Rodriguez out through the near future
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Aug 21, 2010 
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Joe Girardi said he hasn’t talked to Alex Rodriguez today, and his expectations have not changed since last night. Girardi does not expect Rodriguez to end up on the DL, but he doesn’t expect him to play the next few days either.
“I don’t expect him to play this series,” Girardi said. “And I’m not sure he’ll even play in Toronto.”
Playing him last night turned out to be a mistake. With the games missed already he could have been DL’d and back quicker than if he gets DL’d now.
I think you have to DL him and give Nunez and/or Laird a shot at 3b for a couple of weeks.
pat -
Thanks for the advice about the Tappan Zee – that’s what we figured, even though the maps wanted to send us the GWB and I-95 (We’re going to Harrison today) – even I know that’s a horror waiting to happen!
This thread title made my heart skip a beat……………Alex should be DL’d as they need to let him completely heal and they can’t keep playing shorthanded. It sucks but the Sox have remained competitive without many of their players so the Yankees will have to suck it up and do the same. They need him all the time, but particularly in the last weeks of the season and the post-season, so just DL him already.
Can they find a way to void that awful contract?
/not happening
There is no way they are playing him on that turf in Toronto.
Hopefully, he can return Friday night in Chicago.
As far as Kearns is concerned, he signed a minor league deal for 750K to play in Cleveland this year.
The Yankees could pay him more money to stay in NY and he will get AB’s as a 4th OF/DH.
If he signs another deal with a lesser team for more PT, it will still be in the range of what the Indians paid him this year. All that does is make him a trade deadline guy again.
If he likes NY, and gets a logical offer to stay, I could see him taking it.
As long as he’s in the lineup when I go to the game on Saturday I’ll be happy.
Rich, and who would you replace Alex with?
# Rich in NJ August 21st, 2010 at 11:16 am
“They won’t need Crawford unless something happens with Granderson or Gardner.”
If Jeter is a 100 OPS+ player instead of a 120ish OPS+ player, if A-Rod is a 120ish OPS+ player rather than a 140ish OPS+ player, if Posada can’t be at least a 120ish OPS+ player, they need another bat.
————-
They’d still have to spend $100M + for Crawford to play LF when they already have a cheap alternative in Gardner.
Maybe they’ll need another bat at some point, but I doubt very seriously they’ll spend another $100M to get one.
Montero is much more likely to provide that extra thump than Crawford.
Betsy
You?
I would rather lose than be saddled with that contract for 7 more years.
$30m a year and a farm system that took a big leap forward this season offers options.
JCPD -
Great photo’s, love the web site. Good job, and thanks for sharing.
Catch you all later.
The guy has a calf strain. They aren’t amputating his leg.
His contract isn’t hurting the Yankees at all.
It hurts fans who believe every prospect can come up and produce for less money, which isn’t the case.
DL him now, you lose him until September.
What if he is better in 4-5 days? Why take him out of the lineup for 15+ days if you don’t need to?
Bondy of the Daily News blaming Joe for allowing Alex and Andy to push themselves too hard, lol
Wow, Rich………No, I can’t hit and when I run it feels like I’m running in molasses; the Yankees wouldn’t want me.
This contract could come back to kill the Yankees if Alex is declining now or he just can’t stay healthy, but (a) I’m not ready to say that and (b) I don’t want to lose.
Giuseppe Franco
Gardner is irrelevant because makes no money.
It’s about Granderson or Swisher because of their contracts.
Gardner would play the vacated position.
I love Montero but I don’t think he can give you close to what Crawford will give you offense/defense in 2011.
Plus, depending on what happens to the directionality of Posada, A-Rod, and Jeter’s career next season, they may need more than one bat.
SJ,
It really stinks for Colin Curtis that he’s LH. There’s no RH OF in the system that can do what Kearns can do in that role.
Kearns basically takes the spot from Colin Curtis being RH if the Yankees bring him back which I think they should.
He’s really not a 4th OF here. The way Joe’s using him, Kearns is more like a 3.5th OF since he’s getting a lot of time.
