Video chat beginning at 1
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Sep 01, 2010 
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Stick around folks. Sam and I are going to be video chatting at 1 p.m.
Go to lohud.com/protalklive to get in on the conversation. We’ll be talking all things Yankees, taking questions and trying not to overdo it with the West Wing references. See you then.
“# tyanksfan36 September 1st, 2010 at 12:37 pm
I am just skeptical of their figures. Even still, I agree that they have to fight for attendance. This weekend I’ve invited people to the game and they can’t go because they’re either going to a Rays game of the USF game. They charge the least admission of any of the other minor league ballparks and don’t charge for parking. For a team with the best record in the FSL I guess I just expect there to be more people filling the seats.
”
I’d rather go to a College Football game than A ball also….that’s probably the mindset of a lot of people. The dollar can only be stretched so far in the Tampa market like I said in my previous post which is why there are a lot of attendance issues for several teams
Orlando has no college football competition. UCF sucks. No one is driving an hour to go to USF, 2 hours to UF, or 4 hours for FSU / UM. The only sport that will draw in Orlando is the Magic, and there is likely not a great amount of overlap between NBA and MILB.
They could probably get a good following in Orlando.
Another issue is that the Tampa/St Pete area is full of old people who wanna watch the games on TV. They get real good TV and radio ratings.
Orlando is full of college students. We have one of the largest universities in the country and its only getting bigger.
“# Jerkface September 1st, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Orlando has no college football competition. UCF sucks. No one is driving an hour to go to USF, 2 hours to UF, or 4 hours for FSU / UM. The only sport that will draw in Orlando is the Magic, and there is likely not a great amount of overlap between NBA and MILB.
They could probably get a good following in Orlando.
”
UCF’s fanbase is growing and they play on a very nice campus/environment and are improving. They’ll move up in conference in a few years so that fanbase will continue to grow b/c casual fans will hop on the bandwagon in a bigger conference. Think about the #s….maybe 40K at UCF home game saturday, 35K at USF, 65-70K at FSU, 30K at UM, and 90K at UF. So that’s an estimated 260K fans at games this Saturday. That’s #s that people ignore when talking about a ‘pro/minor league market’ especially in the Fall in Florida where Fall tailgate Saturdays are huge.
I think MILB could work in Orlando if they put it in a suburban/affluent setting(Rollins College by Winter Park or Oviedo near UCF) and not by Disney..locals don’t want to go near the tourist areas and you don’t want to solely rely on tourist in the summer
Jerkface that is a good point. My Mom (and Dad before he died) moved to FL when they retired and were original Devil Rays fans. My Mom never misses a game…from the comfort of her easy chair. We used to take her to the Trop when we visited, but she doesn’t want to go anymore.
not getting anything at the chat
Move the Rays to Charlotte NC…..Let the White Sox move their AAA club elsewhere
Neil Everette on espn has been chastising Rays fans for 2 days now for their low attendance for the Toronto series
I want to chat
I hate my stupid cubicle and the stupid computer that sits in it..
Tampayank
That is true, as a baseball fan though I know I’d rather go to any baseball game over football but that’s just me. I know the bucs are blacked out because they didn’t sell out. Their attendance has suffered due to the recession. The Rays complain about their attendance too but I think they just don’t understand the state of the area. The location of their stadium makes it so half of their fans have to drive an hour to get there. Tampa has no public transportation which makes it even more difficult to get people there.
I always feel bad when people rag on fans for not showing up to games. Is it really the fault of the fans or is it a problem with the business model?
“Is it really the fault of the fans or is it a problem with the business model?”
I wish the national media would explain the local situation instead of just ripping the area everyday. Cincinnati and Atlanta are in 1st place and they are not selling out everyday but they only pick on the Rays
I think the Rays problem is location. Their stadium is in a business/beack district. For the average family to go to a game, they probably have to drive an hour to get there over the pesky howard franklin bridge which is notorious for back ups. The problem with the Tampa Bay Rays is that they play in Pinellas St. Pete. High crime rate, low family housing. If they moved to Tampa their attendance would be better because it would be less of a hassle for a lot of people.
shame – i’m always quick to blame fans, but only in places where fans exist (chicago, kc, pitsburgh, nats are all capable of selling out every game, they have plenty of baseball fans in their respective cities).
in tampa, i’d say the business model. the model doesn’t work, none of the numbers add up without fans, so that would be them grossly misreading the market they opened a franchise in.
derek jeter – as shame pointed out – is one of the 5 greatest living americans. any “yankees fan” that bashes Jeter isnt a yankees fan at all.
