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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees postgame

Posted by: Brian Heyman - Posted in Misc on Jun 29, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Joba Rules’ descendents, the Hughes Rules, meant Phil Hughes was pitching on nine days’ rest. He wasn’t sharp, leading to questions about the “Rules” and the Yankees skipping his last start. The 24-year-old righty gave up a season-high seven runs and a career-high 10 hits in 5 2/3 on the way to the 7-4 loss to the Mariners. It snapped his 10-game home winning streak, which had been tied for the longest active run in the majors with CC Sabathia.

Hughes said the rest didn’t throw him off, that it was a command problem, especially with his cutter. He also said that he supports the innings limit. The Yankees haven’t said what the limit is, but the speculation has been running at 170 to 180 innings. Hughes, according to Joe Girardi, will stay on turn for the his final two starts before the All-Star break, which may not be a break for Hughes, since even with this loss, he’s 10-2 with a 3.58 ERA.

“We understand all our fans want to win and we want to win, too,” Girardi said. “But where would be without him right now? We could be in trouble. We don’t want to take that chance moving forward.”

Cliff Lee, on the other hand, showed why teams would like to trade for him if the prospect price is right. This was free agent-to-be’s third straight complete game. This was his second complete-game win at the new stadium, including Game 1 of the World Series last Oct. 28. He’s the only opposing pitcher to do that here.

“I like pitching here,” Lee said.

The 31-year-old lefty actually walked a batter, Jorge Posada in the second, stopping a streak of 144 batters faced without issuing a free pass. Lee has walked five guys all season – in 95 2/3 innings.

“I’m a Mariner until they tell me otherwise,” Lee said. “I’m going to continue to help the Mariners win every time I take the mound.

Lee also said about the potential for a trade: “It’s out of my control, so I don’t even worry about it.” …

Mark Teixeira extended his hitting streak to 10 games with a ninth-inning double. … 

Curtis Granderson had two of the eight hits off Lee, the first time he has had two hits against lefty pitching in a game since Sept. 16, 2009, when he was dressed as a Detroit Tiger. …

Wednesday night, it’s Javier Vazquez vs. Felix Hernandez. That’s it from here tonight.

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145 Responses to “Yankees postgame”

  1. Carl June 29th, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    You’re gonna love pitching here next year Lee.

  2. m June 29th, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    Phil will bounce back.

    Not liking that Granderson stat. Yuck. Hopefully he’s turned a new leaf.

    As for Lee, he’s great. He likes pitching here, huh? :)

    But his eyes and his comments are so cold. But he’ll have a personality transplant when he dons the pinstripes!

  3. Banjo June 29th, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    “I like pitching here,” Lee said.

    ————

    Welcome, Cliff!

  4. NAT June 29th, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    “But his eyes and his comments are so cold.”

    Which is why he is so successful ;)

  5. Joba Tips his Cap June 30th, 2010 at 12:01 am

    it’s ok for Phil to suck once in a while, he earned it.

  6. AZ Four June 30th, 2010 at 12:01 am

    Javy needs to stop the bleeding tomorrow and pitch a good game

    Going to be tough to get runs off Queen Felix, so he has to keep us in it

  7. Joba Tips his Cap June 30th, 2010 at 12:01 am

    Sux will sweep TB again?

  8. kent June 30th, 2010 at 12:03 am

    “Sux will sweep TB again?”

    prolly…. tampa is cooked

    i could see them spiraling out of it completely soon. boston is in a different class than them.

  9. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    Phil has had command issues for awhile now ……….and he said that it was odd that his FB was not as good as it usually is, which was strange because he felt stronger after the rest. I hope that’s just flukey because it doesn’t sound good.

  10. Yankee22 June 30th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    Am I the only one who sees the hude off color spot on lees hat everytime he pitches

  11. raymagnetic June 30th, 2010 at 12:05 am

    Why are Red Sox fans so obsessed with a Yankee blog :???:

    it’s so very sad that they live on this blog. Pete Abe has a lovely blog you Sox fans can hang out at.

  12. chan ho's runs June 30th, 2010 at 12:06 am

    “I like pitching here”

    I didn’t think it was possible for me to want to him to be a Yankee even more, but now I do. Trade, free agency, whatever. Get him here please!

  13. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 12:07 am

    http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....7-4-31055/

    Fastballs & Cutters

    Photo Credit: Seth Wenig, AP
    I’m not going to get on Phil Hughes too much because this was his first start in ten days, but good grief, again with the 85% fastballs and cutters. It’s been 15 starts now, and it’s pretty obvious the league is catching on. When Rob Johnson, Rob frickin’ Johnson and his .274 wOBA whacks a pair of doubles off you, you don’t tip your cap to him. You say “what the hell did I do wrong?” and stop doing it. The guy saw 11 pitches in three at-bats against Hughes, and ten of them were fastballs. I mean, what more do you need? Was the Kevin Cash homer a few weeks ago not enough?

    Yes, it was good to see Hughes get two swings-and-misses on changeups (both to Russell Branyan in separate at-bats), but so what. Until he starts mixing that pitch, or at least his curveball in more, he’ll keep getting hit around. Major league hitters will hit a fastball when they know it’s coming, and 85% of the time Hughes is giving it to them.

  14. Chris June 30th, 2010 at 12:08 am

    Phil says the rest didn’t throw him off; it was a command problem.

    If you don’t pitch for 9 days, you’re gonna have a command problem.

    Those idiot Yankee “baseball people” are doing to Hughes what they did to Joba last year. The morons who came up with the double secret probation Hughes rules should be hung up by their jockstraps.

  15. Freddy June 30th, 2010 at 12:08 am

    All of Hughes’ rough outings have come at home – Astros, Sox, tonight

    His worst starts on the road were the Mets (mediocre) and Orioles (decent) but other than has been great on the road.

    His 3 best starts – Boston, Oakland, Detroit were on the road

  16. Yanks 21 June 30th, 2010 at 12:09 am

    That RAB piece is spot on… adjustment time is long overdue.

  17. raymagnetic June 30th, 2010 at 12:09 am

    Lee is just trying to get Cashman’s attention, that’s all.

    He doesn’t know, he had Cashman at hello. ;)

  18. Blank Check June 30th, 2010 at 12:10 am

    Want Lee so badly

    The guy is cold blooded, he is another Andy Pettitte.

    Ughhh… droool…..

  19. Rich in NJ June 30th, 2010 at 12:10 am

    “The Joba Rules’ descendents, the Hughes Rules, meant Phil Hughes was pitching on nine days’ rest.”

    This is hype. The Joba Rules were originally designed to protect Joba from Torre’s tendency to overuse relievers.

  20. Mike June 30th, 2010 at 12:11 am

    Lee is legit. He would be a very good investment. Pitchers like him don’t hit the market often.

