Four perspectives on chasing 600 home runs
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 23, 2010 
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Joe Girardi
The manager who has said he hates the pressure of milestones
“I hope it happens tomorrow. I hope he gets it out of the way early so we don’t have to talk about it. Just see what happens. This is when you kind of get concerned because this one, it’s a homer, but for whatever reason it takes on such a big flavor because it’s 600 and there have been so few guys get there.”
Derek Jeter
The shortstop who chased Lou Gehrig’s hits record last season
“It’s a little bit different because you’re trying to get a hit every time up anyway. I really don’t know how often you go up there and try to hit a home run… (Rodriguez) seems like he’s enjoying himself. He comes to the field. He’s having fun. He’s trying to help us win. You’d have to ask him about his mindset, but he seems like he’s having fun.”
Mark Teixeira
The power-hitting first baseman with 260 career homers
“No chance. I’m not getting there. Alex’s numbers dwarf mine and will for the rest of his career and the rest of my career… I’ve never had any milestones like that. This is a monumental event. It’s going to be in his mind. Hopefully it’s going to be in a close game when Alex isn’t worried about a personal home run, he’s worried about, I want to drive in some runs here and help the team win.”
Alex Rodriguez
The guy who’s one home run away
“I have a different perspective on things. Early in my career I loved winning and I loved to win, but it was about accumulating numbers and hoping you got to the postseason. Now it’s just about one goal, and along the way you hope to get big home runs and drive in runs to help us win.”
Associated Press photo of Rodriguez’s 599th
MaineYankee July 23rd, 2010 at 8:57 am
Bret
What did you put in your coffee this am?
*********
I drink green tea
I was just driving home the point that we have the chips to pull off a major blockbuster.
I said last night that the Yankees aggressive approach to Lee, then rumors to Lilly and now rumors about Haren all form a pattern.
It tells me Pettitte’s retiring.
No disrespect to Chad, because I know he’s just doing his job. But the NY & national media are trying to make a story out of this and nobody outside of NY really cares. I know there are some Yankee fans that are caught up in it, but there are also plenty that could care less.
Bret-
A supposition about Pettitte, an inference perhaps.
Only Andy really knows for sure.
Personally I hope he does return. He has plenty more left in the tank from what I can see.
I think the moves for additional SP are unrelated myself.
But hey, that’s just my take.
Andy has not told anybody with the Yankees he is retiring at the end of the year.
CountryClub, I think you have it the opposite. The National Media has been trying to down play it, and as is all too often the case, the sheep will follow what the media puts out there.
CountryClub:
You’re right. Nobody outside of Yankees fans gives a rats backside about Arod’s 600th homer. Not even all Yankees fans do. That said, Chad’s audience is full of fans who are excited about the prospect. Gotta cater to your audience, right?
FWIW, I haven’t seen the national media make much of it. In the end, it’s really not all that significant historically. But it’s a nice milestone for him and a potentially cool moment for the fans.
SJ44,
If the Yankees add Haren, that makes 6 starting pitchers for 2011.
CC
Lee
Haren
AJ
Andy
Hughes
Bret
I’m not saying they won’t trade for a pitcher but what you proposed is way to much in terms of prospects.
You have to decide if the cost is worth the reward and I think your cost is to high.
I hope he hits it off of Davies on Saturday. I believe Davies gave up #500 so that would be pretty funny right?
MaineYankee,
I wouldn’t trade that much for Greinke. I was just illustrating the point that he can be had.
No disrespect to Country Club but if Chad isn’t writing about a Yankee-centric story on a Yankee blog what should he be writing about?
47000 people last night seemed pretty interested.
Ironic that a crowd who often booed because Alex they thought he only hit “garbage time” HRs was disappointed that he didn’t hit one last night.
Mgumpher & Bill D,
I guess I should have said “some” of the national media. Regardless, I hope he does it tonight and gets it out of the way.
pat,
I wasn’t ripping Chad. i made it very clear that he’s doing what he has to do.
I care about A-Rod hitting 600 HR. There, I said it.
If the Yanks traded for Haren (and I doubt they will), that would probably end the Lee pursuit before it even began.
It is not easy retiring when you are pitching well & not injured i would imagine.
Once you do you can’t go back & pick up those wins.
I would imagine pettittes kids think it is kool that their dad is playing for the yankees also.
I don’t see him retiring until he has a bad year & or an injury comes into play.
CountryClub July 23rd, 2010 at 9:16 am
If the Yanks traded for Haren (and I doubt they will), that would probably end the Lee pursuit before it even began.
***********
That’s interesting. Does that mean Crawford comes back into play in the whole battle of Lee vs. Crawford?
It depends on whether or not the Yankees still are interested in Carl Crawford.
Country Club . .i don’t think the Haren situation has nothing to do with Lee..
Haen and Lee would replace Pettite and Vasquez next season . ( if Pettite retires )
sports center had Alex’s 599th HR as the lead off story this am. Later on, they showed what pitchers he would be facing in the next few days.
I care about winning the ring this year. The 600 Hr “chase” is an embarrassment, wish it would go away quickly.
All this talk about Haren and others is about one thing- Insurance.
Insurance for the rotation going forward.
Insurance in case AP retires and Javy moves on.
Insurance against the possibility that we can’t get Lee.
You can never have enough Pitching. That’s my take.
Mike Ri July 23rd, 2010 at 9:18 am
Country Club . .i don’t think the Haren situation has nothing to do with Lee..
Haen and Lee would replace Pettite and Vasquez next season . ( if Pettite retires )
*********
So if the Yankees get Haren and Pettitte doesn’t retire, the Yankees have to pass on Lee in order to avoid a 6 man rotation?
“I care about winning the ring this year. The 600 Hr “chase” is an embarrassment, wish it would go away quickly.”
That a contradiction given that every HR A-Rod hits makes it more likely that they win this year.
Bret-
Think about that “problem” from a different angle.
They not getting Haren. Arizona is very tough to deal with, and since Haren’s ERA+ is currently 98, he’s not worth what they would want.