Move the Rays to Charlotte NC
————————————————————–
Id bet you they’d thrive there. The NHL Hurricanes probably outdraw the Rays.
I always wanted an MLB team in New Orleans. Only for the selfish fact that I’d like to go to see a game.
scratch that – not 5 greatest living Americans. 5 greatest living human beings.
Think about the #s….maybe 40K at UCF home game saturday
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MILB and MLB don’t have to compete with 40,000 fans on a saturday for baseball, they can win the weekday, friday, and sunday crowds. UCF games still have plenty of empty seats at Brighthouse Stadium and most of the hardcore UCF fans tailgate and don’t go inside.
The point isn’t to draw 40,000 to a MILB. Its to get 5000, or 10,000. You can explain away things by saying florida is a ‘college football’ town, but there just aren’t that many college football games and for the most part the seasons don’t overlap!
The real problems for the Rays are stadium location and their population type.
I really think they’d get better mileage in Orlando/Closer to Orlando. And I agree, they should stay away from Disney. I heard rumor that UCF was going to let a minor league team use their baseball facility but that was a year ago and nothing has happened since. Maybe that is going to change.
I don’t know how they’d do that AND have college baseball, so its probably not going to happen, but that is what I heard. Either way, they need to get close to UCF. This area has a lot of young people with time to kill and not a whole lot to do.
Jerkface
you said “we” when talking about Orlando…was that another clue for your stalker?
I wish the national media would explain the local situation instead of just ripping the area everyday. Cincinnati and Atlanta are in 1st place and they are not selling out everyday but they only pick on the Rays
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The Braves can draw 30+ , the Rays seem perpetually stuck at 20k. And I think the Reds have more potential draw than the Rays do, as they put a winner on the field. Next season if they maintain the fans will come back.
The stadium is one the wrong side of the bay.
If the stadium was in downtown Tampa, they would draw well.
They aren’t going to draw any better in St. Pete. They have done everything they could to make it work and there isn’t anything more than they can do in St. Pete.
Florida is a football state. More specifically, its a college football state.
However, if the stadium was in Tampa, they would draw well enough to make it work in Tampa.
You give UCF students a college night with dollar beer or something and you’ll draw. UCF is a drinking college first and foremost.
@ Jerkface I was throwing those numbers out mainly to explain the effect on pro sports franchises in Florida(Rays, Lightning, Heat, Magic) from the College followings…not really directly at A ball baseball which should be fine. And I went to UCF, I know about our tailgating and I’m optimistic about the attendance numbers, I think they’ll have a solid team this year
SJ44
Everyone in Tampa has that sentiment. They play on the wrong side of the bay. Tampa isn’t like a lot of other cities mostly I think because lack of public transportation.
The Rays got duped into moving into that stadium. They sold it as a great spot and they fell for it. Which is a shame. For years though they sucked and now it is only becoming an issue since they’ve been winning.
I think all of Florida has a real issue with public transportation. We’re a very spread out state in that our 5 biggest cities are huge drives apart. And there isn’t any reliable way to get around any of the cities once you get there. It sucks.
The new money sink light rail they are building should be a step in the right direction.
Tampa Yankees picking up partners not changing locations….
http://bit.ly/d2sBto
tyanksfan36,
Well Yankee Stadium isn’t exactly located in a family friendly neighborhood either. The only other reason to go there is if you’ve been summoned to appear in the criminal court which is 2 blocks away.
I’ve been to Tampa once and I did go to the Dali museum. Is that bridge the only way to get from Tampa to St Pete?
If so, that would keep me away from the Trop for sure. Lots of traffic. Couldn’t imagine what it would be like on a game day.
It’s been some years since I went to the old Orange Bowl where they are building the new Marlins Park…..Bit I do recall the area not being very friendly …..Ha the South Beach renaissance spread to that part of town ????
If so, that would keep me away from the Trop for sure. Lots of traffic. Couldn’t imagine what it would be like on a game day.