Not to mention if Thames isn’t on the roster (which he most likely won’t next year) Kearns takes up his at bats as well at times.
Didn’t Posada sit out for 6 or 7 games earlier this year with a mild calf strain?
How do we know he’ll be better in 4 or 5 days? He wasn’t better after 3 or 4 days………….I don’t “like” DLing him – it’s not an appealing option – but playing short handed isn’t either.
SJ44
You’d give him his remaining contract at the end of this season knowing what you know now? Really?
The farm system didn’t take such a big leap that you can let Arod go because you don’t like his contract.
There is nobody in the farm system who can replace him. Not now or in the foreseeable future.
Crawford’s contract isn’t 100 million.
Its 100 million plus 40% for each year they are above the luxury tax threshold. Which would most likely be the entire length of his contract.
I like Carl Crawford. I don’t like him enough to pay him that much money given where they are as a team right now.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....OfQesjO7WO
Despite Andy Pettitte’s recent setback with his groin injury, Brian Cashman still expects his vital lefty to be a factor in September and October.
“Pettitte is not going to have a season-ending groin injury,” Cashman told The Post.
In addition, the Post has learned that the Yankees plan to promote Ivan Nova to make at least one or two starts in September as a way to give increased rest to the rotation. Nova, 23, is the Yankees’ top pitching prospect at Triple-A.
Nova has nearly identical stats (12-3, 2.86 ERA) at Triple-A as those of Jeremy Hellickson (12-3, 2.45). However, Tampa Bay’s Hellickson is viewed as a top-of-the-rotation prospect by scouts and Nova is more of a back-end guy. But Nova is going to end up with a job much like that of Hellickson, who also is a 23-year-old righty.
Hellickson initially was promoted in early August to provide rest to a Tampa Bay rotation that was the only one in the majors that had used only its original five members. Since then, Wade Davis and Jeff Niemann have had to go on the disabled list, and Hellickson has been incredibly valuable. He is 3-0 with a 2.05 ERA, after giving up three runs and seven hits in 6 1/3 innings last night in Oakland, getting a no decision. The Yankees hope Nova does not have the same prominent job. Instead, they hope he could spot start a time or two as a way to give extra rest to rotation mainstays CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Javier Vazquez and Phil Hughes and — just as vital — help limit Hughes’ overall innings. Hughes has pitched 140 2/3 innings. The team has not announced the righty’s regular-season innings cap, but it is believed to be about 170-175 innings.
*********
Cliff Lee is a better solution for an offense you are slightly concerned about than Carl Crawford.
The difference between a DL stint now and sitting him through Toronto and having him try to come back is missing a series against Chicago and a series against Oakland.
Who would you want to bring up if you DL Alex- Miranda? Russo?
Laird and Montero are not options because they aren’t on the 40 man now and the Yankees already have a 40 man move coming with Aceves.
Rich,
They might be the Yankees but they still have a budget. Not even the Yanks want a $230-240M payroll.
They have to re-sign Jeter, Mo, maybe Pettitte, and go after Lee as well – plus all the raises you’ve already mentioned.
Montero isn’t going to instantly come up here to the majors and mash. But he’s probably going to be the guy they rely on long term to provide that big bat – not Crawford.
LGY, that’s true for sure.
Is Hellickson (after only 4 starts) really considered a top of the rotation starter? Man, the Rays are amazing – they churn these guys out like it’s nothing.
You can not like the A-Rod contract but to act as if its going to keep the Yankees from getting players they want seems unwarranted. Wringing your hands over this contract is the Yankee equivalent of the Politics of Fear.
Someone else about the McAllister trade to think about is that there are two sides of the coin here.
Some may say the Yankees sold low on him by viewing him as a PTBNL but Cleveland viewed him that way as well.
If Cleveland really wanted to McAllister they would have just asked for him from the beginning instead of a list of players to decide from.
I don’t think there is any reason to think Arod can’t be a productive player for the next 4-5 years.
None of these injuries are serious injuries and they don’t have to do with age.
