An unusual deadline?
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Jul 09, 2010 
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I remember Joe Torre once talking about how, when he was managing the Mets back in 1979, the Phillies traded (actually sold) Jose Cardenal to the Mets in between games of a doubleheader and so Cardenal just walked across the hall from one clubhouse to the other. Strange as it was, Cardenal dressed for the second game and Torre nearly played him but Cardenal asked out and Torre accommodated the request.
Depending on how things go this afternoon, there could be a similar situation out in Seattle. According to ESPN’s Buster Olney, the Yankees have told the Mariners that their current offer – said to feature Jesus Montero – is the best they’ll get, and they want an answer before tonight’s game since Lee is scheduled to pitch against them.
A few more thoughts and notes from the past few hours:
• Sounds like there is no negotiating window for the Yankees to work out an extension with Lee. I know some of you are surprised/upset by this, but Lee had been pretty clear he wouldn’t do this and the Yankees still will have exclusive negotiating rights with him after the season.
• Don’t forget, by adding Lee now, the Yankees a) won’t lose a draft pick if they sign him this winter; and b) can try and replenish their farm system by moving Javier Vazquez, who is quickly becomes the top pitcher available at the deadline.
• I’ve said for awhile – and written in my column on SNY.tv – that I thought this was something the Yankees had to be in on, mostly because their rotation is strong but hardly a lock (Burnett/Vazquez inconsistency, Hughes innings limits) and – and this can’t be overstated enough – because they play in the toughest division in baseball.
The Rays and Red Sox are not going away and will surely be trying to upgrade at the deadline, so if the Yankees had a chance to add a difference maker by using a position at which they had organizational depth, I say they HAVE to jump on it.
Let’s remember: This isn’t Ted Lilly they’re getting or a reclamation hope like Ben Sheets. It’s one of the premier pitchers in baseball and a guy who has shown he’s got no problem at all when it comes to winning the big game. Obviously there are varying schools of thought on the value of trading prospects for proven commodities, but to me this is a no-brainer, especially when you add in the pluses of the upcoming offseason (exclusive first rights, no lost draft picks, etc.).
Nice post Sam
Haha Sam, look at how wrong you are.
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....Yu0usc68YP
Update from Sherman
Put another way, if the Yankees weren’t SKY HIGH on Austin Romine, there’s no way in bloody he11 they do this deal while Jorge Posada is on his last leg.
Austin Romine is the catcher of the future.
DEAL WITH IT!
austin jackson II?
I am not happy giving up Montero for Lee but I understand it ? if we can sign Lee long term. I could even see giving up Montero for a rental player if it was for a position of NEED. I do not understand dealing Montero for Lee if Lee is only a rental.
We have a starting rotation that has *3* All Stars on it. We do not NEED Cliff Lee. We are already the favorites to repeat. Lee makes us the OVERWHELMING favorite to repeat. But then next year we might not have him and we have no Montero. Don?t like that at all.
Get me Lee for a 4-5 extension, I?ll give Montero. No extension, no dice.
I’m hardly getting any work done today. LOL
Charlie – so what’s your solution for the “future” in 3 years when Romine is catching and Tex is still playing 1B? come on swami, impress me.
ps. if you say montero can dh, you lose.
—
Lets say Montero doesn’t have a future on the team like you assume. This may not be the case because maybe he sticks at catcher, maybe he splits time between C and DH, whatever. But lets assume he has no future here.
The point is, Montero’s current value is vastly more than 2 months of Cliff Lee. It’s not even close. If Montero is blocked he should be traded but not for a 2 month rental. Why not trade him for a SS prospect or something like that? At least then you are getting equal value and something that might fill a future hole.
Right now there is no hole at starting pitcher. Lee compared to Hughes/Vazquez is a tiny upgrade. Save Montero for a trade that will actually help the team in a meaningful way.
joelsherman1: This will be a 2- or 3-prospect deal from #Yankees to #Mariners. Seattle really values bats of Montero/Adams for 2011 lineup
Javier Vazquez, who is quickly becomes the top pitcher available at the deadline.
*********
That’s another advantage of moving early on Lee before the deadline. Once removed from the market, the remaining pitchers increase in value.
I’m anxious to see the offers for Vazquez when they start coming in.
Joelsherman1 This will be a 2- or 3-prospect deal from #Yankees to #Mariners. Seattle really values bats of Montero/Adams for 2011 lineup
Cashman could also orchestra a nifty 3-teamer that sends Vazquez to a team for prospects, then they use those prospects to get a RH hitter to play a corner OF/DH.
You can add to this the probability that the Yankees must believe that they might lose Lee if they do not sign him now.
That Lee and CC have had dinner together.
And that the Yankees must feel Montero is expendable considering their stable of other catching prospects.
They must view Lee as a younger version of Andy Pettitte.
Fascinating.
Sam, great writeup as always. This deal makes sense on so many levels – plus you keep Lee away from the Rays/Twins/Rangers or any other potential post-season matchup.
Nice post but I still don’t like this move. Yea A.J. and Javy aren’t locks but which rotation is? We can win without Lee and yes we can win against any team that might happen to get Lee. This is overkill. It’s too much. We don’t need him this year and I simply believe that keeping Montero in the long term is more valuable than some rented security in the rotation this season and this season alone.
BD – they probably think that they were going to sign him anyway, we won’t lose a draft pick to do so if he’s on our team. we either get prospects back for javy/whatever we trade away, or get picks for javy/werth when they walk after the season…
so we get a stud, sign a stud, move a blocked prospect for more prospects, still have our franchise catcher, still have our infield locked up for the next 5 years
yeah, this is all so terrible for us :p
Can we at least agree that if Cliff Lee does sign an extension, it’s not a terrible deal?
The whole Montero+ for a rental is obviously a bit much.
I imagine the Yankees would have some knowledge that Lee wants to stay with the Yankees and they have hashed out a ballpark price range already that Lee will agree to.
(I realize the thought is they can sign him no matter what after the season, but suppose that isn’t 100% true.)
GREAT deal by the Mariners here. Looks to me like they’ve found their starting catcher and second baseman for next year. They should be back on the road to contending very shortly.
Haven’t thought much of Jack Z, but this is a coup. Seattle fans should be elated.
I think it’s a great deal, if it gets done. The deadline is important, because other teams will try to put better packages together, to stop the Yankees deal. Romaine is the catcher of the future, Montero is not good enough on defense, and the Yankees can carry a weaker hitting catcher with this line-up. Look for Vazquez to Philly for Werth. Phillies say they think Werth is over rated, and will not sign him as an FA. Werth having problems in the club house, I guess that happens when you sleep with a teammates wife, or so they say.
YankeesWFAN Wow! Yanks move fast. If this deal goes through Cashman may have pulled off his best deal ever. Shock considering Yanks recent style.
Okay, so riddle me this:
If the Yankees have some insider knowledge that Lee wants to be a Yankee and will sign an extension with them, then why in the world would they not believe that he wouldn’t test the market and be likely to join them as a free agent?
Who is going to outbid the Yankees for him?
Underestimate me at your own peril, fools.
ID,
believe me, a sharp pain shot through my stomach when I saw Montero’s name in the deal as I woke up.
But I’ve said all along, Cliff Lee is a difference maker.
I’ve been on the fence the entire time, but I knew that if the Yanks got Lee this year, their chances of winning another title would go up a good amount.
It’s hard to put a price on that. Is Montero too much? Maybe. Maybe not. If they get the ring, we won’t be crying.
Seattle really values bats of Montero/Adams for 2011 lineup
——————————-
Really? Montero in 2011? Best of luck with that Seattle…. He’s not Heyward.
charlie – you are underestimating 3 months of negotiating a contract with lee, and replacing vaz/pettite next year and the years going forward.
at some point we were going to have to move montero or romine, you don’t hold onto a prospect that can play a positions and DH him, you are killing your own value for the sake of other teams perceived value.
there are exactly 5 stud lefties in baseball, and we will have 2 of them.
nothing wrong with this.
WIN NOW!! WIN NOW!! or we lose all our fans!!
I am all for trading prospects. I understand that a young player is really suspect until they prove it in the majors and many fail to do so, but I believe the amount and type of players we are giving up for what could end up being a 3 or 4 month rental just seems foolish for a organization that for the last 4 or 5 years have been talking about financial restraint and no trading for FA rental. On top of not drafting better young players in the draft (I know a lot of folks love the picks but the question will be what about the known talent that the team choose to by-pass for “value picks” in other words cheaper picks) The team wouldn’t pay top dollar for top young talent but they seemingly go back to their ways of the past by justifying trading young and signing older players because their fans want to win NOW. FOOLISH.
Don’t like it at all.
Lee was on a Seattle radio show the other day and actually approached the Mariners about an extension in spring training and was shot down. So, who knows? If this deal goes through, he may still be open to an extension.
“Don’t forget, by adding Lee now, the Yankees a) won’t lose a draft pick if they sign him this winter”
another key point.
Come on guys. You don’t think Cashman has a “wink wink nod nod” that Lee would sign here after this year? Come on, Lee is ours.
Montero is a good prospect, sure…but pitching wins. Javy will be turned into a corner OF or some bullpen help.
How could you NOT like this deal?!
Lee is a rental because he would have signed as a free agent here anyway. There’s too many contradictions going on here.
You can say that Lee so desperately wants to be a Yankee that he doesn’t want to work out an extension because he’s already given them his assurances that he’ll sign. If you say that, like many of you are, then you CANNOT say that Lee would have done anything but sign here as a free agent.
Oh and another thing. Even if Montero never pans out to be the Yankees everyday catcher in a few years. That’s fine, he will still be an excellent hitting 1B/DH and his stock will only continue to go up. You can trade him later for more prospects or a player you actually need rather than bolstering a already strong rotation. The same rotation that has won more games than any in recent Yankee history and on the team with the best record in the Major League.
This is pure excess and it’s disgusting. We don’t need him!
Do people really see him as only a rental? I mean, come on there’s a value to prospects, but we’re getting the top 3, if not the best, pitcher in the game.
The most likely explanation for Montero being in the trade is that the Mariners (along with almost everyone in baseball) believe he is the real deal and want him more than Romine, NOT that the Yanks secretly believe Romine to be better and have fooled everyone.
And the Yanks are still the most likely to sign Lee in the off-season, whoever Lee goes to.
So if you want this deal to go down, don’t wish away the problems with it. Want it with your eyes open.
Really funny point from Rob NEyer
“…But Vazquez actually makes more money than Lee this season; if the Yankees get Lee and trade Vazquez — even if they have to send some money along in the deal — they can claim that they’ve actually lowered their payroll.”
They lose draft picks if they sign him at the end of the season. They also don’t get the three month exclusive negotiation window.
Also, maybe they just want Lee right now. Whether you think they need him or not is completely irrelevant. The Yankees brass knows a lot more than you do, and all of us here combined.
arno – incorrect, if he comes up and we shoehorn him out of the catcher position, he loses tons of value. he will never be more vauable to the yankees in trades than he is this season.
From the Sherman update: (Thanks Carl)
“1. The Yankees have not asked for a window to negotiate an extension. They believe that they can outbid anyone in the offseason for Lee anyway, so why not see if he likes New York and the Yankees like him before investing the money. ”
So I guess the extension window may not be a stumbling block.
It does seem that the ball is in the Mariner’s court.
I’ll tell you one thing though….If Cliff Lee is no longer a Seattle Mariner by 10:00pm EST, the Yanks chance of winning tonight’s game increases dramatically.
Immediate dividends!
You’ve got to do this deal.
Lee is one of the best pitches in MLB & a difference maker who can & has won the big games.
By getting him you have 3 stud leftys (CC, Andy, & Lee)) for post season play & AJ becomes your #4. He’s a much stronger #4 than a #2.
As it stands right now, you can’t trust AJ or Vasquez in a big game & Phil is unproven with a limit on the number of innings he can pitch this year.
Plus, this allows you to put Phil back in the pen for the stretch drive & post season, so by making this move you are also addressing & strengthening your pen.
Montero’s not going to be a catcher, (too big) and we have Tex for another 5 yrs. at 1B, so where is Montero going to play? at DH? Austine Romine is a better all around prospect and the Yankees catcher of the future.
Gotta get Lee.
Austin Romine is older than Jesus Montero, quite a bit older actually. And he’s a full level behind him, having a GREAT year for himself offensively. Guess what? He’s barely been better offensively than Montero in a terrible year.
Romine might be a nice, Dan Wilson type of catcher in the league. Someone who might luck his way onto an all star team when fans stuff the ballot boxes just like Mariners fans did for, well, Dan Wilson.
Montero has Mike Piazza upside.
charlie – you are underestimating 3 months of negotiating a contract with lee, and replacing vaz/pettite next year and the years going forward.
at some point we were going to have to move montero or romine, you don’t hold onto a prospect that can play a positions and DH him, you are killing your own value for the sake of other teams perceived value.
there are exactly 5 stud lefties in baseball, and we will have 2 of them.
nothing wrong with this.
