Rough night for Aceves
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Aug 25, 2010 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Through his first four minor league rehab outings, Alfredo Aceves had a pretty good pitching line — 7.1 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 3 BB, 8 K — but two days ago Joe Girardi insisted Aceves needed to get better. “Not quite sharp enough,” he said.
And so Aceves made another rehab appearance last night: 1.1 IP, 6 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 0 BB, 0 K. Five of the hits were doubles. Not one of the guys who doubled off him is hitting better than .272 in Double-A. George Kontos stranded a runner for him.
Not a good night, but as Girardi has said more than once, this is basically spring training for Aceves. He hadn’t pitched since May 8, and you can bet he’ll make at least one more rehab outing before being activated.
Chad Gaudin pitched really well until last night, Sergio Mitre has a .230 opponents batting average this season and the Yankees are planning to carry 13 pitchers the rest of the way. They can afford to wait.
Poor Ace. It has really been a lost year for him. I am still hopeful that he can contribute down the stretch, though.
I wonder if he will need surgery in the off-season?
Good morning –
Not sure what to make of the numbers for Ace, other than that the line is not pretty. But, like a ST line, the real story isn’t necessarily in the numbers. I wonder what the impression was of Tony Franklin and the scouts and coaches in attendance. It does validate Joe’s feeling that Ace isn’t quite ready yet.
Joe
I saw Ace pitch in Portland last weekend.
He didn’t put up bad numbers but he didn’t look sharp.
Against ML hitters he would have been hit hard.
His breaking ball wasn’t sharp.
According to the gun his velocity was a bit low as well.
Gaudin got out of some jams, but i wouldnt say he pitched ‘well’ last night.
Yea rough year for Ace…hopefully he will find it here soon and be able to contribute down the stretch…Luckily getting him back doesn’t seem as essential as it did a couple months ago.
Yeah, Gaudin wasn’t sharp. Good thing the Yanks had a 9-run lead or things could have gotten dicey.
I think the bigger picture with Ace is, how is his back? Was this just a bad outing, or was the back an issue?
There really is no rush for Aceves, but minor league games are running out, no?
If they didn’t have a 9 run lead Joe would have used the BP differently.
Aren’t these appearances more about how he rebounds the day after pitching, and feels on the mound while letting it go at full force? It at least seems possible they told him to not focus too much on results and work on his pitches and sharpness, as they would normally instruct a pitcher to do during Spring Training. Obviously it looks like a bad stat line, but if he was throwing with velocity/purpose and his back feels good today then it’s another step in the right direction.
Doreen, I remember the Santee fires …..I’m fortunate that I do not live near the canyons or wooded areas……In fact, I live about 1/2 mile from where you had dinner at The Villa Nova……Glad your trip met all expectations
blake,
it’s amazing, isn’t it, that the bullpen, which was such a liability early, has now become one of the team’s greatest strengths? i remember how concerned i was early on when ace went out but now if he can’t make it all the way back this year there are capable arms to take his place.
JM,
Yea it is and it seems like Girardi has a real knack for figuring bullpens out. It was the same thing last year and it worked itself out (of course Hughes was a big part of that) but it seems it is one of his strengths as a manager. I like the Yankee pen as good as anyones at this moment in time.
Blake/JM
and not only is Ace out, but Marte as well…remember him?
Ace is a workhorse type of pitcher, he’s his sharpest when he’s being overused – a Joe Torre dream. Because of this I’m not sure why the Yankees don’t just shut him down for the season and let him come back fresh next year. They are not desperate for bullpen help and he probably only be used once or twice a week which will make him less effective.
Kate,
Yea and he’s a guy that I think could actually make a big impact in the playoffs again this year if he could get healthy. Can’t say enough about Logan though and how he’s stepped up to fill that void.
So who is the 7 man bullpen in the postseason?
1.) Rivera
2.) Robertson
3.) Wood
4.) Chamberlain
5.) Logan
6.) Marte (IF healthy)
7.) (and 6 if Marte isn’t): Aceves, Moseley, Vasquez?
Or a wildcard? Nova, if he strings some good starts together and continually shows off that 95-97 fastball?
There’s a school of thought that hardthrowers excel in the postseason. Adding Nova (would could maybe dial it up even more in 1-2 inning stints) would give the Yanks extreme hardthrowing length in the pen…
I think Ace will pitch at least a couple of times more in the minors before September 1st.
Pat M -
Nice area. Lots of big boats!