Dustin Pedroia is younger than Arod and Posada, broke his foot in the same way as Posada and missed more time than Jorge did.
Sometimes, guys get hurt. It happens regardless of age.
Betsy,
If the doctors thought going on the DL would be the cure all for this injury, he would be DL’ed.
We went through the same thing with the same thing with Posada and he was fine in a week.
Yep, Joba and Phil are going to get raises – significant ones, particularly Phil. I hope the Yanks can avoid arbitration, though.
SJ
You didn’t answer the question.
SJ44 August 21st, 2010 at 11:30 am
We went through the same thing with the same thing with Posada and he was fine in a week.
********************************
Thank you! I thought Posada had missed some time with the same thing that Alex has but I wasn’t sure.
“Not to mention if Thames isn?t on the roster (which he most likely won?t next year) Kearns takes up his at bats as well at times.”
Most likely Montero will take those at bats.
I thnk if Montero is on the team he will catch some games and DH the others.
Kearns, if on the team, will play the same role as now.
SJ then I guess the Yanks will just have to play shorthanded; I admit the idea of Alex missing 15 games when he may be ready before hand is not ideal. Let’s hope the Yankees can score enough so that we don’t miss Alex too much…….
Kearns was coming off 2 horrible and injury plauged seasons when he signed up for 750K this past offseason. He has bounced back rather well this year, so you would think he is looking for a bigger payday.
Also, when talking about playing time on a contender vs non-contender, that year is not the only consideration.
Each year that goes by and Kearns is a part time player, his potential earning power in the future is decreased.
“You?d give him his remaining contract at the end of this season knowing what you know now? Really?”
No, but the money was spent already and complaining about it for the next 7 years accomplishes what exactly unless you are looking for a job with the News or the Post?
The $150M over 7 years is pocket change compared to what the Yankees make from being a perrenial playoff team so they will eat the money if they have to.
Giuseppe Franco
I mentioned the $200m figure and that Pettitte not coming back would make it easier. But because they have a budget, a player like Jeter should have to take a paycut, but he won’t so…
Yes, but after 2011 the likelihood that they need more than one bat goes up dramatically.
Crawford is only 28 this season. Speedy players tend to age better. I think he would add a lot.
Actually let’s hope last night’s game was just due to Felix – I thought the Yanks had much better at bats against Detroit than they’d had in awhile
“No, but the money was spent already and complaining about it for the next 7 years accomplishes what exactly unless you are looking for a job with the News or the Post?”
pat
Wait. Because I was against that stupid contract on the day it was signed I can no longer bring it up?
It’s not pocket change as long as the payroll stays at or near $200m because it limits their options.
I don’t like the idea of giving Crawford big $; the minute his legs go, he goes.
“If Cleveland really wanted to McAllister they would have just asked for him from the beginning instead of a list of players to decide from.”
LGY
Not necessarily because we don’t know who else was on the list.
Good point about Kearns though.
For thos ewho keep complaining about A-Rod contract, we were not wining last year WS wihtout him.
If he contributes for another WS, wihch I beleive he will, his contract is well worth it.
I just have a sneaking suspicion that Crawford signs with the Angels. Beltre too….
At the time Arod signed that contract, he was the best player in the game.
Yes, I would have done the deal.
They won a WS because of his efforts.
They sell expensive sponsorships and season tickets because people want to see him play.
His merchandise sales are still among the highest on the team.
He’s one of the reasons TV ratings are high.
He does a great job for the team in the community and in working with the younger players on the team.
He also helps this team win and they don’t have anybody close to being able to replace him in the organization in the near future.
In the end, as with Jeter, the positives far outweigh the negatives re: his contract.
“For thos ewho keep complaining about A-Rod contract, we were not wining last year WS wihtout him.”
The flaw in your logic is that it assumes that they couldn’t have signed him for less. I don’t think that’s true.
“At the time Arod signed that contract, he was the best player in the game”
That’s not what I asked.
“You’d give him his remaining contract at the end of this season knowing what you know now? Really?”
