Pitching matchups vs. Seattle
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 29, 2010 
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Tonight
RHP Phil Hughes (10-1, 3.17)
vs.
LHP Cliff Lee (6-3, 2.39)
7:05 p.m., MY9
Wednesday
RHP Javier Vazquez (6-6, 5.16)
vs.
RHP Felix Hernandez (5-5, 3.28)
7:05 p.m., YES Network
Thursday
LHP CC Sabathia (9-3, 3.49)
vs.
TBA
1:05 p.m., YES Network
After having his previous start skipped in an effort to cut down on his innings, Phil Hughes will return to the Yankees rotation tonight against Cliff Lee, who based on everything I’ve read, has already been pencilled in as the Yankees Game 2 starter in the ALDS.
Associated Press photo of Sabathia
Nice article that pat referenced in the WSJ, about Mike Harkey blowing out his shoulder while a ROY pitcher for the Cubs. Starting catcher on that team reported as this guy named Girardi.
No wonder they’re being careful with Phil. They don’t have to look far for the potential risk of not doing so.
Nice reference, Chad, to the tentative Game 2 ALDS starter….
“After having his previous start skipped in an effort to cut down on his innings, Phil Hughes will return to the Yankees rotation tonight against Cliff Lee, who based on everything I’ve read, has already been pencilled in as the Yankees Game 2 starter in the ALDS.”
“After having his previous start skipped in an effort to cut down on his innings, Phil Hughes will return to the Yankees rotation tonight against Cliff Lee, who based on everything I’ve read, has already been pencilled in as the Yankees Game 2 starter in the ALDS.”
lol nice.
it’s gotten that crazy around here huh? glad i took a few days off to sit back and enjoy the team we have.
2 outta 3 will be just fine considering we’re facing Lee and Felix
Wow, a lot of great pitching in this series. Save for Javy and whoever TBA turns out to be in the 3rd game for Seattle.
Of course, going 288 pitches in 2 starts, and then going on short rest when the team went to a 4 man rotation might have had something to do with Harkey’s injury. I think there is quite a lot of room between that kind of abuse and imposing Joba rules on Hughes that are so draconian as to completely disrupt his development.
“I think there is quite a lot of room between that kind of abuse and imposing Joba rules on Hughes that are so draconian as to completely disrupt his development.”
Since they haven’t told anyone, including Phil, what the “rules” on him will be, how do you know they are going to be draconian and disruptive?
2 outta 3 will be just fine considering we?re facing Lee and Felix
–
The mariners defense is so dreadful that I think expecting a sweep wouldn’t be too much, considering that for Felix or Lee to make any impact the mariners have to score runs.
I meant offense.
Nice to sit back and see TAM and BOS beat up on each other for a change.
Chad I thought that Roland-Smith was listed as the game 3 starter vs CC. Has that changed?
Vblade-
“Nice to sit back and see TAM and BOS beat up on each other for a change.”
Like a couple of drunken sailors on shore leave who have run out of money and cigarettes.
It’s a can’t lose proposition.
Today’s Guess the Line Up is Open for Business.
I’ll accept lineups until 3:15 or until an official lineup is posted.
I’m on my way out to lunch, but will catch up with y’all before that time.
Good luck.
HI Doreen – Hope your all-girl trip is going well. Safe driving to you.
jeter ss
swish rf
tex 1b
alex 3b
cano 2b
posada dh
granderson cf
cisco c
huffman lf
YMH p
While Lee is at the stadium we can have the Yankee tailor measure him for his Pinstripes.
Seems practical.
MTU (aka GBURL) June 29th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
While Lee is at the stadium we can have the Yankee tailor measure him for his Pinstripes.
—–
He could just wear Boone Logan’s pants.
GF-
You’re way smarter than me.
pat: I think not disclosing the rules to Hughes is very disruptive. If they trust him to take the ball in big games, then they should trust him with a little bit of information. Everyone wants to be able to plan their lives; almost everyone does better on some routine. As far as I can see, they’re just playing mind games with him, the same way they played mind games with Joba. It backfired big time with respect to Joba. But the Yanks have screwed up many a young player before, and they’ll do it again, I’m sure. I just hope they aren’t doing it to Hughes.
GF-
But then again, What would Joba wear ?
And if Joba and Lee both take Logan’s pants what the heck does Logan wear ?
And so on.
Number 2? Not number 1?
While the M’s are in town AJ is gonna invite Lee over to Hacienda so they can suck down a few brewski’s, talk hillbilly, watch a flick and talk about the good ole times of good ole boys back in Arkansas.
Shortly after which they will both proabably pass out.
Between that and the massive Yankee dollars Lee will be hooked like a big mouth Bass.
Poor Japan loses to Paraguay on a single missed penalty kick after 120+ minutes of scoreless futbol.
Will Ichiro be distracted and depressed tonight or will be come out seeking revenge on a cruel and unfair world?
Nick-
He should take one for his Country and just do himself in the lockeroom. It’s easy to replace the carpet at the stadium
Moonshine is the preferred beverage among “Hillbillies”
And they won’t be watching a movie. More than likely it will be a NASCAR dvd or reruns of “The Dukes Of Hazard”
Hi Doreen,
I was going to check and see if Russo is still on the team, but I desided they won’t play him over Cervelli anyway…
Jeter-SS
Swisher-RF
Tex-1B
Arod-3b
Cano-2b
Posada-DH
Granderson-CF
Cervelli-C
Huffman-LF
Bronx-
I stand corrected.
A quick update on Chien-Ming Wang
Chien-Ming Wang’s debut for the Nationals remains most likely at least one month away. While the Nationals originally hoped Wang might be able to pitch in May, he has experienced no setbacks and prefers the precautionay stance the team has used in his recovery from shoulder surgery, said Alan Nero, one of Wang’s representatives and the managing director of Octagon’s baseball division.
Wang is throwing simulated innings every two or three days and is scheduled to appear in the majors in late July or early August, Nero said. Wang last pitched in the majors July 12 of last year for the New York Yankees.
The long rehab in Viera, Fla.’s stifling weather has been a grind, but Wang is “doing quite well,” Nero said. Last week, the Nationals allowed Wang a three-day break from rehab in Viera so he could visit his family in New Jersey.
“He’s been incredibly positive,” Nero said. “With the Yankees, there was never a complete understanding of the injury. The conservative approach the Nationals have taken has been outstanding.”
By Adam Kilgore | June 22, 2010; 1:38 PM ET
The Yankees are not going to pay twice for Cliff Lee.
Haven’t we learned how Cash works by now?
The Yankees had a lot bigger problems in the rotation lasts year and still didn’t go for a big ticket starter.
I still think it’s less then 50/50 they go after him hard in the off season if Andy comes back.
Nero must be kidding, or a fool, or whatever.
“There was never an understanding of the injury”. Excuse me. Come again.
Nobody understood the Nature of Wang’s injury better than the Yankees. Nobody. What a dork.
Is there any chance the Red Sox will go after Lee? If they are, then the Yankees will be in it, too.
Cliff Lee is a no brainer. Even if Pettitte does come back – the just let go of Javy. Lee is proven himself in the AL, AL East and playoffs. Cash will pursue him hard.
Ichiro’s quick and unorthodox approach to seppuku will have him in the afterlife before his intestines hit the ground.
# MTU (aka GBURL) June 29th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Nero must be kidding, or a fool, or whatever.
“There was never an understanding of the injury”. Excuse me. Come again.
Nobody understood the Nature of Wang’s injury better than the Yankees. Nobody. What a dork.
———————–
I don’t know about the understanding of the injury, but the Yankees FO botched Wang’s rehab badly, taking him off the DL and sticking him in the bullpen as a desperation move at a time when he could have used more rehab stints in AAA to determine the extent of his issues, health or otherwise.
Lee has never been in the AL East.
Cash and Randy Levine did an interview with the NYTimes last evening, at the newspaper’s conference center. (Open to the public, but I couldn’t make it – darn!)
Cash was reported as saying that he was happy with the club’s pitching, and would focus on the bench.
Now, that may have been an accurate reflection of his thoughts, or it could have been a negotiating tactic; who knows? And we have no idea of who’s been on his speed dial. And we will not find out about any things he worked on that didn’t pan out.
I guess we’ll only find out if a particular deal goes down.
I’ve seen disaster scenes that look better than the Sox. They have more to worry about than Lee and that’s even if they were interested which they probably aren’t.
They are screwed.
The Sox may be in it just to drive up the price. With Beckett, Buccholtz, Lester, Lackey and DiceK locked in for long term deals, the red sox have no room for Lee.
I’m thinking that’s probably not the most flattering picture of C.C. out there.
Vblade-
I think we’re talking post-injury condition not pre-injury, no ?
Not in – proven himself against.