Stuckey,
Good question and probably still too early to know. If Nova strings together some solid outings then I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on the roster. We shall see.
In the “leader” columns this morning, I also noticed Joba is among the league leaders in games appeared in. I was surprised.
I doubt Nova will be in the bullpen in the post-season.
He’s used to starting and he would have no real role in the pen.
If Marte is healthy, he will be in the pen because Girardi likes having 2 lefties in the pen. Marte also has significant post-season experience which plays a big role in configuring the roster.
If healthy, Rivera, Robertson, Wood, Chamberlain, Logan and Marte have spots set in the pen.
The last spot will probably come down to Mitre, Moseley. Gaudin, Aceves and Vazquez.
That will shake out depending on health and matchups.
Assuming Pettitte is healthy, Andy, CC, AJ and Hughes will be the starters in the post-season.
“In the “leader” columns this morning, I also noticed Joba is among the league leaders in games appeared in. I was surprised.”
Who’s quietly been very, VERY good for a month now.
Perhaps the talk of him being a lost cause, and questions of his maturity, conditioning and the Yanks handling of him was premature?
Doreen, lot’s of boats, however I can assure you, noen of which are mine
NoMaas interviewed Senior VP Mark Newman…
http://nomaas.org/2010/08/when.....rk-newman/
Remember, they will NOT carry 5 starters in the playoffs. Only 4.
So one of their starters (between Javy and Hughes, I’d guess…unless Andy is still hurt) is going out to the pen, or isn’t going to make the roster.
If it’s Hughes, he definitely goes to the pen.
If it’s Javy…I’d say it’s 50/50.
I guess the other possibility is AJ, but…honestly…I don’t see them taking him out of the 4 man playoff rotation. He might slip down, some, rather than taking the #2 hole. But I would be shocked if they didn’t use him.
I also don’t think they carry Marte and Logan. Right now, I think they just carry Logan. Marte would have to come back and prove he can pitch better than Logan has. Logan’s earned the Lefty specialist (and then some) role in the pen, this year.
So, assuming Andy is healthy, your candidates for #6 and #7 are:
1) Hughes/Javy
2) Moseley
3) Ace (assuming healthy and effective)
There’s a couple other outside shots (Marte, Nova), too. And there’s no telling if you catch lightening in a bottle, somewhere, during the September call ups.
Mosely is making a case to be used on the postseason roster in a 1 or 2 inning role.
SJ44,
I agree with all, with the lone exception of Nova not even possibly being a factor. I’d suggest perhaps a VERY good string of starts could put him in the conversation, particularly if Aceves can’t answer the bell. VERY particularly if Marte can’t answer the bell either.
At this stage I’d agree Moseley would be ahead in the pecking order, but not sure Yanks really have any postseason expectations for Mitre or Gaudin. They’d be blowout insurance, which I suppose you might need with Burnett, but Nova could give them length too.
Not saying it’s likely, just imagine it’s possible.
For those that don’t want to read the whole article, I thought this was interesting:
GW: Cito Culver (1st round pick in 2010) also received the bump to Staten Island (along with Gary Sanchez and Rob Segedin). What have you seen out of him so far?
MN: Really good young defender at shortstop…I don’t know that we’ve had a better defender right out of the chute than him. The kid coming from Rochester, New York…his summer coaches, his high school coaches must’ve done a really good job with him because he is an advanced defender. He’s got good tools, he’s got a great attitude about the game. He’s got work ethic…he enjoys playing. We’re very happy with him.
“Who’s quietly been very, VERY good for a month now.
Perhaps the talk of him being a lost cause, and questions of his maturity, conditioning and the Yanks handling of him was premature?”
Very good. 8 baserunners and 1 run allowed over his last 13 appearances covering 13 innings. It’s been almost exclusively low leverage situations, but the best way to get back into high leverage spots is show you can do it in the low leverage spots. Joe G used him late in a tie game the other night, perhaps a sign that he is regaining some confidence in Chamberlain.
CountryClub -
Wow. There’s just so much time between now and when, you know? Fingers definitely crossed.
Good morning all,
Just catching up with the morning news on the Blog.
_________________________________________________________
Erin,
Please bring home a Yankees win on Saturday. Is CC pitching? Cano will bring it home for you; I am sure of that.
_______________________________________________
We should only be fortunate enough to have to worry about having too many pitchers for the playoffs, assuming we make it, of course. For me, if the Pettitte is healthy, that will mean a lot for us as fans and more importantly for the team. Nova has also been in the bullpen in the past. I am aware it is early to think about adding him. Those are the ‘problems’ I hope we have have at the end of September.