It’s a different question, SJ.
arod not hitting that great anyway, dl him and see him in 2 weeks
A 200 million payroll shouldn’t limit any options.
Its not exactly chicken feed.
Arod’s contract doesn’t hurt the Yankees from doing business.
Arod’s presence on the team makes the Yankees a better team.
Seems pretty simple to me.
Rich
You can do whatever you want but unless you just want to hear people say “You’re right Rich”, what’s the point?
Cano’s contract looks like a bargain right now. Maybe he’d like a do-over? That’s not how contracts work though so howling at the moon accomplishes nothing.
You make a deal and deal with it, hope you get as much as you can for as long as you can and address the downside as it comes instead of worrying about it for years to come.
Rich,
I like Crawford, too. A lot. I love what he brings to the table.
But I’m simply trying to be realistic since we’re not the ones signing the Yankees’ paychecks.
So Rich what do you want people to say? Want everyone to agree with you that the contract was bad? Want to make a Petitions Online survey and send it to the Yankees? What, exactly, are you looking for?
No one here had anything to do with the contract, most people don’t seem to care about the contract either.
Alex will be fine. The mixture of young and older players next season and beyond will make for a good chemistry and a great team.
The kids down below coming up are something that we should be excited about. I know that I am.
Rich,
I would have given him a 5 deal instead of a 7 year deal. Hindsight though is a waste of time.
He had a 5 year offer from the Angels.
They weren’t going to get a bargain on the deal.
Alex’s contract was signed and guaranteed over two years ago.
It’s done. It’s now a fixed cost that can’t be changed.
It can’t be undone. Everyone knows that Hank Steinbrenner got involved and the whole thing turned into a mess.
Fortunately Hank after that incident is now no longer involved. Instead the organization under Hal has gone in a completely different direction from where they looked like they might wind up during the Rodriguez negotiation nonsense.
It’s obvious that the contract is for too much money and for too many years. But that was Hank. And there’s nothing anyone can do about it now unless voiding the contract is something being suggested.
I really hope that contract doesn’t become a constant source of discussion over the next 7 years because there’s really no point. It’s done. It’s in the past. It was far from optimal. What else needs to be said.
If Alex is healthy and not declining, then I don’t care about his contract – he’ll be a great player for us. I will only start to worry if this is the start of his decline……………but we’ll have to wait and see. In any case, despite his lack of HRs this year, Alex is still enormously clutch – he still strikes fear in pitchers. I assume this contract won’t prevent the Yankees from making deals, but it could be other contracts that do, esp. if the Yankees want to keep their payroll under $200 million
give me a break about the alex contract again. he has an injury. it happens. even if this happened when he was 24, this would still have happened.
“The flaw in your logic is that it assumes that they couldn?t have signed him for less. I don?t think that?s true.”
If only we all can go back and change so many of our decisions/choices…….
Sure Hank might have overreacted, but now it really does not matter. The bottomline is we would not win WS last year without A-Rod and the WS draught will still be continuing. How much money did Yanks waste on the likes of Giambi and it did not make any difference?
Yes, A-Rod’s contract is expensive, but still he delivered.
Now so many here want Yanks to give 100m/4 years to Jeter. That would be even a worse contract. Now, do not argue that is a reward for the past contributions. Jeter was very well paid for his past contributions, probably overpaid.
pat
“You can do whatever you want but unless you just want to hear people say “You’re right Rich”, what’s the point?”
The point is simply that there is a popular meme that the Yankees always make the bestest decisions, so sometimes a reality-based view requires that their mistakes are viewed in tandem with their many good decisions.
Why do you think that’s unreasonable?
“Cano’s contract looks like a bargain right now. Maybe he’d like a do-over? That’s not how contracts work though so howling at the moon accomplishes nothing.”
Actually, the difference in A-Rod and Cano’s contracts offers an instructive example in how to negotiate. It’s about leverage. They had it with Cano, but because Hank/Hal ignored Cashman’s advice, they surrendered it with A-Rod.
So thanks for bringing that up.
