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Postgame notes: “That’s something that can’t happen”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes, Podcast on Aug 25, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Yankees Blue Jays BaseballPhil Hughes said he felt good tonight. His fastball had good velocity. He threw some good offspeed pitches. He got to two-strikes on a lot of hitters.

Hughes had his shortest outing of the year because he wasn’t able to put hitters away, and Hughes said that was all because of command.

“That’s something that can’t happen, especially when we’re trying to win a series here,” he said “The pitch count was out of control and I wasn’t able to get that big strike or big ball off the plate I needed.”

Hughes got only 11 outs, but six of them were on strikes. When his pitches when where he wanted, they were plenty effective. But he also walked five, something he hadn’t done since his first start of the year.

“I didn’t think he had the great command of his fastball today, and I didn’t think it had the good downward plane,” Joe Girardi said. “When it’s more on one, flat level, it’s easier to foul those pitches off.”

Here’s Hughes talking after the game.

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Yankees Blue Jays Baseball• Even thought it took him 102 pitches, Girardi said this will still count as only 3.2 innings for Hughes. “We’ll just count the innings because he’s going to get an extra day (of rest),” Girardi said.

• Is there any positive from limiting Hughes’ workload tonight? “That’s not the way I wanted it to happen,” Girardi said. “There’s no real silver lining. We’ll adjust as we have to, but obviously we didn’t have too many (innings) tonight.”

• No one seemed especially upset about the call at second base when Jose Bautista beat Derek Jeter to the bag. Hughes argued a lot on the field, but said it was “one of those plays where emotions kind of take over.”

• Girardi thought going to second base was the right play, and he thought Jeter got there as quickly as possible.

• Great night for Javier Vazquez, who seemed to have more life on his fastball, despite saying he felt physically the same as when he’s been pitching out of the rotation. “It feels good (but) we lost the game, so it’s nothing big,” Vazquez said. “To go out there and throw some zeros out there, it’s good for me.”

• Vazquez went 4.1 innings, which is as long as any of his past three starts.

• Oddly enough, the one big hit that didn’t bother Hughes too much was the Vernon Wells home run. It was a pitch up and out of the zone, like he wanted it, and Wells got it out of the park. “I’ve gotten him a few times on the exact same pitch,” Hughes said. “That’s one you, I don’t want to say live with, but you make your pitch and see what happens. That’s just two runs right there. It’s the other runs I kind of had a problem with.”

• Girardi indicated that he’ll consider playing Marcus Thames against some right-handed starters coming up. Thames has homered in back-to-back games and seems pretty hot at the moment. Half of his home runs this season have come off righties.

• Just a reminder about our daily online Yankees photo galleries.

Associated Press photos of Hughes and Brett Gardner

Comments

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598 Responses to “Postgame notes: “That’s something that can’t happen””

  1. Faiaz August 25th, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    aw no one is here :(

  2. Cashmoney August 25th, 2010 at 11:44 pm

    Faiaz August 25th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
    u rather NOT have cervelli and crawford that a legit catcher? Who’s available? go on the next post
    ——————————–
    John Buck or Miguel Olivo , Chris Snyder or Doumit from Pits via trade. I think it would be relative reasonable acquisition like 5 -6 mil?

    lil CC goes, i don’t believe Yankees will get both him an Lee if they adhere to the same budget as this year’s. but we never know… cash can blow it out if hank gives okay.

  3. Jerkface August 25th, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    Doumit is not a catcher. He is Jesus Montero without the bat.

  4. SAS August 25th, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    I’m here. I never saw your name until last night.

  5. Betsy August 25th, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    Nothing positive to take out of the game – you just have to move on.

  6. Cashmoney August 25th, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    Jerkface August 25th, 2010 at 11:45 pm
    Doumit is not a catcher. He is Jesus Montero without the bat.
    —————————–
    i heard he is pretty horrid defensively jerk. but i think he has caught majority of career. so I will consider him in comparison to Cervelli. my obvious choice is not him…

  7. Betsy August 25th, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....-1.2237657

    Still, as Girardi said, “There’s no real silver lining.”

    The Yankees couldn’t capitalize on Tampa’s loss earlier in the day, so the teams remain tied for the division lead.

    “You have 100 pitches to work with and I can’t get through four…I definitely didn’t do my job as a starter,” Hughes said. “Fortunately, Javy came in to kind of save some of those arms out there [in the bullpen]. But when you’re coming into a series and you have to win this third game and I go out there and kind of lose it for us right off the bat, it’s pretty tough to swallow.”

    Hughes, as has been the case in most of his loss — and some of his victories — this year had problems putting hitters away.

    Of the first 10 Blue Jays who reached base, Hughes had two strikes on all of them and 12 of the 18 hitters he got two strikes on overall reached.

    “That stat can’t happen,” Hughes said

    “It’s a command issue for the most part,” Hughes said of the problem of putting people away. “I feel like if I put some of those pitches in better locations I’d get some better results. Tonight seemed like it was one of those nights where it was either strikeouts or something hit hard and a ton of foul balls. I run into those outings every now and then. Sometimes I can battle through; tonight it just seemed like a real struggle.”

  8. Cashmoney August 25th, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    betsy , you are obsessed with Philip Hughes.

  9. GreenBeret7 August 25th, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    Gotta love a young player that takes responsibility for his own mistakes, doesn’t make excuses and is never satisfied.

  10. Faiaz August 25th, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    What are possibilities of some acquisitions the sox might make for next year?

  11. Crash August 25th, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    People are making too big of a deal of Hughes innings limit. If anything the yanks will have to skip him only once. It really isn’t that big of a deal.

    Thames has been great against lefties he is hitting 342 off them. I think they have to consider bringing him back next year. He is a great bat off the bench.

  12. Faiaz August 25th, 2010 at 11:52 pm

    SAS
    that comment was for me?

  13. Betsy August 25th, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    Gee, Cash – he pitched tonight, so god forbid anyone would want to read post-game quotes. You think I’m obsessed, ok……………

  14. Erica in NY August 25th, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    Betsy August 25th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
    Nothing positive to take out of the game – you just have to move on.
    ***********

    I don’t agree with you.

    I think Javy coming out of the bullpen and only giving up 1 run over 4.1 was a positive

  15. Erica in NY August 25th, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    Anyway….

    Good night Yankee people!

  16. Jerkface August 25th, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    Doumit can’t even play catcher at all. He might be the worst defensive catcher to ever play catcher. They call him Ryan No-Mitt.

    He also got concussed forcing him off the position.

  17. trisha - true pinstriped blue August 25th, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    repost

    “Where does fact come in here?
    the fact you believe this will be the case?”

    Well Cashmoney we’re all dealing with the same set of facts right now. So then I guess it’s a matter of how we individually interpret what we are seeing in conjunction with our thoughts about the team as a whole and the different parts of the team. To me it is no big whoop that the Yankees are losing some of their games. Been there done that. I think the Yankee players, as a whole, are the best in the league by far. I do not worry about the Yankees ability to score runs at all. So we turn to the rotation. How are we set up for a 5-game series? How are we set up for a 7-game series? And is there any rotation that worries me? I absolutely believe that AJ will be able to turn it on in the playoffs. We’ve seen him be erratic and we’ve seen him be great. Good players do have the ability to notch it up in the postseason. Do I believe AJ is going to go on a roll in September? Yes I do, and then I think he will transition right in. CC is not a problem. So that leaves us with #3 for the 5-game and then a #4 for the 7-game. From everything we can know right now, Andy is on schedule to come back to us in September. Do I think we can trust him to get it together for the playoffs? Absolutely. There’s our number 3. Our number 4 can be someone named Hughes, someone named Moseley, someone named Nova, or even someone named HughesMoseleyMitreGaudinNova, if you know what I mean. Or Joe could opt to go with a 3-man rotation with CC getting a possible Game 7.

    So I believe that it will all be worked out. That’s what causes me to stand firm on believing we’ll take it all. There is thought that goes into it. Like any good lawyer, I don’t always share my work product…

    “Tricia, I didn’t see your contribution as I was typing a long winded nonsensical response….I’m with you, I think this is a better club than last season”

    YAY PAT M!!!!!

  18. Cashmoney August 25th, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    Jerkface August 25th, 2010 at 11:54 pm
    Doumit can’t even play catcher at all. He might be the worst defensive catcher to ever play catcher. They call him Ryan No-Mitt.

    He also got concussed forcing him off the position.
    —————————–
    right on, Snyder then. I am sure there are few others i haven’t thought of and touched.

  19. Betsy August 25th, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    Erica, I suppose……..

  20. Faiaz August 25th, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    SAS
    You never saw my name until last night because… repost: i have been haunting this site ever since it came out. one day i posted a pic of this character http://www.turner.com/planet/c.....eedly.html from captain planet and said that it looked like pete abe because that’s what we were doing… posting pics of baseball related people who look like cartoon characters. Pete took offense to that and banned me and wrote me an email telling me to meet him in the pressbox to tell him to his face and after he found out that I am a blackbelt in Kyokushin Karate, he backtracked. it was not until recently that i was able to sign back on here after they had usernames n passwords.

  21. GreenBeret7 August 25th, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    I’ll worry about the yankees the day that they are 2 games out with one game to play. Not before.