  21. Rich in NJ June 30th, 2010 at 12:13 am

    “Betsy – Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 29th, 2010 at 11:51 pm
    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-…..id=5341606

    On Tuesday, the cutter was the problem pitch, Hughes said, while his fastball didn’t have its normal explosion, which was odd because he said he felt “stronger” with the extra rest. “He couldn’t get the big out when he needed it,” Girardi said.

    ***************

    I wonder what accounts for the relatively weak FB when he felt stronger…….”
    __

    This is basically what I posted. He didn’t have late life on his FB because he was probably overthrowing and didn’t have the same feel for the ball coming out of his hand.

  22. Joba Tips his Cap June 30th, 2010 at 12:14 am

    Lee is cool.

  23. Carl June 30th, 2010 at 12:17 am

    “Yeah, I like it,” he said. “You know there’s going to be a lot of fans. I’ve always enjoyed pitching here. They’re knowledgeable fans that understand the game, and they get into it.

    “As a player, that’s what you like and respect. Obviously, I try to keep them as quiet as possible when I face them on this side.”

    Cliff Lee

  24. Hick June 30th, 2010 at 12:18 am

    Am I the only one afraid that Lee will revert to his pre-2008 form after we sign him to a mega deal?

    I mean, no one finds it suspicious that he waited till he was 30 to become a good pitcher and was shuttling between the majors and minors before then?

  25. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 12:19 am

    Rich, I figured he would overthrow – and that would result in higher velocity, but no command. I guess, though, that when you overthrow it just diminishes the effectiveness of the pitch.

    Phil is starting to frustrated some bloggers, lol – the RAB guys sound like they are ready to tear the hair out of their heads, lol.

  26. Nick in SF June 30th, 2010 at 12:20 am

    Phil’s season was fueled by competing with Buchholz. That’s gone for now, and Phil has nothing.

    Sad.

    I wish Phil cared about the Yankees and not just being the young phenom.

  27. chan ho's runs June 30th, 2010 at 12:20 am

    Carl, stop teasing me with these quotes. Lol.

    If he doesn’t end up a Yankee at some point, I will be beyond disappointed.

  28. m June 30th, 2010 at 12:21 am

    There was Joba Rules v1.0 and Joba Rules v2.0…

    Either way, we have to live with it the IP limit.

    Why did Girardi wait so long to take Hughes out? We still were in the game, so to speak…of course Lee can pitch differently with a 5 run lead, but we still got 4 off of him. That’s getting shelled by Lee’s standards. ;)

    Anyway, Phil’s been stale for a while now. He’ll just have to figure out how to adjust to league adjustment.

  29. Carl June 30th, 2010 at 12:21 am

    # chan ho’s runs June 30th, 2010 at 12:20 am

    Carl, stop teasing me with these quotes. Lol.

    If he doesn’t end up a Yankee at some point, I will be beyond disappointed.

    Notice how he said on this side. He knows he’ll be a Yankee soon. He’ll help us get 29.

  30. Alpine June 30th, 2010 at 12:24 am

    “Phil’s season was fueled by competing with Buchholz. That’s gone for now, and Phil has nothing.”

    lol, that is over with now. Phil’s ERA is almost a run higher.

  31. Joba Tips his Cap June 30th, 2010 at 12:24 am

    “He knows he’ll be a Yankee soon. He’ll help us get 29.”

    wow, this is heavy. I hope it’s true.

  32. pat June 30th, 2010 at 12:24 am

    “I like pitching here,” Lee said.

    …..and somewhere his agent is smiling knowing that just earned him an extra million or 2 a year from the Yankees or someone else.

  33. chan ho's runs June 30th, 2010 at 12:25 am

    I really hope you’re right.

    I know we’re spoiled and we can’t have everything, but dammit I am a spoiled Yankees fan, and I want Cliff Lee!

  34. Alpine June 30th, 2010 at 12:29 am

    There is no scenario in which we do not get Cliff Lee

    Unlike CC, there is no question about his willingness to want to come here. We don’t have to convince him or beg him. Just be the highest bidder and he will be ours.

  35. Rich in NJ June 30th, 2010 at 12:29 am

    FB velo:

    Avg: 92.46
    Max 94.6

    Betsy

    He did throw hard, but it lacked late life or explosion. That’s what makes Phil’s 93mph seem like a 95-95mph FB. It explodes when it reaches the plate.

    I don’t read many blogs anymore.

    m

    You are correct, but most people seem to have forgotten about v1.0 (the version that gave rise to the name). That was really my point.

  36. Skyline June 30th, 2010 at 12:32 am

    We’re not re-signing Vazquez even if he is great in the 2nd half. His stuff is diminished, he’s going to be 34 next year, and probably will want a multi yr deal.

    Andy is always on the fence and there is no guarantee he will pitch lights out if he comes back. He is going to be 39

    Burnett is a box of chocolates and will only get worse as he ages.

    Hughes should be solid, but there is always a chance he has a Porcello/Pelfry/Buchholz slide in his 2nd full yr starting.

    Lee is an absolute no-brainer.

  37. Rich in NJ June 30th, 2010 at 12:32 am

    “Phil’s ERA is almost a run higher.”

    Before tonight’s game:

    xFIP:

    Hughes: 3.86

    Bucholz: 4.28

  38. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 12:37 am

    Rich, that’s the problem with his FB tonight – he said basically he had no late life (those weren’t his exact words, but basically that’s what he was saying – per the post-game comments I’ve read). That’s why I’d be a bit concerned…………his stuff hasn’t been great lately (K’s are declining) and his command has been off. Even if he starts mixing up his pitches, he still needs his command to return.

  39. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 12:38 am

    Rich, what does xFIP mean?

    Regardless, Phil’s peripherals are getting worse and Buchholz’ are getting better (except for the strikeouts)…………Not that it means anything other than that, taken in totality, Buchholz has pitched better than Phil.

  40. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 12:40 am

    Yep, 2nd year pitchers always seem to decline…………I don’t know why. Maybe Phil will experience that decline this year and be great all year next, who knows, lol. I have serious reservations, but I do think the Yanks need Lee next year.

  41. Jim June 30th, 2010 at 12:42 am

    one thing that stinks about the Yankees playing bad teams is that all their best players treat it as an audition to either be traded or for future free agency.

  42. vblade June 30th, 2010 at 12:42 am

    Unless this is really a breakout year, Laptops is bound to come back to his career averages sometime soon.

    Dude also has an ERA more than a full run higher in 2nd halves of seasons.

  43. CompassRosy June 30th, 2010 at 12:43 am

    Gotta love Lee.
    He just notches his third straight victory via a complete game and in his post game interview he says…
    “I gotta do a better job getting ahead of the hitters.”

    *sigh*

    He WILL be missed :(
    Here’s hoping some of that attitude and ethic rubbed off on his soon-to-be ex-teammates…

  44. igotid88 June 30th, 2010 at 12:45 am

    doesn’t buchholz have more inning under his belt? i’m sure hughes will do better on sunday.

