Posada returns at DH
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 28, 2010 
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Not sure why I’ve had such trouble posting the lineup today. A signal is tough to come by in the clubhouse, but I’ve found one in the dugout. So here it is, most of the regulars with Jorge Posada at DH.
Derek Jeter SS
Nick Swisher RF
Mark Teixeira 1B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Robinson Cano 2B
Jorge Posada DH
Curtis Granderson CF
Francisco Cervelli C
Brett Gardner LF
I won!!
I think there will be a lot of GTLU winners today
Well, if you won, I won! Yay!!
repost:
Erica-
Are you out there?? The Tigers are decimated by injuries to Ordonez, Inge, Guillen and Zumaya. Any chances that Damon might get traded back to the Yankees by Saturday or be picked up thru waivers in August? has a full NTC.
Lineup during the playoffs:
Jeter SS
Damon DH
Tex 1B
A-Rod 3B
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Posada C
Granderson CF
Gardner LF
Well, if you won, I won too! Yay!!
This is from a chat that Tim Dierkes did a little while ago. Obviously Jesus for Dunn is a big fat NO. And a package with Gardner as the center piece is also a no for me. But Joba for Dunn? I would probably do that.
[Comment From CraigCraig: ]
Doesnt Adam Dunn to Yankees make too much sense?
Wednesday July 28, 2010 2:01 Craig
2:01 Sure does. Montero or Joba gets it done, but otherwise they might need Gardner in there (loved Mike Axisa’s top 5 yanks trade chips post over at riveraveblues.com).
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/......html#more
Congratulations, Erin!
VICTORY!!!!
-Johnny Drama
Giuseppe Franco July 28th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Unreal.
Keep worrying about the team that’s 8 games back in the loss column and is notorious for fading in the second half.
______________________________________
I’d watch what you say. I’d love to be able to bury the Sox too. However, there is still plenty of time left in the season.
Say they’re 5 GB on Sept. 1, their rotation is firing on all cylinders and everyone gets healthy, they could easily get hot and win this division.
congrats all you winners…I think my line up made more sense…grumble grumble!
Congratulations to the following winners of today’s Guess The Line Up!
Erica
Erin
justinxdance27
bisonthrow
Patrick from CT
Fran (the original)
Warning Track Power
RayVT
ML
Chuck58
yankswin27
unknown
CT23
CC-
That was a good article on the value of each of our top 5 trade chips.
Dunn for Joba. Id do in a hearbeat, even though Dunn doesn’t want to DH.
he’d at least make the postseason and get his first chance at a WS ring.
Say they’re 5 GB on Sept. 1, their rotation is firing on all cylinders and everyone gets healthy, they could easily get hot and win this division.
—————————–
So you’re saying to worry about them over a hypothetical scenario rather than the team that’s 2GB and still playing very well in real life?
“# Tyler July 28th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Nick-
Tim Beckham could still become a superstar but I am so happy that the Rays did not add Posey. Adding him to that young stable would have been absolutely deadly.
”
Posey is a stud. You’re right though, he would have filled that void at Catcher perfectly for the Rays. I know a lot of FSU/Rays(he played at FSU) fans that were really hoping that he was going to get drafted by the Rays
upstate kate July 28th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
congrats all you winners?I think my line up made more sense?grumble grumble!
***********************
kate, if it makes you feel any better when I saw your lineup and explanation I was like “that makes sense-I probably should have done that!”
If they are five out on September 1, they aren’t winning the division.
The chances the Yankees and Tampa both collapse is slim.
The Red Sox will be happy if they can get the WC.
GF is right though. The obsession some have with the Red Sox on here borders on comical at times.
Its never going to change though because some folks just like being worried about the Red Sox.
Yankee Trader,
Dunn would be the true definition of a rental, because he wouldnt come back to NY as a DH after this season. But I agree with your point, he’d play his ass off to get the ring while he was here. At least I would hope he would. It would be pretty sad if he sulked. He’s going to get his money in the off season regardless. And the Yanks would get the Type A picks for him when he walked.
why does any other team in baseball want Joba when he’s pitching terrible?
he’s our problem now, until he needs a new contract.
CountryClub-
The White Sox are currently offering more so just Joba won’t get a deal done IMHO.
Doreen-This is the best thing that has happened to me all day, LOL!!!
Pat M. July 28th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Napoli is a dangerous hitter……
Irreverent Discourse July 28th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
yeah napoli is far from a bad batter. he has the lowest HR/AB of any catcher in the last 3 or 4 years
******
I agree that this year he’s been a regular and is an above average catcher (his batting average is still .250 which is kind of low) but in the past he’s been platooning. Still if you check out his stats against the yankees since he’s been in the league he’s still tearing it up at a higher clip than just about every other team he faces
They want Joba because he’s 24 and still has great stuff. It’s the same reason why the yanks don;t want to trade him. The potential is still there big time. But it’s a real fine line. this time next yr, if Joba is still struggling, his value will tank. Right now, it’s still high in most teams eyes.
It’s funny how the Angels can stand up and act like men against the Yankees but when they face the Sox they cave.
I don’t care about the Sox but it is funny seeing the Angels lose time and time again to the Red Sox.
Warning Track Power -
I’m sorry to hear that.
I can’t believe they actually scored some runs off of Beckett.
napoli only platooned because scoscia is insane, and values a .230 hitting defensive catcher in his lineup over a .280 mashing catcher.
ID,
I do think there are GM’s out there who think taking Joba out of NYC will calm him down and get him to focus on his craft more.
He rose too quickly here and he wasn’t capable of keeping himself at the level he burst onto the scene at.
In another organization, he gets a fresh start and he has name recognition so fans can buy into him.
That said, I want to see him sent down to the minors to rebuild himself before we deal him, but I fear Cashman and Girardi will never do that, so it might be best to trade him as trying to fix him at this level isn’t working.
That’s more a failure of the front office than anything as they have options for a few more weeks to do that.
I understand why they keep him up at this level, but I don’t agree with it.
It’s like driving a Ferrari with bald tires that’s in need of an oil change.
