Rotation options limited for Yankees
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Aug 28, 2010 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
If the Yankees don’t want A.J. Burnett to make his next start, what’s the best immediate option?
Andy Pettitte is out for another two weeks or so, Ivan Nova is already up from Triple-A and Dustin Moseley is already converted from his mid-season work as a reliever. The only extra starting pitchers on the 40-man — Andrew Brackman and Hector Noesi — have a total of one Triple-A start between them.
The options are pretty limited.
Javier Vazquez
Bumped from the rotation just last week, his best outing of the month was in relief of Phil Hughes on Wednesday night when Vazquez went 4.1 scoreless innings. Having him skip a start earlier this season got him turned around.
Sergio Mitre
Terrific in relief of Burnett last night, he’s topped 50 pitches in each of his past two appearances, suggesting he could go close to 70 in a start that would come in September when the roster is expanded. He has a 2.45 ERA as a reliever this season, but — in a three-game sample — a 5.93 as a starter.
Chad Gaudin
If he could repeat last season’s down-the-stretch performance, he could be a significant help. Before a rocky outing on Tuesday, he had a 1.13 ERA this month. Hasn’t thrown more than 46 pitches in a game since July 17.
Waiver claim/trade
Ted Lilly is reportedly on waivers right now. His Dodgers teammate Hiroki Kuroda was placed on waivers a few days ago. Earlier this week, Brian Cashman told Wally Matthews he had no interest in going outside the organization for pitching help. Is it possible that’s changed based on the past two games?
First off, I wouldn’t believe a thing Cashman says about trade opportunities.
SJ44 August 28th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
“You can’t have players doing it and MLB is correct in launching an investigation”
Agreed. Like AJ’s pitching.. enough is enough as far as cheating goes. I only question the timing of the investigation being made public. The alleged infractions took place over a year ago. MLB didnt start the investigation just yesterday. The timing of the leak is curious to say the least.
If you can get a Kuroda or Lilly from the outside, you have to do it.
If you can’t, you gotta think short term, as in start to start, instead of long term right now.
Mitre starts for Burnett the next go ’round. He stays in the rotation if he pitches well. If he doesn’t, you re-evaluate.
If Nova pitches acceptably tomorrow, he gets another start. If he doesn’t, Vazquez replaces him and you see how it goes.
Is it the optimum situation to have 40% of your rotation, and 27 million dollars in two guys (AJ and Javy) that you literally have to go batter to batter from the first hitter of the game?
Of course not.
However, this isn’t about feelings at this point in the season. Its about winning games and you owe it to the ENTIRE team to put the best team out there to win each night.
That also goes for the catchers position.
Cervelli is as much of a disaster, both offensively and defensively, as Burnett is right now.
Moeller should be up here and Jorge needs to catch 5 days a week down the stretch.
I don’t believe for a second that Cashman is not interested in starting pitching.
He’s got 3 days left to acquire someone who can be eligible for the post season.
I just think that no teams in baseball will do the Yankees any kind of favor here.
I also think starting pitching is so coveted that nothing, especially a pitcher like Lilly, is going to slip to the Yankees.
The only shot, I think, Cashman has was to claim a pitcher with a bad contract and then get the contract dumped on the Yankees. We’re talking Zambrano/Zito type deals here.
I don’t see Cashman ever doing something like that so the chances of us finding something useful to bolster a shaky rotation is slim.
I’m fine with skipping AJ a turn, but I also think that Javy is not a viable replacement. He had one decent relief appearance. That hardly makes up for the starts he made of late.
Can’t believe the rotation fell apart like this. You can blame Andy on age I guess, but Javy and AJ are still in their prime years. What a mess.
The only saving grace is that I always think the guy who is the least likely to help in the post season is usually the guy that comes up the biggest. Maybe AJ and Javy get to write a fairytale ending on this nightmare of a season for them both.
No way any of these pitchers are going to fall to the Yankees……….I would not put Javy back in the rotation yet based on 1 good outing in relief. Mitre? Maybe, but then who’s our long man? Gaudin? We’d still need another one.
Brian (small market) Cashman continues to give the Steinbrenners all the ammunition they need to get rid of him. His statement about not going out of the organization to get pitching help is beyond assinine.
This coattail genus has to go & Brian take the Ming Vase better known as Nick Johnson with you.
Moeller? Absolutely bring him up – I’ve been saying that for weeks; I don’t see that happening though. I think Joe believes Cervelli is a part of this team now…………we’ll see.
It’s ridiculous that the rotation has come to this. Cash has no luck with pitchers he signs – outside of CC, who was a sure thing anyway. Javy could not have been expected to lose his stuff completely and AJ is worse even than those who didn’t want to sign him thought. I now start to wonder if Cliff Lee would just implode upon signing here……..
On September 1, the rosters expand. You will have plenty of options for guys in long relief.
Long relief isn’t a priority. Putting a starting pitcher out there that gives you a chance to win is more important.
Kudoda’s contract this is year is $15.5mil. Thaty could preclude a lot of teams from claiming him. He’s nothing special, but he’s a lot better than AJ or Javier at this point.
Wednesday is telling for who is called up. Clearly, Moeller should be one as should another pitcher or 2.
With the meldowns of Vazquez and Burnett, added pressure is not what the bullpen needs seeing it has been an upside of the team. Albaladejo can help take bullpen innings if Mitre becomes a starter.
Drive 4-6
I agree, I think it is pretty fishy that they are starting this investigation in the week that Nova made his first start.
Can MLB suspend Nova?
It’s sad the current regular catcher is cisco, blame Posada.
Now, look back to that 4 game series vs. Sux in YS, are there anyone still think 2-2 split was a “victory” for Yanks? LOL
Stop mortgaging the future and do the best they can with what they have.