–
I’ve left for games at 3 PM, fought traffic all the way over I4, arrived in tampa at 5 pm and still late to the game because it took me an hour and change just to get across the bridge. Then having to negotiate parking and walk to the stadium.
Going to tropicana is one of my all time worst experiences of anything ever. I’ve punched my steering wheel multiple times from that drive. I once missed a first inning Matsui HR because of it, boy I was pissed.
FrankiePiliere Jeter swing analysis coming soon on FanHouse. Hope all u Yankee fans who liked me after the prospect reports still like me after today lol
http://fanha.us/6sr My breakdown of the root of Jeter’s 2010 struggles
What am I missing re: Yanks and Orlando?
How any Yankee fan can disrespect Jeter is beyond me. It’s one thing to say he’s not having a good year, another to trash him. I still think he’s going to come up with some big hits this post-season.
I don’t think I’ll be reading that article as it sounds like Frankie is going to be ripping on Jeter.
pat – thanks for the link. Looks like a lot of wind and fury, signifying very little, on a slow afternoon in Yankee-land. I guess that’s what happens when you’re in first place with very few problems
If nothing else, I learned a bit about the sports economy of Florida.
SJ44…your thoughts on the ‘Canes this year? Do they win the ACC, beat OSU, neither, both?
Thanks in advance
Are there any plans for a new stadium in Tampa, if not is bankruptcy/contraction a possibility down the road? I have no idea about their financials but I know they can’t afford to keep their own players when they hit FA and the stadium averages what 15-20k, even in a pennant race?
Tampa Yankees picking up partners not changing locations….
http://bit.ly/d2sBto
–
From the actual given quotes in the article it just addresses the major league team and spring training, no mention of the minor league team. Until I see printed otherwise I’d assume that the moves announced tomorrow are the beginning of taking the A team out of Tampa.
“# pat September 1st, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Tampa Yankees picking up partners not changing locations….
http://bit.ly/d2sBto
”
so a partial sale? maybe that means they will move 10-15 Tampa Yankee games to Orlando
http://fanha.us/6sr My breakdown of the root of Jeter’s 2010 struggles
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So much for the guys on the board saying “he still has bat speed”. Doesn’t sound too good for Jeter.
“# GopherCane September 1st, 2010 at 1:46 pm
SJ44…your thoughts on the ‘Canes this year? Do they win the ACC, beat OSU, neither, both?
Thanks in advance
”
Randy Shannon’s gameday coaching will hold them back
Interesting article from Piliere. Thanks for posting.
Piliere’s piece wasn’t a rip-job at all. It was a pragmatic evaluation, but done w/respect.
You don’t really have to read the entire article, since this line in the last paragraph pretty much says it all:
“Right now, the swing is just a little too long and the hands just a bit too sluggish for him to resemble the Jeter of old.”
There’s no shame in getting older, it’s happening to us all.
Piliere’s article can be summed up thusly: Jeter’s hands are slower so he’s “cheating” and starting his swing earlier. Age is catching up to him.
That’s his thesis. Not exactly out of left field.
Frankie’s story didn’t rip Jeter.
He gave a very accurate analysis of his issues at the plate.
There is a reason why he’s struggling and what Frankie is writing is pretty much the scouts book on Jeter’s struggles this year.
Pat M,
No, the OB area is still a terrible area. Its why sinking over 600 million dollars of public money into a baseball stadium in that area of town is the worst use of public money in Dade County history since the Metrorail.
How do I think the Canes will do this year? I think they will lose a close one to OSU, go onto to win the ACC, and play in a BCS Bowl.
I think this is the year they get back on track as long as Jacory Harris can stay healthy.
SJ, just wondering, what do you do for a living? It seems you’re on 24/7, or maybe just whenever I’m on haha
pat -
One sentence I focus on is that Piliere said Jeter’s swing is upper-body dependent right now. Could a leg injury force those adjustments?
Bronx Jeers September 1st, 2010 at 1:20 pm
LOL! The hockey team is in Raleigh. (2? to 3 Hrs away) Charlotte is looking at building a stadium uptown. A real high growth area. I think it would be a smart move for Tampa.
maybe Chad can get a clearer response from the Yankees about the possible Tampa Yankee move. say if they move 15 games to Orlando and it’s a success, they probably move the Affiliate entirely
“So much for the guys on the board saying “he still has bat speed”. Doesn’t sound too good for Jeter.”
