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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


The back-up plan

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Aug 18, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The MRI machine didn’t bring much good news for the Yankees on Tuesday.

Although Alex Rodriguez said it could have been worse, his test revealed a mild strain of his left calf. He wasn’t able to play last night, and as Brian reported last night, he’s expected to miss at least a few more games.

Although Andy Pettitte seemed to be working toward a rehab start, his MRI showed a strain of his left groin that will keep him out until September.

So the Yankees will have to continue with their back-up plans for a little longer. These are the alternatives.

ph_455369Third base
Right now it’s Ramiro Pena’s job. He doesn’t hit much, but his glove is outstanding and he’s actually had a knack for producing when given the opportunity. The Yankees have been willing to stick with him all season, and I’m not sure there’s reason to believe they would change course because of an injury that’s only supposed to cost Rodriguez a few days. But there are some options.

Brandon Laird: One of the season’s breakout prospects, Laird jumped to Triple-A at the beginning of August. He was in big league camp this spring, and he needs to be added to the 40-man this winter to be protected him from the Rule 5.
Kevin Russo: Already on the 40-man. Left a good reputation in New York. Hitting .284 this month in Triple-A.
Eduardo Nunez: On the 40-man without good Triple-A numbers all year. He’s primarily a shortstop, but the Yankees have given him starts at third base to increase his versatility.
Jorge Vazquez: Has 13 home runs in 57 Triple-A games. He’s also walked just seven times and hasn’t played third base since July 5.
Greg Dobbs: Or any other major league third baseman who’s been designated for assignment. That includes guys like Craig Counsell, Edwin Encarnacion and Geoff Blum. Brian Cashman said he doesn’t expect to make a move – and in this case I believe him — but there are some options out there.

ph_400291Rotation
For now it’s Dustin Moseley’s spot, and he’s pitched pretty well despite that bad inning in Kansas City. He’s 2-2 with a 4.50 ERA as a spot starter. Last time he pitched at Yankee Stadium he beat the Red Sox and got a standing ovation. But the Yankees have plenty of alternatives who could get a shot between now and Pettitte’s return.

Ivan Nova: Having  a terrific season as Scranton/Wilkes-Barre’s ace, Nova is 11-3 with a 2.93 ERA. He went 5-0 in July and has a 2.41 ERA in his past 10 starts. He’s on the exact same schedule as Moseley, and last time out he allowed one hit through seven innings. Pitched well in limited big league duty earlier this season.
Alfredo Aceves: Joe Girardi previously said the Yankees only wanted to get Aceves stretched out to around 40 pitches, but he also said the return of Aceves could be based on need. With a couple more rehab starts, they could get him stretched out as a starter.
Chad Gaudin or Sergio Mitre: The two long relievers in the Yankees bullpen could be moved into the rotation if necessary. Seems more likely that the Yankees would stick with Moseley, but Gaudin and Mitre have pitched pretty well in their bullpen roles and both were trusted with starts late last season.
David Phelps: With Jason Hirsh on the disabled list, Phelps is probably the second-best Triple-A starter right now, but it’s hard to imagine any minor leaguer getting the call ahead of Nova.

Comments

comments

 

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413 Responses to “The back-up plan”

  1. comet August 18th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    I’d like to see Mitre or Nova given an opportunity over Vasquez at this point. He just isn’t effective.

  2. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Right now, Laird is in one of his two annual slumps. always happens. One around May that lasts about 3-4 weeks and another in August that generally lasts about a week to 10 days. In between those two slumps, he’s hard to pitch to. He hits right handers as well as the left handers.

  3. Bronx Jeers August 18th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Ideally Jorge is primary DH in 2011 and is able to catch a game or 2 a week to give whoever a rest.

    And at this point, “whoever” doesn’t look like Cisco.

    John Buck would be ideal but I think he should be seeking a multi-year deal. Or at least a 2 year deal.

    And I do think the Yanks could swing it. I’m sure if they decide that Montero is indeed ready, a player like Buck will always be in demand.

  4. Erica in NY August 18th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    I am very glad that Chad didn’t include Marcus Thames as a 3rd Base possibility

  5. pat August 18th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Aceves was originally told he would get 2 rehab starts and it looks like it will be at least 3 now despite him pitching well last night.

    Sounds like they may be looking to stretch him out a little more.

  6. 108 stitches August 18th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    If the team can slide by for the next 13 games, the roster can be expanded on 9/1. Not so sure it can happen.

  7. Joe S formerly of Brooklyn August 18th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    I’ve got a question not dealt with above. Sooner or later, the Yankees are going to add Aceves and Pettitte back from the DL.

    Who gets the boot then from the 25-man roster? 2 bullpen guys from among Mitre, Gaudin, Moseley (and/or Joba) — ?

    Can they do a legit DL listing for Javy?

    Or shed one of those fellows and someone from the bench (Berkman, Thames, Kearns? Can’t send out Cervelli w/out bringing up a catcher, can’t dump Ramiro without bringing up a Russo or other….?

    Perhaps Cashman hopes/plans that Andy and Ace stay away until Sept. 1?

  8. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    I don’t think that Posada has plans to play past the current contract. Just my guess. Buck on a two year deal isn’t a bad thing. Let him and Posada mentor Montero in 2011 and then Romine in 2012.

  9. blake August 18th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    The Yankees need an experienced big league caliber catcher that is capable of catching a full schedule of games if need be. (Buck would be nice). That way Jorge isn’t pressed to catch more than he’s capable of and Montero isn’t pressed to catch more than he’s ready for.

    Jorge can’t catch fulltime anymore and Cervelli isn’t good enough to play as much as he has this year.

    Has anyone heard anything about plans for Javy’s next start?

  10. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Thanks SJ.

    I definitely see Jorge as mostly a DH next season, but I think having him in that role presents some issues. The biggest is that Jorgie’s production with the bat isn’t what it used to be. That could also just be a result of missing time and getting out of a rhythm because of the injuries. I’d still like to see him catching at least 50-70 games if possible. I think our line up is stronger that way because it gives us more flexibility at the DH spot to rest other guys.

    My hope is Montero is on our 25 man roster next season. I think it would be the best way to expose him to the bigs. It would be as low pressure as that situation gets (which I realize, especially in NY, is still a tough spot to be in) and I think that will be the key to him performing well.

  11. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Laird would be a big drop-off defensively, though. So…for now, I live with Pena.

    Pitching it would seem they have more options.

    G.Love -

    I personally would not take Manny for the Block, but I have learned that sometimes the improbable happens, and I’m not going to get my knickers in a twist if something like that happened.

    ***

    “Hollywood Square” observation, and slightly off-topic. On my vacation we visited both Dodger Stadium and AT&T Park. During the Giants game, there was a lot of celebration of their terrific past, including the NY years. During the Dodgers game, there was a lof of celebration of — the celebrities that are counted among their fans (“This is MY town”) and not much in the way of celebrating their history, and certainly almost none of their history in Brooklyn. So, I’d say Manny was a good fit for Dodgertown.

    ***

    About Manny’s hair. True, he did cut his hair to allow his name to show when he first got to LA. But if you noticed, it got longer during his stay there, and no one made him change it back. As far as the Yankees and Manny’s hair: It’s a team policy and every new Yankee has succumbed to a shave and a haircut, no exceptions. I don’t think it’s wise to change policy for a player, even it is just for a few weeks. Where’s the cut-off then? (NO pun intended) Maybe they could get him to stuff his dreds in one of those caps?

  12. Andrew August 18th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    At this point the question of Pettitte returning and moving someone off the 25 man roster is moot, because it doesn’t seem like he’ll be back before the rosters expand. It seems like 2nd week of September is more likely for him now, so he won’t need to bump anyone off the 25-man squad currently in place. Aceves would most likely take Gaudin’s place, but I think they are trying to be 100% certain that Ace’s back will cooperate before DFAing someone.

  13. Ninja Burglar August 18th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    No love for Cervelli at 3rd??? :)

  14. Erin August 18th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    I was just glancing through the last thread-people seriously want Manny?? 8O

    Alex is only supposed to miss a few games, so I really can’t see them bringing somebody else up. El Nino’s got it covered.

  15. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    pat -

    Stretch him out more (Aceves), or maybe stretch his time away more so they don’t have to get rid of anybody because the rosters expand soon?

  16. JCPD August 18th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    GB….. just because of his competitive nature, I think Posada might want to play past 2011. However, I have a hard time believing the Yanks would entertain the idea of bringing him back.

  17. Yogi Mantle August 18th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    If Javy keeps having that “dead arm” syndrome it could be something that could be used to put him on the DL. It seems the Yanks are hesitant to do that, maybe hoping that he can work through it instead.

    We aren’t all that far from the rosters expanding, which might influence when some of the players come back, then its only being concerned with the 40 man issue. That would be my guess right now, judging from when the players are supposed to be due back.

  18. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Today’s Guess the Line Up is Open for Business.

    Lineups accepted until official lineup is posted

    Good Luck! :)

  19. jacksquat August 18th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    4. People talk all the time about how bad a season Curtis Granderson is having, but no mention is made of the fact that Jorge Posada is also having an awful offensive year.

    No he’s not. He has an .812 OPS. His career OPS is .857. That’s second in AL this year for catchers (300 PA), behind only Mauer, who is 12 years younger. Jorge’s only problem is how much he is able to play.

  20. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Shame,

    In a perfect world, Jorge has a healthy off-season to heal and get ready to be a full-time DH.

    Given the beating his body has taken, that isn’t a bad thing, IMO.

    Montero shows the Yankees he can indeed catch.

    They move Cervelli for help in other areas and sign guy like Buck to a 2 year deal.

    If Montero shows he can catch (a BIG if, IMO), that would be the way I’d go.

    I think with Jorge DH’ing, and Buck and Montero catching, with Romine in AAA and Sanchez in A Ball, that’s great coverage for that position.

  21. Yogi Mantle August 18th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Jorge is competitive, but I don’t see that as a motivation to get another year or two as a player if he can’t hack it. This year he’s missed a lot of games due to nagging issues. These won’t be any better a year later.

    He has also made a couple of comments about someone else doing the job after his contract is up.

    The shoulder issue, the knees, the normal dings and dongs he gets, all take their toll on him. Plus his son’s health issues might have him thinking to spend more time at home over sliding downhill while playing.

  22. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Doreen, Laird’s defensive flaws are pretty easily corrected once he has a competent instructor to work with him. He’s no better or no worse than Pena at third, which is his worst position.

  23. Howe Farr August 18th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    The posadas relocated to Miami from Tampa, i think Jorge knows the end is near and will call it a career pretty soon…imo

  24. pat August 18th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Doreen

    That too. Stretching him serves multiple purposes unless he becomes a necessity.

    Hair is the least of Manny’s issues. Any salon that can do a “weave” can braid dreds short enough that they would never have to be cut.

    I think Manny would be fun in small doses. Sir Sidney came to NY with as much baggage and less talent and everyone survived.

  25. MTU August 18th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    GB-

    You once mentioned Doumit. What would think of him as the 3rd catcher in a trio of Jorge, and Montero if he could be had ?

    He is versatile but is he good enough to fill such a role ?

    What do think the Bucs might want for him ?

  26. Bronx Jeers August 18th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    I don’t see Mitre, Gaudin, Nova etc. as an upgrade over Javy with his supposed dead arm.

    It’s not like he’s been lighting up the gun this season anyway. Quite the opposite.

    He can get outs if he’s got his good control.

  27. GayleF August 18th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Wouldn’t the Yankees want to make sure that Aceves can pitch on back to back days before they bring him up as well. If he is going to be used as he was last year they would need to know that yes>

    I also think that also means they do not bring him up until rosters expand thus not needing to make any moves and hopefully it means what the pitchers are doing is pitching for their spot on the playoff roster knowing that at least for the first series you wont be carrying as many pitchers anyway.

  28. Joe from Long Island August 18th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Even though Cervelli is in a bit of a slump, offensively and behind the plate, I have to think he has some market value. Young, athletic guy, shown a knack for timely hitting; and still growing as a catcher and caller of games. I would think lots of teams, strapped for cash, would be willing to take him on.

    Again, it depends what the deal is, but I wouldn’t be shocked if Cash moves him this winter. If he doesn’t, that might say something about the Yanks’ take on Montero’s skills.

  29. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    GB7 -

    With Laird, though, throwing him into the majors in a pennant race – wouldn’t or couldn’t that have an adverse effect on him defensively? Or am I a worry wort? But, more to the point, would there be enough time to work with him “on the job?”

  30. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    MaineYankee August 18th, 2010 at 11:27 am
    Chip

    What possible reason would the Mets make that trade for?

    If they trade Reyes I would think they could get more of a return than that.
    ————————————–

    Maine, a few reasons:

    1. Jose Reyes is due 11 mil next year and then the Mets will have to decide about whether or not to give him a long term contract. Reyes is a great talent but he’s emblomatic of the way the Mets have performed over the last four years. He’s injury prone, goes through long stretches where he just doesn’t care and if you confront him he pouts rather than play harder.

    2. Assuming the Mets chuck K-Rod after this season; they’ll need a closer. Papelbon will make just as much as Reyes next year and the Red Sox can shift Bard to closer.

    3. The Mets desperately need to blow up their team and get rid of those players who are the faces of the disaster that they’ve been. Those guys are: Perez, Beltran, K-Rod, Reyes and Castillo. The Mets can’t/won’t dump all those guys and likely Reyes is the only one they could possibly move in a trade.

    4. As for the Mets getting a lot more for Reyes than Papelbon and Lowrie, I doubt it. You’re talking about an expensive player on the verge of free agency who has injury and attitude issues.

  31. blake August 18th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Only thing about making Posada the full time DH is that you then likely lose the offensive positional advantage at catcher…unless Montero can catch more than we all think he’ll be ready for. I’m hoping Jorge heals up over the winter and can at least catch some next year.

  32. Brian August 18th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Wasn’t Nunez having a pretty good season at AAA until just recently when he started slumping, and he’s still batting .288 with 25 doubles and 23 stolen bases. He’s primarily a singles hitter, but does that mean Chad’s comment that he’s “On the 40-man without good Triple-A numbers all year.” really fit his performance?

  33. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    MTU August 18th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
    GB-

    You once mentioned Doumit. What would think of him as the 3rd catcher in a trio of Jorge, and Montero if he could be had ?

    He is versatile but is he good enough to fill such a role ?

    What do think the Bucs might want for him ?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Two years ago, I thought Doumit would have been ideal as a 2nd catcher/backup corner outfielder, but, with the cucussions and deteriorating catching skills, I’m not too crazy about him.