Ted Lilly would plug a hole……Dodgers are testing the waters by placing players on the waiver wire, however if they win again tonight they may just pull guys back…….Bombers are going to have to ride this AJ / Javy thing out and hope for the best………The sting of the failed Cliff Lee deal stings just a little more today than it did 4 weeks ago……Bombers will be fine
Burnett has 3 years $49.5 million left after this season.
Derek Lowe has 2 years $30 million left on his contract.
The Braves call you in the offseason and offer Lowe for Burnett straight up. What do you do?
No, LGY.
Rich, who’s mortgaging the future?
Now, look back to that 4 game series vs. Sux in YS, are there anyone still think 2-2 split was a “victory” for Yanks? LOL
————————————————-
I do. Anything less than a sweep for the Sox and it was a victory for the Yankees. Still is.
Betsy
How else are they getting Kuroda or Lilly. For cash?
That’s true………….oh then forget it, but we’ll have to deal with the consequences if this rotation can not hold up (and it can’t).
You can’t blame posada for cervelli making as many starts as he does. He is an old catcher and they should have anticipated that he won’t be as resilient as he used to be. Blame the yankees for not having any other catchers on the 40 man that can come in and take over. Next year and in subsequent years they have catching depth but for now they are stuck with what they’ve got. Maybe we can get navarro from the Rays. He lost his spot on the team to a rookie in jaso.(Sorry for the Tampa reference, but when you live here news about the rays is everywhere)
Earlier this month I posted that the Yankees would have a mediocre month of August…and that is exactly what is happening. In four days, the month of September will be here…Lance Berkman, Alex Rodriguez, Alfredo Aceves will come off of the DL…rosters will expand to 40, bringing Jonathan Albaladejo, Chad Moeller, Colin Curtis, Greg Golson and others to the major league roster. This will allow Girardi to make more moves and give players a rest during blowouts.
I predict that the month of September will be better for the Yanks.
Rich,
They can possibly get Kuroda as a straight waiver dump/claim.
The problem is the Dodgers are still in the wild card so I don’t seem them dropping assets.
No way we get Lilly.
” Aroldis Chapman tonight hit 105 mph and “sat at” 103, with a 90-91 slider. Scout: “best fastball I have ever witnessed” #reds ”
http://twitter.com/ed_price/status/22318304520
‘Earlier this month I posted that the Yankees would have a mediocre month of August”
An AL East worst 13-14 over the last 27 games.
This pitching rotation situation is giving me 2008 flashbacks…
Absolute Joke Burnett strikes again.
‘Earlier this month I posted that the Yankees would have a mediocre month of August”
An AL East worst 13-14 over the last 27 games.
================================================
And everyone thought I was nuts for posting that they wouldn’t do too well in August.
Jacksquat:
So long as there is a Sabathia in the rotation, the 2008 comparison is unfair.
G. Love
Kuroda’s contract, albeit $13m pro-rated, expires after this season. That means there is a little more than $2m remaining. I realize that McCourt is going through a nasty, probably asset-hiding divorce, but that amount of money should make a player with a 108 ERA+ fairly marketable should the Dodgers choose to move him.
Bill D August 28th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Jacksquat:
So long as there is a Sabathia in the rotation, the 2008 comparison is unfair.
—
Well, remember Mussina was 20-9 with a 3.37 ERA in 2008. Obviously Mussina was not quite a Sabbathia, but I was referring to all the plugging of holes in the rotation. Luckily the plugs are working a little better. At least it isn’t Rasner for 20 starts and Ponson for 15.
JS:
Fair enough. Credit to the organization for having the guys to plug those holes to some degree. The Pettitte thing has really hurt them.
Hate to say what I’m thinking: Is it time to panic?
The club has been resistant from losing streaks of note…..They have no lost more than 3 games straight…….They’ll ride the Storms of August and once they get back to full strength, they’ll be tough come October
It’s never time to panic.
Rich,
The problem with the rest of AJ’s contract, is what is there to suggest he will be any better next year or really the next 3 years?
The only thing I am really hoping right now is that maybe the amount of innings he threw in 2008 and 2009 are affecting him.
Don:
5 games up in the AILC for a playoff spot is no time to panic. Certainly the unsteadiness in the rotation and Pettitte’s health are reasons for concern, but not panic.
Sorry for the typo…..Have not lost more than 3 games in a row…….Somewhere GB is smiling
August has been a disaster for the Yankees. Not only are they losing, and allowing teams to catch them in the standings, but, the meat of the batting order is slumping as one. 1 – 5 in the batting order is basically doing nothing. No one is stepping up at this point, and if the slid continues for one more series, it could be their season. In September the schedule gets very tough, and unless they collectively turn things around, it could wind up being the season everyone will want to forget. I love the Yankees, and hope they can turn it around, but, to simply state they are tied for the best record in baseball etc., and ignor the facts as they are is like sticking your head in the sand.
LGY
It’s a sunk cost. I would either put him in the pen or buy him out. I still think he could be a good reliever because he could use max effort for every pitch, and he wouldn’t even have to throw many curves.
Alternatively, if I was the Phillies, and the Yankees would eat most of the contract, I would trade for him, because the only person on Earth who has a shot of fixing AJ is Halladay.
Mitre and Gaudin are not good options. They may give you one or two good starts but that’s all. Expecting them to step into the rotation and contribute is not realistic. The Yankees are kidding themselves if they think that will happen. They NEED a starter from the outside.
And another thing: I am not a Jeter basher but it might be time to move him down in the order. He has an OPS+ of 98 and we are heading into September. Hes basically an automatic out. Gardner and Swisher should be at the top of the lineup at this juncture.
