Report: Yankees close to trading for Cliff Lee
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Jul 09, 2010 
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Here’s something for Yankees fans to wake up to this morning: The Yankees are “on the brink” of landing Cliff Lee from the Mariners, the Post is reporting, with Jesus Montero as the centerpiece of a potential deal.
Speculation about Lee has been rampant for weeks, but it typically had been the Mets as the New York team with the most interest. The Yankees, as is often the case under Brian Cashman, were seen to be on the periphery but it appears they have swooped in and could be close to adding the stud lefty. There was no word on whether any deal would include a window to sign Lee, who is a free agent at the end of the season.
In an odd scheduling twist, Lee is supposed to face the Yankees tonight, though the Post says it’s possible the Yankees could keep him out of this weekend’s series if a deal is consummated today.
* That’s an AP shot of Lee
rj,
I know Werth is a good player. So I’m not against him being on the team. I just don’t want to see them give him a 5 yr / 65 mil deal. But you bring up a good point about them letting him walk. Is Werth definitely a Type A? If so, and the centerpiece of the deal really is Javy, I guess it would make more sense
Is Lee necessary? I’ve heard Montero is the centerpiece of the trade… I guess you develop the Montero type players to get studs like Lee.
Oh please…let it be so..
REPOST
NYY626 July 9th, 2010 at 9:25 am
Personally, i think getting Lee now is a little overkill. I’d rather wait till 2011. I mean 3/5 starters are on the all star team.
In other news, Andy’s Dove Ads are out There really are no words….
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play&.....d=10906542
repost:
Shame Spencer July 9th, 2010 at 9:25 am
Again, is it totally necessary, or even a good idea, to get rid of Javy if we acquire Lee? Personally, I like the flexibility we have with CC, AJ, Andy, Lee, Javy, and Phil.
If we could get Werth straight up for Javy knowing we’re just renting him, I’d have to think it over, but I’m not even sure the Phillies make that deal. I feel like we could pick up a bat elsewhere, I’d rather have the pitching.
I’m missing something with the Werth thing. Where does he fit?
Lee is the real deal ! . .
Not going to worry about this until it actually goes through.
The Yankees have put Montero on the table for Lee/Halladay already, so this is not a shock.
But, now that word is out that the Yanks are close to a deal, the other teams in this thing are sure to up their offer.
The last place these other teams want Lee to end up is the Yanks.
Not that I wouldn’t want Lee, but I’ll believe it when/if it actually happens. lol
Sounds like they aren’t too confident in signing him in the offseason. Maybe they got word he would sign an extension to whatever team traded for him? Sounds a bit bizarre though with Cashman never wanting to pay twice for (soon to be) free agents.
I love this move!! This would give us options. I’m thinking about sliding Hughes to our bullpen to limit his innings and strengthen our pen internally. Then giving us flexibility of trading Javy to the phillies for werth for the much needed bat.. # 28 Here we come!!!!
The one area theYanks are deep in is catching. While Austin Romine is not the offensive threat Montero is, he is certainly better than average hitterand a much better defensive catcher than Montero, so Yanks must consider him their catcher of the future. Also, they expect thatGary Sanchez will move quickly up the organiation ladder aswell. So losing Montero is not a killer for them
Would be sad to see Montero go if a deal like this does happen, but the Yankees minor league strength is the catching position for sure.
All those guys wouldn’t be kept around at any rate in the long run, should they pan out.
If you can have for years to come barring injury a rotation of
Sabathia
Lee
Burnett
Hughes
you take your chances. Andy is likely to retire after this season and the Yankees priority is not on resigning Vazquez.
I was against trading for Lee, because he was a free agent and we could wait, but who am I kidding the guy is a terrific pitcher and the Yankees will be using 4 pitchers in 7 game series in the playoffs this season, unlike last season when they only needed 3 because of how the games were scheduled.
Doreen -
I am assuming he would split DH/RF with Swish. They could really use his bat. I am not his biggest fan, but it is hard to deny that he would be a big addition to the lineup, especially in YS3.
“I’m missing something with the Werth thing. Where does he fit?”
They could use a right handed bat. Not sure they need one like Werth though. Think they need a 4th OF type moreso than a Werth, who would turn Swisher into a DH.
Good morning!
I wake up to this???
The Yankees must really be bearish on Montero sticking as a catcher, far more than I thought. Either that or they’re much higher on Romine’s all-around game than any of us thought. Cashman could easily acquire Lee using Romine in Montero’s place in the proposal.
It’s telling that Montero’s in the trade rather than Romine.
The front office certainly picked the right guy to keep out of Melky, Tabata, Jackson and Gardner.
They seem to know what they’re doing.
I do think Andy is retiring. Even without him, the budget shoots up with Lee according to RAB. If the Yankees want to add Werth or Crawford, the money isn’t there.
With CC, Lee, AJ and Hughes in next year’s rotation, Joba Chamberlain still has a shot to become a starter.
Doreen,
I’m guessing Werth wpuld get some DH time and rotate in LF and RF.
He would be a great additionp if the Phillies wpuld be willing to swap rentals with the Yankees….I don’t know if they would or not.
Whose odd man out in the outfield if the Yankees got Werth? Swish to DH?
I don’t think Cash would deal Montero unless he’s convinced Lee will sign an extension.
As I said in the last section, I am for it. Yanks have the prospects to do this deal ! Sure, Montero could turn out to be as good as Hanley Ramirez, but Beckett certainly helped Boston. Of course I would want Lee to have a long and more prosperous career in pinstripes !
Not that high on Werth, though. Swish is having an All-Star season and has done fine in the outfield.
I know Vasquez had a rough beginning to his stint in NY, but I really feel he turned a corner and has been hitting his stride.
Obviously, he is not the same calliber as Lee, but I would rather not give such a valuable prospect for a half season rental. Unless Lee is willing to sign an extension now, which I read he is unwilling to do
“I don’t think Cash would deal Montero unless he’s convinced Lee will sign an extension”
He wouldn’t. I also don’t think he’d do it unless he was concerned about him signing with another team in advance of free agency.
I went to sleep mad at Lebron and the Heat for complete excess, and I wake up to the Yankees close to getting Cliff Lee. I’m conflicted about this. I really wanted to see Montero make it as a homegrown player like Cano and Jeter.
I’m thinking Werth might be overkill. But what do I know?
(Plus I’d love to see Javy stick around – call me crazy)
If this happens, great!
BUT DO NOT PUT HUGHES IN THE BULLPEN! No more of this sissy crap from the Yankees who think limiting their young pitchers and babying them is good for their future. They are grown men and can handle it. Quit screwing with something that doesn’t need screwing with.
We don’t need Werth or Lee. Why don’t we trade for someone we need?
Bernie July 9th, 2010 at 9:35 am
I know Vasquez had a rough beginning to his stint in NY, but I really feel he turned a corner and has been hitting his stride.
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Me too! I’d hate to see him go.
HenryfromDC July 9th, 2010 at 9:35 am
I went to sleep mad at Lebron and the Heat for complete excess, and I wake up to the Yankees close to getting Cliff Lee. I’m conflicted about this. I really wanted to see Montero make it as a homegrown player like Cano and Jeter.
——————
No worries, Henry. The Yanks will have a homegrown catcher, one way or the other.
It’s amazing to think that Javy Vazquez is about to become the most valuable starter on the trade block.
There’s no question the Yanks can acquire Jason Werth straight up for Javy.
It’s a rental for a rental.
I agree that Werth would mostly DH and play RF.
Swisher should get most of his games in RF though, especially in home games.
espn:
The Seattle Mariners are pushing hard to complete a Cliff Lee trade, and the Yankees are closing in on a deal for the left-hander — but as of Friday morning, there was no agreement in place, sources say, and it’s possible that another team could step in and make a more aggressive bid.
Please say it isn’t so… dumb move, dumb dumb move…
#Billy D July 9th, 2010 at 9:35 am
?I don’t think Cash would deal Montero unless he’s convinced Lee will sign an extension?
He wouldn?t. I also don?t think he?d do it unless he was concerned about him signing with another team in advance of free agency.
_________________________________________
Agree with this 100 percent. Perhaps those Lee to Tampa rumors had some truth to them…
Billy d,
I agree. For cashman to make a move this bold I think it would have to mean that he 1) is positive he can sign lee to a new contract 2) he has information that would suggest that Lee may not be available this Winter….
You can NEVER EVER get enough pitching ! . .lets do it ! . .
If all happens as reported, Cliff Lee and Jason Werth will need to shave.
Montero must be falling off the Yankees radar with Austin Romine seen as the successor to Jorge after 2011.
It would seem that Swish and Werth would platoon in RF / DH roles.
Innings limits are fast approaching for the work of Phil Hughes.
The 5-man rotation seems pretty solid right now. Who would be bumped out?
He will sign an extension due to his buddy CC. Imagine if Tampa or Boston got Lee ? Ugh. The AL East is tough enough, and with Andy a year or so away from retirement, another good lefty is needed. We have many young catchers but I’m not sure if we have another Andy Pettitte down on the farm !
Cashman:
“I will move any player in the right trade”.
If Cash decides to go for Lee I would bet he insists on having a negotiating window for signing Lee to an extension.
Kudo’s to Pat M. who said that his sources had told him that the M’s were dispatching scouts to watch the Yankees MiLB teams weeks ago.
That’s when I started to have an open mind about the possibility of Lee being traded for.
We see what happens.
Paul Barry July 9th, 2010 at 9:41 am
The 5-man rotation seems pretty solid right now. Who would be bumped out?
*************************
Speculation is that they either deal Javy or put Hughes back in the pen.
Who leaves the rotation if they get Lee, then?
Stupid move if you ask me. Rather pick him up on the off season.
I’m not worried about another team swooping in at the last minute and neither are the Yankees. That’s where Jesus Montero comes in. No team has a comparable prospect to offer, let alone a catcher. If so, I’d like to know the name of that prospect and the team offering him.
I think blake nailed it. He must not be sure he can lock him up in the offseason and feel it is now or never to grab him. The SP market is fairly weak next year and if Andy retires and Lee signs an extension elsewhere, where do they turn?
This is a complicated one for the Yankee fan. One, it’s a move that would probably win the Yankees the World Series this year, so there’s that. But, the rotation is solid and they have a good chance to win it anyway. I hate to give up stud prospects like Montero, I mean we’re just getting used to having to deal with Austin Jackson being a star. I would rather take my chances on the current rotation, let Lee get traded to the NL and then sign Lee in the off-season.
Part of me thinks this is a leaked story to get the price up for the contenders.
SJ44 and Pat M. are certainly enjoying a great season. I’m tempted to never disagree with either one of them ever again
I anxiously await Andrew Brackman’s arrival.
Jeff -
That is quite the leap of faith…what if Lee gets traded to Minnesota and signs an extension? There is no guarentee he goes to the NL.
Jeff NJ July 9th, 2010 at 9:44 am
Part of me thinks this is a leaked story to get the price up for the contenders
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That’s what I’m thinking too. I guess we’ll see.
Bret-
I think several teams could compete with a Yankees offer.
For instance, the M’s were rumored to be very interested in what Texas had to offer.
A possible trade scenario had Smoak and Saltalamacchia going to the M’s for Lee.
I am also sure that the Rays could present a very attractive package as well.
If the Yanks are willing to include Montero that would make their proposal very strong though.
Even though our starting pitching has been great this year and Javy has seemed to figure it out, remember 2 things:
- you can NEVER have enough pitching. Lee is an HUGE upgrade no matter how you cut it
- no championship is every guaranteed.
Adding Cliff Lee allows you to put your throat on the competition. At it stands right now this team has a very good shot of winning the World Series, but nothing is definite. Adding Cliff Lee brings you that much closer to that possibility.
Game/series on the line the playoffs would you want:
1) Vasquez pitching and knowing you have Montero in AAA
OR
2) Lee pitching
I think that answer if pretty obvious.