—
The only benefit of this deal is you replace Vazquez or Hughes with Lee which is a small upgrade, and you don’t lose a first round pick when signing Lee in the offseason. That’s it.
Is that worth 6 years of Montero? No.
6 walks in 103 IP.
6 walks in 103 IP.
6 walks in 103 IP.
Ken_Rosenthal: #Yankees would remain heavy favorites to sign Lee. They were heavy favorites before. Deal would make them practically a lock. #Mariners #MLB
You all know me. I coined the term “prospect hugger” on this blog. I’m more than willing to trade prospects for sure things.
Yet, I don’t do this deal. I don’t understand it. I mean, I understand it, but I don’t see why the starting pitching we already have right now isn’t enough to win another title.
We can sign this player right after the post season and give up nothing.
If Montero turns into a 40HR hitter, this is not a good deal. We’re not talking about some low A ball pitcher that prospect huggers overrate constantly on the blog, we’re talking about an upper level diamond that projects to hit for average and power at the big league and is 20.
I think this deal happens because of Tex, Posada, Jeter and Arod. Cashman knows he can’t give Jesus 1b and he can’t give him DH since all the other old guys need it to lick their wounds during the season.
I’m not going to run into the streets screaming if it happens though because Cliff Lee is an Ace. He’s one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball.
He wants to be here. He has friends on the team. The guy looked like a ornery bulldog pitching for Philly last year and I love that kind of guy.
Still, I was excited to see Montero become a Yankee and become part of the next wave of core players.
Someone, or many, in the Yankee organization have some doubts about him and are willing to roll the dice on him.
Jason Werth #’s.
BA .278
OBP .361
SLG .514
HR 13
RBI 48
This will be the finishing touch in our push for #28.
This deal is all about winning now and Jesus Montero is expendable with Romine and Cervelli. Most likely, Jesus is going to be a mediocre first baseman or a DH. IMO.
Wave, Montero is clearly way more valuable in a trade than Romine. But that does not mean that Montero will end up being a better major league catcher, meaning all-around catcher, than Romine will be. Sherman is saying that the M’s see him as having improved defensively. Perhaps the Yankees don’t agree with that, and don’t project him as someone who can catch games in the majors as soon as next year? Romine seems more likely to be able to do that, in that he is clearly far above Montero defensively and can hit, at least more than Cervelli. The jury is obviously out on whether he can approach a high-level, like a Posada level, offensively in the majors. Montero projects to hit on the level or above the level of Jorge in his career (probably above if you agree with all the comps that have been made to current MLers), but defensively he may project worse than Jorge, from the Yankees perspective.
The Yankees and M’s aren’t going to look at the two players in the same way, since they have two totally different rosters/systems. To me I interpret this as the Yankees feeling that one guy has more value to other teams than to them, and they want to move that guy for someone they very clearly want in their rotation, both this year and for the next 4-5 years.
charlie – fine, keep ignoring half of what i tell you to make your point.
just go pout then.
Wait… if the Yanks make this trade, does that mean they’ll have 9 All Stars?
If the Yankees had any concerns WHATSOEVER with Romine stepping up possibly sooner rather than later even, they would not have dealt Montero. Posada is clearly on his last leg. CLEARLY. If the Mariners asked for Romine, the Yankees still do this deal. They believe in BOTH and therefore can do no wrong. The risk of Posada going down in the near future is REAL.
“The most likely explanation for Montero being in the trade is that the Mariners (along with almost everyone in baseball) believe he is the real deal and want him more than Romine, NOT that the Yanks secretly believe Romine to be better and have fooled everyone.”
READ THE POST ABOVE.
If you are for this deal, don’t rationalize it and explain it away to yourself by foolishly trying to paint Romine as a better prospect than Montero. He isn’t even in the same BALLPARK as Montero is as a prospect and never will be.
The Mariners clearly wanted Montero, the Yankees ceded to their demands.
My opinion? Its a disgusting move. You are entitled to believe its a terrific move and root for Cliff Lee to pitch the Yankees to a title, but don’t try to paint Montero as anything less than he is.
N-E-T-S NETS NETS NETS!
Anybody consider the fact that even if Montero does become the force hes predicted to be that the rest of the team may be too old at that point to compliment him.
Ken_Rosenthal #Yankees do not negotiate with potential free agents during season. That applies to Jeter and Rivera – and would apply to Lee. #MLB
charlie – fine, keep ignoring half of what i tell you to make your point.
just go pout then.
—
I’m ignoring half of what you say because that half is meaningless.
I explained what you do with Montero. Save him for a deal that actually upgrades the team in a meaningful way. Replacing Hughes/Vazquez with Lee is not a meaningful upgrade. Saving Montero and trading him for a SS prospect is.
CAN SOME ONE PLEASE TELL ME THE LAST PLAYER THAT THE YANKEES SIGNED WHO THEY LET LEAVE AFTER TRADING FOR (AND THEY WERE HEALTHY) if brian cashman is going to make a deal for cliff lee he isnt going any where after this season is overr….
lets go yankees…i wonder if the deal goes finale in the next couple hours would lee pitch for us tonight lmaoooo (probably not)
Here is why Montero is getting traded… 65 games, 13 passballs
They must think him sticking at catcher is a lost cause. And if he is a DH/1B he still has value but nowhere near as much as a potential power hitting catcher.
So you know more than the Yankee brass? Go apply for a job there. I’m sure they desperately need your insights.
Wave Your Hat July 9th, 2010 at 11:47 am
I agree Wave!! BTW, I love Montero & I make this deal now!
Wrong. Montero is getting traded because it’s Cliff Lee.
Andrew,
Excellent points.
You have me wondering if the Yankees would even consider trading Romine given his defensive abilities which are major league ready while Posada is breaking down before our eyes.
If this happens I think it can officially be said that we’re back to the early irrational Steinbrenner days with a mere skeleton of a farm system. Presuming this trade goes through, we will have one of the oldest (all starters at least 30 y/o as of 7/21 if Hughes to pen) and most expensive (no comment necessary) rotations in baseball.
“Anybody consider the fact that even if Montero does become the force hes predicted to be that the rest of the team may be too old at that point to compliment him.”
What are you saying? That basically we’re going to be screwed anyway?
Montero will hit but won’t be a great defensive catcher. He’s too big and has mechanical problems. We don’t need another first baseman, on the other hand he might have been a good dH? Lee provides us multiple titles imo. A no brainer my friends.
They have catching depth in the minors. Austin Romine is a stud. Watch this weekend in the Futures Game.
It’s not a rental. He will sign long term with the Yankees.
By getting him now, they keep the draft picks on one of the deepest drafts in years.
They will probably spin Javy for a bat.
Oh, by the way, Lee is a stud.
You make this deal ASAP before Seattle changes it’s mind.
Having Cliff Lee on your team is a meaningful upgrade no matter who you are. Moreso in the case of a WIN-NOW team.
Lee is a difference maker and please Cash lets get it done. Our rotation will be sick! The idea of a rental is of course always going play, but Lee will let the market drive his next payday. If the Yanks want him bad enough they will pay the man. I like Montero; however, this is a deal that could set the rotation for the next five years, that along with a solid infield will be very solid. Trade Vazquez for some prospects and a solid reliever that will help and I think we will be fine. If Romine wasn’t in our organization I would be hesitant to go forward with a deal like this….
BloggingBombers
Cliff Lee to the Yankees is “imminent” according to a source. Here’s my question: Who is out of the rotation? This doesn’t make much sense.
Done deal. Great trade by C-Money.
What people are over looking is the fact Lee asked the M’s for an extension, and was turned down at the start of the season. What happens if the Rangers, Twins or another club got him this year, and they were able to get him that extension, no Lee as an FA to sign in the off season. The draft will be deep with talent next year, and now the Yankees don’t have to lose a draft pick to get Lee. Think of how many “sure things” did not pan out at the major league level. This will be a great deal, and our farm system is deep at the catcher position.
Report says the yankees won’t start lee against seattle this weekend. A gentlemens agreement.
YankeesWFAN Last week I said to a GM “Yanks don’t need Cliff Lee.” He said to me “Everybody needs a Cliff Lee!”.
SJ44,
Do you agree with Sam that Javy becomes the top pitcher available on the trade block?
Which teams would be interested?
How much talent can Cashman get for him?
“I agree Wave!! BTW, I love Montero & I make this deal now!”
RayVT, I don’t agree but I respect your opinion.
stop saying that lee is not a significant upgrade over vaz/hughes. vaz is gone in 3 months. we get type-a draft picks for him. we don’t lose a draft pick for signing lee if he’s on our roster. montero has LESS value to us than other teams because we have no where to play him.
don’t justify this by what you “think” montero will turn out to be, you are not a pro scout and i do not care what you think.
why sj44 why?
This is a horrible deal.
6 years of Montero = 2 months of Cliff Lee ? No. Just no.
This is the worst deal I can remember the Yankees ever making. Just awful.
Call me crazy, but I don’t like this deal. Why the need to WIN NOW when we just won last year? We’re going to get him during the off season. Why trade prospects now? I support the Yankees in all that they do (except that God awful Nick Johnson signing), but I don’t think this is the right move to make right now.
cowherd just said Lebron would have paid 12 million more in taxes on his contract had it been in NY.
Its too bad, I was actually more excited about rooting for the Yankees than any time I could remember in the past.
Back to 2002-2008.
This one’s gonna hurt for a long, long, long time.
All sounds good but this: Yanks biggest weakness now is the bullpen and the bench. This move wouldn’t help either. “Prospects” now aren’t what they were 5 or 10 years ago. Talent is evaluated a lot better than it used to be. Take a look at the people in Montero’s class as ranked by Baseball America the past couple of years. Use that as a comparison. Plus, the Yanks last three drafts, their top picks have been HORRIBLE. Getting two firsts if Lee walks is like getting 3rd rounders the way the yanks draft. This is a real mortgaging the future deal.
That being said, I like Romine and he’s hitting a ton but he’s not as special as Montero could be (G-C said “Piazza upside”, may not THAT much upside, but we’ll say at least Posada-like numbers and Jorge isn’t exactly Ivan Rodriguez in his prime BEHIND the plate defensively).
Vasquez is “shaky”, right? who’s to say he isn’t shaky during the deadline and his value plummets? Plus Vazquez instantly has less value than Lee because there are two fewer trading partners (Boston and Tampa) in the mix + probably not dealing to the Mets either. So really, that kills Vasquez’s value if Phillies don’t want to give up too much (Phillies have been very shrewd and smart, didn’t give up Drabek yet – you aren’t getting much) so a Vasquez trade will not get you back as much as you think in the minor leagues.
Now the Yanks would have 2 #1s, put Hughes in the bullpen and risk ruining his career (other than Wainwright, what young pitcher who went back and forth from starter to bullpen ever developed into a good starter?) In two years Hughes could put up Lee like numbers – if you do the trade you just will have “Jay Buhner squared” mashing the ball in Seattle instead of New York, plus an aging Lee or 2 wasted first round picks.
Peter Gammons can’t take much more of this.
The poor old guy should have just been a Yanks fan.
Loving the Sox will be the end of him
The draft pick you lose to sign Lee later will be nowhere near the prospec Montero is because you pick at 28-32 in the draft. Montero got paid a record bonus because he would be a top 10 level pick in the draft.
The trade would be only what it is… 7 years of whatever Montero can be for 3 months of Cliff Lee. That is all Seattle has to trade, a 3 month contract. I wish CB still posted here on days like today.
YankeesWFAN Last week I said to a GM “Yanks don’t need Cliff Lee.” He said to me “Everybody needs a Cliff Lee!”.
“with a mere skeleton of a farm system”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
“Lee asked the M’s for an extension, and was turned down at the start of the season.”
Is there proof of this? I only ask because when he was with the Phillies he stated he planned to test the market regardless of where he ended up or what offers were on the table.
Philly doesn’t want javy because he is a FA? How bout burnett? Reunite burnett and halladay and have him for 3 more years ?
Cliff Lee helps the bullpen as he pretty much gives you 7-9 innnings every time out.
“What are you saying? That basically we’re going to be screwed anyway?”
no, I’m saying that in addition to the other reasons, they are trying to win now before Jeter, Rivera, Arod’s, etc….time is up.
SJ,
You say REGULARLY that the Yankees are the odds on favorite to sign Lee in the offseason. Actually, you say it as if its near certainty. You cite his relationships with players on the team and the overwhelming list of reasons why it makes sense.
And you really want to give up Jesus Montero for two months of Lee? Really?
Javy will be traded, most likely to Philly for Werth. That takes care of your corner OF position. Werth has played all 3 OF positions, as well as 1B.
Austin Romine is older than Jesus Montero, quite a bit older actually.
—————–
only 1 year older
If the Werth deal is out as I’m reading then I don’t see getting a bat for Vazquez, as it would have to be a this year-this year kind of deal and the Werth situation is somewhat unique.
If Vazquez goes it will most likely be for prospects.
“Do you agree with Sam that Javy becomes the top pitcher available on the trade block?”