  34. Bronx Jeers August 18th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    The posadas relocated to Miami from Tampa, i think Jorge knows the end is near and will call it a career pretty soon…imo

    —————————————————————————————————————–

    Actually I think Tampa to Miami is a step towards a more youthful existence. :wink:

  35. MTU August 18th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Jeers-

    The usual Rx for “dead arm” is to let the pitcher try to work thru it.

    In a case like Javy, I wonder it it might make sense to skip a start again. Perhaps Nova could cover it for one start.

    The object is to get everyone as healthy as possible for the stretch run. I know the race is tight and gonna stay that way but if we can hang in there and give our guys a little extra rest that might be good.

    Rosters are set to expand soon and that means more troops to the front.

  36. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    MTU –

    I like Doumit, but what alignment are you looking at with him, Jorge and Montero all on the team?

    If Montero’s here he’s going to be in the lineup everyday either at DH or C; Posada certainly won’t take well to a bench role and Doumit’s an everyday player too.

    Cervelli has shown enough IMHO to be counted on as a backup on the roster. If/when Jorge has to miss significant time Cervelli and Montero should be enough to hold the fort and if not the Yankees can deal for a veteran backup.

  37. Andrew August 18th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Even if Jorge is the full time DH, he could still hypothetically fill in at catcher if need be, as well. And I figure Cashman would appreciate having that kind of flexibility on the roster, so in essence it makes sense to carry 3 catchers, even though it would not be a traditional rotation of all 3 at once.

    That way if Montero proves to be a disaster behind the plate or really struggles to make the leap offensively he can be returned to AAA, knowing that they still would have another veteran catcher on the roster who could pick up some games here and there as the backup. The biggest thing is that they find another catcher not named Cervelli that can hit a little and hold his own defensively to get the bulk of the starts, so that Montero can ease his way into the fold.

  38. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Good points Sj,

    I just hope Montero is an option for next season because I think knowing Romine is down in AAA will be a GREAT motivator for a kid that has a lot of natural talent but maybe not a lot of drive. I know I’m only basing that on this years spring training and he’s very young, but I look at Montero as having a bit of Cano or Joba in him in that regard. Thats why I hope he comes up while someone else is breathing down his neck. I think competition is a fantastic way to keep guys on their toes and sorta separate the guys that can handle pressure from those that cant.

  39. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    blake August 18th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
    Only thing about making Posada the full time DH is that you then likely lose the offensive positional advantage at catcher?unless Montero can catch more than we all think he?ll be ready for. I?m hoping Jorge heals up over the winter and can at least catch some next year.
    ————————

    I like your optimism but I don’t think getting older is going to be the Rx for Jorge doing more catching next year.

    More likely, Montero and Posada will split C/DH and Cervelli will play once-in-a-while.

  40. MTU August 18th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    GB-

    Thanks. Just trying to think of alternatives for next year aside from Cervy.

  41. Erin August 18th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    GTLU:

    LF Gardner
    SS Jeter
    1B Teixeira
    2B Cano
    RF Swisher
    C Posada
    DH Berkman
    CF Granderson
    3B Pena

    Thanks Doreen! :)

  42. UnKnown August 18th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    I will lead things off. Checking the standings my season of GTLU has been one to forget. haha. Here’s another shot at it.

    GTLU

    Gardner LF
    Jeter SS
    Tex 1b
    Cano 2b
    Posada C
    Swisher RF
    Thames DH
    Granderson CF
    Pena 3b

  43. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    SJ -

    I think the question the Yankees will ask themselves is whether or not Montero’s bat makes up for his lack of defense behind the dish.

    It’s not like with Jorge they have a gold glover back there, and by all reports, Montero’s bat is going to be leaps and bounds above Jorge’s.

    I think they split the duties as much as possible next year and then when Jorge’s gone after the season they see where Romine is.

  44. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    GTLU:

    Jeter – SS
    Swisher – RF
    Tex – 1b
    Alex – DH
    Cano – 2b
    Posada – C
    Granderson – CF
    Gardner – LF
    Pena – 3b

  45. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
    GB7 -

    With Laird, though, throwing him into the majors in a pennant race – wouldn’t or couldn’t that have an adverse effect on him defensively? Or am I a worry wort? But, more to the point, would there be enough time to work with him “on the job?”

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Unless there is a DL trip in Rodriguez’ immediate future, I doubt the yanks call up Laird until September. I think that a few days of working with Mick Kelleher would really help him. The bat is pretty close to ready, but, let him get it going again before bringing him up. He’s pretty level headed, regardless of the Arizona incident this past winter, which was more his brother and friend than it was Brandon Laird.

    He’ll be fine, but, I’d wait until September, unless Rodriguez is out for a while. Not much difference in Pena’s third base play and Laird’s, but, a big difference in bats.

  46. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    The Mets are talking about a contract extension for Reyes. I don’t think they will deal him.

    If they did, you can’t deal him for an erratic closer in his walk year.

    They already have one of them on the roster now.

  47. upstate kate August 18th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    GTLU
    going w/ yesterday’s winning line up
    LF GGBG
    SS Jeet
    1B Tex
    2B Robbie
    RF Swish
    C Po
    DH Thames
    CF Granderon
    3b Pena

    thanks Doreen!

  48. MTU August 18th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Chip-

    I’m not convinced about Cervelli any longer. I would be very concerned if Jorge went down again and Cervy was forced to assume a role much like he has had to this season.

    He gets exposed if he plays too much. His defense has been inferior this year too. That was supposed to be his strong suit. Not even so sure about him as a BU any more.

    I think the Yanks may go with a trio of a catchers next season.

    Not exactly sure of the proportions to each.

    SJ, quite rightly, points out that a lot of this depends on how much progress Jesus can make at Catcher. His main problem seems to be his slow lower half and the excessive number of PB’s he has allowed.

    Would like to see some options other than Buck presented. he may not be available.

  49. pat August 18th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    I’m starting to feel bad for Montero.

    Not sure anyone can live up to the expectations some people have of him and if fans will be patient with the growing pains he will have.

  50. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    He?ll be fine, but, I?d wait until September, unless Rodriguez is out for a while. Not much difference in Pena?s third base play and Laird?s, but, a big difference in bats.

    =============================

    Having never seen Laird play I can’t comment on his defensive ability at 3b. But I think the bigger reason why he won’t supplant Pena is that Pena can also play 2b and SS which Laird cannot.

    Next season it wouldn’t shock me if Pena’s not on the bench and Laird and Eduardo Nunez are. Nunez can back up SS, 2B, CF and Laird can back up all four corners.

  51. charlestonchew August 18th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    I won’t watch this team if we have Manny on it.

    He’s awful. And Cashman isn’t about to ruin the chemistry he worked so hard to build by bringing in guys like CC, Swish, Tex, Granderson, and AJ.

  52. blake August 18th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Chip,

    I tend to agree but if Posada isn’t able to catch at least some on a regular basis then they most likely will have to go outside the organization and aquire a catcher that can catch at a big league level for a good portion of games. Montero won’t be ready to handle that load and Cervelli isn’t good enough to handle that load IMO.

  53. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Doreen/ SJ

    Perhaps one of you can tell me what the quality of the infields are in Trenton and Scranton. As nice as the fields at Joe Riley in Charleston and Paulson Stadium in Savannah are, they are not ML quality, which would affect infield play.

  54. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
    The Mets are talking about a contract extension for Reyes. I don?t think they will deal him.

    If they did, you can?t deal him for an erratic closer in his walk year.

    They already have one of them on the roster now.
    ———————–

    Omar Minaya is talking about a contract extension for Reyes and I’m not convinced Minaya will be the one making the decisions next year.

    I should have prefaced my trade suggestion by saying that it only is possible if Omar’s out after this season.

    If the Mets bring in a GM from outside the organization (Kevin Towers for the sake of a name) I think the first thing that new GM does is make wholesale changes to the core of the team and one of the first people to go will be Reyes.

    I just don’t know that the trade value of an erratic, expensive SS is all that much higher than Papelbon.

  55. MTU August 18th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Pat-

    Re: Montero.

    I guess that depends on whose expectations we’re talking about.

    But I do agree that many people might be thinking he can do too much too soon.

    My expectations are quite a bit more modest for next season. :)

  56. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    I would trade Cervelli in the offseason. Teams have inquired about him (in rumors anyways) the past 2 off-seasons. There will be a GM dumb enough to go off his reputation and the fact he batted near .300 for 2 seasons.

  57. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Talking about next year and signing a catcher, etc. is why i am disappointed the yankees weren’t able to pull off the Haren trade and take back Synder with him. The D-backs salary dumped Snyder and he was actually really good… high on base and power from the catcher position.

    Unless there is some defensive deficiency that I missed, Snyder was a logical choice for the yankees.

  58. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    MTU and Blake -

    Cervelli’s fine as a backup catcher. No, he’s not a great hitter, but he does enough.

    I think before the Yankees go outside the organization to bring in another catcher (outside of a minor league free agent ala Chad Moeller) two things will have to happen:

    1. Jorge will have to get hurt for an extended period
    2. Montero will have to prove he can’t catch

    But to open the season, I think you’re looking at the following scenario:

    NYY: Posada, Cervelli, Montero
    Scranton: Romine, Veteran X

    If Jorge breaks his leg and Montero is letting balls go through his legs and Cervelli’s batting .150 then I think you’ll see the Yankees make a deal like they did for Jose Molina.

  59. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    You know Chip, I think the Mets may have missed their window to blow up their roster. I remember thinking two seasons ago that Reyes, Beltran, Castillo, and Wright should all just be sold to the highest bidder and the team should start from scratch with high draft picks and young talent (presumably returned on the moving of those players). Everyone thought I was crazy, and so did I to an extent, but every player in that club house is pretty much infected with the loser gene (hahahahaha, see what I did there? I kill me..). They’d all play better for other teams and the Mets needed a revamp… but I think the chance has passed and the value of said players has dropped considerably.

  60. raymagnetic August 18th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Ray Smith is an internet entrepreneur and has been earning money online since 2005.

  61. MTU August 18th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Chip-

    That’s definitely an option as a plan. Rene Rivera at AA might be another guy who can fill in. He’s better than Moeller.

    I’m not sure that’s the way the Yanks will choose. We’ll see.

    By the way, How the heck are you ? :)

  62. Bronx Jeers August 18th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    If Jorge breaks his leg and Montero is letting balls go through his legs and Cervelli’s batting .150 then I think you’ll see the Yankees make a deal like they did for Jose Molina.

    ———————————————————————————————————————

    This isn’t too far from reality.

  63. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Cervelli is batting .150 *right now*

  64. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Shame –

    I agree that the value of guys like Reyes, Beltran and Castillo is shot.

    Here’s the way I look at them:

    If Jeff Wilpon is willing to eat the 3 years left on Omar’s deal (big if) and a new GM is given autonomy that person has five guys to make decisions with:
    Perez
    Castillo
    Reyes
    Beltran
    K-Rod

    Beltran’s not going anywhere. He’s got too much money coming to trade him and in the walk year of his contract maybe they get a good year out of him as he goes for a contract push.

    Castillo – The only thing you can do other than keep him is release him. He has absolutely no trade value.

    Perez – Agan, no trade value, but also too much money to cut him. Only way you move him is by taking back someone else’s bad contract like the deal the Mariners and Cubs made where Bradley was traded for Silva.

    K-Rod – MLBPA is going to win their case against the Mets. So if K-Rod is back next year he’s going to hit the numbers to trigger his vesting option and make $17 mil in 2012. The only thing the Mets can do at this point is release him.

    Reyes – $11 mil option will be picked up but if the Mets don’t offer him an insane contract he’s going to pout. And offering Reyes a big money contract would, in my opinion, be a huge mistake. He hasn’t earned it. They would be giving it to him out of fear that he would go into the tank. My opinion there are two trades that make sense for him:

    Boston for Papelbon (and Lowrie)
    Tampa for Garza (with Hellickson on the way Tampa has pitching to spare and Reyes would soften the blow if they lose Crawford)

  65. MTU August 18th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Jeers-

    “This isn’t too far from reality.”

    How the hell would you know ? :)

  66. MaineYankee August 18th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Chip

    I don’t buy your idea about Reyes but lets try another angle.

    Why would the RS make that trade?

  67. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    MTU August 18th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
    Chip-

    That?s definitely an option as a plan. Rene Rivera at AA might be another guy who can fill in. He?s better than Moeller.

    I?m not sure that?s the way the Yanks will choose. We?ll see.

    By the way, How the heck are you ?
    ———————————

    MTU – I’m good, you?

    I think that Cervelli reminds Girardi of himself and so he has faith in the kid’s ability to back up.

  68. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Is Longoria’s steroid and HGH injections wearing off? He hasn’t homered in 75 at bats.

  69. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    For the last month and some change: .157 .218 .176 .395 Cervelli’s OPS is like nearly equal to Jeter/Gardner’s slugging.

    Also Jeter is slugging as much as Gardner, who saw THAT coming.

  70. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    MaineYankee August 18th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
    Chip

    I don?t buy your idea about Reyes but lets try another angle.

    Why would the RS make that trade?
    ——————–

    1. Papelbon is to the Red Sox what Reyes is to the Mets
    2. Daniel Bard
    3. They are faced with possibly having to give Adrian Beltre a big money deal; Beltre’s had a good year but he also had a good year in his walk year with the Dodgers. Trade for Reyes, move Scutaro to 3b.

  71. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Guys like Geoff Blum and Craig Counsell are available and an upgrade over Pena. Who has the knack of hitting grounds balls and weak fly balls. If Arod is out for extensive period, please tell me Cashman will look at minor league options or guys who are available such a Geoff Blum, Bloomquist and Craig Counsell.

    The yankees having one backup infielder for SS,2b,3b exposes the imbalance of the bench where we have 6 of/dh types. I rather see, as someone suggested, Renee Rivera or Waiver deal for another catcher than Cervelli who has hit 150 with absolute no power and committed 8 errors since May. But now Cashman think this is team we got?

    I would bring up Nova to give Javy a breather and see if it helps. Again, who has any confidence go into a big game down the stretch with Javy i will say bless you and good luck.
    Time to give guys like phelps and Nova a couple starts.

