The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


The impossible to explain decision

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Podcast on Sep 14, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Yankees Rays BaseballSergio Mitre made a bad pitch that Reid Brignac hit out to right. That part was pretty easy to explain.

Joe Girardi used his long relievers because he wanted to give his reliable setup men an extra day off. Girardi’s explanation might not have satisfied everyone, but he had his own reason for bringing Mitre into the game.

The turning point of last night’s game that was pretty much unexplainable was Brett Gardner’s decision to try to steal third base with two outs in the 10th inning.

Gardner said he didn’t think Joaquin Benoit was going to pick over to third base. Evan Longoria was playing far off the bag, and Gardner thought he could make it. He said he wanted to make Benoit less likely to throw a slider to Austin Kearns, but even Gardner seemed not-quite-sold on his reasoning.

“Looking back on it, I guess it was kind of unnecessary,” he said. “I’m sorry for that… If I got thrown out stealing second, I wouldn’t beat me up about it, but that’s a situation where you can’t get thrown out stealing third.”

There’s no way of knowing how the Kearns at-bat would have finished, but with Gardner’s speed, he would have scored on any sort of base hit. Getting to third might have slightly changed Benoit’s approach, and it would have allowed Gardner to score on a wild pitch or passed ball, but it was far too little gain for such a big risk.

“I screwed up,” Gardner said. “And I take full responsibility.”

Here’s Gardner’s postgame.

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Associated Press photo

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173 Responses to “The impossible to explain decision”

  1. sunny615 September 14th, 2010 at 9:12 am

    Yes you did, but at least you tried.

  2. sunny615 September 14th, 2010 at 9:14 am

    I have less of a problem with Gardner’s steal attempt (I’m glad he finally decided to try to steal for once, but of course, he did get a little over the top with it but it’s still better than sitting on first like he had for the past three months), than I do with Meat head – a guy who hadn’t touched a baseball almost for two weeks. What good is resting your pen with a game on the line? forgive me if I’m wrong here but isn’t the point to try to WIN a game instead of saving your bullets for a hypothetical situation that may or may not happen?

  3. G. Love September 14th, 2010 at 9:18 am

    I think one of my biggest questions is what is going on with the selection of players with this team over the years that is causing this inability to get base hits?

    This has been happening here for awhile. In the late Torre years we all were frustrated as the team was either walking or waiting for 3 run HR’s.

    Now the team, again, seems incapable of stringing together base hits with any modicum of consistency.

    Is this the trap you fall in when you place high premium on OBP?

    Does high OBP make the team passive?

    I don’t understand the utter inability to hit for any sort of average.

    That said, Jeter, Tex and Arod’s averages are all lower than they should be so that explains some of it.

    But getting hits other than HR’s has been a problem here for awhile.

    It’s why there was a constant hue and cry here for guys who could put the ball in play and do positive things with outs.

  4. upstate kate September 14th, 2010 at 9:18 am

    not only tried, but took full responsibility for his mistake

  5. zippy September 14th, 2010 at 9:20 am

    this offense stinks, but not as bad as the guy who just walked over to my desk to talk about how bad the offense stinks. he could’ve used some deo this morning.

  6. Wang IS Taiwan September 14th, 2010 at 9:21 am

    “What good is resting your pen with a game on the line? forgive me if I’m wrong here but isn’t the point to try to WIN a game instead of saving your bullets for a hypothetical situation that may or may not happen?”

    You’re not wrong, Sunny.

    As many of us said last night — this was a big issue. Win while you can, because you may not get close enough in the next two games. Scoring one run (with our lacklaster hitting as of late) is easier than scoring 5 to come from behind.

    I think CC deserved the best we had out there after his monster effort.

    Hopefully, the guys come out charged tonight to beat these Rays and take back first place. Maybe Girardi should take a night off to rest…

  7. 86w183 September 14th, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Sorry Sunny but Gardner trying to steal third with two outs was flat out out stupid.

    Albaladejo would seem to be a much better option in short relief than Mitre who is build for, designed for and been used for longer outings all season.

    Still through this stretch offense has been a much bigger problem than pitching. Three runs or less in six of eight games (7 losses).

  8. Wang IS Taiwan September 14th, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Thanks for sharing, zippy. :)

  9. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 9:23 am

    sunny615 -

    I think the situation he’s saving bullets for is the playoffs, not tonight’s game or tomorrow’s game. I think ultimately that’s the way he’s looking at things. Right or wrong.

  10. BumKnee September 14th, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Look at the picture—if you’ve had a bad wrist for three months, and you have trouble swinging a bat and can’t play, when you slide, perhaps you might not want to go in head first. Dumbo.

  11. Erica in NY September 14th, 2010 at 9:26 am

    Doreen-

    So I went online last night to book that cooking class. Apparently a bachelorette party also thought it sounded like fun and it sold out.

    So now I am doing the Champange Brunch class on Sunday morning and going to the spa after. Woohoo!

  12. Rich in NJ September 14th, 2010 at 9:28 am

    It was foreseeable for over a week that he might have to use Mitre in a big spot, yet Girardi has inexplicably used Gaudin repeatedly, and as a result, Mitre wasn’t sharp. That idiocy is on him.

  13. sunny615 September 14th, 2010 at 9:29 am

    I don’t consider it a mistake… it was a good choice and solid reason to go IMO but just got unlucky…

  14. sunny615 September 14th, 2010 at 9:30 am

    AND – he almost made it despite the pick off…

  15. GoldGlove9486 September 14th, 2010 at 9:31 am

    I just have this numbing feeling. The wild card magic number is still at 12. I hope this is not like the end of the 2000 regular season again.

  16. Wang IS Taiwan September 14th, 2010 at 9:31 am

    But you gotta get to the playoffs first…can’t jump the gun there. No use saving bullets for a future that may not ever emerge. Step on their throats. I thought this guy was supposed to be fiery. He just gets mad when people question his decisions which is just insecurity.

    For the record, I believe Girardi is a good man, but that has nothing to do with his ability to manage.

  17. CB September 14th, 2010 at 9:31 am

    “I think one of my biggest questions is what is going on with the selection of players with this team over the years that is causing this inability to get base hits?”

    Last year they hit for a very high average – .284 which put them second in the league to the Angels .285, IIRC.

    So last year was a different story. They generated a lot of base hits.

    This year they still are generating basehits at a good rate – it’s just not great.

    The issue with their base hits however is that many of them were generated by Cano, Swisher and Gardner. Cano is now slumping very badly and Swisher and Gardner have been injured and it’s effecting their hitting.

    Tex, Jeter, and Posada just haven’t generated base hits at the rate you’d hope (and Tex’s start to the season does matter – he doesn’t get a pass for picking it up the second half of the season, especially now that he slumping again).

    Ultimately, it’s just very difficult to find guys who can generate base hits at a high rate while also getting on base a lot and who ideally can hit for power. Those are the most valuable players in the game. For a long time Cano carried this team by acting as that kind of player. Now he’s slumping and the offense is feeling the lack of that kind of balanced bat.

    Tex is a terrific all around player. But he has real limitations to his offensive game. He has a very odd swing that’s going to make him inconsistent and one which has real holes to it. He’s only hit .300 in a season twice in his career.

    As Alex ages, they can’t afford for Tex to be a .260-.280 hitter. At minimum, he needs to get back to being a the .280-.300 hitter he usually is and hasn’t been this season.

    His slump now is particularly costly because part of why they yankees are a game behind now is due to Tex contributing so little over the first 2 months of the season when he was literally one of the least productive starting players in the game. He needs to make up those lost games now and instead he’s flailing again.

  18. sunny615 September 14th, 2010 at 9:33 am

    Doreen – I can understand that logic, but he’s putting the team in difficult situations so that he has to make these decisions. Your spending bullets to save shinier bullets… and losing games in the process.

    For example, with Kearns (?) on first no outs, why is Granderson bunting when Colin Curtis is on deck? He put the team in a situation to not come away with a run. Let Granderson hit and even if he keeps it on the ground, worst case, do a hit and run – same scenario later for Curtis. Best case (barring a HR), you have first and third no out where Colin’s sac fly scores the winning run.

  19. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Erica -

    That’s too bad. But champagne brunch and spa sounds like a great second choice!

  20. Al in Houston September 14th, 2010 at 9:35 am

    Seems to me the players are really pressing but Joe G is only concerned with getting ready for October baseball. Now that the Rangers have swept us doesnt that make them more confident if they play us in Oct? Now for the Rays…………

  21. SJ44 September 14th, 2010 at 9:36 am

    You can’t try to steal third in that situation.

    Its a dumb baseball play on every level. There is no logic or reasoning to do it.

    Gardner owned up to it, which is admirable

    However, the mistake, a big one in a big game, can’t happen again.

  22. sunny615 September 14th, 2010 at 9:39 am

    The health of this team I think is the biggest discriminator between the 2009 Yankees and the 2010 Yankees. The 09 team was healthy all year and Girardi could play his mind games and it wouldn’t adversely affect the outcome of the game. But when you’re playing Golson, Curtis, Pena, Cervelli, et al with regularity, that team is not built for the kind of run the 09 team had and their ability to overcome deficits.

  23. pat September 14th, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Brett has game changing speed but he seems to lack the EQ of how best to use it. :sad:

  24. Ralow September 14th, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Girardi needs to take the blame for this one. Gardner’s decision was stupid but I don’t have such a big issue with being over aggressive…especially with his speed. But saying you are “trying to give your reliable set up guys an extra days rest” is pretty stupid. I could maybe understand if this was June, but this is the MIDDLE OF SEPTEMBER and we are playing a game for FIRST PLACE. If there is ever a time to use your big guns its NOW. This was a playoff preview and we wasted a great effort by CC. Not getting hits just happens…its a part of baseball and we were facing probably the AL Cy Young runner up (although that doesn’t really explain the previous week). But still, use your big money players. Sitting A-Rod on Sunday was stupid too.