Granted, the games are not played on paper, but if you have the ability to really improve your chances with potentially the BEST left handed pitcher in the league, in his prime, avoid him going to a competitor and helping you win a WS this year, I don’t see how you DON’T make this trade.
Rotoworld has the story up in it’s site about Lee/Yankees. http://www.rotoworld.com
Where do you put Werth? I don’t get this.
“If Cash decides to go for Lee I would bet he insists on having a negotiating window for signing Lee to an extension.”
He’ll have 90+ days of exclusive negotiating rights.
This has to be a lie, there is no way Cashman trades Montero, a top 5 prospect, for half a season of Cliff Lee. This deal has a snowball’s chance in hell of happening
It could be that Lee is wanting to have a more permanent home, and therefore has let it be known that he will work out an extension with a club that trades for him. That pushes the Yankees to go get him now rather than waiting.
I also think that the Yankees are concerned with Hughes innings pitched so far and that he might be showing some signs of hitting a wall. He is close to 100 innings, isn’t he? Hughes could be moved to long man/spot starter which limits the innings pitched. I also think the Yankees know that this is Pettitte’s last year and getting Lee now covers Andy leaving.
One way to not have to face Lee tonite would be for the Yankees to acquire him before tonite’s start.
Wouldn’t that be something.
Montero, Adams, and Pena for Lee ?
The M’s need a catcher and a ss badly.
If this Lee trade goes through then a swap with Philly for Werth makes some sense for both sides. The Phillies need a pitcher and may need Werth out of town and a reason to call up Brown and the Yankees need a right handed bat.
Only question would be would those two teams be willing to de with each other…I can’t think of a better match for the Yankees with a team Javy would accept a trade to.
That keeps Hughes in the rotation for the regular season and allows him to strengthen the bullpen in the playoffs.
If there is no window to sign him to an extension, then I don’t like this. We would lose Montero and still have to compete against other teams this winter? There has to be a window to sign the extension, which I’m sure the Yanks will be happy to do.
“Part of me thinks this is a leaked story to get the price up for the contenders’
Me too. Yanks may have interest but what’s the rush?
MTU,
The problem with the Twins and Rangers is they’re limited in how much they can offer for a rental because neither team has the money to extend Lee.
Besides, the Yankees have enough position player prospects to remake the Mariner offense.
David Adams is one of the best 2b prospects in baseball.
Eduardo Nunez, if part of the deal, is one of the best shortstop prospects.
werth is not coming to the yanks nor is he needed. the only reason to trade montero is they have minimum 2 other very good catching prospects 1 romine who theoretically can be ready next year.
lee makes sense especially since vazquez and $13 or $15 mill is gone this offseason and he will be traded now..Pettitte can retire after the year and the rotation is stacked. Lee will get a fortune also…
ed_price May not mean a thing, but one of #Phillies top scouts was there Monday when Javier Vazquez pitched for #Yankees
Send out one of the mental midgets…Burnett or Vazquez. They both are .500 pitchers. They both are hit or miss…I dont see the Yanks having a solid 5 man rotation with 2 pitchers who are hit or miss. Cliff Lee would upgrade the rotation significantly.
“The 5-man rotation seems pretty solid right now. Who would be bumped out?”
I do not understand the Yankees’ desire to limit his pitches! He’s 24 years old, he can pitch! They really are just babying their pitchers, much like they did with Joba. I can understand if he’s starting to struggle (which he is), but not to limit innings.
If the Yankees trade for Lee will they send Javy to Philly for Werth?
Philly would be crazy not to deal with the Yankees.
Javier Vazquez is the top starter on the trade market after Lee.
It doesn’t make sense. CC, Pettite, and either Hughes or Burnett (depending on the hot hand) is a strong postseason rotation. The Yanks have won WS’s with a lot less. This is statistically the best team in baseball right now, and the reason for it is clearly starting pitching, as the bats haven’t lived up to expectations and the bullpen has been terrible (except for Mo). Adding a starter, even a top of the line starter like Lee, is not going to address those faults. They can acquire a couple of relief pitchers without giving up a prospect like Montero – or perhaps try some internal options (albaladejo, melancon, etc.). And I’m sure an old coot that can still hit will become available before the trade deadline to DH – as it seems like Johnson isn’t coming back.
“The Road to History starts now! ”
Someone needs to take Lebron’s Twitter privileges away from him for his own good.
Bret-
Good point about the financial angle with the Twins and Rangers.
I think our trade might be more like I posted above.
Montero, Adams and Pena. Nunez should not be included if Montero is involved IMO.
Dude Montero ALONE is worth more than a Cliff Lee rental. So absurd…
keep jesus.
pat July 9th, 2010 at 9:57 am
?The Road to History starts now! ?
Someone needs to take Lebron?s Twitter privileges away from him for his own good.
***************************
LOL I agree.
Bret-
I don’t agree on the Yanks and Philly.JMO but I do not see them exchanging pieces.
Get Lee!!!!!
MTU (aka GBURL) July 9th, 2010 at 9:57 am
Bret-
Good point about the financial angle with the Twins and Rangers.
I think our trade might be more like I posted above.
Montero, Adams and Pena. Nunez should not be included if Montero is involved IMO.
*****************
I agree. I’d try to insert Pena. If they want Nunez, I want Brandon League coming over with Cliff Lee.
Bret
You assume that the Yanks could easily get this deal done with Romine as opposed to Montero and you are most probably wrong.
The Mariners are probably right now insisting that it’s Montero and not Romine and the yanks and Ca$h now have to decide if that’s a price they want to pay for the luxury of not having to face Lee in a short series with the Twins or Rangers lets say.
If they could get the deal done with Romine/Adams/Nova or Noesi it’d be done as I’m sure that is the Yanks preferred offer….Jack Z is playing his Cards right and insisting right now on Montero.
If I’m the Yanks I hold pat at Romine and if I can’t get him I’ll sign him in the offseason as he will definitely be there waiting for a check.
I would not make a trade for Lee unless he signs an extension. Not giving up highly rated minor league players for a half season of a starter who goes every 5th day. Yankee pitching is not a weakness.
“I agree. I’d try to insert Pena.”
I think they’re on to Pena being no good.
As for League. Big arm, but no more reliable than what’s here already.
Erin July 9th, 2010 at 9:55 am
ed_price May not mean a thing, but one of #Phillies top scouts was there Monday when Javier Vazquez pitched for #Yankees
***********
Philly is desperate for a starter so this definitely means something. Javier Vazquez is the best the Phillies can do. They need to ship out Werth the c o c k b l o c k e r.
I see zero reason to trade for Lee. Our rotation is fine as is.
Bret-
This is fun to speculate about but it is probably unlikely.
It very much goes against Casman’s MO.
Maybe he does suspect that Lee will not hit FA ?
That would not seem to make much sense from Lee’s perspective because if he did test FA he would be hotter than a red chile pepper.
One never knows what lurks in th hearts of Men.
BobKlap Yankees are saying no deal is finalized – yet – but one official says, “if sure feels like” Lee is on the way. Good work by @JoelSherman1
Anyone else hear the rumor that Werth was caught having an affair with Chase Utley’s wife? I heard it from a Philly fan. Werth will be traded, but I don’t think we have room for him.
Lee’s a great pitcher- no doubt about it! BUT, do the Yankees really need him? Who do you take out of the order? And now we’ll lose Montero… for a guy we don’t need?
Sabbathia doing great
Pettitte doing great
Vazquez doing very well since he straightened out
Hughes has had a great year
Burnett showing signs of getting it back together
… probably the best starting pitcher ERA in the Majors
… and most innings per start (I’m going to check these figures)
One other thing- I wonder, why has Lee changed teams so much? Why aren’t teams trying harder to keep him?
You smell that…oh yeah, it’s victory…
# Jeff NJ July 9th, 2010 at 10:05 am
Anyone else hear the rumor that Werth was caught having an affair with Chase Utley’s wife? I heard it from a Philly fan. Werth will be traded, but I don’t think we have room for him.
Heard the same thing.
MTU,
I agree a swap with Philly would probably be unlikely but I wouldn’t be opposed to it
I hate to lose Montero but if it happens at some point we have to assume that the Yankees know more about these things than we do and trust their judgement….
Jeff NJ July 9th, 2010 at 10:05 am
Anyone else hear the rumor that Werth was caught having an affair with Chase Utley?s wife? I heard it from a Philly fan. Werth will be traded, but I don?t think we have room for him.
************************
I saw something about that this morning.
Jeff, it was posted earlier about Werth and Utley’s wife. It may be another reason why he is being pushed a bit, and could have the Phillies accepting less just to move him.
You have to figure that if the story is true it would be a huge distraction in the clubhouse.
One other thing- I wonder, why has Lee changed teams so much? Why aren’t teams trying harder to keep him?
—
Because the teams trading for him think he’ll help them win a championship. For Philly it helped them get there and the Mariners thought they would contend this year.
“Werth will be traded, but I don’t think we have room for him”
No room? He’d arguably be the best outfielder on the team the second he walked in the door.
with the advent of this trade, one has to wonder which player is rated higher by the Yankees. Montero or Romine?
I don’t necessarily mean as a catcher, but rather the overall player.
additionally, would the Yankees prefer to move Montero instead of Romine, in a deal for Cliff Lee?
Lee’s a great pitcher- no doubt about it! BUT, do the Yankees really need him? Who do you take out of the order? And now we’ll lose Montero… for a guy we don’t need?
Sabbathia doing great
Pettitte doing great
Vazquez doing very well since he straightened out
Hughes has had a great year
Burnett showing signs of getting it back together
… probably the best starting pitcher ERA in the Majors
… and most innings per start (I’m going to check these figures)
One other thing- I wonder, why has Lee changed teams so much? Why aren’t teams trying harder to keep him?
—————————————
The Indians because the Indians needed to dump salary and after his 22-3 Cy Season there was no way they were keeping him. They weren’t contenders in 2009 so they figured it was better to start rebuilding sooner than later. The Phillies traded him because they are morons. They could have had both Lee and Halladay but they wanted to “replenish the farm system” from the prospects they lost acquiring Halladay (and Lee initially).
That now leaves him on the Mariners, and the Mariners know there is no chance in hell they can afford the salary he will command on the FA market in 2011.
SportsGeek,
I’ll take Lee in a heartbeat. And I’ll bet an extension is hammered out ASAP. Montero isn’t even the top catching prospect in our system, Romaine is. Plus we have Cervelli. Hughes is on an innings limit this year, and with Lee, we can shift him to the pen for the rest of the year. That also means we can basically skip Vasquez for the playoffs, and put him in the pen.
Good luck to your nephew SJ! Have a safe trip!
If Montero is looking to project more like a 1st Base then his way is blocked. Cash had been offering up Montero during the off season as well.
Lee had really seemed rocked by being traded away from the Phillies, it might have him feeling motivated to sign an extension rather than testing FA. That word would have gotten through to the Yankees management and might be some of the push to make it happen.
This is also a very different move than what it would have been to acquire Santana, as it was giving up pitching for pitching.
“The front office certainly picked the right guy to keep out of Melky, Tabata, Jackson and Gardner”
—————————————–
a very fair point, Brett
Clearly the Yankees are saying Austin Romine will be a better pro player than Jesus Montero who I LOVE, but Cliff Lee is special.
Plus Cervelli has been so great that, people inside the Yankees are saying they cant keep one or the other.
If we end up with Lee, the Mets and Phillies are locked in a division blood bath with nowhere to turn but Ted Lilly and Javier Vazquez.
We can start a bidding war between Mets and Phils
Cliff F’N Lee!
Facing the Yankees with Lee in the rotation?
If you’re a team that has some trouble facing lefties? You could be in big, big trouble.
Love Cisco, but his bat is not exactly comparable to Montero’s. And Montero is only 20 years old. It would hurt a lot to lose him but you don’t get a stud lefty pitcher who is proven in the World Series without giving up something big.
Montero has an awfully high ceiling as a hitter, though. As a catcher, not so much. They must really like Sanchez, as well as Romine.
