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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Marcus Thames running in Scranton

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 28, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Just landed in New York a little while ago and heard from a couple of friends back in Scranton.

This afternoon, Marcus Thames ran the bases at PNC Field. He went from home to first and home to second while several members of the Triple-A staff watched. I heard the word “sprints,” which suggests to me that he was able to run pretty hard.

Also, Donnie Collins points out that Dustin Moseley has an out in his contract that kicks in on July 1. Moseley has been pitching well and has some major league experience. With Sergio Mitre and Alfredo Aceves on the disabled list, Donnie makes a good point that Moseley could be an alternative to Chad Gaudin or Chan Ho Park as a multi-inning reliever.

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186 Responses to “Marcus Thames running in Scranton”

  1. JoeyA June 28th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Do we have any updates re: Aceves or Mitre? I feel
    like they are forgotten pieces to this Yankee team, especially Ace. Any news?

  2. m June 28th, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    Good news on Thames.

    As for mosely, you can bring him up, but the only one that can really go down is Logan (or Joba, haha).

    _______________________________________

    Repost:

    “I get the Melky vibe hearing those numbers; Frankie’s a great guy to have around when he’s making six figures, but once you tack on that seventh one, suddenly the appeal isn’t so great.”

    RAB talking about Super 2’s. That quote’s about Cervelli, but will probably apply to Gardner later, too.

    Gardner just misses Super 2 status by 2 weeks. Could cost him $3M.

    Interesting stuff.

    http://riveravenueblues.com/

  3. Joba Tips his Cap June 28th, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    “but the only one that can really go down is Logan (or Joba, haha).”

    :)

  4. JohnC June 28th, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    With Lee going tommorrow, good idea to hold Gardner out anyway.

  5. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    From the other thread….

    Patrick,

    Last night was funny to me. The day before, he used Broxton in the 9th inning in a 9-4 game.

    I remember saying to myself, “that could hurt him tomorrow because he doesn’t need Broxton to finish this game”. Broxton needed 19 pitches to get through that inning.

    Last night, I thought they could get to Broxton if they could work some counts.

    As the inning played out, all I could think about were the times Torre overused guys in NY when he didn’t need to and how much it hurt him the next day. Could history be repeating itself?

    The difference was, he always had Mariano to cover for him. There is no Mariano in LA.

    As Broxton gets to 25 pitches, I’m thinking, “He’s got to play the Giants tomorrow. Take the guy out of the game”.

    Nope. He wanted to beat the Yankees so badly last night, he left that kid in there for 48 pitches.

    67 pitches from your closer in two games for two, meaningless inter-league games.

    Now, they have an important series with their REAL rival, the Giants, and he doesn’t have his closer for at least a day, maybe two.

    No amount of rings won, especially since the last one was won 10 years ago, justifies that kind of bullpen mismanagement.

    Thankfully he did it because it played a big reason why the Yankees won the game.

  6. rover June 28th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    Repost.

    whats the over/under on the total innings the 5 current starters should provide for the year. Assuming no real lt injuries.

    CC. 200+
    Aj if he figures it out. 200 give or take
    Petitte 190 + if he stays healthy
    170+ for uuusie
    Javy 180 +
    Those numbers make for a fresh bp in october.

  7. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    SJ44,

    Very true…

    I should feel bad for Broxton but I don’t because his misuse resulted in a Yankee win :)

  8. LGY June 28th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    “It’s impossible for us to come up with names that Torre could have used instead because nobody else was given a chance.”

    ————————–

    This is exactly the point when people cite lack of talent in Torre’s bullpens.

    Who knows what he had out there?

    If you look at the top middle relievers at the end of every season a lot of these guys come out of nowhere and then disappear a year or 2 later.

    Bullpens are so unpredictable and volatile that names on a piece of paper are almost meaningless.

    Coming into this season we all thought we had a dominant shut down bullpen. Joba, Robertson coming off his great 2009, Park dominating out of the BP in 2009, Marte shutting down lefties, and of course Mo at the back end.

    That is a ton of “talent” but it really has not worked out so well.

    Torre never cared to find out what he had. He never attempted to get the best out of a guy. He never attempted to build the confidence up in a ‘mediocre’ reliever.

    The most important thing is that Torre NEVER adapted and as we saw last night still hasn’t.