———————
along with Roy Oswalt
Javy has built his trade value up 10-fold with his last 6 weeks of great pitching.
He was a Cy Young candidate last season and pitching like one the past 6 weeks.
That’s a valuable pitcher.
Irreverent,
You don’t have to listen to me when I say what Montero is worth. Go read the many scouting reports made on him.
Come on Guys ! . . its a NO -Brainer . .we get lee . .Montero rots in Seattle
even if the Yankees failed to sign Lee in the offseason, wouldn’t they still get compensation with draft picks for a type-A free agent from the team that does?
I think this deal is a clear indictment of something I’ve felt but haven’t been posting about.
Javy Vasquez has not regained his velocity and his stuff does not look sharp.
I know he’s winning now and pitching better but everything is 88-89 with him and I wonder if the Yankees don’t want to hold onto that and rely on it for the post season.
I just hope they don’t shuffle Hughes into the pen because of this deal. The kid needs to keep starting. He’s earned that right this season.
And I doubt we can get Werth for Javy straight up.
Someone explain to me why a Lee rental costs more than Halladay or Santana (assuming Montero, Adams and a decent pitching prospect a la Warren, Noesi, Stoneburner are included). Lee does have an injury history and is turning 32 (the edge of his prime).
Shame Spencer July 9th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
“with a mere skeleton of a farm system”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
“Lee asked the M’s for an extension, and was turned down at the start of the season.”
Is there proof of this? I only ask because when he was with the Phillies he stated he planned to test the market regardless of where he ended up or what offers were on the table.
____________________________________________________
Yes, there’s proof of this, Lee stated it on a radio interview this week.
NickSwisher Yesterday was one of the best days of my life. I owe it to all the fans. Thank you for this opportunity.
“no, I?m saying that in addition to the other reasons, they are trying to win now before Jeter, Rivera, Arod?s, etc?.time is up.”
To me that equates to that we’re screwed five years from now.
Stop with the 3 month rent crap. Cash is not an idiot and he knows this is his best chance to get lee in the offseason.
BloggingBombers More than anything, this assures that no other team will deal for Lee and overwhelm him with an extension.
those scouting reports tell me he is worth trading for cliff lee because he will never catch in the majors.
Go read the box scores of Cliff Lee.
“And I doubt we can get Werth for Javy straight up.”
——————-
why?
Werth is in a massive slump.
Javy is pitching like a Cy Young candidate.
Both are free agents after the season.
Phillies were in on Cliff Lee supposedly so they want to improve their rotation.
I have heard a few times that we could trade Javy for a corner OF. Currently we have Brett Gardner and Nick Swisher as our corner OF’s. Both of them are having FANTASTIC seasons and are just now in their primes.
Why do we need a corner OF?
If anything, we need some bullpen help. I could see dealing Javy for that but corner OF? No, we seem to be all set.
Big Al – hadn’t heard anything about that until the last thread. I’m pretty surprised..I don’t really know how to read that.
you guys are crucifying Jesus
this deal is a a no brainer
prospects…PROSPECTS for probably the best pitcher in baseball
at the end of the year they can either lock him up or come away with 2 first round picks.
Puts them in a better position now and can replace the prospects if they lose him
Nick Swisher is the man!!
So glad that our tireless voting got him in.
Boston Dave:
Keep in mind, it hurts Javy’s value quite a bit that the Red Sox, Rays and probably Mets are not among the teams driving up the trade value. It hurts a lot. If you are the Yankees, you are probably not going to send him to a team in the AL in the race either because it comes back to bite you potentially – so he’s going to the NL most likely. And the Phillies have proved they aren’t going to overspend for a pitcher.
ggbg – corner of/dh is certainly something we need. plus lee takes 30-40 innings away from the bullpen, which instantly helps.
JK July 9th, 2010 at 11:54 am
Montero is a vastly improving catcher. He is an all-star this year in AAA at the age of 20. His defensive skills are improving. He is basically a Mike Piazza with a much better arm. If he ends up staying with the Yanks he will be the starting Catcher by 2012 and will be a backup to Posada next year, probably along with Cervelli.
Romine will be up in 2012 too and most likely would split time as a starting Catcher. Romine has enough speed to play a corner OF position and even possibly 3B/1B.
We don’t need to go BOSTON here and diss the guy that goes in any trade of FA. Montero is the real deal! That is why Seatle wants him!
The rotation will be CC, Lee, Petitte, Burnett, and Hughes. Javy will be spinned off for a OF bat and/or Bullpen help.
For the postseason, it will be CC, Lee, Petitte, Burnett. Hughes will be at his innings cap, and his shift to the bullpen for the postseason will be timely and perfect for him.
Next season, the rotation is CC, Lee, Burnett, Hughes and Petitte(if he comes back) or a young buck like Nova, etc.
Great deal for the Yanks.
AND, the Yanks actually lower payroll this season by trading Javy and adding Lee. How CRAZY is that?
As Allen Iverson once said:
“Prospects? We talkin bout prospects? prospects? Man, we talkin bout Prospects!”
BD (Boston Dave) July 9th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Nick Swisher is the man!!
So glad that our tireless voting got him in.
************************
I know!
We worked hard for him!
jeff July 9th, 2010 at 11:59 am
All sounds good but this: Yanks biggest weakness now is the bullpen and the bench.
**************
This move upgrades the rotation from Vazquez to Lee.
Since it frees up Javy for a trade, it could upgrade the offense from Miranda/Thames/Johnson to Jason Werth for example.
When Lee joins CC, AJ and Andy, Hughes goes to the bullpen in the playoffs.
By getting Lee, the Yankees upgrade the regular season rotation, the post season rotation, the offense, the bullpen and retain a first round pick for acquiring Lee now.
those scouting reports tell me he is worth trading for cliff lee because he will never catch in the majors.
—
If Montero reaches his ceiling and the Yanks have him for 6 years, you still telling me you’d rather have just 2 months of Cliff Lee? That’s all the trade is buying us, 2 or 3 months of Cliff Lee. Because we all know the Yanks could go out and sign Lee in the offseason with no problems. Ok my bad, it also gives us a 1st round pick. Oh yay we can go get another Cito Culver big whoop
This deal completely ruins my plan of dressing like Jesus for all the home games and handing out bread, fish and wine to the crowd all game.
jesus is blocked anyways…no way he is a catcher for 6 years and tex is at 1b. Need DH spot for jorge/jeter/arod as these guys are getting older.
Montero had no spot on this team and why not trade him for the best pitcher in baseball
Sorry Cleveland, I’m just not that into you.
I’m not really fond of the idea of moving Montero in this deal. I’d rather it was Romine. Adams is a fine hitter and fielder, but, generally a singles/doubles line drive hitter. He has no chance of supplanting Cano. I would figure that a pitcher along the lines of Mcallister, Nova or Noesi would be the 3rd name. If it’s another middle infielder, it’s Luis Nunez, not Eduardo Nunez. NYYs do have a letter 2nd base choice than Adams in Corbin Joseph, who’s only a year behind Adams an younger. I just like Montero’s bat, but, Gary Sanchez appears to be Montero’s clone with the bat and is doing what Montero did at the same age….17 years old.
I just hope Montero does not turn into a 40HR .330BA guy. I think Montero’s early struggles have made Yankee fans forget about the amazing numbers he was putting up in the minors and over his last 23 games he has been on fire. I think this move is more about keeping Lee from other teams than it is about the Yankees. I pray this doesn’t happen. Yankees have enough pitching. STOP PAYING TWICE FOR PLAYERS.
jeff – the red sox, rays, and mets were essentially out of the Lee running anyway. mets won’t give up davis, tampa won’t give up.. ironically… davis as well… and the redsox have nothing worth trading away.
Why do we need Werth? Gardy is doing a great job in LF.
If the Yankees wanted a starting pitcher so badly they should have dealt Romine to Houston for Oswalt.
Oswalt, not Lee, is the best pitcher available on the market. He is a historically great, HOF level pitcher who has flown under the radar because of his time in Houston and the fact that he never says more than ten words total in an interview.
“I know he’s winning now and pitching better but everything is 88-89 with him and I wonder if the Yankees don’t want to hold onto that and rely on it for the post season.”
great point
“don’t justify this by what you “think” montero will turn out to be, you are not a pro scout and i do not care what you think.”
There’s a great scene in Annie Hall where Woody Allen and Diane Keaton are waiting in line for a movie and the couple behind them are spouting nonsense about Marshall McLuhan’s writing, and Woody turns to them, tells them they know nothing about Marshall McLuhan’s work, and pulls Marshall McLuhan out from behind a poster to tell them so.
I don’t have a pro scout to pull out from behind a poster, unfortunately, but if I did he would tell you Montero is a great prospect and you don’t know what you are talking about.
good points regard the “philosophy” of keeping prospects:
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....0tkDEZbrSN
excerpt:
Werth would add a power bat. Swish can dh, grandy or gardner can sit vs lefties and if nj ever returns, he is bench depth.
Ok, again, if Montero ends up being a superstar.. can’t we just get him back once Seattle can’t afford him??
It’s official: —> Yankees sign Lebron James.
charlie – stop talking about 2 months of cliff lee. if the yankees thought there was any chance of 2 months of cliff lee, they would not be making this deal. this is the most certain way to ensure that he resigns with us, and doesn’t get woo’d into an extension or realize that he likes some other city.
or you can keep thinking you know better than the yankees upper management, in which case i say go get a job or shut up.
dan July 9th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
jesus is blocked anyways…no way he is a catcher for 6 years and tex is at 1b. Need DH spot for jorge/jeter/arod as these guys are getting older.
Montero had no spot on this team and why not trade him for the best pitcher in baseball
_)__________
wouldn’t it be nice to have Lee and Montero. Well wait 6 months and that can happen.
Who’s better than Swish?
Class act.
Good for him. Better for the fans that he’s on this team.
If we do get Werth tho, Posada has got to go back to being the everyday Catcher.
You either hold onto Javy, let him fill the Aceves role and then let him walk at the end of the yr so you get two 1st round picks or you trade him to an NL team and replenish the farm system now.
You continue to allow Hughes to start until he gets close to his innings limit and then he becomes a power arm in the pen for the playoffs. So this move helps the rotation and improves the pen.
jeff,
Javy wants to stay on the east coast as well.
Why wouldn’t the Mets want to be in on the deal – or are you saying the Yanks just won’t trade with them?
Can the Yanks get Arodys back for Javy from the Braves?
Or perhaps the Reds?
(I know I know, I’m everything thats wrong with the Yankees organization/fan base/America)
Mark- Can’t touch this. July 9th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
I just hope Montero does not turn into a 40HR .330BA guy. I think Montero’s early struggles have made Yankee fans forget about the amazing numbers he was putting up in the minors and over his last 23 games he has been on fire. I think this move is more about keeping Lee from other teams than it is about the Yankees. I pray this doesn’t happen. Yankees have enough pitching. STOP PAYING TWICE FOR PLAYERS.
==========================================================
This is the best post this blog has seen in months.
can’t believe so many are content with this trade. i’ve been bummed out all morning. overpaying for a rental. enough said!
If this happens I think it can officially be said that we’re back to the early irrational Steinbrenner days with a mere skeleton of a farm system.
——————————————————————————————————————————————–
A. At worst the catching depth gets moved back a year. Are you talking about David Adams because I don’t think I’ve heard his name mentioned before this morning?
B. If you’re talking about the 80′s when recalling “the early irrational Steinbrenner days” you’re way off base because the farm is still in great shape even if they make this deal and the Yanks are current WS champs and are very much on the path to winning another. There were some good teams in the 80′s too but they never had the rotational depth to get to the end.
Putting Lee in the rotation now puts the Yanks in the best in the best position to repeat as champions……since the Yanks!
ID – I think you are mostly crazy if you think we need a corner OF. Which of the corner OF’s would you say are not performing and need to be replaced? Gardner or Swisher?
Oswalt would get SLAUGHTERED in the AL East. Cliff Lee is head and shoulders better than him.
Wave Your Hat July 9th, 2010 at 11:59 am
Thanks Wave! I respect you! BTW, I will cry if Lee got hurt & Montero becomes the stud MLB catcher. But I still make the deal today & I have been telling everyone how special Montero is since I saw him in ST 2009.
WYH – i’d appreciate you not telling me i don’t know what i’m talking about and misreading my posts at the same time.
at no point have i said that montero is “not a good prospect”. he’s just not as good a prospect for us (no path to the majors) than he is for other teams.
I’m hearing right hander Hector Noesi could be the 3rd prospect in the deal
Why give up a top 10 baseball prospect for Lee, when 6 months from now he will be a yankee? Paying for Lee twice makes no sense. Yankees problem is not pitching,
mark – wait 6 months and that “could” happen. or it “can” happen right now.
why not get him now and have a better shot at a championship this year!!!! everyone is talking about 2 months versus 6 years. Its all aboout winning a championship. If they get Lee for two months and win a championship who cares about monteros 6 years!!! Everyone is taking championships for granted….