I’ll never be more impressed with Arod than I was last season when he came back from hip surgery and was content to fade into the background and just concern himself with being a team player. It made him and Teix seem like what it might have been like to watch Ruth and Gehrig at their best at times. The old Arod reared his ugly head a couple of times this year and that’s a shame because he would be have probably earned back at least 75% of the respect he had pre-steroid scandal by now with that quiet go-about-your-business attitude.
Not to mention Haren’s contract is bad.
Mike Ri July 23rd, 2010 at 9:18 am
Country Club . .i don’t think the Haren situation has nothing to do with Lee..
Haen and Lee would replace Pettite and Vasquez next season . ( if Pettite retires)
—————————
It’s a big if with Pettitte though. Even if Andy does go, the Yanks might not want to add another high salary pitcher to go along with CC, AJ and Haren. Hughes would be a very good 4 and then one of the kids could fill the 5 spot.
haha, let’s wait and see what happens over the next 8 days first.
Bret-
If the contract is bad then don’t you have to give up less to get him ?
Rich-
Haren still has a lot of upside IMO.
It was said yesterday by one of our esteemed guests that Hal dotes on pitching.
Maybe that is true.
Only six other players in the history of baseball have hit 600 homeruns. Whatever you think about Alex, I would say it’s a pretty big deal.
MTU July 23rd, 2010 at 9:28 am
Bret-
If the contract is bad then don’t you have to give up less to get him ?
*********
I agree and believe that’s why his name has been linked with the Yankees.
“Lost” says the Yankees would be reluctant to include Joba but I would.
That gets it done.
Joba + Adams + Phelps is a small price to pay.
I actually think Andy may decide to come back and if so I’d rather give him a other one year deal than take on Haren. I just think he may be similar to Lackey in the AL east…a good pitcher that will be paid as an elite pitcher.
I’m excited about Arod’s 600. Its dissappointing that the steroid stuff came out but I really believe Alex would have been close to this number even of he never used (he’s that talented)…maybe I’m just naïve but I don’t see hm as a guy that would be sitting on HR #350 without the juice…..which is why its sad he went down that road.
“The old Arod reared his ugly head a couple of times this year”
When? I thought he’s stayed the course pretty well this year.
Bret-
Reluctance is understandable but I think I would pull the trigger on that one too.
Right now there is just as much chance JC becomes Farnsworth as there is that he is Hughes.
Adams and phelps are totally fungible.
Haren still has the potential to be very good.
Haren’s contract is not that bad.
Signed through 2012 wich is only 2 years with a club option for 2013 at 12.5 million a year.
MTU
Yes, but he has to be obtainable at a reasonable price, and I don’t think that’s possible.
“They not getting Haren. Arizona is very tough to deal with, and since Haren’s ERA+ is currently 98, he’s not worth what they would want”
Agreed. Arizona will most likely require more than the Yankees would be willing to part with. In addition to Haren’s rough numbers this year, it’s also worth noting that over his career his 2nd half numbers have been pretty pedestrian. August and September have been his worst months (27-29, 4.44 ERA).
Bret-
And on the six man issue. It is possible than if the Yanks wanted Lee and Andy returned that they could spin off Haren to someone else for prospects lost in the original trade.
Lot’s of clubs are interested in Haren. Starting pitching is like gold.
Would everyone agree that Haren is preferable to Javy in the playoffs?
It really gets interesting if mitre & hughes do not pitch well next time out not to mention hughes is rapidly approaching his innings cap.
They had the perfect trade lined up,it just didn’t work out for lee.
The other thing to consider in all of this is that Haren is having a down yr and he’s playing in a pitchers park in the NL.
Rich-
Their has been considerable buzz surrounding Haren.
A package like the one suggested might be very competitive especially since AZ may wish to clear Haren’s considerable (for them) salary.
It’s just a thought. If I were to guess i would put the odds at 60/40 in favor.
Bret The Hitman July 23rd, 2010 at 9:38 am
Would everyone agree that Haren is preferable to Javy in the playoffs?
——————-
This year’s Haren? I’m not so sure.
Career wise? Absolutely.
a few thoughts:
1. Last night’s game was a new high point in my Posada frustration. Stupid throws, lazy job blocking the plate…anyway…
2. I keep going back and forth on whether Haren will be traded or not, today I think he will, my question is still at what cost. Arizona (according to reports) doesn’t want a boatload of prospects, they just want Major League ready pitching, starters and relievers. Would the Yankees consider offering Melancon, Phelps and another prospect and if so, would that be enough?
3. If the Yankees did get Haren I don’t think that would put them out of the Lee sweeps. Has Andy said he’s retiring? Nope. But he also hasn’t said he’s sticking around either. And even if he does, I like a rotation of CC, Lee, Haren, Hughes and AJ better than CC, Haren/Lee, Andy, Hughes and AJ.
4. The Texas Rangers are saying that they probably can’t pay Josh Hamilton’s arbitration bump. I would love for the Yankees to focus on him this winter – Maybe Granderson, Joba and money for Hamilton?
5. The Royals are saying that no one, including Grenkie, is untouchable. That doesn’t mean that he’s on the market, just means that if someone made a stupid offer (say Joba, Hughes, Montero and Nunez) they wouldn’t turn it down out of hand.
CC-
One bad year does not make a pitcher bad or indicate a sustained decline does it ? Also, he has pitched extremely well in the AL before.
To me he is a buy low combined with an AZ. salary dump.
That is how I look at it.
CountryClub July 23rd, 2010 at 9:40 am
Bret The Hitman July 23rd, 2010 at 9:38 am
Would everyone agree that Haren is preferable to Javy in the playoffs?
——————-
This year’s Haren? I’m not so sure.
Career wise? Absolutely.
*********
Well, what about this year’s Javy and his 88 MPH fastball and supposedly fragile psyche?
Are the Yankees comfortable with him in the playoffs over this year’s Haren?
I’m not so sure.
ron July 23rd, 2010 at 9:34 am
Haren?s contract is not that bad.
Signed through 2012 wich is only 2 years with a club option for 2013 at 12.5 million a year.
***********
2012 and 2013 really seem far away, until you realize that its actually 2010.