Except for a handful of guys, this team collectively has been playing poor baseball for over a month. The only reason they are tied for the best record in baseball is because of an unusually hot start to the season. Anyone who is not concerned, is either not watching, or is just plain stupid.
If Andy can’t come back healthy and effective, they have no chance.
Pat M, they also haven’t put together a winning streak of note……..
You aren’t allowed to buy out contracts.
It’s not allowable under the CBA.
A buyout is not an option.
I’m taking bets that The Yanks will be in the postseason….Bottom line…….
“You aren’t allowed to buy out contracts.”
It’s tantamount to DFA’ing him. No team picks up his contract. He gets paid and becomes a FA.
It’s an option.
It’s no option and it won’t happen.
The Yankees aren’t eating 49 million dollars on this contract.
What’s gotten lost in the poor performance by Burnett last night is that the offense continues to sputter. Only 2 runs off another mediocre starter.
Girardi has openly recognized that he’s got some pitching problems. I haven’t seen anyone ask him about the train wreck known as Cervelli. This guy fell off a cliff and the Yankees are taking a blind eye to it.
Well to be fair, the Rays aren’t setting the world on fire either – they can’t seem to put any ground between them and the Yanks. Both teams are allowing the Sox to hang around.
“What’s gotten lost in the poor performance by Burnett last night is that the offense continues to sputter. Only 2 runs off another mediocre starter.”
He’s mediocre against everyone else except us apparently.
Laura, I would call up Moeller, but I think Joe is going to stick with Cervelli as well………perhaps because he sees Cervelli as a real part of the team and not a kid that has to prove himself. He’s awful.
The team that picks him up under your plan pays him the ML minimum and the Yankees pay him 16 million dollars per year to pitch for someone else.
That’s the worst thing the Yankees can do which is why they won’t do it.
A lot of things have to go “right” to win a world series, and this team has an aweful lot of things going “wrong”.
“It’s no option and it won’t happen.
The Yankees aren’t eating 49 million dollars on this contract”
That means it is an option but they would choose not to exercise it.
Good, then he can suck for three more years.
If he sucks for another year, it will happen.
Burnett is going nowhere.
They have the offseason and spring training to try to fix him.
The problem is right now there is no time for anything but minor adjustments which apparently they can’t find.
That’s why it’s referred to as a Pennant Race…….I’m hoping that Burnett skips a turn, clears his head and get on a roll…….The wheels are a little wobbly right now but they haven’t come of the cart & they’re not going to…….
This will be a real pennant race because the Yankes are going to face their main foes. I like that in principal….it’s a good thing. They will either prove themselves superior or inferior to the Rays (Sox) based on head to head matchups……..the way it should be.
Rich,
If it is a sunk cost, why wouldn’t you want to knock off $20 million and trade him for Lowe?
“They have the offseason and spring training to try to fix him.”
The guy has been pitching like this his entire career. He can’t be fixed; this is who he is. He was very good in the SEA game, but the Yankees didn’t score any runs for him.
Girardi has to take some of the blame as well. AJ needs to be on a very short leash. The first sign of trouble, you have to yank him before the game gets out of hand. Instead, he consistently leaves him in there to give up 7 or more runs. The game is out of hand, the hitters have given up and it’s one for the loss column.
Here is another scary prospect: Hughes coming out of the rotation because he reaches his innings cap. How do the Yankees do this without making their rotation even weaker than it already is? I am all for preserving Hughes’ arm and not abusing him but if we want to make an impact in October he cannot be in the bullpen.
LGY,
Because Derek Lowe is throwing up ERA+ of 88 and 93 in the NL East. You think that is going to do anything but continue to go down if you move him to the AL East? Who cares if he only has two years left on his deal? Hes going to be just as bad as Burnett.
LGY
Because of their age difference, I think AJ is more likely to be better in 2011.
Your proposal isn’t unreasonable, but I wouldn’t do it.
I also think that the Yankees need another pitching coach. Maybe Eiland is great, but he doesn’t seem to be reaching a lot of guys, maybe through no fault of his own.
Hes going to be just as bad as Burnett.
———————————————-
Not necessarily. Burnett is actually one of the worst starters in baseball this year. He has been worse than replacement level since May 9th as said in the article CB linked this morning.
And if here were as bad as Burnett then he will be as bad for 20 million less. Not saying I would do it, but I don’t think it is clear cut.
How about that sputtering offense. Anyone concerned about that? Any pitcher that throws junk becomes an All Star. They simply refuse to wait on a pitch. It’s gotten to the point that I go over under 2 for Teix’s popups, that Posada will strike out on a pitch down and in and so forth. Baseball is all about adjustments, duh. It was to the point that ones skips innings two through six, now it’s through seven. How many times is it in the seventh and they’ve managed a couple of hits?
From RAB
Mark Teixeira managed to make five outs on six total pitches in his first three trips to the plate in Toronto, killing potential rallies by clanking into a pair of double plays.
I hope they start playing soon because right now it’s boring, embarassing, insert deprecating comments here, etc.
Garcia with an ERA of 5 and they managed one manufactured run, I discount the wind blown homer.
I don’t think AJ has been this bad in his career; he’s had a fine career – not great, but good. This year he’s been horrendous.
It’s not Eiland’s fault that Javy has absolutely no stuff and no one can reach AJ -that’s an impossible task. Andy was having the best year of his career and CC’s been great.
I can’t get on the offense for last night.
When your pitcher puts you in a hole like Burnett did, it completely changes the game and the outlook these players have when they go up to the plate.
Nothing is ever Eiland’s fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tex is a very good player – he’s not great.