  72. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Yanks are in trouble if Andy does not return in time for the playoffs. It’s not a given that he makes it back……..However, I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

    They really went bonkers on Cashman and I can’t blame them. Cash is quoted as saying in the NY Post today that there are no innings limits on Hughes for the post-season, but there still are limits up until the end of the season because in essence it’s their own fault if they haven’t sewn up a playoff spot before then. That makes no sense – as Joe and Evans said, Cash is basically giving the Yankees a week or two less time to win/get WC than all the other teams have. I assume his point is that Hughes is going to have limits during the regular season no matter what, but then they need to realize that they’ll have Moseley and perhaps another kid like Nova in the rotation by the time the games against the Rays and Sox and Jays roll around. They should be skipping Phil right now and pitching Nova……..

  73. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    Cervelli was never considered a good hitter. As a minor leaguer he (and Ramiro Pena) were always considered bench players because they are terrific defensive players with weak bats.

    Cervelli’s hot start maybe got everyone’s hopes up, but the bottom line is that he’s a younger, less expensive Jose Molina.

  74. MTU August 18th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    Chip-

    Have some family medical problems but otherwise doin’ good.

    That may be. But you know the Yanks are all about performance and winning. They don’t have a lot of room for sentimentality in their neck of the woods. Too many wolves nipping at their heels all the time.

    Get up to Vermont lately to harass the milkmaids ? :)

  75. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    The Reyes extension talks aren’t an Omar deal. Its a Jeff Wilpon deal.

    He loves Reyes and Wright and I think any GM who takes that job will be told those guys are off limits in trade talks.

    Not the way I would go but, I’m not Jeff Wilpon! lol

    As far as Montero is concerned. I agree with Pat.

    As with Hughes and Gardner for example, everybody loves “homegrown”……until they have a slump.

    One reason why the Yankees will ease Montero in, as they did Jorge many years ago is, they know how difficult it is to be a young catcher in NY.

    Its why, if Montero is in NY next year as a catcher, you can be sure a veteran C will be here to catch a majority of the games.

    Whether that’s Jorge or someone else (if Jorge is the fulltime DH), I doubt it would be Cervelli in this scenario.

  76. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    GB7 -

    I don’t know, really. The infield in Trenton looks fine, but you know that looks can be deceiving. I don’t know if it’s hard, for instance. But it is well-kept, or looks well-kept. Plus, there’s all that extra-curricular usage on the field, kids running bases, dogs coming out to the get bats, hot dog races and musical chairs and the like.

  77. MaineYankee August 18th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Chip

    So the RS get rid of one problem to pick up another.

    I don’t buy that.

    As soon as Theo got there he was trying to find a way to move Manny because he didn’t like his antics.

    Why would he bring in someone with similar problems?

  78. Bronx Jeers August 18th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    # MTU August 18th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Jeers-

    “This isn’t too far from reality.”

    How the hell would you know ? :)

    ——————————————————

    True.

    I could be writing this from Shutter Island and not even be aware of it.

  79. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    SJ, I see your as condescending as ever – big surprise. The only people who ever know anything about baseball are people who agree with you………funny how that works.

    Right – Hughes’ rough patch lasted from mid-May through July; that’s not a rough patch, that’s most of the season.

    Give me a break. You talk about starting him in the post-season because he has swing and miss stuff and then when the proof is in front of you that he does not have swing and miss stuff, you pooh pooh it. Andy has been the 2nd best pitcher this year (or first, then CC), not Phil……..

  80. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Cervelli was never considered a good hitter.

    This is true, but he always had solid hitting skills that suggested he could be an above average backup, certainly better than Jose Molina. He has foot speed, he had minor league plate discipline, and he was a line drive and ground ball hitter in the minors which suggested he could post some empty high averages with a decent OBP because he had patience.

    Right now he is just collapsing on all levels.

  81. MTU August 18th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Jeers-

    I doubt that unless I just haven’t seen you here. ;)

  82. pat August 18th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    “He hasn?t homered in 75 at bats.”

    Michael Kay said last night was Cano’s first HR in 55 ABs and I thought will someone ask him in the postgame if he was pressing? :wink:

  83. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    MTU – I’m heading up in a couple of weeks. The husband of my wife’s best friend is being deployed early next month so we’re going to hang out with them for a little bit.

    SJ -

    I don’t know what quality of GM you’re going to get for the Mets if he’s not going to be allowed to reshape the club as he sees fit. But then again this is the Mets we’re talking about and their foolishness never surprises me.

    I can’t see the Yankees going out of the organization for another ML catcher to open next season. I really think we’re going to see Jorge, Montero and Cervelli and (provided everyone’s healthy) it’ll break down like this behind the dish:

    Jorge: 50%
    Montero: 35%
    Cervelli: 15%

    As I said, I think Joe sees a lot of himself in Cervelli and trusts him to hold the fort if Jorge goes down. I mean how many games did Moeller catch when Posada was on the DL?

  84. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Cervelli isn’t doing just fine as a backup catcher. He’s 2nd in the league in errors for catchers and 4th in baseball with just 62 games started. 41-8 in steals allowed at 16%. Those are pretty dismal defensive numbers.

  85. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Chip, I agree with your assessment of the players value.. I just don’t know if other teams would really want them. Maybe thats not what I mean.. maybe what I should say is every other club knows the position the Mets are in right now, and would offer them a bag of balls and some used jock straps for them. I think the Mets have no choice but to eat salary, try and trade Reyes but if not let him walk, and just wait for the rest of the contracts to expire. When I even THINK of Perez my head hurts. I don’t know what you do about that mess over there.. so glad I root for the Yanks.

  86. m August 18th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Good morning, everyone. So many good topics being discussed. Where do I start?

    1. randy l, nice to see you. I like your “Big 4″. I hereby decree that “Core 4″ be banished.

    2. Rishi, good to see you again.

    3. Aceves could be being stalled until rosters expand, but…they could be thinking that it’s entirely possible that Pettitte doesn’t heal 100%. I know it’s tough to depend on Aceves being and staying healthy, but he could be a starter candidate.

    4. I’m not saying I want Manny, but did he ever say he will never, ever cut his dreads above the collar? Not being facetious, but I was just wondering. And if he did, sometimes the competitive juices overrule a media soundbyte.

    5. Maine Yankee & Doreen. Of course it’s silly to complain about getting to a game. Just look at Jane Lang! ;)

    6. Finally, I think we all need to chip in by Brett a new pair of shoes every game day. I haven’t read the RAB article, but Brett is an important part of this year’s team even if some feel he’s not in their longterm plans.

  87. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    I wish I didn’t have to be here sometimes.

    I have the following people for GTLU:

    Erin
    Unknown
    Chip
    upstate kate

  88. MTU August 18th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    GB-

    Jose Molina he is not. When your strong suit becomes your weak suit you’re in a lot of trouble. That is why I think the Yanks go in a different direction next season.

  89. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    MaineYankee August 18th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
    Chip

    So the RS get rid of one problem to pick up another.

    I don?t buy that.

    As soon as Theo got there he was trying to find a way to move Manny because he didn?t like his antics.

    Why would he bring in someone with similar problems?
    ————————–

    And Theo would have been a fool to actually get rid of Manny – he was a key to both their WS teams.

    Reyes is a pain; no doubt; but he’s also supremely talented and would be the best SS that franchise has had since Nomar was in his prime.

    The money is a wash between him and Pap and they have a replacement in place for Papelbon with Bard.

  90. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    I have a waiver question if anyone can answer.

    Hypothetical – if the Dodgers put Manny through Waiver, who gets to claim him first, Rays or Yankees? give the fact that they have same record.

  91. MTU August 18th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Chip-

    Best of luck to your wife’s friend’s husband. And all the best to you.

  92. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Doreen,

    Thanks for the answer about the field conditions in Trenton and Scranton. These Low A fields look pretty until closer inspection. Little divots, bare spots and pebbles will pop through on occasion. They don’t hire the best ground crews because of costs that are absorbed by the city or franchise owners.

  93. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    MTU -

    Best to you with your family situation.

    By the way I have a new song for you:

    Blake Shelton – “Tonight” & “The more I drink”

  94. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Betsy re: Hughes

    In the last month he has had 8% swinging strikes on his fastball and 16% on his cutter. Hardly any on his curve (2%) but no one is swinging at it (only 20%) and he does have 50% strikes, so its not all bad. Seems like hitters are looking fastball.

  95. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    And you are as negative as ever Betsy.

    No, his rough patch hasn’t been most of the season.

    Honestly, what are your expectations of him? Did you expect him to have the second most wins on the staff this year? He does.

    An all star selection? He got one.

    The second most quality starts on the team? He has.

    All this from the NUMBER FIVE STARTER to start the year.

    How is that a bad thing.

    All spring long, you told people not to get expectations too high for Hughes.

    When he meets, and exceeds expectations, you come up with new things such as, “he doesn’t have swing and miss stuff”. Which is catagorically incorrect.

    He has swing and miss stuff. You asserting he doesn’t doesn’t make it so.

    Strikeouts aren’t the only proof of “swing and miss” stuff.

    CC Sabathia has swing and miss stuff and he goes through stretches in the season when he doesn’t strikeout a lot of guys.

    That doesn’t lessen the quality of his stuff.

    You go on NYYFans website, read their nonsense about Hughes, and then spew it on here.

    They know less about pitching than you do.

    With Andy out for 2 months, Hughes has moved past him as being the second best starter on the team this year.

    50% of being a good starting pitcher is being able to make all your starts.

    Hughes has done that and has given them a chance to win in almost every one of his starts.

    About the only Yankee fan who wouldn’t have signed up for that to start the season seems to be you.

    Now, you have decided under some arbitrary grading system Hughes has been disappointing when the truth is the exact opposite.

  96. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
    I have a waiver question if anyone can answer.

    Hypothetical – if the Dodgers put Manny through Waiver, who gets to claim him first, Rays or Yankees? give the fact that they have same record.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    NL teams.

  97. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    D-Lee has waived his NTC and is heading to the Braves.

    I’m glad for him, he’s a good guy and deserves to play meaningful games.

  98. MTU August 18th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Chip-

    Thanks. I’ll check it out. I was getting down to weeds and stems anyway. :)

  99. MTU August 18th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    I mean’t seeds and stems. Jimson weed is really bad stuff. Nasty.

  100. MaineYankee August 18th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Chip

    When Theo got rid of Manny I honestly believe if he hadn’t the RS wouldn’t have made the playoffs. He was destroying the clubhouse and the team was playing poorly because of it.

    Manny and Pedro were a product of the old regime and they were allowed to get away with things others couldn’t. As long as they were winning they put up with it but eventually it got old for the other players. I believe to a man they voted him of the island. :lol:

    I find it unlikely for Theo to revisit that situation again.

  101. Tom in N.J. August 18th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    SJ, Cashmoney asked an Intresting question,: who gets “first dibs” on waiver claims between the Yankees and Rays right now? Do they use this years head to head record, last years record, or something else?

  102. m August 18th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Oh, yeah. Forgot to say, that I think Hughes is doing a great job. I’ve seen zero complaints about him and his contributions to the team in general.

    With a bit of luck and skill tomorrow, he’ll have a win differential of 10 games. In the middle of August.

    Can’t say enough about the kid.

  103. Erica in NY August 18th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    To bat Berkman or not bat Berkman… that IS the question :mad:

  104. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Jerkface, I don’t know what the ML average is for % of swings and misses on FB/cutters (or what most good pitchers have). I won’t go into the curve because that’s simply a problem pitch for him right now.

  105. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    GB,

    I think the Trenton infield, from what I remember, is hard as a rock in the summer.

    Unless they fixed it this year, I remember that being a pretty quick and tough infield to play.

    Scranton? Not a great infield, IMO.

    I’m sure Chad can speak more to it but, I can’t imagine players liking that infield.

  106. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    Nope, SJ – it’s just a difference of opinion that we have. This is the only board or blog that sees his performance through rose-colored glasses or doesn’t see any issues with him………

  107. m August 18th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    And he’s chewing up as many innings as he’s allowed to.

    He’s been healthy, and not getting knocked out of games.

  108. Tom in N.J. August 18th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    14-5 with a sub 4 ERA is disappointing?

    Tough crowd….

  109. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Tom,

    The first tiebreaker for waiver claims is head to head record at the time of the waiver claim.

    I don’t know where it goes after that.

  110. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    pat August 18th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
    “He hasn?t homered in 75 at bats.”

    Michael Kay said last night was Cano’s first HR in 55 ABs and I thought will someone ask him in the postgame if he was pressing?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    always to tell if Cano is pressing. Never a change in his expressions. He’s always smiling. Must be those love notes that Erin puts in his lunch sack before sending him off to work.

    I can’t believe the pass most players get about their player slumps. If not for two7-8 game stretches with 10 homers in them, Pujols would have about 11 homers. Rodriguez is due for 1 stretch like that. Same with Jeter. Almost every season, he has a month of August or September with 6-7 homers.

  111. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    So you insult me – how sad. Your points are obviously without merit since you can’t make them without slinging arrows.

    Ok, wins, lol – lots of run support (but oh yeah, that doesn’t count).

  112. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Also, who are you to tell me that my opinion is based on some other website and not my own thoughts? Good – I’m glad you’re thrilled with his performance. Let’s check back in a couple of years and see if Phil is this great pitcher you think he is.

  113. Tom in N.J. August 18th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Thank you, SJ.

  114. m August 18th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Can someone dig up the RAB article with the rotation projections? The ones with Bill James, Fangraphs, etc.?

    I want to see how close they were to projecting Phil’s season.

  115. MaineYankee August 18th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    m

    I like the sound of “The Big Three” too. :lol:

    I thought of you when some of us thought it was hard to get to YS. Made me think I had a better chance than you even if it is a two day excursion.

  116. JS August 18th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Test

  117. Chuck58 August 18th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Hi, Doreen! Guess I’ll try GTLU (MUTLU) again:

    [1] LF Brett “New Shoes” Gardner
    [2] SS Jeter
    [3] 1B Tex
    [4] 2B Cano
    [5] RF Swish
    [6] C ‘Sado
    [7] DH Timmsy
    [8] CF Curtis “New Swing” Granderson
    [9] 3B El Nino

    Sorry, Erin – we differ today ;-)
    I think Fat Elvis will sit.

  118. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Thanks, SJ. I figured that the fields up north would be more soft and spongy because of the rain and have holes in them. Most of the fields down here are lightening fast, as you probably remember. They trey to help by letting the grass grow longer, but, when the slow grounders go from grass to those dirst sections, they really pick up speed and bounces, like from carpet to concrete.