This is so off-topic, but I heard Prince’s classic “1999″ on the radio this morning. That song always makes me laugh now because when it came out 1999 and 2000 seemed so far. Now that was 10 years ago and we survived Y2K.
And I really have no idea why I went off on this tangent
MTU -
I’m with you on Haren. He’s a good pitcher having a bad year and with a very team friendly contract.
Of course because he’s a good young pitcher having a bad year and with a team friendly contract is also the reason I keep going back and forth on whether the D’Backs would actually move him.
Chip-
Think financial problems in AZ. Salary dump.
Get Haren, then this winter sign Lee and trade for Hamilton:
2011 lineup and rotation:
CC, Lee, Haren, Hughes, AJ
Jeter – SS
Swisher – RF
Tex – 1b
Alex – 3b
Cano – 2b
Hamilton – LF
Posada – DH/C
Montero – C/DH
Gardner – CF
(Granderson moved as part of the trade for Hamilton)
MTU July 23rd, 2010 at 9:43 am
CC-
One bad year does not make a pitcher bad or indicate a sustained decline does it ? Also, he has pitched extremely well in the AL before.
————————-
Oh, I agree. I’m just saying it’s something the Yanks would have to explore before pulling the trigger. It appears his FB avg velocity is exactly what it was last yr. So that’s good. And he’s been unlucky with batted balls in play. But he’s also giving up a lot of homers this yr.
Whoever trades for him will need to do their homework.
Chip-
Also think Snakes in rebuilding mode.
Chip
4. The Texas Rangers are saying that they probably can?t pay Josh Hamilton?s arbitration bump. I would love for the Yankees to focus on him this winter ? Maybe Granderson, Joba and money for Hamilton?
———————————————————————
You think that 2 guys having down years and cash will get you someone that is in the running for the MVP.
That noise you hear is the dial tone on the other end.
MTU
Do the Yankees have to give Jeter and Mo raises?
Do they want to add Lee?
Do they want to add Crawford?
Is Pettitte retiring?
They have very little payroll flexibility if they are determined to stay at or around $200m and I’m not sure it’s worth tying any of that up in Haren unless they steal him.
MTU -
Yeah I get the salary dump thing, but with Connor Jackson traded, Brandon Webb coming off the books as well as LaRoche I’m not sure how much more they have to pare from the payroll.
Im not sure why some think Haren has anything to do with Lee. Haren would replace Javy. .and Lee would replace Pettite.
Get Haren, then this winter sign Lee and trade for Hamilton:
2011 lineup and rotation:
CC, Lee, Haren, Hughes, AJ
Jeter – SS
Swisher – RF
Tex – 1b
Alex – 3b
Cano – 2b
Hamilton – LF
Posada – DH/C
Montero – C/DH
Gardner – CF
(Granderson moved as part of the trade for Hamilton)
___________________________________________________________________________
I could see this lineup next year however if thats the case i think i move cano to the 2 hole and let him have the protection of tex and arod… Hamilton would be an awesome pickup… I would try to trade Granderson, Joba, and either a lower prospect or cash
“Would the Yankees consider offering Melancon, Phelps and another prospect and if so, would that be enough?”
No. Gotta give up on Melancon having any kind of trade value. He’s been lousy for months at AAA after failing to show anything, albeit in limited chances, at the big league level. Bad as Haren’s been this year, he has a strong history, is still fairly young, and has a pretty team friendly contract. They’re going to want high end guys in return.
Rich-
Those are far too many questions for am amateur like myself to answer but I will venture a guess on at least one of them.
No Carl Crawford. GGBG has taken care of that. And I do not think they will trade Grandy anytime soon. JMO
I like a Haren trade for the pieces I proposed earlier. I think that would be a fair trade for both sides.
Maine –
I truly don’t know, it depends on how much they need to move Hamilton. Joba and Granderson are both young with a ton of upside.
Rich -
I disagree about their limited flexibility:
Figure Mo stays where he is in annual income (15 mil)
Jeter will probably get around 20
They still have Andy, Javy, Nick Johnson, coming off the books. Haren makes just as much as Javy and Lee would slot nicely into the remainder.
I don’t think the Yankees will go for Crawford because of the way Gardner has played (also where would you play Crawford?)
I see us getting a decent innings eater that takes the pressure off of hughes innings limit & allows us to put hughes in the pen.
He is at about 106 inning or so after another start or two ,girardi should have no problems getting hughes the innings he needs.
If the chance presents itself for cash to get a stud pitcher above & beyond our expectations that addresses next year also i think he considers it if one is available with montero being the centerpiece.
If AZ is looking for major league ready starters or relievers, I think Joba is a fair centerpiece. They like Kennedy and took a chance on him. They have a wild arm and late bloomer in Edwin Jackson.
The tricky part is how the Yankees would handle replacing Joba in the bullpen.
Do they then spin surplus minor league starters for a setup guy?
Rich in Nj
Forget Crawford. Gardner erases that notion. that saves the Yanks money
Javy is gone – That saves money
assuming Pettite retires – - that saves money
trading for Haren — Harens contract is a short term reasonable contract , The Yankees will need to land a starter to Replace Javy anyways.
Lee – obviously will cost the Yanks big time
A trade for Haren wouldn’t hurt the yankees finacially or long term . .it also would have no affect on landing Lee
Josh Hamilton is one of my favorite non-Yankee players (as Swisher was) and I’d love to see him in pinstripes but think it’ll take a whole lot to get him.
MTU
If GMs view Joba as the media does(the Yankees ruined him) then his trade value is not to high.
MTU
Unless he picks it up, I would look to trade Granderson, sign Crawford, and put Gardner in CF.
They do have limited flexibility:
http://spreadsheets.google.com.....utput=html
They have $144.612 committed for 2011, w/o Jeter’s $20m, Mo’s $15 (both minimum), raises for Phil and Joba, etc.
“The Texas Rangers are saying that they probably can’t pay Josh Hamilton’s arbitration bump. I would love for the Yankees to focus on him this winter – Maybe Granderson, Joba and money for Hamilton”
———————————
If the Rangers can’t afford to pay Hamilton how are they affording Granderson?
