Regular lineup behind Hughes
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Sep 26, 2010 
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“LGY, I already said what the downside is. It makes them look panicky.”
What is the downside of making them look panicky?
“Phil hasn’t had his regular between start preparation.”
How do you know this?
I am shocked no one needs a day off today? I guess today won’t be treated like a spring training game.
“What is the downside of making them look panicky?
Joel Sherman and Wally Matthews will say mean things about them
maybe the inmates are no longer running the asylum??
This is rich. No matter what they do, the Yankees have no idea what they’re doing. They should pitch Hughes but they shouldn’t pitch Hughes. They want to win but they don’t want to win. If Hughes pitches well it’s in spite of the Yankees. If Hughes pitches poorly it’s because of the Yankees. The Yankees have screwed up everything from the first day of the season and this is just one more screw up. If they win the world series it will have nothing to do with Girardi. If they lose it’s all Girardi’s fault. Does that just about cover it?
************************
Who cares that the Rays lost? There is still no way the Yankees can take the division even if they win tonight. That would put the Yankees 1/2 game out with 7 left to play. 1/2’s bigger than 7 right? It isn’t?
Oh, my bad.
But anyway we all know they don’t want to win the division, right blue crew, so they will clinch and then hold a secret clubhouse meeting where the Yanks agree to throw the rest of their games.
If by some bad fate they win the division it will be in spite of Girardi. If they lose it it will be because of Girardi. Does that just about cover it?
Unfortunately, Girardi has backed himself into a corner. The last minute decision to pitch Hughes afterall makes him look bad. It smells of panic, and gives merit to the criticism that he has not been managing to win. However, winning tonight is too important to the team’s playoff chances, and I give him credit for putting the team ahead of his own ego and image.
“Rays & Twins both lose, now it’s anyone game!”
No, no, no Big Al. The intelligencia of this forum have already decided the Yankees are NOT playing for the division, do NOT really want to win, and will be out of the postseason in the first round.
So what’s the game plan against Dice k? Take a ton of pitches or go after him early?
I would love to be fly on the wall in that clubhouse today.
Just checking in. TB lost. That’s good news. Moving Hughes up is a panic move. But there’s no downside.
May we get to Matsuzaka today. Patience!!!
LGY, the downside to me also is that I do not like how they’ve handled his ILs. It should not have come down to the last week – they should have skipped him before the end of the season. Now they made a decision – only 2 days ago. Even if they thought Andy would pitch well, it’s not like they could guarantee we’d win – and Nova/Lester was a mismatch on paper. Therefore, when they made the decision, they could not have assumed they’d win 1 or 2 games.
How do I know that he hasn’t had regular preparation? I don’t know when his bullpen would have been for today’s game, but his pen for Wednesday would have probably been today. So, I’m assuming his regular preparation was interrupted.
They made the decision and it’s done. I hope it works out.
Unfortunately, Girardi has backed himself into a corner. The last minute decision to pitch Hughes afterall makes him look bad. It smells of panic, and gives merit to the criticism that he has not been managing to win. However, winning tonight is too important to the team’s playoff chances, and I give him credit for putting the team ahead of his own ego and image.
___
you think it is girardi’s idea to skip hughes and rest the starters?
You think Girardi would rather deal with losing so he can rest his starters?
give me a break.. that logic makes no sense.
Dice-K has given up 4+ runs in each of his last 8 starts, and 9 of his last 10.
“LGY, the downside to me also is that I do not like how they’ve handled his ILs.”
————————————-
So the downside is that they look panicky and you don’t like how they’ve handled his ILs?
What is the downside of “looking” panicky? What is the problem with looking panicky?
They have handled his innings in a way in which that he has had a great first season as a starter, made the ASG, and is lining up to start in the postseason.
What is negative tangible effect of the way in which they have handled his innings?
Good. Bout freaking time they put the hammer down and end this madness.
WCYF – Try reading comprehension. I did not give any political views. I gave a view on Yankees fans – merely using Democrats as a comparison.
“that logic makes no sense.”
That’s because it’s not logic. Betsy has vascillated between saying it was Girardi’s decision, Eiland’s decision, Cashman’s decision, it was Girardi’s decision with Cashman supporting it. The truth of the matter is she doesn’t have a clue whose decision it was.
Fine, forget the downside. I don’t like the decision for all the reasons I gave you. I’ll say it again – they should have had his last skip weeks ago, not now, not right before the playoffs. We don’t generally agree on Phil period, lol, so no big deal.
No matter the outcome tonight the decision to change course and throw Hughes is the right one. You have to give yourselves the best chance to win this game because winning it essentially seals it for a playoff spot….a win tonight means the Yankees would have to lose the rest and Boston would have to win the rest…not likely. Plus I didn’t like Hughes pitching at Toronto for his last tune up before the playoffs…they have by far been the worst matchup for him this season.