It doesn’t matter if Montero is blocked in the big leagues. If that’s the case and there is truly no spot for him (there would be a spot, DH at the very least) then the Yanks should save him for a trade that actually helps the team in a meaningful way. This trade would be a tiny upgrade and really not worth making.
I am not convinced these rumors are true, Cashman can’t possibly be this retarded can he?
for anyone in favor of this Cliff Lee trade:
are you okay, if Jesus Montero becomes Miguel Cabrera for the next 10 years?
personally, i believe Cabrera is the best comparison i’ve seen to Montero. I expect this type of performance from him
Good lord, it’s not even valid to compare Cervelli and Montero. One guy is a plus defender with a below replacement level bat, the other is a possible MVP type bat with weak defense.
I don’t think some of you realize how good Montero might end up being.
Cliff Lee is more than a tiny upgrade….He is one of the elite pitchers in the game.
Damn I been in love with Montero for so long. I don’t blame Cashman and the front staff for wanting Lee though, I’ve already seens scouts from Mariners and tigers at the stadium several times last homestand.
I really don’t see the need for Lee with five top starters in the rotation. I guess they feel that they will be moving Hughes to the pen for the playoffs and that Javy can’t be trusted in the postseason. Either that or they are worried about A.J.’s health. But I hate losing a bat like Montero’s. I know he’s only 20 and we can’t be sure about him but can’t we ever develop any of our own talent? Montero could be our RF of the future because you know he won’t be our catcher with Cervelli and Romine in the system. I’m just frustrated because it seems as our core gets older we are no longer developing anyone to come in and take the place of guys like Posada, Jeter, A-Rod or Pettitte. If it happens so be it, but Lee could be had as a free agent after the season. We could win without him.
Why is Javy the odd man out? Couldn’t we send AJ somewhere?
# vinny-b July 9th, 2010 at 10:16 am
for anyone in favor of this Cliff Lee trade:
are you okay, if Jesus Montero becomes Miguel Cabrera for the next 10 years?
personally, i believe Cabrera is the best comparison i’ve seen to Montero. I expect this type of performance from him
Yes.
I’d rather watch our guys struggle and persevere than trade prospects for a pitcher that the Yankees do not need, even if Andy is close to retiring. Makes the sport even better for me (in my opinion).
“Clearly the Yankees are saying Austin Romine will be a better pro player than Jesus Montero who I LOVE”
I think they’re really saying one is almost certainly going to be a more than capable MLB catcher and the other is borderline at best. Nobody thinks Romine is close with the bat (though he’s pretty good), but he’ll be a big league catcher, who can produce a little offensively and be under the Yankees control for years to come.
Can someone explain to me the reason why the Yankees would at all be interested in Jason Werth? Are they really that enamored with Werth that much over Swisher? Is Werth that much better than Swish? Why would the Yanks make a deal for Werth?
“Love Cisco, but his bat is not exactly comparable to Montero’s. And Montero is only 20 years old. It would hurt a lot to lose him but you don’t get a stud lefty pitcher who is proven in the World Series without giving up something big.
Montero has an awfully high ceiling as a hitter, though. As a catcher, not so much. They must really like Sanchez, as well as Romine”
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I firmly believe the Yankees like Cervelli more then anyone on this blog thinks.
#Don July 9th, 2010 at 10:17 am
Why is Javy the odd man out? Couldn?t we send AJ somewhere?
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AJ has a massive contract. He’s not going anywhere.
I don’t know how I feel about this. Sure it’ll be nice if we get him. But we don’t really need him. Now we gotta hope Montero sucks so it doesn’t hurt.
“Can someone explain to me the reason why the Yankees would at all be interested in Jason Werth? Are they really that enamored with Werth that much over Swisher? Is Werth that much better than Swish? Why would the Yanks make a deal for Werth?”
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to lengthen the lineup. DH
I firmly believe the Yankees like Cervelli more then anyone on this blog thinks.
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They aren’t dumb, they know Cervelli is a career backup
Vinny-b,
It’s hard to watch Austin Jackson prove himself as a solid leadoff hitter and excellent center fielder. I have a feeling Montero will put up big numbers as a major leaguer but maybe not for a couple more years.
This decision is a toughie but the Yankees first priority is to lock down the rotation.
If it’s true that another team could’ve traded for Lee and extended him, the Yankees had to move, especially if Pettitte has been telling them he’s retiring after 2010.
Actually, I think Montero is the top prospect in the Yankees system. But the thought of Tampa having Lee at the top of their order is scary. Just because the Yankees trade a stud prospect, doesn’t mean they are down on him. It most likely means they weighed the advantage of having Lee.
I am sure the Yanks looked at what prospects they have a catcher and like the remaining ones as well. Romine & G Sanchez look legit.
Werth is intriguing. He fits the need of a RH bat to DH & play OF. Werth can be used to rest a LH OF bat against a good LHP. I’d believe Werth & Swish would be everyday players.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who shares the sentiment that it’s fun to watch players come up through the ranks and succeed with their original team.
Oh well, bring on Lee.
By “Nobdy thinks Romine is close with the bat”, I meant not close to Montero, rather than not close to the bigs.
Again, why get rid of Javy for Werth? I understand we could use a bat, but I’m sure we could find one without giving up Javy..
..it isn’t like we need another outfielder, though I guess we could all argue we don’t need another starting pitcher either. I love the Yankees.
Pags&Rags July 9th, 2010 at 10:17 am
But I hate losing a bat like Montero’s. I know he’s only 20 and we can’t be sure about him but can’t we ever develop any of our own talent?
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We can and do. It’s on display every night in our All Star 2B and LF (who’s a deserving All Star himself). Not to mention our All Star SP.
By “Nobdy thinks Romine is close with the bat”, I meant not close to Montero, rather than not close to the bigs.
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Not close to the bigs either. His first half may very well end up being a gigantic fluke when you consider the rest of his career.
“Good lord, it’s not even valid to compare Cervelli and Montero. One guy is a plus defender with a below replacement level bat, the other is a possible MVP type bat with weak defense.
I don’t think some of you realize how good Montero might end up being”
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look. No one is comparing Montero to Cervelli. That is foolish. Instead, we are talking of a surplus of catchers in the Yankees system. You cannot keep all of them. And yes, i believe the Yankees LOVE Cervelli as a catcher on the yankees. In addition to Romine and Gary Sanchez.
( for the record, i am not in favor of the Montero trade)
You have to admit Cash-Money has put Boston 2 steps behind.
He steals Tex, they have to trade for V-Mart.
He gets AJ, They overspend for Lackey.
Now he grabs Lee.
NO
NO
NO
Lee is not worth Montero straight up. A top 10 hitting prospect is worth about $36mil in value. If Lee posts a 3 WAR the rest of the season + 1 WAR in the postseason that is worth $20 if you value each WAR at $5mil. Then add in the 10mil in value we get from the first round picks we get if he leaves after the season (which he probably wont so I shouldnt include this value). That’s $30. Subtract the $4.5mil left on his contract this season and Lee is worth $25.5mil. HOWEVER, he is probably worth less than that to us since the marginal win value of Lee over Vazquez in minimal.
So we’re trading a top prospect for a MINIMAL upgrade of maybe 1-2 win the rest of the season. Not worth it- especially considering we’re WS favorites without him and will probably sign him in the offseason anyway.
And I said we can estimate Montero is worth $36mil through his first six arbitration years. But he is an amazing hitter. Lets say he moves to 1b and averages 2 WAR his first three seasons and 4 WAR his final three arb seasons. That would be $81mil in value using a conservative measure of $ per WAR.
I love Cashman, but don’t do it.
It’s been said many times, but I think it’s good to repeat it. Because of the age of Jeter, Arod, Posada, Mo & Pettitte, the Yanks are a now team. You win as many titles in the short term as you can. Bringing Lee to this team makes them the clear cut favorite for this yr. When they extend him, they’ll be the favorite next yr too.
Most of the Yanks best young talent in the minors are a few years away. They’ll be ready to join up with Cano, Hughes, Gardner, Joba, etc… in a few years. Jeter and Arod will still be there, but they’ll be at the end of their careers. You win as many titles as you can now while the aging group is still producing.
As I and otbers have said, I don’t think Cashman would make this trade unless there is real risk that Lee won’t be available this winter. I think that’s the only thing that would push him to trade Montero.
# Shame Spencer July 9th, 2010 at 10:24 am
Again, why get rid of Javy for Werth? I understand we could use a bat, but I’m sure we could find one without giving up Javy..
..it isn’t like we need another outfielder, though I guess we could all argue we don’t need another starting pitcher either. I love the Yankees.
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Because Werth is a premium RH bat that makes our line-up downright scary. Think of it this way…going into the season, how big of an upgrade to our roster would it have been to have Cliff Lee and Jayson Werth in place of Javy Vazquez and Nick Johnson. That’s what we’re discussing here if these two deals would go through.
Jeter
Swish
Tex
ARod
Cano
Posada
Werth
Granderson
Gardner
CC
Lee
Pettitte
AJ
Hughes
Just look at that squad for a minute.
vinny,
Gary Sanchez is 17 playing in the GCL, he’s a nonentity as far as prospects go. Romine, ok I’ll give you that one. But Cervelli? He’s a career backup, no doubt about it.
Montero is a potential top-5 hitter in the league and they are going to trade him for 2 months of Cliff Lee? Awful awful awful
“He steals Tex, they have to trade for V-Mart.
He gets AJ, They overspend for Lackey”
He didn’t steal Tex. He was going to the Yankees the whole time. Boston’s only job was to get the $$$ up.
Yankees overspent on AJ every bit as much as Boston did on Lackey.
As I and otbers have said, I don’t think Cashman would make this trade unless there is real risk that Lee won’t be available this winter. I think that’s the only thing that would push him to trade Montero.
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Trade candidates for Lee are who exactly? The Twins, Rays and ??
Do you really think the Twins or Rays are going to give Lee a 100 million extension in season? Please
This trade rules.
I would have to disagree with that. With Arod and his hip, Posada and his pluthora of injuries, and the rest of the older vets needed time at the DH spot, I don’t see Werth playing every day or supplanting Swisher. Granted Werth >>> Thames, but not worth forking over a good starting pitcher. A good infielder bench player would be more useful with Arod, Jeter, and Tex taking some time off. Anyone is better than Ramiro Pena at the plate, and Russo is left side only.
The twins might. They have a ton of money. They’re finally starting to spend it.
Is it SOOO hard to figure out that they wouldn’t be moving on Cliff Lee unless they were ready to move another pitcher (AJ/Javy) for a DH/4th OF solution?
my morning = ruined
can’t concentrate on actual work now >:[
I think we’ll know within hours.
ed_price: Official from a team with interest in Cliff Lee tells FanHouse he believes #Mariners are now negotiating exclusively with #Yankees.
Werth is only one possiblity as they can easily deal Javy for prospects.
How quickly things change. Not too long ago Javy Vazquez was “terrible” and “god awful” and “killing the Yanks” and a “NL pitcher” and so on. Now Cliff Lee’s is barely a better pitcher than Javy. What gives?
I think some of you think that Romine has recently come from nowhere. That’s not true. He’s been highly thought of by the Yanks for years. his bat isnt as good as Montero’s, but it’s very good for a catcher (and he’s better defensively). He came into this yr as the Yanks’ #2 prospect and he’s done nothing but back up that ranking. His one weakness at the plate was his lack of walks and he talked before the season about wanting to improve his plate discipline. He already has more walks this yr than he did all of last yr.
His middle name is “Phifer”
That’s an odd one.
He currently leads the AL in ERA, WHIP and K/BB ratio. He’s walked 6 batters this year. AJ could do that in one game easily.
I think on the Yankees he’s a CY Young guy.
My favorite Lee performance was in Game 1 last World Series when he was so utterly dominant yet appeared to be overdosing on Xanax at the same time.
I also like that he went out and said that he enjoys pitching in Yankee Stadium last week which is something his right-handed counterpart(Halladay) can’t really say.
AJ is not going anywhere with that contract. Fugghedaboutit.