I agree, I don’t see the Red Sox trading for Lee. Besides, they need their chips for other, more pressing needs – c, 2b, of, bullpen.
GTLU- Winner
Jeter SS
Swisher RF
Tex 1B
Arod 3b
MVPCano 2b
Posada DH
Granderson CF
Velli C
Huffy LF
Hughes is re energized and out duels Lee tonight 8 strong, 10 Ks, 4hits allowed
Regarding Lee, it depends on who they would have to give up. If the look to get him next season it means giving up draft picks, if they get him now it makes them much more formidable. Imagine that rotation with Lee added in.
# MTU (aka GBURL) June 29th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Vblade-
I think we’re talking post-injury condition not pre-injury, no ?
———–
Yeah this was when he came off the DL the first time. He was supposed to make a few starts in AAA to see how his shoulder would respond, but he wasn’t able to make those starts because the brass called him up in a desperation move to add a bullpen arm.
As we all know, he ended up rotting in the bullpen for a while, pitched eventually, and found out the hard way that he needed season ending surgery.
That’s not exactly the same. It’s one thing to pitch against the Red Sox or the Yankees or the Rays while he was with the Indians and another to pitch against them in big, big pressure filled series in August and September.
With that said, I don’t think Lee will do poorly. I think he has proven that he can pitch in the biggest spotlight already in that WS last year.
I am for getting him (although not giving up too much).
Vblade-
I am talking about the Yankees evaluation of Wang’s injury after surgery, and what it would take to get him back to form.
Unless I am mistaken I think that is what Nero is saying the Yanks did not fully understand.
GTLU
SS Jeet
RF Swish
1B Tex
DH Alex
2B Robbie
C Po
CF Grandy
LF Huffman
3B Pena
thanks Doreen
As for mid-season trade for Lee, I would think they’d have to give up hitters and their farm system isn’t exactly lined with good hitters. Jed Lowrie and Jocoby Ellsbury are on the DL or are injured and have sub value, I don’t see how the Sox have anything in their farm that they can put together for a package that would get them Lee. And even if they did, who do they displace on the rotation? Dice K, Beckett and Lackey are expensive and aren’t going to the pen. Buccholtz and Lester are good pitchers on the cheap side of things and aren’t getting traded. So unless the Sox, A) find good prospects that the Mariners are looking for (of whom I can’t think of many), and B) trade away a starter – but I can’t see that happening since both Beckett and Buccholtz have injuries, Lackey is crazy expensive and has 4 1/2 years left on his contract, Dice K is also expensive, and Lester is just crazy good. I don’t see how the Sox can be in on Lee without eating some significant salary and trading a good starter to boot on top of trading away some of their top flight positional prospects (if they have any).
# MTU (aka GBURL) June 29th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Vblade-
I am talking about the Yankees evaluation of Wang’s injury after surgery, and what it would take to get him back to form.
Unless I am mistaken I think that is what Nero is saying the Yanks did not fully understand.
———————————
Well, I do think they botched his rehab by calling him up too early, and sticking him as a long man in the bullpen instead of taking the time to see if he really was completely healthy.
So in that regard, I agree with Nero. But I sincerely doubt that the Yankees didn’t know what the injury was, and what needed to be done. IMO what they did wrong was the panic move of calling him back up too soon before he had all the necessary rehab starts.
Let me simplify this a bit.
The Sox are not getting Cliff Lee. Period. Not now. Not ever.
Maybe not exactly the same, but his performance IN the world series against the Yankees was nothing short of fantastic. He’s worth the change $$. I would think nothing short of Montero or Romine would start the bidding. And that’s not including other chips as well.
Ouch.
Honestly, guys, we need to take a step back when we, as a fan base, complain about these Hughes Rules.
He is 10-1 for us with a 3.17 ERA and we’re not even at the All Star Break. That’s just awesome. Let’s not play around with that. He hasn’t thrown many innings in past years and it won’t hurt to skip him now and then. I’d much rather have a rested Hughes than one who is pitching with a tired arm from time to time.
The Yankees are handling this beautifully, balancing their “win now” attitude and their focus on the future.
Hughes won’t be deterred by one or two skipped starts. He’ll be fine.
Vblade-
That is another issue entirely, and in that regard I totally agree with you but I do not think that is what Nero is referring to. And if I am right in my interpretation then my statements about him stand.
Total Dork.
GTLU
Jeter SS
Swisher RF
Tex 1B
Alex 3B
Cano 2B
Posada DH
Granderson CF
Cervelli C
Huffman LF
Jeter SS
Swisher RF
Tex 1B
Alex 3B
Cano 2B
Posada DH
Granderson CF
Cervelli C
Huffman LF
# MTU (aka GBURL) June 29th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Vblade-
That is another issue entirely, and in that regard I totally agree with you but I do not think that is what Nero is referring to. And if I am right in my interpretation then my statements about him stand.
Total Dork.
——————
If Nero thinks the Yankees didn’t know what was going on with Wang’s injury, he’s a bloody idiot. The Yankees have one of the best medical staffs around, and have a good history of taking care of their injured players.
Still, I do expect some bitterness from Nero after the botched rehab and the potential millions of dollars lost for him and his client because of the events of the last 2 years. He was going to be paid a lot of money – back to back 19 game winner with a sparkling ERA for the Yankees, in the toughest division in baseball.
Within a blink of an eye, it was all gone and he was back to the veteran’s minimum trying to make a last place team’s roster in the NL.
Nero is just speaking as an agent spurned. I wonder how the Nationals really feel about Wang, as he was “supposed” to be pitching late May.
I don’t wish Wang ill, and think he was a tremendous member of the Yankees, but his injuries were tough. His shoulder injury is and should be a concern to any club.
“Hughes won’t be deterred by one or two skipped starts.”
He isn’t going to be deterred by anything. He is on the fast train to greatness.
Hi Doreen,
Here is my line-up:
Derek SS
Swisher RF
Tex 1B
Alex DH
Robbie 2B
Posada C
Granderson CF
Huffman LF
Pena 3B
Thanks and enjoy your vacation
Chris
They’ve said the limitations on Hughes will be nothing like they were on Joba.
There will be no 3 or 4 inning outings. If he takes the mound as a starter he will go 5+ as long as he is pitching well in the game.
vblade, I agree. Pitchers are probably the most vulnerable to having their careers cut short as well. I think Nero also wasn’t pleased by the Yankees not offering up a long term deal and went to arbitration instead, and they balked at his asking price and won.
Vblade-
I think you are spot on about how Nero felt about the Yankees.
I loved Wang. Understated and often underappreciated by some.
Hope he can make it back.
Nothing to do with Nero and the Yankees. That got more personal than it should have IMO.
It was a very sad situation but we have to move on.
Joba was part of the cause for them to go to the 3-4 inning outings. It was after he did poorly after being skipped that they thought it might be better to keep him to schedule but limit the pitches by shorter games. Joba then worked hard at throwing his pitch count in the first couple of innings.
I fully agree with the Yankees on looking to protect Hughes with the innings limitation, my only concern is that he shows rust when he returns which hurts his confidence.
Tonight will be interesting to see how Hughes handles the longer rest period. It might actually be a good thing for him, as he wasn’t pitching quite as well as in the beginning of the season.
Hey guys!
Sorry if this has been rehashed, but:
While it’s frustrating that Young Master Phil (or is it YM Hughes?) has to sit occasionally, I do believe it’s the right thing. He’s going to be a huge part of this team’s long-term future and, as such, you do what you can to protect him. Some would say teams baby their pitchers now, but what’s the big deal in skipping a few starts if it saves wear and tear on the arms?
I think this will be similar to the Angel’s game, where Phil came out throwing hard but his command was slightly of. I think it might be more than slightly off tonight as he’s going to be completely pumped up. If he can get through the first couple of innings, he should be ok. It’s hot and humid and the ball will be carrying; Phil has given up some HRs recently, so maybe he’ll want to throw some 2 seamers?
I saw someone posted the Harkey article – I read that a couple of days ago. I had no idea Harkey was such a good prospect; no matter what he says, 160 pitches is abuse.
Pat: You said they “haven?t told anyone, including Phil, what the ?rules? on him will be …”. You can’t have it both ways; either they’ve told somone, or they haven’t.
Not telling Phil is disruptive to Phil and to the team.
Pat: You said they “haven?t told anyone, including Phil, what the ?rules? on him will be …”. You can’t have it both ways; either they’ve told somone, or they haven’t.
Not telling Phil is disruptive to Phil and to the team.
Wang was my favorite player and I followed him as soon as he came up with Cano, and he really was a class act, and a pride of a nation. I was pretty distraught about the way the Yankees appeared to bounce around his rehab stints, knowing full well that most injured pitchers usually take their time getting back to the big leagues. Shoulder injuries are a difficult situation for any pitcher, and I really do wish him the best.