  22. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 12:02 am

    Homefield is pretty important given the disparity between road and home for the yankees this year, but one thing to keep in mind is that the yankees are one of the 2 best teams in baseball and the road team in a 7 game series plays 3 in a row at home.

    So all the yankees need to do is split on the road and take it to the opposition at home.

    I think they could do fine homefield or not I guess is what it comes down to. Assuming they can win 3 out of 4 in the ALDS.

  23. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 12:03 am

    So I believe that it will all be worked out. That’s what causes me to stand firm on believing we’ll take it all. There is thought that goes into it. Like any good lawyer, I don’t always share my work product…
    —————————————–
    sounds good to me Tricia.

  24. Pepitone August 26th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    # GreenBeret7 August 25th, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    Gotta love a young player that takes responsibility for his own mistakes, doesn’t make excuses and is never satisfied.
    ————————-
    Absolutely!

    This kid has a very bright future ahead of him.

    He’s talented, serious about his craft, and willing to learn. I have coached, and he’s a coaches dream.

  25. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 12:07 am

    Talking about Phil reminded me of Jobber. Will he ever start again?

  26. pat August 26th, 2010 at 12:09 am

    TheYankeeU Put it this way: if Phil Hughes 2010 disappoints you, you need a new hobby bc your expectations are absurd. 19 minutes ago

    I wish I had written that. :sad:

  27. trisha - true pinstriped blue August 26th, 2010 at 12:10 am

    Thanks Cashmoney!

    I like having you on my team.

    :)

  28. sunny615 August 26th, 2010 at 12:10 am

    Lost another series. Every year it seems there’s always a team that just beats the yanks. I remember it was the o’s one year, the rays another year and the royals a year before that. This year it seems like the jays just seem to know how to beat the Yankees.

  29. SAS August 26th, 2010 at 12:11 am

    Faiaz,

    I just joined up in December. I know nothing of Pete Abe he must be the world’s biggest jerk from everything I read and heard.

    It is nice to meet you. Post other funny cartoons any time you like. This place just gets so serious some of the time.

    Chad is a terrific young man. His posts are timely, etc.

    I found I missed my Yankee news when I spend so time in Arizona, which I do. For the first few months I “lurked”, and wanted to chat but was fearful that my long but less thorough interest in the team would be laughed at, but everyone has been great.

  30. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 12:11 am

    pat August 26th, 2010 at 12:09 am
    TheYankeeU Put it this way: if Phil Hughes 2010 disappoints you, you need a new hobby bc your expectations are absurd. 19 minutes ago
    —————————————————–
    “What is objectionable, what is dangerous, about extremists is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents.

    I like this one :)

  31. SAS August 26th, 2010 at 12:12 am

    so much time*

  32. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 12:14 am

    SAS, you are one of the nicest person on here.

  33. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 12:16 am

    SAS,
    LOL Pete’s insecurities are the cause to him being a douche. Nice to meet you also. Arizona? College?

  34. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 12:16 am

    Pepi, the Yanks are building a stable of these young players and they are learning from the veterans that the only one you can blame is yourself and never be satisfied. I think that Chamberlain is starting to get that, now. If they feel differently, they’ll be gone. Cervelli needs to learn this, too. I think that he became sayisfied with last year and the start and decided that he had everything figured out. he seems to have become a little lazy in his mechanics behind the plate and with the bat. He’s nowhere near the same player he was in April and May.

  35. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 12:16 am

    for him*

  36. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 12:21 am

    @Tricia
    Friday will be my last day on lohud for awhile, Casinos awaits. i will ‘drop in ‘ when i can .

  37. SAS August 26th, 2010 at 12:21 am

    Thank you Cash Money.

    ——————————————————–

    Faiaz,

    I am a grandmother, and not a young one at that

  38. Tank August 26th, 2010 at 12:21 am

    Need Bergman back in the lineup….

  39. trisha - true pinstriped blue August 26th, 2010 at 12:23 am

    :)

    Definitely drop in when you can. I guarantee you that you will feel good about the Yankees chances, whenever you drop in. And good luck in those Casinos!!!

  40. theREALkevin August 26th, 2010 at 12:24 am

    Hughes is nuts. Every1 knows wells is a dead red fastball hitter. He’s made his career off it. Esp after the triple on the fb, that 0-2 pitch selection on the homer was brutal. Fastball up? Really? That was the easiest curve in the dirt spot ever. Terrible pitch selection and he’s plain wrong that it was a good pitch TO THAT BATTER. U can’t just pretend every hitter is the same.

  41. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 12:26 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue August 26th, 2010 at 12:23 am

    Definitely drop in when you can. I guarantee you that you will feel good about the Yankees chances, whenever you drop in. And good luck in those Casinos!!!
    —————————————-
    will do. hopefully they will do it again, i will be rooting for them! if not, there is always next year . I will be emotional for sure !

  42. SAS August 26th, 2010 at 12:27 am

    Cashmoney,

    I hope it is vacation you are about to enjoy. I know not to wish a gambler luck.

  43. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 12:30 am

    SAS August 26th, 2010 at 12:27 am
    Cashmoney,

    I hope it is vacation you are about to enjoy. I know not to wish a gambler luck.
    —————————————
    lol, i guess it’s kinda like a vacation. I play poker professionally. it has some luck involved, but mostly skills.

  44. Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 12:30 am

    the Real Kevin can’t be real serious……You are kidding with that posted entry…If you answer yes, it’s time for bed

  45. backbench August 26th, 2010 at 12:31 am

    Approximately 9 minutes of BC discussing the state of the NYYs as of yesterday. He is honest about Andy coming back ready to go, Javy, and the rotation in general.

    http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/0.....oins-show/

  46. pat August 26th, 2010 at 12:31 am

    swbyankeesTT
    As I was walking out of the SWB clubhouse, Jesus Montero was walking in. Spent 1/2 hour working on pop ups. Don’t say the kid doesn’t try.

  47. SAS August 26th, 2010 at 12:32 am

    Cashmoney,

    We have a friend who plays in Arizona. He’s not quite a pro, but enjoys it enormously. Me, I like duplicate bridge.

  48. theREALkevin August 26th, 2010 at 12:34 am

    Sas, glad u started posting. It can get a little intense in here and I can contribute to that. I’m glad we have another even keeled person to help balance things. And u shouldn’t have been scared to post, everyone has a right to an opinion and to share their thoughts.

  49. stuart a August 26th, 2010 at 12:35 am

    the changeup would have really helped phil tonight.

    when is berkman back?? counting the days to arod is back.

    marte news not good…….

  50. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 12:36 am

    sas,
    I’m calling you gram from now on and I don’t care that we have just met :) I’m 27 and both my grandmothers are back in Bangladesh.

  51. raymagnetic August 26th, 2010 at 12:38 am

    Kevin,

    Wells hit a pitch that was shoulder high. 9 times out of ten he isn’t hitting a HR off of that pitch.

  52. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 12:38 am

    SAS August 26th, 2010 at 12:32 am
    Cashmoney,

    We have a friend who plays in Arizona. He’s not quite a pro, but enjoys it enormously. Me, I like duplicate bridge.
    —————————
    I have never played bridge, but i heard you can ‘bluff’ or being less honest with your hands.
    Poker is a thinking men’s game , to be halfway decent , you also need to have certain physical traits and pretty decent stomach for it. it’s a game of circumstances that one hones by deductive reasoning and big balls.

  53. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 12:39 am

    Wells pulled a Guerrero

  54. SAS August 26th, 2010 at 12:39 am

    Faiaz,

    My grandson is 2 1/2 and just adorable. I wanted to be called Gram, but I am Nana. My great grandmother was my Nana so it’s cool.

  55. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 12:40 am

    I’m not sure what the Yankee broadcast team said about Hughes pitch to Wells on the homer, but, Toronto broadcaster is Pat Tabler and he spent 5 minutes talking about he doesn’t know how Wells got on top of that pitch to hit it that hard. He called it a near perfect pitcher’s pitch. He was impressed with the fastball and with hughes, but, he said that he had little control over the breaking pitches and overall command wasn’t as sharp has he’s seen from Hughes, and that’s what cost him.

  56. theREALkevin August 26th, 2010 at 12:41 am

    Pat m- kiss my ass. If you disagree with my post, why not just say so tactfully and present a counterpoint? Don’t bother quoting any more of my comments, trust me I won’t take the time after now to respond. Save yourself the trouble next time.

  57. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 12:42 am

    I remember Pat Tabler…………….Well, I’m sure he’ll have better command of the FB in the future. As to the others? We’ll see next year.

  58. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 12:42 am

    That is so weird how no matter what languages you look at some words just similar… i call my grandmother from my mom’s side nanu.

  59. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 12:43 am

    and believe it or not… nana in Bengali is used to refer to the grandfather from the mom’s side. My nana past away RIP :(

  60. theREALkevin August 26th, 2010 at 12:44 am

    Ray- I don’t care where the location was. Any fastball was an awful pitch selection to that batter. Curve or change and he’s done. Wells lives off fastballs and it was obvious he was sitting dead red all nite. When ur sittin dead red, even on an 0-2 count u can reach that pitch sometimes. Obviously.