“You make a deal and deal with it, hope you get as much as you can for as long as you can and address the downside as it comes instead of worrying about it for years to come.”
See above.
Here’s a phrase not often likely said….Hank gets a bad rap.
Any partnership- the Steinbrenner’s are controlling partners not sole owners- require multiple sign-offs and have a board of directors to answer to when making a 10 year $275M commitment to anything. Hank did not act alone.
I’ve seen a couple times how Damon shot himself in the foot with his comments (re: Gardy’s hard slide).
Would he have even made it to the Yankees?
“If only we all can go back and change so many of our decisions/choices…….
Sure Hank might have overreacted, but now it really does not matter. The bottomline is we would not win WS last year without A-Rod and the WS draught will still be continuing. How much money did Yanks waste on the likes of Giambi and it did not make any difference?”
It was foreseeable at the time of contract formation. The owners ignored their GM’s advice to their detriment. I’m not sure why that point is so controversial.
They had leverage with Cano because he wasn’t a free agent.
They had a different kind of leverage with Alex, but failed to use it.
SJ —
I think his point is that the Yanks would have MORE flexibility and MORE available resources if Alex’ contract was more like Tex’s than what it is. I agree the deal is excessive, but I’m not into debating the impossible and re-doing his deal is impossible.
It may well be that this groin injury may seal the deal on Andy retiring. You can certainly sign Lee for less than Andy and Javy are getting combined and possibly go with a young guy or less expensive veteran to fill out the rotation.
Crawford is an outstanding player, he’s just not enough better than what’s on hand to justify the investment. That’s the kind of intelligent thinking the Yankees use today.
The kind of thinking that would have made them realize Giambi was not worth the cost of upgrading from Tino and that Jeff Weaver was not worth the cost of upgrading from Ted Lily.
I like this way of thinking much more.
Jeter is still a very difficult contract situation, depending on his demands/expectations. If he wants anything close to Alex in $$$ or years it just can’t happen.
SJ44
Except it wasn’t hindsight, it was foresight.
“So Rich what do you want people to say? Want everyone to agree with you that the contract was bad? Want to make a Petitions Online survey and send it to the Yankees? What, exactly, are you looking for?”
No, that would be as boring as every debating whether Girardi’s latest decision was good, great, or really great.
Rich
Let’s start at the beginning to see if we can find common ground. Did you want Alex to come back and if yes, for how long and how much?
When you are trying to win every year, you will have “bad” contracts on a team.
The key is to not have too many and the Yankees don’t have too many on this team.
Marte’s contract is a “bad” contract, given his contributions.
Yet, without him last year, winning the WS may not have taken place.
So, you take the tradeoff from winning.
One reason the Yankees have a new stadium is because of the contributions Arod brought to the franchise.
Would the Yankees invest in that contract again if they knew they were getting a new 1.5 billion dollar stadium out of the deal as one of the benefits?
In a NY minute.
Often deals like this are bigger than just the on field contributions.
The Mariners beating the Yankees in 1995 saved baseball in Seattle and got Safeco Field built. The best ALDS win in the history of baseball for a franchise.
The reason the Vikings are willing to pay Brett Favre over 20 million dollars this year is they are trying to get a new stadium built in Minnesota.
They have a much better chance of that happening with Farve at QB rather than Sage Rosenfelds or Tavaris Jackson.
These deals all get done for a variety of different reasons.
Bottom line, the Yankees are a better team with Arod. Now and for the forseeable future.
In the end, that’s all that matters.
There’s a general thought that the yankees always make optimal decisions?
I’ve never, ever come across that as general phenomenon or commonly held attitude amongst the fabase.
Yankee fans have always been and always will be enormously critical.
A player gets hurt. It’s the medical staff’s fault. A trade widely supported in the winter doesn’t pan out exactly as hoped – the GM and the team are idiots.
That’s the very evident reality.
“It was foreseeable at the time of contract formation. The owners ignored their GM?s advice to their detriment. I?m not sure why that point is so controversial.”
