Yankees knocked flat in Chicago
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Aug 27, 2010 
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A.J. Burnett had another bad start, and for a second straight game the Yankees had a starting pitcher unable to pitch out of the fourth inning. Burnett hasn’t won since July 28, and this time he allowed all nine runs in a 9-4 loss to the White Sox. Sergio Mitre pitched well in relief, but the Yankees couldn’t make up for Burnett’s struggles and couldn’t pick up a game on the Rays in the division standings.
Associated Press photo of Sergio Mitre
Go get ‘em tomorrow? With our only reliable pitcher? We need to clone CC
Put this one in the time capsule.
Then burn it.
A.J. Bustnett aka Kevin Brown.
Been a long time, Jeremy. Nice to see you here again!
Repost:
Perlo
You have to look at the life of the contracts, not one season. Jeter was worth his contract over the contractual period. It’s too early to tell on A-Rod.
Smaller commitments to Javy and Igawa don’t matter.
I think they could spend a $100m more a year and make a profit.
That’s why Hank’s quote that:
“We don’t make a lot of money because of revenue sharing, and we don’t shy away from paying salaries.”
Is so laughable.
Accrual of equity anyone?
The post game should be a good one. AJ with another great performance and losing to the W.Sox worst pitcher. Once again they are asking CC to step up so getting swept isn’t left on a rookie’s shoulders. Danks and Floyd are good pitchers and have given the Yanks problems in the past. They better bring their A game for the next 2 games. The W.Sox have been absolutely awful the last 3 weeks and the Yanks need to win this series.
I’m not listening to the post-game; I rarely do after losses……….
CR9
Yeah it’s nice to be back. Took some time off on vacation.
# Pepitone August 27th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Just admit that you don’t like A-Rod because he dissed your boyfriend Jeter in Esquire.
————————
Oh, now I see …
Not only are you stupid, but you’re a jackass to boot.
Thanks for the warning.
Gonna lie and say you met him before. Nothing worse than talking to a liar. Dumbass.
So begins another installment of “Rotation Roulette.”
?We don’t make a lot of money because of revenue sharing, and we don’t shy away from paying salaries.”
Hank must feel pretty secure that the Yankees financials aren’t going to be made public on deadspin to say that.
I wonder what excuses Kevin Brown I mean A.J. Burnett will come up with this time. Oh I need another catcher go get Molina, oh I didn’t like the mound, oh I’m a headcase.
1. Let Girardi go to the Cubs. Easily replaceable.
2. Start using CC on short rest everytime out like the Brewers did.
3. Get homefield offense so we don’t need to see this .730 OPS road offense in the playoffs.
What are the Yankees going to do with Burnett should they make the playoffs? At this point, there is no way you trust him with a start and since he has recently been bad so early in the game he can’t be trusted out of the bullpen either.
Rich,
I really would like to know exactly what the team’s capacity truly is but of course we’ll never know exactly.
Your spot on regarding Javy (1 year deal), but Kei cost $46 million (and they could have saved $16 million when SD claimed him on waivers in 2008).
I can’t argue with you regarding Jeter’s deal, but A-Rod’s deal is, in my opinion, the worst deal in MLB by far. 10 years at approximately $30 million/year guaranteed starting at 32 y/o for a player who was not in the most advantageous bargaining position?
My overall point is that I do think there is a breaking point at some level and it should be a consideration when constructing the roster.
Jeremy August 27th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
I wonder what excuses Kevin Brown I mean A.J. Burnett will come up with this time. Oh I need another catcher go get Molina, oh I didn’t like the mound, oh I’m a headcase.
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haha.
His early season dominance was just a mirage and has covered up how bad he has really been. He has given up 6 runs or more in half of his starts since mid-May. (and that doesn’t count the start where he was pulled early and punched the door like a moron… but if he stayed in that game, it would have been another 6+ run performance)
Looks like the IQ barometer has suddenly dropped alarmingly
Anything is better than Cervelli!!!!!!! Please anything. I beg you, anything.
Rich, sounds like a cool game show……………..or a soap opera. On today’s episode of Rotation Roulette: the Yankees are in dire straits with their rotation and they look to the Big Man to rescue them again. Can CC overcome the offensive and defensive ineptitude of his teammates? Can AJ figure out how to get major leaguers out? Can Javy regain his stuff or is he not just toast, but breadcrumbs? Will youngster Hughes step up to the plate or will his innings limits destroy him? Stay tuned for the continuing adventures of Rotation Roulette………………..