Can you still use it? Yes. Is it still a Ferrari? Yes. But does it need work and improvements to function at it’s best? Absolutely.
Joba still throws in the mid 90′s and has talent. He’s just wasting it until someone can help him harness it again.
Hanging out in the Yankee bullpen with Mo and Mike Harkey aren’t helping him.
They should import a pitching mechanics coach and assign him to Joba to work with him in the minors until he’s back on track.
joba at 24 for a 2 month rental who strikes out a ton.
you guys are certifiable….
fans here fall in and out of love with players in a blink of the eye…
thank g-d cashman does not read the posts here…
If I refused to include Joba in a deal for Dan Haren then I’m not sure I’d include him for a couple months of Adam Dunn (most of which he’ll be adjusting to a new league and pitchers he hasn’t faced). JMO
napoli only platooned because scoscia is insane, and values a .230 hitting defensive catcher in his lineup over a .280 mashing catcher
****
Jeff Mathis on the other hand – has terrible stats against the yankees – i don’t remember was it him or napoli that the yankees couldn’t get out in the ALCS last year?
g. love – i agree, he needs to be sent down and start for an entire season in AAA.
G. Love-
Someone posted this morning that Jonathan Albaladejo pitched 1-2/3 inning and threw 30+ pitches last night at SWB for a save. Prior to that he’d only pitched one inning at a time. Perhaps after seeing what he did here, they want to see if they can get him to go 1-plus innings reliably. They may have just enough time to do that AND make a decision to bring him up and send Joba down.
Just a thought.
Mathis hit 5 doubles in the ALCS against us and drove in the GW run in game 3.
GLove…..You can lead a horse to water etc……
Joba needs to grow up and stop acting like the Yankees owe him something. The guy needs to start taking his craft seriously.
I would like to see him go down to the minors because he serves no purpose on this team right now. He is so bad that if I was GM I would only give up a bag of balls for him.
I don’t think Joba should be at AAA. I think Joba should be where the competition is secondary and the development is primary, at least at first. If that’s in their plans, that is.
He’s not a starting pitcher so, sending him to AAA for a year to start isn’t happening.
Especially since he is arbitration eligible after this year.
His future, whereever it may be, is most likely pitching out of the bullpen.
Maybe Pat M knows scouts who see him as a starter but, none of the scouts I know see him as a starting pitcher. Not now and not in the future.
It really comes down to what you think of Joba. yes, he’s 24 and has loads of talent. But he hasnt been the same pitcher for a while now. Obviously, you don’t trade the Joba we saw in 2007 for a rental. But what if the real Joba is the one we see now? This Joba isnt getting you anything if he continues to struggle. Some people would call moving him now selling low and some would call it selling high. It really isnt as black and white as some of you make it out to be.
Joba isnt getting sent to the minors. But if he is, it has to be done by the 1st week of August. At that point the Yanks can’t send him down without him clearing waivers. And he won’t clear.
Also plenty of guys have a lot of potential and talent but many of them fail to use it.
Joba might go down as a failure like many other young players.
Yankee Trader July 28th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
Erica-
Are you out there?? The Tigers are decimated by injuries to Ordonez, Inge, Guillen and Zumaya. Any chances that Damon might get traded back to the Yankees by Saturday or be picked up thru waivers in August? has a full NTC.
********
That sounds like a winner to me
I curse the Tigers every day. I think its time they dismantle
Okay.. off to the pharmacy now
# YankeeBlue222 July 28th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
I’d watch what you say. I’d love to be able to bury the Sox too. However, there is still plenty of time left in the season.
Say they’re 5 GB on Sept. 1, their rotation is firing on all cylinders and everyone gets healthy, they could easily get hot and win this division.
———
Why should I watch what I say? You should be more focused on TB, which is 2 games back in the loss column, rather than the team that’s 8 games back in the loss column.
You’re speaking hypothetically and that rotation hasn’t clicked on all cylinders all season. What makes you think it’s going to happen on Sept 1st?
I’ll bet you the Yanks finish with a better record than the Red Sox starting today until the end of the regular season. Wanna take that bet?
I’m not afraid of the Red Sox. I couldn’t care less about them and I don’t watch their games unless the Yanks are playing them.
With or without their injuries, the Red Sox are not as good as the Yanks this season.
SJ44 -
Wasn’t Joba “re-worked” to begin with?
What is the reasoning behind thinking he can’t be re-worked, and I mean from absolute scratch, again?
I understand that some of the thinking is even if his mechanics are addressed, his pitching “IQ” isn’t what it needs to be. But, you can’t ignore the fact that he has had some very impressive starts in his career, even as recently as last year after the ASB.
I feel like there’s a missing piece to this puzzle…
Jeremy,
I felt like you before. Now, I don’t think Joba knows how to fix himself. If he did, he would. He’s losing MILLIONS of dollars with this performance and running himself out of being a NY Yankee.
At first I thought he was being stubborn and thought he knew best.
Now I don’t think he has a clue what he’s doing when he goes out there. He’s lost his handle on it. You can see it in his face when he’s on the mound. Even with bases empty he looks like the world is about to crumble.
That’s why he keeps walking the first batter he faces.
I’m mad at him. He let himself get to this level by losing his grip on his talent.
That said, I don’t think we can snap our fingers and make him “get it”.
He needs to be rebuilt and taught how to pitch again. He doesn’t know how to throw his slider anymore and his fastball has no consistency whatsoever.
Any other team in this league sends him down to work on things, but he’s still here because he’s “Joba”.
It’s a mistake. Cashman and Girardi should know better.
SJ44 – he’s not a major league pitcher, period. he is whatever we develop him as since he was never afforded that opportunity.
there is no reason he can’t learn how to pitch as a starter in AAA.
G. Love,
I absolutely agree. They should send him all the way to A-ball and rebuild him.
It happened to Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay, and look what the end result was? I’m not saying that it will definitely work, but Joba has that type of potential.
People seem to forget how dominant he was (as a starter) post-shoulder injury in 2008. Remember that start at Fenway?