    Like I said, its mid-Sept, not mid June. This is what we pay these guys for.

  25. sunny615 September 14th, 2010 at 9:40 am

    SJ44 September 14th, 2010 at 9:36 am
    You can?t try to steal third in that situation.

    Its a dumb baseball play on every level. There is no logic or reasoning to do it.

    Gardner owned up to it, which is admirable

    However, the mistake, a big one in a big game, can?t happen again.

    -=-=-=-=

    I’d be surprised if it did…

  26. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    I suppose what I’m trying to do is continue to view the glass as half full.

    I think CB’s points are the most telling though. Because if the team is performing as it’s expected to, Girardi’s machinations wouldn’t be as open to nitpicking. Baseball is a game that’s a natural for fans to second guess and question moves and play out different scenarios. So I appreciate the more calm and reasoned nature to this morning’s discussion. It makes it easier to me to think about the other side of the coin. But I do tend to have a knee-jerk reaction when a preponderance of the posts just seem inappropriately angry.

    I can make a list of the things I haven’t liked that Girardi has done. But overall, he’s done a very good job to this point. And I don’t like to dwell on the negatives, but rather push forward and hope for the best the next game – one of the great things about baseball is there are a lot of next games.

    sunny615 -

    You’re showing a lot of faith in a guy – Granderson – in that position who many here don’t think could hit his way out of a paper bag. ;)

  27. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 9:46 am

    And also, people want the rookies called up, but then it seems they don’t really want them to be in games.

  28. Yankee Trader September 14th, 2010 at 9:46 am

    I’m going back to the top of the 8th inning. Posada gets on 1st. Kearns doesn’t advance the runner, who is still Posada, and instead hits into a DP. Next batter Granderson gets a base hit. That inning could have been the ball game.

    Facing the Minnesota Twins, who in all likelihood will have HFA, will not be an easy task. They have the best home record to date in the AL and if they play well in their next series against the White Sox, might very well have HFA throughout the playoffs.

    At the very least, there should be immediate callups of pitchers from the 40 man roster, and they should find a way to add lefty Royce Ring to it.

  29. Laura - I Bleed Blue September 14th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    There’s no guarantee that Kearns would have even gotten a hit. He’s slumping as well.

  30. YankeeBlue222 September 14th, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Gardner attempting to steal in that situation was by far the dumbest decision I’ve seen on a baseball field in a long time.

  31. Laura - I Bleed Blue September 14th, 2010 at 9:49 am

    “And I don?t like to dwell on the negatives, but rather push forward and hope for the best the next game ? one of the great things about baseball is there are a lot of next games.”

    I’d find that comforting if it were June or July. It’s September 14th. It’s getting late and we are running out of games.

  32. LGY September 14th, 2010 at 9:50 am

    After this skid over the past week, the Yankees are not likely to win the division. Going for the division win right now and HFA is an uphill battle. And because of how much easier the Rays schedule is, the Yankees would probably have to go all out to do so.

    If Girardi continues to play it the way he is right now the Yankees will finish in 2nd place, but will have a team where many of its most important players did not benefit from taking it easy down the stretch.

    Without HFA, I would try to leverage any possible advantage the Yankees can over their opponent. The only thing you can really do at this point is have a fully rested and injury free team. That is an advantage, particularly for some players like Alex and CC that could payoff in October.

    Do what you did last year with CC, leave Swisher on the bench until he is as healed up as possible, same with Gardner (they are both injured. If you care so little about the game last night to put Gaudin and Mitre in why are you putting those 2 at risk?), give Cano a couple days off or at least 1 per week, keep giving Alex days off, call some more arms up and spread out the work in the bullpen, don’t play around with Mo for more than 1 inning, and so on.

    Leverage your bets and face reality that this team is probably going to finish in 2nd place and hope a strategy of team spread rest will make up for that in the playoffs.

  33. blake September 14th, 2010 at 9:51 am

    Gardner is very fast but he’s also very inexperienced at the big league level…that’s a play you just can’t make in that situation and hopefully he will learn from it and not let it happen again.

    Girardi and the Yankees are trying to accomplish two different goals that don’t agree with each other very well. Therefore its causing them to halfway work towards each goal. As others have said the wild card is being used as a cushion at this point so that players can be rested. The only problem with that strategy is that at some point you still have to win games or you’ll wind up in danger of allowing other teams to get close enough that instead of accomplishing 1 of the two goals you accomplish neither….

    Super Nova, the offense, and the pen need to step it up and get this game tonight. Garza will challenge with his fastball early….can’t let him settle in and get in a groove….need to jump in him early.

  34. sunny615 September 14th, 2010 at 9:53 am

    Well, I have more faith in Granderson than I do in a rookie… A lot of people diss on Grandy a lot, but IMO, he’s a better hitter than Curtis. But yes, I do have more faith in Granderson than a lot of people here do.

  35. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 9:55 am

    But Laura -

    Angsting over completed games is a waste of energy. You have to look forward to the next game. Especially when there are so few remaining.

  36. Abe Peterham September 14th, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Can this team step it up and get hot all together?
    They haven’t all year. A few can carry , injuries though seem very limiting to this team going on a tear. We shall see.

  37. zippy September 14th, 2010 at 9:57 am

    the smell at my desk has dissipated. I take it as a good sign that the stink on our offense will go away tonight

  38. pat September 14th, 2010 at 10:00 am

    If the fallback position of the wild card wasn’t available, would Andy be pitching in Altoona or Tampa tonight?

  39. CB September 14th, 2010 at 10:00 am

    “You’re showing a lot of faith in a guy – Granderson – in that position who many here don’t think could hit his way out of a paper bag. ”

    Not necessarily. You could also be showing very little faith in the ability of Grant Balfour – a pitcher with very poor control – to avoid throwing two more balls to granderson.

    Having a guy who can hit for power bunt is questionable to begin with. To have him bunt in front of a weak hitting rookie with little major league experience is even more so. To have him continue to bunt when he’s ahead in the count 2-0 and is a patient hitter at baseline and could advance the runner into scoring position without making an out by drawing a walk is not good baseball.

    The weakness that the yankees failed to exploit that inning was Balfour’s poor control. Balfour’s been better about walking guys this season but that’s a small sample from a career in which he’s struggled a lot with his control. They just let him off the hook first by bunting.

    And then by Collin Curtis guessing fastball and swinging at the first pitch. That was also very poor decision making on the rookie’s part and probably related to his lack of experience.

    They never made Balfour prove that inning that he could throw strikes in that situation. Balfour fell behind Austin Kearns and then gave up a base hit. Balfour then fell behind Granderson. Then the yankees made two outs on the next two pitches.

    They just did Balfour a favor by not making him show that he could throw quality strikes which up to the bunt was not a capacity that he had not demonstrated at all.

  40. SAS September 14th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Erica,

    Off topic:

    Enjoy your time in AC. Take in from an old lady, there must be a million cooking classes in the NY area, and if you can follow a recipe, you will cook just fine. I made hot dogs and baked beans when we came home from our honeymoon. It did get better from there.

  41. 108 stitches September 14th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    At times Girardi looks lost and baffled in the dugout, resting his chin on the dugout rail. His body language doesn’t show the same confidence and fire in his eyes as it did last year and even in 2008.
    Maybe he needs to manage a team with low expectations.

  42. longtimefan September 14th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Gardner screwed up and admitted it. Girardi on the other hand tries to spin and lie his way out of
    his screwups. Time to give Girardi a 4 day rest like he claims Joba needed and let Tony Pena
    fill in. This game had many implications, losing first place, losing 4 in a row, giving Tampa a swagger, deflating your own players–way to important a game put in the hands of Gaudin and
    Mitre.

  43. Patrick from CT September 14th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Gardner has great speed but is not a great base runner.
    You never make the last out at 3rd! Not streching a hit, not taking an extra base, not stealing. Little leaguers Know that…
    Gardners baserunning is vary frustrating. He should be stealing bases on the first or second pitch too.

    Joe using long men last night had better not back fire.

  44. Erica in NY September 14th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    SAS September 14th, 2010 at 10:04 am
    Erica,

    Off topic:

    Enjoy your time in AC. Take in from an old lady, there must be a million cooking classes in the NY area, and if you can follow a recipe, you will cook just fine. I made hot dogs and baked beans when we came home from our honeymoon. It did get better from there.

    *******************

    Its funny, I haven’t been able to find a cooking class in NY. I saw they opened this cooking school there and I thought it sounded great. I actually try to find other activities to do when I am in AC. If I stay there for two days and do nothing but sit at slot machines I could wind up homeless.

  45. sunny615 September 14th, 2010 at 10:28 am

    That decision to bunt Granderson with Balfour on the mound was just plain inexcusable.

  46. Patrick from CT September 14th, 2010 at 10:30 am

    I think Wood could have gone another inning. Then I go to Joba/Logan. After that long men. Joe had at least 2 more innings before needing Goudan and Mitre…
    Our Managers moves are not looking good lately!

  47. Patrick from CT September 14th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Yes, I agree Sunny. When Grandy came up I was like here we go 2 run bomb coming up.

  48. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Somebody that I have influenced greatly with my talk of umpires/referees just asked me regarding the Jets game, “how can the referees be allowed to get away with it?”

    And I simply explained because nobody cares. The fans would rather blame the team or the manager than the real culprits. And Im not talking about the game last night; in this instance, Im talking about the Jets game.

    If we New York Fans banded together and did something about these referees, the Yankees could win the World Series every year. You know the old saying “All things being equal…”

    It’s up to all of you to put aside your bias against conspiracies and realize what I speak is fact. There has to be something that we fans can do to put an end to the unjust nature of referees. All things being equal, Im not sure a New York team would ever lose a title. We’d win every championship…..ok ok, not the Knicks or Rangers :)

  49. SAS September 14th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Erica.

    Please don’t end up homeless. Have you ever thought of a different type of vacation?