  45. CompassRosy June 30th, 2010 at 12:47 am

    one thing that stinks about the Yankees playing bad teams is that all their best players treat it as an audition to either be traded or for future free agency.

    I like to think of it more as ‘playing to the level of your competition’ ;)

  46. Josh June 30th, 2010 at 12:50 am

    Porcello only has one real pitch – that sinking fastball. His slider has been very spotty.

    Buchholz was a mess mechanically and was pitching backwards for a while… basically like Joba.

    Pelfrey was a mess upstairs and, like Porcello, he had underdeveloped secondary pitches and only his sinking fastball. He developed a nasty splitter this year, thats been the big key for him.

  47. Rich in NJ June 30th, 2010 at 12:51 am

    Betsy

    Here’s The Hardball Times definition:

    xFIP
    Expected Fielding Independent Pitching. This is an experimental stat that adjusts FIP and “normalizes” the home run component. Research has shown that home runs allowed are pretty much a function of flyballs allowed and home park, so xFIP is based on the average number of home runs allowed per outfield fly. Theoretically, this should be a better predicter of a pitcher’s future ERA.

  48. raymagnetic June 30th, 2010 at 12:51 am

    xFIP

    http://www.fangraphs.com/fanta.....ts-update/

  49. Dan 7 June 30th, 2010 at 12:52 am

    Compass – what kind of package are Ms fans looking for Lee? Do you want stuff from the Mets or would you rather get 2 picks?

  50. yanks nj June 30th, 2010 at 12:54 am

    They should shut Hughes down through the ASB… that way. his numbers can’t get worse and Girardi can still take him lol

  51. Rob June 30th, 2010 at 12:56 am

    Cliff Lee started the first game ever at Yankee Stadium

    He also started the first World Series game at Yankee Stadium

    He was destined to be a Yankee

  52. Alpine June 30th, 2010 at 12:59 am

    He kept his cool earlier in the day, too, when his subway sped through the stop for Yankee Stadium. Lee handled it like a local. He got off and switched to a downtown D train going the other way. No big deal.

    “I’m not afraid to take the subway,” Lee said.

    ——————–

    man, how can you not love this guy. I bet some Yankees wouldn’t know what to do if that happened

  53. NYYanksFan June 30th, 2010 at 1:05 am

    If the Yankees don’t trade for Lee this year I hope the Mets do. It will make them look pathetic when he walks away and signs with the Yankees in 2011.

  54. Nick in SF June 30th, 2010 at 1:08 am

    I once missed the Yankee Stadium stop and didn’t figure it out ’til I got to Hartford. :oops:

  55. G. Love June 30th, 2010 at 1:10 am

    I love that Lee said what he did.

    If I were Cashman I would make a call to the Mets and ask them what they’d give up for Javy and attempt to get some of the talent you’d need to get Lee from the M’s that way.

    If the Yankees can swing a 3 team deal with the Mets and M’s where the Mets get Javy, we get Lee and the M’s get prospects (where the hit is less for us than it would be dealing for Lee straight up) I’d do it.

    However, I don’t deal for Lee straight up with the M’s. Number 1, there’s no room in the rotation for him as it stands. Number 2, he’ll be there waiting for us in the off season.

    The benefit of doing it now is if we trade for him and sign him, we don’t lose any draft picks.

    Don’t see it happening, but it wouldn’t hurt to see what Cash could put together with the Mets who would end up with a good starting pitcher and not have to raid the farm in the process.

  56. CompassRosy June 30th, 2010 at 1:10 am

    Compass – what kind of package are Ms fans looking for Lee? Do you want stuff from the Mets or would you rather get 2 picks?

    I won’t speak for M’s fans in general, but me personally? I’d rather the M’s keep him and take the picks. Jack Z has nearly purged the system of ‘Bavasi-guys’ so they certainly could use the replenishment on the farm…

    Besides, Cliff’s worth to this team (should he be retained for the remainder of the season) goes WAY beyond mere draft picks. I’ve already mentioned his attitude and work ethic (that are “Edgar-like”) but he is also an A-one clubhouse guy who has stepped up as a leader (not always easy for a pitcher to do) and has been more than willing to share his knowledge and experience with his teammates.

    My two cents.

  57. Joe June 30th, 2010 at 1:13 am

    Kemp just made a GREAT catch to rob the Kung-Fu Panda

    Torre is a genius for putting him in the lineup when Manny got ejected

  58. Carl June 30th, 2010 at 1:14 am

    Compass I agree with you. I don’t want the Twins to get em.

  59. Nick in SF June 30th, 2010 at 1:14 am

    Alternate joke for Doreen:

    I once missed the Yankee Stadium stop and didn’t figure it out ’til I got to Sheboygan. :oops:

    (Sheboygan is in Wisconsin, of course, and not Michigan, as I wrote earlier. I regret the error.)

  60. ML June 30th, 2010 at 1:19 am

    G Love, Lee has said he’s going to free agency so we can’t sign him. He’s a rental. And one we have no room for and don’t need. Finally if the mets had the prospects to get lee then why would they give them up for javy instead? Why do you feel the need to trade for any available player whether we need them or not?

  61. Bandit June 30th, 2010 at 1:19 am

    A joke is not funny if you have to explain it

    ;)

  62. Nick in SF June 30th, 2010 at 1:20 am

    That was a correction, not an explanation.

    Pffft.

  63. sw June 30th, 2010 at 1:22 am

    “He kept his cool earlier in the day, too, when his subway sped through the stop for Yankee Stadium. Lee handled it like a local. He got off and switched to a downtown D train going the other way. No big deal.”
    Didn’t something like this happen during the World Series too? Lee’s cab was stuck in traffic, so he hopped off and got on a subway train to the stadium.

  64. kent June 30th, 2010 at 1:23 am

    sw,

    yeah, I remember that

    This guy is a natural-born New Yorker. Doesn’t panic, just calmly finds the right way to his detination.

  65. Carl June 30th, 2010 at 1:23 am

    # Joe June 30th, 2010 at 1:13 am

    Kemp just made a GREAT catch to rob the Kung-Fu Panda

    Torre is a genius for putting him in the lineup when Manny got ejected

    Andres Torres.

  66. Carl June 30th, 2010 at 1:27 am

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06.....epner.html

    Cliff and CC had dinner. Don’t know if anyone read this.

  67. William June 30th, 2010 at 1:57 am

    To Betsy’s post earlier:

    I can see how some bloggers/statheads are getting a bit frustrated with Hughes. I’m neither, but the fact remains that ignoring win total (which in his case is due to abnormally high run support), he’s been almost as bad as AJ since mid-May. In AJs case, the problem is clearly mechanical, and will be fixed, but with Phil…he just doesn’t have a put-away pitch. His curve has regressed significantly this year, and as a result, even when he’s pitching lights-out, he’s throwing WAY too many pitches due to foul balls. I was excited to see a couple of nasty changeups to Branyan tonight, but the reality is, if Hughes is going to be a starter going forward, he needs to find an out pitch.