Joba’s best value is as a SP. If he can’t cut it as that in the minors, then yes, time to convert him to a full-time reliever.
Doreen
You make a great point. But the fact is that Joba is getting worse not better. Can someone please explain why having Joba up in the majors helps the team and himself ?
NYYrumors #Yankees giving teams long lists of who they won’t trade means whole sport is protecting prospects…McAllister untouchable???
1 minute ago via web
That’s the whole thing with Joba and its probably what the Yankees are wrestling with right now.
When people say he still has “great stuff”, that’s not true.
He has no fastball command whatsoever and hasn’t had it in over a year.
His fastball velocity also varies. Most times, it sits around 92 with no late movement. That’s not “great stuff”.
His slider? Go back and look at his slider from 2007 and watch the tilt and how tight it was.
Now? Its more of a “spinner” than slider and its never in the strikezone. Which is why hitters lay off of it.
For whatever reason, and the LAST thing I want to do is have another “What’s Wrong With Joba” post, he’s not close to the pitcher he once was.
Can he be “fixed”? No idea.
However, while he is only 24, this is his fourth year in the majors. He’s close to not being “kid” anymore from that standpoint.
If the Yankees do keep him, I would strongly suggest Joba spend the winter in Arizona at API and try to get in the condition he was 3 years ago.
That would be a positive first step.
SJ, The guys who I spoke with all see him a releiver and always have……In fact his name came up last night……Some think it’s a maturity, some think it’s stubborness…..Bottom line is that there are organizations that feel that the Yankee front office is exhausted with him……..You can only hope that he can get into a groove for the next 3 months…..
bret – i’m sure if someone cares, they’ve already started following you on twitter…
According to Sherman, the Yanks arent sending him to the minors because he works too hard at trying to get better. That goes against what a lot of people on here think. But the Yanks say he is a very hard worker and they think sending him down would seem like a punishment to him.
CC – that’d be the first anyone has heard of that that I know of…
I’m not sure it’s a good reason, but at least it’s feasible.
Jeremy,
How on earth do you know that “Joba doesn’t take his craft seriously.”???
Do you think he’s oblivious to his struggles???
According to Joel Sherman, who supposedly has good sources within the organization, believes that Joba is indeed a hard worker. You have no idea what this guy does when the camera isn’t on him.
It’s never a good idea for fans eating pizza and drinking beer on their living room sofa to question the heart and/or dedication of a professional athlete.
CC,
I see your point. I would argue that the Yankees are making the playoffs with or without Dunn so virtually you’d trading Joba for what Dunn could provide in the postseason. If the Yanks made the WS, Dunn would be a pinch hitter for 4 of those games. I just don’t see it being worth it and I’m one who has no problem trading Joba for the right deal.
“I feel like there’s a missing piece to this puzzle…”
Doreen- the missing piece seems to be between his ears!!
What about letting him pitch to one batter, then two per outing?
Simplifying the game for him may help Joba develop and build to get through an entire inning.
There’s no replacement for Joba.
I think the Yankees hoped that working out of the bullpen this season would afford Joba the opportunity to really hone in on what makes him tick. But G. Love is right; he’s lost the handle on who he is; what his talent is.
If they trade him, it feels like a waste.
Isn’t someone who had four plus pitches worth trying to salvage? If it works, what have they lost? If it doesn’t work, same question? Seems like they have more to gain by trying – really trying, without the pressure of winning and losing – to get him right. If it doesn’t work, so be it. At least they will have made the effort.
But if they can get him to be the pitcher that they thought he was – man, that would be incredible!
Who thought Cliff Lee would be the pitcher he is now? I remember when he wasn’t all that. I don’t remember Halliday, so I can’t discuss him.
Country Club,
I read that too. It’s ludicrous thinking. Let him blow his career at this level and lose games for us because he tries and his ego can’t take the hit that he needs to take a break and figure out how to pitch again?
It’s just dumb.
And the Yankees are doing this right before our eyes. They are keeping him on the roster and not helping their property get himself better.
I really don’t think Joba has a clue how to get himself back on track.
He needs someone to show him the way and focus him on his craft.
The Yankees protecting him by keeping him up and hoping he just snaps out of it is a misuse of a potential resource for the team.
G. Love
You make a great point !
The thing I don’t get is how Joba went downhill so fast after that injury in Texas.
CountryClub July 28th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
According to Sherman, the Yanks arent sending him to the minors because he works too hard at trying to get better. That goes against what a lot of people on here think. But the Yanks say he is a very hard worker and they think sending him down would seem like a punishment to him.
________________________
Well in that case, it would be punishment to DFA Chan Ho.
Irreverent Discourse July 28th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
bret – i’m sure if someone cares, they’ve already started following you on twitter…
**********
You can’t stop the hype machine.
Actually , the fake rumors seem to be just as relevant as the real ones.
And generally more entertaining.
If Joba is spiralling out of control and Hughes is the answer come playoff time , is it fair to think he can switch from starter to reliever under playoff stress?
Here is the actual paragraph from the Sherman article:
What is not possible, at least for now, is sending Chamberlain to the minors for two major reasons: 1) The Yanks feel it would be a terrible message to bust somebody from main set-up man all the way to Scranton in one move, so they will try to fix him outside the eighth inning and 2) They do not believe Chamberlain is failing because of an attitude problem. Yankee officials actually consider Chamberlain a hard worker. In other words they are not looking at this how they viewed a situation with Melky Cabrera in 2008. That season the Yanks thought Cabrera had become lazy and that was a factor in his struggles, so they did demote him in mid-August to Triple-A.
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....CS2bzxyDTJ
The Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee comparisons aren’t valid.
Those guys went to A Ball and completely remade themselves.
They changed their arm slots, mechanics, even the pitches they throw.
That’s not going to happen with Joba.
They aren’t going to turn him into a 3/4 arm slot kid, add a cutter and changeup, and scrap the slider, as what happened with Doc.
Why can’t he be a starting pitcher? For one, a lot of baseball people feel his mechanics, especially when he was effective, are so violent, the chances of him developing arm problems is high.