I’m getting used to the idea of Lee, but I don’t see the need for Werth. And if he’s having issues in the Phillies clubhouse, I really don’t want him.
Lee makes perfect sense. I do not want to see him mow down Yankees in the post season as a member of the Twins, Rays or Sox.
Werth however is more along the lines of WerthLESS. That trade would make me sick.
“They aren’t dumb, they know Cervelli is a career backup”
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you’re right. The yankees aren’t dumb. In addition to all-stars they know championships are also won with roll players and intangibles. In other words, they aren’t won on paper. The Yankees projecting Cervelli as a backup is not relevent in your argument
I have mixed feelings about this.
also, how awesome is it to essentially trade melky for werth… that’s not even fair
I won’t believe it until I see it reported by someone other than Joel Sherman.
Totally against Cashman’s MO, and totally absurd.
I would stop watching games for a long time if this happened.
“ed_price: Official from a team with interest in Cliff Lee tells FanHouse he believes #Mariners are now negotiating exclusively with #Yankees.”
Duquette stated on XM Radio that if the Yankees and Mariners agreed in principle, but decided to sleep on it before announcing the deal then it’s probably going to go down.
I can’t stress enough. It’s a poor trade.
A top 10 hitting prospect holds more value than Lee would to us, especially since his marginal win value over Javy is MINIMAL.
And if Javy is traded for Werth, what do we do in the OF? All three current OF are good fielders and on pace to have above average seasons. Werth would be the best one (well, maybe Swisher has something to say about that) so would we DH Swisher or what?
The twins might. They have a ton of money. They’re finally starting to spend it.
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No.
I am really on the fence about this. Love Lee but man, Montero is a special bat, the kind that comes along so infrequently. It would be really tough to give him up.
CountryClub is right, though….The Yanks are a “win now” team with an aging core. The calculations are different when the goal is not only to get to the playoffs but to win the World Series every year. Cliff Lee will definitely help them do that NOW.
Why is this totally against Cash’s MO? Huh?
“I would stop watching games for a long time if this happened.”
Then you’re silly because Cashman’s mission statement from ownership is to win WS Championships and getting Cliff Lee this mid-season helps them in that regard.
The twins might. They have a ton of money. They’re finally starting to spend it.
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No.
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Yes. Yes they do.
Bronx Jeers -
Oh, so funny!!! True, true, true about Lee looking like he was on xanax!!!
Montero is a potential top-5 hitter in the league and they are going to trade him for 2 months of Cliff Lee? Awful awful
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Charlie:
you’re really barking up the wrong tree.
I am not in favor of a Montero-Cliff Lee trade. Am only trying to interpret what the Yankees thinking is. And how they view the perpective catchers in their system.
Buster Olney says the trade is done.
No on Werth, Yes on Lee only due to Austin Romine is the total package both D and offense.
I love montero I have been following him since Venezuela when my people were telling me how special he was at the age of 16. But Lee SABATHIA Andy and phil.. that is awesome and Yankees are a win now team.
“Disco July 9th, 2010 at 10:36 am
I can’t stress enough. It’s a poor trade.
A top 10 hitting prospect holds more value than Lee would to us, especially since his marginal win value over Javy is MINIMAL.
And if Javy is traded for Werth, what do we do in the OF? All three current OF are good fielders and on pace to have above average seasons. Werth would be the best one (well, maybe Swisher has something to say about that) so would we DH Swisher or what?”
So a player who we “think” will rake in the big leagues, but doesn’t have a position is worth more than a player who is already one of the best pitchers in baseball who is only 31?
“are you okay, if Jesus Montero becomes Miguel Cabrera for the next 10 years?
personally, i believe Cabrera is the best comparison i’ve seen to Montero. I expect this type of performance from him
Yes.”
I’m not okay with it. Its going to happen too.
This trade happens, I bid the Yankees goodbye for the year and turn my attention to Terrence Williams and the New Jersey Nets. I’m not going to watch the best offensive prospect this team has had since Mickey Mantle develop in pinstripes for some overrated bum lefty who just three years ago was sent down to the minor leagues for being so utterly terrible.
This would be a marginal upgrade in the rotation, a marginal upgrade in our chances to win the World Series. For Jesus Montero? Just wow.
For those hammering Sherman, he’s been dead on about the Yanks for the past 2 years. He’s somehow wiggled his way close to someone in the organization that knows what’s going on.
For arguments sake, let’s say the Yankees acquire Lee and put Javy Vazquez on the market to ignite a bidding war for all the Cliff Lee runner-ups in the NL.
Other than Werth, what player or prospects do you think the Yankees would want for Javier Vazquez?
The Reds, Mets, Phillies, Dodgers etc. would all be interested since Javy would be the top pitcher available.
Buster_ESPN: Executive involved in Cliff Lee talks: The Yankees-Mariners deal “is just about done.”
No don’t do it Cash! This is stupid, and I’m guaranteeing you, Montero will be a STAR hitter when he is in his prime, in the like of what MIguel Cabrera is today. I’m sure of it, after seeing him play in the minor, smack monstrous shots, and have a real sense of what is going on at the plate. His inept catching skills are also grossly exaggerated; he’s a passable defender there. PLEASE DONT DO THIS!
rodg12 – I hear what you’re saying and I completely understand it.. but my point is that I believe pitching is more important than hitting I guess. I just would rather have an “extra” starter in Javy/Phil than give one away just because we’re getting Lee. Our pen needs help, we could use the pitching over a bat IMO.
(But yes, our line-up would be SCARY with Werth, though I have to wonder how he’d do as a not-so-everyday player/hitter..)
Boston and the Mets are out of the mix for either Lee or Werth. They don’t have the farm prospects to deal. Last minute scrap heap types is all they’ll get at the trading deadline.
“since Javy would be the top pitcher available.”
Not sure he’s the best available. Oswalt is probably better. Vazquez is the most appealing though because of his contract expiring. Yankees don’t get close to what they appear to be giving for Lee in return, but could be a decent prospect involved.
anyone think Lee asked to be traded to the yanks?
Just getting to the blog this AM – WOW!
If this goes down, then Cash has a few things in mind –
1. Giving the team the best shot at all that post-season money (reprorted $72M last season; that’s a lot to sneeze at)
2. They feel Romine might be the catcher of the future, with Cisco; Montero is thus blocked, because they will have other DH candidates (Jeter, Alex, Jorge, Tex…in a rotation, perhaps) and Tex to play 1B.
3. They’re afraid Lee might sign an extension with whomever acquires him in a trade. This might be the biggest issue for Cash.
Oh, judging by the number of screen names I’ve never seen before, protesting this deal, looks like a number of Red Sox and Tampa fans are panicking. So, it must be a good deal
Where is CB to crunch the wins-over-replacement values? I miss that guy.
for some overrated bum lefty who just three years ago was sent down to the minor leagues for being so utterly terrible.
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Yes. Let’s judge Cliff Lee on what he did three+ years ago and not what he’s done since 2008.
In that case, Arod is an unclutch dbag who cares about nothing but himself. Jeter is a has-been and his career at the plate and a short is over. Pettite is done for since he can’t keep his freakin’ ERA below 4 anymore. Rivera has a 3.15 ERA and can’t pitch in tie ball games. He’s sunk. He should retire.
Thing is, this draft class is awesome in 2011.
We either sign cliff lee and we have a great rotation for following years, or simply we offer arb and get two picks.
Same with Javy, if we do keep him, through arbitration we net two additional picks.
Oh, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this is just one of the deals Cash is working on right now.
I think Cash is just mad that he couldn’t sign LeBron as DH.
not sure i see the need for this but I won’t be upset about it.
How could you trade jay Buhner!?!
vinny,
Didn’t mean to get on your case, I know you’re against the trade. I’m just really frustrated about this stupid deal and my anger is pouring out in every post. Don’t take it personally man!
Billy D,
Do you think the Yankees at least recoup their investment in Javy Vazquez and secure a package comparable to Melky, Vizcaino, Dunn?
If the Yanks think he can’t catch, then Montero has no position on the Yanks. He can’t be the DH because they need that over the next few years for Arod, Jeter and Posada. He can’t play first (and we don’t know if he even could) because Tex has that locked down for years. All reports say he’s not athletic enough to be anything but a statue in the OF.
So again, if the Yanks feel he can’t catch, you deal him now while he still has huge value.
“Same with Javy, if we do keep him, through arbitration we net two additional picks.”
Which is why I think getting rid of Javy is a mistake. Get Lee, keep Javy.
“If it’s true that another team could’ve traded for Lee and extended him, the Yankees had to move, especially if Pettitte has been telling them he’s retiring after 2010″
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Brett:
intelligent point. Another perspective team set to lock-up Cliff Lee, may well have had a part.
additonally, i expect Brian Cashman may be looking back at a trade he never made. A trade which would’ve sent Ricky Ledee (the Yankees top prospect) to the Seattle Mariners for Randy Johnson
Also, if you guys are gonna judge Cliff Lee then judge Roy Halladay.
They went through the same transformation, going to the minors fixing up their mechanics and fixing all their pitching deliver/motion.
Roy Halladay did it earlier in his career, Cliff lee did it a little later. Same concept though, both took it upon themselves to correct what was wrong, and now their both Elite Pitchers.
Uncle Ellsworth July 9th, 2010 at 10:46 am
How could you trade jay Buhner!?!
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Channeling your inner Frank Costanza, I like it.
“Vinny, I Didn’t mean to get on your case, I know you’re against the trade. I’m just really frustrated about this stupid deal and my anger is pouring out in every post. Don’t take it personally man!”
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Charlie: np. I feel you
Montero should probably prove he can hit at AAA first.
If you make a few trades, the net loss being Vazquez, Montero, a pitcher like Melancon or Mitre (or who knows) and one of the outfielders not named Gardner, and you get back Lee and Werth, I do that deal.
Losing either Granderson or Swisher for Werth (not necessarily a direct trade – just net gain vs net loss) that’s a real hard call. I’d prefer it to be a couple guys like Thames, but if I were the any other teams GM I’d want something established in return.
Of course it would be great to have a 4-headed dragon of Gardner, Granderson, Werth and Swisher as available OFs (PLUS Cliff Lee) at no expense to the starting lineup/rotation beyond losing Vazquez, but I’m being realistic.
Joe from Long Island,
Those are excellent points.
all of you freaking out over this need to wake up.
1.) We have 2 stud catching prospects, we don’t need a perma-DH for the next 8 years.
2.) Since we don’t need a perma-DH, you move the one with the highest initial value (montero) and keep the one with the long term value (romine).
3.) montero might be a star 4-5 years from now, and guess who he won’t be playing for… the mariners.
I don’t care if they think Romine is the catcher of the future.
Montero is the type of bat you make room for. Miguel Cabrera can’t really play defense at any particular position either. If you couldn’t play him at first or LF, you’d DH him.
This is a crushing blow to an organization that everyone knows has a spectacularly old core. To me a huge security blanket was knowing that Miguel Cabrera part deux was in the minors and ready to step in and mash as a twenty-something year old when the inevitable declines of Arod, Jeter, and Posada accelerated.
There’s no need for Cliff Lee. This team was the heavy favorite to win the World Series without him.
Sorry, not worth my time. Looks like I’ll be purchasing the Nets summer league package.
As someone mentioned, the next draft is stocked with talent. Mike at RAB said that it has 20-30 players that would be top 10 picks in almost any other yr. That’s why they were high on the Javy deal. they knew they were getting a good pitcher for a yr and that they would then use the 2 picks they get for him to help restock the farm. that may still be the case, or they can trade him for Werth (another rental) and still get the 2 picks when Werth walks at the end of the yr.
Or they trade Javy for high upside kids from another team’s farm. There are a lot of options here.
Bye bye Jesus
espn is throwing water on the fire saying there is no deal in place. they are so in the red sux back pockets its ridiculous almost as bad as their lebron special last night.
