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The Boss and the Hall of Fame

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Jul 15, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Obit Steinbrenner BaseballOur corporate pals at USA Today have been running a poll on their web site about whether or not George Steinbrenner belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame, and during the course of my conversations with people who knew him this week that very subject has – not surprisingly – come up constantly.

One of the most succinct opinions on the matter came from Mike Stanton, the reliever who won three championships with the Yankees during the dynasty years. Stanton told me that, honestly, he doesn’t really understand the argument from people who say Steinbrenner shouldn’t be in the Hall.

“I don’t see how you can say no,” Stanton said. “You put down New York Yankees and what do you think of? You think of the interlocking NY and you think of turtlenecks.”

I chuckled at the imagery when he said that, but it’s certainly true. And Stanton went on, “I just don’t see how they could say he doesn’t deserve it. For what he’s done and what he’s built? Absolutely.”

My opinion is that Steinbrenner deserves to be in the Hall of Fame and so does Marvin Miller. Whether either man actually makes it remains to be seen.

* That’s an AP photo of a small memorial to the Boss that was created just outside the gates of his home in Tampa.

 
 

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100 Responses to “The Boss and the Hall of Fame”

  1. Bronx Jeers July 15th, 2010 at 11:12 am

    Erica & Erin:

    Same words, same time but one used a colon while the other hit the return key.

    Come on ladies, can you you at least try and get on the same page! :wink:

  2. Joe from Long Island July 15th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Absolutely, Sam. Each, in their own way, helped create the multibillion dollar business that is today known as MLB.

  3. Yankee Trader July 15th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    From last post-

    I’m personally not convinced we have anyone in the minors who could be of real help in the bullpen. Toronto is selling arms, but will probably want more from us. Brandon League would be nice but he has a very favorable 1.1M contract that Seattle doesn’t need to move, and it would be dealing with two-timing Seattle again. Kerry Wood is owed too much, even though he’s been much improved in his last five outings. If we could pry away Leo Nunez of the Marlins or Joel Hanrahan of the Pirates there could be an answer.

    Guessing the Yankees replace Kevin Russo with lefty Chad Tracy who has 2 homers in his short stint with AAA and might play some 3rd and share DH.

    No question Steinbrenner should be in the HOF. If Ty Cobb is in so should The Boss. :)

  4. mick July 15th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Doesn’t Bob Sheppard belong in the Hall as well?

  5. TIm N. July 15th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Buster Olney weighed in on this back in ’04: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=1883437

  6. Sam Borden July 15th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Good link, Tim, thanks.

  7. Erin July 15th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Bronx Jeers-LOL I didn’t even notice! I had to go back to see what you were talking about.

  8. Joe July 15th, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Marvin Miller–Resoundingly yes.
    George Steinbrenner–No.

  9. GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    The problem with GMS getting into the HOF, which he richly deserves, is that the same people keeping Marvin Miller out are the same ones voting for GMS. He’ll be kept out for the same reasons. Both are viewed as having ruined baseball….at least, their version of baseball. all they look at is what it’s done to salaries. They forget the obscene profits they make after paying salaries…much of it coming out of the Steinbrenner coffers.

  10. REA in MI July 15th, 2010 at 11:18 am

    George Steinbrenner had a profound impact on the Yankees, the city of New York, and the baseball landscape as a whole. Of that there is no question. We as Yankee fans owe him a great debt of gratitude for restoring the glory and prominence to our franchise.

    That being said, I believe the Hall of Fame should be reserved for those whose contributions to baseball went largely untainted. In the final equation, The Boss was also a man who was twice banished from baseball due to ethical and legal indiscretions. In his heyday, the hallmark of George Steinbrenner’s reign was tyrannic intolerance and petulance.

    George Steinbrenner’s impact on baseball is unquestionable; as such, I think there should be a permanent display in the exhibit hall of the HOF depicting the accomplishments of his career as owner. But enshrinement should be reserved for those who upheld a higher standard- for players, that standard should be their performance on the fireld and in the clubhouse; for executives, it should be the accomplishments of their team, but also theie comportment as a representative of the franchise, their honesty, ethics and reputation.

  11. Yankee Trader July 15th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    From Olney’s article. Thanks Tim-

    Only four owners have been inducted into the Hall of Fame — Clark Griffith of Washington Senators fame; Tom Yawkey, the late Red Sox owner; Charlie Comiskey, who operated the White Sox; and Bill Veeck, multiple-team owner known for creative fan incentives.

  12. Paul July 15th, 2010 at 11:21 am

    There should be no bout adoubt it.
    The Boss should be in the Hall.

    but it could reopen the door for pete rose…. uhg!