  68. Pat M. June 30th, 2010 at 3:39 am

    Some serious comedy here tonight as I read thru the in game comments and even more so in the post game ……….Matt, you really should opt for your 5th year internship at the tee-ball level….Maybe you can share your baseball insights and wisdom on the 8 year olds……At least they will not laugh, initially that is………..The state of the NY Yankees & Young Master Hughes is quite fine

  69. Keith--FL June 30th, 2010 at 6:16 am

    I wouldn’t waste anytime while we have Mariano at the top of his game and Jeter, Posada, and Pettite playing good…I would trade Montero and Nunez for Cliff Lee and see if he’ll sign an extension with the Yankees……( if the Mariners want more than that for 2 plus months of Cliff Lee then forget it, let them see if they can do better elsewhere, I doubt it) then trade Javy to an NL team for some bench help and maybe a reliever or for prospects to also ship to Seattle in a 3 team deal and get a bench player from them as well…..I just think Lee would make us extremely tough to beat in the playoffs this year and who knows what can happen next year, etc….and if Burnett doesn’t recover this year then Hughes could be the #4 for the playoffs and if he does, Hughes goes to the bullpen for the playoffs…..

  70. sevrox June 30th, 2010 at 6:58 am

    Anybody think CC will opt out of his contract after 2011? If he does, I think the Yanks should let him go elsewhere – they offered and paid the most for him to begin with, if he wants more, let him go elsewhere.

    However, CC/Lee/Hughes/Pettitte or Javy/Burnout sounds good for a rotation next year.

  71. upstate kate June 30th, 2010 at 7:11 am

    why would CC want to opt out? He has established a home here, he is well paid and has the best chance of winning more WS.

    I didn’t read thru the game comments, hope posters were kind to Phil. At the beginning of the season we would all be thrilled to think he would be 10-2 thru June.

  72. blake June 30th, 2010 at 7:28 am

    Yea, I don’t see CC opting out. He’s in the best place to win and is the ace of the most storied franchise in sports. Also in this economic climate, he would be taking a risk on actually signing for less money than he’s making now. I really think the Yankees would say goodbye if he were to opt out after having gone through that with Arod…especially if they are able to add Cliff Lee.

    Kate, exactly. Phil’s great start has somehow made people forget that this is his first year starting full time in the big leagues. He was always going to struggle some…he’s still trying to put together pitch sequences and he’s still developing his pitches. He’s going to be fine and I think as the year moves on he will begin to make adjustments to correct the issues he’s having.

  73. SJ44 June 30th, 2010 at 7:41 am

    You didn’t miss much not reading the game thread.

    It reached new lows on here.

    I vote for year round school so we can keep the children busy from posting their idiocy on here everytime the Yankees lose a game.

    Phil Hughes, like any other starting pitcher, is going to have a bad night.

    If folks can’t handle that, baseball watching is not for you. It’s time to find another hobby.

  74. Billy D June 30th, 2010 at 7:43 am

    “Anybody think CC will opt out of his contract after 2011?”

    Exceedingly unlikely. No upside to it at all. He’s not going to get more money or more years with the Yankees or with anyone else in this economy.

  75. Billy D June 30th, 2010 at 7:46 am

    “I didn’t read thru the game comments, hope posters were kind to Phil.”

    More kind to Hughes than they were the decision makers who determined his last start should be skipped. As always, way too much was read into a rough night.

  76. blake June 30th, 2010 at 7:48 am

    Question of the day:

    If the Yankees are pretty sure they are keeping Montero behind the plate and Sanchez is as good as everyone says he is….is Romine expendable, and if so…who are you going to trade him for that’s better than Cliff Lee?

    I know Cash doesn’t like to pay twice and who can blame him…I wouldn’t either. I guess it boils down to the question…does the addition of CL increase the chances of winning the WS this year enough to outweigh giving up a prize prospect that you may have no place for anyway?

  77. upstate kate June 30th, 2010 at 7:54 am

    SJ
    my husband is a teacher, I don’t think he would be happy w/ year round school :)

    There were complaints last year about limiting Joba’s innings, how that ruined him. Now there are complaints about skipping entire starts instead for Phil. We are talking about young pitchers who have innings limits. Isn’t it better to skip a start now and have Phil later on when it is more important? Last year people were praising the Tigers for the way they limited Porcello, now that the Yankees are doing the same thing, its the wrong approach? (and I don’t think Porcello’s issues this year have anything to do w/ his innings limits last year)

  78. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 7:57 am

    Keith–FL June 30th, 2010 at 6:16 am
    I wouldn’t waste anytime while we have Mariano at the top of his game and Jeter, Posada, and Pettite playing good…I would trade Montero and Nunez for Cliff Lee and see if he’ll sign an extension with the Yankees……( if the Mariners want more than that for 2 plus months of Cliff Lee then forget it, let them see if they can do better elsewhere, I doubt it) then trade Javy to an NL team for some bench help and maybe a reliever or for prospects to also ship to Seattle in a 3 team deal and get a bench player from them as well…..I just think Lee would make us extremely tough to beat in the playoffs this year and who knows what can happen next year, etc….and if Burnett doesn’t recover this year then Hughes could be the #4 for the playoffs and if he does, Hughes goes to the bullpen for the playoffs…..

    =================================================================

    I hope this isn’t Brian Cashman incognito.

  79. S. Boras June 30th, 2010 at 7:57 am

    keith in FL

    Read very slowly

    Cashman doesn’t pay twice for a player. He doesn’t give up prospects, and pay money for a player. He will pay once, when they sign.

    Even (the much disliked) Scott Boras said in the Hotstove, any franchise
    that does, will damage their franchise.’s farm system, and bottom line.

    Also, if Lee comes CC has the title and money of an Ace, but Lee IS an Ace, by any definition of the word.

  80. Billy D June 30th, 2010 at 7:59 am

    “There were complaints last year about limiting Joba’s innings, how that ruined him. Now there are complaints about skipping entire starts instead for Phil.”

    I think it’s pretty clear the route they decided to go with Hughes is more appropriate than the one they took with Chamberlain last year. Last night, people were frustrated Hughes was getting cuffed around by a weak offense. His command wasn’t really there and Seattle hit into some decent luck at times. I think with Hughes back on the every 5th day program, we’ll see a couple solid starts leading up to the break.

  81. SJ44 June 30th, 2010 at 8:00 am

    Blake,

    That’s what makes it interesting from the Yankees perspective.

    You have three upper level catching prospects AND a quality backup catcher in Cervelli.

    Four guys for maybe 2 spots in two years.

    That makes one expendable, while still having one guy in reserve in the minors.

    They all aren’t going to stay here.

    Which one(s) will go, and for whom, is going to be interesting to watch.