The only reason the Yanks are making this deal now is because of next year’s draft. It sounds like the deal is basically prospects for Lee, Vazquez for Werth. Werth goes away in the offseason and we get a pick or two, Lee signs with the Yanks. And if the Yanks had it set in their minds that signing Lee was a foregone conclusion, getting him now is basically saving a first round pick. So you are essentially gaining 2-3 picks in the 2011 draft by making this deal now.
Those picks have pretty good value because next year’s draft has a LOOOOT of talent in it.
I still hate the deal because you aren’t getting a player of Montero’s caliber back in the draft but it makes a little more sense if you think of it that way.
1.) We have 2 stud catching prospects, we don’t need a perma-DH for the next 8 years.
2.) Since we don’t need a perma-DH, you move the one with the highest initial value (montero) and keep the one with the long term value (romine).
3.) montero might be a star 4-5 years from now, and guess who he won’t be playing for… the mariners.
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You have won the game. Thank you.
The purpose of this or any other board is to express our opinions, but have any of us really seen enough of Montero to project his performance in the years ahead? I know I haven’t, but the Yankees have Butch Winegar managing Montero who is clearly qualified to give a valid opinion. I suspect the Yankees like his bat but see they have nowhere to play him.
I will now be disappointed if this does not happen, and it still may well not. It would be a good move from Seattle’s perspective to leak the Yankees interest to try to get others to up the ante.
Meanwhile, I will keep refreshing the various rumor sources.
Don’t know if anyone has posted this yet but:
https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN
To those who don’t want to click the link: “Executive involved in Cliff Lee talks: The Yankees-Mariners deal ‘is just about done.’”
G-C, I think if his bat was “the type of bat you make room for” they would have taken the steps to do so, no? He hasn’t exactly been lighting it up in AAA, and obviously that isn’t an indication of what type of MLB player he might evolve into but I trust the Yankees talent evaluators if they believe Romine/Sanchez are the future behind the plate.
Montero should probably prove he can hit at AAA first.
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He’s been hitting for the last month
G-C – if you are just gonna be cranky about it, and threaten to stop watching the Yankees over this… go.
Totally forgot we’d get the picks with Werth anyway.. my bad!
I still hang onto Javy though, to me starting pitching is like Tupperware, you can never have enough.
The Yankees getting Cliff Lee would eliminate a lot of angst about having to face him this weekend…….
I will even forgive him for the abundence of white crap on his cap during the World Series
WOW! Montero is a great prospect! He can hit & hit for power! He can catch too as he has made great strides. He is only 20 yrs old playing in AAA. But, Cliff Lee is awesome too. If the trade happens Cliff Lee will be signed to an extension.
In order to get a great player in a trade, you have to give up a great player.
Fortunately the Yanks have some other viable options in G Sanchez & Romine. Neither one is Montero now. (Sanchez may be as he is only 17.)
To anyone with the gall to support this deal, don’t be crying in three years when Jesus Montero is raking with the best of them in the American League.
This is a disaster.
And to think I thought the Yankees had moved on from the Steinbrenner days.
This leak didn’t come from Cashmans side. I’ll bet it’s from the Mariners side, Cashman is stealth.
Phill to the pen as long relief won’t go over his innings limit and can help the rest of the season with no skipped starts.
Aceves gets to have surgery and be ready for next year
Starting rotation still strong, pen strong again, with Mo having a great setup guy so he can rest.
There are no sure things. I think as a GM you go with the surest thing, or the least unsure thing, whichever way you want to put it. Lee is a sure thing. Montero is still a prospect.
Trading Montero for half a regular season and a post-season of Cliff Lee makes no sense either on a WAR or value basis, Montero being certain over six cost-controlled years, either at C, DH, or 1B (you have to include 1B because he could be traded to a team that will play him there), to exceed the WAR and value Lee will bring for the remainder of 2010, especially since Lee won’t be replacing a replacement level pitcher but rather an exceedingly good pitcher, be it Hughes or Vazquez.
So if the deal goes down it is a real “I want it now” type deal, along the lines of Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz kind of deal.
That kind of deal makes some sense for a team that seldom makes it to the post-season or seldom has success there.
I don’t see why the Yanks need to do that kind of deal, especially as the Yanks would be the favorite to win the WS without Lee anyway.
I remember going to see Montero when he was at Single A Tampa, He was DH’ing and mashing deep drives every time up, but Romine stole the show with his bat & glove. They are both very talented. Montero is an elite prospect & projected to be the better MLB hitter.
Montero has more trade value and that is the price it will take to land an elite pitcher.
I’d hate to see him go, but comfortable having Romine move up in the pecking order.
Cervelli has been a consistent overachiever. His does a great job in his role is backup on this team, but I won’t underestimate him again either. We have been a little spoiled watching Posada over the years. If we step back & take another look, we’ll see that Cervelli is better than a lot of MLB starting catchers.
Those of you saying “we don’t know how good Montero is” shut the hell up. I do know how good he is and scouts all around the league know how good he is. He’s a stud, plain and simple. There’s a reason why he was a top 10 prospect at the start of the start of the year. With Strasburg, Heyward, Posey, Stanton, Smoak and Santana all up in the majors now, Montero is a top 5 prospect.
This is a guy with no position and he’s still a top 5 prospect. Why? Because he projects to be one of the best hitters in the game. I’m talking .300+, 35 HR+ potential. No joke. He doens’t strike out, he hits for power, he hits for average.
You DO NOT under any goddamn circumstances trade that kind of bat for a 2 month rental. If this move goes through it will have been WORSE than Ruben Amaro trading Lee in the first place. What a joke
http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....ent-959504
KenDavidoff Hearing there’s a “snag” in the #Yankees-#Mariners talks for Lee, but could just be hiccup. #Yankees are still hopeful they can finish it.
Yeah one month is a great way to evaluate him as a whole. By the way everyone on here raves about him you’d think he’d be hitting .400 with 20 HRS by this point. He’s still a ways away from ’stardom’. He’s not going to be Heyward and come up at 20 years old and be a formidable force in this bigs.
Yankees are a win-now team. If they can get Cliff freakin’ Lee for a ‘future star’, they will do it. Of course it would be nice to see Montero come up and hit 40 HRs in the bigs, but that’s a big ‘if’ and not worth waiting around to see if it will happen.
KenDavidoff: Hearing there's a “snag” in the #Yankees-#Mariners talks for Lee, but could just be hiccup. #Yankees are still hopeful they can finish it.
Proposed trade: Montero, Adams, third player for Lee
Another proposed trade: GB7 andSJ44 for tommiesmithjohncarlos and ugly betty at RAB lol…stupid deal cash…
If Yanks offered Javy arbitration he probably takes it. So the draft picks wouldn’t be there and a high contract would be.
Yeah he doesn’t strike out, he just has 54 SO and only 32 BBs thus far. That’s never striking out for you.
I like this.. Montero could be a stud but has not proven it. Yankees are built to win now not in the future!!… Go get Lee, we would have the sickest rotation. I second to keep Vasquez so we can pull Hughes into the bullpen as soon as his 175 innings are reached and have a nice bridge to Mo!
People who think Lee wont sign an extension are high. Cash would never do this deal without knowing we will have Lee for awhile and not just for a rental. Cmon people have faith
I am falling into the trap and will be disappointed now.
I don’t agree that Javy accepts arbitration. He’ll take the multi-year deal and will be in demand.
KenDavidoff: There will be no negotiating window for long-term deal with Lee if #Yankees get him. NYY confident they can re-sign him eventually.
RayVT-
I don’t see why Vazquez would accept arbitration.
“The only reason the Yanks are making this deal now is because of next year’s draft. It sounds like the deal is basically prospects for Lee, Vazquez for Werth. Werth goes away in the offseason and we get a pick or two, Lee signs with the Yanks. And if the Yanks had it set in their minds that signing Lee was a foregone conclusion, getting him now is basically saving a first round pick. So you are essentially gaining 2-3 picks in the 2011 draft by making this deal now.
Those picks have pretty good value because next year’s draft has a LOOOOT of talent in it.
I still hate the deal because you aren’t getting a player of Montero’s caliber back in the draft but it makes a little more sense if you think of it that way”
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excellent perspective.
in addition to your points, Brian Cashman may not be too excited about dealing with the logistics of Montero as a young DH for the next 5 years. With the big pre-existing contracts of Arod, Tex, and Jeter (another contract on the way unfortunately), Cashman may already have the DH positioned ear-marked. If the Yankees privately don’t see Montero as a catcher, maybe he is viewed as a trade commodity.
“G-C ? if you are just gonna be cranky about it, and threaten to stop watching the Yankees over this? go.”
I’m consistently among the most positive fans on here.
Seldom does a negative word about this team come out of my mouth.
I will not watch this team for the rest of the year if they finalize this deal. Why they see the need to shake up a roster that is already this good is absolutely beyond my comprehension.
3. They’re afraid Lee might sign an extension with whomever acquires him in a trade. This might be the biggest issue for Cash.
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This is exactly what I’ve believed has kept them in the mix even though they don’t even have a need for Lee.
The Mariners have every reason to give any prospective trade partner that negotiating window. It only works to strengthen their end of the deal.
Obviously giving up Montero is not ideal but it’s not like Lee is a reclamation project.
# G-C July 9th, 2010 at 11:03 am
“G-C ? if you are just gonna be cranky about it, and threaten to stop watching the Yankees over this? go.”
I’m consistently among the most positive fans on here.
Seldom does a negative word about this team come out of my mouth.
I will not watch this team for the rest of the year if they finalize this deal. Why they see the need to shake up a roster that is already this good is absolutely beyond my comprehension.
Who cares?
Olney update: http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=5366254
Yeah he doesn’t strike out, he just has 54 SO and only 32 BBs thus far. That’s never striking out for you.
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He had a bad few months to start the year. Last year he struck out 47 times for the whole season.
this is the best news i’ve heard all day. trading unertainty for an ace. having a two headed monster at the top of our rotation. for all those saying our pitching is great and lee is overkill, think about the short series. we are getting lee for the playoffs, having 2 aces in a 5 then 7 game series is HUGE. 2 pitcehers can carry a team to a WS, now we’ll have CC-Lee-Andy, and aj/hughes if necessary, BEAST mode. this move is stricly to bolster our playoff rotation.
KenDavidoff There will be no negotiating window for long-term deal with Lee if #Yankees get him. NYY confident they can re-sign him eventually.
CC got assurances last week at dinner?
“KenDavidoff: Hearing there’s a “snag” in the #Yankees-#Mariners talks for Lee, but could just be HICCUP. #Yankees are still hopeful they can finish it”
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hopefully it’s a choke
This is a disgusting display of excess even as a die-hard Yankee fan… We have the best record in the Major League, we have arguably the best rotation in the American League and we are 23 games over .500 at the halfway point of the season. We don’t need him! And you’re going to give up Jesus Montero for what basically amounts to a rental when you can sign Lee next off season anyway?! Com’on… it’s overkill! Absolutely ridiculous… I will not hold my head up as high if we win the WS this year with Lee.
g-c – thats why everyone is trying to rationalize it for you. you seem to have taken the head in the sand approach. good luck to you.
Interesting this entry isn’t from Chad. After the Phils got Lee last year Chad blogged in Scranton that Lee “sucked” and he wasn’t impressed with the Phillies’ deal. Now that Lee’s off to NY I’m sure Chad changed his opinion.
And Montero is overrated too
Anybody get the feeling Lee gives up 6 walks in his 1st start with us.
Yankees are winning. They need Lee? Who’s out of the rotation if they get Lee? Hughes back to the pen? I can see why people hate the Yankees when things like this happen. You don’t need a star at ever position to win. Ask the Rays.
KenDavidoff: Also, I hear there's nothing hot on Vazquez. #Yankees could take until 7/31 to decide what to do on him. Hughes to bullpen is option.
pat -
And perhaps gave assurances in return – that the Yankees, even with having to deal with Jeter and Posada, have the money and will make the years commitment Lee probably wants.
its important to get Lee, one wonders how many more years Andy will want to pitch.
Okay, excuse me while I go off.
Montero is not an “unproven commodity.” You people are so hardheaded. Just because a player is a prospect does not automatically deem him an “unproven commodity.”