  61. JK August 26th, 2010 at 12:44 am

    One of the problems with Phil is that he completely dominated AA with just a fastball & curve combo. The organization and Eiland knew he needed another offspeed pitch on the major league level and that is why the plan was for him to spend the entire 2007 season at AAA where they were forcing him to throw 10% change ups.

    However, injuries hit the MLB rotation and the need to WIN NOW reared it’s ugly head, the media and fanbase were screaming for Hughes, the development plan was tossed to the side, Phil was rushed to the majors before he was ready, then he got hurt in Tex & an entire year of planned development turned into a disaster.

    The other problem is that Hughes came through Tampa & Trenton when the focus of the system was on winning more than development. A Yankee starter doesn’t get to AA these days without establishing command of 3 pitches at A+. Look at Nova, he has the confidence to throw all of his pitches because he’s been doing exactly that since high A ball.

  62. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 12:45 am

    therealkevin
    maybe he just didn’t feel like being smart, its late you know?

  63. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 12:47 am

    JK, good points, but here we are now; it would be a shame if Phil’s inability to develop decent and consistent breaking pitches prevented him from reaching his potential. The curve is a problem because it’s a bad pitch for him now; the change is a problem because he’s afraid to throw it. I also think he was so used to dominating ML hitters that he probably got to thinking that he doesn’t need other pitches…….

  64. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 12:48 am

    One thing that Tabler knows is hitting. Ex-Yankee farm kid. The guy could flat out hit, and he was deadly with the bases loaded. A .489 career hitter with the bases loaded in 88 at bats and 108 RBI.

  65. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 12:49 am

    I blame Cashman for rushing Phil…….I don’t recall the media clamoring for Phil, but if they were, he should have ignored them. Instead of calling up a kid who wasn’t ready, he should have found some veteran who could take those innings.

  66. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 12:50 am

    That’s right – I remember Tabler as being great in those situations………

  67. SAS August 26th, 2010 at 12:50 am

    Faiaz,

    Certain sounds are easier than others. I have had the time to pay attention to this little Yankee fan, and it was so obvious that Dada, Mama, Nana were easy, but so mehow he calls his maternal grandmother T Mom.

    Enough about me.

  68. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 12:50 am

    Phil was rushed to the majors before he was ready, then he got hurt in Tex & an entire year of planned development turned into a disaster.

    Phil had an effective change up which he felt comfortable using, enough to strike out Mark Teixeira in his no-hit bid, but lost it while rehabbing. I honestly do not think the Yankees rushed him. He had 3 very good pitches before he lost his base (hamstring and then ankle) and then lost an entire year to terribleness (ribs).

    I will always argue that they were well within their right to call him up in 07. Had he not been injured we’d be sitting on a 4-5 pitch pitcher with tremendous stuff.

  69. trisha - true pinstriped blue August 26th, 2010 at 12:52 am

    “will do. hopefully they will do it again, i will be rooting for them! if not, there is always next year . I will be emotional for sure”

    And this is 100% real Cashmoney. If not, there is always next year! I think that’s the healthiest attitude of all. And I second the emotion part. I’ll be right there with you.

    :)

    Good luck in your poker tournaments!!! Keep us posted.

    Night all.

  70. Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 12:54 am

    Betsy, everyone was calling for Hughes, including the bloggers here, myself included….The only person that I remember being very clear about his concerns in the callup was Randy I…….TheRealkevin, that was so absurd a comment that at the time I was lost for anything beyond what I wrote…….You are allowed a do over though …….Then again your response only solidified by statement…….

  71. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 12:55 am

    Cashman obviously didn’t think so since he said in late 2006 that Phil was not going to be called up until 9/07 at the earliest.

    In any case, though I’m sorry he lost those 2 years, I didn’t expect him to completely lose his curve and his change. He’s going to have to find a way to get them back………for sure the curve. The change, IMO, is a matter of whether he can overcome his fear of using it.

  72. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 12:55 am

    sas
    how long have you been a yankees fan and what was the reason? were you born into in?

  73. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 12:57 am

    Pat M, I came on board later that year I think, so I don’t recall. Either way, what’s past is past; there’s no point in thinking about what might have been. If he had those pitches before, I imagine he can have them again – hopefully.

  74. JK August 26th, 2010 at 12:57 am

    Betsy,

    That shouldn’t have been a problem, because he had to learn how to compete at the end of 2007 and 2008 with only a 90-91 mph fastball.

    I really blame the catchers and staff here. This isn’t rocket science, up by 3 or more runs or in 0-2 and 1-2 counts or 2 outs already or vs the bottom of the lineup is when he should be working in the change up.

  75. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 12:57 am

    GMs should always give conservative estimates to the media about their best prospects. That doesn’t mean its reality, or that the prospect couldn’t handle it. Or would be negatively affected if plans change.

  76. G-C August 26th, 2010 at 12:58 am

    I don’t know if Phil isn’t comfortable throwing his secondary pitches.

    He’s throwing so ridiculously hard right now (much harder than I think he was even at any point in the minors) that it looks to me like he’s just getting fastball happy.

    He was sitting 95-96 today. All of my BA books had him as someone who sat 90-94.

    The fact that he’s comfortable and able to attack the zone with that kind of velocity is a huge plus to me.

  77. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 1:01 am

    The only reason Hughes was called up early was the same reason that Chamberlain was. Injuries to the pitching staff and a lot of them. NYY needed pitchers and trading for them was out of the question. The asking price was Hughes, Chamberlain, Cano and that wasn’t for superstar pitchers.

  78. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:02 am

    this is what makes yankees fans YANKEES FANS… look at us discussing baseball at 1(NYtime) in the morning

  79. Rich in NJ August 26th, 2010 at 1:02 am

    Jerkface

    There is a countervailing interest of pumping up their trade value, which is why so many prospects have historically been overhyped.

  80. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:03 am

    JK, that’s true about working without his best stuff. If CB is right and that Phil is at a disadvantage from many other young pitchers because he’s on a team that is expected to win, well – that’s not very comforting. The situation is going to be the same next year and the year after that. He needs his curve……..and he needs to not be afraid to get beaten by something other than a FB. If he’s that afraid, he’s really a reliever at heart (and I don’t really believe that).

    G-C, from what I hear, Phil was a very hard thrower in the minors; his stuff doesn’t sound like it’s as good now as it was then…….Also, sitting 95-96 with no command doesn’t do him much good (the guns were probably juiced, though). I wish he’d become a ground ball pitcher again……he gives up a ton of HRs.

  81. SAS August 26th, 2010 at 1:04 am

    Faiaz,

    My Dad was a Yankees fan, and I just was interested in his interest. It was a way of being closer to him and giving us a special tie. My sister like my Mother had no interest. I vaguely remember Joe DiMaggio. We got a TV in 1949 and baseball had many more day games and they were on TV.

    When I married, I married a Yankee fan, and we had 2 sons who loved them.

    So, that’s my story.

  82. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:04 am

    GB, even for mediocre veterans? Either way, the past is the past – I just think it was a shame that it had to be that way. I don’t blame those lost years for what’s going on now, though………….

  83. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 1:05 am

    i never had high expectation for Hughes. I am very satisfied with his season so far. even though somehow he has become a de facto 2 in this current rotation.

    I would like both him and Burnett to master a change up. I do agree catcher and staff has some culpability in that they have no done so yet.

  84. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 1:06 am

    G-C or Jerk, can you guys tell me what Burnett’s averge on his FBs this season.

  85. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:06 am

    Your whole life basically revolved around the Yankees. That’s awesome.

  86. JK August 26th, 2010 at 1:08 am

    Jerkface,

    Igawa was a disaster, Pavano hit the DL early, Karstens, Rasner, Wang & Mussina all got hurt in rapid fire fashion with 2-3 weeks. That was the situation with the major league staff when Hughes was rushed to the majors.

  87. Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 1:08 am

    Betsy, I don’t think it’s a matter of fear, I just see him following instructions……It’s very seldom that he shakes off ….The dugout must want him to establish himself as a power pitcher 1st……Fastball command and build on that foundation…..In closing, that up the ladder fastball that Wells hit still has me wondering how ????/

  88. Rich in NJ August 26th, 2010 at 1:11 am

    Cashmoney

    http://www.fangraphs.com/pitch.....P#velocity

  89. G-C August 26th, 2010 at 1:11 am

    Cashmoney, he’s at 93.1.

    Easily the lowest of his career since 2003, when he was at 92.8, and that in itself seems like an outlier.

    Down from 94.2 from last year.

    Not really a great sign.

  90. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:11 am

    igawa was a bad move by cash FOR NO REASON… just because the sox got dice k cash panicked

  91. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:11 am

    Pat M, I admit that I see him now as more of a middle of the rotation pitcher than a future ace………

    He’s admitted that he’s afraid to get beaten on his fourth best pitch. The thing is, just because the change would be his 4th best pitch doesn’t mean it can’t be a good pitch. Jorge should probably call for it more…………but again, if the kid has no conviction, how successful is he going to be? He has to get that curve working again first….

  92. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:12 am

    Also, if that’s what the staff is doing, it’s a mistake. He’d be a better pitcher with breaking pitches…….

  93. SAS August 26th, 2010 at 1:15 am

    Good night all and may the Yankees enjoy their day off before getting back to business with a really awesome weekend.