  82. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 8:00 am

    With the way the economy is, you don’t actually believe that Sabathia is going to get a better contract of 4 years at $22 mil a year, do you?

  83. NYYROC June 30th, 2010 at 8:01 am

    I’m a fan of PH so it was tough to watch him struggle but every player has bad games. It is just part of baseball. He’s tough and I’m sure he’ll work hard and bounce back in his next start. He’s had 13 starts that ranged from OK to great and one bad one. Can’t complain about that. Struggling, learning and bouncing back are all parts of the learning process in his devlopment. He might want to change his mix/ pitching pattern as it seems hitters are on to him. But when Hughes has his stuff/ command it doesn’t matter what the hitters do, he dominates. He just needs to sharpen his command.

  84. upstate kate June 30th, 2010 at 8:10 am

    NYYROC
    yes, I totally agree

  85. blake June 30th, 2010 at 8:10 am

    SJ,
    I agree and its what’s so exciting about the current state of the Yankees…their farm system is giving them options. If Montero can catch for just a few years then potentially Sanchez could take over around the time Teixera’s contract is ending and Montero could move to 1B…I know that’s a lot of ifs but its what the Yanks have right now, a lot of possibilities to consider.

  86. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 8:13 am

    Montero’s defense over the last few months has actually been pretty good…especially digging pitches out of the dirt and blocking the plate. He close to fearless at blocking the plate. Very few attemps at sweep tags. I’ve also been pretty impressed by his ability to hold on to foul tips.

    His hitting has really picked up, too. Not just the hits, but, the quality of the at bats. He’s walking more and more and more of the outs are hard hit. I’m anxious to get down to Tampa and not only see a couple of the FSL Tampa team, but, the Tampa rookie team. It appears that they have a couple of high average mashers in Sanchez and Nunez on that team.

  87. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 8:15 am

    William, he has not been good, but to say he’s been almost as bad as AJ is absolutely not true………not even close.

    Phil’s stuff is diminished – clearly, since his strikeouts are down. His command has beenn off for almost two months. He still relies way too much on his FB/cutter (the fact that when he seemed to have his change down in ST he called that his 3rd best pitch tells me that he’s fallen out of love with his curve) and he has trouble with 2 outs and with 2 strikes. He’s got a lot of stuff to work on, but with all that, he’s been bad/mediocre in 3/8 starts. The other starts, he was able to work without his best stuff and/or (in 2 of them) he had very good stuff. He’s not AJ-like at this point.

  88. ---.---. June 30th, 2010 at 8:18 am

    What’s going to hurt CC , (if he should opt-out,) is that high Era, it’s a glaring eye sore for all he does for this team, is so un Ace like.

    Joe better have Lee on the All Star team, I’d loe to see him against Ubaldo Jimenez, and or Halladay, that would be a match up to see!

  89. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 8:18 am

    Also, bloggers are frustrated because they feel Phil is not evolving at all – which I can see their point. He goes out there time after time and tries to bully them with his FB; in that way, the pen was not good for him. He forgets that he does not throw 95 or 96 as a starter and can not just blow hitters away. He’s also not in the minor leagues anymore, where he could dominate even without his best stuff. I appreciate that he’s confident, but that confidence may be what’s hurting him if he thinks that he’s good enough to survive with 2 pitches. The curve is just not that good of a pitch for him anymore and he has got to work on that- nevermind the change at this point.

    I don’t see CC opting out at all; why would he? He’s happy here.

  90. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 8:20 am

    It’s really too bad that another AA catcher, Jose Gil hasn’t hit for a higher average. He’s a good defensive catcher with an outstanding arm. He’s also got really good power. It’s offensive consistency that’s hurting him, but, still, he hasn’t had a steady job because who’s alwaysben paired with. He’s just 23 years old, though.

  91. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 8:22 am

    It’s not just that Phil had a bad night, it’s that people are seeing a pattern with him and they don’t see him adjusting. It’s the same thing: he’s trying to get by with almost all FB and cutters (which is a FB, so it’s almost like one pitch, not two). They are frustrated that he’s not making any progress in that area. Teams started adjusting back with the Detroit game and since then he’s pitched ok – not awful, but not that good. He’s only had one really good start since then – the O’s game at home. He does need to get his command back – that’s been MIA.

    That said, the usual suspects were completely overthetop – but people need to distinguish between posters who are making nonsensical comments and those who are genuinely pointing out what’s up with Phil

  92. SJ44 June 30th, 2010 at 8:24 am

    His stuff isn’t diminshed and his command hasn’t been off for two months.

    Did you watch the game last night? He was throwing 92-94 and had great movement on his fastball. Really, too much movement because he was overthrowing and the ball was running back over the plate. That’s what happens when you are a bit too strong.

    Strikeouts are down because he is pitching more to contact. Which, for a kid with his stuff, is a good thing.

    The cutter wasn’t there last night. It happens.

    Betsy, he’s a fastball/cutter pitcher. That’s what he has evolved into and that’s why he has had the success he has had.

    His curveball and change are secondary pitches. They aren’t the “key” to his success.

    Even if he throws them more, if he can’t locate his fastball and cutter effectively, he will have off nights.

    If it was, nobody would be in panic mode today.

  93. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 8:25 am

    People that expect a young 23 year old pitcher to go from bullpen to a 20 game winner and a low to mid 2 ERA are both unreasonable and illogical. All that was ever expected of him this year was a 12-14 win season, 175 innings with a high 3, low 4 ERA and good strikeout to walks ratio. anything above that would be gravvy. To expect more is ridiculous.

  94. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 8:26 am

    Today is a good day to avoid WFAN because you know they are going to blame the Yankees for taking Phil off his routine, but Joe himself said that the reason they skipped him now was because he’d not been sharp. The extra rest would have caused Phil to lack some command, but I don’t think it would have caused that type of performance – it was a long time in coming. In his other bad starts, he contained the real damage to one bad inning (usually his last). Last night, he couldn’t do that. Phil did not have a good FB last night despite the rest; he said it lacked his usual life – therefore the Yanks need to prepare themselves for this when they skip him again. Since they are doing this for his future, it’s clear that immediate gains (winning) are not their priority – and that’s what people need to understand. If they sacrifice a few games, so be it.

  95. Billy D June 30th, 2010 at 8:27 am

    “He’s walking more and more and more of the outs are hard hit”

    Glad to see Montero walk a few times this week. He had gone about 18-19 games without a walk before last Sunday (6/27). Seems to be coming together for him again.

  96. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 8:27 am

    —.—. June 30th, 2010 at 8:18 am
    What’s going to hurt CC , (if he should opt-out,) is that high Era, it’s a glaring eye sore for all he does for this team, is so un Ace like.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    What “high ERA”?

    Go tell your mommy to change your diaper.

  97. Billy D June 30th, 2010 at 8:30 am

    “Today is a good day to avoid WFAN because you know they are going to blame the Yankees for taking Phil off his routine”

    I suspect today is going to be very much about the upcoming NBA free agency-palooza on sports talk radio.