Yes, because this is conclusive.
Why not just say “See, someone else thinks so too, so I told you so”?
I think the forthrightness would be appreciated.
Hard, thanks!
No shame at all in getting older – it beats the alternative. I’m not giving up on Jeter and I’m not going to say he’s in decline until he shows next year that this year wasn’t a fluke. He’s got an awful lot of pride and he’ll work hard (not that he never doesn’t work hard) to get back to the standards he sets for himself.
Frankie’s article is pretty accurate from what I’ve seen this season. He’s just out in front a lot more than he usually is but I still think its too early to know for sure what the cause is. Could be actual bat speed loss, could be an injury he isn’t talking about, or could be just a very long funk.
If it is a decrease in bat speed though then it doesn’t mean he’s finished…just means it will take some time to adjust and evolve his approach as he eluded to.
Piellere writes really good stuff.
As a fan of a franchise that always has attendance issues (NJ Devils) its really hard for me to hear people get on the cases of men and women that don’t make $40,000 an at-bat for not spending whatever disposable income they have on tickets.
The economy is in the gutter right now, ESPECIALLY in Florida where the housing market all but evaporated (not trying to interject politics into this, just pointing out some basic facts). In this economic climate, I’d assume attendance has been down across the board in MLB as well as other sports. Quite frankly, if it isn’t, I’d be shocked. Personally, I say it has more to do with ticket prices being out of control.. but then again, I don’t know what it costs you to go to a Rays game. Hell, the prices probably arent even that bad at the Stadium, but I can’t remember the last time I was able to buy any through the Yankees. So in conclusion, I know nothing about nothing and think most of the time people would like to see sporting events live but can’t usually afford it.
The howard franklin bridge is pretty much the fastest way to get to tropicana unless you take back roads. It is an awful drive. When we went to two games against the yanks at the beginning of the month we actually got a hotel on the beach so we wouldn’t have to make that long commute twice.
Its not just the area, its the hassle of the commute
Jerkface,
To me it would be like putting Yankee Stadium somewhere down on the eastern shore of Staten Island with only the Verrazzano to get in and out.
Only the Verrazzano has I think about 8 more lanes IIRC.
Doreen,
Yes, a leg injury can make your swing long as you compensate for not having your legs under you.
That would also affect bat speed.
Until we know whether or not he is healthy, and we probably won’t know that until after the season, its impossible to say if his struggles are all age related, injury related, or a combination of the two.
Doreen
The simple answer is, yes it could.
The more complex one would involve knowing if an injury exists and what the nature of it is.
Give Jeter a day off, maybe the final game of the Balt series with the off day right after it.
Yes, because this is conclusive.
Why not just say “See, someone else thinks so too, so I told you so”?
–
Isn’t that what I just said?
My problem with the “bat speed loss due to age” theory continues to be this.
How did Jeter consciously recognize a loss in bat speed in March? He’s been swinging like this this year since day 1.
The idea is essentially based on the premise this was a proactive, conscious adjustment made by Jeter in spring training, based on an assumption his bat speed was and would continue to be slower, before the season really ever started.
Something about that smells funny to me. Its almost too convenient an explanation.
SJ44 September 1st, 2010 at 1:53 pm
I think you are right about the Canes losing a close one to OSU, but I think they finish 2nd in ACC division to VT. LOL! Should be interesting year.
good article on jeter. he’s clearing compensating for something by “cheating” his swing. wether it’s pure bat speed, reaction time, not picking up the ball quickly… something is causing him to “guess” more and not let the ball travel through the zone.
As the article said, if the swing is a mechanical issue, Jeter will figure it out. If not and it’s age, Jeter is also smart enough to figure out how to adjust to that, too. He’s not likely to have many .330/23 homer 90 RBI seasons left in him, but, I wouldn’t want to bet against at least one more.
Jeter had a noticeable limp the last week or so, but for the most part his actual base running and defense have looked normal. What kind of injury allows him to use his legs to field but not hit?
Genuinely curious.
SJ, the fan base (read Grassy) is going to go into meltdown mode if they lose a close one to OSU. I think a lot of us desperately want to announce that “we’re back”, kinda like the 2000 win vs FSU.