  94. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 1:16 am

    G-C August 26th, 2010 at 1:11 am
    Cashmoney, he’s at 93.1.

    Easily the lowest of his career since 2003, when he was at 92.8, and that in itself seems like an outlier.

    Down from 94.2 from last year.

    Not really a great sign.
    ————————————
    Thanks Rich and G-C, well this kinda illustrated what i was saying about burnett. Who has worse control of his FB and Cu in the zone than Hughes. it’s no surprise he getting hit @ 93. if you sit dead red, 93 isn’t that imposing of a task.
    he is imminently hittable with his arsenal this year… and unless he masters a changeup and somewhat gain better control in the zone.
    Burnett will be this mediocre pitcher that he has been all season.

  95. Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 1:17 am

    I don’t know Bets, he’s about to complete his first full season in the bigs, he’ll most likely win 17 maybe 18 games, made the All-Star team …..It’s looking like a nice start to what very well be a very impressive career

  96. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:18 am

    But cmon we have to give Burnett some credit for not landing on the DL which was the biggest concern when he was signed

  97. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:19 am

    sas
    have a good night

  98. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 1:20 am

    nite .SAS

  99. JK August 26th, 2010 at 1:21 am

    Lack of minor league development…

    Hughes hit the rotation in 2007 before having a complete season of confidence with his new changeup

    Chamberlain hit the rotation in 2008 before establishing consistent fastball command as a minor league starter

    Kennedy hit the rotation in 2008 with no consistent breaking pitch.

    THANK GOD the Yankees are no longer desperate and are taking it nice and slow with their young pitchers again.

  100. Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 1:23 am

    JK, The cupboards were pretty bare back then, and that wasn’t really all that long ago…….Cashman and Company have accomplished a great deal in so short a time

  101. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 1:24 am

    Not sure what’s considered a ton of home runs, but, that’s not Hughes. He gives up almost as many as Jered Weaver does, the same as Matt Garza and less than Kevin Slowey, Jeff Neiman, and considerably fewer than Dan Haren and Rickey Nolasco per 9 innings. All are pretty good pitchers, older than Hughes with more experience.

  102. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:24 am

    Pat M, sure – I think he’ll be successful; I guess we’ll have to see to what degree. There are some young guns in the minors who have better stuff and more pitches……….

  103. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:25 am

    GB, maybe it seems that way because he didn’t give up many HRs for the first month and a half; since about June, he’s given up a a lot………..

  104. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:27 am

    So what do you guys think the rotation will look like in 2011?

  105. Rich in NJ August 26th, 2010 at 1:29 am

    “…..It’s looking like a nice start to what very well be a very impressive career”

    I think this is an apt description of where Phil is at. Nice, not overwhelming or stellar.

    As for AJ, the odd thing is that his two seamer is up over a mph and he’s throwing it about 20% more often.

    I think AJ’s problem is mechanical. He still has more than enough to win consistently, but because he can’t repeat his mechanics, he likely never will.

    I don’t think he will remain in the Yankees’ rotation for the three more years of his contract.

  106. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 1:30 am

    I understand the circumstances in which Hughes was brought up, what I am saying is that i do not necessarily believe there was any negative impact from that promotion, or that Hughes was not ready. Hughes threw 7% change ups that game and had he gone deeper might have upped that. He had 14% swinging strikes on his fastball, 30% on his change, and 17% on his curve. He was as advertised and awesome.
    So I can’t say that bringing him up somehow hurt him. He was too good when he was brought up.

  107. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 1:30 am

    Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:27 am
    So what do you guys think the rotation will look like in 2011?
    ——————————–
    minus Pettite , plus Lee

    i also like Kuroda as fifth starter, but he prolly will be too expensive.

  108. Rich in NJ August 26th, 2010 at 1:31 am

    “So what do you guys think the rotation will look like in 2011?”

    CC
    Lee
    Hughes
    AJ
    Nova

    I think Pettitte will retire. I hope I’m wrong.

  109. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:32 am

    cash
    you almost turned me on… NO HOMO
    but seriously… who are the other suitors for Lee realistically? what do you think his contract would be like?

  110. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:32 am

    So Rich, are you disappoined in Phil? Nice is sort of……..you know, kind of bland.

    He’s been ok, but a 4.12 ERA isn’t great (and it’s a lot higher than that since May). The thing that bothers me isn’t that he hasn’t been great this year – he’s been fine. It’s just that you try to project going forward and he’s got some major flaws……even besides secondary pitches.

  111. JK August 26th, 2010 at 1:32 am

    Pat M.,

    Cash didn’t want to make a trade he would live to regret when the Yankees were in the position the Mets are in now where every GM targets their 2 best prospects because their system lacks credibility. So, he rushed Joba, Hughes & Kennedy to the majors to solve problems internally rather than making a dumb trades.

  112. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:33 am

    cash, rich
    joba? never starting again?

  113. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 1:34 am

    Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:32 am
    cash
    you almost turned me on… NO HOMO

    ? huh?

  114. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:34 am

    Jerkface, that was one game………..Who’s to say his curve and change, particularly the change, would have been that good (or close to) the rest of the year? I doubt he would have kept up that kind of performance……….not that it matters now. What’s of greater import is how he pitches now and develops in the future.

  115. Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 1:34 am

    Better stuff & more pitches……Every pitcher that comes thru the Organization will be looking up at what Hughes accomplished during his quick trip thru the Minors……

  116. JK August 26th, 2010 at 1:35 am

    The Yankees shouldn’t chase Lee. Just sit back like the Redsox did with Lackey and make a late bid that gets the job done.

  117. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:36 am

    I sort of agree with Rich, but no Nova………….Let’s say Andy retires; I just don’t think you can have 2 #5 starters (AJ is basically that now and, obviously, Nova) and a Phil Hughes who is not yet established. CC and Lee are great at the top, but there is too much uncertainty behind them.

  118. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 1:36 am

    ..Who’s to say his curve and change, particularly the change, would have been that good (or close to) the rest of the year?

    Who’s to say it wouldn’t? Or that it would only decline a little, thus stopping Hughes from throwing no hitters every time out but continuing to dominate? Or maybe he’d get better and more confident?

    Hughes had command of 3 pitches. He dropped his change for strikes. Dropped his curve for strikes. And had laser accuracy on his fastball.

    He dominated the minors. Learned an entire new pitch in a spring, and was poised for greatness. Which is now being realized.

    Glass isn’t half full it runneth over.

  119. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:36 am

    cash,

    lol nevermind… i was sayin you almost turned me on with that rotation then i said “no homo” an expression which is used when u say sumthing homo but dont actually mean anything homo lol

  120. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 1:37 am

    Name some starters in their first full season of starting that are “overwhelming or stellar” then, since you’re so hung up on that phrase?

  121. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:37 am

    Pat M, but what he did in the minors doesn’t count now. I never saw him pitch, but he was sort of a legend…………People are comparing Phil to that guy and many are coming up disappointed.

    JK, I suspect that they will just try and blow Lee out of the water to end it rather quickly.

  122. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:38 am

    btw to make it clear i have nothing against gays

  123. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 1:38 am

    JK August 26th, 2010 at 1:35 am
    The Yankees shouldn’t chase Lee. Just sit back like the Redsox did with Lackey and make a late bid that gets the job done.
    —————————————
    fast and furious, fast and furious 2 , fast and furious 3…. i believe cash will be all over it.

  124. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 1:38 am

    The thing about that 1 game is that it confirmed every scouting report of Hughes in the minors. Fastball with giddyup ( but not 95-96, those were false, he could touch 95-96 at times, just like he does now) that he commands superbly, hammer curve, and average to above average developing changeup.

    Now he has the same fastball after losing it due to injury for a season, has an emerging cutter, and an inconsistent curve and a change he needs to start using more.

    2008 is what did it.

  125. Rich in NJ August 26th, 2010 at 1:39 am

    No, Betsy, I am disappointed with the way the Yankees have developed both Hughes and Joba.

    “Name some starters in their first full season of starting that are “overwhelming or stellar” then, since you’re so hung up on that phrase?”

    Gooden, but why do you think that was meant to diminish Hughes? It isn’t.

  126. JK August 26th, 2010 at 1:39 am

    Betsy,

    I think you need to go look at #5 starters around the league. I guess Lackey is a #4 and Beckett is a #5 too. AJ is a #3 starter. When he’s on 50% of the time he’s a #1, When he’s off 50% of the time he’s a #5.

  127. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:39 am

    greenberet
    Sabathia was 17-5 in his first year

  128. Rich in NJ August 26th, 2010 at 1:40 am

    I WANT Joba to start. It just doesn’t seem like the Yankees do.

  129. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 1:40 am

    gotcha Faiaz… Lee would make any rotation salivating.

  130. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:40 am

    Jerkface, we’ll never have an answer to that. As I said, I don’t care about 2007 anymore…………Whether Phil realizes his potential has yet to be seen. I really love the kid personally – adore him, actually – but I don’t see this greatness that everyone sees. Maybe I haven’t watched enough pitching to seriously judge, but my expectations have definitely been tamped down.

  131. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 1:41 am

    Gooden was 20 years ago. Try somebody from this era.

