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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees playing with a short bullpen

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Sep 13, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees did not have a full bullpen tonight. Joe Girardi wouldn’t go into detail, but he said Joba Chamberlain and Dave Robertson were not available. Chamberlain said he’s healthy, but he knew he was getting the day off. Haven’t talked to Robertson.

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306 Responses to “Yankees playing with a short bullpen”

  1. JM September 13th, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    Why was Joba getting the day off? I don’t get it.

  2. Laura - I Bleed Blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    Uh oh. So he didn’t use Joba or D-Rob because he was “resting” them.

    My friends, we are in some serious trouble.

  3. indy42 September 13th, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    Overmanagement, thy name is Girardi.

  4. CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    Joba – LOSER DJOKOVIC has won 1 grand slam. He beat Federer because he decided for once, he wasnt going to quit, and he was powering Federer all over the court. Federer is now 29 years old, that’s why he’s getting beaten. Even at 29, Id still put my money on Federer. Djokovic always has been a loser. LOSER! And even though he cost me 2k tonight, Im glad the class act Rafa won! Rafa and Federer, the class of tennis! You must be Serbian to be defending Djokovic; so Ill say this, I mean no offense to Serbians. I love Serbians. Nermanja Vidic is Serbian, one of my favorite players, but he also has a nasty attitude and when he wants to quit, he just takes a red card. Serbians are known for their volatility.

    And PS, there was NO WAY Nadal was losing to Federer in the finals. NO WAY. Nadal is too young and too fit and too powerful to have lost. He would have bullied Federer all over the court and kept Federer pinned at the baseline. And I LOVE FEDERER!

  5. Abe Peterham September 13th, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    Oh, they weren’t available ?
    Would swisher of pitched then?

  6. Tex September 13th, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    I wouldn’t want Jabba pitching in a tight game, anyways.

  7. Yankee Trader September 13th, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    Coors light commercial: “Do you ever play to lose the game?” That line says it all. I don’t want to hear his excuses tonight!!

  8. Benny Blanco September 13th, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    whats really scary is that the yankees could be 0-8 right now.

  9. cs in la September 13th, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    Right, so he gets off just by saying they were “unavailable”?

  10. Laura - I Bleed Blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    “I wouldn’t want Jabba pitching in a tight game, anyways.”

    Sorry, but Joba is a better option than Mitre.

  11. cs in la September 13th, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    Lets hope that Girardi is smarter than all of us.

  12. Doreen September 13th, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    No. Mitre was no more likely to make a mistake than anyone else.

    Gee, Girardi certainly looked like he was trying to lose this game, huh?

    Girardi’s an idiot because Gardner tried to steal third in the wrong situation.

    You all don’t know what is going on there (nor do I). Those pitchers that weren’t available pitched difficult innings in Texas.

    Because you don’t agree with Girardi’s moves doesn’t make him all of a sudden an idiot.

  13. 98NYY September 13th, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    I will sleep tonight but not well…the only glimmer of help in sleeping is knowing this was not a playoff game. That helps a little. Bring up Ring to help with the lefties…Goodnight?

  14. Laura - I Bleed Blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    Joba hasn’t pitched since Friday. If he’s not hurt, why couldn’t he pitch tonight? It’s not like Joba is on some innings limit. He’s not 40 years old. He can pitch every other day and it won’t kill him.

  15. Doreen September 13th, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    Interesting. Because the other night Girardi was an idiot for bringing in Joba in a tight situation. This one was tighter, arguably. I thought Joba was not mentally strong enough for these kinds of innings.

  16. pat September 13th, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    Availablity is becoming an issue.

  17. Matt September 13th, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    Ok so if he is “resting guys, ” then why is he leaving CC in to throw 120 pitches, Jeter in there every day when he is clearly injured, allowing Swisher to play through his injury, pinch hitting Posada twice right after he had the concussion, bunting in a 3-0 count in the 9th inning…

    It’s not unreasonable to say that his mistakes in managing have lost them at least 3, and as many as 5 games in the last week. He left Burnett in after they tied it up on Monday, used Joba in the 8th on Friday which burnt out the entire pen and then they blew it on Saturday as well because of that, then they may have won Sunday’s game if Girardi had someone to relieve Moseley while it was still tied, and they may have won tonight’s game if Girardi gave his offense a chance to face the lesser pitchers in Tampa’s pen.

    After Balfour, the Tampa Bay bullpen is horrible, but let’s just give the game away with Cano, Teixeira, and A-Rod due up in the next half inning.

    Take one more chance and see if you can score with your heart of the order guys coming up, then concede it. Just unbelievable how bad he’s managed.

  18. LGY September 13th, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    Doreen,

    How can you say Mitre is no more likely to make a mistake?

    He is the 2nd worst pitched on the staff and hasn’t pitched in 2 weeks.

  19. blake September 13th, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    If they weren’t available then I guess they weren’t available.

    The Yanks never were going to sweep this series most likely but they need to win at least one game of the 3. 2 of 3 would be great but just winning one allows you leave leave still close to 1st place and an opportunity to get them back at home next week. Either Nova or Hughes or preferably both have to step up in these next two games and the offense is going to have to find a way to score some runs for them.

  20. jacksquat September 13th, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    I’ll be waiting for the injury report on Joba. And I don’t expect he’ll be available this series then.

  21. Matt September 13th, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    And today is the 3rd game in a row that has been affected by Girardi’s boneheaded Friday night decision.

    Looks like it does matter to lose a game like that, because now half the pen is unavailable every night and the other half of it is worn out and not pitching well, so in the end you lose 2 or 3 more games on top of it.

  22. Captain Clutch September 13th, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    That is such bs from Girardi. Joba hasn’t pitched since Friday, yes Friday why is he off today!?!?!?!?!? Robertson didn’t pitch yesterday he should also be available today. You don’t rest guys in Sept and a penant race. How about resting Tex and Cano tomorrow? This is disgusting what Girard is doing. I hope Cashman gets rid of Girardi they need a manger with a brain to manage this team.

  23. IIOIIOIIO September 13th, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    I’m not going to say Girardi is an idiot, in fact I like the guy, but I had questions about his moves tonight before his interview and I’m even more confused now. Is he suggesting there are injuries we don’t know about? Are pitchers asking for these days off? Or is Girardi being overprotective to the point that it’s hurting the team? I don’t know what to think at this point-both the moves and the interview were rather bizarre.

  24. JM September 13th, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    The 8-game winning streak seems like a long, long time ago.

  25. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    Enough with the days off already – holy cow.

  26. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    And he has no business snapping at the media, but I’m glad he did because now he’s going to get called on the carpet.

  27. BBFan September 13th, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    Doreen,

    You make very sensible comments.
    But some here already deceided after the first loss in Texas that Yanks will go 0-9 on this road trip. They are so stupid to write such non-sense.

  28. Laura - I Bleed Blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    “Because you don’t agree with Girardi’s moves doesn’t make him all of a sudden an idiot.”

    No, but it might make him a bad manager. I was all ready to give Girardi the benefit of the doubt, but just saying that Joba and D-Rob “weren’t available” doesn’t cut it; especially since Joba says that he’s not hurt. He pitched on Friday. Why couldn’t he pitch tonight?

    It’s clear to me that Girardi’s trying to save his bullets for later. I understand that; doesn’t mean I have to agree with it.

  29. SJ44 September 13th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    Doreen,

    He’s talking out of both sides of his mouth.

    If your pen is “short”, then stay with Logan longer.

    Or, go to Vazquez.

    Or, tell your GM you need a few fresh arms.

    Your bullpen should never be short with expanded rosters.

    He’s doing a bad job on the bench and with his answers.

    He better figure it out fast.

    There is no excuse for what we are seeing with this team and a lot falls at his feet.

    His job is to get this team going again.

    Let’s see if he can do it.

  30. Yankeefran September 13th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    I have to say that while watching a Yankee post game show after a loss, it depresses me to hear the hero from the other team and then his manager :(

  31. Tex September 13th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    # Doreen September 13th, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    Interesting. Because the other night Girardi was an idiot for bringing in Joba in a tight situation. This one was tighter, arguably. I thought Joba was not mentally strong enough for these kinds of innings.
    ———————————————
    Exactly. you can’t win. If Girardi brought him in every one would have been calling for his hide. He doesn’t bring him in and the same people are calling for his hide for not bringing him in.

  32. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    Doreen, I don’t trust Joba, but he’s a FAR better pitcher than Gaudin. These days off are ridiculous – he’s punting games like it’s no big deal.

  33. blake September 13th, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    “And today is the 3rd game in a row that has been affected by Girardi’s boneheaded Friday night decision.”

    Fridays game does seem to have caused quite the ripple effect.

  34. CB September 13th, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    repost:

    Girardi pushed this bull pen very hard in Texas. And now it’s as if he’s completely over reacting to that move not working out.

    Wood throws 11 pitches. If you know no one is available other than the worst pitchers on the staff, why does he not throw another inning?

    Why does Logan only face one batter?

    And if the plan is to rest players and conserve the pen why are you pushing the most important player on the team to 120 pitches in a game that later on you essentially conced in order to conserve the pen.

    CC should have been taken out after 7 if this is the strategy.

    The notion of conserving a guy like Kerry Wood rather than CC Sabathia is just strange.

  35. m September 13th, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    Gaudin did his job. He wasn’t the problem tonight.

  36. Captain Clutch September 13th, 2010 at 11:15 pm

    The Yanks should bring up anyone from Scranton that is decent. Hitters and pitchers. All of the starters except CC only pitch 5 innings and it has cost the bullpen to get burnt out. But that had nothing to do with tonight’s games though because Joba and Robertson both should of been available. Gaudin and Mitre are terrible. The only reason Mitre is on this team is because he is Girardi’s boyfriend from the Marlins.

  37. blake September 13th, 2010 at 11:15 pm

    Yanks will win the next 5 games (my crystal ball is well over 40 % accurate)

  38. sunny615 September 13th, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    Let me guess

    “They played better than us”
    or
    “Sometimes you just tip your cap”
    or
    “tomorrow we’ll come out and play a new game”
    or
    some other BS comment that will be spewing from one of their mouths.

  39. pat September 13th, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    Ledger_Yankees Gardner apologized to teammates for a steal attempt he called “unneccesary.”

  40. longtimefan September 13th, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    Just watched Girardi on the postgame–the man is a liar and not even a good one. You should first concentrate on winning the game you are playing and worry about tomorrow–tomorrow. This is yet another game where he was out-managed as he was in Texas. And what the hell was Posada and Gardner thinking. Both stupid moves. Why in a game with this much importance would you use your two most least effective pitchers when others WERE available in spite of what he said when questioned. Thick as a brick.

  41. Doreen September 13th, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    SJ44 -

    I thought he said Vazquez was available only if absolutely necessary because of the number of pitches he threw in his start. In fact, I’m sure that’s what he said.

    Girardi does not broadcast all his information. I don’t understand why no one gets that. He’s not gonna talk about the exact reasons people are not available.

    Plus, if Mitre hadn’t pitched in awhile, when the heck was he going to pitch? It was a mistake pitch. And, LGY, I really don’t see why he is any more likely than anyone else in the bullpen to make a mistake. I really don’t. Aside from Mo.

  42. luis September 13th, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    This was the key game of the series. Why he gave up on it is beyond my understanding, it’s inexcusable period. Now he is going to ask two rookies to step up and beat this guys. Maybe they pull it off. But odds are that they won’t. Giving up on this game the way he just did after the effort you got from sabathia is insane, it could be the diference in the postseason…..Damn!! i’m so pissed!!!

  43. SJ44 September 13th, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    Well, they are 0-4 on this roadtrip so far and 1-7 in their last 8 games.

    Those are facts.

    Sometimes, facts get in the way of pom pom waving.

    There is no such thing as a “short” bullpen with expanded rosters.

    You can get more arms in here if he asked for them.

    He’s not being honest with that statement.

    It’s ok though, he can keep losing. At some point, bogus explanations won’t hold up.

    Time to actually win A game on this roadtrip.

    Let’s try that and go from there.

  44. BIG AL September 13th, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    If you play to lose – Then do not be surprised when you do.

    Really Gaudin in the 10th, in trouble, and no one warming up.

    What ever happened to going with your best to get to the closer when it’s time.

    This lose is on Girardi alone, he screwed up the game, and he’s screwing the team with his moves.

    Good night folks, nothing worth saying at this point.

  45. Rich in NJ September 13th, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    You can’t use a sinkerball pitcher like Mitre once every 8 days and expect him to be sharp.

  46. CB September 13th, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    “No. Mitre was no more likely to make a mistake than anyone else. ”

    This is simply not accurate.

    Mitre depends on his ball sinking. He’s is utterly awful when he’s up in the zone.

    He’s hardly pitched. And when sinker ball guys pitch for the first time after infrequent use they are often too strong.