  50. charlestonchew September 14th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Bunting Granderson, Gardner stealing third, Curtis swinging at the first pitch, and the decisions to use Gaudin and Mitre had me scratching my head.

    I scratched all of it off last night. All of it. Gone.

  51. SAS September 14th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    REMINDER;

    Primary Day in NY.

  52. zippy September 14th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    damon or matsui would’ve delivered that 2 run bomb !

  53. Chambliss September 14th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    What bothers me about Girardi is his overreliance on the numbers. Going with the stats most of the time is fine, but how about going with your gut once in a while?

    Common sense would have said make Balfour throw a strike to Granderson.

    I think that we are all in a bit of shock with three walkoff defeats in four days.

  54. Jim September 14th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Stop killing Gardner for stealing 3rd. It took an amazing throw and even a more amazing catch and tag to get him, this team is in the position they are in right now because Girardi and more importantly his players play as if they are afraid of making mistakes. It’s uninspired. Everyone seems to be sitting around waiting for Swisher/Arod/Cano etc to hit a home run to win a game – and to their credit it’s been happening more often than it should but against pitchers like Price you’ve GOT to be able to score runs without hits.

    The Yankees are paying during this slump for their uncreative approach to scoring runs this year. I’ve said this a hundred times and I’ll say it a hundred more – no one gets 3 run hrs in the playoffs, there are very few mistake pitches in the playoffs. The way Gardner played last night is the kind of low percentage risks that wins championships when the difference between the teams is razor thin. Good pitchers get beat when they find themselves under the kind of pressure they aren’t used to facing – ask Mariano.

  55. RayVT September 14th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Gardner seems kind of mechanical on the basepaths. We’ve watched him be inserted as a PR and saw him cling to 1B like he was afraid to move. Now he tries to steal 3B with 2 outs. Both of those are dumb baseball. He seems to be second guessing himself with every step. We know he doesn’t read pitchers well and when he does steal its on raw speed.

    I agree with those who say that Joe G is not using his lineup efficiently. He has weakened the lineup every game for the last 8 or more games with roving rest and more. It would seem in hindsight that perhaps he should have perhaps limited it to 1 or 2 games with most everyone needing rest getting it. Also, is Cano an iron man? No rest at all! This is the worst trait of a super-controller which Joe G is, over managing & over thinking.

  56. Bring in the Goose September 14th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    CB – great points re: the Balfour at-bats.

    I said it during the game last night – Granderson has to be allowed to work that count from 2-0 further. There’s no need to bunt in that situation.

    I’m worried about this club, but am more worried about its leader making foolish decisions.

    By the way – the location of the pitch that Mitre threw to a left-handed hitter was an absolute joke. Cant blame Joe there – that execution was atrocious.

  57. sunny615 September 14th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    That’s what I thought too Patrick – especially when the count was 2-0. When I saw him square, a WTF came blurting outta my mouth. Thankfully, my kids were in bed by then.

  58. 108 stitches September 14th, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Chad has pointed out on more than one occasion that a way should be found to put LH Royce Ring on the 40-man roster with Damaso Marte now out for the season.
    When Girardi uses Boone Logan as a situational lefthander for 1/3 of an inning like last night, it empties the bullpen of lefthanders for the remainder of the game.
    Meanwhile, Vazquez for one is wasted in the bullpen along with callups like Juan Miranda and Kevin Russo just sitting in the dugout with no purpose.
    For the rest of the way, the bullpen is overloaded with long relievers and when Andy returns, add Dustin Mosely to the list.
    Last night, if Ring were on the roster, he could have taken the 1/3 of an inning that Logan was used for then later in the game, Logan could have faced the lefty hitting Brignac.

  59. RayVT September 14th, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Jim September 14th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Sorry Jim, but even attempting to steal 3rd with 2 outs is just plain dumb! There is no excuse. Idiotic plays like that can take the life out of a team very quickly. Along with Joe G bunting Ganderson on a 2-0 pitch with a rookie behind him makes for a lot of questioning by the players as to what these two are thinking. Add to that the fact that Joe G has had 1 or more regulars resting every game for last 2 weeks makes things appear as if Joe G wants the WC only. Kind of like fighting with one hand behind your back. It makes no sense.

  60. stuart a September 14th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    stealing 3rd is of no benefit. gardner scores from 2nd on anything but a wild pitch.

    total stupid by gardner. wh still takes way to long to steal.

    girardi is a jerk.

  61. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 10:53 am

    I agree with Gardner stealing 3rd being stupid.

    But perhaps Gardner was trying to get to 3rd to score on a wild pitch, because he knew the HP umpire was never going to allow the batter to get a hit…

  62. Bad Scooter September 14th, 2010 at 10:54 am

    Bad move or not, the last thing I want to do is take away the aggressiveness of BG on the basepaths. He’s been to passive in his stolen base attempts this season as it is. Run, run, run.

  63. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 10:55 am

    CB -

    I was being facetious with sunny615. :) And I’m a Granderson fan. And after reading all the reasons why not bunting would have been the better play, I agree.

  64. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 10:56 am

    My favorite post from last night:

    “Bo knows September 14th, 2010 at 3:23 am

    Boy there are few that aren’t out to hang Joe. Personally I go back to Texas. Struggling pitchers going against good starters ending in Lee. Rationally he’d want to win one game. So in the first game he blew out the BP waiting for the offense to score a run. Next day another teaser, Mo fails, Joe blames himself. The Lee game, still no offense, today nada. So he gave the offense 10 innings to show life and at that point he’s playing the next two games. Because every inning they don’t score Tampa has two innings to his one. He can’t afford to repeat the mistake he made in Texas and blow out the BP again.

    Now I don’t sit and shoot the breeze with Joe but it seems to me that the above would come close to his thinking. Now either the offense comes to life, the middle of the order, and NY wins the next two and he has a BP to preserve those games or they continue to tank and at that point he sets up for the wild card. Tampa has the much easier sched.

    I really have difficulties with all the keyboard warriors screaming slurs as reality checks. Joe and Pena are very bright men, both ex catchers, both winning awards as managers. Somehow I fail to see how they could be as stupid as portrayed. They are dealing with the situations as they develop and are aware of tactics today and strategy for the future.

    However unless Alex and Berk pick up the team and carry it for the next few games and jumpstart the offense I don’t see the Yankees remaining in first place. Too many negatives, from the injuries to age to the starting pitching.

    By the way, bless you ladies for remaining calm and rational, a pleasant change from the hysterics.”

    “They are dealing with the situations as they develop and are aware of tactics today and strategy for the future. ”

    A point quite a few of us have tried to make but it has fallen on deaf ears.

  65. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Trisha – My favorite post of last night is the one where you said Im not the craziest poster on the blog…and that I have my ups and downs! We all know Im the craziest, but I appreciated the sentiment. :)

    Anyway, that’s what a lot of these people fail to understand, that Joe and the rest of the staff are being strategical for the future – not just one game.

  66. RayVT September 14th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    I want to clarify something. I like Gardner & Joe G and for the most part I think they have performed admirably. It is the trend that I see lately that bothers me. It appears that Joe G is trying to play the game instead of managing it.

    If he were truly playing for the WC, then you rest all your regulars for a game or two at the same time. (You don’t want to lose continuity and confidence.) Secondly, the lineup juggling to make sure the Left-Right-Left-Right crap is over the top.

  67. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 11:06 am

    My other favorite post from last night. (Yogi said it’s okay to have two favorite posts!)

    Nick in SF September 14th, 2010 at 2:57 am

    “Perhaps if his players were performing, he wouldn’t need to “overmanage.” ?”

    Sure, but when things are going badly, that’s when the pressure is on. How does Girardi do when the pressure is at its most intense? This is crunch time; is he doing well down the stretch?

    I honestly don’t know and I don’t think anyone really knows. So the jury is out.

    ****************************

    I definitely am with the team that is willing to give Joe the benefit of the doubt and trust that he knows more about the fine points and bigger picture than all of us. But I agree with Nick. No matter how loudly anyone screams at this point assuring the rest of us that he or she knows what Joe should have done differently, the jury definitely is out.

    I think I would have an easier time agreeing with “Team Kill Joe” if Joe were dealing with an offense hitting the tar off the ball and a starting rotation that didn’t have the names Moseley and Nova in it. (I love those guys, but I’m making a point about the hand he’s been dealing with.)

    And there is nobody on this forum who will ever convince me that they wouldn’t have been screaming for Joe to be impeached immediately if he had put Joba in the game and Joba served up the winning run. The screams would have been about why he didn’t use X instead (and face it, someone’s X would have been Mitre because he was a fresh arm.)

    Because the team has been underperforming badly, fans ae desperate for a win. When a win doesn’t happen, Girardi always will get the hit.

  68. upstate kate September 14th, 2010 at 11:11 am

    a few wins in a row would make this blog a much happier place :)

    I think Joe has made a few questionable decisions, but it is by no means all his fault.

  69. 108 stitches September 14th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    There’s a difference between a speedy runner and a runner with good basestealing instincts. Gardner needs to be taught instincts by somebody like Mickey Rivers or whoever else can show him.

  70. RayVT September 14th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Hi Trisha!

    I have no qualms with putting Mitre in to pitch. Mitre’s pitch was suspect, but everyone is human.

    Joe G seems to be getting tight so to speak as he is barking at reporters and juggling lineups as if it is a puzzle and only he knows if its a masterpiece.

    Moving Cano to 2nd in the lineup was strange. He has hit 5th or 4th all year and done well. Just because he is tired doesn’t mean you move him to 2nd in the lineup.

    Gardner trying to steal 3B with 2 outs is wierd. I have wanted him to attempt to steal 2B more and early in a count & way too many times he doesn’t even appear to be thinking about doing that.