  119. Howe Farr August 18th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    “I don?t know what the ML average is for % of swings and misses on FB/cutters (or what most good pitchers have). ”

    I’m sorry to butt in, but if you dont know what the average is, why do you argue that Phil Hughes doesn’t have strike out stuff. If you are gonna argue a point, make sure you have the facts, you just can’t make them up

  120. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    For me, the Hughes’ “discussion” on this blog is as upsetting as the Posada vs. Cervelli one was last season.

    m, I agree with your take.

    (I had to get that much off my chest, but for my own sanity’s sake, I have to learn to scroll past any Hughes-centered posts.)

  121. Philippe in Alexandria August 18th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    GTLU

    Gardner LF
    Jeter SS
    Tex 1B
    Cano 2B
    Swish RF
    Sado C
    Thames DH
    Grandy CF
    Pena 3B

    Bench moves
    1. Berkman PH for Thames
    2. Learns PH for Grandy
    3. Cervelli PR for Sado
    4. A-Rod PH for Pena

    Bullpen moves
    1. Gaudin or Mitre
    2. Logan v Any Lefty
    3. Joba if still losing

  122. Fran the original August 18th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Doreen,

    Here is my line-up:

    Gardner LF
    Derek SS
    Tex 1B
    Robbie 2B
    Swisher RF
    Jorge C
    Thames DH
    Granderson CF
    Pena 3B

    Thanks

  123. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Doreen, you’re upset because I don’t think Phil is a future ace? Ok.

  124. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Howe Farr, hmm……….because he’s striking out a lot fewer batters.

  125. CB August 18th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    “Right – Hughes’ rough patch lasted from mid-May through July; that’s not a rough patch, that’s most of the season.”

    This is incorrect. You’re suggesting that Hughes after a hot streak to start the season has been uniformly mediocre for this entire mid-season stretch.

    That’s not accurate. If you are going to take out his best games and not give him credit for them, well then you should also remove his outlier worst games.

    The reason why his ERA appears so inflated over the period you keep bringing up since mid-may is because he had that handful of bad starts where he gave up a bunch of home runs.

    I didn’t even realize the impact this had until tk wrote this terrific post in the last thread:

    tk August 18th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    The recent discussion about Hughes is interesting. It was pointed out that he has 5.2 ERA in his last 12 starts, etc. It’s important to realize those numbers are largely driven by a period where he had three bad starts in four games (Jun 13 – Jul 4). In those four starts Hughes threw 24 innings with an ERA of 7. A big reason for that was that he allowed 7 HR in those 24 innings, while only allowing 10 in his other 110 IP. Outside of those four starts, Hughes has a 3.26 ERA. Those starts happened, so we can’t just ignore them; however, I think it would be misguided to interpret those selective stats as a proper indication of Hughes’ future performance instead of looking at it as a temporary slump caused by fatigue, and perhaps bad luck.

    So if you’re going to remove his 6 best starts from the beginning of the season (which btw represent a large proportion of the total starts he will make) you should similarly remove that 3 game stretch where he gave up all the home runs.

    There are thousands of pages written in statistics about how it’s problematic to throw away data you consider to be an outlier (like his first 6 starts). There are painstaking methods developed to try to do it in ways which minimize bias (like not throwing away his worst three starts) But on the whole statisticians aren’t particularly comfortable or keen with throwing out data because it’s considered an outlier.

    But anyway, if you want to throw out his first 6 starts, you have to throw out his 3 worst starts and what you windup with is a pitcher who has an ERA of 3.3-3.5 which would make him one of the top pitchers in the AL.

  126. Tom in N.J. August 18th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    “hey I put some new shoes on
    and suddenly everything is right
    I said hey I put some new shoes on
    and everybody’s smiling”

    -Brett Gardner

  127. m August 18th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Doreen,

    Why am I not surprised? ;)

  128. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    CB, where did I say I was throwing out his first 6 starts? I never said that………..

  129. MaineYankee August 18th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Doreen

    It’s like when you tell a kid not to touch something because it’s hot. You know they will.

    As much as you try to avoid certain subjects here it’s hard to avoid.

  130. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    I’m so confused.. I thought we liked Phil??

  131. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Who says we are viewing him through rose colored glasses?

    You really think you are offering objective analysis on Phil Hughes?

    What were YOUR expectations of him this season?

    You lose your mind over every start and continue to overstate his struggles.

    That’s fine but, when you get called on it, don’t get upset because I’m not the only one who has noticed it.

  132. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Betsy , Hughes is above major league average for both his fastballs. His curve and lack of another true offspeed pitch make him an odd strike out pitcher. He can throw fastballs by people better than pitchers with even harder fastballs but there will also be a lot of fouls.

    If he can develop his change into a solid swing and miss pitch he will become truly elite.

    He is ‘league average’ for contact rates and slightly above league average for swinging strike rates overall right now with a curve that just isn’t getting much swings and misses.

    This has to do with the fact that his fastball is filthy, and that is what gives him ‘swing and miss’ stuff. You can teach a curve/change/slider. Can’t teach a filthy fastball.

  133. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    I’m not at all disappointed in Hughes strikeout totals. He gets them when needed and it keeps him in the games longer. He also has quite a few more strikeouts and quite a few less homers than that media darling Buchholz.

  134. JS August 18th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Betsy-

    How can you be so OBTUSE?

    Do you truly believe Phil Hughes should be Cliff Lee in his 1st full year of starting?

    Let’s look at his stats:

    1. He has strikeout stuff: a 7.35 K/9- 20th in the League and better than swing and miss pitchers like CC Sabathia, Ervin Santana, John Danks, etc.
    2. He he well above average command: 2.89 J/BB. Which is 14th in the league right behind Jon Lester, and better than the same pitchers listed above.
    3. He has a 1.23 WHIP, which is well above league average.
    4. He’s 14-5, with an ERA under 4.

    What more do you want from this guy?

  135. mick August 18th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    What is your problem with Hughes, Betsy. Just curious.

  136. Bronx Jeers August 18th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Phil’s K/9 rate is actually higher than CC’s.

    And his BB/9 is lower.

    He’s giving up .55 more hits per 9 than CC.

    I do look forward to next Spring when Phil’s not in some sill competition and he can throw changes and curves till his heart’s delight.

  137. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Shame, for some reason it’s a big deal that I’m not sold on him as a future ace? I guess so……..ok.

  138. m August 18th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Um, it’s a philthy phastball. Wait, that doesn’t look right.

    Shame,

    We do like Phil. In fact we LOVE him.

  139. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Hughes has a higher strikeout rate and lower strikeout rate than sabathia. Not bad company, huh?

  140. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    I would just like to point out that Clay Buchholz, super ace, has an atrocious K:BB rate.

  141. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    JS, again – you can’t be civil? I’m not interested in discussing anything with you. The overall point is that there sure is a lot of intolerance for a difference of opinion. Big deal – I don’t see Phil as a future ace. Why are you getting so freaking up in arms about it? You don’t think there are others who feel the same way? Why do you care?

  142. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    Mick, the problem is not with me – the problem is with everyone freaking out because I don’t see Phil as a future ace. Explain to me why it’s a big deal?

  143. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    Oh, Oh!!!! Longoria just got an injection in between innings. Solo home run.

  144. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    Has the cut fastball replace the slider in most ML pitcher’s arsenal, I rarely see anyone with a good slider.

  145. mick August 18th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    Betsy, do you have as high an expectation rate for yourself as you do for Phil?
    He’s on his way to a successful career. Are you?

  146. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    And an incredibly lucky HR/FB rate to go with it. I do like Buchholz groundball rate though.

  147. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    Bronx Jeers, he threw the change all spring………….

  148. upstate kate August 18th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    GB
    Longo just hit a HR to give the Rays a 2 run lead…I am blaming you for bringing it to his attention that he hadn’t hit one in a while!

    can you work your magic on our guys instead

  149. m August 18th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    What does ace potential have to do with anything? Phil Hughes, after 3 seasons of fits and starts, is enjoying his first full season of healthy success. 2010 is to be celebrated as a huge success because of what happened in his first 3 seasons in the majors.

  150. JM August 18th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    Would never try to change the subject from Phil Hughes, but here is a nice story from the Star-Ledger about Jane, yesterday’s HOPE week honoree, including a cute video.

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....oined.html

  151. Jason Voorhees August 18th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    No one cares how you feel about Hughes’ future. They are simply defending his accomplishments as a 5th starter this year, in which he has fared well. He’s been what the Yankees needed out of his spot.

  152. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Not the, “he’s not going to be a future ace” talk again.

    Geez, don’t you ever get tired of being so negative about everything.

    Its been shown to you time and time again, by more posters than I, how incorrect you are in evaluating Hughes’ season to date.

    Yet, you keep coming up with these ridiculous, arbitrary finalities about his performance.

    Betsy,

    You don’t have ANY idea what Phil Hughes will be in the future. Nor does anybody else.

    What we DO know is, the guy has exceeded everyone’s expectations for this season with his performance to date………but yours.

    That’s fine but, from now on, when he pitches, stop looking for validation from people on here with his performances since no matter what he does, its never going to satisfy you.

  153. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Mick, that question is insulting and I don’t care to answer it. You find where I said he wasn’t going to be successful – what, is it that he’s either an ace or a failure? There’s no middle ground?

  154. CB August 18th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    “where did I say I was throwing out his first 6 starts? I never said that………..”

    You keep referring to the period “since mid-May.” So you’re chopping off the first month he pitched. You wrote that.

    Since I’ve gotten back I’ve seen you bring this point up over and over. He was good in the beginning (his first 6 starts) but I can’t “trust him”, he doesn’t have “swing and miss stuff,” etc because after those starts he’s had an ERA of 5.2 or whatever it is.

    Just last night you were posting this.

    So please, you’ve made this same point as evidence for why you can’t “trust” him etc on multiple occassions and just in this thread you yourself cited “since mid may.” So you are clearly throwing out the strong starts of his in the beginning pegging them as outliers from which we can’t infer his true talent or his future performance.

    It’s just not an accurate way to look at his performance.

    And believe me – this is not a matter of subjective opinion. It’s a well known issue in statistics. Picking selective end points and taking out periods of data one considers to be outliers introduce significant bias into any analysis.

  155. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Fine Jason – you don’t care about how I feel about Hughes and I sure as heck don’t care how you feel. Good – we took care of that.

  156. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    He has to be an ace now?? I thought he was the 5th starter. I thought CC was our ace and our future ace was some guy named Cliff Lee that everyone is always chattering about. Again, I’m confused.

  157. mick August 18th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Other people in here disagree all the time Betsy, without the vitriol.
    You just take things personally and feel like a victim.
    You pound Phil to death, are overly critical, and expect others to not react as harshly as you put it out there.

  158. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Betsy,

    I like you, but that’s not what I said.

    I said the topic upsets me.

  159. JS August 18th, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Maybe he won’t be a future Ace. What defines an ace though? I think the biggest problem is that we’re looking at an unfinished pitcher.

    What if he gets better next season? I’d say that has a higher probability of happening than him getting worse. What if, after an offseason of working out, and overall experience in a major league rotation allows him to get better?

  160. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Whoa, this discussion is getting crazy. Lets talk about the Mets again. Quick Chip, propose some crazy trade!!

  161. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    CB, all I’m saying is that those 6 starts were great, but he’s had a lot more than 6 starts where he hasn’t been dominant. I have no idea why a difference of opinion has become a cause celebre.

  162. mick August 18th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Geez, don’t you ever get tired of being so negative about everything.
    ============================
    SJ
    In the bizarro world, negative is positive, didn’t you know that?

  163. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Betsy, it’s not that you don’t see Hughes as a super-ace. It’s that you don’t see him as very good and not on some of the other pitchers that have more experience. This is the first year that Buchholz has even been decent, but, that’s who you want Hughes to be. Buchholz is more equal parts good and lucky. If his control doesn’t improve and strikeouts don’t rise, he won’t continually have starts like this year. Hitters and the law of averages will catch up. He’ll become more and more like Matsuzaka.

  164. m August 18th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Didn’t Leiter talk about the breakdown of a starter’s season on more than one occasion?

    Like a certain percentage you’ll have knockout stuff, another percentage of mediocre stuff, and then just downright poop.

    Anyone remember the numbers?

  165. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    SJ, I’ll get tired of being negative when you get tired of being condescending.

    How convenient that you don’t want say what his potential is………..What a cop out, especially since when it comes to pitchers, fans are always talking about their top prospects and what their potential ceiling is.

  166. mick August 18th, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    Betsy must be a perfectionist.
    Are you as perfect in your life as you expect Phil to be?

  167. Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    GB, that’s not fair – I didn’t expect him to pitch to a 2.3 ERA or whatever it is Buchholz now has.

  168. Tom in N.J. August 18th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    In 16 of Hughes’s starts he has given up 3 runs or less.

  169. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    upstate kate August 18th, 2010 at 2:09 pm
    GB
    Longo just hit a HR to give the Rays a 2 run lead…I am blaming you for bringing it to his attention that he hadn’t hit one in a while!

    can you work your magic on our guys instead

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I have a new shipment of MOJO being Fed-Exed to me. I used everything I had on Saturday night.

  170. Irreverent Discourse August 18th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    betsy – no one cares that you don’t think he’s an ace, just like you don’t care about their opinions. the difference is that that you rebuff the arguments with “well i just don’t think so” that pisses people off.

    no one cares what you “think”, back it up with facts or don’t bring it up. it’s as simple as that.

  171. G-C August 18th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    “Didn’t Leiter talk about the breakdown of a starter’s season on more than one occasion?”

    _____________________________________________________

    Yes he did.

    I don’t remember exactly but the numbers on both extremes were really low. Something like 1/6 each for starts where you’re incredible or terrible and then 2/3 in between where you have to get through it.

  172. Erin August 18th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    always to tell if Cano is pressing. Never a change in his expressions. He?s always smiling. Must be those love notes that Erin puts in his lunch sack before sending him off to work.

    ************************************

    :D

  173. pat August 18th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Betsy-

    This is said to be constructive and not insulting…….

    I used to have a boss who was a good ol’ boy from Texas and when one person had a strong opinion and the rest of the group didn’t agree, he would say, “if everyone tells you you’re drunk, it’s probably time to go home.”

    Didn’t mean you had to agree with the group, just that you should move on to other conversation.

    When it comes to Phil, “everyone thinks you’re drunk and it’s probably time to go home.”

  174. Irreverent Discourse August 18th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    betsy – his “potential ceiling” was established 4 years ago, when he was a rookie prospect. that doesn’t change now because you don’t like the way he is performing, so he continues to be a potential ace.

    he is in the process of “living up to it”.

  175. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    # Tom in N.J. August 18th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    In 16 of Hughes’s starts he has given up 3 runs or less.