To everyone with that perspective, David Price and Jason Heyward would have been “unproven commodities” before they hit the big leagues too. You probably would have traded them for Cliff Lee and you’d probably feel really crappy about it.
Do you realize what it takes for a 20 year old to put up a .750 OPS in AAA? Even if Montero hasn’t played to his potential this year, he’s still having an OUTSTANDING season relative to his age and experience.
This is pathetic.
Ooops – I meant Jeter and Mariano, of course.
I don’t think the Yankees would consider this deal unless there felt there was a real danger of them not being able to sign Lee in the off season.
It may also be that Lee has indicated in one way or another that he wants to be a Yankee and will work out an extension with them.
Romine is a very good catching prospect.
Adams is expendable as is Pena.
Lee is insurance for Pettitte retiring going forward.
Hughes to the pen later in the season makes sense as does the possibility of trading Vasquez.
This is a very dynamic and interesting trade possibility, and has been said the Yankees know a lot more about their plans than we do.
If nothing else it is fun to speculate and maybe even more fun to see how it all goes down.
KenDavidoff Hearing there’s a “snag” in the #Yankees-#Mariners talks for Lee, but could just be hiccup. #Yankees are still hopeful they can finish it.
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Interesting but I would think that the Yanks are the 1 organization that could probably live without the extension. We’ll see.
3 months of Cliff Lee is in no way worth 7 years of Montero. None. Since when does Cashman trade a top 5 prospect in all of baseball for a rental? Doesn’t pass the sniff test IMO. I see no reason to pay twice when the starting pitching is good to very good as it is.
If Jesus ends up being the elite hitting MLBer that everyone thinks he will be, I’m sure the Yankees will resign him when he hits free agency and we no longer have 4 or 5 DH candidates
Seriously, we give him to the Mariners for a few years, so what?! It isn’t like they keep their greatest players around or anything..
Yeah, in A+ and AA. His season consisted of 92 games. No one is saying he won’t be good, but everyone acts like he’ll be Miggy by NEXT YEAR. Which he won’t. He’s a ways off.
charlie kelly – he struck out 47 times in 380 plate appearances last season between A and AA, which is actually BETTER than the pace he’s on now in AAA (54 k’s in 310 PA’s).
Lee won’t discuss extension with the Yanks why would he do it with anyone else??? He will be a free agent at the end of the year and the Yanks can easily sign him then.
asdfkl;fj;axdklj
3 months of Cliff Lee is in no way worth 7 years of Montero. None. Since when does Cashman trade a top 5 prospect in all of baseball for a rental? Doesn’t pass the sniff test IMO. I see no reason to pay twice when the starting pitching is good to very good as it is.
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Jesus Christ it’s not a rental. They would not trade of Lee unless they knew they could sign him at the end of the year. That’s the plan.
SamBorden: That ship sailed awhile ago, no? RT @AndrewMarchand: Besides the gluttony of it, I can't see how this is not a great deal for the #Yankees.
It’s ridiculous to put Montero as a sure thing for Cabrera type numbers.
The dude obviously has some attitude problems and I think scouts and the Yanks have soured just a bit on him.
Lets do this now. You want a stud? Cliff Lee is the definition of a stud.
“I don’t think the Yankees would consider this deal unless there felt there was a real danger of them not being able to sign Lee in the off season”
totally agree. I think thats the main thing pushing this deal.
G-C – on no planet, especially this one, is a .750 OPS in AAA impressive.
The way I see it we just signed, sealed and delivered another Championship to the Bronx!! Wonderful trade by Cashman. I have a sneaky feeling Montero is going to be a bust anyway. Next move, deal Javy to the Phillies for Werth ! Who cares if the rest of the league says we are piling on ? If a guy like Lee is available you get him!
Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz.
I’m sure back in 1987 most Detroit fans were saying yeah, Smoltz is a good prospect, but who knows how good he’ll ever be and he’s a risk and Doyle Alexander will help us win now.
And Detroit did win the World Series that year.
So the question you have to ask yourself is, are the Yankees the Tigers?
What will be funny now is if this deal goes down and Lee has a bad outing, tons of people on this board will start going “OMG SHOULD HAVE KEPT MONTERO LEE CAN’T HANDLE NY RAH RAH RAH RAH HATE HATE HATE HATE”
The Yankees already were viewed as the favorites to land Lee in free agency, and while they are considering moving Montero and others now, they will not have to surrender their first-round pick in order to sign the left-hander. – Olney
Good point. Especially with next years draft being stocked. Get picks for Vazquez/Werth, too. Keep on rebuilding the farm.
Downplay Montero all you want. It doesn’t change the facts. If this trade happens it’s HORRIBLE for the Yankees. Worse than any move in recent memory.
The way I see it is even if Montero proves to be a major league stud we can always just sign him as a free agent. The object is to field the best roster on the field. We improved our club today. End of story.
so montero is a proven MLB commodity? news to me. he’s more than likely not going to ramain a catcher, first base is blocked, do we really want a true DH now? CC and Lee and dominate this and the next couple of postseasons, no brainer.
The organization may believe that Romine is more likely to be able to help the team at C in 2011, since it’s clear they need help at the position with Jorge’s health issues and Cervelli not ideal for a starting role. Montero is an amazing hitting prospect, but regardless of the fact that he and the team have been focusing on getting him to stick as a C by working him hard behind the plate, perhaps they made the decision that it isn’t going to work long-term. That combined with the logjam at other spots he could be moved to, could make him more valuable to other teams than to the Yankees over the next number of years. The loss of his bat is the worst part, obviously, but if they legitimately don’t see a place for him on the roster in the near future, Lee is the type of player he makes sense trading Jesus for.
Similarly I don’t believe for a second that this is just a 3-month rental and should be evaluated as a move only for 2010, with only limited benefits for 2010 taken into consideration. Lee may not get an extension right away but I don’t see another team outbidding the Yankees for his services. Similarly if this allows them to get a right-handed corner OF/DH by moving Vazquez, then it’s a good move to me.
Lee is one of the best pitchers in baseball so let’s stop with the Doyle Alexander analogy.
G-C I agree with you. The Yankees don’t need Lee to win. This will be the most disgusting display of Yankee greed and opulence I’ve seen yet. The Red Sox sit with 12 injuries. The Rays have come back to earth. The Yankees are in first place and they have to go out and get a superstar? This will definitely hurt Hughes’s development. I’m thinking Cashman has mad cow disease or something.
“Do you think the Yankees at least recoup their investment in Javy Vazquez and secure a package comparable to Melky, Vizcaino, Dunn?”
No. Don’t see them getting a Vizcaino-level prospect for three months worth of Vazquez.(remember the Yankees traded that package for an entire season of Vazquez).
No way Cashman makes this trade unless they have 100% certainty that Cliff Lee will be a Yankee next season. Its not a rental….its just getting him a few months earlier to help them this season.
Montero is already a HOFer. Shocked.
everyone seems quick to ignore how much we don’t want lee to end up playing for a different contender this season. also, once he puts on those pinstripes, you think he’s going to sign somewhere else? lol… so shortsighted are we…
Considering CC can start on short rest and win 2 games in a short or long series, adding Cliff Lee makes it 3 wins.
Imagine if when they were Diamondbacks, Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling enjoyed the run support this offense supplies.
The playoff rotation alone greatly increases the Yankees chances of stringing together 4 or 5 World Series Championships.
The dude obviously has some attitude problems and I think scouts and the Yanks have soured just a bit on him.
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NO he doesn’t and NO they haven’t! Stop talking if you have no idea what you’re talking about. That goes for all of you downplaying Montero’s ability and value.
Also,
This is in no way a rental. If the trigger gets pulled here, you have to imagine this gives the Yanks a leg up. If he goes deep into the post-season/wins a WS with the Yanks you’re telling me he doesn’t re-up? We are trading a prospect for that insurance.
Also…I’m not quite sure why everyone is hating on Werth. The guy is pretty damn good. #1 outfielder on the back to back NL pennant winners. I’d gladly take him on my team…even though I’m not quite sure where he fits in. I wonder if Nick Johnson’s setbacks make them more likely to pull the trigger on this. I’d part with Javy.
Ya know…something about this years team…depsite all thee succeess thus far…it just seam to be missing something. Some “x” factor that I’ve felt with past teams, especially last year. Give me Werth and Lee and maye we turn that corner.
whatever happened to bobcat?
“G-C ? on no planet, especially this one, is a .750 OPS in AAA impressive.”
This is why you have no concept of what makes prospects good.
Jesus Montero is playing with guys who on average are at least five or six years older than him. The mere fact that he’s playing in AAA right now is truly remarkable, let alone being the BEST offensive catcher down there (yoo hoo, he made the all star team).
But no, you can all run back to your “there’s no such thing as a good prospect” security blankets and embrace this bastard while the Yankees simultaneously crap on Vazquez for the third time in his tenure here, even though he’s done nothing but work hard and be probably the nicest guy I’ve seen get treated like a piece of garbage in a long time.
Ken_Rosenthal: Source: Vazquez for Werth a “50-to-1″ shot. Werth to #Rays also a longshot. #Phillies #Yankees #MLB
Downplay Montero all you want. It doesn’t change the facts. If this trade happens it’s HORRIBLE for the Yankees. Worse than any move in recent memory.
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Yeah. It doesn’t change the fact that it helps the Yankees. Go hug some more prospects. They’ll help to dry your tears.
“I can see why people hate the Yankees when things like this happen.”
I understand people who have a problem with the Yankees signing multiple $20 M dollar free agents because everyone might not be able to do that but……..acquiring Lee for the balance of the season costs $4M and the right pieces from the minors.
Not cost prohibitive in dollars for anyone who thinks they have a chance of winning this year because of the revenue it would return.
This trade is about the pieces in the farm system this time and the fact that the Yankees have them is going to drive some people crazy.
Just reported that Lee won’t negotiate during the season.
Why would we do this if we can’t lock him up!?
This one of those deals where I’d be happy whichever way it falls.
KenDavidoff: #Mariners have told many interested teams that they're out of the Lee sweepstakes. All signs point to #Yankees completing this deal.
Cliff Lee in 2010 does not equal Doyle Alexander in 1987. Bad anallogy. Alexander was just about done with his career. Lee has a ways to go.
***Win today*** ***Win today*** ***Win today*** ***Win today*** ***Win today*** ***Win today*** ***Win today*** ***Win today*** ***Win today*** ***Win today***
That’s what this is all about…. And I’m all in for in. This is what I love about the Yanks. They care about today, we’ll worry about the future when we get to it.
If Montero wasn’t part of the deal would anybody still be complaining? I would. I don’t think we need Lee to win. I think it’s disgusting the Yankees are doing it. Does anybody value a little competition or do you want the trophy handed to us?
The dude obviously has some attitude problems and I think scouts and the Yanks have soured just a bit on him.
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He was benched earlier this year for dogging it. Just saying.
Also, is stock has dropped a bit from what I’ve seen around. I don’t see you proving anything more than your opinion here buddy.
I actually love Montero’s ability! He is only 20 yrs old and playing at an all-star level in AAA. Yeah he has had a couple of bumps this year in AAA, but he is a top prospect & only 20!!!!
I saw Montero rip pitch after pitch in batting practice last year at Tampa ST. I didn’t know who he was at the time but he was a pleasure to watch!
How many folks here would say pass on this trade now but would rip Cash if Lee went to CWS, RSox, Twins or Rays? You can’t have it both ways! (BTW, the Rays owner said he would be willing to take on a contract to help them win it all even if it was a part year rental!) The Twinkies have always had plenty of money, but never spent it! Now that the old man passed away, the kids are more open to spending money to win.
No extension window??? I don’t like this. You know everyone will jack up the price this winter to screw with the Yanks.
Blake-
I think we are on the same wavelength.
Color me as one with the “gall” to want this trade to occur. For some reason, I don’t rely upon promises of board members as to Montero’s future performance. I will not worry about Montero when(and if) Lee is starting in gmae one or two of a playoff series. While Vazquez is pitching better of late, to say Lee is only a marginal improvement is silly. The Yankees play to win the Series. Lee would make that much more likely than Vazquez.