    He tried to use the same formula from the dynasty years in the mid 2000s with a completely different teams.

  9. Warning Track Power June 28th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    listening to Kay. i have been for 2 hrs because i want to hear what he has to say about the dodgers series.
    before the latest break, Kay said he is going to discuss the handshake(probably ARod-Torre) that Kay himself did not receive from Torre.

    go cry a river.
    last week you blasted Torre. now you want him to shake your hand! get real Kay

  10. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    Hopefully Broxton doesn’t blow out that arm of his under Torre, he’s a real talent. Would be unfortunate to see him go the Proctor/Quantrill/Gordon/Sturtze route.

  11. Warning Track Power June 28th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Kay admits he is a child, LOL!!
    Kay just said he did not want Alex to shake hands with Torre this weekend in L.A.

    Wow!!!
    Kay is showing how unprofessional he is right now.

  12. Jim June 28th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    If you look at the top middle relievers at the end of every season a lot of these guys come out of nowhere and then disappear a year or 2 later.

    —————–

    because middle relievers get abused. See Alfredo Aceves last year.

  13. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    SJ44 can tell you more about this than I can but Michael Kay has always had a problem with Joe Torre. From what I can remember, when Kay did the postgame interviews he asked Torre a stupid question about some kind of clubhouse rumor and Torre ripped him a new one. Totally embarrassed Kay in front of his peers, etc. Since then Michael Kay has held a vendetta against Joe.

    Kay is completely unprofessional and a child, there’s no doubt about it.

  14. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    LGY June 28th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    Torre never cared to find out what he had. He never attempted to get the best out of a guy. He never attempted to build the confidence up in a ‘mediocre’ reliever.

    The most important thing is that Torre NEVER adapted and as we saw last night still hasn’t.

    He tried to use the same formula from the dynasty years in the mid 2000s with a completely different teams.

    —————–

    Hammer, meet nail. Well said, and sums up Torre’s BP management issues. He still thinks he can manage like it’s 1999 and he has Stanton, Nelson, Mendoza and Rivera in the bullpen.

    Managers usually call on more than six, seven even eight different relievers in high leverage innings each season. Girardi in 2009 used nine to ten guys in rotation in the bullpen.

    Torre always used 3 or 4, and if you failed once, that usually meant the doghouse for a month. That’s a pretty unimaginative way of running a bullpen.

  15. Warning Track Power June 28th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    Patrick-
    Kay right now is almost speechless due to the fact that ARod shooks hands with Torre.
    I can see Kay crying in the corner while in L.A. after he was told/witnessed that those
    two shook hands.
    Despite the non-friendship Kay and Torre currently have, the fact that Kay cares so much about this topic is ridiculous.
    The kid is acting like a jealous boyfriend.

  16. THE TRUTH June 28th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    I also think if Vizciano wasn’t running on fumes in 2007 then we could have held the Indians in Game 1….

    I guess that is highly speculative but as others have said he was done by the time the playoffs arrived.

    Paul Quantrill, Tom Gordon, Tanyon Sturtze, Scott Proctor, Ron Villone, Luis Vizciano

    Is there anybody else I am forgetting?

  17. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    2006 was the poster season for Torre’s bullpen horror show. Proctor 102, Villone 80, Farnsworth 66. All other middle relievers were at 30 IP or less (excluding Rivera).

  18. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    # THE TRUTH June 28th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    I also think if Vizciano wasn’t running on fumes in 2007 then we could have held the Indians in Game 1….

    I guess that is highly speculative but as others have said he was done by the time the playoffs arrived.

    Paul Quantrill, Tom Gordon, Tanyon Sturtze, Scott Proctor, Ron Villone, Luis Vizciano

    Is there anybody else I am forgetting?

    ———————

    Jason Grimsley. No one remembers poor Jason Grimsley. lol

  19. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    Warning Track Power,

    That is truly embarrassing. Michael Kay is a child…

  20. LGY June 28th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    Some Yankee fans in a way to excuse Torre have also seemed to label these mid 2000 team’s as bad teams or teams that shouldn’t have made the playoffs.

    Torre still was handed great teams towards the end of his tenure.

    They weren’t dynasty year quality, but how many teams in history were as good as the late 90s early 2000s Yankees?