“You think that 2 guys having down years and cash will get you someone that is in the running for the MVP.”
With Chamberlain arb eligible after this season and Granderson’s salary climbing to $8.25M, how different is the money going to be? Hamilton probably goes from $3M and change to $10M or so in arb.
blake July 23rd, 2010 at 9:55 am
Josh Hamilton is one of my favorite non-Yankee players (as Swisher was) and I?d love to see him in pinstripes but think it?ll take a whole lot to get him.
************
Guess who my favorite non-Yankee player is!
I’m not sure the buyers(GMs) would view Joba and Curtis as the seller(you) do.
Not as far as getting a significant piece in return.
Haren could be looked at as insurance against Pettitte retiring.
If Pettitte stays, the rotation is set.
If he retires, the Yankees would need to add 1 starter (Lee) instead of 2 (Lee + ?)
Since Cashman is facing a sparse pitching market in this year’s free agent class outside of Lee, I can see why the Yankees are being linked to so many starting pitchers at this year’s deadline.
Maine-
That would be true if true.
Joba, like Haren, may be seen as a buy-low project pitcher with upside. I do not know.
That is also why 2 more significant pieces need to be added in addition to taking on the salary.
There is also the factor that there is competition for Haren’s services.
get going to acadia and get me some pics of the place please.
Chip,
You also have to stop including Melancon in deals like he is some sort of prospect. He isn’t.
You’re trade proposals this morning get an “F”
Poorly researched, but we will give you a chance to redo the assignment.
Erica in NY July 23rd, 2010 at 9:58 am
blake July 23rd, 2010 at 9:55 am
Josh Hamilton is one of my favorite non-Yankee players (as Swisher was) and I?d love to see him in pinstripes but think it?ll take a whole lot to get him.
************
Guess who my favorite non-Yankee player is!
———————————————–
JD.
“If AZ is looking for major league ready starters or relievers, I think Joba is a fair centerpiece”
If salary is a factor, than taking a guy who is arb eligible makes little sense. Plus Joba hasn’t performed to “centerpiece” level.
MTU
Going this afternoon.
Adding Haren and Lee could also be looked at as insurance against CC opting out after next season.
opting out… rofl…
from previous thread :
Interesting note -
The 2nd place Rays open up a 3-game series against the Indians in Cleveland. The Rays haven’t won a game in Cleveland since 9/28/05 when they beat Cliff Lee and the Indians 1-0.
It was Lou Piniella’s final victory as the then Devil Rays manager.
Since then, the Rays have played 17 games in Cleveland and lost them all. It’s the longest current losing streak by any team at another team’s home field.
You really think Joba, Granderson and cash is going to get you Hamilton? LOL
pat, Arod handled the Braden incident with arrogance instead of the humility he would have last year. He allowed the Torre thing to become a national distraction when a cold quick handshake would have gotten it out of the newspapers quick and he didn’t ignore the boos at the All-Star game. Little things – but things he would have handled differently last year.
The current version of Haren offers no insurance for CC other than being a placeholder.
Bill D July 23rd, 2010 at 9:58 am
?You think that 2 guys having down years and cash will get you someone that is in the running for the MVP.?
With Chamberlain arb eligible after this season and Granderson?s salary climbing to $8.25M, how different is the money going to be? Hamilton probably goes from $3M and change to $10M or so in arb.
—————————————————————————————
You can’t compare the value of those players based just on $.
Hamilton is worth more than those two based on performance.
Billy D,
I agree. I’m assuming (and hoping) AZ is as bullish on Joba as they were for Edwin Jackson and Ian Kennedy. Both of those arms came with wild swings in performance, makeup concerns and questions about consistency.
Plus, by centerpiece, I don’t mean to cheapen the package. If the other players in the package are of comparable value, the term applies to Joba in name only since he is so well-known.
Hamilton is an all-star MVP capable player every season, You want Halmilton, Hughes and Montero would get the attention of Texas. Not Joba and Granderson.
MaineYankee July 23rd, 2010 at 10:01 am
JD.
****************
Gold star and a cookie for you!
LGY July 23rd, 2010 at 10:00 am
Chip,
You also have to stop including Melancon in deals like he is some sort of prospect. He isn?t.
You?re trade proposals this morning get an ?F?
Poorly researched, but we will give you a chance to redo the assignment.
————————–
Hmmm…redo:
Yankees get: Haren and Heilman
D’Backs get: Phelps, Nova, Adams
Yankees get: Hamilton
Rangers get: Granderson, Joba, Manny Bunelos, $$$$
“The Texas Rangers are saying that they probably can’t pay Josh Hamilton’s arbitration bump. I would love for the Yankees to focus on him this winter – Maybe Granderson, Joba and money for Hamilton”
Granderson has about 30 million left on his contract. And Joba is up for arbitration this offseason.
is this amateur hour in the trade market?
“pat, Arod handled the Braden incident with arrogance instead of the humility he would have last year.”
Really? Braden’s reaction was borderline psychotic. A-Rod was a bystander.
“He allowed the Torre thing to become a national distraction when a cold quick handshake would have gotten it out of the newspapers quick and he didn’t ignore the boos at the All-Star game. Little things – but things he would have handled differently last year.”
Again, that’s on Torre. He’s 70 freakin’ years old. He’s the one who treated A-Rod poorly, not the other way around. If anyone should have acted to diffuse the non-situation, it’s Torre.
“Hamilton is worth more than those two based on performance.”
Sure. Just explaining that the financial argument doesn’t work either.
Chip,
Hamilton isn’t happening.
Let’s stay focused on this year’s deadline.
I find this Haren stuff fascinating.
And it’s backed up by MTU’s secret source
Irreverent Discourse July 23rd, 2010 at 10:03 am
opting out? rofl?
—————
Why wouldn’t CC opt out of his contract?
If nothing else doing so would probably get him an extra 3 years at his current salary from the club.
Certainly the strategy worked out for Alex.
I was driving home listening to the game last night, and John & Suzy were talking about Granderson’s rough season.