Wang was the Yankee ace when the team really needed one. He distinguished himself as an ambassador of the game to Taiwan, and along with Matsui really solidified the Asian market for the Yankees. Despite his sketchy playoff record, you never got the sense that he ever lollygagged it out there and it looked like he was always giving it all he had, even up till the time he was being called upon as a long man with a bum shoulder at the very end.
I hope he makes it back at 100% and it is my fervent hope to see that bowling ball sinker baffling hitters again.
What trust? It has nothing to do with not trusting Phil; they don’t want to give Phil too much information because then he’s going to start thinking too much. Joe wants him to prepare as normally as he can for a start without thinking that he’s going to be yanked early (he won’t) or that he won’t be able to get on a roll because of the limits.
Whatever Hughes does tonite good or bad has no effect on his long term ability, or in his eventual success. As long as he stays healthy IMO opinion you can bank on it.
It’s just one game. If he’s off he’s off. The skip was required. I hope he cuts thru Seattle’s lineup like a hot knife thru butter but ultimately it really doesn’t matter.
I’ll take ten more just like him please.
Hughes is 10-1 and the Yankees have the best record in baseball.
How exactly is it being disruptive to him and the team? The evidence suggests otherwise.
No team tells their pitchers their innings limits because they don’t want that thought in their heads when they take the mound.
That would be disruptive to both the pitcher and the team.
Phil has a good head on his shoulders; he’ll be fine.
Someone on another board said that Phil used to pitch basically once every two weeks in Trenton; If that’s true, the Yankees really went overboard – he’s a pitcher, not a china doll. His point was that Phil handled it all beautifully. I do think he could get disrupted if they do this a lot and he’s continually being yanked out of the rotation, but I don’t think it will be that bad. As Joe said on the Joe Girardi show, they play fewer games in the 2nd half.
Betsy-
If you aren’t worried about Phil then nobody should be.
Well, I wouldn’t say I’m not quite worried, MTU. I think the fatigue factor and pitching against AL East teams multiple times could come into play. I’m tempering my expectations for the 2nd half, that’s all.
Since the Yanks had access to all of Wang’s medicals after the most recent shoulder injury, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me that Nero was referring to that.
Either way, the Yankee organization did not distinguish itself with the way they handled Wang. What a waste.
It’s a cold business and I’m not going to say they didn’t do the prudent thing after the shoulder surgery, but the whole affair is a black mark on recent Yankee history.
Right now Hughes has 82 IP. He has 3 starts including tonight before the ASG. If his first post ASG start is 7/21(5th game after break) and he pitched every 5th game he’d get 14 starts after the ASG. That’s a total of 17 more starts this year. 17 x 6 IP per start plus his current 82 IP = about 184 IP. Not really a problem. Maybe they skip him one time, two at the most after the ASG.
how did the poster do that crazy quote thing up there at 12:37?
Hughes is slowly developing into an ace. He doesn’t need to know his innings limitation. He just needs to go out and pitch.
I need to get another cup of coffee, I totally slept on the obvious “Nero says Yanks fiddled while Wang burned” joke.
More on this Cliff Lee stuff. The Phillies screwed up; they should have kept Lee for another year and got the draft choices in 2011. Their pitching is average and it could have been great.
I’m not really sure about what the Dodgers would have to offer, but Lee could put them back on top in the NL west.
What other teams will make a run at him?
As for the Yankees, will they be adding a better RH bat than Thames?
My guess is that he’s going to get a bout 2 weeks to prove himself once he comes off the DL.
From seeing Reed Johnson play last series in LA, it looks like the Yanks should have signed him rather than Winn.
The only thing I find unfortunate about skipping over Phil’s last start is that now when I go to this Friday’s game, instead of seeing Pettitte I get to see the rematch of AJ vs. the Canadian bomb squad.
Their last match up marked the onset of AJ’s month of mayhem.
And don’t forget folks that Friday is a day game so set your watches accordingly.
# Nick in SF in Sacramento June 29th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Since the Yanks had access to all of Wang’s medicals after the most recent shoulder injury, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me that Nero was referring to that.
Either way, the Yankee organization did not distinguish itself with the way they handled Wang. What a waste.
It’s a cold business and I’m not going to say they didn’t do the prudent thing after the shoulder surgery, but the whole affair is a black mark on recent Yankee history.
——————————-
Wang had the Lisfranc injury running the bases at Minute Maid Park, as we all know, and then overcompensating for the injured foot, which apparently was never fully healed, contributed to the deterioration of his pitching shoulder.
He also had back to back 200 IP seasons during the 19 win campaigns, plus playoff innings. He had never thrown more than 116 IP at any pro level before those seasons. That could have been a factor in shoulder fatigue as well.
Add to that the botched rehab sessions, and the panic call-up that eventually landed him on the DL for the entirety of the 2008 season, and it was just too lethal a combination of events to come back from.
I don’t blame the Yankees for anything that happened, other than the panic call-up that was the death knell for Wang’s Yankee career. Putting a still rehabbing pitcher as a long man in the bullpen just for insurance was a really ill-advised decision on the Yankees’ part.
NYYROC, that makes sense. I thought the Yankees said they were going to take stressful/non-stressful innings into account. Phil has had a lot more non-stressful innings than he has had stressful…………..that has to come into play.
RMS, I agree. Let the Yankees deal with that stuff and not burden the kid with too much info.
SS Derek Jeter
RF Nick Swisher
1B Mark Teixeira
3B Alex Rodriguez
2B Robinson Cano
DH Jorge Posada
CF Curtis Granderson
C Francisco Cervelli
LF Chad Huffman
The Yankee “Brain Trust” chose to skip Taiwan on the recent World Series trophy Asian tour.
Not exactly a Profile in Courage.
There’s this blogger, Steve Lombardi at Was Watching, who absolutely has a thing against Hughes, lol – he’s sort of like what Michael Kay was.
I expect to see many A-Bombs and Tex Messages this homestand
Later!
Curious to see how Phil throws after his extended rest. Seattle has the best one-two pitching combo in the history of terrible baseball teams.
I don’t buy all the “disruption” nonsense either way as far as mental approach is concerned. The real challenge is figuring out how to have himself ready physically when he has these extended breaks.
Tonight starts an interesting stretch with the Yanks having a chance to extend from the Sawx with all their physical problems.
Doreen…. here’s a GTLU
SS Jeter
DH Swisher
1B Teixiera
3B Rodriguez
2B Cano
C Posada
CF Granderson
RF Huffman
LF Gardner
well, at least it’s creative!
# Nick in SF in Sacramento June 29th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
The Yankee “Brain Trust” chose to skip Taiwan on the recent World Series trophy Asian tour.
Not exactly a Profile in Courage.
——————
Not shocked. I can’t speak for an entire nation, but it’s probable that the Yankees have a black eye in Taiwan right now with the whole botched rehab thing.
Wang was a national hero there, sort of like Ichiro is. If the Mariners screwed up in a similar manner with Ichiro, they wouldn’t want to go back to Japan too.
Wonder how sharp Phil will be in the early going of tonight’s outing………I still say that the Yanks were responsible for Wang’s shoulder issues …..During that winter ( 2009 ) he sat around and did nothing in the way of conditioning……When he reported to camp that spring, he was terribly out of shape, as he lacked core and back strength……There was an epic discussion one evening here , led by Randy I ( The Original Tin Cup ) , CB , GB and a few others …..Randy pointed out how Wang’s arm angle and release slot had changed from the previous season………Miss Tin Cup’s comments this season
The Yankees asked Wang to cut down on his offseason conditioning in an attempt to reduce stress on his injured foot. The result was a weakened shoulder that wasn’t ready for the rigors of a regular season workload.
I don’t blame the Yankees for trying to take it easy on Wang, but that approach clearly backfired badly.
In all fairness though, they tried to go to Taiwan but were turned away at customs when Levine and Trost could not provide documentation proving that they weren’t “the human embodiment of avian and swine flu respectfully…”
Is CC delivering a pitch or a baby?
Wang’s problems were beyond conditioning. He was so bad when he started that you have to wonder if he already had shoulder problems coming into the season. It’s a sad case all the way around, the guy was such a stud pitcher. It’s been so long now, you have to wonder if he will ever come back to being the type of pitcher he was.
Chris
All I can tell you is what Girardi said.
He said they haven’t told Hughes his innings limit or the tentative schedule of when they might skip a start but he will be getting all his starts between now and the AS break.
He said they told him to just focus on getting ready for his next start and not focus on a start that may or may not happen 8 weeks from now. He said he won’t have a predetermined innings limit once a game starts and as long as he’s pitching well, he’ll stay in.
vblade, I am…aware of Wang’s status in Taiwan.
