Nova gives the Yankees a rotation alternative
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Aug 24, 2010 
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Last night, Ivan Nova proved he can pitch at the major league level. The guy was Rule 5 fodder a year and a half ago. Last night he was starting in the middle of a pennant race.
“He was good,” Joe Girardi said. “He was real good today I thought his changeup was good. I thought his fastball was really good today. He threw strikes… He didn’t panic (in the first inning). He continued to throw strikes. I thought he did a good job.”
That said, there’s no way of knowing what’s next for Nova. The Yankees haven’t promised another start. They haven’t promised a long-term role in the bullpen. They haven’t promised a major league job beyond last night.
At the very least, Nova seems worth a long look.
“It wasn’t like he was all over the place,” Mark Teixeira said. “He wasn’t walking guys. A lot of rookie pitchers come out and try to throw as hard as they can, and the ball’s everywhere. His command was great. He’s obviously got great stuff.”
Question is: What’s next? With Andy Pettitte on the disabled list, Phil Hughes pitching with an innings limit and Javier Vazquez struggling, there’s room for a guy like Nova. Expanded rosters are eight days away. Can the Yankees carry, basically, six starters until then? I have no idea. It would seem like a waste, but Nova also seems like a guy who could help.
“We liked what the kid did,” Girardi said.
It was hard not to
Associated Press photo
I’d sit Vasquez down for a couple of starts to rest him and check out Nova.
A very happy birthday to Brett Gardner!
Nova pitched well enough to be a 4th or 5th starter on this team. Too many questions going forward, not to carry a 6th starter.
The kid was great, just 1 mistake to bautista, should’ve pitched him fastballs outside or just pitched around him . Bautista is hotter than Wells. 1B ump missed that call before when Tex’s foot allegedly came off the bag. Bad umpiring last night. Cervelli did a nice job keeping Nova pumped. Another positive was the very smooth calling of the game between Singleton and Flaherty.
I’d let Nova make Javys next start then go from there with it. Let Javy throw a bullpen and see where he is then make a decision whether to reinsert him in the rotation perhaps at Moseley’s next turn or DL him if the stuff still isn’t there.
Skipping Vazquez makes sense here and it might help get his fastball.
I was a little disappointed Nova got pulled after only 73 pitches, but really impressed with his composure. He’s just got to get the ball down. Belt high changeups are not a good idea.
After last night’s performance I can’t see how anyone wouldn’t want to see Nova pitch another game.
The stuff is really good, the control reasonable, and the mound presence excellent.
They may just have found their 5th starter for next season. Time will tell.
I thought he kept his change down for the most part…he threw some really good ones to lefties. The problem was his curve which was consistently up and hanging all night…everything else looked pretty solid to me.
Nova did not disappoint, for sure.
Blake-
Agree about the CB, and he needs to keep that stuff down as much as possible.
When you’re sitting 94-95 and touching 97-98 you can get away with more on the FB.
His CU was impressive.
Almost lost this guy thru the rule 5. Can’t see how that happened. Lucky we got him back.
MTU,
He’s certainly auditioning for it. Obviously if they sign Lee and Andy comes back then there won’t be room but if one of those guys isn’t there then Nova could have an opportunity down the stretch to make his case. Its just one start but I liked what I saw last night very much…especially the composure he showed.
Where was the strike zone last night? A second pitch strike to Cano early in the game was clearly outside and Molina yanked it back over the plate. Meals couldn’t see that ? Then Cano struck out. I believe we had Tex on 2B. Meals cost Cano a huge at bat early in the game.
At this point it seems silly not to skip a turn with Javy, rest him a bit and see if his dead arm can be resuscitated. The way he has been pitching he can take the team right out of the game. Can’t afford to give away any games in such a tight race.
Nova made one mistake last night but he and the pen kept the team in the game and gave them a chance to win. Can’t ask for anymore than that.
MTU,
I think Nova was one of the guys in the potential Lee deal with Seattle as well right? (maybe I’m wrong on that). Actually both starters last night could probably be Mariners right now along with Montero…
Blake-
What a great problem to have. We’ll just have to see what happens with AP and CL, but you’re right, if we get both there’s simply will be no room in the starting 5 next year. What a great backup guy to have though, huh ? Let’s see if he is a keeper.
that called 3rd strike on Granderson in the 9th was also huge. It wasn’t a too close to take call, it was way out of the strike zone. There are often missed opportunities/ bad calls for both teams, you just have to move on, but that changed the dynamics of the 9th.
Blake-
Yes. I think you’re correct on the Seattle thing. How dumb is Jerk Z loooking right now ? He turned down Jesus and Nova plus others for Smoak, etc.
What a dufus.
