torre RUINED Tanyon Sturtze?
    Joe Torre RUINED Scott Proctor?

    You have to be kidding me.

    Sturtze was 33 when he came to the Yankees fresh from a 4-18 record two years earlier with the Rays (ERA was almost 6) and a 5.94 ERA the previous year with Toronto. He was a career borderline MLB pitcher who, like most relievers, has spells of excellence surrounding by longer spells of being awful.

    Proctor was somewhat better than Sturtze and may have thrown too many innings in 2006 but he was also an alcoholic, was Torre responsible for that as well?

    There have been hundreds, probably thousands of young pitchers whose careers were ruined by overwork early in their career. The list of managers extends through virtually every manager in the Hall of Fame, why not blame each of them for every pitcher who did not pitch effectively into their late 30’s?

    ———————–

    If they were so awful, why did Torre keep coming back to that well and overusing them? That sort of defeats the logic.

    These guys (Quantrill/Proctor/Sturtze/Gordon) were integral part of playoff bullpens. The argument to be made was that they could have been kept fresh for the stretch run, but instead Torre used them in situations where another less accomplished reliever could have been given a shot to prove his worth.

    Bullpen management has evolved tremendously over the last 30 years. Just because other managers in the past eras relied on one or two guys as their relief corps, doesn’t mean it’s right for Torre to stick to old fashioned, stubborn BP management in the modern era.

  5. Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Can we talk honestly for a minute?

    We’re here pontificating about the way Torre abused his relief pitchers and that’s why we (as Yankee fans) are angry.

    But the truth of the matter is that what we’re angry about is that Torre abused his relief pitchers and no championships came from it.

    If Torre’s Yankees had won the World Series in 2006 no one would have cared about him abusing Scott Proctor or Ron Villone.

  6. raymagnetic June 28th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Quantrill led the league in appearances for 3 years BEFORE he came to the Yankees.

    He was abused long before Torre’s right arm started calling for him. :)

  7. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    # Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Of course Torre abused guys like Quantrill, Gordon, etc…but would have minded if the Yankees won the World Series at the expense of Scott Proctor?

    ————————

    Why would that be necessary, when the WS can be won just fine with balanced use of relief pitching?

  8. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    # Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    If Torre’s Yankees had won the World Series in 2006 no one would have cared about him abusing Scott Proctor or Ron Villone.

    ———————–

    That’s the thing. A contributing factor to losing in the first round was a burnt out bullpen.

  9. Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    vblade June 28th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
    # Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    If Torre’s Yankees had won the World Series in 2006 no one would have cared about him abusing Scott Proctor or Ron Villone.

    ????????

    That?s the thing. A contributing factor to losing in the first round was a burnt out bullpen.
    —————–

    Yeah but a bigger factor was having crummy starting pitchers.

  10. Noreaster June 28th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Torre was never the same without Zim…his bullpen was gassed in 04 causing the come back by the Sox.

    Great guy, right guy for the job, but it was time to go when he left.

  11. Irreverent Discourse June 28th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    I don’t understand anyone giving Torre a pass on his bullpen management. He single-handedly destroyed proctors arm, and then got a chance to finish the job when he became manager of the Dodgers… finally ending his career.

    Torre was a great manager, but after about 2002 the world of baseball passed him on like he was standing still.

  12. m June 28th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Pat M,

    Good points about the pressure to win.

    But what was his excuse for using Broxton like he did this series? McCourt doesn’t have a win or bust mantra.

    Old habits and wanting to take this series got the better of his judgement last night.

  13. YankFanCA June 28th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    What surprised me some last night was the blatant whining and complaining from LA’s batters. All the bat throwing and jawing was rather juvenile. The calls against them weren’t even that questionable.

  14. THE TRUTH June 28th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    LEAVE VILLONE ALONE!

  15. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    # Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    vblade June 28th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
    # Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    If Torre’s Yankees had won the World Series in 2006 no one would have cared about him abusing Scott Proctor or Ron Villone.

    ????????