Yes, he had three good starts after the ASB last year. However, most of his starts weren’t good and its not always the Yankees fault.
For Joba to be effective, he has to have a plus fastball and a plus, plus slider. That’s his meal ticket.
That screams closer. Two pitches like that, 70-80 innings a year, and Joba has the chance to be a beast.
That’s how the D’Backs saw him when they wanted him in the Haren deal. That’s how many of the scouts I know see him.
To accomplish that however, its not going to take a trip to the minors. Its going to take him re-conditioning himself in the off-season, and working toward being able to repeat his mechanics effectively.
At this point, there is a month to go in the minor league season. Sending him to the minors is a waste of time. Which is why the Yankees aren’t going to do it.
He’s not a bad kid. He’s a kid who suffered from the “Too much hype, too much success, and too little accountability” syndrome that happens a lot with young players.
Perhaps a change of scenery would do him good. Or, perhaps he uses this off-season to get it back together.
Whichever way it goes, its going to be interesting to see if he can get back to what he was. He is nowhere close to being that pitcher at this point in time.
G. Love,
I don’t disagree with you. I see the team’s point, but I see yours too. The fact remains, if they want to send him down, it has to be done within the next 10 days.
RAB suggests Gardner as a top 5 Yankee trade chip and the pundits rave 1 day after Bret The Hitman suggests a scenario with Gardner being traded and gets dog piled.
Good thing I’m a member of the media now.
Giuseppe Franco
Joba could be a hard worker. But I don’t see it.
The guy doesn’t keep himself in the best of shape. When he blows up on the mound he always makes excuses saying that “you have to tip your cap to the other team”.
Blake-
If Dunn helps the Yankees win the 3 straight games in YS he’ll have been worth it, much like Matsui who had to sit out the NL games. Dunn would still be available to pinch hit, plus he knows the NL pitchers.
Perhaps a change of scenery would do him good. Or, perhaps he uses this off-season to get it back together
=========================
Didn’t he have the opportunity to get back in shape over this past winter?
Why we would he suddenly do so now?
It’s all in the presentation.
It’s not a punishment if you let him know why and what is going to be done. Let him know it cannot possibly be done at the ML level. Let him know they’re doing this because he’s valued in the organization and recognize he’s been working hard, but whatever he’s doing here isn’t working – can’t work with the distraction of having to perform.
I have no doubt he’s been working hard and trying. Sometimes you need to start from scratch. I know I’ve posted this before, but the look on Joba’s face after he gave up that homerun the other night – man, a picture is worth a thousand words. His confidence is shot. So, in that sense, yeah, between the ears, but not in the sense that he’s stupid.
Special talent sometimes requires special handling. This has not gone the way the Yankees or Joba had believed it would. Both parties have to be extremely sad about this, but they have to move beyond that and do something positive.
Or give up and let someone else do it.
# CountryClub July 28th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
According to Sherman, the Yanks arent sending him to the minors because he works too hard at trying to get better. That goes against what a lot of people on here think. But the Yanks say he is a very hard worker and they think sending him down would seem like a punishment to him.
———-
But that’s just it. Seems like the majority of fans would prefer to punish Joba rather than take the time to fix him.
We are all disappointed in his performance this season – none more than Joba himself, I’m sure.
I would imagine the guy has some pride. Nobody wants to go out there time and time again and get their brains beat in.
The Yanks would be crazy to trade Gardner, he’s going to let them avoid paying for Crawford and get Lee.
Joba isn’t a bad kid and works at his craft. He’s not an, “I don’t care” kind of guy.
Don’t get caught up in the cliche post-game remarks. They are meaningless.
Some of his problems stem from stubborness.
I remember once last year, they held about a 30 minute meeting with him about shaking off catchers too much. They told him to cool it, trust his catchers, focus and just throw the pitch called.
He said ok.
First pitch of the game, he shakes off Cervelli! lol Girardi almost blew a gasket! lol
Its a tough thing. You see the potential and you also see the waste.
That’s probably why he is such a puzzle.
It seems like the Yankees don’t want to do anything about Joba because they will look bad because they switched him around so much from the rotation to the pen. Though I will say that the Yankees are not to blame for Chamberlain’s horrible performances. But the media will not take that angle.
GF – I couldn’t agree more. That’s something that really irritates me – when somebody with no first hand knowledge makes pronouncements of that sort.
These guys work harder than many of us. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t be where they are, and last too long. TV makes the game look too easy.
In the NL parks in the WS against lefties, Dunn would play left, Gardner center and Swisher right. Against righties, Gardner sits and Granderson plays CF.
Dunn would never sit.
SJ44 -
If he could get himself together and come back as a beast of a relief pitcher, that’d be dandy!
I am not married to him being a starter anymore.
I also don’t think that the Yankees are to blame for all that’s happened. I think the Yankees tried everything they thought would help him be effective. It’s just an unfortunate state of affairs.
One part of me says, if they trade him and he gets a fresh start, that would be the best scenario for Joba – no more – well, he’s good, but he’s not 2007 good. You know?
Joba is where he needs to be — being mentored by Mo. How could anyplace be any better. He obviously has his problems, but I do not think it fair for anyone to say that he does not care or is not working hard. Mo is the best coach and teacher he could have. He is part of the team and his teammates treat him as such. Am not saying this to defend Joba but just for a moment put yourself in his shoes. Do you really think he is not trying? I think Mo will get Joba’s head on straight and we will see the Joba we need and want. That’s just my two cents.
I’m taking off. Good conversation on Joba, though. For once, it was pretty rational.
The thing I think we should all look at is the injury in Texas in 2008. That’s where it all went downhill for him. I don’t understand how a minor injury like that could derail his career.
NYYrumors Reliable source close to #Yankees says Joba a hard worker…Roy Halladay potential, untouchable. Cashman conflicted?less than 10 seconds ago via web
Y. Trader,
Yea if he does that its worth it but there are no guarantees that he would. Joba could get it together and get some big outs in the playoffs as well.
jEREMY….A bout of tendonitis is not an injury……He was back fairly quickly in a season that was going nowhere….That’s a copout
Jeremy -
If he’s afraid of getting hurt again, it could.