I figure they’ll wait til sep 1 to get Moeller here to backup.
# Carl August 27th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
# Pepitone August 27th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Just admit that you don’t like A-Rod because he dissed your boyfriend Jeter in Esquire.
————————
Oh, now I see …
Not only are you stupid, but you’re a jackass to boot.
Thanks for the warning.
Gonna lie and say you met him before. Nothing worse than talking to a liar. Dumbass.
————————–
OOOOhhhhh … juniors getting his little panties all in a jumble.
All because I won’t say nice things about his Arod.
Liar? Try reading comprehension sonny, or are you still in your buster browns.
Perlo
You have to include what YES network generates as well. and from what I have read, both the stadium and the network are cash cows.
Igawa isn’t on the 40 man roster for a reason: it keeps them from paying luxury tax on his contract.
If the outlay on Igawa was a problem, they would have kept spending so much.
In baseball terms, A-Rod’s contact will likely suck, but on a pure revenue generating level, it could pay for itself.
Jeter’s next contract could tell us a lot about their breaking point.
What’s he worth in baseball terms after this season?
Probably far, far, far, far, far less than he will end up getting.
I doubt that they would do that if they couldn’t.
People saying “AJ is a fine #4 starter because he is matchup against other team’s #4s” are fooling themselves.
If he pitches like he did tonight (and like he has most of the time after his hot start), it doesn’t matter who we are facing. Garcia had a 5+ ERA today, yet he settled down after he got a big lead. Expecting to rally from 5-6 runs down against any pitcher is a very tall order. Bottom line, if bad AJ shows up, the game is basically lost. He is not mediocre when he is bad, he doesn’t even give you a chance. At least he was able to grind out starts last year. This year, when he doesn’t have it, it is 6 runs at least for the opposition.
Pepitone # 25……Buster Browns , do they still make those shoes Pepi ????
Pat M.
Hey, Buster Browns, Kenney, Newberry’s, and Robert Hall were my old haunts back in the day.
ugh ugly lost I have had it with Burnett he needs to go!
Robert Hall!
We used to get our Easter clothes there every year!!!
AJ is really a #5 – this is what #5′s do, although I think AJ’s inconsistency is worse by far than a normal #5′s general mediocrity.
All this said about the pitching, I read a stat elsewhere that in the 18 losses since the ASB, the Yanks have scored more than 3 runs 4 times……that’s awful.
Gardner has to stay in the leadoff spot if the Yankees are going to go anywhere this year.
Jeter’s OPS will soon be sub .700. Saying that “he’s still one one if the top hitting shortstops” just means there are a lot of bad shortstops.
Most of those other shortstops have plus defensive value, where Jeter has minus defensive value.
It’s a moot point, because Jeter will stay at the top of the lineup and he’ll be signed to a 5-year deal and he’ll be below replacement level by next year.
But hey, whatever it takes for him to retire a Yankee.
Rich,
I think the Jeter negotiation will be fascinating. As a player, he’s probably worth no more than 3-$25 million (less if he moves to LF as I think he will within 1-2 seasons).
However, we both know that he is going to get more. I’m more concerned with the number of years than the actual dollars (3 would be appropriate).
New Buster Brown’s and PF Flyer’s always meant it was time to go back to elementary school.
I love Genius Joe’s quote in the post-game. “We need AJ to pitch well; we need to get to work; we’ll keep making adjustments”. Is he in deep denial, or does he think his audience is a bunch of idiots? And the press just goes along with him, nodding their proverbial heads.
How about adjusting AJ out of the rotation? That’s the only “adjustment” that’s going to work.
Perlo
So am I, if only because it may force the manager to play him even if he isn’t the best on the field option.
That’s my concern with A-Rod’s contract.
Fun Fact:
In 2 seasons w/ NYY, Burnett has not won a game in the month of August.
His last win in August game, against the Yankees, in August of 2008 – a 8 IP, 13 K performance in Toronto.
PF Flyers! A blast from the past.
SJ I think that Mitre has shown he can at this moment in time out pitch either Javy or Burnett. I say it is time for him to take AJ’s next start. He can’t do much worse than whet we’ve been getting and get Rene Rivera from AA. Who cares if he can hit. He is apparently a very good defensive catcher. Cervelli has come undone.
Classifying Jeter as below replacement level next year is really rough..and I’m not ready to go there. I want him to retire as a Yankee…………I see that the tail end of his career is going to be filled with lots of hate for him.
pat, you just took me back 50 years.