Thoughts on Randy Shannon, his coaching staff and recruiting?
stuckey99 – maybe he’s been compensating for it for a few years now (very likely) and this year it just isn’t working?
either way, i don’t see a more reasonable explanation than age coming from anyone.
“Isn’t that what I just said?”
No.
“Doesn’t sound too good for Jeter” should’ve read “Sound good for me”.
Stuckey,
To some degree that’s why I think he’s banged up a little.
That said, you don’t consciously know that you need to start you’re bat earlier…you just feel the need when you’re getting beat on pitches and it happens. As I’ve said before….anytime Jeter has struggled its been for this very same reason…he gets out in front and jumps at the ball instead of letting it travel deep…he’s just always corrected it much quicker than he has this year….don’t know the reason for that just yet.
Jerkface September 1st, 2010 at 2:03 pm
It could be a foot injury (arch). I had one from sliding into home plate and it really hurt all the time except when I ran.
If it was just the swing, but it’s the fielding too. Could be an injury affecting both but it’s hard to completely suppress the thought that maybe 2009 was the aberration, not 2010.
Doreen…Watching Derek run and transfer weight when swinging leads me to believe that he has a left leg issue……Speculation of course, but watch him run especially his first step or two…..He just doesn’t look right at times…….He seems to go after pitches up as anything down seems to causes problems…..We’ll see …..
Bronx Jeers September 1st, 2010 at 1:58 pm
Jerkface,
To me it would be like putting Yankee Stadium somewhere down on the eastern shore of Staten Island with only the Verrazzano to get in and out.
Only the Verrazzano has I think about 8 more lanes IIRC.
***************
Sunday at 12pm-
It took me 50 minutes to get across Staten Island
“stuckey99 – maybe he’s been compensating for it for a few years now (very likely) and this year it just isn’t working?”
I suspect if he was, there’d be some statistical watermarks of it. Like pulling the ball more (even if more successfully than this year).
Jeter’s got bad legs?
Time for him to let go of the actress.
I remember when he went through a similar swoon while dating Mariah Carey. Then he dumped her and went on a tear.
Phonetically speaking, Minka and Mariah have the same initials. Coincidence? I think not.
Joe did say Jeter is suffering from tendonitis in his leg…….calf, I think.
Thanks, pat & SJ44.
We all know with Jeter, the subject of injury is verboten. I suppose he doesn’t want to use it as an excuse if it is the case. Just wondered if it could be more than age. Age is factor, simply because it eventually is for everyone.
Derek Jeter has a very high baseball IQ. As high as anyone’s I have ever been around in the game.
When you see him swing at the first pitch more than just about any time in his career, alarms go off. He’s not a dumb hitter.
It tells me, he is looking for the first fastball to hit because he’s not confident he can let the ball travel as deep as he used to and still have his hands quick enough to hit pitches.
That’s a loss of confidence and bat speed.
I think its highly unlikely he has lost this much bat speed only to age in a year since, last year was one of the best of his career.
He also isn’t as balanced at the plate as he’s been in the past.
Its why I think an injury is behind all this and he’s having a difficult time finding a way to hit effectively with this injury.
Randy Shannon? I like Randy personally, think its the best staff he’s put together in his time at Miami, and he’s finally got recruiting back on track.
It seems all the troubled kids are ending up at Florida now instead of Miami. That’s a plus.
I think he’s been fine in the field this season. Maybe not as good as last year but still much better than 2008….he is very sure handed and positions himself much better than he used to.
“That said, you don’t consciously know that you need to start you’re bat earlier…you just feel the need when you’re getting beat on pitches and it happens.”
That’s sort of my point.
For Jeter, that subconscious feeling seems to have been present from day 1. One would think some struggles would lead to such an adjustment if raw batspeed was the issue.
jerkface – i’ve had an mcl injury all summer from softball that causes me more trouble at the plate than in the outfield. lateral pressure (stepping towards a pitch) hurts way more than sprinting around after flyballs
Pat M -
Thanks. I’ll try and pay attention to that, though I am not very good at picking those kinds of things up.
Jeter won’t be switching positions until after he reaches the 3,000 hit mark as a shortstop…not as a mostly shortstop plus DH plus outfielder. Right now, he needs 107 hits to reach 3,000 and 129 as a shortstop. There a lot of pride involved in being the only shortstop to reach that mark. after that, I think you’ll see him at DH and even in left field in the future. It’s not just Jeter, but, I’m sure that historic milestone means something to the team, also.
