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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Rodriguez: “Every day is a little better”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Podcast on Jun 28, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Yankees Dodgers BaseballAlex Rodriguez saw two pitches in his first at-bat last night. He took one for a ball. He rolled the second one to third base for a fielder’s choice.

“The first at-bat was just awful,” he said. “We made an in-game adjustment. Kevin Long made an adjustment with my posture and my stance and we put it to work.”

Nothing major. Rodriguez just spread out a little bit, use his legs a little more and not stay so vertical. It worked to the tune of a home run and a base hit. He’s hit three homers in the past five games.

“I feel like every day I’ve gotten a little bit better,” Rodriguez said. “I feel like I have a long way to go and can get a lot better. Every day is a little better.”

Rodriguez and Mark Teixeira have each shown signs of life. Those two hitting up to their standards while Robinson Cano has a breakout year behind them would be scary.

Here’s the audio of Rodriguez from last night. It’s worth hearing if only for the last few seconds. Rodriguez had stopped to talk while standing right in front of Mariano Rivera’s locker, so when Mo got out of the shower he found a massive crowd gathered. He immediately declared that everyone, including Alex, had to disperse. You can hear Rodriguez laughing, saying over and over again, “I’m sorry Mo!”

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Associated Press photo of Rodriguez.

 
 

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141 Responses to “Rodriguez: “Every day is a little better””

  1. Joe June 28th, 2010 at 11:22 am

    He’s relaxed ! Go get ‘em Alex ! Does anyone think we will trade for Cliff Lee ?

  2. MTU (aka GBURL) June 28th, 2010 at 11:29 am

    When Mo talks people listen. :)

  3. blake June 28th, 2010 at 11:37 am

    That’s pretty Funny…Rivera is the man….I can only imagine what Torre was thinking last night as he watched the guy he counted on for so long help rip a win away from him.

  4. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    # blake June 28th, 2010 at 11:37 am

    That’s pretty Funny…Rivera is the man….I can only imagine what Torre was thinking last night as he watched the guy he counted on for so long help rip a win away from him.

    ——————-

    Yesterday was for Mo’s revenge for his buddies Proctor, Quantrill, Gordon and Sturtze. RIP for those guys’ right arms. :(

  5. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Repost

    # vblade June 28th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    # Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    vblade,

    I’m jealous! That had to be fun to see Strasburg first hand. How were your seats?

    ——————-

    My seats were awful (12 buck seats lol, I just wanted to see Mr. Phenom) so I just stood behind the seats in the lower deck to watch him close up. We happened to be on vacation in DC during a Stras start, which was lucky as heck. Place was jammed as always.

    He never seemed rattled. His stuff was pretty much all over the place, even his velocity was inconsistent, ranging anywhere between 92-97 mph on the fastball. Still, he kept his head in the game and limited the Royals to a bunch of singles.

    Nationals offense is putrid, though. They were completely shut down by Bannister.

  6. MTU (aka GBURL) June 28th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Blake-

    Think air going out of a baloon.

    Or knowing you are facing certain death.

    Or knowing that you have just been checkmated.

    Or wishing you were somewhere else, anywhere else.

    Sort of like that. ;)

  7. Bronx Born June 28th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    MTU- You are worthy my friend. Never doubt it. If you inspire how can you not be worthy.

  8. blake June 28th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    I agree …had to be tough.

    Watching other closers in baseball come and go, succeed and fail, just shows even more how special Mariano really is.

  9. MTU (aka GBURL) June 28th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Bronx-

    I am only the messenger. It is a gift to have the priviledge to share. You KNOW who really does the inspiring. Can’t take any credit for that.

    I’ll get to find out if I am worthy later. We all will. But thanks for thinking so nevertheless. :)

  10. MTU (aka GBURL) June 28th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Blake-

    Mo is one of a kind. A class unto himself. When you lose that it has to hurt. It cannot be replaced.

  11. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Mo looks like he can pitch until he’s 50. He stays in tremendous shape.

  12. rj June 28th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    I posted this the other day, but Mo has often (half?) joked that he’d pick up the knuckler in his latter years. I bet he could do it, if he wanted to. Imagine a Mo cutter/knuckler combo.

  13. Barry Lane June 28th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Riviera loves Torre, as do Posada, Jeter and Pettite, the guys, Proctor, Gordon, etc are in no way in the loop with the core four. If you want to know what the players think of Joe Torre, listen to them. Watch them. Stop making it up to suit private and ininformed prejudices.

    Barry Lane

  14. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    We all talk about how great Mariano Rivera is because of his pitching in the regular and postseason but the fact that he survived for 12 seasons in Joe Torre’s bullpen without a major injury is a hall of fame feat in itself.

  15. Ed H. June 28th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    “Nationals offense is putrid, though. They were completely shut down by Bannister.”

    vblade,

    The Nats have been inconsistent this year and are 33-43, a far sight better than their record last year. In ’09 they were the worst team in baseball at 59-103 (while the Yanks had the best record at 103-59). It was weird for me being a fan of both the best team in baseball and the worst.

  16. Bronx Born June 28th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Okay MTU – but did you get the poem? :)

  17. MTU (aka GBURL) June 28th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Mo is made from “Riverium” the most durable and versatile element found on Earth. He is the only known sample thus far.

    He will never get rusty, he has the sheen of gold, and strength of Titanium to withstand stress and heat. The perfect blend. :)

  18. MTU (aka GBURL) June 28th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Bronx-

    I did not. I sent you an e-mail to that effect.

    please try resending it.

  19. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    # Barry Lane June 28th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Riviera loves Torre, as do Posada, Jeter and Pettite, the guys, Proctor, Gordon, etc are in no way in the loop with the core four. If you want to know what the players think of Joe Torre, listen to them. Watch them. Stop making it up to suit private and ininformed prejudices.

    Barry Lane

    ————-

    I was half joking regarding the four relievers.

    It’s still a travesty how they were abused, however. Gordon and Proctor threw nearly 300 IP combined in 2004 and 2005, and were ruined for good thereafter. Torre isn’t the saint everyone likes to make him out to be. He is human just like every other manager.

  20. Patrick from CT June 28th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    I was thinking to myself last night when the Dodgers scored their 6 runs, oh well, 3-3 on a west coat trip is not that bad.
    Then Holy Cow the boys came back and showed why they are the best in the game.

  21. pat June 28th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    With all the Sox injuries, I missed hearing Lowell went on the DL again.

    That can’t be helping any trade talk or salary clearing the Sox were hoping for.