Kate-
Meals should be looking for one. He sucked.
the umpiring was atrocious last night. Not an excuse for losing but when you consider that the missed call on the Nunez play made the first Bautista homer a 2 run instead of a solo…and the numerous generous strike 3 calls…(the pitch to Granderson was seriously in the other batters box) then it certainly didn’t help.
kate-agreed on the called third strike on Grandy. That being said, the umpiring was horrible across the board last night.
don’t understand why the nfl preserves the integrity of the game and baseball can’t.
I fell asleep and missed the top of the ninth inning. I didn’t see the called strike to Grandy. But the strike zone all year has been a nefarious moving target most of the time (for both sides, but of course we’re highly sensitive to anti-Yankee). It changes a guy’s at-bat. They end up taking pitches they’d never take, or most of the time, swinging at pitches they’d never swing at because they can’t be certain what the call will be.
Frankly, I’m beginning to fall in line with those who believe some sort of techno solution couldn’t be worse.
Maybe they keep CC on regular rest and then pitch the other 5 in order. That should help with Phil’s innings limit and hopefully help Javy get those MPH back on his fastball. At the very least, Nova deserves another start after his performance last night. He was impressive.
I felt like I was watching a late 90′s Braves game last night at times where Javy Lopez would just set up in the other batters box and Glavine would hit the mitt and get the call the whole game. That’s what Molina was doing….
there really is no reason why a techno solution isn’t in place
some of these umps are clueless, not only with their eyes but their thought processes
MTU
perhaps Jack Z did the Yankees an unintentional favor. The Yankees get to keep Montero/Nova. Lee gets the opportunity to experience pitching in the Texas heat, and hopefully decides he would rather be in NY.
it will take a blown call in the 7th game of a WS, probably the final out, to maybe make them consider replay, but not even that would do it….something involving money is stopping them
Major League Baseball does not want accurate Ball-Strike calls, do they?
Major League Baseball does not want accurate Safe-Out calls on the bases, do they?
The technology has been available for years. My conclusion is that Major League Baseball must want to be in a position to influence the outcomes of games, using what are called “Umpires”.
Is there any other reasoning other than trying to avoid adding more folks to the unemployment rolls ?
Kate-
W/o a doubt. It’s the old saying, “The trades you don’t make sometimes turn out to be the best ones.” Just saying how stupid he looks right now. A horse’s azz looks better.
I’m hoping we get Lee too. I’m optimistic but you never know until he dons the pinstripes.
I assume it was Seattle’s GM Jack Z who traded that pitcher Morrow to Toronto for reliever Brandon League? Another brilliant move. Morrow’s stuff is excellent
waiting for the day robots replace umps
Adding: It’s a fact that many of the ups and downs we see with pitcher performances is due to the changing of umpire teams, who each havedifferent criteria.
It seems that a pitcher’s primary job once on the mound is to read the umpire and find out what is permitted today.
Speaking of Molina, there is a belief in Toronto that he is responsible for the Jays pitchers keeping the Yankee bats as silent as they have this year against them because he has first hand knowledge of the Yankee hitters tendencies.
As D-Rob showed last night, it still comes down to execution. You can know what pitch will get a guy out but unless you can execute it, they will hit it a long way.
Bob-
It was. And yeah, you’re right the guy’s a genius. Just like Theo Epstein. Every move is poetry.
they must “interpret” the strike zone.
as if it were a work of art
That HP umpire was a joke. That called strike three to Granderson, he was set up on the inside part of the plate and had lean and turn his head to the right….
maybe when the new commish comes there will be change
doubt it
Mick-
I’d like to interpret some of them out of a job in baseball.
mtu
that is exactly their fear and they umpire in fear
Mick-
Well, while they are umpiring in fear as you say, I wish they would try just opening up their effin eyes.
Just imagine if you or I were as bad at our jobs as some of these guys are. How long do you think we’d be employed ?
computers could replace the human element tomorrow.
most of the umps are retirement age anyway
could you see a robot behind the plate?
some guys would still argue
Mick-
I don’t give a rat’s rear what they do as long as they get it right more often.
If it takes more technology then so be it, IMO.
I have a feeling this injury will convince Andy that it’s time to hang ‘em up. If so, I have no problem with Nova and Lee replacing Pettite and Vazquez.
But I wouldn’t go $ 20 M on Lee. If that’s not enough let someone else pay it.
what it might take is some player snapping and pummeling an ump
mtu
are the nfl and nba better than mlb for having replay?
i think so
86-
You’re entitled to your take but IMO 20 Mil isn’t gonna get it for CL.
So, in your eyes, I guess he’s goin’ elsewhere.
For me, anything up to CC money is cool, and no more than 5 years.
Mick-
You’re preachin’ to the choir. I favor change. Perhaps, a challenge system to start, and go from there.
What I don’t like is that the umpires can not be chided for their bad calls – unlike in the NHL or NBA or NFL where the coaches can lambaste the refs for their obvious bad calls to a point. . The umps should hear it from the benches . Where was that pitch ? What are you crazy? Get your eyes checked ! No (bleepin) way that was a strike !