Trisha, that is a blatant lie. I have never ONCE said Phil’s IL were either a Joe thing, a Cash thing or an Eiland thing. I have always said they all make the decision together. You can’t handle anyone criticizing the Yankees at all. Deal with it.
How about this? Hughes begged to go today, and Girardi couldn’t tell the kid ‘no’?
Just kidding. Let’s knock 2 off the magic number.
The disappointment if the Yankees don’t win tonight will be massive.
how can the decision to pitch Hughes tonight be considered panic? It’s the right baseball move, period. Announcing Moseley as the starter earlier in the week was a stupid baseball move that has been corrected.
They wouldn’t pitch Hughes if he wasn’t ready and, as a competitor, he’s going to be absolutely ready to pitch a good game tonight on his regular rest. The right baseball move is to play the ‘A’ lineup every game until they clinch a playoff spot, I have no idea what they’ve been doing the past couple of weeks trying to give players rest in the middle of a pennant race.
Yes, it will be disappointing. But not any more disappointing than the last 3 weeks.
“What is the downside of “looking” panicky? What is the problem with looking panicky?”
Just like Joe’s panic appeared to rub off on Rob Thompson, maybe the team will start to panic if they start Hughes tonight, signaling that it is an important game to win, otherwise they would have stuck to their initial plan to rest him? It might cause the rest of the team to get tight.
Also if it doesn’t work out, where do they go from there? Burnett, Vazquez the next 2 nights. Would they then panic and push CC to Wednesday if they lose the first 2 in TOR?
Panic moves sent wrong messages to teams… especially when they have been talking/managing as if they already have a playoff spot locked up. Cashman/Eliand already talking playoff roster, etc. So if they were so confident in their position…. what changed the last 2 days? Did they really base their decision around a less than 100% Andy winning the first night?
It is the right move to start Hughes, but they’ve backed themselves in a corner now and are basically saying they overestimated their position. Though to be fair, I don’t think they thought the team would play this poorly, this late in the year.
Betsy – Dont know if you saw my earlier note…… Told ya so!
MG, well I certainly agree with your last comment……………..makes Joe look bad and it doesn’t make Cash look so great either.
I assume there are multiple people involved in making the decisions about what to do with Hughes and when, primarily Girardi, Eiland and Cashman.
As far as resting position players, I would assume that is Girardi’s call.
Tampa lost today so in addition to pretty much sealing a playoff spot a win would bring the yanks back within a half game for the division…
CR, you did say that, lol. I wish you weren’t right (even though the original decision was wrong), but here we are.
the next right move is to pitch CC in turn on Tuesday unless they clinch before then, enough of this crap about resting players and skipping turns. Rest should be reserved until the finish line is reached, just ask Willie Shoemaker about standing up too soon at the Kentucky Derby with Gallant Man (most of you won’t get this but it’s one of the most famous events ever in horse racing).
Who cares if they look “panicky”. It’s better than looking dumb which is what they were looking by starting Mosely against the team that’s chasing them with a week left in the season.
They need a win tonight and that’s the bottom line. Phil gives them their best shot to do that. There’s no guarantee they’re winning anything up in Toronto and the White Sox are burnt toast.
Nobody wants to limp into Fenway with the season on the line.
It’s a panic move because they’re reversing a previous decision to adjust his innings.
It’s the right move, but it’s a panic move. Is Hughes still underrated after a loss?
Betsy I apologize. It was just RSM who talked about Girardi panicking.
*Undefeated
who do they look ‘panicky’ to, the Sox? the umpires? the ghosts at the old Stadium?
Nothing else really matters, worrying fans aren’t part of the outcome of a baseball game.
Question -
If the magic number is 1 going into Thursday, and Boston loses on Thursday (which is an off-day for us)…. when does the team celebrate?
Re-post:
As long as it helps them win, does it really matter how it makes them look? Better to go all out to get the win tonight than waiting until next weekend in Boston. Because if it’s panic now, what kind scary mess would it be by then? And when have the Yankees ever been accused of making decisions based on anything other than their perceived best interests, with little regard for media/public perception? It should never have come to this, but thank goodness they aren’t too stubborn to change course when circumstances obviously warrant it. Can’t wait to see this game now.
———————-
As to the disappointment if they lose anyway, at least the Yankees will have done everything they could to win, including starting their best available pitcher when they had the chance.
MG – Even though I wholeheartedly disagree with the Yankees looking “panicky”….
they look “panicky” to the media – the mongering media that must run with a story regardless of facts.
trisha -
What has happened to you lately? OMG, this is not you.
Your just being facetious – right?
Panic move? Who cares. Play to win, not back in.
If they are patient with dicebb and the strike zone is reasonable they should be successful.