BloggingBombers Hughes won’t be moved to the pen until October, when the Yankees need only four starters. That would make even less sense than a Lee trade.
GB7,
Trading Montero is indeed a tough pill to swallow.
I have mixed emotions…. but all along I’ve known the impact Cliff Lee should have for the team he goes to.
If the Yanks do win a ring this year and sign him to an extension, it will have been a great deal.
Gardner in LF, Grandy in CF, and Werth/Swish at DH/RF
No brainer.
This reminds me of the Hughes for Santana thing all over again.
“WE HAVE TO DO IT!!!”
“BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL!!!”
“PROSPECTS NEVER WORK OUT OMGZZZ”
It’s the same old recycled argument. Cashman won’t pay twice for a player, there is already a precedent.
Seen this movie before, and it always ends the same way.
BloggingBombers Clearly Vazquez would be the odd man out and likely traded. He’s the only one that even could be traded, for that matter.
NYYs do have a ***better*** 2nd base choice
ggbg – werth would be much better than swisher in RF, swisher can DH… since we don’t have one.
Ken_Rosenthal says:
“Source: Vazquez for Werth a “50-to-1″ shot. Werth to #Rays also a longshot.”
http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenth.....8125483426
Patrick,
No guarantee Montero stays at C. If he doesn’t catch, he has less value as a prospect.
Lee is a stud.
The picks they keep will yield top players that will drop down because of signability issues.
Romine’s development gives them the ability to do this deal.
The fact that Gary Sanchez could also be a fast mover is also a consideration.
Hurts to trade Montero. Hurts much less when you get Cliff Lee in return.
Calling my flight to OC.
Have a great weekend everybody!
I’ve had a great time posting here with you guys this year and want to thank you for making it a lot of fun for me.
That said I’ll be expending my energies elsewhere for the rest of the summer.
Happy rooting for Cliff Lee, I hope he brings you all the fraudulent championship you covet!
And don’t forget to keep an eye on that Montero guy. He just might make you all miserable one day.
“everyone is talking about 2 months versus 6 years. Its all aboout winning a championship. If they get Lee for two months and win a championship who cares about monteros 6 years!!!”
Here, here!!
This is a tough call for me. I love bringing prospects along and letting them become lifetime Yankees, but great starting pitching is always the most important thing any team can by had.
It’s ridiculous to compare this to the foolish days of 1982-94 when the Yanks would trade their best prospects for guys like Rick Rhoden, Ken Phelps, Bob Shirley and Jesse Barfield just to name a few. This is a deal for one of the best pitchers in the game for half a season plus first crack at signing him or getting excellent draft pick compensation if they do not.
If this trade means Hughes to the bullpen for the rest of the year it solves two other problems. Hughes’ innings limit and a shaky bullpen. If this trade means Vazquez for Werth or another power hitting OF it makes the team better in those areas as well.
Unless Montero becomes a star it’s a great deal.
“I hope he brings you all the fraudulent championship you covet!”
Fraudulent as opposed to..?
mlbtraderumors did have a story awhile back that the rays were looking at lee. whether it was hype or not… who knows. if they aren’t looking at him, then why are the yankees afraid of someone getting him? another reason they don’t need him to “block him from another team”. yanks managed to get by him in the world series last year. lee going to the sox or rays is a scary thought – going to the twins or rangers, not quite as scary. Price game 2 down 0-1 is a lot scarier than Liriano game 2 down 0-1.
bret: i do like the idea of getting miranda up here and letting him essentially take nick johnson’s role once everyone is healthy. he’s too good for AAA right now but has no trade value. let’s trade him for billy wagner once the braves fall apart since he’s definitely better than carter
Getting Lee would be great, but I don’t like the idea of losing Javy.
We are finally getting the good performances expected of him. With adding Lee, you now have 4 starters that can go deep into games. Hughes is a top notch starter, but having a bullpen of Marte, Robertson, Phil, Joba, & Mo in the playoffs with CC, Lee, Andy, Javy & AJ starting is awesome.
Now that Thames is back I can live with a Miranda/Thames platoon at DH.
Pitching is more important.
A rental for rental swap with the Phillies makes a lot of sense for both sides to me. They apparently need Werth out of that clubhouse and have Brown waiting in the wings and Javy would strengthen their staff. Helps both teams this year and with draft picks. Don’t know if they’d trade with each other though.
vblade – yeah but cashman wasn’t directing the last movie you watched
the post above somewhere made the perfect point. the santana deal would have involved tearing up the ML roster, this one doesnt.
charlie – stop talking about 2 months of cliff lee. if the yankees thought there was any chance of 2 months of cliff lee, they would not be making this deal. this is the most certain way to ensure that he resigns with us, and doesn’t get woo’d into an extension or realize that he likes some other city.
or you can keep thinking you know better than the yankees upper management, in which case i say go get a job or shut up.
—-
Why the hostility bro? I do have a job, this damned trade is distracting me from it
I’m saying 2-3 months of Cliff Lee because that’s all this trade buys us (ok, and a draft pick). We both know the Yanks could easily sign Lee in the offseason if that’s what they wanted to do. Lee isn’t discussing extension with us on this deal, why would he do so with any other team that traded for him? It is basically a certainty that he’s going to be a free agent after the season.
The Yanks already have a great rotation and are already the favorite to win it all. This is a completely unnecessary trade.
i agree Shame Spencer
Let’s stop with this “We’re getting an extension” stuff. The only asset Seattle has is Cliff Lee’s remaining contract. That’s what you’re trading for. The fact that you may sign him to a new contract as a FA is nice, but not terribly relevant to the trade because you can sign him in December.
When does cashman pay twice for guys? Lee isn’t the best pitcher in baseball. He’s not the best pitcher on his own team, and wouldn’t be the best pitcher on the Yankees either.
I D-
When you told G-L he wasn’t a pro scout, that implied pro scouts diodn’t think Montero was a top prospect. So I neither misread nor misrepresented your post.
Pretty amazing. Anyone who doesn’t like it is a Sox (or Rays) troll in disguise, pouting sour grapes.
Montero was headed for full time DH. Adams is blocked by Cano. I’m curious as to the other prospects.
In return? A rotation of CC/Lee/Pettitte/AJ/Hughes, with Vasquez to Phillies for Werth straight up. Pettitte comes back in 2011 (why not), Lee signs an extension, and Yankees dominate for the next 3-5 years.
And? The payroll goes down! Incredible.
Yankees can win now, they won last year with with less pitching. I pray cashman wakes up and realizes that he giving Seattle what of the best pure hitters the minors has ever seen for a pitcher the Yankees WILL get 6 months from now.
We are getting ourselves all worked up when SEA could say no to the deal.
Pitching wins Championships !
Enjoy the pastrami SJ44.
“I’m hearing right hander Hector Noesi could be the 3rd prospect in the deal”
Scratch that. Just read the Yanks refused to include either Noesi,Ivan Nova or David Phelps in the deal. Quite possible it is just Montero and David Adams in the deal
I can’t believe I’m typing this, but I’d actually be kind of sad to see Javy go.
When he’s on, he’s fun to watch (and he’s been ON lately).
WYH – right… and those scouts have him as a top 3 prospect as a catcher, a position he will never play for the yankees… i think i don’t wish to further anything i discussed with g-c, because his stupidity made me make some bad points :/
I?ve had a great time posting here with you guys this year and want to thank you for making it a lot of fun for me.
That said I?ll be expending my energies elsewhere for the rest of the summer.
Happy rooting for Cliff Lee, I hope he brings you all the fraudulent championship you covet!
And don?t forget to keep an eye on that Montero guy. He just might make you all miserable one day.
—–
I wonder if I’ll enjoy my championship more or less than the championship whenever you are rooting for isn’t going to win?
Unless you wanna go root for the Heat or something.
i hope montero is a bust
Shouldnt matter though because we just traded PROSPECTS for the best pitcher in baseball.
I will bet anything Montero is never in consideration for the best anything during his career.
PS the yankees have a ton of catcher prospects quit crying wahhhhh wahhhhhhhhhh
1 word.
Dynasty.
“with Vasquez to Phillies for Werth straight up”
Most likely not going to happen.
# JohnC July 9th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
I’m hearing right hander Hector Noesi could be the 3rd prospect in the deal
According to Sherman:
BloggingBombers This feels like a total preventative move to me. Cashman wants to make sure Lee doesn’t end up on the Red Sox or Rays. Period.
rob – you are flat out wrong there, he is most certainly the best pitcher in the majors right now.
Oswalt, not Lee, is the best pitcher available on the market. He is a historically great, HOF level pitcher who has flown under the radar because of his time in Houston and the fact that he never says more than ten words total in an interview.
_____________________________________________________
My guess, you don’t read the stats. Lee is a far superior pitcher than Oswalt.
Another point to make… why are the Yankees paying more for Lee than the Mariners or Phillies did? And only getting him for a fraction of the time?
This deal is beyond stupid. Worst deal Cashman has ever made
Paying twice would simply be bad business. Starting pitching isn’t even a glaring need for this team.
“Just read the Yanks refused to include either Noesi, Ivan Nova or David Phelps in the deal.”
Wow, thanks Cash!!!!! You rock!!!!
Why are all of you so hardheaded that you can’t understand Lee wouldn’t have signed an extension anywhere else if he’s not signing one here?
WHY? WHY?
Cliff Lee would have been a free agent and he would have been a Yankee if they had wanted him to be.
GeorgeInJax July 9th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
Getting Lee would be great, but I don?t like the idea of losing Javy.
**************************
I don’t either.
It does hurt, but damn oh well. We have no control over it.
Atleast were dealing from a position of strength.
J.R Murphy
Gary Sanchez
Austin Romine
Kyle H.
All four capable of being Major League starting catchers in the future.
Santa Claus just landed in Yankee Stadium
KenDavidoff To me, if you trade for Lee, go for the full overkill & don’t trade Vazquez. Use a 6-man rotation for a while, then shift Hughes to ‘pen.
i agree with LGY
Paying twice for a player is stupid unless you have a great need for that player. The Yankees don’t need Lee. This to me seems all about keeping Lee from other teams, if you base your trades on other teams that is a great way to make bad trades. I still can’t believe cashman would do this, unless they believe the Godly numbers Montero have put up in the minors and the scouts that are drooling over him are wrong.
“Don’t know if they’d trade with each other though.”
Not very likely IMO.
Competitors don’t like to help competitors.
If the Yanks want to move Javy they will have plenty of suitors.
As far as Lee for Montero.
Same old maxim of trading. You gotta give to get.
The Yankees must have evaluated this trade sixteen ways to Sunday.
Can’t believe they didn’t think this over very, very carefully.
I’m content either way.
Let’s see what the day brings.
BloggingBombers Folks, when I say it doesn’t make sense, it has nothing to do with the idea of adding Lee to the rotation. Clearly he makes them better…
BloggingBombers …but they didn’t NEED him. They were already the best team in MLB. Some will shout about Javy, but his 3.05 ERA since 5/12 is best on team
considering this year and recent history (past couple of years), Lee is the best pitcher in baseball. The only other pitcher in the conversation is Halladay.
charlie – and you can never be certain that lee won’t change his mind about talking extension” by moving into a winning atmosphere. this move definitely puts that ball in our court. at the least it gives us time to find out if he can even pitch in NY, something that is not good to find out after you dump out $180mil.
Cliff Lee’s already made it clear that he was going to test FA. Why not keep the prospects and overwhelm him with the money then?
It makes little sense to pay now and also pay later. It’s not all about the prospects, it’s the philosophy.
Cliff Lee will be a Yankee next year if or if we don’t trade for him, wish makes trading for him now stupid.
BloggingBombers Hughes has 94 IP so far. Has roughly 80 left before his innings limit is an issue. Sending him to the pen now would be very shortsighted.
Twitter Ken Davidoff, Mariners have told interested teams they are out of the Lee sweepstakes, all signs point to #Yankees completing this deal.
So teams are calling Zduriencik and being turned away?
“When he’s on, he’s fun to watch (and he’s been ON lately).”
Sell high.
“My guess, you don?t read the stats. Lee is a far superior pitcher than Oswalt.”
Hah, thats a funny joke. Oswalt has a career 135 ERA +. Among starters only Johan Santana is better.
Its amazing to me how disrespected and overlooked Oswalt is. To the point where people actually want to try to argue that Cliff Lee is better than him. CC Sabathia isn’t better than him, people.
BDave, I like the idea of getting Lee, just not at the cost of Montero, but, as the saying goes, good trades hurt both teams. Still would rather keep him. I like Adams and the 3 pitchers that I mentioned, but, NYYs will lose one of them if they don’t. NYYs future are the great arms and that deep catching gold mine. I can’t imagine NYYs being able to sub Ramiro Pena over Luis Nunez, though. He’s pretty much what Jack and Josh wilson are…not much bat but a lot of glove. That’s why I think that it’s Luis Nunez. Good glove, speed and he’s developing some power. If they include Brandon League, I think it’s Nunez over Pena.