    —–

    Didn’t even realize this. Wow.

  176. MaineYankee August 18th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    GB7

    Bucholz also needs to get over the jitters when guys get on base.

    He has done some better but it still is an issue.

    As Phil matures as a person it will also help him develop as a pitcher.

    It’s not just about stuff.

    I think the time he spent in the BP with Mo helped with his maturity alot.

  177. Irreverent Discourse August 18th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    pat – truer words have never been… commented?

  178. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    m,

    You break it down in thirds…..

    1/3 of your starts you feel great and own hitters.

    1/3 of your starts you have nothing and get pounded.

    1/3 of your starts you have so so starts and you have to figure out how to get through it and help the team win.

    Leiter’s theory, shared by many ML pitching coaches is, what you do with those 1/3 of the starts you have so so stuff is what separates good pitchers from great pitchers.

    If one looks at Hughes’ starts OBJECTIVELY, they will see he’s done a pretty solid job to keep the team in games on nights he has so so stuff.

    Its especially impressive for a kid in his first full year of starting at this level.

  179. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Hughes potential, based on his fastball (which is better than Buchholz), and control / command is that of an ace.

    Betsy, I want you to consider the following data.

    Hughes gets twice as many swings and misses as Clay Buchholz does with his fastball (9% to 4% on the season). He gets the same amount of swings as misses on his curve as buchholz (6.5%) while throwing it for strikes more often. He gets the same amount of swings and misses on his cutter as Buchholz does on his slider. (10-11%), but throws his for a strike 10% more.

    Buchholz gets a 25% !!! swing and miss rate on his CHANGE UP. Which is by far his best pitch. That is 20% more than phil hughes gets on his.

    Clay Buchholz entire ability to function as a pitcher is tied up in 1 pitch which is very good. He is also 2 years older than Hughes.

    All Hughes needs to do is continue to incorporate the change, his other pitches are equal or better to Buchholz.

    Buchholz

  180. mick August 18th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    betsy has hit and run.
    mission accomplished.
    attention rendered.

  181. Howe Farr August 18th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    “When it comes to Phil, ?everyone thinks you?re drunk and it?s probably time to go home.?

    I think this has less to do with her opinion on Phil and her opinion on SJ, it just comes out in anti-phil behavior.

  182. CB August 18th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    “all I’m saying is that those 6 starts were great, but he’s had a lot more than 6 starts where he hasn’t been dominant. I have no idea why a difference of opinion has become a cause celebre.”

    No that’s not all you’re saying. Please. You’ve posted about this over and over, in particular citing his ERA for some arbitrary period of time between mid-may and now as evidence to support your views.

    It’s not opinion. Doing that introduces bias into the conclusions one can draw. That is a fact.

    You’re doing exactly what you were so afraid that fans would do back in spring training. In fact you yourself predicted Hughes would fall into this trap of impossible expectations.

    You should go back and read your posts from the spring. It’s pretty striking that the person doing the cautioning for falsely raised expectations is the one who is doing exactly that.

    You’ve set expectations for Hughes that he can’t possibly fulfill and keep contorting his season in ways which absolutely maximize his shortcomings and minimize his strengths. You keep talking about how Hughes doesn’t have swing and miss stuff therefore he’s not going to be an ace. At the same time you wax glowingly about how good bucchholz is for example and conveniently ignore the fact that his strike out rate is very mediocre.

    You’re picking selective end points and comparisons (e.g. Matt Latos pitching in the horrible NL West) that always diminish Hughes’ season.

    And then you’re hiding behind this notion that there’s no real truth, everything is just subjective opinion.

    I give up. In spring training you were super concerned that people would diminish the season Hughes could reasonably have in 2010 due to unrealistic expectations and raising the bar. Now you are leading the charge doing exactly that.

    Ask Pat M or GB7 what they think of the season Hughes has had. At one point in time you respected their opinions.

  183. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    MaineYankee August 18th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
    Chip

    When Theo got rid of Manny I honestly believe if he hadn?t the RS wouldn?t have made the playoffs. He was destroying the clubhouse and the team was playing poorly because of it.

    Manny and Pedro were a product of the old regime and they were allowed to get away with things others couldn?t. As long as they were winning they put up with it but eventually it got old for the other players. I believe to a man they voted him of the island.

    I find it unlikely for Theo to revisit that situation again.
    —————————–

    You can’t compare the antics of Manny at the end of his tenure with Boston to those of Reyes.

    Beyond the fact that Manny was becoming a huge distraction off the field, he was also being a royal pain over his contract status.

    Reyes is just lazy at times and is able to do what he does because he knows that he’ll never be held accountable by the organization. For example when Willie benched Reyes for not busting it; Reyes complained to Bernazard and Omar and they, in the end, got rid of Willie. That wouldn’t be the case in Boston where Theo has Francona’s back.

  184. pat August 18th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    m

    I’ve heard Leiter say in a 30 start season, you would have 10 good ones, 10 bad ones and 10 you would have to fight through to determine if they would be good or bad.

  185. mick August 18th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    betsy is quiet but lurking…
    don’t feed the troll.

  186. comet August 18th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    GTLU:

    LF Gardner
    SS Jeter
    1B Teixeira
    2B Cano
    RF Swisher
    C Posada
    DH Berkman
    CF Granderson
    3B Pena

    Thank you, Doreen!

  187. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Betsy August 18th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
    GB, that’s not fair – I didn’t expect him to pitch to a 2.3 ERA or whatever it is Buchholz now has.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    But, you’re expecting Cy Young numbers from Hughes in his first real year as a ML starter. Not everyone can begin their career like Dwight Gooden. I’d bet that Hughes career and life ends better, though. Who’s to say what he would be now without the injuries derailing his start in 2007. He’s still learning and at a much younger age than most of the ACES. Other than strikeouts, Big-time ACE Justin Verlander isn’t having as good a season as Hughes, nor is Ricky Romero, and about 120 other ML starters.

  188. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    In the end, I think the talk of dealing Reyes is moot. I think the Wilpons are too cheap to eat the rest of Omar’s contract so he’ll be back next year and he’ll probably give Reyes the new deal that he wants and the Mets will be saddled with yet another mistake for the next 6 years.

  189. Tom in N.J. August 18th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Say what you want Betsy, but she sure makes this place come alive….

  190. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    All you can ask from pitchers in their first full seasons starting is to not embarass themselves on the mound. Hughes is doing far more than that. He is a vital component to a championship team.

  191. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Guys, I think we gotta give her a break. She’s followed and has been a fan of Hughes for a really long time (I know, I know, we have too..but Betsy especially), and probably just feels a special attachment to the kid. He was projected as a possible future #1 in our rotation, and its easy for people to get caught up in expectations/predictions. Its especially easy when you’ve been able to track the kid from AA, AAA and what not.

    I think the point right now is that we can only worry about the rest of this season. Lets get to the playoffs first, shall we?

  192. m August 18th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Thanks, G-C. lol.

    Okay, I found the projections for Phil, but they’re not much good because some of the systems must’ve projected him in the bullpen so the IP is off, and I assume some of the other things would be underestimated as well (like HR and K).

    But here’s the link with more links. Most of the player projections are there.

    Brett was projected at .270/.347/.372. Gardner doing better than expected. Of course we all knew that.

    http://riveraveblues.com/tag/2010-season-preview/

  193. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Betsy,

    I’ll be glad to tell you what his ceiling is from just about every scout I know who has seen him this year…..

    Future #1 or #2 starter.

    They are all impressed with how well he can throw his fastball to all 4 quadrants of the plate.

    When you can do that, its like having 4 different pitches since fastball command is THE most important weapon a pitcher can have.

    They LOVE his mound makeup. They feel he has made leaps and bounds in that area in the last year and attribute that to his successful stint in the bullpen last year.

    They are less freaked out about his secondary stuff development stuff than you are because they feel that will come in time and with more experience.

    Overall, his scout grades this year have been among the highest for a starting pitcher in the league. Pat M will back it up

    It doesn’t match your grades and future expectations for him but, that’s the way it goes.

  194. upstate kate August 18th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    JM
    thanks for sharing that link

    in the spirit of HOPE week, can the Phil discussion stop for awhile.

    There was an interesting discussion on DHs yesterday. Do most teams have a designated DH (yes I know, repetitive) or is it rotated? And which strategy appears to be more successful?

  195. pat August 18th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Irreverent

    This guy was a card.

    I was the only female in a company of 20 guys and some of his more classic sayings wouldn’t make it through the filter but they still make me chuckle thinking about them 25 years later.

  196. m August 18th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    SJ & Doreen,

    That’s it. I thought it was thirds, but I thought it was too simplistic. But then we’re talking about the guy who took off his sock to demonstrate a drill. Still love that segment.

  197. Erin August 18th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    upstate kate August 18th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    in the spirit of HOPE week, can the Phil discussion stop for awhile.

    *************************************

    Agreed. :)

  198. UnKnown August 18th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    So what do you guys think about tonight? Mosely bounce back game? He was good at times in KC on Friday but overall definitely not a very good performance. Intermediate game with the rain and all didn’t help.

  199. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    @Pat
    here is another saying from a Texan, ” Being president is like being a jackass in a hailstorm. There’s nothing to do but to stand there and take it. “

  200. m August 18th, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Sorry, meant to say SJ & pat.

  201. m August 18th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Kind of like the Phil Hughes talk. Let’s just call it a weekly (sometimes more often) affirmation of the good things about him.

  202. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    upstate kate – I think most AL teams have a DH but I feel like a rotating DH situation is going to be a trend. Our DH situation heading into the playoffs will be especially interesting..

  203. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    Rotating DH is the worst. I hope other teams implement it and the Yankees put a 100 game bat in the DH spot.

  204. Irreverent Discourse August 18th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    unknown – i like mosely to pitch a good game tonight (their lineup is not deep at all), but i fear what miggy will do to him.

    Also, i’m rooting for miggy to win fantasy baseball money… so its double-whammy Wednesdays. :(

  205. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    I don’t even known the discernible difference btween 1 or 2 starters, but I have faith in Hughes in a big game , partly because i think he has mound presence and the stuffs to face a good hitting team.

  206. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    There are issues with this team (health, inconsistent offense) that are a lot more impactful on the rest of the year than whether Phil Hughes has shown enough to be considered a “future ace” this year.

    Especially since he may not have to be that guy on this team.

  207. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Really Jerkface? The only reason I think its gonna be used more is because more players are playing later into their careers and many can still do well in their positions but just not for the 162 game haul. I see the position evolving like the bullpens did.

  208. m August 18th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Jerkface,

    Off the top of your head, who would you like to sign in the offseason? Is Thome available? One of the Blue Jays (any one of them) ;)

    Seriously, who’s a good candidate for you? I’m assuming that Vlad will be back in Texas.

    Also, Jorge might not be catching as much as the team would like.

  209. Irreverent Discourse August 18th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    jerkface – just like RB by comittee in football was looked at as “the worst” until everyone realized it kept their players fresh.

  210. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    vice versa, I see Javy on the other end of spectrum.

  211. Tom in N.J. August 18th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Jerkface, I agree. The Rotating DH is an idea whose time should never have come.

  212. Yankeefran August 18th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    The Rays are on a roll. They are winning again. Come on Texas, score some runs to make a comeback!

  213. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    jerkface ? just like RB by comittee in football was looked at as ?the worst? until everyone realized it kept their players fresh.

    RB by committee is the worst. Unless you have good running backs.
    Just like rotating DH is the worst. Unless you have good backups.

    A rotating DH just doesn’t work with the yankees because their bench players are generally super sub par minor leaguers used only for defense.

    The yankees offense crushed everyone in 2009 because they had Matsui OPSing .900 in the DH spot for 120 games. You stick Jesus Montero in the DH spot for 100 games, and let Posada/A-rod enjoy the DH spot for the other 62 games.

    Finding an excuse to give Ramiro Pena more at bats just isn’t smart.

  214. Brian August 18th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    I’ve been reading this blog since PA started it, but only started posting after registration was begun recently.

    SJ and others who have a lot of baseball knowledge and seem like very intelligent people, I have to ask you – how many days/posts will you continue to let Betsy hijack a thread with her Hughes bashing?

    SJ, you mentioned how she reads NYYFans and regurgitates others’ opinions here, but that’s not so. She’s one of the most negative posters on that board as well as here, and many of her posts appear in both places. But over there, she’s generally ignored a lot more than on this site, which is a shame.

    The respected long time posters on this board have to realize you have made the same points to refute her time after time to no avail. She’s not going to change her opinions. I bet she loves the attention. You just keep going in circles with her.

  215. upstate kate August 18th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    rotating DH is the worst because???
    b/c a player who is a pemanent DH just focuses on hitting, and is used to that role?
    b/c you can utilize a player who is a good hitter but a liability defensively?
    b/c every day position players who occasionally DH have trouble getting into the right mind set?
    other reasons?

  216. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Off the top of your head, who would you like to sign in the offseason?

    They could get Thome, who is still awesome, or Nick Johnson :)
    The yankees scored 6 runs a game while NJ was in the lineup.
    Or just bring Jesus Montero up.

    You put him in the DH spot and say ‘HIT’ and let Pena/Girardi coach him at catcher and give him like 30 games to get wet in 2011 at the position and evaluate. He will mash. He has crushed the ball at the DH spot every level of the minor leagues. There is a learning curve to hitting and fielding in a demanding position like catcher, but I think you put him at DH and let him go wild and he will outperform the .750 OPS projections guys are puting on him (ala cabrera/heyward).

  217. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    off season moves

    i would love to see Manny in New York for one year @ the reasonable price, but that’s prolly not gonna happen. he Still is a great hitter with diminishing power IMO

    John buck /Miguel olivo for one year to share the beast of burden with POPO

    Cliff Lee

    and no more Pena and Cervelli as the main backups.

    if Manny is not an option , Luck Scott on the Os, Thome, Jonny Gomes @ DHs

  218. rodg12 August 18th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    SJ, I see your as condescending as ever – big surprise. The only people who ever know anything about baseball are people who agree with you………funny how that works.

    Right – Hughes’ rough patch lasted from mid-May through July; that’s not a rough patch, that’s most of the season.

    Give me a break. You talk about starting him in the post-season because he has swing and miss stuff and then when the proof is in front of you that he does not have swing and miss stuff, you pooh pooh it. Andy has been the 2nd best pitcher this year (or first, then CC), not Phil……..
    ————————————-
    Oof. So much wrong with this I don’t even know where to begin. Apparently, there’s no reason for correcting it though. SJ and CB have done so skillfully but it just falls on deaf ears.