They said someone asked Girardi if he thought Granderson was having trouble adjusting to NY and Girardi made a really great comment.
He said, he didn’t think Granderson was having trouble adjusting to NY but rather the much better pitching in the AL East.
Are Yankee fans delusional, Hamilton is one of the best players in the Majors.
Bret -
Oh I’m sure that Hamilton’s not being traded. A new owner will be there by this winter and he’ll have no problem picking up Hamilton’s arbitration number, if anything, they’ll deal Harden before they deal Hamilton.
I’m just having a little fun with it is all.
Why would the Rangers. who are leading there divison trade Hamiliton,
Bret-
“And it’s backed up by MTU’s secret source ”
Right.
Erica
I pay attention.
Make it oatmeal with rasins.
Mike Ri -
Well I think the idea was that they would put Hamilton on the market this winter, not now.
I don’t think Hamilton is going anywhere anytime soon. Ryan was simply making a point something must be done at the bankruptcy court for the team to effectively operate.
From rumors are us:
“Dan Haren Rumors: Friday
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [July 23 at 8:48am CST]
The D’Backs have started exchanging names with teams about possible Dan Haren trades and the Tigers, Yankees, Phillies, Cardinals and Twins appear to have varying degrees of interest in the righty. That’s just the abbreviated version of what we heard yesterday, but there’s more. The D’Backs’ asking price? High-quality major league-ready pitching. With that in mind, here are today’s Dan Haren rumors, with more to come:
•A D’Backs source tells Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic that expectations have shifted and it seems more likely that the D’Backs will trade Haren.”
Jim
The press was the ones that were guilty of making a big deal out of those two cases not Arod.
D’Backs’ asking price? High-quality major league-ready pitching.
*******
MTU’s package of Joba Chamberlain + Ian Nova + David Adams definitely reflects AZ’s demands.
Bret-
It would be quite easy to “tweak” the package in a way that makes it even more appealing to the Snakes.
Remember too that they would get to unload a fairly large piece of salary.
The economy was much different when A-Rod opted out of his contract.
I can’t see Sabathia opting out of his current deal. He’s never going to get that kind of cheddar anywhere else.
Being the highest paid pitcher in the game and being on the best team are hardly reasons to opt out of that contract.
“He said, he didn’t think Granderson was having trouble adjusting to NY but rather the much better pitching in the AL East.”
Interesting thought, but the numbers don’t necessarily bare that out. He’s 22/89 (just under .250) against the AL East, with 4 homers and 14 rbi.
Against the rest of baseball, he’s 37 for 158 (.234) with 3 homers and 10 rbi.
I think I’ll take the AL East numbers.
‘…. I know there are some Yankee fans that are caught up in it, but there are also plenty that could care less.”
COULDN’T care less, …..COULDN’T !!!!
If you say you could care less, it implies that you are at a certain level of caring, when what you actually wish to say is that the level of care is zero.
This reminds me of the truly horrible, ‘So don’t I!’, where I live……………..
I know that I am pedantic, but this drives me utterly crazy.
Bret-
I think we can have him if we want him badly enough. Do we ?
MaineYankee July 23rd, 2010 at 10:13 am
Erica
I pay attention.
Make it oatmeal with rasins.
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You do know there are no calories in hypothetical cookies right?
Erica in NY
It is only 2 years plus the rest of this year that we own him.
2013 is a club option year & he is only getting 12.5 million a year wich is nothing for a pitcher.
Consider what lee will get,probably a 5 year 18 million a year contract at 30 years old.
Haren is having a terrible year, except for his strikeout rate at 1/inning. His numbers are worse away from home and traditionally the second half of the season.
Josh Hamilton is going nowhere now. That’s just Nolan Ryan trying to facilitate the August 4th date for auctioning the team to the highest bidder.
Brett Myers is actually having a better season and has been successful in the past as a reliever, which would give the Yankees more flexibility when Pettitte returns. The reason the Yankees might be looking for a starter is that Mitre is really our only reliable multiple inning reliever in the bullpen, and there’s no guarantee that Aceves will be back this year.
Fausto Carmona has been very good with a terrible team looking to unload salary.
Attached are Haren’s situational stats. Look at them and then see if it’s worth what the Yankees would give up.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/p.....eContainer
Giuseppe Franco July 23rd, 2010 at 10:22 am
The economy was much different when A-Rod opted out of his contract.
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The Yankees were also much different
There was ownership chaos and it seemed that multiple people were running the team and trying to perform the same functions. And an outstead manager. The Yankees put themselves in a position were they appeared they could be manipulated since there was an obvious lack of unity
CC can’t opt out. the market is completely different from when he signed. no other team would offer him 80% of his current salary, so there would be no reason for the yankees to give him a raise.
Fausto Carmona will be far more expensive than Haren IMHO.
If I am going to enter hypothetical trade land-
I would rather have Carmona than Haren
YT-
He is about 30.
One year’s worth of bad stats may not tell the whole story or indicate a trend.
Nova and Adams are completely fungible and JC is a ?
Are we really giving up that much for a relatively young guy who still may have a high upside, or return to form ?
Yankee Trader-
he’s having a bad year. but he’s still a top pitcher.
“He said, he didn’t think Granderson was having trouble adjusting to NY but rather the much better pitching in the AL East.”
That’s an odd thing to say. This season he’s hitting 3 out of the 4 AL East team fairly well: .333 against the Sox; .314 against the O’s; .273 against the Rays.
He hasn’t hit the Jays at all this season: 0.50 BA.
Fausto Carmona will be far more expensive than Haren IMHO.
Uncle Bret-
I don’t know about that, but I’m sure the Indians would be reluctant to take back Joba, while worrying how he’d perform during midge season.
If you’re ERA+ is 98 you’re not a top pitcher.
Rich-
Please stop focusing on just one season. There doesn’t seem to be a trend in place.
Yankee Trader July 23rd, 2010 at 10:30 am
I don?t know about that, but I?m sure the Indians would be reluctant to take back Joba, while worrying how he?d perform during midge season.