You think so, blake? It seems to me like his range is down.
Kevin Long said something yesterday that tipped me off that it could be injury related.
He said Jeter doesn’t need any extra work on his hitting woes.
Jeter ALWAYS takes extra hitting.
When the Yankees are on the road and extra hitting is available, Jeter is always on the first bus to the ballpark taking extra hitting.
When the hitting coach is saying he doesn’t need it now, while being in one of the worst slumps of his career, it tells me his issues could be injury related.
I’ve never heard a hitting coach ever say a slumping player doesn’t need extra work in the cage.
I hope Jeter retires before he switches positions.
Doreen…..I’ll be at The Villa Nova later today …….
Plantar fasciitis in the right foot.
That’s my guess.
Watch Jeter go 3-4 tonight to shut down all the questions.
Early in april, maybe about the middle or last week of the month, Jeter went back into the outfield and his foot gave away and ripped up about 2 yards of turf and came down hard on his left knee. Might have been in Baltimore or maybe in NY, but, until then, he was hitting pretty well. Perhaps that was the beginning of the issues.
SJ
I thought that too when I read Long’s quote this morning and combined it with Girardi saying Jeter’s knee had been bothering him a little the other day.
While it’s unclear exactly why it’s happening what we’ve seen from Jeter at the plate this season is concerning.
Whether it’s injury or age or whatever, this season Jeter has been unable to consistently do the single most important thing his career has been based on – allow the ball to travel very, very deep into the hitting zone while still having fast enough hands to whip the bat barrel through the zone to hit the ball.
Instead what’s happening is that when the ball travels deep (and not even as deep as it did before) Jeter’s bat isn’t as far forward in it’s trajectory as it used to be. Jeter is at the point of his swing where the bat barrel is actually going down or is level. That’s why he’s not getting lift on the ball.
More recently he’s added another change to his swing which is of concern. He’s opening his front hip up early – much earlier then we’ve ever seen him do. It’s strange to watch because hitting that way is the exact opposite of what’s made him such a success. It’s as if he’s changed one of the most fundamental parts of his game. And he’s likely doing that to facilitate his hands getting though the zone. But when he does that he becomes very vulnerable to off speed pitches.
Last year was arguably the best of Jeter’s career. Hopefully these issues are related to some kind of injury as has happened with Jeter in the past. But the nature of his swing this year is a concern.
Wave,
Down from when? From last year…probably a little. I still think he’s been more than adequate there.
A lot of rationalizations; meanwhile, they are all just hypotheses. The bottom line is that he looks awful and is unable to drive the ball. Is he hurt? Maybe, maybe not. Is he delivering? An emphatic no.
CB,
With all of the changes he’s making I’m thinking its something injury related.
Its almost as if he is trying to get comfortable at the plate to be able to swing the bat with any consistency.
I’ve never seen him make so many in season adjustments to dramatically alter his mechanics.
That tells me he’s compensating for an injury. Although, he’s loath to ever say anything about it.
Blake- I’d say his range is down from where it was in 2008 and 2009.
yankfanca – disregarding any explanation as hypothesis’, then just “stating the problem” is very constructive…
“Whether it?s injury or age or whatever, this season Jeter has been unable to consistently do the single most important thing his career has been based on ? allow the ball to travel very, very deep into the hitting zone while still having fast enough hands to whip the bat barrel through the zone to hit the ball.”
I hadn’t really thought about it before, but this approach should make him more susceptible to age-related performance decline than an average player shouldn’t it? Like you say, age may or may not be the cause of his struggles this year. Even if we haven’t reached that point yet, it can’t be far off. I would be even more worried if not for his intelligence, which should enable him to compensate for this somewhat through mechanical adjustments, and his position, which can allow him to be a positive contributor in the face of such marked decline.
I don’t think it is age related quite yet.
Just turned 36 & works very hard after coming off a great year plus he was hitting well early this year.
I believe he got an injury early on & we will know about it in detail after the year.
I have tendonitis in my right knee now & it hurts like you would not believe & i baby it with every step.
SJ-
I hope it’s injury and have felt that was the cause many times this season. Watching him – especially opening his front hip that way has not been good to see. It flies in the face of everything that’s made him so good.