    That?s the thing. A contributing factor to losing in the first round was a burnt out bullpen.
    —————–

    Yeah but a bigger factor was having crummy starting pitchers.

    —————

    Joe G had 3 ~200 IP starters in 2009.

    Joe T had 3 ~200 IP starters in 2006.

    One of these managers had a fresh bullpen for the playoffs. One didn’t.

    I think that Joe T’s BP management was a major contributing factor to the 1st round meltdowns during the drought.

  16. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Pat M,

    Boredom has definitely set in. But, he met a nice girl from Panera Bread who is pureeing everything, and then some!

    Its not Tiger Woods at Perkins Pancake House but, it will keep him occupied for a month! lol

  17. EndlessMikeJr June 28th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Brett Gardner is out!!!

    Who cares?Just like Jeter being out it’s not a big deal.Jeter is already the slap ball hitter.More then one kinda sucks.

  18. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    ray,

    Quantrill had a career high in innings pitched as a reliever in his first year as a Yankee. That was his age 35 year. Maybe he was a workhorse before he came to the Yanks but Torre took that to an extreme. He was never the same after that…

    I’m not mad at Torre for abusing his pen, it’s a bit sad maybe for the guys he ruined but I’m not up at night over it. Just trying to set the record straight… honestly I thought it was widely accepted that this was just something Torre does – abuse his bullpen. I didn’t realize so many Yankee fans didn’t believe it.

  19. Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    vblade June 28th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
    # Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    vblade June 28th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
    # Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    If Torre’s Yankees had won the World Series in 2006 no one would have cared about him abusing Scott Proctor or Ron Villone.

    ????????

    That?s the thing. A contributing factor to losing in the first round was a burnt out bullpen.
    —————–

    Yeah but a bigger factor was having crummy starting pitchers.

    ?????

    Joe G had 3 ~200 IP starters in 2009.

    Joe T had 3 ~200 IP starters in 2006.

    One of these managers had a fresh bullpen for the playoffs. One didn?t.

    I think that Joe T?s BP management was a major contributing factor to the 1st round meltdowns during the drought.
    —————————–

    You’re comparing a rotation of CC, AJ, Andy, to CM Wang, an old Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina?

    I’m not denying Torre abused his relief pitchers but you need to go sit in the corner for that one.

  20. m June 28th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    YanksFanCA,

    Yes, that was surprising.

    You could say that it’s the losing streak they’ve been on. Torre complaining about the strike zone in game 1. Chirping from the players to the umps. And Martin was especially juvenile with the equipment abuse.

    Couple things are clear. Torre doesn’t run his club like he did the Yankees. The players are immature. Martin is not a leader like a catcher should be. Unprofessional behavior all around.

  21. MaineYankee June 28th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    YankFanCA June 28th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
    What surprised me some last night was the blatant whining and complaining from LA?s batters. All the bat throwing and jawing was rather juvenile. The calls against them weren?t even that questionable.

    ———————————————————————————————-

    That might have as much to do with an extended losing streak as it did the series against the Yankees.

  22. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    # Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    ray,

    Quantrill had a career high in innings pitched as a reliever in his first year as a Yankee. That was his age 35 year. Maybe he was a workhorse before he came to the Yanks but Torre took that to an extreme. He was never the same after that…

    I’m not mad at Torre for abusing his pen, it’s a bit sad maybe for the guys he ruined but I’m not up at night over it. Just trying to set the record straight… honestly I thought it was widely accepted that this was just something Torre does – abuse his bullpen. I didn’t realize so many Yankee fans didn’t believe it.

    ———————-

    Anyone who would defend his bullpen usage doesn’t have the first clue on how Torre is wired with regards to relief pitching.

    For example, in 2006, he used Proctor for 102 innings. Think about that, a middle relief pitcher logging 82 appearances (half a season). This means Torre used him pretty much EVERY OTHER DAY.

    That’s crazy.

  23. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    You’re comparing a rotation of CC, AJ, Andy, to CM Wang, an old Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina?

    I’m not denying Torre abused his relief pitchers but you need to go sit in the corner for that one.