  219. Bronx Jeers August 18th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Brian,

    Over here we practice “tough love”. :wink:

  220. Asd August 18th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    >I’ve been reading this blog since PA started it, but only started posting after registration was begun recently.
    ———–

    Betsy is a lot more respected than I think you think she is, and with comments like that, a lot more respected than you seem to want to be. Her opinion, however negative it may be, if maturely stated, which is all it takes to be respected her, I’ve noticed.

  221. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    rotating DH is the worst because???
    b/c a player who is a pemanent DH just focuses on hitting, and is used to that role?
    b/c you can utilize a player who is a good hitter but a liability defensively?
    b/c every day position players who occasionally DH have trouble getting into the right mind set?
    other reasons?

    Rotating DH is the worst because it constantly shuffles below league average players into the lineup. For example:

    Permanent DH
    Everyday lineup includes a player who is a permanent DH(above average hitter) bench includes backups

    Rotating DH no permanent DH
    Everyday lineup includes a player who is a backup, bench includes backups

    Injury occurs
    Permanent DH
    Everyday lineup includes a permanent DH + 1 bench player

    Rotating DH
    2 bench players

    etc.

    The only way a rotating DH is an asset is if your bench is strong, or you have a DH who can also play the field. For example, if you had an OFer who could play LF and Rf, you could rotate, or a guy who could play 3B and RF or 3B and 1B, you could rotate the DH and keep ramiro pena on the bench.

  222. m August 18th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    IBB to load the bases. Throw a strike, and then proceed to throw 3 straight balls. Oops make that 4 straight balls. Then the next guy (must be a Yankee) goes up and makes an out on the first pitch.

    Anyway, TB up 5-1.

    Weird, though. Matt Joyce PH for Sean Rodriguez in the 5th inning of a game they were winning. Must be a physical issue.

  223. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    upstate kate -

    I think you covered everything as far as cons. It really depends on the make up of your team, but I can almost guarantee that as long as players continue to play into their 40s the rotating DH will be implemented.

  224. mick August 18th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    The respected long time posters on this board have to realize you have made the same points to refute her time after time to no avail. She’s not going to change her opinions. I bet she loves the attention. You just keep going in circles with her.
    =================================
    Brian

    Betsy is using us as her meat ticket to infamy notoriety, call it the Negativity Hall of Fame.

  225. mick August 18th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Betsy is a lot more respected than I think you think she is, and with comments like that, a lot more respected than you seem to want to be. Her opinion, however negative it may be, if maturely stated, which is all it takes to be respected her, I’ve noticed.
    ==================
    Asd
    I respect your opinion but could you please reword or translate what you just said?

  226. ac1 August 18th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    why would anyone even suggest manny at this point as a DH for next year? Don’t need that head-case on this team DH’ing.

  227. bardos August 18th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    The league leader in the AL East looks like it will all come down to the games the Yankees play against the Rays in September.

    But here’s what it looks like. Whoever finishes 1st, or 2nd, is going to come into post-season play slightly “fagolished”.

  228. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Basically, for me the Dh comes down to:

    How hard are we trying to keep guys like Posada and Jeter in the lineup? You don’t need Jeter in the lineup. His performance going forward has to be considered somewhere between 2008, 2009, and this year. Likely not awesome enough to supplant a permanent DH. His days off should be used to play guys like Nunez.

    Posada is a great bat at catcher, but he isn’t super awesome enough at DH. And he is creaky and old. He should be getting full days off not half days.

    Which then leaves only 1 player on the team that NEEDS rest. A-rod! And A-rod shouldn’t need to Dh more than 20-30 games.

    So you budget for a player to play 100ish games at DH, then give A-rod his time. Then you spend the other 20-30 games for the random ‘give a guy a blow’ day.

    Cano, Granderson, Swisher, Teixeira, Gardner. More than half the lineup has no need to be rotated into a DH role barring injury.

    If you have Jesus Montero at DH, you can pick days where Jorge is not going to catch and A-rod is going to be rested at the DH spot to play Jesus at catcher. Its only 30 games. He can’t possibly be atrocious for 30 games.

    If he is just not a disaster you can then catch him when Posada DH’s(matchups). You’ve now gotten Jesus montero into almost every game, and he only had to catch 60 of them.

  229. ac1 August 18th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    as for texas. Hunter was 9-0 then he faced Boston, got lit and faced tampa and got lit. Did he face the Yankees?

    That shows me he is not ready for the big time. Sure you can beat up on the crappiness that is the AL West and most of the AL Central, but show what you can do vs. Boston, Tampa and NY. The excuse in Boston was he was sick. Was there an excuse in Tampa?

  230. pat August 18th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    I asked the other day and no one answered so I’ll try again…..

    Does Pat Venditte have the stuff to be more than a fun story about an ambi-pitcher or is he just a man among boys in A ball and that’swhy he is putting up good numbers?

  231. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Rotating DH: How bad do you want Ramiro pena and Cervelli in 100 games a year?

  232. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Where is Thome playing and how is he doing? It’s interesting his name comes up here now, because just the other day my husband was asking me about him – he likes him and wondered about why he couldn’t be on the Yankees. (He doesn’t have the time I do to obsess about the Yankees.)

  233. ac1 August 18th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    The league leader in the AL East looks like it will all come down to the games the Yankees play against the Rays in September.

    But here’s what it looks like. Whoever finishes 1st, or 2nd, is going to come into post-season play slightly “fagolished”.

    __

    Personally i dont care whether the yankees win the division or get in as the wildcard, as it looks like Minny and Texas will be the other teams in. Dispite the Rangers being better, i don’t see them hangin with the Yankees come playoffs. We know what we get with Minnesota.

  234. upstate kate August 18th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    thanks Jerkface

  235. ac1 August 18th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Where is Thome playing and how is he doing
    ___

    Minnesota and he had a bomb last night.

  236. m August 18th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    It’s not about respect. Or disrespect. No one’s getting personal and calling her names.

    She’ll put something out there, 100 people will read it differently than she intended it to be. Maybe 10 people will respectfully disagree. And then it gets all twisted because she takes it personally.

    So, like today. People said, “No, Phil is having a good season.” And then she comes back with stuff like, “Well if you want to believe he’ll be an ace one day, then okay!”

    I mean, where did that even come from. Not one person other than Betsy talked about his ace potential. But that’s the center of the whole argument. Huh?

  237. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
    Rotating DH: How bad do you want Ramiro pena and Cervelli in 100 games a year?
    =================
    how about those two on the team next year?

  238. rodg12 August 18th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Doreen -

    Jim Jam is playing Minnesota this year for the Twins. Having a pretty solid year. Hit a walk-off homer for them yesterday. ESPN had an article on him today if you’re interested…

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/noteboo.....-clubhouse

  239. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Does Pat Venditte have the stuff to be more than a fun story about an ambi-pitcher or is he just a man among boys in A ball and that?swhy he is putting up good numbers?

    He is ok right handed, they will let him go up the ladder ambi, but eventually he will need to tighten it up left handed or drop it.

  240. Bronx Jeers August 18th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Jorge as DH in 2011 is preferable over Jorge on DL in 2011.

  241. Asd August 18th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Apologies. Itouch posting is not the best. Change “if maturely stated” to “is maturely stated” and “respected her” to “respected here”. That should clear somethings up. I guess my point is that, in my view, those who seem to be respected the most aren’t necessarily those with the most popular opinion, but those who state it without reducing themselves to childish behavior. Also I don’t think anyone on any message board or blog ever, has really expected to change anyones opinion. To try to think you will is boarderline insanity.

  242. mick August 18th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    m

    right now she’s counting hits of posts with her name in it.

    we are being used i tell you…

  243. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    how about those two (NOT) on the team next year? meh

  244. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Jim Thome is a great guy and would fit in on the yankees. He was one of my offseason guys along with NJ if they werent gonna get Damon or Matsui.

    OPSing over .850.

  245. CB August 18th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    “Does Pat Venditte have the stuff to be more than a fun story about an ambi-pitcher or is he just a man among boys in A ball and that’swhy he is putting up good numbers?”

    pat-

    The most telling thing with Venditte is that the yanks know his level of performance but still aren’t prioritizing in any way his advancement.

    They don’t seem to see him as anything special.

    There are a lot of guys who throw off speed stuff from odd arm angles who dominate in the lower minors.

    We won’t have a sense f Venditte until he perhaps gets to AAA and faces some hitters with major league experience.

  246. m August 18th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Let’s just put it this way. Most of us are on the same page.

    Now some want to say its groupthink, but I don’t think so.

    My radar goes off when there is a logic failure. I’ll point it out. I used to do it nicely, and now I do it with snark. Because I’m tired of defending. First I tried to defend Betsy, now I’m tired of defending myself against Betsy.

    Just tired, tired, tired.

  247. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    mick August 18th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
    m

    right now she’s counting hits of posts with her name in it.

    we are being used i tell you…
    ———————————————
    dude, chill, she is not even here posting anymore. you seem to be preoccupied with her more than anyone else.

  248. Bill D August 18th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    “Permanent DH
    Everyday lineup includes a player who is a permanent DH(above average hitter) bench includes backups”

    Texas and Boston, two teams noted for going largely with one DH are near the top of the league in production from that spot. Texas has 19 homers, 93 RBI and an .817 OPS from the DH. Boston has 26, 82 and .869. The Yankees? 17, 58 and .793.

    Highest OPS from the DH slot in the AL? Would you believe the Baltimore Orioles at .900

    Twins are about the only team that uses a number of players at the DH and have it work, but it helps when those guys are Thome, Kubel and Mauer for the most part, with a little Delmon Young tossed in. Twins are getting 20, 80 and .839 out of the DH spot.

  249. Dassit August 18th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Thome is playing with the Twins. Hit a walk off homer yesterday. Batting .273/.391/.593 with 17 HR/44RBIs. OPS of .985. Pretty good :lol:, just picked him up in my fantasy league.

  250. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Jorge as DH in 2011 is preferable over Jorge on DL in 2011.

    This is debatable.

  251. mick August 18th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Jim Thome is a great guy and would fit in on the yankees. He was one of my offseason guys along with NJ if they werent gonna get Damon or Matsui.
    ===================================
    I agree and what about the short porch in right.
    How did Cash miss that?

  252. Jason Voorhees August 18th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    RABBLE. RABBLE RABBLE.

  253. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    I think Jerkface broke down the DH situation perfectly for next year.

    I would not go outside the organization for a DH.

    I would give Cliff Lee a blank check and tell him to fill in the numbers.

    After that, I would think about going to Hal, a la, the Teixeira situation to see if he would (pretty please!) extend the budget to add him.

    If not, I make due.

    However, I don’t let money, or anything else, get in the way of signing Cliff Lee in the off-season.

  254. Asd August 18th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    >pat says:
    August 18, 2010 at 2:58 pm
    I asked the other day and no one answered so I’ll try again…..

    Does Pat Venditte have the stuff to be more than a fun story about an ambi-pitcher or is he just a man among boys in A ball and that’swhy he is putting up good numbers?

    ——–

    if your going to try to figure out what public opinion about yourself is, I’d get a more obscure posting name. ;-)

  255. mick August 18th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    # m August 18th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Let’s just put it this way. Most of us are on the same page.

    Now some want to say its groupthink, but I don’t think so.

    My radar goes off when there is a logic failure. I’ll point it out. I used to do it nicely, and now I do it with snark. Because I’m tired of defending. First I tried to defend Betsy, now I’m tired of defending myself against Betsy.

    Just tired, tired, tired.
    =====================
    As long as she gets the reaction she’s looking for , she will continue.

  256. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Jason, any relation to Lars?

  257. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Twins are about the only team that uses a number of players at the DH and have it work, but it helps when those guys are Thome, Kubel and Mauer for the most part, with a little Delmon Young tossed in. Twins are getting 20, 80 and .839 out of the DH spot.

    Twins have the personnel to run it. Before Morneau was injured they had 4 outfielders who could hit: Young, Span, Kubel, and Cuddyer. If you play your A-Lineup Mauer is catching and one of the outfielders is on the bench and thome is at DH. Thats pretty good.

    Yankees don’t have that luxury sadly, due to Nick Johnsons health issues. yankees offense was real good when they had a stable bat in the DH spot that got on base 40% of the time.

  258. bruceb August 18th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    I read a post yesterday on this site about WFAN and the writer was spot on. I enjoy listening to sports radio but how come virtually every presenter on this station is a Mets fan? I have to listen to these idiots drone on and on about the Mets for hour after hour without so much as a mention for the first-placed Yankees. And when Francesa is away, which he seems to be for most of the summer, it’s even worse. As for Craig Carton, how can anyone tolerate this Mets muppet in the morning? He pretends to admire the Yanks when you know that, secretly, he despises them. I know WFAN broadcasts the Mets games but how about a little more balance and journalistic impartiality?

  259. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    I think one of the reasons that Matsui was not the first choice over Damon was that Matsui could not play the field (or the Yankees didn’t want him to, but it amounts to the same thing) and you lost his bat except for pinch-hitting in interleague play, which included the WS.

    It ended up helping Matsui stay strong, I believe, having that forced time off, but the inflexibility of the situation was not one you would choose if you could choose. Damon offered the optimal choice of a full-time DH who’s bat wouldn’t be lost for those games because he could still play the field (albeit not gracefully).

    So, while you want a full-time DH, you want one who CAN play the field and who is not a liability in the field, so that you can give ARod, et al an occasional DH day.

    But here’s the thing. If ARod’s the guy you’re going to be resting with a DH day, you’re still going to be playing a backup at 3rd base. Even if you can rotate your great-hitting DH to the outfield for the day, replacing your less-great-hitting outfielder, your backup infielder is still in the lineup, no?

    You need a guy who can hit righties and lefties about equally, too.

    Not an easy position to fill, if you ask me.

  260. mick August 18th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    After that, I would think about going to Hal, a la, the Teixeira situation to see if he would (pretty please!) extend the budget to add him.
    ==========================================
    SJ
    To add who?

  261. Bill D August 18th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    “I would give Cliff Lee a blank check and tell him to fill in the numbers”

    Wouldn’t have thought so at the start of the year, but now it’s hard to imagine that filled in number being anything other than Sabathia money. Who’s Lee’s agent?

  262. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Thanks for the info about Thome, everyone. :)

  263. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    But here?s the thing. If ARod?s the guy you?re going to be resting with a DH day, you?re still going to be playing a backup at 3rd base. Even if you can rotate your great-hitting DH to the outfield for the day, replacing your less-great-hitting outfielder, your backup infielder is still in the lineup, no?