He was flat out great last season. Sometimes players do just all of a sudden lose bat speed but given how good he was last season that would be odd as well. Back in 2008 when he had that off season I was confident it was an injury.
Let’s hope he rebounds. He’s such a good athlete that it would be strange for him to rapidly lose bat speed from one season to another.
Well, you can call it what you want but, they aren’t kicking him to the curb.
He’s produced defensively. He hasn’t offensively.
Guess what? It means somebody has to pick him up, you deal with it, and go on because that’s what championship teams do.
Pat M -
Oh, I wish I could go again!! Enjoy!
Maybe he does what Mattingly did in ’93 or ’94 and goes to a modified O’Neill leg kick to get the timing straightened out. Mattingly did that because he wasn’t able to do anything else to drive the ball. Worked pretty well for him.
Watch Jeter go 3-4 tonight to shut down all the questions.
—
1 game doesn’t shut down questions. And while Jeter’s numbers looked good in april, he was grounding the ball 70% of the time that month and swinging early. The problems were already apparent, it just hadn’t caught up to him yet.
CB…..Real good breakdown……SJ, his approach to hitting has been an ever changing process since May or so……The no bp speaks volumes though, didn’t know that
Where’s the hard-hitting analysis? The only 2 things I learned is that Jerkface hails from Florida, and apparently a lot of drinking goes on there.
Irreverent — Maybe I’m just not as presumptuous as many here. Your speculation is very valuable though.
And Manny Ramirez has a mixed afternoon. 1-3 with a soft single to right field and a strikeout.
Wave,
I honestly don’t think he’s been that bad this year defensively. You’re entitled to your opinion.
As for Jeter? I prefer the head in the sand approach. I know people will say, “But! But, But!!!”
I don’t care. He’s allowed to grow old gracefully with the Yankees as far as I’m concerned.
He’s not hurting us in the field. And the Yankees can carry a light bat. If that bat is Jeter for now, then so be it.
Jeter will not sink the Yankees, no matter how many of you argue otherwise.
Blake-
I wasn’t criticizing you, you are entitled to your opinion too.
However, if you believe at all in such things, you might want to take a look at the defensive ratings provided by BaseBall Projection (Total Fielding Runs) and by Baseball Info Solutions (Defensive Runs Saved) (see both Baseball Reference and Fangraphs), which have Jeter below average defensively for AL shortstops, and significantly down from 2007 and 2008.
Age or injury related? I don’t claim to know, just hoping it is an injury. He’s only 36, that’s historically old for a SS but times are different now.
m…….you make too much sense
Pat M,
Unfortunately, I’ll still get flamed.
But, the internets are flame-retardant.
Anyway, I’ve never seen so much hullaballoo over a 5 IP/2 ER performance. And Phil needs to stop beating himself up.
Wave,
I personally don’t put a whole lot of stock in them. I don’t have a problem with folks that do though and am certainly not trying to open that can of worms.
Jeter has seemed fine defensively this year. Last year he was particularly good so perhaps he’s hasn’t been quite as good.
Off topic – but I honestly don’t know what to make of defensive metrics. There is so much year to year variance in that data that it’s almost impossible to interpret. There’s something in the way those metrics have been structured that makes them too prone to variation. It’s not the underlying skill or performance that could possibly be changing that much.
Franklin Guitierrez was hailed last year as one of the most under rated players in the game, a true superstar who was flying under the radar because he was a historically great CF with a UZR of 29.
This year he’s on pace for a UZR of 10.
Guittierrez is a great defensive player – elite. But beyond saying that I don’t know how to quantify that value. He’s two wins worse this year due to lost defensive value?
That takes him from being an elite overall player last year to just ok this year.
That just can’t be the case.
And if it’s an issue of the number of chances in any one season then the data is meaningless for year to year comparisons and shouldn’t incorporate into yearly WAR in the manner that it is.
CB….Frankie Guitterrez is still an elite CF regardless of the data reported
CB-
Defensive metrics aren’t perfect, heaven knows. They are arguably subject to expectation bias and more than one year is needed for any kind of conclusion drawn from them.
However, as a record of what happened in any year, and as a way of comparing all fielders at a position to each other without introducing a host of other biases, they are a very useful statistic.