    That seems to the be the problem. Yankee fans kept holding those mid 2000 teams to a standard of the dynasty years. Just like they hold this 2010 team to a standard of the 2009 team.

    Just because they were constructed differently or not as good, does not mean they weren’t great teams.

    This isn’t perfect but look at the run differentials:

    2009 (Just as a point of comparison)

    RS: 915 RA: 752 +162 differential

    2007

    968, 777, +191

    2006

    930, 767, +163

    2005

    886, 786, +100

  21. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Kay and Buck Showalter are very, very close friends. Joe Torre knew this.

    In Joe’s first year in NY, Kay said something (I don’t even remember what it was) that got back to Joe about a player on the team.

    Joe, in front of the entire team, ripped Kay. Called him “Rona Barrett” (A famous gossip columnist from the 1970′s) and told him to stop putting locker room talk out in public.

    Ironic, considering what Joe did in his book years later but, I digress.

    I think Joe did it because he wanted to let everybody on the team know he had their back. Not a bad move considering Buck was VERY popular among the players.

    Kay took it personally and they have been cold to one another ever since.

  22. Warning Track Power June 28th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Kay said what led to the shaking hands between ARod and Torre was started by Bowa.
    How nice!

    Bowa got to ARod, ARod then discussed the situation with the Yankees PR guy and then the 2 shook hands, exchanged some banter and went about their day.

  23. THE TRUTH June 28th, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Props to A-rod for handling the situation he did, btw.

  24. THE TRUTH June 28th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Re-post due to undecipherable grammar:

    Props to A-rod for handling the situation the way he did, btw.

  25. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Thanks for the detail SJ44.

    Kay just comes off really poorly here. He’s been ripping Joe Torre since early last week on his radio program but never tells the story you just told. For those of us that know why he hates Joe, it’s pretty embarrassing when Kay goes off like this. So unprofessional…

  26. Warning Track Power June 28th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    The Truth-
    I can not agree more. I don’t care if ARod sought out Torre on Friday or the off-day on Thurs or at any point during the weekend.

    These are grown men.
    These are pro athletes.

    If ARod wants to shake his hand in front of the media/public, then so be it.

    Kay cares so much about this subject, he has earned the tag, “Rona Barrett”.

  27. On the internet I'm really cool. June 28th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    90% of the comments here sound like the commenter is a lover scorned. “Joe Torre left me for someone not as good as me so I’m going to ridicule him all over the internet”

    Someone said it earlier but when all is said and done he will be a HOF manager and remembered for his Yankee dynasty years. He will not be remembered for what some “experts” say on a random internet board. blah blah Bullpen management blah blah blah blah

  28. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    My deal with Torre is this…..

    He was the highest paid manager in the game. He was being paid to FIND solutions to problems. That’s his job.

    From 1997-2007, the Yankees were not an underdog in a single post-season series.

    Joe wasn’t exactly working with the “Little Engine That Could”.

    Its why the, “They didn’t give him enough talent” argument is lost on me.

    He’s a GREAT handler of people. He is a HORRIBLE handler of bullpens.

    Its why its hard for any of us around the situation to understand why the angst with Arod. They are more alike than dissimilar. Its just a strange thing.

    Its not like Joe Torre doesn’t know what its like to be a diva. Read his contractual riders one day for his personal appearances. They ain’t exactly “light” on diva needs.

    In the end, I think Alex did the right thing last night. He was the bigger man.

    He did it the right way and he put it to bed.

    Now, both can move on and Alex doesn’t have to answer anymore questions about it.

  29. Warning Track Power June 28th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Patrick-
    The real story here is, Kay is very jealous that he himself did not have the opportunity to shake hands with Torre over the weekend.

    Kay was probably drooling over the fantasy that he and Joe would shake hands on the field this weekend, but nobody on the Yankees/dodgers cared enough to make this happen.

    Kay just referred himself as a vindictive creep.
    How professional Kay.
    I’ve said this a million times, Kay is among the worst baseball broadcasters in the game today.
    He has just proved my opinion in the last 20 minutes

  30. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    # On the internet I’m really cool. June 28th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    90% of the comments here sound like the commenter is a lover scorned. “Joe Torre left me for someone not as good as me so I’m going to ridicule him all over the internet”

    Someone said it earlier but when all is said and done he will be a HOF manager and remembered for his Yankee dynasty years. He will not be remembered for what some “experts” say on a random internet board. blah blah Bullpen management blah blah blah blah

    —————–

    Right, keep those blinders on. Just try not to fall off a cliff while you’re at it.