I think the Yankees are doing something about it….he’s no longer the EIG.
Its very hard to “fix” players at this point in the season.
MLB is not a developmental league. Especially with the Yankees. Its about trying to win the WS.
He isn’t going to the minors because their season is almost over and it would be a waste of time.
This is like when everybody wanted Tex benched, moved out of the 3 hole, etc. Turns out, Girardi was correct leaving him where he is in the lineup, trusting he would get going, and he did. Sometimes, when you trust your guys to get it going, they get it going. Other times, it doesn’t work out.
This is a HARD game folks. These guys, at least some of them, make it look easier than it is.
You see a guy like Chamberlain and its tempting to say, if he can string together 3 great outings in a row, he’s “back”. I think that’s always been the Yankees hope this year.
Unfortunately, it hasn’t happened and they aren’t left with anything else to do but reduce his role and see if that helps him.
They don’t have the luxury to turn over all of their teaching time to Joba right now. Its about trying to win a title and manage the needs of the other players as well as Joba.
Joe from Long Island
To say that they work harder than us is not totally true. I know plenty of people who work way harder and have more responsibilities than these athletes.
Yeah they work hard but to say they work harder than a doctor, a lawyer, an investment banker, teacher, etc. is a farce.
Hope the Yanks can take these next two games. This weekend series with TB is big!
Giuseppe
I am not concerned about the Red Sox. I do, however, enjoy bashing them and often times, I enjoy bashing Scioscia and the Angels more than bashing the sox.
For the sake of argument, though, let’s say that I am worried. Taking the hypothetical situation given by YankBlue and your response that he should “care about the Rays” who are 2 games back…
Why would a person not care more about the team that’s closest to knocking them out of a playoff spot?
Should a person care more about what team is closest to them in the division race, or what team is closest to knocking them out of the playoffs?
Pat M
Yeah that is true ! Then what could it be ?
By Tim Dierkes [July 28 at 3:40pm CST]
WEDNESDAY: Soria can also block deals to the Red Sox, Tigers, Phillies, Cardinals or Cubs, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. The reliever’s 2012 option vests at $6MM if he finishes 55 games in 2011. It would be difficult for Soria to reach that mark if he weren’t closing games, but his trade protection provides him with some leverage.
All about the money, plus the fame as a closer and not a setup guy.
Doreen,
I think the puzzle with Joba is as confusing as anything I’ve seen.
So much was made of the 2008 bout with tendonitis. However, that’s not a major injury.
No surgical procedure and it wasn’t even a major bout of tendonitis.
Folks point to that as the “beginning of the end” for Joba. However, that’s more urban legend than anything else.
He has thrown well since then. What he lost, and hasn’t been able to get back yet, is his consistency.
The “why” is a mystery to everybody.
They see the same video we see. He is a completely different pitcher mechanically than he was 2-3 years ago.
Compensating or being fearful of injury? Perhaps.
However, pitching, like a golf swing, can get messed up and you can get into bad habits mechanically. When you do, like a golf swing, it sometimes takes a long time to fix.
Especially when you can’t self-correct on the mound, as Joba can’t seem to do.
I think Joba has gotten into those bad habits and he’s just not been able to break them.
Watching him pitch last week at home sitting behind home plate was a revelation.
He threw five pitches and his landing leg landed in five different spots on the mound!
He was SO messed up mechanically, his ball had no life to it and he was throwing with max effort. It was tough to watch.
Chamberlain will be 25 on 9/23 which will make him a 25 year old pitcher with a 16 year old mind.
Jeremy….That’s the million dollar question……However if you look at video of him back in 07-08, you’ll see a differnt looking guy out there……I’ve always thought part of the issue was his conditioning…….
You’ll enjoy this article about Joba’s workout routine via advice from Clemens!!
http://www.usatoday.com/sports.....exts_N.htm
# Jeremy July 28th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
Giuseppe Franco
Joba could be a hard worker. But I don’t see it.
The guy doesn’t keep himself in the best of shape. When he blows up on the mound he always makes excuses saying that “you have to tip your cap to the other team”.
————
Sabathia isn’t exactly Slim Shady, ya know. But nobody questions his body because he gets results on the field.
Joba’s not getting results right now so people are free to speculate why and question his body, makeup, desire, mechanics, etc, etc.
Frankly, who cares what he says to the media?
I certainly don’t. A-Rod used to be the favorite whipping boy in pre/postgame comments and most of his dialogue wasn’t worthy of mention.
Most players throw out way cool cliche’s that we’ve all heard a thousand times. It’s all gibberish. We have no idea what these guys really think behind closed doors.
Thank Mo for SJ on this blog. Without him, this blog would lose at least a third of the page views. His insight is great. The 30 minute meeting is not something you’d ever see get reported.
“He threw five pitches and his landing leg landed in five different spots on the mound!”
Considering he now only pitches from the stretch, shows you how messed up he is.
SJ-
No answer to the question of putting Hughes back into the pen for the playoffs?
Is it fair to think he can switch back and forth under playoff stress no less?
Pat M.
I agree with you. I always thought that conditioning was an issue.
If you look at him now he doesn’t look like the same guy from 2007. He really looks out of shape.
Thanks, SJ. It’s tough to see all that promise effectively vanish.
Just sign Mike Marshall and have him work with Joba on his controversial Maxline Delivery.
You can lead a horse from firewater…
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9.....524930930/
The Yanks don’t have anyone to replace Joba with in the bullpen if he was sent to the minors. I am sure that is one of the reasons that he is still on the team. In the off season he must work with a conditioning coach and lose weight. Getting in better shape and learning his mechanics better is an absolute must. I am sure Cashman will make sure that happens. Otherwise he might not even have a spot on this team next year.
tampayank-
I know that you aren’t supposed to draft for need in the mlb draft because often times guys are so far away from contributing that you’re needs change, but posey would have been deadly for the rays. i remember they were very close to drafting him before going for beckham. i know that beckham has a ton of talent but is only hitting like .240 in the Florida State League granted he’s still very young for the league. But Posey in that lineup would maybe be enough to vault them over the Yanks imo. The difference between Shopach/Jaso/Navarro to Posey is huge.