    The trick is keeping only 1 backup in the lineup when you want to use them. And considering for injuries. We at a time rode out lineups that had cervelli, pena/russo, and winn in them. At the same time!!!

    That is what you need to avoid. The yankees, while saying they like the idea of a rotating DH, obviously value stability in the position. They signed NJ for the role, because he could backup 1B. They played Posada there for a solid half a month. They played Thames there for a solid half a month. They tried Miranda.

  264. jacksquat August 18th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    The only way a rotating DH is an asset is if your bench is strong, or you have a DH who can also play the field. For example, if you had an OFer who could play LF and Rf, you could rotate, or a guy who could play 3B and RF or 3B and 1B, you could rotate the DH and keep ramiro pena on the bench.

    Or two players who can catch and dh, like possibly Posada and Montero. I think Posada should be able to handle 33-50% of games next year. Plus since you normally carry two catchers plus a dh, you can carry three players who can all catch if two of them are splitting dh duties (most of the time). I think this would be a good way to work in Montero. Btw I believe there is excessive worrying on this blog about his passed balls.

  265. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Doreen, well said.

  266. Asd August 18th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Thome always seemed like a great fit for the yanks as he is a true professional in the world of baseball. I just never thought he’d be a good fit, as he seems like the kind of mid-sized market guy who would hate ny. But that’s pure speculation with no basis in fact, so I don’t know.

  267. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Add Carl Crawford. Left the name out of my 3:06 post.

    Sorry for the typo.

  268. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    You could get Cuddyer in a year or 2 to DH play the OF, play 3b, 2b, and 1b. I understand with A-rod at DH you’re still likely to play a subpar backup (unless they have Laird on the bench!) but the point of the permanent DH is that for 100+ games you have a full lineup.

  269. mick August 18th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    With Crawford in the fold ,who would be the odd man out, Gardy or Grandy?

  270. Bill D August 18th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    “Twins have the personnel to run it. Before Morneau was injured they had 4 outfielders who could hit: Young, Span, Kubel, and Cuddyer. If you play your A-Lineup Mauer is catching and one of the outfielders is on the bench and thome is at DH. Thats pretty good”

    It is. It’s also helped them mitigate the loss of Morneau. Young breaking out for them a little this year was pretty big.

  271. Bronx Jeers August 18th, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Remember Thome ended up as a pinch hitter for the Dodgers last season and he did not do well. Maybe GM’s thought he was done.

    And he’s been pulling “light and limited” duty up in Minny but he’s been producing nicely.

    Against righties his OPS is over 1.000

    Even against lefties albeit it’s only 60 AB’s his OPS is almost .900

    I thought he would have been perfect in NY.

    And he makes 1.5 mil$

  272. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Is 4 outfielders too much?? Can Gardner learn how to catch? I’m all for the more the merrier lol

  273. Erica in NY August 18th, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Having a yucky day-

    GGBG LF
    Jeter SS
    Tex 1B
    Cano 2B
    Swisher RF
    Posada C
    Granderson CF
    Berkman DH
    Pena 3B

  274. pat August 18th, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Thanks for the Venditte info. He’s “rumored” to be on the move to AA to fill the slot vacated by Whelan going to AAA yesterday.

    Mike Lowell as a DH is interesting to me at the right price. He can back up 1st and 3rd in a pinch and the more he DHs, the healthier the hip would stay.

  275. Nick in SF August 18th, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    If Jesus Montero doesn’t have 30 homers by the all-star break next year, I will boo him to the gates of hell.

  276. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Asd August 18th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
    Thome always seemed like a great fit for the yanks as he is a true professional in the world of baseball. I just never thought he’d be a good fit, as he seems like the kind of mid-sized market guy who would hate ny. But that’s pure speculation with no basis in fact, so I don’t know.
    ————————————————————————————–
    I personally think Juan Miranda / insert RH platoon hitter can do an adequate job @ the DH
    If the Yanks are going in house route . Also Jorge Vazquez is intriguing , he has power and knows how to drive in runs. His k/bb ratio are horrible in SWB and his average needs to little higher.

  277. mick August 18th, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    It could be that the plan all along was to have Montero DH next season.
    That could be why Damon for 2 years was squashed.
    And NJ for one was done.
    Just wasn’t a priority this year with the PosDA , Arod dh landing spot situation.

    Maybe Cash had a plan.

  278. Tyler August 18th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    A recently turned 24 year old pitcher making around 400 K a year who is 14-5 with a 4 ERA. Sign me up any day of the week especially considering the most innings he had ever pitched in a year before this was 146 innings. He hardly has any pro ball experience and has been unbelievably solid. It looks like his fast start worked against him. People on here expected him to throw to a 2 ERA all year. All of this in the AL East. What was Buchholz’s ERA last year? It was around 6. He’s been great this year but everybody has a learning curve. Don’t forget Buchholz also pitched in college which is a huge maturation stage. Hughes will be just fine and probably be pass up Buchholz soon enough while being 2 full years younger.

  279. Erin August 18th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    Nick in SF August 18th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
    If Jesus Montero doesn?t have 30 homers by the all-star break next year, I will boo him to the gates of hell.

    ******************************

    :lol:

  280. RayVT August 18th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    mick August 18th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Gardy!

  281. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    Overall I think the worrying about needing to DH players is unnecessary. I’ve said it before, if the Yankees need to worry about DHing A-rod for more than 10-20 games a season within the next 3 years then the contract they signed him to was a massive failure.

    Consider that after those 3 years I’ve mentioned he is still under contract for like 4 more!

    A-rod’s DH days should be in the last 2-3 years of the deal, not now.

    “We have to rest A-rod to keep him healthy!” sure, but not enough to forego a player whose job is to sit in the DH spot the rest of the time.

  282. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    Nick in SF August 18th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
    If Jesus Montero doesn’t have 30 homers by the all-star break next year, I will boo him to the gates of hell.
    ————————————
    not that saying he won’t , but has Jesus ever hit more than 20 hrs in the minors.

  283. m August 18th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    mick,

    Depends on the week. ;)

    Seriously, Granderson is the better player. He’s also more expensive.

    But, you don’t just give guys like Gardner away. And he is important (imo). Could be a leadoff guy for the next couple of seasons.

    How about this? If you add Crawford, then Swisher becomes a DH/OF?

    Could an outfield of Crawford/Gardner/Granderson work? Who would play RF?

  284. Erin August 18th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Erica in NY August 18th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
    Having a yucky day-

    ****************************
    I’m sorry. :(

    Do you need Super Grover?

  285. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Venditte is sort of a Edwar Ramirez sort of pitcher from the right side and a reliever version of Jamie Moyer from the left side, at least in his pitches and speed. Great numbers at Tampa but even at that no promotions over 1 and a half years That and the fact that he’s 25 years old. He’s perfect trade bait to a team that needs a gimmick promotion. KC comes to mind, since he’s from Omaha, NE and a Creighton U. grad.

  286. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Could an outfield of Crawford/Gardner/Granderson work? Who would play RF?

    Granderson, but that is a weak armed outfield. Atleast Gardner is exceptionally accurate and I think Crawford is decent.

  287. mick August 18th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    After that, I would think about going to Hal, a la, the Teixeira situation to see if he would (pretty please!) extend the budget to add him.
    ——————————————
    Werth! :)

  288. Tom in N.J. August 18th, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    Erica, watch this interview. It will make you smile.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr9_5uZn6ds

  289. mick August 18th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    How about Gardy as the 4th OF, say if Grandy fails.

  290. Tyler August 18th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
    Venditte is sort of a Edwar Ramirez sort of pitcher from the right side and a reliever version of Jamie Moyer from the left side, at least in his pitches and speed. Great numbers at Tampa but even at that no promotions over 1 and a half years That and the fact that he’s 25 years old. He’s perfect trade bait to a team that needs a gimmick promotion. KC comes to mind, since he’s from Omaha, NE and a Creighton U. grad.
    ———————————————–

    This actually makes a lot of sense. They love their Nebraska products in KC. One of the games I sat in a section with a bunch of University of Nebraska fans who gave Joba and Alex Gordon repeated standing ovations. They would probably love Venditte. Venditte for Hosmer and Moustakas? Sounds great :)

  291. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    I want to keep Swisher in the outfield though. He has too much energy to sit on the bench. And he actively works at improving all facets of his game, which has made his RF defense pretty valuable.

    Honestly if they are getting an OFer I’d rather see them get a RF slugger type to DH and then you can flip flop swisher/that guy sometimes. I don’t know who it would be though.

    the ideal DH candidate is a guy who can play third.

  292. upstate kate August 18th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    one more good thing about Thome…he is a red sox killer :)

    oh Erica, I hope your day improves

  293. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    SJ -

    I agree. This offseason starts and ends with Cliff Lee.

    Brett Gardner and Nick Swisher have done enough to make the team comfortable in passing on Jayson Werth and Carl Crawford.

    Bring in one other relief pitcher (or keep Kerry Wood).

    The only thing that can alter that is if Andy goes too…in which case the Yankees will need a second pitcher.

  294. Bronx Jeers August 18th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Granted Jerface there are better DH options but I don’t think they’re going to pay Jorge 13 mil$ to cast angry stares from the dugout.

    The foot fracture was just bad luck but then again, old bones break easier. :wink:

  295. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Erica -

    Then I hope you win GTLU. Your lineup is unique among the entries. :)

    pat -

    I didn’t know Venditte might be going to Trenton. Might be worth a special trip to see in person.

  296. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Jesus Montero has hit 17 HRs twice, once in 132 games and once in 92 games.
    This year he has 14 HRs in 107 games.

    He is 20 years old and has already had a 25 HR pace in the minors. Thats real good.

  297. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    GTLU entries this afternoon:

    Erin
    Unknown
    Chip
    upstate kate
    Chuck58
    Philippe in Alexandria
    Fran (the original)
    comet
    Erica

  298. Tyler August 18th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    I’d give Grandy the rest of the season to see how he ends up. I know he looked good in Cleveland and went back to hitting poorly but these past couple games he’s looked alot better. Maybe the adjustments are helping a little bit. And if the adjustments he did with KLong work in a matter of days imagine how improved he oculd be if he had an entire offseason of working with Long. Granderson should be in the prime of his career. There is no way he went from a 20 homer, 20 double, 20 triple, 20 steal guy to a shell of his self in that time. This is the time he should be at his peak. Maybe he’s getting it back….

  299. Erin August 18th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    BryanHoch RT @NYCMayorsOffice: #Yankees greats fill Bloomberg’s Bullpen.

    http://twitpic.com/2fygtv

  300. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    My 2011 25 man roster:

    Jeter – SS
    Swisher – RF
    Tex – 1b
    Alex – 3b
    Cano – 2b
    Posada – C/DH
    Granderson – CF
    Montero – C/DH
    Gardner – LF

    Bench:
    Eduardo Nunez, Francisco Cervelli, Brandon Laird, Collin Curtis

    Rotation:
    CC, Lee, Hughes, Andy, AJ

    Pen:
    LHP – Marte, Logan
    RHP – Aceves, Robertson, Wood, Mariano, Joba

  301. Bill D August 18th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    “Don’t forget Buchholz also pitched in college which is a huge maturation stage”

    In life terms maybe. I baseball terms, no moreso than spending what would be college years in the minors under the watchful eye of the organization and its staff.

  302. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Granted Jerface there are better DH options but I don?t think they?re going to pay Jorge 13 mil$ to cast angry stares from the dugout

    I think he is going to catch. Fracturing his foot from a foul ball has changed the course of this season, in that it has been hard for him to stay behind the plate because of all the injuries piling up, but if I were the yankees I wouldn’t go into next season thinking “Jorge needs to DH.”

    Posada CAN DH, but better to sign a guy who can also DH. That way you’d atleast have a solid bat on the bench at any given time when one of them isn’t in the lineup.

    Also if you’re thinking “Jorge needs to DH he is injury prone now” shouldn’t you be expecting a DL stint? In which case what happens when he dies from a foul ball or pulls his hammy slugging around the bases and then your DH is done and your catcher is someone not as good and now your DH is someone bad (or a regular is now the DH and his replacement is also bad)?

    The AL has 9 position players, no reason to not have signed 9 players for those positions.

    The 2000s have already showed the value of having solid 4th outfielders, and back ups players. Imagine if the yankees didn’t have Swisher backing up 1st and the 4th OFer last year?

  303. MaineYankee August 18th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    pat

    Lowell really is limited in his ability to run. I think you’d have to carefull how much playing time he got.

    I don’t think he would fit what the Yankees need.

  304. mick August 18th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    If you have Jesus Montero at DH, you can pick days where Jorge is not going to catch and A-rod is going to be rested at the DH spot to play Jesus at catcher. Its only 30 games. He can’t possibly be atrocious for 30 games.
    ===========================
    Why the indecision on DH, I thought Jesus was your man?

  305. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Lowell .244 .324 .415 .738 right handed, slow, can’t play the field – PASS

  306. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    If Andy retires and they are successful in signing Lee, do the Yankees take a chance on a rookie for the #5 spot?

    I think they could.

  307. m August 18th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Jerkface,

    I don’t know about your assertions.

    There’s a reason that Jorge is not playing nearly everyday in some capacity. And it’s not because they want to get Cervelli’s bat (and glove) in there.

    His playing time is being managed right now, and it has very little to do with the fractured foot.

  308. VirginiaYank August 18th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Not sure about Chad’s comment about Nunez. He’s had pretty good numbers at AAA. 5o rbis, 23 sb, 288 average??

  309. Tyler August 18th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Bill D August 18th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
    “Don’t forget Buchholz also pitched in college which is a huge maturation stage”

    In life terms maybe. I baseball terms, no moreso than spending what would be college years in the minors under the watchful eye of the organization and its staff.
    ——————————————–

    I was going more for life terms. I agree in baseball terms the minors probably are the higher maturation stage. Probably wasn’t the best example I could have used but Buchholz did throw alot more innings at an earlier age than Hughes. The year Buchholz spent in college, Hughes only threw like 5 innings in the GCL as he was a late sign I believe.

  310. G-C August 18th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    “The only thing that can alter that is if Andy goes too…in which case the Yankees will need a second pitcher.”

    ________________________________________________________

    I know SJ will vehemently disagree but I’m still hoping that guy is Joba. He at least deserves one more shot in the rotation.

    Robertson has the ability to be a longterm eighth inning option and possibly that thing I hate hearing about, the “heir to Mo.” Logan has terrific stuff and could be a longterm late inning option. If Wood continues to throw the ball well he’ll be around next year too.