I’d do it just because I don’t think Burnett is fixable. At age 34, with diminishing velocity, is he really going to come back strong next year? It’s not like he is going to reinvent himself like Mussina did… he is still going to be a 2-pitch pitcher, except with worse velocity.
I don’t expect much from Lowe either, but I’d do it just to get the shorter contract. Again, Burnett has been one of the worst pitchers in baseball after his hot April. In his last 20 starts, he has given up 6 runs or more in 10 of them (or in half of his starts).
i said last winter that they should keep molina and have cervelli at triple a as a back up.
the reason being that if posada went down they’d have cervelli and molina to divide the time.
molina and cervelli both get exposed if they play too much.
it was a simple cheap solution to have molina there as the back up and cervelli at triple a.
there was no down side to keeping molina.
it worked last year, so why make a change? to save a few dollars?
it made no sense to me then and doesn’t now.
had the yankees kept molina chances are he’d be catching instead of a tired and exposed cervelli right now.
Geez Rich, did I run over your dog?
Ah, well. I’ll be at the game tonight, hope the outcome is better than Friday’s.
Here’s one from the archives to cheer us up. If today were July 22, 1995, our pitching coach would be our stopper, and we’d be looking forward to Melido Perez rejoining the rotation in a few days.
http://www.nydailynews.com/arc.....hes_y.html
———
AN EILAND BREEZE REFRESHES YANKS
By JOHN HARPER
Saturday, July 22th 1995, 1:13AM
How dramatically did the week change for the Yankees? Three nights after a $5-million pitcher flipped off the fans on his way to an early shower, a 29-year old journeyman earned his first major-league win in four years.
Yes, Dave Eiland played the role of the anti-McDowell last night, an underdog for whom fans could enjoy rooting. He wasn’t necessarily the star of the Yankees’ 8-3 win over the Rangers, but he was surely the happiest man at the Stadium.
He was also a symbol of the Yankees’ rise from the dead. Buried under an avalanche of turmoil and that embarrassing doubleheader loss to the White Sox, the Yanks have rebounded with three straight wins and renewed hope that they can put this season in order.
Even Eiland understood that. As important as this night was to him, winning for the first time in the big leagues since 1991, he felt good that he was able to help the cause.
“There has been a lot of stuff flying around here,” Eiland said, referring to the various controversies. “Hopefully this will help put an end to some of the garbage.”
Maybe it’s the start of something big as well. For the second straight night the Yankees came up with the kind of timely hitting they have been missing so often this season. That, some outstanding defense by Gerald Williams and one huge late-inning out from John Wetteland added up to a nice win.
After all, the Yankees were no-hit for four innings by Kenny Rogers, then erupted for four runs in the fifth, knocking the lefthander out of the game and taking a 4-1 lead.
By then Eiland, the 11th starter the Yankees have used this season, had given Buck Showalter exactly what he had hoped for.
Eiland, who was 5-16 with a 5.16 ERA between 1988 and ’91 for the Yanks, hadn’t pitched at all in the big leagues since 1993, when he was with the Padres. He had spent the last two seasons in Triple A for the Yankees he was 8-7 with a 3.14 ERA this season.
Far from overpowering, Eiland changed speeds effectively enough to baffle the Rangers for five innings, allowing one run. He got some help from Williams, who made a strong throw from left to nail Benji Gil trying for a double in the third inning, a play that limited the Rangers to just one run in the inning.
Then Williams made perhaps the key play of the game in the sixth. With runners on first and third and no outs, he made a diving grab of Ivan Rodriguez’ liner to cut short a rally. Replays showed Williams actually trapped the ball, but he got the call from second-base umpire Jim Evans and it proved critical.
Finally, with the Yankees clinging to a 4-3 lead in the eighth, Wetteland was summoned to face slugger Juan Gonzalez with two outs and the tying run at second. Throwing five sliders in a six-pitch duel, Wetteland won the battle when Gonzalez reached for a slider off the plate and grounded to short.
The Yankees promptly scored four more runs in the eighth to break it open, and in the space of three days, change their outlook entirely.
Melido OK: Melido Perez yesterday pronounced himself fit to rejoin the rotation, saying, “I don’t feel pain in my shoulder anymore. I’ve had pain all along since my surgery (after ’93 season), but now I don’t have pain the last couple of weeks. I just hope it doesn’t come back again.” Perez will start Monday.
“Andy was having the best year of his career and CC’s been great.”
A CY caliber pitcher pitches well a 15 year pro pitches well, and Eiland deserves credit. Sweet.
The test is to development young pitchers and make lesser pitchers all they can b.
Bo knows August 28th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
How about that sputtering offense. Anyone concerned about that? Any pitcher that throws junk becomes an All Star. They simply refuse to wait on a pitch. It’s gotten to the point that I go over under 2 for Teix’s popups, that Posada will strike out on a pitch down and in and so forth. Baseball is all about adjustments, duh. It was to the point that ones skips innings two through six, now it’s through seven. How many times is it in the seventh and they’ve managed a couple of hits?
From RAB
Mark Teixeira managed to make five outs on six total pitches in his first three trips to the plate in Toronto, killing potential rallies by clanking into a pair of double plays.
I hope they start playing soon because right now it’s boring, embarassing, insert deprecating comments here, etc.
Garcia with an ERA of 5 and they managed one manufactured run, I discount the wind blown homer.
—
Tex has been great lately. Everyone has bad games.
Posada is good overall as well.
When Arod and Posada are in the lineup, the offense is actually pretty good.
waka flocka August 28th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
Here is another scary prospect: Hughes coming out of the rotation because he reaches his innings cap.
Here’s an even scarier prospect. Hughes continues to pitch to an ERA over 5 like he has since Memorial Day. It’s asking a lot of the kid, but when he does pitch he needs to go out there like he’s the #2 man in the rotation. Because that’s what he is now.