I think there are good arguments on both sides of this debate, but can we at least get the facts straight? Those asking why we can’t just sign him in December should know that if we do we will lose our 1st round pick, and from what I’ve heard this year’s draft will be a very good one. So the deal is NOT Montero, Adams etc. for Lee (unless he’s a rental, but I can’t imagine the Yanks letting him walk after making a deal like this). It is our package for Lee plus a 1st round pick.
Is Montero et. al. worth Lee for the rest of this year plus a 1st round pick. Debatable. But please get the facts right before throwing your opinions around.
Folks, this deal if it happens means NO DOUBT Javy is spinned off for OF/DH help. There is no doubt.
What that OF/DH help is, we shall see. But that shifts Thames/Mirana/N Johnson to the bench.
They are going to go with a 6 man rotation. Hughes is your #5, and in the playoffs when you only need 4 starters Hughes becomes your lockdown 8th inning guy.
This move makes a LOT of sense.
MTU,
I have very mixed emotions about all of this.
I mentioned earlier that the existing Yankees rotation was probably tops in the majorss in ERA and in innings per start (but I said I would check).
Well, using baseball-reference.com, and only looking at the first 5 starters for every team in the American League… (it just gets quite a bit more time-consuming to pull out the data for “sometimes starters”), I was close to being correct:
1. Tampa Bay’s top 5 starters actually have the best ERA- 3.73 vs 3.79 for the Yankees
2. Actually, LA-Anaheim’s top 5 starters actually have the most innings- 543.1 vs 527.1 for the Yankees, though that is for 4 more starts than the Yankess top 5. If you look at innings per start, the Yankees have a slight edge- 6.35 vs 6.34 for Tampa.
Starts ERA Innings Inn/Start
NYY 83 3.79 527.1 6.35
TPA 85 3.73 538.2 6.34
LAA 87 4.19 543.1 6.25
Haha
Well maybe we can start putting Lee’s WAR at 1 if we win tonight because we probably would have lost if we had to face him if last time was any indication :p
The Yanks don’t discuss extensions in season anyways. If he can pitch in NY? He pitched in Philly, he pitched in the WS, he owns NY. Why wouldn’t he be able to pitch in NY? And his contract will be nowhere near $180 mil
This deal still only nets you 3 months of Lee and a 1st round pick. 6 years of Montero and Adams is still worth far far more.
guys . .its a prospect ! . . they come and go . . Getting an Ace doesnt’ happen everyday
*Arent going with a 6 man rotation, sorry.
Hey Kelvin says July 9th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
It does hurt, but damn oh well. We have no control over it.
Atleast were dealing from a position of strength.
J.R Murphy
Gary Sanchez
Austin Romine
Kyle H.
All four capable of being Major League starting catchers in the future.
_________
Yankees could have
J.R Murphy
Gary Sanchez
Austin Romine
Kyle H.
AND JESUS
AND LEE
six months from now.
g-c – i thought you were leaving?
you don’t buy oswalts career, you buy what he does now. until very recently (last 2 months?) he has been sub-par and fading fast.
i agree oswalt is a GREAT pitcher. But hes not as dominate as he once was…. not sure what it is, but look up his ERA+ numbers in the past 2 or 3 years and compare it to Lee. Gaurentee Lees is better
# ML July 9th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
I think there are good arguments on both sides of this debate, but can we at least get the facts straight? Those asking why we can’t just sign him in December should know that if we do we will lose our 1st round pick, and from what I’ve heard this year’s draft will be a very good one. So the deal is NOT Montero, Adams etc. for Lee (unless he’s a rental, but I can’t imagine the Yanks letting him walk after making a deal like this). It is our package for Lee plus a 1st round pick.
Is Montero et. al. worth Lee for the rest of this year plus a 1st round pick. Debatable. But please get the facts right before throwing your opinions around.
——————-
Your 1st round pick is not guaranteed to become anything like Jesus Montero. Not even close.
The only question is, do you want to throw 3 lefties in a row in the playoffs (CC, Lee, Petitte)? I would say yes, only to keep the streaky Burnett only pitching once (G4).
Your 1st round pick is not guaranteed to become anything like Jesus Montero. Not even close.
—
don’t worry we can overdraft another toolsy highschooler that would have fallen to the 4th round anyways. that plus a few months of lee is totally worth montero+ right?
vblade
Do you think anyone will outbid Cashman for Lee services, someone he was going after anyway?
I mentioned earlier that the existing Yankees rotation was probably tops in the majorss in ERA and in innings per start (but I said I would check).
Well, using baseball-reference.com, and only looking at the first 5 starters for every team in the American League? (it just gets quite a bit more time-consuming to pull out the data for ?sometimes starters?), I was close to being correct:
1. Tampa Bay?s top 5 starters actually have the best ERA- 3.73 vs 3.79 for the Yankees
2. Actually, LA-Anaheim?s top 5 starters actually have the most innings- 543.1 vs 527.1 for the Yankees, though that is for 4 more starts than the Yankess top 5. If you look at innings per start, the Yankees have a slight edge- 6.35 vs 6.34 for Tampa.
Starts ERA Innings Inn/Start
NYY 83 3.79 527.1 6.35
TPA 85 3.73 538.2 6.34
LAA 87 4.19 543.1 6.25
——–
Just fyi…for reference, I believe the Padres have the best ERA in the league for starters. I know you were focusing on AL…just saying.
has anyone ever pitched in an All-Star game wearing a uniform of a team they have never played for?
Rosenthal is saying a Vazquez for Werth trade is unlikely, so don’t use that trade to help justify a Lee deal.
And if there’s no Vazquez for Werth deal, Vazquez isn’t going to fetch help this year in the OF, as any team trading for Javy is playing for this year. Werth was a unique situation.
ML July 9th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
I think there are good arguments on both sides of this debate, but can we at least get the facts straight? Those asking why we can’t just sign him in December should know that if we do we will lose our 1st round pick, and from what I’ve heard this year’s draft will be a very good one. So the deal is NOT Montero, Adams etc. for Lee (unless he’s a rental, but I can’t imagine the Yanks letting him walk after making a deal like this). It is our package for Lee plus a 1st round pick.
Is Montero et. al. worth Lee for the rest of this year plus a 1st round pick. Debatable. But please get the facts right before throwing your opinions around.\
_______
I doubt Yankees first round pick is going to yield a Montero type prospect. Id Rather Have Lee and Montero vs. Lee and a first round pick.
vblade – and there is no guarantee that montero turns into anything either. don’t harp one and ignore the other.
what lee will do, however… is way more certain.
ID – Lee is very good. He is a top 10 pitcher. I’m not trying to undersell how good he is. But he isn’t the bed pitcher in baseball. Ubaldo, the Doc, Josh Johnson, Lincecum, CC are all guy I take first. Lee is definitely beat available but lets not overblow what he is.
I just can’t imagine Cash would change course and pay twice like this while offering his best chip. THEN after the season ends giving him a fat 20m per check for his age 33+ seasons. If this was a trade like the Phils made for him where you get a couple of years control I’d understand it a little more.
It seems the reported snag is on the 3rd prospect who is not yet named. Montero and Adams are definitely in the proposal.
Take a breath and repeat after me……….
You
Can
Never
Have
Enough
Pitching.
The only reason I see for the Yankees getting Lee now is that Cash was seriously concerned with the rotation as it stands now. AJ’s inconsistency, Javy’s early struggles, and Hughes’ innings limits. In the playoffs – we are playing in a short series where one or two wins make all the difference in the world and being up 2-0 is a thousand times better than 1-1 which is also a thousand times better than 0-2. Plus, this also give the Yankees 2 things – a exclusive 2 week negotiating window with Lee and no loss of draft picks when he resigns.
“another reason they don’t need him to “block him from another team”. yanks managed to get by him in the world series last year.”
After Lee, the Phils had Pedro as their #2 whose pitches resembled beachballs to the Yankees lefthanded hitters.
Which is why it made no sense for the Phils to trade away Lee. They had a really delicious apple, then traded for an awesome pear, then traded their apple away. Now they’re in 3rd place.
vblade….think about what your saying
theres no gaurentee a 1st round pick (by the way it would be 2) would be anything like Montero…. How bout theres no gaurentee montero will ever be as good as posada let alone Mauer. You guys are acting like this dude is the second coming of god and he hasnt done anything above double A….
# damon (think 28) July 9th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
vblade
Do you think anyone will outbid Cashman for Lee services, someone he was going after anyway?
——————-
It’s the Yankees. The answer is a clear no.
vblade
Your 1st round pick is not guaranteed to become anything like Jesus Montero. Not even close.
______________________________________________________________________
That’s true, but it’s also true that our 1st round pick could end up being BETTER than Montero. There’s no way to know.
And when you consider that Montero is blocked at 1B and probably can’t play any other position, that means he’s a DH and we just don’t have room on this team for a full-time DH. Especially a young one who will probably struggle at times.
Why not get Lee in 6 months? Because getting him now almost guarantees a repeat! Yes, we may have won anyway, but this deal makes it much more likely.
Sam, I agree with your post except for one small detail – you say the Rays & Sox are not going away. The Rays maybe not but the Sox are definitely going away….
i love how people can discount what the yankees will get for their draft picks… when we drafted montero… christ.
Rosenthal’s blog says the Phillies have been scouting Vazquez, so bats might be coming.
Damn Montero will hurt, haha.
Me and My dad been following this kid since forever.
We are excited for Cliffy though
# dan July 9th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
vblade….think about what your saying
theres no gaurentee a 1st round pick (by the way it would be 2) would be anything like Montero…. How bout theres no gaurentee montero will ever be as good as posada let alone Mauer. You guys are acting like this dude is the second coming of god and he hasnt done anything above double A….
———————–
Hughes hadn’t done much in the ML, and everyone wanted to trade him for Johan Santana.
People just like you would have clamored for Santana.
How’d that work out?
i love how people can discount what the yankees will get for their draft picks… when we drafted montero… christ.
—
Haha right.
“you don?t buy oswalts career, you buy what he does now. until very recently (last 2 months?) he has been sub-par and fading fast.”
He has been subpar? Because he had a 4.12 ERA last year in the worst year of his career by a longshot?
This is from the guy advocating dealing for the pitcher who became good two years ago.
If you hold onto Vazquez you get the first round pick back anyway.
i love how people can discount what the yankees will get for their draft picks? when we drafted montero? christ.
——-
I don’t know if we drafted Montero…I think he may have been an international signing.
FYI: Rosenthal also said the Yankees would never trade for Lee.
Never say never.
Clearly, there are still moving parts in all this.
Cliff Lee refused to pitch on 3 days rest in the world series. I can’t forget that.
anyone who does not like this deal should not be a baseball fan. the nba is maybe more your cup of tea
“you don?t buy oswalts career, you buy what he does now. until very recently (last 2 months?) he has been sub-par and fading fast.”
He has been subpar? Because he had a 4.12 ERA last year in the worst year of his career by a longshot?
This is from the guy advocating dealing for the pitcher who became good two years ago.
I agree. The rotation is good and has been very good so far, but it isn’t a forgone conclusion and you don’t risk a Burnett and Vasquez slip in a shot series.
Lee is a game changer, you improve your club and keep him away from the competition. Trading Montero will hurt but you ain’t getting Lee for free.
“J.R Murphy
Gary Sanchez
Austin Romine
Kyle H.
All four capable of being Major League starting catchers in the future.”
True, but to this point, 2 of them can’t hit and 2 of them can’t catch. Having Romine is what makes this deal go. Chances of the other three being starting MLB catchers aren’t much more than fair.
Here’s a question – what is World Series Title #28 in 2010 worth to you?
SJ, what are your thoughts on paying twice for Lee?
Blake-
That’s understandable.
We all love the potential that is Jesus.
Have to trust the Yankees self-scouting and some of the things that are not so obvious to us as outsiders.
There must be more to this than meets the eye.
The Yanks are insistant on getting Lee as the hier apparent to Andy.
Perhaps, they felt Lee could wind up somewhere else and did not want to take the chance ?
Perhaps there internal people have decided that Jesus will not remain a Catcher ? If so, his value to US is much less.
We both know the Yankees are a win now team. Cash has said he will
trade any prospect in the right deal.
We have tons of catching depth. It is our strength.
So he pulls the trigger.
Many more options now exist and other problems get solved in the process.
If it happens it makes sense. If it doesn’t that’s Ok too.
Let the trading chips fall where they may.
Even if Jesus turns out to be a stud hitter we get one of the best pitchers in baseball for th next 4-5 years.
Lee will age well and would look very good in pinstripes.
Sorry for the long post.
anyone who does not like this deal should not be a baseball fan. the nba is maybe more your cup of tea
—
Anyone who likes this deal is moronic.
Count me in the ‘get Cliff Lee’ camp. Adding him to the rotation without losing a major leaguer virtually guarantees #28 and probably means #29 next year as well.