It would never happen but I would love to see the sox skip dicey and go with clay laptops. Let the two young guns duke it out.
MG
I usually agree, but the Yankees have for all intesives purposes clinched a spot for some time now. They could lose tonight and tomorrow and next day and still be favorites to get in.
And by the way, if the Yankees had won the first or second game against the Sux, you can bet Hughes wouldnt be pitching tonight. So it wasn’t the “wrong” decision to skip him when they made that decision. Teams do this stuff as needed. Just like when Francona announced that Bucholz would pitch only if the Sux had won the game the day before. They didn’t, he didn’t. It’s called making adjustments as you go along.
Tar – It’s “for all intents and purposes”
Ya getting ready for the Heels?
MG, I got that – and that’s a great analogy, lol
BumKnee
You have decided to use that handle again. How’s Granderson been treating you lately?
“trisha -
What has happened to you lately? OMG, this is not you.
Your just being facetious – right?”
About which thing?
Trish, no problem!
BumKnee -
Who the hell are you to tell someone to shut up and go sit down. I’ll put money on Betsy knowing and caring more about the Yankees than a little tweet like you.
Grow up!
lgy. where did pat m and those other dudes go. don’t see them here much anymore. green beret 7 dude used to be here all the time.
Oooh, look who’s calling the kettle black. Wow, I’m so injured by your remarks because I truly care what you say, BumBrain.
LGY, but reasonable people can agree to disagree.
———————————-
Except Betsy simply can be persuaded by reasons instead harping on perceptions such ‘panicky’.
Betsy fail to see the most important equation of it all in this which is it’s the RIGHT decision by whatever narratives.
what a massive disappointment to humanity.
Big Al, thanks, but I can handle him; he’s not even worth wasting your breath on
“Just like Joe’s panic appeared to rub off on Rob Thompson, maybe the team will start to panic if they start Hughes tonight, signaling that it is an important game to win, otherwise they would have stuck to their initial plan to rest him? It might cause the rest of the team to get tight.”
————————–
Rob Thompson has been too aggressive all year in strange situations so I don’t buy that Girardi rubbed off on him at all. It was not surprising at all Thompson sent him yesterday given his record so far this season.
If this team gets tight because they are putting a 17 game winner on the mound tonight, then they have MUCH bigger problems than this game. If anything the team will be happy they are putting Hughes out there to win.
These guys are professional baseball players and some of the most competitive people in the world. They don’t like losing and pitching Hughes tonight makes it more likely they will win. That’s all that matters. The rest of the narrative that these uber-competitive professionals will get tight or nervous now is complete BS.
CR9
Actually, I thought I typed that. I guess it didn’t translate to my fingers. Plenty of time for the Heels, now is Yankee time.
“And by the way, if the Yankees had won the first or second game against the Sux, you can bet Hughes wouldnt be pitching tonight. So it wasn’t the “wrong” decision to skip him when they made that decision”
Bingo.
The organization thought they would win one of the first 2 against the Sux. When they didn’t, things changed.
This is a huge game considering it is a 2-game swing. No brainer to start Hughes.
“lgy. where did pat m and those other dudes go. don’t see them here much anymore. green beret 7 dude used to be here all the time.”
steve – green beret 7 and Pat M, on top of being two of the more knowledgeable posters here, are also two who have a hard time tolerating stupidity and whining, the two hallmarks of the majority of posters who show up during game times. I have to believe that has kept them from wanting to be around.
If you have an ounce of positivity in your bones, what would be the plus to coming to a forum under the current circumstances, when posters have already draped their houses in black because the Yankees had the audacity not to clinch yet. (Don’t be fooled by the fact that both CC and Andy’s outings moved us a little further away and we would have clinched already had both won. This is all about hating on Girardi.)
Tar – lol, i guess now is Yankee time! I hope you know I wasnt being the grammar police…..if there were blog police, Id be in blog prison
The one other thing that makes me chuckle is “Could Care Less.” It’s “Could not care less”
The question is why they automatically assumed they were going to win 1 of the first 2 games? Andy is just coming back from injury and Nova/Lester was a tough matchup. If it was all about the results of these two games, then Joe was BSing us about Phil being skipped this game due to innings limits.
My advice:
Brace yourselves for the post game hysteria following tonight’s loss to the R*d S*x …
How about calling it intelligent strategy rather than panic? Do you really believe the Yankees don’t think they can clinch a playoff berth? How about looking at it this way. The sooner they clinch, they sooner they can set up the way they want and need to.
Girardi and company had no way of deciding about tonight until they had a chance to evaluate after last night. If the Yankees won yesterday, I believe Hughes wouldn’t be pitching tonight.
Intelligent organizations evaluate and re-evaluate as necessary.
I will say again – the only panic I’ve seen around here has been on the part of those whose lives are defined by panic.