  98. SJ44 June 30th, 2010 at 8:30 am

    Betsy,

    You worry too much about bloggers opinions on Phil Hughes.

    Anybody who thinks he isn’t evolving knows nothing about pitching.

    Roy Halladay is a fastball, cutter pitcher. He’s “ok” isn’t he?

    It’s not about how many pitches you throw, velocity, or how many times you throw all of your pitches, it’s about COMMAND.

    If you have good command, you can get big league hitters out on one pitch…..a well placed fastball.

  99. Joe from Long Island June 30th, 2010 at 8:32 am

    Wow, new lows on the blog during a tough game…I didn’t think that was possible.

    Interesting thought about Javy to the Mets. That would work as a three-way, theoretically, though it would have to get over the reluctance to deal with them. Not impossible, especially since George is not controlling these things as much anymore. I wouldn’t put anything past Cash, if he thought it would help the team.

    As SJ indicated, it’s nice when you have the chips, and are not desperate – it gives you options.

  100. Joe from Long Island June 30th, 2010 at 8:32 am

    I’d always heard that the best pitch is a well-placed fastball.

    Off to work.

  101. Is he made of glass? June 30th, 2010 at 8:34 am

    Expected Fielding Independent Pitching. This is an experimental stat that adjusts FIP and ?normalizes? the home run component. Research has shown that home runs allowed are pretty much a function of flyballs allowed and home park, so xFIP is based on the average number of home runs allowed per outfield fly. Theoretically, this should be a better predicter of a pitcher?s future ERA.

    So, for lack of a realistic stat, it’s time to start implementing theoretical ones. When all the normal stats are worse, with less innings to boot, the research based prediction stats are the ones to turn to. Basically, just turn to stats, and keep scrolling pages until you find one that suits your argument.

  102. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 8:34 am

    Not sure if things are clicking because of gained experience, someone changed Montero or he’s healthy, but, the last two weeks look much like the rest of his career numbers.

    On the other front, in the Trenton double header, Laird had an RBI single in each game of the split. He did however make a 2 run error on a tough try at third that opened the door for the loss.

    Melancon was really knocked around in the Scranton game. .2 innings, 1 hit, 3 runs, 3 walks, 1 hit batter and 1 strikeout. 36 pitches, 14 strikes.

  103. 86w183 June 30th, 2010 at 8:34 am

    I hope the Yanks have learned something from both the Joba and Phil experiences.

    If you are going to have a starter on a hard inning limit it would be better to bring the guy along slowly in the spring, have extended spring training or what have you and target him to begin his season at whatever point in May they can keep going through the rest of the season.

    It just doesn’t make sense to open the year with someone as a starter knowing you are going to mess with his routine at some point.

    SJ — I disagree about Hughes and his curveball. Yes the fastball and cutter are one, two but he is at his best when he is using that curve effectively. It IS the pitch that can make him great. He’s just okay as a two pitch guy.

  104. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 8:35 am

    SJ, Phil said his FB wasn’t good – he said it himself, that it lacked his usual explosiveness or whatever; I didn’t just make that up. He may have had his usual velocity, but without that late life, it’s just an ordinary FB.
    You said this in ST and I still disagree – I do not think he can live up to his potential with 2 pitches. Yes, I know about Nolan Ryan and some others you listed once. Phil is not Ryan or any of those pitchers……… How many top pitchers in the game get by with 2 pitches? None. I still think he needs his curve. Of course he’ll struggle when he doesn’t have his FB and cutter, his two primary pitches – most pitchers will. The Yankees know that in order to be a top pitcher, you need multiple weapons; I’m sure they don’t all have to be plus-plus, but pitchers need to have options.

    As to pitching more to contact, what makes you say that? Is he throwing more two seamers? That doesn’t really make sense. I mean, if Phil is sticking with 2 pitches because it worked for him before, why would he go away from being a swing and miss guy?

    Gutierrez’ quote about how they basically knew he was just going to throw a FB says it all.

  105. Giuseppe Franco June 30th, 2010 at 8:36 am

    Bill Madden has some breaking news this morning….

    Madden: Yanks could lure Lee as free agent

    Man, that’s some Woodward and Bernstein inside journalism there. It’s not like every news outlet in NY and elsewhere has already reported numerous times for months that the Yanks have essentially made Lee their #1 target in the offseason.

    Good job, Bill. No wonder I never read anything you have to say.

  106. 86w183 June 30th, 2010 at 8:40 am

    GB 7 —

    One hit in two innings is not getting “knocked around”. It looks like Melancon just screwed himself up with four freebies ( 3 walks, 1 HBP).

    Can’t see the Yanks trading for Lee without moving Vazquez. They’re not sending Hughes to the pen again. Does Vazquez, Romine and Nunez get it done? If so, I’d be tempted. It appears that Seattle wants a C and SS if they can get them.

  107. Is he made of glass? June 30th, 2010 at 8:40 am

    Phil Hughes, like any other starting pitcher, is going to have a bad night.

    Except in this instance it’s not a “bad night”. If you actually care to look at the numbers, Phil’s first six games is all that’s carrying him right now. Like Tampa, it’s the start that’s keeping them in it – not how they’ve done over the past six weeks.
    I hope he’s turning it around, or begins to, but honestly, he drew a crappy card last night with Lee.

  108. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 8:40 am

    SJ, I happen to agree with those bloggers…….and Phil isn’t Roy Halladay (I’m sure Roy throws other pitches as well – even though he is mainly FB/cutter).

    I agree that command is the most important thing, but I agree with 86 – Phil is going to be just ok with 2 pitches. The league adjusted to him, now he has to adjust back.

  109. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 8:42 am

    Billy I hope so, lol. I have low expectations for the Knicks, lol

  110. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 8:42 am

    Madden has always been ahead of the crowd. He makes Loopica, Matthews, Verducci, Heyman and the rest look like school children. Of course so does the kid that’s writing about the bad food in the cafeteria at the local junior high school in the Bobcat Banter, so, that’s not the best compliment.

  111. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 8:43 am

    So Sherman wants the Yankees to offer up Montero like they did for Halladay and Lee before and then possibly stick Phil in the pen – oh, that’s a great development plan for Phil.

  112. Betsy - Hughes rules (pleading the Fifth) June 30th, 2010 at 8:43 am

    Later!

  113. SJ44 June 30th, 2010 at 8:43 am

    No it doesn’t Betsy.

    Hitters ALWAYS look fastball and adjust off it because it’s easier to do than looking curveball and adjusting to hard stuff.

    The Gutierrez quote is Hitting 101, not some great revelation on how to hit Phil Hughes.

    Roy Halladay is predominantly a two pitch pitcher.

    So is Cliff Lee. In fact, most of what Lee threw last night were fastballs.