  132. Rich in NJ August 26th, 2010 at 1:42 am

    Betsy

    Nice can be a big compliment.

    You see a woman and you think nice __________

    (fill in the blank)

  133. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 1:42 am

    Try somebody from this year

  134. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:42 am

    2008 sucked for Phil, worse than 2007. He says that he lost his confidence and wondered if he’d ever make it in the majors (or something like that). He is strong and healthy – no doubts now (knock on wood) about his being injury prone

  135. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:42 am

    Rich……Brains?

  136. Crash August 26th, 2010 at 1:42 am

    I think Lee is a lock to be a yankee. I think Pettitte will retire and Javy wont be back. Burnett is more a number 3 pitcher than a 2. I think the rotation next year will be.

    Sabathia
    Lee
    Burnett
    Hughes
    Chamberlain/Nova

  137. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 1:43 am

    Rich in NJ August 26th, 2010 at 1:40 am
    I WANT Joba to start. It just doesn’t seem like the Yankees do.
    —————————–
    i believe Wockeez will be in the Bullpenz.
    Nova can possible be a candidate… but more likely he will supplant Gaudin/ Mitre. kuroda would be a good candidate, better yet, Pettite. we will see.

    Marte is turning into steve karsay, btw, i see major surgery coming.

  138. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:43 am

    rich
    thank goodness someone else shares my feelings. I am a huge jobber fan and it seems like every1 gave up on him and is riding the Hughes bus who i also love.
    cash
    who else do you think will go after Lee?

  139. Rich in NJ August 26th, 2010 at 1:44 am

    “Gooden was 20 years ago. Try somebody from this era”

    I guess I’m getting old and it all runs together.

    Lincecum was 18-5 with an ERA+ of 169 at 24.

    Again, why is anything I said a diss of Hughes? I don’t get it.

  140. JK August 26th, 2010 at 1:44 am

    Rich in NJ ,

    I was a Joba starter guy, but he doesn’t deserve to start with his fastball command. The guy is 18+ pitches per inning.

  141. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:44 am

    JK, AJ’s another guy I love personally, but I really don’t think he’s a #3……….He’s just too inconsisten; ok – perhaps he’s a #4. The point is, he’s not a guy you can really rely on. IMO, the Yankees would be making a mistake by going with Phil/AJ/Nova as their back 3.

  142. Rich in NJ August 26th, 2010 at 1:44 am

    Betsy

    It can happen.

  143. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 1:45 am

    Hughes is having the same type of season that sabathia had

  144. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:45 am

    rich
    lince is in the NL. AL>NL but obviously he’s a damn phenom. He wont be as successful in the AL but still dominate

  145. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 1:45 am

    I really love the kid personally – adore him, actually – but I don’t see this greatness that everyone sees. Maybe I haven’t watched enough pitching to seriously judge, but my expectations have definitely been tamped down.

    Try to find anyone else in the league that does what Hughes does with what Hughes has. I reckon the list will be single digits to 0.

    No one throws 70% strikes, almsot all fastballs, with a 10% whiff rate under the age of 25. Most young phenom types make it to the league with an excellent secondary pitch like a slider.

    All I got is David Price, and he is left handed and walks far more than Hughes while not having a corresponding increase in K’s (his k:bb is less than hughes for example).

  146. Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 1:45 am

    Gooden, Vida Blue, Fernando Valenzeula, all hit the track running……..Betsy, it appears to me that it’s you whio is expressing disappointment in Phil’s first full season……Frankly, I don’t get it……

  147. JK August 26th, 2010 at 1:46 am

    Rich,

    Name someone in the AL please the NL doesn’t count lol

  148. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:46 am

    jk
    don’t you think Joba can be fixed? He’s better than a 7th inning guy.

  149. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:46 am

    When I see a man I think nice…………………sense of humor/intelligence, lol.

    I know you like Phil, so I didn’t mean to imply that you were trashing him. People need to be able to differentiate between criticism and bashing……..

  150. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 1:47 am

    Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:43 am
    rich
    thank goodness someone else shares my feelings. I am a huge jobber fan and it seems like every1 gave up on him and is riding the Hughes bus who i also love.
    cash
    who else do you think will go after Lee?
    ———————————————–
    someone cheap and who can eat innings.

  151. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 1:47 am

    Let’s let Hughes pitch in an airport

  152. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:48 am

    crash
    that rotation has like 3 pitchers with 17+ wins guaranteed

  153. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 1:49 am

    Hughes has been above average in 3 out of his 4 seasons to date, which included a lot of injury time. And he debuted at the age of 20. He is going to be good.

  154. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:49 am

    am I a bad Yankees fan to be more excited for next year than this year?

  155. Crash August 26th, 2010 at 1:50 am

    Rich in NJ August 26th, 2010 at 1:40 am
    I WANT Joba to start. It just doesn’t seem like the Yankees do.

    ————–

    I do to obviously Hughes outpitched him in spring. But I would like to see him get another shot in spring. I remember last year he had a 3.58 era through 110 ip. He was doing a respectable job and kind of collapse the last 2 months.

    I think he can still become a good starter and can be better than Burnett who they paid 80 million to. Starting pitching is too valuable I would of rather had Joba out there than people like Mosely and Mitre who have gotten starts this year.

  156. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 1:51 am

    Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 1:45 am
    Gooden, Vida Blue, Fernando Valenzeula, all hit the track running……..Betsy, it appears to me that it’s you whio is expressing disappointment in Phil’s first full season……Frankly, I don’t get it……

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    So did Score, Guidry, Ford, Bob Grim, etc. Different eras….different conditions (park size).

  157. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 1:52 am

    faiaz
    yanks will potentially have Norsi and Phelps in AAA to help by mid season with 5th spot.
    or Nova can step in.

    my thinking is that they will go for a inning eater to try to do the job first. I would love Kuroda but not Ted lilly. possibly Webb, i don’t think Padilla is horrible but he is an Ahole , so he won’t be on the yanks.

  158. JK August 26th, 2010 at 1:52 am

    Betsy,

    Sabathia, 200+ innings
    Lee, 200+ innings
    Hughes, 200 innings
    Burnett, 190 innings
    Nova/Mitre, 180 innings

    ^^^^ I would sign up for that right now!!! Nova has better breaking stuff and better velocity than Wang. If he shows decent command he can start in the majors.

  159. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:52 am

    Pat M, sort of……..I’m not disappointed in his year as a whole, but he’s pitched to about a 5 or so ERA since mid-May. Again though, that high ERA has nothing to do with why I’ve lowered my expectations. I don’t see this great stuff that everyone talks about and my concerns about his secondary pitches are well known by now. I suppose people (not you) are going to take this as me trashing him, but that’s their problem.

  160. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:53 am

    Betsy
    funny how sense of humor and intelligence are the first things on a girls mind about a guy and it is the EXACT opposite for guys

  161. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 1:53 am

    After coming back from Injury rather shakily in 2007, he closed out the season with a 2 ERA. And dominated in the playoffs.
    Last season, outside of 1 incredibly flukey disaster in orioles, he had a 3 era as a starter.
    This season he has put up an incredible 2 month stretch, followed by a more up and down period where he is pitching deeper than he has in 4 years.

  162. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 1:53 am

    Right now, the only pitcher of Hughes starting experience and age that’s better than he is would be David Price. Not bad company.

  163. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:54 am

    Jerkface, he’s got 1 pitch………two, counting the cutter, but that’s been somewhat inconsistent for him.

    We’ll just have to wait and see; I hope he proves me wrong.

  164. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 1:54 am

    I don’t see this great stuff that everyone talks about

    Do you see his starts? Its like a reliever pitching every inning. 70% fastballs, minimal soft stuff. You’d think he’d get tired or guys would hit him but they don’t.

    That’s stuff!!!

  165. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:54 am

    cash
    Kuroda really sounds good

  166. JK August 26th, 2010 at 1:55 am

    That rotation will also be backed up by this army…

    AAA
    Noesi
    Phelps
    Nova (if not in rotation)

    AA
    Brackman
    Betances
    Stoneburner
    Warren
    Banuelos

  167. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:55 am

    Faiaz, funny – but not surprising, lol. I really think a sense of humor is vital to anyone I would want to spend time with, man or woman.

  168. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 1:55 am

    He gives up 3 runs or less in 70% of his starts! He averages 6 innings per start!

  169. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:57 am

    green
    isnt the thief in the same category? he’s just 2 yrs older

  170. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 1:57 am

    JK August 26th, 2010 at 1:55 am
    That rotation will also be backed up by this army…

    AAA
    Noesi
    Phelps
    Nova (if not in rotation)

    AA
    Brackman
    Betances
    Stoneburner
    Warren
    Banuelos
    ———————
    for the purpose of 2011, i will only consider Norsi and phelps being possibly ready though.

  171. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:57 am

    JK, I’m not saying Nova can’t start, but I still look at Phil as something of a ? next year, so that’s why I wouldn’t want Nova. AJ would be a mixed bag, I have no clue what Phil would give us next year…….then add a rookie to the mix? I don’t think that’s a good idea.

  172. Rich in NJ August 26th, 2010 at 1:58 am

    I think Hughes has a tremendous upside, and whether I’m in the minority or not, I don’t think he has been developed well, yet he is succeeding despite that impediment.