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You can actually blame some of that on the Yankees trainer who did not have adequate midge knowledge. The trainer came out and sprayed Joba with bug spray as Joba sweated like a pig on the mound.
Midges are attracted to two things. Bug spray and sweat.
The Cleveland staff knew this.
No thanks on Haren. The Yankees seem to be doing their due diligence on him, but I’d be shocked if Cash pulled the trigger on that deal.
MTU – i know a few people that have been waiting for this decline from haren ever since he left oakland. none of his numbers that i would normally point to are that different this year from the last 2 seasons. he is just getting shelled and not fooling anyone anymore. he has always, ALWAYS been a first half pitcher too, so that doesn’t bode well for the rest of this year.
Yankee Trader July 23rd, 2010 at 10:30 am
Fausto Carmona will be far more expensive than Haren IMHO.
Uncle Bret-
I don’t know about that, but I’m sure the Indians would be reluctant to take back Joba, while worrying how he’d perform during midge season.
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I agree. The Yankees could be linked to Haren because AZ has approached the Yankees about Joba. I can’t see the Indians doing the same.
What would the Indians want from us?
They pretty much need everything it seems, except catcher.
Maybe we could agree to take on Peralta with Carmona.
MTU-
“He is about 30.”
So is Myers and Carmona is 26. Listen, I will be happy if the Yankees can add a significant upgrade to their bullpen. Putting Mitre in the starting rotation for the month only weakens the bulpen, and as much as I shake my head with the oft bad Joba debacle, there is no replacement for him, and I wouldn’t want Aaron Heilman thrown in to facilitate a trade for Haren.
Erica
I thought I was getting a real cookie. :s
# Erica in NY July 23rd, 2010 at 10:26 am
The Yankees were also much different
There was ownership chaos and it seemed that multiple people were running the team and trying to perform the same functions. And an outstead manager. The Yankees put themselves in a position were they appeared they could be manipulated since there was an obvious lack of unity
———–
Not to mention Sabathia is also recruiting his buddy Cliff Lee to join the fun this offseason.
Let’s see…
1.) He’s on the best team
2.) He’s the highest paid pitcher in the game
3.) The economy and ownership is quite different now than it was when A-Rod opted out
4.) Boras doesn’t represent him
5.) One of his best buddies, Cliff Lee, is almost certain to sign with the Yanks in the offseason
I’m sure there are plenty more reasons why but this doesn’t sound like someone who is going to opt out of his contract.
ID-
You are thr first person to at least make a somewhat believeable argument for why we shouldn’t get him.
Most everyone else seems to point to just this season.
If you or are others (including the Yankees) think there is a declination trend in place then I certainly would have to agree with you.
For the moment I am not completely persuaded of that.
Arod actually hit #600 last night.
Remember a few years back he hit one that smacked off the railing of a staircase that led to the bleachers in the old stadium. The umps missed it. He got a double.
Imagine he ends his career stuck at 761?
BTW, Alex has 1,202 games remaining on his contract and needs 163 HR’s to tie Barry Bonds. That’s 1 HR for every 7.37 games.
He’s hit 599 HR’s in 2,254 games. that’s 1 HR for every 3.76 games.
This season he’s hit 1 HR every 5.5 games.
“I can?t see Sabathia opting out of his current deal. He?s never going to get that kind of cheddar anywhere else.”
CC also seems to be very happy being a Yankee. I don’t think he’d opt out even if there was more money to be had.
Ross,
You are correct. I was typing fast and didn’t check it before I hit send.
YT-
I think D-Rob can and should fill the EIG role if JC were to depart the scene.
# Giuseppe Franco July 23rd, 2010 at 10:37 am
# Erica in NY July 23rd, 2010 at 10:26 am
The Yankees were also much different
There was ownership chaos and it seemed that multiple people were running the team and trying to perform the same functions. And an outstead manager. The Yankees put themselves in a position were they appeared they could be manipulated since there was an obvious lack of unity
———–
Not to mention Sabathia is also recruiting his buddy Cliff Lee to join the fun this offseason.
Let’s see…
1.) He’s on the best team
2.) He’s the highest paid pitcher in the game
3.) The economy and ownership is quite different now than it was when A-Rod opted out
4.) Boras doesn’t represent him
5.) One of his best buddies, Cliff Lee, is almost certain to sign with the Yanks in the offseason
I’m sure there are plenty more reasons why but this doesn’t sound like someone who is going to opt out of his contract.
___________________
6.) He gets to star in Subway commercials.
YT-
There is no way I want Myers anywhere near a Yankee uniform with his history.
I do not know that Carmona is even being offered. Do you ?
I don’t see CC opting out. And I don’t think he would get more money anywhere else.
I don’t forsee the Yanks getting Josh Hamilton, but if they did he would bat 3rd IMO.
SS Derek Jeter
RF Nick Swisher
CF Josh Hamilton
3B Alex Rodriguez
2B Robinson Cano
1B Mark Teixeira
C/DH Jorge Posada
DH/C Jesus Montero
LF Brett Gardner
MTU-
Totally agree on Robertson earning the job of EIG.
However who pitches in relief in the 6th or seventh inning with men on base?
Park? Gaudin? Moseley? Dejo?
Bret-
Where did you get the info that the Diamondbacks want Joba included in any deal for Haren?
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [July 23 at 9:34am CST]
The D’Backs have started exchanging names with teams about possible Dan Haren trades and the Tigers, Yankees, Phillies, Cardinals and Twins appear to have varying degrees of interest in the righty. That’s just the abbreviated version of what we heard yesterday, but there’s more. The D’Backs’ asking price? High-quality major league-ready pitching.
So let me get this straight.
They wan’t to trade a declining pitcher for high quality major league pitching.
Doesn’t get any better.
I would not trade for any pitcher unless it is a stud like greinke,etc….
Keep our prospects & sign lee next year.
The only upside with trading for a pitcher like greinke is it won’t cost as much if we land an under team controlled pitcher.
That is why if i am cash i put a nice package of montero,joba & a few others together & at least try for a young stud pitcher wich could save us from giving lee the moon next year.
Looking at Haren and Carmona.
Carmona has more upside but is far more volatile.