    Most of the good pitchers in the game are essentially two pitch pitchers. Meaning, 80-85% of the pitches they throw are two pitches.

    Very, very few guys have 3-4 great pitches. Even fewer spread them out evenly.

    Lacking late life comes from overthrowing.

    He was too strong last night. Natural since he missed a start.

    He doesn’t have to re-vamp what’s worked for him because of it.

  114. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 8:44 am

    86w183 June 30th, 2010 at 8:40 am
    GB 7 —

    One hit in two innings is not getting “knocked around”. It looks like Melancon just screwed himself up with four freebies ( 3 walks, 1 HBP).

    Can’t see the Yanks trading for Lee without moving Vazquez. They’re not sending Hughes to the pen again. Does Vazquez, Romine and Nunez get it done? If so, I’d be tempted. It appears that Seattle wants a C and SS if they can get them.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Take notice of the decimal point in front of the 2. That’s two thirds of an inning. He stunk up the joint…period.

  115. Billy D June 30th, 2010 at 8:45 am

    “If you are going to have a starter on a hard inning limit it would be better to bring the guy along slowly in the spring,”

    They kinda did that. Hughes made only three April starts, the 1st being on 4/15. Part of the decision to skip his most recent start may be that he exceeded the organization’s expectations by averaging 6.4 innings per start (read: he’s regularly pitching into or thru the 7th inning) thus leaving them a little surprised by his total innings in mid to late June. Using the skipped start, which gave him 9 days between starts this time around, and the allstar break, which will give him another 10, they should be able to keep him in the regular rotation the rest of the way without exceeding whatever the established innings limit is.

  116. Phil is the man, AJ is acting like a BOY June 30th, 2010 at 8:45 am

    BoSux are still a full 3 games back of us in the loss column and we can push that to 7 plus by the All Star break as we finish up this homestand strong, then travel out to Oakland and Seattle and push around a couple of teams that are really not very good. Of course, I fully expect the BoSux ‘luck’ to run out soon, as the Rays start to actually play them tough ( they actually finish the 1st half on the road vs Tampa and Toronto ) Also, gotta love the dolts over in Beantown that have put both of their brain cells together and figured out that having their best hitter ( Beltre @ .349 ) hit in the 6 hole is where you get the most production…..idiots ! :-)

  117. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 8:47 am

    why would Seattle take on Vazquez’ contract for more money, and why is there such a desire to trade Eduardo Nunez, who is the best shortstop in the system and in the International League?

  118. Giuseppe Franco June 30th, 2010 at 8:48 am

    Count me as one of those people who think Hughes needs to incorporate his curve and change up more often.

    He doesn’t have to throw them all the time but I do think he needs to force the hitters to think a little more.

    As nasty as Burnett’s stuff can be, one of his issues (outside of lack of command) is that he doesn’t throw the change up enough to give the hitters a difference look.

    It’s not the end of the world by any means, but Girardi did make it a point to tell the media in ST that one of the big reasons he made the starting rotation was the evolution of his new change up.

    I suppose you can take that for what it’s worth.

  119. Is he made of glass? June 30th, 2010 at 8:48 am

    They’re actually one game back and 2 in the loss column.

    Seven games by the all-star break? Really?

  120. Billy D June 30th, 2010 at 8:49 am

    “BoSux are still a full 3 games back of us in the loss column”

    Boston is 2 games back in the AILC

  121. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 8:51 am

    I don’t care if the Yankees wait until the last day of the season before winning the AL East and each phase of the post season series go the limits as long as the Yankees win.

  122. Aaron June 30th, 2010 at 8:54 am

    Finally, something I can agree with GreenBeret7 on.

  123. SJ44 June 30th, 2010 at 8:57 am

    GF,

    He should throw it more. However, if he doesn’t locate his fastball and cutter well, he will have off nights.

    Phil has always had better command than AJ. That’s the big distinction between the two.

    If Phil’s command is sharp, he succeed with an 85/15 ratio fastballs-cutters to curveballs-changeups.

    Just as guys like Halladay and Lee do when they are right.

  124. MTU (aka GBURL) June 30th, 2010 at 8:59 am

    Morning everyone.

    So Phil lost. So what. He’s now 10-2.

    He was off. So what. Bad night. Gonna happen.

    The reality is he just knew I was tired and he took mercy on me by sacrificing himself for me so I wouldn’t have to hike to honor him this week.

    It was very kind of him. But he now knows I am ready, willing, and able to continue so next time out it’s back to the usual routine.

    He wins. I hike. Thanks for sparing me a bit Phil. We’ll continue the journey together next time. ;)

  125. blake June 30th, 2010 at 9:03 am

    Hughes isn’t a two pitch pitcher…he’s a 4 pitch pitcher that’s still learning when to throw each. As he gains More experience and more confidence in his secondary pitches he will use them more. Up until recently he hasn’t had to…this isn’t spring training where you play around with pitches just to work on them…these games count and you throw what’s winning you ballgames. He struggled last night because of his location more than the types of pitches he was throwing…that said I do think he will start mixing in more secondary stuff as the year goes on and the need arises. Hughes isn’t the first young guy to struggle at bit…price, Buchholtz, Greinke, Halladay, etc….all did.

  126. Giuseppe Franco June 30th, 2010 at 9:06 am

    SJ,

    I don’t disagree with your premise.

    However, the comparisons to Halladay and Lee fall a little short because Hughes isn’t at that level….yet. You’re talking about two of the best pitchers in MLB and neither of them had that kind of impeccable command at 24 yrs old. It took years for them to evolve into command freaks.

    That’s not to say Hughes can’t ever be an elite pitcher because I believe he can. But until he gains that experience over time, I think he needs to throw his other pitches more often to keep hitters guessing.

    I don’t want people to misinterpret my posts and think I’m turning sour on Hughes because I’m not. But I’ve been saying for the last month that he needs to throw his other pitches more often because he can’t always rely on two pitches.

  127. vinny-b June 30th, 2010 at 9:06 am

    an idea:

    invite all the NYY sports writers (except Chad & Sam) for ride on a boat. When get to an island in middle of the Pacific Ocean, let them all get off. Then drive away the boat.

  128. 86w183 June 30th, 2010 at 9:09 am

    GB 7 —

    My mistake on the Melancon outing as far as innings are concerned. Yes he was brutal, but I will never consider giving up one hit getting “knocked around”.

    I don’t have “such a desire” to trade Nunez. I just don’t make inane one-sided trade suggestions. Getting Lee now would have a helluva cost and I threw out what I thought might be realistic. Why do you and others here treat every trade suggestion/idea/concept as a desire to get rid of someone? It was the same in discussions about trading (or not trading) Joba, Phil, Cano, AJax and others.

    The inclusion of Vazquez it what makes it work for the Yankees and is the price Seattle would have to pay (in my world) to get Romine and Nunez. I’m sure they would insist on $$$ to cover the salary difference but it’s not a huge amount of $$.