    When I saw him at Trenton a few years ago, he was a GB pitcher with a very good curve. I don’t know what happened that.

  173. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 1:59 am

    betsy
    Actually I do find Sarah Silverman and Chelsea Handler attractive just for their sense of humor although they are not that good-looking. Around them I wouldn’t hesitate to be myself and fart and burp

  174. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 1:59 am

    Jerkface, I get that he’s got a good FB, but he’s got to develop those other pitches. IMO, lack of secondary stuff will limit how good he can be. I assume that he will improve on putting hitters away.

  175. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 2:00 am

    I don’t know what happened that.

    Injuries.

  176. Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 2:00 am

    Face, He’s off to a very impressive start….Consistency is next up……He’ll incoporate a keep em honest curve by next spring….If he pitches in Octobewr as a starter, don’t be shocked to see more # 2′s being called upon…..

  177. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 2:01 am

    Faiaz, lol

  178. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 2:01 am

    Rich, are you saying he wasn’t developed well post 2007? Or are you including his call up? He had 2 severe injuries, one to his base which killed his fastball for 2007, and one to his ribs which killed everything for 2008. Being unable to throw, and throw effectively in those years likely hindered him and might have caused him to lose his feel for the change he had developing (he has a new grip now) and for his curve.

  179. Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 2:02 am

    Betsy, it’s all about building blocks…….At the MLB level though……

  180. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 2:02 am

    Rich, CB said that possibly Phil doesn’t get groundballs because of the spin on his FB. Who knows? He got them in the minors……….I don’t suggest he has to become Wang-like, but it’s strange how he’s a completely different pitcher.

  181. JK August 26th, 2010 at 2:02 am

    Betsy,

    Ok now you’re going overboard, How in the world is Phil a question mark next year?

    He’s a solid #3 starter right now & would be ready to go 200 innings.

    If they bring in Lee they would also have more stability at #2, so there would be less pressure on the rest of the rotation.

  182. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 2:03 am

    I will argue against Hughes not being developed correctly up until he was injured, but after that I really think it was just a series of unfortunate injuries (getting hurt in rehab, stress fracture in his ribs) that conspired against him.

    The yankees brought him to the majors in 07 with 2 plus pitches and a working third.

  183. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 2:04 am

    Pat M, that will be dangerous given how poor his curve has been………….If he starts, I don’t have any expectations for him, to be honest. If he’s good, it wouldn’t shock me. If he’s bad, it wouldn’t shock me……………I’m also still a bit unnerved by his lousy post-season last year.

  184. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 2:04 am

    I don’t suggest he has to become Wang-like, but it’s strange how he’s a completely different pitcher.

    I would love to see his GB% increase, but pitchers lose their minor league GB% all the time. Matusz went from 50% GB in the minors to 35% in the majors.

  185. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 2:05 am

    JK, and this was such a nice conversation too, lol.

    Sorry, I have no idea what to expect from him next year………..I’m not talking innings, I’m talking performance.

  186. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 2:05 am

    I’m also still a bit unnerved by his lousy post-season last year.

    But not un-unnerved by his good postseason start in 07?

  187. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 2:05 am

    i wish the Yanks had our own version of Tim Wakefield! the guy was such valuable piece for the sox all these years.

    Tim Wakefield type would be perfect for a fifth starter on the yanks.

  188. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:05 am

    honestly who will have a better 1-4 than us if our rotation is cc, lee, hughes, burnett?

  189. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 2:06 am

    Jerkface, I didn’t know that about Matusz………seems kind of weird.

  190. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:06 am

    Boone feels the same way about Wake :)

  191. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 2:07 am

    And if Hughes continues to develop his cutter and gets his change to induce weak contact, he will find more ground balls. And he already has the 6th highest infield fly ball rate for starters with 100 IP this year…

    And an IF FB is as good as a K

  192. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 2:07 am

    Jerkface, at the time I was blown away by how composed he was………….but that was a long time ago. Remember- I didn’t say I thought Phil would stink, I just said he could go either way (and not necessarily because of the pressure. If he pitches in those games the way he’s pitching now, it’s a question mark as to what you’d get from him)

  193. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:07 am

    boy i really hope we get to claim Kuroda off waivers.

  194. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 2:08 am

    Jerkface, I didn’t know that about Matusz………seems kind of weird.

    Its not, minor league hitters aren’t good. Guys with good stuff or pitchability will induce more weak contact in the minors.

    What IS weird is when guys show no GB tendencies in the minors and suddenly increase in the majors. There was a whole article about it on fangraphs.

  195. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 2:09 am

    Jerkface, oh – that makes a lot of sense.

    I check out fangraphs occasionally, but I don’t love their articles, so………….

  196. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 2:09 am

    Well it’s ridiculous that I’ve stayed up this late, but I enjoyed the conversation. Night all!

  197. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 2:10 am

    Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:07 am
    boy i really hope we get to claim Kuroda off waivers.
    ———————————–
    since Yanks has the best record, most likely an NL contender will claim him. see Phils or Braves …so on.

  198. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 2:11 am

    since Yanks has the best record, most likely an NL contender will claim him. see Phils or Braves …so on.

    I think its too much payroll for those teams to take on. 2 mil+ I think.

  199. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:11 am

    nah, they are not gonna pay his salary… right?

  200. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:12 am

    2.7 Mill pick up for Kuroda

  201. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:13 am

    jerk
    EXACTLY

  202. JK August 26th, 2010 at 2:14 am

    Betsy,

    Unless a young pitcher consistently has a go/ao over 1.80 and throws a 2 seamer or biting cutter, you can’t really consider them a ground ball pitcher. Now if Nova starts giving up alot of outs in the air I would be disappointed, because he is a ground ball pitcher.

    As a matter of fact thats another reason I would like to see Nova get that #5 slot next year if he does well down the stretch. He’s a ground ball pitcher that will have the benefit of a major league defensive infield.

  203. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 2:14 am

    Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 2:11 am
    since Yanks has the best record, most likely an NL contender will claim him. see Phils or Braves …so on.

    I think its too much payroll for those teams to take on. 2 mil+ I think.
    ——
    i don’t know jerk, i think some contending team will block him if not NL, Phil has invested so much in this team, i really don’t think 2+ will stop them. after that, ChiSox , MN… Kuroda can be use to any contending teams.

  204. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:15 am

    btw… a little off topic… does anyone think that overall Austin Jackson’s career from next year will outshine Granderson’s? I was a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge Ajax fan.

  205. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:16 am

    don’t get me wrong, I have no qualms with “GrandY” but homegrown is homegrown.

  206. Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 2:16 am

    Betsy, go back to the video from his callup start last May in Detroit or even the next start in Texas….His curve was incredible……I do think the Yankee Organization is spoon feeding him rather than force feeding….After the results with Chamberlain, it’s one step at a time….Just think if Joba stayed a fastball pitcher who mixed in his slider where he could have been today…….Different personalities on the mound, and with Joba the horse was already out of the barn ….Phil is not going to be handled that way….He’s be handed differently in my opinion……He has very little say in what goes on out there other than follow instructions

  207. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 2:19 am

    i am really intrigue by Melky Mesa’s tools , be watching his progress in AA next year.

  208. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 2:20 am

    Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:15 am
    btw… a little off topic… does anyone think that overall Austin Jackson’s career from next year will outshine Granderson’s? I was a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge Ajax fan.
    —————————————–
    probably not, most likely not. Granderson has one thing that you can’t teach , Power!

  209. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:22 am

    point taken, cash how are you so knowledgeable about the minors. I mean I thought iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii knew my minors but jeez you are on another level.

  210. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 2:29 am

    good nite, time to watch ‘the expendable’ and pass out!

  211. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 2:29 am

    You can teach power. See Don Mattingly and Kirby Puckett.

  212. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:32 am

    the expendables? where? im stuck watching planet 51 :(

  213. Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 2:34 am

    GB, did you see Herb Score pitch ??? Bob Grim ???? Serious heat

  214. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:34 am

    Green
    Mattingly is the reason I am a Yankees fan, He had his power surge from 85-87. What am I missing? Who “taught” him?

  215. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 2:34 am

    parting gift for anyone wants to watch it…
    http://xtshare.com/toshare.php?Id=39170

    tell me if it works, faiaz

  216. Jerkface August 26th, 2010 at 2:38 am

    Ajax is gonna set a record for most K’s with the least amount of HRs ever and no player of that ilk has ever been successful with a below average walk rate, which Ajax features.

  217. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:39 am

    holy fudging fudge… the quality is amazing I usually go to http://www.free-tv-video-online.info/ THANX BRO

  218. Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:39 am

    jerk
    lol, ok ok i feel better

  219. Cashmoney August 26th, 2010 at 2:40 am

    Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:39 am
    holy fudging fudge… the quality is amazing I usually go to http://www.free-tv-video-online.info/ THANX BRO
    ———————–
    yeah, it’s not bad. for something you have paid in a movie theater.