Pity I can’t post a link right now…
Lineup:
SS Jeter
RF Swisher
1B Teixeira
3B Rodriguez
2B Cano
DH Posada
CF Granderson
C Cervalli
LF Huffman
It’s just his first 7 pro games and it’s just the rookie short season Gulf Coast league, but Gary Sanchez is BEASTING.
Another HR today.
That’s .423 avg, 3 HR, 3 2B, and a 1:1 SO/K ratio (5 each), 11 RBI and like a 1.350 OPS.
And he turns 18 in December.
Expect the Montero comparisons to begin in earnest presently.
# Noreaster June 29th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Wang’s problems were beyond conditioning. He was so bad when he started that you have to wonder if he already had shoulder problems coming into the season. It’s a sad case all the way around, the guy was such a stud pitcher. It’s been so long now, you have to wonder if he will ever come back to being the type of pitcher he was.
—————–
I believe that was the problem – the lack of conditioning led directly to a weak shoulder at the start of the season. The aforementioned lack of offseason work was mandated by the Yankees to relieve stress on his foot. I’m not sure where they got that medical opinion from, but it clearly didn’t work at all.
Jeter SS
Swisher RF
tex 1B
Arod 3B
Cano 2B
Posada DH
Grandy CF
Cervi C
Curtis LF
Mariners offense is not terrible… Ichiro is one of the best hitters in the game. Figgins always kills us. Lopez is solid. Branyan is a very dangerous hitter… he hit a HR off Hughes when he came here with the Indians earlier. Kotchman is a solid player.
Stuckey-
They threw 3 million large at him. I am sure they have high hopes for him.
He should be a fun one to follow.
If news were to get out that the Redsox (with all the money coming off the books next year) were hell bent on signing Cliff Lee next offseason and they were not going to let anyone outbid them (like what they did with DiceK) – would that change anyone’s mind that it may be a good idea to trade for lee now and hopefully sign him to a contract before he gets to free agency?
and of course since its all speculation lets just say that the redsox won’t be able to trade for him now because they don’t have the prospects – regardless of peter gammons preaching of how well stocked the redsox farm is.
“Expect the Montero comparisons to begin in earnest presently.”
Hoepfully he will hit better in AAA in 2012 than Montero is….
The Sox have 4 starters signed to long term contracts and Laptop pitching well. They have no room for Lee unless they are going to trade Laptop.
Jeter SS
Swisher RF
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Cano 2B
Posada DH
Cervelli C
Granderson CF
Huffman LF
Yes, the Mariners offense is terrible. It’s at or near the bottom in most important offensive categories.
Laptops is having a pretty good season. Still, I see them taking a step or two back during this rougher part of their schedule.
just for arguments sake – Laptop and one of their relievers to arizona for montero and stephen drew (taking care of their catcher and ss needs as well)
“Mariners offense is not terrible”
Worst in the AL.
Jeter SS
Swisher RF
Teixeira 1B
ARod 3B
Cano 2B
Posada DH
Cervelli C
Granderson CF
Huffman LF
(Wow, we need another bat! It’s sad when you DH Posada so that you can get Cervelli’s bat into the lineup).
that’s the worse two cents ever spent.
Buchholz has proven that he’s more than capable of pitching well in this division. That’s not something you trade away. Would we trade Phil Hughes for fill-ins?
“Expect the Montero comparisons to begin in earnest presently.”
Hoepfully he will hit better in AAA in 2012 than Montero is….
—————–
As fans, we’ll be very lucky if Sanchez is even in AAA when he’s 20.
vblade June 29th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
Laptops is having a pretty good season. Still, I see them taking a step or two back during this rougher part of their schedule.
===========================================================
Agreed, the Sox schedule turns nasty in July. This is the one time they want to be a full strength and they won’t be. If they can stay within 5 games of the Yankees they will be doing well.
Boston isn’t going to move for Lee. Period.
Lee isn’t going to negotiate before going to FA, and he’s proven that several times. Unless a team steps up and gives him CC money, which they won’t, he isn’t signing. Any team that trades for him knows that, and has to take the chance that he may walk to wherever he wants to play 6 mos from now.
Boston is going to make a move, but it’s going to be for a hitter or bullpen help, but you can be sure they’re not moving Bard or Buchholz without getting back one of the big names being floated out there.
Buchholz, like Hughes, is a one or two starter on most teams in baseball at this point. Teams don’t trade that.
I do not understand the obsession some people have with the Sox.
They are running on fumes have pulled multiple rabbitts out of their hats, and have just about run out of luck. Their ship is taking on heavy water.
They are in a very tough portion of their schedule having lost their 2b, and most of their starting OF among other things.
They can’t keep their pitching staff healthy.
Why do people continue to worry about them ?
I don’t see that there is much chance they can maintain their position with all of this.
If they do it will be nothing short of miraculous.
And I just don’t think they have a miracle coming their way.
If you choose to believe that be my guest.
Agreed, the Sox schedule turns nasty in July. This is the one time they want to be a full strength and they won?t be. If they can stay within 5 games of the Yankees they will be doing well.
I agree.
MTU – what do you base all of this on?
I still argue, they’re coming into a rough stretch, but they’ve hardly pulled “rabbits”. They beat the teams they were supposed to beat. A week ago, you talked about how bad off they’d be when they faced Ubaldo, Sanchez, and Lincecum. They walked out of that doing just fine.
They’re a good team. That’s why people worry about them. Sleeping on them is silly, bud.
Would we trade Phil Hughes for fill-ins?
********************
If you have no one in the minors to catch or play shortstop – and the only viable catcher is victor martinez whom you’d have to pay 15 million dollars for 5 years to hold on to then i’d say you may have no choice but to trade from a position that you are well stocked in – pitching.
Drew and Montero for laptop isn’t as bad a deal as you may think – they’ll get their catcher and SS which they have been looking for for years – and if you replace cliff lee for laptop (a much better trade off) then you’d still have loads of cash for crawford and another hitter to replace ortiz
Culver was 3-3 with a run scored and a stolen base. Hitting .313 in in 4 games, 16 at bats (6 jits). Not bad at 17 yrs old and just starting his career.
Bryan Mitchell had a line of: 4 innings, 1, 0 runs, 1 walk, 1 strikeout. Comsiderab;y better than his first start last week.
Zumaya out for the rest of the season with a non-displaced fracture of the olecranon (elbow).
Having the midget and dead-arm Victor out six weeks will really hurt their offense in the uglier part of their schedule. We should be wary of them still, but worried, not so much.
mariners are throwing their top 2 pitchers to begin the series. not the best luck in the world, but maybe we can win 1 of those 2 games. that would be a victory.
YankeesWFAN Same night Joe West returns to Yankee Stadium, John Isner will throw out 1st pitch. Will West call Isner pathetic and embarrassing?
Aaron-
I base it on the number of injuries they have sustained to their starters and to the fact that the likes of McDonald, Nava, and Reddick are not likely to be able to keep up what they have been doing.
Now they have lost Pedroia. How are they gonna make up for that loss.
I am not sleeping on the Sox but I just can’t see any team that is as snakebit as the Sox are holding steady.
They may be able to beat the odds for a while but sooner or later I expect them to sink.
They have done well to have lasted this long but I personally do not expect it to last and I do not fear them in their present configuration.
Poor Zoom Zoom.
I need them to be a .500 team by the end of the season.
Step up, Johnny and Ajax!
that’s your choice, but I just don’t think they’ll lose as much ground as some people think they will, and I also think they’re going to make the move they need to. However that works out is completely unknown, but I think everyone here knows they’re not just going to sit around and do nothing. I liken this to a bunch of Red Sox fans sitting around downplaying NY because of injuries and tough schedule. It’s rediculous to think they they’re just going to fade into the night because we’d like them to.
“Drew and Montero for laptop isn’t as bad a deal as you may think – they’ll get their catcher and SS which they have been looking for for years”
It’s not, but they’re never going to do it. They think they have their SS already in that Cuban kid who is in AA. Believe he’s hurt now, but he was holding his own as a 20 year old and still has a year and a half before they’ll need him to come up for Scutaro. No clue what they’re going to do for a catcher, and Montero is a pretty good one, but they won’t move Buchholtz.
Aaron-
They have too many holes to fill. Let’s just agree to disagree on this one.
Let’s just say that I hope I am right.
VBlade, he’s not a midget, he’s a hobbit…
base it on the number of injuries they have sustained to their starters and to the fact that the likes of McDonald, Nava, and Reddick are not likely to be able to keep up what they have been doing.,
How has that hurt them? Beckett is the only significant argument here.
I do agree with the last sentence though. In the present configuration, I can’t see them holding water, but I don’t think the Post-all star break Red Sox are going to look like they do now. I think they’re going to make that move while Beltre is a huge throw in on any deal made. They’re going to make a move for a big third or first baseman.