    Granderson being given the bunt sign with 2 balls & 0 strikes with a runner on 1B is wierd too.

    Lastly, not having extra guys on the bench (2nd LHP) seems like a lack of good use of the expanded rosters.

  71. upstate kate September 14th, 2010 at 11:18 am

    that is a good point 108, GGBG does not seem to have good instincts.
    I know you never want to make the 3rd out stealing 3rd, but isn’t it possible in the back of his mind he remembered Johnny Damon’s double steal against the Phillies last year, and was hoping for a similar result.

  72. zippy September 14th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Lets beat up cashman on this blog !

  73. clownthrowindown September 14th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    longtimefan,

    Good point. There are some games that you need to win for reasons other than just the standings. Last night was ace vs. ace for first place…a classic showdown…a message game…a confidence and morale game. CC was lights out then Girardi failed to go for the kill! Wonder what it was like in the TB clubhouse as opposed to NY’s last night. And today. Win or lose the division, NY can think it can beat Price when it matters, but the Rays KNOW they can win a CC game.

  74. upstate kate September 14th, 2010 at 11:21 am

    RatVT
    I though having Robbie bat 2nd was unusual as well, but who would you have put there? Swish and GGBG were both out of the line up and w/ Price being a tough lefty, you wouldn’t want Grandy there. Given the injuries, I didn’t think the line up yesterday was a bad one.

  75. Jason Voorhees September 14th, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Win or lose the division, NY can think it can beat Price when it matters, but the Rays KNOW they can win a CC game.
    ———————————-

    That logic is absolutely moronic.

    FYI The Yankees are responsible for Price’s worst game of the season.

    Reread your sentence. The logic is faulty at best.

  76. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Doreen, I really want to tip my cap to you. You have made a yeoperson’s (politically correct :) ) effort at continuing to explain why you and others have been able to understand moves being made that others haven’t thought to be the correct ones, and you’ve framed it – at least I think you have – in terms of Girardi dealing with a team that isn’t finding ways to get the job done. Girardi can’t go out there and play for them, but he can keep attempting to move pieces around in an attempt to jump start things.

    And while posters may have the play book out and “know” what needs to be done in any given situation, Girardi’s job transcends any given situation. He needs to be thinking about that play, and that inning, and the rest of the game, and tomorrow, and next week, and next month. Posters on a forum definitely aren’t doing the same, and it’s understandable that they are not. But what they need to understand is that a manager doesn’t have the luxury of jumping over the checker and saying “kinger me!” and letting it end there. There are other checkers that the other manager is moving while that one play is happening, and there are other boards being set up for future games. It isn’t always as easy as posters make it out to be. They may know the right move in a static situation, but a manager is never dealing with a static situation.

    My hope is that the relatively moribund offense picks up the pace. I’m not blaming the offense because the season has been a game of dominoes, with the starting rotation fail kicking off the whole thing. I’m also not blaming the starting rotation since I have to believe that none of them go out there trying to lose games. The team hasn’t performed the way it has needed to, and all facets end up suffering eventually when that happens. You don’t stay in first place for the majority of the season when your rotation isn’t getting the job done, without all other parts of your team eventually laboring. We’re seeing it in action. Credit to Girardi that he has been able to keep the team in first in spite of the deficiencies. I’m hoping we’re back in first at the end of the day.

    And make no doubt about it. We do not have a cakewalk schedule. That’s the unfortunate luck of the draw, especially under the circumstances in which we find ourselves.

  77. TheStraw September 14th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    “I just have this numbing feeling. The wild card magic number is still at 12. I hope this is not like the end of the 2000 regular season again.”

    I would rather it be like 2000 then the 2007 Mets season end.

  78. Chip September 14th, 2010 at 11:30 am

    There’s a very simple way to explain Girardi’s decision:

    He knows that the Yankees are going to make the playoffs; if not as the division winner then as the Wild Card team – he’s been working his best relievers pretty hard lately due to bad starting pitching and feels they needed a break.

    He had to play Cano in the 2 spot because with Swisher and Brett hurt the only other option would have been Granderson who doesn’t really do well against LHP.

    Gardner trying to steal 3b is dumb…he’s been around long enough to know that if you’re gonna try you have to make it. I chalk it up to a brain freeze on his part.

    In other news – Billy Madden makes me laugh. He wants the Mets to hire Kevin Towers as GM and Lee Mazilli as Manager because he thinks both will lend credibility to the organization.

    Towers I get – though with Omar still on the books I don’t see the Wilpons shelling out the money to bring him in. But Maz being credible as a manager is a joke. He was awful with the O’s, true he was saddled with a coaching staff not of his choosing, but that doesn’t excuse everything.

    I would personally target Larry Bowa; with Torre likely stepping away from the Dodgers his coaching staff should be up for grabs. The Mets need a no nonsense guy who won’t let players like Reyes or Beltran get away with dogging it.

    Speaking of Torre’s coaching staff – I think Don Mattingly is going to wind up working for the O’s next year for Buck. He’s not getting the Dodgers’ job, I don’t see any other good fits for him. He should go to the minors to manage down there, but I don’t think his pride will allow for that.

    If Tony LaRussa does leave the Cards (as has been rumored) I wouldn’t be shocked for Torre to wind up there (if he does; that could be a landing spot for Mattingly). Remember, Torre was replaced by LaRussa as manager there (well actually Mike Jorgenson took over for Torre, but he was only an interim manager)

  79. clownthrowindown September 14th, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Jason Vorhees,

    You never played sports, did you?

    I am in NO WAY saying that NY can’t beat Price (I thought they’d win last night). But last night was bigger than just the typical W or L from a momentum and morale standpoint.

    Last night was a statement game. CC did his part, Girardi rolled over.

  80. upstate kate September 14th, 2010 at 11:35 am

    Ray
    sorry to have mis-spelled your name…in no way do I think you are a rat :)

  81. Don Vito A. Bellamo September 14th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    “I screwed up,” Gardner said. “And I take full responsibility.” <—- What GIRARDI should say about how he managed the last 8 games, but you will NEVER hear those words out of his mouth.

  82. Bret The Hitman September 14th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    G. Love September 14th, 2010 at 9:18 am
    I think one of my biggest questions is what is going on with the selection of players with this team over the years that is causing this inability to get base hits?

    This has been happening here for awhile. In the late Torre years we all were frustrated as the team was either walking or waiting for 3 run HR’s.

    Now the team, again, seems incapable of stringing together base hits with any modicum of consistency.

    Is this the trap you fall in when you place high premium on OBP?

    Does high OBP make the team passive?

    I don’t understand the utter inability to hit for any sort of average.

    That said, Jeter, Tex and Arod’s averages are all lower than they should be so that explains some of it.

    But getting hits other than HR’s has been a problem here for awhile.

    It’s why there was a constant hue and cry here for guys who could put the ball in play and do positive things with outs.
    ***************************

    Excellent post.

    I suspect Cashman and company have failed to place a premium on batting average.

    I understand it’s not the end-all-be-all stat but there needs to be more contact to compliment the power/patience model of offense.

    This lineup is desperate for at least one or two additional contact hitters who will round out the offensive attack and provide some balance and consistency.

    That’s why I’ve been firmly in the pro-Crawford camp since day one.

  83. TheStraw September 14th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Look, I have always felt Girardi was a good manager. It is true that his decisions are being affected by the lack of offense, injuries and inconsistency in the rotation. Those things are not Joe’s fault.

    What upsets me about Joe is that he always seems to be managing for the next game rather than the one he is in at the present. This may have been a good tactic last year when the team had a comfortable lead, but I’m not so sure that it is working in the middle of a heated race for the division and with the next contender for the wildcard still hanging around in striking distance.

    Whatever happened to ” We play today, we win today, dassit!” Worry about winning today’s game, get that one in the left column, and then you can afford to make adjustments in the next game or third game of a series. That has been the decision making all year up until the last few weeks. This just seems more like the prevent defense in football, which often prevents a win.

  84. Yankee44 September 14th, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Bringing Mitre into a 0-0 extra inning game when there are other options is a FAR more impossible to explain decision than Gardner trying to swipe 3rd.

  85. Cashman needs to go September 14th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    zippy September 14th, 2010 at 11:19 am
    Lets beat up cashman on this blog !

    **************

    where do I sign up for that? :-)

  86. Jim September 14th, 2010 at 11:41 am

    RayVT wrote:

    Idiotic plays like that can take the life out of a team very quickly

    ———

    in order for that to happen there had to be some life to begin with. We’ve all seen Gardner win games with his legs, as I said last night there was probably a better chance of the catcher or pitcher throwing the ball away to 3rd than Kearns (3 for his last 35) getting a hit in that situation. Either way I consider it a positive sign any time Gardner decides to be over aggressive on the bases. That’s what we’ve all been desperate to see from him.

  87. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Trisha -

    The pieces all work together either well or poorly. If one part is really failing, it’s definitely going to have an effect on another part. It’s pointless to assign “blame,” because I don’t think anyone here is not trying to do their job, not trying win games. Rather, it is the responsibility of all the parts involved to figure out what they need to do, perhaps a little differently, to get off this treadmill.

    They have one more homestand to right the ship before going back to Tampa and Boston.

  88. The Genius Maker September 14th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    Hello everyone, I have not posted on here yet, but have read a little of this blog over the past few weeks based on some of the people who go to my website mentioned they came from here. You have some good posters on here and it is interesting reading (digging through all the absurd posts). My site is not a blog site it is mostly a one way street of information (with an occasional response from some people).

    BTW, my screen name is a tribute to Mariano Rivera was makes his managers look like a Genius by bailing them out…(started with Torre).

    Onto the terrible slump the Yankees and their manager are on. Girardi’s job is to put the team in the best position to win games and he simply has failed at this over the past 2 weeks or so.