It does matter that this looks like a panic move, since the reversal of this decision definitely gives validity to the impression that Girardi took his pedal off the gas too soon. That makes him look bad to the press (which does matter in NY), to the ownership (who will decide if he has a job next season), and to his players (whom he cannot effectively manage without his respect).
It’s the right decision, and I am glad he had the kudos to make it despite it making him look bad. Bottom line is, as long as they make the playoffs this will all be forgotten.
Panic move? Starting a pitcher on a day that he would normally be pitching, but had been scheduled to be skipped, then they changed their mind, is now a panic move?
I don’t see how. A panic move would be having CC starting on short rest.
While I think this is a move in part driven by looking at the match up, and looking to have a higher chance at a win, I don’t see how this is based on panic. Looking to move the magic number lower sooner is smart. A win tonight means one more win for the Yanks, or one more loss for the RS, and they are in.
“The question is why they automatically assumed they were going to win 1 of the first 2 games?”
I think that was an extremely safe assumption. CC has a tremendous home record and was pitching against an extremely erratic Beckett. That one seemed like a shoe in. Because Andy’s first outing back was so good, they probably figured his second would be also.
If you checked out the oddsmakers on those two games, I bet certainly CC’s was considered money in the bank.
I think m’s posts on this thread are spot on.
Tar, I know the Yankees aren’t missing the playoffs even if they lose tonight but this game of resting regulars and skipping turns before clinching is unprecedented in my memory and just makes no sense. If the team continued to win with these moves it would be fine but after the roadtrip it stopped making any sense. Play the regulars every day, clinch a spot, and rest whoever you need to in order to have everyone ready and health for the playoffs. I can’t remember another manager walking the kind of tightrope that Girardi has for the past few weeks.
trisha – true pinstriped blue September 26th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Don’t be fooled by the fact that both CC and Andy’s outings moved us a little further away and we would have clinched already had both won. This is all about hating on Girardi.
——————————————————————————
That is so far from the truth for some of us it boggles the imagination.
“While I think this is a move in part driven by looking at the match up, and looking to have a higher chance at a win, I don’t see how this is based on panic. Looking to move the magic number lower sooner is smart. A win tonight means one more win for the Yanks, or one more loss for the RS, and they are in.”
Yogi, I think a number of us agree with your take. However I will say this. For any who see it as a panic move, pundits included, BFD. Let them see it any way they want.
Again, for me smart money says that Moseley gets the start if the Yanks win 1 or 2 against the Sux. No way to make an announcement about it until the results of both games are in.
Or here’s a better one. Girardi addressing the press: If we lose both games, Hughes gets the start. Otherwise, Moseley gets the start.
“That is so far from the truth for some of us it boggles the imagination.”
Which is a good thing since I didn’t say it applied to the whole free world, unless you are someone who complains here all the time and says stupid things. Feel free to put yourself in whatever camp you feel you belong. Okay now?
“It’s a panic move because they’re reversing a previous decision to adjust his innings.”
mel, by pitching him tonight how does that reverse anything except the timing?
The hysteria in this blog lately is over whelming. Even if they lost tonight, if they take 2 of 3 from the Jays (and the pitching matchups are definitely in their favor), the Sox only need to lose 1 of 4 in Chicago (which they will) and it’s over. Everyone needs to settle down – the playoffs are starting soon. Then it will be time to worry!
JeffNC, welcome to the asylum. If this isn’t your first time here you probably know that hysteria is a game-thread hallmark for a lot of the posters here. Unfortunately hysteria has a tendency to drown out optimism, so a lot of the more upbeat posters head for the hill.
Trisha – thanks for the welcome. I am a long time lurker, first time poster. The sky is falling stuff has been killing me. I am as concerned as the next person, but about making a run thru the playoffs, not about actually making the playoffs, which some people actually seem to be concerned about. Oh well, I guess we wouldn’t be fans without some irrational thinking!
JeffNC, this is actually a more comfortable place for knee jerkers, panickers, and negative nellies, because they tend to predominate during games. I think it has gotten so bad that a lot of the former regulars are nowhere to be seen. It isn’t a new phenomenon here. Last season was more of the same. It got so oppressive during postseason gamethreads that another poster and I actually set up our own forum and spent our time there during games. We have offered it as a safe haven for other posters who felt the need to escape the bridge jumping that is automatic the minute the Yankees make a misstep. I will offer your the same opportunity if you would want to take it. You would need to email Chad and ask him to forward your email to me and I would give you further information. I don’t put my email address on the forum.
Anyway, glad to have you here!
Trisha
Thanks, I may take you up on that….
trisha -
Would I be welcome at your site?
JeffNC -
What area in NC are you in? I’m just south of Winston-salem myself.
Big AL – absolutely!
Big Al – I am in Raleigh, originally from CT.