I watch most of the games, and to me Jeter’s range is down, especially to his left. TFR and DRS back that up. Perhaps it is a fluke, but it sure doesn’t seem that way to me.
Wave-
I actually think that defensive metrics are the best example of the issues about “noise” you were talking about yesterday.
They are too sensitive to events at the margin to interpret for any one year from what I’ve seen.
When you look at the raw data it takes very few alterations in chances for the scale to swing greatly.
It seems like set of metrics that aren’t very robust and prone to fluctuation that isn’t capturing true changes in performance.
Yesterday you brought up the idea of statistical performance fluctuating as noise or “randomly.” Defensive metrics are probably the best example of your argument.
But this is a long standing issue that probably has no answer because there is no gold standard which makes assessing the test properties of these new metrics impossible.
And the fielding wizards still don’t account for weather conditions and how badly the pitcher missed this zone when a guy plays a hitter according to positioning and the ball is hit beyond all expectations of being played, while some pizza faced clown sits at a monitor and says, “That’s in his defensive zone. shudda been caught”. That’s what that crap is worth.
Teams wouldn’t be spending the money they are spending (the Rays spent over 1 million dollars) on developing their own defensive metric models if UZR was deemed accurate and reliable.
Its just random and inconsistent according to many people in the game for them to rely on it.
Jerry Crasnick was talking about this topic in his chat today and talked about the reliability and consistency of the metric.
FieldFX will change everything.
CB-
I hear you.
In my heart, though, which of course is pretty subjective, I believe you are falling prey to “letting the perfect be the enemy of the good”.
As long as you realize defensive metrics aren’t a measurement like Batting Average or Home Runs, and as long as you look at multiple sources and don’t rely on one, and avoid the obvious problem positions, and don’t decide that five months of defensive data paints a perfect picture of a player’s defensive ability, any more than two months of hitting data would paint a perfect picture of a hitter’s offensive ability, then they are useful.
How else are you really going to draw any kind of trustworthy judgment as to the relative defensive abilities of Nick Punto, Cesar Izturis and Marco Scutaro? Do you watch them all enough to decide? Does anyone? And if you or someone else did, wouldn’t there be even more biases in that method than defensive metrics introduce? Sure there would.
“Teams wouldn’t be spending the money they are spending (the Rays spent over 1 million dollars) on developing their own defensive metric models if UZR was deemed accurate and reliable.”
That is incorrect. Teams will obviously try to improve on the common measure in order to obtain a competitive advantage. Most won’t succeed, but some will or may and that alone is worth the investment.
Fielding F/x will be better, but until it exists that doesn’t mean that nothing can r should be done.
The only FX that will change things is Fed-Ex. Package up these clowns and their little books and air freight them out of the country. Antarctica would be just fine.
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Teams watch these players all the time and make judgments on their relative skills.
As far as biases, most people in baseball would rather trust their judgment than uneven metrics.
When a more consistent and more accurate metric is developed (whether its by individual teams or FieldFX for example), they will rely on it more than they do now.
Not true Wave.
Most teams in baseball are loathe to spend money when they don’t have to.
Its why 60% of the teams in baseball are understaffed when it comes to their scouting and marketing departments.
Over the last two arbitration years, teams haven’t been using UZR in their hearings.
Teams have no problem using any metric available to them when attempting to win arbitration cases.
Why then are teams not using UZR in their hearings? Because they don’t trust the results. Even when the results could be favorable to their case.
“As far as biases, most people in baseball would rather trust their judgment than uneven metrics.”
Again incorrect, or the Rays per your info wouldn’t be spending a million dollars to develop their own defensive metric.
SJ44-
First of all, I’m not talking UZR alone. I’m talking about looking at the full spectrum of defensive measurements. And short of Fielding F/X, most of the defensive metrics being developed by teams will be very similar to the theories behind the existing defensive metrics, just tweaked in various ways.
For the fan, defensive metrics are very useful. And when the results support your arguments, I’ve seen you trot out UZR with the best of them.
I haven’t trotted out UZR because I believe its unreliable.
If a metric is unreliable, how is it useful to the fan?
No incorrect. Teams would rather develop their own system than relying on an unreliable metric. Thats why they are spending the money to do so.
Its not about being anti-metric. Its about not relying on something that is unreliable to make judgments on players which, in the eyes of many in baseball, UZR is.