With 3 series in the books and the one currently taking place, Sabathia has yet to face Toronto this year.
It feels like the opposite of a couple of years ago when the Yankees played Toronto and it seemed like Halladay pitched every game.
The umps have become proactive towards the players , downright arrogant.
That combined with stupidity is a lethal combination.
Add poor judgment and well, it’s like a bunch of drunks umping the games
It’s bad enough when the strike zone isn’t the correct size but when it’s inconsistent too, that’s a real freakin’ problem.
Meals was all over the map last night. How is either the hitter or the pitcher to adjust to a moving strike zone. It’s impossible, and just leads to sh*t.
There are lot’s of things wrong with the umpiring. More than just the strike zone.
Some of these guys ought to get off the couch and out of the house once in a while.
Maybe they can bring their seeing eye dogs with them on the field
mick August 24th, 2010 at 9:54 am
what it might take is some player snapping and pummeling an ump
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now, that would be something to see.
Mick-
Or maybe the players should be able to have THEM ejected if they call a bad game.
erin
i get the feeling 40,000+ would just sit there and watch it happen without lending a hand.
Get Delmon Young. He throws bats at umpires.
“Where was that pitch ? What are you crazy? Get your eyes checked ! No (bleepin) way that was a strike !”
We used to hear that all the time in Little league when I was a kid.
mtu
whatever happened to questec?
That seemed to keep them honest for a while.
Bud is on their side, so the garbage will continue.
Mick-
Don’t know. But there are certainly some sorry excuses for umpires
out there. That’s for sure.
Good morning, all –
1. I think Nova did as well as anyone could have hoped. I think the ball is now in Joe and Cash’s court as to what to do. As a pure guess, they want him to take Vaz’ place in the rotation, and the day off Thursday will help set the rotation in that respect.
I think the bigger problem is how to move Vaz aside, at least temporarily. Do they DL him with arm issues? Carry 13 pitchers until Sept. 1, and go a man down on the bench? How to bump Vaz in what surely will be a hit to his ego – yeah, you can just do it, but without damaging the pitcher who you may still need down the road. Not Joe’s style to just dump someone, he’s shown he tries to support his players.
2. Jose Bautista is full of himself. He sure acts tough, where was he earlier in his career? I think Joe handled the questions well in the postgame, not much he can say without evidence. Whether it’s PED or corked bats, something’s not right here. In any case, not a lot of class on display.
3. When the umpire starts getting known to TV viewers from the first inning on, there’s a problem. That last strike call on Granderson was beyond ridiculous. I know MLB doesn’t publicly state what’s going on w/r to the umps, but I sure hope Jerry Meals’ evaluation deals with this. It changed the way the inning was developing – one on, one out, one run game. He impacted the game, which is not what an umpire is supposed to do.
looks like everybody agrees as not one has taken the side of the umps here.
everybody except bud wants baseball to get better
but the umps are afraid of losing their jobs so baseball suffers.
what a country.
it is time for a Vaz-ectomy.
Mick-
There’s plenty of rotten apples in that barrel. Everyone knows it.
More and more good umps are being overshadowed by the increasing number of lousy ones.
It’s that simple IMO.
I remember reading a month or two ago that MLB had placed Frank Robinson in charge of the umpires, after the blown calls involving a few well publicized games in June (Galaragga’s almost no-hitter among them). I sure hope he shakes things up.
the logical move is to place CC in between AJ and Javy Sat vs the White Sox.
It could be Javy’s Last Stand.
MTU-
Nova was not in the Seattle package….
Jack Z asked for Nova and Ca$h turned him down on Nova and Nunez refusing to include him with Montero rightfully feeling that it was too much.
It seems as if there has been an increase in bad calls over the last few years, and not limited to the Yankees…I certainly don’t think there is any conspiracy out there
There are many good umps out there as well. It is unfortunate when the umpiring affects the outcome of the game. I don’t blame the umps for last night’s loss, there were bad calls for both sides, and you have to move on. Missed calls will happen, especially on bang bang plays. However, there should be a consistant strike zone.
This year has seen more infuriation with poor umpiring than ever before. All TV broadcasts point out the bad ball and strike calls as well as baserunning call on camera. Umpires are human and they all have their different styles of how they interpret calls.
A camera replay to correct calls would not show up the umpires, just make them more uniform in their decisions.
This is the high tech age and baseball is still using 1800′s methods.
Obviously, Selig won’t do anything but the next Commissioner should make it a high priority to overrule umpires whenever the need is called for.
Using the idea that replays would slow up games in ridiculous. It would take less time to review on camera than umpires and players arguing calls on the field and restoring order to resume the game.
Champ-
If that is true then thank you for correcting my error.