  31. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    Patrick,

    Its all sports radio schtick. Kay is just looking to get phone calls and draw attention.

    I’ve been in the same room with both guys many times. While not close, they aren’t exactly throwing swords at one another. lol

    Kay has two personalities. Talk radio host, which is mostly schtick, and YES PBP guy, which means he has to toe the Yankee company line.

    Sometimes, those lines can blur.

    When it comes to Joe Torre though, any shot Kay takes at him on his radio show isn’t going to get him in trouble with the Yankees, that’s for sure.

  32. Bronx Jeers June 28th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    Torre caught a mild case of Grady Little syndrome last night.

    Girardi seems to me quite adept at rotating guys in and that goes for the pen and the lineup.

    He really is the perfect All-Star Game manager. :wink:

  33. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Warning Power,

    No its not. Kay wasn’t/isn’t looking to be Joe Torre’s friend. Its all radio schtick and nothing more.

  34. gayle June 28th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    SJ-

    something else about last night that I didnt even know until I read today’s LA times not only did he use him in Saturday’s game un-necessarily but he also had him get hot in Friday’s game so that is 3 days in a row so he had pitched 4 out of 5 days and warmed up in the other.

  35. NumberOnePositivePosterInTheUniverse June 28th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    stuckey, I’m with you. You throw down some logic and people refuse to accept it, what can you do?

    Especially with a statement like this:
    Vizcaino couldn’t pitch in the 2007 post-season because Torre blew him out in the regular season. That’s a fact.

    You prove he did in fact pitch, but this person says he didn’t pitch and that’s somehow a fact. Seriously, what can you do if you tell someone the sky is actually blue and they refuse to believe it? I say, just give up.

    For some people it’s so much easier to blame Torre for every loss, discredit him for the winning, and when you subtract all the winning and add up all the losing, then you have the world’s worse manager ever.

    He basically stole money from the Yankees because he never won anything, all he did was lose, and blow out every arm in the bullpen. Oh yeah, the rings were because of Zim.

  36. gayle June 28th, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    There is though a infamous story about Kay and Torre that I have heard before and I will probably get it wrong which goes to why Kay doesnt like Torre.Something about when Kay was with the Post he reported something and then Torre told the players not to talk to him or something like that.

  37. LGY June 28th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    “From 1997-2007, the Yankees were not an underdog in a single post-season series.

    Joe wasn’t exactly working with the “Little Engine That Could”.

    Its why the, “They didn’t give him enough talent” argument is lost on me.”

    ———————————

    I agree SJ and it is basically the point I was making above.

    People always talk about these “flawed” teams Torre had. Ok, but how flawed were the teams he was competing with?

    I really think when evaluating those teams, the dynasty teams have to be separated. They have to be evaluated on their own and in comparison to the competition in those seasons.

    And Torre had more talent than any other team in baseball except for 1 maybe 2 years from 97-07.

    Also Torre was not only the highest paid manager, but by far he was. I believe Lou was the next highest during Torre’s final contract and Joe was making more than twice as much as him.

  38. backbench June 28th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    Test

  39. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    SJ44,

    I know that most of what Kay says and does on the radio is shtick and an attempt to get listeners. But a lot of what he’s saying about Torre is coming from the heart and just shows what a vindictive creep Kay is.

    Even if Kay is exaggerating his feelings on the subject, it’s still true that he has a strong dislike for Torre.

  40. Mike_Boston June 28th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    Kay thinks the world revolves around him. He’s a total waste of space…

  41. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    If you consider pitching 1/3 of an inning in the post-season “pitching” then yes, he pitched.

    Its a shame though he had nothing left because the Yankees could have used his arm in the post-season.

    Why didn’t he have anything left? Read the blog to find out why.

  42. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    Patrick,

    There is no question they don’t like one another. He, unlike a lot of players (more than people will ever know) who don’t like Joe Torre, doesn’t have to worry about “looking bad” or having the politics against you taking on Torre.

  43. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 28th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    Um, Michael Kay is insane.