Becasue it was done with and it is water under the bridge. CB stated it very well in his post above. Is it that difficult to understand?
pat (and to everyone else who disagrees with me)
There is a reason why this topic is relevant again.
They are probably going to repeat the mistake with Jeter, who unlike A-Rod, is not enjoying an MVP season in his contract year.
I would hate to see that happen.
To answer your specific question:
“Let’s start at the beginning to see if we can find common ground. Did you want Alex to come back and if yes, for how long and how much?”
I wanted Alex to come back if and only if Cashman thought it made baseball sense. He wanted to end the negotiations after A-Rod opted out, and I would guess that he would only have resumed negotiations if A-Rod would have agreed to a contract at terms that would have reflected the discount the opt out would have offered.
“Becasue it was done with and it is water under the bridge. CB stated it very well in his post above. Is it that difficult to understand?”
I answered this point. The relevance of A-Rod’s contract is what it means for how they deal with Jeter. Is it that difficult to understand?
Alex came back on his hands and knees. From a business point of view, the Yankees didn’t leverage it to their advantage.
Furthermore, Alex negotiated in bad faith in my opinion because the home run chase was a big sell (merchandising). Only thing is, Alex knew that if his past came to light it would be a tainted chase. Don’t fool yourselves because he’s a Yankee. He’s no different from Barry Bonds at this point. Only their own fan bases can appreciate the achievement.
But, what’s done is done. He’s a Yankee, and most fans support the laundry. Hopefully he gets better very soon because he does make the team better.
now with arod ops at 830.
there many 3rd baseman that can match that
Tom in N.J. August 21st, 2010 at 11:41 am
I just have a sneaking suspicion that Crawford signs with the Angels. Beltre too….
………………………………………………….
I concur. For the 1st time in years the Angels are not playoff bound and realize they now have competition with Texas. Crawford lives in Phoenix and fits Scioscia’s style of play. Artie Moreno will go hard after Crawford and Adrian Beltre.
Boston needs Beltre but will have difficulty with the asking price of his agent, Scott Boras.
Pat is right, this was not just Hank rubberstamping the deal.
Hal also signed off on it.
Cash didn’t. So what.
Cash also wanted to trade for Mike Cameron, which would have been a bad deal for the Yankees and Hal vetoed it. Turns out, Hal was right on that one.
Happens all the time in business.
As good as Robbie Cano is, he doesn’t bring in a penny outside of his skill, to pay for his contract. Alex does.
That’s the difference in deals like this.
Its not about “negotiating skills”.
The Yankees aren’t hurting as a franchise because of Alex’s contract.
Arguing the unknown, “they would be better off without him” also makes no sense.
Its like Jerry Krause breaking up the Bulls Dynasty and telling everybody, “players don’t win championships, organizations do”.
He never got close to winning again and now is out of basketball and scouting for the White Sox.
Players win titles and at times you have to pay a high cost to retain a player.
That’s just the cost of doing business.
“One reason the Yankees have a new stadium is because of the contributions Arod brought to the franchise.”
Given how long a stadium was in the planning stage (since I was a young person) I would like to see evidence that there would not have been a new stadium but for what A-Rod has brought.
“The reason the Vikings are willing to pay Brett Favre over 20 million dollars this year is they are trying to get a new stadium built in Minnesota.
They have a much better chance of that happening with Farve at QB rather than Sage Rosenfelds or Tavaris Jackson.”
Favre is only being signed year to year. That’s a HUGE difference.
Rich,
Gotta disagree with you, it’s not relevant to Jeter. What made Alex’s contract so bad, was the length and the money he’ll be getting paid at age 40. Add in the fact that Alex admitted to using PEDs.
“Cash didn’t. So what.”
So what? His decision-making is what drives this franchise on the field. But for on the field success, the cash cow dries up significantly.
There’s a reason that the farm system went from being one of the worst to one of the best since he gained control in 2006.
There is a reason that the Yankees waited for CC rather than trade Hughes for Santana.
There is a reason that Hal was convinced to extend the 2009 outlay for Teix.