Molina wasn’t so hot last year if I recall. He couldn’t hit and I remember people mentioning that his D had slipped. Cash had to save $$ where he could – he only had $2 million to fill the holes. So, the budget was the budget and that’s probably why Molina didn’t come back.
about Burnett as bad as he pitches he can turn it around very quick..
“Geez Rich, did I run over your dog?”
If you did, back over him and maybe he’ll get up.
Rich, if you’re going to be this pissy at me because I disagree with you, I’ve nothing to say. Have a nice day.
Betsy
I didn’t. But anyway, you too.
Drive and if he doesn’t? He’s not capable of pitching like a #2 starter right now no matter what the rest of the rotation is like. Phil has pitched like a #5 starter since mid-May. Forget whatever talent he has or what his future is going to be, but he does not have the experience/talent/repertoire/whatever to pitch to what the Yankees need him to be and that’s not his fault (not that I am saying you said it’s his fault).
Rich, what do you call your Eiland comment with all those !!!!!!!!!!!!? Like you’re yelling at me.
I want to know how Eiland can magically make Javy regain his lost stuff………and how he can make AJ become a decent pitcher again? He’s not a magician.
randy,
I agree with you. When Molina’s market fell below $1 million, I mentioned the Yankees should look into bringing him back.
The problem is though, where would Cervelli play at AAA with Montero there?
Here’s an even scarier prospect. Hughes continues to pitch to an ERA over 5 like he has since Memorial Day. It’s asking a lot of the kid, but when he does pitch he needs to go out there like he’s the #2 man in the rotation. Because that’s what he is now.
–
Its not like the 5 ERA is happening in each start. He has pitched to a 6 game stretch with a 3.5 ERA, and another good stretch. The problem is, he has had 2 or 3 games where he got bombed.
I still Trust Hughes.
Collective angst day on the LoHud???
I will join with Pat M., who is acting today as The Voice of Reason, and feel realistically optimistic about our team’s prospects.
You can bemoan the pile of squandered games but all the wins we piled up count too. August has not been great, yet we stand at the moment tied for the best record in the league even after our skuffling.
I know the ‘best record in the league’ mantra grates on some folks here, but it’s useful as long as it’s true. The Yankees will ultimately be graded on their performance relative to that of their opponents, not against an imaginary ideal.
But if CC loses tonight, I’ll rethink everything.
Betsy
I call that sarcasm, which admittedly doesn’t always translate online.
Eiland was ostensibly hired to shepherd the “big three.”
Joba is lost.
Phil no longer has his curve or change.
IPK was so lost he was traded.
It’s time for a change.
Randy I ( The Original Tin Cup ) ….I’ve been thinking about you and basically your call on Cervelli being exposed and the Molina departure for the past few weeks as Cervelli has slipped and slided his way to beyond being a decent backup…….Also I reference the other evening about your concerns about Hughes being called up in 07…….120mph golf head speed ??? Impressive, just don’t pull your head and come off the ball…..Your imput is missed here
Cervelli isn’t in the Yankee future plans as far as I can see…bye,bye
If Long can work miracles with Granderson, then Eiland should be able to work miracles with Vazquez or Burnett.
Betsy,
Good point about the dollars factoring into the decision to go with Cervelli.
As anyone who ever played sports can attest, good coaching helps, but it’s the athlete that needs to retain the instruction and perform. Kudos to Granderson for buying into K Long’s instruction. It’s maintaining the instruction that’s key. It’s up to the player to take ownership and run with it. Dave Eiland certainly knows pitching and can coach it. In AJ I’m not so sure he has a subject that will run with it.
Rich, I am all for sarcasm as that’s how I get through my day, lol
I admit that you make a good point, but IMO Joba is at fault for his problems. Phil……there’s a better point, but then again, how do we know he has the ability to even throw breaking pitches consistently ? Maybe he’s only capable of throwing 2 pitches.
I think it always comes down to the player; the pitching coach can teach his little heart out, but he can’t execute for the players.
Drive, thanks. I brought that up because Cash is no dummy and although Hal spends plenty of $$, that budget was no joke. Cash had to cut corners where he could……………
I agree about instruction………at some point it is all on the player.
Um, no. Javy is almost physically incapable of pitching and AJ is not someone that anyone can fix.
Burnett can be fixed, anyone can be fixed.
1. Find a way to make his mechanics more repeatable for him so he is more consistent.
2. Make him develop that changeup. Or if he can’t get a feel for the change, a splitter.
Hughes post May 1 or whatever you are looking at is just like Hughes 2009. In basically every start he pitched to a 3 ERA, but he had 1 start where he got shellacked so it made it look like he was pitching to a 5 era or whatever. The truth is there was a greater chance of Hughes throwing a good outing than a bad one
the same holds true now.
Nick in SF…..I was hoping to get some bites on the Yanks postseason wager and have you & / or Erica serve as the holding factor ( 10 % fee to the losers of course )…..However once again when it’s time to put up or stifle the bs , they always button it up……….Giants need to get a little run to make me feel comfortable…….My over / unders selections are beyond my expectations as we are reaching the home stretch
Mitre “terrific in relief of Burnett last night”? That’s a bit of an overstatement.
Why not let Joba start a game or two? He’s settled down since the All-Star break.
Change the guy’s mechanics? The ones he’s been pitching with for over 20 years?
He developed the changeup – and probably at the request of the Yankees. Eiland can not force AJ to throw what he does not want to throw.
The only person that can help AJ is Dave Duncan. Unfortunately, he is with the Cardinals.
———————————————————-
If the pitching is not straightened out the Yankees will not get far in the playoffs. Can’t expect the Yankees to score a ton of runs.