  220. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 3:07 am

    Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 2:34 am
    GB, did you see Herb Score pitch ??? Bob Grim ???? Serious heat

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Yeah, I’m sure I did before he was hit, just not sure. I did see him pitch after he was traded to the White Sox. Still had the big fastball and nasty curve, just absolutely no control. He said that when he threw the ball, he would flinch, expecting the ball to come back to him again. He said he was a mental wreck after that and couldn’t get over it. My grandfather said he was a younger version of a prime time Sandy Koufax and left handed version of Feller. Throwing upwards of 100 MPH.

    Never saw the young Bob Grim, but, saw him after he stopped being a 20 win rookie. He hurt his arm the next year and never the same, so they put him in the bullpen. That’s when I saw him. More of a curve baller then.

  221. GreenBeret7 August 26th, 2010 at 3:13 am

    Faiaz August 26th, 2010 at 2:34 am
    Green
    Mattingly is the reason I am a Yankees fan, He had his power surge from 85-87. What am I missing? Who “taught” him?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    The most minor league home runs Mattingly and Puckett ever hit was 9. Mattingly’s first MLB season was 4 for half of a season. Lou Piniella took him to the backing cage the next spring and taught him how to pull the ball and get lift on it.

    Puckett, in his 1st season in more than 550 At bats had 0 homers and in almost 680 at bats the next season had 4. He went to 31 after Tony Oliva taught him to pull the ball and get lift.

  222. Pat M. August 26th, 2010 at 3:35 am

    GB…..Just finished walking the hounds, time for bed my friend….Catch you later & as always your insights and contributions certainly goes along way in keeping this joint buoyant

  223. Doreen August 26th, 2010 at 7:13 am

    JK has it right. Hughes was NOT the first call up way back when. He was a last resort at the time. Cashman was avoiding him, calling up no-names and crossing his fingers. But pitchers kept getting hurt. I remember thinking, it seemed like a sort of destiny. And then when he goes out and he’s throwing a no-hitter – wow! Boy, did that not end the way the fairytale was supposed to.

    But it’s been a while now. And though no one could say that this season has been a perfect one for Hughes, it has been a gosh-darn good one. He still needs to work on some things and really no one should have expected much different from that standpoint. But he’s got a fine “stat line” and he’s been one of the most consistent starters for the Yankees this season.

    Given his age, history and short experience, who can realistically be disappointed in Phil Hughes? I believe you can acknowledge he is a work in progress and still be pleased with his performance this season and hopeful and excited for his future.

    And I sure wish they’d been able to bank some runs from the night before. And Grandy hit two balls really well last night that travelled far but not far enough. Tex? Like apples and oranges from one night to the next. That’s baseball. I’m glad they’re out of Toronto.

  224. upstate kate August 26th, 2010 at 7:19 am

    Bad outing for Phil, but I am not concerned about him. What a great season he is having.

    Looking for the bright side, Javy was wonderful. And, since the rays and sox also lost, no change in the standings but another game off the books. I am happy the sox and rays get to beat up on each other this weekend.

  225. upstate kate August 26th, 2010 at 7:24 am

    Doreen
    Did you get your daughter moved? How are both of you adjusting?

  226. ron August 26th, 2010 at 7:25 am

    I wonder how concerned hughes is because nova pitched much better against the same team & has more pitches in his arsenal?

  227. upstate kate August 26th, 2010 at 7:33 am

    why would he be concerned? Phil has pitched a lot against the Jays, Nova has not. The Jays would not have much of a scouting report on Nova, just like when the Yankees face a pitcher they haven’t seen before. And while I appreciate Nova, he needs to pitch a lot more before I would even put him and Phil in the same sentance.

  228. Doreen August 26th, 2010 at 7:37 am

    Good morning, upstate kate.

    No, her move-in date is two-weeks from today. We’ve been busy shopping for all the things you need to set up an apartment (without benefit of a “shower,” it’s a lot!) and going through her belongings here to try and figure out what’s going and what’s staying here. Also setting up cable/internet/phone and the electric, getting renter’s insurance, all that stuff. It’s almost keeping my mind off the fact that she’ll be in her own place very shortly.

    ****

    I agree about Javy. I think it was a good move taking him out of the rotation – kind of like stopping a runaway train. Even though I am disappointed the Yankees couldn’t pick up a game in the standings yesterday, there’s one less game to be played, and really the Yankees and Tampa are in the same boat. Really keeping pace with each other, which is both frustating and exciting at the same time.

  229. ron August 26th, 2010 at 7:41 am

    I agree he needs to pitch more to be on hughes level but the human nature side of it tells me that hughes sees another pitcher in the rotation who has a decent arsenal of pitches & pitched well against a very tough lineup that just beat up on hughes.

    I am more inclined to believe that he feels the pressure of nova compared to him thinking along the lines of what you wrote above.

  230. upstate kate August 26th, 2010 at 7:48 am

    it does seem these guys thrive on competition…I was impressed w/ Nova’s confidence on the mound, which Phil also has.
    it also seems like Joba has pitched better since D-rob has more or less taken over as the EIG, so maybe he is feeling the pressure as well

  231. ron August 26th, 2010 at 7:49 am

    It can all change in one game if nova gets bombed while hughes pitches a gem but for this one moment in time hughes would not be human if he wasn’t worried about a rotation spot,i would be too.

  232. upstate kate August 26th, 2010 at 7:51 am

    I think Javy and even AJ should worry about a rotation spot!

  233. ron August 26th, 2010 at 7:58 am

    Imo hughes will be fine but he has to develope an offspeed pitch or two regardless of what happened along his developmental path.

    I’d like too see him develope a changeup,2 curveballs,a tight one & a looping one too go with his fastball/cutter.

    The problem that i see is even if the location of his fastball is great they are all thrown at basically the same speed so hitters are not guessing speed,they are locking in on a certain part of the plate & fouling the rest off too stay alive til a mistake comes along.

  234. 86w183 August 26th, 2010 at 8:02 am

    Let’s not over analyze a lousy start. I don’t think it’s anything more than that.

    To me the big problem last night was too much pitching away from contact and not enough pitching on the inner half. Other than CC and Mo the Yankees pitchers all need to go inside more often and more effectively.

  235. MaineYankee August 26th, 2010 at 8:05 am

    Doreen

    Yard sales. :lol:

  236. ron August 26th, 2010 at 8:06 am

    Javy yes burnett not so much.

    Imo if nova pitches another good game vaz should be the long man for good .

    I just can’t see vaz pitching in a big game for us,burnett pitched a few good games in the 2009 playoffs for us,has a few more years on his contract & is making 16.5 million a year not to mention we are a little short on pitching.

    The main thing is getting pettitte back,i like a rotation of

    cc
    pettitte
    burnett
    hughes
    nova

    for now.

  237. SJ44 August 26th, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Why does Phil Hughes have to be graded by some on this impossible to please curve?

    Jon Lester gave up EIGHT runs in TWO innings, at home, to this Blue Jays team and the same people who go overboard in their criticism of Hughes shrug it off like it’s no big deal.

    The kid had a bad night. Guess what? It happens.

    NO first full year starting pitcher is fully formed with four pitches he can throw in any count.

    CC wasn’t, David Price isn’t, nor is anyone else.

    Why does Phil Hughes have to be right now to satisfy people?

    He’s going to be a VERY good pitcher. In some ways, he already is.

    It’s a shame some folks are too blind or ignorant to see it.

  238. MaineYankee August 26th, 2010 at 8:09 am

    I don’t get how after one start Nova is trustworthy and Hughs is a question mark.

    Small sample size.

  239. Don Vito A. Bellamo August 26th, 2010 at 8:15 am

    Good Morning, SJ44. Thanks again for your comments. Have a great day !

  240. upstate kate August 26th, 2010 at 8:16 am

    even the best pitchers get rocked on occasion…how about Cliff Lee’s start against the Os? and Halladay has had a few bad games as well this year.

    speaking of which, Philly fans must be ready to jump off a bridge being swept by the Astros at home :)

  241. SJ44 August 26th, 2010 at 8:18 am

    Really, don’t go overboard on Ivan Nova.

    He’s not going to be the savior to the pitching staff.

    It’s more likely AJ strings together some good starts than Nova morphs into CC Sabathia for six weeks.

    Let’s hope Andy has a pain free bullpen session on Ftiday.

    If he does, he’s back in 2-2 1/2 weeks.

  242. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 8:19 am

    Then get me a seeing eye dog or a teacher ……..

    I did not say he needed to have 4 fully formed plus pitches, but the facts are facts. Phil USED to have a good curve – or maybe it was very good – and now he does not. If that doesn’t “concern” you, that’s fine, but getting on people for feeling otherwise is ridiculous. The execution of the change concerns me less, it’s his reluctance to use it at all. SJ, you said in ST he could survive being a 2 pitch pitcher – that’s not true at all.

    I do disagree with Ron – Phil should not be looking over his shoulder at Nova. Nova may have a better repertoire, but it’s one start.

  243. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 8:20 am

    Kate, people are making the mistake that any concerns about Phil are based on tonight’s game…………for me, they are NOT. If these same people insist on misreading my posts or looking for an argument because they can’t conduct a conversation without resorting to snark or insults, that’s on them.

  244. ron August 26th, 2010 at 8:22 am

    SJ44

    The reality is i don’t need you to speak for me or about me.

    I have followed hughes,defended hughes with people i work with for years & will continue to do so.

    If at the age of 26 hughes has the same issues then i give up.