    And when they are too strong they get elevated up in the zone. And when Mitre is up in the zone he’s batting practice.

  47. Yogi Mantle September 13th, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    Girardi has managed very poorly this past week plus. Poor moves on the field.

    Just too many dumb moves that can’t be explained.

    At least they have the best record in baseball… oh wait, not anymore, Girardi helped manage them to lose that.

  48. BBFan September 13th, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    “And if the plan is to rest players and conserve the pen why are you pushing the most important player on the team to 120 pitches in a game that later on you essentially conced in order to conserve the pen.”

    CB, my belief is that Joe was giving CC opportuniy to win 20th game, justifed or not. If he was taken out after 7 innings, CC woudl not have liked it.

  49. Carl September 13th, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    # pat September 13th, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    Ledger_Yankees Gardner apologized to teammates for a steal attempt he called “unneccesary.”

    We have been wanting this guy to be aggressive all year in the right situation. In the wrong situation he wants to push the envelope.

  50. IIOIIOIIO September 13th, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    Every pitcher, including Mo, makes mistakes. Better pitchers make less mistakes and therefore give their team a better opportunity at a shutout inning.

  51. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    SJ brings up good points. For a man working with a short pen, he sure didn’t manage like it.

    He has no consistent philosphy – at all. He doesn’t care at all about winning the division – so why should his players? Why should the fans watch? If Hal and Cash are happy about this or, I should say, not unhappy, I’ll be rather annoyed.

  52. pat September 13th, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    Gardner- I was trying to take away the slider for Kearnsy’s AB

  53. IIOIIOIIO September 13th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    # Carl September 13th, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    # pat September 13th, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    Ledger_Yankees Gardner apologized to teammates for a steal attempt he called “unneccesary.”

    We have been wanting this guy to be aggressive all year in the right situation. In the wrong situation he wants to push the envelope.

    —————–

    Haha, I was thinking the same thing. Young players make mistakes, there’s not much you can do about it now. I’m sure Gardner will learn from this, but it was a pretty ironic situation.

  54. Laura - I Bleed Blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    “And, LGY, I really don’t see why he is any more likely than anyone else in the bullpen to make a mistake.”

    Doreen, you can’t possibly believe that to be the truth. Do you really think that Mitre is as likely to make a mistake as Rivera is? Because Mo has 5 shiny Gold rings that say you’re wrong.

  55. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    I can’t really blame Mitre – Joe could have found a way to use him in Texas.

  56. m September 13th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    CB,

    I think we all would’ve liked to see Wood for another inning, but he likely was going to go 1 inning per pitcher. Sergio would probably pitch more than one.

    Pushing CC in a pitchers duel? CC wouldn’t have it any other way.

  57. blake September 13th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    I also think that Girardi had probably planned to not use certain guys tonight with CC on the hill because he knew CC would give them length (which he did) and also because he knew Nova was pitching tomorrow and will likely only go 5 or 6 innings….that plan was shot when the game went into extra innings and Girardi just refused to stray from it.

  58. TheStraw September 13th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    “Or is Girardi being overprotective to the point that it’s hurting the team?”

    Bingo.

  59. Doreen September 13th, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    CC was also going for a 20th win and Girardi was giving him every opportunity to do that.

  60. PittsburghYankeeFan September 13th, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    Tampa has a far easier schedule than the Yankees for the last 9 games of the season. Let’s see what happens. I don’t think I’ve seen a recent Yankee team go 1-7 in September without clinching in maybe 15 years.

  61. CB September 13th, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    “Fridays game does seem to have caused quite the ripple effect.”

    If all of those pitchers were unavailable then the Texas series was indeed far more damaging than even the three game sweep would have suggested.

    To push the team’s bull pen that hard to the point of knocking out so many pitchers for the Tampa series is very difficult to deal with.

    Texas was extremely damaging to this team if this is the case.

  62. JM September 13th, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    You don’t bring Mitre in in that situation unless unless no one else is available. You are setting him up to fail. He had not pitched in 8 days. I still don’t get why Joba was not available unless he has some minor injury. True Joba gave up the tying run in Texas the other day but I’d rather lose with one of my better bp guys on the mound than one of my worst.

  63. Captain Clutch September 13th, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    Gardner apologized to teammates for a steal attempt he called “unneccesary.”
    ———–

    Did Girardi apologize to the team for giving up another game? Gardner is really terrible at stealing bases and can’t read pitchers at all.

  64. BBFan September 13th, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    “Well, they are 0-4 on this roadtrip”

    Still they have to go 0-5 to meet your prediciton.
    It not going to happen.
    Then you have to start waving the opposite of Pom Poms whatever that is :)

  65. Matt September 13th, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    To the person who said that people would criticize Girardi if he brought in Joba instead of Gaudin… are you out of your freaking mind?

    Joba was the wrong option on Friday because Hughes was available out of the pen and we all know how much better Hughes is out of the pen than Joba. Joba is not the wrong option tonight because Gaudin and Mitre are scrub pitchers who should never appear in a game like tonight unless you have used all of your relievers.

    The situations were completely different, wake up and use your head. Baseball is all about situations, and if you don’t understand that then stop trying to lecture people because you clearly do not understand the game yourself.

  66. SJ44 September 13th, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    Doreen,

    As CB and I are saying, his explanations don’t hold up because it’s inconsistent with what he is doing.

    This is a BIG series. Biggest one of the year to date.

    You PLAN to NOT have a short pen.

    Go with Wood for another inning. Or Logan. Or Joba. Or Javy.

    In the biggest game of the year to date, he had his 13th and 14th pitchers in there with the game on the line.

    Sorry but, that’s a bad job by the manager.

    It’s a results business and he’s not getting results and his non-answers aren’t going bail him out.

  67. Captain Clutch September 13th, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    Someone should check Girardi’s water bottle and make sure it’s water in there and not something else.

  68. pat September 13th, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    Eiland- The bullpen has been carrying a big load and some guys just need a day. This was an important game but it wasn’t do or die. We’ll have our big guns out there tomorrow.

  69. Doreen September 13th, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    Girardi managed the previous games based on the fact that CC can go 7, 8 innings, and that the pitchers after that have been giving him 6 if he’s lucky.

    the man is not a liar. He’s ticked.

  70. Tex September 13th, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    Let me get this straight: you guys wanted Jabba pitching in a 0-0 game in extra innings?

    I understand the other objections over not extending Logan and Wood, but….. head case Jabba???

  71. EA September 13th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    Why did they choose to go into a tailspin this late in the year?

    They can’t hit a lick on the road either

  72. Bill D September 13th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    I believe tonight was Wood’s 3rd appearance in 4 nights. Might speak to why only 11 pitches and one inning.

  73. Ken Phelps September 13th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    The” short bullpen” excuse is outrageous when Logan pitches to only one batter!!!!

  74. ChokeXOnXFailure September 13th, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    What is say for Girardi’s managerial acumen that everyone’s first reaction was, “Why did he send Gardner”?

    When your player’s stupid moves are automatically assumed to be your’s, chances are, you’ve got a pretty bad record to begin with.

    Please, Cubs, overpay him so I don’t have to look at him anymore after this year.

  75. CB September 13th, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    “I think we all would’ve liked to see Wood for another inning, but he likely was going to go 1 inning per pitcher.”

    But he is ok with pushing Mo for two innings in the heat in Texas?

    And then pushing him again to throw another inning the next night?

    Pushing him hard enough to the point where Mo’s stuff was completely absent that second appearance night.

    From this pattern of use, you’d have to infer that the health of Kerry Wood’s arm is much more important than Mo’s.

  76. ChokeXOnXFailure September 13th, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    That should be “What’s it say”. Whoops.

  77. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    This started because Joe went with Joba over Phil on Friday. Now, to be fair, the rain delay hurt because AJ had to come out……………..and I do think Joe has to plan days ahead because CC is the only reliable starter on this staff. Sorry, I’m not crowing Nova after only 4 starts and Phil is a 5 inning pitcher, if that. He really does have to take into account his poor starters when determining which relievers to use in a game

  78. Ken Phelps September 13th, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    Wood only throws 11 pitches? Extend him another inning no??

  79. Matt September 13th, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    And if the pen is extremely short, why are you using one of your more reliable guys in Boone Logan for just one batter?

    Everything Girardi does is contradictory, and that’s why no matter what he says, nobody believes much of any of it.

    So Girardi would rather have Gaudin in to face Matt Joyce, with all of his power, than Logan in to face the singles hitting Sean Rodriguez? Behind Rodriguez was Navarro, who not only is a terrible hitter, but much much worse from the right side.

    So not only did Girardi exhaust his pen by getting Logan out of there, but he got himself less favorable matchups with an inferior pitcher on the mound. He has gotten outmanaged night after night, and when he hasn’t he has overmanaged and beaten himself.

    Girardi is wearing this team down with his inconsistent approach to managing these games, and the effect carries over into subsequent ones. The Friday night debacle has lost him many of the games that follow because his pen hasn’t been as sharp or they haven’t had guys available.

    Not only does Girardi lose the battle, but he loses the war as well. The team is feeling the effects of his mistakes from many games ago still to this point.

  80. EA September 13th, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    “Eiland- The bullpen has been carrying a big load and some guys just need a day. This was an important game but it wasn’t do or die. We’ll have our big guns out there tomorrow.”

    If that’s the attitude of the coaching staff, it explains the decisions of the last few days.

  81. blake September 13th, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    CB,

    That’s kinda what it seems like to me. He saw how Friday’s game affected the rest of that series and was hesitant to go down that road again in this series. Also with Nova pitching tomorrow he knew he’d need the pen in that game because he likely won’t go past 6. As you said earlier though, still no reason why Wood or Logan couldn’t have thrown more since they were already in the games.

  82. MattPat11 September 13th, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    Eiland just said they lost the battle to win the war.

    They better win that war.

  83. Yankeefran September 13th, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    Curry just made a good point. If the offense had scored a run, Gaudin and Mitre wouldn’t have been in there. The offense really needs to pick it up…

  84. TheStraw September 13th, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    Somebody ask Goose Gossage and Sparky Lyle if they think these guys arms need to be rested. 20 pitches for two games in a row is not going to break anybody.

  85. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    “I think he used Sabathia for that many innings because he wanted to get him that 20th win.

    CB, do you honestly think Girardi is playing for the WC? Do you honestly think he wanted to lose this game?

    You’re too smart a baseball fan to believe that.

    I stick to my previous comment, he simply did not want to waste his good arms in a game that could go on forever, and they still lose. Then you come back tomorrow with a bullpen of nobody but Gaudin, Mitre, and Dustin Moseley.

    This team has stopped hitting for whatever reason, and that is killing them right now.”

    Pep, excellent post. Good thoughts emerge when cool heads prevail.

    ****************

    Doreen, don’t drive yourself crazy here because you will just continue to get the same excuses from the naysayers. You are absolutely right that the Joba haters here would have been ballistic if he were brought into the game and a problem occurred. Face it, there’s a group here who live to sit on the side and criticize every move Girardi makes because they pretend they know better about how to manage this team, when they don’t have a clue about what is actually happening with all of the players or why some of the moves are actually made. Pepitone had a great post. It isn’t rocket science to try to figure out some of this stuff. Well obviously it is for the group who lives to criticize Girardi.

    Here’s a clue though. One poster in particular here hates both Gaudin and Joba. If ever they are brought into games he is sure to show up and start to let everyone know how the game SHOULD be managed. It is always a no-win situation with that poster.

    *************

    Thanks for the perspective Pep. And I agree with you that CB is far too intelligent a poster to buy that Girardi is playing for the wild card. A poster not totally understanding all of the manager’s moves is hardly an indication that the manager is playing for the wild card. Again, he knows a lot more about what is actually happening with his players and in his dugout than do fans behind their keyboards. Geesh.

  86. Doreen September 13th, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    Sorry, SJ44.

    I think most people here are being inordinately tough on the manager. I just do.

    Look, if they end up in third place at the end of the season, or not winning a single game in the playoffs, and it can be traced to bad decisions as opposed to an offense that isn’t getting the big hit, I’ll be the first to say I was wrong. And you know I will, because I don’t have a problem saying I was wrong if I was/am.

    I still say if the guys execute, everyone here is very happy. Most everyone.

  87. Matt September 13th, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    I’ll take Joba over Gaudin and Mitre every night. Anyone who says otherwise is beyond stupid.

  88. ChokeXOnXFailure September 13th, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    # EA September 13th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    Why did they choose to go into a tailspin this late in the year?

    They can’t hit a lick on the road either
    —————————————————————-

    The offense would’ve gotten a pass tonight. Price was great, and Maddon sent out his closer and set up man, both of which have been good this year.

    Not scoring on Balfour, however, makes this yet another game where the offense didn’t do their job.

  89. Pepitone September 13th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    Re-post for my good friend CB:

    And if the plan is to rest players and conserve the pen why are you pushing the most important player on the team to 120 pitches in a game that later on you essentially conced in order to conserve the pen.