  22. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    # Ed H. June 28th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    “Nationals offense is putrid, though. They were completely shut down by Bannister.”

    vblade,

    The Nats have been inconsistent this year and are 33-43, a far sight better than their record last year. In ‘09 they were the worst team in baseball at 59-103 (while the Yanks had the best record at 103-59). It was weird for me being a fan of both the best team in baseball and the worst.

    ————————–

    Based on what I observed during the game, once Bannister got ahead, the entire lineup didn’t have the discipline to stop swinging at slop out of the zone. Bannister pretty much just exploited the aggressiveness of their lineup.

    Their lineup will cream pitchers that leave fastballs in the zone for them to hit, but struggle against breaking ball pitchers. It’s expected due to their relative inexperience.

  23. MTU (aka GBURL) June 28th, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Pat-

    From what has been happening to the Sox this season only 1 conclusion is possible.

    The curse of the Bambino is back. :)

  24. Bronx Born June 28th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    I resent it but.. what the heck.. you can have it here too:

    EARTH-WALKER
    My friend mike
    walks the planet
    from one end
    to the other
    always looking
    on the brightest
    sides
    spotting beauty
    in places
    no eyes
    have tread

    My friend mike
    Is the consummate
    earth-walker

    – Mountains
    are his avenues

    – Valleys
    his boulevards

    Mike’s mind
    Is a map
    of earthly
    treasure

    His spirit
    a highlight reel
    of splendor

    Look
    At the fragments
    of reality
    he has explored
    and documented
    so others can
    walk in his eyes

    My friend Mike
    Earth-Walker

    © 2010 lgjaffe

  25. rj June 28th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    For the Sox players who are injured, I feel bad on a personal level, you never want to see anyone get hurt (ok, maybe Varitek :) ) but as a team and especially towards their fan base, I am feeling a great wave of schadenfreude!!

  26. cs in la June 28th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    OK, first let me say that I am one of the biggest fans of ALex there is (and of Tex). But don’t you think its a bit silly for us to be ok with them saying that “they’re starting to come around” WHEN ITS ALMOST JULY!

    I mean seriously, why are we ok with them taking half a season off?

  27. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    # cs in la June 28th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    OK, first let me say that I am one of the biggest fans of ALex there is (and of Tex). But don’t you think its a bit silly for us to be ok with them saying that “they’re starting to come around” WHEN ITS ALMOST JULY!

    I mean seriously, why are we ok with them taking half a season off?

    —————-

    A-Rod wasn’t 100% for most of the year. His upper body wasn’t generating any power, and therefore his power numbers were down.

    Tex on the other hand is a slow starter, every single year. It’s just slower this year than most years. It’s just the way some players are. Yankees signed the guy knowing he had putrid numbers in April and May.

  28. MTU (aka GBURL) June 28th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Bronx-

    Thank you. I am embarrassed. Sent you a reply.

  29. pat June 28th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    “A-Rod wasn’t 100% for most of the year. His upper body wasn’t generating any power, and therefore his power numbers were down.”

    Alex generates power from his lower body.

  30. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    # pat June 28th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    “A-Rod wasn’t 100% for most of the year. His upper body wasn’t generating any power, and therefore his power numbers were down.”

    Alex generates power from his lower body.

    —————

    I heard from Kay that he was having trouble generating the quick motion from his hip rotation, slowing down his swing somewhat.

    Then again that was Kay, and he’s hardly a mechanics expert, so it might be wrong.

  31. pat June 28th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    cs in la

    I believe Alex was referring to coming back from the hip flexor injury and not the season.

  32. G-C June 28th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    I’m not one who believed Torre was a good strategical manager, but I think his overuse of certain relievers is sometimes wholly overblown.

    My perspective on it is that Torre never abused any of his prized relievers, guys who he knew he needed to count on for the long term. The careers of Rivera, Stanton, Nelson, and Mendoza speak well to that. No one ever talked about how Torre “abused” either of those four guys and they were the core of the dynasty bullpens.

    Tanyon Sturtze, aside from a couple of weeklong stretches, was a terrible pitcher for the majority of his career. He wasn’t abused, he just went back to sucking and consequently, at the age of 36, was out of baseball. Scott Proctor was worked very, very hard, and perhaps is the only real example I can think of where Torre truly went overboard with things. Paul Quantrill was an aging softtosser who threw in 80, 89, and 86 games in the three years before coming to the Yankees. He threw in 86 with the Yankees in 2004. The real mistake with him was not shelving him after his opening day injury in Japan.

    Gordon battled arm problems his entire career, was knocking on 40 years old, and ended up having an all star year with Philly the year after leaving the Yankees. How long did you expect him to pitch well for?

  33. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Hey if Roger is around, congrats on the Netherlands making it to the final 8

  34. the gay Yankee fan June 28th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Any new information on Gardner?

  35. SJ44 June 28th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Struggling isn’t “taking a half season off.

    Don’t confuse lack of results with lack of effort. Too many fans do that and it’s wrong.

    The game is a struggle at times. Even for great players.

    Arod has been hurt all year and has more RBI than Pujols. Some food for thought.

  36. Bronx Born June 28th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Sorry to embarrass you my friend MTU! But I could not resist. :)

  37. G-C June 28th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Some food for thought on prospects…

    Montero is now up to .254/.317/.422. He’s hitting .342/.375/.711 in his last ten games and is going a long way towards correcting his early season horror show. I’m holding my breath though. He had a big time hot streak in the middle of the month and then from the 19th to the 22nd went 1 for 16. Its going to be interesting to see if he can really build on this and finish the season well or if this is just another flash in the pan hot streak in an inconsistent season.

    Dellin Betances is pitching his way back into top 100 prospect status. Given where he started the season, coming off injuries and ineffectiveness the past couple years, thats really remarkable.

    It looks like the organization might want to check out Tim Norton as a reliever at some point this year. He too has battled injuries in his career but has pitched well whenever he’s been healthy. They’ve moved him aggressively this year, and he’s touched AAA. He’s back in Trenton now, where he’s given up just 1 run in 7 innings and has 12 strikeouts. Keep an eye on him.

  38. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    # G-C June 28th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    I’m not one who believed Torre was a good strategical manager, but I think his overuse of certain relievers is sometimes wholly overblown.

    My perspective on it is that Torre never abused any of his prized relievers, guys who he knew he needed to count on for the long term. The careers of Rivera, Stanton, Nelson, and Mendoza speak well to that. No one ever talked about how Torre “abused” either of those four guys and they were the core of the dynasty bullpens.

