Pregame notes: A plan through Sunday
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Aug 24, 2010 
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For at least one more turn through the rotation, Ivan Nova will work as a Yankees starter. Javier Vazquez has been bumped to the bullpen and will be available in relief tomorrow. Nova will start in his place on Sunday.
“After that I’m not sure what we’ll do,” Joe Girardi said. “Last time we skipped Javy a start, it seemed to kick start him. We’re going to put the kid back out there. We liked what we saw last night.”
Beyond Sunday, Girardi left just about every option open. Vazquez isn’t going to start Monday, but it’s possible he’ll miss only one start. Nova has a spot in the rotation right now, but it’s hard to say how many starts he’ll get.
“If a guy gets hot, you’re going to look at him every time and maybe send him out there every five days,” Girardi said. “This gives us a plan through Sunday and it gives us some time to talk about it and evaluate what we want to do.”
It’s possible this could, at some point, affect Phil Hughes. It sounds like Hughes is not especially close to his innings limit, but Girardi said there are not enough innings left for Hughes to pitch seven innings every time out through the end of the season. If the Yankees have to skip Hughes once, either Nova or Vazquez — depending on how you want to look it — could take that spot. Of course, Andy Pettitte is coming back at some point too.
“We might determine that maybe we need to skip someone else,” Girardi said. “There’s a lot of things that go into this. It’s not all tied into Nova… We’ll be flexible with Hughes as we’re moving down the stretch here because you never know what he’s going to give you every night. You don’t want to get too locked in, but (this rotation change) might give us an opportunity to shorten his game a lot one time or even skip him, but I don’t have a plan right now to do that.”
• Girardi said the Yankees will “probably” go with 13 pitches through September 1.
• Girardi said once again that he has no plans of using a six-man rotation.
• Derek Jeter has a slightly sore leg. Of course, Jeter said it’s a complete non-issue. When Mark Feinsand asked which knee was bothering him, Jeter literally said to write about whichever leg would be easier to write about. “His leg’s been a little sore, but all our guys legs are a little sore,” Girardi said. “It doesn’t really hurt him except to slow down. Not sprinting, not when he’s going after balls.”
• Sitting Jeter yesterday, Girardi said, was because of the 17 games in a row, not because of the leg. The problem is kind of at the top of the shin, on the outside of the leg, near the knee. It’s not related to the heel problem from earlier this season.
• Johnny Damon is not going to Boston.
• Any innings limit for Nova? “If he does, I haven’t heard about the Nova rules,” Girardi said.
UPDATE, 6:15 p.m.: Blue Jays lineup
Travis Snider LF
Yunel Escobar SS
Jose Bautista RF
Vernon Wells CF
Adam Lind DH
Aaron Hill 2B
Lyle Overbay 1B
John Buck C
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Associated Press photo of Nova
It’s pretty sweet that Joe is almost under the assumption that Phil is good for approximately 7 innings most out… My guess is if Phil has one of those games where he blows up in an inning, they’ll just take him out instead of letting him work through it. As Joe says, they don’t know what they’ll get from hm………….Which is why I sort of think they do need to skip him. What happens if he’s lights out the rest of the way?
Fortunately there are some days off coming up…………sounds like Jeter is hurting; he could use another day off or two.
. Of course, Jeter said it’s a complete non-issue. When Mark Feinsand asked which knee was bothering him, Jeter literally said to write about whichever leg would be easier to write about
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Typical Jeter.
GLove, well let’s hope it does not come down to that. Even if AJ’s pitching well,. you don’t know what you’d get from him, but he’d be a pretty decent #4 starter in the playoffs (at least as compared to other teams’ #4 starters)
Javy’s last 4 starts:
5 IP
4 IP
4 IP
3 IP
this move was needed to keep the pen fresh for the pivotal final wks (can’t keep burning through guys because Javy doesn’t have it). very good call, imho.
repost:
“Do you think Javey being in the bullpen will give him enough rest for his “dead arm” so he can get back on track later on this season? ”
KPB,
I really don’t know. Classic dead arm lasts for a certain period of time and then resolves. Usually to “treat it” you have the pitcher keep throwing through it with some rest mixed in as needed. That’s part of why the yankees have tried to keep Javy in the rotation and throwing – that’s usually the “treatment” so to speak.
But his fastball velocity isn’t coming back like it usually does with dead arm. It doesn’t usually last this long.
One of the recurring jokes on this board is about Livan Hernandez and about how he throws junk, isn’t very good but “eats innings.”
People have forgotten what Livan used to be. He used to throw much harder. But then he just lost his fastball – and did so relatively quickly (give or take as his age may be uncertain).
But with Livan he was always noted as a guy who could throw a lot of innings. Those innings though seem to have taken a toll. His arm wore down and he lost his fastball. He was able to adjust but only enough to be mediocre. He was never really consistently good after he lost his fastball.