Carmona only pitched in approx. 120 innings in 2008 and 2009.
He’s in foreign territory this year.
Haren on the other hand is working on his 6th straight 200+ inning season.
He’s healthy, provides length, knows how to pitch, gives up lots of HR’s.
He’s basically Javy Vazquez minus the questions about mental toughness.
Maybe the Snakes noticed that Joba was throwing 98 in the desert heat when the Yanks were out there a few weeks ago and they liked what they saw. Kennedy has turned out fairly well for them….serviceable at least and Joba is much more talented than him.
Not saying I would make a trade for Haren or anything just making an observation.
YT-
We piece that together. Our starters have been going deep all season. Maybe Mitre ?
We also have potential backfill in the minors.
I don’t see that as nearly as critical as stabilizing the bridge to mo.
MTU-
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [July 22, 2010 at 2:38pm CST]
The starting pitching market may be ‘mediocre’ if you ask officials around the major leagues, as ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark did, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t tons of rumors out there with just over a week before the deadline. Here they are:
•Six teams or more are interested in Ted Lilly, who will almost certainly get traded. The Tigers, Mets and Dodgers have interest, but the Yankees probably won’t be involved. The Cubs are not willing to pick up any of Lilly’s salary and probably won’t have to.
•The A’s, on the other hand, will pick up much of the $4MM or so remaining on Ben Sheets’ salary and are ready to deal him.
•The Indians are willing to deal one of Jake Westbrook or Fausto Carmona for a “compelling” package, but not both.
•They’re also growing more and more confident that they’ll be able to trade Kerry Wood. If they don’t strike a deal before the deadline, they could do so after Wood clears waivers in August.
•The Yankees are kicking tires on many starters, including Westbrook and Dan Haren.
I am drawing a blank- has Haren ever pitched in the playoffs?
I remember him always playing on semi-lousy teams.
I think CC is going to be the highest paid pitcher in baseball throughout his entire contract.
Alex might get passed by Pujols but no one else
The $$$ are different in this economy, but also the thinking is different and much more clear-headed. Teams, including the Yankees will be trying to quantify the level of upgrade and cost of that upgrade that free agents actually represent.
It’s why Gardner has made Carl Crawford, a damn good player a lot less desirable. Crawford is better than Gardner, but not $ 12-15 Million a year better.
Haren makes no sense to me. He has at least $ 29 Million coming to him after this season. Oswalt, by comparison is a bargain.
Blake-
It appears the Snakes are shopping Haren.
We have competition for his services assuming we are in on him.
Cash has to explore the trade. probe AZ. to see who they might want in return.
Az. will compare what we offer with what they can get from the others.
In the end, if the our pieces are the best for their particular needs we get Haren. If the price is exhorbinant Cash walks. No biggie.
Actually I think our odds are pretty good. we have some very nice trade chips to offer.
Yankee Trader July 23rd, 2010 at 10:45 am
Bret-
Where did you get the info that the Diamondbacks want Joba included in any deal for Haren?
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Mostly intuition based on a number of things…
That “Lost” guy mentioned Joba’s name. He added that the Yankees would consider it but would probably not include Joba. The way he phrased it sounded like the Yankees were approached by AZ and not the other way around.
That was yesterday.
Now, according to reports AZ is actively shopping Haren and exchanging names with teams which confirms the notion they’re the ones who approached the Yankees.
SJ44 yesterday confirmed that Arizona was being aggressive shopping Haren and surprised by it.
Plus, AZ was bullish on similar pitchers to Joba with similar weakness and questions about them.
Edwin Jackson and Ian Kennedy both bottomed out, have been wildly erratic but also showed enough success in the past to warrant the gamble.
YT-
Thanks. I hadn’t seen that.
Carmona plus Peralta for the right package would also be appealing, and I think you mentioned that earlier.
What does seem clear, at least to me, is that the Yanks have shifted their focus a bit looking more for available starters than relievers.
Could be wrong but that’s what I’m seeing.
joba is what we’ve got for the eig …until you find a replacement you can’t deal him…those 2 infield hits last nite were not his fault…stop the frenzy
The more I think about it the more I think that if the Yankees are going to make any major move at all that it will be Haren.
By that I mean I don’t see them messing around with Carmona or Oswalt or anything like that.
As for Brian saying he’s not in on any big deals and doesn’t anticipate any, well remember what happened when the Lee deal leaked?
Erica, in 2004 he pitched in 5 playoff games out of the ‘pen for STL. And he had 2 starts for the A’s in 2006.
Erica-
He pitched in 2004 for St. Louis and 2006 for Oakland.
St Louis as a reliever, appearing in 5 games with a 2.16 ERA and started 2 games for Oakland, winning one with a 4.09 ERA in 2006.
bret-
That was spot on.
The Yankees need vary little and are not likely to chace any more big fish until the off season.
Cliff Lee was an exception.
MTU -
I think what Brian’s looking at is that the market for relief pitchers is pretty poor, the prices are high and those guys are really unpredictable.
If he gets Dan Haren then in the playoffs the Yankees can fix their pen issues by pitching Hughes in relief.
Mick,
Maybe the Yankees are working on a Romine package for Soria?
Soria is a nice replacement for Joba
Bret-
perhaps our friend has been talking to YOU.
Chip-
Bingo. Give that man a prize.
Bret The Hitman July 23rd, 2010 at 11:01 am
Mick,
Maybe the Yankees are working on a Romine package for Soria?
Soria is a nice replacement for Joba
**************
When you sleep at night, do you dream about Soria?
Bret-
You’re getting even greedier than me now.
restrain yourself.
Yankee Trader & Tom in NJ-
Thank you. I remembered him being on Oakland and he usually made the Yankees look silly. I wasn’t sure what came after or if those Oakland teams were playoff calliber
MTU-
I think it will be easier for them to acquire a starter before the deadline, and no I never have entertained a package including Peralta and Carmona in a deal, although it’s been rumored that the righty bench help could include players who can play 3rd such as Peralta, Helms or Cantu.
Erica-
When YOU sleep at night do you dream about Vegas ?