# Noreaster June 29th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
VBlade, he’s not a midget, he’s a hobbit…
————-
Is he starring in the new Hobbit movie?
Billy D, you’re right.
That kid is a whiz with the glove, and can pick it like not many SS I’ve seen. I live near Portland. He’s on the DL now, which is the only reason they’re not sliding Scutaro over to second base and calling him up.
Aaron-
Nothing to stop anyone from believing in the “tooth Fairy”.
Knock yourself out.
Doreen GTLU Thanks
SS Jeter
RF Swisher
1B Teixeira
3B ARod
2B Cano
DH Posada
CF Granderson
C Cervelli
LF Gardner
P Hughes
Hey, I happen to believe Gardner and Pettitte will keep it up to, but the odds are against it. I hold faith in things I’ve seen a thousand times, and hope in that which has yet to be proven.
We arguing a guess. I agree to disagree. Good day, bud.
Mariners offense is not terrible? Ichiro is one of the best hitters in the game. Figgins always kills us. Lopez is solid. Branyan is a very dangerous hitter? he hit a HR off Hughes when he came here with the Indians earlier. Kotchman is a solid player.
–
Ichiro is good, everyone else is terrible. Gutz is their second best hitter. They have one player with an OPS over .800, its Ichiro. 1 player slugging over .450 (its Mike Sweeney), and only 1 player OBP over .350 (its Ichiro).
They are probably the least dangerous lineup in baseball. No one capable of hitting a HR regularly. No one a threat to walk. No plate discipline. A lot of strike outs.
Sox are sitting right at the luxury tax threshold.
Will they be willing to cross it?
The Red Sox have one of the worst pitching staffs in the AL and they’ve just lost a major part of their offense.
I’m finding it hard to believe that they’ll somehow be able to tread water for the next few weeks. But hey, anything is possible.
I don’t see them catching the Yanks however. Not this year.
Seattle: baseball:: Utley: hair washing.
I am not obsessed/worried but its way too early in the season to totally write the sox off…they just had injuries to 3 players, the same thing can happen to any team. By the same token I wouldn’t write off either Twins/Tigers in the C or Rangers/Angels in the W. And I am not writing off the Rays either…there is a lot of baseball yet to be played.
Billy D – they need alot of position players in the next few years (3rd base, SS, catcher, DH, and at least 1 maybe 2 OF’s) so if trading Buchholtz for 2 of those (and replacing him with Cliff Lee) means they can plug 2 of the 5 holes and still be better off pitching wise. I know its dumb trading an above average pitcher who is cost controlled – but if you have as many holes as the redsox do and not much available in free agency except Cliff Lee and crawford then it may be something they have to do
i’d rather they keep laptop so that the yankees can get lee without a negotiating battle but if the redsox want to be competitive next year with all the $$ they have coming off the books then going after lee may be the smart thing to do…
again its my dumb 2 cents and thats probably what its worth as well..thats why i guess i’m not a gm – except in my living room
mariners are throwing their top 2 pitchers to begin the series. not the best luck in the world, but maybe we can win 1 of those 2 games. that would be a victory.
–
We should win both. Mariners pitching isn’t exceptionally better than ours, and our lineup is much, much better.
Its hard to sweep a major league team, but at home? vs the mariners? Its a reasonable expectation. The mariners bullpen is also not very good.
I guess the mariners could win if Lee and felix throw CG SHO
“I think they’re going to make that move while Beltre is a huge throw in on any deal made. They’re going to make a move for a big third or first baseman.”
Beltre is having an allstar level season and is leading AL third basemen in OPS. And unlike so many of his teammates, his numbers have not been Fenway induced. Wouldn’t it be a little counterproductive to trade him in favor of a different 1B or 3B? Doesn’t solve their outfield problem, that’s for sure.
I don’t see them moving Beltre. He has been one of baseball’s better bargains this past offseason.
Kate-
I would never normally write off a team like the Sox and I am not now.
All I am saying is they have been devasted by injuries to key players.
With that in mind, how could anyone not expect them to fade under that burden ?
They are snakebit this season.
It’s the curse of the shirt.
$0.2:
The Red Sox aren’t going to sign Cliff Lee. They won’t outbid the Yankees for his services. They’re going to keep Buchholtz because he remains relatively inexpensive and use the significant dollars coming off the books to plug some of those considerable holes you speak of.
The Red Sox have one of the worst pitching staffs in the AL.
Really? Is that seriously what you’re arguing. Do you know how they even compare? Did you look up any stats, or just toss out your opinion on things?
They’re collective ERA is 0.25 behind us, and they two are in 5th and 10th respectively.
They’re second in wins.
They’re 7th in K’s (NY is 6th with 3 more)
They’re far from “one of the worst” staffs in baseball under any measure at all.
Wouldn?t it be a little counterproductive to trade him in favor of a different 1B or 3B? Doesn?t solve their outfield problem, that?s for sure.
No. Beltre is on a one year, incentive laden contract that, I think, the Red Sox have no interest in maintaining beyond this year. The only other year he has ever had that looks like this one, was his other walk year. Hello AJ Burnett. Beltre, right now, is the most tradeable person on that team. I think it depends on how the next two weeks go for them. I, however, would love to see them move him for long term solutions and get him off that team NOW.
Sanchez finished the game with Tampa Yankee rookies at 1-2 with 2 runs scored, 2 RBI and 3 walks.
Culver finished 4-5 with a double, 2 runs scored 1 RBI and a stolen base.
“As fans, we’ll be very lucky if Sanchez is even in AAA when he’s 20.”
That’s true.
Interestingly, Montero, when he was 17, played 33 games in the GCL. Sanchez had a chance to play in 40-something or more, depending on how many days off they give him.
Montero hit well that year, but I believe he as like .280 with 3 HRs.
He then went to Charleston the the next year (18), then Tampa/Trenton (19) last year and is now in 20 in AAA.
By all accounts, Sanchez is far more advanced as a catcher.
I wouldn’t bet my daugther’s college fund, but there is recent precedent suggesting that if he rakes, he could be in AAA by 20 too.
Also, the whip is very comparable at 1.27 to 1.35
They’re numbers are skewed by Dice-K, and ours are skewed by Burnett. Take those two pitcher out of either rotation, and they’re one and two in almost every category, only being bested by Tampa’s rediculous start.
I happen to look at numbers and make decisions based on them.
well it will be interesting to see how the sox/rays series shakes out
WOW, Culver sounds like he is off to a good start
thanks for the report GB
Wang was no child at the time of his injury. If he did not keep himself in good condition over the winter, shame on him, not the Yankees.
I am looking forward to a good pitcher’s duel tonight.
GTLU:
Jeter
Swisher
Tex
Alex – DH
Cano
Jorge
Huffman – LF
Granderson
Pena – 3b
You know what cracks me up… the whole “laptop” thing. As if somehow we’re doing Buccholz and the Red Sox a disservice of some kind, by keeping that alive.
It’s like the people who wave and scream at pros attempting free throws at an away court.
How many decades and hundreds of thousands of games is it going to take to get them to realize it doesn’t make a bit of difference?
Chambliss June 29th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
Wang was no child at the time of his injury. If he did not keep himself in good condition over the winter, shame on him, not the Yankees.
——————–
Unfortunately, it was the Yankees themselves that mandated him to put in less offseason conditioning in lieu of his Lisfranc injury.
stuckey June 29th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
You know what cracks me up… the whole “laptop” thing. As if somehow we’re doing Buccholz and the Red Sox a disservice of some kind, by keeping that alive.
——————
I think it’s more of a nickname than anything at this point. I for one find Laptops easier to type than Buchholz. lol.
Kate-
As long as we tend to our buisness it doesn’t really matter what happens between the Sox and the Rays. It’s win win for us. If we’re lucky there will be a few more injuries.
Either way we gain ground on the Rays or we gain ground on the Sox.
It’s not gonna be easy to knock off Lee and Felix. That’s our current challenge. I hope we can take 2 of 3.
Sure thing, Kate. They also have another slugger down there hitting .310 with 2 homers, 3 doubles, 11 RBI, a 6 foot 4 inch 210 pound 1st baseman in 18 year old Reymond Nunez. 7 games, 29 at bats
If we?re lucky there will be a few more injuries.
Wow. At least we know what kind of fan you are. I’d much rather beat their pro team – not Portland or Greenville. It’s too easy for the fans to point to those injuries you’re so heavily depending on. Like us with Wang. I HATE saying “yeah, that year would have been different..”
GB – Nunez is a beast.
Why not just hope their collective planes crash into the ocean…this way, we don’t have to play them at all and can just set records against Baltimore and Toronto? That sounds so fun. Really.