If Lee is traded elsewhere and signs, Vazquez does not come back and Pettitter retires, the staff is in trouble with only the likes of Lilly in the free agent market.
sigh — do we really need a star at every position ? May I ask what fun it is going to be watching regular season games. Call me old fashioned but I like building through the farm. The ARods, CC’s, Tex’s etc dont bring me as much statisfaction as a Jeter, Petite or Cano. The other thing that irks me is this is going to be called Yankee glutony and accusations of buying a championship are going to take place. This move was excessive, even coming from a Yankee fan.
“Lee is one of the best pitchers in baseball so let’s stop with the Doyle Alexander analogy.”
The difference between Cliff Lee and either Phil Hughes or Javy Vazquez is much less than the difference was between Doyle Alexander and Dan Petry/Jeff Robinson back in 1987.
And this is for a 3 month rental.
I seem to recall that Matt Wieters was the greatest prospect, can’t miss, SI cover boy….Right now, he’s hitting .243, with an OPS+ of 81.
You make the deal for the proven performer.
joelsherman1: Will put up link momentarily with new news on #Lee, including that #Yankees have not asked for negotiating window and why
G-C – he’s the best catching prospect down there because posey and santana have been called up already… young players perform well in AAA ALL the time, stop making it out like he’s some miracle worker for a half a season of a .750 OPS. we DO NOT NEED 2 STUD CATCHERS IN THE MINORS.
Good or bad, we can’t say one way or the other what type of MLBer he will be. He is an elite prospect, yes, but that doesn’t always translate into an elite MLB player.
Anyone saying he’ll be a bust is just as ignorant and anyone saying we’re crippling our farm system for decades to come by making this move.
It comes down to this: do you trust the talent evaluators employed by the Yankees. I do, so if they pull the trigger on this, I’ll assume they know that Romine is a better option for our future.
save montero, who gets bounces from staff
Downplay Montero all you want. It doesn?t change the facts. If this trade happens it?s HORRIBLE for the Yankees. Worse than any move in recent memory.
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See how can you say that…what if Lee goes on to win multiple cy youngs and Montero is a bust for injuries or anything?
Does that really seem entirely not probable? How would it be the worst then? LAst i checked humans can’t predict the future yet.
I wouldn’t think its a big deal if Lee went to another contender.
Forgive me for not being frightened by a softtossing lefty who was in A ball three years ago.
If this trade happens I will have mixed emotions. It helps them this season for sure but I was certainly looking forward to seeing Montero in pinstripes on day. Its a testament to Romine, Sanchez, and Cervelli though and how they feel about them if it happens.
Also if it happens, are the Yankees going to send 3 straight lefties out in the playoffs CC, Lee, Pettite?
Mike in Harrisburg July 9th, 2010 at 11:17 am
This one of those deals where I?d be happy whichever way it falls.
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Same here
“Just reported that Lee won’t negotiate during the season.
Why would we do this if we can’t lock him up!?”
Because they’re trying to win the 2010 WS championship and they’re confident that they’ll sign him to another contract this winter.
Isn’t there also the possibility that the Yanks put Hughes back in the pen and keep Javy?
NJ_StevePoliti: Too soon! RT @BrianCoz: Man, imagine Sabathia and Lee in the same rotation. Oh, sorry Cleveland … #Yankees
Joe from Long Island -
So was Buster Posey and look at his recent stats since being given the starting job in SF. But to your point, yes, there are no sure things.
# Joe from Long Island July 9th, 2010 at 11:19 am
I seem to recall that Matt Wieters was the greatest prospect, can’t miss, SI cover boy….Right now, he’s hitting .243, with an OPS+ of 81.
You make the deal for the proven performer.
Everyone should read that seven or eight times.
“Why would we do this if we can’t lock him up!?”
Because they’re trying to win the 2010 WS championship and they’re confident that they’ll sign him to another contract this winter.”
Then you admit this is a rental.
EXCLUSIVE: Yankees announce a 2 hour special at 9 PM: “The Trade”. Proceeds are going to Lebron’s mom’s bank account.
Janice you just said what I’m thinking. Every word of it. If this happens I’m embarassed as a Yankee fan.
Joe,
Thats a very good point about Wieters and Wieters is much more highly regarded as a catcher than Montero is….doesn’t mean Montero or Wieters won’t turn out to be a great players but does speak to the uncertainty of prospects.
Why are people saying montero can’t hit up here now? Like there haven’t been 20 year olds hitting in the majors.
it’s not that lee won’t negotiate in season – it’s that the mariners have not allowed for a negotiating window.
“Ken Davidoff of Newsday hears that the talks have hit a ’snag’ and notes that the Yankees remain hopeful that they can finish the deal (via Twitter). Davidoff and ESPN.com’s Buster Olney both note (via Twitter) that the Yankees will not get a negotiating window for a contract extension.”
Yankees aren’t negotiating in season with Jeter, Mo and Girardi.
They might not want to negotiate with Lee and open that dialog in the media.
I just chuckle because this is so much like the discussion that surfaced when the Yankees were about to trade Hughes for Santana in 2007.
I was being lambasted on a different message board for not wanting to acquire the “proven commodity.” Three years later, aside from the fact that we wouldn’t have acquired Sabathia, we’re watching Johan on an accelerated, painful decline and Hughes in the All Star Game.
I’m not okay with it. Its going to happen too.
This trade happens, I bid the Yankees goodbye for the year and turn my attention to Terrence Williams and the New Jersey Nets. I’m not going to watch the best offensive prospect this team has had since Mickey Mantle develop in pinstripes for some overrated bum lefty who just three years ago was sent down to the minor leagues for being so utterly terrible.
This would be a marginal upgrade in the rotation, a marginal upgrade in our chances to win the World Series. For Jesus Montero? Just wow.
lllllllllllllll
Which team is Lee pitching for tonight?
Which team do I root for again?
Circus Clown Yankees. Let’s leave nothing to chance. Like this guarantees anything.
man, cashman doesn’t relax & collect his paycheck.
“The difference between Cliff Lee and either Phil Hughes or Javy Vazquez is much less than the difference was between Doyle Alexander and Dan Petry/Jeff Robinson back in 1987.”
Are you kidding me? I like Hughes as much as any Yankee fan, but he’s not in Cliff Lee’s class nor is Javy.
I can’t wait until December when Cliff Lee has his “The Decision” special.
igotid88 – uh, the yankees say he can’t hit here now. i trust them more than internet superstars.
See how can you say that…what if Lee goes on to win multiple cy youngs and Montero is a bust for injuries or anything?
Does that really seem entirely not probable? How would it be the worst then? LAst i checked humans can’t predict the future yet.
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Doesn’t matter what they do in the future.
Montero’s value right now is that of a top 5 prospect. That value is far more than 2 months of a great pitcher.
How is it possible that so many people here want this deal to happen? Can you all possibly be this retarded? Holy crap…
how could anyone say this is gluttonous? you play to win, to win you field the best team possible. Lee is the prize of the trade deadline, go get him if u can
Oh c’mon guys, get over the whole “gluttony of the Yankees/evil empire” BS. You’re Yankees fans, right? You want to win all the time, right?? You do that by putting the best players on the field, right???! Good lord, its bad enough hearing that nonsense from fans of other teams but hearing it from your own is ridiculous. We own baseball. If you haven’t realized that by now, what team have you been watching??
G-C – santana had elbow probolems and was already trending downwards in his career. this is nothing like the hughes – santana situation, but nice try.
# Icebird753 July 9th, 2010 at 11:22 am
EXCLUSIVE: Yankees announce a 2 hour special at 9 PM: “The Trade”. Proceeds are going to Lebron’s mom’s bank account.
Montero lovers crying in a bar. Cliff Lee lovers jumping up and down.
For all those who anguish over the Yankees overdoing it or ruining the competition, please go pull for the Royals and feel good about yourself. I guess the Yankees shouldn’t have traded for Maris either since it was their financial ability that allowed that to happen. Let’s give back AROD and Tex too. It’s just not fair.
whatever happened to bobcat?
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visiting the zoo, today
Jeter
Swisher
Tex
Arod
Cano
Werth
Posada
Granderson
Gardner
CC
Lee
Pettitte
Burnett
Hughes
Lee for Montero would be the worst deal Cashman has made to this point. Trading for Lee is a rental because he is a free agent at year’s end. They trade 7 years of a top 5 prospect in all of baseball who… Funny enough… Is still catching and getting better at it all the time for 3 months of a pitcher who won’t even be your number 1. But wait! You do get the added bonus of signing him to a mega dollar contract which you otherwise couldn… Oh wait you can just sign him in the winter and have your 21 power hitter ready for your 2011 team.
This isn’t a low A ball pitcher, it’s a guy who could be on this roster right now. Too many DH’s? Because Nick Johnson and Marcus Thames should block Jesus…
You’ve Got to Be Kidding —- good bye . . Go root for your nets
a marginal upgrade > LOL LOL …
To me a 3 month rental is a term reserved for when a team that has no clear hope of retaining an upcoming free agent acquires them. Like the Brewers getting Sabathia in 2008. The Yankees acquiring Lee, even without the much-desired “negotiation window”, does not mean they’re acquiring him expecting or worrying about not being able to re-sign him after the season. Who will be outbidding them for him? Who will offer him a better chance to both win and make a fortune?
I don’t think anybody is downplaying Montero….losing him will hurt a lot. Which is why I think Cashman must have reason to believe Lee may not be around this winter….therefore giving him a sense of urgency to make this deal.
And no comparisons with this to Santana. We passed on Santana because our organization had a long term plan to sign CC. Next year (or the year after), as far as I know, a CC-type pitcher is not available in the FA market. These scenarios are very different.
miggy started raking when he was like 22 years old so if he is the next miggy he will be raking in the next year or two.
this is an interesting deal. Lee is an ACE and would surely improve our rotation but then what to do with Javy he has been pitching his ass off i would be sad to see him go. Hughes to the pen makes sense but i dont like the idea of moving around a starter too much.
The negotiating window is no big deal. Yankees will have a 3 months of exclusive negotiating rights once he’s a Yankee. They’ll get it done.
“G-C ? santana had elbow probolems and was already trending downwards in his career. this is nothing like the hughes ? santana situation, but nice try.”
And you were definitely one who supported the deal wholeheartedly. Because you don’t believe there’s a such thing as “prospects” even though the core of this team is made up of them and the future face of the franchise is one of them, one of them who wasn’t regarded about one thirtieth as well as Montero is.
I don’t see how any Yankee fan could consciously root for Cliff Lee and feel good about it.
ya, shipping javy out after half a season, twice, if both sad and funny.
“I don’t see how any Yankee fan could consciously root for Cliff Lee and feel good about it.”
Is he winning??
“Are you kidding me? I like Hughes as much as any Yankee fan, but he’s not in Cliff Lee’s class nor is Javy.”
OK, then, I’ll use baby talk.
The point is not how good Cliff Lee is in the abstract, the point is how much better he makes our starting rotation than it was before we got him.
Therefore, how good Hughes and Vazquez are is very relevant to the discussion, since one of them will no longer be in the rotation. And I repeat, the difference between Lee and Hughes/Vazquez is less than the difference between Doyle Alexander and Dan Petry/Jeff Robinson back in 1987.
This deal, if it happens, is an “I want it now” deal. Fans always like those deals when they happen, then they complain about them down the road.
The Yanks don’t need those deals. I’m with G-C, except I will continue to watch and root for the Yanks.
Any team with a chance to win and says they can’t afford $4M for Lee for the balance of this season (not talking about 2011 and forward) is either lying or should be contracted.
Yankees made $72M on postseason ticket sales in 2009. Investing $4 M for a possible $72 M return in 5 months is a tough investment to pass on.
G-C – you couldn’t be more wrong, but keep assuming you know what i’m thinking.
you are only making yourself look stupid.