MTU July 23rd, 2010 at 11:01 am
Bret-
perhaps our friend has been talking to YOU.
*********
Like I said, I don’t regret running with his inside info. on Holliday.
Considering I still believe he’s legit, I suspect this Haren thing involving Joba has legs.
As far as Carmona goes though – I don’t see the Tribe moving him…he’s getting paid a very reasonable amount and has some pretty affordable options.
My take on Curtis Granderson: he might be putting up Tony Womack-like numbers, but unlike Womack he cares and he is trying.
I’m sure it’s eating him up being the auto-out in the lineup. He’s fought hard to be where he’s at, and he’ll keep fighting. It’s still too early to give up on him.
The problem is going to be hughes innings.
He is already at 106 innings.
They are not going to abuse him.
Bret-
I was only yanking your chain on Lost.
Bret-
You’re dreaming- must be that someone has implanted an idea in your head while dreaming that the Yankees would get Soria. Go see the movie Inception, you’ll probably like it!!!! LOL
MTU July 23rd, 2010 at 11:04 am
Erica-
When YOU sleep at night do you dream about Vegas ?
***************
Sometimes
But not necessarily Vegas-
I can’t believe I am admitting this, but I dream of slot machines at least once a week.
When I go to Ac I always try to play the machines I have been dreaming about
Haren is a good pitcher, but he is a far cry from Lee. In my opinion, Oswalt is better, but if he requires teams to pick up his 2012 option, that would kill a deal.
While Joba has been far from successful this year as the EIG, I don’t think the Yankees are ready to ship him out and replace him with Robertson. That makes the shaky bullpen shorter and shakier.
Bret-
My take on him is that he needs to be more like Jack Webb in “Dragnet” and stick to the “facts” and only the “facts”.
MTU,
The timing of his appearance yesterday was unusual.
It seems when he catches onto something juicy…he drops it here in passing.
He doesn’t push it.
He just suggests it and leaves.
Joba is not the same guy that he was in 2007 and 2008.
Back then he threw 98-100mph and never nibbled.
Now he throws 93-95mph and trys to keep the ball away.
I’m starting to believe he would do better on a team that does not play under such bright lights.
He is still vary young and could become a good starting pitcher on some other team.
Joachinception: The dream is real.
Erica-
I really like you. You know that. But you are showing early warning signs of Dosteyevsky syndrome.
You better hit lotto now.
Yankee Trader July 23rd, 2010 at 11:07 am
Bret-
You’re dreaming- must be that someone has implanted an idea in your head while dreaming that the Yankees would get Soria. Go see the movie Inception, you’ll probably like it!!!! LOL
*******
The Royals very recently said, nobody’s untouchable on that team.
The Royals desperately need a franchise catcher.
The Yankees have an offensive one (Montero) to go with a defensive one (Cervelli).
It’s impossible for the Royals to find a top catching prospect who is expendable.
Joba Chamberlain, Chad Gaudin, Mark Melancon, Dustin Mosely Reegie Corona, Juan Miranda, and Greg Golson can be expendable. Some will draw interest and all are on the 40-man roster.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p?c_id=nyy
MTU July 23rd, 2010 at 11:11 am
Erica-
I really like you. You know that. But you are showing early warning signs of Dosteyevsky syndrome.
You better hit lotto now.
*************
I’ll buy lotto tickets at lunch today. I have been saying for years that winning the lottery is a long term goal of mine.
New thread
)
A-Rod and the Royals
(This sounds like a love story
Bret-
Take him as you wish. you’re right he doesn’t act authoritarian by any means.
I just prefer less spec and more hard info. right now myself.
Perhaps he will offer that if he can.
But why can’t Joba be that guy again? His velocity is usually good. He often gets ahead on batters…..and then gets behind a lot of the time, throwing off the plate stuff no one will swing at. It is so obvious to all of us, why can’t he see that? The talent is still there.
D-rob really has done great these last few games, coming into a tense situation and getting out of it. I think Jeet’s nickname of Houdini fits him well…hopefully he continues this trend.
MTU,
Yea I think the Yanks definitly have the pieces to get Haren if they wanted.
I’m just not a big Haren guy. I think he’s a good pitcher but probably a Lackey type guy on a good team. Stuff wise he’s just not dominating and I think his numbers are a big inflated by spending his entire career out west. I think he’s a middle of the rotation guy in the AL east that would be paid like an elite starter….however the Yankees can afford to overpay for that if they chose to.
Personay I’d rather try to talk Andy into coming back on another one year deal but if they knew he was retiring then Haren would be a good #3 next season.
Love this time of year and much prefer trade talks (even if they are ridiculous) to trolls, imposters, etc….:)
Bret-
If you are suggesting the Yankees trade Montero for Soria who would now be an EIG until Mo retires, my answer is NO. Now if Josh Johnson were made available, I’d reconsider, but given the fact that I hope Montero becomes the next Mauer playing for the Yankees, I’d be disappointed as I’m really excited to see him be a Yankee, preferably at catcher.
Kate-
Anything is possible I guess.
For my part Joba’s issues stem from inconsistent mechanics which leads to him being unable to repeat his delivery.
Speaking for myself, I do not believe this can be fixed this season especially in the heat of a pennant race.
I think he needs to be totally re-worked ala roy halladay.
For me, that can only be accomplished in the Minors or in the off season.
They are not going to send Joba down so that just leaves the off season.
I am just not sure he will be here for that.
The way we see him and the way the Yankees may view him may be 2 very different things.
He is high maintenance and I think the Yanks don’t like those types of players.
Perhaps a change of scenery would be best ?
We’ll see what happens. I have always supported him.
Yankee Trader,
Going back to my previous post regarding Soria, I said “Romine package”
I think the Yankees could go with an offense/defense catching tandom of Montero + Cervelli.
Romine is expendable.
Blake-
You and I usually project a similar wavelength.
Be kind to the critters.
CountryClub July 23rd, 2010 at 10:39 am
Ross,
You are correct. I was typing fast and didn?t check it before I hit send.
…………………………………………………………………..
No problem….I make more than you would believe!