I don’t think there would be a problem with putting Hughes in the bullpen for the playoffs.
They would probably give him a couple of outings in the regular season to get him used to warming up and going in games.
Other than that, he should be fine.
Plus, you only play two games in a row in the post-season so, its not like he would have to work 3-4 days in a row.
Its more about getting used to warming up, and making sure you are warmed up, before going into a game.
I wish this would be rained out – then we could avoid pitching Moseley.
As to the Sox, I thought they were supposed to struggle on this trip? Not so much, huh? The division is not locked up – nor is the Wild Card – and they are pitching a lot better. That said, there’s no point in worrying about them – I’m more worried about what my own team is doing.
Joba doesn’t seem to respond well to discipline or being told what to do.
What makes anybody think he will finally wake up and get in shape?
This is old news. If he hasn’t gotten the memo yet, perhaps he’s been out of town.
I wouldn’t trade Joba for Dunn in a million years. I don’t even want Dunn – and even though I’m a bit down on Joba, he’s still got a lot of potential. I would never trade him for a DH who doesn’t want to DH. I don’t even think we need Dunn – not enough to trade Joba for him at any rate.
Betsy
I would as well. But who knows if they do a double-header tomorrow and Moseley is forced to pitch anyway?
And they have struggled this trip. 5-4 with a chance at 5-5 if they lose today.
I don’t think there would be a problem with putting Hughes in the bullpen for the playoffs.
=====================================
SJ
I don’t like the way Hughes looked in last years playoffs and that was his job all year. Maybe he was ticked they gave the EIG to Joba and it got to him, I don’t know. Maybe he reacted adversely to the pressure of it all, again no way of knowing. All I know is that he looked uptight and ineffective, none the least was his barking at the ump. Sometimes he seems to let his emotions control him, not good for a pitcher.
With all the talk about Dunn, what if NJ returns? Isn’t that like a trade or FA pickup?
Betsy, at what point does potential starts to become disappointment and then bust ???? At what point do you decide to move on ?????
Jeremy,
BTW, Joe from LI is a doctor. He would know a little bit about dedication, hard work, and learning his craft.
Perhaps that’s part of the reason it irritates him when others, like yourself, make proclamations without any first hand knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors.
Chamberlain has everything at his disposal. If he can’t feed off watching videos of the master of consistent pitching mechanics (Mariano Rivera) then he’s a lost cause. It’s between his ears.
Pat M, I don’t think Joba is the only one you can ask that question of. Why is Joba different? I never said I wouldn’t trade him, but I have absolutely no interest in trading him for Dunn.
I think it’s a bad time to trade Joba, but if the Yanks could improve their chances of winning the World Series by trading him?
As Casper Gutman says of Wilmer in the Maltese Falcon: “I couldn’t be fonder of you if you were my own son. But, well, if you lose a son, it’s possible to get another. There’s only one Maltese Falcon.”
I understand that there probably is no point in sending Joba down now…….but although I’m sort of in favor of trading him, I don’t see why the Yankees can’t try to fix him during the off-season so that he maybe becomes a dominating reliever. Now if they really think that’s impossible, then trade him now, but then you can’t blame fans for not being happy with how the Yankees develop young pitchers.
RS fail to tie it up.
I would have included Joba in a deal for Haren if that would have got it done.
They didn’t give the 8th inning role to Joba last year in the playoffs.
It was Hughes’ job and he just didn’t pitch well, so they gave Joba a shot. Neither pitched particularly well, to be honest.
Perhaps Hughes just didn’t pitch well and there’s no reason for it? I’m not going to speculate what his mental status was last October after he had established himself as the best EIG in the league from June thru Sept.
Right now they seem to be tweaking Joba by this “demotion”.
He probably thinks they are playing with his head, again.
Maybe he should have a reality series so we can really get inside his head.
mick,
Small sample size. I don’t think last year will have any bearing on this year.
That stuff doesn’t roll over with players as much as fans think it does.
Hughes will be fine. He’s got another year under his belt, a ring, and an all star berth.
That’s about as settled a position you can have for a young guy and he seems to handle it well.
The post-season is just a two+ week crapshoot. Some guys get hot and some get cold.
Overall though, its dangerous footing to draw conclusions over such small sample sizes.
You just hope your team is the team that has the hot 2+ weeks. As the Yankees did last year.
Adam Dunn? I don’t know who I would give up for him. Definitely wouldn’t be Montero.
However, if the Yankees ever got Dunn, and expanded the deal to add Matt Capps to it, I’d be real tempted to do that deal because it would pretty much wrap up a playoff berth for them because it would address the two biggest weaknesses on the team.
As in all these trades though, the devil is always in the details.
Betsy, how has Hughes not been developed properly? How can you possibly be unhappy with his development? What other young pitchers are you talking about?
#rays in mix for adam dunn. would be big boost for already great team.
*Heyman………….
So be it; I’m not trading anything decent for this guy.
Giuseppe Franco
Well I still don’t believe that athletes work harder than alot of regular people. Which was what I said.
In terms of Joba yeah it might not have been the right thing to question his work ethic but after some of the past offseason issues he had and not taking better care of his body it’s hard not to question his work ethic.
Bronx Born, no idea what you’re talking about – I never mentioned Phil.
Why do the Angels suck so much against the R*d S*x?
Read this article and then tell me what you think about his offseason conditioning.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports.....exts_N.htm
# Betsy July 28th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
but then you can’t blame fans for not being happy with how the Yankees develop young pitchers.
That’s what I am talking about. What young pitchers are you referring to and how have the Yanks not developed them?
The Yankees are in very good position to get into the playoffs; I wouldn’t deal anything of significance for Capps/Dunn………especially if I were just doing that to solidify a playoff spot. Capps in a big spot in the post-season?