  13. Joe from Long Island July 15th, 2010 at 11:22 am

    Gb – sad, but a true reflection of the troglodytes who populate most of the owners’ seats. They conveniently forget that the big-dollar deals with TV and regional sports networks, and merchanidising are due to the work that George did in professionalizing the industry, and making it a business instead of a collection of individual cottage industries.

  14. Yankee Trader July 15th, 2010 at 11:25 am

    trog·lo·dyte (trgl-dt)
    n.
    1.
    a. A member of a fabulous or prehistoric race of people that lived in caves, dens, or holes.
    b. A person considered to be reclusive, reactionary, out of date, or brutish.
    2.
    a. An anthropoid ape, such as a gorilla or chimpanzee.
    b. An animal that lives underground, as an ant or a worm

    Joe- Had to look this word up- slight similarity to a “troll” LMAO.

  15. GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 11:25 am

    Yankee Trader, there are two owners that don’t belong in the HOF. Veeck was a great showman, but, he ran his teams for like a circus. His greatest contributions to baseball were Larry Doby, Satchel Paige and planting ivy along the walls of Wrigkey Field. Charles Comisky should have been run out of baseball before his players were.

    Connie Mack was also an owner, who also played and managed his teams is in the HOF, too.

  16. Joe from Long Island July 15th, 2010 at 11:26 am

    REA in MI – I respect your opinion and well-written post, but I disagree.

    Babe Ruth was suspended at least once for conduct detrimental to baseball. There are countless bigots and assorted troublemakers there. Charlie Comiskey had a reputation all right – for being two-timing and double-dealing. The despicable way he treated players was a factor in the Black Sox Scandal.

    So, contributing money to a politician and that sad episode with Winfield and Spira, to me, pale in comparison a bit.

  17. pat July 15th, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Yes to both Steinbrenner and Miller.

    The Hall of Fame not the Hall of Saints. If there’s a back story to tell, find a big plaque to do the explaining.

  18. Yankee Trader July 15th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    GB7-
    Thanks for the feedback. Hope you’re doing well. Who’s on your current list for bullpen and bench help?

  19. Erica in NY July 15th, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Erin (My fellow two-headed monster)

    We really should coordinate better!!! LOL

  20. JM July 15th, 2010 at 11:31 am

    REA in MI,

    There are a lot of unsavory characters already in the Hall of Fame (Ty Cobb says hello).

  21. Bronx Jeers July 15th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    The problem with GMS getting into the HOF, which he richly deserves, is that the same people keeping Marvin Miller out are the same ones voting for GMS.

    ———————————————————————————————————————

    Good point. Way too many executives on that board. Why?

    George and Miller are both responsible for increased payrolls.

    Check out what Jim Bouton says. This is from Miller’s wiki page.

    “How did these people vote, and why are their votes kept secret? And why aren’t there more players on that committee? Hank Aaron, Jim Bunning, Bob Gibson, Fergie Jenkins—they’re all on the committee for reviewing the managers and umpires. Essentially, the decision for putting a union leader in the Hall of Fame was handed over to a bunch of executives and former executives. Marvin Miller kicked their butts and took power away from the baseball establishment—do you really think those people are going to vote him in? It’s a joke… I blame the players. It’s their Hall of Fame; it’s their balls and bats that make the hall what it is. Where are the public outcries from Joe Morgan or Reggie Jackson, who was a player rep? Why don’t these guys see that some of their own get on these committees? That’s the least they owe Marvin Miller. Do they think they became millionaires because of the owners’ generosity?”

    Bottom line is that the HOF has evolved into a political entity. And George was no politician.

  22. GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 11:36 am

    I believe that it was back in the ’80s when GMS offered to negotiate the broadcast/both national and local contract for all ML teams (radio and team) and was turned down flat. at the same time, he was offering to do what he did with Adidas and Pepsi (the only thing that I can’t forgive GMs for – Coca-Cola is best). again, he was turned down. The idiots could have made a fortune). NYYs probably made more off of local contracts than the other teams made off of national contracts. That had to rankle the other owners.

  23. upstate kate July 15th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    no doubt on The Boss and Miller…I would put Pete Rose in as well

    We went down to Cooperstown a few weeks ago. They have the artifacts from the ’09 WS and an exhibit called Pinstripe Photos (or something like that) that was well worth seeing.

  24. REA in MI July 15th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Joe from LI-

    Your point is well taken.

    Colin Cowherd on ESPN (who mostly annoys me) once made what I thought to be an interesting point: “If you cannot tell the story of (insert sport here) in the (insert decade here)’s without talking about (insert player name), then that player deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.”

    It’s an interesting theory, although it might open the doors a bit too wide to include the likes of Jose Canseco, Fernando Valenzuela, Dwight Gooden and the like- individuals who achieved profound impact, but not lasting greatness.

    Re. JM’s point that there are a lot of unsavory characters already in the Hall, i.e. Ty Cobb- unless we plan to induct Pete Rose and Mark McGwire soon, the baseball establishment’s take on that sort of thing has clearly shifted.