Conversely, when the suits (Randy Levine) were in charge of the Randy Johnson negotiations, Cano was offered in the deal.
Ignore Cash at your own peril.
“Cash also wanted to trade for Mike Cameron, which would have been a bad deal for the Yankees and Hal vetoed it. Turns out, Hal was right on that one”
A minor mistake. No one bats 1.000. Big deal.
i think alex should just go on the DL, get fresh for the stretch, and make sure we have the full 25 man roster.
m
Let’s see what Jeter gets. I think it’s going to be a very ugly contract in terms of what he can still produce on the field.
ARod has an .830 OPS. Plenty of third basemen can match that.
—————————————————————————————-
Classic case of clueless statheads.
Please don’t quote stats anymore because you have no idea how to use them.
You were probably among the crowd that wanted Joe Crede to replace Arod because he was a better “clutch player” and we had folks quoting Crede’s post-season numbers to “prove” their point.
One of the more laughable moments on the blog.
Rich,
The GM of the team has stated catgorically that Jeter and Rivera will be back next year.
Clearly, they have a sense of what they are willing to pay to secure the services of both men.
If they aren’t fazed by the cost, why are you?
Clearly, Cashman doesn’t believe what he is going to pay these guys is going to hinder doing business or he wouldn’t have come out publicly and say both guys will be back.
If he isn’t bothered by it, I don’t think its something to worry about as far as keeping the team competitive both short and long term.
Mike Cameron, hard to say the results would’ve been the same if he came to the Yankees. Didn’t he crash with another player, too? And their crackpot medical staff (exaggerating for fun) have screwed up at least 3-4 times this season.
Having said that, I didn’t want Cameron. And definitely not for 2 years! lol @ Theo.
“The relevance of A-Rod?s contract is what it means for how they deal with Jeter.”
Inspite of Jeter’s standing and levergae he has, I just do not see Yanks giving him anywhere close to A-Rod’s contract. I would be surprised if they offer him anything more than 15 mil/year for three years and add another 5 mil for 3000 hits milestone bringing the total value no more than $50 mil / 3years. I doubt if Hal will agree to even this kind of deal.
The argument by some here that they gave to A-Rod, they have no choice but to give it Jto eter will not hold. Now this team is run by Hal who does not buy into this kind of stuff. He will be fair to Jeter, but will not be bulldozed into a bad decision.
Which other team is going to offer Jeter that kind of Money. At this time, it may sound strange, Jeter needs Yanks more than Yanks need Jeter if they want to continue to succeed on the field and Jeter wants to keep his legacy. It will be very interesting to see how this unfolds in the off season.
The ARod contract negotiations are only relevant to the Jeter negotiations if you believe that the management process that led to Alex’s contract will be the same one that executes Jeter’s contract.
That seems unlikely.
Now that doesn’t mean Jeter won’t get overpaid. But it’s not uncommon for players to be overpaid.
I don’t think Alex’s contract negotiations map particularly well to Jeter’s in any particular way.
The organization was in massive flux at that time as Hank and Hal were taking over. Alex and Boras knew that and successfully exploited that organizational weakness – especially the notion that Alex would be extraordinarily marketable because he would restore the all time home run record as “clean” player.
So as m said – a significant aspect of Alex’s contract negotiations was that he negotiated in bad faith with the yankees. I don’t see how Jeter is going to do that.
Alex was coming off what was close to his career best season. That was an enormous driver for that contract. The organization’s talent base was very weak and the yankees couldn’t afford to lose him. They hadn’t won the world series in 7 years. All of those factors increased Alex’s leverage – even when he came back hat in hand. None of them generalize to Jeter.
Also – Alex’s contract has come up on this board many times this season. And it’s almost always been in the context of his injuries ergo it was a bad decision, etc. rather than as some cautionary example for Jeter.
Jeter is likely going to get more money and more years than is optimal almost by definition because he’s going to get paid for his past accomplishments and his reputation.
How much he’ll get overpaid is the question.
But Alex’s situation was completely different both from an organizational management perspective and a performance/ age perspective.