Rich,
I can’t see how A-Rod can hold up defensively at 3B for more than a couple of more seasons. With Tex at 1st for 6 more years, A-Rod is going to be a DH for the last 5 years of that deal.
Burnett keeps on saying that he is stinking it up then do the team a favor and ask Joe to take you out of the rotation.
If you think that Jeter will be below replacement, you probably don’t know what it means. It doesn’t mean league average.
# Doreen August 27th, 2010 at 11:25 pm
Robert Hall!
We used to get our Easter clothes there every year!!!
——————————–
Yep! We used to go to Compton to buy my shoes at either Kenny or JC Penneys.
Robert Hall and Harris and Frank. Great clothiers.
Jeremy, are you serious? No pitcher would ever ask to be removed from the rotation…….
Perlo
They need a young talented 3B/SS with enough talent so that they can give A-Rod and Jeter time off as they age.
Nunez? Maybe.
Rich, it means putrid..and that’s just really harsh. I won’t even assume he’s declining; I’ll wait and see how he does next year before judging Derek.
I love Genius Joe’s quote in the post-game.
–
He doesn’t shellack his players to the media.
God forbid CC has a rough game (or even mediocre one) in any of his remaining starts. He basically has to stand on his head every start. Facing their 2 best pitchers the next 2 games too.
In case this was lost in the craziness of the game thread, Brackman had another great performance.
6 IP, 2 runs, 4 Ks, 2 BB, and only 2 hits.
We can’t even give CC a break by taking him out of games early because we have to save the pen for all the other pitchers……………..
I love Genius Joe’s quote in the post-game. “We need AJ to pitch well; we need to get to work; we’ll keep making adjustments”. Is he in deep denial, or does he think his audience is a bunch of idiots? And the press just goes along with him, nodding their proverbial heads.
————————————-
adjustments? how about a phucking change up and better lineup than Cervelli and Pena.
Joe treats these game like april 1st as oppose to Sept 1.
I will be really curious how short Joe’s leash will be when the yankees lead shrink to 1-2 games. it could happen after this weekend easily.
Giradi has his work cut for him down the back stretch….Getting healthy key players will help by leaps and bounds
Rich,
I couldn’t agree more about developing 3B/SS but am a bit skeptical about the current prospects at those positions. I think the farm is fairly rich in pitching and decent at catcher, but there aren’t alot a premium IF’s enroute.
BTW, while I think Montero could be a poor man’s Miguel Cabrera, I can’t see him as a catcher. Ultimately, he may have to go to RF in order to play.
Girardi said those things; he also said the rotation is going to be evaluated after the weekend. the implication was that no one’s spot is sacrosanct.
But, that being said, why does anyone ever expect Girardi to say anything of real substance in a post- or pre-game interview? He’s not saying to us something he hasn’t discussed with his team/coaches/GM first. The pre- and post-games are a necessity, but often a waste of time.
I almost think that Girardi may have left AJ in too long (way too long) so that if/when he takes him out of the rotation, AJ can’t say that he would have turned it around if given the chance.
Not that I would agree with giving up a game.
Then again, I could be wrong.
Rich,
I’m not sure that at $16.5 million per that Girardi can move A.J. to long-relief, although I would agree that he belongs there.
The unfortunate part about all of these huge multi-year deals is that none of these guys are movable without taking a huge bite of their salaries.
Guess who’s 4 and a half games back? Lol at SJ44, GB7. This season is booked for the Yanks, clearly. They will march to the World Series. This is what I was saying about not being too overconfident…
“I will be really curious how short Joe’s leash will be when the yankees lead shrink to 1-2 games. it could happen after this weekend easily.”
Joe can’t run Posada into the ground either and not have him healthy for the playoffs. He was going to sit one game this weekend anyway – such is the life of a 40 yr old catcher. It’s Cashman’s fault for not bringing up Moeller or someone else. Nunez/Pena are a wash. Need someone to play until A-Rod gets back. But the offense has to do better than a .740 OPS on the road.
Hard to win games with 1 reliable starter and inconsistent offense on the road. They have scored 2 runs or less in 3 of the 4 games so far on this trip. The lead will inevitably shrink… could be as small as a 2.5 game lead over BOS by the end of the weekend. Boston already swept TB on the road once this season, they are not a great team – very streaky, it can happen again. They are in for a hellish fight to the finish. Not much Joe can do. His tirade in KC didn’t do much – they had a nice homestand, but are now back to playing the same way they did on the last trip.