    First, he starts off his Yankee segment demanding to know why Alex disappointed him and shook Torre’s hand. WHY WHY WHY? Seriously, that’s what he said. Then he goes into an insane rant about letting the hate out, letting the hate work for you.

    It is NO ONE’S business why Alex shook Joe’s hand – no one except Alex. Now, if Alex was pressured into it, I’d be very disappointed. However, if he wanted to do it, then that is fine with me.

  44. Wave Your Hat June 28th, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    You can’t blame the 2007 post-season loss on the bullpen.

  45. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    Betsy,

    Its just radio schtick. I don’t even think Kay believes half that stuff. Its all show biz. Or a bad attempt at it, depending on your POV.

  46. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    NumberOnePositivePosterInTheUniverse June 28th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    For some people it’s so much easier to blame Torre for every loss, discredit him for the winning, and when you subtract all the winning and add up all the losing, then you have the world’s worse manager ever.

    He basically stole money from the Yankees because he never won anything, all he did was lose, and blow out every arm in the bullpen. Oh yeah, the rings were because of Zim.

    —————–

    If you can’t see Torre was a horrible bullpen manager after all the facts posted in this thread alone, I guess you’re better off sticking to your melodramatics. At least stuckey backs up his arguments in a detailed manner.

    Torre won in 1996-2000 applying a certain way of managing. He then thought this was the ONLY way to win titles, and never thought out of the box with regards to BP management thereafter. His own fault.

  47. JM June 28th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Why people can’t accept that Joe Torre’s weak point is bullpen management is beyond me. It’s clear as day, and doesn’t mean people think he was a terrible manager or he shouldn’t get credit for winning four championships.

    It’s just like criticizing Girardi for sometimes managing too much “by the book,” and using match-ups, which I thought may have cost the team a couple of games in the playoffs last year, before the World Series (I thought he managed much, much better in the Series).

    All managers have their pluses and minuses and, as others have said, Torre just stayed a couple of years too long in New York.

  48. backbench June 28th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    I got the impression from this weekend that Torre was going to showcase Broxton no matter what. He got him warmed up and brought him into games, as SJ and other point out, that he didn’t need to.

    It seemed like Torre was trying to show off ‘the next Mariano,’ almost as if to say, “I was responsible for developing Rivera, and look, I am doing it again.”

  49. Wave Your Hat June 28th, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    Torre’s mistake last night was not in bringing in Broxton; it was in not going to a lefty when Granderson and Curtis were coming up.

  50. YankFanCA June 28th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Listening to Michael Kay is “unmanageable.” Seriously, though, the Yankees should be able to offer better than this shill. “Track . . . Wall . . . Track again . . . Caught Shy of the Track.” I enjoy Ken Singleton; he has a pleasant voice and can tell some decent stories. Kay, though, reminds me of someone who defines the Peter Principle, except even he can’t believe he’s risen to the level he has.

    Might Kay possess compromising photos of Hank or Hal?

  51. MTU (aka GBURL) June 28th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    And now for something totally different.

    Is anyone else but me excited for the opportunity to watch 2 of the best young arms in baseball in action tonite ?

  52. RayVT June 28th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    When I look at Yankee BP from 2007 I see quite a number of names!

    Mo had 71.1 innings
    Viz had 75.1 innings
    Farns had 60.0 innings
    Bruney had 50.0 innings
    Myers had 40.2 innings
    Proctor had 54.1 innings
    Villone had 42.1 innings
    Henn had 36.2 innings incl 1 start
    Joba had 24.0 innings
    Edwar had 21.0 innings
    Britton had 12.2 innings
    Veras had 9.1 innings

    Plus – Bean, Brower, Ohlendorf, & some spot AAA starters that pitched BP too.

    I don’t see the mistreatment! Viz pitched 81 innings in (2002), 62 (2003) & 72 (2004) for Mil, 70 (2005) for CWS, 65 (2006) for Az, & 75 for Yanks in (2007)!

  53. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    # backbench June 28th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    I got the impression from this weekend that Torre was going to showcase Broxton no matter what. He got him warmed up and brought him into games, as SJ and other point out, that he didn’t need to.

    It seemed like Torre was trying to show off ‘the next Mariano,’ almost as if to say, “I was responsible for developing Rivera, and look, I am doing it again.”