Doesn’t change what a dufus the Z man is though. He’s still an idiot IMO.
I’ve already offered a solution which not only continues to employ umpires but also adds 1 more umpiring position to be paid. Give the umpires electronic help with the strike zone using the pitchFX system. Add 1 umpire to the official scorers booth who has access to high def slow motion cameras. If a manager challenges a call, or the umpires on the field need help they radio the guy in the booth who checks everything as it happens and he offers a simple ‘Safe/Out’ or ‘you are right / you are wrong’ or whatever.
Umpires are still around for fair / foul, tag / no tag, safe / out, catcher inteference, etc all the rules which robots are not able to call right now. and there are more of them.
Obviously, Selig won’t do anything but the next Commissioner should make it a high priority to overrule umpires whenever the need is called for.
==================================
The next commish will be a Bud clone appointed by the owners as he was.
They are just looking out for their own best interests.
It would be pretty silly if he doesn’t get another start.
# Bob August 24th, 2010 at 9:58 am
What I don’t like is that the umpires can not be chided for their bad calls – unlike in the NHL or NBA or NFL where the coaches can lambaste the refs for their obvious bad calls to a point. . The umps should hear it from the benches . Where was that pitch ? What are you crazy? Get your eyes checked ! No (bleepin) way that was a strike !
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What are you talking about? Coaches and players get on umpires all the time. Just witness the yelling and ranting Leyland was allowed to do before he was tossed. He yelled at the umps for an entire inning and still wouldn’t have been tossed if he would have just stopped there. The HP ump was terrible last night, I totally agree. But, don’t throw crap like this into the discussion when it’s not true.
Come Sept. there will be many more options to choose from as far as pitching goes.
I don’t want to see it because I think he is shot but Javy could go this Sunday on the road after AJ and CC.
You must throw Nova again at home after that.
Hopefully Andy returns soon and it’s a shootout between Nova and Javy for the 5th starter.
rodg12 – we all know the coaches and managers in MLB refrain greatly, in comparison to the other leagues, because they can get tossed from the game very quickly in comparison to other sports. 1 word and you’re gone. Remember Gardner a few weeks ago Rodg?
Gardner was tossed IN THE MIDDLE OF AN AT BAT
pat August 24th, 2010 at 10:01 am
With 3 series in the books and the one currently taking place, Sabathia has yet to face Toronto this year.
It feels like the opposite of a couple of years ago when the Yankees played Toronto and it seemed like Halladay pitched every game.
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Halladay DID pitch in every series, and I’d go as far as saying that AJ Burnett did as well – Gaston rearranged both their schedules to ensure that they pitched against the yankees in as many series as possible. I’m surprised that Ricky Romero isn’t pitching this series. Then again they gave up 3 runs last night, that should be good enough to win 6 out of 7 times. The problem last night wasn’t the pitching – it was the hitting as it has been virtually all year long in spurts.
Strangest headine ever?
“Sources: Manny Ramirez seen moving”
It’s good to know he’s not dead or in a coma…
Oddly enough, I can live with umpires getting close plays wrong. Most of the time it takes us several angles and slo motion to figure out if they got it right or wrong, so expectations have to be reasonable here.
But ball/strike calls that are inconsistent not only from umpire to umpire, or game to game, but within a game with a single umpire is not acceptable. And the “interpretation” of the strike zone based on whether the guy is a rookie or a veteran, has a reputation for good control or shaky control, or any other arbitrary thing is also simply not acceptable. Sure, there are going to be some close calls, no one’s perfect, but at least show some consistency and professionalism. I don’t remember this many bad calls behind the plate growing up.
I do remember hearing different umpires favored high or low strike zones, but at least they were consistent within the game.
Floating strike zones are not acceptable.
Speaking of pitching – I’m sure it already has been mentioned but i was very impressed with Nova not backing down from the bleephole bautista when he started jawing away after the high pitch. Someone like Vazquez would probably pee in his pants and run to the clubhouse, or give up the homerun on the very next pitch.
When September rolls a round a lot of things are gonna change for the better. As good as the Yanks have been, they’re gonna be even more deadly.
Doreen for next Commish!
Tom-
I think they were talking about his bowels.
Nova is macho, you could see it in his post game interview as well.
Any Andy updates lately?? If he can’t come back and pitch effectively, the rotation of CC, AJ, Hughes, and Javy doesn’t look as impressive for the playoffs. Hypothetically, if thats the rotation we could be going into October with, do you start Javy or hand the ball to someone else?
Without Andy we are doomed
Javy is shot, welcome Super Nova.
Tom in N.J. August 24th, 2010 at 10:30 am
Strangest headine ever?
?Sources: Manny Ramirez seen moving?
It?s good to know he?s not dead or in a coma?