    CC should have been taken out after 7 if this is the strategy.
    ——————————————————————-
    I think he used Sabathia for that many innings because he wanted to get him that 20th win.

    CB, do you honestly think Girardi is playing for the WC? Do you honestly think he wanted to lose this game?

    You’re too smart a baseball fan to believe that.

    I stick to my previous comment, he simply did not want to waste his good arms in a game that could go on forever, and they still lose. Then you come back tomorrow with a bullpen of nobody but Gaudin, Mitre, and Dustin Moseley.

    This team has stopped hitting for whatever reason, and that is killing them right now.

  90. CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    This game and bad stretch is a culmination of the umpires all year long. You dont think it affects the players and tires them to have to play against two teams every night???

  91. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    Eiland: “This was a big game, obviously, but it wasn’t do or die. Sometimes you lose a battle but you want to win the war.”

    **I’m sorry, but huh?

  92. m September 13th, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    CB,

    I was referring to 1 inning per pitcher tonight.

    The Texas game Rivera threw 24 pitches I believe? I would’ve stayed away from him the next night in that case, but, well, I can’t kill him for that.

    I don’t think he’s weighing anybody’s health over Rivera’s. That’s just how it played out.

  93. Carl September 13th, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    Joe G should have pulled CC because the O wasn’t going to score him any runs.

  94. Captain Clutch September 13th, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    Even AAA Alba is a better option than Mitre. Mitre hasn’t pitched in days, he is a sinker baller and not very good to begin with. When he isn’t pin point with his control he gets tattooed. Girardi can’t say that Joba isn’t available when he hasn’t pitched for 2 days. That is not a good excuse. It just proves to everyone what they already though…. that you aren’t trying to win the division.

  95. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    “Girardi managed the previous games based on the fact that CC can go 7, 8 innings, and that the pitchers after that have been giving him 6 if he’s lucky.

    the man is not a liar. He’s ticked.”

    Yes. And he couldn’t have any way of knowing what he would be getting the next few days and couldn’t burn his pen because of it. But you would have to be able to see and think beyond your nose to come up with that. Christ this forum is myopic. And horridly critical. Always.

  96. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    I read this elsewhere:

    ***Curry and Lorenz are positing that they were thinking they’d need relievers for Nova’s start tomorrow and they hoped that CC would go deep (which he did) tonight. eiland specifically said something like “we expected a low scoring game, but not 0-0″…***

    I love Dave, but come on………………

    I’m sure that’s true about Nova (and Phil), but if so, then is Nova really helping us?

  97. GreenBeret7 September 13th, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    Somebody was trying to find a comparison to Price, but, maybe only a few would remember these pitchers first years. Vida Blue, Chuck Finley and left handed version of Dwight Gooden. Carlton in the early days threw almost as hard, but, almost strictly fastball and slider.

  98. Ken Phelps September 13th, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    Stop with the umpires!!!!! Did the umpire steal third with two outs!! Did the umpire bring In gaudin and mitre??

  99. MG September 13th, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    the bottom line is that Girardi doesn’t really care about winning the division and is getting ready to play the Twins in the 1st round without home field advantage. If he doesn’t care, why should fans? I’m taking a few weeks off and not going to stress (or maybe even watch) the rest of the regular season, what is the point if the manager, as CB has said, lets CC go 120 pitches and then has his two worst pitchers handle the load in extra innings?

  100. ChokeXOnXFailure September 13th, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    # Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    Eiland: “This was a big game, obviously, but it wasn’t do or die. Sometimes you lose a battle but you want to win the war.”

    **I’m sorry, but huh?
    ———————————————

    Translation: “Heeeeeeey, tonight’s no big! The playoffs are a forgone conclusion at this point, so…you know…whatever. We’ll get them tomorrow. Or not. Maybe in the playoffs. We’ll TOTALLY win then.”

  101. Matt September 13th, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    Well if they want to lose the battle to win the war, they have lost both the battle and the war with the way they have managed these games.

    Mismanaging Friday night’s game has lost them 2 or 3 games and maybe more that have followed. Now that you have lost all these games, you can’t be giving away games anymore because you have already lost the war by giving away the previous three.

    If you are going to mess around, you are going to get burnt by it every single time. The Yankees put themselves in this position with the mistakes they have made, and they continue to compound it by contradicting themselves night after night.

  102. Ken Phelps September 13th, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    I agree Betsy but if don’t start nova then who do u start?

  103. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    I’m not saying this was a MUST win, where it’s do or die, but it’s pretty darn close, with 2 weeks left to go. Are the Yankees actually telling their fans that they don’t care about winning?

  104. Doreen September 13th, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    Besides which, this is the $200 million NY Yankees. Even if Girardi is an idiot as many say, it shouldn’t matter because it’s been said that anyone can manage the Yankees.

  105. CB September 13th, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    “do you honestly think Girardi is playing for the WC? Do you honestly think he wanted to lose this game?”

    No. But I honestly have no idea now about what he’s doing because he’s managing the team in a wildly inconsistent manner.

    I’m just very confused right now because I don’t see what the over arching strategy is to take this team down the home stretch.

    And that’s not just Girardi – that’s the team’s personnel moves also.

    If you have so many pitcher’s unavailable in the bull pen then at minimum you bring up pitchers from the minor leagues. Yet that was not done.

    The pieces to this picture aren’t logical and don’t fit.

    It seems like the team is trying to juggle multiple competing demands and they aren’t clearly or effectively setting priorities. That’s leading to confusion and inconsistency that is hurting the team on the field.

  106. Bill D September 13th, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    “Eiland just said they lost the battle to win the war”

    If that’s the way they view it, why let Sabathia go to 120?

  107. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    “Even AAA Alba is a better option than Mitre

    Alba pitched 1 and 1/3 innings yesterday. Mitre was a fresher arm.

  108. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    Ken, there’s no one – Nova has to start……..Of course, it would help if Phil could go more than 5, but he can’t. It sucks, but who else do we have?

    I love Eiland, but I despise his comments

  109. CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    YES! The umpires caused us to bring in Mitre and Gaudin, because the game should have already been over with. We should have had fair plate appearances for our batters, and if we did, we would have scored in 9 innings!

  110. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    Blame Cashman also for letting his manager run amok……

  111. Bronx Jeers September 13th, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    On the brighter side…

    My ability to deal with walk-off losses has grown exponentially on this road trip. Actually I’m getting cozy with defeat in general.

    It’s good practice for the up-coming NBA/NHL follies at The Garden.

  112. m September 13th, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    People acting like Joe G. is putting players in a position to lose. No, he’s putting them in situations to succeed, and they are not.

    Sergio lost this game, yes. But he really was the last resort. The offense was mostly responsible for today’s loss. All they needed was to scratch one loss.

    Didn’t like the sac bunt by Granderson, but after the double plays from before, and if you can get a guy into scoring positon it’s not totally indefensible.

    Better day tomorrow.

  113. Carl September 13th, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    Stop lying to yourselves, Yankees weren’t winning this game. This team just wasn’t going to score any runs.

  114. Matt September 13th, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    Well then you also have to look and wonder why Mitre didn’t pitch in Friday night’s game instead of Gaudin when he had reached 40 or so pitches.

    Mitre hasn’t pitched in a week and a half, it’s on the manager as well to keep his guys sharp by getting them in games.

    Maybe if he used his pitcher more consistently, he would be sharper and have better command for a game like tonight.

    Bringing in a rusty pitcher in a huge game like this is going to give you a predictable result, what do you expect?

  115. Ken Phelps September 13th, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    GreenBeret7 September 13th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
    Somebody was trying to find a comparison to Price, but, maybe only a few would remember these pitchers first years. Vida Blue, Chuck Finley and left handed version of Dwight Gooden. Carlton in the early days threw almost as hard, but, almost strictly fastball and slider.
    ____________________

    Vida blue, steve carlton, left handed dwight gooden…that is some high praise..dwight gooden in 1985..he was WOW!!!! carlton was unhittable…

  116. Doreen September 13th, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    Losing the battle to win the war = you save some guys’ arms and legs (for lack of a better term for the position players) during the regular season so they can go farther in the playoffs.

    Believe it or not, they do have some wiggle room. And wild card is not the most horrible outcome.

  117. CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    Brett Gardner sits with cement in his cleats all the time. Never steals when he is supposed to, and then decides to try and steal 3rd base with 2 outs. Mismanagement at its finest, mismanagement caused by umpires.

  118. ChokeXOnXFailure September 13th, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    # Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    I’m not saying this was a MUST win, where it’s do or die, but it’s pretty darn close, with 2 weeks left to go. Are the Yankees actually telling their fans that they don’t care about winning?
    ————————————————————

    They assume they’ve already gotten in to the playoffs. They are completely ignoring the fact that Boston is playing a weak Seattle team right now, and could very well sweep them, and we are in the midst of a tailspin that shows absolutely no sign of letting up. If we get swept by Tampa, and Boston sweeps Seattle, they’d be 5 games out of the wild card, with 6 games left to play against us.

    The playoffs are not a forgone conclusion. This team feels an awful lot like the Mets team from 2007 that blew a huge lead with 2 weeks left in the season.

  119. TheStraw September 13th, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    The playoffs are not a foregone conclusion now due to this latest losing streak. There are 18 games left. 2/3 of them are against Tampa and Boston. If the Sox are anywhere within six games before those last two series, it gets interesting. If they are within four games, it gets panicky.

  120. Yank1 September 13th, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    Bill D,

    Well if he wanted to go light on his relievers, it looks like they had no choice but to ride CC tonight.

    I guess Eliand prioritized the relievers over CC. I’m also sure they tried to get him a win, whether or not that is the right thing to do is a different question.

  121. Kevin Not That Kevin Brown September 13th, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    Can I ask a question: do we know if anything internally is going on, any discussions, any debate, any visits from Cash a la last season in Atlanta, as to why the team as a whole is hitting so badly, especially with RISP?

    I’m not talking about tonight – two great pitchers each pitching great games – but it is really amazing that the entire team is in a team-wide funk.

  122. Ken Phelps September 13th, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    was rivera available?? If the yankees had taken lead…would he have pitched??

  123. CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    PeteAbe

    #Jets completed more passes to that Mexican TV reporter than they did against the Ravens about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck

    I really cant stand that guy. I CANT WAIT for the day that piece of …. eats one too many McDonalds hamburgers and suffers a ……

  124. Tar September 13th, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    Even after reading this I don’t understand Gaudin and Mitre.

    It was nice to seem him go to Wood, and I understand Logan, but after that he lost me.

    If you knew you were short why the fast trigger with Wood and Logan?

    But I am not going to dwell on it.

    What a pitching dual we seen tonight. They were both were incredible.

    A long time ago, sitting behind home plate, I saw Vida Blue pitch a masterpiece. It was almost magical. I got that same feeling tonight.

    Price was awesome, CC was (IMO) a little better. I just thought Price was slightly lucky at times. There was no luck involved when it came to CC’s game. No bias from this Yankee fan HAHA.

    Posada helped by calling a hell of a game.

    I know everybody is pissed off and natural urge is to find somebody (Giradi) to blame. But hopefully in the end it will just be a memorable game that was of no consequence to the Yankees 2010 Championship.

    Goodnight all.

    OBTW

    Rays fans suck and should be embarrassed at their attendance tonight!

  125. Yank1 September 13th, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    Cashman and Girardi work in tandem, they have a great relationship.

    I imagine they are on the same page in all this.

  126. Matt September 13th, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    So how likely is Granderson to hit into a double play in a 2-0 count with his speed and a big hole on the right side?

    It made no sense whatsoever, but some people will defend everything Girardi ever does because he wears the Yankee uniform.

    Like the announcers were even saying, Balfour had to throw a strike because he figured Granderson was bunting in that at bat. What do you know, he got a fastball right down the middle and gave away an at bat on the bunt.

    Granderson has the power to put the Yankees ahead on an extra base hit or a home run, the speed to avoid a double play, and is a big pull hitter with a huge hole on the right side of the infield. The count is 2-0 and the pitcher has to throw a strike or the next hitter could bunt the runner to 3rd where he can score on an out.

    But Girardi chose to totally give away the at bat by not taking a pitch, not green lighting him for the 2-0 cookie, but by bunting.

    The Yankees most likely lowered their chances of scoring in that inning by bunting in a 2-0 count. Let that sink in for a second.

  127. CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    That Mexican TV reporter was commissioned by the Patriots to try and screw us over.

  128. CB September 13th, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    ““Eiland just said they lost the battle to win the war”

    If that’s the way they view it, why let Sabathia go to 120?”

    This is exactly right. It’s completely inconsistent.

    CC is the most important player on this team in terms of winning the world series.

    You can’t push him to 120 stressful pitches and then just use the two worst pitchers on the staff.

    You have to take him out after 100 pitches or so and then just take your chances with Mitre and Gaudin.