  25. GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Yankee Trader July 15th, 2010 at 11:28 am
    GB7-
    Thanks for the feedback. Hope you’re doing well. Who’s on your current list for bullpen and bench help?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Fielder and Hart for the bench and Lee and Halladay for the bullpen.

    Doing just fine here, Trader. Thanks for asking. Much appreciated. Hope all is going well with you and your family.

    I wouldn’t mind having Matt Lindstom and or Brandon League in the pen and possibly Wigginton or Scott Hairston for the bench. His defense is equal to his brother’s at many positions but the bat is much better.

  26. Doreen - GTLU Stuff & Photos July 15th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    upstate kate -

    I’m afraid to go to Cooperstown this year. The last time we went was the summer after the Subway Series. It was great – they had two cows (like the ones that were all over Chicago a few summers before) all painted up in Mets/Yankees unis in a WS exhibit.

    It took them 9 years to win another one, so I don’t want to take any chances!!

    :lol:

    (Only half kidding)

  27. pat July 15th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    “They won’t sell. This team is going to stay in the Steinbrenner family. It is both because they desire it and it has been set up this way. This team is going to stay in the Steinbrenner family for a very long time.”

    The first person that George picked to be his successor was his daughter Jessica’s then husband, Joe Molloy but divorce derailed those plans. Their son Robert, has shown interest in getting involved in the organization and continuing George’s legacy.

    There is also speculation that George has terms in his will and trust that lay out how money from a sale would be distributed and it would be in his heirs best financial interest not to sell the team.

  28. GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    REA in MI July 15th, 2010 at 11:18 am
    George Steinbrenner had a profound impact on the Yankees, the city of New York, and the baseball landscape as a whole. Of that there is no question. We as Yankee fans owe him a great debt of gratitude for restoring the glory and prominence to our franchise.

    That being said, I believe the Hall of Fame should be reserved for those whose contributions to baseball went largely untainted. In the final equation, The Boss was also a man who was twice banished from baseball due to ethical and legal indiscretions. In his heyday, the hallmark of George Steinbrenner’s reign was tyrannic intolerance and petulance.

    George Steinbrenner’s impact on baseball is unquestionable; as such, I think there should be a permanent display in the exhibit hall of the HOF depicting the accomplishments of his career as owner. But enshrinement should be reserved for those who upheld a higher standard- for players, that standard should be their performance on the fireld and in the clubhouse; for executives, it should be the accomplishments of their team, but also theie comportment as a representative of the franchise, their honesty, ethics and reputation.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    You mean like Cobb and Speaker being stripped of their managerships and given one year to get out of baseball, for betting and throwing games? Those are facts, not just supposition.

  29. upstate kate July 15th, 2010 at 11:50 am

    Doreen
    they still had one cow on display, dressed up w/ Rizzuto’s uni to be the Holy Cow

  30. pat July 15th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    GB

    If Coca-Cola corporate headquarters was located 20 miles from Yankee Stadium instead of Pepsi, things could have been different.

  31. Erica in NY July 15th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Funny Cooperstown story-

    In August 1989, my family took a vacation there for 4 days. We packed our summer clothes and hit the road. We were greated by historically low temperatures and wound up stopping at Walgreens to buy sweats so that we wouldn?t all freeze to death.

    One morning we went to the Cooperstown Diner for breakfast. I remember this place being about 8×10 feet and filled to the brim with people. We eventually sat and ordered our food. The waitress was really old and running around trying to serve pretty much every table in there. We get our food and my mother asks for ketchup. The waitress brings ketchup. Then my mother asked for a fork. The waitress brings a fork. Then my mother asked for another cup of coffee. At which point the waitress started twitching and screaming ?Lady, I have all of these other customers in here. I can?t stand here and wait hand and foot on you?.

    I am pretty sure that was the hardest I laughed in my life to that point.

  32. Erin July 15th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 11:36 am
    (the only thing that I can?t forgive GMs for ? Coca-Cola is best).

    *************************
    Agree 100% :)

  33. Potch July 15th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    My feeling is that George will get in. They just would never have put him in while he was alive because of the two suspensions. Now that he’s gone, they’ll put him in.

    I just hope you don’t end up with an acceptance from Mrs. S like Leo Durocher’s wife who took them to task for waiting for her husband to die before putting him when they had decades to elect him.

  34. vblade July 15th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    2 headed muppet out in force today? lol j/k girls.

    Boss should be in the HoF, as does Pete Rose and Marvin Miller. Miller and GMS were visionaries that changed the dynamics of baseball management forever, and Pete Rose is the frickin’ hits leader for crying out loud.