    The bad decisions with the bullpen created a ripple effect that he still can’t get out of.

    The incessant lineup changes, resting guys at weird times while resisting resting Jeter for more than one day (or heaven forbid dropping a .700 OPS guy out of the 2 hole for awhile) has given the Yankees a disjointed offensive performance.

    To last nights well pitched game…

    Why, would you use Gaudin so often and not use sinker baller Mitre to keep him sharp and then in arguably the biggest series to date pitch Gaudin and Mitre before exhausting Joba (who hadn’t pitched in 2 games) and Robertson who had a days rest as well? And if for some silly reason you were not going to use Joba/Robertson no matter what, then you must extend Logan for more than 1 out and you should try and extend Wood for more than 12 pitches. Girardi has been very inconsistent with his approaches of late and his BS excuses don’t fly.

    One item that was not discussed much was the Granderson AB. Once the count was 2-0, I wanted him to swing away. Actually, I didn’t want him to bunt as a sac doesn’t guarantee that much being the away team, but once we had the 2-0 count and the defense was charging and the pitcher would be trying to groove a pitch, I take my chances swinging.

    The ironic thing is while Mitre was supposed to go low and away he actually put the pitch in a decent place as it was low and in and probably a ball…I am not mad at Mitre, I am annoyed that the series of events prior and honestly we were lucky to get out of previous inning bases loaded jam. On that note, not having a 2nd lefty in the pen is absurd. Hawpe should not be facing Gaudin in that spot; you have to have another lefty and the Yankees better bring one up from the minors ASAP because while Joe deserves a heap of criticism of late, he is handcuffed with only one lefty in the pen.

    If you would like to visit my Yankee Ramblings please do so at http://www.stevewigdor.blogspot.com

  89. TheStraw September 14th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    And frankly, Tampa is being managed with the same lack of urgency. David Price was quoted last night as saying that this was the equivalent of a playoff game. That attitude comes directly from Maddon, who stated that the Rays would do everything possible to win these games because they wanted the division.

    Compare and contrast that to telling the media that guys “are not available” and that ” we lost the battle so that we can win the war”

    Does no one see the difference between these two approaches and the effect it is having on team play?

  90. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    though I certainly hope they right the ship before the homestand! :)

  91. TheStraw September 14th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Meant to say Tampa is NOT being managed with same lack of urgency.

  92. Tom in N.J. September 14th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    I didn’t realize it was dissertation day on the LOHUD.

  93. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    “Hi Trisha!

    I have no qualms with putting Mitre in to pitch. Mitre’s pitch was suspect, but everyone is human.

    Joe G seems to be getting tight so to speak as he is barking at reporters and juggling lineups as if it is a puzzle and only he knows if its a masterpiece.

    Moving Cano to 2nd in the lineup was strange. He has hit 5th or 4th all year and done well. Just because he is tired doesn’t mean you move him to 2nd in the lineup.

    Gardner trying to steal 3B with 2 outs is wierd. I have wanted him to attempt to steal 2B more and early in a count & way too many times he doesn’t even appear to be thinking about doing that.

    Granderson being given the bunt sign with 2 balls & 0 strikes with a runner on 1B is wierd too.

    Lastly, not having extra guys on the bench (2nd LHP) seems like a lack of good use of the expanded rosters.”

    *****************

    Ray, yet I can give you a counter to each of those things, or at least I can try to. And therein would lie the saying that there are three sides to every story – mine, yours, and the truth.

    ;)

    Don’t blame Girardi for barking at reporters. You can understand a manager under the largest microscope in the majors whose team has lost 4 in a row and has just lost a heartbreaker (which we know could have gone either way) being short of patience since his decisions are questioned on a daily basis. He’s human.

    Juggling lineups is one of the best ways to attempt to jump start a team that is struggling and face it only he really knows the situations with each of his players.

    I think moving Cano in the lineup was to try to take some pressure off him. If you read last night’s pregame posts, a lot of people liked the move. It’s only after a move doesn’t work that people become critics of it – not meaning you here.

    Gardner did what Gardner did. Girardi in his postgame interview said he had talked to him about it. Girardi did not appear happy with the move. Gardner may have made the wrong decision but he was probably thinking what ever other Yankee was thinking in the current situation. Let me try to do something to get something going. Players don’t always make the right moves, and face if, the New York Yankee team is under a lot more pressure than are fans on a forum behind a keyboard. If you think they are playing cool, calm, and collected right now, I would differ with that interpretation. They are tight as a drum and maybe some of their decisions are reflecting that. I find it hard to blame anyone for making a mistake. They don’t go out there intending to screw up.

    About Granderson being given the bunt sign. Could it have been an attempt at the unanticipated, a way to try to ambush the other team? I really have no answer for that and don’t know whether Girardi was questioned and what he said. That could have been a screw up.

    About not having another LHP. I definitely can’t argue with you on that!

    **************

    When we were in high school a friend set up an astrology party where some woman read our charts. We didn’t have a clue what it was about and it was just something fun to do. I remember the woman telling me I had Libra rising (that may mean something to people who study astrology) and that I would always attempt to find fairness and balance in situations. That has certainly been a way of life for me.

    :)

  94. YankeeBlue222 September 14th, 2010 at 11:47 am

    I’ve always been a big Girardi supporter, but ever since the trade deadline when Girardi has had additional “toys” to work with, I think he has completely overmanaged this team.

    The fact that Granderson would be bunting against Balfour on a 2-0 count with a rookie on deck is absolutely asinine. There’s no other way to explain it.

    It’s not very rational to harp on one lost game, but the way it ended, the Rays have all of the momentum right now.

    And let’s face it, the way we’ve been playing lately, (and the uncertainty of Swish and Gardner) and the fact there are still 6 games left against the Sox, a playoff spot is not completely guaranteed.

  95. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Umpires, Umpires, Umpires!

    Get fair umpires, assure the Yankees of the World Series.

    Umpires, Umpires, Umpires!

  96. pat September 14th, 2010 at 11:47 am

    “Gardner needs to be taught instincts by somebody like Mickey Rivers or whoever else can show him.”

    Instincts can’t be taught but he can work on being smarter in using what he has.

    He has 3 really smart baserunners for teammates in Tex, Derek and Alex. He should be tapping into those resources if he isn’t.

  97. clownthrowindown September 14th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    TheStraw,

    Exactly. Managing moves aside, there’s a leadership issue with Girardi.

  98. G. Love September 14th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    I think in the future, Cashman has to definitely place a premium on finding a few contact guys for the everyday lineup.

    Losing Damon’s output from last year has hurt as he hit for average in addition to power and on base.

    The team doesn’t just need guys to get on base. They need guys to clearly knock those guys in.

    Hopefully Montero, if he’s a DH, has the ability to hit for average and power and start getting the ducks off the pond so to speak.

    In addition to him though, there’s need to be another contact hitter brought in who can situationally hit.

    Berkman, if he can keep hitting for average, should help in his platoon the rest of the season.

  99. MiketheGardnerfan September 14th, 2010 at 11:50 am

    I admire Gardner’s guts. Everyone is saying that he should have stayed put on second but had he been safe at third itwould have given the team a better opportunity to win the game. Girardi can’t manage a game to save his life. Why would you EVER ask Granderson to bunt on a 2-0 pitch against a righty? They would have had a better chance to score a run on a base hit to right field. Using Gaudin and Mitre in a scoreless tie against the team battling the Yankees for first place was stupid. Maddon didn’t use his long men like Qualls or Hellickson because he knew that the game would be tight and a mistake could cost them the game. Girardi insists on resting people every other day and sending a AAA player to bat against David Price and pitching guys that give up more hits than outs.

  100. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    As many have stated Joe has made some bizarre moves.. However Gardner stole third on his own.. That was on him

  101. jacksquat September 14th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 11:46 am
    “Hi Trisha!

    I have no qualms with putting Mitre in to pitch. Mitre’s pitch was suspect, but everyone is human.

    Joe G seems to be getting tight so to speak as he is barking at reporters and juggling lineups as if it is a puzzle and only he knows if its a masterpiece.

    Moving Cano to 2nd in the lineup was strange. He has hit 5th or 4th all year and done well. Just because he is tired doesn’t mean you move him to 2nd in the lineup.

    Gardner trying to steal 3B with 2 outs is wierd. I have wanted him to attempt to steal 2B more and early in a count & way too many times he doesn’t even appear to be thinking about doing that.

    Granderson being given the bunt sign with 2 balls & 0 strikes with a runner on 1B is wierd too.

    Lastly, not having extra guys on the bench (2nd LHP) seems like a lack of good use of the expanded rosters.”

    *****************

    Ray, yet I can give you a counter to each of those things, or at least I can try to. And therein would lie the saying that there are three sides to every story – mine, yours, and the truth.

    Don’t blame Girardi for barking at reporters. You can understand a manager under the largest microscope in the majors whose team has lost 4 in a row and has just lost a heartbreaker (which we know could have gone either way) being short of patience since his decisions are questioned on a daily basis. He’s human.

    Juggling lineups is one of the best ways to attempt to jump start a team that is struggling and face it only he really knows the situations with each of his players.

    I think moving Cano in the lineup was to try to take some pressure off him. If you read last night’s pregame posts, a lot of people liked the move. It’s only after a move doesn’t work that people become critics of it – not meaning you here.

    Gardner did what Gardner did. Girardi in his postgame interview said he had talked to him about it. Girardi did not appear happy with the move. Gardner may have made the wrong decision but he was probably thinking what ever other Yankee was thinking in the current situation. Let me try to do something to get something going. Players don’t always make the right moves, and face if, the New York Yankee team is under a lot more pressure than are fans on a forum behind a keyboard. If you think they are playing cool, calm, and collected right now, I would differ with that interpretation. They are tight as a drum and maybe some of their decisions are reflecting that. I find it hard to blame anyone for making a mistake. They don’t go out there intending to screw up.