MTU
as long as the Yankees keep up their winning ways, it doesn’t matter what anyone else does.
yes, I totally agree
The Red Sox paranoia some have on here is tiring but, it is what it is.
What’s funnier to me is when people in the game thread overrate the Sox.
How about this…..
Worry about the Red Sox when the Yankees play them again because its the only time its really relevent to “worry” about the Red Sox.
Until then, enjoy the team you are a fan of since they have the best record in baseball.
Aaron-
It isn’t my fault if providence didn’t smile on the Sox.
And if our opponent is weakened by things that are out of our control why should we care ?
Are we supposed to go and lend the Sox some of our players just so it will be a fair competition ?
We have had injuries too. I am sure Sox fans delight in every one of them.
I am interested in winning. I don’t give a rats rear about what befalls the Sox.
That just the way it goes. Tough luck for them. Good fortune for us.
Maybe next year we’ll be unlucky and they won’t.
There’s no reason to feel sorry for Boston. They don’t feel sorry for any of our injuries, and rightfully so.
I’d look in the rear view mirror every now and then for them, but not all that much. Worry about it when they come to town, otherwise, Yankees gotta take care of their own business.
Are these Red Sox the same organization, manager and most of the same players that last season won their first 8 games against the Yankees and somehow managed to split the season series, finish 8 games behind the Yankees and lost in the ALDS (swept?)
Is this the team that some of us seem to think have magical abilities?
The LOHUD Yankees forum – where short-term memory goes to die.
Whatever floats your boat, man. I just don’t wish injury on anyone, regardless of team. I now understand what kind person I’m dealing with. It’s fine to think however you want.
Aaron,
The Red Sox pitching staff ERA isn’t league average. So yeah, it’s one of the worst pitching staffs in the league.
“I happen to look at numbers and make decisions based on them.”
Yep, me too, that’s how I know the Sox pitching staff hasn’t been pitching well this season. Right now they have Lester and Buchholz. Their starting rotation is thinner than looseleaf paper.
But hey, if YOUR numbers tell you that they have a really good pitching staff then by all means continue to believe it.
Exactly, Stuckey. Things change very quickly. I just happen to not look at that team with my NY blinders on. I know they’re good, and I know they’re going to be in contention all year despite what even the biggest fanboy seems to think.
“Expect the Montero comparisons to begin in earnest presently.”
Hoepfully he will hit better in AAA in 2012 than Montero is….
—————–
As fans, we’ll be very lucky if Sanchez is even in AAA when he’s 20.
=================================================
Gary Sanchez will only be 19 years old in 2012.
Aaron-
I am really glad to hear that I have your approval, Bud.
Couldn’t have lived without it.
And if you knew me better you would know that I don’t like seeing people get hurt. not that I need to explain that to you.
Aaron,
I think you misunderstood what Stuckey was saying.
Stuckey…..Nobody articulates their point of view better than you…..Just a passing comment…..I haven’t always shred your viewpoint, but man do you always make a compelling case
My numbers? I pulled them from Baseball reference, Jackbag.
Red Sox starters ERA: 4.21
If you remove Beckett it drops to 3.89
How is that not clear to you? How do you not understand that?
Perhaps they will stay in contention all year, perhaps not.
A month ago, Buster Olney called Tampa Bay, “the closest thing to the 1998 Yankees there has been in baseball”. How is that looking now?
Its a LONG season. The Sox have played very well of late and still trail the Yankees.
That’s not a good sign.
Losing Pedroia for six weeks is a big blow.
They traditionally aren’t a second half team. Whereas the Yankees usually are.
Usually, the Red Sox build up their wins in the first half of the year to help them when they come back to the back in the second half of the year.
Now? They have to handle all of these injuries and the only way to do so is to have dominant starting pitching. Without it, its going to be tough for them.
Check that ( shared your viewpoint )
stuckey, your Laptops/free throw distraction comparison is very poor, at least in terms of usage on this board.
If people think it matters if they yell “Laptop!” at him during a game, maybe.
And even then, you never know. Didn’t you see Daryl Strawberry on The Simpsons? Words can hurt.
Heck, haven’t you ever listened to Belle & Sebastian???
“It is mightier than swords
I could kill you, sure
But I can only make you cry with these words”
Summer slump?
No, I understood him, and was agreeing. Short term memory is what creates the false sense of security amonst a fanbase. They had the upper hand less than a year ago. Now we do. Short term is exactly what I’m referring to, bud.
“My numbers? I pulled them from Baseball reference, Jackbag.
Red Sox starters ERA: 4.21
If you remove Beckett it drops to 3.89
How is that not clear to you? How do you not understand that?”
Why are you removing starters? What would their starters ERA be if you removed Buchholz from the equation?
What’s a jackbag
Also, I said pitching STAFF. Which consists of their whole pitching STAFF. Do you understand?
$0.2:
The Red Sox aren’t going to sign Cliff Lee. They won’t outbid the Yankees for his services. They’re going to keep Buchholtz because he remains relatively inexpensive and use the significant dollars coming off the books to plug some of those considerable holes you speak of.
====================================================
The Red Sox REALLY need to bring in a major league catcher. Varitek is too old, Martinez is not an everyday catcher (a free agent this offseason) and there is NO ONE in their minor league system ready at that position. It should cost them a whole lot of players (via trade) or a lot of money. After that they won’t be able afford too much money for pitching.
Gary Sanchez is the best catching prospect for his age I’ve ever seen.
I saw him in EST and he was impressive with a capital “I”.
Better than Montero at that age.
He’s that good.
If he stays healthy, he’s in AAA in 3 years.
Very, very impressive prospect.
If I was ranking the Yankees Top 7 prospects right now, my order would be:
1. Montero.
2. Brackman.
3. Romine.
4. Betances.
5. Heathcott.
6. Sanchez.
7. Nunez.
All legitimate, front end ML prospects.
Very exciting time for the farm system.
And if you knew me better you would know that I don?t like seeing people get hurt. not that I need to explain that to you.
Except for that one time when you said “all we can hope for is more injuries”?
It’s fine man, I really don’t care what you think or not think, I just like to know the mentality of the person I’m trying to have a rational conversation with. I wasn’t approving of anything, just noting that I now understand your way of looking at things.
um, why the hell would the Yankees trade for Lee this year when they could give up no prospects and sign him after the season? we’ve seen this before from the Yanks. they will wait and then sign him so they can keep their prospects. besides, starting pitching is not the problem this year, unless you’re counting AJ who is not going to just be replaced all of the sudden in the rotation.
Aaron-
You haven’t a clue about the way I look at things.
jpb1973 June 29th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
$0.2:
The Red Sox aren’t going to sign Cliff Lee. They won’t outbid the Yankees for his services. They’re going to keep Buchholtz because he remains relatively inexpensive and use the significant dollars coming off the books to plug some of those considerable holes you speak of.
====================================================
The Red Sox REALLY need to bring in a major league catcher. Varitek is too old, Martinez is not an everyday catcher (a free agent this offseason) and there is NO ONE in their minor league system ready at that position. It should cost them a whole lot of players (via trade) or a lot of money. After that they won’t be able afford too much money for pitching.
**********************************
My point exactly – is keeping laptops really better than plugging 2 huge holes in the field and lineup – especially when you can then plug laptops’s hole with cliff lee – spending $15 – $17 per year is better spent on cliff lee than it is on victor martinez
oh and btw its $.02 or else i’d be “My 20 cents” – (joking)
“I just happen to not look at that team with my NY blinders on.”
Nothing I cited was a viewpoint. They finished 8 games behind the Yanks last year.
Both teams are currently on pace to finish roughly the same as they did last year.
“I know they’re good, and I know they’re going to be in contention all year despite what even the biggest fanboy seems to think.”
So I remember that they didn’t say in contention all of last year, I look at the fact the Yankees are currently pace to win 102-104 games again, and I have fanboy blinders on?
I believe your viewpoint is the one drawn independently of the data available.
Guess The Line Up is Now Closed
I have the following lineups; if you submitted a lineup and don’t see your name, please let me know.
Joe from Long Island
Patrick from CT
champ809
upstate kate
Unknown
yankswin27
Fran (the original)
RayVT
86w183
Joe from NC
YanksfaninPA
CT23
Noreaster
SportsGeek
Chip
(I didn’t see one from Erica or Erin, where are they?
)
I was removing Beckett’s starts because of the injury, which gives a more clear depiction of what any team has done over the past seven weeks.
I wasn’t picking and choosing. In fact, I said earlier in the thread if they removed Beckett or Dice-K, and we removed the last six weeks of Burnett, we’re one and two in nearly every category – hardly one of the worst staffs in baseball for any team.
If we removed hughes, where would we be? I wasn’t removing what is great, but rather what is horrible, and not sure if you know this, outliers. If the Yankees had an injured starter, I would have removed that starter as well. A 10+ ERA really changes the realistic picture of any team.