Tomorrow is the day for Girardi to have a players meeting. Best day to do it is the day your #1 is starting.
Wouldn’t be surprised if that was at least part of what the Jeter/Girardi pow wow in the dugout was about.
Perlo
As some have posted on this thread, that’s what he said was under consideration in the postgame.
Rich , what i don’t understand is that if a moron like me can see every team are sitting on AJ’s fastball , which had dropped by 1 mph this year and he can’t throw curves for the life of him. Why hasn’t anyone stress to that dumb mofo the importance of developing a change up which he does have. or just calling more of it.
WTF is Eiland on this program, for that matter , same with Hughes change up.
I’m not a big believer in meetings.
Make a move, like demoting Cervelli.
Rich,
I think it’s time to retire for the evening. Take care and good night.
I know what replacement level means and Jeter is headed for it soon, likely within the next two years.
He is in decline phase, that should be blatantly obvious. He’s been a great player and he’s a great ambassador for the game. I couldn’t be a bigger fan of the guy.
But the Yankees are going to sign him a to a contract that far exceeds his actual worth in terms of dollars and years. It’s only the years anyone should be worried about.
His primary value is that he’s been an outstanding hitter at a premium position. At his best, he’s an average defender. Now he’s awful.
The play on the ground ball Quentin hit in the first inning was just awful. I was listening to the Chicago feed and the announcers (who were heaping praise on Jeter) couldn’t believe how poorly he played the ball.
Like I said, it’s a moot point because Jeter will be signed to essentially whatever he asks for. He has value for the Yankees beyond on field play and in 2014 the right side of your infield will be a 80 years old.
“Make a move, like demoting Cervelli.”
Need to make a 40 man move to bring another catcher up. Might want to wait until after Sept. 1 to do that.
Cashmoney
Either they have tried and one or both can’t learn an effective one despite the ST promises, or Eiland is a bad teacher.
Or it could be both.
Yank1 August 27th, 2010 at 11:47 pm
“I will be really curious how short Joe’s leash will be when the yankees lead shrink to 1-2 games. it could happen after this weekend easily.”
Joe can’t run Posada into the ground either and not have him healthy for the playoffs.
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Posada could have play easily, but also the issue is CERVELLI SUX! i have been saying this for 2 month. this is almost sept 1 , it’s all hands on deck. i got news for you, the yankees are not guarantee to make anything. Let me get there first, before i worry about who is bang up and who is not.
pat
I’m not sure they can afford to catch Cervelli again.
Do they need Greg Golson?
A.J. Burnett is going to get worse not better. His fastball velocity is falling and with a lack of pitches and command of those pitches his numbers will only get worse.
# icebird753 August 27th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
Guess who’s 4 and a half games back? Lol at SJ44, GB7. This season is booked for the Yanks, clearly. They will march to the World Series. This is what I was saying about not being too overconfident…
———————-
Would you like to give me the exact quotes where SJ44, or GB7 ever said the Yankees would “march to the World Series”?
I would be curious to know if that were true.
They are confident, but they aren’t stupid. They know as well as anybody on here that things can change in a heartbeat in baseball. The Red Sox are far from out of it, but they are also not “breathing down” the Yankees backs.
Those two know more baseball, and have seen more games than most of us put together. They feel, with very good arguments, that the Yankees, even with all their problems and flaws, are still the class of the East and, probably, all of baseball.
They have yet to be proven wrong, so I will trust their judgment.
Rich, what else do you want Eiland to do? He told Phil in no uncertain terms that the change was necessary for him to succeed – and to win the job. He said in ST that Phil was very stubborn about not throwing that pitch. Eiland can’t pitch for him…………………. Phil’s biggest problem in terms of pitches is not the lack of a change (and he can throw a good one as he showed in ST), it’s the sad state of his curve
AJ spent all off-season working on his change; it’s not Eiland’s fault if AJ can’t or won’t throw it. I wonder if this is what’s at the root cause of AJ not having his curve. He normally finds it very early in ST, but it never showed up this year………..probably because he spent so much time on the change.
“That said, I believe in this team and in the front office and I know they are not just going to sit there and watch the wheels come off like the Mets do in these kind of situations.”
Definitely agree with that and that is basically what I was saying to Pepitone. This isn’t the Yankees first rodeo, nor is it the first time they’ve had to deal with issues in the rotation.
************
Anyone guess what these numbers represent? 0240083168
As to the change again for Phil, he has to stop saying things like how he realizes that it’s an important pitch for him now that teams have seen him more than once (he said this right before the break) if he’s not going to use it.