    ——————-

    It was pretty comparable in terms if innings eaten up, was it not? I don’t see why its such an outlandish comparison. Wang, Johnson and Mussina logged a lot of innings that year.

  24. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    vblade,

    Yeah pretty much..

  25. YankFanCA June 28th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    m — well said. It all kind of points to a team just about to careen off the tracks. I don’t see this LA team making the playoffs and I don’t see Torre hanging around another year.

  26. CRAWDADDY (Boycott ESPN-NY) June 28th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    Joe West is coming to town.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....9FVt8LXPFP

  27. CRAWDADDY (Boycott ESPN-NY) June 28th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    I don’t see the Dodgers paying Torre the big money next season.

  28. RalphieD (OPPC) June 28th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    “EndlessMikeJr June 28th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
    Brett Gardner is out!!!

    Who cares?Just like Jeter being out it’s not a big deal.Jeter is already the slap ball hitter.More then one kinda sucks.”

    brilliant

  29. MaineYankee June 28th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    m

    One reason they gave for Torre being a good fit in LA was because they had some trouble in the club house between the vets and the young guys. His people skills were supposed to help bridge that gap.

  30. Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    vblade June 28th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
    Chip June 28th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    You’re comparing a rotation of CC, AJ, Andy, to CM Wang, an old Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina?

    I’m not denying Torre abused his relief pitchers but you need to go sit in the corner for that one.

    ??????-

    It was pretty comparable in terms if innings eaten up, was it not? I don?t see why its such an outlandish comparison. Wang, Johnson and Mussina logged a lot of innings that year.
    —————

    Kevin Millwood’s on pace to throw 200 innings this year. I wouldn’t compare him to CC Sabathia either.

  31. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    One reason they gave for Torre being a good fit in LA was because they had some trouble in the club house between the vets and the young guys. His people skills were supposed to help bridge that gap.

    This is true. I haven’t followed the Dodgers much since Torre was hired but there hasn’t been many (if any?) personality clashes in the clubhouse has there? Torre has done a pretty good job with LA I think..

  32. m June 28th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    YanksFanCA,

    I thought the Giants would be the one, but it’s looking like the Padres now. Not paying attention to the WC, but the Cards are 2nd in the central. So the Dodgers will have some tough competition.

    MaineYankee,

    It looked good for the first 2 seasons, but it could be that ownership problems could be grating on the whole club. And Torre’s not under contract. Does he want to manage next season or not? Who here would like to see Donnie take over? I don’t have any thoughts either way, but I’d hate to see a Yankee legend managing the Dodgers. Wouldn’t seem right. Would be stranger than Torre. Although, now that we’ve played (and beat) Torre’s Dodgers I see him more as a Dodger than a Yankee. lol.

  33. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Chip we were talking about the workload on Yankee bullpens from 2004 to present. That has to do with the amount of innings pitched, not the quality of innings pitched.

  34. mick June 28th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    # YankFanCA June 28th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    What surprised me some last night was the blatant whining and complaining from LA’s batters. All the bat throwing and jawing was rather juvenile. The calls against them weren’t even that questionable.
    =======================================================
    They learned that from their leaders, the Mgr and coach, the night before.

    Imagine that! As someone here said, arguing balls and strikes with Mo on the mound?

    How times have changed.

  35. CRAWDADDY (Boycott ESPN-NY) June 28th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Too funny, in a matter of a few years, Torre will always be associated as a HOF Yankee manager, end of story.

  36. stuckey June 28th, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    Repost

    “In fact, one could argue his bullpen abuse is one of the reasons why he couldn’t get his teams out of the first round of the playoffs toward the end of his reign.”

    No, not really you can’t.

    2005 against the Angel is debatable at best.

    Al Leiter gave up 1 earned in the 8th of a 5-3 loss in what was at the time a 4-2 game in the 8th.

    Small (the loss) and Leiter gave up 2 earned a piece, and Gordon 1 in a game that Randy Johnson spit the bit and in just 3inn and gave up 5 earned in an 11-7 loss (game 3)

    Mussina gave up the only earned runs in the Game 5 loss.