    In case you hadn’t noticed the Yanks really don’t have a spot for Nunez.

  129. vinny-b June 30th, 2010 at 9:11 am

    “In case you hadn’t noticed the Yanks really don’t have a spot for Nunez”
    ————————————————————

    they will.

    Rivera will have a longer career then Jeter. Mark it down

  130. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 9:12 am

    For those with interest, Brackman pitches for Trenton today with a 12:05 PM start time. The game is free on internet radio feed.

  131. Giuseppe Franco June 30th, 2010 at 9:13 am

    BTW, I don’t think Lee was his usual dominant self last night. In fact, I think he got lucky a few times.

    The Yanks actually had some good ABs against him and hit the ball hard numerous times. Unfortunately, several were right at defenders.

  132. MTU (aka GBURL) June 30th, 2010 at 9:13 am

    Blake-

    If 10-2 at the ASB is struggling I’d like more of it.

    He had a bad game. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

    Not you, but maybe some people’s expectations for YMH have gotten
    out of line.

    He is 24 years old pitching in the AL East.

    If he finishes the season with 15 wins that would be really remarkable.

    As we both know He is stil learning. And learn he will.

    You actually learn more from failure than you do from success.

    Besides. Phil knew I was getting tired also. So he gave a week off because he thought I needed it. He’s a good kid. Didn’t want me to peak (pun intended) too soon. :)

  133. Aaron June 30th, 2010 at 9:15 am

    Also, in case anyone hasn’t noticed, Lee just completely dominated the Yankees last night – you’re not getting him for a package filled with, well, filler. He’s going to command the best prospect from the Yankees, and that’s that. NO General Manager is going to deal with Cashman to help the mighty get mighty(er) in any way. Philly did it a few years back with Abreju, but only because Boston spurned them in that deal. There isn’t a GM out there that is going to make a move to help NY for anything short of their best piece or a few pieces just below that. Nunez is not the centerpiece of any deal involving Lee.

  134. Shame Spencer June 30th, 2010 at 9:16 am

    “If you are going to have a starter on a hard inning limit it would be better to bring the guy along slowly in the spring, have extended spring training or what have you and target him to begin his season at whatever point in May they can keep going through the rest of the season. ”

    86 – Here, here!!

  135. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 9:17 am

    Eduardo Nunez will replace Pena a the yanks utility player next season, if not sooner and will take Jeter’s position when the time comes. His bat and speed is that good, and his defense has been better than any other ss in the league. Pena will become expendable. They can trade Luis Numez is the need a ss better than Pena.

  136. MaineYankee June 30th, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Aaron

    That deal with Philly was more a salary dump than anything else.

  137. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2010 at 9:21 am

    NYY hit a few easy bouncers, but, the hits were clocked pretty well. Lee pitched pretty well, but, there were some bullets that he got away with. Rodriguez’ shot to left center still makes me wonder why it didn’t carry. Granderson smoked him 3 of 4 times. swisher just swishered him. He wasn’t dominant.

  138. Giuseppe Franco June 30th, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Lee didn’t completely dominate the Yanks last night. He did give up 4 runs, which is something he’d only done twice this season entering last night.

  139. Aaron June 30th, 2010 at 9:22 am

    He had a bad game. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

    Boston, the Mets, and the Astros and now the Mariners. It’s not like the “sooner or later” really applies here.

    He’s a command pitcher, and when he takes time off, he’s going to lose some command, and it showed. I don’t know why we are all acting surprised. In fact, there were three days last week exclusively when we all talked about how this would affect him as a pitcher.

    He doesn’t throw a fastball he can live on (hello, AJ), so when he’s not mixing it up, and hitting his spots, he’s going to get hit. That is exclusively the reason that this year will be Buchholz’ first full year in the majors – he had command issues and Boston kept sending him down to work that out. It happens. When Buchholz was 23, he was only given 17 or so starts, and most of those were fill-ins. Last year was his first where he actually had a spot.

    It happens, and will continue to happen. It takes time. Not everyone is Strausburg (sp).

  140. Aaron June 30th, 2010 at 9:26 am

    That deal with Philly was more a salary dump than anything else…

    I agree, however, the first team that Philly dealt with was Boston, who refused to give up players that Philly wanted, so they immediately turned around and offered him for much less to NY, out of spite (I think). They got much less from NY than they were asking from Boston in that deal, and my overall point is that is what has to happen since every GM thinks that NY’s farm system is a vending machine for them to pick and choose what they want and return what will likely cost the Yankees twice in the long run.
    Unless Lee decides to offer a window, he will not come here. I cannot see why he wouldn’t, being as he’ll have to face Tampa and Boston (and to a lesser extent – Toronto) four or five times in the next four months, which could ultimately, hurt his leverage as a FA in NY.
    Say he comes here, and gets bombed a couple times by Boston. Or Tampa wins three games against him. You think he can demand the same money in December? He’d be stupid not to talk to NY right now before he takes that chance.

  141. blake June 30th, 2010 at 9:28 am

    MTU,

    Yea I think Phil just wanted you to have a break;)

    Obviously, by struggling I meant at times and in some games. He’s pitched better than I think anyone could have predicted this season. Many of us talked at length in the preseason about tempering the expectations for Hughes…his great start just threw that out the window for a lot of people it seems.

  142. 86w183 June 30th, 2010 at 9:28 am

    Nunez is too talented to be a utility guy. He’s more valuable as a trade chip, but certainly he would be a huge upgrade over Pena/Russo.

  143. blake June 30th, 2010 at 9:35 am

    The Yanks did have some good ABs against Lee as the recident wisemen GB and GF said. It was just one of those nights. Granderson with a few more good ABs against a good lefty.

    Another interesting matchup tonight…Javy is a totally different type pitcher than Hughes at this point in his career so we’ll see if the Mariners make the adjustment.

  144. raymagnetic June 30th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Phil Hughes pitched 7 innings and gave up 3 runs against the Mets. Not good enough?

    In Hughes last five starts he’s had 2 bad ones, 1 good one, 1 very good one and 1 great one.

    The expectations for Hughes have grown way out of proportion I think.

    Hughes throws his curveball 13.5% of the time this year. Not good enough?

    He throws his fastball around 61.7% of the time. Too much?

    CC throws his fastball 67% of the time BTW.

    A fastball and a cutter is not the same pitch. A cutter is more of a slider than it is a fastball.

    Carry on.

  145. Mitch June 30th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    just when Hughes was in a groove the Yanks screw with it. Do you want a dominat Hughes that MAY fade at the end or a mediocre Hughes all year with his new rules? Rules worked great with Joba. he’s average at best now. Is it just my perception, or are the Yanks the only team that breaks things that aren’t broken? How much do you want to bet that Hughes is average for the rest of the year after this experiment. Hughes should get extra starts instead of AJ. Now there’s someone that should skip a few starts.

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