The biggest issue the Yankees have moving forward is the possibility of losing Mo, he is the key to winning championships because any other closer probably blows an additional 5 games a season. So winning while Mo is still pitching so well is imperative. Montero could be a great hitter, he will not be a great catcher and the depth in the system makes him expendable for Cliff Lee, who is a younger version of Andy Pettitte with a proven track record in the post-season.
g-c – and he’s 34, and he did all of that in the NL central. stop me when i look impressed.
The Yankees will sign Lee to an extension. This is not just a rental, folks. Cash is not stupid, even though some like to think he is. They are not negotiating with Jete and Mo on extensions during the season, so they certainly are not going to change their long-standing policy to negotiate with Lee.
But if they want him in the offseason, they will get him. Of this I have no doubt.
And I agree this move may be happening in large part because Cash thought there was a real possibility that Lee would sign elsewhere and agree to an offseason extension. The Yankees have coveted him for awhile. Plus Andy may leave after this year, or at most he maybe pitches one or two more years…..Lee is a stud, people. I don’t like losing Montero one bit and I do believe he has the tools to become a hitting superstar.
But if you have the chance to sign one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball for prospects, no matter who those prospects are, you really have to do it, IMO.
Rosenthal says a reason the Yankees aren’t trying to sign Lee to a contract extension is to avoid disrespecting Jeter and Mariano who have been told to wait til seasons end! It does make sense.
MTU,
I agree.
JESUS MONTERO WAS NEVER GOING TO HAVE A FULL TIME JOB ON THE YANKEES. HE IS A FULL TIME DH IN THE MAKING ON A TEAM FULL OF DUDES GETTING OLDER. IF YOU THINK HE WAS EVER GOING TO PLAY EVERY SINGLE DAY PLEASE TELL ME WHERE…..IT WASNT GOING TO BE AT CATCHER (WHO CARES ABOUT DEFENSE BUT A 21 YEAR OLD WORKING DAILY WITH A VETERAN STAFF… YEA RIGHT), 1B NO WAY – TEX, DH – TRY AGAIN THATS FOR JETER, AROD, POSADA AS THEY GET OLDER.
THIS IS WHAT JESUS HAS BEEN BREEDED FOR. CAN ANYONE NAME A BETTER PLAYER YOU WOULD WANT RIGHT NOW??? DONT THINK SO. JESUS DID HIS JOB AND GOT TRADED FOR THE BEST PLAYER POSSIBLE
GB7,
I was defending a trade of Romine for Lee yesterday and I don’t think anybody agreed with me.
Montero? definitely tougher to defend.
Considering I was the minority on Romine for Lee, I’m not surprised there are many who are worried about losing Montero.
This will be bittersweet if it goes down. But like I said, if the Yanks win the WS this year AND sign Lee to an extension, Montero can be the next Piazza and I’ll be happy for both sides.
SJ, SJ, SJ
Can you please answer the question I had asked previously. Because its the only thing that might save me from jumping off a cliff right now.
You have made it sound in past weeks that Lee signing with the Yankees this winter is all but a foregone conclusion. You cite his relationships with others on the team and a laundry list of other reasons why it fits into the structure of the team currently being built.
So you of all people actually think its a good idea to trade the best offensive prospect in the minors for a two month rental?
ID tj Yankees did not draft Jesus. They signe him for the most money as an IFA. Like Gary Sanchez. The Yankees don’t draft high enough to get talent that good in the draft.
If they aren’t gonna extend him anyway, why not sign him when he turns FA?
Is it really worth losing Montero for half a season of Cliff Lee?
GB7,
interesting take on the 3rd piece. I figure you might not be too far off on the actual negotiations.
dan July 9th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
vblade….think about what your saying
theres no gaurentee a 1st round pick (by the way it would be 2) would be anything like Montero…. How bout theres no gaurentee montero will ever be as good as posada let alone Mauer. You guys are acting like this dude is the second coming of god and he hasnt done anything above double A….
_________
Dan my problem is not on what Montero will or will not become, Montero is a great Yankee prospect who every scout ive read believes he has a great bat and will hit in the majors and the sky is the limit. That by itself means almost nothing to be because he is a prospect. But the fact that 6 months from now Lee will be a Yankee with or without a trade is what makes this trade stupid. Paying for players twice is stupid. If Lee was lock to a 3-4 year deal already at reasonable money I’d understand.
I have to believe Werth is a possibility. Both Ed Price and Buster Olney report that the Phillies scouts were at Javy Vazquez last start. Multiple sources.
Montero wasn’t drafted – He was signed out of Venezuela for $1.6 million.
Blake-
Then we just sit back and watch it unfold. I have to think the odds favor it happening.
We’ll know soon.
If this happens we should have one of the best rotations ever assembled. Absolutely fantastic.
I will miss Jesus. No question.
vblade – the santana deal what in no way shape or form similar to this situation other than it was prospects for a starter. we would have had to move our future staff ace (at that time thats what phil was to us) and our starting centerfielder (melky) to get santana. this lee trade has us moving a prospect in montero that we have literally no where to play for the next 5 years, and not touching the ML roster.
and charlie… the only morons are the ones carrying on and about this deal, thinking they know better than the yankees, like it will change cashman’s mind or something.
Vasquez holds all the cards . .he has a no trade clause
A lot of you make me laugh. This isn’t Basketball or Football – prospecting in baseball is an imperfect science.
Could Montero turn out to be an all-star? Sure. But for every “can’t miss” prospect, there’s a dozen failed projects. It’s a total crapshoot as far as I see it. 5 years from now we can easily be talking about All-star Catcher Austin Romine.
Baseball is way too fickle – you almost always go for the established star over the “can’t miss” prospect.
Charlie Kelly July 9th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
anyone who does not like this deal should not be a baseball fan. the nba is maybe more your cup of tea
—
Anyone who likes this deal is moronic.
–
Get this through your skull: Montero is not a CATCHING prospect. He can’t catch. He’s a 1B/DH prospect. We don’t need him at 1B, so now he’s a DH prospect. You don’t want to trade a lifelong DH for the best pitcher in baseball? Thats moronic. Nice try though.
“CAN ANYONE NAME A BETTER PLAYER YOU WOULD WANT RIGHT NOW???”
For starters, that guy from Mississippi who plays for a major league team in Houston.
His name is a homonym for the guy who assassinated John Fitzgerald Kennedy.
Why would Cliff Lee not sign with the Yankees in the off season? They can top any salary offer, they will most likely win #28 this year with him, he and CC are close and the Yankees probably have the best clubhouse in baseball. What else is there?
“So you of all people actually think its a good idea to trade the best offensive prospect in the minors for a two month rental?”
How about to come damn close to guaranteeing a repeat championship? To keep him off the Rays? Because there’s no room for Montero in the organization?
mark….do you like winning championships or do you think they are just a yankee right? They dont happen every day. Remember the last 10 years. Lee puts them in the best possible position to repeat now.
Let’s assume this trade is going to happen.
What is the optimistic approach?
1. They trade Javy for solid help this year and beyond
2. Yanks win the WS this year.
3. Lee signs an extension
4. With the draft pick they save, a top 5-10 player slips to them in the 1st round due to signability issues
5. Yanks are heavy favorites to win more WS over the next several seasons
6. Romine or Sanchez develop into premium, top 10 prospects
I’ll let someone else handle the pessimistic take
4.
Looks like the deal will be a three-for-one.
Montero, Adams and ?
Get this through your skull: Montero is not a CATCHING prospect. He can’t catch. He’s a 1B/DH prospect. We don’t need him at 1B, so now he’s a DH prospect. You don’t want to trade a lifelong DH for the best pitcher in baseball? Thats moronic. Nice try though.
—
Sigh.. how do you get through life being so retarded?
Great Post Charlie !
not sure where that last “4″ came from
go away “4″ !
I don’t see this as overkill. You can never have enough pitching especially when you have A.J as your #2, a 38 year old Pettitte and an inconsistent Vazquez in your potential playoff rotation. Because you know Phil Hughes would not be starting in the postseason with his innings limit of 170 innings looming. I hate losing Montero but getting Lee without sacrificing a first round draft pick is a good move. We can now move Vazquez for pitching prospects and keep our picks.
JM July 9th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
The Yankees will sign Lee to an extension. This is not just a rental, folks. Cash is not stupid, even though some like to think he is.
_______
This is a rental. Yankees just rented Lee to themselves instead of another team. Lee was going to be a Yankee with or without a trade.
The funniest part about all this is if Ruben Amaro isn’t a complete dunce and holds onto Lee no one on here is
rantingtalking about this today.MTU,
see GB7′s post above
MTU (aka GBURL) July 9th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
Looks like the deal will be a three-for-one.
Montero, Adams and ?
*****************************
I guess that’s the “snag” that one of the writers mentioned earlier.
MTU,
Its sounding like a done deal and if Cash can flip Javy for a bat like Werth then the Yankees become a significantly better team for 2010. I really hate losing Montero though.
I’ve explained why this is a terrible deal time and time again. You all are either ignoring me or simply can’t read because everything I’m saying makes perfect sense. Whatever, enjoy the deal, i’m outta here
Vasquez holds all the cards . .he has a no trade clause
————————————————————————
Are you sure about that? If he does then the Yankees will just send him to a contending team in the NL where he is best suited to pitch.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38046122
Yankee Finances. wow.
The conception that Cliff Lee is the best pitcher in baseball, when he isn’t even the best pitcher on his own team, is so absurd that it would be laughable if I weren’t so angry right now.
Cashman has also said many times that innings limits don’t apply to the playoffs.
Hughes should be good to go. Stop counting him out there.
MONTERO WAS NEVER GOING TO BE A FULL TIME PLAYER IN NY
LGY,
very true….he comes off looking awful in all of this.
Mike RI July 9th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Vasquez holds all the cards . .he has a no trade clause
*******
I thought it only applies to West Coast teams.
No one thinks it’s a bad idea to pay twice?
MONTERO WAS NEVER GOING TO BE A FULL TIME PLAYER IN NY
MONTERO WAS NEVER GOING TO BE A FULL TIME PLAYER IN NY
MONTERO WAS NEVER GOING TO BE A FULL TIME PLAYER IN NY
MONTERO WAS NEVER GOING TO BE A FULL TIME PLAYER IN NY
MONTERO WAS NEVER GOING TO BE A FULL TIME PLAYER IN NY
MONTERO WAS NEVER GOING TO BE A FULL TIME PLAYER IN NY
MONTERO WAS NEVER GOING TO BE A FULL TIME PLAYER IN NY
does it make sense yet?
“I?ve explained why this is a terrible deal time and time again. You all are either ignoring me or simply can?t read because everything I?m saying makes perfect sense. Whatever, enjoy the deal, i?m outta here”
You’re bright and insightful.
Thanks for the input. It was nice to know that I hadn’t completely lost my mind.
Blake-
Less money for the Light-tower insurance.
Sorry. But sometimes you just have to laugh to take the sting out.
Erin-
That would not seem to be a snag to me just a minor obstacle. Once you let go of a Montero the rest is easy.
BD-
What were you referring to ?
dan July 9th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
You saying it a million times doesn’t make it true.
Quote anywhere that says Montero can’t hack it as a catcher, and we’ll talk.
Bonus, the Yankees probably will be facing a minor leaguer on short notice now tonight.
BD – i’ll give it a go for the negative side.
1.) montero turns into a power hitting monster in the next 5 years.
2.) the yankees sign him his first year of free agency to replace teixeira.
how did i do?
Making sure number 28 is as close to a sure thing as possible TODAY is bigger and much more important to a franchise like the Yankees than the hope that Montero helps towards more championships down the line. Especially when you factor in the Yankee catching depth.
During a year when the Yankee supposedly have one of the worst farm systems in baseball it looks like they are going to be able to trade for one of the best pitchers in baseball. Scary thought for the future as the Yanks continue to build their farm.
“Vasquez holds all the cards . .he has a no trade clause”
According to Cot’s….
limited no-trade clause blocking deals to NL West & AL West clubs
dan July 9th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
mark….do you like winning championships or do you think they are just a yankee right? They dont happen every day. Remember the last 10 years. Lee puts them in the best possible position to repeat now.
________
I love winning championships and the Yankees now can win a championship, won it last year with less. Paying for players twice when you don’t have a dying need for that player makes no sense to me. But cashman must know what he is doing if we get Lee ill be the first one to get his Jersey I’m a Yankee fan first. Ill just stop watching Mariner games for the near future for fear of seeing Jesus baptizing and converting pitchers.
I agree, I never got why the Phillies traded Lee as part of the Halladay deal. They just exchanged one ace for another. Maybe Lee told them he wouldn’t sign there or something. Otherwise, it’s crazy. And for a full season of Lee it sure doesn’t sound like they got elite, can’t miss prospects.
“Quote anywhere that says Montero can’t hack it as a catcher, and we’ll talk.”
check any Keith Law chat from this year and you’ll find one….not saying he’s right but there are plenty of people out there that think that way.
haha i can say anything now, well never know if its true. I just want another championship. When we get it, ill be pumped. And remind all you peoples that you complained we got Lee
# Irreverent Discourse July 9th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
BD – i’ll give it a go for the negative side.