    —————–

    It’s just classic Joe Torre BP management. If you’ve been following the Yanks 1996-2007, it’s the same old thing:

    Step 1: Pick 2-3 effective relievers in bullpen
    Step 2: Once in a blue moon, try another reliever, preferably in a blowout
    Step 3: If blowout reliever fails, you don’t like him, or give up a run, go back to 3 effective relievers
    Step 4: Run the 3 effective relievers into the ground with high usage

    It just happened to be Broxton’s turn the last 2 nights.

  54. LGY June 28th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    Wave,

    Why wasn’t it a mistake to bring in Broxton?

    It was a 4 run game and the Yankee offense barely showed signs of life the entire game.

    I am all for going against conventional bullpen roles. Like for example using your closer down by 1 run instead of ahead by 3 runs. But a 4 run game?

    He pitched the night before and the following night the Dodgers were set to face their division rivals.

    Using Broxton in that type of game is what leads to having a reliever burned out come the postseason.

  55. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    Ray,

    Its not just the innings. Its the usage patterns and the frequency of their use. Especially when guys are hurting. That’s where he overdid it and he overdid it with Viz in 2007 and it cost him.

  56. stuckey June 28th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    “I also think if Vizciano wasn’t running on fumes in 2007 then we could have held the Indians in Game 1….”

    To what end? Wang gave up 8 earned.

    Yankees scored 3.

  57. Wave Your Hat June 28th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Torre wanted to win the series, so he brought in Broxton. Had he gone to a lefty when Granderson came up, Broxton’s pitch count would have been ordinary. But, Torre didn’t.

  58. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 28th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    SJ and you know what? I shut it off. First, I thought his trying to be Woodward and Bernstein was stupid. Then, the insane rant….I wasn’t interested and I wasn’t going to give him ratings. I personally agree more with him than disagree about Torre, but if Alex decided that he should shake hands with Joe, than that is HIS personal decision and I’m sure he feels good about it.

  59. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    Torre did a decent job of spreading the innings in 2007. He overworked Vizcaino but otherwise did a good job. Look at his other years though…

  60. G. Love June 28th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    SJ,

    You nailed it. The thought that Joe Torre wasn’t given enough talent to win from 2003-2007 is preposterous.

    In fact, if he had just cultivated some of the relievers he glued to the bench, he could have (in theory) had more weapons at his disposal.

    His bullpen management (after Nelson, Stanton and Mendoza left/lost effectiveness) and his feud with Arod culminating in the Detroit ALDS were black marks on his tenure.

  61. THE TRUTH June 28th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Some of those 8 were inherited runners that I believe Olhendorf let score.

    If we hold them there who knows what happens.

  62. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 28th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    I’m not sure who made this point, but it’s a good one: Joe Torre would have killed Phil Hughes last year. I remember we (well, I know I did) wondered why Phil was sometimes used for just one or two outs………and I think SJ had mentioned that Phil was not a career reliever and was not yet used to the different routine of relieving. I thought that was a very good point. Now, Phil struggled in the post-season so perhaps he was tired anyway, but Joe would have ridden him hard and I wonder in what shape his arm would be today.

  63. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 28th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    I thought Girardi did a fantastic job in 2008 showing confidence in his relievers; when they struggled, he did not put them in the doghouse. He sent them out there the next day, where they often succeeded. I have to believe that faith meant a lot to those guys, knowing that they didn’t have to be perfect to get a chance to pitch.

  64. LGY June 28th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    “Torre wanted to win the series, so he brought in Broxton. Had he gone to a lefty when Granderson came up, Broxton’s pitch count would have been ordinary. But, Torre didn’t.”

    ——————————-

    Wave,

    I saw it as him making 2 mistakes.

    He should not have been so desperate to win the series with a 4 run lead especially heading into a very important series for his team.

    Would you be comfortable with Girardi going to Mo with a 4 run lead heading into a series against Boston?

  65. mick June 28th, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    I’ve said this a million times, Kay is among the worst baseball broadcasters in the game today.
    ==========================================================
    Can anyone please tell me why this guy, as unpopular as he is, has this job?
    Is anyone paying attention?
    Some day he will say something that will get him fired.

  66. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 28th, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    Oh, and I HATE that Joe West is umpiring this series; he shouldn’t go within 10 miles of a Sox or Yankee game

  67. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    Can’t sell the lack of talent argument to me.