  35. 86w183 July 15th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    I could argue for and against “The Boss” in Cooperstown for hours. His accomplishments alone are undeniable. Not only did his teams with 11 pennants and 7 World Series, but he turned a scrapyard franchise into the strongest, most profitable entity in the history of professional sports.

    Yet he did hire Howie Spira and that cannot be ignored. Still he is as deserving as any other owner in the history of the game if not more so.

    Baseball has the most unique floating standard of propriety and integrity. Steroid era sluggers appears to be unacceptable, yet Ty Cobb and other avowed racists are in there. As is a player who literally tried to kill someone on the field (Juan Marachal).

    It’s a museum of baseball, not a place of beatification.

    I don’t agree with Miller. He’s the union’s chief negotiator, that’s all. Let the players establish a Hall of they want Agents and lawyers to be recognized.

  36. Phil Columbus July 15th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    As much as I would like to see Mr. Stienbrenner in the HOF, I surely would not look forward to the haters dragging his name through the mud.

    I do wonder if he will get a plaque or a monument in Monument Park?

  37. G-C July 15th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    “I do wonder if he will get a plaque or a monument in Monument Park?”

    I think its time for a new monument out there.

    I hate that those monuments have essentially become tombstones though. I don’t think any player (or one coach) out there has had a “monument” dedicated while alive.

  38. tampayank July 15th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    the All Star Game had the TV lowest ratings ever, nothing against service but that 50 minute pregame couldn’t have helped, way too drawn out. I also blame Bud Selig :)

  39. pat July 15th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    giantspathanlon Eulogists at Bob Sheppard’s mass were John Mara, Brian Cashman, Lou Carnesecca, Sister Jean Amore and Bob’s oldest son Paul.

  40. GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    They will never put a monument in center field for any living person. Those are what the plaques are for. Just like Mantle and DiMaggio. They had plaques and the monuments were erected in memory to replace them. I assume that Berra and Ford may be the other monuments to go up.

  41. LGY - Free Dejo! July 15th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Stein should a statue outside the stadium.

  42. pat July 15th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    “…that 50 minute pregame couldn’t have helped…”

    The casual fan isn’t into a pitchers duel being pitched by 2 guys they’ve never heard of either.

  43. blake July 15th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    I saw that about the All star ratings…and I also agree that the nearly 9:00 start on a Tuesday and an hour of Fox pregame rambleings didn’t help.

  44. Doreen - GTLU Stuff & Photos July 15th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    I hate to even ask this, but did they leave (dedicated) space(s) out there? It’s all that large in the new Monument Park.

  45. GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Doreen, if and when another monument goes up, they’ll just do as they did with the Mantle/DiMaggio Monuments…rearrange then to fit.

  46. G-C July 15th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    “They will never put a monument in center field for any living person. Those are what the plaques are for. Just like Mantle and DiMaggio. They had plaques and the monuments were erected in memory to replace them. I assume that Berra and Ford may be the other monuments to go up.”

    Never knew that. Or knew it but hadn’t put the pieces together.

    Thanks for enlightening me.

  47. murphydog July 15th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    A lot of these HOF debates are about people seeking validation for their own opinions. How and why some are in the HOF and others not has been the subject of lots of inquiry, so much so that it seems pointless to go after it anymore. The Human Element in Baseball may be no more clearly on display than HOF voting.

    Steinbrenner’s legacy is still an open question. You can’t be as driven and complex as Steinbrenner and leave no questions after your death. (Compare him to Shepperd. Nobody seems confused or ambivalent about Shepperd). Madden’s book may help but it’s going to take a little more time and perspective to get the real George.

    In a lot of ways the HOF needs Steinbrenner more than he needs the HOF. Ditto Marvin Miller. Any claim to be the all-encompassing repository of Baseball Greatness sputters without those two men. Maybe another Congressional Hearing is in order ;)

    If you don’t see George on your next visit to Cooperstown, look a little closer: he’s the 800 pound Gorilla wearing the white turtleneck. Meantime, George has a big old place at 161st St and River Avenue to call his own, so whether he has a plaque in Cooperstown too may be a bit redundant, IMO.

  48. Erin July 15th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    tampayank July 15th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
    the All Star Game had the TV lowest ratings ever, nothing against service but that 50 minute pregame couldn?t have helped, way too drawn out. I also blame Bud Selig

    ***********************
    don’t forget-Buck and McCarver were involved. I always blame Buck and McCarver. ;)

  49. IDCWYT July 15th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Why not rename the stadium after George?

  50. mike July 15th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    S.I page 17. Joba most overrated in baseball. I am sure the most disliked as well. Garbage needs to be takin out soon.

  51. murphydog July 15th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    “Stein should [have] a statue outside the stadium.”

    Couldn’t agree more that George gets a statue. You have to consider a bronze George standing in the owner’s box overlooking everything.