Last night no one here wanted to talk about the game. I enjoyed every minute of it.
I think Ace may have his back surgery in the winter. I remember reading somewhere that that was the plan. Tough year for him. Fortunately for the Yanks, others have stepped up in his place. The flip side, is that he will have some competition next year.
Interview with Gary Sanchez. Seems like he has a good head on his shoulders.
http://www.silive.com/siyankee.....nchez.html
Yeah, Doreen. They’re in the process of doing the same thing they did with catcher. They’re loading up on young SS’s; the more they get in the system, the better the odds that one pans out.
good morning SAS
I am hoping that Andy’s injury is a blessing in disguise and he comes back healthy and well rested.
I would definitely recommend reading that interview on Nomaas with Newman. A lot of good information in there.
Good read on the Newman interview. Been on vacation. Didn’t notice they moved some of the GCL kids up to SI. Good for them. Early returns suggest that’s a little bigger jump than I had imagined, but those are small samples and it’s good to get the experience either way.
I think Nova’s problem in terms of making the post-season roster is, he is an “up in the zone” pitcher who lacks that consistent, second plus pitch.
Unlike Joba in ’07, who has 2 plus pitches and worked more down in the zone, Nova doesn’t do that yet.
Its why it makes him a longshot for a post-season roster spot, IMO.
Joba? Moving him out of the 8th inning and into lower leverage situations has helped him.
Its probably best to keep him in that role the rest of the way.
The one thing we have seen with Joba in his career to date, and its his biggest weakness IMO is, he gets too comfortable too quickly. That’s when his lack of focus and maturity on the mound kicks in.
I think you have to keep a fire under him, and not award him anything, in order to keep him focused.
It seems that when he is pitching for survival on the roster, he brings a much better sense of urgency, focus and productivity to his role on the team.
Morning all –
Love the talk about the ‘pen and the starting rotation this morning. What concerns me most is this: We’re all talking about Andy being back as if that’s a really good possibility, but I’m starting to worry. I know he’s not behind schedule now or anything, but I’m afraid we need to consider a post season without him. My thinking on the matter is that even if he gets back on time (I’m privately of the belief he won’t) he won’t be 100% and a shaky Andy going into October is terrifying to me..
Going to a couple of SI Yankees games next week. Looking forward to seeing the kids.
Nice interview with Gary Sanchez there. Hard to believe he’s only 17.
SAS August 25th, 2010 at 10:17 am
Erin,
Please bring home a Yankees win on Saturday. Is CC pitching? Cano will bring it home for you; I am sure of that.
*******************************
Morning SAS. Yes, CC is pitching on Saturday. I saw him last year when they were in Chicago too.
Thanks for the Cano good vibes. I just know he’ll have a good game on Saturday.
Upstate Kate,
Good point about Andy. He will be well rested and maybe stronger than he would have been w/o the injury. We can hope this is a blessing in disguise.
Unless the groin muscle is completely torn, Andy should be back by Mid-September.
If he is, that’s plenty of time for him to be ready for the post-season.
In fact, if he’s healthy, he will be the freshest he’s ever been heading into a post-season.
That’s the positive of being out two months. Less wear and tear on the arm and body.
Friday will be key. If he can throw off the mound pain free, his return can get back on track.
“My thinking on the matter is that even if he gets back on time (I’m privately of the belief he won’t) he won’t be 100% and a shaky Andy going into October is terrifying to me..”
No sense worrying about something neither definite, under anyone’s control and/or there are any preferable alternatives to.
There’s no rush in bringing Aceves back. However, I’d like to see Girardi start using Kerry Wood a little more in closer games. Is there a reason we are putting Robertson, Boone Logan and Joba out there but not Wood in games where the Yankees hold a three run lead or less? I don’t get it.
question: if swish has to be out a few days, don’t we need to send someone back to AAA and bring up someone for the bench? only 3 as it is.
Given the histrionics surrounding his selection, Cito Culver is now without a doubt my current adopted rooting interest in the minor league system.
Good to hear the positive impressions of his defense. He held his own in rookie ball with the bat, particularly from the left side.
Just for sake of fun, he had a FAR better 17-y.o. pro rookie campaign than a certain future HOF legend-in-the-making SS
I realize there isnt a whole lot that can be done if Andy ends up not being 100%.