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# Bob August 24th, 2010 at 10:26 am
rodg12 – we all know the coaches and managers in MLB refrain greatly, in comparison to the other leagues, because they can get tossed from the game very quickly in comparison to other sports. 1 word and you’re gone. Remember Gardner a few weeks ago Rodg?
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I disagree. MLB coaches and managers get on umpires just as much as their counterparts in other sports. In fact, I’d say, quantitatively, they get on them more than other sports. MLB umpires makes calls on every pitch, every play. That’s not the case in other sports. More chances for criticism equals more criticism. The quick hook on Gardner a few weeks ago is the exception not the rule.
I hear Damon and Manny are headed to Boston.
To platoon in left.
Nova will play a major part in this stretch drive.
mick – to quote Ron Burgundy, “I freakin’ love you!!”
Shame Spencer August 24th, 2010 at 10:35 am
Any Andy updates lately??
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Chad said in his pregame notes yesterday that Andy has been cleared to play catch and will throw a bullpen on Friday.
don’t be so shy shame
The next commish will be a Bud clone appointed by the owners as he was.
They are just looking out for their own best interests.
…………………………………………………
No team is exempt from bad umpiring calls. It’s not in the best interests of any team owner to see bad calls made on his team.
It is in the best interest of the bottom feeding teams to keep the luxury tax so they can siphon money from the Yankees as the best example.
OK.
Some umpires suck.
We really need AP back.
Nova was impressive.
Buttista was just that.
Anything else ?
I was watching the Little League World Series the other day and saw they started using replays for close plays.
Each manager gets 1 challenge – if he’s right, he gets to keep the challenge to use again. If he’s wrong he can’t challenge any more during that game unless it goes to extra innings, in which case he gets another. So the manager better be sure he’s right before he makes a challenge.
Saw it used a few times so far. Best part was, not only did they actually overrule some blatantly obviously wrong calls on the bases, but it took about 2 minutes to do it from time of the challenge to making the final call. The umps didn’t all go off the field like in MLB.
Now, this can’t be used for ball/strike calls, but if the LLWS can come up with something that helps gets more calls correct and keeps the pace of the game moving while doing so, why can’t MLB with all its resources?
mtu
are we boring you with all this baseball talk?
I thought Damon was leaning toward staying in Detroit? Not that one can really ever trust anything Damon says about where he’s going or not going…
Oh. Sorry. I forgot.
Manny was “seen to move”- his bowels, that is.
Not that anyone cares.
Little League is far superior to MLB in technology, fairness, ethics, you name it.
Mick-
Not in the slightest.
Doreen August 24th, 2010 at 10:46 am
I thought Damon was leaning toward staying in Detroit? Not that one can really ever trust anything Damon says about where he?s going or not going?
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HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
I don’t believe I ever had to HISS at you before Doreen. This is a sad day
MTU
Maybe you can show us some more pictures of naked mountains.
Erica -
I’m sorry. Johnny just leaves himself open for that kind of doubt. I knew a HISS was coming. I was prepared for the consequences of my statement.
Too funny for words.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb
Why waste the money on a statue when they could just stick the original out there and have the same thing?
Vazquez can basically be hidden because of his “dead arm” and slot Ivan Nova in his rotation spot. The next time Vazquez should take the ball is well into September when the team feels comfortable with where they are in the standings. Unless he suddenly finds location and another 5 MPH on his fastball, he won’t be back next year nor will he be on the postseason roster.
There is no way a manager or a coach in baseball yaps at the umps as much or more as an NHL, NFL, or NBA coach. Its not as easily tolerated. Not sure what game you’ve been watching rodg12. How many times did Joe G or Pena yap at Meals last night. Not once.
As awful as Vazquez has been, as inconsistent as AJ has been, and as unreliable as Moseley has been in his career, it’s obvious that Nova ia getting another start.
Damon is in the process of seeing how quickly he can grow more hair before deciding on a return to Boston. Possibly Manny Ramirez can snip some of his dreadlocks and Damon can gorilla glue them on to get back some his old Boston look. Fans up there are gullible and will fall for anything.
jerkface – I have had the same thought about putting a 5th umpire in the booth, and having access to the replays with a wireless device to call down. He’s used if the umps on the field request help. Seems logical, doesn’t it?
# Bob August 24th, 2010 at 10:54 am
There is no way a manager or a coach in baseball yaps at the umps as much or more as an NHL, NFL, or NBA coach. Its not as easily tolerated. Not sure what game you’ve been watching rodg12. How many times did Joe G or Pena yap at Meals last night. Not once.
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Seriously? They showed each them yelling at him on multiple occasions last night. And that’s just what the Yes Network decided to show. This isn’t like the NFL or NHL or NBA where the camera shows shots of the bench while the action is taking place and you can, therefore, see the coaches more.
Seems logical, doesn?t it?
–
Everybody wins.
“I hear Damon and Manny are headed to Boston.”