    Seems like a flat out waste to have him pitching low leverage innings a couple times a week when the opportunity to see if he can still be a starter is still there. If the Yankees have a rotation fronted by Sabathia and Lee with Hughes and Burnett in the middle there won’t be a better time for them to do it.

  311. Bronx Jeers August 18th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    “Don’t forget Buchholz also pitched in college which is a huge maturation stage”

    Very true. In high school he was only a shoplifter.

  312. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    MaineYankee August 18th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
    pat

    Lowell really is limited in his ability to run. I think you?d have to carefull how much playing time he got.

    I don?t think he would fit what the Yankees need.
    ———————

    Eh, I don’t know….if the Yankees wanted a veteran bat on the bench (ala Marcus Thames) Lowell could fit that kind of role, but any more than that, you’re right.

    I would rather see them get a Jorge Cantu, Ty Wiggington or Brandon Inge for that role, but likely those guys are going to look for teams that they can get more playing time.

    Guys like Lowell, Thames or Wes Helms may be the best the Yankees can hope for if they want a veteran bat for the bench.

  313. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Why the indecision on DH, I thought Jesus was your man?

    I don’t follow? Are you talking about my overall discussion of the DH situation? I have to account for the fact that the yankees might not bring up Montero. Or consider him for DH.

  314. m August 18th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    You’re underselling him. It was a heist.

  315. GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Kerry Wood isn’t going to have NYYs pick up his $11 mil option for next year. They may offer him a contract though.

  316. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    G-C August 18th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
    ?The only thing that can alter that is if Andy goes too…in which case the Yankees will need a second pitcher.?

    ________________________________________________________

    I know SJ will vehemently disagree but I?m still hoping that guy is Joba. He at least deserves one more shot in the rotation.

    Robertson has the ability to be a longterm eighth inning option and possibly that thing I hate hearing about, the ?heir to Mo.? Logan has terrific stuff and could be a longterm late inning option. If Wood continues to throw the ball well he?ll be around next year too.

    Seems like a flat out waste to have him pitching low leverage innings a couple times a week when the opportunity to see if he can still be a starter is still there. If the Yankees have a rotation fronted by Sabathia and Lee with Hughes and Burnett in the middle there won?t be a better time for them to do it.
    ——————————-

    There’s a better chance of Ivan Nova going into the rotation than Joba.

    Actually I think it’s more likely that Joba gets traded then winds up in the rotation.

  317. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    GreenBeret7 August 18th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
    Kerry Wood isn?t going to have NYYs pick up his $11 mil option for next year. They may offer him a contract though.
    ———————

    Yeah, I wasn’t suggesting they pick up his option.

  318. jacksquat August 18th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    GTLU

    Gardner – LF
    Jeter – SS
    Teixeira – 1B
    Cano – 2B
    Swisher – RF
    Granderson – CF
    Berkman – DH
    Cervelli – C
    JalaPena! – 3B

  319. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    G-C, I’ve been hoping for that but we seem to be in the minority with Joba.

    Doreen, I want to say thats the route they’ll take but then again, these are the Yankees. I personally never think you can have too much starting pitching. In that regard, I assume they get another arm for the rotation. But this is based on the idea that Andy leaves.. which I’m not convinced he’ll be doing. Either way, though, you gotta assume someone (Andy or Lee) is going down with an injury so I’m sure they’ll prepare for it. I wish Nova would’ve gotten his feet wet a little this year but maybe they think they can piece things together with the starters in AAA for the 5th/backup spot?

  320. Tyler August 18th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    Bronx Jeers August 18th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
    “Don’t forget Buchholz also pitched in college which is a huge maturation stage”

    Very true. In high school he was only a shoplifter.
    —————————-

    More like stole from little poor middle schoolers. Not really a shoplifter.

  321. Pat M. August 18th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    The way I see it, Betsy took such a beating for being a huge Phil Hughes supporter ever since the days of the Santana near trade, that this season it seems to me that Betsy is playing the role of the devils advocate regarding him……I must admit that I’ve been taken back by some of her comments about his progress and the brilliant future that lies ahead for him and the Bombers……..13-7 with a 3.75 era is what I projected for him back in March…..He’s exceeded anything I could have hoped for……He’s going to be a keeper and a very very good one at that…….As SJ pointed out, scouts have been in love with this kid for years…Just think where he could have been if not for some freakish bad luck…….Betsy still carries The Young Master’s rookie card in her wallet…..

  322. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    M,

    I disagree. At the beginning of the season played 26 of the yankees first 37 games missed 7 of those 37 games with a non-DL injury. He caught in 22 of the 26 games he played.

    Then he fractured his foot, and the yankees went into super cautious mode with him. Before that they obviously weren’t being terribly cautious. And then he got injured while batting (of course!).

  323. EA August 18th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    If Montero can’t stay at catcher, trade him for a top 3B/SS prospect….

  324. pat August 18th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Doreen

    Venditte rumored not confirmed to Trenton. Don’t go buying tickets yet. :wink:

  325. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    I also think Nova is seen more as a starter than Joba.

    He also doesn’t “deserve” another chance to start.

    He hasn’t shown anything this year that merits another chance at starting.

    I also think the Yankees no longer view him as an option as a SP.

  326. Chip August 18th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    How about Casey Blake as a RH bench option?

  327. m August 18th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Jerkface,

    The reason he’s not playing as much now is they are trying to manage the cyst behind his knee.

  328. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    The yankees have a college 3B Segedin that, if he can stick at 3B, should move through the system to be able to play 3B around the time when A-rod will need to DH.

    I like him.

  329. m August 18th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    They Rays have just flat out embarrassed the Rangers this week. Tampa on their way to their 5th straight win.

  330. Erin August 18th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    You know things are going pretty well this season when one of the topics of discussion is the Yankee bench for 2011. ;)

  331. pat August 18th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Ledger_Yankees Gardner 7, Jeter 6, Teixeira 3, Cano 4. Swisher dh, Posada 2, Granderson 8, Kearns 9, Pena 5, Moseley 1.

  332. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    The reason he?s not playing as much now is they are trying to manage the cyst behind his knee.

    That didn’t just pop up overnight. He had that this year and last year.

  333. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    No More Lineups for GTLU

  334. upstate kate August 18th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    I am still hoping that Joba gets another chance as a starter, but I am not holding my breath for that.

  335. jacksquat August 18th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Ledger_Yankees Gardner 7, Jeter 6, Teixeira 3, Cano 4. Swisher dh, Posada 2, Granderson 8, Kearns 9, Pena 5, Moseley 1.

    Girardi is killing us lately. :D

  336. Erin August 18th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Darn. At least I was somewhat close on GTLU. LOL

  337. Chuck58 August 18th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Me too, Erin.
    Close, but no cigar ;-)

  338. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    M,

    Posada had the cyst at the beginning of the year in which he caught in 80% of the games he was available to catch in. Do you think that usage pattern would have changed regardless of his foot injury because of the cyst? He had been able to manage the pain through spring and the beginning of the season.

    I think the foot injury scared the Yankees.

  339. Purenyyankee August 18th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Those Loser Rangers never even showed up in Tampa.

  340. m August 18th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Okay, but the foot doesn’t seem to be an issue now. Anyway, he’s catching today. Maybe it was just a tough stretch in Texas/KC.

  341. CountryClub August 18th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    •On Andy Pettitte’s injury, Cashman said that he has no target date of when the Yankees are going to get him back. Pettitte will continue throwing on flat ground for about a week before he gets back on the mound, and the Yankees don’t want to take any chances with his recovery that would make this even longer. Cashman said that Pettitte will “be in meaningful games at some point. We just have to wait on it.”
    •Dustin Moseley “has done a real nice job filling in” for Pettitte, but the Yankees are also keeping an eye on Ivan Nova at Triple-A just in case they need to dip down. Cashman said that it is “nice to have guys like Moseley and Nova to turn to.”
    •Alex Rodriguez’s calf strain is not as significant as the one that sidelined Jorge Posada, so that “probably” means he’ll be out less than six days. The silver lining is that they can use this as a breather for A-Rod to keep him fresher.
    •Pettitte’s injury has no affect on Phil Hughes, who still has an innings limit that will be handled, though Cashman wouldn’t give any specifics. They may taper him off later in the year, as we all expect, but Cashman said that Hughes “absolutely” could be used as a postseason starter — “If we’re able to accomplish our goal, which is to get to the playoffs, first and foremost, then it’s all hands on deck.”
    •Fans shouldn’t be keeping an eye on the waiver wire, Cashman said — “Don’t anticipate any more moves. I think this is the team we’ve got and we’re looking forward to playing the string out and seeing where it takes us.”
    •Gene Michael was in Trenton watching Alfredo Aceves last night. Aceves is going to come back to New York today and they’ll figure out where he’s heading to pitch next. This is basically Spring Training for Aceves so he needs the time to build up and get sharper.

    http://bombersbeat.mlblogs.com....._with.html

  342. Shame Spencer August 18th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    I didn’t mean to imply I think Joba *deserves* a shot at a starting job, btw. I just wanted him to stick there so badly!! I wish the kid wasn’t such a headcase, could master the repetition of his mechanics, and just go out there and blow people away. I’ll settle for him trying to do at least half of that from the bullpen though..

  343. CountryClub August 18th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    I wouldn’t mind seeing Nova get a start in Javy’s place. Not because I’m jumping ship on Javy, just because I think a breather would do his arm some good.

  344. blake August 18th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    I don’t know if Hughes will ever become a “true ace” (whatever that is). What I do know is that he has a great fastball and unbelievable fastball command. If he never improved a bit from right now he would still likely have a good career based on his ability pound the zone with quality fastballs. Considering he’s 24 years old though…you have to consider that he will improve and project him that way. All he really needs is refinement of secondary pitches and experience exploiting counts and hitters…he adds those things and he could be one of the best pitchers in baseball at age 26 or so…JMO

  345. Jerkface August 18th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Few pitchers under the age of 27 can pound the zone with fastballs like Hughes does.

  346. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Pena for 6 days…. arrrrgggghhhhh….. falling off the cliff, splat…

  347. m August 18th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    That’s pretty sad when Chad Qualls is replaced by Randy Choate.

    Anyway, Rangers with a little rally now. Only down 4 now.

  348. G. Love August 18th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Pat M.,

    Agree with your take completely.

    I think Betsy is Phil’s number 1 fan and her spin on his “flaws” is an attempt to control the board’s expectations of him.

    I don’t think she believes he’s bad or not destined for good things in baseball.

    I think she thinks by playing devil’s advocate she’s going to make Yankee fans in here appreciate him more and be less judgmental and temper their expectations.

  349. Tom in N.J. August 18th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    The Young Master will be keeping MTU fit and healthy for many, many years.

    I do, however, fear for Nick in SF’s cholesterol levels….

  350. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    Glad Kearns is in the lineup. He’s been swinging the bat as well as anybody on the team besides Granderson in the past week. I say, ride the hot bat as long as you can.

  351. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    CountryClub August 18th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
    I wouldn’t mind seeing Nova get a start in Javy’s place. Not because I’m jumping ship on Javy, just because I think a breather would do his arm some good.
    ===========================
    consider i was never on board of Vazquezarian , I will second that notion.

  352. Rob_NY August 18th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    Doreen– This is off topic but I was looking at your guess the line up page and it’s awesome. You must put in a lot of work and I think it’s a cool aspect of the blog. The lohud should pay you lol

  353. m August 18th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Pat M & G. Love,

    Really?

    I’ve seen this movie before. It was called “For the Love of A.J.”

  354. Yogi Mantle August 18th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    I thought I read somewhere that Crawford, while he can play CF, doesn’t like playing that position.

    It would seem to me that Crawford would be upgrading LF, Granderson or Gardner in CF, odd man out traded. Having the speed that Crawford and either one of Granderson or Gardner would be nice to see. Having them back to back in the line up and on base would drive pitchers nuts. Double steals would become more common. Crawford might even teach Gardner how to steal bases without having to watch 100 pitches before going.

    Gardner would be easier to move, but I could see either Granderson or Gardner in CF.

  355. Erica in NY August 18th, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Sorry for not replying to everyone sooner-

    I don’t even know if Super Grover could help me today :cry:

  356. EA August 18th, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    It’s Hughes fault that Buchholz has gotten extremely lucky?

    He has the most deceptive .236 ERA ever… bad K/BB ratio, unsustainable HR/FB ratio… he is like a suped up Duce-K… he is good, but not .236 ERA good….

  357. Cashmoney August 18th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Erica in NY August 18th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
    Sorry for not replying to everyone sooner-

    I don’t even know if Super Grover could help me today
    ——————————————
    think of Bally’s noodle bar and blackjack tables and the roaring Atlantic Ocean, maybe you will feel better !

  358. Erin August 18th, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Erica in NY August 18th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
    Sorry for not replying to everyone sooner-

    I don?t even know if Super Grover could help me today

    ********************************
    I know how you feel-I was having one of those days yesterday.

    (and Super Grover can fix all problems. I’ll send Ernie and Bert along with him).

  359. Erin August 18th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    New Post w/lineup

    :arrow:

  360. Doreen August 18th, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    Rob_NY -

    Thanks. :)

  361. SJ44 August 18th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    She’s not playing devils advocate.

    She gets too caught up in what other boards say about Hughes.

    She denies it but, its fact.

    When people point out how wrong she is on how he is progressing, and use facts to point it out, she gets mad and comes up with stuff like, “I have no confidence he can become a true ace”.

    It is what it is. She has been on this for months. Its not going to change.

    He went from being the apple of her eye to being worse than Matt DeSalvo from July on.

    I think his being selected to the All Star Team altered her expectations of him.

    They went from being guarded to her being overwrought he isn’t Roy Halladay right now.

  362. Pat M. August 18th, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    m…….No comment…..Lakers are going to be very good , better than last season, as they are quite deep

  363. Professorg August 18th, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    I think Cervelli is getting a bum rap here. The guy came through in spades when we needed him through the first part of the year with many a clutch hit. Why isn’t it just possible that the guy is in a hitting funk right now like Tex was or ARod or many major leaguers. I don’t care what his
    minor league stats say, the guy has proven over long a enough time that he can hit major league
    pitching. Besides he’s 24 years old! Why is everybody out there so quick to write this guy off.

    One other note. I say it’s time to give ARod some HGH or start curtailing his extracurricular activities. He’s being paid a zillion dollar a year to carry this team when needed. I know the guy is injured now, but….

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