1.) montero turns into a power hitting monster in the next 5 years.
2.) the yankees sign him his first year of free agency to replace teixeira.
how did i do?
Felix pitching to Montero. Felix perfect game. Montero grandslam.
LGY-
The suppostion that the Yankees do not have a strong farm system is as bogus as it gets.
It appears that Mark Prior is making his comback closer to being reality and the Yanks are looking. If he is closer to being as good as he used to be, he’d make a great option as an EIG for NYYs. It takes a lot of wear and tear off of his arm. Certainly worth a shot to see what he could do.
Another thing.
No one was willing to trade a Top 5 prospect in baseball for Cliff Lee.
Why should the Yankees?
Charlie Kelly–FWI, I like this deal, and I am far from moronic. If you can’t disagree without calling names, leave or grow up.
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....0tkDEZbrSN
Lee info part 2
I can see the arguments on either side of this. No one is a “moron” or “idiot” for falling on one side or the other.
It’s never an easy decision to trade a top prospect for an established player.
I’m not even sure where I fall on this, whether I “like” the deal or not. I don’t think I would dislike it if it happens, but I won’t dislike it if it doesn’t, either.
# dan July 9th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
haha i can say anything now, well never know if its true. I just want another championship. When we get it, ill be pumped. And remind all you peoples that you complained we got Lee
—————
Right, because we have reservations, we must be “complainers”.
You would have traded Hughes for Santana, and have had egg in your face. Contrary to popular belief, not all that glitters is gold.
This rental junk is just nonsense.
I think we’re all in agreement that the Yankees with Lee this year have a pretty good shot at winning the WS. A pretty good shot to say the least.
So you’re telling me then that Lee will come over here to a great team, great clubhouse, with his friend CC, in a city he likes, will win the WS and then walk away from that??? Especially considering the Yankees will no doubt offer him more $$ than anyone else.
Get real. Once he’s here he’s staying, extension or not.
mark, yanks won it with less last year bc they were able to get away with 3 starting pitchers.
plus is our bullpen last year really “less” than this year….. dont think so. This move allows them to put hughes back in the pen in the playoffs and use lee CC andy and burnett in the playoffs if javy gets traded
Joe from LI-
Now for the Javy part of the trade. A three way ? Remeber the possibility ?
You might turn out to be almost as famous as Pat M.
What an exciting time to be a Yankee fan.
The best may just get better.
Will the cruelty never end.
11:20am: The Mariners will obtain Montero and Adams plus another prospect, according Bob Nightengale of USA Today (via Twitter).
mlbtraderumors.com
G-C – enough of your stupidity.
Felix – 6-5, 128.2 innings, 3.01 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 3.05 k/bb, 8.5 k/9, 3.18 FIP
Cliff – 8-3, 102.2 innings, 2.34 ERA, .95 WHIP, 14.83 K/BB, 7.73 k/9, 2.21 FIP
Explain to me which of those pitchers is better, without bringing up your disdain for cliff lee from 3 years ago.
rj July 9th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
This rental junk is just nonsense.
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No one is arguing that it’s a rental.
It’s the cost of paying twice for a player who would be a Yankee in 2011 anyway.
“Another thing.
No one was willing to trade a Top 5 prospect in baseball for Cliff Lee.
Why should the Yankees?”
Because Cashman is a moron.
Like I said, I’m turning my attention to the Nets. Should be exciting to watch a HOMEGROWN team develop!
so what’s the consensus on giving up Montero? mostly negative?
also just saw that Lebron will save 12.5 million in state income taxes by playing in Florida, so that makes up the money lost in taking a pay cut
The critics of this deal are delusional in thinking that Lee is a lock to sign with the Yankees after the season either way. You don’t know that.
If they sign Lee they get to keep their No. 1 pick. If they don’t they’ll have their No. 1, plus a bonus No. 1 and a sandwich pick, too.
Montero is a very good hitting prospect, maybe even a GREAT hitting prospect. Adams is no big deal andit appears no significant pitching prospect is involved. Lee makes you more likely to win the World Series.
It’s true that the Yankees are paying more for Lee for a half year than Seattle did for a whole year, but that’s on the Phillies for accepting inadequate compensation.
Austinmac you’re absolutely right.
Sorry to everyone I insulted, this deal has me crazed. I truly think it’s the worst deal Cashman has ever made. Calling you all moronic, idiots, retarded is wrong and I apologize.
This is ridiculous I need a smoke break
# vblade July 9th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Another thing.
No one was willing to trade a Top 5 prospect in baseball for Cliff Lee.
Why should the Yankees?
Because they know the Yankees will sign him in the offseason.
vblade – two things. why trade a top 5 prospect for lee – gaurentee Montero isnt in the top 5 anymore. and because we dont need him
and no i wasnt willing to deal hughes for santana. thats dumb – hughes had a spot one day in the rotation. Montero has no place to play.
With a net loss being Montero, Vazquez, Adams, perhaps someone like Thames too, and net gain being just Werth & Lee (of COURSE he’ll eventually get an extension) the Yanks will have improved. A lot. Hughes has to be off limits in the Lee trade, but a fairly good pitching prospect or two might be worth throwing in if it keeps Lee out of Boston or Tampa.
CC. Lee. AJ. Hughes. Pettitte year-to-year. Mo closing. Joba waiting to close or start.
That rotation would be a killer for as long as Pettitte can keep cruising and Bad AJ only makes limited appearances.
Doreen,
You know I am all for trading prospects for established players, but something about this one doesn’t make sense to me.
Mainly the fact that we can sign Lee as a free agent in the off season and not give up anything other than a draft pick for him.
What the Yankees are essentially saying is Montero is worth giving up for the 1/2 season of Lee we’ll be gaining by getting him now (and assuming the future in an extension) and we’ll still keep our first round pick since we won’t be spending it to sign Cliff Lee.
This trade is Montero and others for Cliff Lee and a first round pick.
When you look at it that way, you HAVE to make this deal. Who wouldn’t trade their best prospect for a Cy Young contender and a first round pick.
That’s why this is a done deal and why we as fans have to come to terms with the logic behind it.
It’s a clear win for the Yankees.
hypothetically speaking………if Lee got traded to another team………….and then did a Halladay…..i.e………….signed an extension for 3-4 years………….all the “hate this trade people”
would be screaming……”why didn’t Cashman trade for Lee”.
Get him now…………help this year………..and for a few years to come.
again…………..can never have enough pitching.
vblade – i like how you assume you know what people thought about the santana deal because of their opinion on this one. the santana deal was a compeltely different story.
dan July 9th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
vblade – two things. why trade a top 5 prospect for lee – gaurentee Montero isnt in the top 5 anymore. and because we dont need him
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He’s the #4 ranked prospect in all of baseball. Look it up…
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....UbYlqeXiOI
Part 3
VB,
you make perfect sense why should the Yankees give up a top 5-10 prospect in baseball no other team will do that, another reason why this trade is stupid.
“Jesus just Baptized one to right and Seattle takes a 3-1 lead”
1-2 years from now
“Jesus just Baptized one to right and gives LEE and the Yankees a 3-1 lead”
If the Yankees win a championship this year it won’t be because of Cliff Lee. It will be because of the pieces they already have in place that made this the best team in baseball by a longshot already.
So any “I told you so” if the Yankees win the World Series is totally off the table. The bigger I “told you so” will be when Montero is mashing and Arod and Jeter are nothing but overpaid drags on the franchise.
Cashman will be so thrilled that he left the DH spot open then!
and mark, i think they had more last year…..damon and matsui replaced by granderson (225 hitter WOOOO) and nick johnson…
you keep saying they did it with less last year, but im not buying it
vblade – yea before the season…look at the halfway point or at the end of the year. bet hes not 4th anymore buddy!!!!
Thing is, we don’t lose that many prospects at all.
The farm system is in great condition, Adams was never an outstanding prospect for us.
Thing is what we consider weak, other teams might need greatly. Every team has a different demand, for the assets/pieces that their team is in need of.
If its just Montero, Adams and not a pitching prospect hopefully. Then it’s alright, Jesus hurts but Lee is a good return.
# Irreverent Discourse July 9th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
vblade – i like how you assume you know what people thought about the santana deal because of their opinion on this one. the santana deal was a compeltely different story.
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How is it that much different? The argument that Montero has no place on this team because he can’t hack it as a catcher is bogus. He has a place on this team – right after Posada retires/gets a permanent DH gig, which is coming very soon.
Aside from this, can someone explain to me why it’s a brilliant idea to pay TWICE?
Hello people. Here’s a thought. No one here is going to change anyone else’s mind. Whether you’re for the deal or against it. To justify it/defend it or to curse it. Everyone has and is entitled to their own opinion – all of which should be welcome here. We are not making the decisions here. We do not read the scouting reports. We do not have access to the information that Cashman, Damon Oppenheimer, or Mark Newman has on the farm. Nor their scouting reports on Lee. We don’t work for the Yankees. We’re fans and we all love our team and to talk baseball. So relax. It is what it is. Like it or hate it, it’s out of your hands.
Besides, when the Yankees win another world series, or the next 5 – are you really going to care Montero was traded?
The Red Sox are going away: they’re 5 games behind the Yankees. If they fall to say 8 games back a little while after the All-Star Break, there’s no way they’re winning the division with 2.5 months to go esp. if/when the Yanks land Lee. It’s Win The Wildcard Time for them if that happens. It doesn’t help them that their final three games of the season are vs.the Yankees thus that’s three less meaningful games vs.the Yanks because the Yanks will clinch a playoff spot well before then.
Now to Lee. ‘Say they got Lee before tonight’s game. Wouldn’t he have to pitch against Seattle tomorrow or Sunday? Would Seattle be cool with that? Wouldn’t trading him before tonight’s game and having him face your team tonight/tomorrow/Sunday be in bad form with your fans? I guess they’d have to deal with facing Lee if they traded him within the next two days. He has to make one more start before the break with someone. Honestly, as much as I want him in Yankee pinstripes asap, I would not mind if he went 7 IP 0-2 ER strong vs.the Yanks as long as the Yanks were tied 0-0/1-1/2-2 or up 1-0/2-0/2-1 because he’s further showing all of us he is gonna kick a ss for the Yanks after the Break, if he can keep the Yankee offense to 0-2 ER.
One Time July 9th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
hypothetically speaking………if Lee got traded to another team………….and then did a Halladay…..i.e………….signed an extension for 3-4 years………….all the “hate this trade people”
would be screaming……”why didn’t Cashman trade for Lee”.
Get him now…………help this year………..and for a few years to come.
again…………..can never have enough pitching.
_________
Lee has stated that he will be a free agent, Yankees want him the next year, the Yankees get him nest year.
G. Love,
I think something must have really spooked Cashman regarding Lee and the possibility that he may sign an extension with another team before this winter….thats the only reason I can think of for doing this deal now.
G-C -
One deal does not take away from the “homegrownness” of the Yankees. First, they do have other homegrown catchers in the system – good ones. Second, they already have several homegrowns starting on this year’s team and on the bench.
Pitching is difficult for the Yankees to “home grow,” because of where they are in the draft. The pitchers they get are usually risky and not sure things – they’d NEVER EVER get a Strasburg, for instance. So it makes sense for them to use some of their farm product to acquire elite pitching.
As I said, I can live with or without this deal being finalized.
But if they make it and Cliff Lee does as good a job for them as he’s done for the Phillies, Mariners and Indians, it won’t matter what Montero does. In fact, if Montero (and Austin Jackson, too, for that matter) go on to have successful careers, it speaks well for Yankees scouting and development.
BloggingBombers I just can’t wait to hear what Dan Gilbert has to say if the Yankees actually get Cliff Lee. #CrazyCavsOwner
Lee has made it absolutely clear that he becomes FA at the end of the season.
So let’s get the someone else will extend him crap out of the way now.
Mike RI July 9th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Vasquez holds all the cards . .he has a no trade clause
____________________________________________________
His contract states he must remain on the east coast. Philly is in the east.
vblade when arod is late 30s in a year or so, you dont think hes gunna need reps at dh, or how bout jeter, and tex wont be young forever.
LOL – I love how the blog is full of Yankee stockholders this morning, all worried about the financial implications of this deal. Everyone is worried about the “cost” if this deal happens.
Basically, it comes down to this question: Is Jesus Montero worth the cost of 1 championship. I agree that is a legitimate question.
I don’t like this move at all. The Yanks can get Lee after this season they don’t need him now. Especially not for Montero. If it was any other prospects than I wouldn’t care but not him. Boston traded Hanley but they got Beckett who wouldn’t be a free agent for a 2 or 3 years. Lee is a rental. Even if he signs an extension which he obviously will they don’t need him now. Cashman claims they would hold onto their prospects but now he would of traded Tabata, Jackson and Montero. I really hope it doesn’t happen. If you trade a prospect like Monero its for a young pitcher like Josh Johnson not someone who you can get next season. What happened to Cashman?!!