I have two schools of thought I keep battling: On one hand, I have tremendous faith in the Yankees training/medical staff and evaluators. So the fact that Andy has been out longer than expected can be contributed to these guys doing their due diligence and making sure he is absolutely healthy for the playoff race. Also, the fact that Andy is a professional and a vet who has been in situations like this before is really encouraging.
The other (more evil) school of thought revolves around a secretly very injured Andy that will push himself back before he’s fully prepared and either re-injure himself or throw softballs over the plate, putting our World Series chances and my sanity in complete peril.
JM -
Have fun at the SI games. I was hoping they’d have a day game in there somewhere. I won’t do that drive for a night game.
Stuckey
I have been a Culver fan from the start b/c he is a some what local kid. I never have a clue who the draft picks are, so I don’t get too concerned..that is what scouts are for.
Shame
I prefer to think that since the Yankees are playing well, there is no rush to get Andy back and they are just being cautious
“Given the histrionics surrounding his selection, Cito Culver is now without a doubt my current adopted rooting interest in the minor league system.”
I remember the night he was drafted. The things that people were posting on here about him were despicable. It wasn’t just the “trolls” who were doing it, many, many, regular posters where leading the mob…. Here’s to a bright future Cito.
and much of that was from posters who had no clue who any of the prospects were, and were relying on the media
thanks again SJ44 !
# Doreen August 25th, 2010 at 10:56 am
JM -
Have fun at the SI games. I was hoping they’d have a day game in there somewhere. I won’t do that drive for a night game.
___________________________
Thanks Doreen. It is quite a haul for me as well but I am off for about 10 days and my friend has season tickets (that apparently come with some kind of free food, too, LOL) so I figured, why not? Great time to see the kids. I love that ballpark, too.
upstate kate August 25th, 2010 at 11:09 am
and much of that was from posters who had no clue who any of the prospects were, and were relying on the media
———————–
People spend way too much time worrying about what sites like Baseball America write and forget that the Yanks actually pay money to their scouts to find good players. A site like BA is a good source of info, but it doesn’t mean their opinion is correct. In reality, it’s often very wrong.
Kate,
I agree. Since the Yankees are holding their own in his spot in the rotation. Why rush him back. It means roster moves, etc. I hope he gets to pitch 2 or 3 games before the playoffs. That should be enough to bring him up to speed for those important games at the end of the year.
RiverAveBlues Lee Jenkins says that Damon, by staying in DET, chose NYY over BOS. I think he regrets leaving the Bronx http://bit.ly/blW3as
Bill D August 25th, 2010 at 10:17 am
“Who’s quietly been very, VERY good for a month now.
Perhaps the talk of him being a lost cause, and questions of his maturity, conditioning and the Yanks handling of him was premature?”
Very good. 8 baserunners and 1 run allowed over his last 13 appearances covering 13 innings. It’s been almost exclusively low leverage situations, but the best way to get back into high leverage spots is show you can do it in the low leverage spots. Joe G used him late in a tie game the other night, perhaps a sign that he is regaining some confidence in Chamberlain.
———————————————————————————————————————
One of the most over used/misused expressions by sabergeeks is “High leverage/low leverage”.
There’s nothing low leverage about being placed into a game where your job is on the line.
New Post- Yankees farm update: Pittsburgh edition
There?s nothing low leverage about being placed into a game where your job is on the line.
–
But almost everyone in the major leagues is playing for their job / next contract / play time / a better role. Do you believe there is no difference between inserting Joba in the 8th with a 1 run lead and runners on vs 7th inning in a 4 run game with no one on?
Weird point to try and diss sabre types on, considering traditionalists intuitively move towards the same conclusions. Sabre guys just quantified it. What is “the 8th inning guy”? A guy who is placed into high leverage situations.
Good to hear that on Culver.
I love how the Yanks are stockpiling up the middle position players and big upside starting pitchers. Those are the hardest things to find and the most expensive free agency pieces.
I don’t know about everywhere else but here where I live there has been a little hint of crispness in the air the last few days…I love Fall.
“One of the most over used/misused expressions by sabergeeks is “High leverage/low leverage”.
There’s nothing low leverage about being placed into a game where your job is on the line.”
I agree with your general premise, but actually, one of the tenets of sabremetrics is looking beyond anecdotal, superficial assumptions like this.
I think you’d likely find more agreement that there is NO higher or lower leverage situations in the sabre-community than you’d find opposition.
To the slide-rule crowd, and out is an out.