    If you’re willing to put the game in Mitre and Gaudin’s hands to protect the arms in the bull pen you should be willing to put the game in their hands to in the 8th to save the arm of the guy who is by far the most important pitcher on the team.

    The pitchers who have been physically pushed the most the past week have been CC and Mo while guys like Wood and Joba have been protected.

  129. Ken Phelps September 13th, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:36 pm
    Brett Gardner sits with cement in his cleats all the time. Never steals when he is supposed to, and then decides to try and steal 3rd base with 2 outs. Mismanagement at its finest, mismanagement caused by umpires.
    ________________

    CR i love you man..this post actually begins to make sense…then you stick in the umpires at the end…made me laugh out load

  130. BBFan September 13th, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    Tomorrow will be better than today.
    Nova will pitch himself into playoffs rotation contention.
    Good night.

  131. CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    Yeah, I stuck in the umpires just for kicks :lol: Im glad you got a laugh at it!

  132. ChokeXOnXFailure September 13th, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    # CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    Brett Gardner sits with cement in his cleats all the time. Never steals when he is supposed to, and then decides to try and steal 3rd base with 2 outs. Mismanagement at its finest, mismanagement caused by umpires.
    ———————————————————-

    This doesn’t make even the smallest bit of sense. I usually ignore your comments, because they’re asinine, attention-seeking garbage, but this one…is one of the most insanely idiotic things I think I’ve ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent reply were you even CLOSE to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this board is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  133. m September 13th, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    *scratch one run

  134. ZMAN September 13th, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    CR9,

    Why blame Pete? He is a Boston homer and isin’t afraid to show it.

    Blame the NY media for also being homers for the other team. Our reports should be taking shots at the Pats/Red Sox like Boston reporters do to the NY teams. Yet our reporters seem to enjoy failure of our teams and like when our rivals do well because it exacerbates the failure.

    Basically, the classy and dignified NY media join with the Pete Abe’s of the world to knock down NY teams!

  135. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:41 pm

    Betsy, you are questioning whether Nova is helping us because it’s not known how many innings he’ll be able to go tomorow? Or because Girardi is trying to have a good bullpen available in the event that he doesn’t go deep? That’s where it really shows that you fans who spend your life bitching never take the time to think before you complain. Nova has been very good for us, but just like with Phil, you can’t know ahead of time what is going to happen so you have to be prepared for any eventualities. It was actually much more responsible for Girardi to manage the way he did tonight knowing that CC would give long innings and taking the shot that between Gaudin and Mitre the job would get done rather than burning his other guys and extending the game for God knows how many innings and having nobody available for the next two days if he needs them.

    The man knows more about managing in his little finger than this entire forum put together, and comments like the ones I heard tonight just verify that.

  136. raymagnetic September 13th, 2010 at 11:41 pm

    May I just ask which pitcher on the 40 man are they supposed to call up to help out in the pen?

    The only pitchers I see are Noesi, Brackman, and Romulo Sanchez.

    Raise your hand if you think any of those guys can be called up to the big leagues and help out right now.

  137. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:41 pm

    Darn, now I’m starting to get down on Eiland, although he’s probably just covering for Joe.

    It would be hilarious (sort of) if the Yankees played themselves out of the playoffs.

  138. CB September 13th, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    “Vida Blue, Chuck Finley and left handed version of Dwight Gooden. Carlton in the early days threw almost as hard, but, almost strictly fastball and slider.”

    GB7-

    I brought that up before. He just has an amazing arm from the left side. Other than Randy Johnson that might be the best fastball I’ve seen from a LH pitcher in my time.

    Those are some names you came up with. I saw Carlton towards the end of his career – still had an unbelievable slider but didn’t have the same heat.

    He has an electric, dominating fastball. Chapman throws even harder obviously but not nearly with the same command.

  139. Bronx Jeers September 13th, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    *scratch one run

    —————————-

    I saw that.

    Losses are creeping into our subconscious. :wink:

  140. Pepitone September 13th, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    Again, he knows a lot more about what is actually happening with his players and in his dugout than do fans behind their keyboards. Geesh.
    ——————————————–
    Totally agree, and thanks for the kind words, Trisha.

    Look, I don’t blame anybody who’s upset right now. We all are Yankee fans, some of us (like me) have been fans for close to 50 years. I have seen things that would make some of the posters here slit their wrists. But, I quit trying to play manager years ago. When I was in the Van Nuys Air National Guard, I was privileged to get to know quite a few ballplayers who would later be Major Leaguers. Players like Doug DeCenses, Rick Dempsey, Tom House (relief pitcher for Atlanta who caught Hank Aaron’s 715th home run), and many others who played for years in the minors. They all told me – after my numerous complaints about managers, players, and what not – that I don’t know what goes on behind the scenes, and that if I did, I’d change my view. And you know what, they were right.

    Managers make mistakes and managers are called on the carpet for things they have no control over. Just like coaches in other sports. If Girardi doesn’t get the job done this year then he’ll probably not be re-signed. I think it would be a huge mistake, but the Yankees aren’t very patient when it comes to things like that.

    That is my opinion on the matter, but it is certainly not the absolute final word on the subject. These guys could be right, maybe Joe isn’t the right manager for this team, I don’t know. But, I am certainly opposed to all the teeth baring, and vicious sniping going on towards him, and the players themselves.

    We still have a few games to play, let’s see how it all plays out before we start firing, and replacing, the whole roster.

  141. CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    ZMAN – Yes, I know all that. I was the first one on here to point all that out. Bostonians are like Republicans (Im not talking about their political affiliation, they are democrats) and New Yorkers are like Democrats. Bostonians all band together and stick by one another and lick each other clean. While New Yorkers fight and fight amongst each other and tear each other down. In Boston, they dont need showers, because they have each other to clean themselves!

    But I despise Pete, he is the biggest hypocritical phony and deserves worse than any criminal in the justice system right now. I despise that guy with every ounce my being. I cant wait until next Spring Training, I;ll have to travel down to Fort Myers just to see him.

  142. raymagnetic September 13th, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    Maybe Girardi thought the Yankees could scratch out 1 run and therefore he let CC go for as long as he could?

    Decisions aren’t made in a vacuum. If the Yankees could have possibly scratched out a run in the 9th then you only have to use Mo.

    Turns out the Yankees couldn’t score and maybe his plans went downhill from there.

  143. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    “Tomorrow will be better than today.
    Nova will pitch himself into playoffs rotation contention.
    Good night.”

    Thanks BBFan. Posters like you and Doreen and Mel and Pepitone make it worth posting here.

    Onward and upward.

    :)

  144. ZMAN September 13th, 2010 at 11:44 pm

    They wanted CC to try and get #20

    They also wanted to win the game… if they scored in the 8th or 9th, they would have gone CC to MO.

    Since that didn’t happen, they decided to give it one attempt with Wood, then “lose the battle to win the war”.

    They are still trying to win games, when they are there for the taking, but they didn’t consider a tie game on the road as game they had a high probability of winning. He saw how the first Texas game ruined the whole series. Robertson was gassed the next night and ineffective, MO was gassed the next night, Logan had command issues, and no one was available in the series finale.

  145. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:44 pm

    And raymagnetic too.

    :)

  146. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    And ZMAN too.

    :)

  147. Doreen September 13th, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    It is inconsistent to you, us, whoever, because we’re not sitting in the clubhouse with injury/trainer reports and whatever other information they have that we don’t.

    Each of the people playing this game has different limits, different abilities. How many times have we heard that CC is a horse? How many times have I read here that pitchers are babied? How can people on the one hand say he hasn’t allowed his relief pitchers to throw enough (Wood, Logan, whoever) and on the other hand complain that he allowed the one pitcher on his staff who is able to throw a lot of pitches pitch????

    I get that everyone is disappointed by all these tough losses. But everyone is looking for ulterior motives and skeletons in closets.

  148. CB September 13th, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    “May I just ask which pitcher on the 40 man are they supposed to call up to help out in the pen? ”

    At this time of the year – if the team is that desperate for arms in the bull pen – the 40 man roster issues are secondary.

    You DFA guys if needed to get guys up to the big league club. You put Romulo Sanchez on the 60 day DL if needed to clear a roster spot.

    Royce Ring should be here then for example. Noesi should be here. Bring up Phelps, Pendelton or Mitchell. Call up Brackman.

    There’s no excuse to not have arms in September if the situation is that critical.

  149. rosario September 13th, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    Trish Check your email

  150. TheStraw September 13th, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    Trisha-

    One night of complaining and I’m off your list?

  151. Doreen September 13th, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    I’m watching the Joe Girardi show now. And Girardi just finished saying that of course you want to finish first, you want HFA, especially because this team plays very well at home. But he said you don’t sacrifice the health of your players for HFA. Getting into the playoffs healthy is his #1 goal. If they make it into the playoffs and players end up not being able to play, what good is that?

  152. EA September 13th, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    They didn’t stretch Wood more because they might need him tomorrow to protect a lead.

    Joe saw what the first Texas game did and doesn’t want to repeat it.

    Eliand’s quote says it all, it is important, but not must-win. Only for the fans it is a must-win.

  153. GreenBeret7 September 13th, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    The comparison to Blue, Gooden and Finley were more because of their styles and theor main three pitches…big fastball, curve and changeup. Carlton’s curve morphed into that nasty as Hell slider. He threw very hard with the Cards and right about the time he was traded to Philly for Rick Wise. The young version of Frank Tanana was close, but, that didn’t last long.

    I saw a Koufax reference, but, not really. Koufax had that 100 MPH fastball that would rise and the nasiest hard overhand curve that I ever saw. If you remember Bert Blyleven’s, pitcher it about 10-13 MPH faster. Koufax threw everything hard. If he had stayed healthy, al Downing would have been in the “Poor Man’s Koufax” range. Downing was that good. Guidry was a Carlton clone with a fastball between Carlton and Koufax for a few years.

  154. CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    The best way to manage this team is pay the umpires to treat us fairly. However, you cant even trust them that they have enough dignity to honor any monetary agreement.

  155. Carl September 13th, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    Pushing Swish, BG, and the BP didn’t help us win a damn thing against Texas and Baltimore. Yankees don’t score runs, we don’t win games. That simple.

  156. TheStraw September 13th, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    Doreen-

    I am not sure why he is taking it for granted that they are already there.

  157. YANKEES September 13th, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    HATE THESE GAMES. Ugh, heartbreaking.

  158. LGY September 13th, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    A part of me honestly hopes at this point the Yankees fall out of the division race.

    Girardi is resting half his team, but not even the most important once in CC. He played the past week completely half-way and has backfired in the worst way possible.

    The Yankees are unlikely to win the division at this point. They have a 35% chance of winning it, mostly because of the schedule differential.

    There is no point in hanging around and doing everything halfway.

  159. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    What makes Joe think his team isn’t going to be healthy or sound? He sounds like he’s afraid to play them…………….

  160. Rich in NJ September 13th, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    So has Girardi been fired yet?

  161. CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    Maybe we can all band together and start a fundraiser to pay the umpires not to cheat us?? Good idea??

    If we get fair umpiring, we’ll win. 100% guarantee.

  162. CB September 13th, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    “It is inconsistent to you, us, whoever, because we’re not sitting in the clubhouse with injury/trainer reports and whatever other information they have that we don’t.”

    Doreen-

    If that’s the case then there’s no point in discussing much of anything pertaining to the team other than saying it’s an optimally efficient club that makes near perfect decisions.

    We never have all of the information – that’s a given. So no one should say anything, post anything and just go along with whatever happens and gladly agree.

    So if the pitching coach says the bull pen was short tonight with multiple guys unavailable it should make sense to us that it was the right decision not to bring up more pitchers from the minors and to instead play with a short roster despite it being september. Ok.

  163. Ken Phelps September 13th, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    should vince young get reggie bush’s heisman?? i say no…

  164. Ken Phelps September 13th, 2010 at 11:52 pm

    CR can you name one bad call that went against the yankees tonight??

  165. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:52 pm

    Well, tomorrow is another day…………….but boy, it’s probably more of the same.

  166. Pat M. September 13th, 2010 at 11:52 pm

    I’m not going to go on a tirade because the club will turn it around, but the bottom line is, they have lost four games straight for the first time this season….And 3 of the 4 four were the walk off variety which stings……Maybe Joe Giradi has a slightly different perspective of the bigger picture than what we do……Tough stretch for The Skipper & the club…..

  167. raymagnetic September 13th, 2010 at 11:52 pm

    CB,

    Do you really believe that the pitching situation is so critical that they should be DFA’ing guys to bring up more pitchers with 20 games left in the season?

  168. CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    Maybe the Yankees should commit part of their less than $200 million payroll to paying the umpires to be fair all season, and then throw in a 100% bonus if they are fair in the playoffs?

  169. CB September 13th, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    “But he said you don’t sacrifice the health of your players for HFA. Getting into the playoffs healthy is his #1 goal.”