Jeter’s next contract, like A-Rod’s, will be more of a business deal than a baseball contract. Is it a smart baseball move, is the question……
Rich,
That’s what people have been preaching for the last month. Let’s wait and see.
Just had to point it out because you used Jeter’s contract as a reason for poking at the hornet’s nest that Alex’s contract is.
I don’t mind because it gets my blood a boilin’. But others can be quite sensitive about criticism of “the” contract.
SJ
Mo is still producing at a very high level, so he’s in a class by himself and I haven’t brought him up for that reason.
Jeter is not producing a a high level. His GB% is up approximately 10% and his excellent 2009 season (132 OPS+) will likely be sandwiched by two very pedestrian seasons (102 OPS+ in 2008, and right now his OPS+ is 99). His defense doesn’t look nearly as good as it did last season, at least to my eye.
How much longer can he play SS, and how much lower is his value at another position given that he doesn’t SLG?
Cashman didn’t control the A-Rod negotiations. Why it is reasonable to believe he will control Jeter’s?
m
I can take it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rich -
I do not agree with you that there is a “meme” out there that the Yankees always make the “bestest decisions,” as you put it.
I think what really is going on is people realize what’s done is done and why cry over spilt milk? Plus, it’s something none of us has any control over, so why experience any angst over it at all?
Get get some errands done before the game.
Later.
Gotta….
Rich,
A stadium being in the planning stages and being executed are two different things.
You don’t think Arod’s contributions helped get that deal done?
You don’t think people are willing to pay big money to see him play?
Go back and look at attendance, advertising, merchandise, TV and radio figures and sales prior to Arod being here and what they are since he has been here.
Its night and day.
The Dynasty teams never brought in the numbers the Yankees have brought in with those figures in Arod’s worst year here. Let alone his best years.
He has made the Yankees a TON of money since his arrival and continues to do so.
Brian Cashman also was willing to trade Jesus Montero for Cliff Lee this summer.
He’s not as wedded to the farm system as you think he is.
He understands the most important thing is winning at the big league level and not getting Baseball America awards for farm system love.
m -
Excellent point about the PED’s and Alex. The Yankees were banking on having the “clean” homerun leader finish his career as a Yankee. It was worth giving him the length of contract to make sure he did it and the money – well, they’d make a lot off his accomplishments.
You can’t look at things in a vacuum; 20/20 hindsight is always great, isn’t it? And mostly, I agree with whoever said we cannot have this conversation for the next whatever years.
If Cashman wasn’t going to be involved in the negotiations Rich, I doubt he would sandbag those who are by guaranteeing Jeter would be back next year.
If he did, he would be an Ex-GM.
“Cashman didn?t control the A-Rod negotiations. Why it is reasonable to believe he will control Jeter?s?”
Because Hal is running the show, not Hank.
Hal has shown again and again he lets Cash run the show, except that he controls the purse strings.
‘You were probably among the crowd that wanted Joe Crede to replace Arod because he was a better “clutch player” and we had folks quoting Crede’s post-season numbers to “prove” their point.”
you fail
i guess you like your clean up hitter to make lots of outs and slg under 500.
30 million for a 333 obp, 485 slg and 818 ops.
your one of those people who believe runs and rbi are a way to judge a player.
btw statsheads, don’t believe in clutch hitting. genius
Sorry. Had to feed kids.
I’ll keep this here so not to belabor it during the game.
“I wanted Alex to come back if and only if Cashman thought it made baseball sense.”
Rich
It always made baseball sense. Cashman wanted 3 more years at $18M per to round out the 4 years the Yankees already got at $15M/per because of the Texas subsidy. Cashman said they would negotiate an extension so he wanted him to stay a Yankee.
If payroll and budget is the issue, there’s an easy way for Cash to work with that- He needs ownership to up his budget by $10 M a year over what they would have forecasted to compensate for the money they gave Alex “without his consent” for 2008-2010 and by whatever amount Cash would have offered him in an extension which we’ll never know. If ownership is willing to put in the extra money, it should be a wash from Cashman’s standpoint.