Andy’s injury has really hurt this staff.
Mitre pitched 5 innings of 1 hit ball with only 50 pitches , he was terrific
Jerkface, my point wasn’t to kill Phil, it was to say that he’s not a #2 pitcher -not in the real sense – and expecting him to pitch like that is unfair. I don’t think this is the same as 2009 because that was 1 start that killed Phil; he’s had a bunch of really bad starts since the ASB – although prior to Wednesday he’d pitched pretty well.
Losing Andy hurt, but his absence didn’t affect Javy or AJ – they’ve been bad almost all year. Had they been decent for the last few weeks, we’d be in ok shape because Moseley has filled in as well as could be expected.
What’s the downside risk to replacing Eiland?
To me, it’s very small.
That was not the sole reason Eiland was hired to be the pitching coach.
He was hired to run a pitching staff at the ML level and the pitching has improved each of the three years he has been here.
His sole job is not to just work with young pitchers.
It’s to work with ALL of them.
To that end, he has done his job well. The numbers back it up.
Rich,
If the Yankees didn’t release Carl Pavano, who barely threw a pitch for them for 4 years, they aren’t releasing AJ Burnett.
There is a 0% chance of that happening.
From the start where he gave up 5 runs to Boston, Hughes has given up 5+ runs 6 times. 4 or less runs 12 times.
He is more likely to be good than bad.
Jerkface,
I;m a Hughes fan. I love the kid’s demeanor on the mound. But Phil’s had 15 starts since Memorial Day. In 5 of those 15, he’s allowed 3 run in 6 or fewer innings pitched. I don’t buy the “quality start” stat because it’s describing an ERA of 4.50 as “quality”. Within those 15 start there are 4 others where Phil allowed 5 or more runs. He’s pitched great in 6 starts since June. We need more of that,
Pat M, the Gigantes face an uphill climb to play into the postseason, but I’m not worried about them covering the over… The Yankees need to step up just a notch to make their number, but I have faith that they will do so. The Astros have been quietly piling up wins, but I’m not worried about them, they should still fall well short. I need the Tigers to get to 81 wins, that one could go down to the wire…The Angels have been the biggest disappointment, I have no faith that they can reach their total…
SJ
The issue with Pavano was health. As we are seeing now, when he is healthy, he pitches well. So staying with him makes sense. They didn’t have to worry about him hurting them on the ML roster.
AJ is killing them on the field. Big difference.
As for Eiland, the staff got better when CC got here. CC was great before he got here and he’s great now.
After rereading the box score, I retract my earlier statement. His 3.47 ERA is respectable, although I can remember 30-some years ago when an ERA over 3.00 was not considered favorable. DH rule changed all that.
You don’t buy into quality starts? Whatever, those are starts where the starter gives the team a chance to win. I take that every day of the weak. If all burnett did was go out and pitch 6 innings of 3 run ball he’d be golden.
The point is Hughes has a capacity to be great, and as long as he limits his bad starts ( which he does ) and keep the team in the game in the rest he will be fine.
Jerkface, that’s not great – it’s not even very good.
I don’t agree with Drive because I’ll take 3 runs in 6 innings from a #5 kid pitcher any day of the week, but that ERA is now 4.12. That means his ERA from mid-May is probably close to 6. Ouch.
It sucks for Phil that he has to pitch better than he’s capable right now………he’s getting no help from anyone in the rotation.
The thing is that Hughes is starting for a full year as the 5th starter. You can blame him for the rotation being bad. The blame goes to Burnett and Javy who have to step up. I really don’t have any confidence in the both of them especially based on their history.
“The Yankees will ultimately be graded on their performance relative to that of their opponents, not against an imaginary ideal.”
————————————
The point Nick makes here really gets lost far too often on this board.
For example people are really worried about the pitching in the playoffs. I can understand that worry if you think Andy won’t be back. Personally, though I am not concerned about that.
So then you are talking about CC Sabathia and Andy Pettitte as your 1-2. That is an excellent 1-2 especially since CC this year has actually been better than last year.
At the 3 you have Phil Hughes. His stuff translates very well to the postseason and he is a guy I trust to keep the Yankees in the game come playoff time.
In the ALDS Hughes will be lined up against Colby Lewis or Scott Baker. Are people here not confident in that matchup?
Now the Yankees have to figure out their #4. No playoff team has a good #4. So the Yankees have to find an unreliable #4 starter to matchup against another unreliable #4 starter.
As long as Pettitte comes back and is pitching game 2, the Yankees matchup up very well SP wise.
That means his ERA from mid-May is probably close to 6. Ouch.
–
But Hughes runs against in those starts was not bad. His cumulative ERA might be 6 but overall he has not pitched poorly.
You’re too hung up on the ‘ERA from point X’
Hughes had a 1.28 ERA by his 7th start.
Nick in SF…..My big 5 are all projected to be winners, in fact as of Monday I was lined up to hit 23 winners this season…….I’m pulling for the Giants To make the WC so I have a reason to fly up to the Bay and enjoy some Bay area summer weather……Very unique summer nights in October / November……Ah, a Lefty O’Doulls corned beef sandwich….Pastrami on rye to go……
Burnett can go on and on all day about him stinking up the mound. No one cares about his honesty what we care about are results. He is getting paid all of this money to be garbage and he should be ashamed of himself for being such a joke. He has this great stuff but he can’t harness it and he has a 10 cent head.
I believe in quality starts. I dont buy that pitching to an ERA 4.50 is quality. A staff ERA of 4.50 would rank 12th in the AL this year.
It wasn’t just health. It was insubordination.
He quit on the team, lied to his employers, and didn’t follow his rehab instructions.