ON THE NOSE ! : http://blog.silive.com/yankees.....lee_i.html
To be blunt, I could care less if today’s hypothetical “Lee to the Red Sox” fantasy ever happened.
Know why?
They’ll have all their money tied in Lee, Lackey, Beckett, Lester and Dice K. If any of them falter or get injured they are cooked.
The won’t be able to afford any real hitters to speak of. Right now they are a team that needs to replace position players in many positions and do not have the prospects to come up and fill in these needs. They need a future catcher, a starting DH, a 1b or 3b (Beltre’s only there a year) and they’ll need an OF’er or two.
They also wouldn’t be able to afford to keep Papelbum so then I ask who is going to set up for Bard? Is Bard going to pitch 3 inning saves? The kid’s arm will fall off soon with the amount of work he’s being given. There’s no one in their pen other than Bard and Papelbum.
And if you knew anything about the Red Sox, you’d know they will not trade Bucholtz. He’s their cheap effective insurance policy against all the veterans in the rotation with long term deals. It’d be GM suicide to trade him.
Beckett’s already on the DL. Lackey isn’t exactly pitching like an ace. Lester is an ace no doubt. Dice K is a mess.
So they get Lee, hypothetically. They are going to have to pitch complete games and pitch shutouts….and they won’t all the time.
As for their injury plague, boo hoo. We’ve already played parts of the season without our catcher, CF, 3b and we lost our DH the minute the ink dried on his contract. We also lost 2 decent arms in our pen.
People get hurt. It’s baseball.
@Doreen: there’s a big Muppet convention in Sheboygan this week, they’re probably both there.
Just to clarify my earlier post on Sanchez: I wasnt taking a shot at him. I was commenting on someone’s comment about Montero not hitting in AAA. My point was more about how impressive it is that Jesus is even in AAA at age 20. It wasnt that Sanchez doesnt have that kind of potential.
Since Vazquez returned from being skipped he’s 6-3 with a 3.12 era.
His first 5 starts really skewed his overall ERA.
Nick in SF -
Really? Seriously?
Wow.
My point exactly – is keeping laptops really better than plugging 2 huge holes in the field and lineup – especially when you can then plug laptops’s hole with cliff lee – spending $15 – $17 per year is better spent on cliff lee than it is on victor martinez
====================================================
If they sign Cliff Lee then who is going to catch for them? And who will be their DH? And who will play CF? And who will play 3B?
The Red Sox have many holes to fill in the offseason. Some they can fill by resigning Beltre and Victor Martinez, but that will cost $$$. Also, it will take a significant $$$ committment to exercise David Ortiz option. If they bring Ellsbury back to play CF then they need to sign a LF…which will mean more $$$.
# Phil is the man, AJ is acting like a BOY June 29th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
ON THE NOSE ! : http://blog.silive.com/yankees…..lee_i.html
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Not gonna happen.
Yankees currently on pace for 104 wins.
Red Sox 97.
Seven game difference.
Yankees traditionally 2nd half team.
Red Sox not.
Not seeing any empirical case for this thing going down to the wire, other the common self-coping mechanism worriers use, which is to always remind themselves nothing will go they way they want it for stark fear of disappointment.
I’m perfectly okay if the Yanks win by a game. In fact, I’m not so bad with them Yanks finishing whatever behind whoever if they still win the wildcard. But not seeing the argument that suggests the Red Sox are a 102-15 win team, which is what it’s going to take.
“Really? Seriously?”
Why, is there a part of LoHud readers from Long Island and Chicago meeting up a Muppet convention in Sheboygan, Michigan that seems implausible in some way???
Unless there is an injury to one of the Yankees starters, they aren’t going to be in on Cliff Lee in season.
I’d say there is a 95% chance they sign him as a FA.
They will find a bat and possibly a bullpen arm.
They aren’t adding Cliff Lee.
If I was ranking the Yankees Top 7 prospects right now, my order would be:
1. Montero.
2. Brackman.
3. Romine.
4. Betances.
5. Heathcott.
6. Sanchez.
7. Nunez.
All legitimate, front end ML prospects.
SJ44-
Thanks for your input. If the Seattle Mariners are supposedly looking for a big bat in a deal for Lee, and this is a “big if”- if the Yankees go against their recent policy of holding onto the elite minor leaguers, and instead trade midseason for a big name FA like Lee, what will it take to get him?
jpb1973 June 29th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
My point exactly – is keeping laptops really better than plugging 2 huge holes in the field and lineup – especially when you can then plug laptops’s hole with cliff lee – spending $15 – $17 per year is better spent on cliff lee than it is on victor martinez
====================================================
If they sign Cliff Lee then who is going to catch for them? And who will be their DH? And who will play CF? And who will play 3B?
The Red Sox have many holes to fill in the offseason. Some they can fill by resigning Beltre and Victor Martinez, but that will cost $$$. Also, it will take a significant $$$ committment to exercise David Ortiz option. If they bring Ellsbury back to play CF then they need to sign a LF…which will mean more $$$.
*****
JPB – my 2:37 comment explains that – but to save you time my thought was that it wouldn’t be too far fetched that the redsox sign cliff lee and then trade laptops to arizona for montero (catcher) and drew (ss) thus solving their need at C and SS and upgrading their starting pitching – and all of this for the same money it would take to just sign victor martinez and keep laptops – this would also allow them to use some of the ortiz money to upgrade at DH or OF or 3B.
Nick in SF -
I sometimes don’t know when you are kidding.
And I have missed a lot of the stuff going on here in the last few days.
And Sheboygan is already a very implausible sounding name for a town.
Trader,
Montero or Romine, Brackman or Betances, and one of either Nunez, Phelps or Warren. Perhaps two if the Mariners are greedy or have other good offers on the table.
That’s why Cash won’t do it.
They don’t need another starting pitcher. They need a RH bat and bullpen help.
Lee is a guy they get in the off-season, not now.
Anyone have any theories about why the Yankees haven’t shown any reported interest in Adam Dunn. Thus far, it appears only the White Sox and Angels have discussed a trade with the Nationals.
I recognize he’s a lousy outfielder but wouldn’t Dunn offer the lineup an inexpensive boost (11 million prorated) to its offensive production and an ideal replacement for Nick Johnson at DH?
Or are the Yankees fixated on acquiring a right-handed bat with more defensive versatility?
The Tampa kids are hitting quite well, but, I’m surprised that they’re hitting for so much power in those parks in Florida.
well then, where are Erica and Erin? seems as likely an explanation as any other!
Our Pythagorean Theorem last year was 95-67
Do you know they call donuts “bakery” in Sheboygan? They don’t use the word donuts.
It’s a very strange place.
Great stat by Kay
This is the best Yankees record through these many games that a defending Yankee team has had since 1963
After Fran (the original), Erin and Erica have played GTLU the most. So, when they don’t play, i miss them.
In fact until recently, Fran had played every single time.
Bologna is called “jumbo” in Pittsburgh.
The Red Sox aren’t signing Cliff Lee. They made a real statement toward their off-season plans by locking up Beckett in season.
They now have Beckett, Lackey and Lester tied up long term. They still have Dice-K under contract and have Buchholz on the cheap.
You don’t trade Buchholz, a cost controlled all star calibur pitcher, for a catcher and add 90-100 million for Cliff Lee. That’s not smart baseball management.
They need to re-shape their everyday lineup. That’s where their off-season will be spent.
I’ll tell you a deal I’d float to Tampa Bay, even though I’d expect them to turn it down…..
Granderson for Upton. One for one. One of those, “do you have the #@##$ to make a deal Tampa”.
I like Granderson and I think he will end up doing a very good job here in the long run.
BJ Upton though always intrigued me.
I’ve always felt if he was on a veteran team, he wouldn’t play like a dog so much.
I also think Kevin Long would do wonders for him.
He’s got to get out of Tampa.
When you think about it, the Rays aren’t going to get anybody as good as Granderson, for what Granderson makes (very important to Tampa) when they shop BJ.
Granderson is a solid citizen and he would fit in great in Tampa.
Its one of those deals that would help both teams.
I think though, Tampa would be loathe to trade BJ to the Yankees. Even for Granderson.
Something to think about though.
kill.schill(ing) June 29th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
Anyone have any theories about why the Yankees haven’t shown any reported interest in Adam Dunn. Thus far, it appears only the White Sox and Angels have discussed a trade with the Nationals.
+++
My theory is that they already have enough 140+ strikeouts per year batters in swisher and granderson and tex, jeter and arod easily reaching 100+ – and as you know striking out is the best type of rally killer there is!! that and the $$$
Anyone interested in baggage laden, Jose Guillen as a bat, if the Royals are truly willing, as reported, to eat a sizeable portion of his remaining contract?