    About Granderson being given the bunt sign. Could it have been an attempt at the unanticipated, a way to try to ambush the other team? I really have no answer for that and don’t know whether Girardi was questioned and what he said. That could have been a screw up.

    About not having another LHP. I definitely can’t argue with you on that!

    **************

    When we were in high school a friend set up an astrology party where some woman read our charts. We didn’t have a clue what it was about and it was just something fun to do. I remember the woman telling me I had Libra rising (that may mean something to people who study astrology) and that I would always attempt to find fairness and balance in situations. That has certainly been a way of life for me.

    My pure Libra trumps your Libra rising, and I say your blind faith in Girardi is illogical. :razz:

    Plus I’m Scorpio rising so watch it!

  102. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Ken – No, Gardner stealing 3rd was on the………………………………………..wait for it……………………umpires!

  103. The Genius Maker September 14th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    I did want to make one comment about Gardner’s bad play getting thrown out. It was a very bad play without question, but people make it sound like you should never try and steal 3rd with 2 outs. As it was, it took a perfect throw (from the pitcher) and a very agile and quick tag on the move by Longoria to barely get Gardner…in fact, if he slid low and to the home plate side and reached in with his right hand he might have made it.

    Of course, the question is what value do you add when standing on 3rd and the answer is not much. However, being on 3rd absolutely changes the pitchers approach; that doesn’t mean they won’t throw a breaking ball, but they are less likely to snap one off into the dirt and a little let up can make a difference. Also, if the pitcher delivered the pitch there is always a chance the throw goes into the OF and he would stole a run.

    I am not saying it was a good move, in fact, my stance is if you are going to do it you better make it, but I am pointing out that you shouldn’t just stand on 2nd base if you know you can take 3rd. bad play, but I don’t consider that a play that lost the game for the Yanks.

  104. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    After looking at the picture on top of this thread, does anyone else think that if Brett Gardner continues to slide head first, he is going to continue having thumb problems? And it probably didn’t help his wrist to heal any faster?

  105. CB September 14th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    “I suspect Cashman and company have failed to place a premium on batting average.”

    The Yankees had the second highest team batting average in baseball in 2009.

    This year they are 7nth in all of baseball in batting average.

    It’s not so much that the organization has systematically “failed” to premium on batting average – given what they did last year that’s simply not true.

    Rather the issue is that this cohort of players on this 2010 have for different reasons been generating base hits at a lower rate in aggregate.

    And the main cause of that is the unexpected drop off in batting average of several key players such as Jeter, Teixeira, Alex and Posada. In addition needing to play light hitting back ups so often who don’t get many basehits – like Cervelli and Pena has also hurt this team’s ability to bet base hits like they did last season a great deal.

    It’s the player performance more than organizational priority setting that’s driving this.

    The Yankees – unlike several other organizations – have actually done a better job of not only getting guys with high OBP – but guys with high OBP and high batting averages. Just compare the yankees to the Rays in that department.

  106. pat September 14th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    “Everyone is saying that he should have stayed put on second but had he been safe at third itwould have given the team a better opportunity to win the game.”

    A wild pitch is probably the only difference of him being on 2nd or 3rd with 2 outs.

  107. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Yes cr the umpires gave him the steal sign

  108. TheStraw September 14th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    clown-

    Does this mean I am officially on the dark side since you are agreeing with me? (:

  109. Doreen September 14th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Genius Maker -

    Why don’t you consider it a play that may have lost the game for the Yankees? He took them out of the inning altogether. Even if he was safe, he didn’t add much by being on third. No one knows if Kearns would have gotten a hit. You can’t assume he wouldn’t have, same as you can’t assume he would have.

    It may not have been the only play that turned the game, but it was one of them, in my opinion.

  110. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes September 14th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    You have to tip your cap to David Price and the Rays. They came out on top and as much as we needed the win, all is not lost. Just have to bounce back tonight.

    With that, I really think injuries are starting to play a significant part in our season. Swisher can’t continue going out there with a balky knee. He needs time to heal. Then you have Gardner who can’t swing a bat. Pettitte is on the DL, due back Sunday. I just think that the assorted injuries have finally taken their toll by wearing down various players. As much as I’d like to see Jeter just snap out of it, dude needs a breather. Sit him down for a few days, let him work with Kevin Long. Whatever the issue is, it needs to be addressed before the playoffs.

    I hope we play Minnesota in the first round.

  111. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    “My pure Libra trumps your Libra rising, and I say your blind faith in Girardi is illogical.

    Plus I’m Scorpio rising so watch it!”

    :lol:

    I guarantee you that it is your Scorpio rising that is saying that my faith in Girardi is illogical!

    The same astrologer told me that I had the “most satisfactory of natures” with sun in Sagittarius (sp?) and Libra rising. It may drive others crazy but it certainly allows me to enjoy life and always believe that good things are right around the corner!

  112. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Ken – They did. They were telling Shoppach that they were not going to allow us to get a hit, and Brett overheard that, so he knew he had to get to 3rd and hope to score on a wild pitch. :)

  113. SJ44 September 14th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    You can be a good manager and have a bad week.

    Just like good players have bad weeks.

    The Baghdad Bob approach some have with Girardi has reached moronic levels.

    There is no consistency in the moves he’s made in the last week.

    Personally, I’m not in the camp of “settling” for the WC for reasons I’ve stated over and over.

    However, if that’s what he thinks is best for the team, then be consistent about it.

    Don’t burn out Mo in Texas while “resting” core bullpen guys last night.

    Don’t play Swisher until he’s 100%.

    Rest Cano more and Arod less because Cano is dragging and Arod needs the AB’s.

    It’s about showing CONSISTENCY in your moves.

    He’s not doing that and it’s hurting the team.

    If folks disagree, let’s just agree to disagree.

    What isn’t going to fly though is, “Don’t criticize Girardi. He’s the Yankee manager and he knows best”.

    Given the team’s current situation, the jury is out on the above statement.

  114. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    I also like Gardner’s aggressiveness and just wish it had come sooner! May it continue and may it be well placed!

  115. 108 stitches September 14th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    The Yankees will face either Texas or Minnesota in the ALDS. Only Lady Luck will be able to help Girardi if Boone Logan has been used already and the situation requires having a lefthander face the likes of Josh Hamilton, David Murphy, Joe Mauer and Jim Thome in a close game in the 9th inning.
    So what if Javy Vazques isn’t on the postseason roster and complains ? He’s not in any 2011 plans anyway.

  116. The Genius Maker September 14th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Actually your rising sign is more important than your birth sign…

    Trisha, I think you are giving Girardi a little too much of a pass. there are tons of decisions that don’t work out that were good ones and some bad ones that may work out, but in the long run, you need to make more good decisions. For example, using gaudin was a bad decision and staying with him against Hawpe was a bad idea, but we got out of it…Batting Cano 2nd didn’t work out but that didn’t make it a terrible move.

    We have a tendency to look out the outcome and when it goes bad we say it is a bad move, but as I think it was Rich in NJ stated, it isn’t 2nd guessing if you said it before it happened. This is the case with Granderson not swinging away on a 2-0 count.

  117. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Great post sj agree 100

  118. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    “What isn’t going to fly though is, “Don’t criticize Girardi. He’s the Yankee manager and he knows best”.

    Given the team’s current situation, the jury is out on the above statement.”

    I’m fine with the jury being out. Let’s see how things play out.

  119. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    I cant fault Brett Gardner for a mistake. He’s such a cutie. Kind of a big head, but nice hair, beeeautiful eyes, and great smile!

  120. G. Love September 14th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    CB,

    I agree that the current lot of players underperforming has taken a dent in batting average.

    But I also see the off season acquisitions and departures contributing to that.

    Nick Johnson, if healthy, was always an OBP machine but never really was that with average and power in the total pacakage.

    Granderson as well just came off a year hitting .240 and worse against lefties.

    Swapping them for Damon and Matsui pretty much insured that batting average was going to take a hit while hopefully power would stay the same (if Granderson hit 30-40) and OBP would increase.

    This swap alone and the way it’s played out has decreased the length in the lineup along with guys who had better batting averages.

    Add in that failure with Jeter, Tex, Arod and Posada all not hitting to the back of their baseball cards and that’s why our offense has turned into a Giambi type offense built on walks and HR’s.

    I can see Cashman making some interesting moves in the off season that may surprise people to mitigate this from happening again with the offense.

    This team needs more .280 hitters than .260 hitters.

  121. Bret The Hitman September 14th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    G. Love September 14th, 2010 at 11:48 am
    I think in the future, Cashman has to definitely place a premium on finding a few contact guys for the everyday lineup.

    **************

    I agree. I hope Crawford and Montero will add contact to the lineup to go along with patience, power, speed and defense.

    Hopefully, both of them can hit .300 with regularity.

    Cano will hit over .300 for his career.

    Jeter can hopefully hit .300 over the next 3 or 4 seasons.

    Tex, Arod, Swisher and Granderson can provide the power.

  122. Wave Your Hat September 14th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    In retrospect, the only beef I have with Girardi last night is the Granderson bunt. The Gaudin and Mitre decisions were driven by the unavailability of Robertson and Chamberlain, and without any special knowledge I have to believe in Girardi there.

    IMO, all the criticism Joe has been getting with respect to the lineups is unfair. Without really knowing the status of SWisher, how can you criticize the decision not to use him? Same with ARod or Gardner. I wish the Yankees would be more forthcoming about injuries, but I don’t see how you blame that on Girardi, it’s an organizational thing.

    And the caution comes from the organization, not Girardi. Pettitte is a perfect example of this. Girardi didn’t determine the second rehab start, the organization did. To me, that shows the source of the caution as respects Swisher, Chamberlain, ARod, Gardner etc. is not primarily Girardi.