    Nick Swisher.

    Brett Gardner (who slid head first into second base and could easily have jammed his wrist).

  170. Tank September 13th, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    “Pushing Swish, BG, and the BP didn’t help us win a damn thing against Texas and Baltimore. Yankees don’t score runs, we don’t win games. That simple.”

    And for people who say “They are facing Lee/Price, I can’t get on the Yankees for not scoring”, then what are we going to do in the playoffs when we face these exact same pitchers? They are going to have to score off these types of guys if we want to get to where we want to go.

  171. Pepitone September 13th, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    If you have so many pitcher’s unavailable in the bull pen then at minimum you bring up pitchers from the minor leagues. Yet that was not done.
    —————————————————
    CB -

    That’s a good point, but did anyone ask Girardi that question? Also, can they bring up pitchers at this point in the season?

    Like I said earlier in your question about keeping Sabathia in the game that long; could it not be that he was hoping the Yanks would put up a run for him, and let him finally get that 20th win?

    I believe, though I have no evidence for this, that he was hoping his offense would start up enough to push at least one run across. It didn’t happen, so he decided not to use up a lot of arms in a game they most likely were not going to win anyhow.

  172. Ken Phelps September 13th, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    GreenBeret7 September 13th, 2010 at 11:48 pm
    The comparison to Blue, Gooden and Finley were more because of their styles and theor main three pitches…big fastball, curve and changeup. Carlton’s curve morphed into that nasty as Hell slider. He threw very hard with the Cards and right about the time he was traded to Philly for Rick Wise. The young version of Frank Tanana was close, but, that didn’t last long.

    I saw a Koufax reference, but, not really. Koufax had that 100 MPH fastball that would rise and the nasiest hard overhand curve that I ever saw. If you remember Bert Blyleven’s, pitcher it about 10-13 MPH faster. Koufax threw everything hard. If he had stayed healthy, al Downing would have been in the “Poor Man’s Koufax” range. Downing was that good. Guidry was a Carlton clone with a fastball between Carlton and Koufax for a few years.

    ——————–

    great post…yeah..that price kid is pretty good. That was an impressive start..cc and price..two man race for cy young..no??

  173. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    So are ok with the Yankees withholding Joba and Robertson because of Nova (and Phil)? I don’t quite get Robertson – Joba yes, because if Nova doesn’t go deep, Joba would come in, but Robertson is a late inning reliever. He’s not a guy that will come in and pitch two innings in relief of Nova or Phil.

  174. CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    Ken – Ah, I saw a bunch of squeezejobs on CC, but I had the game on the smaller TV while watching the Jets game on the large TV. Im pretty sure I saw Gaudin get some cheapos while being cheated on other pitches. Perhaps it was a fairly called game. I didnt see anything too egregious, but then again, it was on the smaller TV and I wasnt paying 100% attention to it. Jets and Rafa Nadal took priority.

  175. Carl September 13th, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    # Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    What makes Joe think his team isn’t going to be healthy or sound? He sounds like he’s afraid to play them…………….

    Then why are the players bitching about it then? You think Mantle would go up to a coach on the bench and say my wrist is hurting? Would he tell Joe G, we need to be smart about my knee? No. That’s what Swish and BG did.

    Jeter plays hurt but gets ripped for it. A-Rod fights with Joe to stay in the lineup. Everyone else? Cowards.

  176. ericns1 September 13th, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    If Joe G is in Chi Town next year Mitre is probably with him

  177. JM September 13th, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    GB7,

    I saw Carlton pitch many times over the years, including three or four in 1972, when he won 27 games for an absolutely horrific Phillies team (I believe the team as a whole won 59 or 60 games that year). What an amazing pitcher he was, simply electric stuff.

    On a side note, my friends and I used to wait after games to try to get autographs; it was a lot simpler in those days, not as much security, etc. Lefty was the only one who would not sign. He had quite a gruff reputation, to put it mildly.

  178. Yogi Mantle September 13th, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    The decision to bunt Granderson seemed odd to me. I understand he is trying to manufacture a run, but they haven’t been doing a good job this whole season with that, what makes him think it would work tonight?

    If Girardi didn’t have the arms during a time when the rosters are expanded, then he needs to answer the question why are you short in the bullpen. Thing is, he is managing poorly, and doesn’t handle it well when he gets called on it. Girardi doesn’t handle being questioned on stupid moves very well. He had been contentious with the media when he first came up, he had toned that down, but now seems to be reverting to his old ways.

    Its understandable that some of the players are unavailable. Swisher is hurting, Gardner is hurt, but some of the moves he is making stink of being a bit complacent. He may be saying that he wants to win the division, but his actions are speaking otherwise.

  179. Ken Phelps September 13th, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    if the bullpen was so short..why only one batter for boone logan and wood only 11 pitches..i mean as sooon as logan was out..they pinch hit with a lefty so theyankees would have not have hda the advantage anyway

  180. CB September 13th, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    “Do you really believe that the pitching situation is so critical that they should be DFA’ing guys to bring up more pitchers with 20 games left in the season?”

    Absolutely. I would DFA guys off the 40 man in a second rather than play short in September. Chad Huffman and Steve Garrison do not keep you from making moves to support the big league club in september if they themselves can’t be trusted to be called up and perform.

    And at minimum there is absolutely no excuse to not put Romulo Sanchez on the 60 man DL if he’s hurt to open up a 40 man roster spot. None.

  181. G. Love September 13th, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    What’s going on is we’re seeing for the first time what kind of manager Girardi is when the team is struggling.

    Not slumping or being streaky.

    Struggling.

    This team normally breaks up losing streaks on it’s own. Right now, it’s unable to do this even with the stopper on the mound throwing 0′s all night.

    Girardi’s flaws as a manager are showing just like the player’s flaws show more clearly when they struggle.

    He’s a good manager when people play to the back’s of their baseball cards.

    When they don’t, he panics, second guesses himself, tries to outwit the game, sends messages, etc.

    The team is falling apart and giving away the division and the captain of the ship isn’t helping matters.

    The only way out of this is Arod, Tex and Cano bashing the ball the next few games.

    The sad thing is that shouldn’t be such a tall order, but I think Girardi’s handling of Arod cooled him off.

    As for Tex, the guy used to be a .300 hitter.

    He gets enough money to never have to worry about a thing the rest of his life and he turns into the bad version of Giambi who could only walk or hit HR’s/warning track blasts.

    It’d be nice to see him hit a double once in awhile.

  182. pat September 13th, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    “What makes Joe think his team isn?t going to be healthy or sound? He sounds like he?s afraid to play them?????.”

    Until yesterday you would have questioned why Gardner was sitting if they sat him a day or 2. Maybe Girardi knows things you don’t.

  183. Ken Phelps September 13th, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    the bunt with granderson wasn’t great for a couple reasons..first you got a rookie colin curtis on deck…two he had 2-0 count. maybe he can work a walk or get a pitch he can drive…bunts in the end are safe plays because it puts pressure on the d…but basically you were giving the rays two free outs there in order to gain a base..

  184. GreenBeret7 September 13th, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    CB, I’m not saying that he’s their equal….not for another 7-8 years, but, Price has that kind of arm. Carlton in his early years had a fastball that probably rivaled Gibson, but, like Guidry, I think that slider probably drained some of the steam from it. There have been some great lefties over the years, but, none had those types of fastballs. Jiriano was a couple of MPHs slower when he first showed up, but, he’s lost a lot with injuries and he’s still outstandly good.

    The one thing that I always remember both Ernie banks and Billy Williams saying about Koufax’ fastball was that when it came across the plate it was rising and it hissed. The ball had so much rotation and speed that they could hear threads cutting through the air. The only fastball they had heard do that of Ryan’s.

  185. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    If Joe knew he had a short pen, then why the quick hooks with Wood and Logan?

  186. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    :)

    And Straw too. Actually I didn’t see you complaining. I was just going with what I was reading in this thread.

    ***********************

    Pepitone, this really has nothing to do with whether or not Joe Girardi is the right manager for this team next season. As usual people have their heads up their butts and lash out crazily when they can’t figure things out for themselves.

    And personally, I will live no matter who manages the Yankees next year. The most frustrating thing is when the fans who cannot apply perspective day after day convince the rest of the jittery masses that something should have been done another way, when they don’t have a clue about why things were done and more distressingly can’t begin to think their ways clear to why something may have happened.

    There are extremely rational reasons for a lot of things being done. But you have to be able to apply a more macro perspective to get there. Fans are either game conscious or season conscious. Those who live and die by each game – and don’t kid yourself, there are many many here who live that way – can only see what makes sense for that game. They don’t have the ability to think beyond that. Well that’s an extremely limiting way to think since the season is 162 games long. A manager must have a macro perspective and he also must be able to be thinking three games ahead, if you will, in the decisions he makes.

    That doesn’t fly on a “what have you done for me lately” forum.

    Again, I am SO grateful for the company of those of you who know how to apply perspective.

    Thanks for that.

  187. Red Lobster September 13th, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    “So are ok with the Yankees withholding Joba and Robertson because of Nova (and Phil)? I don’t quite get Robertson – Joba yes, because if Nova doesn’t go deep, Joba would come in, but Robertson is a late inning reliever. He’s not a guy that will come in and pitch two innings in relief of Nova or Phil.”

    If Nova goes 5, probably Joba-Robertson-Wood for the 6th-8th.

    Joba rarely goes multiple innings. I don’t know if he’s pitched 2 innings all year.

    Robertson was worked hard first 2 days in Texas… he deserves a 2nd day off. Joba? No idea.

  188. CR9 September 13th, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    Ken – I agree, the Grandy bunt was just stupidity. Book managing instead of common sense. Balfour is a walk machine. He’s not any good. A 2-0 count, he’s more likely to throw 2 balls before 3 strikes. But such is life.

  189. Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    Carl, I’m not getting into that with you. If you want to question Swish and Gardner, that’s up to you – I have absolutely no problem if they said they can’t play. I’m not going to judge them because they’re hurt.

  190. Ken Phelps September 13th, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    it felt also like the game really turned momentum wise on gardner’s steal of third..that was just a killer….no giradi’s fault there because he has got a green light

  191. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    “Until yesterday you would have questioned why Gardner was sitting if they sat him a day or 2. Maybe Girardi knows things you don’t.”

    Aha!

    And pat too.

    :)

  192. Red Lobster September 14th, 2010 at 12:00 am

    Girardi is not forthcoming at all about injuries. In fact, if Cashman didn’t blab him out, there would be a few injuries early in the year that we would have never heard about.

  193. Nick in SF September 14th, 2010 at 12:00 am

    Nobody here should be questioning any moves Girardi makes because he’s the manager of the Yankees.

    In fact, we shouldn’t really even be allowed to comment on them.

    LoHud should dismantle the comments section because it’s hurting the Yankees chances to win games.

    Instead commenters should be allowed to post one of two emoticons. The first would be a nodding head and the second would be waving pom-poms.

    That would help the Yankees.

  194. m September 14th, 2010 at 12:00 am

    I was confused by Carl’s post. I think he was kidding. Because I don’t think he seriously thinks those two are cowardly.

  195. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:01 am

    Excuse me Pat? I have no idea what you’re talking about.

  196. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:01 am

    yeah when granderson bunts one out..colin curtis up two outs..two free outs and you gain second base..I am sure the rays would have taken that considering the lead off man got on..however to be fair if granderson had swung away and hit into a double play people would have been screaming..

  197. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:02 am

    Ryan Kalish has 3 more home runs right now than Cervelli will ever have in his career. Is Cervelli ever going to hit another home run?? Is Berkman ever going to hit a Yankee HR?

  198. raymagnetic September 14th, 2010 at 12:03 am

    CB,

    If you put pitchers on the 40 man roster now when you don’t absolutely have to, then you do you do when you need to protect guys in the rule 5 draft?

    Also Mitre and Gaudin are on the team as middle relievers who can pitch multiple innings and they were both available. If they can’t serve the role they’re supposed to on the team then why are they even on the team.

    I’m not saying Girardi is making all the right moves, but I can understand why he’s made some of the moves he has.

  199. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:03 am

    Ken – No. Even if Grandy hit into a DP, it would have been the right move. Im getting so sick and tired of the nobody out bunt to move the runner to 2nd. It hardly ever works. And on a 2-0 count against a weasel like Balfour, it’s terrible.

  200. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:03 am

    quick question nick how does on “nod a head” or “wave a pom pom” on a computer..is there an ap for that??

  201. Carl September 14th, 2010 at 12:03 am

    # Betsy September 13th, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    Carl, I’m not getting into that with you. If you want to question Swish and Gardner, that’s up to you – I have absolutely no problem if they said they can’t play. I’m not going to judge them because they’re hurt.

    Then why are you asking if Joe G is afraid to play his guys? You don’t make any sense. If they are gonna cry and moan about injuries, they aren’t playing.