KS,
Adam Dunn wants to play first base. He wants no part of DH or the OF.
The prevailing opinion is, he will eventually get his extension done with the Nats and will be their first baseman.
If that doesn’t happen and he hits the open market, he’s made it clear he’s only interested in going to a team to play first base.
Its why most people in the industry believe he will sign with the Nats.
Random Dunn stat: 2 outs, RISP position this year, he’s hitting .056.
there was an article written recently that striking out alot has no apparent effect on a teams ability to win. if i can find it i will link it.
If I was ranking the Yankees Top 7 prospects right now, my order would be:
1. Montero.
2. Brackman.
3. Romine.
4. Betances.
5. Heathcott.
6. Sanchez.
7. Nunez.
—
Interesting selections. What about Dave Adams, Brandon Laird and Manny Banuelos? Those 3 would probably round out the top 10, no?
However, I disagree with what you are saying Cliff Lee would cost. The prospects you name are more than any team has paid for him in either of the two previous trades.
I would definitely do Granderson for Upton
If you can get Upton to get his head in the game, he is a superstar. A top 5 player in baseball.
Would Tampa though?
“Anyone have any theories about why the Yankees haven’t shown any reported interest in Adam Dunn.”
Perhaps the same reason the Yanks didn’t show any REPORTED interest in Cito Culver before they drafted him.
Yanks don’t play those games.
GB7
Last week or so you had compared Jonathan Albaladejo to Colter Bean when I had asked about him. I look at his stats and see his continued success out of the pen. Doesn’t he deserve another shot in the Yankees bullpen? I know that AAA is not the major leagues, but his AAA numbers as a relief pitcher are over the top.
Granderson for Upton? Are you joking me? No way in hell.
You thought Long would do wonders for Granderson, now you think he’ll do wonders for Upton?
Dude, this is a Chip-level trade proposal.
SJ – That would be a VERY interesting trade… and I think I would do it.
Put that guy on an experienced, veteran team and he will break out. When he looks to his left, he sees A-Rod, when he looks to his right he sees Jeter, when he looks straight, he sees Rivera.
The perfect place to help him live up to his potential. I don’t think TB would do it though.
Adam Dunn is awesome, I’d love him on the Yanks. He’d never sign here as a FA but he has no choice who he’s traded to.
Patrick,
What Seattle will want from the Yankees will be more than they ask for from other teams.
They wanted Austin Jackson for Jarrod Washburn last year.
It would be a bad PR move for Jack Z to giftwrap Lee to NY. That’s why he will ask for the moon and Cash will turn him down.
Adams and Banuelos are hurt right now. If healthy, they are in the Top 10. Laird is probably between 8-10.
I don’t know why the yankees would be thinking about trading Granderson… seems like a pretty big reach. he’s gonna be fine, give him more than 2 months with our all-star hitting coach before you try to ship him off for failed Tampa projects.
When he looks to his left, he sees A-Rod, when he looks to his right he sees Jeter, when he looks straight, he sees Rivera.
–
That would be a very odd defensive alignment – to have your CF playing between third and short, facing the fence.
granderson for upton is a really interesting deal….it has big “backfire” potential for both team…on the yankees part, they could acquire a lazy dog who had one good year….on the rays end, upton could turn into a star and granderson might flop….
i think when a deal has that much that could go wrong for both sides, it probably never happens
My 2 cents,
Good point but the only thing worse than a K is a DP and Dunn’s GO/AO (Ground Balls to FlyBall ratio) is 0.73 for 2010 and 0.78 for his career.
Compare Jeter’s GO/AO.
2010– 3.22
Career– 1.88
I love that Dunn walks often, generates a high OBA, and sees 4.1 Pitches per Plate Appearance.
Then again, you have to be leery of anyone who actually wants to stay in Washington.
New Post
I also think Kevin Long would do wonders for him
just my humble opinion but kevin long already has his hands full with Tex and so far he hasn’t been able to help Granderson – why would BJ Upton be any different. Sometimes i think kevin long is given way too much credit
Adams and Banuelos are hurt right now. If healthy, they are in the Top 10. Laird is probably between 8-10.
–
Adams is hurt. Banuelos had his appendix out but he’s pitching now.
I would make that trade. Granderson does not have the upside of Upton, nor does he have the limitations.
Get Upton in the right frame of mind and he could break out, like we saw from Cano after 08.
Actually it isn’t. BJ Upton and Granderson are similar type players.
The difference is, BJ has to get out of Tampa. Its over for him there.
The risk v. reward of that trade is interesting for both teams.
As far as Granderson working with Long, I think its a little early to declare that a failure. Especially since Grandeson missed a month.
Its an interesting trade proposal because Tampa is in a tough spot with BJ.
The odds are pretty long they will be able to get a player back in return for him as good as Granderson.
I don’t think Tampa would do it because they are loathe to make a deal with the Yankees.
However, when you look at BJ’s rep in the game right now, the pickings are slim for what they can get back in return for him right now.
Might be interested in Upton. but it would be Justin Upton.
Dunn doesn’t want to DH.
Mets might have inside track for Lee, if they don’t require time to negotiate an extension.
SJ- Would the Pirates really consider trading Joel Hanrahan, obtained from the Nats for Nyjer Morgan? Great strikeout ratio.
B.J. Upton hasn’t been a good player in 2 years, I’m not trading Granderson for him.
Why is Upton all the sudden a “break-out” candidate because he’s lazy and has no pride in his own team?
The Mariners have scored the second least runs in baseball, ahead of only the Pirates. Regardless of the park adjustments for their home field, if that’s not terrible, I don’t know what is.
No way I would give up Granderson for Upton.
One could argue the same about Granderson Patrick.
Its one of those trades that could boom or bust bigtime for either team.
Probably why it won’t be made.
kill.schill(ing) June 29th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
My 2 cents,
Good point but the only thing worse than a K is a DP and Dunn’s GO/AO (Ground Balls to FlyBall ratio) is 0.73 for 2010 and 0.78 for his career.
Compare Jeter’s GO/AO.
2010– 3.22
Career– 1.88
I love that Dunn walks often, generates a high OBA, and sees 4.1 Pitches per Plate Appearance.
Then again, you have to be leery of anyone who actually wants to stay in Washington
**************
Ha your last line was funny – as for OBP didn’t we say that about the nick johnson signing – and although he had a high OBP his average was below 200 – that happens alot when you play in the AL east with the beasts the rays and sox (and even toronto) have at pitching..
still i would have taken dunn over nick johnson anyday
I would do that trade in a HEARTBEAT
Don’t have a lot of chances to acquire a player like Upton. Like others have said, top 5 player in baseball potential.
You don’t get those guys at the bottom of the draft and they are not acquirable in trades.
“If you can get Upton to get his head in the game, he is a superstar. A top 5 player in baseball.”
Can someone enlighten me on when he showed this? He was outstanding in 2007, but even then was not close to being one of the best players in baseball. Since then he’s been a pretty big disaster.
Upton is easily the most overrated player in baseball. He is a poor baseball player who for whatever reason thinks he is good enough to play at fifty percent effort.
Good point but the only thing worse than a K is a DP and Dunn’s GO/AO (Ground Balls to FlyBall ratio) is 0.73 for 2010 and 0.78 for his career
+++++
actually that may not be the case in certain situations – for example runners on 1st and 3rd no outs – losing by 1 run i’d rather take the DP and tie the game then have the next 3 batters strikeout (which would be a decent bet if the next 3 batters were dunn, swisher and granderson) haha
Three players on Seattle that would be worth having that they might actually move would be Cliff Lee, Franklin Gutierrez and Brandon League. If there was an actual committment by Lee to sign a 4-5 year extension. Not sure if a package of Romine, Luis Nunez, Brackman, Nova, Warren and either Miranda or Vazquez. If pushed, I’d add Melancon. I’d hate to include Gardner and it would make no sense in swapping Gutierrez for Swisher.
I grant you that scenario, Cents.
What’s bizarre about this trade deadline is that no real obvious candidate that would address the Yankees’ current liabilites presents himself.
Most other years I lust over the same trade candidate every other team wants as well but it would improve the Yankees too.
This year, acquiring Cliff Lee would improve the team marginally but cost the Yankees too much in prospects. He’s likely to be available this off-season anyway.
Actually, the Yankees would profit from a right-handed replacement for Nick Johnson who can hit and who can play the outfield and/or third base.
Wigginton would help, but I’d like to see the Yankees aim higher.
I’d love to see them acquire a right-handed DH who can duplicate Posada’s production from the right-side. This way when Posada can get a full day of rest when he’s not catching without the Yankees squandering the his much-needed offensive output. Who is this guy though? I can’t identify anyone who fits this profile. Anyone have suggestion?
This year the Yankees need a right-handed bat who can play