Despite all that they kept him because you can’t buyout MLB contracts.
There is no reason to fire Dave Eiland because he’s done a good job here.
CC Sabathia being here is not the sole reason the staff improved.
Phil Hughes has been excellent for the last two. years and Eiland has handled him the right way.
“The problem is though, where would Cervelli play at AAA with Montero there?”
he would have backed up montero.
it’s not like cervelli needs a lot of playing time.
he’s never had it from what i can see looking at his minor league record.
he also would have had significant mlb time too this year had he been at triple a.
LGY….You may have made the post of the day regarding pitching matchups come October……
And Javy is Javy. And NL pitcher with less stuff. I think the Yankees will make it to the postseason but if they fail to win the World Series or even if they win it the rotation needs to be revamped in the offseason asap.
Roster expansion should help the Yankees. First, offensively, having Cervelli and Pena at the bottom of the lineup really hurts, when the pitching is this uncertain. I agree that Moeller needs to be brought up, but a 40-man roster spot would need to be opened up – Reegie Corona perhaps? Bringing up Moeller and Kevin Russo, allows you to pinch hit more aggressively for Cervelli and Pena/Nunez. Getting Berkman back, and calling up Miranda, maybe Curtis or Huffman will lengthen the bench. Aceves will return from the DL, and Albaladejo will be called up. With a bullpen of Aceves, Albaladejo, Chamberlain, Robertson, Logan, Wood in front of Mariano, we only need 5 innings out of whatever combination of Nova, Vasquez, Moseley, Mitre, Gaudin, or Burnett we use to be our 3-4-5 starters.
Jeremy, absolutely………..this is all on Javy and AJ, not a bit on Phil.
I’m looking at Phil’s game log on ESPN.
After his bad Boston start and mediocre Mets/Citi Field start, he was ok against Cleveland, Orioles, Orioles. Bad against the Astros and fine against the Mets at home. After that, Phil was putrid against Seattle , Jays and the Angels (with a nice start in Seattle thrown in). Then, ok against KC at home…….and a decent run up until Wednesday. He’s also not going deep into games anymore and is becoming more inefficient as the season wears on.
3 runs in 6 innings is a good start, especially for a young pitcher………that I disagree with, Drive
Randy I…….The one most singular observation you made about Cervelli dating back to April was his chucking the ball all over the infield……That was a very astute comment then, and even more so now……..My dealings with catchers have always left me with a sense that they’re a grumpy arrogant lot, but they know the game……
pat m-
i think the problem with the yankees now is not so much that they need to add players or coaches as they need to get rid of the ones who really don’t add anything.
sometimes on a team or in a business you don’t realize how much of a cancer someone is to an organization until they are gone.
the question is who do the yankees have that they think they need , but they don’t really need and who actually displace someone else from getting real work done.
i think there’s a lot of spinning wheels on the yankees.
i don’t know anyone there or how the inner dynamic works , but there are all the signs of a team that is not on the same page.
SJ44, the thing with Pavano was at least he didn’t blow so many games, not that he contributed to many wins during those Lost Idle Years…
The Yankees can’t buy out a contract, but they can trade with paying salary. I don’t see them doing it, as they probably think that AJ can turn it around, but that contract isn’t looking good for this year.
The main issue nobody mentions is why every single free agent pitcher that comes here with the exception of CC in the past 8 years has been awful and much worse then the back of their baseball cards
Betsy
Right ! He is the 5th starter right now so getting those type of results are not bad.
The roation was supposed to depend on Javy and Burnett giving quality innings and so far that has not been the case.
“So then you are talking about CC Sabathia and Andy Pettitte as your 1-2. That is an excellent 1-2 especially since CC this year has actually been better than last year. ”
Even if Andy comes back healthy, he will need to get some work in like Spring Training. Who knows how effective Andy will be?
Tin Cup….It’s something for the winter I suppose……Betsy, maybe it’s time to sell your Phil Hughes stock………Over use of a magnifying glass can be harmful to one’s eyes
Triple Short of a Cycle
Many free agents turn into busts in general. That why it’s better to use the farm and make sound trades. That’s why the Yankees had more success during the 90′s than the 2000′s.
So many free agents have turn into busts as Yankees.
“Even if Andy comes back healthy, he will need to get some work in like Spring Training. Who knows how effective Andy will be?”
———————————
Andy is a veteran pitcher. This isn’t his first rodeo.
He knows how to prepare himself and get ready.
I guess I may be optimistic but I am not worried at all about Andy.
Pat M, not sure what that’s supposed to mean…………..but probably nothing good, so I’ll pass on saying anything else.
Jeremy, yep – it’s all on Javy and AJ. If you’re judging Phil strictly as a #5 starter, then his #s are just fine.
October baseball by the Bay would be very nice… the local fans have been deprived of it for quite a while. Tim Lincecum has turned into the weak link of the rotation when he needs to be its anchor, that needs to change. He wasn’t all that bad last night, so improvement is not necessarily a pipe dream for young Tim…. hmmm, perhaps ‘pipe dream’ is a poor choice of worse.
Cash was right about Pavano being a good pitcher – he was just unfortunate to get the guy when he was a skunk. It’s much better to try and develop your own pitchers. I want Lee and the Yanks need him, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he just turns sour once he gets here – that’s the Yankees’ poor luck. Javy was brought here to be a #4 – the expectations for him weren’t high – and he can’t even do that. That’s bad luck.
Andy has a 3.55 ERA in his career in April.
This year he had a 2.21 ERA in April and a 2.96 ERA last year.
He knows what he is doing. This time off could actually help Andy as he will be fresh for the postseason.
It’s too early to give up on Burnett. I’m fine with Joe skipping one of his starts but he’ll be back. Make no mistake, AJ will be starting for us in the playoffs.