    Joe did a lot of things right in his time in NY.

    His handling of Arod and his bullpen management in his last 5 years in the job aren’t two of them.

  68. LGY June 28th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    Why do you think there needed to be Joba rules in 2007?

  69. RayVT June 28th, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    Thanks! I know it isn’t just innings! Viz had a rubber arm as I remember much like Mendoza did. I’m not making an excuse for Joe T.

    Last year Joe G blew out Bruney & Veras. He also had CC pitching in early April 120+ pitches with a 9 run lead after all CC went thru the year before. Joe G also had Mo out there a lot early in the year too. I don’t see where Joe G was any better.

    I in no way think Broxton should have been in there last night or night before. And if he was it should have been for only 1 inning or less.

  70. CRAWDADDY (Boycott ESPN-NY) June 28th, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    The subject of Joe Torre shouldn’t be much of a subject matter for Yankee fans until the time comes when he’s inducted in the HOF and the Yankees are faced with the issue of making up with their former manager so that the team and its fanbase can move forward from 2007. I believe it’s in the best interest of both parties to move forward so we can all enjoy those four WS championships with fond memories. With that said, I think Torre needs to make the first move and he needs to do it with Cashman then with Hal.

  71. stuckey June 28th, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    “Some of those 8 were inherited runners that I believe Olhendorf let score.

    If we hold them there who knows what happens.”

    So IF Vizcaino is more effective, HE comes in in the 5th inning, prevents the inherited runs from scoring, AND the Yankees then come back and score more than 3 runs, because they are down by 5 through 5?

    THAT’s your argument?

    I’ll give you this, it’s better than SJ44′s…

  72. m June 28th, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    If Torre didn’t leave Broxton in to blow this game, would would the topic du jour be?

    Would we be talking about our bullpen? Trade for a DH? The Sox (who are still winning, and to be fair their injury situation has been worse than us)? How it is possible to be tied with the Rangers? The Rangers! (crisis averted there)

  73. YankFanCA June 28th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    Girardi certainly deserves credit for bullpen management. He puts a lot of trust in his relievers, but he’s no fool either. He won’t bring in Park or Logan if the team has any chance to win a game. Chan Ho must go.

  74. THE TRUTH June 28th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    Right, because the Yankees never come back when they are done 5 runs….

  75. THE TRUTH June 28th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    down* not done

  76. Wave Your Hat June 28th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    LGY-

    To be fair, Girardi has used Mo 7 or 8 times this year in non-save, non-tie situations, and Mo has 29.1 innings vs Broxton’s 33, so overall I don’t think you can say Broxton’s been used too much as compared to Mo.

    Whether last night’s appearance was warranted last night compared with how Mo’s been used, I can’t say. You’d have to go back and see when mo pitched those extra innings, which I haven’t done.

    In fact, you might consider that Joe Torre was more worried about holding a 4 run lead against the Yanks than a 2 or 3 run lead against the Giants, and I can’t say I blame him. The Yank offense is explosive so you try to keep the lid on when you can. And, there might not be a save situation tomorrow night.

    It just didn’t work out. But, I would have gone to a lefty when Granderson came up.

  77. stuckey June 28th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    We all can talk until we’re blue in the face. Id suggest anyone interest in the FACTS simply go here and look at what happened and draw your own conclusions.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/sc.....rk-yankees

    You can use the drop down menu to check the post-season boxscores/play-by-plays to your heart’s desire.

    If anyone want to look over 2004-2007 and conclude the BULLPEN was much of a factor, well, I couldn’t agree, but at least you’d be doing so from an informed position.

    I don’t think there is a lot of that going on around here at the moment.

  78. RS June 28th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Betsy,

    I remember a game against the Red Sox last year where the Yankees had a 1 run lead in the 8th inning with a chance to sweep the series and Girardi went to Phil Coke instead of Hughes. Coke ended up giving up a HR and many fans were livid that Hughes didn’t pitch that inning (the Yankees won the game anyway). That’s just one example where you know Torre wouldn’t have been able to resist using his best setup reliever in a big game against a rival, even if the rest probably helped him in the long run.

  79. Ace June 28th, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    What does it take for the Yanks to have a chance to draft Gerrit Cole in 2011?