Actually, Eiland is part of the game planning between Posada and the pitcher. Coaches can tell Posada, throw down the change sign and make him throw it.
They can literally make him throw it. But why would htey do that when Hughes is very good as is?
Very unusual year for the ballclub
Normally, they have all their struggles early, have rotation/offense issues in the first half, fall a handful of games behind and then take over in the 2nd half and play .700 ball, fire on all cylinders, while the competition flounders.
This year, they came flying out of the gate, offense was on fire, everyone except Javy was excellent, and we had one of our best starts ever. Now, late in the season, we’re banged up and facing all these issues that are usually solved by now. The only year that this compares to in that regard is 2008… the issues never got solved and they didn’t make that big 2nd half run that they always did. Only difference is that our hot start has saved us and allowed us to struggle while still maintaining solid positioning in the standings (though that might not last long if they don’t get it together). Actually, it looks like Boston and us have switched roles. They were the team that started out terribly and now are playing their best ball. Usually, they flounder to the finish line.
First you said:
“…he’ll be below replacement level by next year.”
Now you say:
“I know what replacement level means and Jeter is headed for it soon, likely within the next two years.”
http://www.insidethebook.com/e.....ulate_war/
“Replacement is defined very specifically for my purposes: it’s the talent level for which you would pay the minimum salary on the open market, or for which you can obtain at minimal cost in a trade.”
__
Jeter has shown no indication that his true talent level would be commensurate with the minimum salary.
In a down year, he’s at 2.3 WAR.
Even if you regress him to 1 WAR to .5 WAR in 2012, he’s still worth far more than the league minimum.
Betsy
I want him to do what Leiter suggested.
Just having the change wouldn’t make Phil better than he is. He has to somehow find a way to be better with 2 strikes – that would be a good start.
He has to somehow find a way to be better with 2 strikes – that would be a good start.
–
Throwing a swing and miss pitch such as a change up in that count would be a start.
Rich, yes I know………but IMO Phil has bigger problems now that whether or not he has the change. AS to the change, first he’s got to adjust his mentality. Eiland forcing Phil to throw it when Phil doesn’t want to is not going to help – he’ll throw it without any conviction. I told you last night that I think Phil doesn’t really care about his breaking pitches – he just loves his FB and cutter. That’s a problem.
If Hughes curve was more consistent, or he could throw the change to both sides, it would improve everything. His fastball is already one of the better fastballs in the game by any pitcher, but if hitters could not sit on it they’d be so boned.
Times like this are when George is missed… he would have flown to Chi-Town and embarrassed the guys and told them to get it together.
Joe’s tirade wasn’t powerful enough. It only provided a short-term boost, but they have now gone back to their bad play.
Wish George was here to see this and make the appropriate speech.
Jerkface, I’m not saying he shouldn’t develop a change..but the change is not a cure all. If he would make better pitches with 2 strikes, no matter the type of pitch, that would help. He has to fix his curve first, IMO. Then again, maybe he’s just a guy that doesn’t have the feel for breaking pitches.
Jerkface, therein lies the rub. Everyone is so sure that it’s just a matter of time, or it’s just obvious, that Phil will magically improve his breaking pitches. Why? His curve has deserted him for no apparent reason and he is too afraid to throw a change.
Anyway, I predict that when I come on this board this morning I will see some very unpleasant posts directed at me, lol.
Being able to throw an offspeed pitch for a swinging strike is a way to be better with two strikes.
Hughes has an excellent fastball, better than I certainly ever thought it would be, but he hasn’t mastered the curve and hasn’t developed his changeup. Keep challenging hitters with fastballs, and they’ll get crushed.
Jerkface, therein lies the rub. Everyone is so sure that it’s just a matter of time, or it’s just obvious, that Phil will magically improve his breaking pitches. Why? His curve has deserted him for no apparent reason and he is too afraid to throw a change.
—
Because at one point in time he had a solid average change capable of drawing swings and misses and which he could throw for strikes, and at a different time he had a plus curve ball.
He’s also had a plus slider. And right now throws an above average cutter and a plus fastball.
Hughes picked up a plus cutter in less than a season’s worth of development.
Basically, Hughes can pick things up quickly. He learned a plus curve in less than a season after working with Nardi. Its all about letting him work it out.
I don’t know why you think he WOULDN’T improve.
Anyone guess what these numbers represent? 0240083168
Those numbers represent ERs in AJ’s last 10 starts.