    Wasn’t a reason AT ALL in the 2006 Tigers series.

    Vizcaino gave up 1 run in the 2-1 loss to the Indians in the 11th inning (the midge game) in 2007.

    Other than that, bullpen wasn’t a factor.

    Of the 9 ALDS losses in 2005-06, starters got 7 and bullpen got 2.

    Wang (3)
    ?Mussina (2)?
    Johnson?
    Wright
    ?Vizcaino?
    Small.

    Interestingly, Scott Proctor, post-boy for regular season abuse, gave up 1 earned in 6 innings in ‘05-06.

    Torre’s bullpen management is certainly debatable, but if the perception exists it was a factor his last three postseasons, that should be erased.

  37. Rishi June 28th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    In case it hasn’t been posted yet – very cool recap of that 6th run scoring:

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....e_yan.html

  38. m June 28th, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    Only meant that when I look at Torre now, I literally see Dodger Blue.

  39. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Stuckey,

    He used guys so much in the regular season, they had nothing left in the post-season.

    In 2007, he used Vizcaino 13 times in the second half of the year when he had leads of four or more runs. That killed him for the post-season.

    Tom Gordon was on fumes in 2004.

    He blew up Proctor and Quantrill.

    Going into his last three post-seasons, he had guys on fumes coming out of the pen.

    Its not just about how they did in the post-season. Its about the condition those guys were in coming into the post-season.

    His usage patterns for relief pitchers in the last four years in NY was off the charts. It contributed to their first round losses.

    He’s lucky Mariano was so durable. That was his saving grace all his years in NY.

  40. mick June 28th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    # Rishi June 28th, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    In case it hasn’t been posted yet…very cool play by play of that 6th run:

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde…..e_yan.html
    ===================================
    Nice!
    I would have come right home with that ball, forget 1st, greedy!

  41. mick June 28th, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    His usage patterns for relief pitchers in the last four years in NY was off the charts. It contributed to their first round losses.
    ===========================
    In all fairness, who else did he have to go to?

  42. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Where you go is, you moderate guys innings. You don’t burn out 3-4 guys.

    Joe Girardi had Kyle Farnsworth too and made use of him.

    Its not just about riding 3 guys no matter what. Its about developing other options.

    Not for anything but, the guy was the highest paid manager in the game. One would think he could find ways to get more out of more guys in the pen.

    If he can only win when he has ALL of the horses, than you don’t need the highest paid manager in the game.

    Its not like he was short on talent. He was short on patience with relief pitchers. That was his downfall.

  43. m June 28th, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Thanks for that, Rishi.

    Reads like a script with a Hollywood Big Apple ending. :)

    I did have a little bit of dread that even if we tie this game that someone (with red hair) would lose it in the bottom of the 9th or beyond (because that did happen last season).

    But Cano took all the drama out of it. :)

  44. mick June 28th, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    SJ
    Point well taken.
    He always did seem like a push-button type of mgr., biggest decision was who to play in LF, and he was usually right.
    Things got dicey in 2001, maybe his luck ran out.
    Great success/failure story.

  45. stuckey June 28th, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    “Its not just about how they did in the post-season. Its about the condition those guys were in coming into the post-season.”

    I’d argue it IS how the did in the post-season, because if they did well, the point becomes moot.

    Vizcaino pitched exactly .2 innings for the Yankees in the postseason, and give up an earned run, on the road, in extra innings.

    I’m not ready to accept the argument he would have been perfect if not for his “condition”.

    Proctor gave up 1 earned over 6 innings over 2 years (the year he gave up the run, he pitched 4 innings).

    “Going into his last three post-seasons, he had guys on fumes coming out of the pen.”

    That’s certainly arguable, but his last 3 years (the specific point I’m responding to) the bullpen performed quite well.

    Leiter is the guy who gave up the most runs outta the pen those three years.

    The starters WERE the problem his last 3 years.

    The offense didn’t help much, nor did the defense, and insects in Cleveland.