The entertainment value would be high but Manny is going to cost $4 million for the next month because of his buy-out.
Maybe the Sox will sign him and do a reality show!
Manny driving cross country in an RV picking up Trot Nixon, Pedro, Kevin Millar and all the 2004 team’s players and then having an Old Timers Month in Fenway in September to celebrate the 2004 season.
Doreen August 24th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Erica -
I?m sorry. Johnny just leaves himself open for that kind of doubt. I knew a HISS was coming. I was prepared for the consequences of my statement.
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Its okay.. you aren’t any worse than my own father was last night.
He called me to tell me he thinks Johnny is going to Boston and is just waiting for more money
GB, I checked out your hometown, and it looks very nice. It would be the perfect spot for a winter LOHUD gathering. Shall I send you some food ideas?
I’m not sure what Damon has to lose by going to Boston.. I’m also not sure what exactly he has to gain. If they don’t make the playoffs and the guy doesn’t perform well, he’ll be even more of a villain there.
Personally, I’d like for him to go back. Playing those games against Boston with Johnny’s noodle arm in left field sounds appealing.
Good morning, Joe. Hope all is going well, and the grill is clean.
The only problem with using a 5th umpire in the booth is that they aren’t likely to call out a fellow umpire and it’s even less likely that a field umpire will ask for help. The only way a 5th person in the booth works is if he has no connections to the umpires at all. He’d need to be completely anonymous to everyone and hired jointly by MLB and the player’s association.
From the perspective of Johnny Damon, he is in a total catch-22. Here are his options:
1) Stay in Detroit-
Pros: Already there.
Cons: They do not want him, they don’t want to pay him, and basically can make for an unpleasent remainder of the season
2) Go to Boston
Pros: Has winning history there. They can sweeten deal with more money
Cons: Kind of burned that bridge. And said just last week that he did not enjoy his time in Boston. If they sweeten the deal with more money, everyone will call him a mercenary and say he sold out.
Shame Spencer August 24th, 2010 at 11:08 am
I?m not sure what Damon has to lose by going to Boston.. I?m also not sure what exactly he has to gain. If they don?t make the playoffs and the guy doesn?t perform well, he?ll be even more of a villain there.
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Read my 11:09 comment
I am rather proud of a full, well-thought out baseball post
austinmac August 24th, 2010 at 11:08 am
GB, I checked out your hometown, and it looks very nice. It would be the perfect spot for a winter LOHUD gathering. Shall I send you some food ideas?
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Sounds good, Mac. We’ll just send the list of food items to Joe in Long Island. He’s the board grill master. Let him put together the menus with what types of wine. We could even invite him to eat with us…even though he never invites us over for a cookout.
mick -
I disagree, the umps are not afraid of losing their jobs, that’s why they are as bad as they are. If they were being properly reviewed and evaluated, then they would have a reason to fear for their jobs.
Yahoo column on Manny & Johnny!
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....rays082310
GB – good morning to you –
Yeah, that would require a bit of a culture change for the umpires, to acknowledge that they are not always right on the field, and to ask for help. However, if they admit that their primary responsibility is getting the calls right – gee, what a concept – then they can make the adjustment.
My grill is always ready!
The umpires already have to be wrong or right on weird HR calls that they go to a review, if you give them the tools to use it I think they will. They also huddle up on certain calls in which, invariably, they will be right or wrong.
Its not like everyone gets to hear what the booth guy is saying.
Erica -
I think you went a bit far on your Detroit cons. Just because they put him on waivers in August and would allow him to go to Boston doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t want him or don’t want to pay him. With a manager like Leyland in place, I doubt it would an unpleasant remainder of the season unless Johnny himself made it that way. Just my .02.
Oh, and congrats on the win last week. Heck of a showing by your squad.
Erica,
You cover the main points pretty well but there is also that issue of Johnny having to be a full time player in Boston. I’m sure if the money is right the guy will show up wherever they ask but he’s clearly not capable of being an everyday fielder at this stage in his career. Thats why I think he stays in Detroit. If he goes to Boston and its clear to everyone he can’t hold his own out there, he’s not doing himself any favors for the off season where he’ll be trying to find a new employer. At least at this point he can still pretend he’s got value as a fielder.
Erica
I’d like to think Johnny is weighing your feelings into his decision too.
Oh and in regards to the umpires – if the technology is there they’ll sorta HAVE to use it. Imagine if they don’t while Michael Kay is sitting there reviewing the plays on live broadcasts… erroneous!!!
rodg12 August 24th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Oh, and congrats on the win last week. Heck of a showing by your squad.
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Thanks Rodg-
I was pretty excited. I actually had the highest points of all the teams. Aside from a few bad starts, it was one of those weeks where mostly everything clicked.
If I don’t stink for the rest of the season I think I have an outside chance of making the playoffs.