0, 2, 4, 0, 0, 8, 3, 1, 6, 8
0, 2, 4, 0, 0. Hard to say this is a pitcher who is a bust and doesn’t belong in a rotation.
8, 3, 1, 6, 8. Hard to say this is a pitcher you want in your starting rotation, save for the one good game.
Whatever the problem is, AJ and Eiland have to figure it out. He’s too good a pitcher to be this bad.
I seriously don’t think you are going to see AJ lose his spot in the rotation, even if he misses a start. I doubt that’s going to happen also. Unless he’s playing hurt, at which point he’ll go on the DL
Jerkface, because as to the change, I don’t think he wants to throw it ……….I think he paid lip service in the off-season. He should have thrown it earlier in the season when he was feeling good about it.
As to the curve, it’s regressed big time- and I can’t figure out why. Is he suddenly going to figure it out? I’m not saying he won’t, but it won’t surprise me if he doesn’t.
Phillip Hughes is back on the dial
Betsy-
I understand that Phil hasn’t been too encouraging lately, but I think we need to realize that he’s a kid just finishing his first full season starting. He didn’t forget how to pitch from since the allstar break, more than likely, he’s getting fatigued. Hughes still gets to two strike counts often, he just can’t finish the hitters off. I would say that this is either a result of fatigue, and less action on both his fastball and curveball, or just a matter of learning HOW to prevent batters from consistently fouling off his pitches. Off all the problems the Yankees have, Hughes is relatively minor. I will admit that because of the disappointing pitching staff, however, the problem is exacerbated. It’s not entirely fair to the kid though.
I probably should give this Hughes talk a rest because I’m going to be blamed for polluting the blog…………
# trisha – true pinstriped blue August 28th, 2010 at 12:12 am
Anyone guess what these numbers represent? 0240083168
Those numbers represent ERs in AJ’s last 10 starts.
0, 2, 4, 0, 0, 8, 3, 1, 6, 8
0, 2, 4, 0, 0. Hard to say this is a pitcher who is a bust and doesn’t belong in a rotation.
8, 3, 1, 6, 8. Hard to say this is a pitcher you want in your starting rotation, save for the one good game.
Whatever the problem is, AJ and Eiland have to figure it out. He’s too good a pitcher to be this bad.
I seriously don’t think you are going to see AJ lose his spot in the rotation, even if he misses a start. I doubt that’s going to happen also. Unless he’s playing hurt, at which point he’ll go on the DL
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Trisha-
He’s been a .500 pitcher for most of his career, save the big year that earned him the Yankee contract. You can say that he’s too good of a pitcher to be pitching this way, but it’s kinda difficult to believe because this is what he’s been throughout his career. Many on this board have pointed out the same thing: Burnett is either brilliant or terrible, there isn’t often any in between. Either way, he’s not living up to the contract he was given.
IIOO, at this point, unfortunately – Phil is the least of the Yankees’ problems. It sucks that the weight of the rotation has to come down squarely (the part that CC isn’t carrying) on him…………
I’m not saying he won’t, but it won’t surprise me if he doesn’t.
–
Why? Its certainly surprising that he’s lost it! For him to keep losing it, or not try something else would be surprising. You’ve taken such a dour approach to Hughes at this point its a little bewildering. I think Hughes would throw anything if he thought it’d be good, but he just hasn’t had much of a chance to get with the change. He obviously liked it enough in 07 to throw 2 in a row to MARK TEIXEIRA. One of the best hitters in the game.
But its his fourth pitch right now, and 4th pitches just don’t get thrown.
His 4th pitch in 08 was his slider and he threw it when he was behind in the count and needed a strike because he came in faster than curve with a little bit of break and slower than his fastball but it was mostly garbage.
So he rarely threw it.
He just hasn’t trusted his change yet. Maybe he never will, but Eiland and the Yankees will move on to a new pitch. Maybe they are thinking, “If he can’t get a change down by 2011 then we’ll let him go to a more risky pitch” and we might see a 2012 Hughes who is a fastball / split Roger Clemens clone.
Burnett’s April-May / June / July / August have alternated good , terrible, good, more terrible. So hopefully this means Sept is GOOD, but that also means October is bad!