Nick in SF
Yeah when was the last time the Giants played October baseball ? 2002 ?
“Andy is a veteran pitcher. This isn’t his first rodeo.
He knows how to prepare himself and get ready. ”
Regardless of whether Pettitte has pitched 20 years, 15 years, 5 years, or 1 year, there may not be enough time for him to fully prepare himself.
Players get rushed back from injury all the time when they are not fully ready. It happens.
A.J. will be starting for us in the playoffs and that’s a bad thing. Imagine how bad he will be this year in October especially since he is pitching worse this year than last year.
If Javy ends up pitching better than AJ in September, AJ may *not* be starting in the playoffs. Even Nova could take his place if he dazzles.
Ah, 2002… the Giants held a 5-0 lead in the 7th inning when Dusty Baker relieved Russ Ortiz and handed him a keepsake game ball… Felix Rodriguex then poured gasoline on the fire and it all fell apart.
The Giants also make the postseason in 2003, they were first-round losers to the wild card Marlins… ugh, remember them?
benshpigel
#yankees v white sox: jeter, swish, tex, cano, thames (dh), posada, kearns, gardner, nunez (3b), cc sp
Oh yeah ! Thanks Nick in SF. I thought they made it in 2003.
They should have won that World Series in 2002. Dusty Baker was a fool also his policy of having kids hang around the team all the time was weird.
now the clowns are calling for firing the pitching coach……..classic shortsighted crap.
how about these facts; gaudan stinks and is not the answer to any question. vazquez qill be gone in a month. burnett is a disgrace and should be skipped at least once.
\hughes and cc need to carry things until pettite gets back..
they need to sign lee in the offseason, pettitte retire, and add 1 more starter. staff 2011 is cc, lee, hughes, ?, and ?….the ? will potentially be; nova, brackman, etc. plus one addtl signing or moron burnett as the 5th starter……..
“It’s something for the winter I suppose…”
pat m-
on the contrary,i think the time to do it is in the heat of battle because you can feel who’s in the way because it’s a feel thing and not a rational thing.
when i was a bullpen catcher under clete , i saw him ask every player who could play to be ready for a game we needed to stay alive for a playoff run. three pitches who could have thrown a few pitches , but didn’t feel like throwing opted out when the game went into extra innings.
we won that game and clete cut all three later that night in the locker room. we went on to make the playoffs and finish second in the playoffs.
you find out who doesn’t belong when crunch time comes.
the yankees have too many players floating around just being there.
they need to find out who wants to play when it counts.
there’s a lot more to pitching than statistics. Phil Hughes has kept the Yankees in virtually every game he’s started this year. The game against the Jays was only the 3rd time all season he put the team in a hole. The Yankees usually find a way to win games that they keep close, that’s the hallmark of a veteran team like this. Hughes has done an excellent job in giving them a chance to win.
AJ has been awful this year at doing that, as has Vazquez. We all agree on that. It’s up to the rotation to keep the games close when they don’t have their good stuff and we’ll be looking at home field advantage for the post season. Putting Vazquez back in the rotation doesn’t make much sense, he just had one game where he pitched well and that was after the Jays had a big lead and might have let up a little, just like the Sox probably did last night when Mitre was in the game-I didn’t see Mitre pitching great baseball, he was throwing strikes and they were making outs in meaningless innings.
The key to all this is for Andy to come back healthy by mid-September. If he’s OK they’ll be very tough in the playoffs. If not, and if AJ continues to pitch as badly as he has since the end of July there won’t be a #28 coming this year.
Jeremy,
I think that is true when free agents are over the hill or on the downside. Pavano we signed in his prime. Now all of a sudden since he leaves the Yanks he is healthy and pitching great? Vasquez we got in his prime and he was good for half a year. Then he leaves the Yanks and had some very good years. I’m not saying that I expect these pitchers to be just as good. I would however expect them to perform like At least number 4 or 3 starters
Randy I is right on with his criticism of the Molina move. CB has made similar criticism in regard to not having an experienced backup. The Yankees got cheap last winter and now we are seeing the results. I have no idea how good Dave Eiland is or isn’t but he hasn’t been able to get through to Burnett or Chamberlain. He’s had some success with Vasquez but we don’t know if Vasquez is hurt or not. As for Burnett no-one has been able to get through to him so is it fair to judge Eiland in regards to either Javy or AJ?
As for not worrying about Boston: If the Yankees were five back in the loss column and the two division leaders were playing like they have , don’t you think most us would be thinking that the impossible was possible. After all we’ve seen it before.
This team has problems both with the starting pitching and the offence which is very inconsistent. Will they make the playoffs? Almost certainly. Will they win the division? Maybe. Could the worst happen? Yes. Let’s be honest.
AJ isn’t the only starter in baseball having a very difficult time right now.
Tim Lincecum, the 2 time Cy Young award winner, is 1-5 with a 6.40 ERA since the ASB. If he was in the Yankees rotation would everyone be calling him ‘gutless’, ‘moronic’, ‘stupid’, etc, etc, etc?
Cliff Lee isn’t burning it up in Texas either
Pitchers go through slumps just like batters. That’s no free pass to AJ (he gives up plenty on his own), but he is capable of turning it around, there’s just no telling when it could happen. If I’m Girardi I probably pitch him in turn against the A’s, who don’t hit very well, on Wednesday-he pitched a good game against them in Oakland last month. He would just be on a short leash, it’s past the point where you can stick with a starter after giving up 4 runs in the first couple of innings. In the old days AJ would have been done in the 1st inning last night as SJ, CB, and Pat M. have noted.
It tells you something that Joba wasn’t even mentioned.