Javy has thrown a ton of innings in his career and he isn’t a big guy. I am concerned that that prior work load may have taken it’s toll.
All that said, there have been a few seasons where Javy has a very good season and then the following year has a weaker one. I always wondered if that’s because in the good season he tends to throw more innings and wears down. It then takes him a full year to recover with the two winters in between. No idea if that’s the case. Just a thought.
I watched Javy pitch last season and his stuff was great. It was better than his stuff was when he was on the Expos because his change up was even better.
I don’t really know what’s happened to him. I do doubt that he’s going to recover enough of his fastball to contribute significant innings at a quality level for the remainder of this season. Wouldn’t be surprised if he was much better next season if he only winds up throwing around 170 innings this season.
Chad,
Heal problem? Where did you go to school, again?
I like it. Run Nova out there until he shows he can’t handle it. Javy really should be in the bullpen right now. He’s had off and on issues since the spring. It aint getting any better.
I like the flexibility it’s affording Girardi. Nothing is set in stone, nor should it be.
As for Hughes? I prefer to send him out every 5 days. He’s already struggled the 2 times back after being skipped.
Go 5-6 innings the rest of the way. He’s the 2nd best pitcher on the staff, and almost aways gives you a chance to win. Every 5 days.
I’m confident he won’t let the short outings affect him like Joba did.
@GB7 – “It never fails, but when somebody says that “I hate to complain, but….”, they’ll write 10 paragraphs on why they are complaining.”
SG- sometimes it just takes a bunch of words, especially when getting on a soapbox and trying to be respectful of those you are talking to
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@Doreen- I think with respect to our blog hosts, there are days when their workload doesn’t allow them to indulge us with journalistic gems. Our former blog host was compulsive about this place to some extent.
As for the venting, etc. I think the less time spent examining our collective navels blogwise, the better.
SG- I agree with you about workload.. I can’t even imagine the tine and effort they must put in
Venting- sometimes I think it’s necessary, and helps prevent too much steam from building up. Also, when there’s a lot of venting on a certain subject, it tells you it’s a big issue for a bunch of people. So I say let most venters vent, as long as it doesn’t go to far and too long.
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@ upstate kate- what I like about this blog
SG- I agree with your points there
@ upstate kate- what I don’t like- 1. calling players garbage…complain about the play, not the player. For the most part the effort is there, even if the desired result is not
SG- I agree mostly with that, but sometimes it may be appropriate to make specific comments- like Gardner should run more, and swing more, and Jeter should perhaps swing a little less- their performance has been garbage at times.
@ upstate kate- 2. personal attacks on other posters
SG- I agree with that too, unless the poster doesn’t know when to quit, and insists on being annoying or otherwise disrupting the blog..Then, I might attack them one time, and after that mostly ignore them..
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@CR9- I agree with much of what you said. Well stated.
SG-thanks
@CR9- Bautista’s arrogance and because of the cheap call at 1st base that cost us 2 runs.
SG- I saw the replay of that play at first, and it was pretty close. I’m not sure I could have gotten it right. But, I do think it was another play where manager challenges and instant replay might be appropriate.
I’ve got real mixed feelings about Bautista. I’m amazed about his performance this year, but I’m also a bit curious how he could make such a big jump from one year to the next. As for his attitude on the field, I also thought he was a bit overboard- both in reacting to Nova’s pitch, and also in his attitude as he rounded the bases after HR #2.
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@Nick : please name names. We need names!
SG- “Not gonna do it!”
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@Erica- Don’t be an instigator!!!
SG- that’s exactly why I didn’t name names
It’s best that if the yanks can get some 6-7 run leads in the first five or six innings against weaker hitting teams, to pull Hughes out and bring in the bullpen. If they can, they can save a few innings and allow him to make another start or two instead of skipping him. and still make the innings limits. That’s preferrable to him skipping starts and screwing up his routine.
I would prefer Phil not be skipped either, but like Blake, I don’t like shortening his outings artificially (that is, unless he’s struggling big time or the Yankees have a big lead). I like that the Yanks are being flexible about this…..
I really don’t get why the Joe Benignos of the world have such problems with innings limits. No team can guarantee that their prized pitchers won’t get hurt, but that would be the case with no innings limits. It just seems stupidly macho to throw these kids out for them to pitch as long and hard as they can. For some reason the “old days” are always the “good old days”, as if the present is somehow inferior to the past.
CB – nice analysis of Vaz. It’s looking more like he’s one and done.
CB
Thanks for your response. I hope it’s just fatigue and nothing major.