# Betsy August 28th, 2010 at 12:15 am
IIOO, at this point, unfortunately – Phil is the least of the Yankees’ problems. It sucks that the weight of the rotation has to come down squarely (the part that CC isn’t carrying) on him…………
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Exactly. I think if our rotation has turned out the way we expected, we’d be celebrating the year Phil has had and chalking up his struggles since the break to growing pains or fatigue. At his age, there’s no reason not to expect further improvement and consistency. I am encouraged by what he’s done this year, regardless of my disappointment with him recently. Like you said, it’s unfortunate that he’s in the position that he can’t grow into his role as was expected at the start of the year. The injuries to Pettitte/Vasquez and the ineptitude of Burnett have really put the remaining pitchers in a tough spot. CC has had a wonderful year and is in the position where he NEEDS to win every game from here on out. Not the ideal situation for a pitching staff to be sure.
I thought Phil had dumped the slider because the Yankees were concerned about the strain it would place on his arm.
You’re right, the change will always be his fourth best pitch; so, why the consternation that he doesn’t throw it ? In any case, 2007 was a long time ago. Maybe those were all the changes he threw in that game – maybe had he continued to start he would still have rarely thrown it; I just don’t know.
I’d prefer that they avoid the splitter………….
He lost the curve, but until they figure out why he did, isn’t it hard to figure out how to bring it back?
You’re right, the change will always be his fourth best pitch;
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Thats not true, if he gets a very good one and starts striking hitters out on it, it might improve and overtake whatever other pitches he is using.
He threw 10% change ups in that 07 start. and 7% on the year.
IIOO, this board has mostly celebrated Phil, but most other boards and blogs are pretty disappointed in him………..
Jerkface, but you just said that it’s his 4th pitch now and 4th pitches don’t get thrown……………That’s true – if you are a vet. If you are a youngster, how do you improve the pitch except by throwing it?
So Phil threw his change 7% of the time in 2007? Maybe it’s because it was easier on him given his leg injuries? I don’t think he really trusted his legs……..or his FB
Jerkface August 28th, 2010 at 12:18 am
Burnett’s April-May / June / July / August have alternated good , terrible, good, more terrible. So hopefully this means Sept is GOOD, but that also means October is bad!
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it’s all about his control Jerk, also he needs to learn a third pitch in the worst way .
right now , it’s reasonably assume any good fb hitting lineup with decent plate discipline will slaughter Burnett.
and when it comes down to it , the jekyll and hyde behavior will never stop, he is simply inconsistent thus mediocre.
I have advocated free Nova movement, it might be time to FREE PHELPS!
Hughes will eventually implement his change next season simply to neutralize lefthand hitters when he’s ahead in the count……It’ll be his breaking ball that will be showcased next….This season it’s going to be heaters as he dividends the zone into 1/4′s…..After that, they’ll incorporate the next phase of development at the Major League level…….In about 2 years he’ll be a very deadly and accomplished pitcher…..One must master one pitch at a time…..And we Yankee fans must pratice some patience
IIOO, the point I was trying to make by that comment was that I don’t think fans’ evaluation of Phil have anything to do with the status of the rotation.
how do you improve the pitch except by throwing it?
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Bullpens and side sessions. And a catcher man enough to call it in game.
Betsy August 28th, 2010 at 12:23 am
IIOO, this board has mostly celebrated Phil, but most other boards and blogs are pretty disappointed in him……….
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Well like I said, I’m not pleased with his performance since the break, but I’m also realistic about what it means for his development as a pitcher. I’ve discussed Hughes over at RAB and, while there are some complete psychopaths when it comes to expectations, many of the posters understand that ups and downs are to be expected with young pitchers. Burnett on the other hand, is now a veteran and the roller coaster ride is no longer understandable.
Pat M, you really think that’s how the Yankees are trying to develop Phil? That seems like an odd thing……..and dangerous. That means they are assuming he can get MLB hitters out with one or two pitches……….What happens if he was getting his doors blown off?
IIOO, I don’t go over there much. I do post at NYYFans, but their Phil thread is bringing me down and I’m going to try and avoid it. As negative as I am, I’m glad folks are more positive over here.
I agree about AJ………………..
Betsy August 28th, 2010 at 12:26 am
IIOO, the point I was trying to make by that comment was that I don’t think fans’ evaluation of Phil have anything to do with the status of the rotation
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You don’t think that if the rest of the rotation was clicking on all cylinders that fans would be more apt to take Hughes’ struggles in stride? If we were up 10 games on both Boston and Tampa, don’t you think that fans would be a little more reasonable about a loss like tonight? People overreact in situations they seem dire. I can’t help but believe that if Vasquez, Pettitte, and Burnett were all healthy and effective that fans would be more understanding of the struggles of a 24 year old kid.
What happens if he was getting his doors blown off?