    “His usage patterns for relief pitchers in the last four years in NY was off the charts. It contributed to their first round losses.”

    They didn’t lose in the first round in 2004 and NO, it did NOT contribute to the 2005-2007 first round losses, again, unless you want to make the assertion that the reason the Yankees lost the 2-1 in Cleveland was because Vizcaino was on fumes and didn’t manage to extend a game the Yankees only managed to score 1 run in to the 12th inning.

    The argument you are making just doesn’t hold up to factual scrutiny.

    That doesn’t mean your point about his regular season usage isn’t valid, you’re simply supporting your case by citing something that never actually happened.

  46. mick June 28th, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    It seemed that after 9/11, he lost a lot of his hunger for the game.
    I guess it’s possible being the type of guy he appears to be.
    The conflicts lie in the way it ended.

  47. Louis June 28th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Does anyone know the 10 teams that AJ Burnett chose this season for his no-trade clause?

  48. Irreverent Discourse June 28th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    chip – you can’t ignore the fact that guys pitched innings just because you don’t like the names behind the innings. it doesn’t matter what starter throws 200 innings, as long as they are thrown. those are innings the bullpen does not have to deal with.

    seems you are being as rational as ever.

  49. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    Vizcaino couldn’t pitch in the 2007 post-season because Torre blew him out in the regular season. That’s a fact.

    How in the world do you justify using a guy 13 times in the second half of the year when he had leads of 4 or more runs? That’s what he did with Vizcaino and it DIRECTLY affected his teams chances in that post-season because he was down a valuable arm.

    How is it even logical to burn an arm out in that way?

    He overused Gordon and that also limited his effectiveness in the post-season.

    He never spread out the work. By not doing so, he went into post-seasons with his key bullpen guys on fumes. That impacted series. Especially in 2007 when Viz had nothing left.

  50. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    # Irreverent Discourse June 28th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    chip – you can’t ignore the fact that guys pitched innings just because you don’t like the names behind the innings. it doesn’t matter what starter throws 200 innings, as long as they are thrown. those are innings the bullpen does not have to deal with.

    seems you are being as rational as ever.

    ————–

    Beat me to it. The quality of innings has no correlation whatsoever to the effect it has on the overall bullpen workload, other than inherited runners. 600 IP by 3 starters is a quantity that is comparable across two seasons (e.g. 2006 and 2009). Don’t really see what Chip is getting at when he inserted quality of starter into the conversation.

  51. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    stuckey,

    Maybe Vizcaino pitches more if his arm isn’t shredded. By that time in the season he was finished because Torre abused the heck out of him

  52. m June 28th, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    “I get the Melky vibe hearing those numbers; Frankie’s a great guy to have around when he’s making six figures, but once you tack on that seventh one, suddenly the appeal isn’t so great.”

    RAB talking about Super 2′s. That quote’s about Cervelli, but will probably apply to Gardner later, too.

    Gardner just misses Super 2 status by 2 weeks. Could cost him $3M.

    Interesting stuff.

    http://riveravenueblues.com/

  53. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    If there was such a thing as baseball prison, Torre would be in it after the systematic 2006 destruction of Scott Proctor’s arm.

  54. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    SJ44,

    Funny how Torre did the same exact thing last night – used his best reliever when his team was ahead by 4 runs. Same type of abuse he piled on Vizcaino in 2007.

    It’s impossible for us to come up with names that Torre could have used instead because nobody else was given a chance.

    Lets say Girardi had never put his faith in Edwar Ramirez and Jose Veras, they’d just be two more guys nobody had heard of. But he gave them innings and confidence and they performed well in 08. Last year, Girardi put his faith in guys like Phil Coke, Alfredo Aceves and David Robertson. Do we even see those guys if Torre is manager?

  55. austinmac June 28th, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Joe Torre is long gone. He had successes and failures. I don’t know why he is still some a hot button issue. I, for one, am glad we now have Girardi. It sure appears to me our bullpen was strong at the end of last year. That has a lot to do with its handling.

  56. My 2 cents June 28th, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    How in the world do you justify using a guy 13 times in the second half of the year when he had leads of 4 or more runs?