  123. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    WYH – Agreed. The Granderson bunt was the only thing that i considered to be complete mismanagement.

  124. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Well cr if there was a wild pitch.. The ump would have stopped the ball given it to the catcher and tag garnder out at home

  125. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Im doing something differently today than Ive done in recent memory – for good luck. I fully expect the Yankees to win tonight.

  126. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Ken – True. Very true. If the ball had gotten to the backstop, the umpire would have just taken a new ball, handed it to Shoppach or just tagged out Gardy himself :lol:

  127. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Yeah I don’t get the ” don’t get on girardi group” is it his fault the yanks are struggling no.. Has he had a good 8 days no

  128. Wave Your Hat September 14th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    “Nick Johnson, if healthy, was always an OBP machine but never really was that with average and power in the total pacakage.”

    “This team needs more .280 hitters than .260 hitters.”

    Nick Johnson is as much of a lock for a .280 hitter as one can imagine. The problem with Nick was his injury history, not his ability to hit.

  129. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    CR9 says:
    September 14, 2010 at 12:09 pm
    Ken – True. Very true. If the ball had gotten to the backstop, the umpire would have just taken a new ball, handed it to Shoppach or just tagged out Gardy himself
    —-
    I just fell out of my chair

  130. clownthrowindown September 14th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    TheStraw,

    Don’t feel bad…lots of folks on the dark side after last night!

  131. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    Was there just a nick Johnson post? Who is this nick Johnson character

  132. The Genius Maker September 14th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Hi Doreen,

    My take was more that one individual play probably doesn’t cost us a game as one could point to numerous huge plays. I do agree that it might have been a big out, but if he stayed on 2nd base, he might not have scored anyway. People say only a WP/PB would have made a difference with Gardner on 3rd and I say that is not true. It does impact the pitcher a little on what and how he throws things and also an infield hit would score a run. Clearly there is a good reason why the adage of don’t make the 1st or last out at 3rd base is written, but people also say a walk is as good as s hit and that is obviously not true as well.

    It was a bad play, but how many other chances or events happened that were huge. i would argue that the 1st pitch strike to ARod that was a on the batters box line changed that important AB and was a huge event…

    That being said, you have every right to be annoyed at a dumb play.

  133. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Ken – LOL! Im glad I got a laugh out of someone!

  134. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Did I mention that I have a CReepy CRazy CRush on Gardy and his gigantic head!

  135. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Yeah I mean last night sucked however this blog is wrapped to tight relax all

  136. CB September 14th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    “This team needs more .280 hitters than .260 hitters.”

    I think the major issue is that the Yankees may now need to accelerate the transition to a new generation of multi-dimensional offensive players.

    And that’s going to be extremely difficult to do.

    For the past 15 years the yankees have had a SS and Catcher who not only can hit – but have been remarkably balanced offensive players. They could not only hit for average but they got on base at extremely high rates given their positions and could also hit for terrific power.

    How many of those players have there been at those 2 positions in the entire history of the game? Off the top of my head I’d guess fewer than 15.

    The Yankees had those 2 players on the team at the same time for 15 years. That’s just an amazing historical anomaly.

    And I’m not sure it can be reproduced.

    Getting guys who hit for batting average is important – but not in an isolated fashion. The key to the yankees success has always been a strong distribution between batting average, getting on base and hitting for power, with a particular emphasis on power and getting on base. That has nothing to do with sabermetrics, etc. That goes back to the 1920′s and 1930′s.

    It just very difficult to find those players – especially at up the middle positions.

  137. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Does he have a big head? A la Kevin mench?

  138. Bret The Hitman September 14th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    CB,

    I agree that the underperforming players are largely to blame, particularly Jeter. He’s hitting more than 40 points below his career average and that has been catastrophic.

    Tex is streaky by nature though.

    Posada and Arod are sluggers and should see their averages drop as they age.

    If the opportunity presents itself for Cashman to add a surefire contact hitter, he shouldn’t hesitate to pull the trigger.

    Losing just one contact like Jeter can really damage the offense long term on a daily basis.

    It should be priority to insert a high average guy in the lineup long term and that will mitigate the aging of Jeter.

  139. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    When all is said is done, the Yankees will either be 28 time World Champions or will not be solely because of the umpires. So bashing Girardi or Jeter, Grandy, Alex, or any Yankee is pointless

  140. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Gardy doesnt have a big head like Kevin Mench. But his head is enormous for his own body. Mench’s was just enormous. Gardy’s is just too big for his body.

  141. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Genius Maker, I undertand what you are saying but here’s the problem. Because you, I, Rich in NJ, or anyone else says that something is the case does not necessarily make it the case. And because Rich or anyone else may say something before it happens – and yes, then it certainly isn’t second-guessing – doesn’t meant he was on the right track.

    I still say it is easy for someone to sit behind a keyboard and decide what move “should” be made in a certain situation, but that person is merely looking at the situation at hand. Managers are looking 20 plays down the road, and they need to do that. Whether or not they make the best decisions at any point in time will always be open to debate.

    Since I tend in life to be much more macro than micro, I don’t get down in the weeds on a decision-by-decision basis. I think Girardi did well to keep a more-often-than-not flailing team in first place. He didn’t do anything to cause the starting rotation to have problems, nor did he do anything to cause the offense to have an off year. So I’m okay with looking ast the overall picture and believing he’s done more than okay by this team and is dealing with the unfortunate residuals of an uneven season, on a daily basis.

    That doesn’t mean that every move he makes in every game is the perfect move or the right move. I don’t think any manager holds that record. But on balance I certainly think they’ve been more right than wrong, despite what any rule book might tell you about any certain situation at any certain point in time. If managers had the luxury of looking at situations in a vacuum, the way fans on a forum do, the good ones would have a 162-0 record.

  142. The Genius Maker September 14th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    I agree with SJ, the non consistency of Girardi has been glaringly obvious. I also believe that Girardi is kind of FOS and this is what makes it inconsistent. His moves don;t make sense so he makes up some BS excuse and then you say to yourself, that is inconsistent because you just managed differently the prior series…that is my issue.

    The truth is the manager who can do it all is not easy to find. Torre was good with the players and the media and managing the Yankee Chaos, but he was bad at the bullpen and a lot of the X and O management. Girardi is usually good with the bullpen and decent with his X and O management but struggles with his stories to the media and is OK with the players. Overall, Joe is still a little raw, but he has a little more to work with than Torre. Torre wasn’t FOS until he left though and that part rubs me the wrong way about Girardi. BTW, I mentioned this about Girardi on my website early in the year.

    The issue is this losing streak exacerbates all our feelings

  143. Wave Your Hat September 14th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    JMO, but I would much prefer an on-base/power driven offense to a batting average driven one. On-base+power is a historically much more reliable and consistent producer of runs.

    The Yanks’ problem is the lack of productive offensive players right now. Last night, with Tex and Cano in slumps, Granderson facing a lefty, and Gardner and Swisher sitting, the Yanks were basically down to ARod, Thames, Posada and Hope. Against a David Price or a Cliff Lee, that isn’t going to score many runs.

    Tonight we’ll have the same issue. Granderson will be facing a righty, which is good, but it will be offset by Posada probably sitting.

  144. Ken Phelps September 14th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    New rule all posts less than one paragraph or in bullet form only

  145. Wave Your Hat September 14th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    CB-

    I would start by trying to trade pitching (including Hughes if necessary) for a young good hitting outfielder like Rasmus. I’d move Granderson if necessary to get it done.

  146. CB September 14th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    “If the opportunity presents itself for Cashman to add a surefire contact hitter, he shouldn’t hesitate to pull the trigger.”

    If he has the opportunity to get a true multi-dimensional hitter then no he shouldn’t hesitate. Batting average is important but not in isolation.

    The player the yankees need now are ones who can provide the kind of balanced offensive approaches that Jeter and Posada have had for so long.

    They shouldn’t try to start replacing that production with more restricted production from guys with more limited skill sets.

    And I don’t think that kind of player is going to be available on the free agent market at a price that makes sense this winter. So that player will likely need to come by a trade if he comes at all.

    This is partly why I wanted the team to seriously consider Matt Holliday last winter. There’s no one of that stature available this year or perhaps even in 2012. That’s the kind of hitter the yankees are best built on.

  147. TheStraw September 14th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    “Managers are looking 20 plays down the road, and they need to do that”

    Trisha, this is generally true, and I don’t have a problem as much with him doing it against Baltimore, Toronto, or even Texas to some degree.

    Doing it against Tampa, however, at the expense of a winnable game really bothers me.

    I will try not to worry. I believe they will turn it around. But it wouldn’t hurt Joe and the coaching staff to show some fire regarding their ultimate goals and not make statements like HFA is not everything or we lost the battle but will win the war. These may be true, but for Mo’s sake don’t admit to the media.

  148. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Ken – New Rule. All posts have to mention one umpire by name and include Red Sox as said umpire’s middle name. For example, Tim Red Sox McClelland

  149. Wave Your Hat September 14th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    “The Yankees had those 2 players on the team at the same time for 15 years. That’s just an amazing historical anomaly.”

    Don’t forget Bernie. He is gone but should not be forgotten. The key to the 1996-2003 teams was C-SS-CF, not just C and SS. And C-SS-CF is almost a once-in-a-lifetime thing (if you are lucky, and we were).

  150. Bret The Hitman September 14th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    WYH,

    I don’t think anyone is calling for an offense driven by batting average.

    Looking at the lineup long term it’s easy to identify a deficiency in batting average though.

    Posada is not capable of hitting .300 and he’ll be gone soon.

    Arod’s average will continue to fall as he ages.

    Jeter might be able to hit .300 for the next 3 or 4 years but if he can’t, it makes for a more inconsistent offense.

    Cano is the only surefire contact hitter in this lineup in the long term view.