GB – You have a standing invite to grill with me, anytime you’re willing to expose yourself to us Northeners. I’d even be willing to have randy over, just for entertainment value.
Shame Spencer August 24th, 2010 at 11:16 am
Erica,
You cover the main points pretty well but there is also that issue of Johnny having to be a full time player in Boston. I?m sure if the money is right the guy will show up wherever they ask but he?s clearly not capable of being an everyday fielder at this stage in his career. Thats why I think he stays in Detroit. If he goes to Boston and its clear to everyone he can?t hold his own out there, he?s not doing himself any favors for the off season where he?ll be trying to find a new employer. At least at this point he can still pretend he?s got value as a fielder.
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Actually, playing fuller time could maybe benefit Johnny at this point. Follow my logic on this:
Johnny is in the last month and a half of a one year deal and will be looking for more money and a new contract at the end of the season.
He has been playing more or less part time all season and should be in relatively rested shape. If he has to play more for rest of the season (only a month and week), to show he is still a viable player who can earn 10m next year, it could be in his best interest
Boston can’t give Damon more money as part of the deal. They are not going to sign him to extension just to get him to come there for a month and a half. Absolutely no way that happens.
There’s 1.8 million left on his deal. They’re willing to pay it. Detroit apparently would like to shed that money.
Damon’s having a crisis of conscience right now. He knows what he said and how he felt about Boston and he knows by going back there he’s going to have to deal with questions about the past 5 years and in the process might have to rip the Yankees to make the Boston media get off his back. Now that shouldn’t matter to him. He’s not a Yankee.
But from the sounds of things he thought he’d be a Yankee again or a Ray when he hit waivers and the doomsday scenario that’s presented itself comes with a lot of strings attached.
I think in the end he goes to Boston, makes up with the fans and that’s that.
It’s in his best interest to be playing meaningful games in Sept.
He is still playing for another contract and if he wants even 4 million dollar offers next year he still has to show something.
pat August 24th, 2010 at 11:17 am
Erica
I?d like to think Johnny is weighing your feelings into his decision too.
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In my 12-step Johnny program, I am moving on to acceptance.
If Johnny considered my feelings, he would have been a Yankee in 2010 to begin with
Erica, you only have to accept the things you cannot change. Surely, Johnny knows what this move would do to your relationship. You must remind him. You are, in my opinion, an ideal imaginary girlfriend.
Come to think of it, I would have been frequently better off with imaginary rather than real girlfriends. At this point, I am not allowed any, whether real or imagined.
Good point Erica, but in my scenario the guy got injured running into the Green Monster or something. I guess we’ll see how this plays out in the next couple days when Johnny finally comes to a decision. At least if he goes to Boston we’ll have something fun to discuss (and you get to see Johnny play quite a few more games against the Yanks).
Not sure exactly what Boston’s objective was in claiming Damon. What they need – competent play in the outfield – he can’t give them. While he may still be an effective hitter, the DH spot is already filled. And to put him in the OF, represents quite a risk for a team that has little margin for error, IMO.
I think that their real objective was to block him from going to Tampa or NY, where he could fulfill that role of hitter off the bench. I think they’re counting on him refusing. Just my $.02.
Joe from Long Island August 24th, 2010 at 11:20 am
GB – You have a standing invite to grill with me, anytime you’re willing to expose yourself to us Northeners. I’d even be willing to have randy over, just for entertainment value.
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Joe, I wouldn’t embarras s you. I was born and raised in Michigan, so I have northern manners. I’m not sure about inviting Randy, though. All he wants to talk about is golf. Not sure why, though. He can’t play it to save his life. The best thing about him is he’s richer than god, so he can buy the food, wine and pick up the tab for flying people in….Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Willie Nelson…everybody except Springsteen. He’ll end up dragging some fat, bearded sports writer along.
Wouldn’t the money Johnny makes for the rest of this season be exactly the same in either Detroit or Boston?
While not quite in Erica’s league, I have been a Johnny D fan for a long time, even when he was w/ the sox. I was disappointed he didn’t come back this year, but didn’t mind him going to the Tigers. I thought Detroit had a good chance to contend this year, at least before the injuries, and thought he could help them.
I was happy the fans gave him an extended ovation when he returned to YS. I wont feel that way if he goes back to the dark side. JD isn’t going to be the missing piece to bring the sox to the promised land. He should realize they only claimed him to keep him from the Rays/Yankees, not b/c they think he is the difference maker. He gets his money regardless, I hope he stays put and doesn’t tarnish his image.
From Ed Price-
“Detroit gets a jump on 2011, which all along was its target season. The Tigers have more than $70 million coming off the books, so they can be a player for Cliff Lee in the free-agent market and also address needs at shortstop, third base (perhaps Inge at a lower price) and perhaps the outfield.”
And I just had a flash forward of Damon staying in Detroit, making recruiting calls to Lee and telling the media how much Jeter would love Detroit.