# dan July 9th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
vblade when arod is late 30s in a year or so, you dont think hes gunna need reps at dh, or how bout jeter, and tex wont be young forever.
————————
DH? Jesus Montero is NOT an exclusive DH. Show me where you read that, or even sniffed that.
i LOVE the lee trade
!!!
cause hes not playing catcher for more than a couple years!!!
dan July 9th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
vblade when arod is late 30s in a year or so, you dont think hes gunna need reps at dh, or how bout jeter, and tex wont be young forever.
______
No one needs Montero to be Pudge behind the plate he needs to be serviceable, and he has shown in the minors he has the ability to be serviceable.
vblade July 9th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
rj July 9th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
This rental junk is just nonsense.
————-
No one is arguing that it’s a rental.
It’s the cost of paying twice for a player who would be a Yankee in 2011 anyway.
==================================================
I get that. But think about the difference in our chances to win the world series with him pitching for us versus our chances to win the world series if he goes to Minnesota and we have to face him twice in the first round of the playoffs. I’d like to win the world series this year. Nothing is certain in life (including Montero’s future), but I like our chances a lot better with him than facing him. I make the trade if I’m Cashman for that reason.
Montero is probably estatic about the trade. He will see the field this year.
Darrin July 9th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
LOL – I love how the blog is full of Yankee stockholders this morning, all worried about the financial implications of this deal. Everyone is worried about the “cost” if this deal happens.
Basically, it comes down to this question: Is Jesus Montero worth the cost of 1 championship.
————-
The Yankees are fully capable of winning a championship this year without Cliff Lee.
Hell, they beat him to get one.
An executive involved in trade talks for Cliff Lee tells Buster Olney of ESPN.com that a deal between the Mariners and Yankees is “just about done.”
rotoworld.com
# vblade2 July 9th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
i LOVE the lee trade
!!!
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I think this is the first time someone has made an attempt to “imposterize” me.
Honored!
If anybody thinks the Yankees are hated now just wait till this deal goes down, if it does.
Charles Manson, or Jeffrey Dahmer will be more well liked than the Yankees.
Can wait to hear all the whining if this goes down.
It will drown out the sound out of all the palnes at JFK.
Too funny.
For someone who has been saying he’s “done with the Yankees” for the past hour, G-C sure is sticking around a long time.
The Pirates are a team chock full of good young talent. Pittsburgh needs fans like you G-C. Have at it.
And make sure to get a Tony Sanchez jersey.
I don’t like this trade. With or without Lee, the Yanks have a reasonable shot at winning the Series this year. Lee gives us a better chance, but it’s still not a lock. There’s just too much luck in 3 short series.
What happened to Cashman’s plan to bring home-grown players onto the team, the way the core four were broght up? It seems like we keep trading our top prospects before we get a chance to find out how good they are.
“vblade when arod is late 30s in a year or so, you dont think hes gunna need reps at dh, or how bout jeter, and tex wont be young forever.”
I don’t want him getting reps at DH because I think he’ll be a drag on the franchise by the time he’s that age. As will Jeter and Teixeira. Thats the caveat of giving Alexander Emmanuel the contract he was given. He’s already mired in a steep decline but because he won us a championshp last year no one, and rightfully so, cares at all.
This is a joke.
MY POINT IS THAT:
For the past two months I’ve read posts from almost ALL OF YOU extolling the value of Cashman’s new philosophy to “not pay twice.” You ALL cited it CONFIDENTLY as a major contributor to the positive overhaul of the organization and the restoration of a dynasty team.
I guess when its actually on the table, none of you care about prospects. You would have traded Robinson Cano for Randy Johnson if the Diamondbacks believed he would have been this good because “it wouldn’t matter. WED BE WINNING THE WORLD SERIES FOR TWO YEARS, GUARANTEED! SO WHO GIVES A FLYING CRAP ABOUT THOSE PROSPECTS!!!?”
vblade – true I agree with you. But their percentages of winning does up with Lee the rest of this season. Not only because they would have Lee, but because the Twins, Rangers or Rays would NOT have him. Yes, they beat his team last year to win the title, but they lost to him personally twice. If the Rangers or Twins get Lee, I doubt the Yankees would have the luxury of losing to him twice in a 5 game series.
vblade – it was completely different. hughes was the ace of the future, montero is the… batter with no position of the future… melky was our starting center fielder that year. this does not require that we touch the ML roster. it is COMPLETELY different.
montero was never going to be a fulltime DH. posada, jeter, and arod will be the fulltime DH. he can’t catch, we all know that. tex has 1B. so… wher ewas he going to play?
and I can only assume that every time you’ve said something in your life, you’ve NEVER change your mind when your situation improved 2 months later. right?
# rj July 9th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
vblade July 9th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
rj July 9th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
This rental junk is just nonsense.
————-
No one is arguing that it’s a rental.
It’s the cost of paying twice for a player who would be a Yankee in 2011 anyway.
==================================================
I get that. But think about the difference in our chances to win the world series with him pitching for us versus our chances to win the world series if he goes to Minnesota and we have to face him twice in the first round of the playoffs. I’d like to win the world series this year. Nothing is certain in life (including Montero’s future), but I like our chances a lot better with him than facing him. I make the trade if I’m Cashman for that reason.
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For one year. And you’ll have Cliff Lee next year.
Lee is an amazing pitcher, but we can beat him, and we can win without him.
And we’d welcome him in the offseason with open arms, at the cost of only money.
G. Love -
There must be particular guys in the draft the Yankees are targeting that they wouldn’t want to lose. It’s another way to look at it, sure.
As I said, I’m basically Switzerland here.
But I do think the Yankees are thinking of more things here than I possibly could.
“If anybody thinks the Yankees are hated now just wait till this deal goes down, if it does.”
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Being hated means you are good and feared.
Not many people hated the Miami Heat last season.
The more people hate the Yankees, the better they are probably doing.
If the Yanks are going to make a trade that makes them less hated, it’s probably a BAD deal.
G-C i’m still waiting for you to explain to me how cliff lee isn’t the best pitcher in baseball… oh right, you can’t because HE IS.
Darrin July 9th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
LOL – I love how the blog is full of Yankee stockholders this morning, all worried about the financial implications of this deal. Everyone is worried about the “cost” if this deal happens.
Basically, it comes down to this question: Is Jesus Montero worth the cost of 1 championship. I agree that is a legitimate question.
________
No thats not question Yankees can win a championship with or without Lee, agreed Lee does give them a better chance but how much of a better chance? The real question is what is worth more 6 months and playoffs with Lee? Or Having both Lee and Montero 6 months from now?
imagine the Seattle crowd if Lee switches dugouts this series
I just hope Gary Sanchez becomes what everyone thinks he will become.
We can’t assume Lee will sign for us either way. We don’t know. But I’m hoping/expecting that The Cash Man has a good reason to believe that he’ll sign Lee if he makes this deal. I don’t think he’d make the trade otherwise.
But you can’t sit back and say we’ll get him in the offseason. First of all, he makes them much better this year. Second, if he goes somewhere else, you take a risk that he’ll like it there and sign.
Montero sounds like a masher but if he’s not a C then his value to the yanks is limited. vblade, Posada’s needing the DH spot is the reason Montero has no position. All signs indicate that he won’t be able to catch everyday at the big league level.
If Cliff Lee had gone to the Twins and allowed them to beat the Yankees in the playoffs this year would that have changed anybody’s mind on the deal?
# Irreverent Discourse July 9th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
vblade – it was completely different. hughes was the ace of the future, montero is the… batter with no position of the future… melky was our starting center fielder that year. this does not require that we touch the ML roster. it is COMPLETELY different.
montero was never going to be a fulltime DH. posada, jeter, and arod will be the fulltime DH. he can’t catch, we all know that. tex has 1B. so… wher ewas he going to play?
and I can only assume that every time you’ve said something in your life, you’ve NEVER change your mind when your situation improved 2 months later. right?
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OK, I think the contention here is the premise that Montero can’t catch full time.
Why? Where do you all get this information? Hell, Seattle is trading for him because they’re sticking him at catcher.
“You ALL cited it CONFIDENTLY”
—————
not me.
Can you give us a time estimate on when you are going to stop following the Yankees?
It’s been over an hour with your “threats” to go watch the Nets?
yet you’re still here……
The Yankee farm system is deeper. They can trade for Lee now. Johan would have helped us make the playoffs in 08, but wouldn’t have gone far.
Yanks wanted CC more anyway.
“Hell, they beat him to get one.”
The Yankees might have beaten the Phillies, but Lee won when he pitched, so they didn’t beat “him”.
Atleast we face 1 Ace instead of two ace’s vs. Mariners this time around.
New Post: Two for one: About Montero and Adams
If Lee gets traded to NYY today, what uni does he wear for ASG?
Actually, they beat Pedro to get one. They never beat Cliff Lee.
Once again guys sorry for the insults..
Just one question for those in favor of the deal. If montero goes on to be a great hitter – .300 40 hr 120 RBI and the yanks lose the world series this year will you all be on this blog saying how great this deal was??
If this happens Ill be avoiding Seattle games like the plague seeing Jesus hit moon shots will be too tough.
“Ochocinco sees himself winning two rings in the coming year, one with the Bengals and one with the Miami Heat.
It remains to be seen if the Heat will have enough cap space to bring Ocho on-board. “
Darrin July 9th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
vblade – true I agree with you. But their percentages of winning does up with Lee the rest of this season. Not only because they would have Lee, but because the Twins, Rangers or Rays would NOT have him. Yes, they beat his team last year to win the title, but they lost to him personally twice. If the Rangers or Twins get Lee, I doubt the Yankees would have the luxury of losing to him twice in a 5 game series
=============================================
Thank you sir. At least someone gets it.
Looks like the days of Boston’s “hometown discounts’ are becoming a thing of the past. Their 2nd round pick from this year, Brandon Workman is threatening to sit out the year and reentering nexy year’s draft if he doesn’t get a first round bonus.
“•Red Sox second rounder Brandon Workman and his advisor have given clear indications that the pitcher would not accept a deal for second-round money, according to Alex Speier of WEEI.com. Workman has turned down a six-figure bonus before and appears ready to re-enter the draft in 2011 if the Red Sox don’t offer him the bonus he feels he deserves.”
charlie – if the yankees lose the world series this year, it won’t be because they traded away a guy that isn’t playing for them.
“I think something must have really spooked Cashman regarding Lee and the possibility that he may sign an extension with another team before this winter….thats the only reason I can think of for doing this deal now.”
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This make a lot of sense to answer the question of why Cash would make this move.. The Twins are the team that really wanted Lee and have a good catcher to get the deal done. I know the owner had a lot of money, so I wonder if Cashman thought they would off traded for Lee and then offered him a ton of money?? Then this deal would make sense otherwise I don’t like it.
BD-
You are preaching to the choir.
I have equipose whichever way it goes.
The analogy in this trade may be when the Sox traded Hanley for Beckett.
Couple of contrasts though.
Hanley is a SS Jesus may wind up as a 1b or a DH.
Beckett was younger than Lee.
The overall concept is the same. trade a stud prospect for a great pitcher.
I just hope that jesus does not turn out to be as good as Hanley.
If the Sox could do that trade over I bet they wouldn’t.
Hope we don’t wind up with that residual feeling.
That’s why they pay Cash the big bucks.
I’m for this trade but I did think the Yankees could get a younger top rotation starter for a Montero package. Obviously, they know the details of all the offers and interest around the league for Montero so Cliff Lee was the best available even though he’s 31.
Rotoworld already quoted on previous thread, and link provided!
dan July 9th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Dan, I’m all for the trade, but Montero is going to be a full-time player where ever he goes! IMO, he will be an All-Star catcher.
Is Montero an awful catcher or just okay? Does he call a good game? I mean we’ve done well with Posada behind the plate. And it hasn’t hurt us.
MTU,
I’m not so sure the Sox would take that trade back. Especially with Hanley’s behavior this year. They won it all in 07, and probably don’t do that without Beckett. Hanley’s a great talent, but he hasn’t played a big game in his life. Jury’s still out on whether he can be the leader or even one of the best players on a championship team.
This is a reaction by the Yanks to the very real possibility that the Rays would have acquired Lee and the Yanks could be looking at 12 more games and a possible ALCS matchup against the Rays with Lee/Price/Garza/Niemann/Sheilds vs. CC/Pettitte/AJ/Javy/Hughes….
Lee was going to be a Yankee come November anyway….by making this move and a corresponding Javy for Werth deal then the Yanks are a virtual lock to repeat! Lock!
The thing is that Jack Z played this perfectly and essentially traded Phillipe Aumont and 2 B-C level prospects for 2 months of Cliff Lee/Jesus Montero/David Adams and a 3rd B-B= level prospect….
Just more evidence that the Mariners are in great hands. Tremendous GM’ing by him….
The moron in all of this is Ruben Amaro…he should never have traded Lee in the 1st place and instead had a rotation of Halladay/Lee/Hamels and been looking at a 3rd straight WS and a real chance of beating us this time….