  52. GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    IDCWYT July 15th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
    Why not rename the stadium after George?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    It is. It’s called “Yankee Stadium”. That’s what he wanted.

  53. vblade July 15th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    # mike July 15th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    S.I page 17. Joba most overrated in baseball. I am sure the most disliked as well. Garbage needs to be takin out soon.

    ——————–

    Off you go then.

  54. GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    mike July 15th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
    S.I page 17. Joba most overrated in baseball. I am sure the most disliked as well. Garbage needs to be takin out soon.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Just go out and sit by the curb, then. The truck will be around in an hour.

  55. vblade July 15th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    # GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Just go out and sit by the curb, then. The truck will be around in an hour.

    ———–

    Damn. I have many years to go before achieving these types of comebacks. :D

  56. GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    vblade July 15th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
    # GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Just go out and sit by the curb, then. The truck will be around in an hour.

    ———–

    Damn. I have many years to go before achieving these types of comebacks.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Randy is a much better teacher than I. He’s had so many more years to work on his smart ass remarks.

  57. Phil Columbus July 15th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    As public a person George Steinbrenner was about his Yankees, he held his family and personnel feeling very close to the vest. It will be intresting to see after all this settles what Geogre’s wishes were. I’m sure Hank, Hal and Joan will honor his wishes.

  58. murphydog July 15th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    “Why not rename the stadium after George?”

    I heard this the other day. That and the idea of renaming the field George M. Steinbrenner Field at Yankee Stadium. The last one was via Michael Kay.

    I don’t think it’s “George” to do that. Mr. Steinbrenner had all these years to do something to the uniform or the field or the new stadium and he passed. It’s the trappings of the tradition he wouldn’t mess with. He’d call attention to himself every other way but not that way.

    I was thinking that, given his dedication to athletic excellence and his apparent fondness for children, maybe a George M. Steinbrenner Academy was an idea. Work out a deal with NYC Public Schools, the Mayor and City Council, to build a school near or somewhere within the footprint of the new Stadium, park, etc. Make it a charter school, or a magnet school or whatever, but make it a scholarship school dedicated to excellence in athletics and studies for the kids of the City. Maybe it’s like Stuyvesant High School or Bronx High School of Science or the High School of the Performing Arts. The Academy would field teams in all sports and insist on scholar athletes. Prepare them for College and give them internships with the Yankees or YES or some other Yankee subsidiary. That would be better than changing the name of the new Stadium or altering the uniform in some permanent way, IMO. Give back to the community and imbue a new generation of kids with a drive for excellence.

  59. Bronx Jeers July 15th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    YSII is already referred to as “The House That George Built”

    I’m sure they’ll re-name part of 161st or River Ave. “Steinbrenner Way” or something like that.

  60. Joe from Long Island July 15th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Yankee Stadium.

    It already has the perfect name.

  61. Jim July 15th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    If you put Steinbrenner into the Hall then you have to put Scott Boras – they both have had the same type of impact on the game. Steinbrenner should have a monument/plaque and whatever type of NY Hall of Fame exists he’s a no-brainer – but those of you who argue that Steinbrenner was good for the overall game of baseball need to show me how he made the game better. The players he paid would have been in the game regardless of the contracts he offered, so how did his existence make the overall game of baseball better because there are a lot more arguments on the side that he made baseball worse. Before he owned the Yankees you could take a family of four to any baseball game in the country for under $100, he’s made it a rich man’s sport and relegated the middle class to tv/radio fans.

  62. Doreen - GTLU Stuff & Photos July 15th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Boras didn’t change anything, though. He just took the art of negotiating contracts to a different level.

  63. Bronx Jeers July 15th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Uhmm….you could do a lot of things with 100$ before 1973 that you can’t do now.

  64. Irreverent Discourse July 15th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    yeah, i wouldn’t say boras has done anything to actually “improve” the sport. he just figured out how to play the yankees off of every team in baseball and get his clients more money.

  65. Irreverent Discourse July 15th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    jim – you can’t take a family of four anywhere in this country for $100… maybe a movie. any public event, sports/concerts/shows/otherwise, will all cost more than $100. don’t blame that on stein.

  66. Jim July 15th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    My point is that if you consider Boras a cancer on baseball then you have to feel the same way about Steinbrenner they were two sides of the same coin. Yankee fans may love Steinbrenner for his free spending ways but he is held in very low regard elsewhere so let’s just end this talk now.

  67. pat July 15th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    “Before he owned the Yankees you could take a family of four to any baseball game in the country for under $100″

    You still can. Yankees have $5 ticket plans, $12 bleacher seats and a subway to get you there.

  68. BIG AL July 15th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    GB7 -
    You mean like Cobb and Speaker being stripped of their managerships and given one year to get out of baseball, for betting and throwing games? Those are facts, not just supposition.