    Tanyon Sturtze, aside from a couple of weeklong stretches, was a terrible pitcher for the majority of his career. He wasn’t abused, he just went back to sucking and consequently, at the age of 36, was out of baseball. Scott Proctor was worked very, very hard, and perhaps is the only real example I can think of where Torre truly went overboard with things. Paul Quantrill was an aging softtosser who threw in 80, 89, and 86 games in the three years before coming to the Yankees. He threw in 86 with the Yankees in 2004. The real mistake with him was not shelving him after his opening day injury in Japan.

    Gordon battled arm problems his entire career, was knocking on 40 years old, and ended up having an all star year with Philly the year after leaving the Yankees. How long did you expect him to pitch well for?

    ——————————-

    I looked up some stats from the dynasty years’ middle relievers and found them interesting:

    1996 IP:

    Rivera 107.1
    Wickman 79
    Nelson 74

    1997 IP:

    Mendoza 133.1
    Nelson 78
    Stanton 76

    1998 IP:

    Mendoza 130
    Stanton 79

    1999 IP:

    Mendoza 123
    Grimsley 75
    Stanton 62

    2000 IP:

    Grimsley 96
    Nelson 69
    Stanton 68

    Torre had “favorite” relievers, usually 2 or 3 outside of Rivera, that got bulk of the innings in any single season. Everyone else got scrap innings here and there. It suggests that he still tended to use his best relievers in games that weren’t all that close, against teams that weren’t all that good, giving them unnecessary additional workload. Whether it actually contributed to these relievers blowing out their arms is up for debate, but his fetish for using a small amount of relievers all the time is a real negative, as exemplified as yesterday’s meltdown.

  39. mick June 28th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Don’t forget the AB’s by the two rooks last night.
    And Posada.

  40. RMS June 28th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Mo is the best there was, the best there is and the best there will ever be. Appropriate description even though I stole it form Brett Hart.

  41. Truth or Dare June 28th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    I’m glad Arod went over to Torre. He showed he is the better man.

  42. G-C June 28th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    “Torre had “favorite” relievers, usually 2 or 3 outside of Rivera, that got bulk of the innings in any single season. Everyone else got scrap innings here and there.”

    I can’t disagree with this. But using Mendoza as an example is a bit tricky. He started a number of games in both 1998 and 1999 and even made 6 starts in 1999.

    Grimsley was worked very, very hard. One of the better examples for people who make the claim. I had totally forgotten about him until you included him.

  43. RMS June 28th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Torre was not a good mgr. of the bullpen.

  44. mick June 28th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    I still say those long AB’s are the key to our success.
    Might take a hungry rookie to show us the way back there.
    That 10 pitch AB by Curtis was killed Broxton.

  45. Pat M. June 28th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Ever since Stanton & Nelson left from the Dynasty club, the Yankee bullpen consisted of over the hill free agent relievers, or guys picked up at yard sales…..I watched Scott Proctor pitch in his early years with the Dodgers / San Diego…..Always had a live arm but suffered from the moving plate disease, although the Yanks did help him improve on that somewhat…….My point is, The Yanks are all about winning games, Torre’s job is to win game, the fans ( LoHuders especially demand winning games )…….So if you have but a few options out there you ride them until you can’t ride them no more……..Do remember, after 2003 when Wells, Petite & Roger left, the rotation was lucky to get the ball to the 6th inning……..2005 was all about Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon and then Wang, still no pen…….Until Joba popped up on the scene in 07 the Yankees had nobody coming up through the system to offer help in the pen……..Although it has become fashionable to drill Torre on his overusing the few trusted arms he had to secure wins, the alternative was run the risk of losing those games and not be playing in October…..The arms that are mentioned here so often were guys who’s careers were rescued of the scrap pile or guys who were getting one last payday…….Pick your poison, you can’t have it both ways back then….Today’s bullpen is a much different situation, there’s depth and they are for the most part young home grown arms……..

  46. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    I like Torre, and I thought he did overall a good job managing the Yankees. But lets be fair, he was TERRIBLE at managing a bullpen. Joe Girardi is a huge upgrade in that department.

  47. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    # G-C June 28th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    “Torre had “favorite” relievers, usually 2 or 3 outside of Rivera, that got bulk of the innings in any single season. Everyone else got scrap innings here and there.”

    I can’t disagree with this. But using Mendoza as an example is a bit tricky. He started a number of games in both 1998 and 1999 and even made 6 starts in 1999.

    Grimsley was worked very, very hard. One of the better examples for people who make the claim. I had totally forgotten about him until you included him.

    ——————-

    The numbers for Gordon, Sturtze and Quantrill between 2003-2006 were also similar to this. It was stunning to me that Gordon was able to log close to 100 IP workloads for back to back years in 2004 and 2005 without blowing out his arm somewhere in between.

    From what I remember about Mendoza, he was extremely durable, one of those rubber arm type guys. Guys like him, Stanton and Nelson reinforced Torre’s penchant for only using 3 relievers outside of Rivera, and it carried over for the rest of his managerial career after that because of the success of those three. It doesn’t work for every reliever though, and it showed with guys like Quantrill and Gordon, who ran out of gas during the playoffs.

    Gordon was pounded to the tune of a 5+ ERA in the 2004 postseason against the Twins and Red Sox. Quantrill gave up 8 hits in 3.1 IP in the 2004 ALCS. The bullpen meltdown during that series could be partly attributed to overuse. Had Torre resorted to a more balanced use of relievers in the regular season, perhaps there might have been a different result.

  48. Roger(The Dutch Yankees Fan)Final 8!! June 28th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    What a terrible game!next game…Holland-Brazil(or Chilli)!

  49. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    As an example, Girardi made use of 10 relievers in 2009, all logging at least 20 innings.

    The only non-spot starter, Phil Coke, topped out at 60 IP.

    One could argue that as a result, the best relievers were kept fresh at the end of the season, and better equipped for a deep playoff run.

  50. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    I meant “of the non-spot starters, Phil Coke topped out at 60 IP”.

  51. Pat M. June 28th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Patrick, Joe Giradi has a far deeper bullpen to work with compared to what Torre had after he not only lost the three starters, but also had a thin pen….Every winter The Yanks brought in some near end of their career high priced reliever….It was one after another, until they hit pay dirt with Flash Gordon who was a high mileage arm to begin with…….The options at the other end of the phone wasn’t to thrilling if you recall……It’s all about getting to the postseason and then roll the dice…..What really hurt was the rotation back then……The days of Mendoza, Nelson & Stanton were over, plus they lost Wells, Pettite & Clemens…….In retrospect, it’s really amazing that they made the postseason those years…..It was an old lineup they lived on the long ball with very little flexibility……All I’m attempting to bring there is a little perspective and objectivity

  52. G. Love June 28th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Pat M,

    I’m not sure that’s fair. If Torre had the current bullpen we have he would burn Joba and Robertsen out by the all star break. He wouldn’t find the innings for the other guys that Girardi has. It would be Joba and Robertsen in every game the Yankees were theoretically in.