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A pitcher who is going to get his doors blown off throwing 2 pitches as a starter will be in the bullpen before they make it to the majors. Hughes made it to the majors as a 2 pitch pitcher.
Hughes is the second best pitcher in the rotation at the moment, in his first full season as a starter. I think plenty of criticism can be aimed elsewhere.
Cash-
You’re insane if you think Burnett is about to learn another pitch at this point and be successful at doing so. If he can’t throw the pitches he’s been utilizing since the beginning of his career for strikes, what makes you think this new pitch is going to be some revelation? He is who he is. To me, the Burnett signing was one of Cashman’s most unfortunate moves.
From what Girardi was saying in the post game it sounded like they will skip AJ’s next start. I don’t know if it will help but I guess at this point it can’t hurt to try. They have to get him on track for this team to have a chance.
IIOIIOIIO August 28th, 2010 at 12:32 am
Cash-
You’re insane if you think Burnett is about to learn another pitch at this point and be successful at doing so. If he can’t throw the pitches he’s been utilizing since the beginning of his career for strikes, what makes you think this new pitch is going to be some revelation? He is who he is. To me, the Burnett signing was one of Cashman’s most unfortunate moves.
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I think kei igawa rather also rather unfortunate.
I don’t know if Burnett is capable of learning anything, he could possibly be dumbest mofo judging by his post game babbles.
I , however, have seen him throwing a change up on a occasion. would greatly advocate the usage of that pitch more and are having difficulty in comprehending why that is not the case after Burnett’s head being bashed on the wall time and time again with his sitting duck FBS.
IIOIIOIIO, the point I am trying to make is that he pitched 3 games of shutout innings in the last 10 games and 6 of the 10 were quality start numbers.
In 11 years, AJ had a winning record 7 of those years. He’s been better than a .500 pitcher.
The way he has pitched lately is extremely frustrating. But unless I’m convinced that he is either pitching hurt or forgot how to pitch 2 starts ago, then he needs to find his way back to brilliance.
I believe he will.
IIOO, maybe many fans would, but fans that have been expecting Phil to develop into an ace down the line are hoping that he would have shown more this year than whatever his ERA + is…………….
Jerkface, that’s a good point. Do you agree with Pat? If that’s what the Yankees are doing, I’m not sure I agree with them……….but I really don’t think that’s the case
# trisha – true pinstriped blue August 28th, 2010 at 12:36 am
IIOIIOIIO, the point I am trying to make is that he pitched 3 games of shutout innings in the last 10 games and 6 of the 10 were quality start numbers.
In 11 years, AJ had a winning record 7 of those years. He’s been better than a .500 pitcher.
The way he has pitched lately is extremely frustrating. But unless I’m convinced that he is either pitching hurt or forgot how to pitch 2 starts ago, then he needs to find his way back to brilliance.
I believe he will.
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This is a little misleading. He’s 13 games over .500 for his career and he was 18-10 in 2008, the year before he arrived. That means that not including his 2008 campaign he is 91-86 with about a 4.00 ERA. He’s been worse than usual this year, but not THAT much worse.
Cashmoney August 28th, 2010 at 12:36 am
IIOIIOIIO August 28th, 2010 at 12:32 am
Cash-
You’re insane if you think Burnett is about to learn another pitch at this point and be successful at doing so. If he can’t throw the pitches he’s been utilizing since the beginning of his career for strikes, what makes you think this new pitch is going to be some revelation? He is who he is. To me, the Burnett signing was one of Cashman’s most unfortunate moves.
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I think kei igawa rather also rather unfortunate.
I don’t know if Burnett is capable of learning anything, he could possibly be dumbest mofo judging by his post game babbles.
I , however, have seen him throwing a change up on a occasion. would greatly advocate the usage of that pitch more and are having difficulty in comprehending why that is not the case after Burnett’s head being bashed on the wall time and time again with his sitting duck FBS
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I agree, I wouldn’t be against him at least trying to throw the changeup. My only point is that he sure doesn’t seem capable of changing his approach when necessary.
I agree, I wouldn’t be against him at least trying to throw the changeup. My only point is that he sure doesn’t seem capable of changing his approach when necessary.
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He has never been a pitcher and he will never be at this point.
But age and attrition has diminish his stuff to the point where we are now. I think we need to throw out his past trends at this point and simply ask yourself this question.
can a guy with one pitch (93-94) and erratic control succeed against any good hitting team from this point forward….
My conclusion is , no likely, but we will have to see.