    I always said it will take at least another year or two because of the time he lost.
    I am not saying or have i said that he should be there now,don’t assume.

    An offspeed pitch or two is going to have to be developed to some degree for him to be an elite pitcher.

    I never once bashed hughes,ever.

  245. pat August 26th, 2010 at 8:25 am

    “Let?s not over analyze a lousy start.”

    Too late!

    If someone told me Hughes could get 15-18 wins this year, I would have said where do I sign.

    How he got them and what pitch he used to get them is secondary to helping the team win and learning on the job.

    In a perfect world, every player is fully developed before they take a major league field but the world isn’t perfect so you make do with what you have and try to learn from the stumbles along the way.

  246. Howe Farr August 26th, 2010 at 8:25 am

    It’s funny how people’s opinion on phil hughes change so fast. As someone once said, you don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

    Thank god some people on this board don’t run the yankees, if not, it would be the late 80′s all over again.

  247. SJ44 August 26th, 2010 at 8:26 am

    Kate,

    Don’t you get it? Every starting pitcher is allowed to have a bad night, or bad stretch, except Phil Hughes.

    If he has a bad night, it’s a national tragedy that insures he’s a question mark in the future and will never develop.

    People like Jim Palmer, Jim Kaat, and Buck Martinez, all former players who know a little bit about pitching, LOVE his attacking approach to hitters.

    They know he still has room to grow. Yet, they think he is anything but a question mark right now. They think he’s one of the best young pitchers in the league (which he is) and will only get better.

    It’s a shame some Yankee fans can’t see the same thing.

  248. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 8:28 am

    Well I see the crowd is different in the morning than it is in the late evening. I was able to have a very nice conversation late last night…………no insults, no snarkiness, no sarcasm.

  249. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 8:29 am

    LOL here we go again – people reading what they want to read. Have it your way, SJ.

  250. ron August 26th, 2010 at 8:31 am

    Betsy

    I did not say he should be,i said he might be.

    If nova gets bombed his next time out that changes but if he pitches a gem & you are in hughes position would you be?

    Of course you would.

  251. Doreen August 26th, 2010 at 8:32 am

    No one know what goes on in the Yankees clubhouse. No one knows for sure what the game plan is for Phil Hughes for this season, pitch-wise. I think Pat M brought up an interesting point that the Yankees may in fact want Phil Hughes to pitch a certain way. At least it brought a new wrinkle to the discussion.

    As I stated earlier, it is not at cross-purposes to recognize Hughes is both a work in progress AND having a good season, a season to be proud of and to build on. And Yankees fans should be excited about his first full season as a starter. Excellent won-lost record; good stat line; ERA good enough to show he kept his team in almost every game he started; and excellent health. An all-star season. And, though not likely, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that he could be a 20-game winner.

  252. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 8:32 am

    Ron, no….Phil is more confident than that. Let’s see Nova navigate through the waters of a major league season before we start assuming Phil is worried about losing his spot to him.

  253. SJ44 August 26th, 2010 at 8:34 am

    Betsy,

    We get it. You will spend the entire day lamenting Phil Hughes.

    Since 2007, he developed a cutter, a plus pitch for him.

    That has taken over from the curveball as his second best pitch.

    If you watched the game last night, his cutter and fastball were fantastic. They were exploding out of his hand. His command was off. That’s going to happen occasionally to EVERY pitcher. That’s why they have bad nights.

    As Pat said, any logical thinking fan would have GLADLY signed up in March for what Hughes has given them this season and the season isn’t even over yet.

    He’s still learning and growing as a pitcher.

    Why not enjoy what he is right now, instead of wrongly speculating what he won’t be in the future.

  254. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 8:37 am

    LOL I have no intention of lamenting the problems of Phil Hughes as they simply aren’t important to me.

    Why you have to get so defensive about Phil is beyond me; so what, so I don’t think right now he looks like a future stud? What the heck is the big deal? Ah, last night seems so far away. Pat M at least has the decently to ask why I feel the way I do civilly………

  255. SJ44 August 26th, 2010 at 8:37 am

    Let’s not play victim today Betsy.

    Your criticism of Hughes goes over the top everytime he has a bad day.

    Let’s not spend another day ruminating over the future of Phil Hughes.

    He will be just fine.

  256. ron August 26th, 2010 at 8:38 am

    Thank the lord i still have faith in hughes.

    Hughes can & will be great but not by pumping nothing but fasballs,not happening.

    There are also a lot of people that know about pitching that say hughes is going to have to develope an offspeed pitch to be a better pitcher,i tend to believe it.

  257. Howe Farr August 26th, 2010 at 8:38 am

    If one were to look deep into the numbers of every player on the yankees, you can come up with a problem. For example CC’s walks per nine are trending up, his K per nine are trending down and his walk to k ratio is going the wrong way. Reason for concern? Maybe, should you harp on it every single time he pitches? Perhaps not.
    The good thing about baseball is that its not a one man sport, and if Phil has a bad day, you look for silver lining, in that yesterday we had a good performance by Javy Vazquez and Nunez getting key hits when needed. It’s a long season and it gets old when one pitcher’s problem gets so over talked about on this board…but whatever. I guess it is what it is when it comes to some people on this board.

  258. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 8:39 am

    Also, I keep saying this but you won’t listen: I don’t care about last night – it has nothing to do with why I feel the way I do. If you don’t believe me, ok then fine…………but you’d be wrong.

    You make it sound like I think Phil is utter trash…………and that’s ridiculous.

  259. Doreen August 26th, 2010 at 8:40 am

    Betsy -

    Forgive me, but how can you say they are not important to you? Phil Hughes makes up about 75% of what you post.

  260. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 8:40 am

    I’m not playing victim, SJ, you just can’t deal with someone having a difference of opinion. I had a great conversation last night with several regulars about just this topic and none of them took offense (seemingly) at my opinion.

  261. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 8:42 am

    Doreen, that’s completely unfair…………but I’m not going to get into an argument with you. What did you do, get a calculator out and go through my posts? Ok.

  262. SJ44 August 26th, 2010 at 8:42 am

    How does he not look like a future stud?

    That’s EXACTLY what he looks like.

    What did you expect from him this year?

    He’s exceeded everyone’s expectations this year.

    From the start of the season until now, factoring in health, he’s been the Yankees second best starting pitcher this year.

    How many folks here thought that would be the case in March? I certainly didn’t.

    That indicates what his future could be and that’s a top of the rotation starting pitcher for a playoff team.

    I’d say that’s a pretty good place to be.

  263. Betsy August 26th, 2010 at 8:45 am

    Well hey, have a nice morning……………..I’m going to despite the fact that I’ll apparently be sitting shivah for Phil

  264. LGY August 26th, 2010 at 8:47 am

    Having more pitches =/= a better repertoire. Having more pitches =/= better stuff.

    Not every pitch is on the same scale. It is similar to when CB talked about 5 tool players and how every tool is not equal. Hughes’ fastball alone gives him great stuff. Almost every pitcher in baseball would kill for that pitch.

  265. SJ44 August 26th, 2010 at 8:47 am

    Ron,

    Nobody is saying he doesn’t have to develop more pitches.

    However, this late in the year, you have to play to your strengths as a pitcher.

    For Phil, that’s fastball, cutter and curveball in that order.

    As he continues to develop, he will add more depth to his reportoire.

    His development pattern mirrors CC’s at their same stage.

    Hopefully, it continues in that direction.

  266. Doreen August 26th, 2010 at 8:51 am

    Betsy -

    I’m sorry. But a majority of your posting is about Phil Hughes. And I only said that because you said it wasn’t important to you. But it is. I don’t care how often you post about him – when I don’t feel like reading about Phil Hughes, I skip over. But don’t say you don’t care when it is obvious you do care.

  267. SJ44 August 26th, 2010 at 8:54 am

    LGY,

    Phil Hughes is one of the few starting pitchers in baseball that can locate his fastball consistently to all four quadrants of the plate. That’s like having four pitches because hitters have to cover all four quadrants and that’s very tough to do.

    Cliff Lee is another guy who can do it and that’s what makes him so good.

    When command is off, as it was for Hughes last night and as it’s been for Lee lately, you scuffle. It happens.

    The difference is, Hughes is only 24 years old.

    When you have his base as a young pitcher, the ONLY thing that prevents you from being great is health.

    If Jim Palmer, Jim Kaat, Buck Martinez, and about 99% of the people around the game can see it in Hughes, I don’t know why some fans can’t.

    He’s a work in progress. So far, he’s exceeding any realistic expectations.

    I don’t know how folks can’t be pleased with what they are seeing this year.

  268. Howe Farr August 26th, 2010 at 8:54 am

    Doreen August 26th, 2010 at 8:51 am
    Betsy -

    I?m sorry. But a majority of your posting is about Phil Hughes. And I only said that because you said it wasn?t important to you. But it is. I don?t care how often you post about him ? when I don?t feel like reading about Phil Hughes, I skip over. But don?t say you don?t care when it is obvious you do care.
    _______________________________________________________

    Not only that but the change so much.
    Last week was that he didn’t have “swing and miss stuff”
    Then he pitched a good game and she was making fun of other bloggers who were blogging about the fact that Phil wasn’t a good pitcher.
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