  202. Pat M. September 14th, 2010 at 12:03 am

    GB…..Carlton had whiffleball movement, except he threw 95

  203. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    GL, that’s not the kind of manager I want for my team. Great- he can manage when everything goes right.

    I still think this team is very capable of turning it around, but until the manager can start instilling some confidence in them, they won’t. He tinkers with everything; he has to make some move, any move – he can’t leave well enough alone. He’s

  204. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    GL, that’s not the kind of manager I want for my team. Great- he can manage when everything goes right.

    I still think this team is very capable of turning it around, but until the manager can start instilling some confidence in them, they won’t. He tinkers with everything; he has to make some move, any move – he can’t leave well enough alone. He’s

  205. Nick in SF September 14th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    If LoHud Yankee fans were serious about helping the team, they would demand the creation of nodding heads and pom-poms emoticons.

    Why do so few of you really care?

  206. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    yeah..agree. I at first was for bunting however I did not realize colin curtis was on deck..plus with the 2-0 count bunting helps the pitcher there..

  207. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    CB -

    Why get snippy with me?

    Thing is, it’s not all on Joe Girardi. That’s my main argument. I don’t agree with all the moves he makes; but I don’t expect perfection, either. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt, because I know what I don’t know. And the fact of the matter is that if the team is hitting like it’s supposed to, they are probably winning 2 of 3 in Texas at least and they have beaten David Price before, but I would still call tonight a draw.

    I also think people have decided the Girardi doesn’t know what he’s doing just because we don’t know what he’s doing. All season long he’s been praised for his bullpen management. And now he’s being questioned for his bullpen management. So I see inconsistencies here.

    He’s working with a pitcher AJ that he really can’t count on at all. Another pitcher who was supposed to give him innings that has turned into a 3-inning pitcher (Javy). A rookie (Nova) and a young pitcher who is on an innings limit and all that that brings (Hughes). If Pettitte comes back healthy, he’s at least got 2 dependable starters and two starters that at least give some hope (Hughes & Nova). He’s stuck with AJ.

    He’s got players who are banged up as all players are by the end of the season, and then a few more who are really banged up.

    I think the guy’s doing the best he can.

    My issue is not with the manager, but the guys in the lineup who are not hitting. I’m not even upset with the bullpen – they’ve been fantastic and it doesn’t surprise me that they’ve hit a bump in the road.

    So there’s plenty to discuss, as long as people can leave the idea that Girardi is actively trying to lose games by the wayside. That, to me, doesn’t make sense. I’ll concede that he may be more “okay” with the wild card than 90% of the posters here, but he’s not “trying” for the wild card.

  208. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    me nodding head..waving pop pom

  209. Yank 97 September 14th, 2010 at 12:05 am

    “He’s a good manager when people play to the back’s of their baseball cards.

    When they don’t, he panics, second guesses himself, tries to outwit the game, sends messages, etc. ”

    How is that different than what Joe Torre did in his last 4 years here?

    I imagine most managers get like this when things are not going well.

    Girardi can’t win though – he manages the first Texas game like it’s a playoff game and gets killed for doing so. He manages tonight conservatively, and gets killed.

    After a while, it’s not on the manager, the team just needs to start playing to its elite talent and make the manager moot…. like they have done most of the last 2 years. They have superior talent to the field and they need to start proving it.

  210. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:06 am

    quick question..did a yankee reach third base today? i think not? hard to win when you cant get to thrid base…

  211. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:06 am

    Carl, I’m talking about Alex in particular……………enough with resting the guy. Either he’s healthy enough to play or he’s not. Anyway, I was responding to a post that speculated that Joe was trying to keep his players healthy and sound going into October instead of going all out to win the division. Well, most of his players are healthy and sound – ok, not Gardner and Swish – so play them.

  212. m September 14th, 2010 at 12:06 am

    I just saw the highlight of Brignac’s walkoff. It wasn’t a cookie by Sergio. It was an inside pitch that Brignac turned on. That was more of a result of Brignac starting his bat early than Sergio not pitching in 8 days.

  213. Carl September 14th, 2010 at 12:07 am

    # m September 14th, 2010 at 12:00 am

    I was confused by Carl’s post. I think he was kidding. Because I don’t think he seriously thinks those two are cowardly.

    They aren’t even injured. They are hurt. If I typed injuries, I’m wrong. What did Swish’s MRI say? No damage just inflammation. Same with BG. Get your ass on the field then.

    Jeter has 2 messed up Knees and a bad wrist and he plays. I guess that’s just what the great ones do.

  214. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:07 am

    its just not clear why some guys were not available thats all…none of the main bull pen guys pitched yesterday…just hard to figure the game was depending on gaudin and mitre..but if guys were not available what are you going to do??

  215. stuart a September 14th, 2010 at 12:07 am

    bullcrap. giradi’s bullsh-t. his excuse is nonsense…

    again clowns they pitched there 2 worst pitchers in this game. but pitched wood and logan.

    btw the clown said logan is not available for all 3 games even though he maybe faced 2 batters.

    so girardi allowed his only reliable starter to pitch a game that they needed to win, with a rookie pitching tommorrow, knowing they really needing CC to pitch a shutout which he did and they still lost……..

    screw girardi and his bullsh-t… fire his ass. and for the media that let’s him get away with we dealt with it, not avaolable crap.

    what a friggin joke…………

  216. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 12:08 am

    “Girardi’s flaws as a manager are showing just like the player’s flaws show more clearly when they struggle.

    He’s a good manager when people play to the back’s of their baseball cards.

    When they don’t, he panics, second guesses himself, tries to outwit the game, sends messages, etc. ”

    See I think the opposite here. You have a manager who has had to try to win games with a rotation consisting of CC Sabathia. Because Andy has been on the DL and his other starters have been inconsistent, he has had to try to cobble together a rotation and work a balance where he isn’t burning his pen and leaning too much on his offense. When your rotation struggles, every other facet of your game gets leaned upon to the max. The end result is a lot of tired players. He has also had to deal with some of his better players being injured for periods of time and Jeter just not having his best season. Then add the loss of Marte and Aceves and Park just not getting the job done.

    In the face of all of that, Girardi kept the team in first place.

    What I am seeing is a manager who is thinking ahead to the postseason, thinking ahead to the games in front of him, and making moves that he hopes will work so that he can stay with the moves he knows he will need to be making with the greater eventualities at hand – the possibilitity that Nova and Phil may need relief and wanting to prepare for that. And he knows what is going on with his players, what is really going on, much better than any posters on this forum.

    It isn’t Girardi’s fault that he has had to deal with an ineffective starting rotation for a good part of the season. He is dealing with the predictable residuals of that right now. And still he managed to keep the team in first place. I think that speaks to a pretty astute manager.

    JMO

  217. ET September 14th, 2010 at 12:08 am

    Girardi didn’t tinker with anything tonight.

    He gave the team 11 innings to score 1 run, they didn’t, so he decided to not push the issue.

    You saw what happened when he played to win the first night in Texas.

  218. Carl September 14th, 2010 at 12:09 am

    # Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:06 am

    Carl, I’m talking about Alex in particular……………enough with resting the guy. Either he’s healthy enough to play or he’s not. Anyway, I was responding to a post that speculated that Joe was trying to keep his players healthy and sound going into October instead of going all out to win the division. Well, most of his players are healthy and sound – ok, not Gardner and Swish – so play them.

    Oh my bad

  219. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:09 am

    Doreen, I don’t blame Joe for the SP either and I do think he’s working with very little material. He’s got one reliable SP, that’s it. Andy coming back will help, but who knows how he’ll fare in the big leagues coming back from injury? Phil’s innings limits, IMO, are not an issue – his performance his; he’s no more than a 5 inning pitcher now – and who knows about Nova? As I said before, because of this, he almost does have to plan in advance how to use his pen……….and that stinks for him.

  220. stuart a September 14th, 2010 at 12:09 am

    btw the offense had their 7th shutout on the year.

    tex coming up big.. nice dp for cano. someone should tell cano the season is 162 games not 140.

    whipptydoo el capitan got 1 single…let’s celebrate……….what a train wreck……..

  221. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 12:09 am

    the short hook with Logan – maybe because he’s the only left in the pen and he may have to use him most? And he’ll be the only left in the pen from now till the end of whenever. That’s just my thinking on that.

    Wood has been pitching a lot lately, it seems to me.

  222. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:09 am

    If we Yankees fans really wanted to help the Yankees, we’d do something to punish the umpires that cheat us, or we’d raise money to pay them off to be fair to us. Too bad there’s no other Yankees fan with enough commitment to the Yankees as I.

  223. Rich in NJ September 14th, 2010 at 12:10 am

    “…Maybe Joe Giradi has a slightly different perspective of the bigger picture than what we do……”

    Pat M

    A manager can’t, on the one hand, use a closer who is almost 41 for two IP in a tie game in intense heat and then use him again the next night while also seeing the big picture.

  224. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:10 am

    If Girardi just came out and said the “umpires have cheated us all season. It’s finally taken its toll on the players” I’d jump for joy that at least he realizes what’s going on.

  225. CB September 14th, 2010 at 12:10 am

    “If you put pitchers on the 40 man roster now when you don’t absolutely have to, then you do you do when you need to protect guys in the rule 5 draft?:”

    Put Romulo Sanchez on the 60 day DL. That opens up a 40 man roster spot for Royse Ring.

    DFA Royce Ring the day the season ends.

    DFA Chad Huffman now put Sanit on the 40 man in his place and then DFA Sanit when the season ends. Or do the same with Eric Wordkemper.

    Some of those pitchers in the minors are also going to be rule V elligible. Put them on the 40 man roster now. Do you want to keep George kontos? If so put him back on the 40 man now.

    Call up Steve Gerrison now and stick him in the bull pen. He’s on the 40 man roster already. Call up Noesi. Call up Brackman.

    There is no excuse for not being prepared. And the team wasn’t prepared to play this game tonight.

    You cannot run out of arms in September.

  226. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:11 am

    Carl, Swisher can’t run – what do you want him to do? Gardner can’t swing……I don’t believe in players faking being macho and trying to play…..and yes, they are hurt. I don’t care what the MRI said – great, it showed nothing – Swisher is still hurting.

  227. raymagnetic September 14th, 2010 at 12:11 am

    Good night Yankee folks!!!!!!!!!!

    Hope the Yankees can get a game back tomorrow.

  228. stuart a September 14th, 2010 at 12:11 am

    when cc pitches you need to win. girardi made it so unless the offense showed up they had no chance to win…

    they pitched mitre and gaudain in atie game for first place.

    that is laughable………….

  229. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:12 am

    Does Cash get any blame for this?

  230. stuart a September 14th, 2010 at 12:12 am

    only the yanks run out of arms in september because they divvy up spots like the yare friggin gold boulion………

  231. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 12:12 am

    But m,

    that (the pitch not being a cookie) doesn’t fit the storyline. ;)

  232. REZ12 September 14th, 2010 at 12:14 am

    Righties hit .277 against Logan and he has a 1.62 WHIP against them.

    He is a LOOGY exclusively.

    If he goes a 2nd inning with Wood, he is toast for tomorrow. What Joe is telling you is that he doesn’t expect to get much length the next 2 nights, and he wants to plan ahead.

    The team just needs to start hitting and hitting on the road.

  233. Captain Clutch September 14th, 2010 at 12:15 am

    I can’t wait to see what Girardi has planned for us tomorrow. Let me guess Tex, Cano and Mo need “rest” and it’s Posada’s scheduled day off. So Golson will bat 3rd and stone cold Kearns bats 5th. Then if the Yanks have a lead in the late innings since it’s auditioning time Alba will pitch the 7th, Gaudin gets the 8th and Mitre the 9th. Fun times!! I don’t know how someone could manage the New York Yankees that gets so bent out of shape when the media asks him why he made a move that he made. Maybe Girardi would be better managing a team like the Pirates with 2 beat writers and no one cares what moves the manager makes.

  234. Carl September 14th, 2010 at 12:15 am

    # Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:11 am

    Carl, Swisher can’t run – what do you want him to do? Gardner can’t swing……I don’t believe in players faking being macho and trying to play…..and yes, they are hurt. I don’t care what the MRI said – great, it showed nothing – Swisher is still hurting.

    Swish is better than Golson with one leg. BG is better than Kearns with one wrist. Man up and play.

  235. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:15 am

    I feel like all my cheering of injuries has made things turn around on my teams. In an effort to bring back good karma, I am going to apologize for my heinous laughter at the expense of Kendrick Perkins, Tom Brady, Wes Welker. For as much as I despise them, they are human beings and I shouldnt wish injury on them or take pleasure in injury to them. And I will never do those things again.

    Whew! That’s a weight off my chest. Now, the question is, can I stick by that

  236. G-C September 14th, 2010 at 12:15 am

    Its time for Girardi to stop babying Logan.