    Girardi has shown the ability to restrain himself from such decisions. He knows he can’t keep going to well every night. He wants these guys for the whole season. He openly says certain guys aren’t available before games start to the media.

    Torre never showed that kind of touch for the pen. He was pedal to the metal from the get go. There was that season that Luis Vizcaino was actually effective and then Torre ran him out almost every single night until the guy couldn’t pitch anymore. Was he a scrap heap reliever? I guess. But he didn’t let the guy come up for air once he made it into the inner circle in the pen.

    Girardi has been stretching out Marte right before our eyes. He’s going away from the one hitter appearances for the guy and it’s the right thing to do. I think Marte is going to get longer outings and not just be a specialist.

    Watching that game last night and seeing what was done to Broxton brought back a flood of memories for Yankee fans.

    I remember watching guys who were completely gassed on the mound here trying to pitch because Torre wouldn’t call a different number from the pen. The difference between Torre and Girardi is Torre was unwillingly to try to trust someone during a game like last night’s. With a 4 run lead last night, he should have called a different number and had Broxton waiting just in case.

    Broxton is a big kid and I’m sure he’ll bounce back from the workload this weekend, but it just felt all too familiar watching the team’s best reliever get burnt out in front of our eyes. Now he’s really not available for their next series and it sets their pen up to be short.

  53. Chip June 28th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    After this weekend’s series and especially watching Mariano dominate the Dodgers I wonder if Terry Francona and Ron Gardenhire thought about calling up Joe Torre and saying “you see…this is what we’ve been dealing with for the last fifteen years! How’s it feel to be on the other side?”

  54. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Great post G Love, completely agree.

    Girardi is always accused of “overmanaging”, but he’s always got his bullpen arms’ long term health in the back of his mind in every pitching change. He finds a balance between winning games and keeping pitchers’ workload balanced.

    With Torre, it was always 3 guys overworked, and the rest rotting on the bench.

  55. Joe from Long Island June 28th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    GLove – you very eloquently just said/wrote what I have thought. He used Broxton Saturday, and again last night as the first option for the 9th, despite a non-save situation (4 run lead).

    FWIW, I’ve wondered if the Red Sox are going to experience a similar sort of thing with Bard. He seems to be in a lot of boxscores.

  56. MaineYankee June 28th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Joe from Long Island

    You deduction skills from earlier are very good. :lol:

  57. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    # Joe from Long Island June 28th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    GLove – you very eloquently just said/wrote what I have thought. He used Broxton Saturday, and again last night as the first option for the 9th, despite a non-save situation (4 run lead).

    FWIW, I’ve wondered if the Red Sox are going to experience a similar sort of thing with Bard. He seems to be in a lot of boxscores.

    ————-

    I don’t think Francona has much choice in this regard. Papelblown has been shaky and the rest of that bullpen is a question mark.

    If they want to hang onto leads in the late innings, they might blow out the kid’s arm trying to do so. 40 IP already and not yet at the ASB.

    7 appearances since June 15th, posting holds in 5 of those outings, and going more than one inning twice, trying to get the ball to the closer.

  58. Jerkface June 28th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Patrick, Joe Giradi has a far deeper bullpen to work with compared to what Torre had after he not only lost the three starters, but also had a thin pen

    This was more because Torre refused to use anyone brought up. Girardi turned Edwar into a valuable piece in 08, Torre watched him strike out the side vs Morneau, Cuddyer, and whomever and then sat him for 20 days.

    Torre had ‘his guys’ in the pen that he went to over and over. He didnt allow fresh blood to rotate in.

  59. Chip June 28th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Off Day Debate:

    What current hall of famers are playing in the majors. By that I mean, if they retired today they would be in the hall five years from now (so guys like Joe Mauer don’t count)

    My picks:

    Alex
    Derek
    Mo
    Manny
    Omar Vizquel
    Jim Thome
    Chipper Jones
    Pudge Rodriguez
    Roy Halladay
    Ichiro
    Trevor Hoffman

    Two guys who I’m torn on:
    Abreu (check the stats, it’s not as cut and dry as you would think)
    Johan Santana

    and, though he just retired, obviously Ken Griffey Jr.

    Guys not playing but not retired:
    Pedro
    Smoltz

  60. MTS June 28th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Big V, did Girardi Mage the bullpen well enough to make him a better manager than Torre?

  61. YankeeRay June 28th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    In the LA Times Torre was complaining about how quick the umpires eject players and that they should take some responsibility in keeping the players in the game.
    I have to say I agree with him on that.
    Maybe soccer has something there and the umps should give the players a yellow card first which brings a fine.
    Second yellow card and you’re gone.
    Just saying :)

  62. Jerkface June 28th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    In the LA Times Torre was complaining about how quick the umpires eject players and that they should take some responsibility in keeping the players in the game.

    He had multiple players get in the refs face, thats never allowed.

  63. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    # MTS June 28th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Big V, did Girardi Mage the bullpen well enough to make him a better manager than Torre?

    ———————

    Whether Girardi is a better manager than Torre is up for debate. There are too many aspects of the job that cannot be quantified by stats for anyone to arrive at a real conclusion.

    But in terms of keeping guys fresh and sharp in the bullpen, and avoiding overuse, Girardi is miles ahead of Torre, whose penchant of playing favorites likely caused fatigue in the relief corps from 2002-2007, which may have contributed to their early playoff exits. Using only 3 relievers for the bulk of the innings in a 162 game season is a recipe for disaster.

  64. ac1 June 28th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    ARod hasnt been bad this year. who cares about the lower homeruns? he has 50+ rbis already. And no one is ‘ok’ with tex being at 230 in june, but the team is winning so it is overlooked.

  65. Noreaster June 28th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Thanks for the great audio Chad!

    With all these injuries on the Sox and with the Rays not playing well, it would be nice to see the Yankees go on a roll and leave July with a 7 game lead.

  66. Chip June 28th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    I don’t think it’s right to say Girardi’s a better manager than Torre – I think it’s safe to say that they’re completely different manaagers.

    Torre was not and is not an X’s and O’s guy. He is going to put his team on the field and if he’s got the more talented team, he’s going to win more often than he loses. His strength is in getting guys with big egos to buy into team mentality and keep outside pressure from the media or ownership from filtering into the clubhouse.