    *****************************

    Torre has used his CLOSER twice in the last 2 days with leads of 4 or more runs (and had him pitch 50 pitches in the 2nd game) and its still not the 2nd half of the season yet.

    Just a bad bad manager that lucked out with being hired during a perfect storm of players when he was hired by the yankees.

  57. rover June 28th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    whats the over/under on the total innings the 5 current starters should provide for the year. Assuming no real lt injuries.

    CC. 200+
    Aj if he figures it out. 200 give or take
    Petitte 190 + if he stays healthy
    170+ for uuusie
    Javy 180 +
    Those numbers make for a fresh bp in october.

  58. THE TRUTH June 28th, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    I also think if Vizciano wasn’t running on fumes in 2007 then we could have held the Indians in Game 1….

    I guess that is highly speculative but as others have said he was done by the time the playoffs arrived.

  59. THE TRUTH June 28th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Paul Quantrill, Tom Gordon, Tanyon Sturtze, Scott Proctor, Ron Villone, Luis Vizciano

    Is there anybody else I am forgetting?

  60. stuckey June 28th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    “Vizcaino couldn’t pitch in the 2007 post-season because Torre blew him out in the regular season. That’s a fact.”

    And the fact is, the one inning he did pitch was the ONLY game in that series affected by the Yankees bullpen.

    Chamberlain gave up the run. Vizcaino gave up the other.

    Wang got bombed in game 1, and Rogers shut them out the other loss and Wang and Mussina gave up the 6 runs.

    You simply can not argue the bullpen was a factor in the series loss. Vizcaino pitched 3 perfect in the midge game, there is still no guarantee they win the game, and even if you want to attempt to do so, the series is still only 1-1.

    “How in the world do you justify using a guy 13 times in the second half of the year when he had leads of 4 or more runs? ”

    I’m not, and you’re smart enough to well know I’m not,

    “That’s what he did with Vizcaino and it DIRECTLY affected his teams chances in that post-season because he was down a valuable arm.”

    The bullpen was a NON-factor in Game 1 and 4. The starters faltered (and LOST)

    Vizcaino gave up 1 RUN in a extra inning game on the road.

    You’re grasping at straws at this stage.

    “How is it even logical to burn an arm out in that way?”

    It isn’t. I’m not arguing otherwise.

    “He overused Gordon and that also limited his effectiveness in the post-season.”

    Again, I’m not arguing what happened before 2005-2007. Though I WILL say this. As bad as Gordon was in the postseason under Torre, he was WORSE his first two career postseason (9.00 ERA), and came into those season WITH that reputation.

    Any seasoned Yankee fan well remembers the questions surrounding Gordon and the postseason when he was acquired and going into his first Yankees postseason.

    I’m surprised you’ve either forgotten or have dismissed that as a non-factor.

    “Especially in 2007 when Viz had nothing left.”

    I’m sorry, you simply cannot argue with absolute zealotry that the reason a ML pitcher gave up 1 RUN on the road in extras to a play-off team was because of ANY one factor.

    And whatever argument you want to advance about the state of the bullpen over going into that series, the bullpen factored into 1 loss, 2-1 extra inning road loss.

    THOSE are the facts.

  61. NumberOnePositivePosterInTheUniverse June 28th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    stuckey, I’m with you. You throw down some logic and people refuse to accept it, what can you do?

    Especially with a statement like this:
    Vizcaino couldn’t pitch in the 2007 post-season because Torre blew him out in the regular season. That’s a fact.

    You prove he did in fact pitch, but this person says he didn’t pitch and that’s somehow a fact. Seriously, what can you do if you tell someone the sky is actually blue and they refuse to believe it? I say, just give up.

    For some people it’s so much easier to blame Torre for every loss, discredit him for the winning, and when you subtract all the winning and add up all the losing, then you have the world’s worse manager ever.

    He basically stole money from the Yankees because he never won anything, all he did was lose, and blow out every arm in the bullpen. Oh yeah, the rings were because of Zim.

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