Go post on a royals board, you aren’t proving any points here and you are just crying in your milk.
Ha, my favorite thing that people do when they counter the supposed “prospect huggers” is when they pick out one guy (Wieters) who was hyped and hasn’t succeeded when most guys who were regarded like Montero have done so.
Its really convenient and pretty convincing- KUDOS to you on that one!
Shame I remember when the Yankees won games with some very good players but didn’t have a star at every position. Maybe I’m a minority here but I still like to think there’s competition in baseball. When the Yankees lost in 2001 everything turned around. Steinbrenner went nuts and that’s when he started buying FAs like they were going out of style. Look where that got us. I hope the Red Sox get him. They need him more than we do. Then we might have some real compeitition and not just a lazy walk to the world series. If Lee is on the team I’ll just start concentrating on the Knicks earlier then usual.
“miggy started raking when he was like 22 years old so if he is the next miggy he will be raking in the next year or two”
No he wasn’t. He was 20. He had 45 big league homers and 175 RBI before turning 22. In fact, he was jacking homeruns in the postseason as a 20 year old.
Irreverent Discourse
When did they say he can’t hit up here? Cervelli wasn’t exactly tearing it up in the minors and has done pretty well up here.
Blake-
“I don’t think anybody is downplaying Montero….losing him will hurt a lot. Which is why I think Cashman must have reason to believe Lee may not be around this winter….therefore giving him a sense of urgency to make this deal.”
This almost has to be true.
And as far as the “negotiating window”. Even w/o one it has to be a wink-wink deal with Lee. The Yanks would never offer these prospects w/o virtual certainty of retaining Lee.
Gonna know soon in all likelihood.
If Seattle really wants a catcher they will not be able to top what the Yanks are offereing them.
The whole thing is really fascinating, no ?
AndrewMarchand: There are people who don't think acquiring Cliff Lee, whom the Yanks will sign, for minor leaguers is good? #Yankees
AndrewMarchand: There are people who don't think acquiring Cliff Lee, whom the Yanks will sign, for minor leaguers is good? #Yankees
I loved the hype on Montero and bought it, but I say do it.
They obviously don’t see his development progressing as they wanted it to and have committed to Romine as their next catcher.
He wants to play here and will stay on.
I hope the Red Sox get him.
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not if you’re a yankees fan living in new england ! no way jose !
igotid88 – he can’t hit up here until he can catch up here. that does not help our team at all.
This trade would significantly increase the Yankee’s chances of winning this year, especially if they can flip Javy for the other pieces they need (a bat and/or reliever).
That doesn’t mean the loss of Montero wouldn’t be very painful, you just have to weigh that loss vs the increase in chance of winning this year and the significantly better chance of keeping Lee longterm.
Ya know…all these people complaining about hte gluttony of the Yankees and how it will look bad and be bad for competition and blah blah blah…
For real…this is the Yankees…aren’t you used to this by now?
I’d just like the one GM on here who put together a WS team to please stand up.
Gotta trust the system.
Can a Javy deal for a DH be far behind?
Wave don’t even try, these people are like babies. They only see what’s happening in the present and completely neglect the future.
Son of a…..
I wanted today to be a very productive day. Lots of thing to do.
Now, I’m gonna be glued to my comptuer tracking the Lee-stakes.
blake – add in the fact that montero’s path to the majors is severely blocked. they dont want to bring up a rookie DH, we have a 1B and they are telling us by making this move that Romine is the catcher of the future.
So, in essence we will be losing the difference between montero and our DH, we are not losing miguel cabrera.
This trade happens, I bid the Yankees goodbye for the year and turn my attention to Terrence Williams and the New Jersey Nets.
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This would be a great move for you…if you are against to aquiring big name talent…something the Nets put on a clinic of in the past few days.
Don’t do it Cash!!!
I’m assuming that the people who work in the Yankees systems know a lot more about Montero and his development than people raging on an internet board.
I have that much faith.
Andrew Marchand should do us all a freaking favor and kill himself immediately
# G-C July 9th, 2010 at 11:20 am
I wouldn’t think its a big deal if Lee went to another contender.
Forgive me for not being frightened by a softtossing lefty who was in A ball three years ago.
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I don’t fault people if they don’t like the trade but let’s not trash Lee for the sake of trying to prove a point.
He came back from the minors and won a Cy Young. He won 4 playoff games last season.
Do you not remember him cutting through the Yanks lineup like a hot knife through butter in the biggest game of his career?
Charlie – so what’s your solution for the “future” in 3 years when Romine is catching and Tex is still playing 1B? come on swami, impress me.
ps. if you say montero can dh, you lose.
This would be a great move for you…if you are against to aquiring big name talent…something the Nets put on a clinic of in the past few days.
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You are the second winner of the day. Well done with that comment.
# gus July 9th, 2010 at 11:31 am
Shame I remember when the Yankees won games with some very good players but didn’t have a star at every position. Maybe I’m a minority here but I still like to think there’s competition in baseball. When the Yankees lost in 2001 everything turned around. Steinbrenner went nuts and that’s when he started buying FAs like they were going out of style. Look where that got us. I hope the Red Sox get him. They need him more than we do. Then we might have some real compeitition and not just a lazy walk to the world series. If Lee is on the team I’ll just start concentrating on the Knicks earlier then usual.
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Getting Cliff Lee and all the messed up contracts we handed out to Giambi, Pavano, Wright, Brown, etc are not the same thing. We ARE more responsible with how we do business these days. If you honestly believe we are just going to yawn our way to the WS you are very wrong (I wish you weren’t, btw). Teams show up to play us no matter what, but in the WS we are always Goliath. We’ve made it before and lost (2001, 2003) and as far as I’m concerned we win nothing on paper. Have fun watching the Knicks, if they played the game like we do, LeBron would be on your team instead.
If the Phillies are wanting an established pitcher to help for the rest of this season, then I’m not sure who would be available thats better than Javy Vasquez?
Seriously? You’re done with the Yanks and are going to start focusing on the Nets and Knicks in July? Hilarious and full of it, too.
Rays’ offense also has struggled more against LHP this year. If this trade goes through, potentially throwing 2 or 3 top-class left handed starters at them in a 3 game series down the stretch could be a big difference-maker. Ditto for if they were to meet in the ALCS
Can we at least agree that if Cliff Lee does sign an extension, it’s not a terrible deal?
The whole Montero+ for a rental is obviously a bit much.
I imagine the Yankees would have some knowledge that Lee wants to stay with the Yankees and they have hashed out a ballpark price range already that Lee will agree to.
(I realize the thought is they can sign him no matter what after the season, but suppose that isn’t 100% true.)
funny how none of you bridge jumping losers are on here talkin baseball when there isn’t something to cry about. i bet charlie, g-c, and maybe 1 or 2 others are all the same idiot.
I like Javy, but if the Yanks could get Werth for him after a trade for Lee, I’d do that deal. The Yanks could see 1st hand how Werth plays out in NY and decide if they want him or Crawford next year. A RH bat is a need & they could still keep Thames as a RH pinch hitter & part-time DH against some really tough LHP.
The Yankees future is fine. With or without Jesus Montero.
Put another way, if the Yankees weren’t SKY HIGH on Austin Romine, there’s no way in bloody he11 they do this deal while Jorge Posada is on his last leg.
Austin Romine is the catcher of the future.
DEAL WITH IT!
New Post: An unusual deadline?
I am not happy giving up Montero for Lee but I understand it – if we can sign Lee long term. I could even see giving up Montero for a rental player if it was for a position of NEED. I do not understand dealing Montero for Lee if Lee is only a rental.
We have a starting rotation that has *3* All Stars on it. We do not NEED Cliff Lee. We are already the favorites to repeat. Lee makes us the OVERWHELMING favorite to repeat. But then next year we might not have him and we have no Montero. Don’t like that at all.
Get me Lee for a 4-5 extension, I’ll give Montero. No extension, no dice.
“I don?t fault people if they don?t like the trade but let?s not trash Lee for the sake of trying to prove a point.”
I said a couple weeks ago that I’d rather have AJ Burnett pitching in a big playoff game than Cliff Lee.
This isn’t just irrational anger. I don’t like Cliff Lee, never have, and never will. I hope he sucks and near costs the Yankees the World Series this year before one of said Burnett or Andy Pettitte has to pick him up, and I hope Montero goes on to be one of the best young hitters in the game in short order.
New thread everyone, Irreverent I’ll respond there. I don’t know how to make that arrow smiley…. so ->>>
“Wave don’t even try, these people are like babies. They only see what’s happening in the present and completely neglect the future.”
Some Yankee fans writes off a game as a loss in the 3rd inning if the Yankees are down by 3 runs and you think they are worrying about what’s going to happen 3 years from now?
Cashman could also orchestra a nifty 3-teamer that sends Vazquez to a team for prospects, then they use those prospects to get a RH hitter to play a corner OF/DH.
BD – they probably think that they were going to sign him anyway, we won’t lose a draft pick to do so if he’s on our team. we either get prospects back for javy/whatever we trade away, or get picks for javy/werth when they walk after the season…
so we get a stud, sign a stud, move a blocked prospect for more prospects, still have our franchise catcher, still have our infield locked up for the next 5 years
yeah, this is all so terrible for us :p
Folks, the most likely explanation for Montero being in the trade is that the Mariners (along with almost everyone in baseball) believe he is the real deal and want him more than Romine, NOT that the Yanks secretly believe Romine to be better and have fooled everyone.
And the Yanks were still the most likely to sign Lee in the off-season.
So if you want this deal to go down, don’t wish away the problems with it. Want it with your eyes open.
Not liking Cliff Lee is irrational. He’s quite good. Check the box scores since 2008. They’re impressive. You might like them.
Judging someone for being sent down to the minors in 2007 is irrational. The point of going to the minors is to rework mechanics so you can get back to form (Cliff Lee was actually 4th in the Cy Young voting in 2005, but no one seems to acknowledge that). His trip the minors actually worked wonders, and now he dominates. The same thing happened to Halladay. Such is baseball.
NY Yankees 54-31 Mariners 34-51 who would you choose?
the negotiating window for Lee i think is different than negotiating new contracts for Jeter/et al. The Yankees are not giving up solid plus prospects to get them I think there’s a difference of value here in that regard. So IMO, I think getting a window for the Lee trade and signing him to an extension is important.
If this happens I think it can officially be said that we’re back to the early irrational Steinbrenner days with a mere skeleton of a farm system. Presuming this trade goes through, we will have one of the oldest (all starters at least 30 y/o as of 7/21 if Hughes to pen) and most expensive (no comment necessary) rotations in baseball.
If the Yanks do this deal, it will be because their farm system has improved so much in the past few years that they view Montero as expendable (not that it won’t hurt, but it’s a lot easier to do when you have pieces like Cervelli, Romine, and eventually Sanchez, still available). Cash should be getting kudos for improving the farm, not criticism.
you guys are crucifying Jesus
Jeff NJ July 9th, 2010 at 9:44 am
This is a complicated one for the Yankee fan. One, it’s a move that would probably win the Yankees the World Series this year, so there’s that. But, the rotation is solid and they have a good chance to win it anyway. I hate to give up stud prospects like Montero, I mean we’re just getting used to having to deal with Austin Jackson being a star.
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Oh good lord good lord good lord would you ppl stop with this Austin Jackson nonsense. He is NOT a star, definitely not now and you don’t know for sure that he ever will be.
He has NO power, and his OBP is too low for a top of the lineup guy. Did I forget to mention he’s on pace for 165 K’s and only 39 BB’s? Terrible!!
wow.. talk about ridiculous (your gripes)
pitching wins games.. its carried us all year. Lee is a proven ACE!!! and your griping about trading a future “possible” star.
baffled at the lot of you.
I like Javy, but if the Yanks could get Werth for him after a trade for Lee, I’d do that deal. The Yanks could see 1st hand how Werth plays out in NY and decide if they want him or Crawford next year. A RH bat is a need & they could still keep Thames as a RH pinch hitter & part-time DH against some really tough LHP.