    Girardi is more of a field general, he’s going to make adjustments, he’s going to use the entire roster and do his best to keep everyone fresh without overworking anyone. He’s going to micromanage things and will be very focused on the fundamentals. This type of manager tends to have a short shelf life (as in Buck Showalter)

  67. YankeeRay June 28th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Jerkface June 28th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
    In the LA Times Torre was complaining about how quick the umpires eject players and that they should take some responsibility in keeping the players in the game.

    ?

    He had multiple players get in the refs face, thats never allowed.

    —–
    They were whining the whole series. Surprised at Donnies reaction Friday night and quite a few complained and showed their anger in the dugout.
    Looks like Joe is losing the grip there.

  68. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Pat M.,

    I disagree. Although Girardi has more depth in the pen than Torre did, it doesn’t justify Torre’s management of the pen. He had guys that could eat innings, he should have had his middle of the road pitchers take the majority of the innings (like Girardi did with Coke last year) and save his good arms for big spots.

    Check this out:

    2004

    Rivera – 78.2 IP
    Quantrill – 95.1 IP
    Gordon – 89.2 IP
    Sturtze – 77.1 IP (3 starts)

    next closest reliever was at 38.2 IP

    2005

    Rivera – 78.1 IP
    Gordon – 80.2 IP
    Sturtz – 78.0 IP

    next closest reliever was 44.2 IP

    2006

    Rivera – 75.0 IP
    Proctor – 102.1 IP
    Villone – 80.1 IP
    Farnsworth – 66.0 IP

    next closest was 30.2 IP

    2007 (this year is much better)

    Rivera – 71.1 IP
    Vizcaino – 75.1 IP
    Farnsworth – 60 IP
    Proctor – 54.2 IP
    Bruney – 50 IP

    So 2007 was actually pretty decent. Other than that Torre really abused his top 3 or 4 guys. It’s a miracle that Rivera stayed healthy for so long.

    Now lets look at Girardi’s 2 years managing the pen.

    2008

    Rivera – 70.2 IP
    Chamberlain – 35 IP (if i’m doing the math right)
    Veras – 57.2 IP
    Ramirez – 55.1 IP
    Farnsworth – 44.1 IP
    Hawkins – 41.0 IP
    Bruney – 34.1 IP
    Robertson – 30.1 IP
    Ohlendorf – 40.0 IP

    You can’t tell me that the 2008 pen had more talent than some of Torre’s earlier bullpens. Seriously, Edwar Ramirez and Jose Veras were our main setup guys when Joba was in the rotation and they are now out of the league.

    2009
    Rivera – 66.0 IP
    Hughes – 51.1 IP
    Coke – 60.0 IP
    Robertson – 43.2 IP
    Bruney – 39.0 IP
    Aceves – 80.2 IP
    Albaladejo – 34.0 IP

    So it looks like Aceves might have been overused but otherwise Girardi kept the usage pretty uniform.

    I would contend that Girardi might have had a little more talent to work with but he made much better use of that talent. By not overworking his relievers he kept them all fresh and got career performances out of guys like Edwar and Veras.

  69. Pat M. June 28th, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Joba /Broxton have about the same about of innings……The Curtis at bat killed Broxton and The Dodgers last night…….If you look at the Dodger relievers, they have spread the workload out very evenly, the problem is there’s only 2 maybe 3 options of worth out there and their fighting for the Division……..There’s a fine line in balancing innings and winning games and playing in October….In the end, the mgr.s tail is on the line if there’s no October………Maybe some of the older managers in the game remember the days of Goose, Sparky, Sutter where they could logged 10 innings a week and still trot them out in October…….

  70. Pat M. June 28th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Patrick, very impressive, now why dodn’t you display the innings that the starting pitching logged ????/

  71. mick June 28th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Torre’s cool demeanor is a detriment. What looks like calm is complacency. Why the sudden outburst at the end of game 2? Donnie embarassed himself by mimicking Torre. I am glad he’s out, I couldn’t look at him anymore in the dugout. He lost his hunger and seems to have more important things on his mind other than baseball.

  72. tampayank June 28th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    “# vblade June 28th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Great post G Love, completely agree.

    Girardi is always accused of “overmanaging”, but he’s always got his bullpen arms’ long term health in the back of his mind in every pitching change. He finds a balance between winning games and keeping pitchers’ workload balanced.

    With Torre, it was always 3 guys overworked, and the rest rotting on the bench.

    very true. it gets frustrating for us fans on here that follow the team everyday w/ some of the bullpen decisions to give guys like Logan, etc a shot but he doesn’t overuse guys. Girardi trusts that the ballclub has the talent to make it to the postseason and he has the ballclub geared to being ready in October.

  73. mick June 28th, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    After that 10 pitch AB by Curtis, he deserves to DH for a week against rightys and lefties.
    That is what has been missing since Nick Johnson went down.
    Even Swisher and Jeter don’t have long AB’s anymore.

  74. Wave Your Hat June 28th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Torre should have brought in Sherrill to face Granderson and Curtis. It was an obvious move but one not allowed under current rules because the closer can’t be replaced mid-inning in modern baseball prior to total meltdown.

  75. G. Love June 28th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    My argument with Torre was that he never gave the guys he didn’t trust multiple chances. Once he decided you were trash, you were trash.

    Girardi, on the other hand, allows relievers who fail him to get additional opportunities and work their way out things.

    The only reliever I’ve seen Girardi not give that opportunity to is Melancon for some reason.

    By showing trust in the poor half of the pen, he sometimes gets productive outings from them thus saving people from too many appearances.

  76. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    I looked up how many full-time relievers Torre used (excluding Rivera) from 2002-2007 for more than 30 innings in a season. This would help show if how much flexibility he had in trotting out bullpen arms.

    2002: 5
    2003: 3
    2004: 4
    2005: 5
    2006: 4
    2007: 5

    In comparison, Girardi used 6 relievers for at least 30 IP in 2009, excluding Hughes and Aceves. Furthermore, no full time reliever had more than 60 IP. Torre never had a single year that a full time reliever didn’t log at least 75 IP.

  77. Pat M. June 28th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Edwar & Veras got the the club to the postseason

  78. Betsy - Hughes Rules (pleading the fifth) June 28th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Some dope Yankee fan called WFAN this morning complaining that the Yankees allow Mo to shag flies during BP……I thought I’d heard it all up until that point.

  79. G. Love June 28th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    I also want Colin Curtis to get some DH at bats.

    I haven’t seen much of him, but what I have seen I like. Also really loved how Huffman took that pitch to RF last night.

    Our bench is young, but last night they didn’t lose the game for us.

  80. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    So it looks like Aceves might have been overused but otherwise Girardi kept the usage pretty uniform.