    ____________________________________________________

    If this is true, how do they justify keeping Pete Rose out of the HOF? Makes no sense.

  69. Joe from Long Island July 15th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    I’ve been going to baseball games at the Stadium, and other ML parks, for years. The folks I sit with all seem pretty middle of the road to me.

  70. LGY - Free Dejo! July 15th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    “My point is that if you consider Boras a cancer on baseball”

    ——————————–

    Who said Boras is a cancer on baseball?

  71. upstate kate July 15th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    George and his free spending ways have benefitted a lot of small market teams thru revenue sharing…which doesn’t always go back into the team.

  72. 86w183 July 15th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Jim —

    You’re kidding eight?

    Comparing an agent to an owner whose team won 11 pennants and 7 World Series Titles?

    Comparing a guy whose entire career is about taking money from the game with a man who is responsible for bringing $$ Billions into the game?

    Scott Boras and Marvin Miller were great at what they did, but I fail to see what they added to the game. I can easily see what they added to their clients’ wallets.

  73. Jim July 15th, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Irreverent, I can take my family of four to my local minor league baseball game and buy tickets, pay for parking, buy food and drinks and a promotional item or two for under $100. I went to the Yankee game this year and spent $200 on tickets, $25 on parking, $50 on food and $50 on transportation. $325 and the tickets were about 10 seats from the top of the stadium. The Yankees won, the kids had a great time and they keep asking me when are we going to go back…

  74. Smokey July 15th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Jim,

    Agree. George is responsible for raising the salary of the players so dramatically, that more teams than ever are losing money, and less small market teams can keep their star players, which has affected parity and the worldwide popularity of the sport.

    George was good for the Yankees – not for the sport of baseball. His ideologies has translated into the decline of popularity because only a couple of teams can compete with us and star players rarely stay with their teams anymore.

  75. Yanksgal07 July 15th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Mr. Steinbrenner didn’t even sell the rights to name the Stadium for millions of dollars because he wanted it to be called Yankee Stadium which is world renown. He wanted it to always remain Yankee Stadium. George wasn’t going to sell out and break tradition …the man so high on tradition. Can you even imagine Yankee Stadium being called anything else?? The side name is the House that George Built which is good enough.

    Go Yankees 2010 !!

  76. Chip July 15th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    They renamed Legends Field after the Boss, they aren’t going to rename Yankee Stadium.

    Jim – Before Steinbrenner owned the Yankees a gallon of gas was 35 cents. Is that George’s fault too?

  77. G-C July 15th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    “George was good for the Yankees – not for the sport of baseball. His ideologies has translated into the decline of popularity because only a couple of teams can compete with us and star players rarely stay with their teams anymore.”

    Baseball is declining in popularity? Really? Last I checked attendance and merchandise revenues have skyrocketed over the past decade. Not just risen, but SKYROCKETED.

  78. LGY - Free Dejo! July 15th, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    I don’t want to sound insensitive and I have never really said anything on this topic but I get a bit annoyed at hearing so many people say they can’t afford to take their family to the Stadium anymore.

    There are tons of ways to make going to the Stadium affordable through promotions like pat mentioned above and 2nd markets like Stubhub.

    As long as you are not set on going to premium games like the Red Sox or Mets you can make it affordable.

    This year I have gone to 2 games. I sat in the first row in section 107 (field level) for $25 a ticket. I sat in the second row of 133 for $15 a ticket.

    I bought these on game days so I got a good deal but you have to remember that these are field level tickets. There are tons of tickets on stubhub for cheap for a lot of games.

    Also, no one forces you to buy food or beer at the stadium.

    You can bring food with you and water bottles. I always bring my dinner/lunch with me to the game.

  79. G-C July 15th, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Jim, you can’t pin any of that on Steinbrenner or the Yankees.

    My father and I have been half season ticket holders for the New Jersey Nets for the past 20 years. The same New Jersey Nets that won 12 games last season.

    It costs almost as much for us to spend a night in the Meadowlands (between tickets, parking, and food) than it does at Yankee Stadium. In some instances more.

    Entertainment is expensive these days. Ever buy a popcorn and a coke at a movie recently? I did last night and it cost me fourteen bucks.

  80. 86w183 July 15th, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    George Steinbrenner Field at Yankee Stadium is an idiotic idea. I’m only surprised it was Kaye and not Sterling who suggested it.

    I like the idea of naming the park/complex that will built on the site of the old place Steinbrenner Park or something like that.

    The idea of a school that would be a “Sports Magnet” program is great but the Yanks would probably have to fund it. If they do it I hope its a sports magnet for all or at least several aspects of the sports world for wannabe announcers, trainers, manager, equipment men, ticket men, game operations people, sportswriters, photographers, videographers, editors and so on….