~stuart a
The same stuart a that thought starting mosely wasn’t going to happen???
stuart a the gm ??
If the Rays are interested in Dunn, let’s hope Dunn pulls a Dejesus….Would be harder for Dunn considering he doesn’t play the field, though.
I posted this once last year but it’s still relevant, here video of Joba pitching back in 2007 at Scranton, it looks nothing like the guy on the mound in 2010:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....8;index=12
Perhaps Hughes just didn’t pitch well and there’s no reason for it? I’m not going to speculate what his mental status was last October after he had established himself as the best EIG in the league from June thru Sept.
==========================
But it is quite worthy of speculation.
And they did give Joba his EIG role for whatever the reason.
It would seem the pressure of pitching in postseason relief would be considerably more than the regular season.
It becomes a gamble to try it again.
Betsy, here what I’m attempting to convey……Joba was in the rotation, and they had to go out and get another starter because he didn’t work out…..They have in the bullpen, and now that isn’t working out and they’re looking for pen help…….At some point it’s time to move on……..I hate to see him not work out in The Bronx, but it’s been a spiralling free fall and it’s costing the club wins……..Just a few days ago there were many here who refused to accept the fact that Cashman was shopping him around…Now today it’s pretty much a given that he can be donning a new uni at any time now……
Phil did blow off the media after one bad outing which is not exactly encouraging. Did the pressure get to him? Perhaps – perhaps not; we’ll have to wait and see.
Well first, I’m not sure the Yankees have done everything they could with Joba. While he aggravates me, he’s also got potential; instead of trading him at his worst, why not at least try and and get this kid in better physical and mental shape? Do they really want to see him succeed with another team?
I would have included Joba in a deal for Haren if that would have got it done.
——————————————————————————————-
I don’t think there is a fair market for Joba Chamberlain right now. He may be worth more to the Yankees than he is to anyone else. If they can re-build him then he could be a great pitcher. But no one is going to give up something to the Yankees knowing that they will have a major project on their hands.
Actually there are a couple of viable reasons for sending Joba to AAA (or all the way down to A ball):
1. Splash some cold water in his face. Everything came very quickly and easily to Joba once he joined the Yankees; it appears from the outside looking in that his approach is that “I’m Joba, I’m the man.” It’s understandable, and it’s mostly our fault for puffing him up from the day he got here; the Joba Rules T-shirts, the constant interviews with his dad, etc…we turned the guy into a rock star…I think now it’s time for him to recapture some humility by riding the busses.
2. It’s obvious that Joba is having some problems; so maybe some time in the minors will help him get himself right.
3. It sends a message to the rest of the team. From the time he’s come up here the Yankees have had separate rules for Joba, heck, you can argue that at times winning games took a back seat to Joba’s development – having him make three inning starts to stretch him out, stuff like that – when in reality he should have been doing that stuff in the minor leagues. Now the Yankees are going to risk games by letting Joba “find himself” during regular season games in a tight pennant race? If you’re Cashman and Girardi that’s a quick way to lose a team.
On another note
If the Yankees don’t make a big deal this week; two players who are currently on the DL that I could see slipping through waivers are Ben Sheets and Kerry Wood.
Neither player is having a good year, both make a lot of money and both could give the Yankees a good couple of months for not much cost.
I know I am the walking talking trade machine – but as we get closer to Saturday I’m sad to say I just don’t see a move coming.
CR9
I would never hope for an injury. That is so wrong !
And as for sending Joba to the minors – hey, it worked wonders for Roy Halladay.
Jeremy –
1. As you recall, I said that professional athletes work harder than many of us. And, if you think about for a minute, I’m sure you will realize I am right. How much extra time does an office worker spend honing their craft? I’m currently dealing with my insurance company, and I can tell you they’re out the door before even 4:00PM; and I’ll bet it isn’t to read up on the latest in auto insurance and how to better service their customers.
Manual laborers do work very hard. I see them every day, working on the streets in the blazing sun. But, I never said that athletes work harder than everyone.
2. By the way – I am a doctor. I run an intensive care unit for children. My current admission is a 17 year old boy, injured in an MVA when some jerk cut his mother off at an exit ramp, turning their car over, and leaving this poor kid with fractured ribs up and down his entire left chest, a hemo-pneumothorax (the chest tube we inserted drained a liter of blood), pulmonary lacerations and contusions, on a respirator, in shock, with spinal cord injuries. He may not survive. I’ve spent the last thirty years honing my craft, and continue to do so every night when I come home (Yankee games and this blog are my escape). So, yeah, I have an idea of how hard doctors, nurses, and other folks like that work.
Professional athletes work hard in their own way. I don’t think we should downgrade how hard they do work. That was my point. Sorry if I went off on you, but that little bit at the end of your comment – about doctors working hard – touched a bit of a raw nerve right now.
SJ….That expanded trade with Washington was mentioned last night as it wouldn’t be that much of a surprise…….
NYYrumors @SI_JonHeymanNYYrumors #Rays reluctant to deal David Price for Werth rental. Phils prefer dealing Ibanez. about 5 hours ago via web
less than 10 seconds ago via web
Um…disregard previous comment on Ben Sheets:
Ben Sheets needs flexor tendon surgery, according to Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle (via Twitter). ESPN.com’s Buster Olney suggested Sheets could require the surgery earlier today (Twitter link). The right-hander, who first underwent the operation last year, will presumably miss the rest of the 2010 season.
I’m on the fence about Dunn, but if I had the foresight that he would be the MVP of the WS as a Yankee, much like DH Matsui was, the trade for Chamberlain would be worth the rental of Dunn.
Jeremy
lol, just a joke! i reserve my hopes of injury on celtics!
Pat M, I understand what you are saying – and if the Yankees think he’s nothing more than a middle reliever, then trade him. However, you asked when does it become time for potential to turn into performance. Well, can’t you say the same thing about Phil? He’s not 21 anymore – he’s 24. I understand I’m taking my life in my hands by saying this – and if it gets bad, Pat, then I will e-mail you because I’m not going to get into free-for-all here. What exactly is the difference between Phil and Joba? Phil performed for a month and half this season – and now he’s struggling big time. Do the Yankees just have more confidence that he will eventually turn it around (even if it’s next year) because he repeats his mechanics?