  80. LGY June 28th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Wave,

    I very much agree he should have gone to a lefty when Granderson came up.

  81. Yankee Trader June 28th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    To change the subject, righty FA Jose Guillen and his 21 game hitting streak are on the trading block, with the Royals willing to eat salary. Might be our best bet to pick up a spare outfielder/DH without giving up much and who will be off the payroll at the end of this season.

  82. m June 28th, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Ace,

    How about promising him a 2011 WS ring if he pledges to create signability issues for all the teams that pick before us? :D

    Wait…that won’t work. Kid can’t be trusted. j/k

  83. stuckey June 28th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    “Right, because the Yankees never come back when they are done 5 runs….”

    Using this “logic” you can open up the notion that the Yanks should NEVER have lost any postseason game or series. You can backtrack EVERY run they ever gave up or didn’t score and retroactively fix the “problem” that led to it in hindsight.

    And you can do it in reverse too. Every run scored by the Yankees and game one was just a series of mistakes and miscalculations of the opposing team and manager.

    Sure, it fun (though a little circular and endless) but has little value otherwise.

  84. RalphieD (OPPC) June 28th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    i dont get why people despise kay so much…hes not a great announcer but hes not terrible like some people make him sound…ehh, to each their own

  85. RS June 28th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    “To be fair, Girardi has used Mo 7 or 8 times this year in non-save, non-tie situations, and Mo has 29.1 innings vs Broxton’s 33, so overall I don’t think you can say Broxton’s been used too much as compared to Mo.”

    You can’t just look at innings. Mo threw 2 innings last night and threw fewer pitches than Broxton did in his 1 inning of work.

    Broxton has a ridiculous number of strikeouts this season and probably doesn’t have as many 10-12 pitch innings as Mo does. I bet if you look at pitches count, Broxton has been much more overworked. For instance, in just the past five days he has thrown 97 pitches. That’s a starting pitcher’s workload!

  86. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    i dont get why people despise kay so much…hes not a great announcer but hes not terrible like some people make him sound…ehh, to each their own

    Actually he is terrible

  87. YankFanCA June 28th, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Ralphie — The words smug, self-absorbed, and very unfunny though always trying to be funny sum up Kay. You might find his Kevin Mench-sized head to be a positive, but I won’t give him credit for that.

  88. Truth or Dare June 28th, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    “It seemed like Torre was trying to show off ‘the next Mariano,’ almost as if to say, “I was responsible for developing Rivera, and look, I am doing it again.”

    Bull. Torre abused Broxton. Why? Because as many have said and I agree he is a horrible bullpen manager. I felt bad for Broxton, throwing a million pitches and Torre leaving him out there.

    There will never be another MO, never.

  89. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    Broxton’s broken the 20 pitch barrier 8 times this season. Mo has had only 5 such outings.

  90. YankFanCA June 28th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Truth has a point. Torre’s stubbornness cost him. How many times did Broxton go to 6+ pitchers on a batter last night? After a while, he simply had nothing left. Great work by the Yankees’ hitters. Poor job by Torre letting the guy throw the equivalent of half a ballgame in one inning.

  91. stuckey June 28th, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    “In fact, you might consider that Joe Torre was more worried about holding a 4 run lead against the Yanks than a 2 or 3 run lead against the Giants, and I can’t say I blame him. ”

    EXACTLY…

    But like manager, fans have become slaves to the arbitrary “save” stat to the point where they don’t even think about what it means.

    “3 runs” was a decision some committee once made.

    Some closers SHOULD be used with 4-5 run leads. Some closers should stay in the pen with a 2 run league. But the “save” has made a generation unable to make any critical distinctions about the actual game situations.

    “3 run lead at home vs Seattle’s 6-8 hitters -gotta use Rivera, it’s a SAVE SITUATION afterall”

  92. mick June 28th, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    Kay and Sterling are a product of todays world.
    Guys like Red Barber and Mel Allen , even Scooter, White and others were low key.
    Todays spectator must enjoy the pomp and circumstance these clowns put out there.
    Anything to keep the game from getting boring. That is their greatest fear, that we will get bored and turn off the game.
    Instead they do everything they can to keep us entertained and keep ratings high.

    Well Scooter wasn’t really low key but at least he was funny.

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