    Cashman should add 1 or 2 contact guys to bring balance to what I consider an OBP/power driven lineup in the long term view.

    I’m not calling for Cashman to gut the entire offense.

    .300 hitters are rare as it is.

  151. The Genius Maker September 14th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    “This team needs more .280 hitters than .260 hitters.”
    **********
    Why are we talking about batting average, it is meaningless by itself, you need guys with better OPS, forget batting average. I think someone addressed this with a good example the other day. Guru? You can hit .200 and be a far better offensive player than someone who hits .300…I could care less about our team batting average, I want OBP and slug and that is what leads to runs being scored.

  152. CB September 14th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    “I would start by trying to trade pitching (including Hughes if necessary) for a young good hitting outfielder like Rasmus. I’d move Granderson if necessary to get it done.”

    I would too, though probably not Hughes.

    And even with Rasmus – as talented as he is, he’s not ideal. He has considerable diffculty hitting left handed pitching. He’s improved a lot this year vs. last but it’s still an issue so there’s risk there.

    It’s very tough finding that balanced offensive player. Colby Rasmus and Matt Kemp are two guys who can do that or at least you can hope will do that in the near future as they mature.

    I would trade Granderson or Gardner + pitching to get a more balanced offensive player this winter.

  153. Wave Your Hat September 14th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Bret-

    To be more clear, I don’t care about .300 hitters particularly.

  154. 108 stitches September 14th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Every year, at least 20% of the roster leaving spring training will be different. It can be speculated who the 5 new faces will be and who the 5 old faces will be that are no longer Yankees. Always allow for a surprise.

  155. CB September 14th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    “Don’t forget Bernie. He is gone but should not be forgotten.”

    Oh absolutely. You can make a real argument for Bernie being the best offensive player of those dynasty teams.

    I was just referring to the team in the state it’s in now.

    But finding 3 up the middle offensive forces that hit for average, get on base and hit for power. You could search 3 generations and not find that again.

  156. jacksquat September 14th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    CB September 14th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
    “If the opportunity presents itself for Cashman to add a surefire contact hitter, he shouldn’t hesitate to pull the trigger.”

    If he has the opportunity to get a true multi-dimensional hitter then no he shouldn’t hesitate. Batting average is important but not in isolation.

    The player the yankees need now are ones who can provide the kind of balanced offensive approaches that Jeter and Posada have had for so long.

    They shouldn’t try to start replacing that production with more restricted production from guys with more limited skill sets.

    And I don’t think that kind of player is going to be available on the free agent market at a price that makes sense this winter. So that player will likely need to come by a trade if he comes at all.

    This is partly why I wanted the team to seriously consider Matt Holliday last winter. There’s no one of that stature available this year or perhaps even in 2012. That’s the kind of hitter the yankees are best built on.

    Don’t worry, Jesus is coming.

  157. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    I would trade $1 million for the fairness of every umpire in MLB. If we have to pay them to be fair, then so be it.

  158. CR9 September 14th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    That’s $1 million per umpire. So, an extra $120 million or so a year just for fairness. A steep price to pay, but worth it.

  159. The Genius Maker September 14th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Trisha, I hear what you are saying and of course, we could be wrong just because we said it in advance. In fact, I said what was Joe doing pitching Gaudin and even though it was an adventure, he pitched a scoreless inning so the outcome was good.

    However, I do look at the big picture and I do look at all the permutations and do not look at the one situation in a vacuum. I am a COO of a company and I probably have better reasoning ability than Joe Girardi and while I got injured and never made the majors, I was a Div I catcher and was drafted. Joe has more information at his disposal than I do, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have valid points or I haven’t though through the situation…of course it also doesn’t mean I am right either…Once Matsui and Damon were gone I was in favor of the signing of Nick Johnson :)

  160. CB September 14th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    “Why are we talking about batting average, it is meaningless by itself, you need guys with better OPS, forget batting average.”

    This is simply not true. The word meaningless get thrown around an absurd amount when discussing baseball.

    Take a look at run expectancy matrices and the way the expected run values for walks and singles diverges when there are men on base and then reconsider “meaningless.”

    In context, batting average matters. By itself it is inadequate, but in context it can mean a great deal.

  161. Bret The Hitman September 14th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Posada, Jeter and Bernie had a nice ride.

  162. RayVT September 14th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Thanks Kate! Yes I agree Trisha, 3 sides to everything.

    That said, with Joe G getting testy with the press means he is 2nd guessing himself IMO. When I get testy, it is usually when I’m wrong & have no defense. When I am confident there is no need to get testy. Joe G isn’t a macho guy, he is intelligent and capable. He knows he blew some things ove the last couple of weeks & his hindsight makes him uncomfortable.

  163. SAS September 14th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    :arrow: Swisher still hurting, still limited

  164. Wave Your Hat September 14th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    CB-

    I’d move Granderson over Gardner, even paying a big chunk of Granderson’s salary. I don’t like Granderson’s platoon splits, plus he isn’t cheap and is older.

    Rasmus is young and has upside. He didn’t have bad platoon splits in the minors, so I don’t think he is a bad risk platoon-wise going forward.

    Matt Kemp would be fine. Ryan Braun, Justin Upton, Carlos Gonzalez. Aim high. If the Yanks were willing to put Hughes and Granderson in a deal, that ought to fetch something.

    And, I wouldn’t be afraid to give up more in a deal than we get back, as long as we get back what we need. That’s an advantage in dealing from a position of strength, which the Yanks have.

  165. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    “When all is said is done, the Yankees will either be 28 time World Champions or will not be solely because of the umpires. So bashing Girardi or Jeter, Grandy, Alex, or any Yankee is pointless”

    And though that may sound like an over-the-top statement, I definitely agree with you in theory. The same posters who criticize Girardi are willing to give the umpires a bye because “that’s the way it is.”

    Umpires are unequivocally the tenth player in the game and that is just not right. I don’t think of it as a wholly anti-Yankee bias. I’ve seen them stink to high heavens in games in which the Yankees are not participants.

    If posters care about truth and accuracy in the way things are done, they should darned well be concerned about bad umpiring because those bad calls can and do contribute to teams winning and/or losing games they might not have otherwise won or lost.

    It is a HUGE problem, it is the elephant in the room. Apparently some people have an easier time overlooking elephants than others do…

  166. RayVT September 14th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    As far as putting Cano 2nd in lineup because you have a terrific LHP in Price on the mound & no Swish or Gardner to put there isn’t really acceptable. Cano is a LHP who is struggling a bit so why is he better at 2 hole? I would have hit Kearns, Golson or Granderson there before Cano.

  167. SJ44 September 14th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Good lord, the umpire stuff is beyond stupid.

  168. MG September 14th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    ‘managers are looking 20 plays down the road’.

    That is the most ridiculous statement about baseball I’ve ever read, period. Does that mean you call for a bunt in a tie game with a 2-0 count and a guy capable of hitting one out because you are looking at what could happen in 5 innings?

    Baseball is, by its nature, a game based on strategy for a specific situation. It has nothing to do with relief pitchers ‘not being available’, it has everything to do with trying to make the most out of an opportunity to score runs. You make that decision based on the skills of the batter (or available pinch hitters), not on what could happen later in the game.

    I’ve never been a big Girardi fan but recognize he’s done a pretty good job with the Yankees. I’ve grown accustomed to his overmanaging the bullpen and his Tony LaRussa imitation. In the last week, though, he has been really inconsistent with his decisions and doesn’t really seem to care about whether the Yankees finish 1st or 2nd in the AL East. I can accept that but would hate to see them get knocked out of the playoffs because they can’t beat the Twinkies in Minnesota in the ALDS.

  169. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    “That said, with Joe G getting testy with the press means he is 2nd guessing himself IMO. When I get testy, it is usually when I’m wrong & have no defense. When I am confident there is no need to get testy. Joe G isn’t a macho guy, he is intelligent and capable. He knows he blew some things ove the last couple of weeks & his hindsight makes him uncomfortable.”

    Ray, that’s interesting because the only time I get testy is when I am sure of myself and I still have to keep answering over and over to harping and/or insecure individuals. Or I get testy when I am overtired.

    Since Joe G isn’t a macho guy, with that I agree, I don’t see him as someone who gets defensive to protect mistakes. He’s Italian and he’s an emotional Italian (not sure if there are any who are not emotional when it comes right down to it!). Being Italian I understand Italian. I think he is under a ton of pressure as manager of the Yankees and trying to pull together a team that is obviously struggling and answering to a “probing” media day after day would eventually get to anyone – especially if your team hasn’t been winning.

    I call it Human Nature 101.

  170. trisha - true pinstriped blue September 14th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    “That is the most ridiculous statement about baseball I’ve ever read, period.”

    Well that makes you lucky since everything else you read should be a veritable giggle.

    Have a good day!

    :)

  171. deputy dawg September 14th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    I can put up with the “Girardi can do no wrong” BS, but to blame a whole seasons success or failure on the umpires casts doubt on a persons sanity.

  172. m September 14th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Why did Posada try to steal? That’s worse than Gardner going.

  173. BIG AL September 14th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    SJ44 September 14th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
    You can be a good manager and have a bad week.

    Just like good players have bad weeks.

    ****************************************************

    I agree with your entire post. It appears there are 2 bloggers that take up the most time, one that screams like hell over any setback, and the other that appears to have their head in the sand, and can’t see what is happening.

    No, the Yankees will not win every game, and yes they are currently playing poor baseball.

    To me it makes no sense to rest a well rested A-Rod, while allowing Cano, who appears to desparately need rest, to play every day.

    Nor does it make sense to rest the best bullpen pitchers with the game, and 1st place on the line.

    It’s not Girardi bashing to question the numerous poor decisions he’s made during this extended losing streak.

    Those of you that keep saying you’re willing to wait and see, are not seeing what’s right in front of you day after day. You are the fans out of touch with reality.

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