I remember this off-season Javy asking the Yankees if he could start his pre-season workouts early – something to do with the WBC, but I don’t remember. Remember that the Yankees had AJ, CC and Andy delay their pre-season workouts because of the long season……
Repost
GB7
It took me a bit to figure out it was an impostor. I was wondering why the hell you would be posting all that info. But, what really turned my stomach was the sick son of a b***h brought up the grand kids. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
Betsy, pitcher abuse has ruined too many careers. Kerry wood, Mark Prior, Dwight Gooden who burned out long before his time. The drug issues didn’t help, but, that early work load was obscene. Al Leiter and even Roger Clemens to a certain extent were abused early and often. some were because of so many early innings and like Al Leiter and Gil Patterson, it was the number of pitches in one or two games very early in their career and in the cold weather. That’s why Leiter had no use for Billy Martin. Leiter had a HOF arm. he was that good.
GB,
I agree with that and that would be great..what I meant by “short starts” though is predetermined innings or pitch count limits for that day that are less than the norm…I personally think that can be more harmful to a routine than being skipped all together…..its a debateable subject though and probably something that unique to each pitcher which would suit them best
Heal issue. Yikes. Don’t show anyone at Mizzou. My old editor Ray Murray might come after me if he saw that.
KPB August 24th, 2010 at 6:35 pm
Repost
GB7
It took me a bit to figure out it was an impostor. I was wondering why the hell you would be posting all that info. But, what really turned my stomach was the sick son of a b***h brought up the grand kids. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
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Not a lot that can be done, though. I don’t care so much about me, but, leave the babies out of it. screw that idiot. I’m over it and would just as soon see it all get buried.
blake
I agree with what you’re saying. I’d much rather they leave him out there until he showed signs of fatigue instead of just yanking him out after a certain inning, regardless even if his pitch count was low.
I like the move to Nova. This is a tight pennant race. The Yanks can’t afford to keep getting 4 – 5 poor innings from Vazquez. Nova has upside. Vazquez doesn’t. He’s especially vulerable in hitters’ parks, since he gives up so many long flies. A bad pick-up by Cashman, maybe on par with that of Nick Johnson and Chan Ho.
Chad,
Lol. Good sport as usual.
Truth be told, though. Jeter does have a healing issue. He refuses to rest in order to do so!
GB7
Understood. I just wanted to offer my support.
GB, I only remember Leiter vaguely……..but I’ve heard Martin was, shall we say, not a pitcher’s best friend.
Phil is level-headed and mature and will handle things well, but I agree about the pre-determined innings or pitch count. Under those conditions, it’s kind of hard to go out there and throw free and easy – and if you’re barely pitching 5 innings, you may not even have a chance at a win.
blake August 24th, 2010 at 6:37 pm
GB,
I agree with that and that would be great..what I meant by “short starts” though is predetermined innings or pitch count limits for that day that are less than the norm…I personally think that can be more harmful to a routine than being skipped all together…..its a debateable subject though and probably something that unique to each pitcher which would suit them best
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I wasn’t fond of the 3-4-5 inning graduations, regardless of innings, either. If Hughes gets to 5 or 6 innings under 70 pitches, let him go one extra inning. I’m in favor of young pitchers with innings and pitch limits, but, if you are at 70 pitches in 5-6 innings, pulling him out doesn’t help anymore than letting him throw 115 pitches in 4 or 5 innings and talking about needing to get his innings up.
What move even less of a surprise is that it takes Javy out of the sewer aka as Ozzie’s mouth.
espn schedule has already changed it. That’s as ’bout as set as stone as it gets. For now.
KPB, it’s much appreciated. Thank you.
Chad
LOL Don’t worry your secret is safe with me, besides I’m no heel.
Betsy August 24th, 2010 at 6:44 pm
GB, I only remember Leiter vaguely……..but I’ve heard Martin was, shall we say, not a pitcher’s best friend.
Phil is level-headed and mature and will handle things well, but I agree about the pre-determined innings or pitch count. Under those conditions, it’s kind of hard to go out there and throw free and easy – and if you’re barely pitching 5 innings, you may not even have a chance at a win.
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Martin’s biggest problem was he insisted on having his drinking buddy, Art Fowler as his pitching coach where ever he managed. Fowler shouldn’t have been around the arm of a corpse, much less a young pitcher.
GreenBeret7 August 24th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
KPB, it’s much appreciated. Thank you.
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No problem, I wouldn’t want “Killer” on my trail. Since I don’t have beer or pizza he’d have to fetch something else I cherish very much.
Tonight, there is no way that I pitch to the first 9 batters in the Toronto lineup.
Seriously, two batters that wouldn’t see a strike are Bautista and Buck.
LOL GB…………Yet, there are those who think that today’s pitchers are being babied too much. Well, we’ll never know about all those pitchers who broke down under the strain because they didn’t make it. I don’t agree with treating pitchers like china dolls, but they sure shouldn’t be treated like pieces of meat. I think the Yankees have done a good job with Phil this year.
Game thread up. Good luck to those who brave through it. I’ll see ya’ll after the game.