Nick in SF August 24th, 2010 at 11:33 am
Wouldn’t the money Johnny makes for the rest of this season be exactly the same in either Detroit or Boston?
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Except for state and local taxes
“Wouldn?t the money Johnny makes for the rest of this season be exactly the same in either Detroit or Boston?”
I believe so unless one of them is forced to write him a contract for next year to get him to waive the no-trade.
pat August 24th, 2010 at 11:36 am
From Ed Price-
“Detroit gets a jump on 2011, which all along was its target season. The Tigers have more than $70 million coming off the books, so they can be a player for Cliff Lee in the free-agent market and also address needs at shortstop, third base (perhaps Inge at a lower price) and perhaps the outfield.”
And I just had a flash forward of Damon staying in Detroit, making recruiting calls to Lee and telling the media how much Jeter would love Detroit.
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I can see Jeter playing in Detroit for the next 4 years.
About 4 games a year.
GB – If you can get rid of Matt, I’ll throw you the biggest bash this side of the East River. We’ll have the finest beef along with the finest swill around. Put Randy, and your favorite sports writer, at the table, and once everyone’s appropriatley lubricated, it will a night to remember.
Think I’ll start working on the menu. Just got to take care of my day job now.
Later.
oh that was good GB
upstate kate August 24th, 2010 at 11:34 am
While not quite in Erica?s league, I have been a Johnny D fan for a long time, even when he was w/ the sox. I was disappointed he didn?t come back this year, but didn?t mind him going to the Tigers. I thought Detroit had a good chance to contend this year, at least before the injuries, and thought he could help them.
I was happy the fans gave him an extended ovation when he returned to YS. I wont feel that way if he goes back to the dark side. JD isn?t going to be the missing piece to bring the sox to the promised land. He should realize they only claimed him to keep him from the Rays/Yankees, not b/c they think he is the difference maker. He gets his money regardless, I hope he stays put and doesn?t tarnish his image.
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I hate to say this, but even I would have issues rooting for MPB Johnny Damon if he went to Boston
GB, that’s quite the party you’re planning. BTW, if Paul McCartney is being flown in, I demand an invite.
Erin August 24th, 2010 at 11:43 am
GB, that’s quite the party you’re planning. BTW, if Paul McCartney is being flown in, I demand an invite
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Of course you are, Erin. After all, Joe’s cooking and Randy’s picking up the entire tab. Every Lohudder that’s anybody, except for trolls and slugs will be there. We’ll declare it a muppet-free zone.
GreenBeret7 August 24th, 2010 at 11:46 am
Of course you are, Erin. After all, Joe?s cooking and Randy?s picking up the entire tab. Every Lohudder that?s anybody, except for trolls and slugs will be there. We?ll declare it a muppet-free zone.
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No muppets?!?
I’m out!
I have a question for you Con Ed customers out there. If I began service with them for my daughter’s apartment, can I at a later date easily make a change to the name on the account?
Damon will do what’s best for Damon. But this sure didn’t work out for him the way he envisioned a year ago, did it?
GreenBeret7 August 24th, 2010 at 11:46 am
Of course you are, Erin. After all, Joe?s cooking and Randy?s picking up the entire tab. Every Lohudder that?s anybody, except for trolls and slugs will be there. We?ll declare it a muppet-free zone.
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Hmmmm. I may have to reconsider if it’s a Muppet-free zone.
GB
Jeter is a Michigan guy, the Tiger’s were Dr. Jeter’s favorite team and Johnny does attract microphones. The story writes itself!
Erica in NY August 24th, 2010 at 11:48 am
GreenBeret7 August 24th, 2010 at 11:46 am
Of course you are, Erin. After all, Joe?s cooking and Randy?s picking up the entire tab. Every Lohudder that?s anybody, except for trolls and slugs will be there. We?ll declare it a muppet-free zone.
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No muppets?!?
I’m out!
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OK. You can bring your Muppets and frogs along. Just keep ‘em out of sight.
GreenBeret7 August 24th, 2010 at 11:51 am
OK. You can bring your Muppets and frogs along. Just keep ?em out of sight
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Ribbit Ribbit!
pat August 24th, 2010 at 11:50 am
GB
Jeter is a Michigan guy, the Tiger’s were Dr. Jeter’s favorite team and Johnny does attract microphones. The story writes itself!
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D. Jeter was a victim of his environment. He can’t be blamed for his father’s poor taste in baseball teams. Erica’s already mad about the Muppets so I have no comments on Johnny Damon.
new thread
Jerkface August 24th, 2010 at 11:15 am
I agree Jerkface! It is time to use a little more technology to keep things fair.
Jeter was born in NJ but grew up mostly in Michigan, but, is he really from Michigan?
New Post: Steinbrenner monument being dedicated next month