    ——————–

    I think Ace made a few spot starts which increased his innings. Strictly out of the pen though, he probably logged the same average innings as all the other full time relievers that year.

  81. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    This season thus far is proving that the Yankees don’t need a bench of old veterans. They can give their AAA guys limited at bats and be fine. This would allow them to pursue a relief arm instead of a bench position player at the deadline.

  82. mick June 28th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Using the rookies off the bench, at least for the 1st 1/2 of the season, is a blessing in disguise. Gets them experience, shows a little of what they can do, on the job training. Who knows what could emerge.

  83. Betsy - Hughes Rules (pleading the fifth) June 28th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Absolutely, there’s a difference between lack of execution and lack of trying. The Yankees sometimes make me want to pull the hair out of my head with their at bats and I admit that I predicted that, yet again, they would go quietly until the 9th, when they would lamely try to come back. They actually completed the job last night, so great job; I hope to see more of that. The idea that this was the first time all year that they’d come back from 4 runs is somewhat disturbing…..

  84. LGY June 28th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Relievers are extremely unpredictable from year to year. They are not starters for a reason. They are flawed pitchers.

    The these guys Torre burned out were mediocre anyway and didn’t do anything after doesn’t really hold weight. If you look at relievers, you strike lighting in a bottle for a year or 2 and that’s it.

    How many middle relievers have had long and successful careers?

    The problem with Torre is two fold.

    When he strikes lightning, he burns that player to the ground to the point where he is ineffective later in the season/playoff time and he becomes so reliant on that player he has no idea what else he could have out there in the pen or even down in the minors.

    Bullpens are not really built on “talent” because you really have no clue how much talent you really have out there on a year to year basis.

    Once Torre found his “guys” he had no interest in finding out if there really was more talent out there or if there was a way to maximize the talent he had by creative usage of his player’s.

    It was a stubborn, uncreative, and shortsighted way to manage a bullpen. And it cost the Yankees come playoff time.

    Girardi is much better at balancing present and the future needs of the ballclub.

  85. Betsy - Hughes Rules (pleading the fifth) June 28th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    That said, I would never accuse the Yankees of not trying – just of not being smart.

  86. mick June 28th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    I heard this was the 22nd comeback win this year for the Yanks.

  87. Betsy - Hughes Rules (pleading the fifth) June 28th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    That line about ___ being the best there ever was and best there ever will be is actually from the Natural (a movie I hate to this day)….

    The Yankees have got to improve their pen, but I don’t know how to go about it. I don’t trust anyone except Mo, but where is trade help coming from?

  88. ac1 June 28th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    I think Swish may be due for a day off. Throw Curtis into RF. I think with Swish, he is still hitting, but his ABs are shorter, and he is swinging at bad pitches and that isnt like him. With this team, they can afford to give him a mental day off.

  89. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Pat M.,

    You’re killin me! This is taking way too much time, but I will do as you ask. However before I do, I think it doesn’t matter as much because the bottom line is, Torre rode 3 or 4 guys where he could have spread innings out among 7 guys like Girardi did. As I said, the talent in that 2008 and 2009 pens aren’t that much better than in previous years. Girardi just did a better job of keeping each guy’s workload down

    Give me a minute here…

  90. Wave Your Hat June 28th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    “Our bench is young, but last night they didn’t lose the game for us.”

    Give them time, G Love, and they will. The Mariners got Branyon for basically his salary. Branyon isn’t exactly what we need, but he would have been a good pickup while the Yanks are looking for a right handed bat.

  91. Bronx Jeers June 28th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    You want to save a bullpen?

    Have 5 starters that give you around 200 effective innings each.

  92. LGY June 28th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    And one more thing.

    Torre’s poor bullpen management is actually covered up to a large degree by Mariano.

    If he didn’t strike gold with a superhuman freak like Mo that could handle his abuse and still pitch like the best closer in the history of the game, I can only imagine what would have transpired with those bullpens.

  93. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    One could argue that the biggest impact the manager can have on a baseball game is deciding which guys to bring in from the bullpen. AKA bullpen management. Torre falling short in this area really hurt the team during the championship drought.

  94. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    I think Ace made a few spot starts which increased his innings. Strictly out of the pen though, he probably logged the same average innings as all the other full time relievers that year.

    He made one spot start and threw 3.1 innings. I removed that from his total. He pitched 80.2 innings out of the pen last year. Could be why he’s hurt this year.

  95. MTS June 28th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    The lreague would change the system so radically. You have to think about history. If you eject fewer players, then they play in more games. Over a 20 year career, very confrontational players could play in 60-80 more games. What would Babe Ruth have done with an extra three to four games per year in his early years? If we suppose he would have hit an extra two home runs in ’27, Maris might not have broken the record.

    If you just change the rules because of a couple games, you run the risk of making it impossible to
    compare players from different eras. In a world like that, how can you be sure that X desreves admission to the hall of fame?

  96. Betsy - Hughes Rules (pleading the fifth) June 28th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    GLove, perfectly said – I completely agree. Also, I do not think it’s a small thing to ruin careers, even if the pitchers we’re talking about were average and hardly stars. I think it’s a shame, actually.

  97. Tom in N.j. June 28th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    Aceves made 1 start of 3.1 innings last year.

  98. Roger(The Dutch Yankees Fan)Final 8!! June 28th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    Are you guys still expecting the Yankees to get some bulpen help?

  99. MTS June 28th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    The league would never change the system so radically.

  100. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    # Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    I think Ace made a few spot starts which increased his innings. Strictly out of the pen though, he probably logged the same average innings as all the other full time relievers that year.

    He made one spot start and threw 3.1 innings. I removed that from his total. He pitched 80.2 innings out of the pen last year. Could be why he’s hurt this year.

    ——————-

    Nice, my mistake then. 80 IP is a large workload for any reliever.

    The Yankees were blessed to have guys like Rivera, Stanton, Nelson, and Mendoza in the dynasty years, guys who were able to shoulder a heavy workload and stay healthy deep int the postseason.

    They weren’t so lucky once everyone other than Rivera retired, and Torre’s BP management issues were no longer being masked.

  101. pat June 28th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    A blogger from the LA Times believed some people here when they said the game was over before the 9th inning last night. :wink:

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.co.....dgers.html

  102. mick June 28th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    The Yankees were blessed to have guys like Rivera, Stanton, Nelson, and Mendoza in the dynasty
    ===================LLoyd and Weathers !!