    The guy has been one of the very best relievers in baseball since he was called back up for a second go round. He gave up an earned run in his first appearance back and since then has pitched SCORELESS baseball. Think about that for a second. The guy hasn’t allowed an earned run since July 18th. Thats almost 2 months of perfect pitching. Stop wasting him for one batter to bring in inferior pitchers.

    He also needs to stop babying Chamberlain. This year has been an utter disaster for his development and its been compounded by the fact that he isn’t even going to throw 70 innings out of the pen this year. Employing him as a one inning, seventh inning reliever is just a pathetic waste of his talents. He hasn’t pitched as badly this year as everyone would make it seem. Tight eighth inning situation, he’s still the guy I want out there.

  237. LGY September 14th, 2010 at 12:16 am

    Why are we even discussion tonight’s game???

    It has already been determined the Yankees are winning the WS.

    Just go to bed and wake up in the winter to celebrate.

  238. Rich in NJ September 14th, 2010 at 12:16 am

    “Does Cash get any blame for this?”

    Of course, he acquired AJ and Vazquez and he hired Girardi.

  239. GreenBeret7 September 14th, 2010 at 12:16 am

    Pat M. September 14th, 2010 at 12:03 am
    GB…..Carlton had whiffleball movement, except he threw 95

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Yep. at times you’d think that Carlton had joined the Yankees in the 90s and throwing right handed when you watched Jeff Nelson….on days that he had control.

    Carlon and Guidry…..what a 1 and 1A part of the rotation they would have made. Pitch ‘em back to back, because even though they were almost identical, nobody was hitting them anyway. Hard to believe that neither one ever pitched a no hitter. Oddly, Rick wise did, though. Wise is the only pitcjer to throw a no hitter and hit 2 homers in that game.

    I’m sure that St . Louis still regrets making that trade.

  240. Jerkface September 14th, 2010 at 12:16 am

    What is the advantage of getting to third with 2 outs, especially when you are so fast that you’ll score on nearly any single? His baseball intuition isn’t the best.

    Isn’t this what everyone wants? Gardner to get ultra aggressive. As randy would say, “atleast now the Rays have to think about Gardner stealing third!” I’m sure this will result in many future wins.

  241. pat September 14th, 2010 at 12:16 am

    Betsy

    You asked ?What makes Joe think his team isn?t going to be healthy or sound?”

    Maybe he knows some guys aren’t healthy and doesn’t just think they might not be healthy or sound. I didn’t know Gardner was experiencing problems with his wrist since June. Maybe there are others who are experiencing problems that I don’t know about but Girardi does?

    Girardi got killed for not pinch hitting Jorge the other day and then we found out Jorge was having a CT Scan for a concussion at the time everyone wanted him to pinch hit.

    In the immortal words of Bobcat (or was it Miller), you hear what they want you to hear. :wink:

  242. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 12:17 am

    How does more arms guarantee anything? Are those arms capable at this point of getting out major league hitting?

    And believe me, you KNOW there’d be screaming here if Girardi had brought in a no-name pitcher in a scoreless tie with the Rays in extra innings. Yes, there would be.

    But, actually, I do agree that perhaps a few extra arms should be called up. I really think they didn’t expect (as they usually don’t when CC pitches) to have to go deep into the pen. It’s a reasonable expectation, but maybe one that at this time of year you might want to hedge your bets on.

    (See, I criticized.)

  243. m September 14th, 2010 at 12:17 am

    Doreen,

    I know, right? Why ruin a Grim Fairy Tale?

    Carl,

    Who knew until today if Gardner’s wrist was structurally damaged or not? It’s not, moving on. If Swish can barely move, then he does us no good out there.

  244. sunny615 September 14th, 2010 at 12:18 am

    “Yankees playing with a short sighted manager” I think the title meant to say…

  245. Wang IS Taiwan September 14th, 2010 at 12:18 am

    Girardi gets so angry when he knows he’s wrong and can’t explain himself — because nothing he would say would make sense and he’d be killed for it. Fans and reporters are not stupid (though he likes to think he’s much smarter than all of us combined.)

    He likes to just say he won’ t comment further — giving the impression he’s somehow being cagey smart about his game plan.

    Stand up and defend your moves, man! Any good manager would.

    He looks like he’s totally in over his head right now. It must be disconcerting to his players, as well. How could it NOT be??

    Nice to defend him here, guys, but he can’t even find words to defend himself. And THAT IS exactly when he gets so PO’ed at the media’s questions — who, by the way, are asking him the questions WE (at least discerning, the non-pom-pom fans) want answers to!!

    Oh, this brings back bad memories of last year’s playoffs and his crazy moves. Thank goodness the team was strong enough to overcome bad management. This year…not likely.

  246. steve sax arm September 14th, 2010 at 12:19 am

    betsy the stalker chick who knows zip about baseball is here preaching about how she doesn’t care for giradi. what a nutcase.

  247. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:19 am

    Rich, that’s not what I’m asking – and I completely disagree anyway.

    I meant : Does Cash get any blame for the team being shorthanded.

  248. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 12:19 am

    “But m,

    that (the pitch not being a cookie) doesn’t fit the storyline. ;)

    :)

  249. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:19 am

    G-C, I don’t know what you see in Joba this year that makes you trust him, but he’s putting him in a big spot is like throwing gasoline on a fire.

  250. G. Love September 14th, 2010 at 12:20 am

    Girardi is basically putting Cashman on blast by proclaiming he had no other options tonight.

    I think Girardi got jealous of Ron Washington getting in his cardio in Texas changing pitchers every batter. It’s Girardi’s wet dream to have that kind of control over the game.

    You come out publicly and claim you had no options the logical place to point the finger is at the GM who should have sent every possible reinforcement to Tampa for this series after the Texas debacle.

    I don’t think things are as ducky with Girardi & the front office as people like to think they are.

    I wonder if some words were exchanged over the press conference “no comment” sessions about managing the Cubs. Girardi turned that into more of an event than it needed to be.

    All I know is this team isn’t hitting worth a damn.

    The positive I can take from tonight outside of CC being brilliant was Jeter put some nice swings on the ball.

    The one thing that keeps sticking with me though is Teixeira is not a player you build your team around at all. He’s a complimentary piece. You can’t rely on him to do anything and I feel he’s turning into the kind of player who will underperform in relation to his contract.

    He faces a shift most nights and slams into it. He walks or hits HR’s.

    He’s not the ideal 3 hitter. He’s a 5 hitter.

  251. Rich in NJ September 14th, 2010 at 12:20 am

    Betsy

    Then who knows?

  252. raymagnetic September 14th, 2010 at 12:20 am

    CB,

    The thing is that Girardi never ran out of pitchers.

    While the bullpen may have been short he didn’t actually run out of pitchers. Mo was still available and Mitre could have pitched multiple innings regardless. Girardi was short with his good relievers. I don’t think any of the pitchers he could call up now would be significantly better than Mitre and Gaudin.

  253. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:21 am

    Pat, I thought it was ridiculous that he got killed for that because I knew something must have been up with Posada. If it wasn’t, he would have PH.

  254. raymagnetic September 14th, 2010 at 12:21 am

    I really am going to bed now however.

    CB,

    I’ll read your response when I wake up…….

  255. YankFanCA September 14th, 2010 at 12:21 am

    With the train off the tracks, it’s possible that the games versus Boston might be meaningful. Unreal. Honestly, barring something unforeseen, this team loses in 4 to Minnesota in round 1.

  256. CB September 14th, 2010 at 12:22 am

    Doreen-

    I in no way meant to be short with you and didn’t want my post to come across that way. So let me apologize for that. I always enjoy your posts and our conversations.

    You’re right that ultimately it’s on the team to win and they just aren’t hitting. I do think the past two games were exceptions because Lee and Price were lights out.

    It was very clear from the start that Price had absolute shut down stuff and that the game would be decided by a mistake or the bull pens.

    But the hitters just aren’t getting the job done.

    I am concerned however by an overall inconsistency in the way the entire organization is managing the issues going on right now. It’s not the end of the world. I don’t think the manager is an idiot or trying to lose.

    I do think he’s hedging his bets as he alluded to in the post game comments and is trying to balance health with winning.

    I just think those priorities are being handled in an inconsistent fashion right now. Hopefully that won’t continue.

    I posted this after the Texas series – the structural problem with the team is the lack of innings the rotation has been providing. That in turn has taxed the pen.

    It’s unfortunate, but that Texas series seems to have cost them more than 3 losses because multiple players were pushed physically and in ways which made got in the way of the priority of maximizing chances for staying healthy in the post season.

    If you want to prioritize staying healthy in the post season, then IMO that strategy has to center on making sure the club’s most important players are protected now. And two of those players at the very top of that list of critical players are CC and Mo. And they aren’t being given a physical buffer so that confuses me to how that strategy is being executed.

  257. Yogi Mantle September 14th, 2010 at 12:23 am

    “You cannot run out of arms in September.”

    _____________

    Unless you are Ron Washington and change pitchers for every batter.

  258. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 12:23 am

    “Maybe there are others who are experiencing problems that I don’t know about but Girardi does?”

    And if that’s the case, the last thing Girardi wants to do is give a heads-up to the opposition by announcing it. Sometimes you just have to sit by and have faith that there are some things you may not know about and hope for the best anyway.

  259. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:23 am

    Rich, you’re right………..but in any case, I don’t buy Joe’s story anyway. It’s ridiculous that Joba /Robertson weren’t available. Joba had 2 nights off, please- he needs three? Pitch him tonight and tomorrow……..if Nova struggles badly, then throw Gaudin or Mitre instead. So, I don’t believe the team is shorthanded.

    I love Cash – I barely tolerate Joe at this point.

  260. jacksquat September 14th, 2010 at 12:24 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue September 13th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
    “Girardi managed the previous games based on the fact that CC can go 7, 8 innings, and that the pitchers after that have been giving him 6 if he’s lucky.

    the man is not a liar. He’s ticked.”

    Yes. And he couldn’t have any way of knowing what he would be getting the next few days and couldn’t burn his pen because of it. But you would have to be able to see and think beyond your nose to come up with that. Christ this forum is myopic. And horridly critical. Always.

    You play to win a winnable game today, in which CC worked his ass off to keep 0-0, not save up for what might not even be needed tomorrow.

    That is not a lacking of forsight, you just have no idea what will happen tomorrow. Nova could get wiped out tomorrow and you just need someone to mop up. And it’s not like Wood or Joba could not have gone again tomorrow, and there’s still Robertson, Albaladejo, etc.

  261. stuart a September 14th, 2010 at 12:24 am

    wood threw 11 pitches.

    logan threw 5……

    can you believe girardi??????????he can care less about the division title since the yanks are so good on the road……………….

    friggin moron……..

  262. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:25 am

    Ron Washington must get a better deal with his dealer if he makes more pitching changes.

  263. Carl September 14th, 2010 at 12:25 am

    Score a run first

  264. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:25 am

    CB, then shouldn’t Cash step in? It’s sad if the manager can not be trusted to take care of CC and Mo. CC ? It’s no surprise – from the very first, Joe has pushed the big guy. I hope CC can take the wear and tear on his arm…………because no one really knows how he will react in the future.

  265. G-C September 14th, 2010 at 12:26 am

    “G-C, I don’t know what you see in Joba this year that makes you trust him, but he’s putting him in a big spot is like throwing gasoline on a fire.”

    ______________________________________

    Its not as much as everyone thinks. People’s memories for some reason are very selective when it comes to Chamberlain.

    He has been outstanding with inherited runners this year, stranding 25 of 30 of them. His walk rate is the best of the high leverage Yankee relievers and his strikeout rate is only a tick behind D-Rob’s.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love Robertson and have often said in the past that I believe he has a chance to become a star reliever. But he’s still not a better pitcher than Joba is.

  266. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:26 am

    Who is pitching against Nova tomorrow?

  267. Rich in NJ September 14th, 2010 at 12:27 am

    “I love Cash – I barely tolerate Joe at this point.”

    Betsy

    I don’t want Cashman replaced. But he has made mistakes. That has to be acknowledged.

    I have gone from thinking that Girardi is an average manager to now thinking he may be a deer in the headlights under stress.

  268. Yank1 September 14th, 2010 at 12:27 am

    “I don’t think things are as ducky with Girardi & the front office as people like to think they are.”

    We’ll find out this winter.

    If we crap out in the playoffs, I doubt Hal/Cashman are going to trace it back to this tailspin. If they lose, they just were not good enough.

    But let’s be realistic here – just like Jeter will be getting his extension, so will Girardi. If Girardi leaves, it will be by his own choice.

  269. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:27 am

    All that said, this team is in a major funk offensively and they are simply going to have to break out of it. If they don’t, they won’t go anywhere in the post-season.

    AJ and Javy really have been beyond bitter disappointments. Because they have both been awful, Phil has had to step in to fill the vacuum and he’s incapable of doing that.