  81. Chip July 15th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Smokey July 15th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
    Jim,

    Agree. George is responsible for raising the salary of the players so dramatically, that more teams than ever are losing money, and less small market teams can keep their star players, which has affected parity and the worldwide popularity of the sport.

    George was good for the Yankees ? not for the sport of baseball. His ideologies has translated into the decline of popularity because only a couple of teams can compete with us and star players rarely stay with their teams anymore.
    —————-

    Smokey,

    Two words for you: Revenue Sharing.

    Yankee money is what is keeping teams like the Royals, Marlins and Pirates in business.

    There are a lot of owners in this sport who have a lot more wealth than George. Unlike Steinbrenner though, those owners are influenced more by the bottom line than championships. You want to blame someone for financial inequities, blame the cheap owners who think that fans should be obligated to show up to watch awful teams.

    The formula is simple: Build a winning team, fans will show up, your revenue will go up. Look at the Twins, they’re now one of the top five revenue generating clubs in baseball because they invested back into the club (new stadium and contracts for Mauer and Morneau) and the fans are turning out to see them.

  82. Jim July 15th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Chip stop being a wise guy you know what I meant. In 1972 tickets behind home plate were $4 I was speaking in inflation adjusted terms.

  83. Rain Man July 15th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    No owner should be in the HOF unless he did something significant that was instrumental in the growth of the sport.

    George was instrumental in making the Yankees a worldwide powerhouse and brand. He was the first guy with a regional sports network owned by the team.

    He has taken the Yankees to new heights and a few other teams (like the Sox/Mets) but overall, can you say he was good for the sport? While he helped turn baseball into a booming business, it has not helped the on-field product of the sport, where small market teams are becoming a dying breed.

    George helped the business aspect of baseball exponentially, but what did he actual do for the game between the white lines?

  84. Joe from Long Island July 15th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Decline of popularity of baseball? In what universe do you live in?

    MLB made $6.5 B last year. They have mega-TV contracts and merchandising deals.

    Open your eyes and look at the teams and cities that are in the playoffs. Tampa, Minnesota, Detroit, Boston, Chicago, Anaheim, Texas, Florida, Philadelphia….Come on now.

    It was reported this past spring that even the Pirates made about $80M from revenue sharing and luxury tax take (and where did that come from?), before even selling a ticket or a coke. And what did that McCatchey ownership do with the money? Paid off their debt, pocketed the remaining cash, and then sold the team – reinvesting in the team was not on the agenda.

    So cut the crap.

  85. Yanksgal07 July 15th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    I have seats in section 411…cost me $20.00 a seat in my plan. I have two plans ..3 seats and 2 seats…I go to every game with family or friends ..I don’t sell on stubhub. I’ve also gotten tickets on stubhub for different games for less than the original cost of the seats. Naturally the big games like Boston, Mets, Old Timer’s Day and such are a hard ticket to get at a reasonable price but if you just want to go tp a game and enjoy with the kids you can get tickets at a decent price on stubhub. Since I go to about 40 games a season I buy my food at the deli down the block from the Stadium. I get a sandwich, drink, snack all for less than $10.00. You can bring food and drink in as long as the drink isn’t open and not a glass bottle. You don’t have to spend a fortune to still enjoy a game. That’s your choice…

    Go Yankees 2010 !!!

  86. upstate kate July 15th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    A guess it is all a matter of perspective. We live 7 hours away, so a trip to YS generally involves an overnight stay, and b/c it has to planned in advance, we can’t take advantage of last minute tickets. So for us, it is a once a year trip. Its no more expensive than a day of skiing, or a trip to a theme park, and that is how we view it.

  87. tampayank July 15th, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    I’m not for a hard salary cap but the current system is not working. And the low ratings and declining popularity are proof of that

  88. Erin July 15th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    New Post: Before he painted the corners, CC threw the paint

    :arrow:

  89. Smokey July 15th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    How has revenue sharing helped the As, Royals, Pirates, Orioles, Blue Jays, Indians, Marlins, Astros, Arizona, Mariners, etc.?

    The number of “have-nots” are greater than at anytime in the sports history. As a Yankee fan, it is great for me, but not for the game.

    The sport is booming, revenue-wise, not competition-wise.

  90. Joe from Long Island July 15th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    I had to take the Long Island Rail Road into Manhattan yesterday. Cost me $25.

    Agreed, we bring our lunches to the games. No one has ever stopped us. I buy a beer there, from the same older gent who runs the stand behind my section. I always tip the guy, and he really does appreciate it.

  91. Joe from Long Island July 15th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    What other teams choose to do with their money is beyond the Yankees’ control.

    The only reason Loria and the Marlins gave Josh Johnson his contract extension was because MLB and Bud got on their back, over the publicity they were getting about Loria pocketing his revenue sharing loot. Once that publicity came out, the Marlins did a 180 and gave Johnson his contract and money. Funny how that happened.