  103. tampayank June 28th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    :)

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......id=9441023

  104. Betsy - Hughes Rules (pleading the fifth) June 28th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Torre had a doghouse,period. Girardi shows faith in his players and gives them chances…..Maybe they ‘ll fail, and if they do consistently, then fine. However, when you give people chances and actually allow them to fail without thinking the axe is hanging over their heads, it breeds confidence and gives that player a better chance to succeed. The Marlins’ players loved Joe – undoubtedly in part because of what I just described – and Yankee players love Joe……

  105. MaineYankee June 28th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Patrick

    I believe it was Big Al that said Ace has had back trouble for several years.

    I think he said he tried to work through it rather than tell Joe about it.

  106. Pat M. June 28th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Bullpen success is largely the by-product of the quality of the starting rotation……All these numbers being presented are nice, however lets get a more balanced account by going all the way back during Torre’s tenure and include 96-2003 when the club had a solid staff……All successful clubs that have consistent winning records year out and year in have 1-2 guys who log a wealth of the innings out of the pen……….Bottom line, relievers are like running backs, they have a short expiration date..It’s the nature of their occupation……Getting to October is all that matters guys, and for the most part clubs don’t wrap in up early, and then there’s the home field advantage aspect………I said back in Spring Training 09, that this Yankee club was the best since the 03 club, because the starters could go deep and the bullpen had depth , both in The Bronx and in the Minors……Lot’s of options and flexibility……..

  107. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    # pat June 28th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    A blogger from the LA Times believed some people here when they said the game was over before the 9th inning last night. :wink:

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.co…..dgers.html

    ———————

    That’s hilarious. Most of these guys probably had their story ready when Broxton trotted in to pitch the 9th. Don’t count your chickens before they hatch as the saying goes.

  108. JohnC June 28th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Good time for Arod to get hot with Lee and King Felix on deck the next 2 games

  109. Betsy - Hughes Rules (pleading the fifth) June 28th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    FYI

    http://www.rotoworld.com/

    Clay Buchholz has officially been diagnosed with a minor lower hamstring tear, not a hyperextended knee.
    The Red Sox will continue to run tests and monitor him this week before making any sort of decision about a roster change. Buchholz is confident that he will be fine for his next scheduled start, but manager Terry Francona probably won’t push him. We’d expect him to miss at least one outing

  110. Chip June 28th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    The Yankees aren’t going to trade for a relief pitcher – they’ll just wait for Aceves and Mitre to come back.

    Once that happens the innings that are going to Chan Ho Park will go to Aceves and Park will wind up mopping up.

    And depending on the status of Brett Gardner’s hand we may see Curtis get a lot of starts in LF for the forseeable future.

  111. Jerkface June 28th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Torre had more pitching and offense in every season than the yankees had in 08.

  112. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Starting pitching here we go..

    2004
    Vazquez – 198 IP
    Lieber – 176.2 IP
    Mussina – 164.2 IP
    Brown – 132.0 IP
    Contreras – 95.2 IP
    El Duque – 84.2 IP

    21 spot starts from 6 other guys

    2005
    Randy Johnson – 225.2 IP
    Mussina – 179.2 IP
    Wang – 116.1 IP
    Pavano – 100 IP
    Brown 73.1 IP
    Wright – 63.2 IP

    38 spot starts from 8 other guys

    2006
    Wang – 218 IP
    Johnson – 205 IP
    Mussina – 197.1 IP
    Wright – 140.1 IP
    Chacon – 63.0 IP

    26 spot starts from 7 other guys

    2007
    Pettitte – 215.1 IP
    Wang – 199.1 IP
    Moose – 152.0 IP
    Clemens – 99.0 IP
    Hughes – 72.2 IP
    Igawa – 67.2 IP

    29 spot starts from 8 other pitchers

    2008
    Pettitte – 204.0 IP
    Mussina – 200.1 IP
    Rasner 113.1 IP
    Wang 95.0 IP
    Ponson 80.0 IP

    33 spot starts from 7 other guys

    2009
    Sabathia – 230 IP
    Burnett – 207 IP
    Pettitte – 194.2 IP
    Chamberlain – 157.1 IP

    32 starts from 5 other pitchers

    Make of that what you will. I’m not going through all the spot starts..

  113. Pat M. June 28th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Bron Jeers, that is exactly what this is all about……….Know folks, do remember that Joe Giradi was accused of killing the Marlins young pitchers for over using them…..His job was once they were actually in the playoff hunt, was to do whatever it took to get to October…..It’s always been that way guys, or suddenly you’re unemployed……And Joe Giradi was then unemployed, but in fairness there were other bs reasons as well

  114. G. Love June 28th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Wave,

    I wasn’t suggesting that we stick with the kids all season as the bench. We’ll be able to do Hinske/Hairston type moves at the deadline and not have to give anything up.

    But last night, that young bench helped win the game. I really admired what Huffman and Curtis were able to do in that situation. ESPN Sunday night game, Yankees vs. Torre and those 2 young players put quality at bats together that melted Broxton down.

  115. blake June 28th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    I think a major difference in Torre and Girardi is Girardi’s willingness to decrease his chances of winning on a given day in order to ensure everyone stays healthy and rested for the long haul. That’s a luxury he has with a team he knows is good enough to make the playoffs even if its shorthanded a few days. Torre managed more to win every day, and Girardi takes more of a big picture approach.

    I’m not saying either way is right. The Yankees are better now than they were in the mid 2000s…had Torre not managed to win every day then they may have missed the playoffs all together some of those years.

  116. pat June 28th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    I thought Alex did the right thing approaching Torre last night but now I’m hearing that Skip Bayless and Wally Matthews think he did the right thing too, so I may have to re-think my position. :wink:

  117. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Pat M. June 28th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Bullpen success is largely the by-product of the quality of the starting rotation……All these numbers being presented are nice, however lets get a more balanced account by going all the way back during Torre’s tenure and include 96-2003 when the club had a solid staff……All successful clubs that have consistent winning records year out and year in have 1-2 guys who log a wealth of the innings out of the pen……….

    ——————————–

    All the way from 1996-2007, Torre used 3 or 4 relievers to pitch close to or over 75% of all possible relief innings. Not all pitchers respond well to heavy workloads like Stanton, Nelson, and Mendoza. Torre has the same BP management habits regardless of the quality of starting pitching that he was given, and the guys he overused outside of those three I mentioned were gassed by September, and of course, October.

  118. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Girardi had just as bad production from his starters in 2008 as he did in 2009. He also had a terrible bullpen in 2008 talent-wise yet he still did a great job spreading the work around and getting the most out of his guys. In 2008 Torre would have stuck with a few guys and burned them out.

  119. MaineYankee June 28th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Pat M

    Looks like your paddling upstream alone. :lol:

    One thing that some are forgetting is last year when the SP weren’t going deep into the game and the BP was being heavily used the BP was dreadful.