BloggingBombers Posada said he’s been dealing with this current knee problem since 2006. He manages it regularly, but sometimes it flares up.
Betsy, one is on the rise, the other is on the downslope as we speak
Joe, that’s awful………I’m praying for that kid.
Rumorswecanonlyhopehappen@wecanonlyhope #Father takes computer away from Bret the Hitman tells him to stop annoying adults 2 minutes ago via web
Chip,
Sheets has a torn flexor tendon and is probably out for the season.
The “splash cold water in this face” or “sending a message to the rest of the team” isn’t really valid for the Yankees.
On the first part, punishing players, especially a guy you need to help you win, rarely works.
As Sherman points out today, its not like Joba is being insubordinate. He’s just pitching poorly.
You punish players when they are insubordinate. You don’t when they are playing poorly and are trying hard. Which seems to be the case with Joba.
As far as “sending a message to the rest of the team”, its a veteran team chip. They don’t respond to little league tactics and the Yankees are powerless to punish or teach lessons to veteran players
This clubhouse is as tight as any clubhouse in baseball. Joba isn’t fracturing the clubhouse in any way.
He’s just a young kid struggling with his game right now. Something everybody in that locker room has faced at times in their careers.
Bret-
Shane Victorino just went on the DL, and I suspect the Phillies will hold onto Werth, and reassess in August.
Pat M.
If Joba is traded away I wouldn’t have a problem with it. Not all young players pan out.
Pat M, I tend to be a pack rat at home – I can’t get rid of anything (magazines, newspapers, etc…) for some reason. Maybe I’m like that with prospects/young players, lol. I’m really torn with Joba. I don’t disagree with you, but I think there has to be a pitcher in there somewhere.
What we are dealing with is the myth of Joba vs the reality.
The myth we all know about.
The reality is undetermined.
He probably lies somewhere in the middle, which is what we might be witnessing now.
bret,
The joke has seen its best of times hours ago. Now, its just an annoying. You gotta chill out.
You take trade rumors way too seriously.
Chip,
Halladay and Chamberlain are not analogous in the slightest.
When Halladay went to the minors, he completely remade himself as a pitcher.
From mechanics to arm slot to delivery to the type of pitches he threw. A complete makeover.
That’s not going to happen with Joba. Nobody is changing his arm slot and turning him into a cutter, two seamer, changeup pitcher from a 3/4 arm slot.
Not everybody is “fixed” or “changed” in the minor leagues. Its not a one size fits all solution.
I would trade Joba for Dunn if I could acquire another arm for the pen. Capps would certainly qualify, but absent getting another reliever I would be hesitant to let Joba go.
If Chamberlain is traded away, it’s going to take high quality to get him. They aren’t going to give him away.
Joe from Long Island
I would never question your work ethic because I know that it’s tough. And I have great respect for what you do.
I guess I read that the wrong way. But I will admit that I should not question Joba’s work ethic but it’s hard sometimes. I guess it gets so emotional because he blows games and we all remember the Joba from 2007-2008 and wonder what happened.
But I apologize if I came off the wrong way.
Cinnncinati Redlegs are the feel good team of the season
The Yanks aren’t going to just give Joba away. I would rather send him to AAA instead of trading him for a 2 month rental. They would be selling him very low right now. The Yanks need to try everything possible to get him right before they decide he isn’t fixable. Let him work on conditioning in the off season and lets see where he is in spring training.
I would trade Joba for Dunn provided the Yankees could either get a decent relief pitcher included or swing a separate deal for a reliever.
The thing is, after the season the Yankees would presumably offer Dunn arbitration, so either a team signs him and the Yankees get a pick or two back for him, or Dunn sticks around for a full season as the Yankee DH – which could be a scary notion for opposing pitchers.
And while Dunn has traditionally been a big risk to strike out a lot, that’s not really the case any more – he walks almost as much as he strikes out these days and is clubbing homeruns in some of the biggest parks in baseball…
Downsides are obvious – he’s not a good fielder and he’s a career .238 hitter vs LHP
Article 5/27/08
By Mel Antonen, USA TODAY
Roger Clemens is out of baseball and involved in a steroids controversy, but he still has influence with the New York Yankees, the team he pitched for last season.
Yankees pitcher Joba Chamberlain, who is making the transition from eighth-inning reliever to the rotation, says he is in touch with Clemens regularly.
“We text back and forth and I ask him a lot of questions, because that’s how you get better,” Chamberlain said before the Yankees’ game in Baltimore Tuesday night. “You can’t be afraid to ask questions. I ask him everything from workout questions to how to pitch to certain batters. I never thought I’d be texting Roger Clemens.”
Chamberlain and Clemens had adjacent lockers last season when Chamberlain was called up in August and went 2-0 with a save and a 0.38 ERA in 19 appearances. This season Chamberlain has continued to pitch in relief, going 1-2 with a 2.42 ERA, but is preparing to move into the rotation and is scheduled to pitch in relief tonight.
Chamberlain says he’s taking pieces of Clemens’ workout routine and incorporating them. One piece of advice Clemens gave him: “The easiest day should be the day you pitch,” Chamberlain says. “Then, I beat myself up in between starts. I run, lift, eat right and take care of myself between starts.”
LOL
I don’t see why the Yankees couldn’t do that with Joba, but the thing is – where is there a spot for him in the rotation next year – or even the year after? If Phil completely sucks, then there would be one, but that would mean Joba would have had to spend time in the minors preparing to start and I don’t think that’s happening. If Phil does well, then who else is coming out of the rotation ? CC? AJ? Please let it be Lee? Phil? Andy? I guess if Andy doesn’t return there is a spot, but I don’t see Cash going with two youngsters……..
It seems like we are being lowballed for Joba, the thinking seems to be that we are fed up with him.
CR9
Oh okay it was just a joke.
New Post w/pregame notes