  92. Irreverent Discourse July 15th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    jim – you spent $200 on 4 upper deck, back row tickets? you know… face value they aren’t even that expensive… i get tickets from a friend that has season bleacher seats. i spend roughly $500 on 4 tickets for 10 games (red sox, tampa, and mets games included). then we go stand on the main level behind 226 and laugh at the people that paid $150-$200 to sit 3 feet in front of us, or go find an empty field level section and pay the usher $20 to sit down there.

    you are doing it wrong.

    also, you brought up a minor league game as an example, for 2 people… which is not 4 people… so you couldn’t do that for under $100 either.

  93. Irreverent Discourse July 15th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    smokey – how has it helped those teams? well, they still have pro baseball teams, for one.

  94. GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    There have always been times when not all families could afford to go to ball games, but, the stands have never been as filled with fannies as they are today. Trust me, families enoy minor league games as much as major league games, and for a much cheaper cost. They are a great family entertainment. The kids are so much more involved in watching the games, they are closer and they can interact more with the players. Kids can get autographs that don’t cost a dime. Food/refreshments aren’t $10 for a beer, $4 for a Coke or $7 for a hotdog. It’s also considerably safter for the kids. If you haven’t been to then, try it. Minor League attendence has never been higher. It’s great to see these young players in the developement stages.

  95. Doreen - GTLU Stuff & Photos July 15th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    It is not just Yankee Stadium that costs a small fortune to see a game. A “smaller” fortune, maybe, but a lot of money to see major league baseball anywhere, nonetheless. We’ve been to several ML parks; they’re none of them cheap.

    You don’t do to a MLB game without planning, and it’s more of an outing than just a day at the ballpark. Unless you’ve budgeted for some kind of season ticket plan or budgeted for multiple games, you can’t go at the spur of the moment.

    But you can go, as you said, to minor league games for a lot less money and those games are a lot of fun.

    The cost of a Broadway show is astronomical as well, if you want to actually see the people on stage. You can’t go to all the shows you would like to, so you pick and choose and budget. Or you compromise on where you’d like to sit, though even orchestra seats aren’t exactly cheap. Less expensive, but not cheap. But there are alternatives similar to minor league baseball and you can see good theatrical productions locally for a fraction of the cost.

    However, all that being said, when I was growing up, in a middle class family, probably on the lower end of the middle class income range, we didn’t spend a lot of money on entertainment. We only went to one major league baseball game a year; we only went to one Broadway show a year; they were special occasions. We went out Friday nights to the local Italian or Chinese restaurant and my parents ordered for us the cheapest thing on the menu (which I didn’t realize at the time).

    Everything costs more and it’s not all Steinbrenner’s fault.

    And without revenue sharing, it could be argued that there may have already been contraction in the league. And as for parity, look at the standings and the WS winners and playoff teams in the last decade or so. The Yankees don’t win it all every year. Teams look like they’re trying to change – making it a priority to take a chance on their young talent and trying to keep them around.

    Steinbrenner reinvested in his team. Many other owners do not do that. So until they do, I don’t think you can blame Steinbrenner for all problems of other teams.

  96. GreenBeret7 July 15th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Teams may be losing money, but, it’s a fact that owners are making a fortune. Why do you think that people are standing in line to buy sports teams. George Steinbrenner had diversified, but, he was one of the last “sportsman owners”.

  97. Doreen - GTLU Stuff & Photos July 15th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Jim,

    We went to see Lakewood Blue Claws in NJ this past weekend. We were three this time. Tickets for the game were $10 each and we sat in Row 21 behind the first base dugout. But you can get $7 seats and if you want to sit on the lawn it’s even less. It was $5 for parking. We had 2 bottled waters and a small soda for about $10. We had two ice creams (3 scoops per cup) for $11. We had eaten earlier, so we didn’t have “real food” there. But we only spent $58. If my other daughter came, it would have cost another $13. (We share ice creams, ’cause they’re too big.) If we had eaten, another $30 to $40 (depending on 3 or 4 of us). So probably right around $100.

    But many of the minor league ballparks have deals where the kids get a hot dog, soda and snack for free.

    We always share any snack we get and we don’t buy souvenirs. You can go to minor league games – 4 people – very economically.

  98. Doreen - GTLU Stuff & Photos July 15th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Also, all the seats in the minor league parks are close. It’s like GB7 said, a very, very family friendly environment.

  99. Doreen - GTLU Stuff & Photos July 15th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Also, we went to Trenton Thunder game the weekend before. Just over $120 for 5 people. $60 for tickets, $60 for food and drink.

  100. DF July 16th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    Some one above said their were only four owners in the HOF. There’s at least five not four. They missed Walter O’Malley the owner of the Dodgers. If he’s in the HOF, George should be. Just ask an old Brooklyn Dodger fan.


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