  120. mick June 28th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Man was Andy missed in 04-06!
    Imagine another 200 inngs in 06 and wouldn’t it have been different if we had him in 04?

  121. Patrick June 28th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Oops meant to say Girardi had just as bad production out of his starters in 2008 as Torre did throughout the drought of world series

  122. MaineYankee June 28th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    Chip

    When will you stop trying to replace Gardner?

  123. gfd June 28th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    NESN says not a single sox lead votes in the All Star Game, means they get to rest up and take over the first place Yankees. Their fan base isn’t even buying into that nonsense.

    Twins in running for Cliff, night be the winners, they have what Mariners want.

    Watched Kyle Farnsworth, and Wilson Betermit (KC) trounce the Cardinals 10-3 yesterday.
    Kyle never (if you can believe) gave up a run, Betermit is batting over .400!

  124. NumberOnePositivePosterInTheUniverse June 28th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Hi Betsy, Great win yesterday, right? I was really happy to see them comeback, I couldn’t fall back in asleep. Again we agree, this time on the bullpen. The Yanks definitely have to do something there, otherwise, we are screwed. Would you rather see another bat or more depth in the bullpen? I say, why not both? What’s your opinion, please, do share.

  125. Pat M. June 28th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    MaineYankee, I think your right, but basically this is more about the Joe Torre hatred than anything else…..Amazing how fresh the pen was in 09 when you have 3 starters logging in 200 innings…..I’m cetain you’ll see this to be true back during the Dynasty years when the starters provided 200 innings as well…….

  126. mick June 28th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Could Pat M be trying to say that Farnsworth, Sturtze and Proctor were not Stanton, Nelson and Mendoza.?

  127. vblade June 28th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Pat M. June 28th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Bron Jeers, that is exactly what this is all about……….Know folks, do remember that Joe Giradi was accused of killing the Marlins young pitchers for over using them…..His job was once they were actually in the playoff hunt, was to do whatever it took to get to October…..

    —————–

    Not to keep piling on, but the notion of Girardi overusing Marlins pitchers was way overblown.

    The Marlins finished 10 games out of the NL WC in 2006. Only Dontrelle Willis logged more than 200 IP in their starting rotation.

    He had 8 guys in the bullpen who had at least 30 IP, which is consistent with his balanced BP management, where he avoids overworking anyone.

    If there was one guy that may have had too many innings, it would be starter Scott Olsen, who logged 180 IP that year, after not having more than 20 IP in the majors prior to 2006. He also pitched 136 IP in 2004 in the minors, so it wasn’t like he hadn’t had any heavy workload at all as a pro. After 2006, he logged another 176 IP in 2007, and another 200 IP in 2008, so he clearly wasn’t really adversely affected by his usage in 2006.

  128. cameron June 28th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Last night had to feel like that 2004 team’s come from behind win over Torre’s team!

  129. Rob NY June 28th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Pat M — I agree with your point that after ’03 Joe T had some rotations that didn’t go deep into games but wouldn’t that suggest that Joe T should have been able to spread the extra innings around to more bodies? Point being that Joe G found more innings for his lesser relievers while winning over 100 games with less total innings because of a better rotation. That made sure his best guys were fresher with less workloads and that he had the second tier bullpen guys with enough innings to be effective in the post season. It’s all about October.

  130. blake June 28th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    I’m not going to argue the fact that Torre is a little hard on bullpens, because I think he is.

    However, how you manage bullpens is largely based on what kind of team you have. If Torre had spread the bullpen work around more in some of those years and not went with who he trusted and then missed the playoffs because of it, would that have been any better? If you get there at least you have a chance and I think that was Torre’s primary goal.

  131. ac1 June 28th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    NESN says not a single sox lead votes in the All Star Game, means they get to rest up and take over the first place Yankees. Their fan base isn’t even buying into that nonsense.
    ___

    HA. If that is what they are hangin onto they are in trouble. And i would be stunned if Buchholz didnt miss at least one start, same with Martinez. We know PEDDIE is out for 4-6 weeks and Ellsbury is out indefinitely. But even so, teams like Boston and NY find ways to win so we cant rest on them.

  132. mick June 28th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    I think Pat M is trying to say that Torre had little to work with after the glory years both starting, inning-wise, and relief.
    He milked what he had and tried to get guys to pitch over their heads,catch lightning in a bottle so to speak.

  133. MaineYankee June 28th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    There’s one thing that some seem to be forgetting in regards to some of the last Torre teams.

    They had to put the pedal to the metal in order to make the PO.

    I think that by doing that they didn’t have much left when it came to the PO.

  134. Pat M. June 28th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Rob in NY….Not only did he have a tattered rotation, his bullpen was for hunger……There was no minor league system to draw upon, the free agents were purchased were on fumes when the ink dried on their contracts and the remainder where castoffs…….It was a mess, and yeah he had to get them to October regardless…….It was a catch 22 all the way around

  135. Wave Your Hat June 28th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Girardi had more to work with in the bullpen than Torre had in the later years. Girardi had the advantage of a Yankee farm system that was beginning to roll out good relievers. Torre didn’t have that in the later years of his tenure.

  136. Pat M. June 28th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    I have to go, all I’m trying to do is offer an understanding as to how & why this all came about regarding Torre and the dead arms that were left behind…In many cases the arms were on life support when they arrived at spring training….Couple that with a weak rotation and it’s rather amazing that they made in to October……All this before Cashman rebuilt the organization from within, Torre didn’t have that luxury

  137. RS June 28th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Aceves threw a lot of innings last year but part of that was because he was so efficient with his pitch count. He could throw 2 innings on 20 pitches or 4 innings on 35 pitches. Which is a lot different than someone like Scott Proctor, who issued a ton of walks and had high pitch counts to go along with his large number of innings pitched.

  138. Rob NY June 28th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    I don’t disagree with you Pat M. He had some god awful pitching on those teams. I don’t dislike Joe I just think he could have found some innings (when his starters were only going 5 innings) for the lesser relievers. But don’t think I’m saying he had a lot to work with. When you’re best setup man is Kyle Farnsworth for $7 million dollars you are in trouble.

  139. Comet June 28th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    “NumberOnePositivePosterInTheUniverse” lay off Betsy!

  140. rover June 28th, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    When you play in a town where mediocrity is unacceptable and losing is worse. When the chips are down “what have you done for me lately”? Looms heavy in the dark. Relievers are often guys who have enough mechanical problems that they are never considered able to start. Mechanical issues will ruing backs, shoulders, arms, elbows you name it.

  141. Carl June 28th, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    This ump is so bad


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