  270. stuart a September 14th, 2010 at 12:28 am

    logan is better against rights then mitre and gaudian bottom line……………

  271. CB September 14th, 2010 at 12:28 am

    “How does more arms guarantee anything? Are those arms capable at this point of getting out major league hitting? ”

    Say the game went to 19 innings today.

    Say tomorrow’s game goes to 12-13 innings again.

    You can’t be caught short handed of arms, especially in September because the other team is going to have a ton of pitchers. Tampa had 15 pitchers on their roster for tonight’s game.

    Let those guys sit on the bench in the bull pen if need be. You can’t be that out manned.

  272. Carl September 14th, 2010 at 12:28 am

    Name me a GM that doesn’t make mistakes.

  273. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:28 am

    Rich, I don’ t agree with the mistakes you listed above. Of course he’s made mistakes in his career, but so have all GMs……

    Joe? Yep, a deer in the headlights and as I said earlier – I’m glad he snapped at the media because now he’s going to get called out.

  274. m September 14th, 2010 at 12:29 am

    So you burn your best and only lefty?

  275. YankFanCA September 14th, 2010 at 12:29 am

    LOL. You love Cash? For Granderson? Nick Johnson? Vazquez? Please.

  276. Rich in NJ September 14th, 2010 at 12:29 am

    If Nova pitches well in this start, he has to be in the playoff rotation, imo.

  277. steve sax arm September 14th, 2010 at 12:31 am

    yo g-c, didn’t joba just cough / choke up a lead the other night in texas. the dude puked the game away and that was the 1st of four loses . go sit next to betsy the stalker chick dude

  278. Captain Clutch September 14th, 2010 at 12:31 am

    I hope they get good news tomorrow after Swisher’s mri. They really need him back asap. To get some of the dead wood like Golson and Kearns out of the lineup will really help also. I really hope he doesn’t have a small fracture that the other test didn’t see.

  279. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:31 am

    Vazquez, Granderson were both good pickups.

    Even Johnson was, aside from his injury history.

  280. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 12:31 am

    CB -

    Girardi boxed himself into a situation when he used Mo for 2 innings Friday night. Because the following night he had to use him in a save situation. But 9 times out of 10, Mo is going to be able to do what he usually does, and being pushed a bit isn’t going to bother him.

    He really hasn’t been pushed all season.

    Mo and CC have been healthy and reliable all season. I suppose that is why Girardi is leaning on them a bit more now.

    ****
    I try to remember that no one is a perfect as they look when things are going well, and no one is as awful as they look when things are going poorly.

    Frankly, the Rays didn’t look so hot either. But they’ve won 3 that the Yankees lost.

    ***

    I will say, that after being able to hang onto 1st place for the better part of the season, it seems a shame to break down now. They definitely need a second (third?) wind, for sure. It’s darn ironic that in spite of being so careful managing his players to keep them healthy, you can’t avoid some things – you can’t pack your players in bubble wrap. You can rest their bodies, but you can’t prevent HBP and foul tips off body parts.

  281. Rich in NJ September 14th, 2010 at 12:31 am

    Betsy

    In pure baseball terms:

    Vazquez wasn’t a mistake? A five year deal for AJ wasn’t a mistake?

    From a business perspective, the moves can be justified, but I’m a fan not a stockholder.

    Again, I don’t want Cash fired. I do want him to rely more on in house solutions.

  282. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:31 am

    Crapping out in the playoffs is not necessarily a reason to not re-sign a manager. In fact, it’s generally not a good reason because the manager usually doesn’t make enough mistakes to affect the outcomes and the players actually decide the games. However, it’s the process. Joe is coming off like he doesn’t have any clue what he’s doing. One day it’s one thing, another day it’s another. He trusts Joba over Phil………..huh? He rests Alex for no reason at all………….and then, when Swish is scratched, doesn’t put him in the lineup. He’s off the wall.

  283. ZMAN September 14th, 2010 at 12:32 am

    You guys are just fooling yourselves if you think Girardi is going anywhere (unless its by choice).

    If you want Girardi gone, root for the Sox to make a miracle comeback and for us to miss the playoffs. Then he’ll be gone.

    Otherwise, accept the fact that he is going to get an extension. Cash/Hal have given no indication they are unhappy with him. The guy just won a WS.

  284. CB September 14th, 2010 at 12:32 am

    “So you burn your best and only lefty?”

    So you protect your only lefty and burn your 40 year old closer 4 games ago?

    It’s fine to prioritize the health of your team coming down the stretch if you basically are assured of being in the playoffs.

    But if that’s the strategy execute it consistently and make sure you prioritize not pushing your critical assets.

  285. Yogi Mantle September 14th, 2010 at 12:33 am

    Here’s what I don’t understand about Girardi and the Cone of Silence treatment of players who aren’t available. Lets say that Posada isn’t available, what really changes as far as the opposition making moves during the later inning? Same with pitchers. If they aren’t available it isn’t going to make the opposing manager work any differently than if they were. When moves are made you try to counter it.

    This isn’t like football where you have to plan around how various players can make plays. Sure, some pitching match ups are better than others, but if its a crucial point in the game a GOOD manager isn’t going to hold back on pinch hitting because a pitcher is waiting in the wings.

    The value of withholding injury information is keeping other GMs from knowing how desperate you are to cover a position. It isn’t going to amount to much in game to game situations because once you keep skipping a player it sort of becomes obvious there is a problem.

  286. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 12:33 am

    jacksquat, just how winnable the game was today is certainly debatable. In fact I think we could have been playing in the 15th inning and you could have burned your entire pen for a possibility. While I understand your scenario, I also understand playing for the next two games, when your starting pitching is a lot more uncertain and resting up your pitchers who you consider your bread and butter relief, especially those who had struggled in the Texas heat.

    And face it, if Girardi brought Joba in and he failed he would never have heard the end of it from either the media or the talking heads on this forum.

    The guy is pretty much damned when he does and damned when he doesn’t.

    My preference is always to give the benefit of the doubt especially to those whose knowledge of the entire situation (that would be the Yankee manager and coaches) is typically superior to that of the fanbase.

  287. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:34 am

    ZMAN – Exactly. Girardi is not going anywhere. It’s kind of funny that the craziest person here – ME! – knows that but the calmest and most rational and well-informed poster here – SJ44, among others – dont know that!

    :lol:

  288. G-C September 14th, 2010 at 12:34 am

    The Vazquez trade might end up being a big time win because of Logan anyway.

    Three years from now that could be seen as the Boone Logan trade here. Relievers are fungible so I doubt it, but it is possible.

  289. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:35 am

    No, Vasquez was not a mistake, Rich – let’s not get into this again; it’s been rehashed a zillion times. Javy was counted on to be simply a #4 pitcher and there was NO reason to expect him to collapse like this. Logan has been a godsend, frankly. Vizcaino? Sorry, I’m not going to mourn for him.

    We needed another pitcher and Lowe sucked something awful last year; I’m not going to kill him for that.

    Just who did you want him to rely on in terms of the starting rotation? You’ve seen Phil’s body of work this year. Had he been in the rotation last year full time, would he have done any better? Kennedy? I don’t like him particularly – IMO, he’s an NL West pitcher, that’s it.

  290. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:35 am

    Hey, you’re entitled to your opinion YankinCA, but I am as well………..and it ends here.

  291. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 12:36 am

    “You guys are just fooling yourselves if you think Girardi is going anywhere (unless its by choice).

    If you want Girardi gone, root for the Sox to make a miracle comeback and for us to miss the playoffs. Then he’ll be gone.

    Otherwise, accept the fact that he is going to get an extension. Cash/Hal have given no indication they are unhappy with him. The guy just won a WS.”

    ZMAN, I ABSOLUTELY agree with this. And it has nothing to do with what I want or don’t want because I adjust to whatever happens without much fanfare. And I guarantee you they are totally on board with his managing because they understand the situation and they are also used to hearing fans bitch when they don’t like something. That certainly doesn’t affect the way they do business.

    :)

  292. REZ12 September 14th, 2010 at 12:40 am

    People accusing Joe of panicking under pressure, imply that we’re in a pressure situation, when we are not.

    We are in the playoffs.

    When the playoffs start, Chad Gaudin will not be coming into a tie game on the road. Mitre will be nowhere to be found. Greg Golson and Nunez will be nowhere to be found.

    Using how he is managing now as a barometer for what he will do in the playoffs is not based on facts, unless you think he will play to lose in the postseason. That’s all it is about now – the postseason.

    If the team wants to win the division, then let them start to play the way they are capable of. Not leaving 32 runners on base in 2 games, then get 6 combined hits in the next 2 games. They are playing so poorly that they are leaving the game in the hands of the manager who isin’t playing to win the battle.

    The team is in a tailspin because of how they are playing. Hope people are not forgetting that fact. If you think the manager is the main problem with the team, you will be in for a rude awakening…

  293. Rich in NJ September 14th, 2010 at 12:40 am

    Betsy

    If a move doesn’t work out, it’s a mistake,

    It wasn’t too long ago that Cashman said that the days of trading for or signing veteran starters was winding down.

    Yet the Big Three became the Big One.

    It takes patience to develop young starters. But they let business considerations govern.

  294. m September 14th, 2010 at 12:41 am

    CB,

    Again I was only talking about tonight. I was really responding to this post:

    “stuart a September 14th, 2010 at 12:28 am
    logan is better against rights then mitre and gaudian bottom line……………”

    I’ve already said that I was okay with 24 pitches on Friday, but probably would’ve found someone else to close on Saturday (in an actual save situation).

    You can argue that the roster construction is handcuffing Girardi, but the same can also be said of the offense and to a certain extent the failure of the bullpen on Friday and Saturday.

  295. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:42 am

    Rich, I don’t agree at all with that comment about a move being a mistake if it didn’t work out.

    Sorry, I don’t get your answer. Exactly who did you want the Yankees to do with last year? This year? You want an all home-grown team?

  296. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:43 am

    Joba was awful last year, Rich and Kennedy was never and never should have been compared to Phil and Joba. He had no future here and I was fine with trading him.

  297. steve sax arm September 14th, 2010 at 12:43 am

    your opinions are idiotic betsy. when do you leave here to go back to whatever place you disppear to. you change your mindless position every 30 minutes.

  298. Rich in NJ September 14th, 2010 at 12:44 am

    Right Betsy, patience.

  299. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 12:46 am

    “ZMAN – Exactly. Girardi is not going anywhere. It’s kind of funny that the craziest person here – ME! – knows that but the calmest and most rational and well-informed poster here – SJ44, among others – dont know that!”

    I think you have just pointed out that you are NOT the craziest person here and that SJ is NOT the calmest and most rational and well-informed. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You both have your moments – up and down.

    ;)

  300. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:46 am

    Ok, Rich, I disagree. We won the WS last year and I’m perfectly happy about that.

  301. Rich in NJ September 14th, 2010 at 12:46 am

    Betsy

    I wanted Joba to be in the rotation and I wanted to hold on to IPK at least until he raised his trade value.

    I don’t know about you, but when I worked for someone, if a move or a strategy didn’t work out, it was considered a mistake, no matter how right it may have seemed at the time.

  302. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:49 am

    Rich, well Joba was in the rotation and he was bad. Are you talking about this year? Joba and Phil? That would have been awful………….

    I liked Granderson, still do, so I’m not about to judge that trade now.

  303. Betsy September 14th, 2010 at 12:51 am

    Well, I don’t agree at all with that definition of “mistake”.

    Cashman’s reasoning was very solid in wanting to acquiure Javy; the fact that it didn’t work out sucks, but that does not mean he made a mistake.

  304. Rich in NJ September 14th, 2010 at 12:54 am

    Betsy

    I was for the Granderson traded even though I hated selling low on IPK.

    I never wanted Vazquez back.

    Yes, Joba needed patience.

  305. Cashmoney September 14th, 2010 at 1:03 am

    I never wanted Vazquez back.
    ————————-
    ditto

  306. SAS September 14th, 2010 at 1:08 am

    You know the Yankees have been playing with injuries all season long. Not just one serious injury but a plethora of small injuries (except Nick Johnson). Derek has had an awful year at the plate. Tex couldn’t hit to save his soul for over 2 months. Yet we have been in 1st place almost all summer.

    If the Yankees are the wildcard team and healthy, they can go far. If these relatively little injuries are not healed……………………….

    It is no one player. They have played their hearts out even when they should be on the bench.

    Criticizing Girardi and Cashman get you no where. Mistakes are made by the best of us. Tonight I really think Girardi goofed bringing in Mitre, but maybe one of the other guys would have done the same.

    One could say that Cashman should have gotten a better 2nd string catcher with Posada as hobbled as he is. Maybe we wouldn’t have liked that guy either.

    If it were so easy just to spend a bundle of money for a team, the Yankees would never have lost a year since George took over.

    By the way, I am not interested in the Red Sox problems, and they played quite well considering their circumstances.

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